Why We Need to Change

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Why We Need to Change

Over the past couple of years, we have built a healthy, vibrant and influential community which recognises the need to counter the corporate propaganda spouted by the mainstream media on behalf of the football authorities.

The media have, not entirely but in the main, been hostage to the patronage of those in charge of the club/media links, and to the narrow demographic of their readership. Despite a continuing rejection of the media’s position by that readership (in terms of year on year slump in sales) there is an obstinate refusal to see what is by now inevitable – the death of the print media. The lamb metaphor in fact ironically moving to the slaughter.

The football authorities in Scotland, once the country that gave the world the beautiful game, are rigid with fear that their own world will fall apart – because they are wedded to the idea that only one football match actually matters. To that end they will do whatever it takes to ensure that it continues. They have long since dispensed with the notion that football is an interdependent industry, and incredibly, even those who are not participants in that match follow like sheep towards the abattoir.

The argument is no longer that one club cheated and got away with it. The debate that we need to have is one about what is paramount in the eyes of the clubs and the media . Is it the inegrity of sporting endeavour, or box-office?

For out part, independent sites like this have accelerated the print media’s demise, and there have been temporary successes in persuading the clubs to uphold the spirit of sport. However our role has up to now been to cast a spotlight on the inaccuracies, inconsistencies and downright lies that routinely pass for news. News that is imagined up by PR agencies and dutifully copied by the lazy pretend-journalists who betray no thought whatsoever during the process.

Despite our successes, it really is not enough. We have the means at our disposal to do more, but do more we need to change ourselves, because the authorities sure as hell aren’t gonna.

We need to provide meaningful insight into the game that removes the Old Firm prism from the light path. We need to provide news that has covered all of the angles. We need to entertain, inform and energise fans of sport and all clubs.

We need to do that from a wholly independent perspective. None of this refusing to tell the truth about club allegiances. There is no reason why intelligent men and women can’t be objective in spite of their own allegiances (although the corollary absolutely holds true).  Our experience of the MSM in this country is that the lack of arms-length principles in the media has corrupted it to such an extent that they barely recognise truth and objectivity. We need to be firm on those arms-length principles.

In order to do that we have put together a plan (with enough room to manoeuvre if required) as follows;

We will rebrand and re-launch as the Independent Sports Monitor. We have acquired the domains isMonitor.co.uk and IndependentSportsMonitor.co.uk, and those will be the main urls after the re-launch, hopefully later in the summer.

The change in name reflects the reality of our current debate which is not always confined to Scotland or football. It will also give us the option in future of applying the success of our model to other sports and jurisdictions through partner sites and blogs. This should also help in our efforts to raise funds in the future. However any expansion outwith the domain of Scottish football is some time away, and will depend on the success we have with the core model.

Our mission statement will be;

  1. ISM will seek to build a community of sports fans whose overarching aim is the integrity of competition in the sport.
  2. ISM will, without favour, seek to find objective truths on the conduct and administration of sport. We will avoid building relationships with individuals or organisations which would bring us into conflict with that.
  3. ISM will provide a platform for the views of ALL fans, and guarantee that those views will be heard in a mutually respectful environment.
  4. ISM will also endeavour to inform and entertain members on a wide range of topics related to our shared love of sport.
  5. ISM will seek to represent the views of sports fans to sporting authorities and hold the authorities to account.

We have estimated our (modest) costs to expand our role as per recent discussions. The expanded role will take the form of a new Internet Radio Channel where we hope to provide 24/7 content by the end of the year. It will also see a greater news role  where we will engage directly with clubs and authorities to seek answers to our questions directly.  And we will seek to contact the best fan sites across Scotland with a view to showcasing their content.

We have identified individuals who we want to work (initially on a part time basis) towards our objectives, we have identified premises where we want to conduct our business, and we hope to move into those premises during this summer.

To finance these plans there are a couple of stages;

  1. Initially (as soon as possible) we need to pay accommodation and hosting costs for the first year. To do so,  we hope to appeal to the community itself. Our aim is to raise around £5000 by the end of August.
  2. There are salary costs (around £15,000) attached to our first year plan, but these have been underwritten by Big Pink, and equipment costs (est. £3000). These will be reimbursed if the advertising campaign we recently started bears any fruit (we will not know about that for a few months).
  3. It will not be too discouraging if we make losses in the first couple of years, so if necessary we will seek crowd-funding to finance our plans if the resources of the community itself prove inadequate to smooth a path to break-even point.

Our first year may be a perilous hand-to-mouth existence, but I am certain the journey will be an exciting and enjoyable one. We will also need to search our community resources for contacts at clubs; players, officials, ex-players, local journalists etc. Please get in touch if you have any in at your club.

We also hope to tap into the expertise of our community for advice, comment and analysis of developments, and we will be looking for any aspiring presenters, journalists, sound and video editors, graphic designers (and lots of others) to help us find our feet. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully accepted.

We mustn’t lose sight of why we are doing this. It is because we love our sport, because we want to be able to continue to call it that, and because the disconnect we find in Scottish football, that of the conflicting interests of the fans and the money men, will never be addressed as long as the fans are hopelessly split.

The ultimate goal is to allow sport – not our individual clubs – to triumph over the greed and corporate troglodyte-ism of those people who run it. I am confident that we as a community desperately want to be able to make a difference. That is why I am confident we can achieve our aim of becoming a significant player in the game.

 

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,978 Comments so far

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John ClarkPosted on11:22 am - Aug 21, 2015


easyJambo says:
Member: (732 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 10:55 am
‘..Robbie Neilson on possible title challenge: if you have a car worth 10k and someone has one worth 200k, who’s going to win race? ‘
__________
How does horse-racing as a sport/business work?-Handicapping?
Could that be part of the answer to the financial imbalance between our clubs both domestically and in European competitions?

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Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on11:23 am - Aug 21, 2015


Cluster One says:
Member: (265 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 7:25 am

motor red says:
Member: (28 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 6:55 am…………explode.
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They never knock it back,the £250,000

=======================

A comment was quite rightly removed by mods yesterday because it was little more than childish trolling.

IMO your baiting falls into exactly the same category and should simply be removed.

PS – you used the same bait in your rather snide comments yesterday, time for fresh bait, surely this is getting a bit whiffy?

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FinlochPosted on11:29 am - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (210 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 10:17 am
…..
So, as much as i can understand why people may feel it is an unfair playing field can I suggest two things. First, look to yourself and your club for solutions before looking anywhere else. Second, I really do know where you are coming from. The club I support has exactly the same issues. We will not be competing in the final few stages of the CL any time soon. It doesn’t mean the fans can’t go and have great European nights supporting them.
……………………………………………………………….

I think that what you say makes sense.
But don’t think the challenge you make is achievable.

The problem we face as an alliance of fans is that our clubs individually cannot address the very real changes that the rapid and recent globali$ation of Football have enforced upon us.
Indeed initial attempts by some to keep up by reckless spending killed one of our members and put many others into intensive care.

This fast process driven by TV revenues has changed the game for ever and left us with issues that our administrators did not see coming and which our clubs have no individual answers for now.

In particular our 2 traditionally biggest clubs with the biggest crowds, biggest aspirations, revenues and fan group polarisation have found themselves in an unfortunate position that without something changing they will be managing a decline in the Scottish football backwater and at the same time consigning their smaller and poorer rivals to crumbs.

A double negative impact that will only get worse -and a problem for which the return of the blue team is irrelevant.

The economic truth is that no matter how ambitious our smaller city based community clubs in our premiership are they will never get 50,000 at home matches.
So building a bigger park like wee Fergus did is not the solution for able business managers all round the country.

This is not a uniquely Scottish problem and the solution will see the bigger clubs continuing to get bigger and creating their own futures driven by and modelled on money.

If we had real leadership and vision at Hampden and in UEFA its the kind of thing we’d expect them to be addressing.

Instead of managing our decline.

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motor redPosted on11:33 am - Aug 21, 2015


dear matty what are you on about? us v them? the authorities?or should i wear a celtic scarf as i post?what do i do, help! i posted a genuine heartfelt response if you don’t like it save me your condescending nonsense. if you find my post ill thought out ,then your very very wrong, uneducated perhaps. i have much admiration for many of your posts and big pinks.so lighten up man am sure big pink can speak for himself. thank you for removing clusters comment.

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Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on11:38 am - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (210 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 10:17 am

I have said this before, and derided for it. I will say it again, and no doubt be derided for it again.

Celtic are bigger in financial terms than other Scottish football clubs because more people go to Celtic games, more people buy season tickets and more people buy official club merchandise. This has the knock on effect of getting better sponsorship deals etc.

If other clubs want to get closer in financial terms then the first place they should look at is themselves…….

================================

From what I can see its not unusual for fans of big clubs to have a sort of self congratulatory attitude as if its their personal loyalty and commitment that earns the success on the field. Nonsense really.

The problem with this is that the bigger clubs are richer because they have more fans but they also have more fans because they are richer (and therefore win more trophies, sign higher profile players and so on).

So you say your club is successful because so many fans “invest” (lol) in the club. I say so many fans invest in the club because it is successful.

Its a sort of chick and egg situation.

To suggest its simply the fault or a problem for all the other teams misses the point that the playing field is not level and tilts too much in favour of already big clubs and so ensures they only get bigger.

While the rest are slowly crushed into non existence.

What will the big teams do when they play in leagues where all their competitors are part time clubs watched by 1000 fans?

Why should fans of smaller clubs keeping spending their money on their clubs when its such a drop in the ocean compared to the TV money, Euro prize money and so on? Its wasted and only the hard core fans remain following these clubs now.

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Cygnus X2

Cygnus X2Posted on12:01 pm - Aug 21, 2015


I am not a fan of the franchise system employed in American sport, but it does have a few clear advantages.

In the US sports franchises are generally restricted from advertising or marketing outside of a defined catchment area. This stops them ‘poaching’ fans from other clubs.

Also, the draft system guarantees that less successful clubs get access to the most promising young players.

Finally, there are generally caps in place to ensure some level of consistency in payment of players.

I’ve always found it funny that the sports environment in the most capitalist country in the world employs measures which are essentially socialist in nature where wealth and talent is redistributed and equality is enforced. I think most Americans would be appalled if you described their sport in those terms.

However, the US sports codes have understood for a long time that a healthy sport requires healthy competition and that the collective wellbeing of the whole sport is more important than the success of individual clubs.

As a fan of a smaller club in Scotland (albeit one that has averaged 5 goals per game in our unbeaten start to the season), I would welcome some structured redistribution to help make the whole of the Scottish game more popular.

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Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on12:05 pm - Aug 21, 2015


motor red says:
Member: (30 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 11:33 am

dear matty what are you on about? ….

==========

Fair enough motor, I think I may have confused sentiments of a few different posters.

Apologies I had the wrong end of the stick.

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CliffHangerPosted on12:41 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Haven’t posted in very long time but have lurked everyday as this is the site to go to for intelligent rational and civilised debate.

However I am at the stage of loosing faith that anything can be done to turn the tide

Im lucky that as a teenager in the 80’s I probably witnessed our last golden age

Remember when you didn’t know the names of any chairmen, hadn’t heard of holding companies and never knew there was prize money

Im scunnered by all of the following but not limited too:

that despite all the mismanagement we still have the same muppets running our game

there has been no punishment or apology from the club that now our MSM want us to celebrate being back

that one team is being allowed to live beyond its means so it can lord it over us diddies like its predecessor

the MSM and pundits cannot stand up and be honest

that our champions (and those of Sweden) have to scrap there way to reach the group stages of the champions league to meet teams that finished fourth

getting to the group stages is now celebrated in financial terms rather than any sporting context

we are seen as a backwater when compared to the obscenity that is the English Premier League

that despite the money being thrown at the English and European game the biggest clubs are still running at barely believable levels of debt

we now have live coverage of a thing called transfer deadline day

the biggest game in the world is now the English Championship play off final

So bitter and twisted am I in my middle age that I am looking forward to when the bubbles start to burst which is sad as my mid-life crisis had been planned to include a Harley Davidson and a Pole Dancer.

Off to watch some junior football this weekend so not all bad

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motor redPosted on12:56 pm - Aug 21, 2015


homunculus”If other clubs want to get closer in financial terms then the first place they should look at is themselves”… ”what! really! some people just dont get it, when i was a lad a tiny wee lad,[intended] many kids were were fascinated by celtic and rangers with all there sectarian songs about an irish war and the religious divide in aberdeen. this appeal does not go unnoticed by young curious minds its almost a self perpetuating recruitment drive.

still to this day we have many buses filled with fans of the glasgow clubs making there way down to glasgow from aberdeen.now i dont entirely blame the clubs but the authorities have allowed this to go on for far to long.
i once came across a set of celtic fans before a game why weren’t the locals getting behind there team?, ask the sfa i said.

make no mistake the religious divide and history of those clubs has been very detrimental to other towns/clubs throughout scotland and remains so.

asking clubs to look at themselves to try and create a bigger challenge is a bit rich when you consider the sectarian appeal and the cheating[[rankers] that almost killed a few clubs in scotland

thank goodness for people like j clark and one or two others that can see the bigger picture.
.

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motor redPosted on1:00 pm - Aug 21, 2015


no harm done matty. your humilty is to be admired and i must say its something that i find quite refreshing on this site. i have certainly walked a bit of tightrope at times,so any celtic fans looking in, am looking for justice as much as you,though ave never understood why your club let those titles won by the cheats slide,why?.anyway hope am humble enough to admit to any short comings in future. good on yi loon as we say up here.

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SmugasPosted on1:23 pm - Aug 21, 2015


FWIW Motor Red I never once thought “the sectarian appeal” was enough of a reason to get on a bus for 4 hours to experience it. Once there, yes, the young mind can become immersed in it, no question. Disappointingly I know from experience (thankfully not mine) that there is a usually a parental/elder sibling input to this as well.

No, the initial draw, the catalyst for the ensuing reaction that I see is high exposure clubs (even holding companies 😈 ) winning stuff. And, like it or lump it, that’s where the money distribution comes in.

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theoldcoursePosted on1:38 pm - Aug 21, 2015


CliffHanger @ August 21, 2015 at 12:41 pm
——————————————-

I hear you brother. A kindred spirit no less. Perhaps its a shared yearning for gentlemen of a particular age.

I don’t like bikes so my mid life crisis involved a Ferrari that ended up costing me a packet. But she was worth it for a wee while. Mind you the pole dancers are almost as expensive now too. Wouldn’t get that in the R&A clubhouse though…

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MoreCelticParanoia

MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on1:48 pm - Aug 21, 2015


There’s Only One Willie Miller says:

August 20, 2015 at 9:12 pm

Blimey Big Pink, you are a sensitive chappy aren’t you.
______________________________________________________

How would you have reacted if someone posted “Well done Almaty”.

Would you have had a similar “sensitive” reaction or just accepted it passively? Is it one rule for Celtic and another rule for the other clubs?

__________________________________________
tayred says:

August 20, 2015 at 4:29 pm

I think you are being a bit harsh there. It depends what you would class as ambitious. I’m afraid finishing 3rd, or nowadays 2nd in the SPL is about as far as pure ambition could take any of these clubs given their resources.

tayred says:
August 21, 2015 at 8:44 am

Sorry, the tone of “bring Celtic down to others level” is dripping with that which we deride fans of the other side of Glasgows great divide
______________________________________________

So, on the one hand – Celtic are so far out of sight it’s unrealistic to expect any other club to compete for the title. Yet when someone makes the obvious observation that Celtic are at a higher level than these clubs it’s an outrage and affront? ❓

Which is it? I think your letting your partisanship get the better of you

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CliffHangerPosted on2:04 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Hey theoldcourse I did end up with a pair of wheels but unfortunately it’s a push bike and I’m the one wearing Lycra – nae bonny!

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tayred

tayredPosted on2:22 pm - Aug 21, 2015


MoreCelticParanoia says:
Member: (119 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 1:48 pm

So, on the one hand – Celtic are so far out of sight it’s unrealistic to expect any other club to compete for the title. Yet when someone makes the obvious observation that Celtic are at a higher level than these clubs it’s an outrage and affront? ❓
—————————————————————–

Jeesh, you have to be careful in this place 🙂
Partisanship – can someone hoping to speak for 40 clubs against 1 be partisan (which isn’t what this debate should be about [edited])? Perhaps. Anyway, back to your point. I think they are two entirely separate points.

The first highlights that thanks to the way UEFA et al have done their upmost to ruin competition in national leagues through their euro competitions, deeply flawed coefficient system and the allied fund distribution, that 2nd is for now as high as we can aim.

The second was a reaction to the oft found arrogance held by the “bigger” clubs supporters that they be “dragged back down” by the other clubs who continue to strive to do their best. It might be said these “bigger” clubs are in their oh so lofty and elevated position through the wilful destruction of the smaller clubs in a unabashed pursuit of every pound/euro they can lay their hands on. For clarity – I don’t think Mr Milne and AFC are completely free of that accusation either with their 11-1 vote for example – just in case you want to throw that partisanship accusation at me again.

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scottc

scottcPosted on2:39 pm - Aug 21, 2015


CliffHanger says:
Member: (7 comments)

So bitter and twisted am I in my middle age that I am looking forward to when the bubbles start to burst which is sad as my mid-life crisis had been planned to include a Harley Davidson and a Pole Dancer.

Simultaneously, I hope. 🙂

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Danish PastryPosted on2:47 pm - Aug 21, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1124 comments)
———-

Cheers John, a few observations from a non-expert. I installed it and checked it out, both via a steam box and on PC. Kodi in its basic form has various streaming apps. I can get Danish TV & Swedish and several others that aren’t geo-blocked in this region. Other apps have free-to-air channels from all around the world. Nothing illegal there, or any of the apps included in Kodi itself, and that can also be old movie archives, or various channel groups offered unblocked by foreign stations.

You can, though, add other apps that work on the software, the same as you can install 3rd party programmes on Windows. The point of the announcement from Kodi was to clarify their position, perhaps for legal reasons, with regard to these 3rd party apps.

If you install an app called Sportsdevil you’ll find sports streams, many very dodgy. In fact, some people with access to club TV have somehow created streams that end up on Sportsdevil. I’ve seen Celtic TV & Aberdeen’s in-house TV on there. Seems a lack of solidarity with your club to pirate the club’s own TV stream. And as Kodi now point out, watching a ‘free’ stream that is usually pay only, is a form of piracy. It’s up the individual conscience, I suppose. Some people who create this content probably see themselves as internet Robin Hoods. Then there’s the situation of ICT playing abroad in a match where there was no live TV or radio coverage (even though Jim Spence was out there). Streams from the local TV were on Kodi. I’m not sure what rules watching that broke. I suppose someone must have had the rights but it was all unavailable unless you were in the region.

Btw, I have a paid subscription from a provider of IPTV and also use a VPN (a bit of software that makes it look as though your computer is somewhere else than it is, in this case Glasgow) to get BBC Alba and Radio Scotland MW.

Not sure I’d install Kodi & add-on apps on your valuable Windows PC. I noticed some of the apps carried a lot of 3rd party junk and who knows what kind of malicious software is sewn into the apps? I uninstalled it from my Windows PC.

A good way to try it is a standalone stream box or install a version of Linux on your Windows PC. I’ve put a free version of Mageia Linux (an open source, free operating system) on a Windows machine (both can live together on the same hard drive) and then installed a Kodi version that works with Linux. Linux is a very safe option when it comes to malicious software and the like. It’s maintained by pretty idealistic and dedicated people and the free apps (applications) are usually well tested and junk free. Their custom Kodi version works well.

Ok, you’re no doubt even more confused 🙂

Anyone else? tcup?

I’d like to see the clubs that have internet TV get together and create a fitba app that has some basic streaming coverage of Scottish football plus the possibility to buy match tickets to individual matches that would let you tap into club’s in house stream for the day. The SPFL needs to sell the digital rights properly. For an enterprising type there is surely the possibility to create a Scottish Football app, and even make a basic version free for Kodi or whatever, a sort of appetiser.

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Big PinkPosted on2:49 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Guys,
If you can’t have a debate without having a side swipe at individuals, please don’t expect your post to stay up for long. Might be a good idea to try to put yourself in the other guy’s shoes for a minute before going on a sarcasm spree.

There is a serious debate to be had here – but only by grown-ups. Neither all Celtic fans, nor all fans of any other club are deserving of stereotyping. If that is your premise before making a point, please go to the various excellent fansites to make it.

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MoreCelticParanoia

MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on2:53 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:
Member: (180 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 2:22 pm

Jeesh, you have to be careful in this place :).
________________________________________

Not really, but consistency would be nice.

Your lengthy rebuttal doesn’t disguise the fact your assertion is other clubs can’t compete with Celtic at present without a greater slice of the cake. Then went on to bristle with agitation when someone made a similar observation. No-one said anything about “dragging down” Celtic.

The almost universally acknowledged fact (including by yourself) is that Celtic are stronger financially and on the park due to greater access to resource. All that was said was removing some of the resource – if and when it becomes available – certainly isn’t going to make Celtic stronger and a weakened Celtic will be more vulnerable to competition from other clubs.

Nothing really to get your knickers in a twist about and very unfair to compare with supremacist mindsets that exist elsewhere.

[ removed – ad hominem ]

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tayred

tayredPosted on2:58 pm - Aug 21, 2015


MoreCelticParanoia says:
Member: (120 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 2:40 pm

First and foremost, as I said on Friday morning I hope Celtic will get through. Secondly throughout this debate I have repeatedly stated I believe this is about UEFA and their system. That it impacts on Scotland I would suggest is obvious, I’ve tried to make the arguments about big club versus small club, not about Celtic.

I also think at various points I have clearly said there is a gap, it would be madness to suggest there isn’t What I didn’t appreciate is the insinuation that everyone else would be “Dragging Celtic down” – very John Collins like that one.

As for “Celtic fans can’t really win with this in your eyes.” – can’t you see this really isn’t about Celtic! I want football to win, not Aberdeen, or Arbroath or Rangers or whoever. Football continuing down this line will collapse. If we continue down this ridiculous route we will end up as someone earlier said – with Celtic playing against part-time clubs and scoring double figures every game. Why would supporters of small clubs turn up to watch? Why would supporters of Celtic turn up? But it’s not just Scotland – its every national football league where one or two teams routinely get massive riches as compared to the rest. Once they are in that club it becomes a vicious circle with only one outcome.

[ removed – ad hominem ]

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motor redPosted on2:58 pm - Aug 21, 2015


very true tayred, the dons and the celtic directors are both complicit in this fiasco as well as many others.

as far as their concerned we should just rock up without question as they continue to fill their bank accounts as they milk the game for all its worth to retain the status quo

what a sad state of affairs.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on2:59 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:
Member: (180 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 11:16 am

I think you may be working from a false premise. The money clubs get for competing in Europe is not the same in different countries. The money is divided up differently and two clubs attaining equal levels in the competition will not necessarily receive the same amount as far as I understand it.

The money is divided up depending on different factors, such as the size of the TV market in the individual countries. In essence if a country has a larger potential audience then their clubs are in a position to earn more from playing in the competition.

I take this from wiki so make up your own mind on it,

Fixed amounts (€724.4m)

• Group stage fee €12m

• Group stage performance €1.5m win / €500k draw

• Round of 16 €5.5m

• Quarter-finals €6m

• Semi-finals €7m

• Final €15m winners / €10.5m runners-up

• In addition, the winners of the 2015 UEFA Super Cup can expect to receive €4m and the runners-up €3m.

Market pool (€482.9m)

• The amount of €482.9m will be distributed according to the proportional value of each TV market represented by the clubs taking part in the UEFA Champions League (group stage onwards) and be split among the clubs participating from a given association.

• In accordance with the existing system, half of the amount representing the value of each market will be split among the clubs based on their performance in the previous domestic league championship and the other half will be paid in proportion to the number of matches played by each team in the 2015/16 UEFA Champions League.

• Each time that a club of an association represented by one or more clubs in the UEFA Champions League group stage is eliminated in the play-offs, 10% of the respective association’s market pool share will be allocated to the eliminated club. This is a new arrangement, which was not contemplated in the distribution system beforehand.

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tayred

tayredPosted on3:08 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Apologies MCP – my use of the phrase “dragging down” was wrong. What was actually said was “although this will only bring Celtic down to match other teams level”

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MoreCelticParanoia

MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on3:08 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:

August 21, 2015 at 2:58 pm
________________________________________________

I don’t think we’re so very far apart on the issue of resource allocation as I previously posted I have sympathy with the view that there should be more of an even share both in Scotland and Europe.

As for the “dragging down” – the original poster can speak for himself, but to me you are reading far too much into that statement and seeing what you apparently want to see.

As for John Collins – in your eyes he’s obviously committed some sort of crime, when in the eyes of many others he didn’t actually say anything that Derek McInnes hadn’t said himself other than expressng it in slightly more blunt terms.

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tayred

tayredPosted on3:11 pm - Aug 21, 2015


MCP no we probably aren’t so far apart. Lets also agree that we should steer clear of the JC debate again – there be monsters that shouldn’t be re-awoken!

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MoreCelticParanoia

MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on3:19 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:
Member: (182 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 3:08 pm

Apologies MCP – my use of the phrase “dragging down” was wrong. What was actually said was “although this will only bring Celtic down to match other teams level”
_________________________________________

Fair dos TR. 🙂

Agreed re JC. Here be monsters right enough!

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wottpiPosted on3:30 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Re the chat about fans turning out I thought the following may be of interest

http://www.fitbastats.com/hearts/club_records_league_attendance.php

http://www.fitbastats.com/celtic/club_records_league_attendance.php

http://www.fitbastats.com/rangers/club_records_league_attendance.php

From the figures it can be argued that Hearts were as well supported in terms of average attendances as the Glasgow two up to the start of the seventies.

The relegations of the 70’s, lack of finance and limited space to redevelop Tynecastle clearly had an impact on how the club developed. By the mid 80’s they were still putting up a decent fight in terms of average crowds. However the Murray and McCann effect combined with the aforementioned limitations of Tynecastle (and indeed many a club’s stadium) and probably other factors such as changes in society, movement of jobs and housing, improved transport, much easier to travel and glory hunt at Celtic and Ibrox probably all put paid to many smaller clubs retaining what mass interest there was from days gone by when folks, by and large, tended to support their local clubs.

While folks can slap themselves on the back for loyally supporting the big two in large numbers it can be seen that for some periods this was not always the case.

As opposed to being like the local businessmen that run other clubs, Murray and then McCann (regardless of where the money came from and how it ended up down Govan way) both have to be congratulated for seeing a bigger picture, an untapped resource and having the ability to take the opportunities to make things happen.

Sadly for a lot of clubs, such as Hearts, the opportunities were not there in the first place or due to other circumstances were missed or had to be passed up.

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tayred

tayredPosted on3:48 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (211 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 2:59 pm

My head hurts after trying to make sense of that! From what I can make of it everything is skewed to ensure the massive leagues get significantly more cash than anyone else.

It’s really not at all fair that say Chelsea would get more money than Celtic even if they went out at the same stage.

Also makes the inability of the league management to secure a decent TV deal even more expensive if the value of the TV market is taken into account to work out the amount divvied up between the league from which the contestant is based.

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SmugasPosted on3:49 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Joking apart (who said anyone was joking!) and with apologies BP for reducing it to club level which I see Tayred is keen to keep his point away from which I understand , do the celtic contingent think there would be room for any further distribution – and lets be blunt here I’m talking about siphoning off some of the European revenue that qualification gets the bigger club?

From my bystander position Celtic have sensibly not gone ‘CL or bust’ a la the Arsenals of this world but instead seem to have taken the safe middle ground of reinvesting only a portion of the proceeds apparently into players with potential who then bear their own fruit such as with Van Dyke(sp?). So, a genuinely serious question – do you think there would be any slack for some kind of further distribution, with a view to improving competition generally, and thus their own preparation for the money earning trophies or do you feel it would be more a case of simply being unfairly and more importantly unsustainably handicapped?

Just wondering.

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tayred

tayredPosted on3:52 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Big Pink says:
Moderator: (356 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 2:49 pm

Point taken. I consider myself suitably spanked. No offence intended.

I really should stop drinking so much coffee……

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on4:05 pm - Aug 21, 2015


wottpi says:
Member: (714 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 3:30 pm

I did say in my post that whilst some clubs may have a glorious history, in both their acheivements and their fan base the reality is that their financial position today is what is really important when looking at things from an “even playing field” perspective. Clubs are where they are.

Celtic have been really lucky when it comes to a wealthy benefactor and fans investing in the club. Celtic were very close to dying off as a club. In the days before the saftey net of administration even existed. Celtic would have been closed down and died, the Daily Record even sent a hearse to Celtic Park to take a picture making that point.

The attendances were low and the club was, as said before dying. Fergus McCann, plus 3 fully subscribed share issues (with a lot of money coming from the fans) between 1995 and 2005 have helped Celtic to survive and some would say prosper. People like Brian Quinn have seen to that and have for the most part tried to ensure the club works within it’s means.

Celtic are the biggest club in Scotland (financially) however that was not always the case, neither was it the case of Celtic always having a very healthy support and finishing in the top two in the league. You have posted stats for attendances, if we look at legue position between 1989 and 1995 Celtic were 5th 3rd 3rd 3rd 4th 4th.

So whilst people may think I am being glib talking about clubs and their supporters looking to themselves first that is coming from a position of my own club having been there.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:10 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Re: SMSM print content quality and online presence
===================================================

I was attracted to the RTC site because I was fascinated at the seemingly obvious fact that a huge sports story was being actively ignored by the SMSM – and that at some point a huge, handbrake U-turn was inevitable in their negligent ‘reporting’.

Wrt print media, when I first started buying a paper as a student, I confess that I bought the DR. The main content I didn’t rate, but I bought it specifically for the footie coverage ! I know now…ignorance is bliss.

Later I bought the Daily Mail, which was OK but tended to be London-centric, even in the supposed ‘Scottish Edition’. Then it started to go more right wing and downhill.

Then I started buying The Times. Painfully aware it was a Murdoch rag, it did however contain some decent, in-depth articles.

Now when I go home I don’t buy any papers.

We all know the print copy sales are falling off a cliff, so the SMSM newspapers’ future is online.

However, I have noticed more so in recent years that the online newspapers are dreadful. Their content seems to be driven by online viral videos, Twitter hashtags, and blatant adverts posing as ‘journalism’.
My daughters now check the Daily Mail online to get all the recent nonsense on the Kardashians, [I KNOW !].

So my point is, whilst we would like to see the quality of the SMSM sports reporting improve, I have not seen anything yet that should give us hope: quite the opposite in fact. The coverage of TRFC, the SFA, the non-SPL clubs has been as poor as ever.

So perhaps reinforcement that there will still be a huge gap to fill for supporters to get decent, online footie coverage – and SFM has a viable opportunity to plug some of that gap.

And to put into perspective: could you imagine the ‘Multiple Award Winning’ Keef Jackson being able to post a decent blog on this site ?
That is not intended to be smug about the quality of SFM content, but being critical of the dearth of quality amongst the SMSM sports ‘journalists’. :slamb:

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on4:14 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Smugas says:
Member: (912 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 3:49 pm

It would be a difficult argument to put across. At the end of the day Celtic are a PLC and the responsibility of it’s board is to act in the best interests of it’s shareholders.

It could be argued two ways, giving away some of your income to rivals would strengthen them, make for a more competitive league and possibly help strengthen you with more testing competition on a regular basis.

However the counter argument is that it would also lessen the chance of you winning things and earning money. Your expenses may also increase if you have to buy / pay better players.

On balance I don’t really see how a board would be justified in doing it.

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wottpiPosted on4:25 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
August 21, 2015 at 4:05

No slight intended. I am sure many are aware of historical matters.
Just trying to make sure that those who maybe don’t pay attention to such matters realise, as you say, things haven’t always been thus and with many things in life it does sometimes come down to luck and circumstance.

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SmugasPosted on4:27 pm - Aug 21, 2015


But isn’t that the nub Homunculus?

Presumably you wouldn’t have to buy better players if the standard stays the same (essentially the position a financially safe Celtic finds itself in just now)? You would only have to buy better players if your standard has stalled and a competitor’s has improved. Thus your standard and the standard of at least one other competitor has improved.

But then does it then simply help create a two tier league where (for sake of argument) Aberdeen, Dundee, Hearts, Inverness etc get slightly better at the expense of the occasional successes now rendered impossible of (again for arguments sake) Ross Co, Utd, Hibs and Kilmarnock. I would argue that this is what has happened in Engerland, for better or worse, obviously then drastically distorted by the tv rights .

The more I think of it the more it smacks of the 3 * 6 phenomenon that called itself a proposed restructure and was chucked out last year. I obviously retain my own thoughts on that one. Suffice to say I didn’t feel they paid much attention to the top six (or bottom six for that matter).

Intriguing.

Its a waste of time when the liquidate and repeat option remains a viable alternative, obviously!

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Big PinkPosted on4:40 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (213 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 4:05 pm (Edit)

wottpi says:
Member: (714 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 3:30 pm

Celtic have been really lucky when it comes to a wealthy benefactor and fans investing in the club.
________________________________________

Which wealthy benefactor are you speaking of – and what is the extent of the benefaction involved? 🙂

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Big PinkPosted on4:52 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (213 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 4:14 pm

Smugas says:
Member: (912 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 3:49 pm

It would be a difficult argument to put across. At the end of the day Celtic are a PLC and the responsibility of it’s board is to act in the best interests of it’s shareholders.
____________________________________________________

Nominally yes – and this is a good shield for clubs to hide behind when looking at the big picture, but where has the shareholders interests been served with the zero response to the mal-governance of the game. In Celtic’s case, illustrated by the slow bicycle race approach to Resolution 12. As far as I can see the club have sat back and allowed shareholders to do all the work on behalf of the club – not the other way round.

Properly looking after shareholders interests is too often (in fact almost always) confused with short term knee-jerk reaction to events. I don’t see it’s a difficult argument to get across intellectually, that short term gain which leads to zero competition is actually a prescription for certain death.

Unfortunately, intellect is not something routinely employed in football.

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Big PinkPosted on5:01 pm - Aug 21, 2015


I am uncomfortable with the notion that redistributing money in football is “giving” money to your rivals. If that is the case then there was a hell of a lot of “giving” taking place in 1981 – in the opposite direction.

Again, conflating redistributing monies with charity is the sort of language which prevents clear thought on this matter.

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Big PinkPosted on5:03 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus
Please forgive me if it looks like I am picking on you. Not at all. You have just provided a lot of food for thought 🙂

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tayred

tayredPosted on5:13 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Big Pink says:
Moderator: (361 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm

Got me intrigued. What happened in 1981?

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SmugasPosted on5:24 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Oh thank goodness TR. I thought it was just me!

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tayred

tayredPosted on5:26 pm - Aug 21, 2015


😆 Given the silence I think he’s gone hame fer his tea. The suspense is killing me though 😛

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scottc

scottcPosted on5:49 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:
Member: (187 comments)

Got me intrigued. What happened in 1981?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

New Firm era???????????????

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easyJamboPosted on6:16 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says: August 21, 2015 at 5:13 pm

Got me intrigued. What happened in 1981?
====================
The end of gate sharing for league matches.

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wottpiPosted on6:25 pm - Aug 21, 2015


As has been commented on before the redistibution of income (or is it fair distribution) as seen in the NFL gives all teams a chance of success in a confined domestic league.

I heard someone of the radio the other day talking about market economy and market society. The latter being the application of the ‘free for all’, ‘winner takes all’ aspects market economy to areas of society where it should really have no place. The result being that aspects of society and life (for example trad-able quotas in refugees applying for asylum) then become nothing more than commodities to be bought, sold and left to wither if deemed necessary.

I suppose on reflection it can be argued that by following the free market principles SDM fell foul of the market society which ate up and spat out Rangers (IL) as being nothing more than a failed corporate entity but the half ersed 5 way agreement was a panicked attempt to resolve the situation and perhaps recognize that football clubs, the fans etc should be viewed in a different light. (Not that old chestnut I hear you shout!!)

If a more measured approach had been applied in the past not only to Rangers (IL) but to the whole of Scottish football we may all have been in a better place than we find ourselves today.

Perhaps something to think about going forward.

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Big PinkPosted on6:41 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:
Member: (187 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 5:13 pm (Edit)

Big Pink says:
Moderator: (361 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm

Got me intrigued. What happened in 1981?
____________________________________________

Wot EJ said 🙂

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Big PinkPosted on6:44 pm - Aug 21, 2015


wottpi says:
Member: (716 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 6:25 pm (Edit)

As has been commented on before the redistibution of income (or is it fair distribution) as seen in the NFL gives all teams a chance of success in a confined domestic league.

I heard someone of the radio the other day talking about market economy and market society. The latter being the application of the ‘free for all’, ‘winner takes all’ aspects market economy to areas of society where it should really have no place. The result being that aspects of society and life (for example trad-able quotas in refugees applying for asylum) then become nothing more than commodities to be bought, sold and left to wither if deemed necessary.

I suppose on reflection it can be argued that by following the free market principles SDM fell foul of the market society which ate up and spat out Rangers (IL) as being nothing more than a failed corporate entity but the half ersed 5 way agreement was a panicked attempt to resolve the situation and perhaps recognize that football clubs, the fans etc should be viewed in a different light. (Not that old chestnut I hear you shout!!)

If a more measured approach had been applied in the past not only to Rangers (IL) but to the whole of Scottish football we may all have been in a better place than we find ourselves today.

Perhaps something to think about going forward.
______________________________________________

Precisely. The market is seen as the way forward if you are a WEE team, but if you’re too big to fail, a heavy touch of regulation is required …

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:44 pm - Aug 21, 2015


motor red says:
Member: (34 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 11:33 am

dear matty what are you on about? us v them? the authorities?or should i wear a celtic scarf as i post?what do i do, help! i posted a genuine heartfelt response if you don’t like it save me your condescending nonsense. if you find my post ill thought out ,then your very very wrong, uneducated perhaps. i have much admiration for many of your posts and big pinks.so lighten up man am sure big pink can speak for himself. thank you for removing clusters comment.
———–
I believe i never had a comment removed (looking back)
The Mods will correct me if i am wrong.And if i did have a comment removed,I apologise to the blog

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on6:45 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Big Pink says:
Moderator: (361 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 4:52 pm

The point is, it is the Celtic boards decision to make. Whilst you may think it is short term thinking on their part, and you are obviously perfectly entitled to hold and express that opinion it really makes no never mind.

If the Celtic board have decided that a certain course is in the best interests of the shareholders who elected them then that is precisely the course they should take. It is what they were put there for.

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John ClarkPosted on6:50 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1362 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 2:47 pm
‘..Not sure I’d install Kodi & add-on apps on your valuable Windows PC.’
_______
Thanks, DP, its’s a bit clearer.
And I’m with you in the view that our Football leagues should be thinking about actually seizing control of their ‘rights’rather than ‘selling’them off to the TV people for a relative pittance..

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Big PinkPosted on7:12 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (216 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 6:45 pm (Edit)

Big Pink says:
Moderator: (361 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 4:52 pm

The point is, it is the Celtic boards decision to make. Whilst you may think it is short term thinking on their part, and you are obviously perfectly entitled to hold and express that opinion it really makes no never mind.

If the Celtic board have decided that a certain course is in the best interests of the shareholders who elected them then that is precisely the course they should take. It is what they were put there for.
__________________________________________________

So we should all sing “Hail to the chief” and know our place then? The point is that they are clearly not working in the best interests of shareholders if they don’t pursue the tens of millions that the shareholders were deprived of when licensing was awarded in error (I hope).

You can speak for yourself if you like, but my opinion, flawed though it may be is not in the ‘make no never mind’ category.

If we follow that mantra, we are all wasting our time here.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on7:26 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Big Pink says:
Moderator: (364 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 7:12 pm

I didn’t say we should all say “Hail to the chief”. Neither did I say it was a mantra we should all be following. So I would appreciate it if you didn’t put words in my mouth.

I merely pointed out that it was the Celtic board’s job to decide what was in the best interests of the shareholders who put them there. That is merely stating the reality of the situation.

You may think they are making the wrong decision, and as I was at pains to point out, you have every right to hold and express that opinion. However the reality is it is a matter for them to make the decisions and act on them.

If shareholders or supporters (customers) disagree then they should make that clear. Then the board would have to re-assess their decision. That is how it works. If the supporters are not happy then they may withdraw that support, causing the business great harm.

The fans of Scottish football clubs have already demonstrated this when they ensured that Rangers were not allowed directly into the SPL (as was) or the top division of the SFL (as was).

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roddybhoyPosted on7:49 pm - Aug 21, 2015


hate to see the blog arguing like this because we must be focused on the immediate issues which is rid the game of the SFA and SPFL amateurs who are being paid good money to “govern” our game. One target at a time not scattergun approach . If we had genuine professionals running our game ( who actually cared about ALL the clubs and not following a cowardly agenda) there could be great improvements in our game in no time at all. There are some good teams in the lower division . Morton v St Mirren tonight is a tasty one , Im sure in years to come we could maybe have a bigger league if the lower division teams keep up the good work. What we dont want is our corrupt officials forcing it on us for all the wrong reasons. Sort out the TV deal , think out the box as many on here have said …………BUT….until we put real pressure the SFA etc I honestly dont think much will change. There are a lot of positives in the game just now but the SFA etc will never trumpet any kind of success until The Rangers are back in their “rightful place”. I just wish as a blog we were more focused in this one aim as Im convinced that is the key to Scottish football once again being a sport we can all enjoy………….off to watch the Ton pump the Buddies on Alba

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on8:02 pm - Aug 21, 2015


The Private Eye story source document:

Love “the Note” Similarily the website is full of to be updated shortly type of guff.
===================================
Worthington Group PLC
12 June 2015
Worthington Group plc (“the Company” or “Worthington”)
12(th) June 2015
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Update in relation to possible merger
Pursuant to Rule 2.6(c) of the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers (the “Code”), the Company has requested a 28 day extension to the period of time whereby Nuna Minerals A/S (“Nuna”) must, under Rule 2.6 (a) of the Code, either announce a firm intention to make an offer for the Company or announce that it does not intend to make an offer. Therefore the extended deadline is now 5pm on 10(th) July 2015.
The Company understands that progress is being made in relation to the proposed refinancing of Nuna by Greenland Mining Management Ltd.
The Takeover Panel has consented to this extension.
There can be no certainty that these discussions will lead to an offer being made for the Company, nor as to the terms on which any offer may be made.
About Worthington Group Plc (“Worthington”)
Worthington (Stock Exchange LSE: WRN) is a British investment company that celebrates its 61st anniversary as a London Stock Exchange main market listed company this year. The Company has four areas of investment focus: property, litigation claims, new economy and emerging markets. The Company believes that exceptional shareholder returns can be achieved by utilising its main market Sterling paper to acquire investments in these sectors worldwide.
Note: Forward-looking statements contained in this announcement, including Worthington’s strategy and plans, as well as expectations for future revenue and earnings, reflect Worthington’s current views and assumptions with respect to future events and are subject to certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions. There are many factors that may cause actual results achieved to differ materially from expectations for future results and expectations that may be expressed in or form an assumption of such forward-looking statements. Such factors include risks related to the day to day business of Worthington, client volatility, sales fluctuations, the general economic climate, political and environment and other risks, cancellations, software failures and interruption to service to customers due to technical problems, acquisition delays and failure as well as other uncertainties related to the results of Worthington including risks of delays or closure of projects, price falls, currency fluctuations and changes in contract terms, legislation and administrative practices, as well as competition risk and other unforeseen factors. If one or more of such risks or factors of uncertainty were to materialise, or should one or more of the statements provided prove to be incorrect, actual

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RyanGosling

RyanGoslingPosted on8:05 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Big Pink, did you just set a new world record this afternoon? I counted five consecutive unanswered posts, that is dedication my dear moderator!

Roddybhoy I actually think it’s quite good when the blog is filled with arguments like this, ad hominem stuff aside, as it means w are actually debating and progressing. We wouldn’t get very far if all we did was sit around and pat each other’s backs.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on8:07 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Interestingly the Easdale’s have returned to home turf in tonight’s game v the ‘buddies in Greenock.
The other lot must have been their “wee” team”
Ducks.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:11 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Extracted from Barry Ferguson’s column in the DR today;

“BY the end of Sunday, BARRY Stubbs’ remarks will either hit their mark or blow up in the Leith gaffer’s face…”
===================================
The article is of course all about TRFC.

…but “BARRY Stubbs” ?!

Reminds me of the old story about Bobby Robson when manager of England calling Bryan Robson ‘Bobby’, to which he replied; “No I’m Bryan, you’re Bobby.”

And that typo has remained on the DR article online for 13 hours now, so they don’t bother reading their own rubbish either ? :slamb:

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Danish PastryPosted on8:21 pm - Aug 21, 2015


roddybhoy says:
Member: (26 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 7:49 pm

Morton v St Mirren tonight is a tasty one ………….off to watch the Ton pump the Buddies on Alba
——-
Isn’t it just. Big queue outside at kick-off! Controversy annaw — this disallowed goal will keep the phone-ins going … or not 😀

Good stuff so far. Great to see this tie and Cappielow with a big crowd. Retro stuff. I follow the Cappielow groundsman on twitter. Posts great photos.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on8:39 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Danish Roddy

Fair travelling support.

Whats the problem with standing? Everyone is. The only sittees being the Easdales / Greenock directors box.

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scottc

scottcPosted on9:24 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Homunculus says:

If shareholders or supporters (customers) disagree then they should make that clear. Then the board would have to re-assess their decision. That is how it works. If the supporters are not happy then they may withdraw that support, causing the business great harm.

Over the last few years have they not already been doing just that (withdrawing support) by not turning up for league matches in the numbers that European matches or Season Ticket sales suggest they should be? Maybe that is just rumour, of course; I can’t say I have paid great attention to CP crowds but so long as ‘total’ sales are reported as attendance, we shall never know. Scottish football is dying a death and it started when the SPL was created and gate sharing stopped.

We need to find some way of ‘taxing’ total gates for the benefit of ALL the teams in the league. At least it would be a start

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on9:28 pm - Aug 21, 2015


In the facing your manager after you’ve lost stakes. I definitely wouldn’t be looking forward to meeting Mr J Duffy. Looks like he could give his complete team a severe doing. and then ask whos left.
Sorry GM fans.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:07 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Remember it was said that on June 2015 that…
RANGERS chairman Dave King could receive a £1.4 million payout through the liquidation of the club’s former operating company.

It’s all the South African businessman will claw back from the £20 million he’s listed as being owed by The Rangers Football Club plc.

Creditors are set to receive just six or seven pence for every pound owed, according to liquidators BDO.
They plan to make an interim payout of £10 million to creditors by the end of next month from the company which was renamed RFC 2012 plc.
That month has now passed and no news of this pay out.It has all gone a bit quite after the banner headlines

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:16 pm - Aug 21, 2015


This was the statement:

http://www.bdo.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/1347695/RFC-progress-report-12-06-15-WEBSITE.pdf

Yes talks about end July but now we have a pending judgement.
I believe possibly incorrectly that that moneys cannot be disbursed until such times HMRC have satisfaction (or not)?

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:34 pm - Aug 21, 2015


scottc says:
Member: (215 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 9:24 pm

If you want to know the actual attendance at a football ground, rather than the ticket sales I think you could probably get it using a freedom of information request to Police Scotland. I assume they would keep a record of the number of people who were actually there for health and safety / public order reasons.

You could try starting here

http://www.scotland.police.uk/access-to-information/freedom-of-information/

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:35 pm - Aug 21, 2015


ianagain says:
Member: (682 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 10:16 pm
—–
Thanks

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CastofthousandsPosted on10:51 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Matty Roth says:
Member: (239 comments)
August 20, 2015 at 1:14 pm

“Lets keep in mind that what allows Celtic to “give” this money to the rest of the SPFL IS the disparity that allows them to win a league at a canter every year.”
——————————
Then perhaps John Collin’s remarks might be viewed as a trope to provide a ‘gee up’ to league competitors.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:53 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Castofthousands says:
Member: (285 comments)

August 21, 2015 at 10:39 pm

Finloch says:
Member: (62 comments)
August 20, 2015 at 1:13 pm

“They want to and need to stay the biggest fish in their proverbial shrinking pond even though business sense would deem a dominant 1 or 2 clubs as being not good for our long term league.”
————————–
Inevitably, in a sporting environment, competitors will strive to outstrip their opponents. You don’t need a sport’s psychologist to tell you that you need to focus on your own efforts if you wish to succeed.

So fundamentally the overall competitiveness of a league is not the concern of individual competitors, it cannot be. This is a concern for the apparently absentee sport governing bodies.

The whole echelonic system of competition had its original aim to bring the highest standards into subsidiary leagues that fed European competition. Celtic or any dominant national league club will have to aim high to compete in European competition and when they return to their domestic leagues their standard will have benefited from this experience. Ultimately the clubs that wish to compete with them domestically will have to raise their game in order to provide significant opposition. This is how the system is ‘designed’ to operate.

The actuality of there being dominant teams within domestic leagues is manifest across Europe and probably further. This is an accident of fate up to a point. In other era’s Queen’s Park or Renton might have been the trail blazers that imported the European competition standards that domestic clubs would aspire to. That it should be the ‘ugly sisters’ that perform this function is an accident of timing and has resonance with a deeper history. I don’t think you can filter out such cultural and historic influences; these are bound to be ubiquitous. Barcelona are a big club because of the strong Catalan allegiance to their own cultural independence. However such accidents of fate and history need not be endlessly enduring. Where are Renton now?

Ultimately we can decry where we are now but this is a self indulgent wallow. Despite all expectations, Rangers may never fully recover their recent historical predominance. Things change.

It is a game. Play the game. Results can turn on meagre decisions. The whole tide of history turns on trivial episodes. No point in decrying Celtic, Barcelona or Rotherham. In a decades time things may have changed and the discussion with it. Hobbling Celtic is not the solution. Scotland needs a club in Europe to import that standard of competition into domestic football.
=================================
And this is why I hang on in here, the above is really really what we are are about.
Superb analysis in a very few words.

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CastofthousandsPosted on11:03 pm - Aug 21, 2015


tayred says:
Member: (187 comments)
August 20, 2015 at 2:41 pm

“I can only see more and more damage being caused to all national leagues by this continued pursuit of pure money.”
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Cancelling your subscription to Sky Television would be a small but poignant reinforcement of your position.

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jimboPosted on11:05 pm - Aug 21, 2015


A lot of the stuff posted today, I don’t understand. The top guys at Scottish Football are easy targets. SR, ND, CO. They have said some stupid things (or not said anything CO)

But you know who is really to blame for everything wrong in Scottish football this last decade? The representatives of each team who had a vote. And I include Celtics men there. It wasn’t until fans from all over Scotland threatened a boycott they actually grew a pair.

5 way secret agreements are only permissible by the collusion of our disgusting agreement of our local Chairmen. Makes me sick.

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John ClarkPosted on11:11 pm - Aug 21, 2015


ianagain says:
Member: (682 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 10:16 pm
____
I had a wee refresher look at the statement from the Liquidators ( your link was quite handy, ianagain).

I cannot deny that a smile passed across my face when I re-read this para:

‘Creditors may be aware that the former Joint Administrators, amongst others, were arrested on 14 November 2014 and charges were subsequently brought against them. The Joint Liquidators continue to monitor the position in case the actions being taken by Police Scotland have any impact on the Liquidation’
The smile was not, I hope, a reflection of joy at the difficulties of others,
but at the low key ‘in case’! 😀

I remove myself from any discussion of any particular case when I ask ( as I think I may have done before, without getting any answer!): hypothetically, what would happen if the administrators of a company ‘in administration’ were to conspire to ensure that any attempt to achieve a CVA to save the company from liquidation would fail, having made a prior ‘exclusivity’ deal with fellow-conspirators to sell to them, dirt cheap, the assets of the company that they then put into Liquidation?
Would such a sale of assets be deemed to be legal?Or totally invalid-leaving those who subsequently bought from the ‘non-owners’ in the position of absolute patsies, out of pocket, with no entitlement to the ownership of the assets?
Such a scenario would surely be impossible?
Surely?
In practice, probably. Because the ramifications would be extensive and raise huge problems.
But what of “the Law?” 🙂

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:20 pm - Aug 21, 2015


Well now JC we await our own bewigged friends I guess to decide on the outcome.

I can only assume a very very fair procedure will take place .
Interesting.

Ill start a buy JC 120 HB,s fund immediately. Do you favour the yellow legal pad or the book variety?

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motor redPosted on11:52 pm - Aug 21, 2015


castofthousands, do you actually believe that our two bit coin players can raise their game against players from virtually a different stratosphere? no amount of slander/ small decisions or raising your game is going to change the state of play as much as you may wish. the gulf will still remain for the forseeable future,even if a challenge could be achieved the big club will simply buy up their best players to stay ahead. i feel like we are going round in circles here.

i predict that celtic will win the league by double figures again as the dons will not be nearly as consistent this time around as some of the other clubs around us have improved IMO.

thing is we are all in agreement the system needs to change and id like to add its not celtics fault! before someone gets a tad sensitive.

good post woking celt.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:56 pm - Aug 21, 2015


I know I’ve bored everyone to death on here about stories of my wee gang who used to go rotate around Celtic Rangers Motherwell games.
Well we did it again at the weekend. My Gers fanatic mate came to Motherwell v Aberdeen where we met an interesting couple from Aberdeen who travel about to Dundee utd Man U and Aberdeen games.
So whose to say they have a wrong view, they just go to games.
And we are lucky folk like that do. This was her 2nd game ever.
I believe she enjoyed being at the well over Man u

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on12:14 am - Aug 22, 2015


ianagain says:
Member: (683 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 8:02 pm
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http://www.shareprophets.com/views/14088/worthington-gets-another-42-days-to-be-taken-over-by-bankrupt-nuna-the-comedy-continues

IA You may already know about this site, it has a great deal to say about Worthington and Aiden Earley

http://www.shareprophets.com/views/12831/all-worthington-articles-the-fraud-series-now-back-up

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CastofthousandsPosted on12:16 am - Aug 22, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1125 comments)
August 21, 2015 at 11:22 am

“Could that be part of the answer to the financial imbalance between our clubs both domestically and in European competitions?”
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The financial imbalance is due to the influx of TV money. Thirty years ago the TV market was substantially less significant. With the advent of the internet and portable technology there is a lot of air time that needs filling. Period dramas are costly but football games happened even before the TV money was around so represents available content that can be marketed to the masses across the world. Long term it may take the emergence of local teams in the emerging markets to ween viewers off European product. Until that happens European football will likely continue to attract disproportionate interest. This probably goes beyond sport’s governance but if governance had the will it might find a way.

However as was mentioned previously, if governance gets too heavy handed the big teams will up sticks and create their own tournament. Football becoming ever more global is a success story that brings with it uncomfortable growing pains.

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