The “Lawwell Letter” is trending everywhere this week. To elucidate, it is email sent to (among others) Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley of Celtic on 26 July 2012 by SPL CEO Neil Doncaster.
The email came with an attached copy of the Five Way Agreement (hereafter “5WA”, the deal between Sevco, Rangers, the SFA, the SPL and the SFL). Now that it has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.
I would preface my comments with a caveat though. On the face of it, the Celtic Chief Executive appears to have misled the gathering at the recent Celtic AGM. He was asked by a shareholder if Celtic were involved in the Five Way Agreement. Lawwell replied, “No”, and gave same “No” response to the follow up question, “have you seen it?”
Given that a copy of that email was in the possession of a few folk before that AGM, I have to admit to being surprised by that answer – although even more surprised at the apparent lack of due diligence implied by the lack of knowledge of its content.
We have attempted to contact Mr Lawwell to ask him if he would like to comment on the apparent discrepancy between the evidence and his answer (and I am sure we are not the only ones to have done so). To date, we have received no response. Given the complete lack of acknowledgement of the existence of this anomaly in the MSM, we should perhaps assume that none will be forthcoming.
Perhaps there is an explanation (yes I know), but Celtic should know, like Rangers old and new have come to realise, that silence on these matters breeds deep suspicion and distrust.
Assuming for the minute that Occam’s Razor applies here, there may be an uncomfortable truth emerging for Celtic fans – that Rangers (old and new) do not have a monopoly on dishonesty. There is also an uncomfortable truth that should emerge for Rangers fans too – that as we have said all along, this has never been about just Rangers, but about the governance of the game.
If the Celtic CEO did lie to the AGM a few weeks ago what are the consequences? He broke no laws as far as I can see. One insider I spoke to said simply this,
“So he lied. So what? What happens now? It’s irrelevant”
That is of course absolutely true. As long as controlling shareholders are happy that Resolution 12 is buried, and that no deep inquiry into governance is held into the workings of the game in Scotland, the lie is nonpunishable, though it would be a mistake to believe that accountability is confined only to the corporate rules governing Boards and shareholders; the corporate veil of “I was only following company policy” can be readily challenged in the court of public opinion, which has no statute of limitations.
What all this demonstrates of course is that Celtic have been saying one thing to their fans and shareholders, nodding agreement in private meetings about how appalling Rangers behaviour was, tut-tutting over how amateurish the authorities were, and wringing their hands in frustration at what a sham the LNS inquiry turned out to be.
At the same time, they have done nothing, allowed small shareholders to spend not inconsiderable suns progressing the matter, and quietly hoped that the “appetite” for justice would diminish so they could get back to whatever it is they and the rest do when subject to little or no scrutiny.
Whilst ten in a row is on the table of course, they can get away with it. To Celtic fans right now, understandably, nothing else matters. But what if TIAR is derailed? Not a stretch to imagine that the Parkhead kitchen could get uncontrollably hot in that circumstance. And when the TIAR squirrel finally ends its scurry, in either success or failure, where will the fans attention be diverted?
Perhaps the arrogance that permits making (allegedly) false statements to a general meeting, and (allegedly) misleading shareholders over Res 12 is borne of the knowledge that the parachutes are ready to be deployed when either of the above scenarios come to pass? If TIAR is achieved or goes south, are they already prepared for an emergency exit?
Celtic have two major shareholders whose combined holding is over 50% of the club’s shares. Dermot Desmond and Nick Train. Desmond is now in his eighth decade and Train is reportedly having some business difficulties. Both may well be moved to get out anyway, but fan unrest would make their decision a whole lot easier.
And Lawwell himself is – if you believe the MSM – on the wanted list of nearly as many top clubs as Alfredo Morelos.
The foregoing of course is extremely “Old Firm” centric, and as the two biggest clubs in the country they certainly have the biggest impact on the game, culturally, socially and financially. However there is no get-out clause here for others.
We KNOW there is evidence of fraud surrounding the licencing issue in 2012. We KNOW there is evidence of a cover up over that, and the EBT-related registration issues for Old Rangers. We KNOW that the Five Way Agreement was signed by football authorities in the knowledge that it would rob their own rules of judicial authority with regard to compliance by RFC prior to 2012.
We also know that NOT ONE club has taken a meaningful stand against any of it.
Clubs are saying one thing to supporters and doing their best to derail those supporters’ efforts on the other. We can also infer (not unreasonably) that the folk who run the clubs think that we as fans have no right to interfere in how they run their operations.
As I said earlier, Celtic can do what they like whilst TIAR is live, but afterwards, however it ends, the fans and shareholders involved in Res 12 will still be asking questions. Celtic in particular know how fatal it can be to alienate their own fan base – a fan base that has flexed its muscles with devastating effect for the boardroom in the past. And it is the wrath of the fans of all clubs that will eventually see the charlatans get their just desserts.
Our job as fans is to continue to hold those who care little for the honour and beauty of football to account, to continue to press them on their refusal to deal with arguably the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history.
The bottom line (which is of course what the folk in boardrooms care about) is this. They need us far more than we need them. As fans of different clubs, the sensibility of those of us at SFM recognises that the real battle, the real war, is not between rival fans or rival clubs, but between the arrogant, self-entitled clique who run our game; who lie for fun, who cheat and belittle the sport; and the good folk who make it possible for the game to prosper.
Resolution 12 is not just about Rangers – nor is it just about Celtic. It deserves to be embraced by every true football fan in the country. The Res 12 franchise needs to widened
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 10:43
Easyjambo@10.24
I’m wondering now if Santos had immediately been arrested would Copenhagen have been allowed to make a substitution?
=======================
The Polis could have done CFC a favour last night and arrested a few CFC players too – during the game – for fraudulently impersonating footy players!
Could have arrested Lennon for negligently NOT closing down the game for those last 5 minutes – and to heed the oldest saying in the footy book – 'you score a goal you lose a goal' – and use the Extra Time to secure a winner in front of the home support.
'Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 10:43
I’m wondering now if Santos had immediately been arrested would Copenhagen have been allowed to make a substitution?'
###################
Wouldn't that be a VAR recommendation for review for a potential red card under Law 12 – Fouls & Misconduct?
(Disclaimer: I haven't seen the match or the alleged incident.)
I don't as a rule comment on particular football matches or results (my interest being more focussed on whether the game as a whole is worth the candle when its governance as a whole is guilty of sporting corruption and running it on a fundamental lie.
However, the effect on Simunovich of his catastrophic error was the equivalent of a serious injury. he was clearly in shock at the enormous consequences of his error and unable to function effectually.
He should have been substituted ,not as any kind of 'punishment', of course, but because, like an injured player, he had become a liability in so far as no confidence could be placed in him.
And with him still on the pitch , the other ten could not do the more normal thing of battening down the hatches ,as teams reduced to ten men so often can do.
I think Lennon misjudged that whole situation. And the headless chicken behaviour began as all cohesion evaporated with quite a while to go.
But then, what do I know.
The Celtic board , having been quite unconcerned a number of years ago at possibly having been diddled out of a few million quid, will be able to shrug off the lost opportunity of earning a few more!
Watched the Europa cup draw and couldn't believe they said rangers of course where in the 2008 final, I give up, I now urge every club in Scotland to cheat like f**k, don't pay tax and start again on a journey, uefa and sfa don't seem to mind so what's stopping any team from doing it
That'll be this season's shortfall dealt with then .
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-prize-money-boost-europa-21594324
Well, if we're ever going to see these RIFC Interims…
I thought immediately after the Braga win was an ideal time to release them.
So, I suppose tonight / late on a Friday evening is the best / last chance…?
Personally, I don't think Interims will be released now.
…and should that transpire, it should further alarm the bears / the SFA / the SPFL / Ibrox creditors / etc…]
StevieBC
TRFC fans don't care about that stuff, they beat braga everything is rosey in the garden, till Saturday evening
Paddymalarkey@12.43
Or pay off Dave King?
Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 13:44
A wee bit misleading , as the 13.4 million euros referred to is split among the qualifying teams , meaning TRFC hoover up the share that would have been CFC's , about £250k .
Actually, whilst I'm rabbiting on about Interims…
I checked back to earlier years on the 'RFC' website's 'Report & Accounts' section to see what variations – if any – there had been in Interims' release dates.
Last year the Interims were released 25th February, 2019. [Hence, the expectation this week.]
But, the previous year they were released a month later: 29th March, 2018.
And more curious;
for the earlier again, 2 years Interims, [for the 6 months to 31/12/17 & to 31/12/16], the official document does not actually include a date… and not even a signature.
[2018 & '19 have both been signed – and dated – by King.]
RIFC was delisted from the AIM Stock Exchange back in March '15.
Probably means nothing in the great scheme of things, but when it comes to 'official' returns – typically – people tend to deliberately follow the same, strict conventions of format and timings – if only to avoid confusion and follow up questions from officialdom.
bordersdon 27th February 2020 at 22:38
——————————————-
Definitely not a Celtic forum. I think the last three blogs have savaged the Celtic PLC Board. Personally I think it's time some of the other Club boards in Scotland got a bit of heat on here. In particular the boards of Aberdeen, Hibernian and Kilmarnock, all of whom publicly ran a mile from demanding an inquiry into why the SFA were so lax with a club who operated a completely illegal tax avoidance scheme to better themselves on the park.
The Celtic PLC board are deserving of some heat, that's for sure, but there is not one single other club in Scotland holding the moral high ground, that's also for sure. In my opinion of course.
upthehoops 28th February 2020 at 16:25
'..but there is not one single other club in Scotland holding the moral high ground, that's also for sure.'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%
And the lying and cheating was not even 'necessary'.
It is quite impossible to accept that everybody in Scottish football governance really believed that TRFC would not draw the same volume of support from its 40K plus season tickets sales and walk-up supporters if the SFA played it straight , applied the rules that had applied to everybody else for generations, and stated plainly that the new club they were (fairly generously, perhaps) admitting into football for the first time was not RFC of 1872, and could not possibly claim to be so by passing over a few quid to 'buy' sporting merit and entitlements.
No, however much they may have mumped and moaned and marched to Hampden, if the SFA had stood firm in truth and sporting honour,TRFC would just have had to accept the truth, and the supporters would not have off their own noses to spite their faces.
It seems to me that the need to cause agitation and trouble and threats stemmed from the need to get a public share offer issued, based on 'continuity'.
Public acknowledgement by the SFA that TRFC was not the most successful club in world football might have made such share offer decidedly unsuccessful.
I believe that the deceit really only mattered to the people who wanted to make money out of another football club's achievements, and the SFA helped them by disregarding rules, especially the rues of common sense.
Very few 'Rangers supporters' would have turned their back on the fledgling club, and would instead have lavished even more support : what the new club stands for emotionally is the same as what the dead club stood for.
Correcting the record books to restore truth would not have changed that!
And the SFA and the other clubs must have known that, but chickened out regardless.
upthehoops
Also don't think it's a celtic forum, be pretty boring if it was, as you say about other clubs, yes they should be shouting from rooftops as well, sitting in a pub in Rutherglen today you would think only celtic had historical cold abuse claims against them, the smsm is to blame for that IMHO
child,not cold,sorry
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1233069450917793793
Delighted to confirm that Neil Doncaster, chief executive of the SPFL, will be our guest on @POF_POD
next week. If you have any questions on Scottish Football Finances please send to Questions@PriceOfFootball.com
…………….
Wonder how many questions will be asked, and how many will be answered.
Cluster One 28th February 2020 at 18:54
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1233069450917793793
Delighted to confirm that Neil Doncaster, chief executive of the SPFL, will be our guest on @POF_POD
next week. If you have any questions on Scottish Football Finances please send to Questions@PriceOfFootball.com
…………….
Wonder how many questions will be asked, and how many will be answered.
=================================
I know Auldheid had asked a couple via twitter. I have also emailed another three.
Doncaster is a lawyer: he'll already have his answers prepared… regardless of the questions submitted.
Nothing will be accidentally shared with the audience.
https://purefitbaw.com/2020/02/26/the-pyramid-conundrum/
………………
Interesting read.
https://www.facebook.com/1586730747/posts/10218953754266628/?d=n
How it all started.
John Clark 28th February 2020 at 17:48
upthehoops 28th February 2020 at 16:25
'..but there is not one single other club in Scotland holding the moral high ground, that's also for sure.'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%
And the lying and cheating was not even 'necessary'.
It is quite impossible to accept that everybody in Scottish football governance really believed that TRFC would not draw the same volume of support from its 40K plus season tickets sales and walk-up supporters if the SFA played it straight , applied the rules that had applied to everybody else for generations, and stated plainly that the new club they were (fairly generously, perhaps) admitting into football for the first time was not RFC of 1872, and could not possibly claim to be so by passing over a few quid to 'buy' sporting merit and entitlements.
No, however much they may have mumped and moaned and marched to Hampden, if the SFA had stood firm in truth and sporting honour,TRFC would just have had to accept the truth, and the supporters would not have off their own noses to spite their faces.
It seems to me that the need to cause agitation and trouble and threats stemmed from the need to get a public share offer issued, based on 'continuity'.
Public acknowledgement by the SFA that TRFC was not the most successful club in world football might have made such share offer decidedly unsuccessful.
I believe that the deceit really only mattered to the people who wanted to make money out of another football club's achievements, and the SFA helped them by disregarding rules, especially the rues of common sense.
Very few 'Rangers supporters' would have turned their back on the fledgling club, and would instead have lavished even more support : what the new club stands for emotionally is the same as what the dead club stood for.
Correcting the record books to restore truth would not have changed that!
And the SFA and the other clubs must have known that, but chickened out regardless.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The deceit did only matter to the people who wanted to make money from the wreckage of Oldco and this goes back to your complaint to the FCA. The deceit was necessary to raise the funds in an IPO because investors would see the history, honours etc etc which made it a more attractive prospect.
The IPO would have been part of the early planning and the SFA must have been aware of this because they would need to have assessed the financial viablity of the TRFC going forward. What is interesting is where the money came from to plug the gap prior to the IPO.
Yes the fans would have supported a Phoenix club, as I would have had my club gone that way, but running a Rangers costs a lot and needed more than fans money. They had been asked before by Murray in 2005 to step up to the plate but responded poorly. Wealthy Rangers men who could have assisted stood back because the club was and remains toxic.
Cluster One 28th February 2020 at 21:31
https://purefitbaw.com/2020/02/26/the-pyramid-conundrum/
………………
Interesting read.
=================================
I’ve been following the story fairly closely, so had already read the linked article.
We are getting very close to the point when the Juniors will know what is on offer to them in the pyramid, but they won’t be joining it as an autonomous entity, which is what the blazers of the SJFA wanted.
The Lowland League and East of Scotland Football League decided to break the impasse, by inviting clubs to intimate their interest in joining a newly created West of Scotland Football league at tier 6, equivalent to the East of Scotland Premier Division.
The LL and EOSFL set a deadline of 1 March for notes of interest. The suggestion is that 30 clubs, mainly junior with the odd amateur side, have already expressed interest. The LL has indicated that, based of the level of interest, they will respond with more detailed plans by 6 March, e.g. multiple conference leagues at Tier 6, or seeded divisions based on current rankings at tiers 6,7, or even 8. They will then invite formal applications, which will have a deadline of 31 March.
There are currently 63 West Region Junior clubs. I personally expect that half of them will switch from the Juniors to the “seniors” at a minimum. It is entirely possible that the majority will seek to switch if all their local rivals do so. If not, some clubs could fold or go amateur. I guess it will all depend on numbers going or staying and the viability of any remaining leagues.
There are of course Junior clubs outside the West Region. Five East Junior clubs, Thornton, Lochgelly, Kennoway, Kirkcaldy and Rosyth have already applied to join the EOSFL next season (at tier 7), with the possibility of more to follow. That will leave the East Region with mainly Tayside and West Lothian clubs. The Tayside clubs have the added issue of geography to consider. According to the rules of the Highland and Lowland Leagues, clubs north of the Tay Bridge are in the Highland League catchment area and those south of it are in the Lowland League are. There would be no point in Carnoustie or Lochee applying to join the EOSFL, as they would be ineligible for promotion to the LL by geography, unless the boundary line is moved.
That boundary line may be tested at the end of the season if Brechin City loses the play off. Under current rules they should be relegated to the Highland League, which may not be their favoured option, as I believe that most of their players are based in the central belt.
There is no current feeder to the Highland League, but I understand that they are in talks with both the North Region Juniors (mainly North East clubs) and the North Caledonian League (mainly North of Inverness and North West clubs),
Whatever happens, the “senior” leagues will look very different next season.
Further to my post above, coincidentally the West Region Juniors FA sent out the following email to its member clubs, earlier this evening.
For anyone the has been close to what has been going on, it looks like a last desperate appeal to keep the Juniors together rather than allow clubs to choose what is in their best interests. Considering resolutions outside the jurisdiction of the football authorities? ……….. sounds like a threat of legal action. Maybe they’ll end up at CAS before TRFC.
Dear All
Pyramid
Following the Scottish Junior F.A. statement of the 14th February 2020, the West Junior F.A. would confirm their direct engagement with George Fraser Chairman of the Lowland League. A meeting was held on Wednesday 19th February where the WJFA representatives presented a number of proposals for the Lowland League to consider in order to open up further meaningful discussions in order to reach a mutually beneficial solution.
It is with bitter disappointment that we report our proposals have been rejected. We see the WJFA structure as a perfect bespoke solution to meet the Lowland League plans for the creation of a West of Scotland League which would fill the Pyramid void in the geographical West of the country.
Contrary to some opinion the SJFA have throughout pyramid discussions played a proactive approach within the Pyramid Working Group (PWG), we have not walked away and are always willing to re-open talks. Despite numerous agreements/statements including definitive conclusions by the Scottish FA these have failed to be followed through and released within the public domain. These will released in due course. All Junior Clubs should feel badly let down that we have yet to be included within the SFA’s blue print for “Pyramid” more especially when this had been previously agreed. This has not been the fault of the SJFA or the WJFA.
We have other options at our disposal and will implement these from today.
We would advise all clubs that at this time they should keep their options open with regard to “Expressions of Interest”, this in no way has to be regarded as “raising the white flag”, far from it. It is to safe guard our member clubs in their desire to join the pyramid. It would be remiss of the West Junior F.A. not to advise on the foregoing.
We can assure all member clubs that our resolve remains steadfast and that all that can be done will be done to ensure “no one is left behind”. It may be that the determination outcome lies outside the football authorities jurisdiction. A step we will consider if required to do so.
West Junior F.A
Should UEFA instigate disciplinary proceedings about the singing about Fuck The Pope; Ditto The Vatican; Famines being over; historic Child Abuse; WASPism, No Pope Of Rome, views on all Catholic Priests and any number of other chants which may of themseves be inoffensive but by the addition of what have come to be called “add-ons” (mostly if not all consisting of words involved in the original repertoire) are at least, if not more, offensive.
It’s not complicated. Scotlands Courts ruled over ten years ago these chants were racist and sectarian. The Courts didn’t have to go to the last refuge of the scoundrel and have a mealy-mouthed; weaselly-worded debate on whether some views were/are offensive. The Courts were clear: of course they were and they still are. Even if it were otherwise a Not Proven on a Breach of the Peace isn’t much of a victory measured against a conviction of Guilty on a Murder Charge.
The evidence is in plain sight. The audio/visual transmission is there including Alex Rage commenting that the fans were in “fine voice”. It’s good that Mr Rage is not going down Super Salary Suberb Gardener’s excuse of you can’t hear anything in the dugout or another pundit’s excuse that headphones mean you can’t hear what’s being sung. Mr Rage heard because if he hadn’t he wouldn’t have remarked on it and he not only heard it he formed the opinion the chants were not blameworthy. It seems, instead, like the Sashes he sees at his Sash Bashes (whatever they are but I’m guessing he doesn’t pay his own way to go to Leicester; doesn’t pay to get in and does it all for Charidee) their colours they are fine.
EBT debt may be troublesome but when you’ve picked up over half a million quid taxfree on top of your wages/salary etc and then seem to land a gig everywhere mangling the English (and the Scots) language to be a BFDJ Tribute Act some basic rules should apply. I have no problem with the lower level mendacity and rank incompetence; Old Firm, history going back to, um, mair thun ate yeers, the boay’s dun good, the ba’s in their hauf and they should huv went and heided it commensurate with whit’s paramount with the earlier caveat in manipulating their strategy cause ‘at’s whit you should dae wi’ they things.
It was noticeable a few weeks back when on Radio Clyde Gordon Dalziel openly exposed what many of us had previously suspected. Mr Rage often prefaces his seemingly up to date footballing knowledge with “I think…” and then narrates a team’s recent win/lose; goals for/against etc. Mr Dalziel repeated/paraphrased Mr Rage’s words “You think?… You mean you’ve Googled and you’re now reading off a computer screen? That’s not “I think”…”
Still sad to think they’re both getting paid for this sort of level of punditry or guruness or whatever it’s supposed to be.
Given the Broadcasting Guidelines (which can be viewed; they’re filed just beside the Five Way Agreement) Mr Rage has given his warm approval to chants about people who weren’t present to defend themselves. This, we and Michael Stewart have been told, is not fair and balanced broadcasting. All parties must be given a right of reply to Mr Rage’s views, or as they now seem to be called if you are vexed by them “rant” and no doubt Mr Rage will be able to show his “remorse” and profer his “apology”. Not to us of course. To IQ72; to GASH; to Jabba (Level5PR-We’re only a stones throw away); to the Liquidation Denial adherents busy making plans to get to an away fixture in Germany before finding out if they’ll be permitted to get to sit in their own seat at the home fixture.
I look forward to Mr Rage overcoming his natural shyness and favouring us with an explanation. Then we can have the views of the co-commentator Rob McLean who agreed with Mr Rage and later upped the ante with a reference to the visiting fans being “in fine tune”. Then BT can give their views…
Of course in reality I see little of this happening but I do see German football fans being subjected to songs about WWII; Bombers; Brexit; Red Hands of Ulster (which are nothing like Nazi salutes) and Britannia Waiving The Rules. I can also envisage T’Rangers having to release a Statement bemoaning the fact that their innocent, scallywaggery behaviour has been taken the wrong way by their visitors/hosts (ban permitting). I can also see Mr Rage saying he agrees, more investment on its way, next trophy will be number 55 even though they’ve never won any so far and Mr King, who has left/is leaving has sorted/will sort it and does anyone want to buy DFS Fredo? (Discount applies only until the end of Lent when price reverts to previous price-ie whatever anyone’ll pay plus 10% sell on fee less fines imposed for yellow/red cards/off field wrestling with P.Is. At his next move T’Rangers might get a bill.
Scotland needs a strong Hearts.
Just for one day.
One of the problems that is heading the way of the current cobbled together pyramid system is the growing imbalance between the two halves of the current Highland and Lowland Leagues play off.
It is currently Highland v Lowland and there already is a population imbalance between the less populated north versus much of the rest of the country.
When the Glasgow and Ayrshire junior teams pile in the imbalance gets worse.
Politics are everywhere.
Add that to the fact that there is no automatic relegation from SPFL League 2 (because of a last minute double cross a few years ago) and the system is progressing at a snails pace.
And its a pity because while all the media, political, SPFL and SFA focus is on the top league and the overwhelmingly dominant Glasgow duopoly, the real future for healthy football in Scotland is local with community clubs as the foundation for everything else.
StevieBC 28th February 2020 at 21:13
'….Doncaster is a lawyer ……Nothing will be accidentally shared with the audience.2
%%%%%%%%%
I'm not familiar with the world of 'podcasting.
I assume it is not live radio, but a recording.
I therefore assume that the final version that is made public contains responses only to pre-arranged , agreed 'questions' [with no scope for surprise grilling in proper journalistic style ], and that even then, the responses made to such questions will be subject to editing and amendment ,by the guest speaker, of any slip of the tongue that betrays that the real truth is being concealed under a load of PR crap and spin.
I may, of course, be wrong and Doncaster may have a Damascene conversion and agree to tell us the full, unadulterated truth about the 5-Way Agreement and why the Lie was felt to be necessary if such questions were to be put to him.
But I will not be holding my breath.
Finloch 29th February 2020 at 08:11
One of the problems that is heading the way of the current cobbled together pyramid system is the growing imbalance between the two halves of the current Highland and Lowland Leagues play off.
It is currently Highland v Lowland and there already is a population imbalance between the less populated north versus much of the rest of the country.
When the Glasgow and Ayrshire junior teams pile in the imbalance gets worse.
Politics are everywhere.
Add that to the fact that there is no automatic relegation from SPFL League 2 (because of a last minute double cross a few years ago) and the system is progressing at a snails pace.
And its a pity because while all the media, political, SPFL and SFA focus is on the top league and the overwhelmingly dominant Glasgow duopoly, the real future for healthy football in Scotland is local with community clubs as the foundation for everything else.
====================================
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments and they relate to a couple of questions that I emailed for the "price of football" podcast with Neil Doncaster.
I think that in time we will see the pyramid regionalise further at Tier 5 with a Lowland League West. The main blocking factor for that at the moment is the lack of licenced clubs in the West of Scotland. Assuming the the ambitious West clubs follow the lead of the former East Juniors, it should only take a couple of years for sufficient clubs to get their SFA licence and be eligible to play at tier 5. A further 6 clubs in the EOSFL had their licence applications approved this week, Bo'ness, Camelon, Haddington, Tranent, Dunipace and Newtongrange.
The alternative would be to regionalise at a higher level, should the SPFL resurrect the SPFL1 and 2 plans with maybe 30-32 clubs. That would see the SPFL become a mainly a home for full time clubs. The part time clubs in Tayside or the North East could join a league with the best of the Highland League sides, with the part time clubs in the central belt joining up with the best of the Lowland League sides.
The vested interests of the lower lights in the SPFL L1 and L2 may kybosh the latter option though, but in reality they are all community clubs, that don't have the financial muscle to progress much further than where the currently sit.
It is unusual for countries the size of Scotland to have as many as 42 clubs in national leagues, before regionalisation kicks in.
easyJambo 28th February 2020 at 23:29
……………..
Thanks for that
LUGOSI 29th February 2020 at 05:10
The evidence is in plain sight. The audio/visual transmission is there including Alex Rage commenting that the fans were in “fine voice”. It’s good that Mr Rage is not going down Super Salary Suberb Gardener’s excuse of you can’t hear anything in the dugout
……………….
Has Mr I i never played for the money. just done a SG. And thrown the ibrox fan base under a bus?
The undernoted article has just been published on pitpass.com, an F1 site. You may find some of the actions and implications alarmingly familiar. Why would Ferrari escape punishment – and be treated with such kid gloves – when someone like McLaren gets thrown to the wolves (a £100m fine for industrial espionage transgressions)?
Money and influence of course. “F1 needs a strong Ferrari”? Nothing like transparency. In fact, nothing like transparency. As someone said in connection with a very serious matter in another ‘sport’ :
“On any view the matters involved in this case are as serious offences against the ordinary standards of corporate governance as one could imagine. The Tribunal attempted in its exercise of fixing these matters on the scale of offences to identify a more serious offence than those on the complaints, and concluded that only match-fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach.”
FIA agrees controversial settlement with Ferrari
“At a time Racing Point is raising eyebrows in the F1 paddock over the legality of its car, a curious statement from the FIA in relation to Ferrari is sure to spark further controversy.
“The FIA announces that, after thorough technical investigations, it has concluded its analysis of the operation of the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit and reached a settlement with the team,” said the sport’s governing body in a statement issued in the final moments of pre-season testing.
“The specifics of the agreement will remain between the parties,” it added.
“The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 Power Units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels.”
The statement relates to investigations into Ferrari’s 2019 power unit which looked set to dominate the second half of the season until the FIA was forced to issue a number of technical directives after Red Bull – and others – questioned its legality.
Though Ferrari insisted the power unit was legal, the team’s performance subsequently dropped off, in some cases quite alarmingly.
However it is the fact that the “specifics of the agreement will remain private” between the FIA and Ferrari and that both parties have “reached a settlement” that is certain to cause reaction from rivals, for the failure to give any further insight clearly suggests that there was an issue with the legality of the power unit.
The core of the issue was fuel flow, with rivals claiming that the Maranello outfit was using a fuel sensor which allowed more fuel to be delivered to the power unit. At a time Max Verstappen openly accused Ferrari of “cheating”, the only time the Italian team was hauled up before the stewards was in Abu Dhabi when the team was fined €50,000 for incorrectly declaring how much fuel was on board Charles Leclerc’s car.”
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath (and Hearts).
redlichtie, there could be further parallels between F1 and European footy/superclubs?
It seems it's just a matter of time before there is European/World league – or franchise – for the global footy superclubs.
And as we see already in the CL group stages in particular – it will eventually become boring as hell to watch, IMO.
Likewise, I used to love watching F1 and attended a few races in the past…but in recent years it's been boring as hell, IMO.
All about marketing and money.
F1 was infinitely more exciting when even Nigel Mansell was driving…
redlichtie 29th February 2020 at 11:10 29
‘As someone said in connection with a very serious matter in another ‘sport’ :
“On any view the matters involved in this case are as serious offences against the ordinary standards of corporate governance as one could imagine. The Tribunal attempted in its exercise of fixing these matters on the scale of offences to identify a more serious offence than those on the complaints, and concluded that only match-fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach.”
%%%%%%%%%%%%
It is still unbelievable, redlichtie, that that incredibly monstrous cheating was not only not punished in any degree proportionate to the scale of it, but that the very Governance body’s deceitfulness and cheating exceeded it in gravity, poisoning the sport that they are meant to safeguard.
As said before, one cheating club is one cheating club and honest men can deal with it.
A cheating Governance body is a horse of a different colour entirely, away off the scale of corruption altogether, the very negation of all that Sport is about.
The ‘blazer and tie’ of the SFA (and any equivalent that the SPFL sports) combine as a badge of shame when worn by the scoundrels who manufactured and continue to propagate the Big Lie.
Scottish Football needs a cull of the dishonest, deceitful men in football governance .
LUGOSI 29th February 2020 at 05:10
"…Britannia Waiving The Rules…"
That's a belter, Lugosi, and needs to be recognised in isolation.
I suspect the standard of Scottish refereeing might be a hot topic this weekend.
Oh dear.
Come Monday morning the TRFC players could be queuing up to dish out some training ground retribution to a certain Colombian teammate…
Gerrard will be earning his managerial stripes if he can keep everything together for their next EL match.
Ex Ludo 29th February 2020 at 18:35 I suspect the standard of Scottish refereeing might be a hot topic this weekend.
_________________
Well, we won, so no sour grapes from me, but I presume it's the Hearts v TRFC match you are referring to. I'll start by saying the referee made bloomers in both directions but, the most ludicrous went only in one direction. There were an absolute barrowload of howlers, but the worst came with two consecutive plays, and their the aftermath, within 2 minutes.
A ball into the TRFC box was clearly handled, not once but twice, the ball going from the defender's upper arm then batted out with his hand/wrist. Decision given, corner. Cue much anger from the Hearts players, but, of course, once the decision is made there's no changing the decision.
Next, and it came as a complete surprise to me, we discover VAR must have been introduced to our game. Hearts take the corner, and Damour diverts the ball into the net and the ref gives the goal. He is surrounded by a mob in blue but appears adamant and points to the half-way line again, waving away the players, who don't go away. Then, I presume, he got word that TV evidence showed Damour had thrown the ball into the net with both hands, or, at least, that the goal shouldn't stand and indicated a free kick. Hearts were incensed, but, unbelievably, the TRFC players continued to shout and gesticulate at him
.
Now, the goal should never have been given, it was clear handball, but what on earth caused the ref to change his mind, especially in light of the fact he was immovable for what was a clear penalty two minutes earlier. I don't know. Maybe he got a call from the linesman who was in a much worse position than the ref to see it, and he missed an easier one (much less restricted view) for him to see with the penalty.
But whatever it was that made him change his mind, I doubt we'll ever hear the truth.
Now, did he get a call (from somewhere) that it had been deliberate handball by the previously booked Damour? Or was he just instructed not to give the goal? For he compounded the debacle by not booking Damour, who would then have been sent off, and deliberate handball, as even our refs must know, is an automatic booking. Unless there's something to show that, uncaught by the camera, the linesman had immediately put his flag up for handball I will find it extremely difficult to believe whatever excuse is handed out by the suits for this one.
Congratulations Aj.
I guess this latest officiating shambles will simply be added to the ever growing list of officiating shambles in Scottish football?
Nothing learned by the Scottish Referees Association, and it's just carry on as normal… and no, they don't need VAR!
On a more positive note.
That's two defeats in a month or so that TRFC have suffered from the bottom team in the Premiership, and sandwiched in between those two defeats they've twice beaten a fancied European club in Braga.
Maybe Scottish football isn't so bad after all!
But crivens, just think of the consequences for TRFC if Braga had done to them on Wednesday night what Hearts did to them tonight!
Further to my earlier posts about the pyramid below the SPFL, the West Region Junior FA appears to have gone solo in order to keep its club structure intact, but inside the pyramid. They have applied to the SFA to set up a WOSFL themselves (a rebrand?). The following email was sent out earlier today to their member clubs.
Unfortunately for the WRJFA, it's not the SFA that runs its leagues, it's the league associations themselves, e.g. the SPFL, HL, LL and SoSFL and SoSFL.
There is also the problem that the LL, EoSFL and SoSFL would have to agree to make changes to their play-off arrangements if the WRJFA was successful. The LL and EoSFL have already rejected the SJFA's attempt to retain it's autonomy within the pyramid structure.
Perhaps we'll end up with two WoSFLs, one run by the WRJFA and the other by the LL…….. perish the thought.
Is Gerrard considering his future at Ibrox? It certainly seems possible going by his comments to Rnagers TV after the game.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1233858335713173506
Rangers have previously been charged under disciplinary rule 204, which states a club must ensure that all players and staff "conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times during and/or after a match".
I have only seen photos from this evenings game but they suggest to me that further charges are likely to be forthcoming!
EJ, link not working or the tweet has been pulled.
easyJambo 29th February 2020 at 21:35
Is Gerrard considering his future at Ibrox? It certainly seems possible going by his comments to Rangers TV after the game.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1233858335713173506
=====================================
Apologies. There was an extra “space” or “ :” on the end of the first link.
This one works
https://twitter.com/RangersFC/status/1233858335713173506
adam812 29th February 2020 at 21:36
Rangers have previously been charged under disciplinary rule 204, which states a club must ensure that all players and staff "conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times during and/or after a match”
Adam, nothing counts on leap years. ‘Stuff’ happened in 2012 and apparently this year was exempt.
Gawd, we need to get over it otherwise we might believe it!
#liquidation
Any money made reaching the next stage of europe has been cancelled out by not reaching the scottish cup final and finishing the season trophyless?
Great to see Michael Stewart back on Sportscene.
That is all.
EJ, cheers for that. SG sounds despondent. If it wasn't for Europe I think he would have walked after that display today. Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and hopefully Celtic, has the making of a cracking semi-final contest.
Am I the only one that hopes that St J win tomorrow to set up a non Old Firm cup final – obviously the sponsors won’t be happy, but I believe it’ll be good for Scottish football as a whole
PS sounds like Stevie G is considering his position ….
jimbojimbo 29th February 2020 at 23:07 1 0 Rate This EJ, cheers for that. SG sounds despondent. If it wasn't for Europe I think he would have walked after that display today. Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and hopefully Celtic, has the making of a cracking semi-final contest. « Older 1 … 12 13 14
___________
Just out of pure devilment
, but imagine if it's not Celtic in the semi! Can you imagine the bear meltdown? They'd be viewing it as the biggest missed opportunity ever, with lost much needed income, and, in their minds, a lost certain (first) trophy.
In truth, tonight's result will will have taken the gloss from the Braga results, as even they must realise the Scottish Cup was their last hope of outdoing Celtic in any competition this season – and for all we know, forever.
Menace 29th February 2020 at 23:24
"…but I believe it’ll be good for Scottish football as a whole."
%%%%%%%%%%%%
Not a wise choice of words, Menace, to use to support an otherwise perfectly valid observation.
Others who have used those words have destroyed any real faith in the integrity of the game by their concerted efforts to justify their betrayal of sporting integrity!
Menace
Yes, you are
Menace 29th February 2020 at 23:24
Am I the only one that hopes that St J win tomorrow to set up a non Old Firm cup final – obviously the sponsors won’t be happy, but I believe it’ll be good for Scottish football as a whole
PS sounds like Stevie G is considering his position ….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No you are not and I agree an non Old Firm cup final would be good for the game.
Gerrard is out of order slaughtering his players yet again in the media. Megabucks spent and no success. Its not looking good for him. If TRFC could afford it they would sack him and that's what his moaning in the media is hoping to achieve, but they can't
Homunculus 29th February 2020 at 22:30
'…Great to see Michael Stewart back on Sportscene.
That is all."
%%%%%%%%
Except, of course , that I think we ought to know a wee bit more of why he was bumped, and why he can now be re-instated?
This arbitrary kind of behaviour by the BBC has to be questioned.
The Perfect Storm.
Another season without winning anything.
Gerrard giving interviews and signalling his stress/frustration levels as he frantically scratches at his head – as if ravaged by 'Rangers hating' nits.
TRFC's best / most valuable player has taken the p!ss with another extended jolly to Colombia – and managed to scoff all the pies whilst he was there!
A squad which apparently was already unsettled due to goings on at Dubai – allegedly involving a certain Colombian player – will be, erm, more unsettled today. A proper, good, old fashioned, 'clear the air' punch up is evidently required.
The bears are teetering on self combustion en masse.
AND
Off the field, everybody and their dug are suing RIFC, the team might have to play in their training bibs next season…and they have no cash… and still no Interims.
Shouldn't gloat really… too much…
Couldn't happen to a nicer club/company/thingy.
No mention of coin thrown at Hearts keeper??
Must be other more important stuff to report.
A funny week on the rangers forums. Despair and anger after St Johnstone draw then joy and triumph after midweek European results. Very angry again today after Scottish cup exit
(Semi final draw is Hearts v Hibs and Celtic v Aberdeen btw)
Bill1903, funnily enough I was thinking that line up myself! The media would love it.
Allyjambo@20.25 yesterday
I watched the first half yesterday evening and a number of weird decisions had already been made, not least the leniency shown to Ryan Jack and a failure to play advantage when Hearts were in a promising attacking position. As it turned out the incompetency continued in the second half but the final result and subsequent fall out will now deflect from a really poor refereeing performance.
'Ex Ludo 1st March 2020 at 10:19
…As it turned out the incompetency continued in the second half but the final result and subsequent fall out will now deflect from a really poor refereeing performance.'
###################
I've just watched the HoMFC TRFC highlights on Sportscene.
That wasn't 'a really poor refereeing performance' as a one-off, remarkable occurrence: that was a bog-standard, bang-average, run-of-the-mill, seemingly acceptable by the SFA, current standard performance seen at grounds around Scotland every week.
Scottish football deserves (and requires) better than that. Whither the new broom that is Crawford Allan, Head of Referee Operations?
Once again the roller coaster comedy that is Rangers* continues to dumbfound,frustrate,entertain and leave most of the audience in a state of disbelief . Gerrard has publicly hung Morelos out to dry after Morelos decided he was bigger than the club, which after many months of being told he was worth 20/30/40m by their chief propagandist is hardly a surprise. Interested parties will compare him to other SPL players and see that Cosgrove and Doidge have 11 SPL goals, Morelos has 12 and French Eddie has 21 , they will then look at disciplinary matters and how he conducts himself on and off the pitch . The fact he has been publicly bollocked by his manager would alarm most suitors to what is going on in private. Cosgrove or Morelos ? bit of a no brainer for me , how much is Cosgrove worth ? I would be staggered if anyone bids more than 5m for Morelos not least because his agent has already hinted about a low release price in his contract.
Gerrard is now considering his future , to walk away due to a QF Scottish Cup defeat while there is still a last 16 Europa tie to be fought would be a poor signal to send to future employers. Midweek sees what should be a safe 3 pts at home v Hamilton while Celtic have a very tricky away game at Livi. If the gap can be narrowed it may breathe new belief back into his squad. The crunch period comes mid month, home v Leverkusen then home v Celtic followed by the return in Germany in the space of 8 days . Gerrard looks every inch a broken man , it's a gamble to stay and further damage his credentials and it's a gamble to walk away and be labelled a bottler. The Board can't afford to sack him and can't afford to replace him with anyone but Murty and McAlister , the question is will the fans turn up for their STs with either of those 2 in charge ?
Timtim
I can see morelos doing what hooper done after leaving celtic, sitting on various benches around england
With the benefit of hindsight…
Phil's latest is suggesting that Morelos had a deal with TRFC – to be sold in January – but after the CFC win he was told the deal was off: hence he took the huff and there was hassle in Dubai.
Now, that sort of behaviour would have been a wide open secret at Dubai, and then at Murray Park and Ibrox. None of the so called 'better' SMSM journalists mentioned anything at all, so Traynor did his normal, bullying job presumably and kept a lid on it?
So, where does that leave Lambogate and Translationgate?
We thought it was a blatant PR strategy to make it seem that Morelos had 'been forced out of Scotland' and TRFC had no option but to sell him, reluctantly.
Yet, today Phil is writing that Morelos was not actually for sale.
What if the purpose of the nonsense PR was actually to generate some sympathy for Morelos – but amongst his own team mates?
If he had already p!ssed off his teammates in Dubai and was not co-operating with Gerrard because TRFC had – in his mind anyway – screwed him over, then Gerrard was looking at having his best player downing tools and disrupting the squad for the remainder of the season.
If Morelos and his family were in some sort of danger – like someone trying to tinker with your car – then your colleagues would typically rally round and give you support.
…but then again, Morelos misses the SC game at Hearts for being late back – again – so there's only one way to sort it out now: "FIIIIIIGHT!!!"
Bogs Dollox 1st March 2020 at 00:00
‘…Gerrard is out of order slaughtering his players yet again in the media.’
%%%%%%%%%%%
The really remarkable thing about Gerrard’s interview was that there was no sign of James Traynor.
I think back to the Pedro interview , with Traynor lurking threateningly in the background, and balefully cutting it short and hustling Pedro off-stage when Traynor thought the questioning had gone off message.
What has happened? Has Traynor been given his jotters?
Or has there been a realisation at Board level that the best PR aims at winning minds and hearts( no pun intended), and that the King-type aggressively and offensively blustering approach cuts no ice in those stakes? Is a degree of sanity beginning to emerge among members of the Board, such as allows them to permit some plain, honest speaking to a manager who , in fact, has (at this stage, only probably) not achieved the heart’s desire of TRFC’s support?
Earning a few millions by being in the last 16 of the EL is to his credit, certainly. But perhaps the Board believes that Gerrard really has not got what it takes to turn TRFC into anything like the defunct club they claim it to be;
and are giving Gerrard plenty of scope to work his way to a relatively cheap departure from Ibrox by friendly, mutual consent and good wishes for the future..?
The chaps on Sportsound this afternoon were crediting Gerrard with ‘principle’ because he disciplined Morelos by not playing him yesterday.
Far be it from me to dismiss ‘acting on principle’ , but instant disciplinary action in the knowledge that you’re only weakening your already weakened team immediately before really important match suggests a rashness and inopportune exercise of principle.
Morelos might have made a huge difference.
His disciplining could have waited, and Gerrard showed a catastrophic lack of judgment that to me probably indicates that at present he is not of first class calibre as a manager, and perhaps will never be.
John Clark
If you want to keep a dressing room you have to treat everyone the same otherwise it will end up chaos
tony 1st March 2020 at 15:54
'..you have to treat everyone the same otherwise it will end up chaos.'
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I accept that principle, of course, tony.
I wasn't suggesting that Morelos should not be disciplined; simply that punishment of the guilty should be deferred until a time when it would not also be a punishment for the 'innocent'.
Mind you, in the light of what StevieC says in his post at 15.06 above, perhaps with a player as unpredictable and temperamental as Morelos, normal reasoning doesn't apply, even if dealing with him as he deserves might cost you]
John Clark 1st March 2020 at 15:48
PMGB is suggesting that Morelos returned to his homeland, not on compassionate grounds, but in the huff. Twice! Once 'en route' to Dubai and once in the lead up to yesterday's match.
Regardless, though, of the accuracy of PMGB's account (and I'm not questioning it), it does seem more than a little strange that any player would be allowed to travel half-way round the world at a time when the space between the last match and the next one he'd be available for, a very important one, is only six days.
If he did b*gger off in the huff then I'd suggest Gerrard was 100% right to leave him out, for I very much doubt he could be trusted to try a leg, and his fitness would surely be in serious doubt.
Interestingly, unless I've missed it, there's been no word on why he required 'compassionate leave' which is rather strange, there's not even been an attempt to make up a reason, such as family illness/death. Looks to me like the Morelos/TRFC love affair may well be over and the club is resigned to losing him – and not for as much as they (realistically) hoped for.
Strange Billy Nimmo Smith thought more money does not confer a sporting advantage??
As the four wealthiest clubs in Scotland reach the SC Semi Finals
Bogs Dollox 1st March 2020 at 00:00
………………
Maybe they will resign him
Told you semi final draw earlier
When is the draw for ends or do certain teams have their own ends?
Bill1903 1st March 2020 at 09:28
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No mention of coin thrown at Hearts keeper??
…………………
should be in the refs report after the keeper handed him the coin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51697305
StevieBC 1st March 2020 at 15:06
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With the benefit of hindsight…
Phil’s latest is suggesting that Morelos had a deal with TRFC – to be sold in January –
……………..
You can only sell if someone is willing to buy. maybe the deal was off as no one put a bid in.
normanbatesmumfc 1st March 2020 at 17:30
''…Strange Billy Nimmo Smith thought more money does not confer a sporting advantage??'
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I sincerely hope that none of his judgments as an actual judge in Court were so extraordinarily bizarre!
https://twitter.com/dw_sports/status/1233889687841824768?s=21
Dramatic.
Ex Ludo 1st March 2020 at 21:33
https://twitter.com/dw_sports/status/1233889687841824768?s=21
Dramatic.
============================
There have been plenty other similarly offensive banners, sectarian and racist actions by fans in several countries, yet none have generated similar actions by the referees and players. Why?
Ex Ludo
When did a referee get the power to stop a game for a banner, ridiculous imho
easyJambo 1st March 2020 at 21:39
‘..sectarian and racist actions by fans in several countries, yet none have generated similar actions by the referees and players. Why? ‘
%%%%%%%%%
As I understand the rubbishy reporting, Hopp is being targeted for abuse for football related reasons first and foremost ,as having been allowed the privilege of departing from the norm when it comes to majority ownership of a club ,as part of an attack on the German equivalent of the SFA for its readiness to accommodate the equivalent of an SDM or MBMB!
It is , of course, abhorrent that the attack should have racist or whatever characteristics. Whatever Hopp may have done ‘wrong’ in football business he will have done as an individual human baddie, not because he may be a ‘foreigner’ or of another ‘ethnicity’; any more than SDM’s cheating was because he is a Scotsman!
[And I have to say that I have a wee grudge against Karl Heinz Rummennige : not because he’s German, but because he is ill-mannered enough not to reply to my letter to him of some considerable time ago, questioning why ,as Chairman of the ECA, he allowed TRFC to be regarded as having been a founder member of that Association]
https://tradingeconomics.com/south-africa/stock-market?embed
https://za.investing.com/equities/micromega-holdings-ltd-chart
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=ZAR&to=GBP&view=1Y
A little insight into the state of the market where King is concerned , the Sth African stock market is down over 11% , his own company Micromega down almost 30% since January and the Rand taking a beating against the £. With King having a 5m loan to RIFC he may be one of the first to call payment should the economic downturn continue to affect his business. Of course he is not alone should the economy worsen , most companies may experience issues if a liquidity crisis occurs. In that scenario institutions stop lending and debts are called in , I'm sure everything will be fine , well reasonably sure .