The “Lawwell Letter” is trending everywhere this week. To elucidate, it is email sent to (among others) Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley of Celtic on 26 July 2012 by SPL CEO Neil Doncaster.
The email came with an attached copy of the Five Way Agreement (hereafter “5WA”, the deal between Sevco, Rangers, the SFA, the SPL and the SFL). Now that it has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.
I would preface my comments with a caveat though. On the face of it, the Celtic Chief Executive appears to have misled the gathering at the recent Celtic AGM. He was asked by a shareholder if Celtic were involved in the Five Way Agreement. Lawwell replied, “No”, and gave same “No” response to the follow up question, “have you seen it?”
Given that a copy of that email was in the possession of a few folk before that AGM, I have to admit to being surprised by that answer – although even more surprised at the apparent lack of due diligence implied by the lack of knowledge of its content.
We have attempted to contact Mr Lawwell to ask him if he would like to comment on the apparent discrepancy between the evidence and his answer (and I am sure we are not the only ones to have done so). To date, we have received no response. Given the complete lack of acknowledgement of the existence of this anomaly in the MSM, we should perhaps assume that none will be forthcoming.
Perhaps there is an explanation (yes I know), but Celtic should know, like Rangers old and new have come to realise, that silence on these matters breeds deep suspicion and distrust.
Assuming for the minute that Occam’s Razor applies here, there may be an uncomfortable truth emerging for Celtic fans – that Rangers (old and new) do not have a monopoly on dishonesty. There is also an uncomfortable truth that should emerge for Rangers fans too – that as we have said all along, this has never been about just Rangers, but about the governance of the game.
If the Celtic CEO did lie to the AGM a few weeks ago what are the consequences? He broke no laws as far as I can see. One insider I spoke to said simply this,
“So he lied. So what? What happens now? It’s irrelevant”
That is of course absolutely true. As long as controlling shareholders are happy that Resolution 12 is buried, and that no deep inquiry into governance is held into the workings of the game in Scotland, the lie is nonpunishable, though it would be a mistake to believe that accountability is confined only to the corporate rules governing Boards and shareholders; the corporate veil of “I was only following company policy” can be readily challenged in the court of public opinion, which has no statute of limitations.
What all this demonstrates of course is that Celtic have been saying one thing to their fans and shareholders, nodding agreement in private meetings about how appalling Rangers behaviour was, tut-tutting over how amateurish the authorities were, and wringing their hands in frustration at what a sham the LNS inquiry turned out to be.
At the same time, they have done nothing, allowed small shareholders to spend not inconsiderable suns progressing the matter, and quietly hoped that the “appetite” for justice would diminish so they could get back to whatever it is they and the rest do when subject to little or no scrutiny.
Whilst ten in a row is on the table of course, they can get away with it. To Celtic fans right now, understandably, nothing else matters. But what if TIAR is derailed? Not a stretch to imagine that the Parkhead kitchen could get uncontrollably hot in that circumstance. And when the TIAR squirrel finally ends its scurry, in either success or failure, where will the fans attention be diverted?
Perhaps the arrogance that permits making (allegedly) false statements to a general meeting, and (allegedly) misleading shareholders over Res 12 is borne of the knowledge that the parachutes are ready to be deployed when either of the above scenarios come to pass? If TIAR is achieved or goes south, are they already prepared for an emergency exit?
Celtic have two major shareholders whose combined holding is over 50% of the club’s shares. Dermot Desmond and Nick Train. Desmond is now in his eighth decade and Train is reportedly having some business difficulties. Both may well be moved to get out anyway, but fan unrest would make their decision a whole lot easier.
And Lawwell himself is – if you believe the MSM – on the wanted list of nearly as many top clubs as Alfredo Morelos.
The foregoing of course is extremely “Old Firm” centric, and as the two biggest clubs in the country they certainly have the biggest impact on the game, culturally, socially and financially. However there is no get-out clause here for others.
We KNOW there is evidence of fraud surrounding the licencing issue in 2012. We KNOW there is evidence of a cover up over that, and the EBT-related registration issues for Old Rangers. We KNOW that the Five Way Agreement was signed by football authorities in the knowledge that it would rob their own rules of judicial authority with regard to compliance by RFC prior to 2012.
We also know that NOT ONE club has taken a meaningful stand against any of it.
Clubs are saying one thing to supporters and doing their best to derail those supporters’ efforts on the other. We can also infer (not unreasonably) that the folk who run the clubs think that we as fans have no right to interfere in how they run their operations.
As I said earlier, Celtic can do what they like whilst TIAR is live, but afterwards, however it ends, the fans and shareholders involved in Res 12 will still be asking questions. Celtic in particular know how fatal it can be to alienate their own fan base – a fan base that has flexed its muscles with devastating effect for the boardroom in the past. And it is the wrath of the fans of all clubs that will eventually see the charlatans get their just desserts.
Our job as fans is to continue to hold those who care little for the honour and beauty of football to account, to continue to press them on their refusal to deal with arguably the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history.
The bottom line (which is of course what the folk in boardrooms care about) is this. They need us far more than we need them. As fans of different clubs, the sensibility of those of us at SFM recognises that the real battle, the real war, is not between rival fans or rival clubs, but between the arrogant, self-entitled clique who run our game; who lie for fun, who cheat and belittle the sport; and the good folk who make it possible for the game to prosper.
Resolution 12 is not just about Rangers – nor is it just about Celtic. It deserves to be embraced by every true football fan in the country. The Res 12 franchise needs to widened
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
Highlander 31st January 2020 at 12:58
'…With respect JC, you say that speculation is irrelevant before speculating that Celtic wouldn't be treated as Rangers were.'
++++++++++++
That's a fair cop, Highlander. I misdirected myself.
My defence is that ,while I am incandescent with rage at Celtic's refusal in 2012 to take a stand on principle that RFC of 1872 should have been formally expelled from football and stripped of its foully obtained titles and honours, and that CG's new club should have been (and should still be) declared to be a new club etc etc, I cannot accept that there is any equivalence between the evil perpetrated by the SFA (and before that, by SDM) and the weakness demonstrated by Celtic plc (and all the other clubs! bar RR) in Scottish professional football in failing to deal properly with that evil.
There are degrees of wickedness!
John Clark 30th January 2020 at 23:46
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Smugas 29th January 2020 at 12:07
‘…
Sorry JC @ 09.18 I dont buy that.
Were investors genuinely bothered about the continuity thing? ….
..Anyone with a financial hat on knew and knows damn fine what liquidation is and what it meant. The current investors are just as aware.’
++++++++++++++++++
I’m coming late to your post, Smugas, and apologise accordingly.
I think you are correct in asserting that the general run of people who have money to invest have some street savvy, and that those who in fact were the big investors in RIFC plc are more than street savvy!
The basic point I was making, and tried to make to the FCA [still haven’t had a reply from them to tell me I am wrong!] is that the IPO prospectus clearly suggested that investors in RIFC plc would be investing in a company which was to make its money from running the most successful football club of all time, Rangers of 140 years of history of sporting achievement.
It’s the FCA’s job to ensure that Prospectuses [Prospecti?] are so written as not to be misleading to Joe Public. They know that the sharks in the investment world can look after themselves, but they also know that there are millions of potential (albeit small) investors who can be easily misled by cleverly worded references to success and fortune.
And I think that in allowing the RIFC plc IPO Prospectus to be published, the FCA breached their statutory duty to ensure that that there was nothing misleading in it.
……………………..
paddy malarkey 31st January 2020 at 00:32
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John Clark 30th January 2020 at 23:46
The thing is John , if I may be so bold , is that it didn’t state that they were one and the same thing , by my reading . The IPO tells investors all they need to know about RIFC . Then , unasked and out of nowhere gives a hagiography of a different entity (IL) . It was placed there to deliberately confuse , not business investors , but the gullibles who might buy a share or two ,
……………..
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 00:46
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paddy malarkey 31st January 2020 at 00:32
‘..is that it didn’t state that they were one and the same thing , by my reading ‘
+++++++++
I agree.
……………………..
If i remember at the time Green got Ashley on board with the shares. He had a great shirt contract at the time and maybe even a better one if more shares were bought, the shirt deal would more than covered his layout for shares. The ordinary punter seeing a Billionare like Ashley getting on board as a This is a great deal. What i’m getting at is the big investers knew there was money to be made and knew or did not care for the prospectus wording, they knew there was money to be made. But i get JC point that the small investers were being misled as to what they were buying shares in.
Ps if i remember it was £500 for a starter
Cluster One 31st January 2020 at 18:04
If i remember at the time Green got Ashley on board with the shares. He had a great shirt contract at the time and maybe even a better one if more shares were bought, the shirt deal would more than covered his layout for shares. The ordinary punter seeing a Billionare like Ashley getting on board as a This is a great deal. What i’m getting at is the big investers knew there was money to be made and knew or did not care for the prospectus wording, they knew there was money to be made. But i get JC point that the small investers were being misled as to what they were buying shares in.
Ps if i remember it was £500 for a starter
===============================
Ashley made his investment in TRFCL in October 2012, which coincided with JJB Sports going into admin on 24 September 2012, and Sports Direct buying part of the business, assets, the brand (maybe even the history
) on 1st October.
With the 10 year JJB retail deal with RFC plc ending prematurely with 4 years to run, Ashley would have seen the opportunity to get a foot in the door at Ibrox and revive the former JJB deal with Charles Green on different and more favourable terms.
I strongly suspect that Ashley’s investment was opportunistic based on the JJB Sports situation at that moment in time. I’m sure that Ashley’s people would have done their due diligence on JJB’s portfolio of partners and the contractual arrangements.
The £500.
The Gymnastics in this piece are brilliant, no wonder the gullibles parted with their cash. A web site and everything.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223337207232192512/photo/1
easyJambo 31st January 2020 at 19:11
Ashley made his investment in TRFCL in October 2012, which coincided with JJB Sports going into admin on 24 September 2012, and Sports Direct buying part of the business, assets, the brand (maybe even the history blush ) on 1st October.
……………………
And inbetween all that Green was coming near a deal with Adidas;-)
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223343909075636225/photo/1
Earlier this evening on Sportsound David Currie was telling us of the upcoming 'transfer window' programme from 9.00 pm to midnight. He speculated on the possibility of there being a shattering , earth-moving headline story breaking at twenty seconds to midnight, and asked Chick whether he thought there might be.
When Chick reminded himself of the Tore Andre Flo transfer to the now defunct Rangers ( which was, apparently, something of a surprise! ) Currie came back instantly with a 'aye, and see how that ended'.
I laughed out loud! I reckon it ended very badly indeed.
Cluster One 31st January 2020 at 20:10
'..The £500.,'
+++++++++
Once again, Cluster one, you're a great hand at producing contemporary source material relating to current discussion on the blog!
Anyone reading that piece (perhaps the FCA) would definitely read it as indicating that the plan to go to the market was based on conning potential investors into believing they would be investing in a company that would make its money by owning Rangers Football Club of 1872.
It strengthens my readiness to believe that the SFA in effect helped set up what I believe to have been a dishonest IPO prospectus, and were possibly aware of that fact.
Ok it’s quite so i may get away with this.
Feel a bit like Jimbo (what ever happened to him?)
Anyway, every time i log into the blog and see A lie for a lie.
I can’t get this song out of my head, so i should not be the only one tortured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRXPE9QyxvE&w=640&h=360
Apolgies in advance if this seems preachy but if it helps even one reader then job done.
The banning of Brian Rice is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned.Footballers will always bet on games that they think they have more insight to than joe public.The professional sports are always open to insider knowledge and corruption but a savvy punter will factor this as much as possible into the equation. In short the game is rigged…always has been. Do you think Las Vegas exists in the middle of a desert because you have an even chance?..Forget it.Walk up to any fruit machine and it will promise a minimum payout of maybe 90%, this means that you will lose at least 10% of your wallet but usually more due to the flashing lights and music etc.I like to think that sports betting is something where the punter may have an edge due to taking an opinion on an outcome not determined purely by chance.When I place a bet on anything involving human interaction then trying to factor in the impossible fails.EG Lower grade horse racing in this country .The prize money and prestige for winning is negligible but it offers the chance to make money if you are in the know.A day out with friends and small stakes only on anything other than graded races. Compare a class 6 selling handicap at Southwell to the Gold cup at Cheltenham.The connections of the classier race are in it to win it and not make money by laying or planning a 'coup'.In the better races then form,trends and personal interpretation of such things really matters.I bet for fun,always aware of the 'known unknowns' in any outcome and self monitor my habit. I know and accept that in the long term as punter without inside knowledge then I will probably lose. I still do it for the thrill of the occasional win that makes me believe my opinion was validated.I repeat,when I gamble I accept that the stake is far more likely to be lost than returned manyfold.This acceptance is paramount to any attitude to gambling. Don't be fooled by any 'my mate has a gud fing' nonsense.Set limits,pick your own losers and walk away having enjoyed the transient ecstacy of sometimes winning.
https://about.gambleaware.org/
SFA chief exective Ian Maxwell said his body does not check on employment contracts, instead the SPFL askes clubs to self-certify that they are not breaching employment law.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223377838595878914/photo/1
……………….
You wuld think that after the ibrox fiasco they would take an interest in player contracts.
easyJambo 31st January 2020 at 19:11
‘..Ashley made his investment in TRFCL in October 2012.’
Again, eJ, I post not in respect of the substance of your post, but only to say that it prompted me to look again at the IPO prospectus (I couldn’t remember whether Ashley’s shareholding pre-dated the issue of the IPO).
In doing so, I came across this, which has nothing to do with Ashley, and cannot honestly say that I had previously seen it:
“12.1.7 5 Way Agreement between SFA, SFL, SPL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL …
‘..The SFA, SPL, SFL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL entered into an agreement dated 27 July 2012 ...The Administrators of RFC 2012 plc disclaimed all liability in relation to the 5 Way Agreement.”
That prompts me to ask, were they actually signatories? If so, they could hardly ‘disclaim all liability’ for what they signed up to?
Was that an attempt by Whitehouse and Clark [ the very people who knew for an absolute fact that they had failed to bring RFC of 1872 out of Administration by failing to secure a buyer who was ready to pay all the debts of the club in administration] to distance themselves from the nonsense of ‘continuity’?
Or were they only present to formally surrender the RFC of 1872’s SPL share to the SPL, under the Articles of Association of the SPL?
One wonders, why else would they need to be party to any such Agreement?
Cluster One 31st January 2020 at 22:59
'..SFA chief exective Ian Maxwell said his body does not check on employment contracts, ..'
'…You would think that after the ibrox fiasco they would take an interest in player contracts.'
+++++++++
Indeed.
But of course they have a history of not checking what a lying majority shareholder of Rangers FC of 1872 told them he was paying his players!
At a time when CO from his personal knowledge and enrichment knew, allegedly, what lies had been told.
Such a stupid statement by Maxwell sums it all up.
The SFA is no kind of trustworthy 'governance' body.
You'll remember that the SFA's Judicial Panel issued a punishment to Rangers that was later found under judicial review to have been ultra vires. That is, the judge decided that the SFA articles and rules did not give the judicial panel the power to impose the specific sanction it sought to hand down.
Organisations and individuals can – and do – often act beyond their powers.
The 5WA contains a contractual agreement to collectively accept a construct (defining an association football club in an entirely new way) which was clearly at odds with the extant SPL and SFA articles/rules and the constitution of the SFL.
It would beyond credible that any officer of these organisations believed he had the power (from their respective articles, rules and constitution) to agree to sanction such a construct.
Such an agreement would likely – in legal terms – to be declared null and void if challenged. Of course, within the parties, there is no incentive to question the validity of the agreement.
As there was a financial benefit to the creation and acceptance of this false construct, the question of whether a fraudulent transaction took place is still open.
Remember, Sevco effectively paid the SPL £2.55m for this false construct.
I agree with JC, the SFA – as a signatory to the 5WA – became party to the subsequent false IPO prospectus.
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 23:47
‘..The SFA, SPL, SFL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL entered into an agreement dated 27 July 2012 ...The Administrators of RFC 2012 plc disclaimed all liability in relation to the 5 Way Agreement.”
============================
I don't know if you were in court at the time, but I recall asking DG about the 5WA, in relation to the indemnities and reference to CAS. He said that he personally didn't know what the 5WA was, but that he would ask DW/PC. At a subsequent court date he said that DW/PC didn't know anything about it either. I told him that was a bit odd as they were supposed to be signatories to the agreement on behalf of RFC plc.
I've tried to reconcile the above with the highlighted bit from your post. It may reflect that the administrators took a view that the 5WA had nothing to do with them (it didn't, barring the SPL share transfer). They may have intimated at an early stage that they would not accept any new claim or liability imposed on them, other than what arose as part of the normal administration process. To that extent, they would not have participated in the creation or discussions that led to the 5WA, hence their claim to me of having no knowledge of the agreement.
Just to highlight another 'unusual' element of the 5WA…
It contains a clause which specifically includes the Recitals as part of the body of the agreement.
Recitals to an agreement normally 'set the scene' and would include include uncontroversial facts about the participants that simply give context to the formal parts of the document. Recitals are not normally, in themselves, legally binding in contractual terms.
That the 5WA was constructed in this way tells me that they were sensitive to the fact that their novel construct for an association football club was not uncontroversial. Agreement between the parties for the construct needed to be confirmed in strict contractual terms. They hid in the Recitals in an attempt to make their creation appear 'normal'. It was anything but…
JC & EJ, From my ever less accurate memory I seem to recall that Green was given permission by the administrators (or it was claimed he had been given permission) to act on behalf of Rangers FC (IL) and as such signed the 5WA on behalf of both Rangers (IL) and Sevco.
I may be completely wrong with this but it may jog someone's memory if I am in anyway correct, but it might explain the existence of the disclaimer and also the claim by DG and subsequently DC/PC that they knew nothing about the 5WA. Perhaps a more accurate statement might have been to say the chose to know nothing about it.
Fitba' rules they can bend, break, ignore or re-draft with impunity, but there are some things by which even the corrupt must comply.
Members meetings were hastily called, as highlighted on the steps of Hampden by the late honourable Turnbull Hutton. They were not an attempt to do the right thing, but a legal requirement, minuted and recorded for posterity.
. The 5-way agreement?…….Merely an addendum stapled to the application form……It's all documented and recorded, as per the legal obligations of a company limited by guarantee…..Which the SFA are.
If the correct legal procedures were followed, it's all written down folks…. hidden in plain view.
If they have complied with company laws in the same manner as they complied with their own rules, that may be a problem.
Rules the SFA MUST obey?…..Who'd hae thunk it?…..I smell the sweaty sock of Achilles.
https://www.informdirect.co.uk/business-management/company-limited-by-guarantee-what-is-it/
Allyjambo 1st February 2020 at 13:16
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JC & EJ, From my ever less accurate memory I seem to recall that Green was given permission by the administrators (or it was claimed he had been given permission) to act on behalf of Rangers FC (IL) and as such signed the 5WA on behalf of both Rangers (IL) and Sevco.
………….
Regan off to Airport.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223619679194898432/photo/1
A bit off topic but one last comment on Lambogate. A story has emerged on Twitter saying the guy tampering with the Lamborghini was a PI hired by a certain footballer’s girlfriend to put a tracking device on the car. The veracity of this explanation is not confirmed but it’s interesting that the tabloids have dropped the story.
I note the following from last Thursday's Court Roll :
"The sists in the undernoted cases have expired. Accordingly the cases will be put out By Order in the near future. Intimation should be given to the Keeper of the Rolls of any cases on the list which have settled:
1. A54/19 Charles Green v The Chief Constable of Police Scotland &c "
As far as I can gather, this means that the period for which it was agreed/decided that a case should be put to sleep for a while (as far as further court action is concerned) has expired, and it either has to be brought back into action or abandoned.
I don't know whether we, the public, would necessarily be told if Green has abandoned his action or reached a settlement?
I'll watch out for the 'By Order'
Hello strangers!
I’ve been lurking every day. But that wee dog on the front page has broken my heart. Wanted to make sure I could get back on before I send a donation.
Me@18.03
Must be true. The Sunday Mail are running with the PI story.
Allegedly , a certain player was having a liaison with a quine . And not like Stevie G to throw players under the bus .
Ex Ludo 2nd February 2020 at 00:09
Must be true. The Sunday Mail are running with the PI story.
========================================
Sunday Mail@Sunday_Mail
Exclusive in tomorrow's Sunday Mail: Rangers star Alfredo Morelos' car targeted by private detective hired by his wife
Nicked from Twitter
Columbo 1
Columbian 0
Oh, and just one more thing…
Immediately, when the very weird 'brakes tampering / incredibly thin man' story broke, the average Bampot smelt sh… something unpleasant.
Unlike some in the SMSM – who quickly seized the opportunity to produce all sorts of admonishing, preaching p!sh.
And now it appears – allegedly – that the on field, inveterate cheat is not too honest off the field either…?
Quelle surprise!
According to the Sunday Mail, the SFA has banned at least one player for betting on games & kept it secret:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sfa-chiefs-secret-gambling-ban-21412212
I wonder if the player appeared on the 'Suspensions List' which is available on the SFA's website? I remember a few years ago that a Hamilton Academical player (Simon Mensing) got a drugs ban & that was hushed up until he had served his suspension.
This lack of transparency from the governing body can't be good for the game.
I re-read the Scottish Sun article on 29 Jan. which seemed to start the story about the Morelos car incident being 'brake tampering'. When you read it there is no mention of sources. The few quotes from neighbours do not mention brakes. It was pure speculation.
The latest story in the same publication is more believable – stop laughing at the back! There is mention of sources. Apparently there has indeed been an arrest, confirmed by the police. The PI volunteered going to the police because he was worried about the brake tampering allegations. I didn't read the journalist saying "That was us! That was us!"
At the end of the day rival fans can sleep easy, the inference of dangerous sabotage was unfounded. Scottish football's reputation is restored.
It's an astonishingly perverted SMSM when the off-field affairs of footballers can grab front page headlines while the lies and corruption of the Governance board in the propagation of the sporting myths [that RFC of 1872 were entitled to a UEFA competitions licence in 20112 and that TRFC ,created in 2012, is somehow 140-odd years old!] are investigated and reported on.
Let's see, say,Gordon Blackstock interviewing, say, Maxwell, like an investigative journalist like, say, Alex Thomson would interview him about the Res12 matter and the 5-Way Agreement and why SDM's cheating was not discovered by any ordinary, routine SFA internal checking mechanism (when eyebrows were first raised at the quality of players who were apparently accepting such relatively low wages)
Jingso Jimsie
I was told on Friday that a particular player who is often in the news was the subject of an investigation into a spread-betting situation and that today’s papers would have details. Told this morning that publication was prevented by injunction. Was sceptical at first but is this perhaps a sideways allusion to that?
Hey, Jimbo, great to see you back. Gies us a wee song
…Hmm, maybe no
Hiya Allyjambo, I was with my Jambo pal and his good lady yesterday. I often tell him what you and easy are saying.
We were talking about your new manager and how he will need time. I mentioned why is CL not off the premises yet? He agreed but reckons, according to what he has heard, AB is doing him a favour because he has a similar problem to Brian Rice.
I'll leave my songs to Sentinel Celts where I mostly post now!
Cheers.
Jimbo,
Echoing EJ's post above. Great to see you back. I've missed your insightful contributions; even the 'wee songs'.
You won't believe it! The latest is that the Private Investigator is ex Army and wait for it – a ST holder at Ibrox. Fair play to him at least he wasn't trying to endanger someone's life. I don't know the legalities of his efforts but if he is only being charged with a breach of the peace it must be pretty low down the chain.
I await all the apologies from various mouthpieces.
Cheers Mordecai, it's good to be back!
Big Pink 2nd February 2020 at 12:05
I was told on Friday that a particular player who is often in the news was the subject of an investigation into a spread-betting situation and that today’s papers would have details. Told this morning that publication was prevented by injunction. Was sceptical at first but is this perhaps a sideways allusion to that?
———————
Interesting. Do you know whether the player, the club he plays for, or the SFA applied for the injunction?
JohnClark@12.03
I suppose it’s a “value” judgement on what will sell more papers. The recent Profumo affair television series showed us that that the tabloids have never changed. The story should be why certain papers speculated wildly about the Lamborghini and thereby encouraged even more hysterical and libellous assertions on social media.
jimbo 2nd February 2020 at 15:12
'..I don't know the legalities of his efforts but if he is only being charged with a breach of the peace it must be pretty low down the chain…'
+++++++++++
And a welcome back from me, jimbo.
Anent your post, I spent an otherwise empty part of the morning trying to find out what kind of offence it might be to stick a tracking device on someone's car without their permission.
I found all kinds of interesting stuff that I hadn't known existed. For example, there is a 'Lawful basis interactive guidance tool' published on line by the Information Commissioner Scotland for use by folk whose official jobs(authorised) might require some detailed knowledge of the Data protection stuff as well as the law(in England) of trespass give rise to the need to collect data.
I couldn't take it all in, f course, but there can be criminal offences and civil offences involved if a person whether an 'official' or a private eye records personal data of people by remote tracking of them.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/gdpr-resources/lawful-basis-interactive-guidance-tool/
I suspect that our PI was maybe lucky that the polis /PF couldn't be ar.ed using the Data protection complicated stuff, and settled instead for an everyday breach of the peace!
Thanks John, I just wondered if his wife/partner giving permission might have compromised the illegality. (What's mine is yours etc.)
jimbo 2nd February 2020 at 16:12
'..What's mine is yours etc.'
++++++++++++
Ha,ha! The lawyers could have a wee discussion on the question of whether the family car belongs to both man and wife and whether either could give permission for the other to be tailed/tracked without their knowledge or permission.
jimbo 1st February 2020 at 22:49
……………
Never a stranger when someone remembers your name.
Ok i post one song. I now step back.
……………………………..
I’ll leave my songs to Sentinel Celts where I mostly post now!
……………………
So you have been playing away, i would check under your car on the way home;-)
C.O.
btw I almost kept in touch! I had a good blether with Big Pink about a year ago. He was in my local picking up a guitar. If you get the chance his group is well worth a listen. Moonrocks or Moonraker – my memory is terrible nowadays.
jimbo 2nd February 2020 at 19:06
I had a good blether with Big Pink about a year ago. He was in my local picking up a guitar. If you get the chance his group is well worth a listen. Moonrocks or Moonraker – my memory is terrible nowadays.
===================================
Big Pink is into "rock".
https://www.moonrocks.band/
(apologies for the advertising)
Cheers for that EJ looking forward to watching that later on esp. Cigarettes and Alcohol, but I'm watching the snooker final just now.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11925255/exclusive-morelos-on-racism-discipline-and-life-at-rangers
Disfrutate!
Jingso.Jimsie 3rd February 2020 at 11:29
'..Disfrutate!'
+++++++++++
Not exactly something to enjoy, Jingo.Jimsie, just another attempt by the media to try to tell us that a throat-slitting gesture meant 'it's over' or some such nonsense.
What next? A documentary about the incorruptibility and gold standard integrity of Scottish Football governance over the past 20 years or so?
That would be just about as believable as that 'interview' with Morelos.
There seems to be a lot of deflection going on and I cannot think it's to distract from Morelos' private life. Today's race card is scraping the barrel , is there a reason why we should feel sorry for this individual? Is he involved in the spread betting allegation ? Meanwhile we have now entered February and the "massive investment" hinted at by Alex Rae doesn't seem to have materialised . Maybe the corona virus has put investors on caution , the Chinese market was down 8% on opening today which may restrict Julian Wolhardt's ability to raise funds for vanity projects from far East speculators. Dave King is still listed as a Director at Companies House and his presence even from behind a curtain will not encourage external funding . The share issue mentioned at the AGM doesn't seem to be making any headway either. The transfer window didn't bring in the multi million offers suggested and wages saved by loaning players out were neutralised by those coming in. I'm sure the Close loan is due repayment in February , can they roll it over for another year ? Can they roll it over and increase it or will Close call time on this risky venture ? I believe they may just have ran out of road.
(A quick run through of moonrocks playlist – what excellent taste in music , none more so than Maid in Heaven by Be Bop Deluxe , a band I was lucky enough to see 3 times at the Apollo in Glasgow.)
Just read a post elsewhere listing 3 bad results for TRFC that had, in the immediate aftermath, 3 stories clearly seeking sympathy for Morelos/TRFC.
Drew 1-1 with Hearts at Tynecastle followed by claims Morelos was racially abused. Police and Hearts follow it up, nothing found to substantiate it (I'm not saying it didn't happen).
Beaten 2-1 by Hearts at Tynecastle followed by Lamborghini-gate that held strong insinuations it involved a Celtic supporter. Absolute nonsense.
Drew 0-0 with Aberdeen at Ibrox followed by media PR job including claims of racism aimed at Morelos (not specifically in that game).
Perhaps TRFC are not going to win the league, and it's everyone else to blame – for unsettling their prized 'asset'.
John Clark 3rd February 2020 at 11:58:
The ‘enjoyment’ isn’t in the content of the piece, but in deconstructing the purpose/need of TRFC to permit said (very rare) interview with ‘Puir Wee Elfie’ at this time.
So what was it: recent team performances, Lambogate, the Judicial Panel x2 on Thursday (which shouldn’t affect Morelos directly, I think), the Corona Virus preventing his transfer to China for gazillions, or something else that’s not yet in the public domain?
It’s a ‘scurius pucheranii’, if you will: deflection, but why now?
(Apologies. Much of my post has been covered by Allyjambo above. Must post faster!)
“Why now” is a pertinent question indeed. We are often advised to follow the money so I did and well to cut a long story short there isn’t any. We know there is a minimum 10m shortfall to see out the season , we know there are millions in outstanding transfer fees, we know they owe Close a minimum of 4m , we know they owe Ashley many millions , we know King can’t/won’t put any more money in , we suspect other Directors are tapped out , we know there were no substantial fees incoming during the transfer window, we know there is no movement on a share issue , we know that they have been spending more than they earn since inception. They had to meet the January wage bill as it fell due before the transfer window closed . They still had hope of domestic success and CL riches next year before Hearts and Aberdeen recently put a dent in that. The picture at the beginning of January was one filled with hope and possibility , the picture now is one of despair. As is normal down Ibrox way the toys are coming out the pram and the fingers are being pointed at everybody else.They say history doesn’t repeat but it rhymes so for the 14th of this month
“Faces are Red – invoices are to – stump up the cash – or it’s Sevco series 2 ” (apologies in advance)
If you haven’t listened to Sportsound this evening, then it’s worth listening to it on the podcast for Michael Stewart’s rant about James Traynor.
Allyjambo 3rd February 2020 at 15:43
'..Just read a post elsewhere listing 3 bad results for TRFC that had, in the immediate aftermath, 3 stories clearly seeking sympathy for Morelos/TRFC.'
+++++++++++
And I've just been listening to Michael Stewart debunking the 'Morelos as a victim ' myth', battling with McIntyre (useless as a 'chairman' because of his personal allegiances) and Darryl Broadfoot about the leaked story about tampering with brakes, and the Skysport interview with Morelos recorded last Friday being put out to get the Lamborghini story off the pages; and having a go at Traynor and his leaked stories that ,as it were, drum up PR business for him, and do damage to TRFC its image.
Listen back to Sportsound when you can.
‘Jim Traynor is a dangerous character ‘
Michael Stewart
A 'friend' of one of Scotland's most successful, be-knighted, businessmen? Surely not!
Allyjambo 3rd February 2020 at 15:43
'..Just read a post elsewhere listing 3 bad results for TRFC that had, in the immediate aftermath, 3 stories clearly seeking sympathy for Morelos/TRFC.'
====================
When I became aware of the latest Morelos racism claims this morning I was angry to the point that I hoped Celtic would respond to them. As the day wore on though I am glad they didn't. That is twice now the claim has been made that Morelos was racially abused at Celtic Park on 29th December, and no substantive evidence has ever been provided. There were TV microphones, Police and stewards everywhere, yet the only person to hear racism is someone who is unable to speak English. This comes hard on the heels of seeing absurd implications in the media that Celtic fans were attempting to harm Morelos and his family by tampering with the brakes on his car.
I am glad Celtic did not respond because I am sure that is exactly what Rangers want, and also because someone like Tom English would dive straight in with a 'let's stop the tit-for-tat' type article. I often see football writers complaining about the poisonous atmosphere surrounding Scottish Football, while completely ignoring the chief culprits behind it all. This is not two sides of the same coin. If Rangers PR are allowed to continue this vile campaign unchallenged, then who is to say what is going to happen if the more unhinged in our society allow it to influence their actions.
Timtim, yes indeed: Lambogate is a ridiculous story – but at least it's a useful distraction from a dire lack of readies down Govan way.
And, unlike 2012 when both Ibrox and Hampden reacted to events, and made things up as they went along – to accommodate an Ibrox club,
…this time should be no surprise whatsoever to anyone who has merely skimmed through the latest RIFC accounts.
And, it would seem reasonable to expect that Hampden and Ibrox have already discussed options and actions to deal with an insolvency event.
And, to sidestep awkward questions and those pesky Internet Bampots, their agreed solution – and accompanying PR assault in the SMSM – will be executed with indecent haste.
I would also guess that – perhaps a first – the Hampden blazers will have a comprehensive and detailed plan to rollout if and when required.
And as we know: the SFA & SPFL ARE the 42 senior clubs.
So, a question I would now be eager to ask Lawwell – who infamously claimed at the AGM to have never seen the 5WA – is this;
"Peter, forget about the 5WA.
But, can you tell the CFC fans if you – or anyone at CFC – have been involved in any discussions with representatives of the SFA, the SPFL or The Rangers in the last 12 months – to address how to deal with a potential insolvency event arising at Ibrox?"
Timtim 3rd February 2020 at 16:22
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“Why now” is a pertinent question indeed. We are often advised to follow the money so I did and well to cut a long story short there isn’t any. We know there is a minimum 10m shortfall to see out the season , we know there are millions in outstanding transfer fees, we know they owe Close a minimum of 4m , we know they owe Ashley many millions , we know King can’t/won’t put any more money in , we suspect other Directors are tapped out , we know there were no substantial fees incoming during the transfer window, we know there is no movement on a share issue , we know that they have been spending more than they earn since inception. They had to meet the January wage bill as it fell due before the transfer window closed . They still had hope of domestic success and CL riches next year before Hearts and Aberdeen recently put a dent in that. The picture at the beginning of January was one filled with hope and possibility , the picture now is one of despair. As is normal down Ibrox way the toys are coming out the pram and the fingers are being pointed at everybody else.They say history doesn’t repeat but it rhymes so for the 14th of this month
…………………
We know they still have enough cash to pay a dangerous character
@C1
There always seems to be enough cash to pay the Minister of Propaganda ,he's not someone you want to get on the wrong side of . I remember just before he took up a position at Ibrox he publicly stated
They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died.
Why do other journalists do his bidding ? Does he have the power to damage them ? Yes he is certainly a dangerous and imo nasty little man so is it any wonder his bills are settled ? You need a long straw to sit and sup with this character.
@Stevie BC 20:22
I have no doubt that should an insolvency event present itself then everything will be done to usher them back with the minimum of damage . They have already paved the way by excluding the clubs from having a say . What won't happen is Celtic or the SFA funding the shortfall to dig them out a hole , even if they wanted to the hole is now too deep.
I sent this little email to the FCA earlier today:
To:Complaints Scheme
3 Feb at 09:46
Dear Complaints Scheme,
It is now two months since I last heard from you about my complaint that the FCA may have breached its statutory duty in authorising a misleading IPO Prospectus.
May I have an update, please, on the action that the Authority has taken in respect of that complaint?
Yours sincerely,
me."
It was acknowledged by automated email.
I think the interim CEO needs to pull his socks up, or he will definitely not get the job permanently!
TimTim
There’s a rough version of that on the FB page taken by a punter at a soundcheck.
John, sounds like a supporting letter from your MP might help, if you are lucky enough to have an empathetic one!
They dare not ignore correspondence from an MP.
Even if your MP has no sympathy with your point raised they are duty bound to support you in the handling of your correspondence to a body like the FCA.
David Low@Heavidor3h
Four of us unrepentant types down here @ the Turnberry Hotel restaurant when in walk the RIFC board for a strategy meeting; sat down at the table next, looked up, stood up and left. Funny as ………. couldn’t make it up
=======================
Decisions, decisions, decisions to be made , but not in the present company, thanks!
.
Now why on earth would they be wary of David Low overhearing anything?
When I think about it they might have been interested in what David Low was speaking about!
EJ if you are still on. I was telling AJ that I was with my Jambo pal a few days ago. I mentioned that the new stand at Tynecastle looked pretty good. He went off on a rant! Costs spiralled out of control from £12m to £24 apparently. And it’s still not finished. He reckoned AB was instrumental in the joinery work being awarded to friend or family company and was a major factor in delays etc. I think there was much more to it than that.
My point to him was this. Major building and civil engineering works are guesswork. Fixed Price Contracts are the exception rather than the rule for that reason. Pricing the cost of a ‘Pre-Fab’ housing scheme would be easy. Most others are not. So they opt for ‘Cost Plus’ contracts.
I remember in the 1970s the first time I was aware of this. Ninewells Hospital. It was front page news how much dearer it ended up. Since then – take your pick. The Scottish Parliament Building. The HS2 railway line being the latest.
The ‘inflated’ cost of the new stand is par for the course! As Aberdeen FC will find out soon enough. Clever clubs will take the first estimate with a pinch of salt. Have in the back of your mind up to double.
I see BBC have departed from the norm and have yet to put up the Podcast of last night's Sportsound. For anyone who wants to hear the part of it where Michael Stewart gives it tight to Rangers PR tactics, see the link below. Macintyre and Broadfoot should just give up and spend Monday nights in the Louden Tavern, where they will find plenty of like minded individuals.
As for Michael Stewart, I suspect he is now about to follow the same path as Jim Spence out of the BBC, such will be the volume of complaints, and no doubt threats coming down the line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEZXkr9OiM&t=328s
jimbo 4th February 2020 at 00:11
Now why on earth would they be wary of David Low overhearing anything?
================
Perhaps they didn't want him to hear them discussing the 'massive investment' coming Rangers way?
UTH@07.04
It seems pointless by me, at least, to try and limit the damage of that Sportsound broadcast by failing to put the podcast up since the horse has well and truly bolted. In the clip from the link above there seems to be some desperation by Daryl Broadfoot to play down Lambogate and continue to push the narrative that Senhõr Morelos is more sinned against than sinning. Kudos to Michael Stewart for telling it like it is and sticking to his guns. There is a dark parallel with what went on yesterday in Downing Street when the assembled Press Corp walked out because only a chosen few were deemed worthy enough to get restricted briefing from whoever presents this sort of stuff inside No. 10. In terms of Scottish football it is quite clear that Mr Broadfoot is one of the chosen few who can be trusted to remain “on message” The corollary of that is that Michael Stewart may find himself outside the tent looking in along with Jim Spence. If that does transpire then it would be a great coup for this site if Michael Stewart could provide some thoughts on this forum?
It is all about cash.
That is what pays the bills as the clock ticks on relentlessly.
The blue club don’t have enough revenue to cover their outgoings between now and the arrival of season book money.
They didn’t sell their big South American asset in the window even for the rumoured and inadequate agreed move-on fee.
They didn’t seem to make other inroads into their expenditures either.
So their moneymen and board have a few options not all mutually exclusive but all tricky enough to find a path through.
They need to talk and why not at Trump Turnberry while their credit is good.
They need to consider these (and maybe more)
1 Keep going and do nothing heading for the iceberg like before in 2011 /2012 (accepting that chaos is manageable when you are the much needed establishment club).
2 Squeeze their current directors and fans group even more to buy more confetti shares with the real threat of option 1 being the alternative.
3 Find new money from new directors (maybe even at the extreme end a trade sale with a new owner coming in to save the day)
4 Agree new commercial loans like the loan from Close Bros or another similar friendly loan shark in a suit.
5 Consider a pre-pack with the blessing of the authorities (and all the complicities that involves) – because it really is everybody else’s fault.
And it all comes back to cash because every month in the real world they have wages and bills to pay and not enough income to pay their current outgoings.
Whatever the Rangers board agree they will need their support to be on side.
All the victimhood stuff is making sense.
A few people are now dismissing the translated subtitles on the skysports interview with Morelos . This shouldn't be difficult to prove. If SkySports Scotland are literally putting words in his mouth then I would expect Celtic to throw the book at them for making false allegations. It would have been incredibly stupid not to think someone out there could translate Spanish efficiently , it may come down to the level of desperation to deflect .
Regarding the cash required to see out the season.
Could a Hong Kong, or other consortium lend the money "secured" on El Duffalo???
If they, (TRFC and consortium) agree to a base value of £10 million and a loan provided for this amount, with a summer sale meeting the repayment. Any surplus e.g. £5 million if he is sold for £15 million, to be the reward for the risk taken, or even potentially split between the two parties.
Unusual scenario but nothing this club does would surprise me.
Before people lend money they want to be assured of the quality of the asset the loan is based on . In this instance they would want to assure themselves that there is no release clause if a set amount is offered . According to his agent there is and the price isn't very high . There is also the possibility of a loss of form or an injury that would reduce the valuation . This is also a legal minefield as it then involves dual or multiple claims of ownership of his contract so I would say the possibility of raising funds in this manner are unlikely. To date no offers have been received unless you believe the verbal offer of 20m from Beijing story that a BBC journalist claimed to have seen written evidence of. The opportunity to raise capital from players has passed until the summer transfer window opens .
jimbo 4th February 2020 at 00:44
EJ if you are still on. I was telling AJ that I was with my Jambo pal a few days ago. I mentioned that the new stand at Tynecastle looked pretty good. He went off on a rant! Costs spiralled out of control from £12m to £24 apparently. And it’s still not finished. He reckoned AB was instrumental in the joinery work being awarded to friend or family company and was a major factor in delays etc. I think there was much more to it than that.
My point to him was this. Major building and civil engineering works are guesswork. Fixed Price Contracts are the exception rather than the rule for that reason. Pricing the cost of a ‘Pre-Fab’ housing scheme would be easy. Most others are not. So they opt for ‘Cost Plus’ contracts.
==================================
There are a number of people who share the same concerns as your "Jambo pal", including myself.
The original budget for the Tynecastle redevelopment program was £11m, with a £1m contingency (the project involved more than just the stand). That £12m was quoted by Ann Budge at the club's AGM in December 2016. The budget went up to £15m a year later (it was meant to have been completed by then). The following year the figure was £20.7m. The club didn't announce a figure at the last AGM in December 2019, but you could work out that the spend to date was £21.6m (with the fit out of the second floor still to be completed). I personally asked Ann Budge at the AGM how much it would take to complete the fit out. She advised £1.5m, so that will take the total up to at least £23.1m.
We are all acutely aware that budgets and final prices can vary enormously, but a project that was meant to be completed within a year has now reached 4 years and is still incomplete. You would have thought that within that first year you would now have a proper handle on the price and time scales. There has been nothing from Ann Budge to explain the cost overrun, other that to say that she has improved the spec on some items and added other items to the project. There has been no admission that they got anything wrong, although it is known that some things in the original spec have been dropped or replaced by a lower cost option. There were also changes to key personnel during the project. Mistakes were made, such as the club failing to order the seats. Why the "club" should be ordering stuff in a project of that nature is beyond me. I think the club probably thought it was doing it on the cheap by taking on some of the project management itself.
The club was poorly advised about costs and timescales from the off and has contributed to the project's mismanagement itself.
On the budget side, the escalating cost of the development has only been met form donations from benefactors amounting to at least £6.75m (originally £3m). Additional funds have come from the club's own resources, estimated at £7.7m (originally £3m), which has restricted spending in other areas including the first team, plus a loan facility from Ann Budge herself.
It will probably take at least another couple of years to raise any further funds required and pay off Ann Budge, during which the spending of the team will continue to be compromised.
Your pal's concern about contracts being awarded to family members is also valid and shared by myself. The main fit-out works were awarded, we are told "by structured tender", to Ann Budge's brother's company. However, I know from someone working in a senior role in the project, that some of the works did not go through a tender process because of time constraints. Fair enough if the tender process was transparent and fair, but £6.1m has been paid to his company to date. A check on his accounts at Companies House suggest that he has never undertaken anything on this scale before. Now, it may be that the club has received good value from the contract, but there is no way of knowing whether or not that is true. The upshot, is that suspicions remain that the contract was awarded because of who it was, rather than on a best for the club basis.
That's my rant over.
'Timtim 4th February 2020 at 11:19
…The opportunity to raise capital from players has passed until the summer transfer window opens.'
####################################
Plenty of transfer windows still open worldwide according to the FIFA list:
https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/transfer-window-calendar.pdf?cloudid=jdhfjn1zhxbwezpl5fzc
There's still hope!
https://thecelticstar.com/disgraceful-manipulation-sky-sports-accused-of-a-completely-invented-translation/#.XjlUk3cjlNQ.twitter
A link to the allegations of the mistranslation.
Good rant EJ , where there's money there's corruption and nepotism is rarely the most effective business model
Fair point Jingso , who knows , the Bhutanese Premiera may yet ride to the rescue. ( I did say on twitter to prepare for a late flurry of interest from Russia and China) I will change from opportunity passed to chances are now very slim.
If anyone is waiting for the podcast from last night's Sportsound, here is a youtube clip of the relevant bits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=KZEZXkr9OiM&feature=emb_logo