The “Lawwell Letter” is trending everywhere this week. To elucidate, it is email sent to (among others) Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley of Celtic on 26 July 2012 by SPL CEO Neil Doncaster.
The email came with an attached copy of the Five Way Agreement (hereafter “5WA”, the deal between Sevco, Rangers, the SFA, the SPL and the SFL). Now that it has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.
I would preface my comments with a caveat though. On the face of it, the Celtic Chief Executive appears to have misled the gathering at the recent Celtic AGM. He was asked by a shareholder if Celtic were involved in the Five Way Agreement. Lawwell replied, “No”, and gave same “No” response to the follow up question, “have you seen it?”
Given that a copy of that email was in the possession of a few folk before that AGM, I have to admit to being surprised by that answer – although even more surprised at the apparent lack of due diligence implied by the lack of knowledge of its content.
We have attempted to contact Mr Lawwell to ask him if he would like to comment on the apparent discrepancy between the evidence and his answer (and I am sure we are not the only ones to have done so). To date, we have received no response. Given the complete lack of acknowledgement of the existence of this anomaly in the MSM, we should perhaps assume that none will be forthcoming.
Perhaps there is an explanation (yes I know), but Celtic should know, like Rangers old and new have come to realise, that silence on these matters breeds deep suspicion and distrust.
Assuming for the minute that Occam’s Razor applies here, there may be an uncomfortable truth emerging for Celtic fans – that Rangers (old and new) do not have a monopoly on dishonesty. There is also an uncomfortable truth that should emerge for Rangers fans too – that as we have said all along, this has never been about just Rangers, but about the governance of the game.
If the Celtic CEO did lie to the AGM a few weeks ago what are the consequences? He broke no laws as far as I can see. One insider I spoke to said simply this,
“So he lied. So what? What happens now? It’s irrelevant”
That is of course absolutely true. As long as controlling shareholders are happy that Resolution 12 is buried, and that no deep inquiry into governance is held into the workings of the game in Scotland, the lie is nonpunishable, though it would be a mistake to believe that accountability is confined only to the corporate rules governing Boards and shareholders; the corporate veil of “I was only following company policy” can be readily challenged in the court of public opinion, which has no statute of limitations.
What all this demonstrates of course is that Celtic have been saying one thing to their fans and shareholders, nodding agreement in private meetings about how appalling Rangers behaviour was, tut-tutting over how amateurish the authorities were, and wringing their hands in frustration at what a sham the LNS inquiry turned out to be.
At the same time, they have done nothing, allowed small shareholders to spend not inconsiderable suns progressing the matter, and quietly hoped that the “appetite” for justice would diminish so they could get back to whatever it is they and the rest do when subject to little or no scrutiny.
Whilst ten in a row is on the table of course, they can get away with it. To Celtic fans right now, understandably, nothing else matters. But what if TIAR is derailed? Not a stretch to imagine that the Parkhead kitchen could get uncontrollably hot in that circumstance. And when the TIAR squirrel finally ends its scurry, in either success or failure, where will the fans attention be diverted?
Perhaps the arrogance that permits making (allegedly) false statements to a general meeting, and (allegedly) misleading shareholders over Res 12 is borne of the knowledge that the parachutes are ready to be deployed when either of the above scenarios come to pass? If TIAR is achieved or goes south, are they already prepared for an emergency exit?
Celtic have two major shareholders whose combined holding is over 50% of the club’s shares. Dermot Desmond and Nick Train. Desmond is now in his eighth decade and Train is reportedly having some business difficulties. Both may well be moved to get out anyway, but fan unrest would make their decision a whole lot easier.
And Lawwell himself is – if you believe the MSM – on the wanted list of nearly as many top clubs as Alfredo Morelos.
The foregoing of course is extremely “Old Firm” centric, and as the two biggest clubs in the country they certainly have the biggest impact on the game, culturally, socially and financially. However there is no get-out clause here for others.
We KNOW there is evidence of fraud surrounding the licencing issue in 2012. We KNOW there is evidence of a cover up over that, and the EBT-related registration issues for Old Rangers. We KNOW that the Five Way Agreement was signed by football authorities in the knowledge that it would rob their own rules of judicial authority with regard to compliance by RFC prior to 2012.
We also know that NOT ONE club has taken a meaningful stand against any of it.
Clubs are saying one thing to supporters and doing their best to derail those supporters’ efforts on the other. We can also infer (not unreasonably) that the folk who run the clubs think that we as fans have no right to interfere in how they run their operations.
As I said earlier, Celtic can do what they like whilst TIAR is live, but afterwards, however it ends, the fans and shareholders involved in Res 12 will still be asking questions. Celtic in particular know how fatal it can be to alienate their own fan base – a fan base that has flexed its muscles with devastating effect for the boardroom in the past. And it is the wrath of the fans of all clubs that will eventually see the charlatans get their just desserts.
Our job as fans is to continue to hold those who care little for the honour and beauty of football to account, to continue to press them on their refusal to deal with arguably the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history.
The bottom line (which is of course what the folk in boardrooms care about) is this. They need us far more than we need them. As fans of different clubs, the sensibility of those of us at SFM recognises that the real battle, the real war, is not between rival fans or rival clubs, but between the arrogant, self-entitled clique who run our game; who lie for fun, who cheat and belittle the sport; and the good folk who make it possible for the game to prosper.
Resolution 12 is not just about Rangers – nor is it just about Celtic. It deserves to be embraced by every true football fan in the country. The Res 12 franchise needs to widened
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
Homunculus 11th February 2020 at 09:31 From the Rangers statement "The implication seems to be that the fault lies not with those who choose racism and abuse, but with a young immigrant who chose to come to our country. This is a deeply disturbing attitude and that it was actually expressed in a national newspaper defies belief." One is forced to wonder about people who came to Scotland, who weren't actually immigrants. Should they just "go home". Is racism and abuse OK when it relates to them and their descendants who were born in Scotland. Did someone break irony when I wasn't looking.
______________
Amazing how they would conflate immigrants*, many who came to our country to escape famine and other horrors, with a man solely here to make lots of money from playing a game and who has absolutely no intention of remaining here once his contract is over.
He is not an immigrant, under any stretch of imagination. He is just a man lucky enough to be able to ply his lucrative trade in whatever country he can make most money. And then move on to the next.
* I think we can be pretty certain that this conflating is a deliberate attempt to embarrass Celtic supporters, and the club, by suggesting they are being somewhat hypocritical in the claimed abuse. Another mistake from a PR disaster.
I see John Hartson has posted that his friend and former teammate, Jackie McNamara, has collapsed at home on Saturday with a bleed on the brain. Jackie McNamara was one of those players no other club's supporters disliked, a very good footballer who never did anything to upset opposing fans. Always played, in my opinion, like a gentleman footballer.
My heartfelt best wishes go out to him and his family at this very trying time.
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1227250682828378113?s=21
You wait for ages to get a statement and then another comes along right behind it.
Ex Ludo
surely this wasn't written by an ex board member who was sacked for being..er…emmm,racist,crackpots
When will football fans and especially those speaking for 'fans groups' acknowledge that all clubs have their share of nutters and the larger clubs, in terms of probability, will have more nutters than others.
At some point one of these nutters will come and bite you in the bum if you get on your high horse about other clubs. (or if you are on a high horse someone may come along and punch it!!)
A wee while back Phil Mac posted a picture of the Hearts 'young team' as justification for his constant jibes that the Tynecastle club are a diet version of the club from Govan. A good deal of lads in the picture Phil chose were not much older than the 12 year old who is being reported as being under investigation for an incident at Celtic Park.
Hearts fans are well aware of the issues (mostly sectarian singing and flag waving crap, especially outwith the confines of Tynecastle and at away games) caused by a certain group of daft wee laddies. As far as I can see the vast majority condemn such behaviour but there is no doubt a pocket of neanderthals who think its all good fun.
We of course have to wait to see what comes out of the investigations into alleged racism by a 12 year old but everyone should be worried if it does turn out there is something in it.
I have seen some commentary on social media that seems to imply because its a 12 year old its not that bad.
Whether it be a Hoops fan of 12, a Hearts 'young team' member of 15 or 16 or a grown man at Ibrox, football as a whole should be calling them all out, when the evidence is there that racism has occurred, and this should especially be by the clubs that these people are purporting to support. End of.
Daft statements from the likes of Club 1872 help no-one.
wottpi 11th February 2020 at 16:44
When will football fans and especially those speaking for 'fans groups' acknowledge that all clubs have their share of nutters and the larger clubs, in terms of probability, will have more nutters than others.
======================
I was thinking much the same today. If every football club and its supporters looked inwardly and were honest they would admit that some of their fans indulge in abuse or chants that others find unacceptable, or may even be against the law. This could be racist, sectarian, point scoring over the tragedy of child abuse, or focusing on a misfortune which an opponent has suffered in his life.
That is why I find the attitude taken by Rangers and their fans group in the two recent statements truly baffling, because as a support they have been hugely guilty in the past of all that I mention. Even this season they have had part of their ground closed because of it.
Thy would do really well to get a new PR firm in with a totally different style. Not only would Scottish football benefit, Scottish society in general would as well.
tony 11th February 2020 at 16:04
Can you sense fury in every word.
Homunculus
i sense that irony has left the building down in sunny govan
My interest in the blog was reignited by MichaelStewartGate.
Derek McInnes seems to be taking a panning on Radio shortbread. Chris Commons was guest executioner. I presume he was recruited to alleviate the possibility of incriminating fingerprints.
A sacrifice is necessary to appease the gods.
Celtic refusing to cooperate with Sky Sports after Morelos mistranslation
Celtic are refusing to co-operate with Sky Sports as the Scottish champions pursue a full explanation for a mistranslated interview with the Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos.
In a major embarrassment for Sky, subtitles attached to Morelos, who spoke in Spanish, wrongly accused Celtic supporters of racially abusing the Colombian at the Old Firm match on 29 December.
Sky’s reporters were not welcome at Celtic’s pre-match press conference for Wednesday’s game at home to Hearts, as had been the case before last Sunday’s Scottish Cup tie against Clyde. Such a move is not typical of Celtic and illustrates the scale of their feeling. The broadcaster faces a race to resolve the matter before its live screening of Aberdeen v Celtic on Sunday.
After Celtic’s initial complaint, Sky admitted “inaccuracies” in the interview and removed it from all platforms before making a corrected version available. It said in a statement: “After numerous steps undertaken by Sky to verify the interview thoroughly we can be clear that at no point did Morelos allege that any racial abuse was directed at him by Celtic supporters in the interview. We apologise to the supporters of Celtic football club for this serious error. We are reviewing our procedures for translated interviews to ensure this does not occur in future.”
There was, though, no detail offered publicly or privately as to how this situation arose. Celtic remain angry with what they regard as the unsatisfactory nature of Sky’s response and have reported the situation to Ofcom.
This fall-out is all the more notable because Sky will begin an exclusive, five-year deal to screen live Scottish Premiership matches next season. Sky did not comment on this on Monday when approached by the Guardian. It has also been approached on Tuesday in relation to its lack of access to Celtic’s media briefings.
Ofcom is looking through complaints from Celtic supporters as well as from the club. An Ofcom spokesperson said: “We are assessing these complaints against our broadcasting rules, but have yet to decide whether or not to investigate.” This analysis typically takes around two weeks, with any formal investigation then usually completed within 50 working days.
Celtic have specifically demanded to know who was responsible for the translation. “The use of mistranslation to convey false meaning is a dangerous form of fake news which must be condemned and sanctioned,” said the club’s chief executive, Peter Lawwell.
upthehoops11th February 2020 at 19:39
Said along time ago, probably back on RTC, that a chance had been missed to bring football in Govan into the 21st Century.
Unfortunately for all of us the powers that be at both club and SFA/SPL allowed Ibrox to be solidly stuck in the past with all that pent up anger and entitlement along with the old school PR to support them.
About Police Scotland and Rangers.
Anyone remember PS's behaviour around Duff+Phelps?
"Lord Carlyle said they should not have seized the material as it breached the law".Glasgow Times
"nevertheless, the level of illegality is such that it can neither be condoned or countenanced not withstanding the relatively serious nature of the charge"Lord Carlyle.
Police Scotland have previous in losing the plot when it comes to matters involving the team which more than half its employees support.
Nearly 6 weeks after the event? I"ll apologise if I'm proved wrong on this but this 12 yr old wouldn't exist if Celtic hadn't gone to OFCOM. "He"ll" get off with a caution,his job done.
With all the attention grabbing noise around TRFC’s hapless PR management…
it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at the Blue Room.
I’m guessing that the occupants are otherwise focused on more mundane matters – like how to find £10M ASAP?
StevieBC
Can't ask Dave for it, someone took his wallet and laptop
wottpi 11th February 2020 at 21:40
'…the powers that be at both club and SFA/SPL allowed Ibrox to be solidly stuck in the past .'
+++++++++++++++
Another way of putting that, wottpi, is to say that the 'powers that be' created the myth that a club with a very long history but which nevertheless died and now belongs to the past is somehow still alive and stuck in the present!
I know what you mean, of course.
If the SFA and the SPL and SFL had taken a position based on sporting and business actuality and truth, the death of RFC of 1872 could have been used as a salutary lesson in the need to govern the sport properly, by ensuring that there was no room for lying basterts on club Boards, or collaborators in the SFA with such lying boards( and without independent investigation, how are we to know that there were no collaborators in the Res12 matter?)
If RFC of 1872 and TRFC of 2012 had each been dealt with as truth demanded, there would have been laid a solid groundwork of Truth and Integrity on which every aspect of the sport as sport, as entertainment, as honest value for money, as socially useful in the widest possible sense, bringing huge benefits to large numbers, could have been developed; and while there'rivalry' and perhaps dislike or even 'enmity' may have continued, these would have been based on sport rather than on race or religion or politics.
As is the case in perhaps every other sport in the world!
I met 'Rafa' Nadal on one of my trips to Brisbane. Great guy. I've never met Andy Murray. If the two were to meet in competition, my support for Murray would not be based on a 'hatred' for Nadal!
Watching 'Superbowl' I took sides, without my support for one team meaning that I was an enemy of the other or the supporters of the other.
Shouting in support of my granddaughters in swimming competitions does not mean that I wish the other competitors ill.
But if ,in any of the three scenarios I mentioned, there were to have been any suspicion of game rigging or fixing ( with or without the knowledge of the 'organisers' ) I would be enraged!
As would anyone who is not by nature a cheat-whether , in money dealings, in sport, or in life in general.
As ,sadly, so many folk in the governance of Scottish Football have shown themselves to be.
Stoutly supported by a lying SMSM.
StevieBC 11th February 2020 at 22:46
=================================
The interim report should be out before the end of February.
Where is the £10m coming from, though they will probably announce a half year "profit" like last year. Even when everyone knows football doesn't work that way.
Where is the promised "investment" in January the support were promised, Alex Rae wouldn't lie.
Who is replacing the Chairman as he stands down.
There are a lot of questions to deflect from, sorry answer.
misterlightbulbjoke 11th February 2020 at 22:06
'…Police Scotland have previous in losing the plot .'
+++++++++++++++++++++
Speaking as a humble member of the public, who has attended a number of court hearings related to things 'Rangers of 1872', and with no starry-eyed view of the legal profession, I can (I hope safely ) say that if the 'trial' of the Rangers thingymajig had been the theme of a film, nobody would have thought of it as bearing any more relevance to truth than a Laurel and Hardy cock-up!
Or to a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta.
All fun and laughs, with no serious intention.
Homunculus 11th February 2020 at 23:16
The interim report should be out before the end of February…
=======
Oh yes, I forgot about that.
I wonder if the – alleged – robbers also stole King's fag packet?
The fag packet upon which the highly creative, totally unaudited, interim numbers are scribbled?
And yes, it's going to be amusing to see how King calculates an 'interim profit' this year – when even the bears must have some awareness of the car crash numbers and the HUGE, SWIRLING RED FLAGS contained in the last RIFC accounts?
And these could be Interims issued for the first time ever by a 'Cold Shouldered' Chairman.
Another Ibrox world record…?
The way things are shaping up it appears that both *Rangers and Celtic are both simultaneously about to fall out with SKY. The question is “Who is going to blink first?”
It has been long argued that both clubs are mutually dependent and often act in concert to the detriment of Scottish football in general. The current situation following Translategate etc is a test for this point of view.
If what PMGB is saying in his latest blog proves to be accurate, then it looks like Succulent Jim might be sitting down to write his memoirs anytime soon. Might send a few people involved in Scottish football governance in recent years into a bit of a state
Should we start organising the whip-round now?
A whip-round to pay for a super injunction???
Allyjambo 12th February 2020 at 10:43
If what PMGB is saying in his latest blog proves to be accurate, then it looks like Succulent Jim might be sitting down to write his memoirs anytime soon…
=======
I did wonder yesterday about Spiers sharing an unusually specific/brave Twitter post… as if he knew for a fact that Traynor’s days were numbered.
And nobody can deny that Traynor does indeed have a fascinating story to tell from behind the lines at Ibrox.
However, it is also highly likely that he would write a book whose content – much like his PR output – bore little resemblance to the truth!
I’m sure that there will be a Non Disclosure Agreement element to Traynor’s handshake.
(Yes you can read that in two ways!)
https://twitter.com/kickinon20/status/1227555229132038144?s=21
A picture of Scottish football in happier times.
StevieBC 12th February 2020 at 11:48
'..nobody can deny that Traynor does indeed have a fascinating story to tell from behind the lines at Ibrox.'
++++++++++++++
I'm no employment law expert, but I suspect that if the Ibrox Board want to get rid of their PR man it will cost them a few bob: if they are legally able to sack him without risking an unfair dismissal suit, they'll have to buy his silence with a NDA;
and if they agree to let him go they'll have to agree a parting settlement that satisfies him.
At all events, it strikes me that the Ibrox board must really be composed of irresponsible and /or feckless members, to have been so foolish as to let the PR guru have a free hand in determining PR policy without Board approval, or, alternatively, to have themselves authorised the statement.
But then, what's new in the foolishness stakes as far as that Board are concerned?
Am I the only one who imagined the blue collar ne’er do well, exhausted from a hard day’s thievery, calling in at his local shop for a paper on his way home. And finding his wallet emptied, his cards raided and when he went to vent his fury Yosemite Sam fashion discovered somebody that day had also pinched the bullets out of his gun!
no? Just me then.
John Clark 12th February 2020 at 12:22
I may be wrong but I thought Traynor had left an employed role at Ibrox in favour of providing a PR service via his Level 5 Company.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24779284
If that's the case, there is no contract to be broken, just a contractual one between the 'club' and the PR company. That should be easier to break if it is considered his services are no longer up to desirable or up to scratch.
Like King and his Chairmanship, he may be portrayed as Rangers PR Man but isn't actually employed or acting in an 'official capacity' for the 'club'.
Happy to be corrected if anyone has other information to the contrary.
Wottpi@13.00
From what I recall Level 5 was launched in some style and were originally based in plush offices in Blythswood Square (on the square, so to speak) Murdo MacLeod featured in photos taken in the office at the launch. There may have been other clients but it soon became apparent that L5 had one exclusive client. JJ reports continually that the office is now situated within the Murray Park complex. Mr Traynor’s employment status is suitably opaque. The Eminence Gris if you will.
Ex Ludo 12th February 2020 at 13:26
Indeed, wouldn't it be a laugh if a certain PR consultant's activities warranted investigation under the IR35 legislation.
wottpi 12th February 2020 at 13:00
'..may be wrong but I thought Traynor had left an employed role at Ibro
Ex Ludo 12th February 2020 at 13:26
'…..Mr Traynor’s employment status is suitably opaque. The Eminence Gris if you will'
+++++++++++
Both of you are almost certainly correct in saying that the PR guru is not personally an employee of RIFC plc, but that his company is contracted on whatever basis to provide a PR service.
The main thing is that ending the contract will cost both parties a few bob and great embarrassment- settlement and NDA money on the one hand, and loss of future income on the other, as well as great damage to such residual 'reputation' as either has.
A marriage made in hell and ending in disaster!
wottpi 12th February 2020 at 14:15
'..wouldn't it be a laugh if a certain PR consultant's activities warranted investigation under the IR35 legislation.'
++++++++++++
I've just read the stuff on the changes to be made to the 'Private sector off-payroll working for clients' rules.
For the benefit of others
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/private-sector-off-payroll-working-for-clients
Very interesting, and I'm always startled to find out how little I know of tax laws and rules.And dismayed at how difficult I find it to understand the implications of particular changes or why they are made. I suppose the existing regime gives some sneaky advantage to people, and that HMRC wants to end that?
ohn Clark 12th February 2020 at 12:22 12 0 Rate This StevieBC 12th February 2020 at 11:48 '..nobody can deny that Traynor does indeed have a fascinating story to tell from behind the lines at Ibrox.' ++++++++++++++
I'm no employment law expert, but I suspect that if the Ibrox Board want to get rid of their PR man it will cost them a few bob: if they are legally able to sack him without risking an unfair dismissal suit, they'll have to buy his silence with a NDA; and if they agree to let him go they'll have to agree a parting settlement that satisfies him. At all events, it strikes me that the Ibrox board must really be composed of irresponsible and /or feckless members, to have been so foolish as to let the PR guru have a free hand in determining PR policy without Board approval, or, alternatively, to have themselves authorised the statement. But then, what's new in the foolishness stakes as far as that Board are concerned?
____________________-
And we know there was no approval given (by at least one board member or senior RIFC/TRFC employee)*, because..?
As you say, John, foolishness (and some even less desirable qualities) is an integral part of an Ibrox based football club's board member's DNA since the days of Craig Whyte, and maybe even David Murray, because even then they just let him get on with leading the club towards liquidation.
*Or, at least, an instruction to 'just get something out there, and turn the focus onto…'
Anent Traynor, whether employee or contractor (I thought the latter)
Various people on here a bit ahead of things? All based on PMGB's "developing story" which may develop as suggested or end up undeveloped like many others of his.
Yes I have my doubts about Phil’s predictions too. But Traynor will go at some point, with all those stories in his loving care.
bordersdon 12th February 2020 at 14:56
Agreed, however the mutterings of Michael Stewart are correct. The guy is a dinosaur and the club's PR is a disaster for anyone other than the gullibillies who lap such nonsense up.
Any professional and forward looking organisation would be looking for a change.
Of course given the current tactics of Trump and Johnson/Cummings some people may think this approach is very clever and goes down well with a certain audience.
Can't say its to my taste!!
Wottpi@14.50
IR35 is described in Wikipedia in the context of “disguised employees” This perhaps goes some way to explaining why a face painter was engaged by *Rangers from time to time. ? ? ?
Ex Ludo, That Face Painter on the list of creditors is easily the most famous face painter in history. Mentioned thousands of times. If I were he or she I would have exploited that by now. He or she should be the go to facial artist! Should be a household name! Maybe said person might consider hiring a PR guru?
bordersdon 12th February 2020 at 14:56
Anent Traynor, whether employee or contractor (I thought the latter) Various people on here a bit ahead of things?…
================
True.
I suppose the question for TRFC is: who would they get if they punted Traynor?
I’m guessing – as a one man band / one client business – he is relatively cheap as chips?
And it seems that his ‘virtual office’ at Blythswood Square has long been replaced with a desk at Murray Park – i.e. he is a virtual contractor, if not a real contractor?
For TRFC to bring in a decent, reputable PR outfit would – I guess – cost considerably more?
And all they really need is an unreconstructed media bully to keep the supine, Scottish hacks in check – nothing fancy required.
A decent organisation would have dispensed with Traynor’s services long before Lambogate / Transalationgate. [A decent organisation wouldn’t have engaged Traynor in the first place.]
So, he just might brass neck his way through this latest Ibrox crisis – all of his own making…
I would imagine the statement has Board approval as it is still on the website which means the Board aren't upset with Traynor or that King still has the final say in matters . That is if the Board can contact him seeing he has no phone and his back up laptop was also stolen in the latest robbery. I suppose the old saying "People in Charles Greenhouses shouldn't throw stones" rings true.
Anyone else, like me, hoping that Traynor remains in his guruificence for at least as long as TRFC remains in a different state than RFC?
He's such a character, he does mke me laugh
@AJ 17;44 there have been many characters in Football's longest running Farce that have been box office , Charles Green,Craig Whyte, Pedro , the Magic Hat and of course King himself but Traynor is just plain nasty . This time he may have gone too far and should he fall on his sword I won't miss him , he has been a poisonous element in our game for far too long. Of course the flip side to that is that he is also a negative for Rangers* never more so than now , maybe it's a case of Heads we win Tails he loses.
Allyjambo @ 17.44
————————
Yip. I'm with you AJ. They are made for each other!!
Timtim 12th February 2020 at 18:05
@AJ 17;44 there have been many characters in Football's longest running Farce that have been box office , Charles Green,Craig Whyte, Pedro , the Magic Hat and of course King himself but Traynor is just plain nasty . This time he may have gone too far and should he fall on his sword I won't miss him , he has been a poisonous element in our game for far too long. Of course the flip side to that is that he is also a negative for Rangers* never more so than now , maybe it's a case of Heads we win Tails he loses.
__________________
Totally agree with you that he's a nasty piece of work, but I think it's that nastiness that's led, in part, to his complete failure as a PR man, which has done so much to hold back TRFC's progress (if there has been progress). I think hubris and nastiness are good friends and cause blindness to one's own failings and failures. Traynor's greatest failing as a PR man, regardless of how much he knows of the art, itself, is that he's consistently been a part of the story, as he is now, which completely ruins even good PR manufacturing, let alone incompetent PR inventions.
I suppose, in this case he's actually turned the attention away from whatever it was TRFC wanted hidden. So credit where credit is due
It'll probably go down as Level5's greatest ever success
With a normal commercial arrangement, one would think that any contract put in place for PR services would have a clause covering what happens in the event that the contractor in some way brings the client into disrepute*.
In such circumstances the contract may well (should?) have a termination provision that leaves other obligations in place e.g. confidentiality.
*I eschew consideration of the ongoing reputational status of RIFC/TRFC. I believe that Mr Archer appropriately summed that up some years ago.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Imagine a farmer who is in financial trouble after the failure of his crops. Conventional loans are not an option but he does have one valuable asset:a shiny combine harvester.He can't sell it though as the farm badly needs it.What does he do? He finds someone that will give him emergency cash and in return he draws up a contract that gives his funder a 1/3 stake in the machine.Crops fail again sadly and the farmer needs cash again.He approaches his funder again and offers another 1/3 stake in the combine harvester.
PS, heard that after signing a new contract last March (tough month for football clubs) Alfredo Morelos is signing another one this February(also a tough month for football clubs).
the PR dept.are going to be up all night after tonight's games,time for traynor to earn a reprieve
Tony, apparently the Stevie G interview after the game, in Spanish, is saying the Ibrox club won 3-0 tonight. Honestly that guy Traynor!
Jimbo
That's appropriate as he will be getting the Spanish archer
Jimbo, during that post match interview you only had to look at Gerrard's coupon – which told you all you needed to know about the 'title challenge'.
No translation needed.
Aye, Traynor is going to have pull a massive squirrel out of his hat tomorrow.
Can't wait…
Winning the league was crucial to survival , they are all in . The only decision now is whether they throw millions more to survive or just call it a day . I believe an admin event is imminent now. (gut feeling)
Timtim
I feel the same way, if they go out of Europe and scottish Cup it's curtains for sevco
In the interests of symmetry,
RIFC could do the decent thing, [for once], and call an insolvency event on Friday / Valentine's Day…
And for completeness: a rambling, incoherent statement could also be released – late on Friday evening.
Timtim 12th February 2020 at 23:14
‘….I believe an admin event is imminent now. (gut feeling)’
And you, Timtim, presumably ( or am I being presumptuous?) are not even a creditor of TRFC!
I would imagine that a fair number of creditors are even now acting on their gut feeling and considering getting Counsel’s advice about trying to get monies owed to them ring-fenced against the possibility of a snap Admin?
Especially those creditors who swallow the myth of ‘continuity Rangers’, whose reasoning would be : they’ve done it before, they’ll do it again.
Jimbo@15.30
Kevin Bridges was probably the quickest off the mark and incorporated the face painters’ predicament into his contemporaneous stage act. The image of directors in the blue room with their faces painted like tigers springs to mind.
Out of interest what is the penalty for an insolvency event?
I believe it is a 15 pt reduction . King's latest drama (robbery and burglary) looks to gain sympathy from the hordes , he can now also blame Gerrard for the situation and claim he did his bit by backing him financially even though the players he got haven't actually been paid for yet. The foaming statements from Traynor reveal the level of pressure they are under . If they decide the league is lost then it's better to call Duff and Duffer sooner rather than later . Throwing more money in just to get to end of season intact doesn't solve any issues for next season . Do any of them really believe they can win a cup in Europe? A Scottish cup win does little to ease the balance sheet either. D Day may just have arrived.
I wonder what would mean more to TRFC now, a win at Tynecastle in the Scottish Cup, or a draw! Obviously going through to the next round is vital now, possibly even for their survival, but a replay at Ibrox, netting them, possibly, a million quid, might just be the difference between seeing out the season or not.
While not something the supporters would like, it must be a bit of a conundrum for the board. (Genuinely not suggesting they'd try to manufacture a draw, just that, financially, they might prefer it – and another couple of replays too)
Just one more piece of idle speculation of a type that's kept me entertained throughout the Rangers/Sevco Saga after a relatively long (for the Saga) spell of inactivity here. But as has been said on numerous occasions over the last 7 or 8 years, we certainly do live in interesting times.
When does the SDI situation crystallise? Is that the trigger? Big bad MA forcing the clumpany into admin? Not us Guv….a big boy (MA) did it and ran away.
Makes sense to do it this season as the points deduction can be used to partially explain away 10IAR. If only, etc….
So what's next if they do go into admin? A pre-pack? SDM to the rescue of new new 'Rangers'? Billionaires coming running?
And, disgustingly, a continuing 'history' for the new club of having 'won' past titles and cups?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Redlichtie@09.40
“Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath”
More than ever.
Admin? Too soon to say.
Gone 10.30 on the day after TRFC's title ambitions fell into terminal decline, almost 8 years to the day a similar thing had happened to Rangers. Anyone remember them?
Anyway, any breaking news, lads? 'Plastic pitch caused us 3 points' type of thing? 'Kilmarnock tried too hard – they're all out to stop us' sympathy search? 'Morelos' wife upset at recent publicity is affecting his form and the rest of the team' understandably lame excuse? Or have they used up all their PR ideas? Or, heaven forbid, have the SMSM hacks suddenly realised they've been taken for as big a ride as their fellow bears have and are saying 'no more' to Level5's p*sh handouts for them to print critique free?
Or have they just given up trying?
I suppose one of the benefits of the recent statements will be the total absence in future of racist/sectarian chants from TRFC fans . It would be impossible to sing them from their high horse , shirley ?
Just watched the Gerrard post match interview and have to say that, while clearly disappointed, he seems like a man now resigned to, and aware of, the true situation at his club. He sounded more of a realist than he, or any of his predecessors, had done before. Dare I say, he even sounded like this recent run of poor results was not entirely unexpected.
He appeared disappointed, but not gutted. Not like a man who'd just watched what was, almost certainly, that last nail being hammered into his title hope's coffin. His general demeanour suggested to me he knew someone held that final nail, but just didn't expect it to turn up so soon.
Can I just say something in Kilmarnock's favour? Their pies are legendary.
Likewise Redlichtie's Smokies.
I forgot Forfar Bridies and Dundee Jam.
Aberdeen Angus.
Nobody can accuse me of not supporting football Scotland wide.
paddy malarkey
As long as its a big white horse, they can sing what they want
Can I give a mention for the Ross County “Staggie pie” too. A tasty venison pie. On its introduction the now retired, and missed, stadium announcer Len was able to tell us “people ask are the pies dear? Of course they are deer ?!”
adam812
"Rangers fans react: Fury after Kilmarnock defeat as many criticise Steven Gerrard's tactics"
By Glasgow Times Sport
=========================
Hmmm, that's a headline you wouldn't typically see in Chris Jack's Glasgow Times.
Has Traynor finally run out of squirrels…?
adam812 13th February 2020 at 12:51
I bought eight legs of venison for £100 . Is that too dear ?
All this talk of Killie Pies. If memory serves me correctly they are not the same ones now as the original ones, which were produced by a local baker. Perhaps someone could clarify that?
Gullabillies. They are often accused of being hoodwinked by the media. But are they? The Ibrox fans can watch the games like the rest of us. I read today that they are gobsmacked by last night’s result v Kilmarnock. Because they were led to believe – by the media – after 29 December that they were going for 55. Really? They are not all stupid. As far as football goes Celtic were always in front of them. No surprises there.
Where they might be gullible is off the pitch. Believing in continuity myths. Club/company shit. Liquidation is liquidation.
I would like to believe if it happened to my club I would believe we are mark 2 of the founding club.
That bastert green has a lot to answer for.
But even worse, he got away with it by the sluts at Hampden. (Sluts not suits).
I didn't get Paddy's joke until I had read it for a 3rd time
As I was bored I decided to take a leaf out of JC's book and send an enquiring email to the national press club in Sth Africa asking for help in verifying King's recent claims (reminding them of Judge Southwoods comments) I will of course post any reply that is forthcoming. The Press back here seem to be rather muted today , resorting to questioning the referees ability and reporting a Rangers* fan heard someone from the Kilmarnock section racially abuse Morelos. Maybe Mr Traynor is having a day off or someone has just taken his shovel away from him. I also note it has all gone very quiet on the promise of that new share issue that was mentioned at the AGM , maybe they are too busy sorting out a new kit deal for next season . It has just all gone very calm all of a sudden but that's what happens just before a storm.
Looking for guidance . I was looking for something else and found a Rangers Football PLC , incorporated on November 16th , 2012 , and having the same company number as RIFC -SC437060 . Does that mean the holding company as a holding company of it's own ?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history (Incorporation ) Or just a bit of tidying up ?
upthehoops 13th February 2020 at 19:16
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All this talk of Killie Pies. If memory serves me correctly they are not the same ones now as the original ones, which were produced by a local baker. Perhaps someone could clarify that?
………………..
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/say-bye-killie-pie-brownings-7886098
……………………..
The feud also led to the breakdown of the 13-year relationship between the two.
paddy malarkey 13th February 2020 at 21:08
‘…was looking for something else and found a Rangers Football PLC , incorporated on November 16th , 2012 , and having the same company number as RIFC -SC437060 .’
No, paddym, just a change of name.
Remember,the plan was always to go public by setting up a plc of which the original shareholders would be those who swapped their SevcoScotland shares for shares in the new plc on the launch of the (misleading ,in my opinion) IPO.
It’s likely that CG and the others knew that he couldn’t use the name ‘Rangers Football Club plc’, because there had already been a ‘Rangers Football Club plc’, which was put into Administration then Liquidation ,and there are some rules enforced under the Companies Act 2006!
So he used a marginally different name ‘Rangers Football plc’ to get round that problem , then a few weeks later changed the name to the vainglorious ‘Rangers International Football Club plc’ to pretend that the investors would be investing in something big, ‘the most successful club in world football’ with 500 000 000 supporters world wide, ready to splash their cash!
As Josef G used to say, if you are going to lie, make the lie really big. People are more likely to believe it.
I mean, they all believed Keef’s ‘MBMB’ didn’t they?
A lesson that a certain PR guru certainly took on board.