Now that we are at the end of the league season, and with respect to the job still to be done at Tannadice and McDiarmid Park, it seems like a good time for a post holocaust report.
Fig 1 Average Weekly Attendances SPL 2011-2014
Peppered around this page are three charts and a table* showing the attendance figures for the SPL in the last three seasons. A school kid could tell you that there is a positive trend in those charts and figures, but the people who run our national sport will look you straight in the eye and tell you “that can’t be right – Armageddon is coming!”
It is one of the most ridiculous and mendacious situations I have ever come across. The people who run our national game, aided and abetted by those in the MSM (sans the eye contact though) are actually trying to persuade us of how awful our game is and how unsustainable it will be in the absence of one, just one, club.
Think about that. The SFA and the SPFL trying to talk us out of supporting the game unless we all recognise the unique importance of one, just one, club. That is what has happened, no matter how they try to spin it. And despite evidence to the contrary contained in these figures, not one of them has admitted to an error, never mind the downright lies that they told to support the position they held, the one where anyone speaking of sporting integrity was mocked and ridiculed.
Whilst growing up as football supporter in the 60s, one of things I was constantly bombarded with via the medium of the tabloid newspapers was that football clubs should be grateful for the publicity afforded them via their back pages. These were probably reasonable claims, especially in the light of the relative lack of access to players and officials conceded to the hacks in those days, and the pre-eminent cultural position in which they helped to place football. Alongside that, the broadcast media, particularly Archie Macpherson’s Sportscene and Arthur Montford’s Scotsport could be relied on to talk the game up. Of course, there was something in it for the papers – sales. The more column inches devoted to the national sport, the further northward their sales, and consequently advertising revenues travelled.
Fig 2 Avg. Attendances excl Celtic & Rangers
The situation was further cemented by the fact that the press in that ante-interweb era held a monopoly over the exchange and dissemination of information. That symbiotic, win-win relationship between football and the press was as much a part of football reality as the Hampden Roar. It also endured for decades. The press would talk up the game to such an extent that folk often remarked that they hadn’t realised how much they had enjoyed a particular match until they had read Malky Munro or Hughie Taylor’s report the next day. Archie Macpherson is on record as having said the same thing about legendary commentator David Francey, “It was a much better game to listen to than to see!”
Today that symbiosis is broken. The press themselves, in print and in front of microphones consistently belittle the product, talk of crises and Armageddon, of our own version of the Eisenhower domino effect of clubs going to the wall one after another.
Aided and abetted by the two chief bureaucrats in charge of Scottish football, Stuart Regan and Neil Doncaster, who have consistently helped to hammer home the message that Scottish football is not good enough, and cannot sustain itself financially without Rangers, a club that could not itself sustain itself financially to the extent that it is being liquidated.
At a time when Scottish football was clearly in crisis, and badly in need of sponsorship which could mitigate the effects of that crisis, the press and the authorities sought to strengthen their own negotiating hand by making negative claims about the state of the game which never came to pass, and for which they have never apologised. The actual situation, which would not have been hard to predict had anyone actually bothered to analyse the business of Scottish football, is summarised quite easily by saying this;
- Since Rangers’ liquidation and subsequent absence from the top league, the average home attendance of the other clubs has INCREASED overall (See Fig 2).
- In this season, the other clubs have added 50,000 fans to home attendances compared to 2011-12 (the last year Rangers were in competition).
- In that time the league has been won (twice) by Celtic, and the other honours have been claimed by St, Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic and (either) Dundee United or St Johnstone.
- In that time, both Dunfermline Athletic and Hearts (who both had historical financial problems) entered – and exited – administration after fan-led buyouts.
- Dundee United have cleared off their bank debt.
- Kilmarnock have restructured their bank debt, freeing the club from a precarious long-term situation.
- League reconstruction has allowed some money to trickle down to the second tier clubs in an attempt to mitigate the immediate effects of relegation and to reward ambitious clubs.
Looking at the table of attendances above, it is pretty clear that immediately upon Rangers exit, the overall figures took a dip. However there was little difference the in the figures if you leave Rangers out of the equation (Fig 3) – despite Celtic’s attendance taking a hit that year (down by around 5,000 per home match).
Taking Celtic out of the calculations, it is clear that there is a 6,000 uplift in this average (Fig 2).
It is still undeniable that less people overall are watching football (Fig 1), but the trend is upward if one leaves the Ibrox club out of the picture.
Furthermore, this statistic exposes the double edged sword that is retention of home gates. The fact that gates are not shared is predicated upon the notion that the bigger clubs do not depend on the smaller clubs for income. And since the smaller clubs are no longer recipients of big club largesse, their fortunes are not affected, at least not as much as was suggested by the Regans, Doncasters and Traynors of this parish. The “Trickle-Down” theory of Reganomics said otherwise – but clearly and demonstrably it was wrong.
The abandonment of gate sharing has made Scottish football less interdependent than it once was, but the irony is that it works both ways. There is hardly a club in the country that depends on Rangers for their own existence, and here is the news; small clubs are no longer financially dependent on the former Old Firm.
Fig 3 Excluding Celtic
The fact, that is F-A-C-T, is that Scottish Football attendances in the top division are on the increase. The absence of Rangers has made no appreciably negative difference to any other club, far less caused a catastrophe of biblical proportions.
Even if the fools who were the harbingers of our doom were simply guilty of making an honest mistake, it is clear that they are uncontaminated with the slightest notion of how the game in this country operates. The Old Firm may be dead, but the OF prism is still being peered through by Stuart Regan, Neil Doncaster and the vast majority of print journalists. The latter who failed to honour that age-old football/press symbiosis because they believed, erroneously that David Murray’s dinner table was the hand that has fed them for over a century.
The irony is that as job opportunities diminish in the print sector, so too will the fine dining and patronage. I think they call that evolution.
Two years ago, in the wake of the fans’ season ticket revolt which saw the new Rangers forced to apply for membership of the league and begin at the bottom, those same MSM hacks taunted fans about putting their money where their mouths were. The fans responded splendidly as our statistics demonstrate, but typically there has been no recognition of this either at Hampden or in the media.
And the message from those fans is this: Scottish football is not dying. Not any more. At least not as surely as it was when David Murray started to choke the life out of it in the late 80s. The supporters are returning in numbers to see a competition untainted by the outrageous liberty-taking and rule-breaking of the last couple of decades, and all but one club has emerged from the mire of the Moonbeam Millennium looking forward to a new era.
If authorities allow the new era to thrive by restoring sporting integrity to the agenda, then the numbers, like the opportunities available to more and more clubs, will grow. The question is … will they?
Admittedly, these figures, like any set of statistics, can be cherry-picked to suit almost any argument that you care to construct. The fact remains though, that whilst it would be fanciful and ridiculously over-optimistic to claim that they bear witness to a burgeoning industry, it is utterly dishonest to conclude that they represent financial Armageddon. Armageddon? Aye right!
Cluster One – I just noticed when I re read my post why you may have been irked. I meant “you” in the wider sense and in no way meant to imply you had been unbecoming in your language.
My favourite thing about this forum is that it is the only place I have yet been aware of where people of all allegiances can be welcome and encouraged. When I make comments complaining about certain things, it is not neccesarily because I am offended by them, but because I want to make sure this remains an all inclusive place. Mr Lennon is heavier than he was when he was a player, but nobody (rightly) ever comments on that. Mr McCoist has gained weight. So bl**dy what. This is The Scottish Football Monitor, not the daily mail. Lets focus on the issues and rise above petty name calling.
RyanGosling says:
May 23, 2014 at 10:31 pm
Cluster One – I just noticed when I re read my post why you may have been irked. I meant “you” in the wider sense and in no way meant to imply you had been unbecoming in your language.
No harm done
OK as an outsider and having fallen foul of the mods already you have a large Green Person with sticky out ears that lives in a swamp in your blog or if I am wrong his large grey pet with a bushy tail that likes nuts. What you do with this is up to you but Please don’t shoot the mesenger again.
I agree with what Ryan says about the whole McCoist girth thing. He’s a middle aged man for pity’s sake ! I turned 50 two months ago and despite a fair amount of physical exercise, my liking for the vino and decent food means I struggle to get back the figure my wife wishes I had a la the holidays we took in the 90’s. That said, I think to some extent Ryan confuses TSFM with certain Celtic minded sites who regularly (to the point of tedium) rip into McCoist over his waistline. Wea re above that (sorry!).
As you will have worked out, I lurk most of the time but I am eternally grateful to the erudite contributors on this forum who have provided this lawyer with some excellent (though not recordable!) CPD ! My speciality is not corporate shenanigans !
Ryan nice Squirrel to throw out (TU/TD)it at least stopped the Lennon debate in its tracks 👿
Not having a go at you but seems pretty juvenile the whole TU/TD thing
Btw I TU you as I didn’t see anything as offensive as Mr Mccoist’s Demanding to know peoples names and putting them and their family’s at risk 🙁
So I would call him worse to his cowardly face :-).
Islam Feruz,
Obviously he has good advice, Chelsea Soccer 7’s Hong Kong, instead of International Football. Is he waiting on a full Wales or Northern Ireland cap.
Iron Men from the Iron Burgh
Ryan
I am not sure that Neil Lennon’s departure tells us anything new about Scottish Football.
As a Celtic supporter I am neither disheartened or surprised by his departure. I suspect that he has gone partly for career development reasons, and, partly because both he and Celtic recognise that he has taken them as far as he can. I wish him well.
What does dishearten me is the knowledge that whoever replaces him will face the same problems. problems whose root cause lie beyond the control of any team manager. As long as those who run Scottish Football see their best strategy as being (mis-)managed decline, then the hope of any Scottish team lifting European honours will remain a distant dream
[]
Anyway I see Celtic are still in discussions with both UEFA and the SFA with regard to the awarding of a licence for RFC to play European football in 2012.
Now you would think that an organisation, which clearly has a gap in its processes, would close this loop hole where a club self certifies itself.
We were continually warned that the Scottish league would end up like the Irish league if ‘The Rangers’ were not in the top flight. As far as I know the Irish league check directly with the Irish tax authorities on a QUARTERLY basis to ensure that all clubs are up to date with their payments.
Why, as part of the domestic club licensing, are clubs forced to grant the SFA access to do the same here?
This is the problem with our sport, basic governance has been utterly abandoned and clubs are allowed to lie to the authorities.
This has allowed the situation to develop at RFC and subsequently ‘The Rangers’.
Craig Whyte was banned from being a director did he tell the SFA; No.
‘The Rangers’ post accounts saying that they have access to a £2.5M loan facility. It looks as if after the accounts were out this facility was withdrawn which really begs the question was it there to begin with.
Now people will say that this is an AIM or market issue and they are correct however if it leads to a ‘going concern’ query then the SFA/SPFL should act.
It is the lack of governance that has allowed RFC to spiral out of control in the first place which led to Craig Whyte taking over and then Charles Green getting his foot in the door. Were either one of these individuals suitable to run a football club in this country?
The answer clearly is no and it is the powers that be that have the biggest questions to answer because ultimately a seller will sell when they get a suitable offer or if they just want to get the hell out of Dodge.
It is the for the games governors to say yea or nae as to whether they can sell to an individual as it is their duty to protect the sport as a whole.
They have failed on two fronts.
Firstly to protect the sport, which is their job, and secondly they have failed to alter their own rules and processes that protect the sport to ensure that this does not happen again.
When you know you have a hole in your boat you fix it. You don’t set off to sail around the world and then look surprised when you don’t get forty feet from the shore before the boat goes under.
But then again that would mean you have an adequate captain.
Our sport doesn’t even have a good Purser at the rate we’re paying companies to show our game!!
Wee story, takes a couple of twists stay with me:
I have never really got the Celtic catholic and rangers proddy debate and association.. I have proddy pals who supported Celtic, ok not much the other way.. My dad a proddy my ma a catholic. 2 schools nearby the catholic one closer BUT not a big road to cross to the proddy one. so JimBhoy may have been a bear… i never liked watching footie as a boy in the 70’s my (lack of) things to occupy me made me go outside hang off trees, kick balls and other physical stuff. I just wanted to be active.Didn’t get much encouragement but got to junior footie level, bad knee at17. And coaching rocks..
OK JB what is your point blogger…
My Nephew was fairly successful in footie, he has retired, he has 4 houses and some money in the bank and working in oil stuff in Aberdeen. Wouldn’t say i coached him when i was at college but he got a bounce playing with his too larger cousins/bro at crossie.. For those who know that game. 😀
Anyways point is he was a decent player (not as good as his bro who was less dedicated) stuck at it and did well… So looking at Chris Sutton and Beattie recently who would have earned 10 times as much as my nephew and moneyless… Shocks me.. My Nephew still doing well.. It can be a good career..
I have been skipping over the discussions re TV deals as I am in the “incompetent” rather than the “conspiracy” camp, but thought I’d post this link which is todays’s lead newspaper story in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/lib-adviser-repays-43m-tax-20140523-38ufq.html
The topic of EBTs has no public profile in Australia, but following our recent Federal Budget, the issue of budgetary constraint, and the equity of who is impacted, is becoming a significant issue. I’m sure that comments in the article such as:
will not be looked upon favourably in our current political climate.
The final paragraph in the article sums it up for me:
A now estranged former business associate of Sir Michael, James Harker-Mortlock, questioned the selection of the British-Australian businessman. ”I’m just not convinced that someone who is such a known non-believer in the tax system should be engaged to advise on issues which inevitably will turn to the taxation and regulatory framework for business,” he said.
Ryan & The Glen…I must give a heads up to guys like yourselves who just want to watch a football club playing out of Ibrox without all the bile and triumphalism. Being a friend of quite a few supporters of the old rangers (couldn’t resist it) I have had a rare terr in extracting the urine and I have no doubt they would’ve done the same. In fact, I know I would’ve had to disconnect all phones, turn off all lights and draw the curtains.
With the resignation of Neil Lennon, I can understand how those same supporters latch onto any snippet of hope to turn away from the disaster that has enveloped them down Ibrox way. My take is, good luck, he’s fed up and wants a change.
As for the recipients of the bigotry and bile, I would prefer, as I think it’s a forlorn hope, that they just went away to their lodges on a match day and leave the good supporters of all clubs to watch whatever is served up. Before this happens, I want the chaps from the SPFA to hand in their resignation with a hand written FULL APOLOGY for the absolute mess they have made of our wonderful game and an explanation of why they arrived at their decisions.
There goes a flying pink pig outside my window.
justshatered says:
May 23, 2014 at 11:18 pm
11
0
Rate This
[]
Anyway I see Celtic are still in discussions with both UEFA and the SFA with regard to the awarding of a licence for RFC to play European football in 2012.
Now you would think that an organisation, which clearly has a gap in its processes, would close this loop hole where a club self certifies itself.
We were continually warned that the Scottish league would end up like the Irish league if ‘The Rangers’ were not in the top flight. As far as I know the Irish league check directly with the Irish tax authorities on a QUARTERLY basis to ensure that all clubs are up to date with their payments.
Why, as part of the domestic club licensing, are clubs forced to grant the SFA access to do the same here?
This is the problem with our sport, basic governance has been utterly abandoned and clubs are allowed to lie to the authorities.
This has allowed the situation to develop at RFC and subsequently ‘The Rangers’.
Craig Whyte was banned from being a director did he tell the SFA; No.
‘The Rangers’ post accounts saying that they have access to a £2.5M loan facility. It looks as if after the accounts were out this facility was withdrawn which really begs the question was it there to begin with.
Now people will say that this is an AIM or market issue and they are correct however if it leads to a ‘going concern’ query then the SFA/SPFL should act.
It is the lack of governance that has allowed RFC to spiral out of control in the first place which led to Craig Whyte taking over and then Charles Green getting his foot in the door. Were either one of these individuals suitable to run a football club in this country?
The answer clearly is no and it is the powers that be that have the biggest questions to answer because ultimately a seller will sell when they get a suitable offer or if they just want to get the hell out of Dodge.
It is the for the games governors to say yea or nae as to whether they can sell to an individual as it is their duty to protect the sport as a whole.
They have failed on two fronts.
Firstly to protect the sport, which is their job, and secondly they have failed to alter their own rules and processes that protect the sport to ensure that this does not happen again.
When you know you have a hole in your boat you fix it. You don’t set off to sail around the world and then look surprised when you don’t get forty feet from the shore before the boat goes under.
But then again that would mean you have an adequate captain.
Our sport doesn’t even have a good Purser at the rate we’re paying companies to show our game!!
==================================
You have put your finger on a major problem and that is that any self certification system fails if the person signing the certificate tells porkies.
So what do you do to deter pork pies or discover them?
You either increase scrutiny and seek evidence, which has resource implications, which for UEFA licensing applies across Europe or if you detect a club has broken the trust you hammer them for doing so.
The problem is how do you hammer them if doing so makes them extinct e.g. refusing that club a licence to play or if they have gone but live on in another form, how do you hammer that other form?
Increase resources and stiffen processes or hammer deceit when it is discovered and who gets hammered?
Of course if it is never discovered you are saved the choice. A bit like not spotting side letters.
That is why Resolution 12 is so important towards restoring trust. Its pursuit tells us the authorities will do their job to stop deceit one way or another rather than hide from its consequences.
It is not just Celtic shareholders who have an interest in a Res 12 establishing the truth and action being taken either way to address what it reveals.
Ecobhoy 3.56
The media briefing at http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/resources/FFP%20Press%20Kit%20EN_FINAL_en%20_1_.pdf supplies effective dates for some changes..
but I suspect the change came in recognising as result of FFP in 2010/11 that lower tier clubs did not require the same standard as SPL clubs.
sixlargebeers says:
May 23, 2014 at 10:51 pm
17 1 Rate This
As you will have worked out, I lurk most of the time but I am eternally grateful to the erudite contributors on this forum who have provided this lawyer with some excellent (though not recordable!) CPD ! My speciality is not corporate shenanigans !
=================================================================
Sixlagerbeers…I had never twigged to the CPD (though non recordable!) angle…I wonder if ICAS would accept TSFM as “unstructured reading”…here’s hoping!
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/86670904671/spfl-viewing-figures-2013-14-finale
Final viewing figures for the season.
Suitably, for a post entitled “What Armageddon”, Premiership viewing figures are up 5K year on year.
Essexbeancounter at 3:56pm
Franisco Gento….childhood memories from Hampden 1960…yes I was there…!
…………………
Essex,I was there too. 9-3 What a game.I was immediately a Real fan though over the years I fell by the wayside and converted to Barca.
Auldheid says:
May 24, 2014 at 3:15 am
Ecobhoy 3.56
The media briefing at http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/resources/FFP%20Press%20Kit%20EN_FINAL_en%20_1_.pdf supplies effective dates for some changes ..
==============================================
Ta Auldheid – well thanks for reassuring me my memory is still functioning to some extent. The document link I hope will allay fears that the 2012 introduction date of the new SFA club licencing system wasn’t solely or even primarily motivated over whether SFL3 grounds should have TV gantries or not but tied into Uefa timelines and priorities.
I have undernoted some paras from the report which really is well worth reading for anyone interested in club and SFA accountability and governance. And very importantly it links the national associations to Uefa so if there is hard evidence produced then there are avenues for pursuing a complaint outwith the SFA if that body fails to act.
Any success achieved by Resolution 12 could open the door a bit and possibly make Uefa more receptive to other issues raised.
In keeping with the stereotype of our demographic, I will lapse into senior moment OT.
In 1975, I won England v Scotland tickets in the SFA ballot. I swapped two of them with Jan Tomasik (Devil’s Spawn and manager of the Glasgow Apollo 🙂 ) for two tickets to see Led Zeppelin at Earl’s Court.
Thirty nine years ago today, me and four others travelled to London in a beat up old mini, saw Scotland get massacred (thanks Stuart Kennedy!) 1-5 and then had our eardrums assaulted during the second finest musical moment of my life (first was SAHB at Celtic Park the following year).
Thirty nine years ago – already!
Kinda puts 140 years of history into context.
Apologies for the OT nature of my nostalgia.
Not much happening in this most boring of periods with the season just over. I expect the posting levels will rise as the Ibrox payday approaches with speculation of an implosion rife, though I’d be surprised if they don’t pass that hurdle OK, but maybe only just! Again!
Still waiting for photos of the queues in Govan with cheery bears waving their much sought after STs as they leave the over-worked ticket office. I take it all the DR’s photographers are all off on their summer holidays then 😎 Hmm, anyone local with a camera to hand fancy doing the SMSM’s job for them? 😈
helpmaboab says:
May 24, 2014 at 9:57 am
2 0 Rate This
Essexbeancounter at 3:56pm
Franisco Gento….childhood memories from Hampden 1960…yes I was there…!
…………………
Essex,I was there too. 9-3 What a game.I was immediately a Real fan though over the years I fell by the wayside and converted to Barca.
=================================================
Boab…you must have played some extra time over the years’ reminisces…it was a mere 7-3 (Di Stefano 4, Puskas 3) when the game ended.
Strange no one remembers the names of such an excellent German side.
I also “defected” from Real when I learnt that they were Franco’s team…what a despot…!
OT TSFM…apologies!
Essexbeancounter
I was in the terrace in front of the main stand. I can still see Gento lift the ball over a tackle with the outside of his boot and tear up the wing. He put in one cross that Puskas c nodded in.
Eintracht Frankfurt were a good side too and actually took the lead through their No 7 but Real were magnificent that night. 7-3 it finished.
Yes, it was 7-3.
The 9-3 scoreline was a different match from that era – painful memories of Wembley 1961.
Frank Haffey was unfairly blamed for that debacle.
Ah, Stuart Kennedy. He was brilliant when he was at Forfar Athletic. A real nice guy who took some abuse (mostly good natured) from behind his goal every other week at Station Park, all based on that game, but he handled it well and had a great deal of fun with the supporters. I think he was very much rehabilitated to many lower league fans from his time at Forfar
timomouse says:
May 24, 2014 at 8:08 am
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/86670904671/spfl-viewing-figures-2013-14-finale
Final viewing figures for the season. Suitably, for a post entitled “What Armageddon”, Premiership viewing figures are up 5K year on year.
==================================================
Until very recently I have never really given the whole issue of TV coverage much thought in terms of the mechanics and especially the factors affecting viewing figures vis a vis attendance.
So I found your piece fascinating and informative.
On the Ross & Inverness figures I wonder if the actual geographic factors involved – possibly particularly applicable to those teams – means a televised match might impact attendance if fans have a fair distance to travel perhaps not on brilliant roads and very poor public transport.
Just a thought although others might have a better explanation.
On the issue of payments to broadcasters for lower league coverage – have you any idea how much it would cost per club to install the necessary facilities.
Considering what the SPFL apparently have been paying-out I would have throught a rolling programme over a few years might well have ensured that every SPFL ground was kitted out which might assist the aim of ensuring TV coverage doesn’t disappear should Rangers permanently escape the lower divisions.
It’s the kind of project that matched public funding could probably be raised for.
What I remember about the Wembley 5-1 defeat was the Scots Fans rendition of ” We’ll support you up to Four “
timomouse says:
May 24, 2014 at 8:08 am
14 0 Rate This
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/86670904671/spfl-viewing-figures-2013-14-finale
Final viewing figures for the season.
Suitably, for a post entitled “What Armageddon”, Premiership viewing figures are up 5K year on year.
_____________________
Not sure how this tallies with the latest from The Herald:
Financial struggles for half of clubs in Scotland
Graeme Macpherson
Football Writer
Saturday 24 May 2014
HALF of Scotland’s leading clubs are suffering from “signs of financial distress”, according to a report produced by a leading insolvency practioner.
The survey carried out by Begbies Traynor also revealed that three unnamed clubs in Scottish football’s three top divisions – the SPFL Premiership, Championship and League One – are under “critical financial distress”. The report also showed overall attendances across all four top divisions were down by 6%, with League 1 crowds dropping by 16% since last October despite Rangers’ presence in the division. Attendances in the Championship were down by 8%.
“It’s good news that one of the top level clubs [thought to be Kilmarnock], at least, has managed to clamber back from the financial precipice, and Hearts’ future also appears brighter,” said Ken Pattullo, of Begbies Traynor in Scotland, who produce their Red Flag Alert Football Distress Report every six months.
“However it is worrying that three clubs are facing grave financial pressure and that the early symptoms of financial distress are affecting 50% of the clubs in Scotland’s top three divisions. The wettest winter in decades has done its bit to dampen enthusiasm and declining attendance figures may prove to be the final nail in the coffin for some clubs already locked into a cycle of distress.”
Pattullo also felt that there may be a move towards more clubs coming under community ownership in the season ahead, despite the recent announcement by Motherwell that take-up of membership for their Well Society has fallen far short of what had been anticipated.
“Annan Athletic, Ayr United and Motherwell are the latest clubs to take steps towards an ownership model based on the fans who offer a sounder prospect for building a secure future than the whim of the mythical wealthy benefactor,” added Pattullo. “We can expect to see this movement towards an alternative business model gather momentum as the community interest company (CIC) proves its merit and offers a real prospect of salvation for financially weaker clubs.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/financial-struggles-for-half-of-clubs-in-scotland.24309676
scottc says:
May 24, 2014 at 11:13 am
…………totally agree ,he even stood in goal at a penalty competition at our local church…St Fergus…a great gesture…
When you see that the team winning the Championship Play Off Final Will trouser £220M next year you can see how poor our TV deal is.
The TV companies have two different approaches. In England it’s about lavishing clubs with money to develop all aspects of their operation on a grand scale, from infrastructure to playing budget. In Scotland it’s how little they can get away with.
The whole scottish deal is around a 10th of one English clubs lift.
That to me just isn’t cricket
wildwood says:
May 24, 2014 at 2:35 pm
Going by the first half, that’s £220m spent on utter dross.
It’s nice to know that Sky are spending the vast majority of the money I pay them on such riveting entertainment as this.
Good job it’s not BT who are showing this, they’d want a discount wouldn’t they?
Am I to take it that we are all doomed!
Regarding Begbies’ review of Scottish football finances
2 of the 3 teams stated to be in severe distress are undoubtedlyTRFC and Kilmarnock FC. Remember the analysis is based on the accounts to the end of the financial year 2013 (in most (if not all) cases that is to May 31 2013. Killie’s debt reduction came after the end of that financial year.
On any analysis of any of the numbers that have come out of Ibrox, the figures are disastrous.
As for “HALF of Scotland’s leading clubs are suffering from “signs of financial distress”” – well that is such a relative statement that it is just about meaningless. It could well be true of half of all Scottish companies – not just football companies.
What is clear to me is that the issues facing Scottish football companies are not the same across the board. Hearts went into administration because of reasons that were unique to Hearts. Gretna failed because of Gretna reasons. Livingston and Dundee similarly. Kilmarnock’s position is/was down to Kilmarnock. Kilmarnock (loss about £2million in year to May 2013 incidentally – a fairly staggering loss in the context) have been a financial basket case for many years – at least partly because of an ill-advised property play with their hotel. Their issues long pre-date 2012.
I’m sure that, based on the timeframe, the third would have been Hearts. As to whehter half the teams are showing ‘signs of financial distress’, I am sure he will be reading the numbers correctly but the pertinent thing for me would be, which of these teams are on the curve ‘down’ into further distress, and which are climbing out the other side of the curve?
Looking at pics of the SoS protest at Ibrox today I remembered the meeting the Vanguard Bears had with members of the Rangers Board on 15 May at which they apparently asked a number of questions and afterwards they stated they would publish the answers when received.
It’s now 9 days later and not a cheep. Wonder if it just takes forever to construct any answers at Ibrox – thinking of the 127 day review – or whether the meeting was just a move to help sell a few more STs.
Indeed, I wonder if there will ever actually be any answers to the questions? I may have missed it but I haven’t seen anyone post what the questions were which might be helpful in figuring out whether answers – if they are eventually provided – actually answer the questions asked.
Kilmarnocks’s 2013 loss of £2.21M was primarily down to the hit they took by a write down in the value of the Park Hotel of £1,478,504. The hotel was subsequently sold in March 2014 for £2,400,000, the proceeds of which went straight to the bank.
The big drop in their debt was down to the re-assignation of £6,424,680 of bank debt to Billy Bowie which was converted into equity, plus an apparent write off of £885,000 debt due to JT Moffat.
It is not clear from the accounts how much Billy Bowie paid the bank for the outstanding debt. I would doubt very much if it was anything like £6.4M. Had the club gone into administration the bank would have been left with the stadium and not a lot else..
Campbellsmoney says:
May 24, 2014 at 4:56 pm
‘….What is clear to me is that the issues facing Scottish football companies are not the same across the board…”
—————————
Uniquely, the big issue for RFC(IL) was the cheating mindset of its majority shareholder. To cheat is crime enough : to cheat so unsuccessfully as to kill your own club is the mark of a real loser.
Our knight stands doubly condemned, first by honest folk, and then by other more successful cheats and knaves who laugh scornfully at his inadequacy while profiting from it.
So another ECL final won.
When will we hear of the doctors and their baggage? Or will the Spanish courts still continue to bin it?
TSFM says: May 24, 2014 at 10:21 am
Thirty nine years ago today, ….. http://www.ledzeppelin.com/show/may-24-1975
I was at Wembley with my big brother that day too and then went to see the mighty Zeppelin on Sunday http://www.ledzeppelin.com/show/may-25-1975 who salvaged my weekend in London. 😆
I’ve never forgotten the sight of the onrushing sound wave that knocked back every row of the crowd when the RIFF came in after Bonzo’s epic drum solo in Moby Dick. Still got my tee shirt, poster, programme and ticket. 😎
(Nearly) Thirty nine years ago – already! 🙄
Good Evening All,
Seeing as things are VERY quiet on here at the moment I thought I would bore you all even more.
My normal matchday experience consists of:
Wake up:
Have **** smoke& coffee:
Take Muttley for a walk.(I call my ex-wife something else,but she also a bitch.)
Go to the shops.
Buy food? and carry-out.(Food is optional,have to take care of the essentials.)
Watch my team.
Have bet with myself.
Can not have a drink till first goal(Hate 0-0 draws)
Well tonight I changed things.
I thought to myself.
Do not have a drink until they mention the Lions.
This is coming to you from someone who is sober on a Sat.night for the first time in 42 yrs.
Disclaimer:
No SQUIRRELS were harmed in the production of this epic tome.
Sanoffi
Very intrigued as to why classic name curtailed?
Have you been served with a writ by anyyin?
comeongetaff says:
May 24, 2014 at 10:59 pm
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Re nae drink
Keep it up. It will do you good. Till you dont
@ianagain
dinna fash laddie.
Making up for it now,
Thanks.
As it’s quiet…was in my local bar this afternoon for CL Final with wife.
Met a Canadian friend who had explained the rules / tactics of ice hockey midweek for the ‘Rangers’ v. Montreal play off game.
Today I explained to him the tactics of Real / Athletico throughout the game.
It just reinforced to me the value of sport in bridging nationalities/cultures and bringing people together.
And over a few Old Speckled Hens is helpful too…
And my point is this: does the SFA keep records of how many <16 year old 's attend senior games from one season to the next?
If youngsters are lost to the game from a young age they are hardly likely to attend games when they are older – IMO.
This should – arguably – be the most significant data collected by the governing body, the SFA…I know! : roll:
Essexbeancounter at 10:35
Of course it was.I was probably thinking of the following year when the number nine was seared into the Scottish consciousness .Hurtling towards senility!
StevieBC says:
May 25, 2014 at 1:16 am
Before doing surveys of under 16s the SFA and SPFL need to sort out Kick off times.
I am sure there are kids who play football would love and are perhaps more likely to watch the professional game. However as they are playing themselves for their own clubs, their families find it difficult to get from one match to another when kick offs are all over the place. Therefore you lose a kid and a parent. Possibly a whole family.
Been all at sea the past few days (quite literally) and catching up. Noticed on another forum that Mr WS was reported at a certain pub on Friday encouraging supporters to buy their season books/tickets for next season.
I found that surprising. He’s still got some clout I imagine, so that could sway a few to part with their hard-earned.
I have to say I was always a bit sceptical about the numbers of Bears who wouldn’t renew their STs but today’s DR seems to have lit the fuse which could lead to an implosion at Ibrox.
Best to read the article at: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-crisis-rangers-over-season-3604574
Basically it states that the £1.5 million loans had to be repaid once enough money was in the kitty to do so with most of it obviously coming from ST sales.
It now appears that George Letham who stumped-up £1 million of the £1.5 million emailed Wallace the Rangers chief exec a week ago asking how many STs had been sold and has yet to receive a response.
Looks as though the VBs and the fan wanting to see contract details for CG and IA aren’t the only ones waiting for answers and I have to ask myself how many others are out there also waiting on answers.
The DR states:
wottpi says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:03 am
Not disagreeing with you, wottpi, but when I played football I’d have loved it if Hearts didn’t kick-off every home game at 3pm on a Saturday, as that was the time I, and hundreds of other Hearts, Hibs and sundry other teams’ supporters, kicked-off our own games. Annoying though it was to miss watching the Hearts, there was something ‘real’ about a 3pm kick-off, especially when there was still the hope of one day playing professional football (real hope or just wishful thinking, I’ve never been sure 😕 ). It was always strangely pleasing when, during the winter months, a game was called off and the mad rush to catch the game at Tynecastle followed, sometimes even to Easter Road 👿 , or in my very early teens, going to the game with our muddy boots hanging round our neck (how many remember that fashion statement?) and getting the calls of ‘we’d be better off with you guys on the pitch than that lot we’ve got’, as we queued to pay at the turn-styles, or get lifted over (seemed to happen at Easter Road rather than Tynecastle). Of course, times have changed and I suspect there are lots of youngsters playing on Saturday and Sunday mornings (no football on Sundays when I was a lad – observe the Sabbath and all that 👿 ) with, in my day, only school football on a Saturday morning.
I suppose, though, that I’m not talking about the age group you are referring to, wottpi, and have no real knowledge of kick-off times for the very young, who, as you say, probably haven’t found that love for the game that made us committed supporters for the rest of our lives. I do know, though, that it only took one game, at the age of eleven, for me to fall in love with football, and, in particular, Hearts, but if my dad had been a football supporter, and taken me to matches before I was ready to fall in love (with a sport), I’d have probably have reacted differently and been lost to the game (a game that would never have recovered from that loss 🙄 ).
Anyway, I too find something very wrong on a Saturday with games not all kicking off at three, there is something unreal about it, and Saturday has lost a lot of it’s being ‘the best day of the week’; though Sundays are a lot better than they used to be 🙂
And talking of newspaper articles this one is a must read:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/25/neil-lennon-persecution-shames-scotland-celtic-manager?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
It exposes Scotland’s Shame wrt to the treatment of Neil Lennon not just by individual bigoted cretins but by the pillars of the Scottish Establishment over more than a decade.
And thanks for the courage of Kevin McKenna, not just for this latest story, but for having the bottle and human decency to write and condemn the organised campaign of hatred against Neil Lennon whilst it was actually happening.
Danish Pastry says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:28 am
Been all at sea the past few days (quite literally) and catching up. Noticed on another forum that Mr WS was reported at a certain pub on Friday encouraging supporters to buy their season books/tickets for next season.
—————————————————-
Firstly, being at sea in Denmark doesn’t mean that much as you cannot drive for more than 500 metres without crossing over sea 🙂
Secondly, that is very interesting about WS, exactly which side of the fence is he sitting on as I always seen him as being a member of Team Dave King?
Allyjambo says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:49 am
Think we may have discussed similar in the past.
If 3 o’clock kick offs for non professional games was the problem in the past when crowds were probably greater then they will definitely be a problem today.
The whole thing just needs a pyramid structure to ensure youngsters can get to professional games if they so desire.
It seems to be OK for my wee boys club as they are usually early Sunday mornings. However guessing that is more by accident than design.
ecobhoy says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:40 am
Even though we know we must doubt the accuracy of any (football related) report in the DR, this is still a very serious situation for the bears, for if they do, indeed, have insufficient ST monies to pay the £1.5m due for these loans, and there’s no claim from the board (in the article, at least) that either party have intimated they are prepared to wait, then how are they going to meet a wage bill of a similar amount at the end of next week? The article makes it clear that the loans have to be repaid from the first £1.5m (plus interest I’d suppose) received from ticket sales, so, unless there was enough in the coffers pre-season ticket sales, then the club will be in breach of these contracts (with Letham and Easdale) if they have to use ST money to pay the wages. Now I’d expect Easdale to be prepared to accept this situation, but if Letham wants to make trouble for the board, and I suspect he is in that camp, then it will open the door wide for him.
It is also the first mention, that I have seen, of the 4 monthly payment option, plus an acknowledgement of an estimated 14,000 ticket sales, with ‘estimated’ no doubt meaning ‘less than’. So, even if they do meet the loan repayments and pay the salaries this month, and sundry other running expenses due at this time, they are going to have to have a massive uptake on sales to meet next month’s wages and sundries. Phew, it’s getting very tight, indeed, at Ibrox!
With the exception of contracts with the Scottish football authorities, TRFC do seem to have got the rotten end of the stick in every other contract they’ve entered into – and not just from the days of Charles Green!
ecobhoy says: May 25, 2014 at 9:40 am
——————————————————
Gordon Waddell’s article is based on the leaked Loan agreements (24th Feb) with Easdale and Laxey which gave 1st September as the payment date.
The interim accounts, dated 27th March, noted this in the Post Balance Sheet events:
16. Post Balance Sheet Events
Since the period end, the Company has also obtained access to loan facilities totaling £1.5m. £500,000 of the facility is interest free. £1,000,000 of the facility incurs a facility fee of £45,000 and carries a potential annualised interest charge of 10% should repayment not be made before 2 July 2014.
Although Letham agreed to reduce the fee payable on his loan, he brought forward the repayment date to the beginning of July, otherwise there will be a £100,000 p.a. interest charge
Allyjambo says:
May 25, 2014 at 10:22 am
ecobhoy says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:40 am
AJ – I was actually thinking about the wages and whether they will be forced to pay them from the ST sales which raises the question of whether this breaches the undertaking given to AIM and presumably the lenders.
Obviously when the fumes run out there will still be some motion and just how far they can travel will depend whether the immediate road ahead is up or downhill in terms of operating costs faced – one thing for sure is I doubt it will be on the level 😆
If the ST sales are so bad that they still can’t pay the £1.5 million loan then all that can save them IMO is an immediate rights issue. But how long will that take to organise and what realistically will it raise? They may well run out of road before that play can be made.
That means the final desperate throw of the dice to hold an egm and achieve a vote allowing a general release of shares because extremely urgent – but again what will that raise? If fans ain’t buying STs who in their right mind would want to buy shares in a football club.
It’s pull a white rabbit out of the hat time and if they can’t then I doubt if this incaranation can survive. I just didn’t think the ST boycott would have been as effective as it appears to be if Wallace can’t even respond to Letham who lent £1 million to Rangers off the back of ST sales.
Morning all.
Seems there are only 100 tickets left for todays play-off game.
A great response from all the fans from the teams involved.Live on the telly also.
Should be an exciting end to the season.
Is the playoff on proper telly or just debased neoliberal corporate warmonger telly?
The latter,unfortunately.
BT Sport 1.
Madbhoy24941 says:
May 25, 2014 at 10:16 am
1 0 Rate
Firstly, being at sea in Denmark doesn’t mean that much as you cannot drive for more than 500 metres without crossing over sea
Secondly, that is very interesting about WS, exactly which side of the fence is he sitting on as I always seen him as being a member of Team Dave King?
——–
Very true, Madbhoy, although I was crossing an unusually calm North Sea.
It was a sell-out apparently, and WS not only promoted the ST sales but also expressed his belief that CG is not pulling strings in the background. Makes you wonder if he’s an unofficial club rep. in some capacity? Made a cool £50,000 for his last stint, so I heard.
wottpi says:
May 25, 2014 at 10:22 am
Wottpi,
My post was more a chance for a bit of reminiscing rather than a suggestion that nothing has changed, though during the period I was referring to I was often joining a crowd at Tynecastle or Easter Road of between eight and ten thousand people. One things for sure, things are much better for youngsters at football matches than they were in my younger days, they can see the game for a start 🙂 and whole families can attend, as a family, which was, I can only surmise because I was strictly terracing back then, something reserved for the stand.
While you are undoubtedly right that the moving of fixtures to accommodate TV might hinder the attendance of some youngsters, there can be no doubt that the opportunity to introduce those youngsters in a proper environment is far, far greater than it was in the past. Disheartening though it is, football is now at the mercy of the TV companies and we will just have to learn to live with it – the youngsters will already have accepted it or know no different. There is, sadly, a greater spectre than daft fixture times to contend with, one that any youngster with a well developed sense of fair-play might find off-putting, and one I am sure I don’t have to mention in this post.
loamfeet says:
May 25, 2014 at 11:07 am
Is the playoff on proper telly or just debased neoliberal corporate warmonger telly?
———————————————————————-
Spot on Loamfeet 😆
If I was a faceless hedgefunder and my company refused to carryout out my ‘slash cost plan’ and where infact acting to ‘crash the company’ and allow a competitor to buy bits in Liquidation, they’d turn up for work on a Monday soon with all the doors locked and the leccy turned aff.
easyJambo says:
May 25, 2014 at 10:37 am
ecobhoy says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:40 am
——————————————————
Gordon Waddell’s article is based on the leaked Loan agreements (24th Feb) with Easdale and Laxey which gave 1st September as the payment date.
The interim accounts, dated 27th March, noted this in the Post Balance Sheet events:
16. Post Balance Sheet Events: Since the period end, the Company has also obtained access to loan facilities totaling £1.5m. £500,000 of the facility is interest free. £1,000,000 of the facility incurs a facility fee of £45,000 and carries a potential annualised interest charge of 10% should repayment not be made before 2 July 2014.
Although Letham agreed to reduce the fee payable on his loan, he brought forward the repayment date to the beginning of July, otherwise there will be a £100,000 p.a. interest charge.
=================================
I’m not sure I necessarily take the same meaning as we have had so many instances of cleverly worded statements in this saga.
I accept that a £100,000 interest charge will apply if the loan isn’t repaid in full by the beginning of July. But in my opinion that doesn’t mean that the original agreement falls viz to repay the loan asap from money received from ST sales or a rights issue.
We know the final date for repayment without charge has been altered to July but surely if the other conditions as notified to AIM have also been altered or just ‘lifted’ this would require an AIM notification to correct the now out-of-date info officially posted there.
And if Letham isn’t expecting to be paid from STs until the beginning of July why is he getting so anxious a week ago? And why hasn’t Wallace told him how many STs have been sold?
Perhaps with a sign up ‘team now playing in Paisley, St Sevco’
300-400 people, thats no protest, thats a social club day oot@
Must try harder FF@
ecobhoy says:
May 25, 2014 at 10:47 am
easyJambo says:
May 25, 2014 at 10:37 am
EJ’s post puts a slightly different slant on the DR report, ie accuracy, though I’m not sure if it changes the end game all that much. What does appear to be the case is that things are very bad at Ibrox, just as bad as predicted by many on here, and also the much maligned (maligned because much of what he says is never confirmed by the MSM and there’s still people out there who only believe what they read in the paper) PMGB. If I was Phil I’d be sitting, having just read that DR article, with a smug little grin on my face 🙂 thinking ‘the evidence that every snippet I published was indeed ‘the truth’ might never be out there, but the end result is the same’.
Allyjambo says:
May 25, 2014 at 11:17 am
———-
‘football is now at the mercy of the TV companies and we will just have to learn to live with it – the youngsters will already have accepted it or know no different…..’
———–
Someone posted very recently an observation( related to the TV contracts discussion ) to the effect of the scope and scale of the use of all the communications tools in use ,by the social media generation, of smart phones, tablets, I-bloody thises and Tablet-bloody thats and so on,seeming to suggest that Football finances might be restored by initiatives in that direction.
I’m not imaginative enough to quite understand what he was getting at exactly, or how that kind of multiplicity of opportunity to watch live screening of games would not be more harmful to the game as a spectator attended sport.
No wish to be a modern Luddite, of course. I’m just so technologically backward that I actually don’t know how to use even the most basic facilities on my new phone. ( I am so generally cack-handed that I dropped my old phone down the pan, literally!)
ecobhoy says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:58 am
20 0 Rate This
And talking of newspaper articles this one is a must read:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/25/neil-lennon-persecution-shames-scotland-celtic-manager?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
It exposes Scotland’s Shame wrt to the treatment of Neil Lennon not just by individual bigoted cretins but by the pillars of the Scottish Establishment over more than a decade.
And thanks for the courage of Kevin McKenna, not just for this latest story, but for having the bottle and human decency to write and condemn the organised campaign of hatred against Neil Lennon whilst it was actually happening.
==================================
Thanks for drawing that one to my attention. Definitely a must read.
The subject really needs much deeper journalistic investigation and treatment.
John Clark says:
May 25, 2014 at 11:53 am
I think we might well be in the same technological boat, John. Pass the paddle and compass, have you remembered the sextant?
Still, there’s some things we auld yins will always have, and that’s the ability to tell our left foot from our right! I noticed a couple of players in the CL final had so little knowledge of such old fashioned things (probably due to their over-use of technology) that they both had different coloured boots on each foot, the blue one was the left, and the pinkish (footballers with pinkish boots!!!) was the right! Reminded me of the comedian who wore wellies, one with an ‘L’ and the other with an ‘R’ because he couldn’t tell his left from his right either! Progress…
Don’t feel sorry for Atletico http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2014/04/30/4785365/why-debt-ridden-atletico-madrid-should-not-be-considered-a
Allyjambo says:
May 25, 2014 at 12:09 pm
‘.wellies, one with an ‘L’ and the other with an ‘R’ because he couldn’t tell his left from his right either! ‘
——–
At least he could read the letters 🙂 !
It is said that farm boy recruits in the Army of the Potomac had straw tied to the right foot and hay to the left, and were marched by the command ” ‘Hay foot.. straw foot”. 🙂
MCP Any natural underdog sympathies I had last night for Atletico completely evaporated this morning when I saw on twitter that disgusting banner about Billy McNeil.
I can guess who had the last laugh last night!
MoreCelticParanoia says:
May 25, 2014 at 12:28 pm
2 0 Rate This
Don’t feel sorry for Atletico http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2014/04/30/4785365/why-debt-ridden-atletico-madrid-should-not-be-considered-a
———–
I certainly don’t. On top of the financial anarchy in football in that country there’s the suppressed blood tests of footballers and tennis players — the ‘known unknowns’ 🙂 And in spite of everything, AM put on an outrageously negative performance.
No, the only match or interest to me this weekend (QPR have also climbed to the EPL through financial jiggery-pokery) is the SPFL play-off, which I can not even see! I just hope both teams are going to benefit financially from this TV match.
Good piece by Gordon Waddell today about Celtic’s need to sell the managers job rather than the way it used to be, candidates snapping your hands off for the opportunity. This is exactly the sort of stuff I like to read on a Sunday morning. Let’s see more of that but not just Celtic and Rangers, how about how Aberdeen managed to perform better last season or how the playing system is currently changing at Dundee United or how Hearts maybe showed the rest of the League how you can win games on a budget.
Going back to the piece in question, there are many good Scottish managers in the game today that could do a great job there domestically, the problem the new manager has is trying to compete in European competition. With a much lower salary pot than others and attracting players to a team and league where they feel it may not progress them as a player, makes the manager’s job very difficult.
This is the area of the game where Neil Lennon’s achievements have maybe been overlooked, he has taken some good young players and made them into sought after properties, he along with John Park who helped identify them and Johan Mjallby who helped develop them, deserve a lot of credit.
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Matty Roth says:
May 25, 2014 at 11:54 am
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ecobhoy says:
May 25, 2014 at 9:58 am
20 0 Rate This
And talking of newspaper articles this one is a must read:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/25/neil-lennon-persecution-shames-scotland-celtic-manager?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
It exposes Scotland’s Shame wrt to the treatment of Neil Lennon not just by individual bigoted cretins but by the pillars of the Scottish Establishment over more than a decade.
And thanks for the courage of Kevin McKenna, not just for this latest story, but for having the bottle and human decency to write and condemn the organised campaign of hatred against Neil Lennon whilst it was actually happening.
==================================
Thanks for drawing that one to my attention. Definitely a must read.
The subject really needs much deeper journalistic investigation and treatment.
_______________________________________________________
On a similar vein to the TSFM mugs given to podcast contributors, wondering of we could institute a ‘golden sheep’ :slamb: mug award to be presented to those individuals and instances within the (S)MSM where bravery amd integrity is actually and unusually shown and journalistic standards are upheld, – as in this McKenna piece?
A sort of journalistic ‘man of the match’ award, given by TSFM with the attendant kudos (or should that be ‘taint’ 😎 )
Maybe produce a list of nominations each month (… a screening process which really shouldtn’t take very long at all given the usual quality of the typical output) on a separate discussions page and use the voting buttons and comments there to influence the debate, with the final decision being made – and having to be explained – by e.g the mods, or even other invitees – with explanation. (The reason for this rather than a simple vote off,. is to prevent hijack of any pure voting button based system by disingenuous interests)
The new media applauding the old in an effort to drive up standards there?
I was delighted that Atletico Madrid lost yesterday.
As a 14 year old I was at Celtic Park to see the dirtiest football team on the planet kick lumps out the Celtic players. They paid particular attention to Jimmy Johnstone.
I have disliked that team ever since and hope that this defeat sticks in their craw for ever.
MoreCelticParanoia says:
May 25, 2014 at 12:28 pm
Thanks for posting that, MCP, very enlightening, and like you and others, my sympathies with Athletico (I worked beside one of their supporters a number of years ago) have gone right out the window. It does show, however, what is required of any team to make a decent crack at European success, and maybe our own clubs should just sit back in relative austerity for a few years (might be quite a few, though) until every other country’s football clubs are forced to sort their finances out (by UEFA or just as the result of a financial collapse) and then, with the resulting reduction in player wages throughout Europe, perhaps our (hopefully by then) established FFP model will give us an advantage over countries that lag behind us in sorting their game out.
I’ve long thought that Europe should be seen as a bonus, for all clubs, not the be all and end all, and any country that concentrates on developing it’s domestic game (perhaps this is what happened with the Bundsliga?) will, almost automatically, see improved results in Europe. I wonder how many clubs, German excluded, have had success in Europe while maintaining as good a financial model as, say, Celtic. I doubt there’d be many, if any!
A pipe dream, perhaps, but just maybe being (one of) the first leagues to bottom out might make us all the stronger for it in the years ahead (probably a good few 😯 ).
RyanGosling says:
May 23, 2014 at 10:06 pm
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Bill1903 – that assumes he is a bad manager. He is clearly not. Poor cup runs aside, if you look at the Celtic he took over and the one he left behind, regardless of Rangers’ travails, he has clearly done a good job.
Bailemeanach – I think a lot depends on what Mr Lennon sees in the club he chooses for his next challenge. I am quite clear in my head, although others may disagree, that his next club will be one of his choosing. He will look for a setup where he can build a team I believe, based on his experiences at Celtic where he always had to let his best players go, and therefore I think he will not be averse to a Championship club with ambition. I think the guy is quite astute, and will not look on a Championship job as a Chamionship job, he will look on it as a one year delayed Premiership job. But that’s if he doesn’t get into a Premiership job right away. Its not for me to say how good a manager he is as I haven’t followed him that closely, the couple of things I can say about him are that he has a mental strength about him above most other mortals, and he can take a struggling team and make it better. Both of these statements are documented fact. Regardless, I wish him the best. I’ve said previously on here that for whatever reason he rubs me up the wrong way at times, but I think he is a decent man and a good football manager who has had to put up with **** that nobody should have to put up with. And from what I’ve read on his intellectual reasons for leaving, I’d do the same if I was him.
__________________________________________________________________
I would love to see Lennon end up at Newcastle one day.
The right man could have them top 6 and in Europe year in year out.
Lennon could be that man.
It would be great for him and for that club.