Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
Scapa
As you say the EPL won’t be knocking on the Parkhead door anytime soon.
A European League with the clubs that attract the TV money isn’t going to happen anytime soon because those same clubs earn very well from their domestic leagues.
A re-vamp to the present European competitions is far more likely but this/these would remain as Cup competitions to go alongside domestic leagues.
At present I don’t see a viable road that would allow Celtic to ply their trade elsewhere, nor any signs of one in the medium term.
But why would some Celtic supporters wish to leave the game in Scotland ? The majority here seem to believe that the Scottish game is flourishing. A serious question that looks to reconcile these viewpoints.
tomtom says: (480)
October 30, 2013 at 10:24 am
Its not just the potential tax liabilities, the whole model is built on sand.
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 7m
Is the AIM about to report the Daily Record to PCC about the DK story?
I put that question to their Press Office and they refused to deny.
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 3m
A simple denial by AIM would have put this to bed, but they didn’t.
Therefore I suspect source might be correct on this one…
Developing
scapaflow says: (1068)
October 30, 2013 at 10:30 am
0 0 Rate This
tomtom says: (480)
October 30, 2013 at 10:24 am
Its not just the potential tax liabilities, the whole model is built on sand.
==================================
Poor foundations can be underpinned. Look at the banks. Football is too important for it to fail and whatever needs to be done to prop up the rotten structure will be done. There’s not a cat’s chance of the EPL failing.
Scapaflpw 9.21
I think the SFA and UEFA would be most happy to give Celtic permission to play elsewhere IF there was an elswhere.
Celtic’s absence would produce a much more competitive SPFL until The Rangers reach the top flight where their big support would fund players good enough to beat the rest when Celtic are no longer part of the rest.
So getting out will be a snitch as opposed to getting in and Im afraid to put a name on that 🙂
Greenock Jack says: (115)
October 30, 2013 at 10:26 am
But why would some Celtic supporters wish to leave the game in Scotland, as the majority here seem to believe that the Scottish game is flourishing ? A serious question that looks to reconcile these viewpoints.
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
Indeed, being that yesterday’s discussion on Paul McStay had Celtic fans saying he definitely ‘made it’ by winning titles and cups with Celtic soley within the Scottish game.
If it was good enough for a Celtic legend such as Paul then why do some fans want to go elsewhere?
The reality is that some do not feel they will ‘make it’ until they achieve a consistent level of performance in the Champions League and for that they believe they need access to more cash.
While never a great fan of Neil Lennon, I have to tip my hat to the guy for showing what can be achieved on a limited budget. As opposed to going eslewhere I’d be more inclined to continue to allow Lennon and his backroom staff continue to play ‘Moneyball’ and see what rewards and results that brings as opposed to potentially ending up being an also-ran in the EPL.
Managed to see a fair bit of Sevco v Stenhousemuir last night.
Must say that Sevco don’t look any great shakes despite all the ‘names’ getting a run out.
Credit for two coming off the woodwork in the 1st half but a goal via a poor goal keeping decision wasn’t much to talk about.
If they last until next season I can see them having difficulties in the next tier against well organised teams.
Can;t see where the money is going come from to strenghten the squad so this is as good as it gets with the possibility of Elbows retiring at some point and Wallace getting sold on to bolster the coffers.
blu says: (409)
October 30, 2013 at 8:45 am
I think you and Zilch are both right; you, because we don’t know what the contracts are with these ‘reporters’, and Zilch, because it’s the employment culture he is talking about, and we are all affected by it in our working lives. I have a permanent contract, but the decision makers above me don’t. Their livelihoods depend on getting the results their masters want, and (re)generating staff morale costs money, so they use inane sound-bites instead! Chick and the rest of the bricks might well be in ‘jobs for life’, but their masters probably won’t.
Short-term contracts = no loyalty to the company/business, with only a desire to enhance one’s own, apparent, worth. Regan and Doncaster are both perfect examples of this! They are, to the disbelief of us all, considered, by the people with the power to remove them, to be doing a good job – because they, the football club directors, buy into the same culture. Some of them will be so deeply attached to the culture they are blind to the pitfalls, while those who aren’t so blind will be aware that any replacement will be of the same mind-set, ‘better the devil you know’ probably being their reasoning.
PhilMacGiollaBhain says: (160)
October 29, 2013 at 7:03 pm
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/oct/29/daily-record-rangers
The reputation of the Daily Record Sports desk continues to grow…
____________________________________________________________
No surprise there.
Well up to it’s usual standard.
Rufus Otis and Hugo says: (3)
October 29, 2013 at 6:44 pm
I don’t believe Dave King should be allowed within a million miles of any directorship anywhere in the world. Given his and Paul “wealth off the sonar,” Murray’s track record at RFC (IL) why would anyone want either of them as a director?
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Whyte, Green, Mather and now possibly King and/or others.
Each in turn has promised reform, millions pumped into the team and stabilizing the club and much more.
This has resulted in the fans piling in to buy season tickets, and also a reported £5mill in shares.
The problem is this trick only works once because when the promises are shown to be nonsense and the first saviour leaves with a pocket full of cash, the need is for a new saviour, a real saviour who can be trusted this time, to repeat the same promise.
This time it’s serious.
But it’s not, so again a fresh saviour is needed and supplied.
There’s no stopping the merry-go-round.
Until the money runs out, obviously.
Greenock Jack says: (115)
October 30, 2013 at 10:26 am
5
9
Rate This
Quantcast
Scapa
As you say the EPL won’t be knocking on the Parkhead door anytime soon.
A European League with the clubs that attract the TV money isn’t going to happen anytime soon because those same clubs earn very well from their domestic leagues.
A re-vamp to the present European competitions is far more likely but this/these would remain as Cup competitions to go alongside domestic leagues.
At present I don’t see a viable road that would allow Celtic to ply their trade elsewhere, nor any signs of one in the medium term.
But why would some Celtic supporters wish to leave the game in Scotland ? The majority here seem to believe that the Scottish game is flourishing. A serious question that looks to reconcile these viewpoints.
…………………………….
The reason a number of Celtic fans would wish to leave Scottish football regardless of its state of health….is the overt dishonesty and collusion displayed by the SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION.
How can anyone in the Scottish game hand on heart believe what they are watching has not been fixed?
Rangers football club was liquidated by its own people…yet the participants and their institutionally associated friends responsible, have attempted and in a number of cases successfully corrupted other elements of the Scottish game from the governing body, the media in print, radio and TV…etc etc..
When such industrial levels of dishonesty…corruption…intimidation…lying and cheating are being carried out…openly…and without fear of intervention by anyone or authority then…the game is a bogey and the best alternative is to leave!
gc58 says: (7)
Can anyone help please?
When I click on the link for OFOG by James Forrest I can’t read any of the post.
I am using windows vista and not very ICT literate.
___________________________________________________________________
I always have the same problem with OFOG GC. The headline is there but the article is missing. I can only read the article once a newer one has been prosted and the current one is archived.
This happens on both my conmputers, both running Windows 7. Very curious indeed.
Interesting choice of words in the bbc report on the ramsdens semi
——-
Rangers reached the final of the tournament for clubs outside the top flight by beating Stenhousemuir 1-0.
“The healing process which gets us back to where we want to be is going to be a slow one,” said McCoist.
“This is another step. I said to the boys before the game that winning tonight would be a major step forward for the club.”
It is the first time a team in Rangers colours will be in a national final since 2010, when they beat Celtic to win the League Cup.
Paulmac2 says: (754)
October 30, 2013 at 12:14 pm
I think your reasoning doesn’t belong solely to Celtic supporters and is merely an argument for ditching the SFA.
Ibrox to host both semi-finals of the Scottish Cup, and Parkhead the Final (topic header from Aberdeen-Mad: “SFA line Old Firm pockets shocker”).
That’ll be interesting if TRFC manage to make the semis, even more so if they get drawn against CFC – and also interesting should CFC manage to avoid the Mighty Aberdeen (and Morton) and get a home game for the Final.
Presumably, the SFA will have contingency plans so that the “big” Glasgow teams don’t get the undoubted “home” advantage should these things occur.
Och, silly me. Of course they won’t.
Paulmac2 says: (754)
October 30, 2013 at 12:14 pm
The reason a number of Celtic fans would wish to leave Scottish football regardless of its state of health….is the overt dishonesty and collusion displayed by the SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION.
___________________________________________________________________________
Whilst it’s impossible to disagree with you Paulmac about the SFA and the state of Scottish Football, I would like to respectfully comment on a few points.
I find myself wondering why is it only Celtic that should be allowed to leave? I’m sure a number of other clubs would too if corruption is truly the driver. Or are Celtic somehow different or special or “better” compared to all the other clubs us “diddy” supporters soldier on following all these years?
Have Celtic in some way differentiated themselves in the way they have responded to the whole corrupt saga, from everyone else? By intervening and stopping the re-election of CO perhaps? Or the illegal shoehorning of Sevco into the SFL?
From where I stand the answer would be no, and they are as complicit and involved as every other club in the corruption. I haven’t seen any actions by Celtic that contradict this. I don’t mean they are any more complicit than anyone else, only that they are EQUALLY complicit with every other club.
The wish by some Celtic fans to abandon Scottish football for the big bucks of the EPL, while the rest of us tearfully wave goodbye, implies that there is a natural right to money and success for Celtic that the rest of us don’t have because we are not Celtic.
This seems to me to be a very Rangersish view. Divine right to success and all that.
It also sems a view that wouldn’t sit well with the strong favor that Scottish Independance seems to have on many Celtic forums right now. “lets win independance for Scotland but jump ship to the English leagues” seems to be the view. Not two philosophies that seem to sit well together in my opinion. I make no argument for or against Independance there by the way.
Here’s a suggestion. Why don’t we all continually press ALL our clubs to stop enabling the corruption and get them to sort out Scottish Football once and for all? So it can return to some semblance of a fair and respectable sporting competition, where Scots teams can flourish at home and abroad. One where sucesses are shared and not concentrated in the hands of one or two clubs.
I would humbly suggest that Celtic should have an equal part in that project.
andygraham.66 says: (50)
October 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm
A very interesting choice of words, andy – interesting in that they are accurate! Even McCoist’s use of ‘where we want to be’ rather than ‘rightful place’ cannot be disputed. Could the euphoria of reaching the Ramsdens Cup Final have overwhelmed him to such an extent that he’s been caught off guard and forgotten his lines? A trip to Media House for PR speak lessons today for Ally, I think! 😉
Angus1983 says: (1204)
October 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Some things never change.
Blindsummit63 says: (63)
October 30, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Sorry Paul, but that is a load of small round things used for playing tennis with…
Celtic executives have been intimately involved with the decision making at every step, whether as members of the old SFA Board, the new SFA Board or the old SPL Board. The idea that all this was somehow done while Celtic wept on the touchline is risible.
Greenock Jack says: (115)
October 30, 2013 at 10:26 am
Scapa
As you say the EPL won’t be knocking on the Parkhead door anytime soon.
But why would some Celtic supporters wish to leave the game in Scotland?
The majority here seem to believe that the Scottish game is flourishing. A serious question that looks to reconcile these viewpoints.
________________________________________________________________________________
Although the statistics show we are doing quite nicely without Rangers thank you very much, ticket sales show the better the opposition, as in the Champion’s League, the more tickets are sold.
The fans naturally prefer watching a higher standard of football which the EPL certain is.
Incidentally, the term ‘Celtic leaving Scotland’ is inaccurate.
Celtic, if a member of the EPL, would still be playing in Scotland and bringing English EPL teams here too.
The whole matter is academic anyway, as there appears at the moment to be no appetite in England for such a move.
I’d like to add my tuppenceworth as a 2 season book holding Celtic supporter.
I don’t want EVER to go to the EPL.
My dream is for us to get back to the days when huge travelling supports from the city clubs used to follow their fine football teams to Celtic Park.
Back in the day when the original Rangers were mince, Aberdeen , Dundee Utd strutting their stuff in Europe, the Scotland team laughing at our near neighbours from Euro and world cup venues, football was brilliant.
Domestically, I am watching a decent product, the football is not half bad at all. The two Thistle’s put on a great show a couple of weeks ago, football is being played the right way generally.
As the money and glory is spread around a bit more I am optimistic we are heading away from the dark days to a more honest place……………….just need to have a clear out of the obstacles to this path, the SFA and Ogilvie in particular have to go.
Oh! and ye can ram yer independance.
If you’re using Internet Explorer, you could try using Google Chrome or Firefox or Safari instead?
“The healing process which gets us back to where we want to be is going to be a slow one,” said McCoist.
“This is another step. I said to the boys before the game that winning tonight would be a major step forward for the club.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24737531
______________________________________________________________________________________
Squeeze a lemon and you get lemon juice
Squeeze a lime and you get lime juice
Interview Ally McCoist and what do you get ? – mince.
Bawsman says: (221)
October 30, 2013 at 1:09 pm
My dream is for us to get back to the days
__________________________________________________________________________________
While I have every sympathy with your view, Bawsman,
In my lifetime, I don’t remember any Scottish team getting back to ‘the good old days’.
And, in life in general, I suspect the ‘good old days’ can only be viewed looking back, never forward.
One reason why the current era of greed, fraud and corruption is so worrying.
God alone knows what’s waiting for us, but it isn’t ‘the good old days’.
Greenock Jack says: (115)
October 30, 2013 at 10:26 am
But why would some Celtic supporters wish to leave the game in Scotland ? The majority here seem to believe that the Scottish game is flourishing. A serious question that looks to reconcile these viewpoints.
=================================================
Personally I have no interest in Celtic playing in another league. However anyone I know who does favour it think that way because the Scottish game is institutionally corrupt and has been for years.
Whether the game is “flourishing” financially is not the issue.
I am about as interested in leaving Scotland for EPL as I would be to go to Bundesliga or Eredivise – which is slightly better than my interest in paying for a ticket to go to Ibrokes for a semi final in order to line the pockets of people who have done nothing for the game (why not Tynecastle? Or East End Park? Especially if its Aberdeen v Ross Country – they have to go to Ibrokes?) – which is also higher than my interest in a Sevco v Celtic New Firm Derby game, should Sevco ever last that long or to quote Ally, “get to the place we want to be”, which I assume to be running a successful business with no need for Govt taxpayers subsidies anymore nor taking money from facepainters……..or did I read that the wrong way?
The Peepil are currently raging over this sentence from the BBC report………guess why they don’t like it……….
It is the first time a team in Rangers colours will be in a national final since 2010, when they beat Celtic to win the League Cup
Angus1983 says: (1204)
October 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Ibrox to host both semi-finals of the Scottish Cup, and Parkhead the Final (topic header from Aberdeen-Mad: “SFA line Old Firm pockets shocker”).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Presumably the SFA have asked Craig Whyte if it is OK for the semis……..
Be good if CFC or SEVCO never got to semi’s or final 🙂
Armageddon and all that.
Derek Llambias of Newcastle united to sevco twitter is saying
As CEO
Further delving suggests it came from Alan Brazil on Talksport so nothing at all confirmed
sihampden says: (64)
October 30, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Angus1983 says: (1204)
October 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Ibrox to host both semi-finals of the Scottish Cup, and Parkhead the Final (topic header from Aberdeen-Mad: “SFA line Old Firm pockets shocker”).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Presumably the SFA have asked Craig Whyte if it is OK for the semis……..
==========================================
Just another indication – IMO – that the SFA doesn’t give a monkey’s what the fans think !
So…after a couple of years of major unrest, bile, threats, etc. emanating from Ibrox, the club/company is rewarded with not just one, but both semi-finals ?
Why ?
And to reinforce the negative PR, we have Ogilvie slithering out of his bunker to pronounce this great decision;
“…Scottish FA president Campbell Ogilvie praised the wealth of choice available to the governing body in selecting a host venue.
“We are fortunate in Scotland to have three world-class football stadia,” said Ogilvie…
“We are delighted to stage both semi-finals at Ibrox and the final at Celtic Park and on behalf of the Scottish FA, I would like to thank both Celtic and Rangers, as well as the SPFL, for their support in hosting these matches…”
And to further wind us up;
“…Rangers finance director, Brian Stockbridge, said: “We are delighted Ibrox Stadium has been chosen to host the Scottish Cup semi-finals in April.
“The Scottish FA’s decision to play these ties at the home of Scotland’s most successful club underlines the fact that Ibrox remains one of European football’s elite arenas.
“Of course we hope to travel far in this competition ourselves but no matter who plays at Ibrox they can be certain of the warmest of welcomes.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24740105
Angus1983 says: (1204)
October 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Ibrox to host both semi-finals of the Scottish Cup.
————————————————————————————————————
Is this the SPFL way of getting their £250k out of Sevco?
i.e. Nae paying the rental after games completed. Its the Sevco way 😀
Paulmac2 says: (754)
October 30, 2013 at 12:14 pm
29 5 Rate This
The reason a number of Celtic fans would wish to leave Scottish football regardless of its state of health….is the overt dishonesty and collusion displayed by the SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION.
—————————————————————————————————–
Does any fan outwith Sevco want to see the team from Govan back in the top tier of football again.?
Can you imagine the coverage they will receive in the SMSM?
Can you imagine their fans at your ground trying to make friends with you and let bygones be bygones?
Can you imagine the smiles of the SFA and Mr Ogilvie?
We at this moment cannot say they are dead and are a new club (well we can but the press will not), why? The SFA will not come out and say they are a new club, why?.
The reason is that they all want them back and will steep to any depth to help them.
Is that fair, no. Do we want our football in this country to be run by them and their people as it has in the past, I don’t.
Things will be a lot worse when they return from the dead. My dream is they never set foot on my team’s ground again in unless they accept they are a new club and change their we are the people beliefs and are treated like every other team in Scotland by the press and the SFA. (some dream, more like a fairy story)
One of the main reasons not to play them again is that it would help solve the sectarian problem that they created. If none of the above comes to fruition and they come back as they are with all their wee helpers then it will be like the fairy tales as in the brothers Grimm.
So if it means my club playing elsewhere I would welcome it, but how do all clubs feel about having to meet them again.
Be warned those Celtic fans who hanker for EPL……if you move, you will never get the opportunity to play the national cup final at home! 😉
Blindsummit63 says: (63)
October 30, 2013 at 12:39 pm
…………………………………….
I was merely responding to the question as to why some Celtic fans would wish to leave…
I am sure there are fans of other clubs given the chance would also ditch….however the original question was aimed squarely at Celtic fans.
As to the question of whether it is possible…only if all 4 home associations were to dissolve and 1 UK Football Association was to be created. that is the only realistic way it will happen. Anything else has years of litigation written all over it!
Exiled Celt says: (747)
October 30, 2013 at 1:58 pm
a team in Rangers colours
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Well spotted EC ! great job!
. . .a team in Rangers colours . . .could catch on
If true I would like to know who at the SFA made the decision as to what venues would be made for each game? What process was followed? Was it open to all clubs to tender for the business? Or was it a closed shop?
If I were the chairman of any other club with a decent sized stadium I would be furious that my club had not been given the opportunity to present my venue as a credible option for a semi final or final location.
Why was the choice of venues not spread around the clubs outside Glasgow?
Why was Ibrox chosen to host 2 games? ( I’m sure Craig Whyte will be thrilled at the double rental booking by the SFA)
Another example if it was needed that the SFA are nothing more than an administrative office for SEVCO!
Paulmac2 says: (756)
October 30, 2013 at 2:55 pm
My thoughts exactly. if anything it proves that the “new whiter than white” SFA board, are just as much a shower of _____ as the old SFA board!
Why the indecent haste to name the semi and final venues? Why not wait to see the teams involved. It could be Aberdeen, Ross County, Hibs and Dundee Utd, in which case no need to go anywhere near Glasgow. The thought of Celtic or “Rangers” playing a semi or a final on home turf stinks to high heaven!
bobferris says: (152)
October 30, 2013 at 3:08 p
Why the indecent haste to name the semi and final venues? Why not wait to see the teams involved. It could be Aberdeen, Ross County, Hibs and Dundee Utd, in which case no need to go anywhere near Glasgow. The thought of Celtic or “Rangers” playing a semi or a final on home turf stinks to high heaven!
——————————————————————————————
You mean like Hampden, in the same city? with a spiritual end you like playing into? and all the advantages this brings. I have always considered Hampden to be a home from home for Celtic and a team playing in Rangers colours.
Celtic Park being awarded the final is merely a patsy to cover the cash strapped SEVCO being given 2 games…
I would rather the final be played at Pittodrie and each of the semi finals split between Dundee and Edinburgh
Ogilvie…the man who was given £95k tax free by the liquidated club is now deciding to award a significant SFA cash boost to the financially strapped 1 year old Ibrox club…in a stadium that has asbestos issues, and maintenance concerns?
A world class stadium my ar*e! It’s all about giving financial assistance to his mates…and cobblers to the rest of Scottish football!
arabest1 says: (394)
October 30, 2013 at 3:13 pm
…………………….
To be fair AB…Hampden hasn’t been to kind to my team over the last few years…so not really an advantage to us..
I personally have no problem with the Scottish Cup Final being played at Celtic Park, the last time it was played there, in 1998, it was thee most perfect cup final I’ve ever seen – 2-1 to Hearts against a team playing in Sevco colours 🙂
But seriously, if Hampden’s not available for the final then Celtic Park is the natural choice. I can’t remember the semi final venues being announced this early before, and usually, in recent years, the venues have depended on who was playing in them, with travelling distance and anticipated crowds taken into account. In otherwords common sense.
If the SFA want to give one of Scotland’s clubs in financial difficulty a financial boost, why not choose Tynecastle or East End Park? Both the home grounds of clubs with long-standing Scottish Cup traditions and both in dire need of money. And not a crook, now, in sight!
Paulmac2 says: (758)
October 30, 2013 at 3:23 pm
3 0 Rate This
arabest1 says: (394)
October 30, 2013 at 3:13 pm
…………………….
To be fair AB…Hampden hasn’t been to kind to my team over the last few years…so not really an advantage to us..
———————————————————————————
….you mean not enough of an advantage? 😆
bobferris says: (152)
October 30, 2013 at 3:08 pm
…………………………
I don’t like Celtic Park as a venue…especially if we were to reach the final….the haste to announce is interesting….there is absolutely no need to announce this in October? Unless of course it gives advance notice to those who may wish to provide an advance cash sum to the financially stricken club playing at Ibrox…on the back of future income..
I wonder if the SFA will agree to pay in advance for the asbestos ridden stadiums use?
BBC backtracks amid the fury unleashed by Chris Graham and his cohorts………
RhebelRhebel @RhebelRhebel 2m
The BBC have backed down after abuse from the Zombies & changed the offending line – “a national final since 2011” http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24737531 …
Allyjambo says: (633)
October 30, 2013 at 3:33 pm
Agree Allyjambo, when have the semi final venues ever been announced this early in the season, I know Hampden is the natural choice, but what would happen if the semi finals are between ICT, Ross County, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd?
Would there be a rethink of a more suitable venue????
Blindsummit63 says: (63)
October 30, 2013 at 12:17 pm
I had the same webpage problem.
Try this though as it worked for me.
Internet Options > Colors (Under Appearance) > TICK Use windows colours
Hope it helps 🙂
There is at least one simple solution to the semis at ibrox –
let the fans of all four teams stay away.
Its a no brainer.
Palacio67 – that was my first thought too – why announce now when we don’t know the semi finalists? Looks like even if the semis were Arbroath v ICT (cheers Redlichtie!) or Ayr v Stranraer, it will be at Ibrokes….
Why the need for them to announce this now – I was always told I was paranoid, but apparently I was not paranoid enough. Why the need to announce guaranteed income for 2 additional matches for the new club? Instead of asking why Paul Murray has not made public his request of who the investors are (assuming he has got the answer of course), The Conflicted One breaks decades of SFA inability to even properly plan a pi$$up in a brewery with these momentous announcements.
My question now is always on hearing the SFA talk about anything – who is benefiting from this announcement? The answer is never the fans that is for sure!
I thought semi finals were contracted to Hampden for a few years now its only these exceptional circumstances (i) The Commonwealth Games (ii) Sevco going off a cliff, that we now require an alternative.
Considering the semi-finals rarely produce big crowds, the choice of Mordor for both is ridiculous.
Throw in the fact that most fans of the other clubs would likely refuse to go there, then we’re looking at a massive and embarrassing own-goal by the SFA.
Nothing new there then!
Is there really a lot of Celtic fans wishing for EPL? I haven’t met any. Maybe I’m no looking hard enough.
If, and it’s a big if, my team Celtic joined the English set up, it would be divorce time for me. I can only speak
for myself mind you.
This is a club that chose such a unique name due to the pride of their roots and the country they made home.
For them to leave, something invaluable would be lost forever. Again, my opinion.
taxlawplebeian says: (2)
October 30, 2013 at 3:46 pm
I had the same webpage problem.
Try this though as it worked for me.
Internet Options > Colors (Under Appearance) > TICK Use windows colours
___________________________________________________________________
Thanks for trying to help taxlaw. Alas that box was already ticked.
I feel it’s something script related perhaps as the page doesn’t load completely.
Exiled Celt says: (749)
October 30, 2013 at 1:58 pm
20
0
Rate This
The Peepil are currently raging over this sentence from the BBC report………guess why they don’t like it……….
It is the first time a team in Rangers colours will be in a national final since 2010, when they beat Celtic to win the League Cup
=========================================================
If the sevconians truly believed in their heart of hearts that is was still the same club, would they be so hyper-sensitive to things like this?
manandboy says: (315)
There is at least one simple solution to the semis at ibrox –
let the fans of all four teams stay away.
Its a no brainer.
________________________________________________________
Exactly!
Its an easy decision for me as I live abroad, but I would not go. There is no way I would ever put money in Sevco or the SFAs coffers given everything that has happened.
make of this what you will
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/246294-peter-lawwell-on-his-potential-role-in-dave-kings-rangers-return/
From ‘The Rangers’ website [won”t post link]
====================================
“RANGERS entertain Airdrieonians in the 3rd Round of the Scottish Cup at Ibrox this Friday and supporters can pay at the gate in the Copland Rear right up until kick-off.”
…
“Please note that the Club Deck will remain closed for this game.”
=======================
Cash sales up until kick-off – is that normal ?
Club Deck closed – is that normal also for TRFC cup fixtures ?
…and if only e.g. 20K turn up, then they can’t claim a crowd of 40K+ if part of the ground is closed ?
=========================
Also;
“…Come in fancy dress and win the chance to appear on the pitch, five winning costumes will receive a signed prize presented on the pitch, plus Halloween themed games and trick or treat…”
Shirley there will be about 20K peepil – already ‘disguised’ as Rangers supporters ? 🙄
Can’t see what the problem is with the semi and final venues.
The SFA will always want the Scottish Cup games played at football grounds therefore Murrayfield is a non starter.
The SFA will always want to use Hampden for Scottish Cup Semi’s and Finals.
In the event of Hampden being unavailable they will still want that games in Glasgow for fear that Hampden may only ever get used for the final if the fans get a taste for sensible neutral grounds being used once the teams in the semis are known.
Therefore Ibrokes and Celtic Park it is.
Did anyone really expect anything else??
All it does is allow the Guardian’s Ewan Murray to make easy money by regurgitating the same article every two years.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2009/apr/24/falkirk-dunfermline-athletic-hampden-scottish-cup
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/apr/15/scottish-cup-semi-finals-sfa
StevieBC – another website photoshopped with Zombie costumes has initiated more permarage for the Peepil
http://t.co/devr0iROlt
andygraham.66 says: (51)
October 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm
——————————————–
Is that the same Derek Llambias who’s PR Company has been on a ‘retainer’ at Ibrox for several months already?
Confirmed – Hibs now getting the pleasure of playing the Steptoe and Son music for the Ramsdens Cup
http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/easter-road-to-host-ramsdens-cup-final/
Edited to add
If ever there was a person who needs Scottish football support, it is our hero Sir Turnbull of Hutton! Hopefully as the quote goes, there will be dancing in the streets of Raith! And yes I know its Kirkcaldy before anyone other than Gordon Brown corrects me…………….
manandboy says: (315)
October 30, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Armagedon would be the cry, proof that Scottish Football needs a strong TRFC.
In reality, there is every chance that at least one of the semis will attract less than 20,000, which will look terrible at Ibrox. This is one of the reasons they’ve previously waited until the semi finalists are known before making the announcement. Does anyone know if the SFA have given reasons for the choice and why they felt it necessary to announce it now? If the answer is anything other than ‘we always favour the Ibrox club’ we will know they are lying. The thing is, is any other club going to complain, or dare they complain? Something else that should be considered; I’m pretty certain the match-day income will be split between the two clubs AFTER all expenses are met, this will inevitably be greater at Ibrox than, say, Easter Road. The effect might not be so great should Celtic, or even TRFC, reach the other semi, with the income split four ways. But if neither of those teams make it, and there’s two crowds, both well below capacity, then all four clubs will suffer. There are a lot of questions the MSM should be asking, but I guarantee, none will be!
Here’s another question for them: what is the break-even crowd for a semi-final at Ibrox, as opposed to, say, Easter Road?
yakutsuki says: (114)
October 30, 2013 at 4:17 pm
100% correct, yakutsuki. I’m sure a psychologist would have a name for the condition.
error
And in other news…:
Local press stand up to Football club chairmans bully boy tactics. Refuse to be accept censorship:
Q.What is the opposite of succulent lamb?
From Englandshire, obv.
It couldn’t happen here, of course.
http://nufcdaily.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/show-your-support-bring-your-chronicle/
(A: = Journalism, of course!)
See below
Its amazing how a change in the weather leads you down a path you didnt expect.
Yesterday it rained in Barcelona, so my plans for a run along the beachfront, 9 holes of golf and a lunch overlooking the Med were put on hold. Until today and it all worked well.
Yesterday however meant an unexpectedly long stay on blogs and twitter. The starting point , as i posted on here yesterday, was a comment made by STV newsreader John McKay, that Paul McStay definitely never made it as player. This started a Tsunami of comment and counter comment, none of which need repeated on here. It’s all on my twitter timeline if anyone has nothing better to do.
To be fair to John McKay he clarified his comments and made it clear that Paul McStay was indeed a fine player and definitely made it. No problem there. The original question was posed by another STV journalist, Peter Adam Smith, although he asked the question in a personal capacity and not for STV. Now , and he will probably be raising his eyebrows in surprise if he reads this, i think Smith is a pretty decent journalist. His original question , about players who never made it , was a good one. One criticism i have though , is that like a few journalists, he is pretty thin skinned when faced with a critical counterpoint.
Which leads me to my next point. The debate was joined by many Rangers supporters, who got quite vexed. Some dealt with it pretty well, Tagsbo and Ross McAdam to name two , and made their criticisms in a reasonable manner. Others were just idiotic and as expected Chris Graham was juvenile and irrelevant. The interesting thing about twitter is that following a comments thread sometimes leads you to an unexpected place.
In this case it was Alastair Forsyth, the excellent Scottish golfer and well known Rangers fan. He was involved in a spat with Tom English , who along with Graeme Spiers has been the focus of much vitriol for questioning Dave King’s credentials. I don’t know Alastair, however a friend of mine who has been prominently involved in golf in a professional capacity tells me he is a wonderful guy. Thats good enough for me. Alastair asked a question on his twitter of a Celtic fan who was giving him some abuse. “Why do you care anyway”
I thought thats a great question. It needs an answer. Why do we, Celtic supporters and supporters of lots, maybe all , other clubs care what is happening to Rangers. Let me try and answer. This is just my opinion, however i know it is shared by many.
Why we care is summed up in 2 words. David Murray.
His arrogance stuck in the throat of Celtic supporters. He may have had the use of private jets, he may have owned a vineyard ( maybe with the obligatory HBOS mortgage) , he may have been 007’s pal, but he had and has no class. He couldn’t win graciously, he couldn’t win without deceiving the authorities, as confirmed by Nimmo Smith. He couldn’t win without an illegal tax evasion scheme ( the discounted option one, and if the UTT find in favour of HMRC then also the EBT scheme) . He also spun fantasies , lies and deception through a small group of compliant non questioning journalists. He attacked Celtic using the same lies and spin, and was desperate to see Celtic killed off , when the Kelly and Whyte dynasty had taken Celtic to the edge through financial incompetence .
I’m sure more than a few Rangers supporters enjoyed every minute. Rangers had a much better team in the 90’s and almost everyone lapped up Murray’s ego driven hubristic claptrap. However, and here’s the key, however much he tried to harm Celtic, he was much much worse for Rangers. None of Rangers horrible experiences in recent years would have happened without Murray priming the ammunition and setting light to the touch-paper. Everyone after Murray has been only a bit part player.
Celtic & other clubs supporters have taken a measure of revenge in Rangers difficulties. We see it as payback for the gloating and jibes we had to endure . However, and this wont be hugely popular here, I don’t believe the Rangers supporters could have changed the outcome. Murray wasn’t prepared or able to listen to his own board. He wouldn’t have acted differently no matter how many supporters spoke out against him. He would have fired up his pet journalists, spoken of nobody complaining during 9 in a row , and carried on regardless.
There is in all of this a common ground, or there should be. David Murray should be banned Sine Die from involvement in Scottish Football. Rangers fans , more than anybody should feel aggrieved at what this man has done to their club. There is enough proof on the table now to take this action, and should the UTT find against Murray the case for action by the SFA is overwhelming.
I believe many fans will start to put the recent events behind us if Murray is held to account. Equally as long as he isn’t then a sense of grievance will linger.
I don’t get involved in the new club/ same club debate. It leaves me cold. I understand the technical arguments , however the next time Celtic lose to Rangers it will hurt as much as it ever did, and the next time Celtic beat Rangers it will feel as good as always. Just my take on it.
2 pay days TV money the lot..plus a guaranteed home fixture for the semi if they get there ..what a deal !
What a free pass!
The SFA and CO could not give a Tinkers Cuss what the rest of Scottish football thinks…
Guys on here are right ..other grounds when we know the teams ..What about Tynecastle?..best atmosphere in Scotland..how about helping them in their hour of need?
I said it before a few weeks ago …These guys are bombproof ..They must have air cover from on high despite overpowering evidence of serious wrongdoing on their part
Breathtaking!
Blindsummit63 12.17pm
blusays 1.18pm
taxlawplebeian 3.46pm
Have just finished reading through recent posts.
Thanks for your help.
CF III appears to have been suspended.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
CF III tweeted late last night/early this morning and put up links to 3 emails I believe. Anything interesting?
I couldn’t access them due to works firewalls.
Barcabhoy
On David Murray. It is probably true that the fan in the street was powerless and blaming them is counter productive in terms of moving on.
However someone or some persons are responsible for what took place at Rangers from 3 Sept 1999 onwards when CO signed Rangers up to the first tax evasion arrangement ( no question that it was evasion. A FTT, UTT and CoS have all said it was) but those responsible have escaped both investigation into their behaviour and censure for it.
We know that in Sept 1999 Rangers, as A MATTER OF POLICY on employee remuneration embarked on a course of avoiding/evading tax. We know who were party to that policy and did not question it but went along with it.
We know that in 2005 HMRC asked questions of Rangers about that initial tax scheme that produced untruthful answers and which personnel were working there at the time who are still in key influencing positions at the SFA now.
We know that when David Murray, in response to Hugh Adam’s claim that ebts pre dated 2000, only told a partial truth when he said that all official enquiries had been answered. They may have been, but not truthfully.
We know. And the truth, no matter how painful for the same Ranger’s supporters to accept, will out.
Then and only then can Scottish football and hopefully even Scottish society start the really important business of reconciliation.
Barcabhoy
You and me both regards Mr Murky .He is the guy I want to see answering some difficult questions (preferably under oath in a court of law .
A poster pointed out a day or two ago that the MSM are now referring to the training ground as Auchenhowie all of a sudden .
Maybe hope yet
Pot and Kettles