Dear Mr Bankier

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Readers may be aware that the group Fans Without Scarves have written to Celtic urging them to seek a review of Scottish football (See here)
On the back of that laudible effort, I have been persuaded to publish a letter I sent to that same board over a week ago (on 8 November)
At the time of publication, I have received no acknowledgment.  Some organisations are like that, of course. (I put it down to the inferior quality of the social upbringing of their boards rather than concern for their postage bill)

The following is the text of that communication;

Mr I Bankier,
Chairman,
Celtic Football Club plc
Celtic Park, Glasgow G40 3RE

08/11/2018

Dear Mr Bankier,

“Resolution 12”

You will, of course, recall as clearly as I that, at the Celtic plc AGM in 2013, the Resolution bearing number 12 on the agenda was not formally debated and voted upon, but was adjourned indefinitely.

I understand that over the intervening years (!) a number of conversations and discussions have taken place between the Board and the immediate proposers of Resolution 12 (among whom, I should perhaps say, I was not numbered in 2013 and am not now numbered).

As an eventual outcome of those discussions and conversations, as again you will recall, Celtic plc in September 2017, shortly before that year’s AGM, entrusted to the Scottish Football Association [SFA] the task of undertaking a thorough investigation into the circumstances under which the Union of European Football Associations [UEFA] granted a UEFA-competitions licence to the then Rangers Football Club in 2011.

Unfathomably, it was not until May of this year that the Compliance Officer of the SFA referred the matter to the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal [JPDT]

In that same month of May 2018, evidence emerged that appeared to cast serious doubts on the legitimacy of the award of the UEFA licence to Rangers Football Club in 2011.

In late June 2018, and following careful consideration of that evidence, the legal representative of what is known as the ‘Res.12 Group’ informed both the SFA and Celtic plc of these doubts, passing to those bodies copies of the evidence which gave rise to those doubts.

In July 2018, The Rangers Football Club Ltd challenged the reference to the JPDT, arguing that the appropriate authority to which any such reference ought to have been made is the Court of Arbitration for Sport [CAS]

This challenge has apparently and inexplicably frozen all action by the JPDT.

To my eye, as a small shareholder, it appears that the Board of Celtic plc have been and continue to be at the very least dilatory and lukewarm if not yet totally remiss in looking after the interests of their shareholders.

It is now November: the reference by Celtic plc to the SFA was made over one year ago. Even by reference to the civil Courts let alone to the internal disciplinary body of a not very large sports governance body such as the SFA, that is an unconscionably long time for a reference not to have been acted upon. I now feel obliged to ask the following questions:

  1. Have the Celtic Board pressed the SFA to say what action they have taken vis-vis the challengemade to the legal powers of the JPDT to investigate the circumstances surrounding the award of the licence ?
  2. If they have not done so, would they care to give their reasons why not?
  3. If the response from the SFA was that the matter of the jurisdiction of the JPDT has been referred elsewhere (to UEFA or to the CAS), are the Celtic Board content with that response and prepared to take such subsequent monitoring action as may be necessary?
  4. If the SFA have not referred the question of jurisdiction elsewhere, have the Celtic Board ascertained at what stage the JPDT’s investigation is at, or even whether it has yet begun?
  5. If the Board have been told that the JPDT has stalled, perhaps indefinitely, what does the Celtic Board propose doing to ensure that the investigation that they were assured would be undertaken will indeed be undertaken by the JPDT as a matter of priority, with a timetable for completion?
  6. Does the Celtic Board actually trust the SFA/JPDT to investigate thoroughly, honestly and deliver true judgement? Is it not time that a vote was taken to pass ‘Res 12’, based on what is now known by Celtic plc, and the matter formally referred by Celtic plc to UEFA to investigate as thoroughly as was done in the recently reported cases of the Albanian, Serbian and Kazakhstan national associations?

The Celtic Board must keep in mind their obligations to shareholders. This would be especially so where there may be grounds for suspecting chicanery on the part of others, in consequence of which Celtic plc might have been denied an actual, defined sum of money and the opportunity potentially to compete for much more in ‘prize’ money.

In such circumstances it would not be at all for the Board on its own authority simply to ignore the possibility of chicanery and dismiss the matter.

There are sufficient grounds for me to believe that the award of a UEFA licence to the then Rangers Football Club in 2011 may have been made in the knowledge that that club was absolutely not entitled to that award.

In my opinion, the granting of a UEFA licence to the then Rangers FC in 2011 is not merely a ‘sporting’ matter, but one which might conceivably, in the absence of acceptable responses from the SFA/JPDT, require reference to the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.

The failure to date of Celtic plc to insist that the SFA take urgent action to fulfil the commitment they made that a thorough, independent investigation would be undertaken urges me to make such reference on my own initiative as a citizen who suspects that a crime may have been committed.

However, before taking such a step, I think I will await your replies to the questions above if you would be good enough to provide such.

Yours sincerely,

name and address

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About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

630 thoughts on “Dear Mr Bankier”


  1. Instead of contacting the police in London why dont the res12 people try greater Manchester police. 

    No love lost there after the UEFA cup invasion


  2. normanbatesmumfc 22nd November 2018 at 11:01

    Sounds incredible I know, but NOTHING would surprise me regarding the levels of corruption in the Scottish game. What if certain individuals are secretly "supporting" The Rangers, with the agreement of the SFA, (Secretly Furtive Affiliation), with provisos of certain outcomes in future competitions as a reward for their support.

    All in the best interests of the game and all that…….  

    ——————————————————————————-

    Now that's a conspiracy theory!! But I like it angry.


  3. Bill1903 22nd November 2018 at 13:29

     

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    Instead of contacting the police in London why dont the res12 people try greater Manchester police. 

    No love lost there after the UEFA cup invasion

    ******

    As I understand it, the City of London Police is the Fraud Squad. Not to be confused with the Metropolitan Police,

    I believe it was they who inadvertently discovered the tax scam at Ibrox, whilst investigating the transfer machinations of Monsieur Boomsong, with the help of seized Ibrox computers.

    Police Scotland don't have the same level of community trust or impartiality.

    Think Edinburgh Juries!! : > )

     

     


  4. Confirmation of next Thursday (and probably Friday), for the “proof before answer” hearing in the TOP v King case, with Lady Wolffe in the chair.

    LADY WOLFFE – E Hunter, Clerk

    Thursday 29th November

    Proof Before Answer

    P341/17 Pet: The Panel on Takeovers and Mergers for orders sec 955 – Dentons UK – Lindsays

    King should be in the country given that he is due to chair the RIFC AGM on Tuesday (unless he does it by Skype).


  7. ThomTheThim 22nd November 2018 at 15:56 Edit

    '…it was they who inadvertently discovered the tax scam at Ibrox, whilst investigating the transfer machinations of Monsieur Boomsong, with the help of seized Ibrox computers.'

    _____________________________

    I had almost completely forgotten about that, and had to refresh the memory :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-468934/London-police-arrive-Ibrox-corruption-probe-gathers-pace.html
     

    "…..He said there were "inconsistencies in evidence" provided by the former Newcastle boss Graeme Souness over the transfer of Boumsong for £8m in January 2005. "


  9. Not too surprised about outcome, but a wee but disappointed at how easy Res.12 seems to have been stymied yet again.

    IMO, the only way the fans will feel any sense of 'justice' – or karma – is if RIFC/TRFC hits the buffers.

    But, based on what we have observed in the last 6+ years, it would seem likely that the next Ibrox related fix has already been drafted.

    And the vast majority of the other 41 clubs will roll over – again.

    Except CFC.

    They will refuse any fix, take the moral high ground…and be outvoted. As expected / planned.

    And it will then be back to business again mibbees with a TRFC2.

    Whatever happens in the future in Scottish football it seems that honesty, transparency and real fan engagement will STILL be missing at Hampden and at most of the clubs.

    Yes, disappointing after all the voluntary effort by the Res.12 folks over the years – and an effort genuinely made for the good of Scottish football.


  10. John Clark 22nd November 2018 at 19:09
    4 0 Rate This

    ThomTheThim 22nd November 2018 at 15:56 Edit

    ‘…it was they who inadvertently discovered the tax scam at Ibrox, whilst investigating the transfer machinations of Monsieur Boomsong, with the help of seized Ibrox computers.’

    I had almost completely forgotten about that, and had to refresh the memory :
    ……………………
    A trip down memory lane.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1008809226750320640?p=v
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1008809074207674368?p=v


  12. To you td's …. I thought him and ferguson were barred for life playing for Scotland.


  13. Portbhoy 22nd November 2018 at 22:17

    '…How in hells name is this man? allowed to play for Scotland?'

    ________________________

    Ha,ha, Portbhoy: there was a nice wee surprise for denier David Currie ,of the BBC, when he was hosting the 'Sportsound' prog from Paisley last night. 

    He called for someone in the audience to ask his ,pre-notified, question, and was set back on his heels when the questioner asked a different question, namely, the one you ask ( albeit phrased differently!)

    Currie had no option but to put the question to the panel: and the woman footballer, and Thomson, rallied round the party flag and supported the rescission of the life-time ban .

    And Currie moved on swiftly, with no opening-up of discussion to the audience.

    Perhaps on future such question sessions the Beeb will use the 10-second delay thingy so that unscripted questions can be blocked by a 'technical hitch'  during which the questioner can be oxtered out by the BBC heavies (or the local venue's heavies!)


  14.    Portbhoy 22nd November

     

    To you td's …. I thought him and ferguson were barred for life playing for Scotland.

    …………………

    You must be kiddin, portbhoy?!

    Don'cha know both guys were totally exonerated when Sandy Bryson pointed out that their fingers may well have been in a V, but they were "imperfectly flexed".


  15. fishnish 23rd November 2018 at 10:52

    '..their fingers may well have been in a V, but they were "imperfectly flexed".'

    __________________

    And, of course, fishnish, even had they been  'perfectly flexed' that could not have been discovered until it was discovered, and there is no mechanism by which an offence that is not discovered until after it actually has happened can be retrospectively recognised and dealt with!

    (The Sandy boy made a right a.se of himself on that occasion. I hope he got/gets his just reward for spouting pis. and helping to destroy any belief that Scottish Football is honest.)


  16. Personally I don’t have any problems with McGregor playing for Scotland. He certainly made a fool of himself back in the day but a lifetime ban for that? Bit harsh.

    He’s went on to play a further 37 times since that ‘ban’ and obviously other Scotland managers have been more than happy to pick him. He’s been selected by Levein, Strachan and possibly caretaker managers Stark and Mackey.

    I could have missed it but I don’t recall much grumbling during SFMs existence when this was happening. I know he signed for Rangers in the summer and now there are quite a lot of posters unhappy with his selection. Could there be some sort of connection there? I wouldn’t know about.

    I was delighted he played the other night and his save near the end of the game was a bit special. I’m looking forward to the playoffs and on Tuesday night he certainly put his hands to better use than he did on the bench at Hampden 9 years ago.


  17. paddy malarkey 22nd November 2018 at 19:43

     

    This happened in Glasgow today .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46311379

    "Other proposals include abolishing the "ABBA" format for shootouts"

    ————————————————————————————

    Didn't they just recently introduce this, replacing the old ABAB format.

     

     

     


  18. incredibleadamspark 23rd November 2018 at 12:13

    '…Could there be some sort of connection there? .

    The obvious connection is that the lifting of a 'life' ban on a player,and the empoyment as national team manager of a man who left that job and took another job without even letting the SF know he was looking for one ,demonstrate the singularly inconsistent, unbalanced, swayed by prejudice and irrationality,approach to the governance of Scottish Football by the SFA.

    It has been abundantly clear since the death of RFC 1872 that Scottish Football is as much damaged by utter incompetence as by dishonesty.


  19. John Clark 13.30

    Wrong John,.100% wrong  

    As Incredibleadamspark subtlety hints at that whilst plying his trade down south there was little if any comment on here but by returning to Rangers he is now fair game for some.  


  20. John, if the lifting of the ban on McGregor (9 years ago) and the reappointment of McLeish (something I was dead against due to his very poor managerial record of the last few years) help contribute to qualifying for our first tournament since 1998, how would you then look on those decisions? They have certainly looked good so far. So far….

    There is a long way to go yet but I’m pretty excited about our prospects. Decades of supporting Scotland should have cured me of such thoughts but I can help it. I only see positives with the Scotland team at the moment. Others see things differently. Fair enough.


  21. incredibleadamspark 23rd November 2018 at 14:31

    '..if the lifting of the ban on McGregor (9 years ago) and the reappointment of McLeish (something I was dead against due to his very poor managerial record of the last few years) help contribute to qualifying for our first tournament since 1998, ..'

    _______________________

    You may as well ask: if secretly using a dodgy tax scheme which allows a club to pay rates of remuneration to its players,(while lying to the SFA and the SPL about the amounts that were being paid) helps a club to secure the services of better quality players than it could otherwise afford, why should anybody bother?

    There can be no sport without agreed rules, and a genuine readiness to bide by those rules. There can be no discipline and trust if rules can be flouted without penalty, or where penalties properly imposed are rescinded for the sake of 'winning'. 

    An attitude of mind that says rules don't matter if you can get away with breaking them, or 'winning' deceitfully is desirable, or letting offenders off the hook is ok , or re-employing a manager who not only failed as a manager but failed in commitment and in common decency, is to be scorned.

    That kind of mentality caused the death of RFC 1872.

    To the extent that people in the SFA share that mentality,football loving people, sports minded, want them out before they kill the entire sport.


  24. John Clark 23 November 2018 @ 15:00
    —————————————————————————————

    John, I may as well ask no such thing. I think you are possibly attributing opinions and attitudes to me which I have not given in very recent posts or, for that matter, in any of my postings on SFM.

    A ban was overturned allowing a player to return to the national team and a manager was reappointed who had previously left for job elsewhere. As unsatisfactory as you clearly find this I personally have no problems with such events.

    And that this overturned ban wasn’t an issue on here when the player represented Hull and Cardiff but now seems to be a hot topic. What might one conclude from that?

    I hope my attitude of mind is a fair one, I certainly aim for that, and it’s not one I’d like to see misrepresented and be scorned.


  28. incredibleadamspark 

    23rd November 2018 at 16:26

    ====================================

    I didn't realise Ferguson and McGregor's life bans had been overturned.

    When did this happen, probably more importantly, who overturned it.


  30. As somebody has already mentioned, why is the Allan McGreggor overturned ban suddenly of interest now? He was reinstated almost ten years ago in 2010 and has played under every manager since Burly. He was the first choice for Euro 2012 qualifiers and regular pick ever since. SFM as I understand it has been set up for 3 years, so why is it only of interest now he is back playing for Rangers?


  31. Homunculus 23rd November @ 17:22
    ——————————————————————————

    Really? I’ll reluctantly head down this potentially semantic cul-de-sac. To the best of my knowledge Ferguson was never selected for Scotland again. Perhaps his ban remained in place, I have no idea, and never mentioned him previously so I’m not sure why you’ve brought him up in response to one of my posts.

    McGregor was selected in Craig Levein’s second match in charge, an away 0-3 defeat to Sweden. So I’m assuming (and I know what they say about that) he became available for selection again some time around then, when he started that match.

    As to who overturned the ban I’ll assume (again) that the decision was reached by a combination of the manager at the time and SFA high heid yins. I hope that was of some help.


  33. Jingso.Jimsie 23rd November 2018 at 16:08
    2 0 Rate This

    In case you missed the anniversary; it was thirty years ago today:

    https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/30-years-on-when-david-murray-and-graeme-souness-combined-to-buy-rangers-1-4833905
    …………….
    This was 6 years ago today.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1054062639574331393?p=v
    ……………..
    I often wonder if he ever got that apology, or after the Supreme court ruling he ever offered an apology from himself.


  34. EJ, I often think the SFA aren’t actually corrupt but are just completely inept. I’m not convinced anyone there has the intelligence for a cover up! 

    UEFA are a different animal, it has always been known that them and FIFA are two of the most corrupt bodies in the world of any walk of life. The UEFA draws that always keep the teams they want apart until later stages in tournaments, and the recent revelations over Man City and Monaco are examples of the corruption conspiracies. However they blatantly rig the game (UEFA and FIFA) without even trying to hide it by ensuring the rich and powerful stay rich and powerful, the choice of venues or host countries are the best financially for them regardless of the fans or players (Qatar!) and the cream of the crop like PSG Barca and Real Madrid will always get the benefit of the doubt with regards to disciplinary processes. They truly are a corrupt bunch. Which is what I find ironic at the fact the Resolution 12 bunch hold their great hopes of perceived justice in those very bodies?


  35. Hey Traverso, it’s Regan here.  Looking for a favour pal. We’re getting some stick from a fan group over our dealing with FFP re the Rangers situation, you might remember we discussed it at the time. . pause Hahaha I know I know you are having bigger problems over the same regulation! Bet your regretting that decision to introduce it now? Anyway, your no doubt getting letters from this same fan group and as you know, it’s not going away. Any chance you can send a letter stating you can’t get involved? Stick some excuse about new company structures. Something vague that can be interpreted as either new club OR company by adding a “” – we don’t want to have the Rangers fans on our backs now too haha. I assume that will probably keep both sets appeased for a while. Cheers pal. Yes of course you can count on our votes for any plans you have, goes without saying. Good luck with your problems, anything we can do to assist let us know, goes without saying you scratch our back we’ll scratch yours…


  37. incredibleadamspark 23rd November 2018 at 18:16

     

    I hope that was of some help.

    ===================================

    It was.

    What you are actually saying is the ban was never lifted.

    Someone simply picked him, and the SFA who had imposed the ban did nothing about it.

    So the SFA either never noticed, which is highly unlikely. Or they ignored the fact that their own employee (the manager) had selected a player they themselves had banned … for life. 

    If they had at least come out and said something like "We have now decided the punishment was too harsh and the player can now be selected again" that at least would have been a legitimate route to take. Even if anyone disagrees with it.

    Its just another example of their lack of integrity. Pretty much like people saying "I don't care if he was banned for life, we are winning games so that doesn't really matter".

     

    Re Ferguson, if McGregor’s ban was “lifted” then presumably Ferguson’s was as well as it was for the same offence.


  39. Homunculus, not what I was saying, but you know that. Happy I was able to help out and delighted to see I wasn’t disappointed with the predictably semantic stroll we’ve just taken. 


  40. However, Gordon Smith, the SFA chief executive, declined to confirm that the ban is irrevocable.
    The subtext appears to be that while George Burley is Scotland manager, the two have no chance of being selected, but that under a future regime the door may be open for a comeback.
    “The board also considered what needs to be done to ensure that this never happens again. The board recognised that by taking such a tough stance on this matter, a crystal clear message has been sent out to current and future players that inappropriate behaviour will not be tolerated.

    “However, further tightening of procedures will now take place. A code of conduct will be issued to all players who are chosen to represent their country – regardless of level. This will be drawn up in the coming weeks in consultation with the coaching staff.
    ………
    Same old SFA tightening the rules after the fact.


  41. Darkbeforedawn 23rd November 2018 at 19:54

    Wishful thinking ? God loves a trier .


  42. On this McGregor ban thing. Can I just say that he is probably the most in form keeper Alex could have selected and so that is fine by me.

    Yes he was a knobhead a few years back with all that V sign stuff and excessive drinking which showed no respect to his team mates or the manager.

    Whilst on the subject of McGregor can I just remark on his courage. As a keeper you need lots of it to go into one on ones, block point blankers with a spread exposed body and come out for the ball in a crowded box.  What is not nice to see and is a lack of courage is a keeper having a fly kick or punch or sneaky kick at an opposing player.


  43. Without getting tribal I think it's a matter of record that James Forrest scored three goals and Allan McGregor let in two.

    So Celtic 3 – Rangers -2.

    Five goal difference.

    Who Are The People?


  45. I can only assume all the TD are because folk actually agree with the above. I hope no one on this site really believes that FIFA or UEFA are model companies of integrity with no scandals and who value the average fans indecision


  46. Darkbeforedawn,   How are you mate?   Don't always agree with you but you are a good poster.


  47. Darkbeforedawn 

    It's because you're spouting  revisionist pish . Fans of the wee teams know our place but we also know that we have been in a corrupt game for longer than the death of RFC .


  48. Forget about the Mc.Gregor squirrel.

    The next campaign from Ibrox is to try an establish an OF connection between Celtic and a new club.

    It's been a few years now since the Champions stopped referring to the obsolete term, so, why has it become such an important issue now?

    Maybe it's part of the SKY deal, which also must contain reference to Steven Gerrard's Rangers.

    Has it any connection with the re-establishing of ownership rights?

    Or just another attempt by Sevco to hang on to Celtic's coat tails in the game, in their vain attempt to perpetuate the Big Lie.

    Whatever is the reason, there must be something brewing south of the Clyde as SFM's resident squirrel trainers have been out in force tonight.


  49. I'm thinking about those fellow Bampots who decided years ago to cancel their ST's, Sky etc and step back from funding a corrupt national game.

    IMO, we are close to – if not at – the point where there is no hope.  We support and pay into a corrupt set up, ignorantly administered from Hampden.

    Personally, I am now thinking of totally walking away.

    I don't want to walk away.

    Since 2012, I have not seen any ANY encouraging signs that either the game is being cleaned up, or that fans are being listened to.

    Discussing with wife, but we may have unwittingly, recently spent our last money on Scottish football.

    As time goes by, it's looking like an easy decision…


  50. Darkbeforedawn 23rd November 2018 at 22:07

     

    I can only assume all the TD are because folk actually agree with the above. I hope no one on this site really believes that FIFA or UEFA are model companies of integrity with no scandals and who value the average fans

    ==================================

    I agree with you about FIFA and UEFA, however there has at least been some public attempts to clean up  the acts of both associations with many people left disgraced.  The SFA meanwhile continue to act under the protection of some ancient secret code where it is actually impossible for corruption to take place simply because it's Scotland. That is just plain nonsense, because the human trait of bias or a willingness to be corrupt does not stop at the border of ANY country.  I disagree with your earlier assertion that the SFA are merely incompetent rather than corrupt. I have witnessed many things over my 56 years from the SFA which smack of corruption, but since 2012 it has taken on a whole new level. 

    Even the very simple ones stick in my mind. In May 1976 Celtic captain Kenny Dalglish was one game away from equalling ex Rangers captain George Young’s long held record of consecutive games for Scotland.  The game was a low key home international game v Wales at Hampden and unaccountably Dalglish was not even on the bench, and he wasn't injured. He was recalled against England the following game and scored the winner.  Clearly some people within the SFA could not stand the thought of a Celtic player going on to hold the record held by a Rangers legend. 

     


  51. ThomTheThim 

    24th November 2018 at 01:18

    =====================================

    The PLC AGM is on Tuesday.

    I am sure they will try to play it as "Look we brought in the new manager, everything is great"

    However there is just the slight possibility that someone may want to discuss the ongoing disastrous financial results, and the predicted further ongoing losses.

    They might even want to do a wee bit of digging about how much actual money was raised at the recent share issue and if in fact the only new cash coming in might have come from the support themselves, as opposed to paying of loans or other methods.

    This is the shadow of Celtic's recent AGM, on the back of record turnover and profit figures. To say nothing of a double treble and seven league titles in a row. 


  52. upthehoops 24th November 2018 at 07:32
     In May 1976 Celtic captain Kenny Dalglish was one game away from equalling ex Rangers captain George Young’s long held record of consecutive games for Scotland.  The game was a low key home international game v Wales at Hampden and unaccountably Dalglish was not even on the bench, and he wasn't injured. He was recalled against England the following game and scored the winner.  Clearly some people within the SFA could not stand the thought of a Celtic player going on to hold the record held by a Rangers legend

    If I recall correctly the manager who was in charge then was Willie Ormond. What a poor legacy to leave behind, these corrupters of the game might think they're smart and well thought of at the time by their fellows but in the long term they have sullied their reputation and (to quote Sheakspeare) their evil lives after them. I and many others will remember Ormond as the man who denied Dalglish (or Sir Kenny as he is now) his record through sheer bigotry. It says a a lot for Dalglish that he played for Scotland afterwards and didn't tell Ormond where to stick his caps.


  53. Homunculus 24th November 2018 at 09:31
    The PLC AGM is on Tuesday.

    I am sure they will try to play it as “Look we brought in the new manager, everything is great”
    …………..
    “We gave you orange strips”…..Oh wait, scrub that one.
    “we chased Ashley”…Oh Darn.
    Err….”The manager will get a warchest in january”….Feck they have seen the accounts.
    When all else fails, play the victim card, shout no surrender and WATP and just say wait until celtic’s house of cards fall. Throw in a couple of our long history and most successful sound bite’s and everyone goes home happy.


  54. Ballyargus 24th November 2018 at 09:52

    ===============================

    I have read a few books by former players who don't blame Willie Ormond at all for what happened to Dalglish in that instance. The national team managers job was not all powerful in those days, and influential people within the SFA called the shots. I read that when Jock Stein took over the manager's office was a small one on an upper level of the building. Jock quickly informed them he would be moving to a fancy office at the front of the building occupied by an SFA power bearer! Apparently Stein's commanding overall presence while in charge was the main reason they went for compliant appointments in his aftermath. 


  55. Cluster One 24th November 2018 at 10:30

    ==============================

    What you will see is a difference in how the media report the two AGM's. Rangers AGM comes with guaranteed sugar coated coverage. As I said earlier I would not allow a single member of the media anywhere near the Celtic AGM. 


  57. Hey Jimbo, I’m good thank you! How are you? I’ve had so much on recently I’ve not really had much chance to comment on here although I have been reading up from time to time. 


  58. With regards my comments re the governing bodies of the game, I completely agree the SFA are a shambles. I just don’t believe they could be capable of a large scale conspiracy. No doubt everything they do is for cash, and therefore the big two will get everything their own way at the expense of the rest and im some instances sporting integrity. Also as a result of money, tv deals etc are for the benefits of the accountants and not the fans. Don’t get me wrong I despise the SFA but my real contempt lies with FIFA and UEFA. The former in particular who will overlook human atrocities to line their own pockets by allowing a backwards thinking country to host the worlds biggest tournament 


  59. incredibleadamspark 23rd November 2018 at 16:26

    '..A ban was overturned allowing a player to return to the national team and a manager was reappointed who had previously left for job elsewhere. ..'

    __________________________

    Incompetence on the part of a Sports body that  allows it in one breath  publicly to impose on a sportsperson a 'life-time' ban,  and in the next,  allows it suddenly to rescind that ban without public announcement or explanation, is a very clear sign of the unfitness of the personnel working for that sports body.

    Naturally, someone  who (as far as I can make out) claims that TRFC Ltd is the Glasgow Rangers Football Club founded in 1872, is hardly likely to be bothered with that level of incompetence in the matter of player discipline.

    Likewise a national sports body which is ready to re-appoint a failure of a manager who walked away from that  appointment to feather his own nest in another job without as much as a prior word to them  would present you with no problem

    even at a time and in a context where injured players were being pilloried for not being willing to risk further injury by turning out for the national team. 

    The SFA has shown itself to be utterly untrustworthy because of its failure to deal properly either with the dead Rangers or with the new club , for the basest of reasons.

    And are deserving of every piece of contumely for their abandonment of principle and their wretched weakness.

     


  60. Cluster One 24th November 2018 at 11:48

    ==================================

    It doesn't work without a compliant media. Remember when David Murray knew the game was up he got all his pals to tells about the new £700m Ibrox he had planned, with retractable roof and hover pitch, and of course the legendary casino! It was nonsense of course, but it didn't stop the media discussing when the work would actually start. 


  61. Darkbeforedawn 24th November 2018 at 13:34

    With regards my comments re the governing bodies of the game, I completely agree the SFA are a shambles. I just don’t believe they could be capable of a large scale conspiracy.
    ===============================================================
    You may be right DBD. That may be why so many plod investigations required bungling.
    What happened happened. Rangers(I.L.) systematically cheated their way to honours for a period spanning over more than a decade. No rational mind who has read the evidence is in any doubt.
    There were no “conspiracy” allegations expected. What happened was merely to be accepted………It wisnae !
    Nobody likes a cheat, and Scots don’t take too kindly to being cheated….Who does?…Not HMRC, Not TOP, Not the Stock market, Not the UK courts, Not Ashley….And not Scottish fitba’ fans.


  62. Wee Mr Morelos worked his booking well today, imo , picking the game he'll be suspended from .


  63. upthehoops 24th November 2018 at 18:36
    It was nonsense of course, but it didn’t stop the media discussing when the work would actually start.
    ………………
    It never did start. the same will be heard at this years AGM. Soundbites with no media or shareholders asking questions only it is ok king has a plan.
    Don’t get me wrong king’s plans have led them down the wrong path, and may it continue


  64. Wee Mr Morelos worked his booking well today, imo , picking the game he'll be suspended from .

    Makes a mockery of the whole system. That and the rediculus appeal system where a player who knows he has no chance of overturning a red can appeal it to play in a key game. 


  65. Homunculus @ 09.31

     

    Id expect the agenda chat to be:

     

    ”given where we’ve been would you consider spending £14m of someone else’s money to get through euro groups, domestically 2nd and within two wins of 1st as money well spent?”

     

    And make no mistake a significant proportion in the room will agree.


  66. Smugas 24th November 2018 at 20:15
    ”given where we’ve been would you consider spending £14m of someone else’s money to get through euro groups, domestically 2nd and within two wins of 1st as money well spent?”

    And make no mistake a significant proportion in the room will agree.
    ……………………….
    Any soundbite that makes them within touching distance of celtic will be applauded, but soundbites do not alter the reality of a situation.


  67. John Clark 24th November 2018 @ 18:34
    ——————————————————————————

    Just so I’m clear on this, are you referring to me in this paragraph?

    “Naturally, someone  who (as far as I can make out) claims that TRFC Ltd is the Glasgow Rangers Football Club founded in 1872, is hardly likely to be bothered with that level of incompetence in the matter of player discipline.”

    Please do respond. A simple yes or no will suffice.


  68. incredibleadamspark 24th November 2018 at 20:38

    '…Just so I’m clear on this, are you referring to me in this paragraph?'
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    "If the cap fits, wear it…." is perhaps an appropriate response. 

    I read your posts as I read them: broadly in support of the 'same club' nonsense; anxious to see the dead 'Rangers' treated as though still alive(absolved of any guilt  for anything); ready to accept that there was no playing of ineligible players; that somehow Craig Whyte's 'Rangers of 1872'  did not cease to exist as a recognised football club in Scottish football; that somehow there is both a RFC 2012 with 140+ years of history which is simultaneously The Rangers Football Club founded in 2012……… and so on. 

    It follows therefore that I view any defence of  what I believe to be unacceptable behaviour by the SFA as being at least implicit support for the SFA ,  for the SMSM Liquidation deniers ,and for the BB C pundits who block any discussion of the 'Lie', in relation to anything related to the dead club and  its former managers and players (particularly EBT recipients) !

    If I am completely misreading your posts, and you are not a denier of the consequences of RFC 1872's Liquidation and of the ineligibility of those players etc etc etc, then I am very glad. 

    But really, you  might make it a little clearer in your posts that you are on the side of right.


  69. John, not only have you misread my posts you might have me completely mixed up with another poster?

    This paragraph:

    “I read your posts as I read them: broadly in support of the ‘same club’ nonsense; anxious to see the dead ‘Rangers’ treated as though still alive(absolved of any guilt  for anything); ready to accept that there was no playing of ineligible players; that somehow Craig Whyte’s ‘Rangers of 1872’  did not cease to exist as a recognised football club in Scottish football; that somehow there is both a RFC 2012 with 140+ years of history which is simultaneously The Rangers Football Club founded in 2012……… and so on.”

    I have posted none of the above. I enjoy this site and I’m genuinely puzzled by your response. I have no problem admitting when I have got something wrong and I would hope you would do the same on this occasion.


  70. incredibleadamspark 24th November 2018 at 22:54

    '…I have no problem admitting when I have got something wrong and I would hope you would do the same on this occasion.'
    %%%%%%%%%%%%
    No one is more ready than I to admit that I can get things wrong, mis-read, misinterpret, get names wrong, mis-click on the mouse, and generally make an arse of myself. 

    But, for my ease of mind afore I go to bed: will you post that you believe that TRFC Ltd is

    not entitled to advertise itself as being the self-same football club as the Rangers of 1872?

    that it falsely claims to be so?

    that it is a new football club founded in 2012?

    and that Rangers FC of 1872 fielded ineligible players (by reason of serious breach of SFA/SPL rules about disclosure of emoluments being paid to players?)

    I will most willingly apologise to you if I have wholly misunderstood your fundamental orientation and,  in consequence, your posts on this blog. 

     

     

     


  71. John, I have been on SFM since the very beginning and have posted on all of those topics a number of times. I also believe I've been pretty consistent in my opinions on those topics. 

    I will repeat my puzzlement at how you could so misrepresent my posts but I'm happy to put your mind at ease on these topics. 

    Rangers are a new club formed in 2012, should not claim the records of the old one, which is currently being liquidated and was at it with their use of EBTs. To put it mildly.

     

     

     


  72. Darkbeforedawn 23rd November 2018 at 19:44

    EJ, I often think the SFA aren’t actually corrupt but are just completely inept. I’m not convinced anyone there has the intelligence for a cover up! 

    UEFA are a different animal, it has always been known that them and FIFA are two of the most corrupt bodies in the world of any walk of life. The UEFA draws that always keep the teams they want apart until later stages in tournaments, and the recent revelations over Man City and Monaco are examples of the corruption conspiracies. However they blatantly rig the game (UEFA and FIFA) without even trying to hide it by ensuring the rich and powerful stay rich and powerful, the choice of venues or host countries are the best financially for them regardless of the fans or players (Qatar!) and the cream of the crop like PSG Barca and Real Madrid will always get the benefit of the doubt with regards to disciplinary processes. They truly are a corrupt bunch. Which is what I find ironic at the fact the Resolution 12 bunch hold their great hopes of perceived justice in those very bodies?

    ==============================

    UEFA involvement was always suspected based on events on 19 Sept 2011. The link is to an e mail that tells us that the SFA and UEFA must have been in discussion in order for UEFA to verbally accept the monitoring  submission made by RFC under Art 66 at 30 June 2011.

    How did the SFA explain the status of “postponed” given to the liability to UEFA in the Art 66 submission, given that any "postponement" we now know was a lie ?

    What explanation did the SFA give UEFA that UEFA were happy to verbally accept the submission of 30th June, with the result that future financial forecasts were not required just four and a half months before RFC entered administration prior to liquidation?

    The tone of the SFA advice to RFC to meet Article 67 requirement is remarkable in that it suggests UEFA would not be picking up the issue.  

    Who influenced UEFA and what factors cane into play?

    Was one that RFC were out of Europe

    Did the SFA know by September that the proof for granting was bullshit?

    What exactly were UEFA told by the SFA who by 30 June should have been supplied with letters from HMRC of 5th May and 20th May demonstrating that the liability was anything but postponed and the submission was in fact more or less a repeat of what the RFC told the SFA to get the licence in the first place? Its all at 

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9cGJVMlBFZTViWUE/view

    This was known when the resolution was being drafted and one of the possibilities, given that the aim of Res12 was SFA reform, was that it was the SFA who lied to UEFA in that conversation.

    That is what an investigation would have established so now you know why every attempt is being made to bury it.

    Another reason for placing  Res12 was to confirm that Rangers lied/cheated in June 2011 and the September submission was a lie also .

    The SFA and TRFC are pulling out all the judicial stops to avoid not just getting confirmation of the above, but that the lie began just before the end of March.

    All Res12 asked was for UEFA CFCB to carry out their role and the expectation, with good reason at the time,  was that Celtic would be right behind it and take it to UEFA, but we can hardly be blamed for thinking Celtic weren't corrupt, but I can assure you the SFA are, as time will tell.

    Go back and read Who is Conning Whom SFM Blog to see how Darryl Broadfoot told David Conn of The Guardian that RFC held an HMRC letter that justified the licence being granted or JPP Perverting Justice or Is Regan a DIDDY?

    Mr Conn to this day, even although he has since been shown in October evidence that set out the true position has declined to investigate.

    I mean we knew corruption  was bad but f f s.

     

     

     


  73. Cluster One 24th November 2018 at 20:02

    It never did start. the same will be heard at this years AGM. Soundbites with no media or shareholders asking questions only it is ok king has a plan.
    Don’t get me wrong king’s plans have led them down the wrong path, and may it continue

    ================

    There will be many intelligent people at the AGM, but I have no doubt that for some reason they will be as willing to accept everything King tells them without challenge as anyone. What I expect is stuff along the lines of:

    1. Rangers are in an enviable position.
    2. Cheap digs at Celtic.
    3. Once we are playing in the Champions League Groups our business model will really take off.
    4. We have had bids for several players worth huge transfer fees but we are not in the business of selling. 
    5. We will continue our pursuit of justice regarding the SPFL Chair and his links to Celtic.
    6. The court cases with Ashley mean nothing and we will make millions from merchandise. 
    7. We are a far bigger contributor to the Scottish economy than Celtic – because we just are. 

    Then the assembled media will write a report which could be narrowed down simply to the classic end line from children's stories '…and they all lived happily ever after'. 


  74. …and to back up my earlier point about the media I see King will 'Jet in' for the AGM and 'discuss signing targets' with Gerrard before the meeting. A club which has just lost £14m, with an admission of more external finance required, and the media can't even ask how these signings will be financed. 

    Oh…there is also the matter of UEFA FFP to consider before applying to the SFA for a European licence. Right, I've taken things too far, because some things are just pure fantasy and I have to realise that!


  75. Steven Gerrard has warned he’s prepared to fall out with his Ibrox paymasters if they consider selling on-fire hitman Alfredo Morelos.
    ………………..
    First for that to happen he would need someone to be interested in buying him first.Is this another slant on the no bid £15 million?
    Oh! upthehoops.
    I see King will ‘Jet in’ for the AGM and ‘discuss signing targets’
    King at said AGM I will not sell, big smiles from SG round of applause from the gallery…sorted.
    There will be many intelligent people at the AGM, but I have no doubt that for some reason they will be as willing to accept everything King tells them without challenge.HAS ANYONE PUT ENQUIRIES IN OR ASKED ABOUT HIS AVAILABILITY, MR KING!
    asked no one from the gallery.

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