Regular posters and contributors to the SFM may remember that in October last year I wrote to Mr McRae, President of the SFA.
I posted the text of my letter on 28th October http://www.sfmonitor.org/whose-assets-are-they-anyway/?cid=20786
I had not received a reply or acknowledgement by 12th December, so I sent a reminder. I received a reply to that reminder, dated 16 December 2015, in which Mr McRae apologised for not having responded to my previous letter, and invited me to come and see him. We arranged that I should visit him at Hampden on 19 January 2016 at 2.00 p.m.
Following the meeting, I wrote a summary of the conversation. I emailed that summary to Mr Darryl Broadfoot, Head of Communications, asking him to check whether my recollections were accurate, because I was my intention to post the summary on SFM.
I have not had a reply and I think I have waited a fair enough time, so, here is the summary of an approximately 45 minute conversation.
I should first make it clear that Mr McRae said that he had no recollection of airing any of the views recorded in my letter as attributed to him. I should also say that I made it clear that while I contribute to SFM, I was not there as ‘officially representing’ SFM, although what I would say broadly reflected the view of many.
“Note of informal meeting between me, and Alan McRae, President of the SFA, with Darryl Broadfoot, Press Officer, at Hampden park, 2.00 pm Tuesday, 19th January.
Background: I had written to Mr McRae in October 2015, to ask whether Mr McRae had really (as had been reported to me) aired the following opinions:
- that Rangers FC were not Liquidated
- that Rangers FC were put down to the third Division
- that Rangers FC were bought by Charles Green and that the team currently playing out of Ibrox Stadium and calling itself The Rangers Football Club Ltd is one and the same as the club known as Rangers Football Club, which is currently in Liquidation.
Mr McRae, through Mr Broadfoot, went through the points one by one.
On point one, there was no difficulty in agreeing that RFC had been Liquidated. That was accepted as a matter of fact.
On point two, I argued that;
- Mr Green’s new club had had to apply for league and SFA membership, and were therefore admitted as a new club to Scottish Football and allowed into SFL Third Division.
- They had as an emergency measure been granted conditional membership, and had had to seek the Administrators’ and Football Authorities’ agreement to the use of certain RFC (IL) players who had decided to sign on with the new club in order to play their first game as a new club.
- They were ‘put in ‘the Third Division as a new club, not as an existing club being relegated.
Mr McRae, through Mr Broadfoot, argued that ‘put in’ and ‘admitted to’ are pretty much the same thing, and that the legal advice obtained was that Mr Green’s new club was not a new club, and the Authorities were stuck with that.
I referred to the 5-way Agreement, and made the point that two entities other than league or SFA representatives were signatories to that agreement: RFC (IL) and Mr Green’s new club. The two could not be one.
Mr Broadfoot said that was a matter of opinion.
I said that it was rather a matter of fact.
Likewise, on the third point, there was disagreement.
Mr Broadfoot, for Mr McRae, argued that Charles Green bought the club (and Mr McRae personally added ‘and the “goodwill”’).
I pointed out that Mr Green had NOT bought the club out of Administration, as had happened with other clubs, but merely had bought the assets of a former club that was NOT able to bought out of administration and was consequently Liquidated.
Mr Broadfoot said that Celtic and Rangers supporters might continue to disagree but that could only be expected.
I pointed out that this was not at all a Celtic-Rangers supporters’ issue, and that the Scottish Football Monitor, for instance, represented the views of supporters of many clubs. I further made the point that many sports administrative bodies had come under the spotlight in current times and people were naturally concerned that the governance of football should be above suspicion: and that substantial numbers feel that the Football Authorities have been at fault, in permitting a new club to claim to be an old club and pretend to the honours and titles etc etc.
Reference was made in the passing to some allegations that had been made that certain evidence relating to the Discounted Option Scheme had been withheld from the LNS commission, which occasioned Lord Nimmo Smith to be misled; and to the apparent negligent performance of the SFA administration under the previous President, who, both on account of his personal knowledge of the use of the DOS by Sir David Murray, and as a subsequent recipient of an EBT, might reasonably have been expected to ensure a thorough and diligent examination of the information provided by clubs about payments to players.
Mr Broadfoot ruled out discussion of the first of these matters because ‘there was no evidence’, and the second matter was also ruled out because, he asserted, the previous president is a man of the highest integrity.
I replied that work was in hand to provide evidence, and that the question of negligent performance of duties was not a question of ‘personal integrity’.
Mr Broadfoot opined that the future would show whether Scottish Football supporters were really concerned about the old club/new club debate, if huge numbers turned their backs on the game.
I replied that a sport based on a false proposition, on what could be seen as a lie, no matter on what pragmatic reasons, would certainly wither if and when people thought the sport could be rigged.
As the meeting drew to a close, I was asked if, coming from Edinburgh, I was a Hibs or Hearts supporter, or perhaps a Celtic supporter? And whether I was going to tonight’s (Celtic were playing that evening at home) game?
I replied that as my name suggests, I was of Irish extraction and perhaps conclusions could be drawn from that. Also that I would not be going to tonight’s game, and that my interest in the present matter was rather more academic and objective than partisan.
The meeting ended cordially at about 2.45.pm “
I think I can say that Mr Broadfoot, opening the meeting, explained that
“for the purposes of this meeting, I am the SFA.”
Mr McRae’s personal contribution to the conversation was therefore very little more than mentioned above, Mr Broadfoot doing most of the talking.
I will say further that I spoke to BP, and consulted one or two other posters before I went to the meeting, in order to make sure that my general understanding both of the principal events of the ‘saga’ and of the thrust of most of SFM’s contributors, who are drawn from supporters of many clubs, was sufficiently sound.
I give it as my opinion that I may have been invited to a personal meeting only because it might have been thought in some quarters that I was in possession of an electronic recording of what I told Mr McRae that he was reported as having said.
And, finally, I declare here that my note of the meeting was written within two hours of the meeting, and reflects the substance of the conversation. It is exactly the note I sent by email to Broadfoot, except that I corrected a typo in the spelling of Darryll (I had ‘Caryll’), have omitted my own surname, and changed references to myself from the third person to the first person.
phils latest
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/angela-haggerty/#more-7283
Re Spiers/Herald, it will be interesting to note, next time The Rangers choir , either at Ibrox or away, treat us to a rendition of BB, how the directors of the club or holding company react . Unanimous outright condemnation ? A plea to the Scottish Government to stop criminalising their(and other ) fans for singing their traditional songs (albeit traditional to the dead club)? Silence ?
I’ve also come to the view that Ally McCoist has played a blinder in this – almost as if he was in cahoots with RRM from the outset . His price for supporting Green drained the spivs’ monetary resources, leaving them vulnerable to attack . Enter Kingco . [Don’t want to mention his playing guys out of position or(lack of) fitness regime – so I won’t].
Then there are the legal stuff that appears to me to be targeted solely on the interlopers . No peers of the realm hurt in this production .
easyJambo 2nd February 2016 at 1:30 pm
===========================
My position, as outlined in my last, is actually very simple.
I believe the assessment was that to not sign that player would have such dire consequences, for both the club and Dave King’s reputation, that they would have spent any cash available, no matter what it was intended for, to get him.
If Mark Warburton told them that he would express his displeasure publicly, or even worse seek alternative employment, they would have to take that very seriously.
I do not think this signing is so much about the immediate liquidity of the club, it is about season ticket sales in the near future. Not that I think failing to get the player would have that much of a direct influence. However failing to get him and the possible repercussions re the Manager (how the support like a messianic figure) could have been a disaster for the relationship between the fans and the board.
easyJambo 2nd February 2016 at 1:30 pm # Allyjambo 2nd February 2016 at 1:00 pm # Bawsman 2nd February 2016 at 12:12 pm # Homunculus 2nd February 2016 at 1:08 pm # ============================ The actual statement in the accounts read as follows:
The forecast cash flows assume conservative amounts generated from player sales.
The cash flows referred to would cover a period of 12 months from the sign off of the accounts, which, for the auditors, was on 29 October 2015. As a result, the “sales” could be achieved in either the window just closed, or in the summer of 2016.
I think the likely improvement in income achieved through gate receipts and cuts in playing and coaching costs will probably negate the need for any significant player sales in the January window. I would expect further surgery to the squad in the summer as the club seeks to cash in on any player whose value has increased while at Ibrox, then spent on wages for further Bosman signings of a higher(?) quality.
________________________________
Thanks for that, EJ, as ever, your ability to analyse the financials and reports helps us greatly. One thing, though, the ‘conservative’ sales might well have taken a lift to ‘significant’ in the summer after the signing of O’Halloran, at a time when most would acknowledge that they will need to upgrade their playing squad to cope with the challenge of the Premiership (assuming promotion).
I’ve been having a wee think (not my strong point) wrt the censorship of Spiers. I believe the SFA position is that they are handcuffed with regards any punishment, if the club can show it has taken reasonable steps of prevention. It could be construed that Spiers is implying they are not, but only applying token measures. Paying lip-service to prevention. It would put another wee twist on things.
It may be that Sevco had to take action on it to strengthen their case with the SFA.
Instead it would appear they have taken no stronger preventative measures, other than the ability to report on it.
Corrupt official
I think you have over-thought this.
Bullying, pure and simple, by The People Who Are (copyright acknowledged).
Corrupt official says
“I’ve been having a wee think (not my strong point) wrt the censorship of Spiers. I believe the SFA position is that they are handcuffed with regards any punishment, if the club can show it has taken reasonable steps of prevention. It could be construed that Spiers is implying they are not, but only applying token measures. Paying lip-service to prevention. It would put another wee twist on things. It may be that Sevco had to take action on it to strengthen their case with the SFA. Instead it would appear they have taken no stronger preventative measures, other than the ability to report on it.”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
It is quite obvious the new club enjoys many aspects of the unique beneficial relationship, enjoyed by the disgraced one. I believe the SFA need to “order” the new board to make a full condemnation of the many disgusting and illegal songs, in order to show without any doubt they are serious about eradicating this shameful behaviour.
Next time TBB gets a full rendition the club should be given a final warning, thereafter the next offence will result in next 3 home games being played behind closed doors. If they really are serious about ending this nonsense, they could do so with ease. We all know for sure it would have been eradicated years ago had any other club been the culprit.
Shame on the Sevco Fans for their behaviour, shame on Sevco for failing to properly condemn the crime and shame on the SFA for doing SFA about it.
Although there has been the expected deafening silence from the Scottish media in the wake of the Spiers sacking, I see that ‘The National’ has now stuck its head above the parapet. Bearing in mind that ‘The National’ is part of the Herald group of newspapers, today’s issue carries a column by Michael Grey on the subject
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/michael-gray-on-the-free-press-and-the-nationals-response.13147
and a response by its editor, Callum Baird. Although I do not agree with the Editor’s point of view, he has at least allowed replies by the readership, some of which are quite scathing on the Herald’s capitulation of its integrity.
Court Diary
Wednesday – High Court – Fraudco preliminary hearing
Thursday – Court of Session
First HearingP989/15 Pet: Michael Ashley for Judicial Review – Brodies LLP – Burness Paull LLP
I’m not sure if this is Ashley v SFA re his dual ownership fine or his claim re King’s FPP
Homunculus,
Not the first time a club has had to make a signing as a result of a £5m loss “burning a hole in its pockets.”
You joke about Ally but I think Wilson, Jackson, Jack et al deserve some credit for forcing the boards hand also.
upthehoops 2nd February 2016 at 6:43 pm #
UTH, I read that through and didn’t see much to complain about, given the constituency he was speaking to and about . I don’t agree with his sentiments . What surprised me is that he’s basically saying that the churchmen, the businessmen and other men of money are good guys and not sectarian, whereas it is the working-class supporter who is letting down the club and Scottish Protestantism . He would know more about that than me . The Herald has got itself in a bit of a bind,though . What happens next time questionable singing is heard ?
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/song-midis/Its_the_Same_the_Whole_World_Over_(3).htm
test
paddy malarkey 2nd February 2016 at 7:22 pm #
======================
Paddy, I’d love to engage with you on this but it looks like the mods have removed the post I made that you are responding to. I’ve been on the naughty step on here in my early days so I better leave it at that. I haven’t bought a Herald for many a long year in any case. Suffice to say my disgust with it has reached a new low.
easyJambo 2nd February 2016 at 5:30 pm
‘……I’m not sure if this is Ashley v SFA re his dual ownership fine or his claim re King’s FPP…’
____
eJ,I think its the FPP matter. I keyed in P989/pet and got the (November last)newspaper reference as below:
‘…Ashley has called for a judicial review of the SFA’s decision to declare the Rangers chairman, Dave King, “fit and proper” to take up his role at Ibrox.Court officials have confirmed that a hearing will take place at the court of session in Edinburgh on 4 February.’
See you in Court!
I was thinking about the wholesale condemnation of James Doleman on certain TRFC supporters sites. Why?. Every time I read his tweets from this court or another all he does is report it as it is. No opinion.
But he is ridiculed right left and centre by a – I’m not sure how to describe them – faction of TRFC support, as being a Taig Rangers hater. Really? , for reporting on court cases like John Clark & Easyjambo?
Give me a break please.
I seem to remember that at the First Tier Tribunal our posters were there at the start, maybe one from the SMSM on the first day, therafter none. But we got a comprehensive report thanks to JC, EJ.
We need new journalists like this.
James Doleman crowdfunded in order to attend London, so what? If people were prepared to do that, brilliant! In my opinion. That is democracy. Why didn’t the ‘bears’ do likewise? It was as much in your interest to attend that court as was the rest of Scottish Football.
The problem is for TRFC nowadays you may control the press, but, you do not control us, nor the honest reporting of what happens inside Hampden or Ibrox.
John Clark 2nd February 2016 at 7:40 pm #
=========================
Will this be the full hearing on the SFA King FPP case John?
All the players at Firhill wearing short sleeved shirts !
upthehoops, don’t worry about the naughty step, been there. the worst that can happen is piles. You will be forgiven eventually.
John Clark 2nd February 2016 at 7:40 pm #
easyJambo 2nd February 2016 at 5:30 pm‘……I’m not sure if this is Ashley v SFA re his dual ownership fine or his claim re King’s FPP…’____eJ,I think its the FPP matter. I keyed in P989/pet and got the (November last)newspaper reference as below:‘…Ashley has called for a judicial review of the SFA’s decision to declare the Rangers chairman, Dave King, “fit and proper” to take up his role at Ibrox.Court officials have confirmed that a hearing will take place at the court of session in Edinburgh on 4 February.’
See you in Court!
==========================
That sounds right. Grant Russell told me that the other case was next Thursday and was scheduled for two days.
I should be at the High Court tomorrow, but I can’t make Thursday.
bit off topic but all over twitter ryan giggs is going to be new celtic manager.don’t know what to think on that one
think its a spoof account,i hope so lol
This real or more rubbish left in the calendar by The Rolls Court service ?
COURT 5
Before MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH
Wednesday, 3 February 2016
At half past 10
TRIAL LIST
Part Heard
HC-2014-000601 Peires v Bickerton’s Aerodromes Ltd
Not before 2 o’clock
INTERIM HEARINGS LIST
HC-2015-002185 Sports Direct International Plc v Rangers International Football Club Plc
ianagain 2nd February 2016 at 9:42 pm #
Not before 2 o’clock INTERIM HEARINGS LIST HC-2015-002185 Sports Direct International Plc v Rangers International Football Club Plc
====================
Probably just a first hearing with regard to whether or not the gagging order is valid or enforceable.
Cuddly bear @ 9.59It’s an illegal chant, fans are/have been getting lifted for it, that’s not going to change. There is no debate within the Rangers support about any of that.
————————
Yes, they seem to have accepted the outlawing of the “Billy Boys” with their customary decorum and good grace.
I’m copying this over to SFM from CQN because whilst it comes at the issue from a Celtic perspective it is interesting as the article in question suggests the only way Celtic or TRFC or Aberdeen can grow is through CL qualification.
It was this idea that killed RFC yet they and Celtic fans still cling to it. I blame our media, too busy making lack of CL qualification or treble into a rod to beat RD with, to actually think about the economic strangledhold our game is in which is in fact made worse by the CL if one team has regular access to its rewards more than any others.
Have a read at this.
http://swissramble.blogspot.ch/2015/06/celtic-everythings-gone-green.html?m=1
He agrees PLS wage should be lower but also explains the constraints on growth.
Swiss Rambler is a well respected bean counter and concludes Celtic or PL (if it’s his personal decision overruling the Board and club policy ) is “damned if he does invest to get into CL damned if he doesn’t.
I’ve gone back to him to ask – with qualifying rounds to negotiate which means CL group and rewards not guaranteed, how much in Celtic’s straightjacket situation should they invest over a 3 year contract period to break even?
I did not inlude risk of injury or regulars heading south in the summer or lack of match fitness although a sensible risk analysis should factor these in.
My view now is we are costed out of the CL as would be ANY Scottish club, but with the Europa paying a bit more, if we got two teams in it after Xmas, we would have a much healthier domestic competition where no one died by speculating to accumulate with future winnings or tax payers money or debts not paid.
We can ignore economics, scream lack of ambition all we like but it’s economics as explained in the link that govern our policy.
We were in Europa after Xmas last year but failed this. Have a title and LC win with another two domestic trophies to be won.
What we are doing by insisting that CL qualification is a must and urged by a media too stupid to recognise the economics at best or malevolent at worst, is making a rod for the back of ANY Celtic manager.
Time we stopped building hurdles that cannot be vaulted and measured success against those that can.
– from CQN
Cuddlybear
If you need clarification on what a poster said, you should wait for an answer before drawing a conclusion. And if you have concluded that a comment is offensive, let the mods know.
I don’t think the post in question was offensive or remotely ‘bigoted’ as you put it. It seemed innocuous enough to me at least. Had it even hinted at such sentiment, it would have been removed.
I know it’s a slog here sometimes for Rangers fans, but with respect, I think you are rushing to take offence st something that wasn’t at all intended to be so.
If you disagree contact me by email or PM.
upthehoops 2nd February 2016 at 7:49 pm
‘….Will this be the full hearing on the SFA King FPP case…’
____________
I don’t know, I’m afraid, uth. I missed the first proceedings because I was at the other court dealing that day with the criminal proceedings!
The basic questions are:
did the SFA follow its own ‘rules’ and its own understanding of what under their rules are to be regarded as the criteria according to which F&P are to be judged?
if they did, are their ‘rules and understanding’ utterly unreasonable in themselves?( e.g aimed at excluding people on grounds of race, colour, creed, etc etc)
if they are reasonable, were they applied consistently, and on the basis of fact?And were all relevant facts taken into account?
And were the people affected afforded the opportunity to speak to their case?
Or some such, and so on. ( at £xxx per hour!)
Broadly speaking, the Court needs to to be able to agree or not agree that the rules are fair, and have been fairly applied.
I think it might be quite interesting to learn whether the apparently huge discretion that the SFA Board has is deemed to be reasonable, or , again,whether the criminal convictions of a person can of themselves be deemed to render him not f&p………..
[And I would thoroughly recommend to any poster on this blog within travel distance of the High St in Edinburgh, who has the leisure to do so and hasn’t done it before, to go along to Parliament House, behind St Giles, and spend some time seeing the ‘Law’ in action].
My hope is that there will be no ‘reporting restrictions’. It’s bloody annoying, when , as a member of the public sitting in open court and you hear interesting stuff, you’re told you can’t go public about what you heard!
The ‘Press’ ARE allowed( within limits) to tweet and email material that members of the public are not allowed to go public about.
So you and I can sit all day in Court, hear all kinds of interesting things being discussed, but, if reporting restrictions have been put in place, canny say word, in any public forum. ( But I tell my ever-loving wife everything! The Courts appear not to know that that is , over the piece, as effective as an announcement by the UN in plenary session)…….. No, Mrs C, I’m not seri…oucchh!That was sore!)
Big Pink 3rd February 2016 at 12:10 am
Fair enough, will leave the moderating to moderators in future!
I like BBC Radio Scotland. Very often I listen to off the ball by those two eejits on a Saturday. Then I leave it on for a while and enjoy all that Scottish stuff.
Today, I went on a failed mission to B&Q and Argos and ended up in the local. I arrived home at about 6.30pm and turned on RS to listen to their usual sh*te about football. I was in bed by about 7pm. I woke up at midnight. Radio Scotland was still on and had some lovely music on it. I then had my dinner.
Now my point is this. Why can’t the bigwigs at Radio Scotland swap the Sports Producer with the music producer? It can only be an improvement.
On another point, on Sunday I was not feeling very well so I said to myself ‘you are not going out today’. I settled in to listen to the game on RS. At half time it was still 1-1 so I made the effort to go down to the pub to see the second half. My reckoning being that Celtic still had a good chance.
I sat with my cousin and mentioned I hadn’t seen the red card incident as I was listening to it on the radio. My cousin who is a loud mouth then mocked me in front of the whole pub because the game was being shown live on BBC Scotland TV.
I felt a bit daft. 
Fans v Journalists.
Has anyone else noticed the difference between the attitude of opinions and actions against journalists from one club and others?
This site, thankfully, represents fans and supporters of not a few clubs in Scotland. The reporting of many clubs in the press is minimal and their reportage is usually connected in some way or another to the relationship at some point in time to the big two clubs in Glasgow.
Most of Scottish football reporting in the media surrounds Celtic and Rangers.
It would be an idiot not to notice the positive hyperspin (is that a word?) towards TRFC in recent months and the free advertising they get at the end of their ‘articles’ regarding ticket prices and how to obtain same.
There is no club in Scotland who could have more complaint against the media than Celtic. At every chance they get they run our club down. Seek every angle they can find to spin a negative side to the story.
Ever wondered why so many ex Celtic players are critics of Celtic? I’ll tell you why.
That is the norm in Scottish press. You start with the premise that Celtic bad Rangers good. If you don’t fit into that mantra you are not welcomed, you will not be paid, you will not be employed. It’s easy, just be a rat against your former club who paid you well. And against the fans who supported you.
How many ex Rangers players do you find running down their ex club? Rarely.
Celtic? by the dozen.
We all know footballers are idiots, billy big baws when at the top of their game, spending money like it would last forever. But it doesn’t. So your choice is this:
1/ Rangers legend supporting Warburton & King revival
2/ Celtic legend – Celtic in crisis, Ronny due the sack because of treble failure
Both options pay £1k per article. (Ghost written of course)
And yet,
I have never heard or even hinted at the idea of anyone in the media to be sacked by the Celtic support. On line at least. We just mock them.
The concerted campaign against journalists in Scotland is unique to one club only. Guess which one?
tony 2nd February 2016 at 9:02 pm #bit off topic but all over twitter ryan giggs is going to be new celtic manager.don’t know what to think on that one===================
The thing about this is the fact that the league sponsor running with it as well seems a bit like trying to destabilize a team before a big game ie tonight’s game smells a bit fishy to me just saying like.
Shug – whilst ManU continue to underpeform…it seems like the only way the club can ‘retain’ a world class profile…is to pay a world class/overinflated fee for a player(s) like Ronaldo or Messi or even Ibra for a swansong!
I’m not a Celtic fan but even Ican see that there is something not right with the media here just look at the headlines yesterday Ronny gets manager of the month as Celtic sound out new manager.However it’s not just Celtic that it affects it annoys me to see my teams manager linked as well to the job thank goodness Stubbs is only 5/1 lol.
Not to sound like a broken record or anything
, but while I absolutely agree Celtic do get their share of media abuse, lets not pretend they are the only club that suffers from this!
Aside from the SMSMs shining light that is the mighty TRFC, there are few clubs that escape the snide and underhand tactics of the press. Many is a time when Aberdeen have come up against Celtic or Rangers and in the build up to the game the press just happen to release some story about one of our players being unsettled and wanting to leave, or the manager is leaving or….. I think it must be only this last year that the Record stopped dragging out a story about Neil Simpson and “that” tackle every time we play one of the “big two”. I’m sure most of us non-Celtic/TRFC supporters could regale you with similar stories related to their own clubs. Generally speaking, the more the press felt a club threatened the duopoly, the louder they preached their rubbish.
(Of course managers such as Ferguson and McLean would make great use of these stories to build up their teams prior to these games!)
Richard Gordon & Jim Spence aside I wouldn’t trust any of them – with my special award going to the one that proclaims to be a St Mirren supporter.
I find all the talk of a Celtic manager failing to win a treble being a failure absolutely laughable. In the clubs entire history only two have managed to do it. Jock Stein, the club’s greatest ever manager and Martin O’Neill, who was given substantial sums of money to do it. It’s far from an easy thing to do.
Can I cover the “but Rangers aren’t in it this year” argument. This is true, to be fair I doubt Rangers would make that much of a difference anyway. No more so than any number of other clubs. . However that is failing to see the point. The main problem with the with winning treble is winning both cup competitions. The team who wins the league is the best team in the country in my opinion. They can have “off-days” so can everyone else. They can have injuries, so can everyone else. They can have suspensions, so can everyone else. They can have bad decisions, so can everyone else. The point is, the league balances out, the best team over the entire season wins it.
In cup competitions if you have a bad day, one of many days when competing in two cups, then you are out. It doesn’t matter if the opposition is Morton, Ross County or Inverness, you are out of the competition. It doesn’t matter how much possession you had or how many chances you had. It’s a series of “one-off” games and to fail in any one is to fail in that competition.
For Ronny Deila not to win the treble (in his first two seasons) just makes him one of the majority of Celtic managers who have failed to do the same thing. It’s a convenient stick to beat him with, but only if you have utter disrespect for every other club in Scottish football. Who are at the very least competing in the same cup competitions and doing their absolute best to win in every round. Celtic’s failure to win a treble more often is down to other teams being better on the day. It is not about Rangers not being in the top division.
Good luck to Hibs and Ross County in the cup final btw. I hope the team and the fans have a great day out and put on a show to make Scottish football proud. You are both there because you deserve to be. May the better team (on the day) win.
There can be little doubt, that as a part of the man’s genius, Jock Stein ran the Scottish football press. I’m not even certain it was a plan, I think he just dominated the room, or training ground, by strength of character whenever the hacks (better quality hacks in them days) were near. Even after he’d left the club, Celtic enjoyed a good press, though I’m sure the hacks of a blue persuasion were keen to re-address the situation and soon were putting a more positive spin on the Ibrox club. That positive spin changed into a whirlwind with the arrival of Murray!
Throughout it all, though, both members of the OF received fawning press in comparison with the rest of the clubs – combined!
Things changed under Murray. Indeed, the press came under Murray. I doubt anything was ever published about Rangers that wasn’t run past him first. Hence the ‘Downfall’ of Rangers became a possibility/probability.
Rangers fans were happy with their press. Celtic fans weren’t. The rest didn’t have a press, they were just space fillers.
In the past four years, things have changed. By dint of the power of ‘Rangersness’, the media don’t only bend to the will of the various Ibrox boards and management, they run scared of the Ibrox mob. In his silly boy way, Whyte seemed to galvanise the support into a ‘hubristic attack is the best form of defence’ type mode, then Green took it to a new level with the ‘victim’ mentality. While Whyte’s style was to be ‘Mr nice guy’, Green was ‘Mr Angry’, and the supporters followed him like a Messiah. He worked the press pack like a good ‘un, and got all the publicity he wanted, and all without question, even to the bitter end. But there was always a disconnect between Green and the worst of the bears. He spoke of being one of them (the supporters), but he never was.
Then came King. Immediately he was in bed with the loudest and most militant of them all. He knew how to work them. He just had to say ‘boycott’ and they (the worst elements) were putty in his hands. And this is where things have really got out of hand. For not only do TRFC get a fawning press, with coverage their PR firm writes, the hacks are now afraid of the mob. Even Graham Spiers always followed up his most hard hitting (and they weren’t all that hard hitting) efforts with some soft puff piece, and always spoke of ‘sections’ of the support as though the badness was minimal.
But now the Ibrox board have joined the intimidation of the press. It’s not enough to have their undying loyalty, they need to rule over it, totally. It’s a combined assault on the Scottish media, basically saying, if you don’t support us enough; if you’re not loyal enough; we will turn the assault dogs on you. Then, if that’s not enough, we will set our lawyers on you.
As before, in the case of Spiers and Ms Haggerty, the media have instantly bowed to the pressure. It is a very unhealthy situation, and it is getting worse at each stage. And each stage seems to be where things are getting publicly dodgy for the club’s board and they need some high profile demonstration of their, or their followers’, power, as a squirrel to assuage the mob!
A bit like politics really; when you have no policies, attack!
Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 10:34 am
Totally agree with what you say, hom. It is, of course, just about ‘Rangers’, these attacks on Deila. Now that the Armageddon, that was to lead to total dominance by Celtic, that would have ruined Scottish football, has not come to pass, the media have to create a problem with that.
Scottish football is too healthy! Sack the Celtic manager, it’s all his fault!
See, we really do need a ‘Rangers’, just to level the game up, because…it’s too level! In some ways, even, it’s too good.
Tayred
I had a wee chuckle at your post and thought “we are not alone”. “we” being Hearts fans.
It got to the stage where Hearts fans were so cheesed off with this approach that there used to be regular threads over on Kickback inviting fans to suggest their own tabloid headline for any upcoming match against Celtic/Rangers (RIP).
Like you, us Jambos had become weary of the same old predictable dross being printed about a Hearts player possibly on the move to one of the Glasgow clubs – always just before the game , of course.
That aside, we also suffered from the disbelieving , incredulous Glasgow media who seemed incapable of reporting on HMFC without resorting to the “Mad Vlad” headline. In retrospect , they may claim the moral high ground on this but Vlad didn’t help himself when he openly criticized the state of Scottish football and the corruption therein , coupled with the Glasgow press lackeys who were happy to go along with it. Their vilification of Miko in the aftermath of the Davisgate scandal was an utter disgrace . But then you could hardly expect them to comment adversely on a (another ?) disgraceful refereeing performance which benefited Rangers – much easier to gloss over that and focus on Miko.
Speaking of “Mad Vlad” – for some reason , despite the ludicrous claims emanating from Ibrox over the last 4 years (and have these claims been any more credible than Mad Vlad’s “visionary statements”, LOL ?) there seems to be a complete lack of “mad” at Ibrox. At least Vlad actually got HMFC into the Champions League (OK, 3rd qualifying round). How long for Rangers ?
There is quite a telling article in the current issue of the web magazine ‘Scottish Review’ by Kenneth Roy, a former BBC Scotland correspondent, regarding the Herald sackings.
http://www.scottishreview.net/KennethRoy38a.html
Roy recalls his own experience when BBC Scotland made a token apology to RFC following his covert recording of an interview with its then manager, Willie Waddell. He ends his piece with, “But I hope it (BBC Scotland) would be more protective of its journalists than the Herald, which regards a simple message of support for a beleaguered colleague as a sacking offence.” I wonder if Roy is aware of the treatment meted out to Jim Spense by the beaks at Pacific Quay?
Allyjambo 3rd February 2016 at 11:39 am # Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 10:34 am
Totally agree with what you say, hom.
Scottish football is too healthy! Sack the Celtic manager, it’s all his fault!
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Not sure I agree that winning the treble should not be the measure of success for a current Celtic manager considering their player budget compared to other clubs? Of course cup ties are one-off games that can produce results that surprise. Over the course of the season the league is predestined though. Paddy Power odds today (before Dons v Celtic tonight but with 15 games to go):
Celtic 1/100
Dons 20/1
Hearts 100/1
Competitive/healthy? nah!
Allyjambo, Agree with your comments about Jock Stein and the press. Another ex Celtic manager who could effectively deal with them was Gordon Strachan. My goodness could he deliver a put down when they said something stupid (which was often). I used to love his pressers.
bordersdon 3rd February 2016 at 12:17 pm
“Celtic 1/100Dons 20/1Hearts 100/1Competitive/healthy? nah!”
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BD. The bookies do not gamble on who will win and do not calculate their odds on that assumption. It is simply a calculation reached on the the basis of how much has been wagered. If you want your team to be favourite, just pop into the bookies and put a few grand on them, because that is the only thing it reflects.
bordersdon 3rd February 2016 at 12:17 pm # Allyjambo 3rd February 2016 at 11:39 am # Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 10:34 am Totally agree with what you say, hom. Scottish football is too healthy! Sack the Celtic manager, it’s all his fault!—————————————————————————————————————-Not sure I agree that winning the treble should not be the measure of success for a current Celtic manager considering their player budget compared to other clubs? Of course cup ties are one-off games that can produce results that surprise. Over the course of the season the league is predestined though. Paddy Power odds today (before Dons v Celtic tonight but with 15 games to go): Celtic 1/100 Dons 20/1 Hearts 100/1 Competitive/healthy? nah!
________________________
My post wasn’t about the merits of Ronny Deila or whether he should be sacked. My post was about the motivation of the hacks who revel in his ‘failings’. They are not writing these stories to encourage Celtic to get a new manager so that the club will, next season, win the treble, they are writing it purely because they want to find a new slant on Armageddon.
For most of the past 4 years the media have extoled how the demise of Rangers has been the death-nell of Scottish football, that Celtic would crush all before them. They have certainly done that, though not with the aplomb that might have been expected, in terms of the league, but have been unable to do so with the cup competitions.
If, without fan power, TRFC had been allowed direct access to the SPL, I have no doubt, whatsoever, that, had the trophies still been shared exactly as they have been, Ronny Deila would not be under the media pressure he is, for the hacks would have had to be writing crushing assessments of how their favourite club was doing, to make their criticism of Deila valid, and the Ibrox board, and hordes, would not have liked that!
In all that makes sense about the financial reality in Scottish football, Celtic should have won a lot more than they have done, the fact that they haven’t is something to be celebrated by the rest of us, though, bizarrely, it is seen by many of the ‘Rangers’-centric press as a problem. Or, as we know it to be, a useful squirrel
Corrupt official 3rd February 2016 at 12:33 pm # bordersdon 3rd February 2016 at 12:17 pm
“Celtic 1/100Dons 20/1Hearts 100/1Competitive/healthy? nah!” ————————————————————————— BD. The bookies do not gamble on who will win and do not calculate their odds on that assumption. It is simply a calculation reached on the the basis of how much has been wagered. If you want your team to be favourite, just pop into the bookies and put a few grand on them, because that is the only thing it reflects.
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Not sure if what you say is strictly true CO but even if it is I think the message is the same. No? Much as I would love it if the Dons won the league I will not be placing a wager at 20/1 (or 100/1).
Allyjambo 3rd February 2016 at 11:39 am #
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Indeed, it is an interesting shift in position.
Woe is me, Rangers are not in the top division, Scottish football is over, Celtic will win everything.
In reality Celtic win the top division but are far from dominating Scottish football. A look at who has won the cups each year tells us that.
Scottish Cup
11/12 Hearts
12/13 Celtic
13/14 St Johnstone
14/15 Inverness Caledonian Thistle
League Cup
11/12 Kilmarnock
12/13 St Mirren
13/14 Aberdeen
14/15 Celtic
15/16 Hibs or Ross County.
Celtic can hardly be said to be dominating Scottish football, having won 1 Scottish Cup in four years and 1 League Cup in the same time. That didn’t work out particularly well for the prophets of doom.
Can I refer people back to my previous. Celtic not winning trebles has nothing to do with Rangers, at all, even a wee bit. It is other teams being better than Celtic on the day in cup competitions. That must surely be good for Scottish football. The trophies are being spread out and fans are seeing more success. That must encourage supporters and particularly younger ones to go out and support their local team.
Can I also just add, as a wee positive to Celtic so as it is not all perceived as me being negative towards one club. They have been living within their means over that period as far as I can see. I think this is a very good way to go, both for the club and for Scottish football. Long may it continue.
Armageddon my arris (the sharp edge formed by the intersection of two surfaces).
BD. The bookies do not gamble on who will win and do not calculate their odds on that assumption. It is simply a calculation reached on the the basis of how much has been wagered. If you want your team to be favourite, just pop into the bookies and put a few grand on them, because that is the only thing it reflects.
———————————
Bookies price up the chance in their opinion of something happening, subsequent wagering will affect price moves to an extent. Ie if one bookie has taken enough of one team they will duck under the others to ensure those wanting to back that team will go elsewhere, but the prices reflect the chance of success far more than how much money is taken
If any price is ever even remotely wrong, algorithms will point it out to the big syndicates and it will quickly be taken and the price will correct quickly.
Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 1:05 pm
As an aside on this topic, I can imagine that, if by some trick of fate Celtic had found themselves in Rangers position, any bear who dared to suggest their club not winning everything in sight was a good thing, would have been tarred and feathered (metaphorically, of course) and chased out of town on a rail – by his own fellow supporters.
Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 1:05 pm #
They have been living within their means over that period as far as I can see. I think this is a very good way to go, both for the club and for Scottish football. Long may it continue.
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Yes as far as we know Celtic have been living within their means but their means is so far in excess of any other current team in the league that it is inevitable (I think) that they will win the league for the foreseeable future. How do we change that? Not sure but a look at how money in the system is distributed could help.
Allyjambo 3rd February 2016 at 1:18 pm #Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 1:05 pm
As an aside on this topic, I can imagine that, if by some trick of fate Celtic had found themselves in Rangers position, any bear who dared to suggest their club not winning everything in sight was a good thing, would have been tarred and feathered (metaphorically, of course) and chased out of town on a rail – by his own fellow supporters.
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Nope
If Celtic had found themselves in Rangers position they would have rightfully lost out to Spartans in gaining access to the 3rd division
And the reason?
Because the SFA and SMSM would be united in calling for “Sporting Integrity” to be applied without fear or favour
goosygoosy 3rd February 2016 at 1:35 pm
I have no doubt you are correct, but my post was comparing the hypothetical reaction of Rangers supporters should Celtic have gone, to the known reaction of Celtic supporters in the actual event of Rangers demise. I was viewing it with the WATP mind-set as the driving force behind the way the bears would view any lack of complete superiority without Celtic around.
jimbo 3rd February 2016 at 12:18
My favourite ( probably because it was the only one I heard “live”)
Reporter: “Gordon, can we have a quick word please?”
Strachan: “Velocity.”
RE trebles , TRFC competes in all the cup competitions in Scotland and have done since their inception, even the one we don’t qualify for (this season anyway) .
Allyjambo 3rd February 2016 at 1:47 pm # goosygoosy 3rd February 2016 at 1:35 pm
I have no doubt you are correct,————-
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I’m not so sure he is correct. Jist sayin!
With regards to the sharing of the cups since we entered this period of glorious armageddon. On their day many diddies will put up a good fight against Celtic, as can be seen by the winners lists posted above. The problem going back to pre-armageddon was the diddies had to get rid of both members of the Old Firm.
One of the two were quite often knocked out of cups, I can recall numerous Celtic/Rangers v Diddy finals. I’d have to dig back into the records, but my dodgy memory doesn’t recall too many Rangers v Celtic finals, certainly not the number you might expect, although I admit I might just not have been paying attention due to lack of interest by that point!
I thought Strachan did bring some light humour to press interviews but sometimes was a little unprofessional with some of his comments.
Big game tonight and it appears that a fake twitter account was setup with the intention of spreading the Ryan Giggs rumour last night, it may well be a coincidence but our hardest game of the season is tonight and rumours like this can unsettle a person / manager / team / fans. There are some really sad individuals out there if this was the intention of this.
The policy of the board since Lennons arrival has been to sell the best players every season and watching Southampton denying Arsenal yet another victory down South makes you realise how big a loss Forster / Van Djik / Wanyama have been to Celtic, the backbone of a really good team.
All the recent talk of not winning a treble being a sackable offence for any Celtic manager should note that Lennon failed to do this in 4 seasons, in fact he only won 1 cup in that period. Has anyone questioned why TheRangers have failed to win a cup in the past 3 seasons going on 4 ? Not even the Petrofak cup ! given they have the 2nd highest wage bill in the country this fact really is shocking but im sure that will come to an end with a hard fought victory against whoever they are playing in this seasons Petrofak final.
Homunculus 3rd February 2016 at 1:05 pm #Allyjambo 3rd February 2016 at 11:39 am #============================
Armageddon my arris (the sharp edge formed by the intersection of two surfaces).
I have added it to my WordPress dictionary! I would say “chapeau” but another garment may be more appropriate to this area 
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Homunculus…”sharp” comment indeed
Will you be claiming copyright?
According to what I heard on Radio Scotland last night TRFC played the first half at least of their game last event like a hybrid of Brazil 1970 and Barcelona at th height of othe tiki taka era such was the report by the RRM. Was this some kind of aural delusion, please help?
Here’s is a wee guide certain chaps at the FTT ought to have read before getting turned over
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/gray_writing-judgments-which-wont-be-overturned.pdf
Homunculous/AllyJambo: I have posted previously on Celtic websites at the end of each season that I was pleased that: Hearts/St Johnstone/Inverness Caledonian Thistle/Kilmarnock/St Mirren/Aberdeen and now Hibs or Ross County have won silverware. In fact I think I one time also included all the finalists (that weren’t Celtic) and praising them all for having their “Day in the Hampden sun (sic)”. That’s 9 teams that have won silverware over this period. That’s great for every fans of Scottish football right?
AJ – you reference what if the boot was on the other foot? I know you were talking about fans’ attitudes but permit me the deliberate misinterpretation…It was when Celtic were in the doldrums and regularly coming 3rd, 4th, 5th in the league whilst sorting themselves out financially, that Rangers sailed on serenely to their 9IAR, albeit as we now know to have been on someone else’s dime. I don’t remember any talk of “not having a competitive Celtic” diminishing their achievements. Rangers did win one treble during those 9 years of dominance (and 2 since) but I also don’t remember Walter Smith’s job beingcalled into question every time they didn’t win.
Final aside (and this is entirely my personal view and should not be transposed onto any other fan of any colour): that OldGers lorded it over the rest of the country and were lauded for it, ridiculing Celtic for having to restructure and not having a big enough biscuit tin to compete for players, but all the time spending “other peepels money”, delivered through the financially (and, for me, morally) bankrupt BoS is what really rankles. I don’t believe we should award the championship to 2nd place teams but I do think that some asterisks should come into play…
ianagain 3rd February 2016 at 2:46 pm #
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An interesting read, thanks for the link.
I would take exception to one part.
“9 Proof read for consistency and issues of cut and paste.”
I think she probably means “copy and paste”. It seems unlikely given the context that cut and paste would be the appropriate way to go about things.
It is a tad ironic that is in the advice with regards proof reading.
essexbeancounter 3rd February 2016 at 2:28 pm #
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Unlike my predecessor personas (or should that be personae) I choose not to claim copyright on that which is already in the public domain.
goosygoosy 3rd February 2016 at 1:35 pm #
NopeIf Celtic had found themselves in Rangers position they would have rightfully lost out to Spartans in gaining access to the 3rd divisionAnd the reason?Because the SFA and SMSM would be united in calling for “Sporting Integrity” to be applied without fear or favour.==============================================================
That is something I have said from the start and not just Celtic would have been that way for anyone but sevco.
ianagain 3rd February 2016 at 2:46 pm #Here’s is a wee guide certain chaps at the FTT ought to have read before getting turned over
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/gray_writing-judgments-which-wont-be-overturned.pdf
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It never ceases to amaze me how some people can take a very complex and dry subject, like the law, and turn it into a pleasant and easy to understand read. A very clever lady, methinks.
Thanks for posting it Ian.
Sports Direct drop action against Rangers
https://mobile.twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/694918996987092995
I may have mentioned this before but I’ve been a paying customer (as opposed to a “supporter”) of the Dandy Dons for 56 years now…. I pause here to wonder at my sanity. The thing is that over that time we have always been a wee club compared to the big two and all that’s changed from a brilliant 70-72 (second twice and a cup) and the glorious 80’s is that the difference in resources/money is so wide that pulling together a decent team and a great manager to compete on even terms is gey near impossible. Of course Celtic will win the league for the forseeable future, I discount the current Rangers who I see as another Gretna but with 40,000 crowds and no rich benefactor. The 40,000 crowds will mean that they probably will eventually get in the Premiership and be ok, as long as they get rid of the spivs of course.
Does this mean that the rest of us give up because we can’t spend a few million every transfer window? And it’s not just players, there isn’t a back room boy or manager in Scottish fitba who wouldn’t go to Celtic if the offer was made. There’s nothing fundamentally evil about this, it’s all about the money. Celtic, of course, have a different set of problems to deal with; they have to maintain the standard and keep recruiting the right players and management. They do have the luxury of being able to afford the odd million plus flop but that’s business. As far as I can see they appear to run themselves pretty well and live within their means so best of luck to them.I firmly believe that a more equitable distribution of wealth would, in the long term, be advantageous for Celtic in a more competitive league but the problem is that it is the long term. They are not going to entertain such a radical approach. Neither, of course, are the Dons who, I suspect, fear that the advantage they have, even if less significant, over most of the rest of the diddies would also be under threat. So it’s nae going to happen.
I don’t lose any sleep over the advantage that Celtic have legitimately gained, due primarily to the crowds they get, and as for the good old days with the former rangers being more competitive/interesting? I can assure you none of us diddies gave a hoot for which of them happened to win the league
I’m hoping the Dons can win tonight and march on to an unexpected championship but my head says not but my heart won’t change….c’mon the Dons!
The Preliminary Hearing for the Fraudco case at the High Court today has been continued into tomorrow, with a 10 am start.
Time wise it will clash with the Ashley v SFA across the road at the Court of Session.
I’m not free tomorrow but I’d expect JC to attend the CoS case. It certainly should be more interesting than the High Court.
Jungle Jim 3rd February 2016 at 4:43 pm #Sports Direct drop action against Rangershttps://mobile.twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/694918996987092995
SDI agree to pay TRFC costs
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Accounting wise
Can SDI charge the costs of this case to RR?
goosygoosy 3rd February 2016 at 5:50 pm #Jungle Jim 3rd February 2016 at 4:43 pm #Sports Direct drop action against Rangershttps://mobile.twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/694918996987092995 SDI agree to pay TRFC costs ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Accounting wiseCan SDI charge the costs of this case to RR?
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I would suggest they could only do that if it was raised on behalf of RR. Nice thought, though.
easyJambo 3rd February 2016 at 5:12 pm #
‘….I’m not free tomorrow but I’d expect JC to attend the CoS case. It certainly should be more interesting than the High Court.’
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Yes, I’ll opt for the F&P judicial review hearing. It’ll at least broaden the number of legal chappies’/chappesses’ faces that I know!
As eJ implies, proceedings in the High Court were mostly dull and unexciting. Reporting restrictions are still in force , we were reminded, so I can’t mention specific ‘dull and unexciting’ things.
But I think I may say that each of the defence Counsel in turn had something to say about about the framing of the charges against his particular client, and they all seemed to have a feeling that there were some gaps in the documentation which they would have wished the Advocate-Depute to fill in, in the preliminary hearings.
His Lordship made it plain that he was anxious that every effort be made to work towards the as-soon-as-possible point where all were ready to go to Trial.
What is it with all these preliminary hearings before court cases? They have been going on for months. Why can’t they just get on with the trial? Or is it a scam so that lawyers can make more money?
Reading “ writing judgments which wont be overturned “
I wondered how posters here constructed their posts?
I copy, cut and paste, and “write” bits into a word document then tidy it up.
(more cutting and pasting etc.)
Then re-read (checking spelling and the difficult bit, if it makes sense!)
Then if necessary FACT CHECK!
When it is ready for publication, I copy and paste it into the comment box and submit.
If it looks ok then no need to edit any further, equals synergy, I now have a word document copy of my post.
I recently came across a very interesting article by a fast jet pilot :
http://www.fastjetperformance.com/podcasts/how-i-almost-destroyed-a-50-million-war-plane-when-display-flying-goes-wrong-and-the-normalisation-of-deviance
Apart from being interesting in its’ own right I started thinking about how a theory noted therein called the ‘Normalisation of Deviance’ had applicability in Scottish Football.
Absent any checks (SMSM, football authorities, Club Board, politicians, etc) it seems to me that the bears have come to believe that their increasingly bile-filled and bullying behavior is normal and acceptable. A ‘Normalisation of Deviance’.
It is only when it is held up to the light by people like the internet bampots or journalists outwith their orbit that there are any challenges – challenges that are not understood, welcomed or in any way accepted.
Such persons are called out as ‘haters’ and, by categorising them as such, in the minds of bears they thus do not have any legitimacy.
I have to say I am unsure if there is a way back from this situation and I really fear that we are heading for some major eruptions in the year ahead.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Armageddon alert 🙂
There’s Only One Willie Miller 3rd February 2016 at 7:45 pm #
What is it with all these preliminary hearings before court cases? They have been going on for months. Why can’t they just get on with the trial? Or is it a scam so that lawyers can make more money?
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In major fraud/conspiracy trials with multiple accused there are likely to be arguments or issues re the (non) disclosure of evidence or requests for legal privilege over certain documents. The indictment (charge sheet) will be gone through line by line as to it’s accuracy and validity for each charge and each accused. Uncontroversial evidence or facts have to be agreed, or may require further evidence to be presented to the court.
Each accused is represented by their own counsel who all want to do the best for their individual clients and will challenge the single prosecutor (advocate depute) as to the framing of the charges. The counsels will document their issues and seek answers from the advocate depute. Anything that can’t be resolved or is not delivered on time will be reported back to the judge for decisions or directions.
Each party will ask for time to read, review and act on the information provided. If the Judge agrees then they may be given say two weeks or a month to complete a particular task. Equally so, the judge may issue a direction to make something happen within an hour.
Expert reports/evidence may be required and can take months to produce, then the report is shared with the defence who then get time to consider the content. In a financial case a forensic accountant’s report may be required, or in a medical negligence case several consultants opinions may be required.
Cases can literally take years before getting near a jury.
As far as this case is concerned the indictment extends to 28 pages. There are 6 accused persons represented in court, each with their own counsels. If you consider the number of documents, emails and other files that have already entered the public domain, multiply the number several times over, then you might get an idea of the number of documents involved in disclosure. ……… and that’s before any questions are asked about the charges or evidence to be presented.
It will be a long haul.
redlichtie 3rd February 2016 at 8:18 pm
I have to say I am unsure if there is a way back from this situation and I really fear that we are heading for some major eruptions in the year ahead.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
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I am not looking forward to next season in the top tier. The mood music from the Bears is all about vengeance for all the perceived “injustices” inflicted on them by “haters”. I fear that we will see the victim mentality expressed in some very unpleasant ways, and I don’t mean just singing the “Billy Boys” (although there will be plenty of that, now that impunity is guaranteed).
Of course I may be totally wrong, and the “journey” will continue in sweetness and light. However I honestly think that places like Arbroath will be the best and safest locations for those wanting to watch Scottish football next season.
All so predictable 4 years ago, and now the top tier clubs are going to find out the hard way the real price of the blue pound, unless I am very much mistaken.