It has taken a year longer than predicted, but a critical appraisal of TRFC’s progress through the lower leagues must include recognition of the improvements on the playing field made under the new manager Mark Warburton. SFM usually precludes lengthy discussion on subjective issues like relative abilities of players and managers and referees, but on this subject, and by any objective standard, that is a given.
It is therefore right that he and his players should receive the congratulations of us all at SFM.
It has to be said that, despite the pitfalls, man-traps and honey-pots that remain to be successfully negotiated by the Rangers board, they have implemented their own stark version austerity, contrary to their rhetoric, whilst managing the expectations of their supporters. Perhaps some of what we have come to term “reasonable” Rangers fans would argue that the lack of humility still evident in the demeanour of the TRFC board is an essential part of managing those fans whilst imposing the austerity package on them.
Much like a political party conference, a football board has to play to it’s core support as well as the rest of the country.
How that will pan out is anybody’s guess, just like the random bagatelle that is the “TRFC in Court” saga.
There is also the existential problem to deal with. Many TRFC fans bought into the ‘same club’ myth at the outset, not because they actually believed it, but because it suited them, and because it served as an understandable GIRUY to the rest of us. With the passage of time, the suspension of disbelief, even in that constituency, is now complete and arguably irreversible. The problem for them is that the rest of have not subscribed to that rather bizarre set of contradictions. No other club has to have the “company that operates” prefix. Nor does any other club compel observers to skirt around the facts and search for a form of words acceptable to both sides of a mutually exclusive argument. In short, and existentially, the new Rangers don’t fit into the same kind of comfortable groove that other clubs do.
All of these problems for the new club, and many more, will exercise our minds to a greater or lesser extent moving forward, depending on how sensitive our outrage thresholds are to the various legal and Jungian issues. However we at SFM need to focus our sights on those whose maladministration of football gave rise to those problems in the first place – the SFA, SPFL, and by extension, the clubs – all of them.
Here are some facts;
- The SFA award clubs a licence to participate in UEFA competitions.
- The licence is only to be awarded if the applicant club has no unpaid tax debts.
- Both the club and the SFA have responsibility to notify UEFA of any debts (belt and braces routine in case the club ‘forgets’ to notify the SFA).
- In 2011, one club applied for and was awarded a UEFA licence.
- That club had accepted debts to HMRC – which were outstanding and overdue.
- These facts have been in the public domain since 2012,and were brought to the attention of ALL clubs in Scotland as well as the SFA.
- Nothing has been done by any club, or the SFA, to investigate the claim at #5
- SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan, when asked by an SFM member what he would do if these claims could be substantiated, said; “Nothing!”
- All clubs will be within a few weeks, issuing season ticket renewal forms.
The story contained in points 6 and 7 above is a lengthy and protracted one.
From sources inside two clubs I have been informed that the problem here is subversive and obsessive fans, who don’t represent the vast body of fans generally. On points 1-5, my sources refused to comment. Conversations with SFA officials and print journalists yield the same reaction, with the addition that it is “just Celtic fans obsessed with Rangers” making the claims.
The lesson, if there is one worthy of the name, is that the bearers of the message need to attacked, and the message itself ignored. We could speculate why that is, but that would be to fall into the trap, taking our eye off the ball.
Perhaps I am being naïve, but my inference is that the SFA and clubs have no intention of doing anything about what was at best incompetence on an unbelievable scale, or at worst corruption. A source at Celtic Park was complaining in victim-like fashion to SFM that many Celtic fans were threatening to close their season book accounts over this issue, and that Rangers might have 45,000 SBs next season whilst Celtic could be down to as low as 20,000.
It had never occurred to him that actually supporting an investigation into SFA malpractice would add another 10,000 to the SB takeup.
Overall, the clubs and the SFA want us to believe that an investigation into this licensing issue is a Celtic or Rangers thing. It is neither of those.
An investigation, even if finds that corruption or incompetence has taken place cannot harm Rangers – old or new. There are no titles to strip here. The licence has been used and thrown away, so it cannot be “un – awarded”.
The only people who have anything to lose out of this are those individuals who allowed it to happen – those who our clubs seem so keen to protect.
More importantly, an investigation may be the catalyst for changes in procedures at the SFA to ensure that rigorous accountability is enforced -accountability that the clubs are eager to avoid.
Are we wrong? I hope we are not foolish enough to imagine that everything we believe is set in stone. I am confident that we are correct in our assumptions and in our interpretation of the facts, but please, let’s hear the counter-argument. Thus far, not one word of rebuttal save the usual invective reserved for the messenger has been uttered.
So what do we do? For me it is simple. If we really love our sport, and do nothing, the sport is lost to us completely and irrevocably.
If our view that sporting integrity has been killed off by those in charge of the game is correct, we lose nothing by embarking on a season ticket boycott. However by doing so we may awaken those in charge to the realities of our power as fans and prioritise in their minds the need to listen to what we say.
My view? if they ignore us, they can take their industry that they pretend is sport, and put it somewhere away from my reach. I neither want it nor need it.
If enough of us feel the same way, we WILL get a clean game. If we are as few as the MSM claim we are, at least we will have freed ourselves from a bent one.
I won’t be buying any more season books until I see these issues addressed. It certainly is tough love, but it is the only way for me. And it is driven by love – a love of the game I spent decades supporting, thinking that on the whole it was played on a level playing field. Certainly not driven by a sneering disregard for truth and integrity and a worship of acquisition.
Maybe it’s not just the end of Rangers’ journey then. Certainly if it’s not the end of ours, we find ourselves at a crossroads. The fans, the clubs, and Rangers too. The decision we make over the next few months may determine the future of our clubs, our sport, our Saturday afternoons.
I can tell you this though. Even when the dark facts are laid before us starkly as this, and when football is at the mercy of those who really do hate sport for its own sake, it is worth mentioning the common thread of decency and purpose we have all shared here on SFM, the friendships we have forged, and the love of football we have demonstrated.
Re Shug above
The ref did get that throw in wrong but that was about his only mistake.
Paranoia in the extreme if you think otherwise.
Hibs will be overlooked now for the final as Rangers are certainties according to some.
Just managed to watch the highlights of yesterday’s game.
I know Celtic fans are hurting, Deila is most likely going and Peter Lawwell is going to have to answer a lot of questions, not only about the Res 12, EBT, Fit & Proper stuff but also about what has happened on the park during his watch.
However looking at the match it looks like T’Rangers played the same way as in many games this season. Lots of nice possession but often very little in the way of real attacks / shots on target. Maybe Waghorn (pens excluded) would make a difference but the highlights show the very early chance from Miller, which Gordon saved. Millers first coming from Brown’s deflection and McKay’s wonder strike.The BBC stats have 9 shots with only the three above on target
Other than that, in the highlights package all the other real threats on goal were Celtic’s. 33 shots, ten on target including the two goals, two off the woodwork and the the Roberts open goal miss.
At the end of the day it is the number of times the ball hits the back of the onion bag that matters. However on yesterday’s showing that wee bit of luck in a cup tie went T’Rangers way.
Once teams got to grips with what T’Rangers were throwing at them most of the teams in the upper half of the Championship have put in a good showing in the latter half of the season with Falkirk winning, Raith getting a draw and others loosing by the odd goal.
For next season’s league, teams will be harder to break down and able to play out the 90 mins unlike some of the Championship clubs.
Warburton is to be congratulated for putting out a team capable of playing a bit of football but the stats show him he most probably needs another decent striker in there to up the number of pops at goal per game.
The club will, rightly, be on a high but still lots of work to be done.
upthehoopsApril 18, 2016 at 07:11 8 0 i Rate This
WOODSTEINAPRIL 17, 2016 at 23:11 upthehoopsApril 17, 2016 at 20:28 This might help,http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.htmlParagraph 6) =======================
Yeah, I read that earlier Woodstein. What I’d like to see is evidence that the club accounts have to be submitted to UEFA. If it’s just a case of the SFA saying ‘we’ve checked, and it’s fine’ then I fear history will repeat itself. It seems clear given Rangers published accounts they don’t qualify for a licence. The media should be all over this now, as they most certainly would be if it was any other club. The fact it is them who keep talking about Rangers playing in Europe tells us much though. Sadly, we will be able to talk about it on here and elsewhere online as much as we like, but if the mainstream don’t mention it then it’s a free run.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Yes the Sevco Fix Arrangers may well turn a blind eye again and tell Uefa, “nothing to see here”, however should the new club’s first sortie into Europe result in a win in their first qualifying match, I’m sure their opponents may well have more interest in the accounts of the pretendygers. It would be interesting to see what the CAS would make of the licence allocation, (if it got that far).
Celtic’s defeat yesterday can only be attributed to their manager’s lack of ability. Poor selection and tactics and an inability/unwillingness to change things when going wrong, (admit original selection/tactical errors).
Well done to Sevco, a great achievement for a four year old club, however it is hardly a surprise. The team with the second highest income in the land and who have been on a successful run for months, sneak past the team with the largest budget, who have been stumbling from one poor display to another all season. Probably the worst Celtic team I have ever seen, however poor team’s in the past have played with some passion to make up for their inadequacies.
The footballing buck stops with Deila and he should have been shown the door months ago, however the bigger problem lies at the feet of Lawwell and his board. Between them they have dragged this once proud club into the mire. They deserve everything they get. I withdrew my significant, (in my eyes) financial support of the club in 2012, they have now lost my support altogether. In fact as far as I am concerned, Scottish Professional Football no longer exists as a sport. I see it as no different to WWF wrestling.
The suppurating sore on the body of Scottish Football will not go away simply because the new club has managed to put a smile on the faces of dishonest men in football governance and on certain football club boards.
Before people get too carried away with the ‘success’ of the new club and forget its sordid origins in administrative deceit and the desperate insistence by the whole mucky band of “Old Firm” fantasists that somehow normality and integrity have been restored to the Scottish game.
It is useful to remind ourselves of the way the old club cheated, and the origins of the new club.
The Fraudco ‘preliminary hearings’ recommence tomorrow.
throwing a dart here. is it possible that ashley has taken souness under his wing,perhaps paid his tax and a little extra?[the ashley ebt]maybe this has been suggested already.
motor redApril 18, 2016 at 11:13
” is it possible that ashley has taken souness under his wing,perhaps paid his tax and a little extra?[the ashley ebt]maybe this has been suggested already.”
__________
We have seen some pretty far out stuff over the last few years, motor red, so nothing at all would surprise me.
But you’ve just reminded me that Mr McDougall of the DR hasn’t replied to my email of 15th inst, which read as follows:
“Dear Mr McDougall,Was it indeed, as I have heard, you who asked Sounness the reason why he received a payment under the EBT arrangements set up by RFC(IL)?
If it was, may I ask whether it was a planted question, engineered to let Sounness give the appearance of replying honestly and straightforwardly [ but actually putting his foot right in it, with his admission that it was in fact payment for services rendered]?
And, again, if it was you who asked, why did you not follow up even on that point, let alone ask questions about the propriety of the manager of one club accepting payment from another club for ‘scouting’?
Yours [me] ”
thanks you j clark,sometimes wild speculation can deliver other links to create a robust conversation that leads us to a truth,just thought id put it out there. hope you have a good day in court and you will keep us updated. much appreciated.
Thanks JC for returning us all to reality
That’s made me feel a whole lot better
I have sent away a letter today to Mr Lawwell concerning my club’s stance on Res 12. I know that we may not all be privy to what goes on at boardroom level but since 2012 this Res 12 issue has been aired all over social media and the only silence concerning it is the smsm, SFA and all of our clubs. I (sad to say) accept the smsm and the SFA as they are what they are. I will not accept the ongoing silence from my club. If they are active behind the scenes all well and good, if not then why not. It does not make sense for the board not to address this issue as they have shareholders and investors to look after (fans also but IMO we at the moment are not priority) silence is not acceptable.
valentinesclownApril 18, 2016 at 14:30
I have sent away a letter today to Mr Lawwell concerning my club’s stance on Res 12. I know that we may not all be privy to what goes on at boardroom level but since 2012 this Res 12 issue has been aired all over social media and the only silence concerning it is the smsm, SFA and all of our clubs. I (sad to say) accept the smsm and the SFA as they are what they are. I will not accept the ongoing silence from my club. If they are active behind the scenes all well and good, if not then why not. It does not make sense for the board not to address this issue as they have shareholders and investors to look after (fans also but IMO we at the moment are not priority) silence is not acceptable.
—————————————————————————————————————
But surely Dermott D, now that he has all the facts according to Phil, read the riot act with PW at the weekend! PW was likely on the blower to UEFA 1st thing this morning. Or maybe not? I agree all our clubs are complicit in the whole shebang!
I’m guessing that the SMSM must be breathing a collective, huge sigh of relief after yesterday’s result ?
It would seem – to them perhaps
– that ‘normal service’ can be resumed next season, and the last 4 years ‘Rangers’ history can be revised / played down / ignored ?
If that does indeed transpire, and nothing happens wrt e.g. Res.12, LNS, and calls for changes/improvement at the SFA/SPFL – and at the clubs themselves- then IMO, the whole RTC/SFM effort will disappointingly have been in vain.
But, we would then be in a crystal clear position to decide whether or not to continue supporting a sham of a ‘sport’.
StevieBCApril 18, 2016 at 15:12
I’m guessing that the SMSM must be breathing a collective, huge sigh of relief after yesterday’s result ?
It would seem – to them perhaps – that ‘normal service’ can be resumed next season, and the last 4 years ‘Rangers’ history can be revised / played down / ignored ?
If that does indeed transpire, and nothing happens wrt e.g. Res.12, LNS, and calls for changes/improvement at the SFA/SPFL – and at the clubs themselves- then IMO, the whole RTC/SFM effort will disappointingly have been in vain.
But, we would then be in a crystal clear position to decide whether or not to continue supporting a sham of a ‘sport’.
————————————————————————————————————
But sadly not enough people care enough to make a difference. And THEY (all of the above) know that is the case. Most of the fans at all clubs are happy with the “you’re not Rangers any more” or such like chants and the usual “sheep sh@@ging b@@tards” and such like responses. Normal service will be resumed!
bordersdonApril 18, 2016 at 15:56
‘….But sadly not enough people care enough to make a difference…’
_________
As Hercule P might say “Courage, mon brave!”
And as signatories to the Declaration of Arbroath nearly said
” For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought to accept….. the dirty deeds of our Football Administrators and the lying pack of SMSM sports hacks”
Their infamy will long outlive them, and I relish the fact that they know it among themselves.My children,perhaps, and certainly my grandchildren will be saying on hearing of the demise of any one of them ” Oh,him? Was he not one of the cheats who betrayed the notion of Integrtiy in Sport ? May he ephemerally wander as a manifestation of ‘what it’s all about’, ‘the passion, the emotion..’, with their a.ses on fire behind them!
Just seen the supposed, leaked photo of the new CFC top.
It has the logo of a new sponsor ‘Dafabet’ emblazoned on the front.
To drop the promotion of alcohol / Magners – for presumably more money [?] – to now promote gambling is disappointing, IMO.
I know it’s a business, and most clubs just take the cash, [with the rare exception of Barca until relatively recently], but it would be encouraging if my club could have a policy to seek ‘more appropriate’ or relevant logos/sponsors for the hoops tops.
They already have the kit manufacturer’s logo on the top.
And it’s not as though CFC is desperate for the cash ?
Another new club on a journey .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36072514
upthehoopsApril 17, 2016 at 20:28 49 5 i Rate This
I noted on Radio Scotland today on at least three occasions it was mentioned that Rangers could now qualify for Europe. Reading UEFA FFP rules they clearly don’t meet the criteria given the level of their losses. Is there any checks UEFA do or will they simply accept the SFA’s word for it, should they win the cup?
=========================
I would be surprised if UEFA took anything from the SFA at face value.
Apart from that UEFA wish to protect their competition from clubs going belly up during them and so would have to be persuaded that without UEFA income and current levels of spend, there was no danger of administration during the year of the competition or, for example, Ibrox would cease to be a safe arena.
I think there will be a bit of discussion between Mt Florida and Nyon before any case reached UEFA.
Then of course there is the question of whom gets that licence. Rangers IL have overdue tax to settle, TRFC don’t. They cannot be one and the same club without that thorny issue emerging again.
If it comes to giving up the same club myth for the UEFA money Id back the money.
Have a wee look as the turf moves looks like rogic got a beckhamesque pen spot.
http://talkingbaws.com/2016/04/look-away-celtic-fans-hampden-turf-lifts-as-tom-rogic-hits-his-fatal-penalty/?
The UEFA Rules that might apply if TRFC or Hibs win the Scottish Cup.
Article 15 – Special permission
1 If a club qualifies for a UEFA club competition on sporting merit but has not
undergone any licensing process at all or has undergone a licensing process
which is lesser/not equivalent to the one applicable for top division clubs to enter
the UEFA club competitions, because it belongs to a division other than the top
division, the UEFA member association of the club concerned may – on behalf of
such a club – request an extraordinary application of the club licensing system in
accordance with Annex IV.
2 Based on such an extraordinary application, UEFA may grant special permission
to the club to enter the corresponding UEFA club competition subject to the
relevant UEFA club competition regulations. Such an extraordinary application
applies only to the specific club and for the season in question.
ANNEX IV: Extraordinary application of the club licensing system
1. The UEFA administration defines the necessary deadlines and the minimum
criteria for the extraordinary application of the club licensing system as specified
in Article 15(1) and communicates them to the UEFA member associations at the
latest by 31 August of the year preceding the licence season.
2. UEFA member associations must notify the UEFA administration of such
extraordinary application requests in writing and stating the name of the club
concerned by the deadline communicated by the UEFA administration.
3. The UEFA member associations are responsible for submitting the criteria to the
club concerned for the assessment for the extraordinary procedure at national
level. They must also take immediate action with the club concerned to prepare
for the extraordinary procedure.
4. The club concerned must provide the necessary documentary proof to the licensor
that will assess the club against the fixed minimum standards and forward the
following documentation in one of the UEFA official languages to the UEFA
administration by the deadline communicated by the latter:
a) a written request to apply for special permission to enter the corresponding
UEFA club competition;
b) a recommendation by the licensor based on its assessment (including the
dates and names of the persons having assessed the club);
c) all documentary evidence provided by the club and the licensor as requested
by the UEFA administration;
d) any other documents requested by the UEFA administration during the
extraordinary procedure.
5. The UEFA administration bases its decision on the documentation received and
grants special permission to enter the UEFA club competitions if all the set criteria
are fulfilled and if the club ultimately qualifies on sporting merit. The decision will
be communicated to the UEFA member association, which has to forward it to the
club concerned.
6. If such a club is eliminated on sporting merit during this extraordinary procedure,
the UEFA member association concerned has to notify the UEFA administration
immediately, and this procedure is immediately terminated, without further
decision. Such a terminated procedure cannot be restarted at a later stage.
7. Appeals can be lodged against decisions made by the UEFA administration in
writing before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in accordance with the
relevant provisions laid down in the UEFA Statutes
The words in bold are were both the licensor and licensee (if its TRFC) will need to up their game.
Further to my previous post the following is what the SFA will need to consider in terms of Indicators before going to UEFA with any Application.
I leave the finance/negative equity stuff to the experts.
Article 52 – Future financial information
1 The licence applicant must prepare and submit future financial information in order
to demonstrate to the licensor its ability to continue as a going concern until the
end of the licence season if it has breached any of the indicators defined in
paragraph 2 below.
2 If a licence applicant exhibits any of the conditions described by indicator 1 or 2,
it is considered in breach of the indicator:
a) Indicator 1: Going concern
The auditor’s report in respect of the annual or interim financial statements
submitted in accordance with Articles 47 and 48 includes an emphasis of
matter or a qualified opinion/conclusion in respect of going concern.
b) Indicator 2: Negative equity
The annual financial statements (including, where required, the supplementary
information) submitted in accordance with Article 47 disclose a net liabilities
33
position (negative equity) that has deteriorated relative to the comparative
figure contained in the previous year’s annual financial statements, or the
interim financial statements submitted in accordance with Article 48 (including,
where required, the supplementary information) disclose a net liabilities
position (negative equity) that has deteriorated relative to the comparative
figure at the preceding statutory closing date.
3 Future financial information must cover the period commencing immediately after
the later of the statutory closing date of the annual financial statements or, if
applicable, the balance sheet date of the interim financial statements, and it must
cover at least the entire licence season.
4 Future financial information consists of:
a) a budgeted profit and loss account, with comparative figures for the
immediately preceding financial year and interim period (if applicable);
b) a budgeted cash flow, with comparative figures for the immediately preceding
financial year and interim period (if applicable);
c) explanatory notes, including a brief description of each of the significant
assumptions (with reference to the relevant aspects of historic financial and
other information) that have been used to prepare the budgeted profit and loss
account and cash flow statement, as well as of the key risks that may affect
the future financial results.
5 Future financial information must be prepared, as a minimum, on a quarterly basis.
6 Future financial information must be prepared on a consistent basis with the
audited annual financial statements and follow the same accounting policies as
those applied for the preparation of the annual financial statements, except for
accounting policy changes made after the date of the most recent annual financial
statements that are to be reflected in the next annual financial statements – in
which case details must be disclosed.
7 Future financial information must meet the minimum disclosure requirements as
set out in Annex VI. Additional line items or notes must be included if they provide
clarification or if their omission would make the future financial information
misleading.
8 Future financial information with the assumptions upon which they are based must
be approved by management and this must be evidenced by way of a brief
statement and signature on behalf of the executive body of the reporting entity
Auldheid
April 18, 2016 at 20:27
Further to my previous post the following is what the SFA will need to consider in terms of Indicators before going to UEFA with any Application.
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All fine and well auld yin (sorry heid) but why do carts and horses come to mind????
Read Celtic @ReadCelticRonny Deila and Celtic have mutually agreed for the Norwegian to depart at the end of the season. (TV2)
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/key-performance-indictaors/#more-7447
AuldheidApril 18, 2016 at 19:37
AuldheidApril 18, 2016 at 20:27
‘..7. Appeals can be lodged against decisions made by the UEFA administration inwriting before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in accordance with therelevant provisions laid down in the UEFA Statutes’
_______
Thank you for those two posts, Auldheid.
I’ve been trying to find who may have the right of appeal (apart from a club which was refused a license).
Could other clubs in the same league ( not necessarily in contention for a place, but because of basic distrust in the licensor’s ‘recommendations’-perhaps based, say, on past suspicions-, or is the Licensor able to act secretly ( and , God save the mark, lie to UEFA about the licensee’s affairs) in the knowledge that no other club will have a right to see all the documentation and evidence provided, and that they could therefore lie with impunity?
Do we know for sure that original source material is sought directly and independently of the would-be licensee,from, say, tax authorities?
This is the state of distrust engendered in us by the SFA.
Who would now be prepared to accept their sole word that anything they reported to UEFA about the new club’s ‘entitlement’ to a license would be the truth, or any more honestly based than their view that DK and PM are ‘fit and proper’?
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/key-performance-indictaors/#more-7447
—
I hope your daughter is ok , PmcG.
The successes Rangers have had on the field of late have seen SFM numbers down. In fact, and worryingly for the future of SFM, over a third of our monthly subscriptions have been cancelled in the last two months and our daily traffic has reduced by a commensurate 35%.
On the face of it that is a depressing turn of events, that for some people their attention, in a game run by spivs and chancers, is more focused on a wish to observe the discomfort of one club and its fans.
The less depressing aspect of it is that our still healthy 10,000 + visits per day registers a desire amongst people for a clean game in Scotland – and not merely a vehicle for anti-Rangers schadenfreude.
There is, as Tris found out on Twitter the other night, still a readiness amongst fan groups outside of those of Celtic to believe that SFM is – as is often the charge – a ‘thinly veiled Celtic site’. The Celtic fan groups of course think nothing of the kind 🙂
That perception, whilst we know it to be erroneous, is reinforced in the binary domain of Scottish football by the first paragraph above, and that is a challenge for us all. Our contacts with fan groups have yielded very little in the way of a readiness to work together, but we do require a new approach to build a coalition of fans who have a desire to restore sporting integrity to paramountcy in Scottish football.
I am confident that the desire exists. I confess that I have no new ideas how to turn it into an effective force for change other than to continue to reach out to others.
I urge SFM members who are active in fan forums to encourage their fellow fans to take a look at SFM, and to find out for themselves (and not via Twitter hearsay) that we are a broad and genuine coalition.
As an addendum to my comment above, there is less arguing, less shouting and less invective on display on SFM than there is on any one-club fan forum out there.
Our unique and valuable contribution to football fans over the last couple of years has been the success we have had in forcing folk to LISTEN to each other and to see others’ points of view – and on occasion to set partisanship aside.
I don’t know of any fan sites – thinly veiled or otherwise – who have achieved that.
RE TRFC & the possibility of Europa League participation:
I’m sure that the SFA would require any club requiring an application for an ‘extraodinary’ licence to have paid all outstanding dues/fines etc. & be in good standing with the Association?
Incidentally, anecdotal evidence from Motherwell, St. Johnstone & Aberdeen in past years suggests that the very early rounds are a financial drain, rather than a road to riches.
BIG PINKAPRIL 19, 2016 at 08:54
The successes Rangers have had on the field of late have seen SFM numbers down.
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You may of course be correct about your assessment, but I would suggest that failure to act on Res 12 has seen more people desert the game than anything Sevco could ever do. The malaise and general disillusion has steadily been building for some time. At least, for me it has.
Our inability to effect change at our own clubs has been very disheartening, and although some laws of the land may have been broken (that remains to be seen) which may or may not bring about some change for the better, the rubber ears thrown to us by the governing bodies over the breech of their “laws”, has been a right boot in the hawmaws.
For instance, even if it transpires in court that the Pinsent Mason report was a whitewash, and Sevco Scotland were less than honest when obtaining membership, do you think the governing bodies will act upon it?……Honestly?
Nah !……It will be back to Sandy Bryson’s law on that one. In fact it will be the same old, same old, and though our voices may be weak, our feet have a touch more reach.
Sadly by then I think it will be in manageable numbers for the authorities, and real sporting fans, once backs turned, will be offered nothing by way of encouragement to return.
It will be back to the status quo.
Jingso.JimsieApril 19, 2016 at 11:05
RE TRFC & the possibility of Europa League participation:
I’m sure that the SFA would require any club requiring an application for an ‘extraodinary’ licence to have paid all outstanding dues/fines etc. & be in good standing with the Association?
Incidentally, anecdotal evidence from Motherwell, St. Johnstone & Aberdeen in past years suggests that the very early rounds are a financial drain, rather than a road to riches.
——————————————————————————————————-
Certainly no pot of gold there. As I recall we had to go umpteen time zones to be beat by a financially doped team!!
Res 12. My Opinion. Celtic FC are part of a major cover up to let old Rangers play in Europe in the hope that the extra cash could save them. It failed miserably but Celtic FC had been offered something for their acceptance that all was well. What that something was I a have no idea but I believe that this was around the time when Peter Lawell was being brought on board by the SFA. I may be wrong.
So Celtic FC do nothing. Even when the fans group first raised the issue at the AGM Celtic FC wanted them to leave it alone as it was being dealt with in house. However the fans group forced a reaction. Writing a strongly worded letter to the SFA was the start of a stalling tactic. All Celtic FC had to say was that it was all the fault of the SFA for not answering their letters. The SFA then had to do what they do best. Nothing. Do and say Nothing. Then Celtic FC tell the fans group to approach UEFA on their own knowing full well that they will get the same answer as they received when they approached the SFA on their own. Told to bugger off. We only talk to Football Clubs. Celtic FC CANNOT approach UEFA on this as, somewhere along the line they have been complicit in the biggest scandal to hit British Sport. They know that to break ranks now could be disastrous for the club having only been treading water for 4 years awaiting the return of their partners in crime. There seems to have been an agreement made that Celtic FC would in fact stand still for 4 years to allow their new friends to be competitive upon their return. All the better for SFA and Scottish Football so we are told. It makes me sick just to think haw utterly corrupt football is in Scotland with all 42 senior clubs willing to keep the charade going. As I say. Just my opinion.
paddy malarkeyApril 18, 2016 at 18:11 18 0 i Rate This
Another new club on a journey .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36072514
……………………………………………………………….
What a surprise!!!
When the story is about another team, there is no problem with the term “New Club”.
Only you know who has to receive special treatment.
BBC, a pathetic excuse for a once proud institution.
From Barcabhoy on twitter
The Celtic board are coming under fire for “saying nothing” on the issues that are consuming the fans on social media . Looking at it , issue by issue, is it fair to criticise.
Res 12.
My understanding is that the SFA followed their own procedures for awarding the license. Uefa however may, and we don’t know for sure, have been lied to by Rangers when they checked to see whether circumstances had changed.
Circumstances had changed, however UEFA had discretion to ignore that. Rangers though, and given Craig Whyte was in charge it’s highly possible, may have lied to Uefa about the status of the “wee tax case” Given we don’t know whether Uefa ignored the change in status or were lied to by Rangers, the absolute most Celtic could do is ask the SFA to ask Uefa for an answer to that. I believe that has happened .
Now should Celtic make a statement to the effect that they have asked the SFA to ask Uefa ? Well certainly not publicly prior to the semi final. That would have just heightened tensions even more. In my view it would have been irresponsible to do so prior to Sundays game.
To do so now, this week to be precise,would be portrayed by the media as trying to deflect attention away from the defeat. Best in my view to say nothing publicly for at least a few weeks. Hopefully after the League is won it might be possible to put out something, but anyone hoping or expecting Celtic to accuse anyone will be disappointed. Nothing is proven and answers are still required before its possible to make any definitive statement on the club being improperly deprived of anything on this issue
LNS Enquiry
The majority of fans i speak to find this the most serious issue outwith playing matters. The club commented on the verdict in the statement below .
“We note yesterday’s decision that Rangers FC has been found guilty of contravening the SPL rules on disclosure of payments over 11 years between 2000-2011. The scale of this amounts to a deliberate non-disclosure of £47 million in payments to players and staff. We also note the penalty of £250,000 which has been imposed”
That’s corporate speak ( which is necessary as we are a plc) for ” Are you F***ing kidding”
The club further commented
“Like many within Scottish football, including supporters and other observers, we are surprised by the parallel conclusion that no competitive advantage was gained from these arrangements.
However, the implications of this verdict are for the Scottish football authorities to address, since the rules breached were specifically intended to defend ‘sporting integrity”
That’s Corporate speak for ” No way is this decision correct or fair . We expect the SPL to appeal this”
The statement further commented
“Throughout this matter, Celtic has refrained from comment on the affairs of Rangers FC while the various tribunals and commissions went about their work.
We will continue to concentrate on our own affairs, and assure our supporters that at all times we will operate within both the rules of our governing bodies and the law of the land.”
That’s corporate speak for Rangers cheated. Celtic never have and never will.
To those not used to corporate speak, and sadly i’m very used to it, the statements may have seemed light. To those who understand the limitations that plc status incurs and the behaviour required , then the statements were very robust.
I hope and believe that if the Supreme Court reaffirms that Rangers abused the EBT process resulting in deliberately avoiding ( evading in my view) tax , then the club will speak out again.
I recognise there is a case already that LNS was flawed . He was guided towards his ludicrous ” No sporting advantage ” decision , by the DOS case being ignored , and by the SPL legal team . Due to their incredible acceptance of both the SFA Bryson interpretation and the notion that even if the FTT was overturned, which it has been, they wouldn’t seek to use that in future . That should forever lay at Neil Doncaster’s door.
However my view is the Supreme Court confirming the COS verdict means the legal position is final, allowing a strong demand for LNS to be set aside. Thats the time for the club to speak
normanbatesmumfcApril 19, 2016 at 12:59
paddy malarkeyApril 18, 2016 at 18:11 18 0 i Rate This Another new club on a journey .http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36072514……………………………………………………………….
What a surprise!!! When the story is about another team, there is no problem with the term “New Club”.
Only you know who has to receive special treatment.
BBC, a pathetic excuse for a once proud institution.
_________________
I think the important thing here is that the report is by BBC, not BBC Scotland. I doubt very much that BBC Scotland will ever bring up the ‘Parma story’, in any of it’s sports media outlets, but the UK/English (for that is what it is) version won’t miss out on a story steeped in the failure of a foreign club, even if it’s dressed as a ‘feel-good’ come back.
As with all English based media, they won’t miss an opportunity to show how much better the English game is than any other ‘big’ league, especially when they can do so without even mentioning the provider of their bread and butter. They are, in fact, the opposite of the SMSM, except where a ‘Rangers’ is concerned.
There is, of course, every possibility that BBC Scotland do an abridged version of the story, one that includes the words ‘come back’, but omits the words ‘new club’! Watch out for it once the full story has dropped off ‘the radar’ and don’t be surprised if a certain Keith Jackson uses it in one of his puff pieces or flim-flam tweets.
CARFINS FINESTAPRIL 19, 2016 at 12:50
“just my opinion”
Mine Tae .
Big PinkApril 19, 2016 at 08:54 19 5 Rate This
The successes Rangers have had on the field of late have seen SFM numbers down. In fact, and worryingly for the future of SFM, over a third of our monthly subscriptions have been cancelled in the last two months and our daily traffic has reduced by a commensurate 35%.
On the face of it that is a depressing turn of events, that for some people their attention, in a game run by spivs and chancers, is more focused on a wish to observe the discomfort of one club and its fans. The less depressing aspect of it is that our still healthy 10,000 + visits per day registers a desire amongst people for a clean game in Scotland – and not merely a vehicle for anti-Rangers schadenfreude.
There is, as Tris found out on Twitter the other night, still a readiness amongst fan groups outside of those of Celtic to believe that SFM is – as is often the charge – a ‘thinly veiled Celtic site’. The Celtic fan groups of course think nothing of the kind
That perception, whilst we know it to be erroneous, is reinforced in the binary domain of Scottish football by the first paragraph above, and that is a challenge for us all. Our contacts with fan groups have yielded very little in the way of a readiness to work together, but we do require a new approach to build a coalition of fans who have a desire to restore sporting integrity to paramountcy in Scottish football.
I am confident that the desire exists. I confess that I have no new ideas how to turn it into an effective force for change other than to continue to reach out to others.
I urge SFM members who are active in fan forums to encourage their fellow fans to take a look at SFM, and to find out for themselves (and not via Twitter hearsay) that we are a broad and genuine coalition.
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Hi BP,
As perhaps one of the aforementioned absent posters I thought I would reply, hopefully I don’t cause to much consternation within the ranks.
Firstly I’ll defend myself a little and I think I can comfortably say the reduction of my interaction on SFM is not related in any way to discomfort of fans of any club or to footballing success or failure anywhere on the pitch (although as a Dons fan, please excuse me for saying I am fatigued at this point in the season, all things looking to be pretty much over for my side). Whatever sort of poster I was I don’t think I was ever one of those posters who only appeared to revel in others misery.
When the big fix is finally completed at the end of this season and all the media can pretend the last 5 years never happened, we will finally arrive in a destination from which I suspect many fans will feel the need to part from the train of Scottish Football and find a more reliable mode of transport.
Personally speaking I have come to the belief that little is likely to change with our game in my lifetime and I’d simply rather give no further thought to cesspit of Scottish Football until significant changes of some sort occurs.
It’s frustrating, depressing, exasperating and just down right sad how utterly diseased our game has been shown to be while under the sway of the sort of narrow, selfish and arrogant mindsets currently holding all the influence.
To make matters worse for those of us that care (ie the sort of fans who read and post on this site), many of our fellow fans are just unable to raise enough passion for the fight for whatever reasons.
Scottish football is more or less dead to me. I can’t be passionate about a sport that is essentially a sham.
As things stand I will not being putting much in the way of money into the game in any form and I can’t really raise much interest in following much more than my own teams results.
I’ve stopped listening to the Radio shows which are increasingly obsessive, watching the TV coverage which will doubtless fo the same way next year, and stopped subscribing to the Sports channels. I will attend perhaps 1 or 2 games a season at most now and only if friends or family want to attend.
I haven’t quite given up hope of a rescue and I will be keeping an eye on trusted sources of real facts and alternative viewpoints (such as SFM) and I am always standing by ready and willing to rejoin my fellow fans if/when the revolution comes.
I know this isn’t what many will want to hear, but please accept it as an honest “fessing up” from one individual.
Thanks
Matty.
PS – I will still drop by occasionally and I will continue to pay my monthly subscription to the site
PPS – I hope your conclusion that a significant number of people were only interested in glorying over the failure of certain clubs is wrong as I find that a rather sad one – but I suspect some others may simply feel battle fatigue as I do, or have their own reasons.
Following on from Matty @ 13.29 19 April I must confess to feeling fatigued but as an Arab supporter of over 50 years this is possibly the most depressing season I have witnessed – relegation (pretty well assured) , director resignations , rumours of administration swirling about & the deeds to Tannadice subject to a charge held by an octogenarian from Aberdeen but worst of all was watching a team some of whom were obviously not trying which as a supporter I cannot accept . So the season can’t end quickly enough for me .
On the SFM front , we appear to be running out of steam but that could be a temporary thing – the forthcoming fraudco trial , Mash’ request for a judicial review on DCK & the Supreme Court ruling on the EBT appeal (if it happens from BDO) will all provoke renewed interest & vigour for action hopefully . The loss of Clumps’ input is also a downer – what a talented writer he/she is & I wonder where his/her future lies .
All in all it is a bit bleak at the moment but hey , look on the bright side , United won’t be facing The Rangers in a Cup Final next month or playing them in the League next season – every dark cloud has a silver lining !
Naegreetin – I am aware of the rumours circulating about Dundee utd. How much credence do you give them? I had been putting it down to the DFC fans stirring things a little.
Tayred @ 14.57 19 April – there is something obviously going on behind the scenes at Tannadice – rumours of a fall out between Stephen & Justine (Thompson) & her resignation the other day – there is a possibility of the club being sold but all rumours at the moment .
On the financial side I would like to think administration was unlikely given the recent & future income fom transfer dealings but there is no denying a financial charge is lying against the deeds for Tannadice , presumably as a result of a “soft” loan given to United to replace funding via BOS . All in all , a period of upheaval is coming including relegation & all that brings .
BIG PINKAPRIL 19, 2016 at 08:54
The successes Rangers have had on the field of late have seen SFM numbers down. In fact, and worryingly for the future of SFM, over a third of our monthly subscriptions have been cancelled in the last two months and our daily traffic has reduced by a commensurate 35%…
=================
IMO, BP one main impact on the site numbers is the ‘relative calm’ at Ibrox. Until relatively recently there were virtually daily SMSM outputs of TRFC related nonsense – and rabid official statements – so there was much to discuss, and yes the focus was mostly on TRFC as a result.
But recently it seems that there is now some control over the TRFC leaks/outbursts, [aside from the run up to last weekend’s game of course !]
IMO, possibly everyone at the SFA/SPFL/42 senior clubs just want TRFC ‘back’ in the top league next season, to erase the last 4/5 years, and promote the opportunity for “Scottish football to move on” now that the TRFC journey has been completed.
Presumably there will be a PR onslaught to ridicule any supporters who still want answers to mibbees “stop living in the past”, “support Scottish football for a better future”, and other assorted soundbites of p!sh.
Which leaves SFM.
The strategy of trying to develop an independent, fully inclusive Scottish football supporters forum is still very much valid, IMO.
If the objective is to force change, then I think we all understand that it ain’t coming from within Scottish football.
Pressure for change has to come from external sources, and SFM has shown already that it provides a higher quality of debate and information sharing for those fans looking for alternatives to the increasingly obvious / blatant misinformation in the SMSM’s output.
The $64K question, as always, is how to make a bigger impact.
I think BP/Tris etc are doing an excellent job with site content, and trying to engage with clubs and the SMSM directly.
It might be a slow struggle, but I think everyone at the SFA/SPFL/senior clubs is certainly aware of the SFM site by now – and that it is not just a ‘typical’ single club fans’ forum.
“Hampden wasn’t built in a day,” IIRC ?
StevieBC,
Your optimism lights me up 🙂
Seriously though, BP and I have always been of the opinion that SFM had to get smaller, divest itself of folk who only wanted to have a laugh at Rangers and move forward from there. I think BP also came across a bit more pessimistic than he himself feels, certainly how I feel, because the issues themselves have a way of finding their way to the surface – and there are too few media outlets who are prepared to give voice to them.
What is absolutely NOT in dispute here are the matters of fact we have unraveled out of the tangled morass of the RFC story.
What also appears to be indisputable is that despite being presented with those facts (neat and ready for the cut and paste job that tabloid journalists crave), the press refuses to publish or give it any air at all.
In Scottish football we now live in a post-truth era where matters of fact are ignored, matters of morality are mocked and scorned and the convenience meal of PR spin is served up as haute cuisine.
All the noise about SFM being anti-Rangers or partisan yadada is just that – noise and deflection. The case against the SFA is not a partisan one. It is a professional, moral, and possibly even legal one.
The only thing that is a matter of opinion for me is whether or not enough people have the perseverance to last the course. The good news is that we can help to inform opinion, and persuade folk of the worthiness of our campaign.
Maybe I am getting older and more crotchety, but the notion that those disreputable people at the SFA and elsewhere getting away scot-free (get the tax reference?) with the destruction of our sport is just not acceptable. It shouldn’t be acceptable to any of us.
Well, another interesting day in Court 2 of Parliament House ( not, for some reason, the High Court).
Full reporting restrictions still in place, of course, but I think it’s safe to say that no date of Trial was fixed.
One or two smaller matters were discussed and debated, some points agreed, And one abstruse issue of law has been referred elsewhere.
The next preliminary hearing continuation has been arrange for 3rd June,.
I’ve just spent another day at the Court of Session (in the company of JC) for the latest episode in the Fraudco Preliminary Hearing. The proceedings had been switched from the High Court.
I’d love to tell you what went on, but I can’t due to the reporting restrictions, save to say that proceedings are progressing slowly, while the three accused, Whyte, Withey and Grier remain on the indictment.
A further Preliminary Hearing had been scheduled for Friday 3 June, this time in Glasgow’s High Court. Before then there is an associated Appeal Court Hearing that should be heard over 3 days between 11-13 May. Again I can’t say anything about what will be discussed at either hearing.
I think the perception of being bias towards or against one particular club, not that I agree with this, could be mitigated by mixing the content up to shed some light on other issues in Scottish football.
Supporters of every club will have their own range of pertinent issues, some could include:
– More scrutiny of the dealings of CFC, their seemingly inactions on several issues and the apparent widening disconnection between the fans and the board.- More scrutiny on other clubs and how they have colluded or otherwise in the issues over Scottish football governance- A review of DUFC, from previous posts today there seems to be something bubbling underneath the surface- A retrospective analysis of what the Steedman brothers did to Clydebank and the factual status surrounding Airdrieonians- Perhaps an in depth blog into HMFC, and how they have dealt with the devastation left by the Romanov era- An in depth analysis of previous rule breaches and a compare and contrast as to how these were handled and punished by the footballing authorities- A review of the role of the SMSM in Scottish football
The set-up of the site ensures that the main issues surrounding RFC and the malpractice of the authorities wrt governance will always be discussed in each blog as they continue to unfold. This could potentially add some perspective to the recent issues and help further the cause for transparency.
BP. Maybe a lot of people feel like me just now. The journey has ended. I always thought that some form of Football Club/Company would arrive in the top flight of Scottish Football. Every conceivable rule was bent or broken to ensure this happened. However I always clung to the idea and hope that when their journey did in fact end with a triumphant blast there would have been a new landscape for the returning hordes to survey. Completely new SFA and SPFL board personnel, A media who would be happy to tell the truth about why the journey was necessary in the first place, and maybe a support ready to integrate with fans from other teams. Alas these are no longer hopes or desires they are just broken dreams. The new club/company from Ibrox will slot right into the empty space left when Rangers FC died. No one will look neither left nor right. Full steam ahead to Status Quo. Job done every one that matters happy with the result. A year late but happy just the same. Well I hope it all goes well for them. Playing to empty stadia should be their punishment.
JOHN CLARKAPRIL 19, 2016 at 16:39 EASYJAMBOAPRIL 19, 2016 at 16:45
Oh how I long for the lifestyle of you two wealthy courtroom globetrotting men of leisure!
Anyway, I very much look forward to your contributions when these reporting restrictions are one day lifted, whenever that is!
BIG PINKAPRIL 19, 2016 at 08:54
The successes Rangers have had on the field of late have seen SFM numbers down. In fact, and worryingly for the future of SFM, over a third of our monthly subscriptions have been cancelled in the last two months and our daily traffic has reduced by a commensurate 35%.
———————————-
Is it time to distribute,REIVER’S Excellent art work with the scottish football monitor web site on it?
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_X7aVh2s6qcQTA5X0t5b1lwQ0U&usp=sharing
Off topic but BBC have listed which teams English referees support and how often they have officiated at their teams games.
Imagine this being done up here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36075347
upthehoopsApril 19, 2016 at 18:41
‘..Oh how I long for the lifestyle of you two wealthy courtroom globetrotting men of leisure! ‘
_________
I have PMd you, uth.
Being an auld pensioner does have some advantages.
CARFINS FINESTAPRIL 19, 2016 at 18:36 The new club/company from Ibrox will slot right into the empty space left when Rangers FC died. No one will look neither left nor right. Full steam ahead to Status Quo. Job done every one that matters happy with the result. A year late but happy just the same.
==========================================
I’m interested how you imagine that the new club will become a break even business. They overspent £30m to June 2015, predicted losses for this financial year and next. Debts rising and no proper banking facilities in place. So requiring more loans, sale of assets or share issues.
I know that kind of fits in with how the old club did their business. However how does it equate to a viable business moving forward.
In order to survive and prosper you first have to survive.
hello j clark. i know your not supposed to relay anything but was there any reference to the new club being just that, a new club in their description or can you not possibly comment. [wink]
Homunculus
April 19, 2016 at 22:29
I don’t believe for a minute hat they will be a break even business but the money to bankroll them will be found by hook or by crook. Probably the latter with no due diligence from our corrupt governors and compliant media.
Hi Cliffhanger
Thanks for that link. Imagine a Scotland list, why, yes I can. Imagine it on the BBC website or in the SMSM, no I can’t.
The supporters used to be told where the referees came from. That was back in the 80’s. Most of them came from Strathclyde and were lawyers or accountants. I doubt that has changed.
There was one referee from Aberdeen at that time, but he would never referee an Aberdeen game.
Could a list of Scotland’s referees not be produced by the SFM?
10,000 hits a day is a lot of knowledge.
It would pass the time until something else happens.
Are there any referee’s in Scotland that are former players? It would seem a logical progression for players to go on to become referees when they can no longer play at a high level. But I doubt it would happen in Scotland as I’m pretty sure only a small percentage of Scotland’s population have any chance of ever refereeing a high level Scottish football match.
I could me wrong, after all most of my thoughts are based on very little real knowledge.
Sometimes I feel like I’m in a parallel universe.
Last year I watched the first ever contest between Celtic and the new Rangers. For me, at the time, there was an unspoken yet real unease at how that match played out.
Afterwards, I couldn’t shake the feeling that we had been conned. In a first half that Celtic dominated, the 2-0 scoreline gave no real indication of the superiority of the Premiership side. If it had been 5-0 or 6-0, no-one could really have argued that such a score gave anything but a true sense of how the game was progressing.
However, the second half was a completely different affair. Celtic retreated into their own half, didn’t press the ball and allowed the new club to hold (largely ineffectual) possession for long periods. When the ball was retrieved it was promptly hoofed into an opposition half containing no Celtic players.Whether the Celtic the players undertook this new strategy of their own volition or were given those instructions at half time I cannot be sure. What is certain is that that first game was over as any sort of contest at half time. It seemed to me then, that 2-0 was acceptable to both sides. This seemed – true or not – to be a managed result. Predetermined.
A game that was providing a clear and present danger of shattering the illusion that the two clubs were broadly equivalent in stature, just sort of fizzled out.
So imagine my surprise then to watch Sunday’s game and see Celtic adopt the very same tactics that they employed in the second half of the first encounter – but this time from the outset.
With possession largely ceded, the successor club enjoyed two thirds of the play on Sunday. Again, I don’t know if this was a deliberate strategy from the management. Perhaps it was simply a result of players inhibited by the fear of losing.
What I do know is that despite having twice as much possession as their opponents, Rangers2 had just 9 attempts at goals (3 on target) compared to Celtic’s 33 shots (10 on target) over the 120 minutes of play.
I cannot remember ever seeing stats like those. Ever.
Despite Celtic’s best efforts in gifting the majority of possession to their opponents (a tactic not normally employed) the general lack of quality in the Rangers ranks severely limited their opportunities. Had it not been for a deflected shot falling into the path of Miller, the wonder goal from Barrie Mckay and a truly bizarre miss from young Roberts, Celtic would have, in all likelihood, left Hampden with a victory.
What I cannot fathom is why Celtic, if they were truly seeking to achieve the best possible result, attempted to neutralise the game.
As with their first encounter, part of me wonders if it is still important to both clubs that Rangers were not embarrassed on Sunday.
So, am I really thinking that Celtic, for commercial reasons, purposefully adopted a game plan for Sunday’s fixture that would help hide the gulf in class between the clubs? And it backfired?
Five years ago I wouldn’t have even entertained the notion.
HIRSUTEPURSUITAPRIL 20, 2016 at 01:07 So, am I really thinking that Celtic, for commercial reasons, purposefully adopted a game plan for Sunday’s fixture that would help hide the gulf in class between the clubs? And it backfired? Five years ago I wouldn’t have even entertained the notion.
=========================
IMO it was all down to Ronny Deila simply got his tactics wrong, and not for the first time. That is why he will leave Celtic at the end of the season. Good coaches like Peter Houston have caused Rangers all sorts of problems this season with far less resources. The media hype about Rangers since Sunday has been ridiculous. Possession is one thing, meaningful possession is another. With a more clinical touch in front of goal and a bit of luck an out of sorts Celtic would still have won on Sunday. For the media to portray it as some kind of seismic shift is as pathetic as it is unsurprising.
UPTHEHOOPSAPRIL 20, 2016 at 07:18
——————
Even with the tactics employed, in a game where Celtic had three and a half times as many shots as their opponents (with half the possession) , the game could/should have been won fairly comfortably anyway.
I do not think Celtic were sent out to lose on Sunday ; but I do think that there was a deliberate ploy to allow Rangers to retain possession in their own half.
For the most part, the game was played across the Rangers back line and in and out of their midfield. I can’t recall a Rangers corner being played directly into the box.
I hope that Delia is as inept as you think he is. A narrative now exists, that has this Rangers elevated to being Celtic’s main challenger for the title next season.
Commercially, that might be great for sponsorship /TV negotiations; but is it really so?
The fact that I can even consider the possibility that a commercial imperative may have influenced how Sunday’s game was played out is sad.
It is not that I am absolutely convinced that nefarious forces were at work. It is just sad that many consider Celtic to be complicit (esp in relation to Res 12) with much of what has transpired over the past 15 years or so.
If the accusers are correct, is it then such a stretch…?
Hi Nuclear Sheep
I can’t help with the current set of refs but when I was an apprentice in an Aberdeen paper mill we had an ex Grade 1 ref called Ian Bain. When he was reffing he went under the title IK Bain (Bankhead). I guess back in the sixties Bankhead would have been on the outskirts of Aberdeen. He told us that at one game Jimmy Johnstone was moaning that he wasn’t getting enough protection, IK Bain responded by telling him he was making such a fool of the full back that even he felt like kicking him.
I’d like to pick up on BP’s concerns over this site.
I have often written that the web is a haven for those that look for kudos for spouting forth on issues while knowing actions need not be taken. Imagine these same people standing with their pals in the pub and, as the would do here, saying, “Let’s get a pot of paint, nip round to the stadium and paint a slogan on the wall decrying the chairman.” You can’t because they wouldn’t get away with doing that and then, as the rest head out to do the deed, staying behind and having another pint. But they can on the internet. If the forum they subscribe to actually succeeds in its aim, even in a small way, these people will claim some credit for it while in the pub with their pals. Nobody can prove they didn’t deserve it.
They hang around forums that look to be acting on issues only as long as there is hope of a positive outcome. That is the issue here. As time passed we have seen most of the hopes dashed by UEFA, Mike Ashley, the courts, the clubs and Resolution 12. The cyber (in)activists have been fading away. The one plus though is that those that remain are, in the majority, those that are NOT “all mooth an’ nae troosers”. So perhaps there is a positive to be taken out of the decrease in numbers. We can now talk about real action without being lost in a morass of posts of no worth and plenty distraction.
Keep up the good work.
HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 19, 2016 at 22:29
CARFINS FINESTAPRIL 19, 2016 at 23:03
Have long said that all the talk of ‘immediate’ insolvency events where wishful thinking.
There is still a bit to go and ‘loan’ opportunities to be explored before we get to that stage. (The fans will stump up season tickets and hand over the CIC monies, other RRM will be thinking of moving their kid’s inheritance money on the basis of Sunday’s one-off result).
If the circa 8000 Foundation of Hearts members can raise £3.8m in 30 months of operation then T’Rangers fans can certainly make contribute significant sums to their club.
However, due to the ongoing basic running costs involved, I believe we will get to a stage where the money will run out down Ibrox way, especially when it is realized an much bigger push, in terms of the quality of players, is required for domestic and Euro success.
Whether things are resolved through equity swaps or some form of administration then the issue is others, Aberdeen (equity ) Dundee, Livingston, Motherwell, Hearts (Admin, sometimes multiple, Les Hutchison /AnnBudge deals etc) have done the same.
If other clubs can manage to wangle out of financial messes then why not T’Rangers?
Everyone agrees it is far from ideal but maybe it takes some folks a few tries before realizing that sustainability and developing homegrown talent for the future is the way forward for all Scottish Football clubs.
Maybe the hardened T’Rangers fans will need to see their club fail again to realize what it is all about.
The big problem folks have with T’Rangers is that because the authorities bend over backwards to assist the new club, promote the continuity myth and OK a convicted tax dodger after all the shenanigans of the likes of Romanov and Whyte, then fans around Scotland have no trust in what lengths are being taken to ensure the new club survives and that the playing field is still far from level.
Perhaps we could all move on if there really was a bit of honesty, openness, transparency and some reflection on the past deeds of others. Until then I doubt very much will change.
Regardless of where T’Rangers end up in the future we do need to keep the pressure on with regard to seeking the truth about the past.
Maybe the Fraudco trial will throw something into the mix, but I am not holding my breath.
Further to my last post I’d like say that Resolution 12 may become a victim as a result of the Celtic supports own wishes for success.
The possibility of the manager being changed in the close season in a perverse way gives the support hope of a more exciting manager, and hence team, next season. Their hopes will be placed on that rather than some esoteric challenge to the authorities who they believe to be against them. Football club administrators are not stupid people and I believe those at Celtic will see this as a means of killing two birds with one stone. Using the appointment of a new manager in the close season as a wet blanket for the flames of dissent will give them a window in which support for Res12 will be reduced.
Therein lies the weakness of an action that relies on an intermediate body to act. I hope not but believe that we need to have a plan B ready and waiting,
BIG PINKAPRIL 19, 2016 at 08:54 39 8 Rate This
The successes Rangers have had on the field of late have seen SFM numbers down. In fact, and worryingly for the future of SFM, over a third of our monthly subscriptions have been cancelled in the last two months and our daily traffic has reduced by a commensurate 35%.
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BP
I’d echo the comments of others on here that the decline in SFM numbers (fact) may not be an outcome of The Rangers recent success on the field (conjecture). For many if that club have won the Championship with the best team and without the benefit of financial doping (which I hope is true) then fair enough. I think it is at least as likely that there is a sense of fatigue with the continued strategy of the MSM, authorities and clubs to ignore and attempt to marginalise those who have justified ongoing concerns at the governance of our game given the events of 2011 / 2012. The recent torrent of MSM propaganda which would suggest that Scottish football is all about one rivalry with all other clubs just so much blank canvas on which to paint blue and green brush strokes doesn’t really help and indeed ignores and is an insult to the many positive aspects of what many would see as something of a renaissance over the last few years.
If what we have seen over the last four years is a war for the soul of Scottish football, it may be tempting to be concerned with the current position, but we need to take a long term view. Some battles will be won, some not. It may be that Resolution 12 is too technical to galvanise a large number of supporters of all clubs in the way the blatant attempt at re-writing the rules in 2012 so that a form of a liquidated club could be in the top flight was. But given that we KNOW the authorities have a bias towards special treatment for those that that they see as the essence of what Scottish football is all about, that we KNOW the MSM including the BBC are lickspittles to that agenda, then the role of those who continue to independently and objectively scrutinise is all the more important. Whatever the outcome on Res 12 there will be other issues. If any club is again intended to benefit from the largess of authorities more concerned with what they consider to be important instead of the fair application of the rules we have to be ready. The MSM are in decline. This is the age of the bampots.
Incidentally rest assured that any decline in season ticket renewal at Celtic will be put down to the fans voting on the future of Deila by the MSM. Of course that could be true. But I’d be astonished if Res 12 gets any mention as a possible factor!
While out and about through Edinburgh and the Borders with the posters and hand-outs the other day It struck me that we had one other place to spread the word. On the buses and trains. The hand out cards left behind on the seat could get to a lot of people. I watched as people sat down at seats where I had put the cards picked them up, read them and then put them back. Nobody pocketed them or screwed them up and threw them away. So one card could be read by a dozen or two before the bus cleaners disposed of them.
The cards are, at present, not worded correctly for this use so I shall try to get the work done to change them over the next few hours and put them up for download when they are done here -.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_X7aVh2s6qcQTA5X0t5b1lwQ0U
looks like the betting on who will replace RD will hot up as he’s announced his departure at the end of the season.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36091138
Glad Celtic have released a statement regarding Ronny Deilas future – wasn’t doing anybody any good keeping quiet when everyone knew the writing was on the wall.
Wish him the best of luck, nice guy but never managed to overcome scepticism from his own support and made some dubious tactical decisions when setting up his team especially in Europe.
Wonder what will become of the backroom team?
REIVER
APRIL 20, 2016 at 10:10
While out and about through Edinburgh and the Borders with the posters and hand-outs the other day It struck me that we had one other place to spread the word. On the buses and trains. The hand out cards left behind on the seat could get to a lot of people.
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I believe you need specific permission (dates/services/purpose) from train operating companies to do what’s called seat drops or you may come to the attention of British Transport Police.
Jingso
Fair enough and I wouldn’t want to have anyone get into trouble but successful battles against the “establishment” have always only come about be civil disobedience. These have been in the form of rioting, mass violence or even throwing yourself in front of the head of states horse. Having a piece of card “fall” out of a pocket whilst you travel by bus or train hardly matches these other illegal actions. That the card was there before you sat down would be difficult to prove unless you were taken in for fingerprinting. I’m sure the PC’s sergeant would love for that to happen.
You are right though and I suggest anyone wishing to take part keeps your point in mind before they put themselves in a position that could result in a criminal record.
The reason that it struck me that this would be a good tactic is that I realise that a large percentage on this blog have bus passes. That also means that many are already retired so their job opportunities wouldn’t be ruined should they be sent down for dropping card on a train.
TaysiderApril 20, 2016 at 10:10
Incidentally rest assured that any decline in season ticket renewal at Celtic will be put down to the fans voting on the future of Deila by the MSM. Of course that could be true. But I’d be astonished if Res 12 gets any mention as a possible factor!
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I’d be astonished if it was a factor for any significant numbers of fans!
So Deila is going at the end of the season.
Still believe he had something to offer the Scottish game in terms of his approach to the game and overall philosophy about how players should be prepared,conditioned, trained etc but clearly somehow manged to lose his way with regard to team selection, tactics and favoring certain players.
Part of the problem seems to be that the Celtic Manager and indeed the Board, are under constant pressure to be seen to be doing something. To my mind that’s why from time to time you end up with a squad bloated full of midfielders and the likes of Cifci and Cole on the wage book.
The board will have to be very careful who they choose next time round.
WOTTPIAPRIL 20, 2016 at 09:51
HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 19, 2016 at 22:29CARFINS FINESTAPRIL 19, 2016 at 23:03
Have long said that all the talk of ‘immediate’ insolvency events where wishful thinking.
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I’m not sure if you were implying it, however I did not intend to give the impression that I considered an immediate insolvency event likely. I was merely pointing out that this was a loss making business and those losses were predicted to continue.
That does not mean that they cannot sell assets, have a rights / share issue, or obtain further loans. There is absolutely nothing stopping them, so long as people are willing to buy the assets, or shares or to provide the loans.
[Moderated]
Shug, we know you are disappointed, but you really need to consider where you are posting this stuff. I might also advise you to take a breath before posting it anywhere, but that’s your choice. Just not here please.
Tris
Quiet, so I’ll throw my tuppenceworth in . I haven’t seen Sunday’s game, only the highlights and goals , so can’t comment on the team’s displays . However, having seen CFC four times in the flesh through the season, I think their players are spending too much time in the gym . Guys who were built like whippets are now bulked up and out, with a loss of mobility and, in some cases, balance . Some looked as though they were struggling to run properly. Maybe that part of their development is done and they will concentrate on ball skills, but even the Mighty Jags reckon we can get something from games against them, home or away .
After reading Shug’s, erm, analysis, I am seriously considering cancelling my subscription too! Is this what SFM has come to?
Teams beat other teams. Sometimes teams who have more shots on target than their opposition still lose. Sometimes for no apparent reason a team will play poorly. At the start of this year my team went unbeaten for 5 games, then lost 6 in a row and then won 5 in a row. Why is that? Did they deliberately play badly for 6 games to give the opposition a wee hand up the league? Or maybe to make it more exciting for the supporters when they started winning again and shot up into the top 6? Of course not, its just the way football goes.
C’mon lads (and lassies).I assume we have all kicked a ba’ at some time in our lives. Ever thrown a game? Even in a kick about, never mind a semi. I won’t even let my weans win in the garden FFS!.
Imagine how flat Ronnie’s nose would be, moments after he said, “Scott, I need a wee word”. Nah…..I’m not having it.
Not surprised by Deila’s planned departure – but am surprised at the timing.
The decent thing would have been to wrap up the title first – and then say thanks very much and cheerio.
OK, CFC is still 8 points ahead of AFC, and have a much better goal difference.
But there are still 15 points to play for.
Minimal risk perhaps, but shirley you would want to make it mathematically impossible to be overtaken before confirming that the manager is a lame duck ? This isn’t likely to make the players raise their game for the remaining matches under Deila.
Can only think that the CFC ST sales are needing a boost ?
And/or mibbees Desmond wanted someone’s head…and it certainly wasn’t going to be PL’s ?
Despite his faults, Deila should have been allowed to deliver the title with some dignity – before announcing his departure, IMO.
It’s a funny old game…
HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 20, 2016 at 12:27
I am with you with what you say.
I was referring to others who, over the months and indeed years have hoped that an insolvency event on the south side was just around the corner.
Without a bank willing to provide loans and overdrafts, having lost any credibility within the city and Ashley tying up the retail side of things, the cash is going to have to come from RRM.
How much RRM can contribute and for how long depends on their strategy. Additional revenues/loans/investment or whatever they want to call it are out there but I am not sure it is enough to make up for the losses that T’Rangers suffer.
Cuts have to be made get to the point of breaking even, let alone throw money at developing the the team. As someone said elsewhere the other day if the club is so ‘flush’ then why not pay the outstanding fine.
Over the summer new signings will mostly be paid for by a clear out of current high wage earners.
A few key injuries and a couple of poor signings from the wearer of the Magic hat and it could all go horribly wrong.
All credit to him if it works but as we have seen with Deila it doesn’t take much, at any football club, to get folks wanting you out the door.