Look Back to Look Forward

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Look Back to Look Forward

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Everyone on this site has football experiences, views, stories and opinions. Everyone also wants things to be better in the future too. These are bonds that make us who we are and this forum what it is.

I’ll share a few experiences with you now.

I will never forget an impromptu and inspirational 60 minute Q. and A. masterclass by Davie MacParland to a group of relative youngsters at Hampden in 1975 after Scottish Unis had played a friendly with his team.

It was “over the moon Brian” time for me on finding a £5 note in my shoe. This was after I played my first game (unexpectedly) as an S form in the Highland League when my club’s  Aberdeen-based players had been held up by a road incident.

So happy and corrupted was I that I never questioned the widespread practice of giving money to amateur players thereafter so I’m part of the problem.

I also sat next to a young Jim Leyton who came to Butchart to watch himself on a match video after he had let in two goals when we dumped Deveronvale (where he was on loan) out of the Aberdeenshire Cup.  It was the very early days of video and Jim had never seen himself on a tv before.

Every person in the SFM community will have equally diverse and interesting experiences and I’m going to share one more with you now in a little more detail.

In the mid 90s I was given an amazing insight into how Scottish football really worked. In many ways it hasn’t changed much since.

Back then I was part of a small group brought in to help find funding for the upgrade of Tynecastle with the urgent need to construct three new stands. At the time it was a massive requirement for a very financially challenged organisation and at a push there were potentially just about enough pots of monies available from several sources to trigger the investment from the Football Trust and squeak over the line.

The most critical pot was mobilising the fans.

My role was to find a way of getting them to come aboard working with some fine lifetime Hearts fans like the late Alex Kitson so it would all look like a Hearts Community rather than a Mercer initiative.

The then, colourful Hearts majority owner was under constant pressure on other fronts at the time.

The team was not really performing with relatively new manager Jim Jeffries trying to get best out of predecessor Tommy Mclean’s mixed bag of old pros and kids. Making things worse was a growing, highly critical and very vocal consortium of local business people trying to get Mercer out (and themselves in).

I guess you could say in today’s parlance that they were RHM and civil war was very much happening down Gorgie way.

Anyway I can’t now recall all the detail and apologies if my memories have fused a little but a key AGM type meeting for Hearts shareholders at Ingliston was coming up and there was an agenda that looked like it might hurt “The Chairman” as Wallace liked to be called.

Never any flies on him though, he had seen the danger signs and was ready in his own way.

He turned up with his trusted few and simply yet quite brilliantly hijacked the negative agenda and ignored the real issues. He didn’t have a solution for them and couldn’t implement the changes that were in reality needed but quite simply he kicked all the trouble into the long grass.

He did this because he fundamentally understood that most shareholders in the room were just ordinary football fans and wanted nothing more than to be able to talk about football the game, Hearts their club, who they were due to play next and who would be playing.

It was that simple.

Mercer’s message to all that night was “Yes things have been tough but our best possible future is with me”.

He rammed this home by confidently telling the assembled body that Hearts were on the up because we had a new manager who needed time and then blew everyone away by announcing he just signed three amazing new players for them, Giles Rousset, Bruno Pasquale and Hans Eskilsson. After the applause and mayhem died down he had won.

Bruno and Rousset were newsworthy in any Scottish football context one being a French International and the other an ex Juventus tough guy with a EUFA and a couple of Coppa Italia winners medals.

Oh and Eskilsson had amazing hair.

Mercer’s simple bit of insight, showmanship, brinksmanship, call it what you like, led to the survival of his regime.

In a parallel maybe to what the SFA did after their meeting with Craig at the Hotel Du Vin in Glasgow, Mercer had enough time to be ready for the trouble he knew was coming and used his power to ignore the real issues and the detail and move on with a big gamble.

Looking back Wallace got a lot right .

He understood what the majority of ordinary football fans wanted. He’d also learnt that good press was needed and came from feeding the football writers enough tasty exclusives so they’d look after him in a symbiotic relationship, the kind of relationship that remains much the same today.

Even back then in the days when there were less full-colour pages pre-allocated to certain teams to fill and  more able journalists to fill them, the sports pages were about game reports and gossip rather than insight.

The packs of hacks all craved being handed tasty semi-exclusive stories.

It was and ever is thus and in those days the Daily Record was a wee gem with circulation nearer 700K than the 200K-ish today and amazingly all its costs were covered by it’s advertising revenue alone. The proud boast of Endell Laird was the purchase price was pure profit.

With hindsight Wallace may only have postponed the inevitable campaign by the RHM rebels that night at Ingliston. History tells us that the Robinson/Deans rebellion eventually forced their chance. They did have to dig much deeper financially than they ever wanted when their time eventually came, and soon fell out too, but that’s another story.

Wallace’s long grass was just never going to be deep enough to hide the issues he wanted to ignore but to his credit on his watch the stadium was upgraded and the first Scottish Cup since 1956 was paraded to the fans.

Mr. Mercer was an operator who like others before and since could see personal and business value in owning a club.

He cultivated friendly football writers.

He learned that the SFA could be difficult to deal with but much less so when you placed people on their various management boards. That was key to the inner power sanctums and brought you at best influence and at worst early warnings.

He may have been autocratic but knew you needed powerful friends at other clubs too and was always close with David Murray in particular.

So what has this little piece of retrospection and a handful of Finloch football stories got to do with a blog on SFM?

Last week I met Big Pink for the first time over a few coffees.

It was like meeting an old friend in the pub because of all the stuff we’ve lived through and shared over the last 5 or so years.

We talked about stuff and traded stories and opinions on life, football and about SFM what it does and what we are.

We got on to the subject of it’s future and with my business background he asked me to consider a piece for the blog about where the SFM, our fledgling business might go from here.

I maybe agreed too hastily because I have found it challenging to gather and spell out my thoughts.

So this is very much a starting couple of steps to bring in the SFM minds and set up future discussions following this blog and when we meet in Perth in April.

My starting point was to first consider what we are today.

It’s a personal view but to me SFM is a valued medium I come to most days. It’s for when I want to find out or to discuss what is happening.

It is populated with a bunch of people with different backgrounds, skills and insights, is always polite and often very funny.

I’d actually like to see more headline blogs because I enjoy them but our biggest value will always be analysis discussion and good humour.

SFM is fundamentally different to the MSM back pages that still offer us all a mono diet of whatever day-to-day gossip they have been spoon-fed by the Level 9’s of this world or made up and maybe embellished with a random phone call for a quote.

Yes their world is declining and will inevitably see fundamental restructure and change but that change has in reality nothing to do with how they cover and will continue to cover Scottish football.

I’d even posit (to use a wee word I’ve learned from the excellent JJ site I visit sometimes) that the red tops currently see their style of football coverage as a way of slowing their inevitable declines because it delivers the difficult to reach male audience their advertisers crave access to.

As a spectator I’d say the MSM in Scotland mostly seem to suffer from a polarised demographic focus/ bias too but that can never excuse their revisionism or the Spiers and Haggerty episodes we’ve just witnessed.

There is one benefit though. One you maybe hadn’t thought about from all the dreadful MSM football reportage.

The stuff they collectively generate enables all of us to have daily conversations with friends and strangers without actually saying anything about anything.

It gives us our daily top-up for the international language of football minutiae we all converse in every day.

I’ve been able to speak it fluently since I was in my teens. You know the kind of thing – the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the comings and goings and the toings and froings.

The good news, the bad news the made-up news – its all part of being involved with a team or indeed just being a football fan and it’s all conversation for the males of our species.

There are plenty of places I can and do get access to that kind of stuff but SFM isn’t and never has been a source.

I quickly found out that most of my pals don’t want to talk about side letters in the pub on a Friday, or the need for asterisked titles because they are more interested in tomorrow’s match and who will be out of contract at the end of the season.

Without being disrespectful in any way I think they are cut from the same wood as the majority of Mr. Mercer’s Hearts shareholders and if I’m honest part of me is too.

That has given our administrators and clubs too easy a ride.

Beyond the gossip it is fair to say in the last 40 or 50 years football has changed beyond all recognition.

It has become a source of power and money and as we know proverbially and in real life power can corrupt and money can be the root of all-evil.

The stuff happening at FIFA now can be no surprise to any fair-minded fan and I’d be inclined to think that there have been finagled decisions at the top for longer than the current stewardship of Mr. Blatter.

Way longer.

Football-land is a dirty world. A world where all the transparency is for show and real stuff has always been controlled and rewarding for those in the right places.

Closer to home football in Scotland is no different. Power and money have been the origins of our own North of the Border soap opera saga.

Its sometimes been very funny, often been entertaining too but is ultimately tragic and a sad indictment on our country.

Being Scotland nothing is ever as simple as it should be.

We started from a unique kind of place where for over a century we have had to live with an unhealthy, quasi-tribal, two-club duopolistic domination of all things football including the fans, the trophies, the money, the media attention and the administrators controlling our game.

The stark reality of 2016 is our biggest club/economy now finds its real ambitions thwarted, potentially forever, by its location in our restrictive league structure. It has nowhere currently to go and annoyingly the biggest league in the world is just over the border and part of the same country in political terms.

This is a destabilising influence on our game that won’t go away until change allows the next evolution.

Our second biggest economy as we now know had to cheat a little to keep up, post Fergus, and is now making its way back to the top end but with some truly nuclear baggage that I guess we still really only know the half of. Nothing will be simple in its return to what we’re told everyday is its rightful place. It too is a latent destabilising influence awaiting like a grumbling volcano.

What depresses me is the fact that the much-vaunted return of our dysfunctional duopoly is not a formula to recreate  the European success we all took for granted for so long. Those days will never return.

The decline of the Scottish giant that was and is Rangers has dominated our thoughts because it encapsulates so much more than what is wrong with our game.

It is a huge business and establishment fall from grace. A shocking story that has become an elephant in the room to our politicians, our media and many of our fellow fans and is still playing out to deafening silence in some quarters.

In the manic run up to the decline of David Murray’s club we benefitted from insights from the seminal RTC and were bombarded with mass denials from almost everywhere else.

We witnessed the £1 sale to Craig Whyte, the subsequent McCoist European failure, the eventual slide into messy liquidation with tax issues etc.

Our administrators failed us all the way through because they had a different agenda.

Our MSM didn’t want to know partly because it involved more than regurgitating press releases and partly because it was real news for real reporters and not back pages gossip.

Their editors failed us there too, big time.

Now the revisionism and invention of the post-liquidation ephemeral club and company scenarios has been creative to say the least.

I remember Mr. Traynor’s  initial headline and smile how he and others are now wading in a contradictory swamp of their own making. It’s all confusion when it needn’t be.

I only know the kind of stuff that really happened because of this site and its RTC predecessor.

Four or five years on and I think these guys (SFA, SPFL) acted like Wallace Mercer did at Ingliston and ran roughshod over process to “win”.

These well paid admin staff were never off-piste though and our clubs share complicity for their actions to varying degrees.

If I was Regan’s or Doncaster’s devil’s advocate I could just about comprehend that they acted because they feared for their TV revenues. The prospect of being without half of their duopoly ace card and the blue fans scared them and they were mandated by the clubs to maintain the status quo.

I don’t mean all the clubs but if we look at the key committee structures we’ll easily see who were in that inner sanctum at the time. They collectively decided to throw their rulebook out the window and there is no grass long enough to bury their collective actions because truth always outs.

Cast yourself back a few years not long before the St Valentine’s day 2012 news when the push was all for a 10 club league.

I remember Stewart Milne aggressively trying to sell us all a 10-club league because of the TV revenue it delivered (to the few).

At that time there seemed to be a collective “TV Gold Fever” prevailing in the cabal of top club chairmen that makes the real decisions and tells our administrators what to do.
Luckily they failed.

They nearly failed again too in 2012 with their tawdry 5 way agreement  and we all owe a debt of gratitude to the late Turnbull Hutton whose personal integrity, bloody-mindedness and leadership meant a significant change to the premeditated 5 way plan that our top clubs had all signed off.

Since then we’ve all suffered from Armageddon and long may it stay.

SFM has been at the forefront of the last five years. A place where fans from all the clubs come together to question, analyse, give insight, balance, consciousness on all aspects of the meandering road that has been this story so far.

It’s all recorded on our archives somewhere too. We’ve noted and discussed the following and more –

  • Two different signatures from the same club on the 5-way agreement
  • Two different and concurrent memberships of the SFA
  • Players TUPE-ing for free and no lawyers getting rich in trying to get them back
  • Pre-season games being cancelled because of registration and insurance issues
  • The Brechin game coming too soon for the paperwork
  • The entry-round in The Ramsdens Cup for the old club or is it the new club?
  • Record crowds, an even more aggressive songbook
  • Ian Black getting a surprise call-up and a bit of a game to legitimise  The New Rangers with their first cap
  • Millions raised from a gullible city and desperate fans but still several last gasp saves needed to avoid new financial stramashes
  • A charity that pays for holidays in America
  • Quasi-legal stuff with dodgy parameters for questionable enquiries like Nimmo Smith
  • Bryson and his logic that Spartans could and should have used to stay in the cup
  • A “Hopelessly Conflicted Chairman” re-elected and a new one who has fitted in seamlessly
  • Real legal stuff like HMRC appeals, and phrases like side-letters
  • Charlotte Fakes and maybe even Fake Charlotte Fakes
  • Fit and proper persons running our clubs
  • Recorded conversations
  • Onerous contracts
  • Metaphysical concepts of what football clubs in our courts with big bucks being spent on our behalf by our administrators

There is and has been a whole lot more and more to come on the schedules too.

How much of this would I have found on our MSM?

Very little – so thanks to those who go the extra mile for us including John Clark, EasyJambo and others at the courts,  Phil who will never go away, James Doleman and others too including JJ – all playing blinders where the hacks don’t dare.

Finally fast-forward to today.

Most Scottish fans probably know a little about the stuff I’ve touched upon and we’ve debated in depth. Not enough though.

But we have Darryl Broadfoot who is the SFA so we can all sleep rest assured each night.

 

Going forward we must address how we communicate as a medium to spread the word.

Ask yourself – Is what we do more important than knowing Rangers signed Dean Windass’s son from Accrington Stanley on a free because he’s going to play for England one day and stuff like that?

I’d say it is different although both have a place.

Our challenge is to create more impact with ours.

In finishing I have one serious starting proposal to make as a community but first a thank you.

Thank you to all the blog writers and posters because we have collectively created a site where real stuff can be dissected and discussed politely and in a non-partisan way.

Well done to the mods in particular and to our community In general

 

My simple proposal as our first step forward is to start a Wikipedia style library of the facts and keep it on our site.

Dates, happenings, people and all the stuff that will not allow any of it to stay buried forever in the long grass. The kind of detail that is in Auldheid’s amazing and resolute Resolution 12.

Chapter and verse whys and wherefores with dates and names.

 

This will achieve three things.

  • It will create bedrock for us as a trusted media channel whatever we decide to become.
  • It will put stuff factually into the public domain forever.
  • It will contradict any highly paid revisionists trying to change what really happened for their own agendas into the future.

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About the author

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Finloch author

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,978 Comments so far

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redetinPosted on11:25 am - Mar 16, 2016


BBC Scotland sports news quotes an ex-manager saying that a current football manager has been “tipped by some” to be replaced by “the likes of…” some other football managers names.
Now you are right up to date! 21

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BrendasbackPosted on12:06 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Feeling a little lost 02 but hey at least I could get on today  ( must be a woman thing Jean ) 22 

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tony

tonyPosted on1:00 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JJ’s latest
http://johnjamessite.com/2016/03/16/sporting-integrity-for-sale/

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tony

tonyPosted on1:31 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Paul Brennan @CQNI hear Mr Regan is giving a talk on International Football Governance at Edin Uni tomorrow. Some Qs for him below.

any edinburgh posters want a few questions,01

You never know 🙂
BP

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jimmciPosted on2:24 pm - Mar 16, 2016


My son is an avid Plymouth Argyle fan and we do the North of England circuit and have followed them at away games at Carlisle, Morecambe, Tranmere,Fleetwood, Rochdale, York and Accrington Stanley. This week we went down to Stanley and had a proper football day out. Fans mixing, sharing pints and chats happily, minimal security presence. Adult and senior in to game for £25.While in the pub I asked a few of the Stanley fans what they thought of Rangers acquisitions for next season. Their reaction was interesting.Most commented that Crooks and Windass are good players who, with good coaching, could do a turn in Leagues One or Two down south. Young Windass it appears seems to be a glory hunter and forgets he has 10 other team mates but he’s young and this can be coached out of him was the view.I asked if they thought he would suit a Rangers and the consensus was yes. In European competitions – no way, they’re miles away. They then asked me why Scottish football had been so harsh on Rangers relegating them three divisions down.I pointed out the usual; 270 stiffed creditors, the undisputed M£15 or so in unpaid NI and Income Tax and their liquidation.The Accrington fans genuinely thought we were taking the proverbial. But Sky Sports never tells us that, it’s not in the papers, etc, etc. Rangers were liquidated? That really did seem news to the six or seven lads we were talking to.
One guy then wondered aloud if any if this new background began to explain why they didn’t sign the lads in January. Apparently Stanley would have released both for as little as K£50 and the locals were genuinely surprised they had not moved immediately.
Just shows it’s not only the Scottish media who don’t fully inform their readers / viewers.

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killie1962Posted on3:13 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Good morning Jimbo(or afternoon back home)
Although it has not been our best season it was a better fighting performance on Saturday last against the Dandies, I think that Killie will continue our unbeaten record this season against Celtic and snatch an extremely valuable point. If we do this will have been the first time in a long time(very long time)we have went thru a season unbeaten against Celtic.
your in sport
Gaun the Killie

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Ballyargus

BallyargusPosted on3:14 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Jimbo,
Print Screen button – prt scr (usually top right hand side of the keyboard) for the whole screenalt-prt scr – to capture only the item in focus.
paste into app of your choice.
One of the best apps to use is Microsoft Paint. It comes pre-loaded on Windows. Search for it, open it and press Paste. Your captured image will appear. You can then crop if desired and save to a file and then copy it or attach it elsewhere.
Hope this helps.

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Big PinkPosted on3:24 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Apologies to the redoubtable Reiver for failing thus far to make his petition readily available on the site:

Better late than never though …

BP

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on3:31 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Jimmci

My experience today with the Guardian confirms what you say about not just in Scotland do the press hide these things.
I copied my post on here that gave a link to the document sent to UEFA and the petition. I added
“It is just a pity that the Guardian does not see it important enough to respond to our contact or give us column space,”
within 30 minutes it was replaced by this.

“This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our community standards.”

Huhhh??????

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on3:35 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Thanks BP.
The delay was understandable and not a problem. Coping with man flu AND website changes is difficult, I know because I’ve tried it.

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Big PinkPosted on3:44 pm - Mar 16, 2016


New look is temporary, but it got us away from the malfunctions that beset the old one.

If you changed your password in the last few days, you may find you need to do it again. Apologies for that.

Most of the avatars should be still there. If not, you can upload a custom avatar on your profile page.

There is easier and instant access to all the archives, and new functions will be available soon as well.

Any problems, give us a shout.

IT MAY BE A GOOD IDEA TO CLEAR YOUR BROWSER CACHE IF THERE ARE LOGIN PROBLEMS!!

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tangoed

tangoedPosted on3:48 pm - Mar 16, 2016


HIGHFIBREMARCH 16, 2016 at 15:18
 
This will include a new charge on loans paid through disguised remuneration schemeswhich have not been taxed and are still outstanding on 5 April 2019.
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If HMRC lose would’nt this new legislation open the door for them to go after the players as they are the ones who took out the loans?

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billyj1Posted on4:35 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Test1

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killie1962Posted on4:41 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Having read the latest from the excellent and “compulsive reading” on the JJ site (Tony has the link to the article further back on this page) I have finally realized that the game I have known and loved all of my life will never ever be the same to me again. The feelings washing over me are of disillusionment, anger at the sheer arrogance of these men and finally acceptance that the men responsible for this have absolute no interest in the Scottish game, genuine supporters or people who have trusted them, money and “power” were their only aims.They have taken me and my fellow fans for complete mugs and done so with the full backing of the SMSM. The SFA and the SPFL (former and latter versions) must have been indulging in some form of mind altering hallucinatory recreational games to think that they would actually be able to keep this completely swept under the carpet and back from the “masses”. Eventually, like all lies and shams it rose to the surface and it’s now beginning to sink in.In my own naive way(even after all these years) I was hoping that it was all a bad dream and that the game I have loved, supported financially and emotionally would win thru and justice would be done, that it all could somehow be explained away and the very men we are supposed to trust to look after this wonderful game would mount a rally and all would begin to gradually get back to normal. This is almost beyond repair, even if the whole lot are cleared out and a clean set of players in this sad cast brought in will the trust ever be regained and if so how many years will that take? I don’t knock the fact that Regan and Doncaster are English, I think( my opinion only)that they misunderstood the different Scottish psych and culture and that they actually could get away with rubber stamping all this only to find out that all they had done was dig a bigger hole deeper and deeper in keich, that’s when the panic and cover ups began to be taken to a new level. On 41 different club levels all over Scotland every genuine Scottish football fan asked questions and expected answers and maybe some actions from those Chairmen and Boards that were entrusted with THEIR teams. The only real public stance was taken by the late Turnbull Hutton (RIP) and boy look at the abuse he had to take, the SFA keeping a discreet wall of silence along with their impotent stalwarts at the SPFL/SFL. I still feel like someone standing watching a car crash and knowing what’s about to happen but feeling helpless in stop it, the accident should have been stopped a lot farther back up the road!!

I really like to end on a positive because I do not enjoy writing negative posts (though painful as that is I take solace in the fact that my favorite blogger JJ manages to do this on a subject close to his heart but always with a vision that even hurtful truths must be told and revealed) Turnbull Hutton, in my eyes, was the epitome of what trust,honesty and integrity in the Scottish game was all about and in keeping with yesterdays discussions on Player of the Year and Manager of the Year awards I think it’s only fitting and actually Karma to point out that the wee “toun” of Kirkaldy has produced a Manager of the Year in Jimmy Nicholl and also a Player of the Year in Gordon Wallace. Not bad for a so called “diddy”team, I think this is a unique combination, one in the upper and one in the lower tier, but of course I may be wrong. Raith Rovers have a proud history and their fans are a faithful friendly band and I can remember sinking more than a few beers in the old Stark’s Bar before going to watch the Killie.

Yours in Sport
Gaun the Killie

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:50 pm - Mar 16, 2016


The transfer window shut a good while ago – and no ‘conservative’ revenue was generated by TRFC from player sales.
Instead they bought players.

On the face of it, it appears that TRFC should limp along to ST renewal, and the proverbial can is kicked further down the road, with assorted loans / legal fees notwithstanding.

So TRFC is introduced to the top league next season.
But the currently ‘SMSM feted’ TRFC team and manager struggle in the top league.
The bears are not happy, perhaps with mid-table mediocrity.
What to do ?
Buy better quality players TRFC can’t afford, have a financial meltdown…and then the whole saga starts all over again ?!

Optimism / revenge /spite is helping to fill the Ibrox seats ‘on the journey’.
Disappointment when they finally reach their destination might see this level of support start to dwindle.

In a ‘normal’ scenario, you would expect that an ambitious club would be ready and prepared to buy higher quality players to help their team deal with a higher quality of opposition – and also to avoid relegation.
Where’s Dave and his GBP30 Million over-investment ?  14

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jimboPosted on5:20 pm - Mar 16, 2016


All my problems are now gone DG.  I deleted SFM from my favourites and got back in through a browser search then created a new ‘favourite (if that makes sense).  Maybe that cleared the cache?  I have not got a clue. Thanks to the posters who offered their help.  04

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shug

shugPosted on5:40 pm - Mar 16, 2016


This is a real nice cake check it out lol.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35820692

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gunnerbPosted on6:04 pm - Mar 16, 2016


highfibreMarch 16, 2016 at 15:18
———————————-
This is the most important post I have read here for a long time regarding the cheating regime of an erstwhile club. A few sleepless nights ahead for those involved I hope.Good spot highfibre.

Great post too by:
killie1962March 16, 2016 at 16:41
————————————-
The sort of heartfelt missive that really epitomises the Blog.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:59 pm - Mar 16, 2016


the mods can remove if they wish
jimbo, screengrab.
tutorial
press keys down all at once Ctrl, Alt,  Prt Scr.
then click start,programs, paint. a paint screen will pop up.
click edit, click paste, your screengrab will appear. click file, save as a name,to any folder.

good for screen grabs of posts and such.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on7:24 pm - Mar 16, 2016


I’ve had a quick look at the proposed new EBT legislation. Here is a link –
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tackling-disguised-remuneration-avoidance-schemes-overview-of-changes-and-technical-note/technical-note
As I read it, there will be no point in BDO proceeding to the Supreme Court, since HMRC will be able to use the new provisions to reclaim the tax and nic whatever the outcome. I’m assuming that time limits don’t come into it- the document is unclear on that point.
If there is any shortfall on what HMRC get from BDO, then it seems they will now have recourse to the employees-some discomfort for them, I feel. 

Collecting tax on disguised remuneration payments2.Many of the changes result in a charge being levied under Part 7A. In the majority of cases this means that the charge is collected through PAYE from the employer who was party to the avoidance scheme. NICs would also normally be collected from the employer.
3.However, the government will amend the PAYE regulations to allow, where appropriate, for the tax and NICs to be collected from the employee where it cannot reasonably be collected from the employer. A consultation on these amendments will form part of the wider consultation over the summer.

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:05 pm - Mar 16, 2016


NEEPHEIDMARCH 16, 2016 at 19:24
I’ve had a quick look at the proposed new EBT legislation. Here is a link –https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tackling-disguised-remuneration-avoidance-schemes-overview-of-changes-and-technical-note/technical-noteAs I read it, there will be no point in BDO proceeding to the Supreme Court, since HMRC will be able to use the new provisions to reclaim the tax and nic whatever the outcome. I’m assuming that time limits don’t come into it- the document is unclear on that point.If there is any shortfall on what HMRC get from BDO, then it seems they will now have recourse to the employees-some discomfort for them, I feel. 
Collecting tax on disguised remuneration payments2.Many of the changes result in a charge being levied under Part 7A. In the majority of cases this means that the charge is collected through PAYE from the employer who was party to the avoidance scheme. NICs would also normally be collected from the employer.3.However, the government will amend the PAYE regulations to allow, where appropriate, for the tax and NICs to be collected from the employee where it cannot reasonably be collected from the employer. A consultation on these amendments will form part of the wider consultation over the summer.
==================================================
Neeps…I share your sentiments entirely…however, I just hope that all these proposals/details finally make the transition from the Finance Bill (aka the Budget) to a Finance Act, later this year, probably around August/September time.
If it survives the committee stages intact, is passed into law, and the BDO appeal has not yet reached the Supreme Court, then we will indeed have a totally different version of a financial Armageddon…!
I have cancelled my summer holiday(s) in expectation…. 09

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jimboPosted on8:17 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Neepheid I so hope that is the case.  It makes me sick to think of very well paid footballers, managers, CEOs, SFA officials getting away with paying their taxes.  (The same goes for film stars, pop stars etc.)   Doing a job they love but not wanting to give back to society.  Ordinary working class people have no chance of reducing there tax dues. 

They are all dyed in the wool Tories regardless of their backgrounds. 

I hope HMRC go after them with a vengeance.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:34 pm - Mar 16, 2016


NEEPHEID
MARCH 16, 2016 at 19:24

Will they be able to apply the new rules retrospectively, to cover tax avoided via EBT schemes prior to these rules being put in place.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:47 pm - Mar 16, 2016


For screen grabbing

Newer versions of Windows have the “snipping tool”

No Need for Prt Scr or putting the image into a programme.

Simply snip and save. It has options for rectangular images, free from or full page.

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easyJamboPosted on8:51 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Homunculus March 16, 2016 at 20:34 
NEEPHEID  MARCH 16, 2016 at 19:24
Will they be able to apply the new rules retrospectively, to cover tax avoided via EBT schemes prior to these rules being put in place.
==========================
Yes. That does appear to be the intention.

The government is also committed to ensuring that those who have used these schemes in the past aren’t allowed to get away with it. To meet this objective, the government will introduce legislation to put beyond doubt that all loans or debts from a disguised remuneration scheme will be taxed as earnings if they haven’t already been fully taxed or repaid on or before 5 April 2019.

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:52 pm - Mar 16, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMARCH 16, 2016 at 20:34 
NEEPHEIDMARCH 16, 2016 at 19:24
Will they be able to apply the new rules retrospectively, to cover tax avoided via EBT schemes prior to these rules being put in place.
==============================================
Homounculus…normally, retrospective tax is seen as anathema to HMRC’s concept of “fair play” in matters of such controversy…however, methinks that certain actions within the tax mitigation industry (and their illustrious benighted clients)  have irritated HMRC to the extent that they will now be able to say…”it’s ma baw…here are ma rules…if ye dinnae like it….”

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on9:08 pm - Mar 16, 2016


With this latest potential tax legal development, maybe there could be a few high profile, ‘planned’ personal bankruptcies in the future ?

UK resident EBT recipients might want to offshore and/or transfer their assets to e.g. a blind trust, or even to their wife, [that could be risky though 😉 ]

But I’m quite sure that nothing is going to happen quickly though…

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on9:17 pm - Mar 16, 2016


EASYJAMBO
MARCH 16, 2016 at 20:51

ESSEXBEANCOUNTER
MARCH 16, 2016 at 20:52

============================================

Thanks, that makes sense, however I would be a bit concerned that it doesn’t change much. It would presumably still be open to appeal through the Tribunals and Courts.

It’s one thing enacting legislation it’s another getting the court to set precedent. However if what you say is what the legislators clearly intend, then the Court would really have to accept it, unless there was other legislation it fell foul of, for example Human Rights.

The Court is there to see that the law is enforced properly, not to decide whether it should be there or not.

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John ClarkPosted on9:19 pm - Mar 16, 2016


tonyMarch 16, 2016 at 13:31
‘…Paul Brennan @CQNI hear Mr Regan is giving a talk on International Football Governance at Edin Uni tomorrow. ‘
__________
It was today, actually, Tony.
I attended, and hope to be able to post a brief report in a wee while.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on9:40 pm - Mar 16, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMARCH 16, 2016 at 20:34  
Will they be able to apply the new rules retrospectively, to cover tax avoided via EBT schemes prior to these rules being put in place.
==================
The best answer I can find to that is the following example taken from the document I posted earlier. This example seems pretty close to the arrangements for the Rangers EBT recipients. They clearly intend to collect on schemes more than 6 years old.

Example 5
An employer ‘B’ directly placed £200,000 into an EBT ‘P’ prior to December 2010 in order to remunerate an employee ‘A’. Shortly afterwards P made a loan of £195,000 to A.
If that loan is outstanding on 5 April 2019 the new measure will charge the loan amount of £195,000 to income tax and NICs. The £5,000 not borrowed by A is not subject to the charge but may be caught by Part 7A at a later date.
If A repays the debt to the P before 5 April 2019 there is no charge under the new measure as there is no debt outstanding. However, the £200,000 now held by P may be caught by Part 7A at a later date, for example if it were distributed to A.
There could be an earnings charge on the contribution to P prior to December 2010.

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SmugasPosted on10:01 pm - Mar 16, 2016


OK, so in that case Player, sorry, employee A needs to pay his 195k loan (plus interest I believe) back to his siblings trust fund.  He then needs his sibling to take out a loan against future earnings (his trust fund) and pass it back up the line to his old man.  Sounds like a bit of a paper chase but I don’t see a problem with doing that tbh.  HMRC’s current line of attack; that the moneys should never have been grossed into the trust fund in the first place still seems correct to me.  

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:10 pm - Mar 16, 2016


NEEPHEID
MARCH 16, 2016 at 21:40

It appears they are, thanks for that. They are taking away the whole “loan” nonsense.

It was always the case that employees could take money from these trusts as payments, rather than loans. So long as they paid the tax when they did it. The whole notion of an interest free, never to be repaid, loan was nothing more than an insult to honest taxpayers.

It seems Mr Ogilvie may have to pay back £95,000 to the trust, or pay HMRC the tax and NI due on it. Others may be in an even more onerous position.

Stop my bleeding heart. (Intended)

SMUGAS
MARCH 16, 2016 at 22:01

I think the difference may be who they can chase for the tax. Whilst I totally agree the tax should be due from the point the money is paid into the trust, I have always said that, who is due to pay it. The employer or the employee. Particularly if there are “side letters”.

This would add an extra dimension, they can chased the recipient for it.

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John ClarkPosted on10:15 pm - Mar 16, 2016


As mentioned in my immediately previous post, I was invited to attend Regan’s talk at Edinburgh University.
The following is the full text of an email I sent earlier to one or two interested parties.I have corrected some typos and , of course, I think I  expressed certainly the essence of what was said by me and to me.

” The meeting was attended by well over 60 students( including some Chinese, Italian, German and a stack of females)and some academics,and introduced by Grant Harvey(? a professor, I think).
Regan gave a slickly competent ( and actually quite interesting) ‘powerpoint’ presentation from old Henry’s recommendations through to the the troubles at FIFA and UEFA.He had begun by saying that when he was a student (“like you , except that my day was in the 1980s!”).
I had the first question. I opened by saying that while he may have been a student in the 80s, my first year at uni was in the early ’60s, and I felt like Methuselah. ( Get the audience on your side, or what!). I said I had enjoyed the interesting and informative presentation,I realised that it was delivered in an academic context, but I wanted to relate to practicalities.
I said I had sat listening to him talk about values , transparency and integrity and the FIFA and UEFA governance problems and I wanted to mention that the SFA had problems in its own governance.I said that UEFA had been misled, whether intentionally or through incompetence,about RFC’s state of social taxes indebtedness and as a result that club had been granted a European licence they were not entitled to.
The Grant guy said ‘Oh , there’s a bit of background there, Rangers/Celtic”I put my finger up, told him this wasn’t a Celtic-Rangers matter, and said that I wanted to hear Regan state categorically that RFC was not in debt to HMRC at the deadline date.
Regan said that the matter was complex, and explained to the class ( with a smile)that , as he had mentioned earlier, the West of Scotland threw up particular problems),and that this  wasn’t really the place to discuss it, but he would see me after the meeting.
After the meeting, when only he and I and Harvey were present, ( Harvey said he had seen me before at Hampden , but couldn’t say in what context) I again asked Regan whether he would categorically state as the official SFA position that RFC were not in debt to HMRC at the deadline. He said that the SFA had met the requirements of Art. 66 and that the club had been ‘in negotiation’ with HMRC.I said that , no, in fact the club was actually in debt in respect of social taxes, and the SFA were derelict in duty, intentionally or otherwise.
I said: if I were to provide incontrovertible evidence that the club was actually owing money to HMRC , and the debt collectors had been in, what would you do ? His reply was “Nothing”.
I said I would report that back to my people. He asked ‘and who are your people? People who don’t use their real names?
I said ‘I use my real name, and I have written to UEFA using my real name, so that there would be evidence that at least someone had raised the issue before any artificial deadline.I added that we, who pay our money, are the people.
His reply was “if you’ve made your mind up, and that’s your opinion,there’s no way I’m going to convince you’
I said it was not a matter of opinion but of fact, and it won’t go away.
And that was that.
No great surprise, but at least the satisfaction of speaking face-to-face.”

The business began at 12.30, and I left the building at around 2.30. ( I walked from the St Leonard’s Land building in the Cowgate  to the Turkish barber at Nicholson Square and it was 2.45 when I sat down.Interesting experience: he used a kind of blow-torch on me. I never felt a thing, so maybe I’m fit and proper to become an SFA blazer or a RIFC director?)02

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:27 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15
I have a feeling Mr Regan just got a wake up call straight in the face

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justbecauseyoureparanoidPosted on11:01 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15I have a feeling Mr Regan just got a wake up call straight in the face

Probably so, but while I have no wish to underplay John Clark’s excellent continuing efforts (quite the reverse in fact) I’m quite sure that the effect will have worn off very quickly and our dear leader will sleep soundly tonight, as always. 

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:05 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JOHN CLARK
MARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15

Well done, Sir.

Blow torches don’t work if you keep your cool.

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wottpiPosted on11:08 pm - Mar 16, 2016


John Clark is surely now a national footballing treasure!!
Well played sir.

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Carfins FinestPosted on11:08 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JOHN CLARK MARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15

Excellent once again Mr Clark. They know we know.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on11:08 pm - Mar 16, 2016


Bravo, JC, bravo !

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easyJamboPosted on11:13 pm - Mar 16, 2016


John Clark March 16, 2016 at 22:15
—————————-
Good stuff JC – I’ve posted a copy of your notes on the Jambos Kickback message board.

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on11:15 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JOHN CLARK
MARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15
Wee question.
Why ask Stewart Regan to categorically state the official SFA position?
Stewart Regan is not the SFA.
Darryl Broadfoot is.
They must be getting sick of the sight of you.
And that’ll do for me.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:28 pm - Mar 16, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15

  Well done John. Strange how he could say a date on an official form was a matter of opinion. He’s a slippery sod. It isn’t the first time he has used the “West of Scotland” routine

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tony

tonyPosted on11:30 pm - Mar 16, 2016


john clark 
brilliant mate 04

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HirsutePursuitPosted on12:10 am - Mar 17, 2016


JC, well done once more. 
It makes my blood boil that this is spun as as a West of Scotland issue. Good that you got to look him in the eye though. 
I’m intrigued that Mr Regan felt that the SFA met its obligations under Article 66.
The SFA had no obligation under this Article. The obligation to disclose was Rangers.
Where the SFA’s obligations arose was…

ANNEX IX:Licensor’s assessment procedures for the financial criteria and requirements A. Principle The assessment processes to check compliance with the financial criteria set out in Article 10 and Article 55 comprise specific assessment steps that must be followed by the licensor as set out below.

D. Assessment of overdue payables towards employees and social/tax authorities 1. In respect of the overdue payables towards employees and social/tax authorities, the licensor may decide: a) to assess himself the information submitted by the licence applicant, in which case he must perform the assessment according to paragraph 2 below; or b) to have independent auditors carry out the assessment procedures, in which case he must review the auditor’s report and, in particular, verify that the sample selected by the auditor is satisfactory, and he may carry out any additional assessment he believes necessary, i.e. extend the sample and/or request additional documentary evidence from the licence applicant. 
2. The licensor must assess the information submitted by the licence applicant, in particular the list of employees and other corresponding supporting documents, as detailed below. If the assessment is carried out by an auditor the same steps may be performed by the auditor: a) Obtain the list of employees prepared by management. b) Agree the total payable in the list of employees with the ‘Accounts payable to employees’ amount in the annual or interim financial statements as at 31 December. c) Obtain and inspect a randomly selected sample of employee confirmation letters and compare the information to that contained in the list of employees. d) If, according to the licensor, there is an amount due as at 31 March that refers to payables in respect of contractual and legal obligations towards its employees that arose before the previous 31 December, examine that, by 31 March at the latest: i) an agreement has been reached as per Annex VIII(2 b); or ii) a dispute has arisen as per Annex VIII(2 c or d).
e) Examine a selection of bank statements in support of payments. 
f) If applicable: examine documents, including agreements with the relevant employee(s) and/or correspondence with the competent body, in support of the representations under d(i) and/or d(ii) above. 
3. The licensor must assess all supporting documents in respect of payables to social and tax authorities in respect of contractual and legal obligations towards the licence applicant’s employees. In particular he must perform the following steps: a) Agree the recorded balance of payroll taxes as at 31 December to the payroll records of the club. b) If there is an amount due as at 31 March that arose before the previous 31 December, examine that, by 31 March at the latest: i) an agreement has been reached as per Annex VIII(2 b); or ii) a dispute has arisen as per Annex VIII(2 c or d). c) If applicable: examine documents, including agreements with the tax/social authorities and/or correspondence with the competent body, in support of b(i) and/or b(ii) above.

And

ANNEX VIII: Notion of ‘overdue payables’ 
1. Payables are considered as overdue if they are not paid according to the agreed terms. 2. Payables are not considered as overdue, within the meaning of these regulations, if the licence applicant/licensee (i.e. debtor club) is able to prove by 31 March (in respect of Articles 49 and 50) and by 30 June and 30 September (in respect of Articles 65 and 66) respectively that: a) it has paid the relevant amount in full; or b) it has concluded an agreement which has been accepted in writing by the creditor to extend the deadline for payment beyond the applicable deadline (note: the fact that a creditor may not have requested payment of an amount does not constitute an extension of the deadline); or c) it has brought a legal claim which has been deemed admissible by the competent authority under national law or has opened proceedings with the national or international football authorities or relevant arbitration tribunal contesting liability in relation to the overdue payables; however, if the decision-making bodies (licensor and/or Club Financial Control Panel) consider that such claim has been brought or such proceedings have been opened for the sole purpose of avoiding the applicable deadlines set out in these regulations (i.e. in order to buy time), the relevant amount will still be considered as an overdue payable; or d) it has contested a claim which has been brought or proceedings which have been opened against it by a creditor in respect of overdue payables and is able to demonstrate to the reasonable satisfaction of the relevant decision-making bodies (licensor and/or Club Financial Control Panel) that the claim which has been brought or the proceedings which have been opened are manifestly unfounded.

It is common ground, I think, that the SFA were well aware that HMRC had issued a bill in respect of the DOS EBTs. What Mr Regan appears to be saying is that this bill was in dispute at the relevant date.
If this is so, he should be able to point to the live proceedings brought by Rangers at that date, or how Rangers were able to demonstrate to the licensing committee that HMRCs claim was “manifestly unfounded”.
If Mr Regan cannot provide such evidence, he can provide no defence in the assertion that the SFA, as licensors, chose to simply disregard the overdue amount in dereliction of their duty to “act impartially in the discharge of their duties;”

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Bawsman

BawsmanPosted on12:14 am - Mar 17, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15
====================

Well done JC, you are a star sir.

I have e-mailedl “I am the SFA” and now ‘Stewart’, we have to let them know this is not going away,

Letters and e-mails are fine…..but generally ignored…..getting in their faces like JC has had the gumption (and savvy) to do is a huge thing.
Tick, Tock.

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Mary Kate Danaher

Mary Kate DanaherPosted on12:24 am - Mar 17, 2016


I have never had the courage to post on here before but have read sfm since it started. I just had to say superb to John Clark. I am in awe of his courage and fight facing down the charlatans at the SFA. I am finding their corruption and destruction of Scottish football soul destroying. Unless they are hounded out of office the sport will die a death of a thousands cuts as fans slowly give up.  John Clark and people like him give me hope that this won’t happen.  There is a great line in “Sunset Song” – “they have made a desert and called it peace” which I keep thinking of. If the SFA is not cleared out, there won’t be a game for them to “organise”.  

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on12:41 am - Mar 17, 2016


John ClarkMarch 16, 2016 at 22:15  You are one of the above.

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AuldheidPosted on1:19 am - Mar 17, 2016


HirsutePursuitMarch 17, 2016 at 00:10

The SFA line is that they are only responsible for the granting of a license and at 31st March there was no overdue payable as defined. In fact there was no bill at that point. All covered by Article 50

However by 30 June 2011 the bill had arrived on 20th May 2011, was 10 days overdue by 30 June as the bill asked for payment or an appeal within 30 days. There was no payment and no appeal so it was overdue unless any of the conditions in the Annex applied at 30 June. They didn’t and if they had I’m sure we would have heard by now as Celtic would have been told so back in Dec 2011 when they enquired. The answer then as now refers only to the state of play under Art 50. No mention of Art 66.
Whilst Annex IX spells out what should be done re checking on tax owed it falls down in referring only to requirement at 31st March not 30th June, but Art 66 itself says the licensee must PROVE that at 30 June it has no overdue payables and the monitoring responsibilities of the SFA ask they check the submission for completeness.
Article 54 – Monitoring process 
 1 The monitoring process starts on submission by the licensor of the list of licensing decisions to the UEFA administration and ends at the end of the licence season. 
 2 It consists of the following minimum key steps: 
 a) issuing of the monitoring documentation to the licensor and licensee; 
 b) return of the required completed monitoring documentation by the licensee to the licensor; 
 c) assessment and confirmation of the COMPLETENESS of each licensee’s documents by the licensor; 
 d) submission of the VALIDATED documentation by the licensor to the Club Financial Control Panel; 
 e) assessment of the documentation by the Club Financial Control Panel; 
 f) if appropriate, request for additional information by the Club Financial Control Panel; 
 g) decision by the Club Financial Control Panel as specified in the relevant provisions of the UEFA Organisational Regulations. 
 3 The deadlines for the above monitoring process steps are communicated to the licensors in a timely manner by the UEFA administration.

It seems incongruous that the requirement to check if there was an overdue payable at 31st March were to be any less rigorous at the 30th June and as above states, the CFCB govern the monitoring process but national association are responsible for monitoring. How else could it work? Not likely CFCB would ask clubs questions directly.
In a way it is almost moot what went on then at the SFA in that if it is true that at 30th June 2011 there was an overdue payable then that is still true, so how did it slip by the SFA and CFCB?
We know that Malaga did not get away with the “club were in negotiation line” that Regan gave JC and that is because that is what Malaga FC told the UEFA what they were doing and UEFA said that does not stop you having an overdue payable and started investigation and sanction proceedings.
So how did an overdue payable at 30 June not get picked up? Is the fault with RFC/SFA/UEFA and what steps to correct the fault are being taken?

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on1:29 am - Mar 17, 2016


Mary Kate Danaher
March 17, 2016 at 00:24
 
Top of St Patricks mornin’ to you, and welcome.
JC is no “quiet man” and you should stick around and see.04

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John ClarkPosted on1:52 am - Mar 17, 2016


BawsmanMarch 17, 2016 at 00:14
‘…Letters and e-mails are fine…..but generally ignored…..getting in their faces like JC has had the gumption (and savvy) to do is a huge thing.’
_______
Huge thing? I don’t know.
But at least there are 60- odd undergrads, some ‘masters’ students, and  some lecturers etc , (among them  some European and Chinese ) who heard  one auld geezer ask questions about the ‘values’ and ‘integrity’ of the SFA when the CEO of that very SFA had gone on about the corruption of  FIFA and UEFA.
It is odds on that at least a few will spend a moment or two thinking ‘what was that old geezer on about’. That’s what students do:ask questions.( notice, I did not say ‘that’s what students used to do’: they still do).
And , who knows, some might be prompted to have a wee  look at  how the ‘values’ of the SFA are/aren’t put into effect. There could be a doctoral thesis in there.

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John ClarkPosted on2:06 am - Mar 17, 2016


woodsteinMarch 17, 2016 at 01:29
‘….JC is no “quiet man” and you should stick around and see.’
__________
I can say without a word of a lie that I am personally acquainted with the then boy actor who ran to the pub to tell about ‘the fight’ .
And, saving the wife’s presence, wasn’t there ever a better name than Mary Kate Danaher!02

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upthehoopsPosted on6:19 am - Mar 17, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15
————————————

Fantastic stuff John. As Auldheid went on to point out, Mr Regan does have a case to answer, no matter how much he stuck to the party line in his replies to you. I’m guessing it was the last thing he expected to be confronted with but he has had such an easy ride over this due to a compliant media. Why are the media compliant? I believe it lies in the stance Regan took with you, i.e this is a Celtic v Rangers matter. We know it is far from that and there were implications for other clubs, but is a perfect smokescreen for the SFA given how West of Scotland football politics works, and the part the media play in it. There is sterling evidence out there that the SFA wrongly awarded Rangers a European Licence in 2011 that allowed them to compete in the Champions League qualifiers. Had they not done so, the CL place would have gone to Celtic. In the world of the Scottish media, they simply can’t discuss a story how the SFA wrongly benefited Rangers to the detriment of Celtic. It would open an industrial sized can of worms that an army would struggle to contain. So they line up beside the SFA and sit in silence, hoping their refusal to discuss or print the matter will make it go away. However this is not the 1960’s, this is the age of fast electronic communications open to all, and this matter is not going away, and despite what the SFA and media think it is far wider than a tribal Celtic v Rangers matter.  

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on7:46 am - Mar 17, 2016


Thanks again John.

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jimboPosted on7:47 am - Mar 17, 2016


Great work John Clark.

Apart from the pathetic deflection effort – ‘It’s a West of Scotland thing’ I thought this comment was interesting:
“I said I would report that back to my people. He asked ‘and who are your people? People who don’t use their real names?”

What a snidey remark.  Just shows you the contempt this dinosaur has for modern social media.

Is having a moniker any different from comments by ‘anonymous’ in the comments sections of the MSM?

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on7:58 am - Mar 17, 2016


JC – Thanks for that. We need to keep him “uncomfortable”

I wonder if Regan is using the “People who don’t use their real names” excuse to dump the documentation that he received from me? If he is then he is ignoring the fact that he was given a REAL address, a REAL phone number and a REAL email address by which he could make contact.
Blanking the people with issues to raise only works if those people are the type to eventually give up.

Perhaps it is time to stop acting as individuals and pool our resources and efforts.

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Danish PastryPosted on8:25 am - Mar 17, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15 69 0 Rate This
——-
Morning all? Birdsong and blue skies in North Zealand today. 
John, I posted a response to your meeting with Regan. I was auto-informed it was ‘spam’ and it wiz flushed doon the virtual cludgie 🙂 Don’t have time to re-write again. But, summa summarum – bravo!

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jimboPosted on8:29 am - Mar 17, 2016


Reiver, that’s a good point.  They (The SFA) blank you even when you supply your real name & address.  It would seem that by and large they only want to engage with ‘member clubs’.  There’s an Americanism word that has come into vogue in recent years, you hear it all the time in politics & business etc.   Stakeholders.  It would seem that this hasn’t fully caught on at the SFA.  Shareholders of member clubs, fans of member clubs don’t count.  They obviously don’t Stakehold enough.

Football without fans……..

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naegreetinPosted on9:02 am - Mar 17, 2016


Well done JC – as Corrupt Official said he (Regan) is “a slippery sod” & is not comfortable with a surprise confrontation regarding a subject he would rather not discuss face to face for reasons outlined by Auldheid – arrogance isn’t in it !
Good to hear from North Zealand to-day too .

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incredibleadamspark

incredibleadamsparkPosted on9:06 am - Mar 17, 2016


Welcome Mary Kate. As a big film fan I recognised the name and ‘The Quiet Man’ has a very, very tenuous link to Scottish football. The film is a favourite of Gerry ‘the voice of (a) football’ Mcnee and he would write a book about it called ‘In the Footsteps of the Quiet Man’. I miss Gerry, sort of. Anyone know what he is up to now?
 
https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/gerry-mcnee/1048843/
 
Well done again, JC. Looks like Regans words might come back to haunt him. I’d assume this is the official SFA position (has it been ok’d by Darryl?) on the issue and Auldheids post seems to question this.

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DunderheidPosted on9:58 am - Mar 17, 2016


Jimbo, Reiver, et al: on Stewart Regan’s face-to-face dealings with JC …
I would go further and say that it’s way to the extreme right of the disingenuous-contemptible scale for Mr Regan to attempt to portray the ‘Resolution 12’ issue as a ‘West of Scotland thing’.
Unless he truly is an idiot, he knows damned well that this is much bigger than that. 
He should also realise that he’ll probably be ‘asked to resign’ once it is demonstrated (to the whole world and not just the ‘West of Scotland’) that (a) he was complicit in the 2011 licensing, and (b) he has orchestrated the resulting cover up.

 

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Danish PastryPosted on10:14 am - Mar 17, 2016


JOHN CLARKMARCH 16, 2016 at 22:15 69 0 Rate This
———-
Fascinating encounter John. Interesting, too, that he agreed to meet you afterwards. 
Sadly, it appears not only the authorities, but also certain club chairmen have decided to take the path of least resistance. This corruption won’t end well. It’s just a pity not one newspaper will run the story. As mentioned before, it’s like fitba’s All the President’s Men withoot the good MSM media guys. 
Still, I reckon the SFA are worried. And the campaign to promote the liquidation lie and the same-co narrative is costing certain folks a fortune. They’re all on borrowed time and borrowed money. 

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on10:51 am - Mar 17, 2016


John Clark and Auldheid – PM for you.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:00 am - Mar 17, 2016


JIMBOMARCH 17, 2016 at 07:47 
Great work John Clark.
Apart from the pathetic deflection effort – ‘It’s a West of Scotland thing’ I thought this comment was interesting:“I said I would report that back to my people. He asked ‘and who are your people? People who don’t use their real names?” What a snidey remark.
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  Jimbo, I would go further than say it was a bit snidey, and call it for what it is. A downright lie.! My name and address is included in every letter/email I have sent them. I imagine many others do the same.

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wottpiPosted on11:03 am - Mar 17, 2016


The problem for Mr Regan is that for years now the talk, including from the SFA CEO himself, around football has been about the need for more openness and transparency.

As any of us know there can be genuine cock-ups where bureaucracy is involved. It is also the case that decisions can be taken for genuine reasons and possibly at times when the full facts are not available. Similarly in any organisation, public or private, there can be political levers behind the decisions making process.

However to be open and  transparent you need to be able to demonstrate an audit trail that justifies the decisions made.

Sometimes, with hindsight, the wrong decision may have been made but there are sound reasons for that decision being made at the time.

If no such trial is present then people will all view you as incompetent or simply up to no good.

I know some folks don’t listen to Sportsound these days however I if out and about in the car I tend to tune in.
Outwith the studio discussions there have recently been two interesting interviews with Billy Davis and Malky MacKay, including references to both being targets of dirty tricks campaigns.
Last night  the start of the show had and interview with Les Hutchison in relation to his decision to pass over the reigns at Motherwell. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03mzbdk#play

At 6:45 onwards Richard Wilson asked him how he found his experience of Scottish Football as it was relatively new to him.
As a total outsider his view of the game’s administrators was of interest.

“Frankly I don’t know many businesses that try to alienate their customers quite as much as they try to do.”

The message from Les Hutchison was that he hoped the Motherwell fan ownership would mean more participation and say from fans in the running of the game.

On recent performances Regan and others clearly won’t like that. 

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on11:28 am - Mar 17, 2016


Stewart Regan stated at a meeting in Edinburgh that “the West of Scotland threw up particular problems”.
True dat.
Hampden is in the West of Scotland.

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TheClumpanyPosted on11:48 am - Mar 17, 2016


Good Morning.
My latest blog is posted below in full, as it may be of interest. It is a reaction to John Clark’s excellent account of his encounter with Stewart Regan.
Keep up the good work. And as usual, you can find me at https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/
TC
>>>>
If you only read one thing today (other than this blog…), make it this post on the Scottish Football Monitor by John Clark [link provided]. Mr Clark attended an event at the University of Edinburgh which was graced by the presence of Stewart Regan who was giving a talk on International Football Governance.
Mr Regan is of course the Chief Executive of the Scottish Football Association. And the SFA is one of the privileged few to be a permanent member of the International Football Association Board, which makes the laws of the game around the world.
Yes, Mr Regan not only runs football in Scotland, he also has influence on the way the game is played across the globe. Bear that in mind when you read Mr Clark’s report of the event and his later conversation with Regan about Resolution 12.
Regular readers will be aware that The Clumpany recently wrote to Mr Regan about Resolution 12, and encouraged you to do likewise. Hopefully you will feel extremely motivated to do so by the end of this blog! 
Clearly Mr Clark’s account is his personal recollection and cannot in isolation be taken as a definitive account of what was discussed. In an ideal world Mr Regan would go on the record about all the issues raised by Resolution 12 and put them to bed one way or another.
Nevertheless, bearing in mind the above caveats, Mr Clark’s account is truly extraordinary. Here is the key extract:

“I said I had sat listening to him talk about values , transparency and integrity and the FIFA and UEFA governance problems and I wanted to mention that the SFA had problems in its own governance.I said that UEFA had been misled, whether intentionally or through incompetence,about RFC’s state of social taxes indebtedness and as a result that club had been granted a European licence they were not entitled to.
The Grant guy said ‘Oh , there’s a bit of background there, Rangers/Celtic”I put my finger up, told him this wasn’t a Celtic-Rangers matter, and said that I wanted to hear Regan state categorically that RFC was not in debt to HMRC at the deadline date.
Regan said that the matter was complex, and explained to the class ( with a smile) that , as he had mentioned earlier, the West of Scotland threw up particular problems), and that this wasn’t really the place to discuss it, but he would see me after the meeting.
After the meeting, when only he and I and Harvey were present, (Harvey said he had seen me before at Hampden , but couldn’t say in what context) I again asked Regan whether he would categorically state as the official SFA position that RFC were not in debt to HMRC at the deadline. He said that the SFA had met the requirements of Art. 66 and that the club had been ‘in negotiation’ with HMRC. I said that , no, in fact the club was actually in debt in respect of social taxes, and the SFA were derelict in duty, intentionally or otherwise.
I said: if I were to provide incontrovertible evidence that the club was actually owing money to HMRC , and the debt collectors had been in, what would you do ? His reply was “Nothing”.
I said I would report that back to my people. He asked ‘and who are your people? People who don’t use their real names?
I said ‘I use my real name, and I have written to UEFA using my real name, so that there would be evidence that at least someone had raised the issue before any artificial deadline. I added that we, who pay our money, are the people.
His reply was “if you’ve made your mind up, and that’s your opinion,there’s no way I’m going to convince you’
I said it was not a matter of opinion but of fact, and it won’t go away.
And that was that. No great surprise, but at least the satisfaction of speaking face-to-face.
The business began at 12.30, and I left the building at around 2.30. ( I walked from the St Leonard’s Land building in the Cowgate to the Turkish barber at Nicholson Square and it was 2.45 when I sat down.Interesting experience: he used a kind of blow-torch on me. I never felt a thing, so maybe I’m fit and proper to become an SFA blazer or a RIFC director?)”

There are several points in that account which grate:
* The blithe dismissal of the issue by characterising it as a “West of Scotland”thing. 
* The unwillingness to discuss the issue at hand and the reliance on simpleassertion about what happened when Rangers were granted their UEFA licence for season 2011-12; and
* The use of the “people who don’t use their real names” deflection. This is a particularly spurious argument given the strenuous efforts of those pursuing Resolution 12 to confirm their bona fides to the SFA, and given Mr Clark’s use of his own name when meeting Mr Regan face-to-face!
But the most remarkable part of Mr Clark’s account was Regan’s apparent response when asked what he would do if provided with “incontrovertible evidence that the club was actually owing money to HMRC, and the debt collectors had been in”. 
According to Clark (and as I said above, we only have his word to go on, although I have no reason to disbelieve him), Mr Regan said he would do “Nothing”.
If true, that really is extraordinary and someone in the media should be all over it. Did the Chief Executive of Scottish football’s governing body really suggest that if presented with evidence that one of his members wrongly gained access to club football’s premier (and most lucrative) competition at the expense of another he would do nothing?
Are rules, due process, and level playing fields of no concern to the people running our national sport?
Assuming that Mr Clark’s account is correct, it would be utterly shameful if Celtic FC failed to throw their weight behind Resolution 12. They must accost the SFA directly and pointedly, and if Regan won’t involve UEFA, the club must do it themselves, by writing in the strongest possible terms.
And let us not forget that if Rangers shouldn’t have been awarded a UEFA licence in 2011-12 it wasn’t only Celtic who were victims. An extra Europa League place would have been freed up for another club. Resolution 12 is therefore relevant toany Scottish fan who hopes to see their club play in Europe. Because it raises the crucial question of whether the SFA is an even-handed gatekeeper of the licensing process. 
Resolution 12 should also concern fans of clubs who may never be in contention for a European place. Because it raises the fundamental issue of whether the SFA administers its (and UEFA’s) rules without fear or favour. In short, it questions whether Scottish football is a genuine sport, or a freakish sort of light entertainment. And if that doesn’t trouble you, then I politely suggest that you need to wake up and ‘smell the coffee’.
This particular ethereal entity is appalled by what was apparently said at the University of Edinburgh. If true, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that anyone who pays a single penny into Scottish football prior to fundamental change at Hampden is an absolute mug. 
We all want to follow our club, but if that means subsiding the set-up that brought us the 5-Way Agreement, the Lord Nimmo-Smith Commission, and troubling questions about the awarding of UEFA licences, then it is hard to avoid concluding that we are wasting our time.
I hope you enjoy subsidising our governing bodies. I won’t be joining you.
#KeepOnClumping

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on12:23 pm - Mar 17, 2016


Danish Pastry
March 17, 2016 at 10:14
 
William Mark Felt, Sr “said”  in All The President’s Men  “follow the money”
 
In the book Woodward says “The key was the secret campaign cash, and it should all be traced,”
 
The same applies here.

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Bawsman

BawsmanPosted on12:40 pm - Mar 17, 2016


“People who don’t use their real names”

Interesting.

I had long e-mail conversations with “I am the SFA” (Darryl Broadfoot Director of (non) Communications), using personal, work e-mail (during break periods) and snail mail. All addressed with my name address, phone number.

Darryl has a personality defect in that he gets aggressive when he is cornered with no out quip.

He made a, not so veiled threat, that my company would take a dim view of me using their time to communicate with the SFA. 

That’s a risk you take when dealing with people of no integrity I suppose

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CrownStBhoy

CrownStBhoyPosted on12:47 pm - Mar 17, 2016


“West of Scotland thing”…fair gets ma hackles up!!
Well done JC…again.

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tony

tonyPosted on12:53 pm - Mar 17, 2016


JJ’s latest 
http://johnjamessite.com/2016/03/17/regans-reformation-revisionism/

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ZilchPosted on1:12 pm - Mar 17, 2016


John Clark – outstanding!

If Regan, Ogilvie or any number of the rest of the shower that run Scottish Football had just a fraction of the integrity of Oor John, Oor Game would be in a much better state.

Scottish Football cannot recover until there is a root and branch clear out at the top. This requires Oor Clubs to collectively grow a pair and realise that there is no sport and no product without sporting integrity.

JC – you are a true leader of men and you get my vote for Guardian of the Game – a new position we should campaign for.

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iceman63Posted on1:15 pm - Mar 17, 2016


Fascinating account of a meeting with Stewart Regan from JC – well done that man!
Perhaps the most interesting, and revealing quotations from Mr Regan were,“West of Scotland thing”… “nothing” – both of these responses are pivotal not just to the mind set of Mr Regan, but to the fundamental culture of the SFA.
“West of Scotland thing”… It sees the world through an “Old Firm” prism, and celebrates this division, sectarianism , violence and all as the greatest celebration of Scottish football and its only worthwhile expression – and the SFA is on only one side of that divide!
“nothing” – This is the most revealing aspect of it all. Rangers have gone bankrupt and been dissolved and have  cheated for a decade, and been resurrected in a manner which ripped apart all previous governance. Any and every rule has been broken to support them. If you demand justice, or even an investigation into previous actions, then they will do precisely :”nothing”.

The sad truth is that whatever team you think you support, or even if you are a supporter of the national side, then your support, financial, emotional and cultural has been hijacked by the SFA to being one of support for Rangers, not the dead football club per se – it is, after all, dead- but its ethereal spirit of  racial supremacy, fiscal recklessness and fundamental cheating.

In other words if you support Arbroath, or Hearts, or  Dundee or  even Celtic, your very actions support dishonesty and cheating and subterfuge to maintain the everlasting culture of Rangers.
The only thing to do, genuinely,  if one is to maintain any self respect, is to withdraw from the so called “sport” altogether.

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Prohibby

ProhibbyPosted on1:28 pm - Mar 17, 2016


TheClumpany at 11:48
“….* The use of the “people who don’t use their real names” deflection. This is a particularly spurious argument given the strenuous efforts of those pursuing Resolution 12 to confirm their bona fides to the SFA, and given Mr Clark’s use of his own name when meeting Mr Regan face-to-face!”
……….
Though Regan’s “people who don’t use their real names” comment sounds as though it comes from the same stable, or sty more like, as “who are these people?”, I presumed he was just taking a swipe at “the bampots”.  Maybe he hasn’t yet been introduced to TSFM and its wide range of readers and contributors, or he would be in no doubt that this is a West of Scotland problem only In so far as there is a ‘special’ relationship existing between Hampden and Ibrox.

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Kopweb

KopwebPosted on2:06 pm - Mar 17, 2016


John Clark March 16, 2016 at 22:15
=======================
John, chapeau! I wonder if the professor chap who referred to it as a Rangers/Celtic thing may actually have been Professor Grant Jarvie, Chair of Sport at Moray House? His details are here.

Amongst other things, Prof Jarvie is current Chair of the Sportscotland Trust Company, formerly the Scottish Sports Council which had a standard security over Auchenhowie. Interesting that he thought he had seen you at Hampden. Maybe you were on CCTV… 21

Seriously though, Prof Jarvie is obviously an influential guy in an important position. Would there be any merit in inviting him to do a guest blog on the role of effective football governance in the long-term development of the sport in Scotland?

At the very least, John is right – something like “Farry to Regan: Scottish Football Governance from 1990 to 2016” would make a belter of a doctoral thesis.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:00 pm - Mar 17, 2016


Bravo JC !

In a short period of time you have secured face to face time with both the elusive SFA President and the SFA CEO – and taken the opportunity to pose the awkward questions that most Scottish football paying fans want answered.  
And you have shared that valuable information with grateful Scottish football fans.
That is indeed an achievement in itself for a member of the Internet Bampots : have you ever thought of becoming a ‘proper’ SMSM sports journalist ?  14

The fact that Regan agreed to speak to you afterwards is a positive I suppose.
But based on his answers he should do the decent thing and simply drop the Hampden pretence included in the SFA’s strategic plan “Scotland United: A 2020 Vision”, of becoming

“Respected and Trusted to Lead”. 09

Scottish football fans – including TRFC fans – will never believe that is achievable unless Regan, [& the clubs themselves], change their attitudes to their paying customers – drastically. 

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