Much has been written on this blog, and previously on RangersTaxCase.com regarding the assets and liabilities of the former Rangers football club – however little has been done to look at the rest of the SPL and Scottish Football as a whole. Was it just Rangers making ridiculous ‘asset’ valuations or is there other clubs in real danger of following RFC to the grave?
Before we get started a quick explanation on the figures. They were all taken from the latest accounts as appearing on Duedil.com, so some are from 2010’s figures. I have also ‘tidied’ them up a little so that they are easily understandable, removing things such as minor stock holdings.
The big story in the Rangers case was how over valued their ‘assets’ were, and especially the freehold property. To remind you Rangers Balance sheet in 2010 was as below:
While on paper the net assets look very healthy, we all now know that the 130m of Fixed assets was in fact worth just 5.5m in the real world. If we change that 130m to the real life figure their balance sheet would have looked like this…
So, how do the rest of the SPL compare? This is a list of ‘fixed assets’ for each club as noted in their last accounts.
Predictably, Celtic lead the way, but a quick scout through the notes reveals the freehold properties are valued at 45m. Dundee prop up the table, but with no freehold properties to their name, this is not so surprising. One thing to note is the difference in value of the assets held by Aberdeen and Kilmarnock compared to clubs like Dundee Utd and St.Johnstone – this is important when we look at their balance sheets.
As you can see above, I have broken the balance sheet down into a few categories. We have the fixed assets we just discussed, followed by the cash in bank. Next is the debtors (money owed to the club within the next year) and then the creditors (money the club owes to others within the next year). A crude calculation gives us the Net Current assets or liabilities. A red number means that club owes more money in the next 12 months than they have in the bank, or are owed.
We then move on to long term creditors (money that is owed but not immediately – more than 1 year away) which will constitute loans from banks, or from shareholders. In the case of Hearts, who have the highest amount of long term debt in the SPL, 98% of this debt is owed to the parent company UAB, controlled by Romanov. This debt attracts a further 4.5% interest a year, while UAB also hold a floating charge over the clubs assets.
The final column gives us the Net assets or liabilities, taking into account the fixed assets of the company. As we saw earlier, Rangers had posted Net assets of 70m, only achieved by their ridiculous freehold property valuation. Are Hearts and Aberdeen doing the same? In the case of Hearts they include in their fixed assets 159,000 worth of ‘Memorabilia’… in addition to 15m of freehold property, while Aberdeen state in their accounts that the valuation of Pittodrie is a ‘rebuild’ value rather than a likely realistic sale price.
By declaring such high values on their balance sheets though, it produces a net asset figure, rather than a large liability that, in reality, is the case. Kilmarnock and Hibs to a lesser extent would also see their figures turn red with asset valuations downgraded.
What is heartening to see though, is two clubs with net current assets, in St.Johnstone and Motherwell. Saints were rescued from near bankruptcy in the 80’s by Geoff Brown and have lived within their means ever since. Motherwell likewise have been in financial trouble in recent times, but the club appears to have stabilized and is now living within their means on and off the park.
If another insolvency event hits an SPL club, the MSM will blame it on the demise of Rangers. What can be clearly seen here though is the damage was done years ago to clubs like Hearts, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen – it will be a battle to get back to the kind of financial position that clubs such as St.Johnstone currently enjoy. However, the message that Saints are currently sending out is that its possible to have a competitive team without breaking the bank, as long as others aren’t artificially inflating wage demands.
The accounts I used to get the above figures are downloadable here: I was unable to find for Inverness – if anyone can find please let me know and I can add them to the table. When time permits I will extend this to include SFL clubs as well.
Aberdeen | Celtic | Dundee Utd | Hearts | Hibs | Kilmarnock | Ross County | St.Mirren | St.Johnstone
Conformation from Mark Daley, Lord Hodge is scheduled to consider on Wednesday 31 October the request from the administrators for Rangers Football Club Ltd to exit administration .
czm @czm3
@markdaly2 Are Duff & Phelps at CoS on 31 Oct? Nothing in Court of Session rolls to suggest appearance before Lord Hodge
Mark Daly @markdaly2
@czm3 that’s what his clerk told me last week. Will check tomorrow.
czm @czm3
@markdaly2 @czm3 Any update on Lord Hodge’s schedule for 31 October?
Mark Daly @markdaly2
@czm3 yes it’s on.
Nice numbers Stephen. Absolutley agree that regardless the reason, if another club has ‘difficulties’ our gallant MSM will leap on it as proof that we ‘need’ Rangers. The overinflating of asset values though, is a huge problem for most of the clubs. The almost complete lack of assets an issue for Dundee but that stems back to one of their earlier administrations. It’s going to be an interesting couple of years. I wonder how the SFL clubs look?
do we have any intrepid Court ‘reporters’ in Edinburgh tomorrow? JC?
Due to the football authorities not dealing in a fit and proper and speedy manner with Rangers during the close season, I feel that Dundee have been handicapped in the SPL.
They had virtually no time to prepare a squad with the ability to compete in the higher level and may suffer relegation as a result.
Would the faired option not have been to suspend promotion and relegation for one season, to allow Dundee time to prepare their budget accordingly?
thomthethim says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 12:58
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Totally agree.
And no relegation in 2012-2013 needn’t kill the aspirations of the SFL clubs top make the SPL.
It could and should be the start of expanding the SPL league size.
So if 2 clubs come up from SFL 1 next spring we can have a 14 club interim league in 2013 – 2014 allowing the SFA enough time to come up with a longer term plan.
And for the record Dunfermline should never have been relegated – and deep down our administrators know they are complicit.
I would expect the figures for Celtic to change substantialy over the next season, maybe two. There are likely to be substantial “profits”, which I imagine will be used to a large extent to bring down some of the debt, and in particular the longer term debt. Those profits won’t necessarily be seen in the final accounts, or at least in the net profit part, but the additional income will be there.
TSFM, a bit of a formatting problem, maybe, I don’t know what others see, but on my crummy old laptop, St Johnstone don’t appear in the list of assets per club, the list appears to be chopped off at the bottom.
Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:12
I would expect the figures for Celtic to change substantialy over the next season, maybe two. There are likely to be substantial “profits”, which I imagine will be used to a large extent to bring down some of the debt, and in particular the longer term debt. Those profits won’t necessarily be seen in the final accounts, or at least in the net profit part, but the additional income will be there.
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Re your last sentence can you explain further.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:19
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Think the “Saints” refers to St J. ICT not listed as TSFM couldnt access their accounts
For the second time Charles Green has accused the SPL of stealing money from either him or the company/club/institution/ called The Rangers Football Club. As there has been no immediate and clarifying rebuttal i am a little concerned there may be a minisclue fragment of half truth in this statement.
Can you confirm you are aware of the sky sports interview, the truth behind the accusation, the reason the accusation is allowed to stand unopposed over the SPL and also if you are intending to raise a very serious disciplinary charge through the SFA to stop such malicious comments in future.
I will post this email and any response on The Scottish Football Monitor, as this will ensure that its vast army of readers will be fully informed rather than succulently informed through our journalists.
Thank you.
Sent from Samsung Mobile
Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:12
I would expect the figures for Celtic to change substantialy over the next season, maybe two. There are likely to be substantial “profits”, which I imagine will be used to a large extent to bring down some of the debt, and in particular the longer term debt. Those profits won’t necessarily be seen in the final accounts, or at least in the net profit part, but the additional income will be there.
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Quite aside from the nebulous guesswork at play here, why put “profits” in inverted commas, and why do you think these “profits” won’t be included in the final accounts?
thomthethim says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 12:58
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Due to the football authorities not dealing in a fit and proper and speedy manner with Rangers during the close season, I feel that Dundee have been handicapped in the SPL.
They had virtually no time to prepare a squad with the ability to compete in the higher level and may suffer relegation as a result.
Would the faired option not have been to suspend promotion and relegation for one season, to allow Dundee time to prepare their budget accordingly?
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more importantly, what about Dunfermline? If the SPL had acted quickly then they SHOULD have cancelled relegation last season and DUFC would still be in the SPL
Did they not recently announce they were in serious trouble and needed a major restructuring and possible administration?
with every passing day, the longer RFC (in whatever guise) are allowed to play senior football, the game in this country will die a little. I’m at the point where my only interest is awaiting the outcome of this whole sordid mess and after that, once the scale of what they have done is revealed, i’ll be done with SCOTTISH football – it doesn’t deserve my interest
thomthethim says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 12:58
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titally agree with your dundee scenario. They were not ready for the spl and no doubt had budgeted for another year in the first division, but even though they are a racing cert for relegation this year I believe it has placed them in a better financial position that they would have if they’d stayed in div 1. The extra cash they make this year will make a major difference when they come back up in 2 years time, as I believe they will and when they do I think they’ll be in the spl for a long time.
Neepheid, try going into your control panel, dbl click on display and increase the resolution on screen. That should help somewhat.
sorry, totally.
Steven, the company is Inverness Thistle and Caledonian FC Limited, Company No.SC149117
Away from the current topic a bit – I don’t recall Dundee United being paid the outstanding amount TRFC were due them, though I see Mr Charles says it’s been paid in his latest Talksport interview.
Was it paid? Not casting doubt, genuinely don’t recall. 🙂
Graham Spiers writes a straightforward account of intimidation from Rangers fans in his Herald blog today. It is not ambivalent, he does not sit on the fence and he supports the Alex Thomson piece.There are no Spiers type ‘and yets?’ within it.
It is good that he has written this piece at this time.The next 7 days should ,I think , be very entertaining indeed.
plant & equipment 2.1 million ! eh
memorabilia 159 grand, did Vlad buy an old elvis jacket 🙂
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:51
Beat me to it
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-coming-under-threat-for-criticising-rangers.1351601156
Chuck saysw he BOUGHT, as part of the assets the £3M or so in payments due to RFC PLC (IA)
how much did he pay for them?
breaking everything down, he paid 5.5M for…..
stadium
murray park (sorry, Moses mcneil Cooper park)
the Albion
all the players (less money back if they walked away)
the goodwill
name/brand/history
all monies owed form transfers/UEFA/SFA/SPL monies
be interesting to see what he paid for £3M of monies owed, surely anything less than £3M would mean D&P didn’t do the best for creditors – as I would have paid D&P 2.9M in order to get £3M back
Some Bears want to take this fight (excuse the language;) ) to Thommo…..
http://thedailyranger.wordpress.com/
I hope they do, they are inviting a big hitting journalist to shine a light on the worst of their number!
bogsdollox says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:22
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Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:12
I would expect the figures for Celtic to change substantialy over the next season, maybe two. There are likely to be substantial “profits”, which I imagine will be used to a large extent to bring down some of the debt, and in particular the longer term debt. Those profits won’t necessarily be seen in the final accounts, or at least in the net profit part, but the additional income will be there.
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Re your last sentence can you explain further.
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Nothing untoward, just making the distinction of what will be shown as “net profit” in the accounts.
As discussed before, the conversation between an owner and his bean counter can go along the lines of.
Owner – What is my net profit this year
Bean Counter – What would you like it to be.
Celtic will generate a lot more income via competing in the CL Group stages. They will have higher expenditure as well, but not on the same scale. Therefore the “profit” will in theory be higher. However that does not mean the same figure will appear as net profit in the accounts.
Like I said, just making the distinction. Just because Celtic make say £20m from the CL and spend an extra say £5m because they are in it does not mean that the reported net profit will be up by £15m.
The bottom line is that Celtic will be in an even healthier position by the end of this season. With a reasonable prospect of achieving the same the following season.
Statement On Tax Tribunal
Written by Rangers Football Club
THERE has been growing speculation recently that an announcement from the First Tier Tax tribunal is imminent.
The Club has no knowledge of when such an announcement will be made. However, the Club as it now stands as part of The Rangers Football Club Ltd. has been informed by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs that any decision by the First Tier Tax Tribunal will not affect the operations of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This tax liability which is under consideration by the Tribunal is historic and was a matter for The Rangers Football Club plc (‘oldco’) which is in administration and will be subject to liquidation in due course.
The Rangers Football Club Ltd. is a corporate entity formed following the acquisition in June this year by a consortium led by Charles Green of the business and assets of Rangers, including the Club and its honours.
Unpaid tax liabilities led to the demise of ‘oldco’ and the EBT arrangements were part of ‘oldco’s’ liabilities. As HMRC stated in June when they decided to vote against the proposed oldco CVA, no tax liabilities relating to ‘oldco’ would transfer across to the new company. HMRC have recently reaffirmed this position to the Club’s tax advisers, Deloitte.
The Rangers Football Club Ltd. is a company free of external debt and all liabilities relating to ‘oldco’ are a matter for the administrators.
The impending decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal once again calls into question the validity of the SPL Commission into the use of EBTs. They are clearly a matter for the old company and The Rangers Football Club is trying to rebuild as a great sporting institution
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I think we can take it as read that the FTT decision will be published in the next day or two.
The spin begins……
easyJambo says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:17
Couple of things jump out at me with this,
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“The Rangers Football Club Ltd. is a company free of external debt and all liabilities relating to ‘oldco’ are a matter for the administrators.”
Note that they say “external debt” Interesting choice of words
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“The impending decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal once again calls into question the validity of the SPL Commission into the use of EBTs. They are clearly a matter for the old company and The Rangers Football Club is trying to rebuild as a great sporting institution”
So, if the enquiry relates to the oldco, why bother commenting on it as it is of no concern to Sevco.
The Rangers Football Club Ltd. is a company free of external debt and all liabilities relating to ‘oldco’ are a matter for the administrators.
==============================
Why “external debt”
What exactly is “internal debt” if such a thing exists.
Who do “The Rangers Football Club Ltd” owe money to.
Surely the only answer can be the shareholders, as anything else would be “external debt” one would have thought.
So if I’ve got that right, new company, new history, no tax liability and NO titles.
And the last paragraph is pure CG theatre!
arabest1 says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:09
Some Bears want to take this fight (excuse the language;) ) to Thommo…..
http://thedailyranger.wordpress.com/
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Hmmm. They might just have a point with regard to the Ofcom rules regarding declaring an interest, given that Downfall was featured quite prominently.
Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:13
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bogsdollox says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:22
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Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:12
Like I said, just making the distinction. Just because Celtic make say £20m from the CL and spend an extra say £5m because they are in it does not mean that the reported net profit will be up by £15m.
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Why not? If both income and expenditure are included in the accounts why would the net profit not be the difference between the two?
The impending decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal once again calls into question the validity of the SPL Commission into the use of EBTs. They are clearly a matter for the old company and The Rangers Football Club is trying to rebuild as a great sporting institution
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wasnt one of the conditions of sfa licence being issued to accept any penalties that should be imposed on the old club?
“The impending decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal once again calls into question the validity of the SPL Commission into the use of EBTs. They are clearly a matter for the old company and The Rangers Football Club is trying to rebuild as a great sporting institution”
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Doublespeak. EBTs, yes, lie with the old Club. Side letters and failure to declare, however, are transferable misdemeanours.
Do we really have to go back and quote Lord Nimmo Smith again? He clearly showed that, for the purposes of the SPL enquiry, Rangers = Oldco = Newco.
The opposite of “external debts”? I agree with Agrajag. Must be the shareholders. Or maybe the tealady hasn’t been paid.
If money is owed to shareholders, who put their cash in as a loan, would this be declared in accounts, share prospectuses, etc?
wottpi says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 13:54
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-coming-under-threat-for-criticising-rangers.1351601156
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Interesting to note that the full scale riot in Manchester is referred to as a disturbance. Grow a pair Mr Spiers you’re a father now. What kind of country do you want your child to grow up in?
Or is this just a subtle example of how the intimidation has worked?
You can rest assured however the next time they meet an English team it will not be the friendly Bobby on the beat who will be doing the policing. It will be a full contingent of the mounted and dog branch backing up the riot police armed with CS spray and tasers.
Thanks for the responses re my post on Dundee’s promotion.
Of course, had the SPL/SFA acted accordingly, Dunfermline would still have been in the SPL, thereby negating the Dundee Dilemma.
Maybe so Angus…bring it on, if they want Alex Thompson to probe further into this murky arena, and produce more detailed evidence, I for one would welcome such inquiry.
easyJambo: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:17
(interesting my last post hasn’t shown up yet? linking to the article)
seems The *Rangers may no longer be attempting to ‘float’ the company as a ‘PLC’ as ALL the debt lies with the ‘PLC’
paulsatim says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:37
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The impending decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal once again calls into question the validity of the SPL Commission into the use of EBTs. They are clearly a matter for the old company and The Rangers Football Club is trying to rebuild as a great sporting institution
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wasnt one of the conditions of sfa licence being issued to accept any penalties that should be imposed on the old club?
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No way could taxation liabilities, which are the responsibility of HMRC, be included in any agreement between SFA and Sevco. It’s understood the newco may have agreed to take on some football related debts from oldco which may be clouding the picture a little but never with tax.
Paul McConville has speculated recently of the status of Sevco 5088 and TRFC Ltd. I think he could well be right that Sevco 5088 will end up as the parent company of TRFC Ltd, with the assets owned by Sevco 5088 but leased to TRFC Ltd. TRFC will end up with “internal debt” to Sevco 5088, thus the latest statement may be accurate about “extenal debt”.
Can anyone with a good memory or a store of references, confirm whether or not Green will be given 10% of the proceeds of the share flotation or 10% of the club. If it is the latter, and only half the club is being included in the IPO, then the unwary bears will be contributing approx 20% of their share purchase to Green.
I believe that on his own blog stevensanph has indicated he will update the SPL data on an ongoing basis as more current accounts are published. I think this will be a good help to us monitoring Scottish football in the months ahead and will provide material to be disected here.
At the time of the conditional SFA membership the stance was as follows:-
SFA
“The Scottish Premier League has reserved its position in relation to the on-going investigation into EBTs.”
T’Rangers
“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs. As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”
However as we know both sides want to argue it to suit themselves.
On one hand Mr Charles says his club has never been a member of the SPL but in the next breath he wants the cash for last years second place.”we was robbed”.
SPL chairmen despite what they really wanted to do couldn’t vote T’Rangers back in but still wanted/needed the TV cash so had to bring them into the deal.
That is partially why LNS is there to try and sort it out matters from an independent viewpoint.
Does anyone have any proof that any of the conditions for SFA membership having been met by Sevco?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 15:23
Presumably Campbell Ogilvie, being that full membership was rubber stamped around 3 August
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19120224
easyJambo says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 15:04
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Paul McConville has speculated recently of the status of Sevco 5088 and TRFC Ltd. I think he could well be right that Sevco 5088 will end up as the parent company of TRFC Ltd, with the assets owned by Sevco 5088 but leased to TRFC Ltd. TRFC will end up with “internal debt” to Sevco 5088, thus the latest statement may be accurate about “extenal debt”.
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You mean like Old Rangers FC PLC being debt free, apart from the £20m or so they owed to Rangers Group Ltd (formerly Wavetower) which was an entirely separate company, owned by Liberty Capital, a company owned by Craig Whyte.
This Messiah seems to be going down a very similar route to the previous one. Albeit the previous Messiah is now a pariah.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:40
15 0
You can rest assured however the next time they meet an English team it will not be the friendly Bobby on the beat who will be doing the policing. It will be a full contingent of the mounted and dog branch backing up the riot police armed with CS spray and tasers.
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By the time they next meet an English team, I expect the Bobby on the the beat to have been replaced by RoboCop.
The entire situation is a mess which was totally avoidable had the SFA and SPL and SFL chosen to obey their own rules. At that point the situation was simple. Rangers were bust and dying. No Rangers except a new club could thus emerge.
The Frankenstein creation fronted by Green is a creature made by Scottish Football’s governing bodies for their own purposes ( money basically) They have unleashed a monster beyond their control. Instead of reacting with gratitude to its creator the monster has attacked it at every turn. The makers have fooloishly however tied their own income streams and integrity (completeness) to the continued existence of the monster within its midsts. The monster’s life support is failing quickly and in its pain it is lashing out. As it dies it will bring down all of those who made it.
Eventually the whole sorry fiasco can be used by Ethics professors to show the fact that self interest as much as decency ought to force decision makers to act within the rules and laws of their organisations. Deviations from this always end with corrupt and weakend systems of goivernance at best ( viz UCI in cycling) or total collapse at worst.
These idiots have destroyed the game in Scotland. What was a localised containable Rangers problem has become a possibly intractable and potentially catstrophic problem for all of Scottish Football. I cannot convey my anger and contempt for these individuals enough. Each and every signatory to the 5 way agreement is utterly without moral fibre, courage, honesty or intelligence. With these people in charge, the game deserves to die frankly.
On tomorrows D+P Court appointment with LH
Whether BDO are appointed or another adjournment or whatever decided
• I cannot see any logical persuasive argument that can now defend D+P against the COI charge.
• I cannot see any logical persuasive argument justifying certain cash assets transferred to the newco
• I cannot fathom any circumstance how creditors interests are served by the entire process to date
It’s time for LH to put a stop to this nonsense and we can all have some fair play for a change
twopanda says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 15:56
…..It’s time for LH to put a stop to this nonsense and we can all have some fair play for a change
That is where I get worried, I still think special phrasing and handshakes make a difference in Scottish courts, but maybe the harassment of a QC may change all that!
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:31
TU 2 TD 12
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Sorry folks – stepping away from the party line again, am I? 🙂 I think their case is at least primarily arguable, and I would be interested to see why the TD brigade think it isn’t. No, really.
arabest – quite agree. If they want to stir it up, I think AT may take it personally. Which could provide lots and lots of entertainment. Wha Daur Meddle?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 14:06
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Chuck saysw he BOUGHT, as part of the assets the £3M or so in payments due to RFC PLC (IA)
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NTHM,
Did Green say that? Surely you can’t buy credit due to a bankrupt company but choose to ditch its debt? That money must have been due the oldco creditors? If that was part of the deal from D&P then Green’s real price was only £2.5m. That would be criminally low.
Great post stevensanph, just what a monitoring blog needs. Bravo.
twopanda says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 15:56
…..It’s time for LH to put a stop to this nonsense and we can all have some fair play for a change
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Tomorrow we will finally see what this 3 month plus delay in the liquidation of RFC was REALLY about. Either a little charade to facilitate the transfer of SFA membership to Sevco, and the continuation of senior football at Ibrox, or a serious intervention to allow the court to take appropriate action regarding a conflict of interest. If, tomorrow, Lord Hodge just nods through liquidation, despite the overwhelming evidence of a conflict of interest, and then waves goodbye to D&P as they walk off with over £3m in fees to the detriment of creditors, then I know what my conclusion will be.
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 16:01
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twopanda says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 15:56
…..It’s time for LH to put a stop to this nonsense and we can all have some fair play for a change
That is where I get worried, I still think special phrasing and handshakes make a difference in Scottish courts, but maybe the harassment of a QC may change all that!
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Doesn’t a judge have to reveal any affiliation to a secret society if challenged?
A fantastic piece. Just a note on Hearts, and maybe the others too. The quickest way to find out how shoogly a peg they are hanging off of would be to take a look at the Romanov company that the club owes the money to. Specifically, who that company owes money to. From the accounts, the auditors were not provided with this information and were concerned enough to say so. I have just had a closer look and there appears to be quite a tangle of Lithuanian and UK companies involved (as described in the Directors Report and Notes to the Accounts). Share Issue, you must be joking……
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 16:08
Keep at it, angus – I enjoy your contributions and their sceptical open-mindedness, especially in the face of much groupthink and smugness.
Rangers get a justifiably hard time for not scrutinising their club properly or conducting their argument honestly – we non-Rangers fans should be just as vigilant and honest as we extol Rangers to be.
Mr Green only has one audience in mind, the Rangers support. He will say and do anything he can to increase the likelihood of the supporters buying into his scheme. He knows that there will be some consequences down the line in the way of fines etc, but as far as he is concerned, they are simply part of the cost of doing business. Any long term consequences, will, of course, be someone else’s problem.
Looking for consistency, honesty, dignity in any part of this performance is a waste of energy, it’s only about the money.
Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 16:22
Doesn’t a judge have to reveal any affiliation to a secret society if challenged?
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No-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225532/Judges-longer-declare-freemasons-Straw-says.html
That sort of information might get us thinking naughty, naughty thoughts.
Night Terror says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 16:44
5 1 Rate This
Keep at it, angus – I enjoy your contributions and their sceptical open-mindedness, especially in the face of much groupthink and smugness.
Rangers get a justifiably hard time for not scrutinising their club properly or conducting their argument honestly – we non-Rangers fans should be just as vigilant and honest as we extol Rangers to be.
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Well said Night Terror. The dailyranger thing was self-justifying nit-picking in my eyes, nevertheless angus may have a point.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 16:53
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Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 16:22
Doesn’t a judge have to reveal any affiliation to a secret society if challenged?
============
No-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225532/Judges-longer-declare-freemasons-Straw-says.html
That sort of information might get us thinking naughty, naughty thoughts.
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Thanks neepheid. I was sure I read about a case in Scotland where the judge had to excuse himself on these grounds. Jack Straw eh? Sad excuse for a politician.
So CG has gone from saying “debt free” to “free of external debt”.
Question then for the MSM to put to Chuckles – how much does TRFC owe to shareholders or other company within the Group?
*Silence*
The Deputy Clerk has confirmed to the bold Giovanni that LH is sitting tomorrow at 10 on this matter. Giovanni is always good comedic value…
Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 17:13
Thanks neepheid. I was sure I read about a case in Scotland where the judge had to excuse himself on these grounds. Jack Straw eh? Sad excuse for a politician.
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Yes, I remember that case too, the judge was clearly an honest man who felt he could not, in all conscience, judge the case impartially. Totally down to him as an individual, and all credit to him.
As for Jack Straw, just pass the bucket, please.
http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/of-assets-and-liabilities/comment-page-1/#comment-20469
Does anyone have a link for this statement from T’Rangers/CG wrt the FTT(T) decision. Thanks.
I as a simple man have no faith in the workings of business or the courts. Like many many others who have read this blog and RTC, we have been well and truly educated to the ability of sharp conmen to fleece joe public and flout the law with apparent ease. Perhaps flouting the law is incorrect, perhaps that should be, that they are able to use useless legislation to their benefit and to the detriment of many.
It is for this reason that I will make a very uneducated guess at what LH will decide tomorrow.
That is he will allow the liquidation of RFC to go ahead, he will come to no decision on the COI. He will instruct BDO to investigate it as part of the liquidation.
No faith in LH or BDO to do the right thing, nothing to do with funny handshakes, simply that everyone has let things go too far now.
I noticed today that CG was quoted in one of the daily papers as saying Sevco had paid all euro football debts ,can anyone confirm if Rapid Vienna have been paid their 1.2m due for NJ . Is this just another example of CG pronouncing from his posterior or is it another admission of Sevco being a new club.
It came in a statement about the SFA refusing to give Sevco £275,000 due to Ragers (AI) for their players playing in the euros last season
whullie says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 17:45
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Does anyone have a link for this statement from T’Rangers/CG wrt the FTT(T) decision. Thanks.
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http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2515-statement-on-tax-tribunal
iceman63 says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 15:46
Well said iceman63.
At the risk of repeating myself, the SFA have made a charade out of a mockery out of the sham that is The Rangers debacle. In my humble opinion, Scottish football is now an absolute shambles, at all levels, with no direction and no real optimism for improvement (up the smelly stream without the requisite oars). As a result of a simple failure of leadership and an unwillingness to apply their own rules, which is, in the end, the only reason for their existence, the SFA have accelerated the runaway decline of the entire game in this country, perhaps beyond repair.
The demise of Rangers and the loss of the poisonous ‘Old Firm’ brand presented a wonderful opportunity for the SFA to start to rebuild the tattered image of Scottish football throughout the world. With this ‘reduction in corporate influence’ on their decision-making processes, they could have pushed the necessary changes to ensure a fairer distribution of the game’s wealth and to encourage sustainable grass-roots development with a view to a brighter future. Instead the disgraceful actions and inactions of the so-called ‘governing body’ with regard to old Rangers have only served to exacerbated the inherent financial problems which were already affecting clubs throughout the divisions.
This was also a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to sideline the vile sectarianism and bigotry that blights our nation but which the ‘Old Firm’ brand positively encouraged. If they had allowed the old club to just die peacefully a new 21st Century Rangers would surely have arisen, built in the image of the majority of decent supporters of the old Rangers and without the baggage of the old traditions. Sure crowds at Ibrox would likely have gone down at first as the extreme element of their support drifted away realising that their mind-set was now unwelcome at this new inclusive club. However, in the longer term the New Rangers would have risen back to the top tier by sheer strength of numbers as those decent supporters (especially those with young families) who had stopped following the club during the last decades due to the extremists behaviour started to come back to support their ‘new’ team.
In fact, it appears that the SFA will never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Instead of using this crisis to make necessary changes to the advantage of all clubs, the support and Scottish society as a whole, what we got was tacit approval for the status quo, the same old same old; declining crowds, declining revenues and declining standards and increasing tribalism, increasing antagonism and increasing mistrust. Okay so they brought in Mark Wotte to help encourage and develop the skills of our young people, however his is a long term plan whose imminent impact will be minimal and, barring some major revolution, the game is likely to be all but dead by the time his crop of players come of age.
In any other line of work every individual who had presided over this fiasco would be encouraged, if not persuaded, to do the honourable thing and stand down for the benefit of the whole body. That the head of this organisation is ‘heavily conflicted’ in the death of old Rangers, who by his own admission, is ‘unable to do his job properly’ just defies belief. Which takes me to my main point, Campbell Ogilvie-why are you still here ?
IMO the more CG talks the more the Sevco fans should read between the lines ,if they are seriously going to part with their money to this man and his mystery consortium ,they had better look more closely at him than they did with CW .
They could be excused of falling for the MBB nonsense as they were desperate for their new sugar daddy but after hearing the Barry Whyte he came out with just to appease their fears and deflect any serious questions ,hell mend them if they fall for it again .
They are being asked to part with anything up to £20m to a guy who can’t even seem to remember what he told them two days previous and plucks ludicrous figures out of fresh air that barely stand up to the slightest scrutiny
scapaflow14 says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 17:22
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The Deputy Clerk has confirmed to the bold Giovanni that LH is
sitting tomorrow at 10 on this matter. Giovanni is always good
comedic value…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmmm…
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO @DEVILSADVOKAT 37m
Mr Di Stefano asked me to say to RFC supporters may be good
idea to be outside Court of Sessions peacefully making point
you can all print
Has there been any verifiable sources i.e court websites to confirm LH is sitting tomorrow, someone thought that the absence of any court rolls indicated a private hearing ? Private hearings are the bane of conspiracy theorists all over the world.
We’ve reached a milestone, in most people’s opinion the administration has been perplexing at the very least with creditors interests always 2nd place. LH specifically asked them “what independent legal advice did they take” over the perceived & now pretty much proven conflicts.
Chuckles has admitted through several gaffs his involvement back in Feb, D&P allowed him to act as a shadow director. I was also under the impression administrators couldn’t facilitate name changes to the business as the trade name was another asset to be sold for the creditors.
There are so many areas found wanting in this whole sorry mess, will the judiciary stand up & be counted or will they fold.
Without fear or favour !
On the very same day that Graham Spiers begins to tell the truth about the culture of violence and intimidation at Rangers, Charles Green announces that he wants people on board at Sevco who, “understand the culture.”
And no politician or senior police officer has a word to say.
It seems that the non-viable device sent to an MSP – learned from television’s The A-team apparently – has done its job. Anything to say, Mr Salmond?
Listening to FW on radio saying ,great thanks has to go to the ragers players for taking wage cuts that saved jobs ,That would be the club that kept everyone in a job and recorded a 4m loss during their tenure .
As admins go Duff n duffer are truly original and I would guess always will be for this one admin
seems The *Rangers may no longer be attempting to ‘float’ the company as a PLC.. as ALL the debt lies with the PLC….. http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2515-statement-on-tax-tribunal …
GS has just been pinned down by a caller to admit that Sevco are indeed a NEW CLUB the dam is bursting ,could it be anything to do with the FTT findings
Hmmmmmmmmmm
NT and DP – thank you. 🙂
I sometimes have to attend Court, albeit the Sheriff Court rather than the CoS.
Usually I look up the Rolls the day before to make sure a case is still scheduled to be heard.
However, looking at the Courts website, it seems they’re not putting up the next day’s lists just now. I’m sure today’s CoS list wasn’t up even earlier today, although it is now.
Strange.
Graham why are you pandering?? Are you just a little scared? 🙂
Danish Pastry says: at 17:13
neepheid says: at 16:19
twopanda says:at 15:56
LH and that and all that
My pennies worth [despite never prejudge a Judge!!] + pure speculation on my behalf!!
Quite possible also that LH had taken a view on the COI issue – but after DG tape `disclosures` the Court may need more time to consider if matters brought up in tapes made things worse – fair enough.
But suspect HMRC want BDO in soon as. That’ll need funding from whatever’s left in the pot – and if its not there? Pretty sure HMRC have challenged D+P on Creditors resolutions including fees. Pretty sure now HMRC raised concerns on COI. Can’t see after DG `interview` there is no COI gig. So probably costs and disbursements if the creditors resolution was approved before the BBC Tapes could be a wee topic that may not be immediately resolved either and they may only have time for general discussion in amongst the procedure – but that needn’t necessarily hold up matters completely.
That needn’t stop BDO being appointed as interim – going in and finding out for themselves on the ground what’s what. Guess they could exit administration – but that may not mean that’s the end of it. If they exit administration the admins powers and those they took on under creditors resolutions to conduct a sale on terms without recourse to creditors will also end I presume – so cover gone.
LH may have to reserve final judgement till the CO/PF investigations complete and any further actions decided – and – await any report back from BDO. Basically I feel tomorrow if it happens LH will initiate another process rather than an outright conclusion
In fact I believe it quite possible that LH – just as with the COI – may require a detailed report from the admins on the `sale` to CG – in tandem with appointing BDO? – Possible maybe but all needs to be within the legal framework LH works to and to his discretionary powers .
But they need to clearly sort this all out. Who knows? – many ways to skin a cat – very interesting though
Don’t buy the funny handshake Judge bit though.