Much has been written on this blog, and previously on RangersTaxCase.com regarding the assets and liabilities of the former Rangers football club – however little has been done to look at the rest of the SPL and Scottish Football as a whole. Was it just Rangers making ridiculous ‘asset’ valuations or is there other clubs in real danger of following RFC to the grave?
Before we get started a quick explanation on the figures. They were all taken from the latest accounts as appearing on Duedil.com, so some are from 2010’s figures. I have also ‘tidied’ them up a little so that they are easily understandable, removing things such as minor stock holdings.
The big story in the Rangers case was how over valued their ‘assets’ were, and especially the freehold property. To remind you Rangers Balance sheet in 2010 was as below:
While on paper the net assets look very healthy, we all now know that the 130m of Fixed assets was in fact worth just 5.5m in the real world. If we change that 130m to the real life figure their balance sheet would have looked like this…
So, how do the rest of the SPL compare? This is a list of ‘fixed assets’ for each club as noted in their last accounts.
Predictably, Celtic lead the way, but a quick scout through the notes reveals the freehold properties are valued at 45m. Dundee prop up the table, but with no freehold properties to their name, this is not so surprising. One thing to note is the difference in value of the assets held by Aberdeen and Kilmarnock compared to clubs like Dundee Utd and St.Johnstone – this is important when we look at their balance sheets.
As you can see above, I have broken the balance sheet down into a few categories. We have the fixed assets we just discussed, followed by the cash in bank. Next is the debtors (money owed to the club within the next year) and then the creditors (money the club owes to others within the next year). A crude calculation gives us the Net Current assets or liabilities. A red number means that club owes more money in the next 12 months than they have in the bank, or are owed.
We then move on to long term creditors (money that is owed but not immediately – more than 1 year away) which will constitute loans from banks, or from shareholders. In the case of Hearts, who have the highest amount of long term debt in the SPL, 98% of this debt is owed to the parent company UAB, controlled by Romanov. This debt attracts a further 4.5% interest a year, while UAB also hold a floating charge over the clubs assets.
The final column gives us the Net assets or liabilities, taking into account the fixed assets of the company. As we saw earlier, Rangers had posted Net assets of 70m, only achieved by their ridiculous freehold property valuation. Are Hearts and Aberdeen doing the same? In the case of Hearts they include in their fixed assets 159,000 worth of ‘Memorabilia’… in addition to 15m of freehold property, while Aberdeen state in their accounts that the valuation of Pittodrie is a ‘rebuild’ value rather than a likely realistic sale price.
By declaring such high values on their balance sheets though, it produces a net asset figure, rather than a large liability that, in reality, is the case. Kilmarnock and Hibs to a lesser extent would also see their figures turn red with asset valuations downgraded.
What is heartening to see though, is two clubs with net current assets, in St.Johnstone and Motherwell. Saints were rescued from near bankruptcy in the 80’s by Geoff Brown and have lived within their means ever since. Motherwell likewise have been in financial trouble in recent times, but the club appears to have stabilized and is now living within their means on and off the park.
If another insolvency event hits an SPL club, the MSM will blame it on the demise of Rangers. What can be clearly seen here though is the damage was done years ago to clubs like Hearts, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen – it will be a battle to get back to the kind of financial position that clubs such as St.Johnstone currently enjoy. However, the message that Saints are currently sending out is that its possible to have a competitive team without breaking the bank, as long as others aren’t artificially inflating wage demands.
The accounts I used to get the above figures are downloadable here: I was unable to find for Inverness – if anyone can find please let me know and I can add them to the table. When time permits I will extend this to include SFL clubs as well.
Aberdeen | Celtic | Dundee Utd | Hearts | Hibs | Kilmarnock | Ross County | St.Mirren | St.Johnstone
thebasharmilesteg says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 09:51
Fraser is the BBC Scotland Business Editor. He has posted at least one previous article on the decline and fall of basket-case FC on his on-line column.
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In the early days of Rangers’ downfall, Fraser’s take on the situation was woefully bereft of any understanding or appreciation of the scale of their wrongdoing. Whether this was borne out of his unwillingness to be critical of a great Scottish institution, having inadequately researched the issue or merely ignorance, I am still not sure; but if I were a betting man my money would be on a mixture of all three.
10:30 Start!
twopanda says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 22:20
But I`ll still hang on that sevco did – in the end – have to make an application as a [new member] newco with a different company –and were initially granted a conditional license after haggling to last minute thereafter upgraded to a full license. [despite not meeting the criteria – hence the 5-way agreement]
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Sevco did not apply for membership of the SFA as a new member, the whole point of the 5-way agreement was the transfer of Oldco’s existing membership to Sevco. That may seem a trivial distinction, but it is fundamental to this whole switcheroo scam.
As promised I have done some homework, and here it is from the BBC- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18413384
“When the company is liquidated, its registrations with the Scottish Football Association and the Scottish Premier League will be terminated. The new company will not automatically inherit the old registrations.”
That is just a matter of general law- a company in liquidation cannot be a member of anything, since it has no longer has a legal existence.
http://lawtop20.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/liquidation-in-football-legal-sporting.html
“First of all, people need to appreciate that with the liquidation of a company all rights and obligations of the said company cease to exist. In other words, the company comes to an end. ”
So my point, boring and repetitive as it may be, is that if RFC had been liquidated in June, as it would undoubtedly have been but for Lord Hodge’s intervention, their membership of the SFA would have ceased to exist.
There would have been no membership to transfer to Sevco, no 5-way agreement, Sevco would have had to apply to the SFA for a new membership. They could not have succeeded in that application, as a new company which had never played football.
So without Lord Hodge’s unprecedented intervention in June, Sevco would be playing in the juniors (if they would have them), or alternatively have had to buy another company with existing SFA membership (Cowdenbeath were being touted at one point).
We should find out today what Lord Hodge’s intervention actually represented. Was it :
a) A genuine enquiry regarding a potential conflict of interest, or
b) A mechanism to ensure that the RFC membership was kept alive and available for transfer to Sevco.
If today Lord Hodge just nods in the liquidators, then so far as I’m concerned the answer is b), and the whole COI business was just a pretext. I’m guessing today will be a 10 minute hearing, liquidation will be rubber-stamped, job done for Sevco and its backers. But I might be wrong.
“Hearts boss John McGlynn says all SPL teams would have chance of claiming title without Celtic in top flight.”
This is a factual headline. 100% correct. Spot on. Bang on the money. Correctamundo.
Someone is actually getting paid to come up with this? Jeeeze….:)
Mike Farrell @mikefstv
My colleague @carasulieman will be at the Court of Session today covering the hearing involving Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps.
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should be plenty of tweets/coverage IF THERE IS A HEARING
couple of journos might look like fannies if there isn’t one! LOL
I do not beleive that Rangers, Sevco, The SFA, The SPL or any combination of them, with others as yet un-named went to the Court or Session and asked Lord Hodge to fabricate a delay in order that the Rangers membership could be transferred to ther new club.
I do not believe that, had they done so he would have said fair enough, leave it with me an I’ll work something out.
I believe that, given the evidence available at the time lord Hodge saw the possibility that there was a conflict of interests that had been hidden from him. He then acted to get to the bottom of that situation. Others may have stalled, delayed or whatever but that is a different matter.
Agrajag says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 10:16
Have to agree with you, a great many villains in this story, but Lord Hodge is not one of them. I will be interesting to see what he does, still think that those looking for instant karma will be disappointed. COI found, BDO appointed and asked to report on conduct of admin at an early date, is still my best bet.
However, we will all know very soon. Patience, this could run for a year or two yet, given the complexity of the situation. Still believe that justice will be done, though.
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 09:28
midcalderan says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 09:09
From memory Phil M’s book Downfall commented on the genesis of events. I believe that he did write that the City of London police investigation was the trigger where documentation was discovered and then HMRC were brought into play.
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I’m happy to be proved wrong LTL. We’ll know soon and I won’t be showing my backside in Jenners window over the Xmas season if I’m wrong.
“Hearts boss John McGlynn says all SPL teams would have chance of claiming title without Celtic in top flight.”
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on Celtic (and Sevco) leaving the SPL
Yeah, the SPL would be more competitive and more people would have a chance to win it….however, Walter Smiths take on it was this
You could have 8 80 year old’s running in the olympic 100M final – it would be competitive, but not really any good!
Personally, I think we need to level the playing field – either remove Celtic/Sevco from the Scottish League (somehow – no idea how and hugely unlikely) or we move to some form of revenue sharing and rule changes to level the playing field
Yes, in the short term it would be HUGELY damaging to Celtic (sevco) fans and they would be disillusioned/mighty pee’d off, yeah, in the short term there would be huge ramifications on the size and quality of the squad at Celtic
But longer term, we should see an overall increase in the competitiveness of other teams to win the league.
I am not in favour of a simple gate share, before that can be countenanced, the clubs have to sort their own house out 1st and everyone one on an even footing.
For example, the SFA/SPL should say – every club has 5 years to get their house in order. That means – Maximum debt/overdraft/loans of 10% of annual turnover. Squad Wage bill to turnover – max 65%, max squad size of 18 over 21 full time pro’s – under 21’s or players who have come through the youth academy of that club are exempt from that number and can be in the squad
once that is in place, they should move for all clubs to pay 25% of gate receipts into a pot. The pot will be divided up at the end of the season based on League place, number of youth and domestic players played, clubs financial management – not running up debts, maintaining wage to turnover ratios etc
It will prevent badly run clubs simply getting a hand out, it will encourage clubs to develop their own talent and it will reward the team that finishes higher up the league.
Aaaaand there off ?????????????
Its, 10.30 send the guilty partys into the courtroom
bawsbustedanatha says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 10:06
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“Hearts boss John McGlynn says all SPL teams would have chance of claiming title without Celtic in top flight.”
This is a factual headline. 100% correct. Spot on. Bang on the money. Correctamundo.
Someone is actually getting paid to come up with this? Jeeeze….:)
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Yes, that is what STV news reported when they got round to the story, but the headline at start of bulletin was, “John McGlynn wants Celtic kicked out of SPL!”
Has the judge put his black hat on yet?
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/34694093855/kick-ism-out-of-football
New blog on racism, sexism and sectarianism in football and the nature of taboo subjects.
Any ideas on why St johnstone’s assets are so low? Or is property value in Perth that much lower than elsewhere. I would also take it that Dundee Utd’s position now is somewhat different to that above considering they posted a £1.5m profit last week?
Agrajag says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 10:16
I do not beleive that Rangers, Sevco, The SFA, The SPL or any combination of them, with others as yet un-named went to the Court or Session and asked Lord Hodge to fabricate a delay in order that the Rangers membership could be transferred to ther new club.
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Fair enough, although I think what you really mean is that you don’t want to believe it. Neither do I.
However what no one has ever explained is why the liquidation was blocked. The role of the administrators could have been investigated after liquidation. The administrators’ remuneration could have been refused approval pending the outcome of the judge’s enquiries. An investigation into COI was clearly warranted. That did not require the liquidation to be blocked.
Somebody please restore my faith in our judicial system by explaining to me why the liquidation was blocked. I’ve been asking the same question for over 3 months now, and there are a few legal types on this forum. Yet no explanation. What am I supposed to think? Apart from the obvious.
Live updates from STV on court
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/197663-rangers-administrators-to-formally-appoint-liquidators-of-oldco/
click box at bottom of article
Before the start M’lud I’d just like to confirm your order of coffee, some sandwiches (not lamb), your black hat and at least three pairs of brown trousers, sizes, och just bring a selection.
And the topic of the moment on Follow.follow is not about the future of the Club – discussion focused on whether Nicky Campbell is bigoted or not!
stevensanph says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 09:52
Totally agree that the teams who opted for a frugal existence are now reaping the benefit and deservedly so. It might have been different, however, if every team outwith the OF had chosen to go down that line as their fanbases would have inevitably diminished and St Johnstone etc would have suffered as a result with reduced away crowds and just a general indifference to football.
I do think, however, that the St Johnstone model is an indicator to Scottish football of the way forward, not as individual clubs, but as Scottish football as a whole. St Johnstone accepted the pain, accepted they weren’t good enough and had no prospect of becoming good enough in, what was then, the current climate. They were a perfect illustration of where Scottish football finds itself now, and should have recognised itself as such years ago. St Johnstone was amongst a backwater within Scottish football, exactly where Scottish football finds itself within European football. But the whole of Europe finds itself in dire straits, and this is recognised by UEFA and it’s calls for Financial Fair Play and I believe it will be the countries who are quickest (ie Germany) to acknowledge and take steps to sort their finances that will benefit most.
St Johnstone realised there was no point in striving to be ‘up there with the elite of Scottish football’ and so decided to accept the truth and accept their reality. They are now benefitting and, despite the fact they will never be able to challenge Celtic, they are playing better football than they could have imagined a few years ago and, as you say, are no longer a perienial relegation candidate. If the SPL could come to the decision to accept they are not ‘up there with the big boys in Europe’ and to concentrate on becoming the best league they can by developing the talent available, then, while other leagues continue to spend in the search for European success, Scotland will, like St Johnstone, have a head start on most of the others in Europe when the rest realise theire time has come to cut their cloth.
I’ve long felt that we all get too wrapped up in the idea of European football and the cash cow that it is, and our clubs have all but bankrupted themselves in their efforts to do no more than touch the cow. This, to me, is highlighted in the way the Scottish League Cup diminished in ‘importance’ as soon as it no longer provided a way into Europe for the winner. I’d much rather watch Hearts win the League Cup this season (or any season), than see them getting knocked out of Europe, by some team I’ve never heard of, at the first time of asking next season.
The longer this takes the worse for D&P?
While waiting for the result, here’s a sensible take on the Celtic should decamp to the EPL tosh
http://analoguefootball.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/celtic-fans-should-resist-more-talk-of-an-english-switch/
Take it away Turnbull
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/National/article/25732/raith-rovers-chairman-fires-volley-at-holyrood-over-its-efforts-to-address-sectarianism.html
I don’t know why some people are upset by what McGlynn has said. He was asked a question about Celtic’s desire to join a European league and answered with quotes as follows:
All the above sounds sensible and measured.
As Paulsatim has stated, STV translated these comments as “John McGlynn wants Celtic kicked out of SPL!”
No wonder the MSM have no credibility.
scapaflow14 says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 10:51
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The longer this takes the worse for D&P?
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Hopefully!
Stevensanph – thanks for the blog piece; one comment on your entry at Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 09:52
There is a very interesting and well explained article on the Glasnost blog, written by The Battered Bunnet of the CQN parish/diocese/take you ecumenical pick…
IIRCl, one of the biggest obstacles/questions that needs to be answered is: “how do clubs retain their young talent long enough to develop them into players and sell them at the premium price (i.e. at the right time for the player and the club)?” In other words, what conditions could be implemented or other types of regulation imposed to ensure that clubs have the time to nurture their talent? At least part of the answer to that question is now being addressed by the work being undertaken by Mark Wotte; as much as it pains me to say it, the SFA does deserve credit for appointing him (for those unaware of this gentleman, suggest you google him, avoid the daily record’s in-depth articles and read up on his history).
Wotte’s work will not come to fruition for the best part of a decade however what all clubs can do, as well as local authorities/government, is ensure that the funding to provide the training, coaching and facilities required for Mr Wotte’s program is firmly in place, and remains to be in place for the long term. It’s very Scotland’s way to half-do a job, fail to follow-through, and finally scrap what they started, but this is the one thing that cannot be allowed to happen if our national game is ever to have a decent future. Quality on the pitch, whether at Raith, Aberdeen or Falkirk, will ensure that people want to watch and continue to go and watch their clubs in decent numbers.
Other solutions include knocking down three sides of Celtic Park; have some other (artificial) limit on the number of spectators that a club can allow into a ground for league matches; amalgamate clubs to maximize local population sizes; and/or pray that the EPL implodes financially in the next few years.
Thoughts?
The Huddleboard @huddleboard
Just started. D&P looking to finish and handover. Hodge not happy as papers only handed over this morning and others are missing. #alvy
Retweeted by RetroScot
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Guff and Help.For an international organisation they seem very disorganised in their paperwork administration.
Shredder anyone ?
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:01
Agreed!! Also sums up the MSM.
Looks like D&P have pissed off LH. Colyard Bristow objecting to end of admin too!
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:01
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Have STV edited out mcglynns other comment as seen by me in the metro this morning?
(With rangers being liquidated and then relaunched in div3).
About 38 minutes since Lord Hodge started proceedings. No updates in the form of tweets from @BBCDouglsFraser or @carasulieman
Does Lord Hodge have a lot to say? Does not look like an adjournment?
Paul McConville @Paulmcc12
Collyer Bristow – lawyers for oldco #rangers oppose administration ending
sorry Collyer Bristow! objecting to end of admin, LH apparently not happy with D&P
About 38 minutes since Lord Hodge started proceedings. No updates in the form of tweets from @BBCDouglsFraser or @carasulieman
Does Lord Hodge have a lot to say? Does not look like an adjournment?
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nothing from STV either – said they can’t tweet form courtroom, so expect tweets in batches – nothing for 45 mins.
one thing is certain – it’s not straightforward – 🙂
Tweets coming in that Collyer Bristow oppose end of administration
Paul McConville @Paulmcc12
Collyer Bristow – lawyers for oldco #rangers oppose administration ending
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Paul McConville
@Paulmcc12
Collyer Bristow – lawyers for oldco #rangers oppose administration ending
Sorry Rab.
‘I just saw a fat lady there,
She had a microphone,
I wonder whats going down’
____________________________________________________
Sorry Rab in case you don’t know, I am the Fat Lady’s promoter/agent. She is, at the moment, in rehearsals at the Crucible Theatre.
Reports of her clearing her throat are misleading – she is just over a minor cold and this may account for the premature excitement in the audience.. .
CB opposing end of admin. Why ?
Wonder how long before this BBC story gets edited?
“The Scottish Football Association later approved the transfer of the licence held by the old club to the new club started by Mr Green’s consortium.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20141946#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
verselijkfc says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:03
Other solutions include knocking down three sides of Celtic Park; have some other (artificial) limit on the number of spectators that a club can allow into a ground for league matches; amalgamate clubs to maximize local population sizes; and/or pray that the EPL implodes financially in the next few years.
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Is someone seriously suggesting that in order to help Scottish football we should artificially limit the numbers attending games.
I don’t even understand that.
AllyJ @ 09.28
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Exactly as it has been and is. Will it change? We’ll see what Lord Hodge decides.
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 09:44
5 1 i Rate This
Douglas Fraser@BBCDouglsFraser
On my way to the Court of Session in Edinburgh, expecting to witness oldco #Rangers liquidated
Looks as if we can get some form of commentary from @BBCDouglsFraser
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Nice work if you can get it Dougie! A skinny latte with a sticky bun all on expenses then watching the funeral of RFC!
(Wonder if we will have a minutes silence before the game tonight (copyright Tiger Tim).
________________________________
Hopefully 90 minutes plus silence!
finloch: John Mcglynn did not talk about sharing money, he said the league would be better off WITHOUT CELTIC.
If it is about fairer distribution of money than I’m all for it, but let’s start at the top and work our way down. So CL money and TV money should be evenly distributed. The elite 10-12 clubs of Europe are getting the lions share. Celtic are not in that group.
While we’re waiting on Lord Hodge.
“Hearts boss John McGlynn says all SPL teams would have chance of claiming title without Celtic in top flight.”
Yes, this is probably true. We should get in touch with UEFA to see if we can make this happen. We could maybe start a trend, as I am sure Spurs and Everton fans would love to get rid of Chelsea, Man U and Man City.
agropelican: Exactly, it’s a nonsense. Barca and Real would be the 1st two Clubs to be left without a League to play in going by McGlynn’s “logic”.
An hour in and no news other than a possible move to block liquidation. What is going on?
Turnbull Hutton again shows why he is a shining light.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/National/article/25732/raith-rovers-chairman-fires-volley-at-holyrood-over-its-efforts-to-address-sectarianism.html
Agrajag
Is someone seriously suggesting that in order to help Scottish football we should artificially limit the numbers attending games.
I don’t even understand that.
Maybe my logic is a bit out these days but the principle reason that Celtic have a built-in advantage is having a 60K-seater stadium. That is what gives it financial clout that no other club, bar one, can compete with. Over time, this financial advantage will manifest itself as success on the pitch, though not always. The stadium capacity and good football choices, in the main, meant it could compete with the now-deceased club. In terms of a financial arms-race, which is the starting point for two clubs being the principal winners of the SPL, size/capacity is/was the only game in town. Not sure what is contentious about that. What will improve the football and increase competition for all, is the improvement in quality (my point about Wotte’s program). If AZ or FC Twente can win the Eredivisie over clubs with huge stadia-advantages, then there is no reason (none) why Aberdeen, Hearts and the like, cannot be winning the SPL.
https://twitter.com/huddleboard
The Huddleboard @huddleboard
….today, but not disclosed beyond that. #alvy
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10m The Huddleboard @huddleboard
D&P brief confirms £1.7M in cash in the estate to be passed over and other assets detailed in their Note presented …. #alvy
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18m The Huddleboard @huddleboard
#alvy ..outlined that BDO will continue to deal with it. Become clear when their brief speaks. Hodge unimpressed so far.
Expand
18m The Huddleboard @huddleboard
#alvy Haven’t heard their brief yet. Their opposition founds on their case down south against D&P needs to be disposed of or perhaps…..
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19m The Huddleboard @huddleboard
#alvy asked: why would C&B oppose it, are they not whytes team?
Expand
33m The Huddleboard @huddleboard
Quelle surprise D&P keep on fucking up. Collyer Bristow on the other side are opposing. Havent heard the grounds yet. More to follo #alvy
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33m The Huddleboard @huddleboard
Just started. D&P looking to finish and handover. Hodge not happy as papers only handed over this morning and others are missing. #alvy
May be very lat with this comment but have to get it off my chest!
RE:
MickyMince says:
Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 22:26
MM, I must agree with your final comment (btw) regarding that this piece written by GS, seems to be on the whole a very honest procurement.
However….
(I am intrigued, {and skeptical} as to why this has come about at this specific time; why not in the preceding year’s I wonder, after all he goes back to 2005+
What I have never understood throughout this entire debacle, is why the MSN, (whom I believe want “RFCIASTBL”** follower’s to remain a primary source of income by continuing to buy their tabloids) would allow the CG “saga” to be carried out to fruition.
Surely they can see beyond the end of their noses?
They must see that by colluding with CG (and by printing his aberrations), they are ultimately creating a scenario in which their collusion in allowing he/his “consortium” (cough, cough….) to get his grubby paws on the hard earned cash from the supporters; will come back to bite him/them on the bum big style???
When this all goes pear shaped, I hope that fellow followers have kept a timeline of all the bulls**t that the MSN have printed, and that someone far more articulate and prudent than me; can pinpoint all the inaccuracies and inconsistencies for the world to see.
As we have seen from the past week’s bulletins, our knowledgeable journalists seem to be pushing forth an alternative media stream.
Do the media think that we are inarticulate and unable to fathom the truth for ourselves?
What year are we actually living in here?
Do you believe in Pinocchio? I know I don’t.
The Huddleboard @huddleboard
….today’s proceedings. Interested parties must be aware of what is being sought. #alvy
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52s The Huddleboard @huddleboard
D@P brief still on her feet going through the Note. Talking about Ticketus. Hodge wants confirmation they are aware of… #alvy
Anyone else’s F5 button already taking a hammering at this early stage of the day?
Might nip out for some popcorn 😀
https://twitter.com/huddleboard
Don’t know how they are doing it – Tweets on proceedings, appears to be the most up to date.
I’m waiting for the Chinese wall defence to make an appearance.
But seriously, is Nicky Campbell a bigoit or not…
Long Time Lurker
I believe the huddleboard has an operative embedded in the CoS. 😉
RM seems to have melted again
obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:48
Not Lord Hodge 🙂
LH wants transcript of CW tape from BBC – may have to make court order
Duff and Duffer says no indication as to when FTT decision will be issued.
Hmmmmmmm…..do they mean when it’s published?
D&P remuneration being contested
BBc seem to be following standard line around not handing over material without a court order
“Hodge confirms he’s asked the BBC for the recent stuff. BBC refuses for now and he might have to issue court order for transcripts “
I am not in court just stealing comments from twitter.
If I had been in court I could have given the last rites.
Why would the BBC refuse the Judge the Whyte tapes? Unless there’s more material they want to use from it…… 😀
Today would be a good day for Mark Daly to pop up with ever more incrimnating proof of Duff and Duffer’s dubious role in this saga.
obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:59
can’t think of any news organisation that would hand over material to the courts without a fight – goes to protection of sources, journalistic independence etc etc
obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:59
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Why would the BBC refuse the Judge the Whyte tapes? Unless there’s more material they want to use from it……
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Protocol! Keeps everthing legal and above board!
Aye I thought as much. In any case Lord Hodge will probably compell them to do so sooner or later. Hopefully not before we get to hear more of Agent Whyte’s tapes!
scapaflow14 says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:42
I’m waiting for the Chinese wall defence to make an appearance.
Wot…no “A big boy did it” or Chewbacca…!! am gutted
neepheid says: at 10:06
twopanda says: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 22:20
Thanks NH – you were right – there is a new surprise in there after all – you raise a very interesting point. – will post later after LH discussions 😉
obonfanti88: The problem is the Wheels of Justice turn very slowly in Scotland. How long would it drag out if Hodge does compel the BBC to hand over all they have?
Well the Cara Sulieman Tweets are a waste of time or has the battery gone on her iPhone?
wonder why the BBC withholding material tweets now disappeared from timeline?
thebasharmilesteg says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 12:08
she said she could only tweet at breaks!!!
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 11:41
3 1 Rate This
https://twitter.com/huddleboard
Don’t know how they are doing it – Tweets on proceedings, appears to be the most up to date.
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Latest Huddleboard tweets have vanished??