David Low
represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.
As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.
His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.
He provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.
Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.
TSFM
Fair point about the responses to sectarian songs etc, but it remains one of the most disturbing aspects of Scottish football and it would be a great service to document any and all instances that the SFA and MSM choose not to hear.
Any chance of a separate thread to do this?
hello all,
does yesterdays t’rangers result mean that they remain undefeated in the scottish cup over 22 minutes?
😆
@ Allyjambo 0951
“I don’t think there’s anything the referee can do to give Rangers a free-kick there”.
The other merely pointed out that the ‘through the man’ tackle by Foster wasn’t shown. (only smiley I could find to represent a wry smile)
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Yes they don’t half talk some shite. I had to endure SSB on my commute to work yesterday and heard Keevins say, “Rangers dominated the game and that is a fact”, (or words very similar but there was a big stress on the word fact when he spoke). That is not a fact, in fact it is nothing of the sort. The BBC website has statistical facts on the game. And as a fact Utd had 51% of the play and 6 shots on target to T’Rangers 3. Fact.
As another fact Florence Nightengale was a pioneer of statistics and invented the pie chart.
But factually that is off topic here. 🙂 unlike Keevins facts which are just not facts at all, even if Ally said so.
Danish Pastry says:
April 13, 2014 at 7:46 am
Noticeable funereal atmosphere on SSB, although some very interesting calls. A bit of a Solomon’s dilemma facing many of the Ibrox faithful.
and
GoosyGoosy says:
April 13, 2014 at 8:46 am
briggsbhoy says:
April 12, 2014 at 10:54 pm
Start a new club with non sectarian baggage and gain not only the respect of other fans but possibly some new fans as well
———————————————————————
Solomon would have approved – chop the baby in half. The half of the ‘baby’ that takes with it the bile and the threats vs. the decents who are interested in football as a competitive sport. One would make friends, the other would glory in making enemies (not least the other ‘Rangers’ presumable), and even the SFA would have a way out of their dilemma, with a team in blue they could sell to the world. Probably both would be bumped into the league mind you, so poor old Spartans would be one further down the list of potential applicants again.
The referee yesterday was an absolute disgrace, I don’t much care if it was bias or simply ineptitude. If that is his normal work standard, then he shouldn’t be refereeing a kids game.
Lots of things used to be part of the “rich tapestry”, thankfully, society, except for a corner rooted in Govan has evolved and grown.
The selective application of their own rules, is one of the primary reasons that the SFA is held in such contempt, unfortunately they are both too arrogant and stupid to care about their fan satisfaction levels. They care about the their customer satisfaction levels, but, as they see the clubs as their only customers who matter, nothing will change.
If people want to see change, then they will have to pressure the clubs, just as we pressured the clubs over re-admitting Rangers
helpmaboab says:
April 13, 2014 at 8:49 am
If the media or the football authorities will not report on sectarian singing and chanting,who will? I think Jean/Brenda and others are perfectly entitled to pose the question.
——
For sure. However, it has been said that such singing wasn’t immediately apparent on the TV broadcast.
Do people really have the time and inclination to rake through Youtube to find fans of a team they don’t support singing offensive songs, and then be sickened by it?
Seems a bit strange to me, although I agree that relevant punishment should be handed out given such evidence.
Allyjambo says:
April 13, 2014 at 9:51 am
6 0 Rate This
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Speaking of fouls, there’s a wee clip from yesterday’s match doing the rounds. It is a Keystone comedy moment but there is a slightly nasty side to it as well.
The clue is LM’s right leg:
http://oi62.tinypic.com/71sazd.jpg
Brilliant. That he then cracks his nose off daly’s knee injuring him in the process is just comedy gold.
April 13, 2014 at 10:13 am
2 0 Rate This
TSFM
Fair point about the responses to sectarian songs etc, but it remains one of the most disturbing aspects of Scottish football and it would be a great service to document any and all instances that the SFA and MSM choose not to hear.
Any chance of a separate thread to do this?
——————————————
This is a fantastic idea . Dates , Times and video links of the offences committed . His hearing and memory may be selective , but he can’t ignore documented evidence . The only problem is going to be finding the poor unfortunate soul , who has to sit through Sevco games . I can’t think of anyone I dislike enough to nominate . Joking aside , a seperate thread to monitor this is a worthwhile exercise . Great shout ptd1978
Tartanwulver says:
April 13, 2014 at 10:41 am
1 0 Rate This
… Solomon would have approved – chop the baby in half. The half of the ‘baby’ that takes with it the bile and the threats vs. the decents who are interested in football as a competitive sport.
——–
I remember on RTC, Yojimbo (I think that was his alias), myself, and many others seeing this as a real possibility. It’s probably still the best option. It gives both sets of supporters somewhere to go. Proper fans would have no problem with starting over on the bottom rung of the ladder.
Lord Wobbly says:
April 13, 2014 at 9:59 am
5 0 Rate This
DANISH PASTRY says:
April 13, 2014 at 9:48 am
0 0 Rate This
Seems incredible, but a new sponsor for the The Rangers.
Joining the likes of Crawley Town and Newport Country.
Seems a bit of a gamble by 32Red, though. Will there be
a club to sponsor?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/
article-2603545/Rangers-boost-coffers-signing-shirt-
deal-online-casino-32Red.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A multi-year, multi-million pound deal no less!
Is that Keith ‘wealth off the radar’ Jackson-style wording? Will we discover that it is really nothing of the sort?
———————–
http://www.32redplc.com/investor-centre/publications/32RedAnnualReport2013_040314.pdf
I would doubt severely the prospect of this deal being a multi million pound deal as a quick glance at the 2013 accounts shows a net profit of only 2.2 million. Interesting to note the company also operate an EBT scheme!!
@ Danish
Would that video clip not be 100% perfect to be synced with John Lennons wonderful song, “instant karma”. Remember the first line in the song?
“Instant Karma’s gonna get you
Gonna knock you right on the head”
Angus1983 says:
April 13, 2014 at 10:47 am
Do people really have the time and inclination to rake through Youtube to find fans of a team they don’t support singing offensive songs, and then be sickened by it?
—————————————————–
Angus, I didn’t rake through anything to see this. It’s readily available on Twitter.
As for the observation that it was not apparent on the TV broadcast, well words fail me.
Maybe one day we might have a change in the 2 most used phrases from
Dissapointed yes,and Surprised no, to
Dissapointed no and Surprised yes
dont hold your breath though
Jean7brodie @ 11.14am
I’ll second that we eventually turned down the volume it got so bad!!! But well done Jackie loved his wee smile at the end …….. Mr Lunny…….. Do your job!!!!!!
Do people really have the time and inclination to rake through Youtube to find fans of a team they don’t support singing offensive songs, and then be sickened by it?
ask leigh. answer – yes.
then ask vince. answer – sometimes.
fara 1968
Im guessing here but are you ,same as myself a brother of the flame ? and if yes , you must be group 5 .
If not ignore my ramblings.
Casper.
Rangers fans are focused on the 18th April as the end of the 120 day review. King has manipulated those not prepared or capable of thinking what this means.
It does not mean that Rangers will rush out with the findings chapter and verse, along with a solution to regain what they see as their entitled position looking down on the rest of us. What is likely to happen is that Wallace will present his finding to the RIFC board, and possibly have off line discussions with major shareholders. He will also present a short and mid term plan.
These plans will have to be discussed and voted on by the board. Then and only then will the outcome be presented to the wider Rangers stakeholders, including season book holders and suppliers, who need to have confidence should they decide to continue to offer credit. The SFA should also be presented with a plan which proves Rangers can meet the obligations of their licence and the SPFL can have confidence Rangers will be able to fulfill a full seasons fixtures.
This is actually the proper procedure for Wallace to follow, and KIng’s rabble rousing is nothing other than an attempt to get control for himself at the lowest possible price.
There is another date though that may end up having some significance to Rangers , and that is the 4th June 2014. this is the date Sevco 5088 will be wound up and dissolved unless someone challenges the winding up order issued last month by the Registrar of Companies.
Under that order all property and rights vested in Sevco 5088 , or held in trust for Sevco 5088, will revert to the Crown. That will be an interesting day if it comes to pass. In simple terms as i understand it, unless Whyte and Earley get this winding up order cancelled, and remember it wasn’t Green or Rangers who issued it, this was issued by the Registrar, then their claim passed to the Crown.
That means that the Crown could drop it if they believe it to be a spurious claim, which means the contingent liability that is stopping Rangers conventional borrowing against assets will disappear. The alternative is The Crown believe the claim has merit , and with the resource to pursue the claim will proceed against RIFC or TRFC or possibly personally against Charles Green.
ptd1978 says:
April 13, 2014 at 10:13 am
‘…Fair point about the responses to sectarian songs etc, but it remains one of the most disturbing aspects of Scottish football’
—————-
The basic problem ,ptd1978, lies in the fundamental incapacity/unwillingness of the Authorities-be they the Football or the Civic Authorities-to grasp the nastiest nettles in our society and face up to the fact that racism and religious sectarianism are more deeply rooted than most of us are prepared to admit.
The stupid antics of a Griffiths or a Gaza or a pipe-smoking QC are just tiny little markers of a deeper sickness.
A sickness that perversely was made worse by the attempt by our legislators to ‘cure’ it by passing the idiotic “Offensive behaviour at football…” legislation.
In other words, as a topic, it should not, in my opinion, be syphoned off into a separate thread, but very much kept in the forefront of our interest in trying to ensure fair and just administration of our sporting and civic lives.
Barcabhoy says:
April 13, 2014 at 11:37 am
I would imagine that the disclosure of any findings from the review, and the plans for action, will have to be released in accordance with the AIM rules as, I’m sure, there is quite a lot riding, Stock Market wise, on these findings. The timing of any announcement, and just how much is announced, will all depend on how much TRFC want to/must reveal. Whatever it is the supporters, King and even the SFA want will be secondary to the legal requirements of such an important and market sensitive announcement. I doubt the requirements of the supporters and the Stock Market are in accord and would suggest they are polar opposites. I doubt a compromise will be acceptable to either group.
Barcabhoy says:
April 13, 2014 at 11:37 am
The SFA should also be presented with a plan which proves Rangers can meet the obligations of their licence and the SPFL can have confidence Rangers will be able to fulfill a full seasons fixtures.
============================
Seriously, would that really be an issue? The SFA would come with any number of 4/5/6/7 way agreements, temporary memberships, transfer of shares, you name it. Rules will either be bent or blatantly broken, but a club called Rangers will be protected and advanced no matter what.
Superb post in my view.
Puts in words better and fairer than many opinions.
Valuable in a non scottish context as well, explaining some other decisions in other leagues/interationals.
Buddy
buddy_holly says:
April 13, 2014 at 12:03 pm
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_________________________________________
I hate to say this.
But yesterdays affair does provide some convincing – admittedly not compelling evidence – to the neutral that SFA refereeing can indeed be highly suspect on occasion.
How else do you explain a situation where DUFC emerged with more cards than TRFC – who probably should not have even finished with 11 players on the park, whilst DUFC were denied a stonewall penalty, in cirucmstances where there were credible (albeit unverified) claims ahead of time that the official was a follower of one of the clubs on the park?
Now, the claims of bias were specific and were made a priori, not post hoc.
And in my view, no impartial analysis can conlcude other than that these claims of bias were quite probably substantiated by events as they unfolded.
We are not talking about one or two marginal calls, but a series of decisions that could have materially impacted the passage of play. The conclusion is almost inescapable I am afraid. The alternate hypothesis (no bias) looks hard to substantiate yesterday.
On the balance of probability, that referee was biased in favour of one club. I cannot and will not say that this was deliberate, but I will say that to me it was apparent.
Had this been a case of only whingeing about refereeing after the event, the evidence burden in my view would not have been adequate, as the charge could have been dismissed as post rationalisation (‘sweating the data’ we call it) to prove a preconceived conclusion.
Had this been a case that DUFC lost, and then blamed the refereeing for this, it again could have been dismissed as ‘observer bias’, i.e people seeing what they wanted to see and ignoring contrary data.
Neither of thise situations applied yesterday.
But there were some appalling tackling by TRFC players that went unpunsihed.
A clear penalty was waved away.
And one strongly suspects the Wilson switch by McNamara was timed with the referee in mind, rather than the flow of the game, as the player most likely to invite a second yellow, which one suspects would not have been slow in being produced. Why should McNamara feel the need to do this?
There was no level pitch from what I was watching. DUFC prevailed despite the obvious efforts of the officials to influence things the other way in my opinion.
So I am afraid that in my view, refereeing scrutiny is a question that should be opened up.
There are fairly objective ways in which it would be possible to both demonstrate and measure impartiality of officials. And these should be implemented I think.
And I think that we should start from an assumption that bias is inevitable, but not deliberate, and that objectivity is the genuine aim of all those involved in refereeing.
The objective measures could then be used to identify when such objectivity is breaking down and present solutions for when such circumstances recur. And these objective measures should be published.
Those few corrupt individuals to whom the above assumption does not apply will however be left with no place to hide within such a system.
And the evidence which results will enable the referees to robustly refute all charges that result from sour grapes, and thereby to improve their respect and standing in the game.
Just a thought given, given yesterdays result at Ibrox, and the choking off of some revenue for Sevco, will the Cowdenbeath connection start to come into play with Jim Methven taking his St. Mirren interest a step further and joining up with the Swiss Consortium’s interest in St.Mirren?
“The Swiss bid apparently involves former Rangers player and scout Neil Murray (if it’s a takeover with a Rangers link there has to be a Murray involved). A company called St Mirren Development Ltd was registered late last year with both him and Liam O’Donnell listed as directors, so it would seem there may be some truth in that one” (this info lifted from St. Mirren fan’s website).
Will Sevco 2 be playing out of Paisley ? Remember Whyte/Green’s earlier discussions with St. Mirren?
@ Casper 999
A brother of the flame. Is that a firefighter? No I work in engineering. But I do have a few friends who work as that and it’s good to have someone off on the same silly days that I sometimes find I’m off. I will have to ask them what group they are.
Cheers 😉
Armageddon, don’t you just love it
Scottish Cup Final
Dundee Utd v St Johnstone
We’ll done to both teams
Ryan, I sincerely hope that yourself and like minded fans of TRFC can rescue something resembling a football team from the slow(est ever) motion train wreck that your club currently resembles. And before anyone has a go, yes, I mean ‘club’ in the accepted logic that Rangers exist, fait accomplit. I have a colleague who echoes your sentiments and he is embarrassed by the goings on down Govan way. A season ticket man for 20 years, he has had enough.
On the same topic, my partner and I were out n about in town yesterday and ran into two old geezers, resplendent in the bowling regalia, you know the attire, the blazer wi a hunner badges, white v-neck. They had been at a pre-season committee meeting and had lingered in the lounge. When we met them they were wending their way merrily home, (Long winded I know but work with me here, I’m cutting a long story short).
It came up in conversation that I had won a few quid at the football and one old gent expressed his incredulity (dumfoonert was the word) that I had bet against The Gers. Their parting shot was to ask how I could support a team who do not belong in this country and are ‘hated’ by 90% of the population.
‘Dumfoonert’ is an accurate description of my reaction. Within three minutes they had morphed from Jack n Victor to a couple of nasty old b*******. With attitudes like that being the norm, it could be a long road Ryan, but good luck anyway.
I’m not really one who believes in omens and portents, but the Cup Final is on May 17th.
Stevie May – No17
Spooky.
Well done st johnstone. They will be dancing in the streets of Johnstone tonight 🙂
M8Dreamer says:
April 13, 2014 at 2:38 pm
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Armageddon, don’t you just love it
Scottish Cup Final
Dundee Utd v St Johnstone
We’ll done to both teams
_______________________________________
2 finals. 4 different teams. The League cup final could have gone either way. As could the cup final.
Bookies must be loving this!
Well done Saintees. A hard fought win with 2 good finishes from May.
32Red shirt sponsorship
World record for the number of new strips issued in quick succession to fleece the punters?
M8Dreamer says:
April 13, 2014 at 2:38 pm
25
0
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Armageddon, don’t you just love it
Scottish Cup Final
Dundee Utd v St Johnstone
We’ll done to both teams
—————
A h but…but…but ranjurs didnae win a cup but
Lots of posts on the Cup Final. There should be an online campaign to unofficially name it the ‘Armageddon ma erchie Cup Final’!
Hope both teams take a big support. 47K at the Dundee Utd v Ross County final. don’t see why this one won’t top 50K.
TSFM says:
April 13, 2014 at 3:36 am
Are we really gonna have the surprised and outraged “bile and sectarian chanting” debate EVERY time Rangers are on the telly?
No more please. Let’s agree that it is a bad thing and move on.
—————————————————————————————-
“…….TSFM will ask the questions that the mainstream media have consistently failed to ask of the authorities, who have equally consistently failed to govern the sport in accordance with their own rules.”
I appreciate my quote above is slightly selective but I believe that it is fair in conveying the reason why we bother to read and post on this blog.
My earlier post yesterday on whether TSFM should look to lodge a formal complaint with the authorities seems to have attracted some support.
In an even earlier posting I had suggested a TSFM press release regarding some aspects of TRFC saga.
As fans of the game we are stakeholders in Scottish Football. As members of TSFM we have come together to seek a voice and channel for our frustrations. Granted we are not unanimous on everything but in many areas we have pretty much general agreement.
The ending of this nasty, bigoted singing is one such area. It does our game no good whatsoever.
Is TSFM just an inward looking talking shop or are we actually able to mobilise and make some impact? Even if we fail to get the authorities to act we should still be able to give the matter a higher profile. Do the SFA really want this to be brought to the attention of UEFA/FIFA?
We often talk about the MSM being ‘cut and paste’ merchants for the PR companies. Well let’s give them something to ‘cut and paste’!
Scottish Football needs a strong TSFM.
WRT the “32Red” announcement have things actually got confused?
Is not more likely that this is in fact the result of the 120 day Review and is an announcement of future strategy i.e. get all the season ticket money in and stick it on 32 and red? 😈
Sounds more credible than finding another billionaire with wealth off the radar…..
Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.
Well said, Redlichtie.
I’m of the view TSFM should use its “clout” in a more public way. I understand the reservations TSFM & mods may have as they probably rather like their windows. However, there must be a way of securing personal data & creating a more visible media presence. These are not mutually exclusive. Its all very well boasting of page views & unique visitors but if this is not harnessed to make progress on matters of common agreement (and decency) then it is but a talking shop. I would suggest that it is also how TSFM can stay relevant, stand out from other football forums and continue to attract the numbers & quality of posters it did at the the various heights produced in the Rangers saga.
upthehoops says:
April 13, 2014 at 4:10 pm
Lots of posts on the Cup Final. There should be an online campaign to unofficially name it the ‘Armageddon ma erchie Cup Final’!
————————————————————————————
Any enterprising teeshirt seller up for mail order tangerine or blue shirts?
I’ll buy one! 🙂
Scottish football needs more of this Armageddon stuff!
redlichtie says:
April 13, 2014 at 4:15 pm
_______________________________________________________________
You raise a number of excellent points here, but the truth is that unless we have resources (specifically time and money), there is not much beyond the role of “talking shop” that we can achieve.
Having said that, the talking shop role is not without benefits. Aside from the catharsis TSFM provided for many of us, there is a fair amount of information being injected into the public conversation from here.
If TSFM grows and further establishes itself as a true representation across partisan divides (by no means a certain outcome), I would like to think that we would be in a position to expand our role beyond the conversational one.
That however will require copious amounts of time, and by definition, money.
Ultimately we strive for credibility, and there are areas where we struggle to gain enough of it. My specific difficulty with the “sectarian singing” debate is the precise definition of what constitutes sectarian singing. For example, we all agree that Rangers fans are serial offenders in that regard, but there are those who will take the view that Celtic fans are also guilty of sectarian singing. I have no doubt that Celtic fans will differ.
And so it goes on; for example my own definition of Leigh Griffiths’ behaviour does not concur with John Clark’s view that it is merely Gascoigne-like daftness, but something more sinister.
Are we really ready to have a debate on that kind of stuff given I have about thirty first posts sitting in moderation from people desperate to have their outrage expressed in little more than pejorative language?
We discourage these kinds of debates because the mods have agreed for some time that we have to build and maintain trust with one another based on what unites rather than divides us. My personal view is that we are still not ready for that, and further, if we indulge in a barrage of criticism of Rangers fans whilst ignoring the other elephants in the room, our credibility is zilch.
Are we ready for that? Not a rhetorical question, but a genuine inquiry.
Good semi-final today.
Really a game of two halves.
Great comeback from St Johnstone.
What were the referees on though?
These were two guy who normally blow the whistle when a player trips over a blade of grass but tackles were allowed to fly in left, right, and centre!
Why were challenges allowed over this weekend that they would normally blow up for?
Strange indeed.
The great thing is that for two years now out of three the trophies have all gone to separate clubs.
This is what the authorities dreaded when RFC were consigned to history and ‘The Rangers’ allowed into the fourth tier. They attempted to frighten everyone. First of all by lies that the TV deal demanded four ‘old firm’ games a season. Then they warned of Armageddon due to a financial collapse of away fans for all clubs in the top flight. They also warned of ‘social unrest’. That was my personal favourite and one that I will not forget. How any nation of 5M could be held to ransom by such a small section of society is beyond comprehension.
Anyway back to my point. In their horribly, distorted vision of Scottish football, Celtic were supposed to sweep all before them year after year while most clubs perished in a financial winter. The fact that the honours have been evenly distributed must cause them great distress.
Where does this leave their grand plan?
I’m sure they were even more surprised when ‘The Rangers’ even failed to win The Ramsden cup last week. Regardless of what the media say, winning the Scottish Cup was always going to be a big ask because of they would have to raise their game two levels from their norm. The problem for the authorities now is that their grand prophecies for the sport they governed were so out of kilter with reality that no one will believe them the next time.
If there is a next time then there is already is a blue print (no pun intended) of how things will pan out in such a ‘harsh’ future. Teams will be able to flourish, finish farther up the league than was previously possible and gain more revenue in the process.
I’ve got a feeling that the soothsayers of doom had better get a whole new list of prophecies ready although this time I think they will be talking about their own futures in our sport.
A Groucho Marx once said; “be gone and never darken our towels again!”
and congratulations to the Saintees on their passage to Paradise 🙂
Not even the great Henry Hall & Co. ever achieved that!
On the second half recovery, I thought they just shaded it.
Commiserations to the Dons contingent. I thought McInnes was magnanimous and gracious in defeat.
It’s not often I have anything complimentary to say about the Bear Land ‘Experts’ but I do believe that credit should always be given when due.
It appears that they’ve helped initiate a total overhaul of the way in which the European Commission handles complaints alleging improper granting of State Aid. However I don’t think the Bears will be too happy at the new system which will prevent any further nonsense complaints to the EC.
On Friday the European Commission stated:
There is no doubt IMO that the EC has been staggered by the volume and ferocity of madness and bile they have been subjected to since the sectarian-based attack on Celtic began last June. The following month in July the EC started reforming State Aid rules and completed the job last week.
It seems that the daily outpourings of nonsense emailed to Brussells from deluded and deranged Bears has overwhelmed even the ‘limited’ resources of the European Commission who have reacted with classic but extremely quick and effective bureaucracy.
Complaints of illegal State Aid can now only be be submitted using a “compulsory complaint form” so that any allegations are submitted in a “complete and structured manner”.
And complainers are restricted to:
The Commission readily admits the changes are an attempt to save time and resources caused by unsubstantiated and inappropriately-motivated complaints.
On 11 April, Joaquín Almunia, EC Vice President in charge of competition policy, said: “Today we completed the most comprehensive reform of state aid procedures in the last 15 years. From now on, we will be able to more swiftly and efficiently investigate complaints that point to distortions threatening the integrity of the single market.”
Much as I hate saying this I don’t think there’s much chance in the near future of Celtic again causing a massive European upset ny lifting the Big Cup and even less chance of the club single-handedly distorting the integrity of the European single market 😆
However, Hats off to the Bears ❗ At long last they have achieved something positive from their Land campaign which will prevent the further squandering of taxpayers’ money in their doomed bid to damage Celtic 😳
Just back in after going to the Aberdeen vs St Johnstone game.
Although the crowd wasn’t great, the atmosphere definitely was, with both teams dishing out a good semi-final. Many many congrats to St Johnstone, thought they edged it.
As a sheep, a bit disappointed not to bag two trophies, but as a fan of Scottish football I think this is a great result and is for the good of Scottish football. I for one will be going to the final to support both teams and especially a Scottish football final with integrity.
Fara1968,
Yes , Im a firefighter, with your description of starting times and 4 days off, I thought you were too.No harm done . Amazingly I got 2 thumbs down for asking !! probubly off topic.
TSFM says:
April 13, 2014 at 4:46 pm
I have about thirty first posts sitting in moderation from people desperate to have their outrage expressed in little more than pejorative language?
===================================================
Let me say I now better understand the position taken on the subject and I am one Celtic supporter who is unhappy with some of the songs/chants expressed by my fellow supporters on occasion.
I know many Rangers fans unhappy with the songs their fellow supporters sing but we had Fergus and they had Murray and that’s why things are as they are IMO.
However it’s almost inevitable that huge changes will take place at Rangers as a club and within their support and I think it’s vital that lines of communication for informed debate are kept open. We either move on through a mutual concern and love of football or we remain in our ghettoes hurling insults and sometimes worse at each other.
For me it’s a No Brainer – we have to establish a constructive dialogue and no matter how slowly we have to keep moving on. We had a bit of a set-back when Green arrived and old flames were fanned.
But we must find ways to extinguish them but also retain our honesty and actually examine the contentious issues without resultant angst overwhelming the constructive things the blog is trying to achieve and that has to be IMO for the greater good of Scottish Football rather than just our own individual clubs.
TSFM says:
April 13, 2014 at 3:36 am
30 thumbs up, 120 thumbs down
Are we really gonna have the surprised and outraged “bile and sectarian chanting” debate EVERY time Rangers are on the telly?
This blight on Scottish Football cannot just be swept under the carpet by the SFA & SMSM and we must ensure it isn’t.
Rules are Rules, Remember.
The thumbs down tells you all you need to know
ecobhoy says:
April 13, 2014 at 5:25 pm
___________________________________
Couldn’t agree with you more EB, but there are many barriers in constructing the dialogue you mention.
Thing is, people do not like to hear negative noises about their club from fans of other teams. There are hardly ANY Rangers fans on here so no-one to defend them when these kinds of accusations are being hurled about.
With the facts available to us right now, there is no evidence that any other club has behaved (in a business sense) the way RFC did, so our distaste for that is underpinned by an objectivity not easily transferred to the subject of offensive songs, or refereeing decisions, or the character of various individuals in the MSM and RFC/TRFC.
Shooting fish in a barrel is easy, but won’t allow us to achieve the credibility I hope we all covet.
fara1968 says:
April 13, 2014 at 11:13 am
20 0 Rate This
Would that video clip not be 100% perfect to be synced with John Lennons wonderful song, “instant karma”. Remember the first line in the song?
“Instant Karma’s gonna get you
Gonna knock you right on the head”
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Just to veer way off topic. Danish pastry may have played a role in Lennon’s Instant Karma. Apparently, he’d spent most of the month immediately prior to composing the song in Denmark. It’s unthinkable that he and Yoko didn’t consume patisserie Danoise during that stay.
I’ll get me toque 🙂
Some melancholy but no complaints today – St J merited it on their second half performance. The Dons didn’t take the few chances they created, so it goes. The team looked a wee bit tired in tbe second half, result of 33 league games at the right end of the table and two decent cup runs. If they can pull off results v Dundee Utd and Motherwell in the coming weeks, then it’ll be League Cup winners and league runners-up which is a lot better than the latter days of Calderwood or all of McGhee’s tenure. Congrats to St Johnstone but COYR for the last five league games.
Another positive boost by the EC for State Aid for football and other sports in Belfast will aid Celtic’s cast-iron defence against ludicrous allegations of illegal State Aid.
Given the club’s history in fostering good community relations in a deprived area and it’s work in regenerating Glasgow’s East End this EC move destroys the fantasies of the self-styled Bear Land ‘Experts’ 🙄
Most important is the fact that the EC accept the State Aid could distort competition in the European single market but that’s OK because it wouldn’t ‘unduly’ do so 😆
The European Commission has concluded that Northern Irish plans to grant £110 million for the reconstruction of three sports stadiums in Belfast is consistent with EU State aid rules because the proposed funding contributes to urban regeneration and social cohesion, in line with EU objectives, without unduly distorting competition in the Single Market.
EC Vice President in charge of competition policy, Joaquín Almunia, said on 9 April 2014:
In 2013 the UK authorities notified plans to rebuild three old sports stadiums in Belfast with a view to providing modern, state-of-the-art venues for the three main sports of the region, namely football, gaelic games and rugby. The funding is shared between three beneficiaries:
The Irish Football Association for the soccer Windsor Park Stadium (£31 million), the Ulster Council Gaelic Athletic Association for the gaelic games Casement Park Stadium (£62.5 million) and the Ulster Branch of the Irish Rugby Football Union for the rugby Ravenhill Stadium (£16.5 million). Any surplus money will be invested in grassroot and community projects by the aid beneficiaries.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-406_en.htm
As what has been the main topic of discusion over the last few weeks has now ended in a positive for most we will be on wind down mode, apart that is from the new topic of discusion,I wonder what that might be, the focus once again will be on the club from Govan and the shenanigans of the SFA ,Mr Lunny will be good exhibit for discection on what he has completed in his role as ,well whatever ,I am sure we will have some good banter over what hopefully is a good summer and the game in Scotland can recover from its Armagedon .
fara1968 says:
April 13, 2014 at 2:42 pm
Well done st johnstone. They will be dancing in the streets of Johnstone tonight
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Well they will be dancing in the streets of St John’s town tonight.
TSFM would very quickly turn into a another version of the DR .
That’s something you need to know
TSFM.
I REALLY DID NOT NEED TO KNOW THAT…DID I
for the love of god don’t turn into another version of the DR, SO I SEE WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM…. 😳
coineanachantaighe says:
April 13, 2014 at 8:03 pm
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fara1968 says:
April 13, 2014 at 2:42 pm
Well done st johnstone. They will be dancing in the streets of Johnstone tonight
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Well they will be dancing in the streets of St John’s town tonight.
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What a lovely answer @coin 😉
I didn’t know it was also called that. The club name suddenly makes sense.
TSFM says:
April 13, 2014 at 6:15 pm
Where’s the line between silence & complicity? If something is wrong, you say stop, if that means saying stop every time someone brings out the old song book, then tough, (& like EB, I have a similar attitude to some of the Celtic songs)
The football authorities and the clubs have got away with this nonsense for decades, precisely because people didn’t say stop. You don’t gain credibility by refusing to discuss the issues that make some people feel uncomfortable.
scapaflow says:
April 13, 2014 at 8:19 pm
Where’s the line between silence & complicity? If something is wrong, you say stop, if that means saying stop every time someone brings out the old song book, then tough, (& like EB, I have a similar attitude to some of the Celtic songs)
The football authorities and the clubs have got away with this nonsense for decades, precisely because people didn’t say stop. You don’t gain credibility by refusing to discuss the issues that make some people feel uncomfortable.
_______________________________________________________________________
Your implication is that there is only silence or complicity. I don’t accept that something as complicated as this boils down to a binary choice. I think if you shout loud enough and often enough, you just become background noise. If we indulge only in finger-pointing people merely filter out the noise more efficiently.
Problems of racism, sectarianism and the like have only educational solutions. Expressions of outrage are more likely to entrench attitudes, not change them – and before we preach to folk, we need to have a consistent perspective. If we think the compliance officer needs to deal with Rangers fans, we need to accept that he should be as vigilant elsewhere.
An added problem is that sanctions against the clubs (if that is what is being suggested) are in my view ineffective. On the sanctions imposed on Rangers for example over the last several years by UEFA, how effective have they been in ridding their fan base of that problem?
People with these types of attitudes need to be isolated and re-educated. Shouting at them doesn’t work. My contributions in this respect over the last few days have not been intended to silence anyone – just to stop the shouting.
That education process I speak of will have to take place without any assistance from the clubs or the media, because reinforcing OF rivalries is made so much easier if there is a religious bogeyman to shake a fist at. If we have learned nothing else from this RFC saga, it is that sectarianism sells – it sells tickets, ringside seats at a TV circus, and newspapers. We are up against an institutionalised sectarian culture in which almost all of the stakeholders (who are almost certainly not sectarian themselves) are complicit.
The irony is that I think most of us here are agreed on the nature of the problem, and in our general distaste for it from wherever (I hope) it emanates. I really don’t want to waste time arguing about tactics, and I hope we can at least agree to disagree if that is the case.
TSFM says:
April 13, 2014 at 8:44 pm
If we think the compliance officer needs to deal with Rangers fans, we need to accept that he should be as vigilant elsewhere.
_________________________________________
I would like to think that we all accept this as a given. My disgust is at the the songs and chants, my sense of betrayal and injustice is at the lack of action taken to eradicate this poison using the legislation available to do so.
I agree wholeheartedly that education is the crux of the matter. However education need not be in isolation. Condemnation and a call for action, from the powers that be, are compatible with this.
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 13, 2014 at 1:35 pm
“And one strongly suspects the Wilson switch by McNamara was timed with the referee in mind, rather than the flow of the game, as the player most likely to invite a second yellow, ..”
————————————
I only listened to the second half of yesterdays semi-final on the radio so cannot comment in general concerning the refereeing performance. However the substitution of Wilson immediately following his booking resonated with me in the same way as is did with you RLD.
Addendum to my comment at 9.13pm.
The real meaning of ‘Education’
“It is necessary that the weakness of the powerless is transformed into a force capable of announcing justice. For this to happen, a total denouncement of fatalism is necessary. We are transformative beings and not beings for accommodation.”
― Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed
Cluster One at 6:11pm.
30 thumbs up, 120 thumbs down
Are we really gonna have the surprised and outraged “bile and sectarian chanting” debate EVERY time Rangers are on the telly?
Irrespective of who sings,chants sectarian abuse,this blog should be able to highlight and discuss it.TSFM,To attempt to minimise it by boxing it off as a Celtic versus Rangers thing does a disservice to us all.My original post is put in moderation yet attracted 114 TUs and 0 TDs.That suggests to me that people see it as an issue for discussion.
Dave King back asking questions again
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/271515-dave-king-challenges-rangers-board-with-four-key-questions-to-answer/
Latest statement on the DR site
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-king-declares-war-rangers-3411242
TSFM
We’ll have to disagree. Sectarianism exists in all walks of life to one degree or another, which makes it a societal problem. However, football remains the only place where sectarianism is acceptable and that makes it football’s problem. If sectarianism was genuinely unacceptable to the Football Authorities and the clubs, then blind eyes and deaf ears would not be the order of the day, and it would not be necessary for people, whether in this blog, or elsewhere, to say stop.
Helpmaboab
Spot on, this subject has always been heralded as a Celtic v rangers thing? Far from it, race and religion should not decide what team you support……….. As far as I am concerned applying the rules without fear or favour is all we are looking for whether it be insolvency events, manhandling referees, referees decisions, managers being punished for comments made when asked questions by the smsm, supporters banners/chants/behaviour, tackles from behind, feigning injury, dog whistling, etc etc etc THE SAME RULES FOR ALL TEAMS and MANAGEMENT and equality in punishments. Get rid of the suits and get a committee of mums in, we can spot a lie in a micro second and we don’t have favourites. The sfa is killing scottish football.
Resin_lab_dog says:
April 13, 2014 at 1:35 pm
57 0 Rate This
buddy_holly says:
April 13, 2014 at 12:03 pm
lets be honest here, the cheating club should not have been in that game yesterday as they did not score a goal against albion rovers. the corruption and bias within the ruling bodies of the game of football in this country is apparent for all to see.
there are none so blind as those who will not see.
I fully admit that there is a load of info posted on here that goes whoosh, right over my head, but the fundamental fact remains that the rules and regulations from the governing body of the game that we all love, have been broken, changed and manipulated for the benefit of one club that through its own mismanagement and corruption took it to liquidation and extinction. Yet, we have the ruling bodies of OUR game dictating that what has gone before is irrelevant and does not matter because what they do is done for the benefit of scottish football and every club that is affiliated. they want us to be grateful to them? for what? years of secret society collusion and misrepresentation? the governing bodies of scottish football are responsible for the wholesale betrayal of every fan in this country due to their favoring one club/company above all others.
sorry. cognac fueled ramble and rant, but the truth is there. what do we need to do to stop this?
Apologies for any incoherence, but i can justify every word.
I think with regards the sectarian discussion here that TSFM has made some very good points.
There are Rangers fans who continue to sing offensive songs at matches, although I don’t believe this is anywhere near as widespread as it once was. Not that I’m defending it, merely pointing out that progress has been made. Any punishment handed for the singing filmed at yesterday’s match would be deserved. I’d also agree with people who are confused as to how Leigh griffiths could be pulled up so quickly by Mr Lunny but no comment has been made about this.
With regards to this blog though, I do think we are a bit away from the open informed debate that is required, particularly with regards to this comment from TSFM earlier:
“We discourage these kinds of debates because the mods have agreed for some time that we have to build and maintain trust with one another based on what unites rather than divides us. My personal view is that we are still not ready for that, and further, if we indulge in a barrage of criticism of Rangers fans whilst ignoring the other elephants in the room, our credibility is zilch.”
I draw attention to this because many people have posted their outrage at the singing at yesterday’s match. Fine. I saw at least two posts on here in the last week (removed or altered by TSFM eventually it has to be added) which contained the use of a derogatory term for rangers fans, described by Nil By Mouth as the polar opposite of the offensive term contained in yesterday’s Rangers song, but saw none of the outrage on here at the use of the word, which is surely just as offensive.
The point is that the condemnation of such abuse must be universal and unqualified, regardless of the offending party, and until we are in a position where that is the default response in our community I don’t believe we are ready to have open and fair debates on the subject without it just turning into a shouting match about who is most offended by what. The debate will have to be about how to deal with the problem and move forward, not merely about self righteous condemnation.
If the “party troops”..remember that day?
can’t be punished, what chance the rest?
Best to just sit at the back of the bus with our fingers in our ears.(ps last comment about the situation from me )
King statement on BBC website .
Richard Wilson , ex of Herald fame= now fulltime sevco correspondant . paid for by All of us.
Unbelievable.
I complained to the Herald editor, suppose Il need to complain to the BBC.
Sickening.
We now pay to read this propaganda.
Dave king (remember him ) Q3. So the board sought finance in December, turned down the chance to sell anyone in January. Interesting.
Cluster One says:
April 13, 2014 at 11:06 pm
Afraid I have as little patience for the back of the bus stuff as i have for WATP
“Comparative integrity”. That about sums up the situation and the choice facing TRFC fans.
easyJambo says:
April 13, 2014 at 10:26 pm
EJ, I don’t believe we have seen a takeover bid, (for that is what this is), this publicly nasty since Tiny Rowland went after Harrods.
Mr Rowland was a businessman who had extensive business interests in Southern Africa during apartheid, perhaps Mr King would do well to remember how Mr Rowland’s very public war ended?
(He lost to Al Fayed
)
Im thinking of going to see the new spiderman film.
2 tickets .
Im going to demand the deeds of the cineworld building put in to a trust of my choice first.
You cant be too sure.
This madness is whats being proposed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RyanGosling says:
April 13, 2014 at 10:46 pm
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Well said.
I must respond to the Rangers board’s criticism of my appeal to withhold season ticket advances. This board continues its habit of evading issues by attacking the integrity of any individual or group that speaks out against them. I am happy to engage the board on our comparative integrity. Unlike this board, I do not regard integrity as a character attribute that comes with an ON/OFF switch
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Mr Integrity has some neck 😳
Campbellsmoney says:
April 13, 2014 at 11:31 pm
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“Comparative integrity”. That about sums up the situation and the choice facing TRFC fans.
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“Comparative integrity”.
Unadulterated, newspeak in its pure platonic form. 😆
Bravo!!!
A new entry for the official lexicon of oxymorons, no less.
I can see the sketch now on horrible histories:
” Are you impugning me, you knave?”
” I believe your integrity is comparative in its entirety, i faith”
” then bedamned. Pistols at dawn it is”
Spiv on spiv action!
Pass the popcorn!