David Low
represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.
As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.
His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.
He provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.
Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.
The fact that someone has made a complaint and there is therefore a police investigation does not mean that there is any validity in the complaint. We have seen that with spurious state aid rubbish.
So Rangers can hardly be accused of bringing the game into disrepute just because some “lifelong fan” who happens to be a “top banker” (oh dear there they go again) appears on cue from nowhere with an allegation.
Oh for a Woodward or Bernstein! And a fearless editor / media owner!
billyj1 says:
April 28, 2014 at 10:36 pm
Wallace’s resignation can surely only be no more than a few days away, with Administration shortly thereafter. It’s going to someone’s plan.
………………
Yep
There are persons involved with Scottish Football that have been advised to ‘wait it out TSFM is a fad, the heat they feel will diminish and extinguish, these people have a right to be on edge regarding chatter from this site, there’s plenty of committed intellects on their tail gunning for them.
C’mon, £3/month sub to TSFM about 10pm a day, surely better value than the fechin MSSM?
Or give a one off, what you can, if you’re unsure how to give ask, log in and ask, no probs.
Me? I’m the guy that almost got chucked out for Bampottery! But kept coming back.
I’m subbed for £3/month, 10p a day.
CO is saying his prayers that TSFM dies on it’s erse, surprise him!
After reading Kings comments in The Herald I thought I’d check the Sevco site for an idea of how the fans feels about it. At this time I could not see any threads referencing his statement.
Instead I spotted a thread titled “Dragonslayers Required – Apply within”. I did not even get a third of the way through the OP’s post as it reads like yet another denial of any wrongdoing by TCFKAR (The Club Formerly Known As Rangers) and points fingers yet again. The OP and others are utterly convinced they will be vindicated once the ‘truth’ is known and we should all be held accountable for our scandalous lies.
It’s hard to believe people can be that utterly deluded.
Personally I believe Rangers (1872 NIL) are innocent like OJ Simpson was innocent, and I’m probably doing OJ a disservice with that comment as they are guiltier than a greedy dog.
I doubt Wallace is going anywhere soon. As PMGB told us all months ago. Wallace is a Laxey placeman. He’s there to do a job for them and for other shareholders and he still holds all the cards. King and co might be having a field day now, but Wallace has a plan B if the season ticket money doesn’t flow and right now getting a decent return for investors in an insolvency event may not be such a disaster for Wallace’s CV.
Smugas says:
April 28, 2014 at 10:34 pm
10 0 Rate This
Right, so Kings response to the amateurish business review (featured in full now on the Herald page) can be summarised as “so what about that Celtic eh?” And his solution to having no cash? Give them more of course! Just not his.
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And so the traditions continue . All is cured by wanton spendsmiths , whose pockets are lined with everybody else’s money . 🙄
It would be genuinely hilarious if it wasn’t so dam pathetic . They are the only company , I’m convinced of it , that have never heard of austerity measures . Hell mend them .
BillyJ1,
Do they have a plan? It’s incredulous to me that a group can be so deluded into still waiting for a DK type to stroll over £30-£50m in a ‘soft loan’.
IMHO they have no plan, they are fractured and held together by their big Brother in Hampden.
Who are the Blazers in The SFA and I demand to know who is on their payroll for the last 15yrs, who are these Peepil!
I’ll take yer Armageddon Regan, and raise you a ‘new Firm’ ya low life!
Arbroath have today issued their lunchtime strategic review.
Firstly we have a bank account and credit card facilities. We definitely own our own ground.
We plan to now go forward and sail up to the Premiership and the Champions League where we hope to be meeting Barcelona at Gayfield in 2017/18.
We intend to have a share issue to raise £30m later this year.
All slightly more credible than other plans I have seen recently.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Out of town right now, but I wanted to thank the blog for the encouraging response to our plea for funds today. A couple of extraordinarily generous donations amongst the twenty or so received.
Thanks for your help.
Aquinas is not too far away with his vision. There is no reason why a mature and established TSFM cannot be a player in the Football News arena. In fact there are currently discussions going on to make moves in that direction.
There is no serious possibility that TSFM will die, but just as surely, we can’t stand still. That is why the generosity of our community is so important.
Big Pink is meeting with Turnbull Hutton later in the week, so we can expect a new Podcast with the Raith Chairman soon.
‘King reckons that cash will fund a team that can stop Celtic’s 10 in a row and do well in Europe’
Is that really what worries him….forget who owns the assets..forget the industrial levels of cash used to win the 4th and 3rd tier of Scottish football…forget the massive losses month on month…forget the spivery…forget the dishonesty…forget the shameful and unforgivable mess they are in…forget the last 3 years….lets just worry what Celtic are doing…
Sad…very very sad.
ptd1978 says:
April 28, 2014 at 11:49 pm
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I doubt Wallace is going anywhere soon. As PMGB told us all months ago. Wallace is a Laxey placeman. He’s there to do a job for them and for other shareholders and he still holds all the cards. King and co might be having a field day now, but Wallace has a plan B if the season ticket money doesn’t flow and right now getting a decent return for investors in an insolvency event may not be such a disaster for Wallace’s CV.
______________________________________________
Agreed. Its probable that Laxey sniffed out that they had been stiffed before the AGM and used their influence to put him in to sort things out.
PMG tweets & blogs suggest that the extent of the FUBAR has become apparent and led to those individuals at Laxeys that thought the basket case was a genuine moneyspinner being taken outside for financial re-education.
Nevertheless, Laxey own RIFC.
Kings plan seems to be to recreate what we all assume was TGEFs plan A, and smoke out the non brogue influence while cancelling the debt via ‘adminiquation.’
It seems the SFA – by not acknowledging the death of deadco – have created a monster.
Clubs (or a club) can fold and restart ad infinitum? No CL money this year? Not a problem… liquidate… liquidate…
Or at least this is what Kingy and the bears are counting on.
Fact is: Certainly the SPFL must realise that if a reliquidated TRFC is reanimated without punitive sanction, they will never learn and the horror will be endless. The REAL armageddon is a cancer of basketcase pretendygers invading the sport each saying ‘I am Rangers’ a la People front of judea/ Judean peoples front. And nothing can stop this but incisive action by clubs and regulatory authorities to bring TRFC to heel. Now.
I think this is where KIng has miscalculated: times have changed.
Scottish football doesn’t need ‘a’ Rangers at all (let alone a proliferation of them, for goodness sake!).
They are welcome here if they want to play by the rules. Same rules as everyone else. Pay your bills. Pay your taxes. Trade solvently. Treat opponents with respect. Abide by laws.
But its not their ball, and they can cry if they want to, but they are only spoiling it for themselves. They aren’t special (except possibly in the ‘kid with a violent temper and the elastorplast over the broken glasses sense!’)
Sort it out or storm off in a huff! No one cares! The rest of us have a sport to play.
That’s the message that scottish Football needs to send to all the Ibrox embodiments and factions.
Next years Championship fixtures should say ‘club 12.’
TSFM says:April 29, 2014 at 12:25 am
That’s gotta be worth a fiver to listen to!
We can now assume why the SFA were so keen to announce the venues for the Scottish Cup semi finals….so far in advance…
The early notification that credit and debit cards would be an issue…and the possibility of cash flow issues…there would need to be revenue generated as a lump sum..around April…
It suggests to me that someone at the SFA was given a heads up that cash would be needed…around March/April…the cup final was to far away…cue the unexplainable decision to award both semi finals to Ibrox?
Is it unreasonable to assume that a private meeting between both would have been discussed to agree what was needed?
“This flimsy review is completely superficial and could have been put together in a day by a relatively junior employee.”
Well, a truth from the gilb and .hameless lyre! 😀
TSFM says:
April 29, 2014 at 12:25 am
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Big Pink is meeting with Turnbull Hutton later in the week, so we can expect a new Podcast with the Raith Chairman soon.
______________________________
Excellent…
Tell Turnbull congratulations on the Ramsden cup success from me, and a great many others I am sure. And thank him. Tell him that a great many of us fans of other clubs would have walked away -sickened- with a cry of ‘games a bogey’ but for him and his ilk.
Redlichtie, yer a star.
hamemadesoup says:
April 28, 2014 at 11:59 pm
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Smugas says:
April 28, 2014 at 10:34 pm
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Right, so Kings response to the amateurish business review (featured in full now on the Herald page) can be summarised as “so what about that Celtic eh?” And his solution to having no cash? Give them more of course! Just not his.
————————-
And so the traditions continue . All is cured by wanton spendsmiths , whose pockets are lined with everybody else’s money . 🙄
It would be genuinely hilarious if it wasn’t so dam pathetic . They are the only company , I’m convinced of it , that have never heard of austerity measures . Hell mend them .
_______________________________________________
TRFC financial strategy in a nutshell:
1. Bet everything on red
2. If result is red –> repeat step 1
3. If result is black –> Borrow 2x sum lost –> repeat step 1
4. If not allowed to borrow –> insolvency –> write off debt , stuff creditors, raise cash against assets/ tin jangling –> repeat step 1
5. Continue until CL is won
Tuesday’s Daily Mail back-page – very relevant:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmV_n8gCcAECOw8.jpg
No – not the bit about trouble at Old Firm Youth Cup Final – and not the bit about King’s Wrath.
It’s the advert – “Have you suffered loses because you were Mis-Sold an investment”
redlichtie says:
April 29, 2014 at 12:20 am
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___________________________________________________
Is that ‘Zadok the Priest’ I can hear reverberating around the Pleash end? 😀
… (… there again, it might just have been ‘Mr.Whippy’ goin’ past the stadium …)
Actually, the more I think about, the more I think there is an easy end to this fargo.
The Footballing authorities could grow a pair.
They simply need to say thar NO FOOTBALLING LICENCE will be issued to any Ibrox club in 2014/15 if TRFC are liquidated.
That FORCES DKs hand, and focuses the bear brain!
It means a solution of either austerity with the current board, an asset purchase above board, or fresh investment to the existing entity (not precluding DK) become the only options. It forces the warring parties to the table at gunpoint.
I think anyone of these 3 outcomes is better for everyone in Scottish football (including TRFC fans) long term than the groundhog day heist that DK is planning.
All it needs it a wee bit of leadership from the governing authorities.
Goddam…. there’s always gotta be a flaw hasn’t there!
South0fThe Border says:
April 29, 2014 at 1:06 am
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Tuesday’s Daily Mail back-page – very relevant:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmV_n8gCcAECOw8
It’s the advert – “Have you suffered loses because you were Mis-Sold an investment”
———–
That wiz a brammer @South, made me chuckle annaw.
Btw, thought I read that a quick three-week admin, done and dusted, was possible? I read a little exchange between @Heavidor and @TheTributeAct on twitter that included this observation:
If true, does this mean that board is in a bit of a pickle regarding any potential admin? Can’t see the players and staff just rolling over and meekly accepting any contract termination.
To be fair don’t forget the suggested SPFL Board proposal (that read to me like Doncaster’s pen) to stop anyone repeatedly hitting the restore factory (league) settings button via administration from being promoted that only saw light via Charlotte and got voted down by the clubs and received precious little coverage at the time.
Good Morning.
I wake this morning to the news that Mr Dave King has “pronounced” as predicted on the financial review produced from Ibrox last week and surprise surprise Mr King, who if memory serves me correctly is a nominal shareholder — if a shareholder at all — in the company whose officers produced the review, is “withering” in his criticism of the facts, figures and conclusions produced by Graham Wallace and his team.
My Automatic reaction is to hit the snooze button and go back to sleep!
However, as I listen to this interminable rubbish, I am drawn to another, but related topic, altogether and that is the tortured legal logic of Lord Nimmo Smith as espoused after the SPL induced proceedings the learned Law Lord presided over some time back.
Many will recall that LNS came up with some surprising conclusions including the suggestion that Rangers had gained no sporting advantage as a result of the EBT scandal, made an odd ruling about the legal effect of the non disclosure of documents and the proper or otherwise registration of players, and of course chose to separate out the idea of a “club” being different from an incorporated company or even a registered club.
It is this last Item that vexes me this morning — especially given the financial review, the comments from King, and the position from the football authorities.
Everyone knows what a limited company is. It has a legal structure and personality which is distinct from the people who run it. It is because of that distinction that we are hearing all this chat about Graham Wallace now being the subject of a Police enquiry as a result of his allegedly misleading shareholders of the company he is paid to manage as a Director.
Of Course, the law says that you are not allowed to mislead the shareholders, Directors have duties to them, and an individual who commits a naughty act can and will be held personally liable for not acting properly in the eyes of the law.
That is what happens with a limited company.
Similarly, with a properly constituted registered club the office bearers of such a club accept and are deemed to accept personal responsibility for some of their actions. I remember going to the Sheriff Court on many occasions to renew the registrations of many Junior Football Clubs — armed with a register of members, the club constitution, and a list of current office bearers. This form of formal membership became less popular over time especially when junior clubs borrowed money from brewers to finance their social clubs. Club officials found themselves on the receiving end of personal letters of claim in the event of the clubs defaulting on the loan and many were very quick to resign from office rather than continue to incur personal liability as the office bearers of such clubs were personally liable for club debts.
The solution for many clubs, was the formal incorporation of a limited company to replace the registered club format.
So just where does The LNS notion of a football club being no more than an “undertaking” as distinct from a Limited Company or a Registered Club stand on this April morning?
Well I think the answer to that is obvious. It stands in the “illogical and legally impractical” corner with the dunce’s hat squarely on its head.
Whilst LNS might seek to justify his reasoning as an act of jurisprudential theory, in the real world of genuine liability and accountability, the LNS reasoning is de facto a nonsense.
Many fans of The Rangers Football Club are being bombarded with contradictory messages about whether they should renew their season books or not.
The financial records as prepared by the auditors of the limited company which runs this “undertaking” quite clearly states that it is very possible that the company and therefore the undertaking cannot necessarily continue in existence based on its current fiscal activities.
Now we have the Chairman of the same company, who I will remind you seems to run not just the company but also the undertaking, allegedly misleading the shareholders.
Yet, what if you are not a shareholder? What if you are what LNS described as a member of the “Undertaking” — a season book holder, someone who emotionally invests in the Undertaking, an occasional ticket buyer, a supporter, a fan — pick any name you want — what legal redress do you have against the Murrays, Whytes, Greens, Stockbridge and Wallaces of this world?
The answer is none — none at all— Nil— Nada — Zilch — a big fat Zero and all because in law none of these people made any sort of “Undertaking” to you in the eyes of the law and they are not and never were accountable to anyone other than the shareholders of the Limited Company which is a different thing altogether. In short, legally there is no membership of “The Undertaking” — it is a legal fiction, a thing that does not and cannot exist independently of either the limited company or the registered club or the group of individuals that runs it.
Further, if you follow the Nimmo Smith Logic, Graham Wallace can enter into all sorts of agreements with the SFA , The SPFL, The PFA and whoever else has any interest in Scottish Football and he can do so on the basis of any old rubbish statement whatsoever — he can lie, mislead, hide the truth , act unlawfully, break the law entirely — all in the sure fire knowledge that he might damn the limited company he chairs, but no matter how he tries he cannot tarnish or adversely effect the “Undertaking” that LNS describes as Rangers Football Club.
To be plain, it does not matter if Wallace represents Rangers Football Club, Celtic Football Club, Partick Thistle Football Club or whoever — the fact is that the so called “undertaking” that seemingly is any football club will and can continue on uninterrupted, untarnished, unconcerned and unaffected in the world of Lord Nimmo Smith no matter what the duties of a company director might be.
The legally defined club as described by LNS is like a fog — it is there but isn’t touchable — it has no distinct shape or boundary, substance or form, nor any set of individuals who are ultimately responsible for its conduct or integrity.
So, while the so called Spivs argue things out with the Glib and Shameless liar just remember that neither they nor the fans groups nor anyone else can in any way affect the standing of the club which recently won a title within the so called rules of Scottish Football.
I am away to saddle my unicorn and head off to work.
No doubt LNS will travel to the court by way of his magic carpet.
Aquinas says:
April 28, 2014 at 11:40 pm
=========================
This forum should be treasured and valued. It offers something that no other forum does, i.e, informed, respectable debate, with the moderators running a tight ship. I should know – I made a petulant comment recently that the moderators quite rightly took issue with, and on reflection I could see why. I appreciate the way It was handled though and I’m glad I am free to post again. When you witness the outright nonsense, lies, stupid rumours and downright bile elsewhere on the Internet, we really don’t know we’re living on here. Long may it continue!
Well said BRTH – just so.
And can I remind everyone that a “3 week administration” will not happen. They might go into administration and sell the business in 3 weeks (pre-packs do that in one day) but any administration would last for months.
And from recollection of the film, he ended up in the abyss??!!
A reminder of what Scottish football has been missing and what the country has to look forward to when the Ibrox club return to their rightful place:
Ibrox youth coach Billy Kirkwood: “There’s going to be a time when Rangers are going to play Celtic at first-team level and all I can say to that is, oh dear.”
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/celtic-u17-1-0-rangers-u17-fan-tension-clouds-win-1-3391799
My heart sinks reading that article on the U17 match. Really, it does. This is the return we are apparently clamouring for, that will “save Scottish football?”
CM
In your opinion could a pre pack split the assets (bearing in mind we understand the property currently sits within TRFC) in the same timescale or does it need to be ‘all or nothing’
broganrogantrevinoandhogan says:
April 29, 2014 at 7:05 am
15 0 Rate This
———
Wonderful summary of the origins of the ethereal entity. You should post it to LNS himself, as I wonder if he is aware of how his reasoning is viewed by the great un-titled.
Mind you, the indefinable nature of a football club as promoted by our learned friend may yet help anyone wishing to get their paws on the rights to the mysterious entity.
If King and a majority of fans of the former clubs founded a third Rangers, starting over somewhere, it would be hard not to accept them as the rightful ‘continuation’ of the spirit and heritage of the previous clubs — no matter what RIFC did at Ibrox.
[Edit:
PS Would Celtic be prepared to make a truly Grand Gesture and allow the newco newco to play at Celtic Park, for a rent that would allow newco newco to put a few bob in the bank and build for the future? Perhaps, such a gesture could, just perhaps, reconcile the auld rivals and finally remove the poison, leaving them as sporting rivals?]
Loved this from Keef this morning…Talking on DK rerunning the old record regards the board. Keef obviously does not do irony…
“There’s an old saying in journalism which forms the basic principle when writing any story: Tell us something we don’t know.”
Here’s a suggestion, Mr Jackson.
Why not start by printing what you do know.
Taysider,
I’m surprised at you! Personally I don’t have a problem with the passge you chose. When they meet, it will be a complete bile fest in which the media will revel, of that there is no doubt. The preceding paragraph however,
Tw*t
Which obviates the urgent need to go into admin before the end of this season (i.e. this week) as they would likely still be in admin when next season starts and so would receive a points penalty anyway. Next year’s fixture list to kick-off in November?
As DP noted from the twitter exchange above, any admin and subsequent attempted CVA would present an interesting dilemma for the players and staff. If – as suggested – they could block a CVA would they dare do it? Can you imagine a scenario in which the fans that have ponied up for season tickets lose everything while Ally McCoist et al stall for a better deal.
TSFM
The funding of the site needs to move on from donations, generous as some are. The subscription model has not taken off neither has merchandise. If TSFM is to become a stronger voice as most on here would wish, it is time to develop the financial model.
Yes, that means advertising on the site.
If having a side banner inviting me to book a holiday or a buy a car is the price I have to pay to see the current buffoons of the SFA blazerati thrown out and new, fairer and ecumenical governance installed, so be it. Do it tomorrow.
The readership numbers of the site are impressive. That is the currency we all bring. It should be harnessed to grow our influence.
The debate on funding has been had, ad free options have been tried, they have not worked as well as hoped.
I long for the day when a TSFM journalist stands up at a press conference and asks the questions the rest of the media won’t ask.
Grasp the nettle.
When the major shareholders (the owners) come to the conclusion that there is no more money to be made from TRFC then surely they will go for a dissolution/liquidation rather than an expensive administration. A CVA would only break the contracts to which they and their friends are probably the ultimate beneficiaries. The only benefit of a CVA would be the retention of an ethereal entity in which they have no interest. Thereafter if “clever Dave” (as he was referred to within SARS) or the Blue Knights or even his eminence the cardigan wish to start up a football team and use the property resources belonging to the owners then a suitable rent can be agreed. Otherwise it will be “good morning Mr Tesco” et al.
However, the Scottish Football Association will issue a licence to Rangers for next season in spite of the continuing uncertainty surrounding the financially challenged club. “The licence will be granted because Rangers have no bank debt,” a spokesman said. “We are unable to withhold that licence on the basis of what might happen to individual members.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10794515/Rangers-facing-25-point-deduction.html
Just shows how poor our administrators are at drawing up a rule book. TRFC dont have a bank (AFAIK) to have any bank debt!!!
@PAULMAC2
‘King reckons that cash will fund a team that can stop Celtic’s 10 in a row and do well in Europe’
Is that really what worries him….forget who owns the assets..forget the industrial levels of cash used to win the 4th and 3rd tier of Scottish football…forget the massive losses month on month…forget the spivery…forget the dishonesty…forget the shameful and unforgivable mess they are in…forget the last 3 years….lets just worry what Celtic are doing…
Sad…very very sad.
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Imo the worst thing that could happen to the rangers is DK getting any sort of control, the man has an uneasy obsession with ranger’s old rivals when he should be helping get the club on an even keel, if he truly cared about the club.. I really do not know what his goal is here other than power lust. I guarantee if he gets any sort of control over rangers we will be going thru all this again in a few years time when he is chased out of Ibrox… Forget celtic they should be looking to get their own club off the life support machine.
His paper talk is so predictable but unfortunately a lot of rangers fans are unable to take in what has happened to them (its not admin it was liquidation ffs). Too many fans want a to put a wee bandaid over the increasing cracks. There is a slowly increasing fanbase who realise DK for the what he is and know a sound foundation is required to build on. I do not think rangers can move forward, what happens over the next 2-3 months will not be easy to take for the gers fans thats for sure.
“Rangers review great news for Celtic fans” Not sure about great news for Celtic fans just more of the same from the past 2 years and that includes DK’s involvement. Mr Green’s sevco rangers foundation was a bunch of 3 legged chairs piled on top of each other, a master of spivery pokery..
TSFM, donation made, as for the youth cup final and D King, this IS what the elague will become if they get back, overspending, “we’re one of the big boys” BS and rioting at EVERY stadium in Scotland..I hope thwe shareholders at castle Sevco are watching, let’s rid the game of these vermin once and for all
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27198670
“Rangers maintain that the complaint has “no grounds” and chairman David Somers described King’s latest comments as “fictitious, inaccurate and misleading”. ”
Hardly going for King’s jugular, is it? Given the seemingly flimsy state of King’s position, starting with his apparent lack of financial stake in the present Rangers entities, stated lack of willingness to put his own money in, the complexty of his situations vis-a-vis the South African tax authorities, and taking into account his being on deck when the initial Rangers was going full steam ahead for the iceberg, you’d think they could put together something very damning indeed, and make sure it was well publicised (use the Rangers website or go to the English papers if all the Scottish news outlets are afflicted by Mad Lamb Disease). Yet no – they seem content to use very roundabout and rather gentlemanly phrases to describe King and his actions. King must feel like he’s being savaged by a dead sheep, or perhaps a dead lamb in this case. All very strange.
There is a further interest point here – if the advertising is contextual (ie. follows from what the site is talking about) – then any adverts that the SFA, ICBINR, the SMSM & SPFL place via brokers will also appear here – so they will be supporting TSFM – I see it happen on another well-argued and evidenced blog I follow that has a (justified & corporate) target that the target’s adverts appear regularly. He even posts how much he got paid for the target’s adverts 🙂
iamacant says:
April 29, 2014 at 9:11 am
1 0 Rate This
However, the Scottish Football Association will issue a licence to Rangers for next season in spite of the continuing uncertainty surrounding the financially challenged club. “The licence will be granted because Rangers have no bank debt,” a spokesman said. “We are unable to withhold that licence on the basis of what might happen to individual members.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10794515/Rangers-facing-25-point-deduction.html
Just shows how poor our administrators are at drawing up a rule book. TRFC dont have a bank (AFAIK) to have any bank debt!!!
————
Incredible, that SFA oversight could have been lifted from an old Goon Show script (“But sir, they have precisely no bank debt and that is precisely because they don’t have a bank.” “I don’t wish to know that, Neddy!”)
Thought they also had to have a business plan that showed they could fulfill the new season’s fixtures?
Smugas says:
April 29, 2014 at 8:56 am
Taysider,
I’m surprised at you! Personally I don’t have a problem with the passage you chose.
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Limitations of communication by posting messages Smugas! I agree, no problem with what was posted. The quote was intended to highlight that even the Ibrox youth coach, having just experienced the bile at the match, was concerned at the return of this fixture. If he thinks that, even when he does his best to be on message for Ibrox (as your other quote shows) what does that reveal?
Having been at the recent semi final, I can understand concerns at the bile likely to be seen at fixtures if and when an Ibrox club does return.
Cracking quote in The Telegraph:
If that is genuinely true, their licensing regulations are a crock.
No bank debt. It’s like they’ve copied and pasted the crowing (quieter recently) on fan sites about having no bank debt after the liquidation.
Taysider says:
Quite lively at the division between Arabs and regular Ibrox denizens, wasn’t it?
Incredible, that SFA oversight could have been lifted from an old Goon Show script (“But sir, they have precisely no bank debt and that is precisely because they don’t have a bank.” “I don’t wish to know that, Neddy!”)
Thought they also had to have business plan that showed they could fulfill the new season’s fixtures?
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They ploughed the rule book to find any squeak to allow sevco to exist, and even re wrote the rulebook FFS, they were never going to deny them access to the league after that clusterf…. because they “might” be in trouble….the SFA are Sevco cheerleaders, because despite the opposite to what they said would happen happening they cannot see the world clearly due tot he blue hue shiny off their nose and the earphones banging on about the Derry Walls…..
iamacant says:
April 29, 2014 at 9:11 am (Edit)
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However, the Scottish Football Association will issue a licence to Rangers for next season in spite of the continuing uncertainty surrounding the financially challenged club. “The licence will be granted because Rangers have no bank debt,” a spokesman said. “We are unable to withhold that licence on the basis of what might happen to individual members.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10794515/Rangers-facing-25-point-deduction.html
Just shows how poor our administrators are at drawing up a rule book. TRFC dont have a bank (AFAIK) to have any bank debt!!!
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I would urge everyone on this site — and on any other football site — to read this article and especially note the quote from the Hampden “Source”.
The journalist is Ewing Graham who has taken the trouble to get someone ( albeit not named ) to make a comment which is noted.
Note the comment — If a club has no bank debt then the SFA cannot withold a licence etc.
I am sorry, but the person who made that statement has absolutely no knowledge of the licensing rules and if they have any position of influence in relation to club licensing should be sacked from their job immediately.
We have been through just about three years of debate on why and how any club should be granted a licence and a lack of bank debt is mentioned precisely nowhere.
A club could have no bank debt — no bank account even — and still have sums overdue to other clubs, overdue social taxes, have extreme qualifications in its financial statements, be considered as not viable as a going concern, and be unable to demonstrate that it can be reasonably expected to fulfil its fixtures for the following season, have failed to file accounts and so on and so forth — all of which are grounds for refusing a licence in terms of the rules.
So to say that you cannot refuse a licence because the club has no bank debt is absolute rubbish– unqualified, unmitigated complete and utter tosh.
Anyone want to ask Mr Graham if he wishes to reveal his source or alternatively suggest that he go back and ask the question about licensing again?
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Night Terror says:
April 29, 2014 at 9:35 am
I was very much in the middle of the United stand behind the goal NT but there was an undercurrent of malevolence during and after the game.
Of course singing about Zombies and “you’re not Rangers any more” while typical of the winding up that is a regular feature of football, also strikes a raw nerve that goes to the very heart of this whole fiasco, the lie most see that enabled the miraculous continuation of a club that was liquidated versus a perception that we were kicked when we were down at odds with any rational analysis. Instead of the wound being cleansed by natural re-birth it was poisoned by an artificial attempt at life re-creation evocative of the fevered imaginings of a 19th century gothic novelist.
so to sum up
no bank debt – licence issued.
some bank debt – licence issued.
lots of bank debt – licence issued.
Night Terror says:
April 29, 2014 at 9:33 am
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Cracking quote in The Telegraph:
However, the Scottish Football Association will issue a licence to Rangers for next season in spite of the continuing uncertainty surrounding the financially challenged club. “The licence will be granted because Rangers have no bank debt,” a spokesman said. “We are unable to withhold that licence on the basis of what might happen to individual members.”
If that is genuinely true, their licensing regulations are a crock.
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The spokesman for the SFA clearly doesn’t know what he is talking about, This is from the SFA’s own website, and sets out the terms for the issue of a licence,
“Where the auditor’s report in respect of the annual financial statements includes an adverse or disclaimer of opinion, a club may meet the terms of the Entry criterion provided that it meets certain
conditions as set out by the Licensing Committee, at its discretion, from time to time”
That is for an Entry Level license, the absolute rock bottom in the pantheon of Gold, Silver, Platignum levels.
I assume that by now the SFA have a copy of the TRFC accounts to 30 June 2013, including a heavily qualified auditor’s opinion. In these circumstances, an Entry licence MAY be granted, but the licensing committee can impose conditions on the grant of a license. Of course the wording clearly indicates that they do not have to grant a license, they may, or equally may not grant a license. It is perhaps worth mentioning that a club with a qualified audit certificate cannot meet the requirements of a precious metal level license, and there appears to be no discretion available- here is the wording for Bronze
“The auditor’s report in respect of the annual financial statements shall not include an adverse or disclaimer of opinion.”
No wriggle room there, then, which was clearly an oversight, since the SFA do like every rule to be subject to “discretion”. It will be interesting to learn in due course whether TRFC have been granted a license, at what level, and whether any conditions are attached.
One would have to assume that the business plan within the 127 Day Review takes into account the UEFA FFP rules when it targets European football?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27041079
Taysider,
Correct. And having a most enjoyable day out in March at Celtic Park for the league cup final where family fan mingling was the order of the day (can’t comment on the other scottish cup semi as had to attend a family wedding – just as well as it turned out! :oops:) proves that the quote that I chose was a simple crock of sh!t! (And yes each and every club does also have numpties ya de ya…..)
neepheid says:
April 29, 2014 at 10:03 am
Good spot. That will indeed be very interesting. What do you lose by only having an Entry Level licence rather than those precious metal awarded licences?
I’ve got no bank debt, so presumably I could get a license to operate a football club that consumes 70 million quid in 18 months.
NT.
Gold. And No. Just because!
Most football clubs will have bank debt thru the season, it’s called an overdraft and helps smooth out the peaks and troughs of football cashflow…
It’s been a long time since my one post ( I forgot my password).
Phils tweet last night regarding Mr Hector returning to Govan got me thinking, is it possible that the reason wages etc have been paid is because Vat, PAYE, NI contributions etc have not been made?
They wouldn’t be that stupid to copy the old club, would they??
Y4rmy
I’ve got a perfectly legitimate fully secured £70million pound overdraft limit currently undrawn. Presumably I couldn’t!?!
Call me nae idea
If I was Hector and I have been made aware through various anonymous internet based sources that a recent troublesome file had only just made his April payroll I would be watching for the relevant additional NI and PAYE arriving on his desk pretty closely, wouldn’t you? Watching brief only at the moment, mind!
Lads, I mentioned I was employed by a Credit Card acquirer, which is true, but there may be a less obvious but equally damning reason why TRFC have failed to keep CC facilities, and it is, the solutions currently run by TRFC, Celtic and most other clubs is a VERY OLD now defunct solution that is non PCI (payment card Industry) compliant, ergo First Data may have said “update your solution as we have to switch off this old one”. The charges this would have been incurred by TRFC could have been enough to tip the balance…..would that kind of bill snookered TRFC in January?
I won’t name figures….but suffice to say a good yearly salary would be involved….not average but GOOD.
So an un-named source at the SFA is suggesting (spinning) to the media that a license has to be granted as there is no bank debt….
Plus ca change eh?
Whether or not that is the actual SFA position (unamed source could be the writer’s own imaginary pal), clearly there is an information war afoot…
If left unchecked, we can obviously expect the SFA to proceeed as normal and allow the Sevco omnishambles to chunter on towards MkII oblivion, with the rest of Scottish Football left to pick up the pieces when it all goes belly up (presumably including finding a spot for GersVers3 somewhere).
It is time to get on to the rest of Scottish Football and remind them that sporting integrity is the basis of their product – without sporting integrity they have no fans and no future.
The SPFL has also confirmed that it would consider a repeat of the administration (and subsequent liquidation) which befell Craig Whyte’s Rangers as a second offence.
That suggests that they consider it a 2nd offense even thought hey are different, is it because they are the PretendyGers?
So a club (any club not just RFC) can have creditors chasing them for money that they have no likelihood of paying but as long as they don’t actually owe anything to a bank it’s ok? The very fact that a bank won’t give you credit should be enough of a reason to withhold a licence – unless of course you can show that there are sufficient funds available to get you through the season – it shouldn’t be taken as a sign of financial robustness.
If this is true then we are well and truly part of a madhouse.
indy14 says:
April 29, 2014 at 10:32 am
The SPFL has also confirmed that it would consider a repeat of the administration (and subsequent liquidation) which befell Craig Whyte’s Rangers as a second offence.
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If this is genuinely attributable to the SPFL then it is price sensitve information when coupled with the comments by SE last week about the fragility of TRFC finances
It is also information no self respecting trade association would spontaneously reveal about one of its members
Unless
The SPFL have been tipped off about an Admin announcement this Friday
And if that is the case we can draw 2 conclusions
1. The SPFL Board have deliberately chosen to favour Spiv Shareholders over fan shareholders by cooperating in the Spiv PR campaign
2 The SPFL Board could be accused of encouraging short selling of TRFC shares before an Admin announcement this Friday
The Guardian @guardian 1h
Serco slumps 18% after profit warning and talk of £500m fundraising http://gu.com/p/3znc9/tw @BusinessDesk
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Took me a few seconds to realise this had nothing to do with Rangers
GoosyGoosy says:
April 29, 2014 at 11:08 am
Whoah there, GG. When the sport’s administrators have to decline to give an honest opinion on the consequences of insolvency because of the share price of one of their members who chose to float on the stock market, we’ve got a problem.
You want the SPFL to keep quiet on possible consequences for The Ibrox Club, but it would be OK to speak on teh same circumstances for a club that isn’t publicly quoted on a stock exchange?
BROGANROGANTREVINOANDHOGAN says:
April 29, 2014 at 9:40 am
Anyone want to ask Mr Graham if he wishes to reveal his source or alternatively suggest that he go back and ask the question about licensing again?
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When I first read the piece, my immediate thought was this:
Why ask about the licence criteria but not the penalty?
There is a quote from the source about the licence requirement but no quote about the 15 or 25-point penalty. For me, this piece was about attempting to confuse the reader about the penalty. By quoting a source at The SFA about licensing but then adding in the 25 points, it implies that the source also confirmed this.
5-Whys…. Keep asking why, you will eventually reach the root cause….
Paulmac2 says: April 29, 2014 at 12:26 am
‘King reckons that cash will fund a team that can stop Celtic’s 10 in a row and do well in Europe’
Is that really what worries him….forget (everything) ….lets just worry what Celtic are doing…
It’s also what obviously motivated the previous Chief Exec & board – after all the £2m on wi-fi and replacement jumbo screens were an attempt to keep up with the Joneses in the East End…
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-dave-king-dodgy-past-and-all-arrives-with-more-bluster.1398767398
Spiers off King’s Christmas card list
Decent articles by both Ewing Grahame and Graham Spiers I’d say. I don’t expect any one journalist to ask all of the questions or cover all the angles at one go, but it was good to see signs of healthy scepticism, and an understanding that the people referred to in the articles might just be pursuing some kind of agenda. Lots more of this please!
I was interested to hear the comments watching the rangers game at the weekend… Ally will be looking to beat Martin O’Neil’s points haul of 103… Can that comparison really be made????
JimBhoy says:
April 29, 2014 at 12:44 pm
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No it can’t….MON never managed in the lower divisions…
It is this continuing pathetic attempt by the SMSM to tag Ally and SEVCO alongside Celtic at every opportunity….it is an on going practice that attempts to keep them relevant…and attached to the top division?
They have become an irrelevance to Scottish Football….but the Scottish media need them for employment purposes.
JimBhoy says:
April 29, 2014 at 12:44 pm
I was interested to hear the comments watching the rangers game at the weekend… Ally will be looking to beat Martin O’Neil’s points haul of 103… Can that comparison really be made????
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Any comparison can be made; it is upto the user of that comparison to decide if it is relevant to them. The supporters of Celtic may point to the fact they are competing in two different leagues in two different eras and the Rangers supporters may point to the fact it is relative and a record is a record.
I would never compare an apple with an orange but it terms of them both being fruits, you can compare the taste or nutritional value. If however the purpose of the comparison is to determine which one is best for making cider, then a comparative analysis on the nutritional values is largely irrelevant.
We are talking about football fans and bragging rights are a big part of the package so I do not have a problem with anyone pointing to a positive, especially in times when positive news is hard to come by.