Podcast Episode 3 – David Low

ByTrisidium

Podcast Episode 3 – David Low

davidLowDavid Low

represents a highly significant component of the history of Celtic FC and consequently a highly significant component of how Scottish Football has panned out in the last 20 years.

As Fergus McCann’s Aide-de-Camp, Low was instrumental in helping him formulate and implement the plans which ultimately allowed control of the club to be wrested from the Kelly and White families. Low also helped McCann to rebuild and regenerate Celtic as a modern football club.

His views are unsurprisingly Celtic-centred, and this interview reveals his ambition for the club to ultimately leave Scottish Football behind. That may or may not be at odds with many of our readers, but the stark analysis of the realities facing football in this country may resonate.

Podcast LogoHe provides a window on the pragmatism of the likes of McCann, Celtic and many other clubs in respect of the demise of Rangers. He pours scorn on Dave King’s vision of a cash-rich Rangers future, and provides little comfort for those who seek succour for our failing national sport, believing that Scotland will find it impossible to emerge from the football backwater in an increasingly global industry.

Agree or not with Low’s prognosis, it is difficult to deny his compelling analysis of our place in the football world.

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About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,066 Comments so far

SmugasPosted on5:25 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Please tell me to spot that I’ve got two point 3’s before I see the following message

“You cannot edit a comment after other comments have been posted. ”

Aaaarrgghhh

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ZilchPosted on5:29 pm - Apr 30, 2014


On LNS…

Not having any sort of legal background, it has been edumacational following the analysis of the LNS findings and the shenanigans that lead to those findings.

Yet I cannot help but feel that I expected better from our learned friend, perhaps unfairly.

Here is one of the most experienced judges our nation can produce apparently being boxed into a corner by the manner of the HM term-setting and by the Bryson defence (up there with the Chewbacca defence).

Really??

The mental gymnastics required to produce his findings leave only a very little room to suppose that he was not aware that the process had been carefully constructed to produce a particular outcome.

If LNS did not realise he was being manipulated, then that is a disappointment.

If he did realise that he was being manipulated and was simply prepared to play along in return for the pay cheque – well that is more disappointing still.

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paulsatimPosted on5:30 pm - Apr 30, 2014


JimBhoy says:
April 30, 2014 at 5:18 pm

Not many of the SMSM on twitter either!

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y4rmyPosted on5:44 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Just having a look through the SPFL regulations (like you do) and picked up a couple of points.

First, by definition, the play-offs for the Championship, L1 and L2 are all played in the close season:

Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;

Close Season means the period of the year outside the Season;

League Match means a match designated as such by the Company and played in the League;

Play-Off Match means a match played in a Play-Off Competition;

Therefore the season ends on Saturday and if TRFC wish to take a points penalty this season and avoid one next, they must enter administration this week and exit it before the first game is played in the Championship in August (or whenever). A tall order.

Second, if TRFC enter administration, they could possibly appeal the points deduction on the basis of Force Majeure.

E8 A Club may appeal against a deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E6 (inclusive) on the grounds that:

E8.3 the Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process, which gave rise to such points deduction, arose as a result of a Force Majeure Event.

The Force Majeure event being of course would be the ST boycott instigated by Dave King. I can only wonder if such a defence would fall upon sympathetic ears.

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scapaflowPosted on5:45 pm - Apr 30, 2014


“Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 24s
STV understands the SPFL will take no action against Kilmarnock after finding no evidence on signature forgery claims http://bit.ly/dslPvw

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on5:46 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 1m

STV understands the SPFL will take no action against Kilmarnock after finding no evidence on signature forgery claims

Helped to deflect from the Sevco troubles though!

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sickofitallPosted on5:57 pm - Apr 30, 2014


I understand that some major RIFC shareholders are so miffed with Mr David Cunningham King that they have reported him to the AIM.
3:52pm – 30 Apr 14

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100BJDPosted on6:01 pm - Apr 30, 2014


• REDLICHTIE says:
April 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm

From Companies House this morning as others have noted :
SOAS(A) 29/04/2014 VOLUNTARY STRIKE OFF SUSPENDED
GAZ1(A) 04/03/2014 FIRST GAZETTE NOTICE FOR VOLUNTARY STRIKE-OFF
AR01 19/02/2014 17/02/14 FULL LIST
19/02/2014 19/02/14 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL;GBP 1
DS01 18/02/2014 APPLICATION FOR STRIKING-OFF
TM01 14/02/2014 APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR LAW FINANCIAL LIMITED
TM01 14/02/2014 APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR CRAIG WHYTE
TM01 14/02/2014 APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR AIDAN EARLEY
AP01 13/02/2014 DIRECTOR APPOINTED MR CHARLES ALEXANDER GREEN
On 24 April 2014 RIFC issued a statement to the London Stock Exchange (http://rangers.g3dhosting.com/regulatory_news_article/301) that included this text :
“In view of recent media speculation, the company wishes to clarify that Sevco 5088 is not an active subsidiary of the Rangers International Football Club plc. It is and has been a defunct non trading company over which termination proceedings began last year and which would have been struck off by the Registrar of Companies had false claims of directorships not been filed recently at Companies House. Sevco 5088 was listed in the company’s announcement dated 22 April 2013 to comply with the AIM Rules for Companies requiring disclosure of directorships held by the directors of the company both currently and during the preceding 5 years. Sevco 5088 was not the acquisition vehicle which purchased the assets of Rangers Football Club.”

————————————————————————————————————————————–

I am very busy at present although still lurking when possible. I found the above statement quite interesting. “The company wishes to clarify that Sevco 5088 is not an active subsidiary of RIFC”……well maybe they should define active as they claimed it as a subsidiary in an RNS 8444c dated 22nd April 2013…….ah wait they have defined it! “ It is and has been a defunct non trading company”…..so this means that the company was at some time according to a Rangers RNS a subsidiary although now it is described as defunct and non trading that it has suddenly never been anything to do with Rangers. Non trading subsidiaries are completely normal in many companies. I will let Wikopedia describe defunct companies -:
“This category is for companies that were once significant, but are now defunct, which means they no longer exist”
The point here of course is that Sevco 5088 still exists and cannot be described as defunct, no matter how much RIFC would wish.
So well done to RIFCfor clarifying the Sevco 5088 situation………..NOT! What a performance from their advisors.

RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
22 Apr 2013 07:00:10
Rangers Int F.C. PLC
RNS Number : 8444C
Rangers Int. Football Club PLC
22 April 2013

22 April 2013

Rangers International Football Club plc
(“Rangers” or the “Company”)

Director Declaration

In accordance with AIM Rule 17 and further to the Company’s admission document dated 7 December 2012, the Company confirms that in addition to the directorships disclosed in the admission document, Charles Green and Brian Stockbridge held directorships in the following companies, each of which is a subsidiary of the Company, at the time of publication of the document:

Charles Green
Rangers Retail Limited
SEVCO 5088 Limited
The Rangers Football Club Limited
Rangers Financial Services Limited
Rangers Matchday Services Limited
Rangers Media Investments Limited
Rangers Youth Development Limited

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on6:02 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Phil’s latest tweet:

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 2m

An excellent source inside Stalag Sevco just painted a picture of utter chaos when asked by me to describe the current state of play.

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AuldheidPosted on6:06 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Neepheid
I think it will be the points deduction issue but I suspect that SFA will want to avoid another non punishment punishment by having it apply only to this season.

The moral hazard of doing so is writ so large that even the unethical cannot avoid it’s gaze.

There must be some discretionary power in their rules for doing the right thing rather than justify doing the wrong thing.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on6:08 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Frantic discussions with the SFA?
What could that all be about?
It can only be RIFC playing their last card
i.e
Intimating their intention to go direct to Liquidation this week instead of Administration on 16 May?
That would put the SFA in a right tizzy
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Mmmmm…
What would the SFA give up in exchange for TRFC fulfilling its last fixture?
Not a lot really
Maybe
A written promise that whoever buys the assets next time round will definitely get “Fit and Proper Person” status This adds value to the owner of the assets but doesn`t stop Admin
Or maybe
A written promise of recognition that the assets belong to RIFC and not the ethereal “club”
Or even
A written promise that only the newco Rangers playing out of Ibrox will be viewed by the SFA as the holders of the TRFC2 name and history
And even
A written promise to allow Ibrox to stage
semi finals for the next 5 yrs
And
A grant to upgrade Ibrox

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on6:09 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 20s

Some huge news coming up from @STVRaman regarding the Scottish national team. Get your TV on or stay glued to Twitter…

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AuldheidPosted on6:12 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Homemadesoup

So everything else is ignored?

The guy has to get support on his side so a bit of latitude whilst he builds that is maybe in order.

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on6:17 pm - Apr 30, 2014


A big build up.
Scotland v England
probably 18th November
probably Celtic Park.

That’s it.

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Night TerrorPosted on6:22 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Auldheid says:

There must be some discretionary power in their rules for doing the right thing rather than justify doing the wrong thing.

As there seems to be an “at our discretion” clause beneath, and undermining pretty much every detailed SFA rule, one would hope so.

Despair that they won’t or hope that they do, eh?

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upthehoopsPosted on6:32 pm - Apr 30, 2014


paulsatim says:
April 30, 2014 at 4:17 pm
16 0 Rate This

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 7m
From an excellent source: Communications between Graham Wallace and the SFA are “frantic”.

P.I. Paul ‏@MTHForum 3m
I was told today might have been an announcement about Admin, now hearing the SFA are trying to stop it from happening, how? I dunno
==============================================
What defines ‘the SFA’ in this situation. Does it mean they are discussing with Regan and Ogilvie only, or are others involved as well?

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buckfastswallierPosted on6:43 pm - Apr 30, 2014


The SFA haven’t changed, they are a collective of blazers dining out every week on Scottish Football Fans money, they believe they know what’s best for Scottish Football, Gin filled well connected upper class tossers, more interested in making business contacts than seeing schools get fitbas and cones.

Kick up a stink with yer local MSP and ask for no cash to be given the SFA from government funds until. Ogilvie is removed from post.

£3 a month, mon!

A.

Please leave gin out of this. I am a proper working class aficionado of that spirit.

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scottcPosted on6:55 pm - Apr 30, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
April 30, 2014 at 6:17 pm
1 0 Rate This

A big build up.
Scotland v England
probably 18th November
probably Celtic Park.

That’s it.

@STVGrant must lead a very sheltered life if that passes as ‘huge news’ for him

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scapaflowPosted on7:02 pm - Apr 30, 2014


buckfastswallier says:
April 30, 2014 at 6:43 pm

Whilst my contempt for SFA boards past and present is limitless, I do recognise that at the cones and footballs level the SFA does a good job, probably in spite of the bums in the boardroom, rather than because of them :mrgreen:

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hamemadesoupPosted on7:03 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Auldheid says:
April 30, 2014 at 6:12 pm
0 0 Rate This

Homemadesoup

So everything else is ignored?

The guy has to get support on his side so a bit of latitude whilst he builds that is maybe in order.

——————————————
He would have had my full support , had he mentioned it , even once . I’m too long in the tooth to accept cherrypicking as journalism .
Considering the events of said night , he has done a magnificent job of dancing round the topic . Mind you , that’s nothing unusual .

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Danish PastryPosted on7:09 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
April 30, 2014 at 4:32 pm
1 0

The underlying principle that makes it all work though – in whatever embodiment it were to be adopted – is that it is the geographic location of the (potentially) relegated club that ultimately determines which of the champions has the chance (or certainty) of promotion, irrespective.
————————————————————————————————-

I’ve been following the league debate with interest and called the Danish League body that administers the nuts and bolts of the thing. There is a lot of regionalization here, not that Denmark is a big country (like Sweden or Norway), but there are islands, ferries and bridges to navigate.

I was also interested in the amount of promotion/relegation, particularly in the lower leagues.

If anyone is interested the basics are:

Superliga 12 teams / 2up/2down

Div 1 12 teams / 2up/2down

This is where it gets interesting and perhaps relevant:

Div 2 has an East and West section

East 16 teams / 1up/3down

West 16 teams / 1up/3down

So, two up from Division 2, 1 from each geographical region. Seems fair.

There is NO Div 3, instead three are three regional pools of 14 called ‘Danmarkserien’. Two from each pool will gain promotion, which means 3 each for Div 2 East/West. (*My local team is currently 4th in Pool 1 and are 7 points from a promotion place. Not bad for a newly promoted side.).

More leagues below, but the above are the main leagues, with quite a regional emphasis lower down, and a nice healthy 6 out / 6 in for Div 2 which certainly refreshes the leagues east and west.

* I also asked (helpful chap called Jesper) about any new inter-nation leagues, but he’d not heard of any plans for an upcoming North Sea League.

This concludes the voting of the Danish jury 🙂

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SmugasPosted on7:12 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Thinking tangentially, as you do. What if the rangers game is postponed on Saturday?

Scottish football needs dry weather over East End park.

It looks increasingly like they banked on ST funds just to see them through May! Or a cup final!

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scottcPosted on7:20 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Smugas says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:12 pm
0 0 Rate This

Thinking tangentially, as you do. What if the rangers game is postponed on Saturday?

Scottish football needs dry weather over East End park.

It looks increasingly like they banked on ST funds just to see them through May! Or a cup final!

I wonder if the league have already paid out their prize money for winning? There is certainly precedent for that; Gretna was it, were paid out so that they would make the end of the season and did I not read a couple of weeks ago that Hearts had had their prize money paid out this year?

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neepheidPosted on7:25 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Smugas says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:12 pm

It looks increasingly like they banked on ST funds just to see them through May! Or a cup final!

============================
If they really have taken punters money in advance while having a plan to pull the plug before next season is complete, then they really need to be sure that there is no paper trail or audio clips, and that every single person in the loop can be trusted. Because that really would be straying into dangerous legal territory. My problem would be that I wouldn’t trust any of them.

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valentinesclownPosted on7:28 pm - Apr 30, 2014


http://t.co/Zfj5JAVps1
http://t.co/Zfj5JAVps1

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valentinesclownPosted on7:29 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Ally McCoist: The man who led the charge on the £67m? http://bit.ly/1iDlHLM

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upthehoopsPosted on7:29 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Can anyone help me regarding SFA Article 10.

Does the role Dermot Desmond is in at Celtic, i.e N.E.D of the PLC Board, require to pass the requirements of Article 10? A number of media commentators seem to believe it is possible for Dave King to take up the same role at Rangers and escape the requirements of the ruling.

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sumproductPosted on7:33 pm - Apr 30, 2014


I may be late to the party on this one, but I note Worthington Group recently made an announcement to the stock market celebrating 60 years as a listed company, albeit currently suspended from trading having yet to file annual accounts.

Fear not, says Worthington Group. Audited accounts for the 2013 year to September 30 will be posted soon, along with interim accounts to March 31, 2014.

Shares are also expected to be reinstated soon, and discussions with the trustees of the Jerome Pension Fund (hello stranger!) and the Pensions Regulator are reported to have been “constructive” with regards to addressing its own pension deficit.

What’s really interesting is the note ‘about Worthington Group’ at the foot of the announcement. It says “extraordinary returns are to be had “expanding its high return litigation portfolio and acquiring tangible assets in areas of the world that are currently out of favour”.

It’s adds that by offering to “purchase these assets in exchange for its (cough) London Stock Exchange fully listed sterling paper.. Temporary illiquid assets can be acquired for a fraction of their face value or ultimate worth once conditions improve”.

http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/rns/140411wrn6705e

Sorry if this has already been covered, but this will put a jet pack on bonkers when this turd starts rolling.

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beanosPosted on7:59 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Sumproduct, thanks for pointing that one out. Worthington and paticularly the Jerome Group pension scheme are an area of fascination to me. The scheme was in deficit enough even before the ill advised ‘investment’ in a football club. Would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the dicussions with the trustees and the regulator. The trustees have some serious questions to answer.

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John ClarkPosted on8:02 pm - Apr 30, 2014


upthehoops says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:29 pm
‘Does the role Dermot Desmond is in at Celtic, i.e N.E.D of the PLC Board, require to pass the requirements of Article 10? A number of media commentators seem to believe it is possible for Dave King to take up the same role at Rangers and escape the requirements of the ruling.’
—————-
Looks to me that they’re flying a kite in hope rather than expectation
” The role of the non-executive director has been firmly embedded in the UK corporate landscape for decades however, there is no legal distinction between executive directors and non-executive directors. The new Companies Act 2006 does not recognise the term ‘non-executive’, just as the previus Companies Act 1985 did not. Both executive and nonexecutive directors are subject to the same responsibilities and liabilities. Shadow Directors (persons who broadly occupy the role of a director without being registered as such at Companies House), are also directors or for the purposes of the Companies Act 2006. ”

And Art 10 of the SFA Articles makes no distinction between non-exec and exec directors! So, no go for King as a non-exec.

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John ClarkPosted on8:11 pm - Apr 30, 2014


And did anybody else here Michael Johnston of Kilmarnock going on about ‘our Keef’ embellishing the story of the ‘forged’ papers at Kilmarnock? More or less called him out for making stories up.
(My trouble these days, of course, is that I find it difficult just to accept the ‘findings’ of any enquiry by the Football authorities into any matter. I believe they would lie where necessary.
that is the damage they have done to their credibility) But I am happy to accept that Johnston’s acceptance of the results of the enquiry is genuine, and I’m glad for Kilmarnock.
But KJ? How does his mind work-and what kind of editorial control does he work under?

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TailothebankPosted on8:14 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Forget 15 or 25 points and any related so called rules
I made this point last week ..as did James Forrest subsequently in one of his blogs ..another poster did so too …even God bless him KJ mentioned the immorality of it on BBC the other evenings
The SFA just can’t let Rangers be promoted if they go into admin before the beginning of next season
..The SFA as we have seen have ultimate discretion on anything and frankly should , and i suspect and hope , will have a complete mutiny on their hands from the rest of Scottish football fans and clubs if they allow Rangers to proceed promoted to the championship

It won’t be but it should be what SR CO et al should be cr#####g themselves about now in their deliberations with Mr Wallace

Allowing any club to have clearly cheated their competition by spending what they simply don’t have ..eg Mar Hall stayovers pre home games etcetc and win the competition gain prizes ad promotion etc will be Scottish football adminstration’s darkest hour outranking even given all that has gone on

They have to stand up to this club ..frankly they should suspend their license tell them to take at least a year out to sort out their mess..and come back with a full and comprehensive ‘what went wrong ? ‘ with their original CG plan and then in order to get their license back demand they present a new viable plan when they sort themselves out.
The SFA should also incidentally right now bar W Smith and M Murray as never being fit to be directors in a football club ever again for incompetency in having overseen this shambles as Chairmen.
I wait with baited breath as the opposite is probably happening .

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upthehoopsPosted on8:49 pm - Apr 30, 2014


John Clark says:
April 30, 2014 at 8:02 pm
========================
Thanks John. I have a very specific reason for asking this, which I won’t go into. I have e-mailed the SFA tonight very simply asking for clarification that Article 10 applies to N.E.D’s.

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sickofitallPosted on8:55 pm - Apr 30, 2014


I’m told that not only will Sevco have to meet payroll in May, but that they will also have to pay bonuses.
Perhaps the SMSM check it out…
8:42pm – 30 Apr 14

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John ClarkPosted on9:10 pm - Apr 30, 2014


McKillop in his article says:
.
‘Perhaps some level-headed Celtic fans should examine exactly what this behaviour is achieving and how compatible it is with the club’s much publicised charitable ethos.’
———
It is not the function of ‘Charity’ to ignore Truth and Justice.
Let McKillop direct his censorious observations about fans to the real baddies in Scottish Football, who have lied and cheated and whose lies and cheating have been steadfastly ignored by other cheats and distorters of the truth.
When he has excoriated them to the point where they acknowledge their wrongdoing and make amends, let him then encourage folk to be ‘charitable’.
.

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scottcPosted on9:17 pm - Apr 30, 2014


sickofitall says:
April 30, 2014 at 8:55 pm
2 1 Rate This

I’m told that not only will Sevco have to meet payroll in May, but that they will also have to pay bonuses.
Perhaps the SMSM check it out…
8:42pm – 30 Apr 14

From Phil MacG, I assume?

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jean7brodiePosted on9:26 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Let McKillop check out Corsica1968 re charity.

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CampbellsmoneyPosted on9:27 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Jimmyczz

It is not a criminal offence to trade while insolvent.

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AllyjamboPosted on9:39 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:04 am

‘Before we entered administration’.
____________________________________

This is something I’ve been musing over while spending a few hours doing catch up. How often have we read or heard something like this in the past 2 years?

‘When the club came out of administration.’

Well, I’d like to know; if ‘the club’ was not absolutely linked to/was not ‘the company’ how on earth did the club ever enter administration in the first place? If the cub is separate from the company, it could no more enter administration than the shareholders could, or the players, or the supporters. I suppose the next step is for the MSM to start saying the ‘club’ never actually entered administration.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:52 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Zilch says:
April 30, 2014 at 5:29 pm

On LNS…

Not having any sort of legal background, it has been edumacational following the analysis of the LNS findings and the shenanigans that lead to those findings. Yet I cannot help but feel that I expected better from our learned friend, perhaps unfairly.
=======================================
You seem to forget that LNS didn’t make the decision on his own – there were three members of the tribunal – all eminently qualified who came to a unanimous decision. I have yet to see anyone advance a legally credible counter argument to that decision given the tribunal’s terms of reference and the evidence presented to it..

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easyJamboPosted on10:05 pm - Apr 30, 2014


The U20 league is shaping up for a tense finish with Rangers two points ahead of Hibs and Celtic after this week’s games. Hibs have completed their programme, but both Rangers and Celtic have two games left, including one Celtic v Rangers game, which means both clubs still have their destiny in their own hands.

I only mention this because of the trouble at the U17 game the other night. Fortunately the game is being played behind closed doors at Lennoxtown next Tuesday at the request of the police, so the risk of further problems should be minimised. (it’s Rangers final game and Celtic’s penultimate game)

However at some point in the future both clubs will have to face up to the prospect of facing one another at a senior level, (perish the thought). My question is how should it be policed? Should there be a police enforced restricted capacity wherever it is played? A massive police and security presence? And who pays? The clubs are responsible for police costs within the ground, but do they pay for additional policing costs outside the ground?

Any other ideas?

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Galling fiverPosted on10:24 pm - Apr 30, 2014


And on the subject of charity, has any of those earnings :mrgreen: turned up in the accounts. Well… they bleat on about the ebts being in there, making them legit why not stick it in, under gifts 😆 like investment eh DJ?
Fine point made earlier, the cardigans performance in the boardroom, minty and the salaried one, all Olympic medal jersey sellers. It’ll be awe over the papers, one day 😆 😆 .

James Forrest and Phil’s articles were spot on, from guys not afraid to point the finger at their own, even the much demonised green brigade do it, you’ll not see that at the the rangers standard or club, how’s that ?

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John ClarkPosted on10:30 pm - Apr 30, 2014


scapaflow says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:02 pm
‘…I do recognise that at the cones and footballs level the SFA does a good job, ‘
———–
I think they do an astonishingly good job. Just as the majority of workers do, including the ordinary non-footballing workers at Ibrox ( the ones about to be made cruelly redundant) regardless of their directors or senior officers.
But sooner or later, as at Ibrox, the deficiencies of the senior people begin to cause serious problems. Doubt, uncertainty, policy contradictions, factionalism and private scorn all begin to sap away at morale and sense of purpose.
What must a Boardroom meeting at Hampden be like? Any pair of eyes looking anything other than shifty, guilty? Or , perhaps, one pair staring, self-righteously defiant and challenging in their aggression and menace? Or flickering with fear , while their owner, as he backs away from the sixth floor windows ( Prague, defenestration, no? 🙂 ) reminds others that if he goes, they all go?

(

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on10:30 pm - Apr 30, 2014


easyJambo says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:05 pm

0

0

Rate This

However at some point in the future both clubs will have to face up to the prospect of facing one another at a senior level, (perish the thought).

_____________________________________________________

Wouldn’t be sorry if it never happened. And I still think it presumptious of people to assume that it will.

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Paulmac2Posted on10:37 pm - Apr 30, 2014


paulsatim says:
April 30, 2014 at 4:17 pm

I was told today might have been an announcement about Admin, now hearing the SFA are trying to stop it from happening, how? I dunno
…….

I’m sure you would do everything you could to stop the team you support from going into Admin 😉 ….then there is the licence for next season…then there is the dilemma of 15 points or 25?…

If we follow what some might have us believe…15 points mean it’s a first admin…which would be correct for SEVCO who was given entry into The SPFL…division 3….and have never been in admin…25 points would mean it is the second time that the same Company has faced administration which SEVCO haven’t….and as we are being told the club and Company are seperate entities…with the club having no fiscal mechanics what so ever in terms of costs, revenues or debts….then how can the SFA punish a Company for a second offence when they haven’t committed a first?…15 points it is then…but wait…SEVCO want the 25 point penalty to keep the illusion going its the same club?….but its not the club who who will be going into administration…is it?

Oh the tangled web the SFA have woven!

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John ClarkPosted on10:41 pm - Apr 30, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
April 30, 2014 at 2:19 pm
‘ to be released to you when I receive the ownership papers for TSFM.’
———
I’ve only just read this, and damn near spluttered and spilt my Wednesday night we hauf all over the keyboard in mirth.Great. 😆

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ZilchPosted on10:41 pm - Apr 30, 2014


ecobhoy says:
April 30, 2014 at 9:52 pm
You seem to forget that LNS didn’t make the decision on his own – there were three members of the tribunal – all eminently qualified who came to a unanimous decision. I have yet to see anyone advance a legally credible counter argument to that decision given the tribunal’s terms of reference and the evidence presented to it..
——————————————————————————————————————————————————

Fair point about it being a three-member panel, but I am fairly sure I am not the first person to have focused on the learned judge’s role given his high profile background.

On the second point about terms of reference and evidence presented:
(a) I am questioning his (and his colleague’s) judgement in accepting such tightly defined terms of reference – such an experienced man (group of men) might have been concerned by the time limit and questioned the rationale?
(b) The evidence provided was of such dubious quality in the case of e.g. Bryson, that one might have expected a more robust questioning of previous practise in the sport (e.g. expulsion from tournaments for missing signatures etc).

YMMV but I believe that LNS (and colleagues) come out of this tribunal with lessened reputations. Further collateral damage from the shambolic mishandling of the original liquidation situation by the football authorities.

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neepheidPosted on10:44 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:30 pm

easyJambo says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:05 pm

However at some point in the future both clubs will have to face up to the prospect of facing one another at a senior level, (perish the thought).

_____________________________________________________

Wouldn’t be sorry if it never happened. And I still think it presumptious of people to assume that it will.
=========
Sadly (for me, anyway) the message from the Celtic Board, via David Low on this podcast, is not only that it will happen, but that it must happen, and so I come to the conclusion that Celtic will do whatever it takes to make sure it happens as quickly as possible. Very, very sad.

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FansfavouritePosted on11:02 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Educational entertainment …subscribed ❗

Thanks to all – keep up the good work back to my daily lurk 🙂

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AllyjamboPosted on11:12 pm - Apr 30, 2014


scottc says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:20 pm

I believe Bryan Jackson has stated that he doesn’t want any prize money before it is due to Hearts though it has been requested, probably as a standby. I cannot categorically state it has not been handed over, though. You are, of course, correct in saying Gretna received early payment.

Bryan Jackson’s reasoning was that he didn’t want to use money before the club has been purchased by Ann Budge/FoH that would be better used afterwards. Compare and contrast with the spend today, sell shares later, strategy at Ibrox.

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John ClarkPosted on11:24 pm - Apr 30, 2014


Zilch says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:41 pm
‘…I believe that LNS (and colleagues) come out of this tribunal with lessened reputations.’
————
A private company, retaining him, brings to him a ‘disciplinary’ matter under its own rules. It then sabotages part of its own case. What is that to him? He will relate only to what is put before him, collect his fee or retain his ‘retainer’!.
And if he thinks that it does not give a business an advantage over its competitors to be able to buy, with money due to the taxman, a better quality material than its honest, tax-paying competitors can afford, well that must be because he does not know the relevant market, does not live in the real world.
Or takes the line of least resistance and makes sure he keeps his retainer by offering his own, ignorant opinion.
Why not? His former judicial peers will have nothing to say, his judgment will not be subject to questioning by a higher Court.
He smiles happily.Like the 5-way agreement chappies!
Only people like you and I raise an eyebrow. In what? -disappointment in the falling-off of high standards? or in sardonic contempt at the idea that the outcome would be anything other?

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ptd1978Posted on11:31 pm - Apr 30, 2014


The SPFL paying out to Rangers now is very different to the Gretna situation. Obviously there’s a similarity in that the payment is made to ensure fixtures are fulfilled, but Gretna got the smallest amount of prize money available. Rangers will have gotten the maximum amount for league one and even if they do complete their fixtures as a just about solvent entity, what happens if they are found to have been registering players incorrectly, or doing something else naughty between now and Saturday?
Even if there is just an accusation, for example some idiot making up stories about forged signatures without any facts to back it up (known in the industry as a “doing a keef” at the moment I believe). The SFA have an interest and can’t investigate impartially.
Rangers should have been given at most, the bottom placed team’s prize money in order to fulfil fixtures. Any more is reckless and would without doubt have been denied to any other team.

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AllyjamboPosted on12:04 am - May 1, 2014


ptd1978 says:
April 30, 2014 at 11:31 pm

“The SPFL paying out to Rangers now is very different to the Gretna situation.”
___________________________________________________

A very good point, and one that had escaped me until now. What more proof of ‘spending money you didn’t have to win a title’ could there be if the champions, by a country mile, have to request early payment of monies due to see them through the season? Regardless of the reasons for their situation, Gretna, and Hearts, have ended up bottom of the league for their overspend, while TRFC are rewarded with a trophy and promotion for theirs.

Since reading earlier of the SFA’s concerns and efforts to stop TRFC going into administration before the end of the season, I’ve been wondering if their greatest concern is that they, themselves, will be made to look so very foolish for allowing this to happen. To allow it to happen and, as someone else pointed out, to then find themselves in the position of handing out yet another meaningless punishment to a club from Ibrox. I wonder if they’ve dropped a hint that, in the circumstances, surely unforeseen in years gone by, that any penalty will count next season regardless of when any administration might happen. This not to punish TRFC (or even to administer justice) but merely to save the SFA/SPFL bodgers’ face!

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John ClarkPosted on12:21 am - May 1, 2014


easyJambo says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:05 pm
‘.. The clubs are responsible for police costs within the ground, but do they pay for additional policing costs outside the ground?.’
———–
If memory serves, ej, there was a move by Police Scotland a wee while ago to try to push for more of the cost of policing the public streets onto the clubs, on the grounds that the polis wouldn’t be needed if there were no games!
As they wouldn’t be needed if there was no traffic, no crime…..or of flattering photographs of ‘Police Scotland’s’ ( which, of course, is not their legal title, but some stupid egomaniac’s ‘with it’ kind of PR, nonsensical, crappy, undemocratic, self-inflating and grammatically meaningless slogan) finest chief officer, posing strikingly.
What an absolute a…….!

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John ClarkPosted on12:29 am - May 1, 2014


John Clark says:
April 30, 2014 at 11:24 pm
‘…Only people like you and I ….’
——
I cannot believe I typed that! I clearly didn’t spill too much of my wee hauf. It should of course be ‘only people like you and me.’ My apologies.

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AuldheidPosted on12:36 am - May 1, 2014


Homemadesoup
Jean Brodie

We observers have a choice. Focus on what is on offer or on what is not.

Work with what is there or what is not.

Encourage or criticise.

Prolong or end.

Our move.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:14 am - May 1, 2014


Allyjambo says:
April 30, 2014 at 11:12 pm

16

0

Rate This

scottc says:
April 30, 2014 at 7:20 pm

I believe Bryan Jackson has stated that he doesn’t want any prize money before it is due to Hearts though it has been requested, probably as a standby. I cannot categorically state it has not been handed over, though. You are, of course, correct in saying Gretna received early payment.

Bryan Jackson’s reasoning was that he didn’t want to use money before the club has been purchased by Ann Budge/FoH that would be better used afterwards. Compare and contrast with the spend today, sell shares later, strategy at Ibrox.

__________________________________________

Many people – PMG included – have hinted that there is a film to be had in the Rangers/TRFC story.
I disagree. There is not a film here.
What SDM, Mr Green, the SFA and their various minions have managed to construct – is – inpoint of fact- a bloody pantomime…ready scripted.
Complete with cast of villains, hero’s, ne’er do wells, infamy, good guys falling on hard times, evil appearing to triumph over good. Implausible plot lines. Suspended disbelief. Impossible outcomes. Jeering and cheering from the audience. Tragedy and comedy colliding with ‘av a banana’ trombone sound effects, and the inevitable audience conceit!

All we need is a few cases of overt ‘gender’-role swapping (although TRFCs performance against Raith might qualify here…but I digress!) and you have the complete package already! Its painful… and yet compelling!

Now by my watch, time should be fast approaching for the final scene, where the villains are openly unmasked – to the faux surprise of all the players – whence the heroes prevail and live happily ever after.

Hearts can take on the role of ‘buttons’ I think. Good guys.

…Alternatively, throw in a few blow up ladies (or inflatable :slamb: even) and we have the makings of a good Tom Sharpe novel.

What it isn’t is the makings of a professionally run sport.
Messrs Ogilvie, Regan?
The door is over there.

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hamemadesoupPosted on1:36 am - May 1, 2014


Auldheid says:
May 1, 2014 at 12:36 am
2 1 Rate This

Homemadesoup
Jean Brodie

We observers have a choice. Focus on what is on offer or on what is not.

Work with what is there or what is not.

Encourage or criticise.

Prolong or end.

Our move.
—————————————–
Our move ? No .

The next move is required by either the perpetrators or the governing bodies . The ideal statement from the SFA should be something along the lines of ……..

Singing of song X = Closed doors next home match .
Repeated singing of song X = Closed doors next 5 home matches .

This should apply to all “banned songs” , for all teams . You could , by this method ,eradicate it in one season . If you behave in an exclusionary manner , expect to be excluded . It’s well into the 21st century , enough is enough .

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ghirl1888Posted on5:14 am - May 1, 2014


Can anyone tell me where we are with the UTT at the moment. I’m not a regular poster on here but try and keep up to speed with all the fantastic work people on here are doing to stamp out the corruption in Scottish Football, although a lot I don’t understand 😳 . I have signed up to donate monthly and hope you all do too, don’t let the corruption spread!!

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cowanpetePosted on5:17 am - May 1, 2014


Re payment / donations for this site.
Someone mentioned yesterday that we should open up TSFM to advertising.
If it could be made as inobtrusive as “gmail” adverts (as an example) then I would have no problem with that.
I’ll continue to make (regular, small) donations via paypal but just wanted to say I’d be all for an ad-based site it that’s the way forward.

OK so football. Why the Chairmen of the 5 Bottom-6 clubs haven’t put in a joint letter to the SPFL asking for a quick resolution to the “Killie Fraud” issue I will never understand. It’s either a non-issue [in which case the SPFL says this] or it’s a real issue [in which the SPFL hands out a punishment]. Maybe the removal of points from Killie would kill the excitement [think attendances] currently at the bottom end of the table?

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Dinner KenPosted on6:22 am - May 1, 2014


Apologies if covered already, but does anyone have any idea of when we might expect the UTTT ruling? My breath has been baited for longer than is healthy for a man of my years.

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loamfeetPosted on6:30 am - May 1, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
May 1, 2014 at 1:14 am

Many people – PMG included – have hinted that there is a film to be had in the Rangers/TRFC story.

——————–

*Open on Ibrox stadium. Wallace stares through the slatted boardroom window. The sound of illusory title-bearing helicopters sounds in his head.*

Wallace: Ibrox. Shit. I’m still only in Ibrox. Every time I think I’m gonna wake up back in the City.

*Later. Green emerges, shaven headed, from the darkness.*

Green: Did they say why, Wallace, why they want to terminate my command?
Wallace: I was sent on a classified mission.
Green: It’s no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?
Wallace: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Green: Are my methods unsound?
Wallace: I don’t see any method at all.
Green: I expected someone like you. What did you expect? Are you an assassin?
Wallace: I’m an accountant.
Green: You’re neither. You’re an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

*Cue “This Is The End” by The Doors. Fade to black.*

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cowanpetePosted on7:20 am - May 1, 2014


Just reading about the NBA’s punishments in the LA Clippers affair.
Remind me, did the SFA or SPL punish Green for his “paki” statement?

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TartanwulverPosted on7:37 am - May 1, 2014


easyJambo says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:05 pm

…at some point in the future both clubs will have to face up to the prospect of facing one another at a senior level, (perish the thought). My question is how should it be policed?
——————————————–
You will recall that a couple of seasons back, the EPL suggested that they might play a few games each season abroad. So maybe that might be an option. A global TV audience watching the Celtic v Rangers game live from, say Krakatoa or Devil’s Island, Alaska or Vladivostok might give a pioneering edge to the presentation of Scottish football, and be more glamorous than the backdrop of an empty Scottish stadium

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SmugasPosted on8:14 am - May 1, 2014


Loamfeet

Brilliant. Parodying Apocalypse’s ventilator fan with the ghosts of helicopter Sundays past! Made my morning that has!

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:30 am - May 1, 2014


John Clark says:

May 1, 2014 at 12:29 am

John Clark says:
April 30, 2014 at 11:24 pm
‘…Only people like you and I ….’
——
I cannot believe I typed that! I clearly didn’t spill too much of my wee hauf. It should of course be ‘only people like you and me.’ My apologies.
==============================================================
JC(e)…if only the SMSM could “self-police” like you…there would be a lesser need for this site!

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JohnBhoyPosted on8:33 am - May 1, 2014


@loamfeet

A simpler synopsis:

Charlie: “I love the smell of napalm in the morning”.

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helpmaboabPosted on8:49 am - May 1, 2014


Resin_Lab_Dog at 1:14 am
What SDM, Mr Green, the SFA and their various minions have managed to construct – is – inpoint of fact- a bloody pantomime…ready scripted.
Complete with cast of villains, hero’s, ne’er do wells, infamy, good guys falling on hard times, evil appearing to triumph over good. Implausible plot lines. Suspended disbelief. Impossible outcomes. Jeering and cheering from the audience. Tragedy and comedy colliding with ‘av a banana’ trombone sound effects, and the inevitable audience conceit!
………………………………………
Brilliant! This is why I keep coming back for more. Serious debate sitting comfortably with side splitting humour.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:02 am - May 1, 2014


loamfeet says:
May 1, 2014 at 6:30 am
Resin_lab_dog says:
May 1, 2014 at 1:14 am

Many people – PMG included – have hinted that there is a film to be had in the Rangers/TRFC story.
——————————————-
Could I suggest a slight addition to your first par just to create some atmosphere: ‘*Open on Ibrox stadium. Wallace stares through the slatted boardroom window. The sound of illusory title-bearing helicopters sounds in his head intermingled with the strains of Zadoc the Priest constantly blaring from the stadium tannoys.*

And maybe at the end a shot of tumbleweed blowing across the pitch just before everything fades to complete and then utter blackness with only the Doors playing ‘This is the End’ fading away.

Perhaps the only credit that should roll on the screen is: ‘To all the people who made this film possible’ and remain there for a minute of hand-clapping to mark the end of the club’s journey which I’m sure the audience will accord respect by enthusiastically joining in.

Yip there’s most definitely a film in there and I bag being the ‘scout’ for all the exotic overseas locations that play such an important part in the unfolding Rangers Apocalypse.

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scottcPosted on9:18 am - May 1, 2014


cowanpete says:
May 1, 2014 at 5:17 am

OK so football. Why the Chairmen of the 5 Bottom-6 clubs haven’t put in a joint letter to the SPFL asking for a quick resolution to the “Killie Fraud” issue I will never understand. It’s either a non-issue [in which case the SPFL says this] or it’s a real issue [in which the SPFL hands out a punishment]. Maybe the removal of points from Killie would kill the excitement [think attendances] currently at the bottom end of the table?

Resolved yesterday, CP

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ecobhoyPosted on9:37 am - May 1, 2014


John Clark says:
April 30, 2014 at 11:24 pm
Zilch says:
April 30, 2014 at 10:41 pm

‘…I believe that LNS (and colleagues) come out of this tribunal with lessened reputations.’
————
A private company, retaining him, brings to him a ‘disciplinary’ matter under its own rules. It then sabotages part of its own case. What is that to him? He will relate only to what is put before him, collect his fee or retain his ‘retainer’!.
===============================
I totally agree, whether deserved or not, that most involved with this enquiry including the three tribunal members have suffered reputational damage.

What I don’t believe is that LNS and his two colleagues were aware at the time just how skilfully the deck had been rigged against them to prevent a more equitable decision.

I also don’t think that just a part of the case was ‘sabotaged’ but rather every critical element was engineered before the Commission even sat to ensure that the desired result was achieved by football authorities.

I just don’t accept that LNS and his colleagues in any way formed part of that deception but I may be wrong in that belief but as yet I have see no conclusive evidence, What might be the proof of the pudding is whether the likes of LNS ever undertakes another commission from our footballing authorities given the serious questions which remain unanswered from his last foray into the murky waters that surround and may yet engulf Hampden.

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pau1mart1nPosted on9:48 am - May 1, 2014


prequel “apocalypse then”
sequel “apocalypse forever”

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bluPosted on9:50 am - May 1, 2014


ghirl1888 says:
May 1, 2014 at 5:14

Dinner Ken says:
May 1, 2014 at 6:22 am
========================================
Re. UTT – we’re waiting – Murray Group Holdings Ltd is case FTC/15/2013 – see here for list of current cases: amhttp://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/tribunals/tax-and-chancery-upper-tribunal-/hearings-register.pdf. The time between the tribunals meeting and decisions being announced varies quite a bit.

If you haven’t already done so check on the excellent reports from John Clark and others in the UTT posts tab.

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Sugar DaddyPosted on10:05 am - May 1, 2014


That TRFC is running on fumes is undeniable. The fans are not buying season tickets, they have no banking credit facility, have mortgaged assets for Wonga rate loans, nor can they take card payments for goods. I have no problem with the SFA advancing prize money to help them keep going. It is just delaying the inevitable.

RIFC plc has the assets and the football licence but no money. Dave King has access to money although how much of his own he will actually “invest” is unknown.

DK is soon to find out whether the shareholders of RIFC plc care about football or not. I suspect he and a lot of TRFC fans are going to be in for a wee shock. Three letters will take on new meaning for many of them.

ROI.

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jean7brodiePosted on10:09 am - May 1, 2014


RABTDOG
I must have missed a chapter somewhere because I am not aware of ‘absolute declarations’ that all journalists are corrupt?

You didn’t Jean – and they are most definitely not.
TSFM

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