“Anyone read Michael Grant’s article in The Times? Only saw a pull-quote but the headline is about not everyone cheering for Celtic to European success since the financial windfall will put them too far ahead of the other clubs. It’s that old UEFA distribution thingy. Auldheid had a sensible alternative a while back.”
Thanks Danish Pastry for giving Big Pink the opportunity to nudge me (over a coffee I paid for – so how’s that for redistribution of income? 🙂 ) to blog again on the issue of redistribution of UEFA money whilst he was advocating gate sharing as an alternative.
I recall the redistribution debate being discussed on the first TSFM podcast Episode 1-01 of 9th Feb 2014 which can be found here:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football-monitor/id817766886?mt=2
Listening to it again (I used “View in I Tunes”) I heard many of the recent comments on the previous blog being made in that podcast at or around:
9.58: The interdependent nature of the business of football. Why it is different from normal business.
10.50: Celtic/Rangers leaving the Scottish League making it immediately more competitive.
11.30: Clubs as a community resource (like museums or libraries not run for profit, providing a community service and staying solvent).
12.48: People have to let go of the notions that they have held about the nature of football and recognise it is a totally interdependent business.
13.55: Changing the Champions League format to European and Regional Leagues and raising the standard of all, not dropping standards of one to bring about competiveness.
25.50: A rethink at the top level with NEW thinking about redistribution of income using Champions League money.
27.50: The human dilemma.
So rather than repeat what was said originally and very well developed in the comments on the Michael Grant article on the previous blog, I thought I would look at what I think is the greatest barrier to change which was the last item above – the human dilemma. *
Modern football reminds me of a description of a scene from hell where a visitor looks into one room and sees an emaciated group around a table on which is set a large pot full of stew. They cannot eat because their arms have been set straight at the elbow and elongated so that they cannot get a spoon in their mouths. It is a miserable place. Then the visitor goes upstairs and enters a similar room with occupants similarly handicapped, but where everyone is well fed and contented. “How can this be?” he asks his guide. “Well downstairs all their energies are spent in the nigh impossible task of feeding their insatiable hunger, whilst up here they simply feed each other.”
The analogy is bent a little but not broken in the sense that there are fat and emaciated folk in the football version of the lower room but it is not a healthy place as the fat can themselves become emaciated over time (see Liverpool and even Man Utd) but, generally speaking, self-interest or rather what is perceived as self-interest, holds sway.
Human nature that causes the human dilemma is well reflected in normal business where dog eats dog, then eats the food of the dog it ate if it comes out top dog. Football however cannot exist on a dog eat dog basis because it is interdependent as a business. Dog eating dog is bad for business because over a period of time even the top dog will die of starvation.
Now without abusing the dog metaphor any further and risk attracting dog’s abuse, why is it that something which should be as self-evident as looking after each other is good for business, be such a hard sell?
I said in the podcast around 12.48 that folk need to let go of the notions they have clung on to about football, but why is that so difficult?
Perhaps the resistance to that change can be found, at least in the case of Celtic, who at present are asked in the current debate to make a sacrifice for others, either in the form of gate sharing or giving up some Champion Leagues winnings (if/when they qualify) can be found in the genesis of the club and the memory of that genesis passed from generation to generation.
Everyone knows that the original purpose that Brother Walfrid had for Celtic was to feed the poor in the East End of Glasgow and many of that poor had come from Ireland to be strangers in a strange land.
As a Calton man born in the Gallowgate, as was my grandfather (my dad was found under a cabbage in Well St) I’ve never really identified much with the Irish context of Celtic’s history, although I do recognise its importance to many supporters with Irish family ties, but that dimension adds a further layer to the human dilemma.
Think of it, you form a football club to raise money to feed yourself because you live in an environment where welcome mats are in short supply. That money raised is YOUR money. Your life depends on it as does your family’s as well as your close neighbour (usually in the same close). How prepared are you to share what income you have had to raise yourself with others who you believe have been less than charitable towards you?
Add that folk memory to the human selfish trait of wanting what you spend on football spent on meeting your own desire, which is to make you happy watching an entertaining and successful team on the park and you get an idea of where the resistance to a more equitable sharing comes from and how deep it goes.
I use Celtic here because they are my club and part of my life experience and I have no idea if other clubs experience that added layer of resistance to sharing, if indeed they are in position to share. But if we are ever to be able to introduce gate sharing or what I see as the easier alternative of redistribution of UEFA geld because in not coming direct from supporters pockets it has less of the Celtic folk memory layer to overcome, then those who will be asked to make a sacrifice have to be given the confidence that the aim is not to impoverish them (and the Celtic community memory of poverty and fighting it is as strong today in the form of The Celtic Foundation, The Kano Foundation and the numerous charity events organised by supporters and prominent blogs) but to enrich their neighbours, but doing so in such a way that they enrich themselves. That is the challenge.
In the upper room in the earlier hellish description, the occupiers present the ultimate example of charity in that in feeding each other they feed themselves.
- PS the podcast covers other issues that some 18 months later might still be of interest.
On another note I was listening to Sportsound this afternoon and Waghorns blatant simulation was called out by everyone on the panel so I’m certain we’ll see the Compliance officer called into action on that one, won’t we?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22433858
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30592297
Four penalties in two games must be fairly special or unusual? Has it happened before?
Id rather go out against Germany the way our rugby cousins did tonight in Paris.
Could easily have drawn with one man off but went for it. GS please note. Bodies on the line is what it takes not posing about as a footballer.
One D Weir walked out on Scotland previously. He ought to shut his PR reps gub.
yakutsuki says:
Member:
September 5, 2015 at 2:47 pm (Edit)
Big Pink, I PM’d you on Thursday
________________________________________
No PM yak. Resend if you wish ..
It’s a very quiet night, indeed,on here!
To ease the boredom, I tried the wee refereeing quiz on the SFA website at
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_quiz.cfm?page=3157#
I am ashamed to say what my score was.So I will not declare it!
On a more serious note,I find myself not so much bored, as troubled and conflicted, when I try to assess my attitude to yesterday’s defeat in Georgia.Or perhaps a more accurate expression would be ‘troubled BECAUSE conflicted’.
The ‘conflict’ is between my desire that Scotland should do well, and the fear that our Sport’s governing bodies would be able to deflect attention away from their contemptuous ‘5WA’ and other such stuff that kicked the arse out of Integrity in the administration of our game at club level, if/when the national team does do well.
It is, of course, no fault of GS and the team that I feel that way: or that that feeling is strong enough to cause me not to be able to raise a gallop in talking about the team and its performance.Almost, almost, a kind of ‘who cares?’
John Clark says:
Member:
September 5, 2015 at 2:07 am
“One club cheated.. year upon year.”
—————————
Whilst I can’t disagree with this I am concerned about how we mend the recent schism. The media and football authorities perhaps do not see harmony as a positive attribute since partisanship may be an easier sell. However if things like the national team are to be allowed improvement then I think at some point there needs to be a bit more tolerance concerning football rivalries. Rivalry is important in getting the best out of players but at the national level such animosity needs to be set aside. International football is difficult enough even when the whole nation is onside.
Scotland started well last night but quickly fell away. Or rather, Georgia got stuck in. We are magnanimous enough a nation to accept defeat graciously.
Scotland has loads of good players and excellent managers. For a few months everyone was behind Gordon Strachan and I think this payed dividends. Now because of one poor result we are likely to pour scorn on all these past efforts.
Who do we think we are?
We might wish to win games but we can never realistically expect this. If we are so trapped in the past that any future display will never live up to past glories then what message does that send to the team.
We’re a small country battling hard in a tough world. Every so often we will get knocked over. Then we’ll get back up again and try harder. Just like maybe Georgia did last night.
Undoubtedly qualification is far less likely in the wake of this result but I don’t like to see players arguing with each other while the game is in progress. Similarly I think the fans need to get behind and stay behind their team. We’re crying out for competitiveness in our own league and yet when we play at a higher level we bemoan our ineptitude. Well that’s what competition looks like.
Get behind Scotland. Stay behind Scotland. Judge Strachan after the qualifying campaign. No country likes coming to Hampden. If you think you’re beat then you are.
MATTY ROTH.”In the bigger scheme of things this is a timely reminder that Scotland still do not produce good enough players, and have had no world class players in decades. Why is that? And what are the SFA doing about it?”
i cant help thinking that scotland would be in a better position had the dead club and not spent beyond their means and had everyone else dipping into their pockets to play more foreigners/journeymen,when at the time we could have been blooding more youngsters that may have played at the top level.i personally blame the SFA and will not back the national team while we have a conflicted complicit bunch in charge of the game.i actually want us to lose to apply more pressure on these parasites.
we need a board at the SFA with progressive aggressive ideas ,what we dont need is a bunch of charlatans that continue to pay lip service to all things blue.
personally i would like to see uefa apply a ruling where you must field at least 6 home based players at the start of a game and have at least one player[homebased] under the age of 21 in the starting line up also.
since its gone so quite maybe others would like to make a suggestion or 2 on how to move the game forward, before the infighting begins as there does seem to be a pattern when things go quite around here.
btw, is it possible that ogilvie could have his collar felt at some point? fingers crossed.
Re: ‘NYC Symposium’
Sounds good jockybhoy, just tell me on here I have a PM when you are over here and we can arrange.
John Clark says:
Member:
September 5, 2015 at 11:04 pm
I managed 7/10 but thought I had them all correct .
View Comment
Matty RothMatty Roth says:
Member:
September 5, 2015 at 8:39 pm
On another note I was listening to Sportsound this afternoon and Waghorns blatant simulation was called out by everyone on the panel so I’m certain we’ll see the Compliance officer called into action on that one, won’t we?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22433858
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30592297
———–
I heard that. They were in no doubt. Add to that the bizarre sending off last week, which ended the match as a competitive affair. Pundits were equally bemused by that, as was ‘Warbs’. You’d almost think a huge positive goal difference + as many points as possible were being served up to order in case admin strikes at some point. Only ‘almost think’, of course. After all, the SFA & SPFL would not approve a licence to a club knowing it did not have the funds to see the season out :irony:
John Clark says:
Member:
September 5, 2015 at 11:04 pm
————————–
8/10 Of the two wrong I got two out of the three non compulsory items and the third I put down one that is compulsory under most local rules. The other? Well I haven’t see many refs take a tape measure to the ball(s) a glance at the size which is now clearly displayed should be sufficient so the size is the manufacturers responsibility not the Ref’s
So what happens now re the withcalling of a player from International duty to play a league game. Should this not have been addressed beforehand and the rule breaking avoided? Or will it be a case of sweep sweep again
It must serve different questions each time it is done. I got 8/10 and one of the wrong’uns was me being cute. (How many substitutes are allowed in an offical game? I put 6, being 3 for each team, but they wanted 3 for an answer). I didn’t get either of your two as questions
Jimbo, good story about Jamie Reid. Dancers are most certainly athletes of a sort. The work they have to do is incredible.
scottc says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 9:54 am
================
Now I know that I can also say I got one correct that strictly wasn’t but was the best of the two options given. It asked in a penalty shoot out where must a player stand after taking his penalty. The options were ‘anywhere on the field’ and ‘in the centre circle’. While it is usually applied as on/behind the halfway line across most of the field even if it is as per the SFA’s 2nd option it doesn’t apply to all players. Pedantic I know but goalkeepers do take penalties and unless its the last they certainly don’t return to anywhere near the centre circle.
Big Pink (I know it was you!)
Pulling a post about a Celtic ballet dancer! Philistine!
I didn’t even get my article moved over to the moderation thread. Were you on the juice last night?
TallBoyPoppy!!
Your mail is bouncing back. Please PM me re Perth.
OK I forgive you and apologise! (about the juice thing). But at least let me post a picture of him in a footballing context!
If not, it’s the car park for you and me! 😈
http://www.heraldscotland.com/arts_ents/13633970.Straight_outta_the_Gallowgate__the_Scottish_Ballet_dancer_with_a_difference/?ref=mmpg
Just clicked on my own link there, and it’s the complete article from the herald I only meant a picture. So no doubt this will be pulled again. Oh well, what can ye do?
I’m away over to Clumpy he’s not as fussy.
BTW, I think Clumpy & Ibrox Noise would be good for a pod cast on the same night.
Maybe people have seen this? From Forbes, nearly three years ago…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2012/10/08/what-can-we-learn-from-the-financial-meltdown-of-glasgow-rangers-fc/
Had an interesting chat with a Rangers* supporting pal in the pub last night. He had been at the game earlier and thoroughly enjoyed seeing his team rattle in 5 goals. Can’t fault him for that!
He opined that at present, the support is divided into two broad camps. The largest section, around 70%, are of the ‘WATP’, Bring on the Celtic’ ‘Rightful Place’ persuasion.
The others, and my buddy counts himself in their number, are asking where are the resources coming from to sustain ‘the journey’. As has been recently pointed out, matchday income is presently at its maximum but will never bridge the gap between income & expenditure.
There is also a belief among the majority that when ‘funding’ is required the RRM will step forth and do the necessary.
My mate also stated that he would not dare to voice his concerns in the presence of fellow supporters for fear of ridicule or worse. Austerity is not in the lexicon, The Warbs will scour the EPL for hidden gems, who will only be too happy to play for the greatest team ever. How is it going to be paid for? What a stupid question!!
Guys like my pal are certainly enjoying the football side of things but the recent polis malarkey and ‘going concern’ concerns are setting them up for a harsh dose of reality. He is aware of what is on the horizon and I can sympathise with him and supporters who just want their team to be competing. As for the rest? Competing is not on the agenda. ‘Defeating’ their ‘enemies’, ‘marching’ in ‘triumph’ across the battlefield that is Scottish football is the prevailing and, it would appear, sustaining belief.
Caveat Emptor says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm
Unfortunately, I find that the majority are in the “never forget, never forgive” camp ,and it’s not confined to football .The referendum result was a big fillip to their cause and they see the natural order (in their eyes)as having been restored after a period of uncertainty . And, if you’re not for them, you’re against them .It’s their country and it will be run for their benefit .I await the forthcoming trials with some trepidation as they may not get the outcomes they expect .Sorry for bringing politics into my post , and have no problem if the Mods decide not to post it .
Caveat
Noticed this also when one of the guys came in to the bar last night and asked what the score at Ibrox had been,he had just came from the house,and has not mentioned his team in any form for a number of years ,it seems its better a late summer than no summer at all
Carfins Finest says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 9:18 am
So what happens now re the withcalling of a player from International duty to play a league game. Should this not have been addressed beforehand and the rule breaking avoided? Or will it be a case of sweep sweep again
========================
The SFA’s answer is Raith Rovers were given dispensation to do the same with their player. Apparently they would have had to fund his return home themselves. They elected not to do so for whatever reason.
Personally I don’t get why Rangers were so keen on Ryan Hardie returning anyway. Right now they could surely have won without him. I suspect it may have been a case of trying to make the SFA refuse them something with subsequent rage among the bears. Just my opinion of course.
scapaflow@ 11-13pm 3/9/15
all well and good, but I suspect you meant Delay, Worry And Expense?! 😀
Don
Caveat Emptor says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm
If you were to believe places like follow follow then the rest of Scottish football is in fear of their heroic return to their “rightful place” at the top. They will never forgive and never forget and the more harm that comes to other teams on the way the better.
With regard to Mark Warburton, it appears he is the new Messianic figure, building a fantastic team well capable of winning a double, or even a treble if you count the Petrofac cup.
All talk of the club losing money on an ongoing basis and the off-field problems seem to have gone. Dave King et al must be very grateful for this respite. Though that can only be temporary, at some point new money will have to be found and currently additional borrowing seems the only way.
A DISS6 form for TRFC Group Ltd (aka Wavetower) has been submitted to Companies House.
i.e. the Registrar has received a request the suspend the dissolution of the company.
Now I wonder who would make such a request, BDO or the Crown Office perhaps?
upthehoops says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Carfins Finest says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 9:18 am
So what happens now re the withcalling of a player from International duty to play a league game. Should this not have been addressed beforehand and the rule breaking avoided? Or will it be a case of sweep sweep again
========================
The SFA’s answer is Raith Rovers were given dispensation to do the same with their player. Apparently they would have had to fund his return home themselves. They elected not to do so for whatever reason.
Personally I don’t get why Rangers were so keen on Ryan Hardie returning anyway. Right now they could surely have won without him. I suspect it may have been a case of trying to make the SFA refuse them something with subsequent rage among the bears. Just my opinion of course.
————–
This does not alter the fact that a rule was indeed broken. Offering the opportunity for the opposition to break the same rule to even things up is just childish. By that measure you can play an ineligible player so long as your opposition is offered the opportunity to do the same whether they decide to take up the chance to do so is neither here nor there. The lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
I spoke this morning at my boys football to friend who is a Rangers fan. On mentioning their financial distress and the serious problems they are now facing regarding potentially trading with illegally acquired assets and the difficulty this will cause them in raising finance I was met by a blank stare. “You lot are obsessed, we’re the only game in town and you’re hating it” was the answer distilled into a few words.
Try as I might I could not get the guy to understand the problem they are in. We were standing in a group with several other Rangers fans who were all of the same opinion. Crazy doesn’t begin to describe the situation.
On having a look at Rangers Media there is not a single thread talking about this (there is one about why Laudrup chose Rangers over Barca though…).
Is this some kind of mass delusion? They’re going to be out of cash by Christmas with very little hope of a sugar daddy bailing them out and yet seem not to care a jot. Very strange.
arfins Finest says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 4:01 pm
upthehoops says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Carfins Finest says:
Member:
September 6, 2015
This does not alter the fact that a rule was indeed broken. Offering the opportunity for the opposition to break the same rule to even things up is just childish. By that measure you can play an ineligible player so long as your opposition is offered the opportunity to do the same whether they decide to take up the chance to do so is neither here nor there. The lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
______________
Similar, I suppose, to the idea (from LNS) that EBTs didn’t produce a sporting advantage as they were available to all, even although no one knew they were, and, as yet, may well be deemed illegal. There was also the fact that any club wanting to use them would have to mis-register players, so the only way to use them was to…break the rules.
Seems the football authorities have picked up from LNS the idea that a club (one club) can break the rules and have the opportunity to do the same passed to their oponents! But what if their oponents, in this case, didn’t have a player in the squad to be able to resiprocate?
Why this desperation to allow TRFC to do as they will?
Further to EJ’s earlier post, Sevco 5088 Ltd themselves are still under threat of being struck off :
07 Jul 2015 First Gazette notice for voluntary strike-off
25 Feb 2015 Voluntary strike-off action has been suspended
16 Dec 2014 First Gazette notice for voluntary strike-off
29 Apr 2014 Voluntary strike-off action has been suspended
04 Mar 2014 First Gazette notice for voluntary strike-off
18 Feb 2014 Application to strike the company off the register
Wonder if we’ll see a further suspension here too?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Big Pink says:
Moderator:
September 6, 2015 at 11:00 am
——————————–
I acknowledge receipt of your message, BP, and have also provided a possible explaination by PM. I’ve just noticed the proposed change of date. Some of us well-organised types may have already booked rooms in anticipation. Many of the better billets are quite full, with an abundance of cheap rooms still available. What might that say about the demographic of the blog? (For the record, I’m in the cheap berths and that says it all about me!.)
Re Ryan Hardie
The SFA response to the T’Rangers request should have been to ask how such an early withdrawal fitted in to Warburton’s reported new approach to discipline down Govan way. Clear timetables for training, players wearing suits, all travelling together. In other words would the club have sanctioned an early release of a player had they had a similar double headed fixture.
Someone has mentioned to me that my posting of an alleged notice on the RIFC website regarding the ‘appointment’ of a local store to provide newspapers was not clear enough a spoof. I am happy to confirm that it was in fact a spoof but perhaps I should have marked it as such.
Maybe this new posting will spare some of our esteemed MSM from lifting the story for tomorrow’s papers if they have not already filed it.
I think however that in the situation we find ourselves, and the reason for the ‘spoof’, that such a press notice would no longer surprise us.
To turn back to what was the catalyst for the spoof I cannot conceive of any normal company who would claim the appointment of an auditor “as yet another important milestone as the RIFC Board continues to regenerate the Club” or to describe the relationship as an “alliance”.
I note that this news was not carried in the RIFC ‘Investor Centre” but in the general News area and that perhaps explains much. I don’t think that this press release was aimed at anyone other than the ‘fan in the street’ who typically would likely have no understanding of the role of an auditor and would assume from the claims being made this was some kind of imprimatur from the world of finance.
The content and style of the RIFC notice, to my eyes, thus risks duping the ‘fan in the street’ who is more than receptive to any form of ‘good news’ from RRM to go by past form.
To put it crudely Campbell Dallas are a hired hand brought in to check that the accounts are drawn up correctly – usually with lots of caveats – with this particular role being required by law.
They appear to have been the last in line of some kind of auditors’ game of ‘pass the parcel’. I can just imagine the CD people gingerly peeling off layers of wrapping paper as they anticipate the toxic contents therein, holding their noses as they proceed.
I suspect that CD will be viewing this appointment as something to keep under very close watch and be ready to bail should they encounter any of the problems and issues that appear to have so troubled their peer group.
Scottish Football has obviously found an auditor with balls – CD just need to pray that there is no nasty penalty lurking up ahead.
I hope you all have a great time on your ‘meet ups’ whether in Perth, Engerlund or NY. I can’t make the Perth one due to previously arranged engagements. I would have felt very conspicuous anyway 😯
I am sorry I will miss all the new info but maybe someone will PM me with an update 😀
Does anyone have any idea what might have prompted Tom English’s piece on Brian Laudrup on the BBC website today? It seems to be only another opportunity taken to link the current incarnation to the old one (Laudrup says he will bring his kid to watch the new club in the Championship) and appears purely aimed at reassuring the Rangers/TRFC* fans that “Rangers-itis” does indeed exist. I can’t see why this piece would appear now in normal circumstances – Laudrup isn’t in the country; doesn’t appear to have done anything new to generate contact with him; Denmark aren’t playing Scotland. I don’t understand why this article has appeared right now. If Tom’s reading, maybe he could clarify please?
I have put togther a draft budget page for the blog for the next year. The page is at http://www.sfmonitor.org/sfm-draft-budget-2015-16/ and is open to logged on members f the blog.
To accounting types it will no doubt look like the back of a fag-packet, but it is an accurate representation of how we expect the year ahead to be, so no sniggering in the bean-bags.
We will be posting regular accounts information on the blog for the sake of transparency – after all the money we have is largely donated by members of SFM.
Comments and suggestions on the page itself are welcome.
Last time we did something similar, we were overwhelmed by people pitching their services. Please don’t pitch to us on the page if you have something to sell – unless you are giving it away for free of course 🙂
easyJambo says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 3:40 pm
A DISS6 form for TRFC Group Ltd (aka Wavetower) has been submitted to Companies House.
i.e. the Registrar has received a request the suspend the dissolution of the company.
Now I wonder who would make such a request, BDO or the Crown Office perhaps?
2015-09-05-TRFC-Group-strike-off-suspended
———————————
EJ
Didn’t BDO allude that they thought the claim without merit and would move speedily to resolve? Maybes this is the method?
nawlite says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 8:00 pm
I think the question of timing is one for the producer and the Radio Scotland controller.
ianagain says: September 6, 2015 at 8:50 pm
EJ
Didn’t BDO allude that they thought the claim without merit and would move speedily to resolve? Maybes this is the method?
============================
If BDO didn’t receive the required information to submit a proper claim by Friday (4th), they were going to request that the Court of Session formally set a cut off date.
nawlite says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Does anyone have any idea what might have prompted Tom English’s piece on Brian Laudrup on the BBC website today? It seems to be only another opportunity taken to link the current incarnation to the old one (Laudrup says he will bring his kid to watch the new club in the Championship) and appears purely aimed at reassuring the Rangers/TRFC* fans that “Rangers-itis” does indeed exist. I can’t see why this piece would appear now in normal circumstances – Laudrup isn’t in the country; doesn’t appear to have done anything new to generate contact with him; Denmark aren’t playing Scotland. I don’t understand why this article has appeared right now. If Tom’s reading, maybe he could clarify please?
=======================================================
You beat me to it, Nawlite.
I came on here to see if there was any explanation, and I see that you’d already posed the question.
Quite frankly, it is completely baffling and I really have to wonder if the licence fee is being correctly disbursed if it is paying for the production of such puff pieces masquerading as “news”.
Was that part of the terms of settlement of the lovers’ tiff between TRFC and BBC? We demand to know.
If there are any ICT supporters with a good contact at ICT looking in can they contact me via PM please?
Guys, I’m not on twitter, but does anyone on here converse with Tom English on there/ If so, would you mind asking him the question I asked in my post tonight at 8.00pm? Thanks. I’ll also contact the BBC asking the same question.
nawlite says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 10:58 pm
It’s part of a series. He did Henrik larrson a week or two ago. Im not aware of either episode being part of a wider conspiracy.
And do you think he’d tell us if it was 😉
nawlite says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 10:58 pm (Edit)
=================
Done. I linked to your post.
Back on my LNS hobby horse and no mention of wee tax case in commissioning of LNS:
have I posted that there was no mention of the unpaid bill in the Judicial Review published in May 2012
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/the-sfa-judicial-panel-verdict-on-rangers-full-text/
in spite of evidence providers for RFC knowing about it and of course Mr C Ogilvie Presiding over the SFA Compliance Officer who laid the charges.
If you look at the charges including non payment of PAYE and Tax to HMRC its exclusion simply does not make sense.
When you add that the JR took place at same time Harper Macleod are asking and not getting information on the ebts that caused the unpaid tax, it beggars belief that neither parties to the Review included the non payments of £2.8m in it but of course if they had, pussy would have escaped the bag.
Anyone ever unravelled knitting?
Its quite quiet and if you are not watching you wouldn’t even know it was happening.
burghGer says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:09 am
Burghger, I saw his Larsson piece and, if I’m honest, I didn’t link his latest Laudrup piece to it. I don’t think it’s my bias showing, but the Larsson piece made sense to me in respect of its timing, given that Celtic had just been drawn against a Scandinavian team in their Europa league group. It made some sense then to talk to a Scandi/Swedish and Celtic legend, even if they didn’t talk specifically about the Europa league – though they did talk about Larsson’s disappointment over the Final loss to Porto. The Laudrup one I can’t see the point in, unless you’re suggesting it’s just the old “even things out” approach that the MSM always has to employ?
a few questions for cetic fans that attended the celtic v sevco game [semi], did any of you read the matchday program? and what did it say about sevcos history?.what do you expect to read in the matchday program on their first attendance at celtic park next season ?
i hope my club stick it to them next season in the matchday program any dancing around the subject for me,i will be calling it a day.
motor red says:
Member:
September 7, 2015 at 6:27 am
a few questions for cetic fans that attended the celtic v sevco game [semi], did any of you read the matchday program? and what did it say about sevcos history?.what do you expect to read in the matchday program on their first attendance at celtic park next season ?
i hope my club stick it to them next season in the matchday program any dancing around the subject for me,i will be calling it a day.
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I didn’t attend the semi-final you talk about. I had no desire for Celtic to play Rangers while so many issues remained in denial, and everyone but them was getting the blame for what happened. As for what clubs will say in their programmes next season, I personally don’t expect any fireworks. We have already witnessed on many occasions the new Rangers have the full backing of the SFA, the SPFL, and the media when anyone points out they are a new club, which they undoubtedly are. As always, clubs just won’t think it’s worth the hassle, so your/my choice will be whether to continue to invest our hard earned in that case.
I heard the Brian Laudrup interview yesterday. I had assumed he was in Glasgow for some reason (legends charity match in memory of Jock Stein?).
I saw Auldheid’s tweet linking TE to Nawlite’s post above. Response was a bit sad. I suppose in TE’s defence, he’s been getting it in the neck from the 70% mentioned by @Caveat above. So he may well write off anything that suggests a conspiracy. The meeting with dignified Craig ‘Yer a Scumbag Mr Whyte’ Houston on Sportsound was outrageous, made worse by the lack of back up TE got from that Ibrox Court Reporter posing as a BBC employee who was on the show with him. And on twitter TE has been harangued for not warning the uber loyal about Whyte & Green. Collective amnesia and denial is a sad thing.
I like Brian Laudrup, but I would, being of the Pastry persuasion 🙂 I followed his progress long before he was known about in Glasgow. He was the type of player I remember that attracted me to football way back. From a distance I was quite chuffed that a Dane had gone in the opposite direction from myself and found a home in Glasgow. No idea what financial incentive tempted him at the time, but I suppose SDM used the OPM liberally.
Anyway, while the interview certainly resurrected the tired old ‘OF, greatest derby/rivalry in the universe’ nonsense (a lot of dire football, imo), I thought he did not shy away from asking BL if he was aware of the nasty side of that fixture. Laudrup was diplomatic, and I’m sure he is even more bemused by it than the rest us.
If the BBC want to show a bit of impartiality, they might want to do the Full Nordic and get Tom interviewing the likes of Mixu, Ebbe Skovdahl (Oh no, I hear Dons’ fans shriek), and going further back, a piece on the Danish invasion at Morton (Erik Sørensen is still going strong, I believe) 💡
UPTHEHOOPS.
”I didn’t attend the semi-final you talk about. I had no desire for Celtic to play Rangers while so many issues remained in denial, and everyone but them was getting the blame for what happened. As for what clubs will say in their programmes next season, I personally don’t expect any fireworks. We have already witnessed on many occasions the new Rangers have the full backing of the SFA, the SPFL, and the media when anyone points out they are a new club, which they undoubtedly are. As always, clubs just won’t think it’s worth the hassle, so your/my choice will be whether to continue to invest our hard earned in that case..”
i fear you may be correct.so i shall will refuse to part of the lie. i will fire off a letter to my club when approaching the inevitable game and make it quite clear that i shall expose them at every opportunity if they refuse to tell the truth and shall encourage others to do likewise.
Regarding “Laudrup-gate”, the interview was one of a series called Sport Talk. Here’s a link to the other episodes, some interesting ones there: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b060c3sh/episodes/guide From Larsson, to Barry Hearn, to Sergei Baltacha – doesn’t seem the criteria for choosing interviewees is particularly restrictive!
I seem to be one of the few Rangers fans with a soft spot for Tom English. Don’t always agree with him but seems genuinely non-partisan and a step removed from the Glasgow/fitba bubble. I hope he hangs around at the BBC.
Terrible news. RIP Ralph Milne. He was greased lightning on the field – a memorable player. Dreadfully sad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34171610
Calling all Dons fans. Is there a Dons’ fan website that isn’t restricted to just a forum? I mean is there one which has lead articles like the way we do it?
Whilst I am at it, could we all recommend a fansite of their won team whose content would be interesting, or controversial or whatever for us on here?
Ralph Milne RIP. I remember how fearsome it was watching him and Graeme Payne and Paul Sturrock all racing towards me as I stood on the terraces behind the Celtic goal. This is very, very sad news.
burghGer says:
Member:
September 7, 2015 at 9:34 am
I seem to be one of the few Rangers fans with a soft spot for Tom English. Don’t always agree with him but seems genuinely non-partisan and a step removed from the Glasgow/fitba bubble. I hope he hangs around at the BBC.
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He must surely be getting sick of the constant stream of abuse he gets. I don’t know why he is such a hate figure for a significant element in the Ibrox support, no doubt he wrote or said something three years ago which will never be forgiven or forgotten.
Next season looks like it’s going to be great fun, while all these grudges get worked through on and off the pitch 🙄 🙄 🙄
?? No message for me ?? I did contact you with an interest but can no longer manage 😥 but hope you all enjoy
dear big pink.
none that i can think of ,though the thread on [aberdeen mad] named,another year in the champiHUNship is quite good and insightful at times has sometimes came up with fresh revelations before they arrive here. the thread gets renamed once its maxed out, its being going on for over 3 years now.
Sad to hear of Ralph Milne’s passing, his goal in the Dundee Derby, that sealed United their League title, still lives in the memory of many non-United supporters.
Very sad to learn of his health problems. He was a great talent and a player admired by all who saw him play.
RIP Ralph.
😕 StevieBC says:
Re: ‘NYC Symposium’
“Sounds good jockybhoy, just tell me on here I have a PM when you are over here and we can arrange.”
Is two people a “symposium”? 😯
Will do, if only as an excuse for a pint with non-work colleague/someone like-minded.
An OT media monitor observation: Nice to see the CoS live on telly. Regardless of which side of this issue folks may fall, the opening up of the court to wider public scrutiny can only be a good thing. I’m watching this wondering what the BTC cases would have been like live with all those characters who otherwise managed to maintain magnifcent colour-coded anonymity well out of public view.
Castofthousands says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 12:27 am
Whilst I can’t disagree with this I am concerned about how we mend the recent schism. The media and football authorities perhaps do not see harmony as a positive attribute since partisanship may be an easier sell. However if things like the national team are to be allowed improvement then I think at some point there needs to be a bit more tolerance concerning football rivalries. Rivalry is important in getting the best out of players but at the national level such animosity needs to be set aside. International football is difficult enough even when the whole nation is onside.
Scotland started well last night but quickly fell away. Or rather, Georgia got stuck in. We are magnanimous enough a nation to accept defeat graciously.
Scotland has loads of good players and excellent managers. For a few months everyone was behind Gordon Strachan and I think this payed dividends. Now because of one poor result we are likely to pour scorn on all these past efforts.
Who do we think we are?
We might wish to win games but we can never realistically expect this. If we are so trapped in the past that any future display will never live up to past glories then what message does that send to the team.
We’re a small country battling hard in a tough world. Every so often we will get knocked over. Then we’ll get back up again and try harder. Just like maybe Georgia did last night.
Undoubtedly qualification is far less likely in the wake of this result but I don’t like to see players arguing with each other while the game is in progress. Similarly I think the fans need to get behind and stay behind their team. We’re crying out for competitiveness in our own league and yet when we play at a higher level we bemoan our ineptitude. Well that’s what competition looks like.
Get behind Scotland. Stay behind Scotland. Judge Strachan after the qualifying campaign. No country likes coming to Hampden. If you think you’re beat then you are.
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Couple of thoughts on the Scotland performance this weekend.
Firstly, I was dreading this match from the moment I saw the squad. It never looked like a team to tough out a result in tricky conditions against a tricky opponent, too many players not in form and/or not getting a game for their club.
Secondly, I thought the overall performance was a disgrace. The lack of effort from the team was appalling as was the lack of urgency in the second half. That we failed to register a shot on target says it all.
Lastly, for some reason Gordon Strachan (even though he’s a Dons legend) has something of a blind spot for the rest of the Scottish premiership and I wonder why. If anything there are more players in the rest of the league putting their hands up for selection than there has been in a few years.
From my own team (100% this season and playing well) why are the likes of Jack, Reynolds and Quinn not in contention? Even the likes of Goodwillie would have given a damn sight more effort than our other non-scoring strikers.
Please tell me it’s not as simple as the Mulgrew/Griffiths scenario of you don’t get picked until you sign for Celtic.
Strachan has done well to revitalise things since he took charge so I’m not going to hang him out to dry on the basis of one result, but there were some worrying signs there, I hope they’re not repeated.
I see KJ is writing about the SFA’s mismanagement of Scotland’s return flight from Georgia & comments that:
” THERE’S a dangerous culture of denial and self preservation taking hold on Hampden’s sixth floor.
Dare to point out where Stewart Regan and his merry band of blazers are getting it wrong and you’re accused of having an agenda. Be bold enough to actually highlight their incompetence and you’re perpetrating a witch-hunt
It’s known as playing the victim card and over these last few years of Scottish football’s decline few have played it better, or more often for that matter, than Regan.”
The SFA hierarchy have been an “open goal” for several years, yet rather than take the shot, you’ve chosen to pass.
So why now, KJ?
@Motor Red
I didn’t read the content of the match day programme.
As for the clubs’ first meeting at CP, I expect our own programme to mention the new club’s history since it’s foundation in 2012.
We brought out a DVD of the last ever ‘O** F***’ game that year which Celtic won 3-0 so they can hardly mention a continuation of that now deceased rivalry.
Personally, I have 3 season tickets at CP and if there is anything mentioned about SevcoFC being the old RFC, then I’ll probably reconsider the buying of those tickets next year.
I don’t believe I’ll be the only one.
[Moderated: New poster 🙂 ]
SPF
burghGer says:
September 7, 2015 at 9:34 am
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Apropos of nothing other than sheer nosiness on my part – but who is that in your profile pic? Looks to me like it could be Mel Sterland?
One of those trivial details that can drive you to distraction :irony:
Big Pink says:
Moderator:
September 7, 2015 at 9:50 am
Calling all Dons fans. Is there a Dons’ fan website that isn’t restricted to just a forum? I mean is there one which has lead articles like the way we do it?
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Funny you should ask that, there was someone advertising a blog on one of the forums last week. I should say I haven’t actually read any of it yet so I can’t pass judgement on the quality! Keep meaning to go and have a looksie… Somebody mentioned old Skovdahl earlier – the blog use one of his finest quotes as a title.
https://statsandminiskirts.wordpress.com
zerotolerance1903 says:
Member:
September 7, 2015 at 11:30 am
Castofthousands says:
Member:
September 6, 2015 at 12:27 am
Couple of thoughts on the Scotland performance this weekend.
Lastly, for some reason Gordon Strachan (even though he’s a Dons legend) has something of a blind spot for the rest of the Scottish premiership and I wonder why. If anything there are more players in the rest of the league putting their hands up for selection than there has been in a few years.
From my own team (100% this season and playing well) why are the likes of Jack, Reynolds and Quinn not in contention? Even the likes of Goodwillie would have given a damn sight more effort than our other non-scoring strikers.
Please tell me it’s not as simple as the Mulgrew/Griffiths scenario of you don’t get picked until you sign for Celtic.
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Jack should at least be a regular in the squad. He def has the potential, Shinnie also. Even if we saw those being taken in it would ease some of the growing disregard sense for the Scotland football team. I’ve looked around a few football forums from various teams over the weekend, and was disheartened by the amount of posts with comments such as “ach, this Scotland team means nothing to me”, “SFA and Strachan are so detached from Scottish football I can’t be bothered” or simply “I lost interest in that a long time ago”. I think even Auldheid here (I’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong) made a similar statement.
But, what to me is even more worrying is this lack of interest in SPL players outside Celtic. That two of the managerial staff are ex Aberdeen “legends” (although one did blot his copy book more recently), makes this even more galling. Basically, if footballers in Scotland feel the same way as the fans increasingly feel, does that not force the more driven players to leave Scotland. If they want to play for the national team they all know they must leave to stand a chance! Is that what our blazers (including Strachan et al) want?
It just weakens our home league still further….
http://www.hostilemonkey.co.uk/weekend-at-bernies/
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned on here before, but it brings together several strands of post-2012 mythology with substantial references and links to source material.
Tayred, it was really interesting to read a couple of the AFC articles from the fansite link you shared above. I read the one praising the job Derek McInnes has done and honestly can’t help but compare and contrast the similar threads about Mark Warburton on Rangers sites. The AFC fan who starts the thread is clearly happy with what McInnes is doing and I agree he seems to be doing the right things, as I also think Warburton is doing well so far. However, if you read TRFC* fans starting threads on how happy they are with Warburton, there isn’t just a feeling that he’s doing well, but it always has to be that he’s the greatest manager ever; they’d much rather have him than any other crappy manager you care to mention (especially Ronny Deila, of course); every other club is quaking in their boots because they have him etc. Come on, Tayred, why can’t you guys do it right?!?!
Jingso.Jimsie says:
Member:
September 7, 2015 at 11:33 am
I see KJ is writing about the SFA’s mismanagement of Scotland’s return flight from Georgia & comments that:
” THERE’S a dangerous culture of denial and self preservation taking hold on Hampden’s sixth floor…
======================
Yes, on the face of it, it looked like Keef was – at last – writing like a journalist.
But then, when you consider that his ‘outburst’ against the SFA was prompted by a delayed flight, [and his own delayed flight ?], it quickly puts things in perspective.
3 years+ of SFA/SFL/SPL/SPFL/RFC/TRFC nonsense, lying, rulebending etc… and not much of a peep from our Award Winning Keef.
But a delayed flight…? 🙄
And IIRC, the SFA has previous on messing up flights. Did they not charter a flight a few years back – but their luggage wouldn’t fit in the hold ? And cases had to be loaded onto seats ?
The mere mention of ‘The SFA’ continues to conjure up mental images of breweries and parties which just don’t happen… 😉
Trisidium says:
Moderator:
September 6, 2015 at 8:48 pm
I have put togther a draft budget page for the blog for the next year. The page is at http://www.sfmonitor.org/sfm-draft-budget-2015-16/ and is open to logged on members f the blog.
To accounting types it will no doubt look like the back of a fag-packet, but it is an accurate representation of how we expect the year ahead to be, so no sniggering in the bean-bags…
====================
That looks fine Tris as first cut – and provides transparency in Scottish Football …Monitor. 😉
The subs take-up rate looks a bit miserable though: I am reading that as 51 subs payers, at and average of GBP 4 a month each.
A paper costs what a pound a day, or about 30 pounds a month – if you bought a paper of course. Shirley the Bampots could step up on this reliable form of funding for such a valuable source of info and debate ?
And what about ‘SFM’ logo-ed tat, like mugs etc for sale online ?
Maybe for later, but might generate a wee bit of extra income ?
nawlite says:
Member:
September 7, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Tayred, it was really interesting to read a couple of the AFC articles from the fansite link you shared above. I read the one praising the job Derek McInnes has done and honestly can’t help but compare and contrast the similar threads about Mark Warburton on Rangers sites. The AFC fan who starts the thread is clearly happy with what McInnes is doing and I agree he seems to be doing the right things, as I also think Warburton is doing well so far. However, if you read TRFC* fans starting threads on how happy they are with Warburton, there isn’t just a feeling that he’s doing well, but it always has to be that he’s the greatest manager ever; they’d much rather have him than any other crappy manager you care to mention (especially Ronny Deila, of course); every other club is quaking in their boots because they have him etc. Come on, Tayred, why can’t you guys do it right?!?!
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Ach, cos us Aberdonians are miserable beggars 😛 It’s just nae us to be over positive about things!
But your right, MicInnes is getting more right than wrong, and better still isn’t to ashamed to admit it when he does get things wrong (most of the time 🙂 )
Unlike me, fa canna even spell McInnes apparently…. must be nerves building for tonight. 😯
I see that Sheriff Sean Murphy has granted the Crown a three month extension to present a case against Craig Whyte and others.
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1328245-crown-get-extra-time-to-bring-ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-to-trial/
Prosecutors have been granted an extra three months to bring former Rangers owner Craig Whyte and four others to trial over the alleged fraudulent acquisition of the club.
The Crown Office on Thursday asked for an extension to the date when an indictment must be served on those charged in connection with the alleged fraudulent purchase of Rangers in 2011.
Prosecutors had until September 17 to present their case against the club’s former owner Craig Whyte, joint administrators Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, ex-club secretary Gary Withey and David Grier.
At court proceedings in Glasgow on Monday, legal arguments continued after the Crown requested the extension to their deadline on Thursday.
Sheriff Sean Murphy QC told lawyers at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Monday he would grant a three-month extension to the time bar in the case.
All five men were charged in November 2014 accused of being involved in a fraudulent scheme when Whyte bought Rangers from Sir David Murray for £1 in 2011.
just seen tom ‘ puffpiece’s’ irish headline about laudrup chosing rfc over barca…. ffs ya old riverdancer … an ebt against a peseta is a no contest everytime…..
keep taking the succulent colcannon…..and he wants to be a serious hack when he grows up….. jings crivens help ma govanfacepainter….
The Cat NR1 says:
Member:
September 7, 2015 at 3:08 pm
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Thanks for that!! Just remembered this funny pic: