Reflections on Goalposts

ByDanish Pastry

Reflections on Goalposts

A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.

One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.

My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.

We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.

These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.

The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.

The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.

This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.

How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.

You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.

Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.

About the author

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4,642 Comments so far

Big PinkPosted on10:17 pm - Dec 26, 2013


The McCoist situation is a real Catch-22 for Rangers.

On one hand, he is Continuity Man – the individual almost singlehandedly responsible for the plausible deniability of New Club.
On the other, his managerial ineptitude is arguably responsible for the speed of RFCs demise and may yet delay their procession to the top league.

Looking at it from the Rangers perspective, this is very much a rock and a hard place.

One might argue that the squad overkill is an attempt to compensate for McCoist’s lack of coaching chops. That would certainly explain the perverse logic of their expenditure given their resources. Looked at through the prism of Ally’s diddiness, the spending policy, whilst a risky business, makes a lot more sense.

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scottcPosted on10:17 pm - Dec 26, 2013


bad capt madman says: (302)
December 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm

It may be that the tickets a part of a bigger package of support that RCF provides for homeless people, but we’ve not heard this.

Not a huge package though, when less than £90k of the £300k collected actually makes it to charitable causes.

PS Merry Christmas everybody.

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Tif FinnPosted on11:26 pm - Dec 26, 2013


So the suggestion is that something like 2,600 tickets have been given away by the Rangers foundation this month. However these tickets were actually bought from the club to be given away.

Just as a ball park figure that’s 2,600 x £17 = c£44,000 taken from the charity during December, but reported as if the club is giving tickets away in some sort charitable act.

I genuinely hope there is no truth in this, it was bad enough stealing the charity’s money for the club which was liquidated, but to do it again and paint it as a charitable act would be just disgusting.

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FisianiPosted on12:57 am - Dec 27, 2013


The Rangers are so hard up that they are using the funds of a charity to keep them going. The so called tickets given away were BOUGHT by the Rangers Charity and then given away. This shows that The Rangers are running on financial fumes and if I was a supplier to Ibrokes I would be demanding cash up front. Some suppliers who do not do so are going to be royally screwed very soon.

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wottpiPosted on1:00 am - Dec 27, 2013


Any walk out today at Ibrokes or was it just business as usual for the head in the sand brigade?

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LUGOSI99Posted on1:30 am - Dec 27, 2013


Hallelujah.
All praise to scottc at 10:14pm.
Undying gratitude you were promised and undying gratitude you shall have.
Following the first link provided leads to:
scapaflow 4th December 2013 8:37pm
You read that Rangers have donated 2000 tickets to local schools and other groups and you think good initiative, only…
…along comes Corsica Charity tweeting that the “donated” tickets have in fact been charged to the Rangers charity. I suppose its one way of getting paying customers into the ground.
Thereafter there are posts commenting on the matter:- jimlarkin 5th December 2013 7:07am; FIFA 5th December 2013 7:25am; neepheid 5th December 2013 7:49am; Paulmac2 5th December 2013 7:59am.
That’s enough to be getting on with and reassures me that I’m not going nuts.
Does anyone know scapaflow’s current whereabouts in order that “Corsica Charity tweeting” can be clarified?
In any case it would appear that nothing followed these exchanges. The options would appear to be either track down the source of this post or go directly to the Foundation and ask them. If there is nothing amiss I’m confident they would break their necks to say so and to show their accounts which would have absolutely no entries to or from The Rangers Etc. While they are being asked it might be a good opportunity to allow the Foundation to confirm that in connection with the Idaho White Water Challenge all participants from The Rangers Etc. have met their own expenses. The Foundation’s website is touting the 2014 Challenge and tells how past participants include Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Walter Smith and Jorg Albertz. I suppose three out of four having a connection with the current club is as good as it’s going to get. It would be a tonic for the troops when they are being asked to dig deep, again, to be assured that in the summer when Super Salary and his son and others went off to Idaho they paid for their own flights, accommodation and other outgoings. Otherwise it would be like having a free holiday in the United States funded by donations intended for charitable causes. Next thing we’ll be asked to believe is that MP’s expenses claims are dodgy.

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John ClarkPosted on1:33 am - Dec 27, 2013


bad capt madman says: (302)
December 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm
‘….If we are to find out, it behoves us to ask OSCR to look into it.
I know I will…’
——–
There would be sheer serendipity in the fact that Commander John Livesey, RN is both a Trustee of the Rangers Foundation and an avid Man City supporter, and sat in the directors’ box at Ibrox while his submariners and others cavorted about the pitch at an asbestos riddled stadium. Oh, what fun!

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John ClarkPosted on1:44 am - Dec 27, 2013


I meant to add, might he have been known to Mr Wallace?

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John ClarkPosted on2:17 am - Dec 27, 2013


LUGOSI99 says: (10)
December 27, 2013 at 1:30 am
‘… or go directly to the Foundation and ask them…’
——–
Just as an aside, I was astounded to learn that it is not part of OSCR’s legal brief to give the names of the Trustees of any Charity.!
One is told to make an approach to the individual charity for details or for a copy of their published details in their annual report.
That would suggest to me that OSCR does not give a tuppenny toss about checking out the bona fides of the trustees.
A bit like the unconcern of the SFA as regards fit and proper persons……..

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causaludendiPosted on3:12 am - Dec 27, 2013


redetin says: (256)
December 26, 2013 at 2:00 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is it not about time they took a long hard look at themselves when this is what they’re preaching to kids. Not that I disagree with what they preach…

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/ssfa/scottish_football.cfm?page=3811

Spirit of the Game

SCHOOLS’ FOOTBALL : THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME

The principal objective of the Scottish Schools’ Football Association (SSFA) is to foster the mental, moral and physical development and improvement of pupils through the medium of Association Football and to that end the SSFA offers the following paragraphs for consideration by everyone involved in Schools’ football.

1. CODE OF CONDUCT FOR PLAYERS

(a) Learn and observe the laws of the game.

(b) Beat opponents by skill and not by unfair means.

(c) Never argue with the referee or linesmen.

(d) Retire quickly when a free kick is given against you.

(e) Do not appeal for throw-ins, offsides, free kicks, etc.

(f) Give the ball promptly to opponents for throw-ins, free kicks, etc.

(g) If an opponent gives you the ball for throw-ins etc, do not take advantage of him being out of position.

(h) Keep your self-control at all times and do not retaliate.

(i) Do not overact when your team scores a goal.

(j) Accept victory modestly and defeat graciously remembering that your school will be judged by your behaviour.
…”

That is just the start. I urge everyone to go and have a look. It has left me utterly speechless when I consider the attitudes and behaviour demonstrated by the high heid-yins. Scunnered comes nowhere close. Mare brass-neck than auld Nick himsel’.

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JLeeHookerPosted on7:45 am - Dec 27, 2013


nickmcguinness on December 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm

“Has Rangers Football Club received funds from Rangers Charity Foundation in exchange for these thousands of ‘free’ tickets?”

I have just sent 12 tweets to various journos (and Phil) asking that very question. Somehow I don’t think I will hear anything back 🙁

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DaktariPosted on9:16 am - Dec 27, 2013


One of Charles Green’s initiatives was to discontinue freebie tickets being distributed to players and staff for home games, allegedly. This scheme, I assume, must have saved a penny or two over the course of a season. I have no idea if this is arrangement has been adopted by the new paymasters.

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JLeeHookerPosted on9:24 am - Dec 27, 2013


jimlarkin says: (722)

December 27, 2013 at 8:58 am

Did you tweet “”britney” Spiers, mark daly, alex thomson, hugh keevins, stuart cosgrove etc etc…not that it will make a great deal of difference…they’ll all plead ignorance or basically ignore they even received the tweet in the 1st place.
Cowards.

I sent “Has Rangers received funds from Rangers Charity Foundation in exchange for these thousands of ‘free’ tickets?” to the following twitter accounts:

@Pmacgiollabhain, @TomEnglishSport, @BBCchrismclaug, @GrahamSpiers, @STVGrant, @SkySports_Keith, @STV_Andy, @bbcjimspence, @JimDelahunt, @DarrylBroadfoot, @StewartMRegan and @BBCSportScot

As I say, I am not really expecting to get anywhere – especially from the SFA peeps. However, at least the question is out there. 👿

I did include Phil Mac Giolla Bhain but he would have to take time off from giving the SMSM free tutorials on how to do their jobs. 😀

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redetinPosted on9:27 am - Dec 27, 2013


jean7brodie says: (395)
December 26, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Big Pink says: (152)
December 26, 2013 at 2:55 pm
1964 -70 for me. Ted McKenna and SAHB – brings back great memories. It wis wee Sammy Gallagher and Percival
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gallagher was the Latin teacher – not interested in fitba.
Wee Percy was Gerry Muldoon, who played cricket for West of Scotland.
At that time, the teachers were out wi the teams every Saturday. Also with rugby teams, which gave football rejects like me a chance to run aboot wi a ba. Are teachers still putting their time into Saturday football?

I didn’t know Ted McKenna. But Jimme O’Neill (my 2nd cousin) of the Silencers was around my time.

I joined a street game in Coates St one evening after school. The posts were a lamp post and the adjacent wall, one set either side of the street. So it was a kind of diagonal game with a tennis ball. Seemed every time the ball came in my direction one of the regulars would should “dummy”, a term I’d never heard, but I soon figured it out.

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andygraham.66Posted on9:54 am - Dec 27, 2013


Henry Templeton (dad of David, ex Ayr player hence my viewing) has put on Facebook that they are selling their two best players in January.

Not said who but you have to think Wallace is a given.

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BawsmanPosted on9:56 am - Dec 27, 2013


Andy…………..Who’s buying them?

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on10:28 am - Dec 27, 2013


jimlarkin on December 27, 2013 at 8:58 am

You’ve taken that a bit far Jim. To tar the likes of Mark Daly and Alex Thomson with the same brush as the embarrassingly neutral Spiers and Hugh Keevins is quite frankly ludicrous.

I may be biased but there’s two journalists there and two puppets.

With regards to the ‘free’ tickets situation, if true, the whole house of cards may be about to come tumbling down. Wonderful times to be working as an Ibrox spin doctor 😆

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Tif FinnPosted on10:49 am - Dec 27, 2013


I think you will find that the Rangers loyal will be the victims in this.

If money has been taken from the foundation it will have been the spivs who did it, not Rangers. If anything Rangers will be the victims.

Like it was Whyte who stole the tax and VAT which caused their administration and ultimate liquidation, not Rangers. etc etc etc.

They really are capable of separating who owns and operates a business from the business itself when that suits their purposes.

It’s like their “history”, keep the bits you fancy and get rid of the bits you don’t. So you get to keep 140 years and 9 in a row, but you get to lose tens of millions in debt.

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jimlarkinPosted on11:05 am - Dec 27, 2013


redetin says: (257)
December 27, 2013 at 9:27 am
0 0 Rate This

jean7brodie says: (395)
December 26, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Big Pink says: (152)
December 26, 2013 at 2:55 pm
1964 -70 for me. Ted McKenna and SAHB – brings back great memories. It wis wee Sammy Gallagher and Percival
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gallagher was the Latin teacher – not interested in fitba.
Wee Percy was Gerry Muldoon, who played cricket for West of Scotland.
At that time, the teachers were out wi the teams every Saturday. Also with rugby teams, which gave football rejects like me a chance to run aboot wi a ba. Are teachers still putting their time into Saturday football?

I didn’t know Ted McKenna. But Jimme O’Neill (my 2nd cousin) of the Silencers was around my time.

I joined a street game in Coates St one evening after school. The posts were a lamp post and the adjacent wall, one set either side of the street. So it was a kind of diagonal game with a tennis ball. Seemed every time the ball came in my direction one of the regulars would should “dummy”, a term I’d never heard, but I soon figured it out.

===================

Redetin

Are you heading to see jimme o’neill in concert tonight or/and tomorrow night in their annual appearance in scotland ?
Always a brilliant gig !

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Greenock JackPosted on11:11 am - Dec 27, 2013


Tif
Before you talk about victims, I suggest you present some kind of evidence. There is a history of erroneous presumption on the part of RTC and TSFM.

In the hypothetical scenario that RIFC are being paid for these tickets by RCF then it would be a case of the support having been deceived via the website where it states that Rangers donated the tickets.

If this were to have taken place, who at RIFC would have had pushed the idea ? I don’t think that RCF would have came up with it.

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Tif FinnPosted on11:29 am - Dec 27, 2013


If

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jimlarkinPosted on11:29 am - Dec 27, 2013


THE Rangers saga has felt like the never-ending story of Scottish football – and judging by yesterday’s Hotline we should expect more of the same in 2014.

Already, Ally McCoist seems to be singing from a different hymn sheet to that of new Ibrox CEO Graham Wallace when it comes to budgets. Unsurprisingly, both of them are getting it in the neck.

First up with some festive cheer, Dunky Robertson, London, said: “McCoist is asking fans to keep buying season tickets and put their money into the club but he’s a hypocrite. He’s been pocketing almost £800,000 a year for competing in leagues full of pan handlers and hammer throwers.

“He ought to look himself in the mirror and take that big pay cut he’s been talking about for so long.”

John Bruce, Glasgow, said: “There must be radical change in the way the business is run at Ibrox. The old system of trying to buy success almost killed the club.

“The early signs are that Wallace has recognised this and is willing to make tough decisions but McCoist has been the one constant through the turmoil. His salary is ludicrous and in order to make the changes to take the club forward, Rangers’ £1.5million management team could be one of the first cost-cutting measures.”

And Jimmy Findlay, Lennoxtown, said: “I’m a Celtic fan and don’t like to talk about other clubs’ managers but I can’t believe McCoist has overstepped the mark and had a pop at Wallace.

“When will he realise if the man says there’s no money to spend then there’s no money to spend? McCoist’s job is to pick the team and he should leave the finance people to deal with budgets.”

But Wallace didn’t escape the flak either.

Ian McAllister, Banff, said: “Wallace has a cheek urging Rangers fans to get behind them and not rock the boat. If that’s what he wants he should be honest with supporters and tell them who the mystery shareholders are behind Blue Pitch and Margarita.

“If it turns out to be someone like Craig Whyte or Charles Green, Rangers will be ripped apart. He’s lying to punters and treating them with contempt.”

On the other side of the Old Firm divide, they’re not exactly jumping for joy either.

Chris McBride, Ayr, said: “This will be remembered as the Year of the Board. One half are fed up with theirs and the other half are just completely bored at Christmas. The attendance figures Celtic are posting are laughable.

“Between now and the end of the season there’s just a Scottish Cup tie against Aberdeen to look forward to.”

Pat Thompson, Parkhead, said: “I know it’s the panto season but who is Georgios Samaras trying to kid when he says he’ll never down tools at Celtic even if his contract runs out?

“That’s a real Christmas cracker because there have been countless games when he hasn’t looked interested in a Celtic shirt. The fact Neil Lennon is trying to get rid of him is the best present I could have wished for.”

And Bob Matheson, Banff, emailed: “There seems to be a serious lack of brain cells in the Celtic boardroom. To allow a wrong statement to appear on their website is ridiculous. They should get real.”

Elsewhere, Paul Bradstock, Kilmarnock, wants Rugby Park hitman Kris Boyd to lead the line for Scotland. He said: “Gordon Strachan should make Boyd his No.1 striker for the Euro campaign. It makes sense to build the team around the greatest goalscorer in SPL history. If he gets the service, I’m certain he can fire us to France 2016.”

Finally, Alan Lough, Dunbar, gives us all something to look forward to in the New Year.

He said: “I’m a huge Lionel Messi fan and I see he’s now recovered from the injuries that saw him miss 24 games in 2013. I’m really looking forward to his return in 2014 – and so should everyone who loves football.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sports-hotline-friday-december-27-2963441?

………………………………..

Let’s look at one caller in particular…

John Bruce, Glasgow, said: “There must be radical change in the way the business is run at Ibrox.
The old system of trying to buy success almost killed the club.

===================================================

“Almost” killed the Club !!

Where do we start with an imbecile like that ?

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Greenock JackPosted on11:36 am - Dec 27, 2013


Tif
Using scenario painted, who at Ibrox pushes or signs off the initiative ?
What level of responsibility would be required, boardroom ?

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jimlarkinPosted on11:40 am - Dec 27, 2013


27-Dec-13 09:32:35 bid 33.00 50,000 Sell* 33.00 ask 34.00 = £16,500

Someone dumped 50 thousand “international’ PLC shares today – Ally, was that you, you sc-Ally-wag ?

Getting the cash in while the shares are still “worth” something and before the pay “cut” bites !

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Danish PastryPosted on11:59 am - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock Jack says: (243)
December 27, 2013 at 11:11 am (Edit)
2 2 Rate This

Tif
Before you talk about victims, I suggest you present some kind of evidence. There is a history of erroneous presumption on the part of RTC and TSFM.

In the hypothetical scenario that RIFC are being paid for these tickets by RCF then it would be a case of the support having been deceived via the website where it states that Rangers donated the tickets.

If this were to have taken place, who at RIFC would have had pushed the idea? I don’t think that RCF would have came up with it.
————–

What I wonder is, why involve RCF at all? Free tickets can surely be distributed from the ticket office to the appropriate organizations, whether it be for the homeless or others in need. They are just free tickets. Giving free tickets to youth clubs or other causes is a nice wee gesture. The idea of dipping into charity monies to finance them looks very much like a wee backdoor earner, if that is what happened.

JLeeHooker has asked the right question (09.24). Hopefully, an answer will be forthcoming.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:04 pm - Dec 27, 2013


So fans contribute to RCF by attending games/functions

the RCF use that money to give RFC tickets to homeless and kids.

Not to Erskine or Sick Kids hospitals

How do bears feel about that – is that what you thought the money would be contributing to?

And now, given the appetite to “starve the spiv out” with match boycotts, knowing the RCF is also funding the spivs – will the bears all for a boycott of RCF activities too?

Looks to me like the Spivs really are ripping it out of them. Though, no protests at yesterdays game – unless you count the players “downing tools”

Looks like more of the same in 2014 (which makes me smile!)

don’t say you haven’t been warned.

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Greenock JackPosted on12:26 pm - Dec 27, 2013


DP
The story on the Rangers website would seem reasonably clear.

“RANGERS has today donated……..”
“Earlier this month the club donated 2,000 Ayr United tickets to local schools, community groups and charities……”

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5860-gers-give-tickets-to-homeless

The RCF could be involved because of contacts/infrastructure so as to distribute tickets efficently. I don’t know how these things work.

Evidence is required to back up claims being made.
If you could find it, you’d be looking at misleading the support via the website.
Spiv tactic ? Who exactly ?

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Tif FinnPosted on12:54 pm - Dec 27, 2013


It really is a very simple point.

If Rangers have supplied free / complimentary tickets before then why involve the foundation at all this time.

At best that takes up foundation time and resources, creating an expense to that organisation which serves no purpose. Rangers have the infrastructure in place to simply supply the tickets straight to the school, charity or whatever.

Now if the foundation were being given them free, to sell on and make money for the charity I could understand that. However as they are simply giving them away it makes no sense to put in an extra, unnecessary step.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on1:01 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock, after all this time, you still have faith in the Ibrox Boardroom and their relationship to the Charity.

Given all thats passed your 1st instinct is to defend them…..why?

Is it simply because the allegation is coming from Internet Bampots (occasionally of the Celtic persuasion) or because you still believe the clumpany are not ripping the pi55 out of the supporters?

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Greenock JackPosted on1:02 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Tif
The argument could be made that the distribution involved is far more suited to RCF than RIFC.

That to make sure it is done properly and efficently, you give it to the people who do it best.
That there would probably be funds (relatively small amount) used in the mechanics of this.
That this spend is worth it, ensuring the distribution is carried out effectively and in a balanced way.

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Tif FinnPosted on1:03 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Slightly different story on the foundation website

http://www.rangerscharity.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=462&Itemid=71

Boxing Day Tickets For Homeless

Rangers FC and the Foundation has donated over 600 tickets for the Boxing Day fixture against Stranraer at Ibrox to people who are affected by homelessness and living in isolated circumstances.

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Tif FinnPosted on1:09 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Sorry but this bit tickled me

According to the foundation

“Each person attending the game will also receive a voucher for a pie and a hot drink.”

However according to the club

“Each person attending the game will also receive a voucher for a hot meal and drink.”

Let’s see if I can guess what the hot meal is, a pie maybe.

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Greenock JackPosted on1:09 pm - Dec 27, 2013


NTHM
You’ve not read my posts very closely if you think I make excuses for the spivs or trust them as far as I could throw them. However this type of allegation does little more than to give posters on here another lead to follow unless it is accompanied by something at least a little tangible.

Sometimes it’s the wee things that can bring people down and if allegations were true and a real link could be made to a boardroom spiv then I’d be the first to congratulate whoever flagged it up. However we are a long way from that point.

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neepheidPosted on1:12 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock Jack says: (245)
December 27, 2013 at 12:26 pm

Evidence is required to back up claims being made.
If you could find it, you’d be looking at misleading the support via the website.
Spiv tactic ? Who exactly ?
===============
The allegation, and it no more than that, is that RCF are buying these free tickets from TRFC, basically to transfer funds from the charity to the “club” to help out with a major cash flow issue.

I don’t know the facts. Neither does anyone else on this forum. What I find disappointing is that not a single journalist asks the very obvious questions- who gave these tickets away, and if it was the charity, did they pay for them. These are not difficult questions to ask, yet not one single journalist in Scotland is prepared to ask them.That, in itself, begs a few worrying questions about the society we live in. If all is above board, the charity would reply, yes, we gave them away and the club gave them to us for nothing, Or, we never had the tickets, the club gave them away direct to a list of people we recommended.

If I was a supporter of “The Rangers”, I would want immediate answers from club and charity to the two questions I have pointed to. Is there any enthusiasm whatsoever amongst the support for asking these questions, much less dealing with the answers? No, I thought not. In fact anyone who questions these arrangements, even in the most open-minded manner, will be branded as a “Timposter”, and suffer the extremely unpleasant consequences if their identity ever becomes public.

You are clearly a proud Rangers man, Greenockjack, and I have no issue with that. So why don’t you establish the true facts for us? I’m sure that the facts are known to some posters on the various Rangers forums. Shouldn’t be difficult, should it? Well, not in a perfect world, anyway. Unfortunately we (in the West of Scotland) live in an environment where asking honest questions can be a dangerous pastime. Which takes us to the heart of this forum. Why can’t we just ask simple questions and get simple answers? And even more to the point of this forum, why don’t the “free” press do it on our behalf?

I will be sending yet another of my futile emails to the RCF shortly, asking my two questions, the answers to which I think will either lay to this whole matter to rest, or blow the whole thing apart. I will copy my mail to the laughable “regulator” and my MSP. Do I expect any substantive replies? No I don’t. Which is truly a sad state of affairs.

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wottpiPosted on1:27 pm - Dec 27, 2013


While the link between ‘the club’ and charity needs to be monitored given events of the past I can’t help feeling we are getting side tracked by the issue of free tickets.

It is not so long ago that all and sundry on here were accusing T’Rangers cynically trying to boost crowd numbers by giving free tickets away. Therefore why would they wanted to be tarred with that brush again? Far better to involve the charity and make clear who the tickets are intended for.

The small numbers involved are hardly going to resolve the cash flow problems even if money has changed hands between the company and the foundation. In fact it probably doesn’t cover Sally’s lunch.

View Comment

Greenock JackPosted on2:05 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Neepheid

Rangers have stated on their website that they have donated the tickets.
Do you think Scottish football jornalists are going to start asking the club those questions and at the same time infer that the club are misleading or lying on the official site ? Whatever the facts of the matter, you’d might aswell believe in Santa Claus.
Nor does it ask worrying questions about our society, it simply means that the hack (and editor) ain’t going to cut off the hand that feeds him for their backpages.

Is it worthy of a news reporters attention ? Perhaps it merits a phonecall or e-mail to see what they are told but you need a little bit of tangible to be produced before you can reasonably expect this to go further.

As for forums, if it were spivs up to no good I don’t think you’d find that current schemes or the details would be widely known throughout the internet.

Then you hit on the ‘trust’ factor and where allegations orginated. I’ve asked questions of other clubs on this forum that IMO deserved an answer or investigation but that was supposedly ‘trolling’ (I find that worrying). The overall enviroment certainly makes it easier for all to get away without due vigilance, from their own support or the media.

If I find something that can justifiably be used against a spiv, the world will get to know about it.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:18 pm - Dec 27, 2013


http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5860-gers-give-tickets-to-homeless

In the personal chaos which usually follows homelessness I truly believe that the last thing on anyone’s mind in that situation would be going along to watch a football match on a freezing day. It all just smacks of a cheap, rather tasteless PR stunt.

It actually takes me back to my very poor upbringing as a child in the Gorbals when the highlight of the week was going to the Tent Hall on a Sunday to get a free biscuit and cup of tea. But the catch was that you had to sit through the service first because the organisers as I came to realise as I grew up were fishing for converts and not acting on a strictly charitable motive. Still the Tent Hall was far more entertaining than the Stranraer game appears to have been and certainly there was more passion.

The interesting thing about the official club statement is that it states Rangers/Rangers Football Club supplied the tickets with a rather wooly statement thrown-in that: ‘We will continue to support those in need through the Rangers Charity Foundation’. In view of the PR speak which oozes from Ibrox I don’t read that statement as a definite declaration that the Rangers Charity Foundation actually supplied the tickets in question and indeed it appears that it was Rangers/Rangers Football Club.

Working with the homeless is a specialist, long-term project and handing out some ‘free’ match tickets once a year most certainly doesn’t: ‘Help challenge some of the stigma associated with homelessness’ as Rangers seems to think.

And, of course, I haven’t even touched on the serious situation which would arise if the Rangers Charity Foundation actually paid TRFCL for the cost of the tickets. I think TRFCL should be making a definitve statement that isn’t the case and that the cost was actually borne by TRFCL and not RCF and that there is no hidden sleight of hand over adminstration costs.

Sadly the track-record of Rangers in this regard is shocking and it’s time those who supervise Scottish charities were cleaning-up this particular Stygian Stable – still it won’t be long before Hector is knocking on the Ibrox doors. Ok Ok I know it was Hercules but I couldn’t resist it.

I also note a contradiction in the statement on the RCF website – but this is the Rangers Way it would seem – confuse, confuse, confuse ❗

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FIFAPosted on2:28 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Last season there where thousands of free tickets being given to supporter clubs ,is this still happening,all this was kept quite until the story broke through some young fans .

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ecobhoyPosted on2:43 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock Jack says: (248)
December 27, 2013 at 2:05 pm

If I find something that can justifiably be used against a spiv, the world will get to know about it.
=======================================================================
I can but ask who will tell the world – it most certainly won’t be the corrupt and spineless SMSM. So even if you find something it will be ignored except on sites like this.

The latest cast-iron case I have against the SMSM is the incomplete and erroneous Annual Return filed by TRFCL. I know for a fact that at least three well-known Scottish journos actually did follow this up because of the blatant failures in the return.

They were ignored by Companies House and no actual answers provided despite the errors and failure to adhere to the statutory requirements. So what did these journos from major Scottish media organisations do? Yip that’s right NOTHING ❗

They could have run a story pointing out the evasion by Companies House or even taken a formal complaint out and ran that as a story.

And eventually a few days ago TRFCL had to file another return to correct the errors in the Public Register at Companies House created by the incomplete Annual Return.

So everything’s fine now? Well no it isn’t because the latest return is also incomplete because it only gives us a snapshot of the TRFCL shareholding on 18 December 2012 when what is statutorily required is a list of all TRFCL share dealings from Incorporation of Sevco Scotland (subsequently TRFCL) in May 2012 until June 2013.

Has Companies House noticed; Has any journo noticed? Of course not. Is it important? Well it might be because it throws-up interesting points like the 2.6 million Margarita share were transferred to ATP in June 2012 and yet for the recent RIFC agm the official RIFC website states that the 2.6 million Margarita shares proxy has been given to Easdale. But how could that be if the Margarita shares were transferred to another company almost 18 months ago?

Perhaps there is a simple answer and if we had a complete TRFCL Annual Return we might actually be able to understand what has taken place. Ever the optimist 😆

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davythelotionPosted on2:47 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Just watched “Enron:the smartest men in the room’. The hubris coupled with the belief that more money will come along via a combination of false accounting, complicit lawyers, bankers, politicians, journalists, regulators, shareholders and employees, led to innocent shareholders, employees and consumers being ripped off repeatedly whilst those in the know cashed their chips.
The thing about a lie is that everyone needs to believe it. No one should be allowed to question the plan. Enough space should be between the lie and the beneficiaries to allow them to claim innocence.
Despite jack’s best efforts on RM, the dam is starting to break.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on3:09 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1089)
December 27, 2013 at 12:54 pm

It really is a very simple point.

If Rangers have supplied free / complimentary tickets before then why involve the foundation at all this time.

At best that takes up foundation time and resources, creating an expense to that organisation which serves no purpose. Rangers have the infrastructure in place to simply supply the tickets straight to the school, charity or whatever.

Now if the foundation were being given them free, to sell on and make money for the charity I could understand that. However as they are simply giving them away it makes no sense to put in an extra, unnecessary step.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Is it to do with VAT? If the club gives them away direct then they account for VAT but the charity doesn’t have to.

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Danish PastryPosted on3:33 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock Jack says: (248)
December 27, 2013 at 12:26 pm
8 17 Rate This
————

I’m not sure a day out cheering on Stranraer would be that bad myself. There’s nothing better than a David and Goliath contest where wee guy wae the catty wins – and 1-1 was a triumph. Throw in a pie and a hot drink to fight off hypothermia and it almost sounds like a day oot in the bleak midwinter.

But seriously, having followed corsicacharity’s investigations, I can understand the cynicism. Perhaps Edminston House could be turned into a centre or hostel for the homeless and socially vulnerable? That really would be giving back to the community.

As you say, a phone call or email to the relevant bodies should clear it up.

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Tif FinnPosted on3:53 pm - Dec 27, 2013


If they give them away free then what taxable supply is being made and what VAT needs accounted for. 20% of nothing is still nothing.

It is true that Rangers have claimed to have donated those tickets, on their website. However it is also true that the Foundation claim to have given them away, on their own website. Both links are above.

The question remains, if the Foundation were involved then in what capacity. Rangers are a football club, who have given tickets away before, so why does the foundation need to be involved this time. If it is a PR stunt by the club fine, then just give the tickets away and claim any kudos you think you are due, as indeed you have done on your own website.

If this has nothing to do with the Foundation, and there is no mention of them in the Rangers article, then why are they trying to claim credit for it.

========================================

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5860-gers-give-tickets-to-homeless

RANGERS has today donated 650 tickets for the Boxing Day fixture against Stranraer at Ibrox to people who are affected by homelessness and living in isolated circumstances.

Strike star Jon Daly handed over tickets to former Light Blues defender Ally Dawson, who works closely with homeless charities, and representatives from a number of organisations at Murray Park this afternoon.

Blue Triangle, Council for Homeless Young People, Cross Reach, Glasgow City Mission, Glasgow Simon Community, Phoenix Futures, Quarriers, The Salvation Army, Scottish Christian Alliance, Second Chance Project, Turning Point Scotland, SAMH (Scottish Association for Mental Health), Emmaus Glasgow, The Mungo Foundation, The Talbot Association, Bethany Christian Trust and Aspire have all received tickets via the Rangers Charity Foundation for Thursday’s home fixture.

Each person attending the game will also receive a voucher for a hot meal and drink.

Daly said: “It will be our pleasure to welcome those who are affected by homelessness and living in isolated circumstances to Ibrox on Boxing Day.

“Rangers Football Club is totally committed to making a positive difference to the lives of people in the local and wider communities and we are delighted to offer match tickets for our game against Stranraer this Christmas.

“Earlier this month the club donated 2,000 Ayr United tickets to local schools, community groups and charities as a thank you for the support it receives from the wider Govan area each season and we will continue to support those in need through the Rangers Charity Foundation.”

Pauline Bermingham, Practitioner at Turning Point Scotland’s Glasgow Alcohol and Rehabilitation Service in Maryhill, added: “Winter and the festive period can be a particularly difficult time of year for people who experience homelessness so we welcome this kind gesture from Rangers.

“Everyone who has been given tickets is really looking forward to the game.

“Anyone can find themselves without a home if their financial or personal circumstances change suddenly so hopefully this generous offer from such a high profile club like Rangers will help challenge some of the stigma associated with homelessness.”

========================================

http://www.rangerscharity.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=462&Itemid=71

Boxing Day Tickets For Homeless

Rangers FC and the Foundation has donated over 600 tickets for the Boxing Day fixture against Stranraer at Ibrox to people who are affected by homelessness and living in isolated circumstances.

Strike star Jon Daly handed over tickets to former Light Blues defender Ally Dawson, who works closely with homeless charities, and Turning Point Scotland resident Robert Pollock.

Blue Triangle, Council for Homeless Young People, Cross Reach, Glasgow City Mission, Glasgow Simon Community, Phoenix Futures, Quarriers, The Salvation Army, Scottish Christian Alliance, Second Chance Project, Turning Point Scotland, SAMH (Scottish Association for Mental Health), Emmaus Glasgow, The Mungo Foundation, The Talbot Association, Bethany Christian Trust and Aspire have all received tickets via the Rangers Charity Foundation for the Christmas fixture against Stranraer.

Each person attending the game will also receive a voucher for a pie and a hot drink.

Jon Daly commented: “It will be our pleasure to welcome those who are affected by homelessness and living in isolated circumstances to Ibrox on Boxing Day.

“Rangers Football Club is totally committed to making a positive difference to the lives of people in the local and wider communities and we are delighted to offer match tickets for our game against Stranraer this Christmas.

“Earlier this month the Club donated 2000 Ayr Utd tickets to local schools, community groups and charities as a thank you for the support the Club receives from the wider Govan area each season and we will continue to support those in need through the Rangers Charity Foundation.”

Pauline Bermingham, Practitioner at Turning Point Scotland’s Glasgow Alcohol and Rehabilitation Service, in Maryhill, said: “Winter and the festive period can be a particularly difficult time of year for people who experience homelessness, so we welcome this kind gesture from Rangers. Everyone who has been given tickets is really looking forward to the game.

“Anyone can find themselves without a home if their financial or personal circumstances change suddenly, so hopefully this generous offer from such a high profile club like Rangers will help challenge some of the stigma associated with homelessness.”

View Comment

neepheidPosted on3:55 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock Jack says: (248)
December 27, 2013 at 2:05 pm
2 25 Rate This

Neepheid

Rangers have stated on their website that they have donated the tickets.
Do you think Scottish football jornalists are going to start asking the club those questions and at the same time infer that the club are misleading or lying on the official site ? Whatever the facts of the matter, you’d might aswell believe in Santa Claus.
Nor does it ask worrying questions about our society, it simply means that the hack (and editor) ain’t going to cut off the hand that feeds him for their backpages.

======================================
Asking for clarification infers nothing. It is the basic job of a competent journalist .

The fact that the press won’t bite the hand that feeds it is precisely what worries me- and should concern everyone, in my opinion.. That just says to me that if you feed the press enough lamb, money, access or whatever, then no awkward questions will ever be asked.

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wottpiPosted on3:59 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Earlier posts got stuck in moderation so…

For what it is worth I think we are making a meal of the free tickets for the homeless issue.
Yes the link between ‘the club’ and the foundation needs to be monitored due to past events but if ‘the club’ wants to give free tickets away, via whatever outlets, to the homeless, the armed forces or uncle Tom Cobbly then that is their choice.

Our dislike and distrust of the spivs et al shouldn’t blacken our own hearts.

Even if cash or reallocation of admin resouces is involved the numbers involved aren’t going to make diddly squat difference to the financial mess ‘the club’ is in.

I for one am always find it heartwarming when those who can afford it least sometimes give out more than those whose pockets are lined with cash.

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Tif FinnPosted on4:13 pm - Dec 27, 2013


What difference it makes to the club is not the point, it’s what difference it makes to the charity and more importantly it’s funds.

Bottom line, was there any cost to them at all. Whether it be administration costs, purchase of the tickets or whatever.

The foundation really doesn’t have a good history of costs v gifts / donations. Add that to the disgrace that was the money being stolen from two charities for the Milan game and it’s no wonder people are suspicious.

View Comment

Greenock JackPosted on4:13 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Echo
The interesting thing about the official club statement is that it states Rangers/Rangers Football Club supplied the tickets
———————————————————–
The term used on the official site was “donated”, not “supplied”.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5860-gers-give-tickets-to-homeless

This doesn’t leave much room to ‘mislead’, ie. they have simply donated the tickets to the RCF who in turn have distributed them or they haven’t and they are lying.

The RCF website article does cause some confusion though.

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Tif FinnPosted on4:16 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Oh and on the VAT issue, that’s what happened with the Milan game.

If memory serves the tickets were originally priced at £10, however when it was decided that the money was going to the club instead of the named charities the price went up to £12. A clear indication that the sale was no longer being made as part of a charity fundraising (where under certain circumstances there is no VAT) and was now a commercial enterprise.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on4:23 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1092)
December 27, 2013 at 4:16 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m working from memory here but on the VAT point isn’t it the case that if samples of the “product” are given away free then VAT has to be accounted for on the value or cost of the sample? Whereas donating them to a charity is zero rated. Hence the involvement of the charity in giving away these tickets.

As for the other tickets given away to supporters clubs etc I suspect VAT has to be accounted for on them.

View Comment

Greenock JackPosted on4:29 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Neepheid
Asking for clarification infers nothing. It is the basic job of a competent journalist .

The fact that the press won’t bite the hand that feeds it is precisely what worries me- and should concern everyone, in my opinion.. That just says to me that if you feed the press enough lamb, money, access or whatever, then no awkward questions will ever be asked.
—————————————————————————————–
When real ‘free’ MSM journalism is slowly being eroded at the top end, to expect Scottish football hacks to buck the trend is optimistic in the extreme. Your only effective protest is not to consume their output.

In this particular case, I don’t think it reasonable to expect sports journalists to do what you bid. It’s for news or financial reporters to ask any questions.

I’ve always said on here that if you want to try to stop this general culture, you have to ‘attack it’ at the top end and wait for changes to filter down. Just as Blair, Murdoch and Campbell helped cultivate it, encourage it and show that it works and includes (if done well) the no accountibility bonus.

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on4:34 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Greenock Jack says: (250)
December 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Neepheid
Asking for clarification infers nothing. It is the basic job of a competent journalist .

The fact that the press won’t bite the hand that feeds it is precisely what worries me- and should concern everyone, in my opinion.. That just says to me that if you feed the press enough lamb, money, access or whatever, then no awkward questions will ever be asked.
—————————————————————————————–
When real ‘free’ MSM journalism is slowly being eroded at the top end, to expect Scottish football hacks to buck the trend is optimistic in the extreme. Your only effective protest is not to consume their output.

In this particular case, I don’t think it reasonable to expect sports journalists to do what you bid. It’s for news or financial reporters to ask any questions.

I’ve always said on here that if you want to try to stop this general culture, you have to ‘attack it’ at the top end and wait for changes to filter down. Just as Blair, Murdoch and Campbell helped cultivate it, encourage it and show that it works and includes (if done well) the no accountibility bonus.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I make you right GJ. What seems to be forgotten in exchanges about press freedom is that the “Press” is just another business acting as cheerleaders for other businesses. Investigative journalism and free speech was very much not on the agenda from the start. Such is the way that the capitalists seek to legitimise their views on most matters.

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Tif FinnPosted on4:34 pm - Dec 27, 2013


The thing about tickets to a football match is that there isn’t really a purchase which relates to that sale. So there is no input tax associated with it, at least directly. So no loss to the revenue if they are simply given away.

I’m not saying there isn’t a VAT issue if the club supplies the tickets directly, however as I said earlier 20% of zero is still zero. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

How would they work out how much VAT they would have to pay if there actually was a liability to output tax.

View Comment

GeronimosCadillacPosted on4:36 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Tif Finn says: (1093)
December 27, 2013 at 4:34 pm

0

0

Rate This

The thing about tickets to a football match is that there isn’t really a purchase which relates to that sale. So there is no input tax associated with it, at least directly. So no loss to the revenue if they are simply given away.

I’m not saying there isn’t a VAT issue if the club supplies the tickets directly, however as I said earlier 20% of zero is still zero. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

How would they work out how much VAT they would have to pay if there actually was a liability to output tax.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

20% of the face value the ticket would normally be sold for.

View Comment

Tif FinnPosted on4:45 pm - Dec 27, 2013


But there would be no taxable supply being made, no payment being received and the transaction would not be in the nature of business.

I’m afraid if that is the case it makes no sense to me.

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StevieBCPosted on4:54 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Just checked the SFA website, and saw their advert for;

“BECOME AN OFFICIAL SCOTTISH FA BUSINESS PARTNER

ADDED VALUE
What else you can expect

♦ Explore new and exciting PR and marketing opportunities by becoming an Official Scottish FA Business Club Partner
♦ Utilise your official title as a Business Club Partner on your company website and marketing inventory
♦ Matchday programme exposure
♦ Your business’ logo will be visible on the new Scottish FA Business Club web page
♦ Receive preferential rates for hiring conference and meeting facilities at Hampden Park
♦ Be the first to hear about new opportunities at the Scottish FA”
=================================================
We can only guess at the short-term and long-term damage that the SFA incompetence / corruption has caused the game across Scotland. The game that the SFA is supposed to protect and develop.

Looking for new revenue streams and corporate sponsors etc. is of course a means to an end, and is necessary.

But what we don’t know, and can’t quantify is: how many decision-makers / companies have dropped plans to become involved with Scottish football – because of how the SFA has behaved in the last couple of years in particular ?

And if the SFA was run properly would they have been able to be more discerning re: their choice of main sponsors – and been able to replace the bookies, the fast food chain, and the junk food manufacturer with more appropriate sponsors for the national game ?

I can only guess, but during the turmoil of the last couple of years, there must have been a considerable amount of SFA resource directed at RFC/TRFC – when it could have been better used to improve the SFA operations and its opportunities.

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Tif FinnPosted on5:00 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Rangers Stranraer highlights if anyone is interested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/25529361

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neepheidPosted on6:26 pm - Dec 27, 2013


From HMRC on free gifts-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/reclaiming/entertainment.htm#6

Business gifts
A business gift is a gift of goods that is made in the course or furtherance of your business, and you can normally reclaim VAT on its purchase.
Business gifts cover a wide range of items from brochures, posters and advertising matter to expensive goods of the kind given as ‘executive presents’.
You do not have to account for VAT on business gifts made to the same person where the total cost of all the gifts does not exceed £50 in any 12-month period (and not the figure of £15 given in VAT Notice 700/35). For this purpose, it is acceptable for you to adopt any 12-month period that includes the day on which the gift is made.
Where the total cost of any business gifts made to the same person in any 12-month period exceeds £50 and you have been entitled to reclaim VAT, you will normally have to account for VAT on the total cost value of all the gifts.

View Comment

coatbrigbhoyPosted on8:03 pm - Dec 27, 2013


http://www.rangerscharity.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=462&Itemid=71

Boxing Day Tickets For Homeless

Rangers FC and the Foundation has donated over 600 tickets for the Boxing Day fixture against Stranraer at Ibrox to people who are affected by homelessness and living in isolated circumstances.

Rangers FC “AND” the Foundation,

so ,not via, or through, or by way of,

View Comment

jean7brodiePosted on9:02 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Very quiet on here tonight ❓

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Danish PastryPosted on9:04 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Some tasty tweets from Gregory Ioannidis today:

Gregory Ioannidis
@LawTop20

I am sorry to say this but by allowing the ‘sporting continuity’ argument to exist, UEFA are just making a mockery of their rules.
6:44pm – 27 Dec 13

View Comment

Galling fiverPosted on9:22 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Been lurking in utter disbelief WRT the very unsuccessful, for a very long time, “charity” farce over at .

A monster has been created down Govan way, they answer to no one, they will stop at nothing, and stoop regularly to new depths of unacceptable.

But one thing is for sure, had the AGM been anything other than a squirrel, surely the piss poor performance and dubiousness of the “charity” situation would have been a show stopper on the agenda for the board, especially since they could have draped sojies and poppies awe over it.

Was it not a similar thing that started the ball rolling at Third Lanark, dipping the prize draw money or something, rigging the winner type thing.

If there is truth in the charity theory, I suspect that anyone greedy and desperate enough to dip the funds, will only need a matter of time to f-ck it all up royally. Please do, carry on.

View Comment

causaludendiPosted on9:23 pm - Dec 27, 2013


jean7brodie says: (396)
December 27, 2013 at 9:02 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nothing good to say…?!

View Comment

jean7brodiePosted on9:32 pm - Dec 27, 2013


causaludendi says: (100)
December 27, 2013 at 9:23 pm

I have!
God bless all honest and honourable people.

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John ClarkPosted on9:48 pm - Dec 27, 2013


GeronimosCadillac says: (153)
December 27, 2013 at 4:34 pm
‘…… What seems to be forgotten in exchanges about press freedom is that the “Press” is just another business acting as cheerleaders for other businesses. Investigative journalism and free speech was very much not on the agenda from the start. Such is the way that the capitalists seek to legitimise their views on most matters…’
————-
The print press of mass circulation days could afford to get stuck in to certain selected targets ( always excluding the friends and business connections of their proprietors, of course!) because they could afford to lose a portion of their readership and advertisers, in the expectation that by running really good teams of investigative journalists, they might gain other readers to increase their circulation figures and hence their advertising-pull.

Now that circulation figures are in free-fall, they cannot afford to offend any but the weakest. And those who, they rightly judge, don’t buy their ‘newspapers’ anyway!

So, old-style ‘investigative print- journalism’ has all but died.

This does NOT excuse succulent lamb-eating propagandists for,and auxiliary PR assistants to, lying, cheating football magnates. They have no defense, but stand convicted of their lack of conviction and principle.

BBC Scotland and BBC Radio Scotland are public service organisations. Bound by Charter to be balanced and impartial, certainly, but also bound to seek truth.

In my view, and with a nod to the Daly documentaries and one or two Radio Scotland folk,the huge story that was there for a long while, and the fall-out from the omnishambles , was deliberately left to partisan supporters on the BBC staff and to equally partisan guest journalists, with the occasional very self-protective ,anodyne contribution from their ‘Business’ reporter.

And none of these even BEGAN to try to grub out the truth, and get in behind the nonsense spouted.

This is old ground, I know.
But we must keep reminding ourselves of the fact that nothing that we have learned had its origins in anything that was discovered by anyone on the BBC or in the MSM.

And we must keep reminding ourselves to treat any observation made by anyone in our newspapers or on our Scottish BBC with great circumspection as possibly being deliberately misleading if not downright untrue.

As far as anything coming from the SFA is concerned……….?

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GeronimosCadillacPosted on9:53 pm - Dec 27, 2013


neepheid says: (959)
December 27, 2013 at 6:26 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The free tickets are not “business gifts” but free samples of the “product”. VAT has to be accounted for, as noted above, if they are given to potential customers but not if they are donated to charity and the charity then distributes or sells them.

View Comment

ianagainPosted on9:54 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Back to Danish’s original musings.
We had scraped out goals (exactly measured by the resident goalie or nutter) on the cemetery wall in our wee neck of the woods. As with a few reminisces before many a Baxter White Law etc were born by absolutely hammering stinging shots at said nutter in the confines of the road, traffic permitting.
Later decamped due to too many broken windaes and car mirrors to the long grass up the field. Bit like ploughman’s fitba.
Later in semi organised fashion partook of various hammerings/glorious victories on queens park recs/the Green and all the usual clinker cauldrons which in the summer could see you down with some serious respiratory stuff and very black bogies. Actually still have a black scar on my shin I’m sure residue from some steelworks that will never go away.
One memory of playing with/against any one of note was we for a few summers we would have a kick about Sundays at Friarton road pitches Merrylea (by climbing over usually). Kenny Dalglish often played (rings round most) he lived nearby from memory in Burrelton rd.

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jean7brodiePosted on10:05 pm - Dec 27, 2013


ianagain says: (61)
December 27, 2013 at 9:54 pm

ianagain and all you other stalwarts, you are the honourable and honest folk I was referring to above. These unsullied days are gone and it is a huge loss. Sorry, no questions as per the remit of this site but just pure admiration for your tenacity and passion.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:05 pm - Dec 27, 2013


A “wow just wow” moment for me.

On follow follow they are discussing McKay going on loan to Morton. A poster called “thebluenosebear” with over 15,000 posts has this to say.

============================================================

I absolutely detest Morton, didn’t care for them before liquidation but I was taken aback by just how much hate and glee for our predicament there fans had.

Makes me sick to think we are possibly helping them stay up and in turn getting a payday from us next season.

As for loaning the player pretty ridiculous move; at times last season that young kid was the only one worth going to watch

====================================================================

Ignoring the bile for a second, he actually acknowledges that the liquidation happened. That they didn’t just go into administration, that they were actually liquidated.

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ianagainPosted on10:10 pm - Dec 27, 2013


On the business front RFC continue the dismal progress for the shareholeders.

Time/Date

Code

Headline

Source

Impact

12:47 24-Dec-2013 RFC Holding(s) in Company RNS 0.00%

10:52 23-Dec-2013 RFC Director’s Dealing in shares RNS -1.18% Down

15:21 19-Dec-2013 RFC Result of AGM RNS -2.90% Down

10:45 19-Dec-2013 RFC Annual General Meeting statement RNS -2.90% Down

07:00 17-Dec-2013 RFC Annual General Meeting RNS -5.35% Down

07:00 11-Dec-2013 RFC Board Committees RNS -9.61% Down

07:00 10-Dec-2013 RFC Holdings in Company RNS -9.21% Down

13:32 06-Dec-2013 RFC Statement by The Chairman RNS -7.52% Down

07:00 28-Nov-2013 RFC Holding(s) in Company RNS -6.29% Down

07:00 26-Nov-2013 RFC Notice of AGM RNS -3.29% Down

18:00 22-Nov-2013 RFC Holding(s) in Company RNS -1.17% Down

12:30 22-Nov-2013 RFC Appointment of Chairman RNS -1.17% Down

12:34 21-Nov-2013 RFC Holding(s) in Company RNS -0.46% Down

07:00 20-Nov-2013 RFC Appointment of CEO RNS -2.62% Down

07:00 14-Nov-2013 RFC Appointment of Director RNS -5.27% Down

17:45 13-Nov-2013 RFC AIM Rule 17 Update RNS -4.15% Down

15:51 12-Nov-2013 RFC Comment on Press Speculation RNS -3.04% Down

12:26 12-Nov-2013 RFC AIM Rule 26 Update RNS -3.04% Down

07:01 07-Nov-2013 RFC Appointment of Director RNS -3.81% Down

07:00 07-Nov-2013 RFC Annual General Meeting RNS -3.81% Down
=========================================================

And still to come:

Will Ticketus lawyers via the CW win pursue ownership of assets?

Who will pocket the 3.9 million in the BDO v Collyers v HMRC v Wavetower ?

Will the holding company bury the football cub with debt?

Will the ex players claims reach court?

Will many of the current Pretendygers wish they had just stayed where they were?

All this and much much more in 2014.

See you all there..

Have a good one.

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Danish PastryPosted on10:28 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Tif Finn on December 27, 2013 at 10:05 pm
2 0 Rate This

A “wow just wow” moment for me.

On follow follow they are discussing McKay going on loan to Morton.
—————

Apropos Morton, I listened to an interview with Kenny Shiels tonight on Inverclyde TV. The man consistently talks a good game and has some very sensible ideas on incorporating youth into teams.

I’m convinced that Ibrox missed a trick when they didn’t show their current management team the door. Shiels was a perfect fit for a team with budget constraints, hoping to nurture and promote home-grown players. It’s almost as if they wanted to run out of cash.

http://inverclyde-tv.com/stories/4249-view-from-the-dugout-27th-dec-2013

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neepheidPosted on10:43 pm - Dec 27, 2013


GeronimosCadillac says: (154)
December 27, 2013 at 9:53 pm
3 0 Rate This

neepheid says: (959)
December 27, 2013 at 6:26 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The free tickets are not “business gifts” but free samples of the “product”. VAT has to be accounted for, as noted above, if they are given to potential customers but not if they are donated to charity and the charity then distributes or sells them.
===========
I diagree. These are complimentary tickets, on which no VAT is chargeable. See the link to a leaflet on “dances”, not quite the same as a football match, but close enough-http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/dances.html

“Where persons are admitted to dances for amounts less than the face-value of the ticket or where no admission is charged (complimentary tickets) the normal VAT rules apply and only the amount actually payable will attract liability.”

There is no reason why the same wouldn’t apply to football. In fact every club dishes out free tickets for every game. I’m pretty sure they won’t be paying VAT on the notional value.

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Tif FinnPosted on10:49 pm - Dec 27, 2013


I agree that no VAT is due on complimentary / free tickets.

There is no consideration and as such I do not see how Value Added Tax can have been charged. Traders only remit the tax they have collected, if they have not collected any tax then there is no remittance due.

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ianagainPosted on10:55 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Neipheid
As a bit of an expert on this 20 years plus.
Your right this is a dead dog. Not due end of.
(Used to pay duty and vat bills for my (aye not “mine” bears!)company of 100 mil plus in the old 17.5%) days
. The basic end user pays has never changed.
So nothing out nothing in.

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toadintheholePosted on11:02 pm - Dec 27, 2013


With regard to the issue of Rangers giving free tickets to the homeless – lots of talk about VAT, but no one seems to be considering the bigger question, namely – haven’t these people suffered enough?

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ianagainPosted on11:10 pm - Dec 27, 2013


Loads of talk on RR of various players going “off the books” in January for one month only in order to return when the high earners are culled.
Oh dear they are doing it again.
Step forward the PFA please.
They never learn.

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