Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

ByTrisidium

Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

A Guest Blog by Auldheid for TSFM

Honesty requires both transparency and accountability. In pursuit of honest, transparent and accountable governance of Scottish football, and only that objective, the following letter, with attachments, has been sent to SPFL lawyers, CEO and SPFL Board Members.

An honest game free from deception is what football supporters of all clubs want. It is the action the letter and attachments prompt that will tell us if there is any intention of providing it.

It is a response on behalf of readers here on TSFM, but the sentiment which underpins it is almost universally held amongst fans of all clubs.  Importantly it is a response directly to all clubs, especially those with a SPFL Board member, that will make the clubs and the football authorities aware just how seriously supporters take the restoration of trust in an honest game, honestly governed.

The annexes to the letter contain information which may be published at a later date. We thought it appropriate to first await any response from any of the recipients.

Please also draw this to the attention of friends who are not internet using supporters and love their football and their club.

Auldheid

__________________________________________________________________

Harper MacLeod
The Ca’d’oro
45 Gordon Street
Glasgow
G1 3PE
19 Feb 2014
Copy sent to SPFL CEO and Board Members *
Dear Mr McKenzie
We the contributors to The Scottish Football Monitoring web site write to you in your capacity as the legal adviser employed by Harper MacLeod to assist the Scottish Premier League (now the Scottish Professional Football League) to gather evidence and investigate the matter of incorrect player registrations involving concealed side letters and employee benefit trusts as defined in the eventual Lord Nimmo Smith Commission.
We note from the then SPL announcement that set up an enquiry that the initial date range to be covered was from the inception of the SPL in July 1998, but that was changed to 23 November 2000 because, according to our understanding, that is the date of the first side letter supplied by Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps. It is also our understanding that the SPL asked for all documentation relating to side letters as well as the letters themselves.
It is a matter of public record that Rangers Administrators failed to supply the SPL all relevant documentation. Indeed the seriousness of not complying with SPL requests was the subject of an admonition of Rangers/Duff and Phelps from Lord Nimmo Smith under Issue 4 of his Commission.
Quite how serious that failure to comply or concealment was in terms of misleading the Commission and so Lord Nimmo Smith can now be assessed from the information contained at Annexes 1 to 10 attached.
We think that as legal advisers to the SPL (now the SPFL) you have a responsibility to make them aware that their Commission was misled by the concealment of documents starting on 3 September 1999, and signed by current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie, whose silence on the ebt matters referred to in the attached annexes* is questionable at the very least.
This letter but not attachments is being posted on The Scottish Football Monitor web site as this is matter for all of Scottish football and support for the issue being pursued to establish the truth can be gauged by responses from supporters from all Scottish clubs once the letter has been published there.
A copy of this letter with Annexes has also been sent to the SPFL CEO and members of the SPFL Board.
Acknowledgement of receipt and reply can be sent by e mail to:
(Address supplied)
Yours in sport

On behalf of The Scottish Football Monitor contributors and readers. http://www.tsfm.org.uk/

Addressees copied in
Neil Doncaster CEO
The Scottish Professional Football League
Hampden Park
Glasgow G42 9DE

Eric Riley (Celtic),
The Celtic Football Club
Celtic Park
Glasgow G40 3RE

Stephen Thompson (Dundee United),
Tannadice Park,
Tannadice Street,
Dundee, DD3 7JW

Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen);
Aberdeen Football Club plc
Pittodrie Stadium
Pittodrie Street
Aberdeen AB24 5QH

Les Gray (Hamilton),
Hamilton Academical FC
New Douglas Park
Hamilton
ML3 0FT

Mike Mulraney (Alloa)
Alloa Athletic FC
Clackmannan Road
Recreation Park
Alloa FK10 1RY

Bill Darroch (Stenhousemuir).
Stenhousemuir F.C.
Ochilview Park
Gladstone Road
Stenhousemuir
Falkirk
FK5 4QL

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,234 Comments so far

John ClarkPosted on10:35 pm - Mar 8, 2014


weescotsman says:
March 8, 2014 at 10:28 pm
‘…Woolly bees?
———-
A coded reference to another good-natured poster, weescotsman, going back, I think, to RTC days. 😀

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HaywirePosted on10:55 pm - Mar 8, 2014


john clarke says:
March 8, 2014 at 9:21 pm

On the 4th March, I watched this man furiously scribbling away on his A4 pad (didn’t know the provenance of the pad at that time!), and I can assure all and sundry that he copied, more or less, every word.

In passing, although living in England, I would like to hope that we (US) could get together for some sort of social gathering/meeting/swally at some time in the future – not too far off.

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HaywirePosted on11:08 pm - Mar 8, 2014


Another thing which I was wondering about lately, especially when my daughter remarked on my enduring interest in matters TSFM, was the age profile (I’m putting this as politely as poss.) of our significant posters. I know what sort of age group I fall into, and it is pretty obvious, from the comments about their youthful activities, that quite a number of our other posters would fall into the same “just before the Civil War” era as me.

However, I would be interested in knowing the broad age group into which our posters fall. I suspect I know what that will be, but please surprise me! I am in the 65 to 70 group, and Killie got three points today!

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Matty RothPosted on11:09 pm - Mar 8, 2014


easyJambo says:
March 8, 2014 at 1:25 pm
8 0 Rate This

Matty Roth says: March 8, 2014 at 1:01 pm

How do the Rangers debt levels fit chronologically alongside the payments into EBT?
===================================
Profit/Loss £M …… EBT Contribution (£M)
2001 -£16.90… £1.01
2002 -£35.33… £5.18
2003 -£29.61… £6.79
2004 -£5.94….. £7.25
2005 £12.67… £7.24 (profit includes a one-off £15M gain on Rangers Media valuation)
2006 £0.09….. £9.19
2007 -£6.25….. £4.99
2008 £7.17….. £2.29
2009 -£12.65… £2.36
2010 £4.20…… £1.36
2011 £2.40…… £0.35

≠=======================

Thanks EJ.

So despite racking up debts year on year the company continued to pay these “discretionary” payments into trust. A trust that courts have so far decided had the power to collect repayment. But of course never did.

I’m sure the all the shafted creditors are relieved to have the courts confirm it was all above board..

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on12:13 am - Mar 9, 2014


john clarke says:
March 8, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Flocculent Apoidea says:
March 8, 2014 at 9:45 am
“… I suspect he may be doing a “Craigy” whilst scribbling for effect…”
———–
Cross my heart and hope to die, scouts’ honour, no electrical or mechanical gizmos or gadgets, morse code, carrier pigeons or woolly bees have been employed in my reporting from the UTTT! Only my pen and Poundland £1 A4 wide-ruled refill pad! And a strong desire not to fall asleep from boredom, by keeping busy!

Didn’t doubt it for a moment, John. I seem to have acquired several TDs I hadn’t bargained on but glad you were on the same benign wavelength. Sir, I salute your indefatigability (and eye for a stationery bargain).

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BroadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on12:26 am - Mar 9, 2014


Haywire says:
March 8, 2014 at 11:08 pm

When I was born and slapped by the nurse, instead of crying, I asked the nurse who the current European champions were, her reply dictated my soccerball allegiance.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on12:44 am - Mar 9, 2014


Haywire says:
March 8, 2014 at 11:08 pm

5

0

Rate This

Another thing which I was wondering about lately, especially when my daughter remarked on my enduring interest in matters TSFM, was the age profile (I’m putting this as politely as poss.) of our significant posters. I know what sort of age group I fall into, and it is pretty obvious, from the comments about their youthful activities, that quite a number of our other posters would fall into the same “just before the Civil War” era as me.

However, I would be interested in knowing the broad age group into which our posters fall. I suspect I know what that will be, but please surprise me! I am in the 65 to 70 group, and Killie got three points today!

_____________________________________________

Demographics are an important validator or confounder of any sample.
Example sensible groupings would be :
A less than 18
B 18 to 24
C 25 to 34
D 35 to 44
E 45 to 59
F 60 to 75
G over 75

I am D.

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ThomTheThimPosted on12:54 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an F.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on1:04 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m a D but verging on double D these days.

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BrendaPosted on1:16 am - Mar 9, 2014


An ‘E’ for me 😉

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:17 am - Mar 9, 2014


john clarke says:
March 8, 2014 at 8:34 pm

8

0

Rate This
(UTT thread)

_______________________________________________

Great work JC. Geeks like me are eternally in your debt.

2 thoughts strike me in reviewing this:

1. What a shame the FTT had to be held behind closed doors. The type of commentary and analysis that such as yourself is bringing to the UTT would have been amazing if ‘twer possible within the FTT.

2. A grudging respect for the intellectual rigour of Thornhill that I don’t think I ever would have countenanced without such insights as are being brought here. I begin to understand how the FTT decision came about.
Thornhill brings to mind the following passage from Douglas Adams:

FOOK: “And are you not a more fiendish disputant than The Great Hyperlobic Omnicognate Neutron-Wrangler? Which can destroy -…”

DEEP THOUGHT:
” The Great Hyperlobic Omnicognate Neutron-Wrangler can talk all four legs off an Arcturan Mega-Donkey but only ‘I’ can persuade it to go for a walk afterwards. Molest me not, with this, pocket calculator stuff!”

Hope and expect ATQC loses this one, and if so this will not be through any deficiency on his part I suspect. Similarly, if he prevails, it will represent a divergence between the legal and the moral. He will have earned his fee in either event.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on1:38 am - Mar 9, 2014


Am I right in thinking that if UTT goes the right way, this individual could be reaching for his cheque book in favour of HMRC?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/millionaire-bank-boss-stephen-hester-674742

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easyJamboPosted on2:01 am - Mar 9, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says: March 9, 2014 at 1:17 am

2. A grudging respect for the intellectual rigour of Thornhill that I don’t think I ever would have countenanced without such insights as are being brought here. I begin to understand how the FTT decision came about.
====================================
He certainly has that rigour you mention but he is also capable of putting forward some odd arguments to defend the undefensible.

In Friday’s evidence to the UTTT he raised a few eyebrows regarding HMRC’s views on grossing up net amounts when calculating the tax liability.

He suggested that the players thought that when their contracts or side letters stated “Net”, it meant “free from any tax liability”, rather than the amount remaining after tax had been deducted. This was in answer to HMRC’s position on grossing up tax liability e.g. if a player was receiving a net value of say £100K, they calculated the tax on the basis that the gross value was £167K (£67K would be the 40% tax liability due, rather than £40k of £100K).

He made similar peculiar arguments about double taxation when discussing when a tax liability arose. i.e. saying that if you accept HMRC’s position tax would be payable when money was transferred to the trust and again when taken out the trust. HMRC’s response was that it is covered in the tax code that any liability would be paid at the first stage, and there would be no liability at any subsequent stage. The only exception being if the liability at the subsequent stage was higher that the first stage, in which case only the difference would be payable at the subsequent stage.

Thornhill was very good at what I saw as tangential arguments, by taking you away from the main issue to a related but relatively minor point which he could defend vigorously, but then used it as a reason for dismissing the main issue.

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thegreencitizenPosted on5:30 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m in the E camp 😕

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mirrenmanPosted on7:14 am - Mar 9, 2014


E for me as well 😯

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Bill1903Posted on7:17 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m also an E 😳

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Tic 6709Posted on7:41 am - Mar 9, 2014


Grumpy F

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Matty RothPosted on7:56 am - Mar 9, 2014


D

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FeduplongtimeagosoawizPosted on8:00 am - Mar 9, 2014


E for this lurker.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:05 am - Mar 9, 2014


I am slightly more towards the lower end of ‘E’ than the higher 🙂

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Famous songPosted on8:17 am - Mar 9, 2014


E and a lifelong Alloa fan.

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scottcPosted on8:26 am - Mar 9, 2014


Group E for me

(This would be easier to collate if TSFM created it as a poll)

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DonegaltimPosted on8:30 am - Mar 9, 2014


Throughout this whole situation, would an individual with any sense of prevailing decency not stand aside. I’m obviously talking about Mr Ogilvie. Would it not be the case of ‘I’m innocent and know I’m innocent so I will stand aside and let an investigation proceed and as I’m innocent, this will reflect well on my character which has taken a beating’.

Why has nobody in authority spoke out with regards to this situation? Mr Ogilvie uttered a plea of ignorance and the football public said ‘aye that’ll be chocolate’. Still nothing!!!

I find it quite incredible that this has been allowed to continue without any figure from the SFA coming out with an explanation. It has only reinforced the contempt that we hold the Scottish Football Authorities in

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FairBairnPosted on8:31 am - Mar 9, 2014


F and Son of the Rock

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on8:37 am - Mar 9, 2014


E for me.

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DV8Posted on8:58 am - Mar 9, 2014


E for me. E’s are good! Allegedly.

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SmugasPosted on9:12 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m in pot D. Does that mean I’m seeded?

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ChristyboyPosted on9:22 am - Mar 9, 2014


E

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TAMJARTMARQUEZPosted on9:25 am - Mar 9, 2014


E too.

Well done St Mirren last year, best wishes to both finalsists this year, know you will have a great day.

Aberdeen/ ict ticket sales- awesome effort lads. Is there a possibility of all clubs fans being represented at Celtic Park, and make it a day out like grand final at rugby league? The absence of the Glasgow giants/ OF/ gruesome twosome* will help i’m sure!
*delete as appropriate

League Cup final gives a possibility for all clubs to present a united front for Scottish fitba fans, fill Celtic Park and demonstrate what fans want is fair competition with properly run clubs and honest governance of our game.

Suggest a podcast with Turnbull Hutton on future of Scottish fitba, which I believe is starting to head in the right direction, home grown players, greater chance of success for all clubs, national team benefitting.

1st time poster, long time lurker, keep up the good work!

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on9:58 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m also in the D pot.
The D’s and older are all old enough to remember a fairer, less corrupt game.
Coincidentally a time when Scotland were never in the 4th pot for qualifying draws for major tournaments!

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JLeeHookerPosted on9:59 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an E (but I tell everyone that I am a D) 😳

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FIFAPosted on10:00 am - Mar 9, 2014


Regards Mr Ogilvie,it must be strange for all that come up against this man,that is if he has been allowed to deal with people outside of the SFA ,he doesnt seem to do much apart from the cup draws ,strange that,no if he has any dealings outside of this I know that I for one could not take the guy at any value as once a cheat ,always a cheat,no apologies but thats the way I see it

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seanebhoyPosted on10:23 am - Mar 9, 2014


D for me (till mid year!)

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tomtomPosted on10:33 am - Mar 9, 2014


D

+VAT

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Alan PricePosted on10:39 am - Mar 9, 2014


Angus1983 says:
March 8, 2014 at 7:15 pm

Meantime, the Scottish Cup (yes folks, it’s still going ;)). I’m in two minds whether I’d rather have Sevco in the semi to prevent them crowing about getting to the Final, or play them in the Final and do them 6 or 7-0.
________________________________________

Sevco aren’t in the semi-finals yet Angus!… 😀

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davythelotionPosted on10:39 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an E with the body of a G and the mind of an A.

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jean7brodiePosted on10:56 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m a very sprightly F 😉

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Billy BoycePosted on10:58 am - Mar 9, 2014


F (with G in my sights) for this old buffer

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TorquemadaPosted on11:06 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m a grumpy old F-er, according to the luckiest woman in Ireland!

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N ParkerPosted on11:07 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an F also with G in sight, wishing i was a C again.. 😛

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CastofthousandsPosted on11:08 am - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an E with Davythelotion pretenses. I think we should book a Bowling Club or the suchlike for Haywire’s suggested get together.

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jean7brodiePosted on11:13 am - Mar 9, 2014


Castofthousands says:
March 9, 2014 at 11:08 am

I think we should book a Bowling Club or the suchlike …
————————————————-

With space for Zimmers and special toilets!!!!

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MercDocPosted on11:30 am - Mar 9, 2014


D is only place to be!

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ecobhoyPosted on11:32 am - Mar 9, 2014


Cluster One says:
March 8, 2014 at 5:38 pm

@ ecobhoy says:
vanguardbears have got the geotechnical report for westhorn……and would you believe,no contamination issues,fit for build…..
Have you seen this rubbish,or is it just something they have taken from the FTH site?
====================================================================
My understanding is that VB gave the material to FTH but it isn’t the actual geotechnical report prepared by GCC. That report will not be released because of a Court of Session Decision involving The Scottish Information Commissioner v Glasgow City Council and Dundee City Council

The case had nothing to do with Celtic or Westthorn and involves Scotland’s biggest private search company requesting Property Certificates from both councils under Freedom of Information legislation free of charge which it would then sell to the public at a price lower than that charged by the Councils because the private company had no costs in assembling and continually updating the info which was borne solely by the Councils.

Cutting a long story short – the councils argued that the legislation allowed the information in the report to be released under FoI but not the actual physical report. The Scottish Freedom of Information Commissioner appealed the issue to the Court of Session which rejected the appeal and found in favour of the Councils with the Information Commissioner deciding against a further appeal.

So ‘reports’ are exempt and there is no legal requirement to issued them under FoI requests. I believe the Council thinking is that if you start issuing some then you could weaken your legal position in protecting those that form part of a lucrative revenue stream.

As I said earlier this legal decision has nothing to do with Celtic or Westthorn but it is the reason why the geotechnical report hasn’t been and won’t be released and it has nothing to do with any conspiracy. The report I am led to believe has been presented by GCC as part of its evidence to the EC SDtate Aid case.

Throughout this attack on Celtic the so-called Bear Land ‘Experts’ have been very selective in the information they have released and even then that has often been twisted to suit their case which is more easily achieved when they don’t disclose the full context.

Perhaps their biggest lie is the fact that the reduction in sale value at Westthorn is due to ‘contamination’. No one has ever suggested that except the land ‘experts’ who then ‘prove’ there was no significant contamination on the site and thus that this ‘reveals’ the alleged public corruption that they claim took place between Celtic and GCC.

In evidence they reveal an FoI response from SEPA stating that GCC hasn’t notified SEPA of any contaminated land at Westthorn and that SEPA is not aware of any contaminated land within 250 metres of the site. This is immediately ‘trumpeted’ as proof of a contamination cover-up by the land ‘experts’. The simple answer is often the correct one and it’s that no ‘notifiable’ pollution exists on Westthorn and that’s why no report has been made to SEPA. In any case iof there was any reason to believe that serious or significant pollution existed then SEPA would act.

As I stated earlier I have never seen any evidence of significant contamination being revealed at Westthorn although some minor problems are revealed at : http://data.glasgow.gov.uk/storage/f/2013-08-22T11%3A08%3A56.953Z/clyde-gateway-green-network-strategy-2007.pdf

(Page 21 identifies the mine shafts in the Westthorn Estate area and Page 36 the contamination issues)

At the end of the day the land ‘experts’ have done everything they can to deny that the main problem with the land bought by Celtic is ‘abnormal ground conditions’ and the major factor is the coal mining which in the 1800s saw 4 very productive collieries on Westthorn Estate with at least 60 colliers employed in them (Glasgow Herald 4.02.1822). I have also provided acres of publicly accessible evidence confirming coal mining at Westthorn from approx 1750-1850. Although one of the 7 major seams under the estate was still being woirked in the 1930s.

The land ‘experts’ have lied and twisted facts in attempting to ‘prove’ that there were no collieries on Westthorn Estate and eventually had to drop that in view of the evidence I assembled to the contrary. They then claimed that there was no pit shafts within 20 metres of the Celtic portion of the former Westthorn Estate.

However that contradicted the info from my own Coal Authority Mining Report and when the ‘experts’ later published their Coal Authority Report I noticed they hadn’t included the full area of ground bought by Celtic in their search request which then excluded 2 pit shafts right on the boundary – I doubt if that was accidental as they had previously published a map showing the full extent of Celtic’s land. But the physical siting of pit shafts is of little consequence when looking at the entirety of ‘abnormal ground conditions’ caused by mining activities.

It has seemingly escaped the ‘experts’ that a mine consists of more than a pit shaft with the vast bulk of the underground workings being miles of tunnels, at different levels, dug by miners extracting coal from the major seams. Westthorn also has the blast zone factor from the adjoining whisky storage and maturation warehouses and possibly some other more minor ground problems relating to in-fill and made-up ground in connection with the old waterworks and reservoirs.

I see that Fth has now ventured into complex 3D geological computer modelling programmes to bolster their ‘case’ whatever that might be 😆 And VB have started to analyse the findings from Boreholes – good luck to them as I am not impressed so far by their conclusions.

The EC will shortly toss-out the farcical State Aid claims. I have been ignoring the land ‘expert’ claims recently because their material is closer to Alice in Wonderland than reality. I think most Bears have also abandoned the subject and are wakening-up to the financial problems facing Rangers.

Of course perhaps the VB are looking for something which could assist the formation of a new political party fighting seats in Glasgow to argue the Loyalist cause. I doubt they’ll save their deposits but if that’s what floats their boat then fair enough. I’ll stick to football 😆

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AuldheidPosted on11:47 am - Mar 9, 2014


DonegalTim

It is over 2 weeks since the letter and Annexes were delivered and not a cheep from anyone.

One Scottish journo has nibbled but the question was where did the documents come from? The answer is EVERYWHERE! Yet our football authorities act as if they did not exist, aided and abetted by the media taking the same stance.

In ignoring what the documentation reveals they are doing more than that, they are ignoring the people who support the game.

Those documents reveal a very uncomfortable truth and folk who do not act from truth act from a lie.

As long as questions go unanswered we are being lied to, with every passing day with nothing said to explain why the football authorities are innocent, the longer the lie lives and the longer our worth is insulted.

It is not as if an argument exists that it is in the public interest to stay silent, its football not Trident secrets.

Its not as if a judge has not said that material from the same source cannot be used. If its everywhere its existence cannot be ignored.

Ignoring the evidence of wrongdoing because of its doubtful provenance but not its veracity is the only SFA line of defense. It is SFA policy to do so yet what is the greater crime?

Accessing information by dubious means that tells an uncomfortablev truth or ignoring the greater crime against Scottish football that the documentation evidences?

There is now a ethical battle taking place. In fact it is the continuation of the original ethical battle that began in 1999 when ethics were dropped from the game.

Ethics are now battering at the doors of Hampden, they want their place in the game back.

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Caveat EmptorPosted on11:54 am - Mar 9, 2014


In the E demographic.
JC, many thanks for keeping us informed. Not a word from the MSM, no surprises there. In my opinion, the UTT may have ramifications that will resonate throughout not only our game, but also the wider corporate landscape. I wonder who, apart from us bams, is keeping up. Certainly not your average guy, who is in the dark. Utter disgrace from the MSM.
In the pub on Friday I attempted to engage a pal, a Rangers man, on his thoughts on the events unfolding at the tribunal. He was of the opinion that the EBT situation was done and dusted, no fault, and that I was some kinda bam with an agenda.
I then had to explain why, when my team are not involved, I would be at the LC final.
Angus, I’ll let you know how that goes.

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Para HandyPosted on11:56 am - Mar 9, 2014


Auldheid,

Forgive me if you have already given a list of who the documents were sent to but would it be worth winging copies to Turnbull Hutton?

Given his recent interview, he sounds like the type who would either give a response or even take up the cause?

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FIFAPosted on12:00 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Some interesting comments with the vangaurd and the msm and friends continuing their denial of all things that are true,must make for an interesting evening to be in their company listening to one anothers chat while actualy smelling ch?te and staring at one another thinking his ch?te is smelling stronger than mine,still if they are happy in their little mires adding to their piles then who are we ,nose peg anyone.

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ecobhoyPosted on12:03 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Auldheid says:
March 9, 2014 at 11:47 am

It is over 2 weeks since the letter and Annexes were delivered and not a cheep from anyone.

One Scottish journo has nibbled but the question was where did the documents come from? The answer is EVERYWHERE! Yet our football authorities act as if they did not exist, aided and abetted by the media taking the same stance.
=======================================================
The SMSM aren’t even prepared to look into the UTT in case something comes-up that they would have to report.

No they’re sitting praying that the UTT confirms the FTTT Decision so they can write the same story again to support the succulent lamb providers that makes life so easy for them by dishing-up offal passed fit for human consumption by our ‘betters’.

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upthehoopsPosted on12:18 pm - Mar 9, 2014


On the land deal ‘experts’. I was appalled last week when Radio Clyde allowed a caller to allege Celtic have ‘been involved in the worst ever criminal act in football’. It is utterly shameful that they allowed such a call and did not cut the caller off.

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The_Pie_ManPosted on12:35 pm - Mar 9, 2014


in the E camp 🙁

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erniePosted on12:38 pm - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an F, got my bus pass last year so would be able to make it through to any proposed TSFM swallyfest…. just a wild guess at where it might be of course!!
(only joking, honest.)
Can I add my thanks to JC, been on the road the last while (Poland and stuff) and really enjoyed his reports.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on1:15 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Just a few wee comments regarding my understanding of the “legitimacy” of the loans from the players’ sub-trusts.

As I understand its position, HMRC has never argued that the ebt loans are not legally valid. Nor does it argue that these loans will never be repaid. Personally, I believe this is the correct analysis: the loans do appear to be legally real and there is an expectation that at least some of the debt will be repaid.

There are several key elements here:
1. The sub-trusts are generally held for the benefit of the player’s family – where a cash sum is payable to his family on his death.
2. The ebt loans (owed to the sub-trust) will be a claimable from a player’s estate on his death.
3. The player is the “protector” of his family’s sub-trust fund as well as the beneficiary of loans from that sub-trust. He can therefore change the trustee and the beneficiaries as he pleases

If we leave aside for one moment, how the money arrived in the sub-trust and who it is intended to benefit, it seems a reasonable proposition that a trustee should allow borrowing on commercial terms from the pot of money he/she is holding. On the face of it, the trustee should only be concerned with having the money due to the beneficiaries at the time it becomes payable.

MG argue that loans made to players by the trustees are legal transactions and that repayment is expected and enforceable.

HMRC argue that, using the Ramsay principle, the loans should be considered as one step in a series of transactions that have the overall effect of providing remuneration that is intended (but, they contend, ultimately fails) to avoid tax and NI.

I would tend to agree with HMRC, on the basis that any plan which envisages the repayment of a debt on a deceased estate, from the same deceased estate is a self cancelling transaction. As “protector” of the sub trust, the assets are effectively part of his estate to be disbursed in line with his wishes. To me, this is exactly the type of artificial transaction that Ramsay sought to strike down.

The phrase “put unreservedly at the disposal of the employee” is the key to the case. If the money loaned to a player is only repaid via a self-cancelling transaction, it may well be repaid in a legal sense; but it cannot be considered repaid in any practical sense – when looked at from the perspective of the transactions as a whole.

If Lord Doherty agrees that the sub-trust loans should be viewed in isolation, he will undoubtedly agree with the FTT(T) and find in favour of MG.

If he agrees with Dr Poon’s additional findings of fact (and I don’t understand why he would be prevented from doing so) he should reach the same conclusion and find in favour of HMRC.

Oh… and I’m an E

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Palacio67Posted on1:20 pm - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an E (Very low down on the scale mind you!)…. 😛

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whispererPosted on1:56 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Sssh … “E” …. 😀

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Joe49Posted on2:06 pm - Mar 9, 2014


F but not yet an old age pensioner.
Can someone answer this? During the FTTT the MG lawer admitted that the side letters were in fact ‘contractual’. There were , iirc , 5 cases admitted.

Questions: Who were the five players? What about the other 30 plus players who had side letters?

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JimmyBeeJayPosted on2:21 pm - Mar 9, 2014


“E” and proud!!! Though some would say I am an “A” in mind only.

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AuldheidPosted on2:27 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Para Handy

Mr Hutton is watching the campaign to bring about change at the SFA with interest. He is well informed.

I understand the state of his health prevents his full energies being brought to bear but that will not stop him talking to others who share his views on the harm the SFA are causing.

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helpmaboabPosted on2:37 pm - Mar 9, 2014


F ! This is a bit like having to tick your age when doing online transactions and your D.O.B is miles doon the list.

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DonegaltimPosted on2:45 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Cheers Auldheid. I personally find it absolutely diabolical that this wasn’t/isn’t shouted from the highest rooftops.

What kind of lickspittles have our journalists? become. Does Jack Irvine control all aspects of the media. Alex Thomson raised it and yet the Scottish MSM never went near it. I think Alex Thomson realised he was peeing over an extremely high wall going near the murky wold of Scottish football with its funny handshakes, brogues and blazers

It just utterly appals me as gardening leave would be initiated in many other form of industry or profession

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DonegaltimPosted on2:48 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Cheers Auldheid. I personally find it absolutely diabolical that this wasn’t/isn’t shouted from the highest rooftops.

What kind of lickspittles have our journalists? become. Does Jack Irvine control all aspects of the media. Alex Thomson raised it and yet the Scottish MSM never went near it. I think Alex Thomson realised he was peeing over an extremely high wall going near the murky wold of Scottish football with its funny handshakes, brogues and blazers

It just utterly appals me as gardening leave would be initiated in any other form of industry or profession. It protects both parties and doesn’t insinuate any decision until an investigation is complete

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upthehoopsPosted on3:24 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Donegaltim says:
March 9, 2014 at 2:45 pm

It just utterly appals me as gardening leave would be initiated in many other form of industry or profession
===========================
In many other industries or professions the media would have kicked up a stink to a level that would force resignations. Regan, Doncaster and Ogilvie would be long gone.

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GiovanniPosted on3:40 pm - Mar 9, 2014


I’m F, but behaves like an A and feels like an H. Robert Campbell Ogilvie is apparently an F, so when does he retire? The whip-round for his retiral present should be interesting or will it just be another EBT style golden farewell?

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TartanwulverPosted on3:48 pm - Mar 9, 2014


I’m an E

If you need proof, I can send a photo of my Scotland Argentina 1978 mug (we were all mugs mind you)

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on3:50 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Just back from the Tulloch and want to say a (slightly grudging) well done to those DUFC fans that made the journey up the A9 today to watch your boys give our team an absolute spanking.

Was very impressed at the away support turnout today for a 12.30 kick off on a televised game on Sunday! (… I won’t be watching it again on the i player btw. Once was plenty!)… which was greatly in excess of what I was expecting.

Obviously much less impressed with the on field offerings from the jags.

I’m sure the unintentional generosity of our back line made the journey worthwhile for you all in the end. (I think your fans saw more of the ball than our midfield managed today! )

Hope you get an Arabs v Dons final now, and sell out Parkhead. Stick it right to those armageddon mongers!

Well Done and safe home!

Scottish football needs a strong…. drink! (… so I’m off to drown my sorrows)

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scottcPosted on4:03 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Tartanwulver says:
March 9, 2014 at 3:48 pm
2 0 Rate This

I’m an E

If you need proof, I can send a photo of my Scotland Argentina 1978 mug (we were all mugs mind you)

Is it the one with all the signatures?

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TSFMPosted on4:18 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Demographic poll on the Poll page. Go to the menu and click About/Poll
🙂

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Palacio67Posted on4:33 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
March 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm
—————————————–
It may turn out to be a blessing in Disguise if you are successful next week.
Its a funny ‘Ole’ game as they say.

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StevieBCPosted on4:34 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Not entirely OT…

Can’t easily place an online half-time bet here on the footie.

But what are the odds of a TRFC penalty and a Rovers sending off in the second half? 🙄

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ZilchPosted on4:37 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Haywire says:
March 8, 2014 at 10:55 pm
On the 4th March, I watched this man furiously scribbling away on his A4 pad (didn’t know the provenance of the pad at that time!), and I can assure all and sundry that he copied, more or less, every word.

In passing, although living in England, I would like to hope that we (US) could get together for some sort of social gathering/meeting/swally at some time in the future – not too far off.
——————————————————————————————————————————————————

I would also like to add my thanks to JC for his redoubtable reporting of the UTT – reads like a thriller! Hugely indebted to you sir.

TSFM: Reporting the news the SMSM won’t report…. (thanks to JC)

I was also hugely taken with the thought of TSFM-ers meeting up at the UTT and wondered if there would come a time when we might end up having the “social gathering/meeting/swally” Haywire mentions.

Not sure how it fits with the anonymity of the blogosphere – and bound to attract unwelcome attention if advertised.

But worse than that – can you imagine the stramash trying to agree a location??? Would make Cup Final venues seem like a picnic…. 😈

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easyJamboPosted on5:30 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Almost poetic justice from Albion Rovers keeper, Neil Parry, a tax inspector at East Kilbride. 👿

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on5:42 pm - Mar 9, 2014


easyJambo says:
March 9, 2014 at 5:30 pm

16

1

Rate This

Almost poetic justice from Albion Rovers keeper, Neil Parry, a tax inspector at East Kilbride. 👿

__________________________________

The fact that he was fouled as TRFC scored, but the goal was allowed to stand is somewhat poignant, I think.

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TSFMPosted on5:44 pm - Mar 9, 2014


What happened there Campbell? 🙂

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Angus1983Posted on5:51 pm - Mar 9, 2014


Well done to the diddy “Club” for holding a better team to a draw in the Cup, even if it needed the tiniest bit of World Record blatant cheatery for the equaliser. Even Mr R Gough was shocked.

Albion manager speaking to Mr C Young just now, adamant that they’ll win the replay. 🙂

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TartanwulverPosted on5:56 pm - Mar 9, 2014


scottc says:
March 9, 2014 at 4:03 pm

I can send a photo of my Scotland Argentina 1978 mug (we were all mugs mind you)

Is it the one with all the signatures?
————————————-
No, so it’s probably worth a bit more! It just has the venues

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