Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

ByTrisidium

Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

A Guest Blog by Auldheid for TSFM

Honesty requires both transparency and accountability. In pursuit of honest, transparent and accountable governance of Scottish football, and only that objective, the following letter, with attachments, has been sent to SPFL lawyers, CEO and SPFL Board Members.

An honest game free from deception is what football supporters of all clubs want. It is the action the letter and attachments prompt that will tell us if there is any intention of providing it.

It is a response on behalf of readers here on TSFM, but the sentiment which underpins it is almost universally held amongst fans of all clubs.  Importantly it is a response directly to all clubs, especially those with a SPFL Board member, that will make the clubs and the football authorities aware just how seriously supporters take the restoration of trust in an honest game, honestly governed.

The annexes to the letter contain information which may be published at a later date. We thought it appropriate to first await any response from any of the recipients.

Please also draw this to the attention of friends who are not internet using supporters and love their football and their club.

Auldheid

__________________________________________________________________

Harper MacLeod
The Ca’d’oro
45 Gordon Street
Glasgow
G1 3PE
19 Feb 2014
Copy sent to SPFL CEO and Board Members *
Dear Mr McKenzie
We the contributors to The Scottish Football Monitoring web site write to you in your capacity as the legal adviser employed by Harper MacLeod to assist the Scottish Premier League (now the Scottish Professional Football League) to gather evidence and investigate the matter of incorrect player registrations involving concealed side letters and employee benefit trusts as defined in the eventual Lord Nimmo Smith Commission.
We note from the then SPL announcement that set up an enquiry that the initial date range to be covered was from the inception of the SPL in July 1998, but that was changed to 23 November 2000 because, according to our understanding, that is the date of the first side letter supplied by Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps. It is also our understanding that the SPL asked for all documentation relating to side letters as well as the letters themselves.
It is a matter of public record that Rangers Administrators failed to supply the SPL all relevant documentation. Indeed the seriousness of not complying with SPL requests was the subject of an admonition of Rangers/Duff and Phelps from Lord Nimmo Smith under Issue 4 of his Commission.
Quite how serious that failure to comply or concealment was in terms of misleading the Commission and so Lord Nimmo Smith can now be assessed from the information contained at Annexes 1 to 10 attached.
We think that as legal advisers to the SPL (now the SPFL) you have a responsibility to make them aware that their Commission was misled by the concealment of documents starting on 3 September 1999, and signed by current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie, whose silence on the ebt matters referred to in the attached annexes* is questionable at the very least.
This letter but not attachments is being posted on The Scottish Football Monitor web site as this is matter for all of Scottish football and support for the issue being pursued to establish the truth can be gauged by responses from supporters from all Scottish clubs once the letter has been published there.
A copy of this letter with Annexes has also been sent to the SPFL CEO and members of the SPFL Board.
Acknowledgement of receipt and reply can be sent by e mail to:
(Address supplied)
Yours in sport

On behalf of The Scottish Football Monitor contributors and readers. http://www.tsfm.org.uk/

Addressees copied in
Neil Doncaster CEO
The Scottish Professional Football League
Hampden Park
Glasgow G42 9DE

Eric Riley (Celtic),
The Celtic Football Club
Celtic Park
Glasgow G40 3RE

Stephen Thompson (Dundee United),
Tannadice Park,
Tannadice Street,
Dundee, DD3 7JW

Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen);
Aberdeen Football Club plc
Pittodrie Stadium
Pittodrie Street
Aberdeen AB24 5QH

Les Gray (Hamilton),
Hamilton Academical FC
New Douglas Park
Hamilton
ML3 0FT

Mike Mulraney (Alloa)
Alloa Athletic FC
Clackmannan Road
Recreation Park
Alloa FK10 1RY

Bill Darroch (Stenhousemuir).
Stenhousemuir F.C.
Ochilview Park
Gladstone Road
Stenhousemuir
Falkirk
FK5 4QL

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,234 Comments so far

canuckbhoyPosted on4:02 pm - Feb 28, 2014


easyJambo says:

Friday, February 28, 2014 at 12:51

16 0 Rate This

Phil’s latest thoughts re the possibility of Administration and Dave King

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dave-king-makes-his-move/#more-4414
And absolute belter that shows Phil at his very best.

I’ll admit: I can be annoyed by his “I know something” teases and when he, to my view, muddies the waters of his reporting with commentary but that is rock solid journalism to my eyes.

A month and a half ago I thought an actual insolvency event unlikely. Now, with virtually no signs of cost-cutting or restructuring, and a pay-day loan, it’s looking more and more like a certainty. Incredibly cynical and remarkable.

Between the above and Auldheid’s excellent work it should be an interesting week come Monday.

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sanoffymessssoitizzhizzemdyfonedrapolisPosted on4:29 pm - Feb 28, 2014


easyJambo says: Friday, February 28, 2014 at 16:01

Thank you. Much appreciated.

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100bjdPosted on4:48 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Nothing on Rangers accounts at Companies House……………surprising!

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smugasPosted on5:12 pm - Feb 28, 2014


The second an oasis promotion was permitted by the rest of the clubs I thought admin was a certainty if that (a likely sale of TRFC) was the direction the spivs wanted to go. Big question is the assets. That’s the bit King can’t control and most certainly wasn’t in the plan.

Oasis? Don’t look back in anger!

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redlichtiePosted on5:15 pm - Feb 28, 2014


100bjd says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 16:48
Nothing on Rangers accounts at Companies House……………surprising!
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

A stunt I’ve seen pulled is the very late submission of accounts to Companies House followed by the simultaneous issue of a very skewed company press release painting the very best picture possible.

The interregnum (apposite, no?) between the filing and Companies House actually posting them online leaves hacks with only the words of wisdom from the company itself to write about.

By the time the actual accounts are available they are no longer news and things have moved on. What could have been a very negative news story is avoided.

In TRFC case blogs like this will not let things go but an attempted PR perception may well have been built up before the truth is fully out there.

Of course this may all be overtaken by an insolvency event caused by threats to the main future revenue stream….

Scottish Football needs a Strong Arbroath.

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sanoffymessssoitizzhizzemdyfonedrapolisPosted on5:19 pm - Feb 28, 2014


http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/28/manchester-city-inquiry-financial-fair-play

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brycecurdyPosted on5:38 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Carl31 11:38am, beatpacificisscotia 12:40, Auldheid 14:48 (belter of a letter btw)

I read the LNS decision in full at least twice, but it was some time ago and my recollection may not be perfect.

From memory, however, while LNS et al did recognise the FTTT verdict, the ‘no sporting advantage gained’ claim was based (thanks to Sandy) on the players remaining eligible despite being improperly registered rather than the legality of Rangers’ use of EBTs.

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allyjamboPosted on5:57 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Would a ‘guilty’ verdict in the UTTT not create a separate charge, of, at the very least, bringing the game into disrepute? Although LNS decided to treat the EBTs as legal, I don’t think his remit included ‘trying’ RFC on the use of EBTs on the grounds that, if they were legal, then all clubs had access to them. I may be totally wrong, but surely if a club is found to have broken the (tax) laws of the land, to such a high degree, over many years, that that would be even more serious than mis-registering players.

To be honest, though, I doubt the SFA/SPL will even consider pursuing it.

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manandboyPosted on5:58 pm - Feb 28, 2014


brycecurdy says: Friday, February 28, 2014 at 17:38

From memory, however, while LNS et al did recognise the FTTT verdict, the ‘no sporting advantage gained’ claim was based (thanks to Sandy) on the players remaining eligible despite being improperly registered rather than the legality of Rangers’ use of EBTs.
__________________________________________________________________________

bc, my own memory says that the ‘no sporting advantage’ was due to the ebt’s being found (wrongly) to be loans, though I don’t remember the sanction avoided.

Bryson’s input prevented the titles being stripped.

Someone?

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smugasPosted on6:36 pm - Feb 28, 2014


“I don’t think his remit includes trying RFC”

Fixed that for you AJ

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MartinPosted on6:37 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Manandboy,

Not sure if this will help or hinder but my thoughts at the time were that LNS responded to to the very specific question put to his commission on player registration. The implications may have been touched upon but did not form part of the remit or the conclusion.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/03/02/guest-post-by-martin-a-concise-summary-of-the-nimmo-smith-verdict/#more-3228

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AuldheidAuldheidPosted on6:56 pm - Feb 28, 2014


manandboy says:

Friday, February 28, 2014 at 17:58

brycecurdy says: Friday, February 28, 2014 at 17:38

From memory, however, while LNS et al did recognise the FTTT verdict, the ‘no sporting advantage gained’ claim was based (thanks to Sandy) on the players remaining eligible despite being improperly registered rather than the legality of Rangers’ use of EBTs.
__________________________________________________________________________

bc, my own memory says that the ‘no sporting advantage’ was due to the ebt’s being found (wrongly) to be loans, though I don’t remember the sanction avoided.

Bryson’s input prevented the titles being stripped.

Someone?

==================
LNS treated the DOS EBTs and the loan ebts as “continuous” and ” not irregular”.

or as we say regular or lawful.

The DOS ebts were irregular and produced the wee tax case for which Rangers accepted liability in March 2011 unlike the tbc ebts that they are contesting at UTT.

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parttimearabPosted on7:04 pm - Feb 28, 2014


I see that Mr McCoist is honing his fence sitting skills…

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-manager-ally-mccoist-refuses-3193342?

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CastofthousandsPosted on7:16 pm - Feb 28, 2014


manandboy says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 17:58

“Someone?”
—————-
Brycecurdy’s recollection rings a bell with me. Can’t remember exactly how LNS side stepped the EBT’s but the misregistration due to the existence of side letters became the focus of the tribunals attention.

As we all came to realise, the infringement of the registration rules was not an issue since no-one knew they had been infringed and the players were free to ply their trade with the full ignorance of the authorities. I remember ecobhoy beating (sorry, educating) me with the £200,000 fine sanction that was deemed appropriate to cover the 50 or so cases of rule infringement over an extended period.

Lets see you find a flaw in that logic. 🙂

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nawlitePosted on7:28 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Poor Ally, has no one offered him a wedge yet?

Next time he DOES want to talk finances (when it is decided that he should try to sell STs?) I wonder if the MSM will refuse and remind him that he is just a football manager.

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StevieBCPosted on7:39 pm - Feb 28, 2014


parttimearab says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 19:04

I see that Mr McCoist is honing his fence sitting skills…
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-manager-ally-mccoist-refuses-3193342?
===============================

“…Asked if he could understand why the fans would look to the manager for guidance after another week of turmoil, McCoist responded: “Absolutely. And you can understand that while I’m sitting here, all I will be talking about is football…”

As in the last 2 seasons wrt ST sales, McCoist has placed self-interest well ahead of the club and its fans.
He’s happy to give TRFC fans ‘guidance’ on when to buy ST’s – but only when it suits McCoist.

At least he’s consistent – consistently sleekit… 😉

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PaulPosted on8:44 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Will they have the courage to mount a demonstration tommorow in Fife .And will sally comment after it if it happens.He will be asked at some point by fans as to whos side he is on. The fans want king and Ally wants his wages,interesting to say the least he cannot walk away……mmmmm.

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paulsatimPosted on9:26 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Thanks again JC, great work!

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wjohnston1Posted on9:49 pm - Feb 28, 2014


JC.
I don’t know how you manage to sit through a full days deliberations without the paperwork which the parties have.
In a previous life I fairly frequently had to attend hearings at The Lands Tribunal and The Court of Session. At least as a party involved I had all the paperwork.
Even then it was difficult concentrating while Counsel argued their cases.
Very well done yet again.

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bogsdolloxPosted on10:00 pm - Feb 28, 2014


100bjd says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 16:481

Rate This

Nothing on Rangers accounts at Companies House……………surprising!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If the accounts we are expecting to see are for the period to 30 June 2013 haven’t they got until the end of March to file them? Or am I missing something again?

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bogsdolloxPosted on10:28 pm - Feb 28, 2014


john clarke says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 21:19
________________________________________________________________

Excellent work JC. Is Thornhill on stage on Monday morning?

I was a bit taken aback by this exchange:

Lord D: how could I do that? I have not seen the witnesses?

But m’lord, in the case of Mrs crimson and the senior managers’ credibility, you have ALL the documents and papers and testimony.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

10/10 for laziness and avoiding responsiblity in one sentence!!

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dumfoonertPosted on10:35 pm - Feb 28, 2014


bogsdollox says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 22:00

As these are the first accounts from TRFC they must be filed within 21 months of the incorporation date. The incorporation date was 29/05/2012, so given that this is not a leap year the accounts must be filed by 28/02/2014.

See http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gp2.shtml#ch5 chapter 5 Part 6.

Hope this helps.

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Cluster 0nePosted on10:37 pm - Feb 28, 2014


john clarke says:
keep up the good work

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jean7brodiePosted on10:45 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Thanks JC, great account of the goings on as usual.

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ianagainPosted on10:56 pm - Feb 28, 2014


John great work again.

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bogsdolloxPosted on10:59 pm - Feb 28, 2014


dumfoonert says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 22:35

bogsdollox says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 22:00

As these are the first accounts from TRFC they must be filed within 21 months of the incorporation date. The incorporation date was 29/05/2012, so given that this is not a leap year the accounts must be filed by 28/02/2014.

See http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gp2.shtml#ch5 chapter 5 Part 6.

Hope this helps.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you.

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ptd1978Posted on11:01 pm - Feb 28, 2014


I reckon we should create a TSFM award for fans services to Scottish football
Given his Herculean efforts this week in sitting through a boring as sin tax dispute and still managing to make it comprehensible and entertaining for us, John Clarke should be the first name on the honours board.

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ianagainPosted on11:06 pm - Feb 28, 2014


So no accounts. What now?

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bogsdolloxPosted on11:09 pm - Feb 28, 2014


ianagain says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 23:06

So no accounts. What now?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More lies?

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ianagainPosted on11:11 pm - Feb 28, 2014


Yep
The John Clarke / Auldheid award for unflinching services tae Scottish fita

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ptd1978Posted on11:21 pm - Feb 28, 2014


I feel for Graham Wallace. I’m not sure he’s an out and out spiv, but in his situation I don’t see how he has any choice but to act like one.
As long as there’s a snowball in hell’s chance of investment in RIFC that might save it from administration, he can’t admit that admin is probably going to happen. If he does he’ll change the odds of a saviour coming in from almost zero to absolutely zero and be guilty of screwing existing shareholders. He obviously can’t lie either as that would also break various rules, so he’s left with a combination of non-denial denials and saying nothing.

You can see the conversation that got him through the doors in the first place…
“So Graham, you’ve got a football club on the CV, but frankly MCFC is a bit of a black mark for you. There was no need for fiscal responsibility, no need to balance books. It was a cake walk.With Rangers you would get a chance to show that you can really run a football club. We’ve got millions from the IPO but we’re still in the 3rd tier of Scottish football. We need to make some simple changes to the way the club is run now that everyone sees us as a continuation of the old club, but there’s nothing massively difficult there. For you though it would look like you’ve guided a fallen giant back to it’s place among the elite.”
GW gets sucked in, has a look at the books and realises that the millions have been p1ssed away, while he’s left with a serious case of top tier costs and third tier revenues.

He was sold a pup and I bet he wishes he’d never come within a million miles of Ibrox.

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ptd1978Posted on11:26 pm - Feb 28, 2014


ianagain
____

Absolutely! Auldheid belongs on the honours board too. Not just for his outstanding recent letter, but for a plethora of previous contributions.

Mods, is there any way that contributions of this kind can be recognised for posterity?

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bogsdolloxPosted on11:28 pm - Feb 28, 2014


ptd1978 says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 23:21
=+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If he’s as good as everyone says he is he would have had the sense not to take the job.

He is 2nd Division material fully at the disposal of the Spivs.

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bogsdolloxPosted on11:32 pm - Feb 28, 2014


john clarke says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 23:26

If so, then ,who knows,it might be quite late in the morning before Mr Thornhill gets involved.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That’s fine I’m no usually oot o’ ma scratcher until aboot nine.

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AuldheidAuldheidPosted on12:02 am - Mar 1, 2014


john clarke says:

Friday, February 28, 2014 at 23:26

If you get the chance ask Thornhill which of his faces advised Rangers to settle the wee tax bill in early March 2011 because Rangers had (gasp) concealed De Boer and Flo’s side letters from HMRC when they asked if any existed in 2005.

Apparently its OK for QCs to be multi faceted in each case they are involved in, their stock in trade I was told.

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bogsdolloxPosted on12:11 am - Mar 1, 2014


AuldheidAuldheid says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 00:02
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ooft – a punch to the solar plexus. But to be fair if Thornhill told them to settle then surely he did his job.

The concealment was by MG.

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AuldheidAuldheidPosted on12:16 am - Mar 1, 2014


I was just checking back to see just how much the BTC bill was estimated at and see BBC reported after the FTT that
“any bill is likely to be “substantially reduced” from the initial £46.2m assessment”

I got thinking,
Q .What is the difference to a QC between the Big Tax Case and the Wee Tax Case?

A.£43.4M 🙂

.

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AuldheidAuldheidPosted on12:19 am - Mar 1, 2014


bogsdollox says:

Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 00:11

Indeed and he is still doing it but advising differently. No big deal I understand.

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bogsdolloxPosted on12:34 am - Mar 1, 2014


AuldheidAuldheid says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 00:19
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sometimes QC’s/Advocates take on cases they know they can’t win but will improve their advocacy skillz at the expense of the client.

Thornhill builds his reputation on advocacy. He wins more than most and he swayed two lazy lawyers at the FTT but not the accountant who forensicaly sifted the evidence and evaluated the witnesses for credibility.

There are honest QC’s out there where I have taken strong cases to and they have advised me not to waste my time because my chances were no more than 50/50.

They are operating in a big money environment always looking to win the next big corporate instruction. It’s about money not the law. Never believe everyman is equal before the law because the law favours only one class and it’s not football fans.

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AuldheidAuldheidPosted on12:37 am - Mar 1, 2014


Lennox Castle questions answered under FOI

http://www.nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s81

Looks like Celtic paid over the valuation under due process.

Who would have thought?

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goosygoosyPosted on12:50 am - Mar 1, 2014


ptd1978 says:

Friday, February 28, 2014 at 23:21

I feel for Graham Wallace. I’m not sure he’s an out and out spiv, but in his situation I don’t see how he has any choice but to act like one.
,,,,,,,,,,

When you work at 30,00 ft you meet lots of sharks .And you decide very early on whether to join them or shun them
Believe me
People with real integrity dont work for people without integrity

Because someone comes across as a nice sincere individual oozing friendliness and making reassuring noises doesnt make him one of the good guys
If he was he would have resigned within a week when he discovered he had been spun a line during his interview
Nope
GW is doing a contract Spiv job for a Spiv co run by Spivs for the benefit of Spivs to milk the IPO funds grab the assets and get out when the carcase is reduced to bare bones

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redlichtiePosted on1:00 am - Mar 1, 2014


TRFC now officially showing as overdue.

Scottish Football is watching.

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redlichtiePosted on1:02 am - Mar 1, 2014


Accounts at Companies House that is! 🙂

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enoughx2Posted on1:15 am - Mar 1, 2014


redlichtie says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 01:00
2 0 Rate This
TRFC now officially showing as overdue.

Scottish Football is watching.

Red? You are slipping up m8

Surely “Scottish Football needs TRFC accounts”

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fisianiPosted on3:13 am - Mar 1, 2014


Just 60 hours till Administration. Wow!

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myohmy1Posted on6:53 am - Mar 1, 2014


Media still portraying McCoist as the honest broker and poor soul.

RANGERS manager Ally McCoist refused to discuss the ongoing power struggle at the club as he blanked questions about which faction had his backing.

The Light Blues boss has been left in an impossible situation by this week’s latest bitter fall-out.

Hedging his bets more like.

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on7:18 am - Mar 1, 2014


Did Celtic pay too much for Lennoxtown land..nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s81#para4 ….

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andy graham (@andygraham66)Posted on7:40 am - Mar 1, 2014


I posted yesterday that Mccoist was suffering from fence sitting and skelf picking, but he has obviously sat down with the papers after the cameras have been switched off and made his plea.

It seems to be a “my support will go to the side that provides the cash for the last great push to the CL music”

And that aint the incumbents

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/sport/football/mccoist-we-still-need-to-strengthen-squad-in-summer.23565964?_=0171c719798641cac9480ba061ccfb0d082eaf7d

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Long Time LurkerPosted on8:09 am - Mar 1, 2014


Looking at the internet bampot reports from the UTTT I am amazed that there is no media presence, at all, other than the first day.

The UTTT will play a key role in charting core elements of what is likely to be the most scandalous episode of cheating in regulation football.

Why then has the media vanished into the wind?

I cannot understand the lack of interest, where is our forth estate?

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upthehoopsPosted on8:14 am - Mar 1, 2014


Echobhoy will be interested in this FOI request I discovered elsewhere, regarding the sale of land at Lennoxtown to Celtic. Not that any of it will be a great surprise to him of course!

http://www.nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s81

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allyjamboPosted on8:16 am - Mar 1, 2014


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:

Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 07:18

Did Celtic pay too much for Lennoxtown land..nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s81#para4
__________________________________________

It’s a conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy!

Watch out, they’ll be claiming it must be money laundering now!

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upthehoopsPosted on8:22 am - Mar 1, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 08:09
================================
I await with interest to see if they report when Thornhill presents his case, which if repeated verbatim in a newspaper will make a really good news Rangers story.

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wjohnston1Posted on8:57 am - Mar 1, 2014


Up theropod / Ecobhoy
I too became aware of the report by NHS Greater Glasgow Health Board into the sale of the land at Lennox Castle Hospital.
The link is provided above for anyone interested.
In reading through it, and the accompanying correspondence one particular letter jumps out.
On 4th Feb 2005 Pollok & Buchan, property advisers to the GGHB sent a letter to the Board concerning the potential sale.
The last paragraph is particularly interesting.
“… I would comment that the proposal under consideration ( to sell the land to Celtic ) is a positive step forward for the objective of achieving a fully redeveloped hospital site. If taken through to fruition, there is in my view little doubt the scheme will gave a positive effect on other parts of the master plan for the site. This is likely to result in higher land values being achieved from the residential elements”
In other words by selling the land to Celtic we will get even more for the rest of the land.
Should Celtic not then have been offered the land at a reduced rate to help enhance the value of the rest of the site.
Interestingly not. Independent values valued it at £480,000 and Celtic paid £493,000.
State aid? Yes it was. Celtic aided the state to get more money for the site!!

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TW (@tartanwulver)Posted on9:16 am - Mar 1, 2014


Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 08:09

Why then has the media vanished into the wind?

I cannot understand the lack of interest, where is our forth estate?
—————————————————–
Or in the case of much of the mainstream media, ‘the froth estate’ might be more apt.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:22 am - Mar 1, 2014


upthehoops says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 08:14

Echobhoy will be interested in this FOI request I discovered elsewhere, regarding the sale of land at Lennoxtown to Celtic. Not that any of it will be a great surprise to him of course!

http://www.nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s81
======================================================
Ta! Very interesting find! I hadn’t spotted it probably because the Land ‘Experts’ came to realise there was nothing they could pin on Lennoxtown other than that people with ‘Timmy’ names seem to be employed in various public bodies and authorities. Gawd the country’s going to the dogs – they’ll be wanting the vote next 🙂

So my attention has been taken-up more with Westthorn which the ‘experts’ are desperately scrabbling about on trying to hide and deflect the actual truth and facts which destroy their wild allegations.

The people I feel really sorry for are the EC civil servants who have to read daily doses of demented p*sh from the nutters – I hope the Eurocrats have a sense of humour otherwise their sanity will be in danger.

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ecobhoyPosted on9:45 am - Mar 1, 2014


allyjambo says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 08:16
Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 07:18

Did Celtic pay too much for Lennoxtown land..nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s81#para4
__________________________________________

It’s a conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy! Watch out, they’ll be claiming it must be money laundering now!
===========================================================
I certainly think that Celtic paid too much for Lennoxtown and I have a bit of a theory I am working on and will post in due course as to why that was – it’s an interesting tale with strange connections – none of which have anything to do with Celtic I hasten to add. In fact quite the opposite.

And if they paid too much for Lennoxtown they were robbed over Westthorn by GCC. They had Celtic in a vice with their lease deal which meant they had to purchase the ground at the end of the lease with no get-out clause.

But Westthorn only fitted into the Celtic Vision for Parkhead if the club was able to purchase the old Belvidere Hospital site which was sold to a housing developer for a price way beyond what Celtic was prepared to pay for a training ground. IMO Celtic wasn’t interested in a vanity training complex just for the kudos and always looked towards how a new centre could provide an income towards defraying operational costs as well as fulfilling a state of the art training centre and Football Academy.

I think the income streams which I am talking about would have been much higher if the complex had been sited, as originally planned at Belvidere/Westthorn, quite simply on local population density and easy transport links to areas further afield.

Lennoxtown is a bit remote and has a low population catchment area – compared to Parkhead – but at the end of the day Westthorn without Belvidere could never provide a suitable base for the Celtic Vision. And there certainly is a WOW FACTOR at Lennoxtown with the surrounding countryside providing a beautiful backdrop.

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fara1968Posted on9:49 am - Mar 1, 2014


Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick to the back teeth of this 120 days nonsense. It has become the mantra of the MSM when they want to avoid asking or being asked cutting questions. Why has no one in the MSM never questioned why it should take so long? The 120 day quest seems to have taken on a biblical sanctity, (though in the biblical sense it did only take jesus 40 days to sort his troubles).
Mr Wallace what is your outgoings compared to your incomings? How long contractually are your outgoings and your incomings? What is the shortfall? Cut the costs of your shortfall.
There you go saved you 119 days 23 hours and 59 mins of work.

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twopandaPosted on9:53 am - Mar 1, 2014


In a Hypothetical Mood 😉
Hypothetically, –

IF, – Say, – there was a dash to pre-pack next week
– And they have borrowed wonga from themselves to pay for it [win-win & win]
But IF new duffers appeared – oops
The pre-pack could be ditched for a full admin [loadsa admin] with eventual
Sale to highest bidder thing like last time – but no spivs – irn bru & popcorn maybe
– but no spivs

Thing is – why didn`t DK act last time?
Can only guess they all thought Lord Cardigan & Co would take over the reins – and
No-one even on RTC in their wildest dreams could have foreseen LaVerts rapaciousness

Anyway
Back at the non-hypothetical ranch
Account’s posted overdue on Companies House
Surely that void`s the 5-way `deal` – business plan, projections, SFA license etc?
– Or will the SFA roll over and let the spivs tickle their tummy once again?
Blimey

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MarkPosted on9:53 am - Mar 1, 2014


I reckon we should create a TSFM award for fans services to Scottish football
Given his Herculean efforts this week in sitting through a boring as sin tax dispute and still managing to make it comprehensible and entertaining for us, John Clarke should be the first name on the honours board.
————–
The Golden Poon award?

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ecobhoyPosted on9:55 am - Mar 1, 2014


john clarke says:
Friday, February 28, 2014 at 23:26

But I feel that the judge might ask him on Monday for a clear suggestion on the practicalities of addressing the credibility of the witnesses without having seen them actually give their evidence. I think he was thinking of the likelihood that the Tribunal had been able over 3 and a half days’ of watching them give their testimony and would have seen any shifty eyes and other tell-tale body language, tone of voice, undue hesitancy, change of sentence in mid-flow, and so on.None of which can really be told from the bare printed page.
===============================================================
Ah but we have Heidi’s dissenting opinion which from memory – I really will need to re-read it but I thought I would wait till the end of the UTT evidence – makes reference to witness credibility.

And why not call her as a witness as to the opinion she formed having observed them and also taken the bother to examine the written evidence and, more importantly, understand it.

You could say the Two Duffers should also be called out of fairness but I have a distinct feeling their will be some arcane rule of court procedure that prevents a judge from being publicly questioned on such a matter.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:01 am - Mar 1, 2014


fara1968 says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 09:49

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick to the back teeth of this 120 days nonsense. It has become the mantra of the MSM when they want to avoid asking or being asked cutting questions. Why has no one in the MSM never questioned why it should take so long? The 120 day quest seems to have taken on a biblical sanctity, (though in the biblical sense it did only take jesus 40 days to sort his troubles).
====================================================================

And it only took his dad 7 days to build the world. So if it’s going to take 120 days to just find out what’s wrong with Rangers never mind rebuild it then it must be in a helluva bad state or else Wallace is no Master Mason 🙂

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fara1968Posted on10:17 am - Mar 1, 2014


@ Ecobhoy
Or maybe the 120th day will mark the return of Charlie. I’m sure there was a libertine who sought a 120 day investigation into dark matters holed up in a French chateau. 🙂

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ecobhoyPosted on10:17 am - Mar 1, 2014


wjohnston1 says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 08:57

Up theropod / Ecobhoy
I too became aware of the report by NHS Greater Glasgow Health Board into the sale of the land at Lennox Castle Hospital.

In reading through it, and the accompanying correspondence one particular letter jumps out.
On 4th Feb 2005 Pollok & Buchan, property advisers to the GGHB sent a letter to the Board concerning the potential sale.

The last paragraph is particularly interesting.
“… I would comment that the proposal under consideration ( to sell the land to Celtic ) is a positive step forward for the objective of achieving a fully redeveloped hospital site. If taken through to fruition, there is in my view little doubt the scheme will gave a positive effect on other parts of the master plan for the site. This is likely to result in higher land values being achieved from the residential elements”
==========================================
Well, that’s Pollok & Buchan added to the Haters’ Wall and the FoI requests will be flying demanding to know if anyone in the firm from the partners to the teaboy/girl has ever accepted hospitality from Celtic 🙂

But you’ve made a good point and I suppose it’s possible that Celtic may well have been aware of the implications of State Aid and wisely decided that in order to thwart any future allegations that it made sense to pay a bit above the independent valuer’s report.

The madness of the Bear Land ‘Idiot’ Fth was shown in one of his early posts when he claimed that an official of GGHB had personally agreed and signed the Lennoxtown deal with Celtic without reference to anyone else. And the evidence? Well he had a ‘Timmy’ sounding name and someone with that surname had played for celtic in 19 canteen. And heaven forbid the official might support Celtic and could even be a Celtic shareholder.

Sometimes I weep over the poison oozing out of the bigots who slither in the primordial swamp that blights our country and which no one in authority has the guts to tackle in case they lose votes. The only people more cowardly than the SMSM IMO are the leadership of every Scottish political party who don’t want to upset the gravy train.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:24 am - Mar 1, 2014


fara1968 says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 10:17

@ Ecobhoy
Or maybe the 120th day will mark the return of Charlie. I’m sure there was a libertine who sought a 120 day investigation into dark matters holed up in a French chateau. 🙂
========================================================
When the ‘King over the Water’ is toasted it usually refers to Bonnie Price Charlie living his exile in France so perhaps the Latter Day Charlie might yet return and again inherit his ‘Rightful Kingdom’ at Ibrox. He’ll need to hurry though or he might find the treasury chest bare although I’m sure a special Bear ST Tax will soon have it refilled.

Or perhaps the ‘King over the Water’ is our Dave returning in glory to the land of his birth – tax collectors have always had cameo roles of course from Bethlehem to Ibrox via South Africa!

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allyjamboPosted on10:31 am - Mar 1, 2014


fara1968 says:

Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 09:49

And at the end of the 120 day review, he’ll announce to the public, ‘here you are, here’s what went wrong, there was some naughty people running the club – before us!’ while he’s already completed his proper task of providing his bosses/paymasters with a plan to maximise their profit/minimise their loss. It might take a month or so to turn over every stone, in any messed up company the size of RIFC/TRFC, to find all the wastage that exists, but only a few days, at most, to discover the major problem areas. It’s sorting them that’s the problem. There is no need to identify every minute problem before starting to fix the major ones, if fixing them is the intention, and so far there’s not much fixing going on. Put another way, if your ship is holed below the waterline, you put all your effort into repairing the hole before asking the passengers to fill in a survey about how they’d like the ship to look. Of course, it has been known for ships to sink, or at least to disappear, and their owners to get richer at the same time!

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John ClarkPosted on11:18 am - Mar 1, 2014


I am not sure that the UTTT judge himself can call witnesses to be re-examined. I think he can relate only to the transcript of the original hearing, and to the arguments advanced at the appeal hearing that he presides over.
He has only two options: either to make, on the paper evidence, additional findings of fact that the First Tier did not and then decide, again on the basis of the paper evidence and counsels’ arguments, whether the First Tier erred in law in any of the possible ways, OR remit to a freshly constituted Tribunal which CAN re-examine the witnesses etc etc.

Not being sure about any of this, I googled around for a bit, and came across the link below, which is quite useful guidance and explanations , written for the lay person.

http://www.cara-online.org/AppealingtotheUpperTribunalagainstaFirstTierTribunaldecision.html

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100bjdPosted on11:29 am - Mar 1, 2014


Dogs,

No the date is correct definitely……….any way I suspect that Deloittes are not going to sing them off triggering Laxeys plan b, which I touched on last week, of being the major secured (by way of the charged property) creditors which they will utilise will to start and control the prepack administration.

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John ClarkPosted on11:43 am - Mar 1, 2014


100bjd says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 11:29
‘….any way I suspect that Deloittes are not going to sing them off triggering Laxeys plan b, …’
—————-
Nice wee typo there, 100bjd: conjures up images of a barber shop quartet at the top of the marble staircase!
Like you, I think Laxey , if not already in the driving seat, are doing a lot of back seat driving to steer the vehicle into a car crash. That appears to be the way they operate,whatever the nature of the businesses that they buy into. Where there are assets that make it worth the effort, force the ‘underperforming’ company out of business to get at those assets.
CW could take lessons from them.Maybe he did!

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Lord WobblyPosted on11:48 am - Mar 1, 2014


TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 09:16
Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 08:09
Why then has the media vanished into the wind?
I cannot understand the lack of interest, where is our forth estate?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All at sea?

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100bjdPosted on12:01 pm - Mar 1, 2014


John….sorry about that it was not meant to be freudian although I see your point! Congratulations on all your sterling work by the way…excelent stuff. Laxeys are not spivs in my opinion, they simply behave like aggressive hedge funds and make money for their shareholders. Capitalism they call it!
Green, Whyte, Ahmad, Mather etc were undoubtedly spivs and I do think there is a difference. Wallace, as I have written before, looks like a man out of his depth. The big CV at City , as mentioned by someone earlier, simply meant spending lots of money and not having to reconstruct an unreconstructable business.

Admin2 is going to be interesting. I think there was a lack of interest by The Bears big hitters before because they could not be involved in an administration or worse a liquidation. That was clearly Whytes job with him getting paid off and the real Bears appearing later as saviours (There always has to be a saviour!). However Imran and Chico through the famous Sevco 5088 novation to Sevco Scotland scuppered that particular plan and the new game will be played.and we bampots will be watching………..

I am glad this is not happening to my beloved club….although nobody in fairness would really be that interested!

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allyjamboPosted on12:04 pm - Mar 1, 2014


john clarke says:

Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 11:43

100bjd says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 11:29
‘….any way I suspect that Deloittes are not going to sing them off triggering Laxeys plan b, …’
—————-
Nice wee typo there, 100bjd: conjures up images of a barber shop quartet at the top of the marble staircase!
______________________________________

Could be the Spivs’ anthem 😉

Altogether now, one, two, three:

“The accountant’s not going to sign the accounts,
pull the trigger, pull the trigger…
We leave by the back door with large amounts,
pull the trigger, pull the trigger.
The authorities sometimes slap our wrist,
We go to the pub and just get pist,
We know every loophole in the book there is,
We know when to pull the trigger…”

OK,OK, I’ve still not found my medication!

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100bjdPosted on12:12 pm - Mar 1, 2014


allyjambo says:

Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 12:04

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john clarke says:

Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 11:43

100bjd says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 11:29
‘….any way I suspect that Deloittes are not going to sing them off triggering Laxeys plan b, …’
—————-
Nice wee typo there, 100bjd: conjures up images of a barber shop quartet at the top of the marble staircase!
______________________________________

Could be the Spivs’ anthem 😉

Altogether now, one, two, three:

“The accountant’s not going to sign the accounts,
pull the trigger, pull the trigger…
We leave by the back door with large amounts,
pull the trigger, pull the trigger.
The authorities sometimes slap our wrist,
We go to the pub and just get pist,
We know every loophole in the book there is,
We know when to pull the trigger…”

OK,OK, I’ve still not found my medication

———————————————————————————————————————–

Ally you will have to keep looking!!

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sanoffymessssoitizzhizzemdyfonedrapolisPosted on12:13 pm - Mar 1, 2014


john clarke says: Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 11:18

John, I agree with your anaysis.

The parameters for the UTT were set by the following decision of Judge Colin Bishop on 17 july 2013 which were published on 9 August 2013.

http://www.tribunals.gov.uk/financeandtax/Documents/decisions/HMRC-v-Murray-Group.pdf

As the Decision is only 10 pages long (Or is that “short” for a Judge!?) it’s best read in it’s entirety to understand Lord Bishop’s analysis and suggested resolutions.

If Lord Doherty diverged from Judge Bishop’s decision then I think he would have to set out in detail why in his own decision, whatever that might be.

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slimshady61Posted on12:15 pm - Mar 1, 2014


redlichtie says:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 at 01:00
——————————————–
Read my lips from 4 weeks ago, no TRFC accounts is THE story, not the Spivs, not the securitised Wonga loans, not the King over the watter – no accounts is the story. Accounts are the key to the licence to play football and, in time, the key to European football of any sort.

No reputable firm of auditors can put their name to TRFC’s June 13 accounts because of the evident going concern issues. There will never be a set of TRFC accounts filed because they would detail who took what out of the business, out of the IPO monies etc.

There are vested interests at play who will make it their business that these accounts never see the light of day.

As for administration, everyone swallowed the “120 day” review story unquestioningly. But I ask you, 120 days? That is 4 months – even multi-billion pound banks get their accounts sorted within 6 weeks of the year end – it should not have required Wallace more than 30 days at most, but even allowing for the fact he was newly in the door we could have stretched it to 60. But if anyone needs 120 days to see if a company is doing well or not, the answer is in the question.

The Bears will take their 15 point/ 28 point (pay your money take your choice) deduction before the end of this season; the Spivs will make it clear to the King supporters (a) that he has not so far put up 1 penny in financial support and (b) if the fans follow his advice and withhold season book monies, the club will in addition face a 15 point deduction at the start of next season for still being in administration.

So if they want the club in the Premiership in 15/16, the fans need to pony up now, in full” will be the message, loud & clear.

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slimshady61Posted on12:18 pm - Mar 1, 2014


Sorry, Auldheid, meant to say very good post and very best of luck with it.

But many fans on here will be totally in the dark as to what you are getting at since, to paraphrase Jock Stein, “football enquiries, without attachments, mean nothing.”

I strongly suspect your letter will simply go into administrative filing and never be heard of again. It’s the Scottish football way….

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