As we all know, this site emerged from the ashes of RTC. The wish of the original administrator of the site, one which I wholeheartedly share, was to keep together the wonderful community RTC had built, in terms of both personnel and spirit. There are still many individuals around who were also part of RTC, and regrettably many who are no longer with us. The RTC spirit however, that of a cross-party football site where issues can be discussed in a respectful and insightful manner remains. The “wisdom of the crowd” phenomenon is also with us to perhaps an even greater extent than before, and consequently SFM’s credentials as a formidable alternative to the print media have grown.
In recent times, many contributors have expressed frustration that we are pretty much a talking shop and little else; characterised as “a lot of gum bashing and no teeth”. I think that is fair comment up to a point, but then again our aim – up to now – has been to simply present an alternative view – a view that has increasingly become the fan view as opposed to the industry view (the industry being made up of club officials, players, and press).
In fact the way I see it personally, SFM has evolved to a point where it has become the watchdog (monitor if you will) of an industry which is subject to very little oversight. The Rangers situation will eventually be done with (no laughing at the back please), and like everything else will be consigned to history (albeit more than one). The same self-interest and lack of regard for sporting integrity though will still remain, and the need for oversight will remain also.
Having arrived at those conclusions, we have two alternatives; the first is to remain as we are (which is not a bad place to be), and the second is that SFM has to expand its role.
In recent weeks, the mods have met to discuss this, and we think that we ought to give the latter option a try. As to how we want to achieve that, and we have come up with a skeleton plan as follows;
1. We need to move into the area of gathering news content as well as commenting on what appears elsewhere;
2. We should act as a cross-club portal to get good fan site content from all clubs to a wider audience;
3. We need to highlight the positives in the game as well as the negatives;
4. We should become an actively campaigning body, aligning with fan groups to lobby for the changes we think important.
In order to achieve these objectives, more time will need to be spent on communication like podcasts, adding news content, expanding membership and building links with other fan groups. Time will also need to be spent setting up features, attending press conferences etc. Later in the year, one of the mods will have much more time on his hands to help achieve this.
Podcasts, premium content, labour, organisation and all of the above costs money, and ultimately a subscription based model backed by sponsorship seems to be our best way of achieving that. In order to give us a head start, we will in the next few months be putting together a business-plan and a pitch for Crowd Funding investment.
This is not to say that our existing model has been a failure. We have successfully managed to keep ourselves afloat through the ad-hoc generosity of people in our community, although the inability to keep the podcasts going has been a bit frustrating. Finding income streams which are more solid will allow us to respond to events more quickly (for example mounting an ad campaign to respond to some event or other, or buying new equipment), and hopefully achieve all of our objectives – and build a bigger audience base for our message.
Of course a move of this nature will require that, in the interests of transparency, anonymity of SFM will have to be set aside. That will not affect any of our contributors, and our practice of using (sometimes) imaginative names on the blog will remain. However, for crowd funding to be successful, we will require to have a board in place, and there is no hiding place from Companies House. The make up of the board is also crucial, and in addition to consideration of blog members for that role, we will be looking to have respected people from without.
I imagine there may be a consequent subtle effect on moderation policy to take into account.
The reason I have made this post is to keep the community up to speed with events. Although we have decided to move forward to see if we can get support for our business plan, that plan is by no means finished. As I said earlier, the “wisdom of crowds” has made our community unique and given it its credibility. There’s a lot more wisdom out there we hope to tap into before we go ahead with our initiative.
We already had someone in mind for chairman of the new board, but events have conspired tragically to rob us of that – and had the effect of postponing this announcement. However we would like to hear suggestions for suitable outside candidates for board and committee places.
We also want to hear from you if you have a suggestion to be added to our wish list of SFM function above – or even if you think it is a mistake to embark on this course.
This is a very big move for SFM, so we don’t want to rush into anything. We need to listen to what you folks have to say, because if the merging SFM is not considered a better SFM by our community there is very little point in looking to fund it.
Oh and Wings Scotland is worth a look today on one of the site’s latest polling questions: agree or disagree with the proposition “The football club currently playing as ‘Rangers’ is a brand-new club formed in 2012″. It’s in a wider piece about the BBC.
See http://wingsoverscotland.com/falling-out-with-auntie/#more-71222
Good Morning
You would have been forgiven for thinking that league reconstruction is acquiring momentum from the top of the SPFL if you had simply read Keith Jackson’s Tweet last night, and then the 6am trailer piece this morning, which declared it to be “back on the cards, but NOT to help Rangers up”.
However, a somewhat different picture emerged when we finally got to read the actual Q&A with Neil Doncaster…
Here is a short post reviewing this damp squib!
[NB “Damp Squib Blog Discusses ‘Damp Squib’ Record Piece” was my working title, but even The Clumpany isn’t *that* self-effacing! No, really…]
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/05/14/league-deconstruction/
Enjoy the rest of the day!
Well, yesterday we get the news that Mike Ashley wants his money back, and some answers.
Today, from a source much more trustworthy than the MSM, we hear that the SFA have found a convicted criminal to be fit and proper to sit on the board of a football club, where he will, undoubtedly, be the driving force of that board.
There can be little doubt that the breaking of yesterdays news is connected to the FPP decision, and lends weight to Trisidium’s report, so we can expect the news, very soon, that Mike has got his money back and that there is money in the bank to pay the May salaries!
Interesting, isn’t it, how the SFA can pass King as fit and proper just as the announcement’s made that a very powerfull shareholder of RIFC is questioning the very first, and so far only, actions of the man since winning the EGM vote! What’s more, the thrust of those questions actually question the honesty of Mr Fit And Proper!
Danish Pastry at 7:55 am
Interesting in that where did the payments go? and where from?.
I’m not suggesting for a moment that these were not all ‘above board’ or ‘on the level’, but surely someone must ask whether these payments were paid to player or agent or even to another Club……….
Allyjambo at 9:07 am
If true, its a disaster for Scottish Football and for the new *Rangers…..
Ashley preparing for NUFC relegation is an interesting angle and fits events. When his lawyers present at the English Football League they will be able to say:
a) Ashley asked the board for his £5mil loan back and they said “no, not now”
b) Ashley then called an EGM to ask the RIFC shareholders to pay back the loan – and they said ????
c) Ashley would like to sell his RIFC shares but the board have engineered a perverse situation where he is unable to. He raised quesions about this at an EGM and has received unsatisfactory answers and is now taking legal action.
d) Ashley has since put his shares into a trust so he has no control.
In conclusion, Ashley has done everything possible to resolve the situation and is still trying. EFL, have a heart, give him a break.
btw, NUFC are pretty unlikely to go down given the current points and run ins, so Ashley’s new position can easily be reversed if not needed. I beleive it’s called thinking ahead and planning.
Sadly, if true, the declaration of DCK as a FPP comes as no great surprise. It also doesn’t offend me personally as his role in RIFC is being assumed in plain sight with the support of the majority of the stockholders. However, I t always comes back to the rules. If you’re not going to apply them and persistently use ‘discretion’ as your trump card, why have them? Are they maybe meant for other people?
King as F&P says more about the SFA than it does about King. We all know the exact position of King re directorships and convictions. But we would have formal confirmation of the SFA’s position regarding its own rules and the integrity of its collective judgement. Any SFA official who voted against it should declare themselves, say why they demurred, then resign. Otherwise we must assume they all agree with this traversty and deserve equal contenpt.
TheClumpany says:
Member: (16 comments)
We’ve often read how the writer of a newspaper article is not responsible for the misleading and sensationalist nature of the headlines attached to their work. Well KJ has not only had two such headlines attached to his articles, one of the articles is, itself, a work of absolute nonsense and as ludicrous as any of the worst Sun headlines.
And as for the questions for Neil Doncaster! In what wasn’t exactly Paxmanesque, Raman Bardwaj, yesterday, at least managed to ask questions Doncaster clearly didn’t want to answer – and so didn’t! But Jackson’s questions couldn’t have been kinder if Doncaster had written them, himself.
But this really takes the biscuit, taken from his version of what Doncaster said:
‘Doncaster, though, denied that a new 16 team top flight could be rushed through in time for next season as a safety net should Rangers fail to win promotion to the Premiership through the play-offs.’
Keith, where does Doncaster even mention ‘Rangers’? Not once in your interview does he touch on them. The only mention of your club is made by you, and Doncaster doesn’t seem to be aware that you have framed your question in a poor attempt to make it look like any change won’t be for the benefit of that one club. So, if you think/want us all to think, that the football governors don’t do things to help TRFC, Doncaster hasn’t said anything to back that up!
One thing these two articles have made very clear, confirming what we already knew, is that Keith Jackson’s articles bear no relation to what he has actually been told and bear no resemblance to the truth.
Big mistake to write an article showing his interpretation of what was said alongside what is presented as the actual words spoken!
Some time later…
If people didn’t click through to the Wings Over Scotland story, its poll says the following:
“The football club currently playing as ‘Rangers’ is a brand-new club formed in 2012″
Yes: 66% Celtic fans, 53% fans of other Scottish clubs, 28% Rangers fans
No: 66% Rangers fans, 36% fans of other Scottish clubs, 26% Celtic fans
So two-thirds of Celtic fans and a majority of fans of other clubs think Rangers died in 2012. Two-thirds of Rangers supporters disagree.
What surprises me is that over a third of fans of other clubs and a shade over a quarter of Celtic fans think Rangers didn’t die in 2012 while more than a quarter of Rangers fans think they did.
Polls can go up and down, terms and conditions apply, don’t take any wooden money etc
Trisidium
I think or is it hope that there might be some horsetrading going on between FFP and FPP.
The domestic game needs the application of the same principles suitably scaled where necessary that UEFA FFP contains.
However as will be demonstrated in time if proper policing of the rules does not occur then it leaves the way wide open for dishonest operators to say what they like in their own self interest.
If DK is allowed to return unbridled by tighter rules rigorously policed then we might as well all chuck it.
Not only would an unbridled return signal that the SFA have learned nothing, worse than that it tells us our clubs simply don’t want to play fair by each other and their supporters.
I sometimes use a quote from Soccernomics that says “as oil is to the oil industry so stupidity is to football”.
When it comes to stupidity allowing DK any role in Scottish football with no cast iron verifiable conditions attached would put our administrators and clubs into the CL stupidest finalist category.
What our game needs more than ever are trust restoring measures (and if I were a sponsoring bookmaker I would be insisting on them for who wants to bet on a game that is perceived as bent) and I see little sign of admission that such measures are necessary.
Quite the reverse the last 4 years have been spent by SFA on Res12 and SFA/SPFL on LNS covering up just how necessary such measures are.
The folk involved need to be cleared out, not welcomed back.
Auldheid says:
Blog Writer: (418 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 10:16 am
We will be told by the SFA that assurances have been given; surely that will put your mind at ease 🙄
mcfc says:
May 14, 2015 at 10:00 am
we would have formal confirmation of the SFA’s position regarding its own rules and the integrity of its collective judgement.
==============================================
MCFC (and others), the SFA have not broken or bent any rules here, there is no rule barring directors due to not being fit and proper only the option to do so.
Judgement is of course a different matter, but I doubt any ruling against King would have prevented him taking up a directorship at TRIFC in any case.
I suspect the FPP side of things is largely unenforceable and therefore pointless….I just think the SFA don’t want to admit it.
Ally Jambo
We will need a lot more than a couple of soundbite statements.
Verifiable indicators that FFP is being rigorously applied so that all clubs can check on each other.
On the assumption that King has been passed as “fit and proper”, which I do not doubt for a moment, I thought it might be useful to set out the list of characters responsible for the decision, being the members of the SFA’s Professional Game Board. Here they are-
Chairman- Rod Petrie
Members- Neil Doncaster, Peter Lawell, Duncan Fraser, Mike Mulraney, Ralph Topping, Sandy Stables, Andy Waddell, Stewart Regan, Campbell Ogilvie, Alan McRae
I wonder whether Ogilvie declared himself “conflicted”, and took no part in the process?
In any case, I expect to see resignations from those who on principle opposed King’s coronation- well I would in any normally functioning organisation, but hang on, it’s the SFA. So I actually expect a deafening and dignified silence from all those involved.
I did wonder, though- Craig Whyte, with no criminal record that I am aware of, failed the SFA fit and proper test (eventually). If King is anointed as “fit and proper”, does Whyte not have good grounds for having his own status revisited? Surely he is entitled to expect a degree of consistency in the SFA’s decision making? Why should he be “tarred and feathered”, while someone who is clearly, on the evidence, less fit and proper gets the blessing of the SFA?
The Doncaster interview on STV; did it give anyone else the feeling that they were watching a trial run of a Harry Enfield character, dropped without airing because it was unfunny?
I could well imagine a Harry Enfield character based on Neil Doncaster, a well educated, dim-but-not-nice, totally incompitent business executive type of thing. ‘Ultimately’ a disaster!
And on the subject of the Neil Doncaster interview. There can be lttle doubt that the timing of it’s airing was at the behest of the SPFL governors, possibly encouraged by a request from Stewart Regan to ‘get some good news out there, we are going to announce we’ve passed Dave King as fit and proper.’
Anyway if DK knew he was being passed as F&P he’d need to be turning his assets into cash so you’d expect signs and portents as it were….this sort of thing I guess… 😀 ..
http://artdaily.com/news/42127/Irma-Stern-Makes-New–pound-2-4-Million-World-Record-for-South-African-Art-at-Bonhams-in-London#.VVRyIWpwYv4
Auldheid says:
Blog Writer: (419 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 10:39 am
Which do you think we are most likely to get? Soundbites or verifiable indicators! The former would, in itself, create no problems for the SFA, the latter would, very soon I’m sure, give them one, or maybe many, almighty headache!
I’m sure Stewart Regan will only be concerned with what happens between now and when he leaves for another job. He won’t care how what he does now affects Scottish football in, say, two years time, and so won’t want to introduce anything that gives him, or the SFA, cause to meaningfully check on the financial arrangements of any club, let alone one run by a man of the morals and integrity of Dave King.
If Dave King can keep the lights on at Ibrox till Stewart Regan leaves, and the fall-out for the rest of the clubs doesn’t come to light too soon either, then Stewart Regan will leave feeling it’s a job well done.
Men like Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster are only concerned with their careers, not with the wellbeing of Scottish football. They are everywhere in business, commerce, finance, hence the state the country finds itself in; and those who care(d) have long since been put out to grass.
parttimearab says:
Member: (320 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 10:33 am
MCFC (and others), the SFA have not broken or bent any rules here, there is no rule barring directors due to not being fit and proper only the option to do so.
===========================================================
Agree the SFA will not have broken rules – but only because the rules are unbreakable – given the degree of latitude they have built into them. “Discretion” is the wrong word.
That the SFA have such useless rules in one indictment. They amount to “Do what you want on a case by case basis, as you see fit, without concern about precedents and without oversight by a higher appeal body”. That the rules are then exercised with such unashamed bias to benefit their favourite club is another indictment.
Regardless of the rules, does anyone really think a man of King’s track record is a character good for Scottish football? Would he even get a hearing if he was not both:
a) a certified RRM,
b) thought to have millions to pump into the SFA’s favourite club
The SFA seem to be in the tiny minority who think the current situation is recoverable – with Old Firm, two club dominance restorable in the next few years. Are the SFA:
a) utterly deluded,
b) lacking any creative thinking for the alternatives,
c) relying on King promises to deliver the moon
d) frozen in the headlights waiting to be road kill.
Sorry if this has been covered but can someone tell me why Ashley would not have stipulated a repayment period for the £5m loan? Who lends money without agreeing when it will be repaid?
“Repayable on demand” is the key. At the point of making the loan, he had no plans to ask for repayment.
Tempus fugit cum ludis.
Now he wants it repaid. Simples.
Well, today I’m making On Fields of Green history and defending Neil Doncaster. But only in the context of the spin the Daily Record put on his exclusive interview with them …
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/going-on-the-record/
Thanks for the quick response but I’m still confused. If it’s payable on demand why call for an EGM? I wouldn’t have though requesting an EGM would be standard practice when asking for a loan repayment.
Surely you just ask for your money back and go to the courts if it’s not forthcoming?
I would have thought the new regime could reject the request on the basis that an EGM is not the proper place for such discussions.
Sorry but not for the first time in this saga, I just don’t get it. Ecobhoy was great at explaining this stuff to the likes of me 🙁
Gym Trainer says:
Member: (44 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 11:55 am
And, of course, at this point he hasn’t requested/demanded repayment. He’s merely, as a RIFC shareholder, proposed that the company (voluntarily) repay the loan.
He may well be holding the ‘demand’ facility in reserve for a time when it could cause maximum embarrassment for the people that have caused him most disquiet!
Jungle Jim says:
May 14, 2015 at 12:07 pm
Thanks for the quick response but I’m still confused. If it’s payable on demand why call for an EGM? I wouldn’t have though requesting an EGM would be standard practice when asking for a loan repayment.
——————————————————–
Maybe so that MASH could put out a statement that gave a list of questions that should be asked of King and his merry men? If so, it worked, even the Scottish press picked up on it when the words came out of someone else’s mouth.
So the requisitioners who cost the entity £300,000 for an EGM are being asked to find £300,000 to fund an EGM asking them to voluntarily repay £5,000,000 at a time when they are using pay day loans to pay pay! not only that, if MA as the New Requisitioner loses at the EGM he can then demand the £5,000,000 anyway. I always have sneaky admiration for a man who is able to negotiate with himself and this is such writ large.
The bright light for the Govanite might be that the sale of the £160 million Picasso might find the next stage of the mission on the way to their promised land-however the downside is that such a thing is their best hope and the likeliest of contingencies. Cue Private Fraser outside the main stand.
King Breaker
In my opinion, Ashley has all the cards and is toying with King. Putting aside the NUFC relegation issue, the EGM resolution asks the shareholders to repay the loan, going over KIng’s head as Chairman (elect). King does not control enough shares to dictate what happens. The shareholders were told by King that money was not a problem, there would be no austerity and his new regime would see The Rangers back to where they belong in the land of milk and honey. At least T3B now know that was never true. But who could blame the shareholders for voting for the repayment to go ahead based on King’s promises in order to get the property back and the beloved trademarks back. Unless of course, King contradicts himself with some convoluted logic that now is not the time and that Ashley is up to no good and that the shareholders should not want the properties and trademarks back – which would be interesting.
Of course all this is just playground stuff if King gets F&P and slaps £10mil on the table, to be followed by another £10mil by the end of the year.
Jungle Jim,
My reading of the situation is that he request for an EGM is no wholly connected to he repayment demand, but more to do with the attached questions re de-listing, lack of Nomad, etc., which would fall under the remit of an EGM.
The_Pie_Man says:
May 13, 2015 at 11:59 am
I see from the latest offering from the BBC that Charles Green was involved in a Takeover of “Rangers” and not just buying the Assets of the Bankrupt Former Club.. Is this the New Lie to be peddled by the Media ?
__________________________________
This is not a new lie
The_Pie_Man says:
May 13, 2015 at 2:40 pm
Has Spiers just grown a pair but today in the Herald he quite clearly states that Rangers FC were Liquidated.. Is the Truth sinking in at last or are the Supporters being lined up for really Bad News but its not that Bad Lads as its only a NEW Club anyway ?
_________________________________________________
He most certainly hasn’t grown a pair. Spiers blows with the breeze and every once in a while lobs in a wee “truth” grenade like this, perhaps to curry a little favour with the bampots and to grasp at any shred of credibility he can get, however the prevailing wind is distinctly succulent and the vast majority of his output reflects this. In fact, so lacking in the cojones dept is he that he’ll often “balance” things out with succulent material in the very same article.
Reality Check
Karl prefers Milton Keynes giants to Glasgow giants.
Stuart, thanks ta-ra, hope that helps motivate you for the QoS second leg.
http://www.mkweb.co.uk/RANGERS-MK-Dons-manager-Karl-Robinson-turns/story-26502574-detail/story.html
Allyjambo on May 14, 2015 at 11:07 am
The Doncaster interview on STV; did it give anyone else the feeling that they were watching a trial run of a Harry Enfield character, dropped without airing because it was unfunny?
I could well imagine a Harry Enfield character based on Neil Doncaster, a well educated, dim-but-not-nice, totally incompitent business executive type of thing. ‘Ultimately’ a disaster!
And on the subject of the Neil Doncaster interview. There can be lttle doubt that the timing of it’s airing was at the behest of the SPFL governors, possibly encouraged by a request from Stewart Regan to ‘get some good news out there, we are going to announce we’ve passed Dave King as fit and proper.’
///////////////////
Sounds like an episode of
https://youtu.be/Ss4s1ubQglU
any coin heads/accountants out there want to look at MIH/ *Rangers accounts from 2001 – 2004. The FTT dissenting opinion noted that the auditors had made a qualification in regards to the spreading out of the`EBT’ payments and no specific amounts were mentioned. The Ardvaladze (sub trust number? / ‘place name’? unknown) is of interest. Reports that the actual fee was nearer £8.5m rather than the disclosed £2m signing fee doesn’t add up.
thanks in advance!
Just noticed on another forum that the Arveladze rumour is mentioned in a red top (don’t know which one). Apparently linked to a court case between him and Ajax.
If the claim is true, could the reason that the additional cost involved doesn’t show up in the Rangers accounts is that it came from another source? MIH or some other undislosed entity. Could there be more dealings hidden from the SFA than those linked to EBTs? Could it be a method of moving money around to keep it hidden from, say, tax authorities? Is paying transfer fees from an undisclosed source breaking SFA or league rules?
One things for sure, if there is truth behind the claim, then the true cost wasn’t hidden for any good, honourable or honest reason!
Allyjambo says at 2:44 pm
Exactly my thoughts…..
Not just ‘red tops’. Its here too http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/former-rangers-strikers-agent-claims-club-paid-four-times-publicised-fee.126003045
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11604763/Mike-Ashley-ready-to-fight-on-two-fronts-as-Newcastle-owner-takes-on-Rangers-and-Scottish-Football-Association.html
a demand that the Rangers board hold a general meeting at which – amongst several resolutions – they would be asked to explain why the club’s shares have been delisted and under what terms they had accepted a loan from the Three Bears consortium of wealthy supporters.
However, it can be disclosed that Rangers were able recently to access sufficient cash – not from, but via, the Three Bears – to bridge the gap until season ticket renewals,
________
another ticketus type deal 😯 ?
I can’t access the Herald page but I notice on the comments a few folk are adamant that the full fee went through on that years accounts and it was all above board.
All i can see is on Wiki and the page for that years transfers has it down as £2 million.
TBK says:
Member: (127 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 2:16 pm
any coin heads/accountants out there want to look at MIH/ *Rangers accounts from 2001 – 2004. The FTT dissenting opinion noted that the auditors had made a qualification in regards to the spreading out of the`EBT’ payments and no specific amounts were mentioned. The Ardvaladze (sub trust number? / ‘place name’? unknown) is of interest. Reports that the actual fee was nearer £8.5m rather than the disclosed £2m signing fee doesn’t add up.
thanks in advance!
====================
Back in March 2013 Scotland’s leading newspaper 😉 reported that Arveladze had a side letter but the EBT amount was unknown.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-ebts-players-what-secret-1736859
andy says:
Member: (51 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 3:10 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11604763/Mike-Ashley-ready-to-fight-on-two-fronts-as-Newcastle-owner-takes-on-Rangers-and-Scottish-Football-Association.html
a demand that the Rangers board hold a general meeting at which – amongst several resolutions – they would be asked to explain why the club’s shares have been delisted and under what terms they had accepted a loan from the Three Bears consortium of wealthy supporters.
However, it can be disclosed that Rangers were able recently to access sufficient cash – not from, but via, the Three Bears – to bridge the gap until season ticket renewals,
________
another ticketus type deal ? ?
_________________
Another succulent type puff piece 🙄
King and 3 bears = good (tax evasion and lies are good)
Everybody else = bad (not being a Real Rangers Man is bad)
Ibrox Noise expecting King F&P
AND expecting him to pony up big time and pronto
NO pressure there Mr King – just fund my wet dreams
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2015/05/dave-king-passed-fit-proper.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11604763/Mike-Ashley-ready-to-fight-on-two-fronts-as-Newcastle-owner-takes-on-Rangers-and-Scottish-Football-Association.html
Who believes that? It makes no sense whatsoever other than wishful thinking. He’s a shareholder who also has a contract with the club to provide merchandise. In which parallel universe does his inability to increase his shareholding mean his contract can be ripped up?
gogs says:
Member: (15 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 3:11 pm
I can’t access the Herald page but I notice on the comments a few folk are adamant that the full fee went through on that years accounts and it was all above board.
All i can see is on Wiki and the page for that years transfers has it down as £2 million.
===================================
Arveladze transferred to Rangers 01/09/2001.
His cost should then have been reflected in the Rangers accounts for the year ended 30 June 2002.
In the attached accounts below there is no specific reference to Averladze.
There is a reference on page 7;
“…The registrations of three new players together with the new management team were acquired during the year at a cost of £8.7m…”
On page 21 there is the subsequent entry;
“9. INTANGIBLE FIXED ASSETS
…
Additions 8,663 [£’000]
…”
So, on the face of it, it doesn’t appear that £8.5M could have been included for Averladze.
Apart from the “new management team costs” the cost of 3 player signings was also included in the accounts.
In summer 2001 these included;
Nerlinger, Caniggia, Latapy & Ball for £1.8M, £0.9M, Free & £6.5M = £9.2M.
With Averladze widely reported as costing £2M, this gives a total spend of £11.2M.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_Rangers_F.C._season#In
I’m not sure about the accuracy of these values and timings in accounts – especially the £6.5M for Ball – but it is to illustrate that the total of £8.7M quoted in the accounts seems unlikely to contain £8.5M for Averladze alone.
http://www.isdx.com/infostore/Company-Accounts/RangersFootball/rangers2002.pdf
Allyjambo says:
Member: (901 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 4:23 pm
another ticketus type deal ? ?
===================================================
ticketus type deal = pay day loan.
No wonder Ashley wants to know the terms at the EGM – and why they didn’t go to his mates at Wonga.
y4rmy says:
Member: (49 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 4:46 pm
In the universe of succulent lamb :slamb:
y4rmy says:
Member: (49 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 4:46 pm
Who believes that?
=======================================================================
The whole article has the whiff of Valium for the bears. Usual Forsyth pap.
TBK says:
Member: (127 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 2:16 pm
The rumoured transfer fee for Arveladze mentioned this week by Rob Cohen( ex father in law and agent from Ronald de Boer)mentioning the transfer fee of 12m in the Dutch press was in guilders, he didn’t use the word Euro as mentioned in Herald. The Dutch currency in 2001 at the time of the transfer was the guilder,the Euro was introduced in 2002. The guilder at that time had a value of about half the worth of an Euro nowadays and the exchange rate at that time to the pound was that we had to pay over 3 guilders to get one pound. The estimated transfer fee will probably have been between 3 and 4 million pound but i can’t find an excact sum in Ajax accounts or other football sites from that time
Allyjambo says:
May 14, 2015 at 4:23 pm
andy says:
May 14, 2015
However, it can be disclosed that Rangers were able recently to access sufficient cash – not from, but via, the Three Bears – to bridge the gap until season ticket renewals,
________
another ticketus type deal ? ?
_________________
Another succulent type puff piece 🙄
King and 3 bears = good (tax evasion and lies are good)
Everybody else = bad (not being a Real Rangers Man is bad)
==========================================================
Not sure I’d read it like that AJ.
RF is essentially implying that T3B don’t have the money to fund the on going car crash and have had to borrow, so hardly looks good for the RRM.
Another thought has occurred, could the monies coming ‘via’ T3B have originated from DK, if so why not directly from him (answers on the back of a SARS tax return please ❓ )…again still doesn’t show the RRM in a good light.
parttimearab says:
Member: (323 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 5:15 pm
could the monies coming ‘via’ T3B have originated from DK, if so why not directly from him
========================================================
could be King is threatening SFA that if he doesn’t get F&P he’ll put zero money in and then RIFC goes into admin and they’ll get all the flak – but King needs to back-channel some money in to keep the lights on until the SFA rubber stamp him because there is absolutely no other source.
All total, wild speculation you understand – but who else would make unsecured loans to RIFC if even T3B won’t?
But the SFA must trust that King will do what he says once he has his F&P stamp – oh dear – have they not been paying attention ?
Maybe it *is* secured (on Ibrox?, future ST revenue?): we have no way of knowing. I did wonder why Ashley requested the terms be laid out in his EGM request.
y4rmy says:
Member: (50 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 5:32 pm
Maybe it *is* secured (on Ibrox?, future ST revenue?
===========================================
but why would that security not be available to T3B – this time or last time.
As you say we are guessing – but the scenarios all look a bit didgy.
Who pays the tax on the missing Averladze £6.5 mill 😕
If T3B’s never loaned the cash from their own piggy banks, but were merely guarantors, or whatever?, Its a racing cert the funds are liable to some kind of costs “via” interest or set-up fees, etc.
A number of hacks are commenting that the SFA are waiting on ‘a document’ from King. Presumably someone in the SFA ( 😉 )has given them this update off the record. What is this mystery document and does the entire case hang on it? If so, why has King not produced it and can he produce it at all?
Good Evening
There were a few rumours going round Sevconia this afternoon that Dave King had been ‘approved’ as Fit and Proper by the SFA.
At 7pm this evening, Daryl Broadfoot said that this is not the case…
The wait for a conclusion to this ‘episode’ continues!
Enjoy the rest of the evening!
upthehoops says:
Member: (688 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 7:41 pm
A number of hacks are commenting that the SFA are waiting on ‘a document’ from King. Presumably someone in the SFA ( ? )has given them this update off the record. What is this mystery document and does the entire case hang on it? If so, why has King not produced it and can he produce it at all?
=========================================================
According to (the much maligned 😈 ) Roddy F they’re waiting on documentation from SARS.
This has a ring of truth about it as I recall the EFL had a bit of a wait in getting documentation from the Italian authorities during their FPP spat with Massimo Cellino.
“Telegraph Sport can reveal that the SFA is now in possession of most of the documentation required and that the delay is not because of obstruction by King or the Rangers board – who are understood to have responded to all requests promptly and fully – but because evidence is still awaited from sources in South Africa, including the country’s Revenue Service (SARS).”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11604763/Mike-Ashley-ready-to-fight-on-two-fronts-as-Newcastle-owner-takes-on-Rangers-and-Scottish-Football-Association.html
Ally Jambo
I have no trust in either Regan or Doncaster.
I’ve read how Regan operates on half truths.I don’t mean read about I mean Ive read what he has said in letters.
I’m not talking token FFP I’m talking domestic version of UEFA FFP with a Club Financial Control Board in charge as UEFA have.
It’s not rocket science and it is in the interest of every club to introduce it to protect themselves from financial fools like DK and SDM.
According to my questions to Celtic it is on its way, but the very fact it has not been introduced already tells me that it’s introduction would make the appointment of DK impossible given his views on what basis TRFC need to operate.
parttimearab says:
Member: (324 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 8:07 pm
According to (the much maligned ? ) Roddy F they’re waiting on documentation from SARS.
This has a ring of truth about it as I recall the EFL had a bit of a wait in getting documentation from the Italian authorities during their FPP spat with Massimo Cellino.
=================================================
Cheers. Cellino of course was not found to be F & P.
“Criticism is in the nature of the job,” said Doncaster….I don’t personally feel the need to be praised the whole time and I don’t take the criticism personally.
As long as I do a good job for the clubs – and I believe that I and the team are – that is all that you can do.”
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/spfl-chief-neil-doncaster-no-backroom-deal-to-let-rangers-back-into-206737n.126032526
========================================================
The CEO of the SPFL confirming – IMO – that he doesn’t give a monkey’s about what the fans/customers think – he is only there to do a job for the clubs.
Fairly clear.
upthehoops says:
Member: (689 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 8:36 pm
parttimearab says:
Member: (324 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 8:07 pm
According to (the much maligned ? ) Roddy F they’re waiting on documentation from SARS.
This has a ring of truth about it as I recall the EFL had a bit of a wait in getting documentation from the Italian authorities during their FPP spat with Massimo Cellino.
=================================================
Cheers. Cellino of course was not found to be F & P.
………………………….
Did the EFL not set a ‘timescale’ on his ban and within months, he was able to take up a position on the Leeds board?
jimlarkin says:
Member: (274 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 9:06 pm
upthehoops says:
Member: (689 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 8:36 pm
parttimearab says:
Member: (324 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 8:07 pm
According to (the much maligned ? ) Roddy F they’re waiting on documentation from SARS.
This has a ring of truth about it as I recall the EFL had a bit of a wait in getting documentation from the Italian authorities during their FPP spat with Massimo Cellino.
=================================================
Cheers. Cellino of course was not found to be F & P.
………………………….
Did the EFL not set a ‘timescale’ on his ban and within months, he was able to take up a position on the Leeds board?
==============================
IIRC they did – they had taken into account the rehabilitation of offenders act and the timescale tied into the ‘expiry’ of his offence.
I’ve commented on this before and have suggested that the SFA would/might take the act into account.
I must confess that I’m unsure as to whether the EFL acted under legal advice on this or whether they used the act as a ‘benchmark’ to give the ban a reasonable timescale – no amount of googling has provided an answer, a shame as it might have given a pointer to the SFA’s likely course of action.
Re the 2002 accounts – The net cost of player trading is reported as £12.8M
According to Wiki, the cost of purchases was £11.2M (including £6.5M for M.Ball and £2M for Arveladze)
However the income from transfers is reported as £21.575M (including £3M for Albertz, £8.5M for Van Bronckhorst, £1.3M for Tugay, £4M for Reyna and £3M for Miller).
I know that there will have been staged payments at play (possibly from both the accounting year and previous years, but the headline PROFIT from player trading (based on Wiki figures) was of the order of £10.375M.
To then report a LOSS on player trading of £12.8M means a £23M reversal. Are the Wiki figures that inaccurate?
The reported £8.5M paid for Arveladze would suggest that there were hidden costs involved beyond the headline figures reported by the SMSM. Where the £23M went is anyone’s guess.
rabtdog says:
Member: (50 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 10:08 am
==================================
The answers you get from polls depend also on how the questions are framed and even on the responder’s interpretation of the questions. For instance some folk might think that though technically a new club in practice (how they are treated etc.) they are they same club – and there could be other interpretations too.
I was born in Glasgow but live 12,000 miles from Scotland in New Zealand so how do I get information about Scottish football in which I am still obsessed?
If I read online newspapers or listen to online Radio Clyde I would be led to believe that all was rosy.
When did a Scotland team last qualify for a World Cup, not this century.
Why is the Scotland co-efficient so low thus making it harder for our teams to progress in Europe?
Why does the Scottish FA get a miniscule fraction of the TV broadcasting deal in England?
Will Scottish clubs simply become feeder clubs for the likes of QPR, Burley, and Bournemouth all of which are better funded than Scots clubs?
Does anyone believe that Scottish Football administrators are fit for purpose?
Will Scottish football be stronger in 2020 than now?
Will the SFM morph from a bunch of laptop opinionists to something far more substantial that CAN BRING ABOUT NEEDED CHANGE?
SFM writers and posters do not want the status quo. Therefore the focus should be on what will bring about significant reform. A subscription service is a means to an end but what is the desired end point.
that has to be articulated and defined in Specific Measurable Achievable, Realistic and Timely (SMART) ways.
A subscription could result in just better technology laptop self congratulations or could be the impetus for real and lasting reform.
The big picture is Scottish football and not an obsession with poking a dying corpse in Govan and whatever reincarnation emerges.
Scotland is rated 23 in Europe. Cyprus is rated 18.
We have to set a target and then arrange Scottish football to achieve that target.
For instance say we set a target of Scotland rising from position 23 to position 12. That would mean leapfrogging over Belarus, Poland Croatia Denmark Cyprus Israel Romaina Czech , Austria Switzerland , Greece.
Position 15 gets us two teams in the Champions League.
For what its worth I live in a country that has 1 professional football team. That’s right just 1. It plays in the Australian league. In the world Cup in South Africa the only unbeaten team was New Zealand. Fact!
The SPFL has an astonishing 42 member clubs. the only reason for this is history -the past. Fottball will always be about the future. The next games and seasons.
How about a radical concept
How about reducing the SPFL to just 12 professional teams and 30 amateur teams?
Would such a concept increase the chance of raising the co-efficient?
Let’s see the business model.
I am also a fan of safe standing areas, alcohol being sold to adults as elsewhere in the world and reasonably priced tickets with minimal charge for children. I was lifted over turnstiles and became a regular attendee. Those days are long gone but I would be supportive of a token say 1 pound entry for children. I would also ban and eject any patrons who choose to sing proscribed sectarian songs.
I wish the SFM well with whatever you choose to do but if it be done then best it be done well.
y4rmy says:
Member: (50 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 4:46 pm
==================================
Well it was Roddy Forsyth.
Hi, very rare poster and to be fair follow the blog less now too. I am interested in the next steps idea though.
I think you guys are missing a big trick in terms of the “next step” as i think you already took the step then stopped. Im referring to using podcast as a way to get your message out there.
I am not sure if there is a specific reason that podcasts were given a 3 show trial and then stopped? This may have been discussed and i missed it? So apologies if this is the case but if not, i just dont get it. I thought the 3 podcasts were excellent but you can do much more with the format. Some random ideas:
1: a weekly/fortnightly /monthly podcast on the main talking points on the blog over that time period. 3 of the main contributors giving their highlights. State aid – Doncaster – referee’s – Whatever – a recap – a my favorite post – craziest thing posted by SoS or FF.
2. Has anyone listened to Serial? A podcast looking at the circumstances a murder 15 yrs ago in Baltimore? A very sad and serious tale, however the genius is in the format. A week to week view of different elements of the case. For and against, lies and truth and everything in between. One thing that strikes me about it is that what seemed so important 15 yrs ago holds less relevance when new facts are disclosed as time goes on.
The relevance to SFM here is i think a forensic look at what happened and exactly when would be a massive refresh for us all.
Not sure its episode 1 or 50 but here is something that always bugged me.
“Campbell Ogilvie’s EBT would just about pay for a good night out”
A very famous (infamous) quote. But what was the context at the time?
My Memory: In the week leading up to this, RTC was either revealing or hinting at certain people in the game having EBT’s. Chick went on bbc unprepared for the question and issued a denial on behalf of the great administrator. The next night after being told off (presumably) he said his understanding was that there was one, but only enough to pay a good night out. RTC says that night it was £90k and eventually confirmed by CO. I think i remember a gleeful tweet from RTC – Good night eh?
I am 99% sure it didnt happen this way, but its how i remember it if that makes sense? What i am convinced of is that there was a game being played. MSM VS New MEdia VS SFA.
Was RTC baiting the SFA daring them to deny it? Did CO play a bluff, hoping RTC had nothing , by getting Chick to deny it for him only to come clean when it was clear the info was out there? Was chick aware he was a patsy?
Anyway, you get the drift. I think if we looked back at the sport sound tapes for the week before – the RTC blog and the MSM reporting we would get a much better overall picture now than we would have back then especially when my memory will also contain a certain bias!
Two or three of the big guns(in terms of posters) reviewing the material and talking it through for an hour would be podcast (and long drive to work) heaven.
What did we know – When did we know it – is it important knowing what we know now?
In summary, the next step should be one step back to podcasting.
A personal view
When I started taking a serious interest in football , Celtic were masters of the Universe. Lisbon was current , Scotland had a great international team and the only publicised bad guy was the owner of Third Lanark , who reputedly had to raid the puggy machine to pay the players .
Rangers had a disgusting employment policy , but they had some wonderful players and always had good teams . They also had responsible fiscal management . Hibs were as good in the early 70’s as Aberdeen were under Fergie . Their problem was that Jock Stein had everyone’s number. In some ways the late 60’s and early 70’s were the salad days for football in Scotland.
All Administrators and referees supported Rangers , except they didn’t . A couple of unprofessional individuals created problems for everyone who has followed by being unable to operate honestly . It’s unfair to everyone who has followed Farry to tar them with the same brush. Not everyone who has played left back for Aberdeen since big Doug Rougvie is a Hells Angel in a red top . Equally not every administrator is a Farry , a Dallas or a Peat.
However , and there is always a however in Scottish football , the events of the last 3 years are about to have the icing applied to a very questionable cake. Should reports that King has been approved be correct then we are in a lawless place , where rules and guidelines don’t apply , if you have enough media and PR clout.
David Murray was the biggest cheat the game in Scotland has ever seen . He has never been taken to task by the authorities , for reasons that smack of cowardice and self interest. To hand a certificate of approval to the criminal who sat on his board ( and was condemned by independent investigation ) whilst all of this cheating took place , at the same time as this crook was lying and deceiving the tax payers of his adopted country , is beyond unacceptable.
The SFA are insulting every single football fan in Scotland, including Rangers fans, if they approve King. The message is clear . You can cheat and indulge in criminal activity if you want to control Rangers. Let’s be clear here , the succession at Rangers has gone from cheat to crook to chancer to criminal.
Rangers fans don’t deserve that . The SFA has done nothing , absolutely zero , to protect them , their club or the game . Thanks to SFA and SPL cowardice this is no longer the game I was introduced to .
This week in the NFL , the games biggest player and arguably biggest club were hammered for an act of rule breaking viewed by many as relatively minor. There is your benchmark right there . Regan and Doncaster aspire to have a top class respected product.
Here’s a message . Stop running the game like street corner boys and man up and act professionally and do the right thing. Given this latest reported decision , resigning would 100% be the right thing to do. Go and go now before you do any more damage
Good Evening (again!)
I caught up with Roddy Forsyth’s piece on Ashley, King and Sevco earlier this evening. I had missed it earlier today so was grateful to posters on TSFM for discussing it!
It’s quite an interesting piece. Particularly on Ashley appealing the £7,500 ‘dual ownership’ fine. There is also a bit of an attempt to portray the ‘new’ Sevco regime as having some sort of plan/foresight.
If you have a spare few minutes, I have written a short piece on it, which you may wish to scoff at!
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/05/14/fan-boy-flatulence-masquerading-as-journalism-not-from-the-telegraph/
Enjoy what is left of the day!
I am lost as to why the administrators need anything from SARS because all of the King case is available on the Internet. Of course being a cynic I wonder which question they posed to get the answer they want? They can ask what the result of the judgement was and be told 42mil or 84 years in prison or ask if it is still OK for DCK to be a Director in RSA and get a yes which they will approve – probably because it is also ok for the (sic) administrators to be on the 6th floor at Hampden. In their rule book two wrongs are just ok as they can use discretion.
So let’s see what gems they come up with and also if DCK does jet in with cash beyond the SARS radar?
And please SFM can you put my correct avatar back please. Can’t face the face you first gave me. Thanks
mooby says:
Member: (3 comments)
May 14, 2015 at 11:03 pm
————
Excellent idea with an ‘SFM Summary’ or ‘SFM Catch-up’ podcast. It does demands a big commitment from those running any podcast, though. Content wise it’s probaby easier to summarize blog activity now than it’s been for a while in that the frantic pace of posting has subsided, and posters with ‘numerous and lengthy’ pieces have taken their content to a separate blog or moved on to pastures new.
…and in other news Martin Williams of the Herald keeps up his contribution to the cause. I won’t post the whole article as the Herald is a pay site but basically the scenario yet again is:
1. Someone makes a complaint to an authority, in this case the ASA.
2. The authority looks into the complaint.
3. Media coverage way beyond what is relevant is given, presumably because it’s anti Mike Ashley.
Pathetic doesn’t even begin to describe it.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/regulators-probe-claims-of-misleading-sports-direct-pricing-of-rangers-shirts.126144917
Keith Jackson is Chic Young wi a laptop.
mcfc
May 14 2015 at 11:45am.
The SFA seem to be in the tiny minority who think the current situation is recoverable – with Old Firm, two club dominance restorable in the next few years. Are the SFA:
a) utterly deluded,
b) lacking any creative thinking for the alternatives,
c) relying on King promises to deliver the moon
d) frozen in the headlights waiting to be road kill.
………………..
All of the above.
Barcabhoy
May 14 2015 at 11:19
Barcabhoy. Nailed it.
I was a couple of sentences into my comment this morning before it noticed my avatar.Cue Homer Simpson shriek.Can I have my new one back please?