I think there has been an appreciable shift of opinion amongst fans of TRFC recently.
Unlike the ‘invest: speculate to accumulate’ rhetoric featured in the press and by ex-players, the ordinary fans are coming to the realisation that there is no quick fix. There are even murmurings that there may never be a fix which involves their club becoming a competitive force.
Poor management of fan expectations has long been an accusation levelled at the TRFC board by SFM. It is possible though that many fans are beginning to manage their own expectations rather better. There are certainly justifiable criticisms of the manager, Mark Warburton, but alongside that is a realism about the limitations and constraints that he is working under.
There is a rather misguided, and possibly not accurate assumption that another liquidation for a team out of Ibrox would result in having to start ‘yet again’ in the bottom division; but in fact there is a growing acceptance that consolidation in the top league is a much better solution than gambling on huge borrowing simply to stop Celtic adding more notches to the goalpost.
Could it be that the fans are about to do the job that the board haven’t had the balls to do –accept the gap between themselves and (at least) Celtic, and settle for mediocrity on the field as a short term price to pay for continuity?
During the 1990s, in the middle of the Murray/BoS fuelled spending spree, and with Celtic in the doldrums, it seemed to many Celtic fans that their club would never be able to bridge that gap. Of course they did, but at the emotional cost of losing the exclusive 9IAR record.
TRFC now find themselves in pretty much the same position, but their road to bridging the current gap is a more difficult one.
There are similarities of course. Like the Celtic of the 90s, Rangers have major infrastructure challenges to meet. Celtic had a stadium to build, Rangers have Ibrox (and Auchenhowie) to fix and improve. Both required massive investment to improve the team, although I would argue that Rangers have a steeper hill to climb in that area.
Unlike RFC of the 90s, Celtic’s accrued wealth has nothing to do with an intravenous hook-up between their bank account and the chairman’s pals at the bank. Their baseline advantage over the current Rangers predicament is a combination of a stadium which holds 10,000 more fans than Ibrox, no debt, a burgeoning cash balance and the current inflow of European cash.
The Euro cash and the cash balance could be depleted, but the 10,000 extra seats won’t.
It also seems difficult to imagine how TRFC can obtain seed capital – even if they were inclined to gamble – given the combination of barriers to achieving that;
- They have a PLC with no stock market listing
- They have NO executive directors on the PLC board
- The current chairman is a convicted criminal, convicted of offences involving money
- The current chairman and vice-chairman are both directors of a previously liquidated club, and therefore associated with the financial mismanagement which brought that about.
- In that climate, sponsorship deals are hard to come by. Major sponsors want to be associated with stability, success and integrity. TRFC don’t tick many boxes in that regard.
- Banks do not lend to football clubs. Pre Murray/Masterton, football clubs were cash businesses with modest overdraft facilities to cover modest cash-flow peaks and troughs. The banks have returned to that model. 1987-2007 was the exception, not the norm.
- They are at war with a powerful and substantial shareholder in Mike Ashley.
- There is still litigation pending on more than one front which could even call into question the ownership of the club’s assets.
- They are in debt already (estimated at around £15m).
- The current onfield situation may require yet another write-off in terms of contracts.
Any one of those bullet points could be enough to derail any plan to get to the top. In combination, there may even be an existential question to answer.
That is why the fans are starting to look a lot smarter than the board, and ultimately the good sense of the fans may well help the board to find a way out of their current dilemma.
But even with realistic expectations from the supporters, is it possible that they can find a way? Is there for instance someone with a magic wand or bag of cash who could come in and turn it around? Perhaps, but who would risk money on a precarious venture like a football club when one of the most powerful businessmen in the country is in dispute with you?
In order for serious inward investment to happen;
- Ashley has to be reconciled with the board (needs King and Murray to go).
- The debt has to be written off .
- The new investor(s) has to be given control of the club (and this would perhaps require another 75% special resolution where current shareholders would be asked to vote to dilute their own influence).
- If they achieved that (and it is a pretty big if) the new investor cash would go into the club’s bank account – not used to pay off the debt – and they would be free to pursue new and better sponsorship deals, improve the merchandising contract with an onside Ashley, and add new revenue streams.
Even then, any new board would need to see the infrastructure challenges as paramount. Having one eye squinting in the direction of Parkhead will blur the bigger picture.
Their priority should be to reduce the losses (whilst increasing wages for better players), fix the stadium and the training ground (both in need of repair and improvement), build a scouting and youth infrastructure, and free up a (relatively modest) wad of cash to improve the playing squad.
In defence of the current board, the challenges facing them are almost vertical in incline. No matter how skilful they are, nothing other than someone with a barrowload of cash and a very long term outlook can put any kind of fix in place.
£50m might buy the debt and equity, and repair the stadium, but progress requires on-field improvement. It also needs stability, and therefore Ashley’s cooperation. The price of that is the head of Dave King.
Rangers will bring in more at the gate than Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs, but they have a considerably higher cost base than those clubs. With better players, recurring costs will be even higher – much higher.
To square this circle, however unpalatable it appears to be, peace has to be made with Ashley. That is the key to being able to embark upon a journey that has any chance of success. Otherwise, the clocks will have to be reset to 2022, and the end of the SD contract, before progress can be made.
However there is no chance it can go on that long. Rangers fans may be increasingly less demanding in what they expect, but they will need to see some signs – and not just words – that a plan is in place.
The board are getting ready to throw Mark Warburton to the hounds (the MSM lapdogs have already been armed with poison pens to effect that). This will buy them some time, but not enough.
We’ve said it before, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll say it again;
For Rangers to have a fighting chance of competing at the top of football, King needs to be gone. If he does go, half of the barriers preventing the club raising cash are dismantled.
So is King’s departure a price worth paying? If he really had Rangers in his heart, he would say ‘Yes’.
BIG PINKFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 07:40
Thanks for posting this BP.
I was really sorry to hear of Roger’s passing and my thought are with his family and friends at their loss.
However I did smile when I thought back to the only time I saw the big man play. It was in a reserve match in the mid 60’s at Fir Park when I would have been in my early teens with all spectators in the main stand. The ball broke out of the Motherwell defence to Roger who was about 35 yds out and a Rangers supporter behind us shouted he can hit them” the big man blasted the ball it flew wide hit the unoccupied terracing and rebounded right back up the park finishing around the half way line. Everyone was laughing, as the old guy exclaimed “telt yees!”
Never to this day seen a ball hit so hard and that memory has always lived with me.
Another aspect of that game was the number of extremely talented Scottish players who were in the Motherwell side that day, Charlie Aitken, Joe McBride and Willie Hunter all featured.
Re all the talk of admin etc:
I think that there’s a real RIFC boardroom struggle going on at the moment. I’d expect that the Warburton/Weir time-lag resignation/sacking was exactly down to this.
One faction (Rex & his vicar) wanting them gone immediately & T3Bs wanting a more cautionary approach. Rex set the vicar’s hair on fire late on the Friday & pre-empted any (in)action by T3Bs. A diversionary tactic, or show of strength, if you wish, to prevent scrutiny of other problems for a week or so.
T3Bs have really put themselves in an invidious position: suck up what’s going on & input more cash or walk away (ha!) & say goodbye to their mulyins. What to do, what to do?
I believe Uncle Mick will be into Sevco for something in the region of £5m if his litigation is successful, If administration is being planned, and he is successful in court, this figure would have a bearing on the amount of unpaid debt that needs to be run up. As a creditor he would have a vote on whether to accept a CVA.
I think the “known” debts at the moment are around £16m to RIFC PLC. Warbo’s constructive dismissal could add another £2m, and Works 802 around £400K. i doubt a crook like King would leave it at that, and his phasers will be set at maximum shaft, with day to day goods and service providers adding to the total.
A question. Is it 25% of the Debt Uncle Mick would need to affect a CVA vote?
If so, then his £5m is covered to a debt level of £20m.
Warbs “irregular” sacking, may have been quite a clever stroke, allowing them to increase the debt level, thus dismissing his effectiveness, without actually having to pony up any of the money themselves via loans
Just a thought.
Jingso.Jimsie February 20, 2017 at 11:49
I think that there’s a real RIFC boardroom struggle going on at the moment.
—————————————————————
All of PMG’s latest indicate his sources are telling him exactly this. Worse, that it is the 3 Bears stumping up the money to keep the show on the road whilst the Shadow Director and his cronies drop them in it with issues like the phantom resignations.
This might be the real genius of DCK. Getting people like the 3 bears on the hook for what to them are not inconsiderable amounts of money. With the show struggling to stay on the road they then have only two choices, keep doubling down by digging into their pockets or walk away and lose nearly everything they have already put in.
easyJamboFebruary 20, 2017 at 11:07
”…….
The case was originally heard at Glasgow Sheriff Court. I’ve had a look at the GSC Rolls but I can’t see it there, or in the CoS Rolls either.
That doesn’t mean it’s not happening, this week. It just means I can’t find it.’
_______
Me neither, eJ.
The sheriff who issued on 31/12/15 the warrant to ‘ring-fence’ lifted it on 1/01/17, after hearing about guys with deep pockets who love the club and are ready to lend it money as and when, and, sure, weren’t they just after re-payinsix and a half million loan?
Now, the ( new) ‘Sheriff Appeal Court-Civil’ began life on 01/01/17. So presumably,if 802Ltd appealed that sheriff’s decision, it would be the new Court that would hear it.
But although the judgments that Court has made since its inception are listed here https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/sheriff-appeal-court—civil
Like you, I can’t find any sort of ‘rolls of Court’ pages, showing upcoming appeals to that court for any forward period.
I assume there must be such a page- but where is it?
I have fired off a wee email to SAC.civil@scotcourts.gov.uk to ask!
Here is the link:
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/current-business/civil-appeals/sheriff-appeal-court
But I can’t see anything coming up..
From TRFC website – wishful thinking ?
After the break however Rangers showed their battling qualities with Joe Garner equalising on 62 minutes with a terrific shot from distance, Kenny Miller hitting the post and sub Harry Forrester missing a sitter he will surely have nightmares about tonight.
I thought the scoring went 1-0 : 2-0 : 2-1 ?
TRIFC/TRFC is now very clearly a distressed company that is very badly managed and running on fumes. That much is not idle speculation but established in the public realm. Just look at their accounts and the legal actions piling up.
Whilst t’internet provides the means for TSFM, Clumps, PMG and others to make the case for holding the footballing authorities and MSM to account for their misdemeanours and misrepresentations it is worth remembering that on Twitter and other social media there is an awful lot of mince floating about in respect of all things Rangers.
With TRIFC/TRFC in its current state there will be many who claim some sort of “insider information” when all they are likely doing is regurgitating something that is little more than pub chat. Who can forget John James and “Watergate” from only the past few months?
What TSFM does best is try to pick its way through everything in the non mainstream and mainstream media. To read between the lines with some critical thinking.
I think the next few weeks will see t’internet explode with wild speculation but for me (whilst nobody is right all the time) I will look to the likes of PMG and BP working their contacts for a more measured analysis of what is happening down Govan way.
Rumours abound that Morton have not been paid their share from the cup tie if true then it is time this lot of shysters were brought to heel and shut down for good.
Can someone confirm the date a European licence must be granted for next season?
Paulmac2 February 20, 2017 at 15:09
Can someone confirm the date a European licence must be granted for next season?
==========================
Auldheid is your man for all things UEFA, but I’m pretty sure that the first compliance point is 31 March 2017. So any club wishing to participate in next season’s UEFA tournaments must have provided the SFA with assurances as to their compliance with UEFA requirements re FFP, accounts, going concern, ground etc., by that date.
Then the SFA will rubber stamp it, without any checks, (or that’s the way I believe it works) 🙁
SMSM take note .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-39004434
PAULMAC2FEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 15:09
See below, formatting is a bit messy – full document is here: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/2015/Scottish-FA-Club-Licensing-Manual-2017.pdf
John James claiming that rangers are “5 days overdue” in paying Morton 150K from last weeks cup tie.
I’ve no idea what the rules are in regards to timescales for the home club to pay the visiting club their cut of the gate but I highly doubt that its within 48 hours.
Morton might very well still be awaiting their money but I find the “5 days overdue” part very hard to believe. Does anyone know what the rules are in regards to paying the away team their cut of the gate? I’d have thought 7-10 days would have been a reasonable timeframe.
CHARLIE_KELLY
If it was all ticket game then money has been in bank for weeks
It wasn’t an all-ticket game.
Buried in page 211 of the SFA Handbook, in the Cup Competition Rules section, the wording is ‘The share of the receipts, or the guarantee*, shall be paid, in cash, on the day of the match, unless any agreement is made to the contrary.’
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/SFAHandbook/12%20CupCompRules.pdf
*The guarantee is £400.
JINGSO.JIMSIE
cheers,wasn’t sure,i still think it should have been paid sooner(if it’s not already)if we turn the tables i’m sure TRFC would be chapping doors
The relevant rule regarding payment by the home club to the away club is 41 (e) ,to be found in the SFA Handbook-
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2016-17/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook%202016-17.pdf
The match took place on Sunday 12 February, so payment was due by close of business on Friday 17th, as I would interpret that clause, or giving them 5 clear working days, Morton should receive their cash by 5pm today.
Jingso.JimsieFebruary 20, 2017 at 15:56 1 Vote
It wasn’t an all-ticket game.
Buried in page 211 of the SFA Handbook, in the Cup Competition Rules section, the wording is ‘The share of the receipts, or the guarantee*, shall be paid, in cash, on the day of the match, unless any agreement is made to the contrary.’ http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/SFAHandbook/12%20CupCompRules.pdf
++++++++++++++++++++
Jingso, those are the rules for the Scottish Challenge Cup.
@ Neepheid:
You are correct. Apologies for my misleading post.
JINGSO.JIMSIE
bang out of order,i think you should buy us all a pint
Have ordered the virtual equivalent of 20 lager, 20 heavy & 8 Guinness to be behind the bar at the virtual Loudon.
Just ask for a pint on my slate from Boaby the Barman
JINGSO.JIMSIEFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 16:47
Have ordered the virtual equivalent of 20 lager, 20 heavy & 8 Guinness to be behind the bar at the virtual Loudon.
Just ask for a pint on my slate from Boaby the Barman
——————————————————————————————————————-
I’m barred Jingo………..Too handsome.
Anyway, Keevins is tweeting that he has phoned Morton, and the JJ story is not true.
CORRUPT OFFICIAL
snap
NEEPHEID
debate over,the truthmeister has spoken,forgive if i wait a while
just in
Greenock Morton @Morton_FC
8m
We would like to clarify that contrary to rumours circulating, all monies due from Rangers from our Scottish Cup tie have been received.
Charlie_KellyFebruary 20, 2017 at 15:41
……………………
I would suggest any club at this point in time ask for advanced payment of any ticket allocation request..
bluFebruary 20, 2017 at 15:41
………………
Thanks Blu…
Now might be a good time for a proper journalist to contact the SFA on this matter….
Corrupt official
February 20, 2017 at 16:55
……………………
Me too…apparently I have opposable thumbs…
tonyFebruary 20, 2017 at 16:02
………………….
Chapping doors…
Think early payment and discounts for ticket allocation…and you will be nearer the mark!
easyJamboFebruary 20, 2017 at 15:26
…………………………
You just never know easy…as I say now might be a good time for a decent journalist to do a bit of digging!
With Morton confirming that payment has been made today, it exposes one of the vagaries of the “Fitba debts” outside of the administration process.
As they are not expunged, or negotiable for a reduced return, it doesn’t make sense to amass fitba debts, as any hope of gaining a membership is dependent on settlement of these debts.
If any insolvency events were on the horizon, it would make far more sense, from a crookedy business man point of view, to not pay someone else instead………Like a manager or something.
ps…..Being virtually handsome is great. Far better than a virtual beer.
From Saturday’s Guardian – just got round to reading it . Quite a long read but a good ‘un .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/feb/18/want-to-care-like-they-care-learn-to-love-football#comment-93416749
CORRUPT OFFICIALFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 17:49
As they are not expunged, or negotiable for a reduced return, it doesn’t make sense to amass fitba debts, as any hope of gaining a membership is dependent on settlement of these debts.
——————
Would the three ex employees who have not been paid be a football debt? and if it is and this debt is not settled before any such dates. from the fine post by BLUFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 15:41.
giving key dates.
Would trfc not be granted a uefa licence if the three ex employees have not been paid?
and if they make uefa qualification in the first place
John James has now exclusively added an addendum to his earlier nonsense.
Or was that his “right hand man” who exclusively tried to save face for him.
Folks,
We’ve already had one ridiculous kite shot out of the sky today, and we now have people on here speaking about unpaid employees as if it is a fact.
There has never been any serious suggestion based on facts that employees or football clubs have not been paid by Rangers, and repeating such nonsense on here as fact only serves to undermine those actually trying to get at the truth.
Of course things like non-payment wages happen in reality, but they tend not to be the kinds of thing people would be discreet about.
Focus on the story – not the squirrels.
Surely it would be the case that any monies owed to the ex management team including any bonus from last season that may still be outstanding would be classed as football debts.
CLUSTER ONEFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 18:53
CORRUPT OFFICIALFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 17:49As they are not expunged, or negotiable for a reduced return, it doesn’t make sense to amass fitba debts, as any hope of gaining a membership is dependent on settlement of these debts.——————Would the three ex employees who have not been paid be a football debt? and if it is and this debt is not settled before any such dates. from the fine post by BLUFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 15:41.giving key dates.Would trfc not be granted a uefa licence if the three ex employees have not been paid?and if they make uefa qualification in the first place
————————————————————————————————————————————-
I doubt they could be considered unpaid employees at this stage as their contract was terminated. They are no longer employees in that sense. However, they are in dispute over the termination, and I believe it would be the outcome of that (in an administration event) that would take precedent, probably, if successful, becoming creditors. As the outcome would be court-dependent, easily argued that it has not crystalised. (A wee fav of the old club)
I may be wrong, but my reading is they are no longer employees, but disgruntled ex-employees, and I believe they were paid pro rata up until Friday.
BIG PINK
FEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 19:29
====================================
One sometimes wonders if the people who put out these unsubstantiated stories are actually achieving a couple of things.
1, Distracting posters and getting them to talk about nonsense rather than reality.
2, Destroying any credibility they may have built up, being able to point at them and laugh whenever they do actually have a good point.
Club1872 has spoken.
————————–
In short, “We have spoken to the club’s Chief Exec. He has listened. All is good. WATP”
BIG PINKFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 19:29
and we now have people on here speaking about unpaid employees as if it is a fact.
———————–
If that post was directed at me? i was trying to ask maybe the employees were not paid what they are due and could it be classed as a football debt.
CORRUPT OFFICIALFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 19:35
has explained better to me what i was trying to ask.I doubt they could be considered unpaid employees at this stage as their contract was terminated.
I doubt they could be considered unpaid employees at this stage as their contract was terminated. They are no longer employees in that sense. However, they are in dispute over the termination, and I believe it would be the outcome of that (in an administration event) that would take precedent, probably, if successful, becoming creditors. As the outcome would be court-dependent, easily argued that it has not crystalised. (A wee fav of the old club) I may be wrong, but my reading is they are no longer employees, but disgruntled ex-employees, and I believe they were paid pro rata up until Friday.
As always put down in a way i wanted to and much better than i could have.
I hear from an absolutely reliable source that a well-known sporting organisation is several months behind on a smallish monthly invoice. It’s not the first time, though.
Phil mac latest http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sevco-looks-into-the-abyss/
Just stating the obvious,
Trfc 2012 are a loss making co. with no available overdraft.
No ifs, no buts, no doubts.
They will be no loss to Scottish football.
I suppose a convenient trigger for administration could be a threatened, HMRC winding up petition?
(Can’t remember now if a petition was lodged against RFC, or if Craigy Bhoy himself initiated court involvement.)
Again, as HMRC declines to publicly comment on individual, delinquent tax payers, King and Level42 are free to spin their own version of the truth via the SMSM unchallenged.
…like HMRC were reportedly going to support a CVA for Rangers…
And it could all be HMRC’s fault, a conspiracy, etc. against the Ibrox club.
Club 1872 statement seems to be verbose gibberish…
One senses that the gyre is turni.
easyJamboFebruary 20, 2017 at 20:01
Club1872 has spoken…
_______
At least they’re not blaming anyone else, this time, for whatever it was they were talking about! I suppose, as things stand for TRFC supporters, no news is good news, even if it’s reporting no news about things that might be bad news!
It’s good to read that Morton have been paid, though I do wonder if anyone within Scottish football, and particularly at the game’s HQ, are asking why there should be rumours that they’ve not been paid, so strong, in fact, that Morton felt they had to refute them! Remember when it was the norm for such rumours to go unheeded? Even the staunchest of the staunch of the SMSM appear to be awakened from their slumbers for long enough to ask the relevant question!
Big PinkFebruary 20, 2017 at 19:29 We’ve already had one ridiculous kite shot out of the sky today, and we now have people on here speaking about unpaid employees as if it is a fact.There has never been any serious suggestion based on facts that employees or football clubs have not been paid by Rangers, and repeating such nonsense on here as fact only serves to undermine those actually trying to get at the truth.Of course things like non-payment wages happen in reality, but they tend not to be the kinds of thing people would be discreet about.Focus on the story – not the squirrels
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Very measured post BP. Please include PMG in your plea. Most of his “developing stories” have gone nowhere? (a wee example is where DD was going rip PL a new one about his res 12 action/inaction). There are many more!
ALLYJAMBOFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 21:06
“It’s good to read that Morton have been paid, though I do wonder if anyone within Scottish football, and particularly at the game’s HQ, are asking why there should be rumours that they’ve not been paid, so strong, in fact, that Morton felt they had to refute them!”
———————————————————————————————————————————
Ally the rumours were not without substance as payment wasn’t made until today.
https://twitter.com/shinjukushug/status/833726736013619201
STEVIEBC
FEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 20:37
=================================
As I recall.
Craig Whyte stood on the steps of Ibrox and said he may have to put the company into administration within the next couple of weeks.
HMRC responded by going to the Court of Session, from memory to petition for winding up.
Craig Whyte stated to the CoS that he wanted to put the company into administration but he wanted to appoint the administrator.
HMRC agreed to this, so long as it happened that day. They agreed to withdraw the winding up petition on that basis.
The administrator was appointed, with HMRC knowing there would never be a CVA anyway.
As Charles Green said (months later) why did they not just tell us that at the time.
If HMRC are owed money by TRFC they will take action to secure it, including but not limited to petitioning to wind up the company*. If they have sufficient debt they will block any CVA. This simply their current policy where football clubs are concerned. It won’t change so long as football treats its own creditors as being more important than everyone else, including honest taxpayers.
*You wind up a business because it can’t pay it’s debt, not because it won’t.
Corrupt official
I hope we are not holding Shug up as the new gold standard for veracity.
BIG PINK
FEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 21:37
====================================
I was more thinking verisimilitude.
Corrupt officialFebruary 20, 2017 at 21:20
ALLYJAMBOFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 21:06 “It’s good to read that Morton have been paid, though I do wonder if anyone within Scottish football, and particularly at the game’s HQ, are asking why there should be rumours that they’ve not been paid, so strong, in fact, that Morton felt they had to refute them!” ——————————————————————————————————————————— Ally the rumours were not without substance as payment wasn’t made until today.
https://twitter.com/shinjukushug/status/833726736013619201
_______________
No doubt that’s the last word from anyone connected with the SMSM (connected as in once one of their number) on the matter.
BIG PINKFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 21:37
Corrupt official
I hope we are not holding Shug up as the new gold standard for veracity.
———————————————————————————————–
Not at all BP, I don’t rate him as the brightest spanner in the tool-box, but in his attempts to discredit the rumour, he actually confirmed it to be true….They hadn’t been paid until today.
Corrupt officialFebruary 20, 2017 at 21:57
BIG PINKFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 21:37Corrupt officialI hope we are not holding Shug up as the new gold standard for veracity. ———————————————————————————————– Not at all BP, I don’t rate him as the brightest spanner in the tool-box, but in his attempts to discredit the rumour, he actually confirmed it to be true….They hadn’t been paid until today.
————————————————————————————
Were they overdue at all? Or is that the standard? notice my earlier post about PMG’s “developing stories” has not been well received but tell me one recently that has “developed”?
CORRUPT OFFICIAL
I don’t think BP was talking about keevins I believe it was myself he was having a dig at and by the way I’m bright enough.
BORDERSDON
FEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 22:29
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How has it not been well received, of the people who have chosen to “vote” the average rating is “great”.
Obviously I have no idea how many read it and chose not to do anything.
SHUG
FEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 22:34
==================================
I took it to be Shug Keevins he was referring to. (Sorry for ending a sentence with a preposition but “… to whom he was referring” just sounds a bit arsey)
Anyway it’s a bit of an “in thing” on Super Score Board, callers refer to him as Shug, and he seems to think it overly familiar. Though I think he does play to it a bit.
SHUGFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 22:34
CORRUPT OFFICIALI don’t think BP was talking about keevins I believe it was myself he was having a dig at and by the way I’m bright enough
————————————————————————————————————————–
I’m sure you are bright enough Shug, but we were both talking about Keevins.
Is it worth pointing out that the Club 1872 Statement On Members Concerns today doesn’t actually say anything and isn’t actually from Club 1872?
The statement, sorry, Statement is “Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.”
In the topsy turvy world down Sevcoway a number of fans groups mind melded and on 21st October 2016 a working group of what can fairly be described as Kingalings ( Graham, C? Present. Houston, C? Present…) had a handover meeting.
Club 1872, which presumably is one of those ethereal, perpetual thingies, comprises or is comprised of four companies. Yes, four. Count ’em and weep.
Rangers First 2014 CIC will be responsible for buying shares.
(This entity’s name was changed to Club 1872 Shares CIC at the handover meeting.)
Club 1872 Projects CIC will fund projects.
Club 1872 Ltd deals with admin (sic) and marketing.
Supporters Voice Ltd (sic) exists to issue statements only.
If Club 1872 requires a company whose only raison d’etre is to issue statements and this reasoning is followed to its logical conclusion shouldn’t Supporters Voice Ltd (or Limited) have a separate company in case it ever requires to issue a statement? And shouldn’t that company have a separate company in case…?
Great fleas have little fleas upon their back to bite ’em
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so, ad infinitum.
LUGOSIFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 23:15
Is it worth pointing out that the Club 1872 Statement On Members Concerns today doesn’t actually say anything and isn’t actually from Club 1872?The statement, sorry, Statement is “Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.”In the topsy turvy world down Sevcoway a number of fans groups mind melded and on 21st October 2016 a working group of what can fairly be described as Kingalings ( Graham, C? Present. Houston, C? Present…) had a handover meeting.
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I also thought the setting up of these four companies was very strange considering they were CIC which are usually non-profit making and why multiply the hassle and paperwork involved in running a company by 4.
Maybe it also multiplies by 4 the amount of smoke and mirrors and possibly expenses and perks to be claimed from the same gullible folk?
GERRYBHOY67 FEBRUARY 20, 2017
“Smoke and mirrors”?
“Expenses and perks”?
Heaven Forfend!
What is this sorcery of which you speak?
Know ye not that Mr Struth had no truck with smoke and mirrors? Nor hanky-panky or jiggery-pokery?
And what need hath ye of expenses and perks when Mr Struth had the foresight to leave as a legacy the Blazer Mines and the Brown Brogues Quarry?
Doubt ye Mr Struth?
OK. There was that drowning and the stealing of that budgie but the SFA have confirmed that their investigations into those will be concluded in good time. Along with the investigations into sectarian singing at Ibrox and at every other venue visited in the past five years.
BIG PINKFEBRUARY 20, 2017 at 19:29
I think the problem, as Ryan Gosling pointed out the other day, is that some people are hoping the T’Rangers story will pan out to fit the narrative they want. That being that the whole shooting match at Ibrox comes tumbling down in a similar fashion to 2012.
Therefore we have stories about stealing water, collapsing roofs, non payment of cup tie monies due, hoping someone gets a favourable result in court etc etc.
IMHO this hope for ‘back of the taxi’ talk to be true all comes out of a sense of frustration that no-one within the game or the SMSM appear to want to have a serious or grown up debate about the state of one of the largest clubs in the country.
I tuned into SSB last night and that talk was about the possibility of McInnes going to T’Rangers. Keevins said Del Boy had taken Aberdeen as far as he could therefore if he was to stay in Scotland the only hope he would have of winning a title and possibly beating Celtic to the league would be with T’Rangers.
This opinion appeared to be given as an undeniable truth and with no reference or acknowledgement whatsoever to the financial shitstorm that currently surrounds the Ibrox club.
There was no rational discussion about how long and how much it may take to get T’Rangers back on track being they currently have no manager and are still generally relying on last years championship players and 38 year old defender, youngsters on loan and a striker who has only scored 4 and has a propensity to get booked in every game.
Of course there was no recognition with regard to how far Celtic were ahead both on and off the pitch and how a decent Aberdeen, Hearts and St Johnstone could, let alone this year, in years to come frustrate the ambitions of a T’Rangers team going through a rebuilding process.
When all those factors are taken into consideration, along with the merry-go-round of managers (5 soon to be 6) in five years why would someone like McInnes even go near Govan?
With the exception of the occasional hurumph from the likes of English and Spears very few appear to want to look into the deep pool of darkness that is the financial mess at Ibrox but talk of the troubles at teams like St Mirren and Kilmarnock are apparently no problem when it suits them.
I agree with Big Pink that we should focus on the true story and deal in realities but it is hard when others who are supposed to be more knowledgeable and qualified to talk about such matters are all living in and are continually promoting a fantasy.
And to make my point I note that Graham Spiers has tweeted that DCK is still seriously minted but has just gone cold on the T’Rangers project.
I trust that he is now going to provide us with a detailed piece in some publication or an online outlet on the hard evidence of DCK’s wealth, how much could be free to throw at T’Rangers and the ability for him to get his money out of SA, if he so desired.
After all DCK was very warm to the whole project but only a few years ago.
Where was all his free flowing cash last spring/summer when it was known Premiership football had been secured.
Scraping around Accrington Stanely for players hardly shows a great level of desire and bagfuls of cash.
If he thought his men were well of the mark fishing in those waters why did he not tell them to aim higher or elsewhere. The cash was surely available to back them up if Spiers is correct.
Just yet more nonsense from one of the better journos.
Nae wonder we take a drink.
Don’t really care about Kings wealth per se, off the radar or otherwise. He’s gone cold about funnelling it into T’Rangers purely because he appears to recognise what the accounts demonstrate: that it is a money pit with no guarantee of success. Not fair? Welcome to the real world where 41 other clubs ply their trade.
theravenFebruary 20, 2017 at 13:14
‘..Here is the link:https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/current-business/civil-appeals/sheriff-appeal-courtBut I can’t see anything coming up..’
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Thank you, theraven.
I have bookmarked that, for regular trawling.
I got a reply, after your post, to my email to the SAC.civil folk.
WOTTPI FEBRUARY 21, 2017 at 10:17
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That’s a really good post. Its plus ca change regards the SMSM but a cottage industry has emerged online where endless speculating about all things Rangers could also stand accused of continually promoting a fantasy.
Where the windy conditions off, let’s say, the coast of Ireland make it ideal weather for perpetual kite flying or where bloggers have had to allegedly flee the country because they purport to give their readers the unvarnished truth about things down Govan way.
I sometimes feel on occasion people are quick to criticize Rangers fans for believing in a fantasy whilst also exhibiting the very same behavior when it comes to negative stories about the team from Ibrox.
Either way both sides can be poorly served by the SMSM and social media when half-truths, speculation and wishful thinking dominate to the exclusion of the facts.
There are reported to be sixty (that might just be the shortlist, there may be more) unemployed football managers, who, in turn, probably have at least one adviser/agent each & none of them seem to have access to the internet/TV/print/other managers to help them decide that the job at TRFC is a poisoned chalice & is unlikely to improve their CV.
That seems amazing in an industry that constantly bangs on about ‘networking’ & ‘contacts’: an industry where it seems that ‘who you know’ is about as important as having the core skills for the job.
It can’t just be the money(!) & prestige(!) of managing the famous TRFC, can it? Are all football managers fantasists to some degree or another?
Why would someone take the job at Ibrox?
Endless adulation in SMSM – at least until the next installment of the omnishambles kicks in. Did I say endless? Oh.
Well at that point you can probably take solace in the massive payout you are likely to receive in some court of law.
If you play your cards right you won’t even have to take them to the cleaners in order to hang them out to dry.
In fact, aren’t we really watching a disgusting festival of cashing in on the Rangers fans left, right and centre?
From the guys running the club (DCK, Green, Whyte, Minty) to the guys writing about it in the media – it is all just a big fat cash cow to be milked dry.
To be fair, there are some RRM putting their hands in their pockets to keep the lights on, but my God they must be wondering about the Devil they are supping with – going to cost them a load of cash that they are very unlikely to ever see back.
I would be lying if I said I was shedding tears for the Rangers support. I’m not. I hate their triumphalism and ascendancy garbage – always have done, always will.
Their gullibility, fed by years of SMSM pandering and their own kulture, does not lend itself to great swathes of sympathy.
However, in the end, there is something very distasteful about watching ordinary people be lied to and ripped off mercilessly.
Scottish football is a farce and will remain so while this saga remains unresolved and the guilty remain in charge.
It could all be so different – look at what is happening at e.g. Aberdeen and Hearts – there are good news stories all over the place.
Yeah, I can imagine people wanting to join the circus at Ibrox.
For a while.
For a wad of cash and free publicity.
It sure as hell won’t be for the football or the fans.
No matter what they say or what the SMSM tell you.
incredibleadamsparkFebruary 21, 2017 at 11:55
‘..Either way both sides can be poorly served by the SMSM and social media when half-truths, speculation and wishful thinking dominate to the exclusion of the facts. ‘
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A very valid observation,incredibleadamspark.
But, of course, there are actual facts, that SFM most definitely does not exclude.
shall I list them all ( again?):
RFC were liquidated. Ceased to exist as a recognised football club, member of the SFA etc etc
Sevco5088/Sevcoscotland( decide which one the assets were sold to ) were not a ‘relegated Rangers’ or a ‘punished’ Rangers, but a brand new club , applying for membership of a league and of the SFA.
A secret deal was struck by a despicably cowardly SFA under which the new club would be regarded as actually being the other club that was and is still in liquidation.
None of these actual facts has been truthfully reported by the SMSM.Agreed.
This blog, the SFM, has consistently insisted on these facts as its core truth.
That truth cannot change.
But a huge distinction has to be drawn between ‘social media’ and the SMSM.
Generally speaking, accredited mainstream journalists are accorded privileged access to sources of information. .They can approach people on behalf of newspapers and tv programmes and ask questions.They have the means and resources to do some digging .Real journalists ask hard questions.
Our SMSM have consistently acted as no more than retailers of what those questioned wanted them to give as the answers.
Theirs is the betrayal and disgrace.
We who while away an hour or two in idle speculation, or wishful thinking, or less than thoroughly researched ‘news’, cannot be charged with anything other than the determination to find out what the actual facts might be, given that we cannot directly question the likes of King, or Murray ( either of them!) or Robertson. And, of course, get no response from the SFA.
It is, for example, a fact that Warbs is gone. It is a fact that no £30 million quid has been forthcoming from the South African based ( or base) businessman. It is a fact that the TRFC is financially toiling.
We look for explanations. The SMSM dare not even try. Or are too protective of TRFC to even wish to try.
ZilchFebruary 21, 2017 at 13:09
‘….In fact, aren’t we really watching a disgusting festival of cashing in on the Rangers fans left, right and centre?..’
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We didn’t know it at the time, of course, but SDM was playing the Rangers support for mugs all the time he was lying to the Football Authorities about how much and by what means he was paying his players.
CW played them for mugs by the simple means of taking advantage of Radar’s ( how feckin stoopid must that guy be!) assertion of his billionnaire status.
Charles played them for absolute suckers with his snake-oil salesman crap and bluster
The Administrators played them for babes in the wood by seming to imply that ‘Rangers’ had emerged from Administratio,
every successive ‘board’ of the new club has been playing them for absolute patsies ever since.
Nothing and no one associated with the control of TRFC has been doing anything other than cashing in on the faith of the fans of the old , but now deceased Rangers.
And, of course, the SFA has tried to play us all for mugs by kow-towing to utterly ignoble , sport-destroying, lying and cheating b.st.rds instead of nailing the cheats in office in their own ranks and protecting the integrity of our (not their) sport.
It’s not often I say it, but well done to JJ on his Morton exclusive yesterday.
He has prompted the Record to write about the “discredited blogger”, but what they failed to say was that Morton only received the cash yesterday, as confirmed by Hugh Keevins call to the club.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/morton-rubbish-rumour-started-discredited-9856616
On one reading of the rules, the money should have been handed over by last Friday, but an alternative interpretation could have meant that yesterday was the final day for payment. Did JJ’s exclusive prompt Rangers to pay up? Who knows, but I’d encourage JJ to continue to report on his exclusives, but with the addition of the caveat of checking and confirming the “rules” before publication.
Sorry but I’m not really understanding that.
If the money was due to be paid either on Friday or on Monday then how could it possibly have been 5 days overdue on Monday.
Am I missing something.
HOMUNCULUSFEBRUARY 21, 2017 at 14:21
Sorry but I’m not really understanding that.
If the money was due to be paid either on Friday or on Monday then how could it possibly have been 5 days overdue on Monday.
Am I missing something.
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I think that is what EJ is saying Homunculus. My interpretation of the rules would be it was payable close of business Friday, so therefore overdue, but by no stretch of the imagination 5 days overdue come Monday. Best to check the rules first. It let the SMSM have a wee kick at him where none was due really.
However the “leak”must have come from somewhere. Either Crumbledome or Morton being reasonable assumptions, with Morton probably the most likely.
No harm done, as it is now paid, but it may not have been paid, and we may not have learned about it otherwise.