A Guest Blog for TSFM by beatipacificiscotia
As a child I read a poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”, and stumbled upon it again recently. It is a simple tale of how six blind men encounter an Elephant and attempt to describe the animal:
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”
You get the idea. The other blind men did little better. The second grabbed the tusk and thought the elephant like a spear. Others thought the elephant like a snake (the trunk), a tree (the leg), a fan (the ear), and finally a rope (the tail). What does this have to do with this blog? Let me explain.
There is a danger of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously, making the same mistake as these blind gentleman. It is too easy to use the parts of the argument that fit our values and belief system, at the expense of the whole truth. The 13th century Jaina scholar, Mallisena, described a much earlier version of the same tale as a parable to argue that people deny various aspects of truth; deluded by the aspects they do understand, they deny the aspects they don’t understand. He said:
“Due to extreme delusion produced on account of a partial viewpoint, the immature deny one aspect and try to establish another. This is the maxim of the blind (men) and the elephant.”
I am incapable of putting it any better than that, though I would go further. I argue that people are deluded by the aspects that they choose to understand, and deny the aspects that they refuse to understand. Which leads me to my tale …..
I have recently read a news report about a decision taken by the Advertising Standards Authority on advertising activities of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and their claims to history and honours. It includes the following quote referring to advice from the SFA:
“We also consulted with the SFA, which confirmed that its definition of a football ‘club’ varied depending on context, and could sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner.”
I was most unhappy to read this part of the statement. I am yet to see the definition or statement of when you could “sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner”. This is a contradiction to the definition of a football club given by FIFA; a definition which is handed down to the Confederations, and from Confederations to Associations.
You may or may not be aware, the application of good governance in football is administered through club licensing. This annual process ensures that minimum standards are maintained, to promote growth and development, and ultimately protects all of football – every club, every player and staff member, the integrity of every competition, suppliers of goods and services, the reputation of sponsors, and most of all the fans. FIFA Club Licensing Regulations state that a license applicant must be a football club, defined as:
“Legal entity fully and solely responsible for the football team participating in national and international club competitions that applies for a licence.”
This is a clear and unambiguous definition, which is being ignored by the SFA. Why is this issue so important? Simply, a football club must be held responsible for its commercial activities. For example, an over-ambitious and over-spending Rangers changed the Scottish football landscape forever. Other clubs tried to compete in an unsustainable “Cold War”-like football arms race. I believe Scottish football was damaged. Many clubs have been taken to the brink of death. This could happen in any country, in any league, anywhere in the world. For that reason, a football club and its corporate body must be one and the same, living or dying, inseparably intertwined. The separation of club and company is a myth, a myth dangerous to good governance. Rangers (1872-2012) should be a cautionary tale told to every club owner.
There are many benefits to club licensing. These including minimum standards for stadia and infrastructure, youth development programs, and much more. I would heartily recommend that you read the FIFA document if you have the time. It gave birth to the word and spirit of Financial Fair Play. Look at some of the financial benefits detailed:
10.3 Benefits
Implementation of the financial criteria will help deliver both short and long-term improvements for clubs, the licensors and the football family in general. For the football family in general, the financial criteria should help to:
• safeguard the continuity and integrity of competitions;
• increase the transparency and credibility of clubs’ financial operations;
• improve confidence in the probity of the football industry;
• create a more attractive market for the game’s commercial partners and investors; and
• provide the basis for fair competition, because competition is not just about the teams on the pitch.
For the licensors, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve their understanding of the financial position and prospects of their member clubs;
• encourage clubs to settle liabilities to creditors on a timely basis;
• enhance transparency in the money flow of clubs;
• enhance their ability to be proactive in assisting clubs with financial issues; and
• provide a starting point for club benchmarking at a national level for those licensors and clubs who want to develop this aspect.
For the clubs, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve the standards and quality of financial management and planning activities;
• enable better management decision-making;
• enhance clubs’ financial and business credibility with stakeholders;
• improve financial stability; and
• enhance revenue-generating ability and cost management.
Important words, and I trust the value and opportunity these regulations offer are now clear. Note bullet points 3 and 4, and that our top league currently does not have a sponsor. The SFA must ensure the integrity of competitions, discourage financial recklessness, and protect football for everyone. This is only possible with a clear, unambiguous statement that confirms club / company are one and the same thing.
To suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation is to undermine the definition of what is a football club, one of the cornerstones of FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. For the SFA to suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation, or allow this belief to go unchallenged, is a shameful dereliction of duty. It puts all of football in danger. We cannot allow this. There is too much at stake.
The poem ends thus:
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
The blind men were each partially right, though in their vanity / stubbornness / ignorance they failed to find the truth. There is a lesson for us all in this story. This may appear to be an attempt to renew the old club / new club debate. It is not. To see this as an opportunity to score points against Rangers fans is to completely miss the point – you have failed to find the truth.
This is global issue affecting one of the fundamentals of good governance. Good governance must be the beating heart of our game – ensuring good health and long life. I am looking at the here and now, and ahead into the future.
We must protect and promote ALL of the FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. To deny any part is to refuse to see the whole elephant, like the foolish blind men.
LW
PMGB is so anxious to be the breaker of the doomsday report from Ibrox he doesn’t pause for breath between receiving raw info/claims and tweeting.
Yesterdays share numbers being an example.
The ‘millions’ number he was given should have triggered a simple check on RIFC trades on the web where they were in B&W.
So what we had was a ‘journalist’ who didn’t do his checks getting mistaken numbers from the ‘financial man’ down in the City of London. 😀
More nonsense on SSB
JI releases a statement say Phil got it wrong in his tweet today and No meetings were held at Ibrox today
So according to Hugh that is clarity from TRFC
After they asked for TRFC to come out and clarify their position after Phil’s blog at the weekend
No comments on the financial position
No denial of Wallace in London with the begging bowl out
Only thing JI said was Phil got it wrong today
But that’s all the clarity they need :slamb: to say its A OK 🙁
Barcabhoy just tweeted:
Wallace is the only exec director.
If he walks,shares will be suspended!
Jack Irvine making statements about what PMGB is tweeting, and Greenock Jack on here, with no evidence Phil is wrong, just saying he might be. Someone’s got someone rattled.
Angus1983 says:
February 4, 2014 at 4:59 pm
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Angus your posts are generally a positive contribution to this site but you seem to have a right bee in your bonnet about this farcical SPFL complaint.
In the first place, the banner has no place at Celtic Park or any football ground. In the second place, the complaint should never have been brought and the SPFL have saved themselves a whole lot of bother by taking the sensible decision not to make a wholly subjective decision on what is at best a very tendentious point.
There is only so much the directors of a football club can do when dealing with thousands of supporters. To take an example close to your heart, I assume Stewart Milne and/or his fellow directors were present at Tynecastle on Saturday afternoon.
Given that Neil Lennon was forced to move twice during the 70 minutes he attended that match, it is inconceivable that the Aberdeen officials were not aware that something untoward was going on around them.
Did they make any enquiries as to what was happening, in the knowledge that only Aberdeen supporters were in that part of the main stand? If not, why not? Surely the time to apprehend those responsible was there and then – with stewards and police in attendance, CCTV capturing everything that was happening.
Has Aberdeen done anything since – checked who bought the tickets, asked Hearts for CCTV footage? Has it done anything other than issue an utterly meaningless press release?
Has anybody raised this tendentious point about Aberdeen? No, precisely because that’s what it is, as is the nonsense surrounding the banner at Celtic Park.
Have the people at the SPFL really got nothing better to do, for example enquire into the pending demise of one of their most esteemed, if youngest, members? Scottish football needs to get a sense of perspective.
And moreover, if it is considered that these banners are offensive, aren’t we entitled to ask what Police Scotland are doing about this? In all the recent events concerning alleged supporter misbehaviour, the cops have been posted missing, though not, I suspect, if you look at their overtime claims.
Ajax fans in Glasgow city centre and trashing Celtic Park? Nope, no arrests there
Motherwell fans at Hamilton? No arrests there
Celtic fans at Motherwell? No arrests there (though a few weeks later there were some daring dawn raids to lift a few schoolkids)
The H banner? No arrests though there were at least a dozen cops making videos at the time.
So let’s concentrate on the real issues affecting Scottish football – the excellent prospect of Saturday’s cup tie between Celtic and Aberdeen, the excitement of ICT qualifying for their first final (and the chance for football fans in Glasgow to support what promises to be a thrilling League Cup Final) and of course no discourse on Scottish football is complete without the latest Rangers crisis – though Greenock Jack and Jack and the other Jack all seem to be speaking with one voice (strange that), i.e. “Crisis, what crisis? We’re busy watching the under-20s”
hmm
Allyjambo says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:51 pm
Jack Irvine making statements about what PMGB is tweeting, and Greenock Jack on here, with no evidence Phil is wrong, just saying he might be. Someone’s got someone rattled.
=======================================================================
Or maybe Graham is playing hardball by cracking some heads at Ibrox in order to reach the start of his five year plan – especially if Barcabhoy’s comment on share suspension is true.
Allyjambo says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:51 pm
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Takes a genius to tweet and blog at the same time?
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:49 pm
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Hell has to freeze over before the folks running AIM think of doing anything so radical. Believe me, TRFC will be in administration before that happens….
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:22 pm
Phil now tweeting:
Remember the £2.5m loan guarantee.That’s very important…………
Make of it what you will.
===========================================
Could mean anything and maybe even Phil doesn’t know as his source could be just giving bits and pieces.
But if the info is correct then I would plump for the money not being forthcoming and that raises several points. Was is ever kosher to begin with or has it subsequently been withdrawn and, if so, when?
That of course takes us onto the accounts as I would normally have assumed that for the amount to be included in audited accounts would require cast-iron guarantees backed-up with real security. But maybe not 😳
However if Wallace is walking then no matter how loth it is to do do AIM can’t ignore it. Irrespective of any other investigation which might be taking place you would imagine they would want a word with him. I don’t believe he has any reason to lie about financial matters at Ibrox – would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation ❗
Now Bill McMurdo has found the inspiration to sing from the same song sheet………….strange how you can get a blog up in minutes on a non event and also – why the need to make sure no one is listening……..
Won’t put the link cos he doesn’t deserve the hits……..but here is his (or Jack’s) words…….
February 4, 2014 by billmcmurdo
Breaking News
A mentally unstable man is sending messages from somewhere in Co Donegal about Rangers’ imminent demise.
If you see this man, get him medical help. He may give several names to identify himself but do not be afraid if he snarls when you mention Rangers – he doesn’t have rabies.
Seriously, I never read Mad Phil.
But I know others do and he occasionally manages to spook people.
His latest outburst is apparently some drivel about CEO Graham Wallace being about to walk from Ibrox. Directors are apparently locked in crisis talks.
On Planet Phil, all is grim if you are a Rangers fan. Administration II looms and the Klan are in disarray.
Planet Phil is in the same solar system as Celtic’s valuation of their players and cash-rich CFC. It is a fantasy realm.
Back in the real world, CEO Graham Wallace is watching the Under 20s with team manager Ally McCoist. There have been no meetings at Ibrox today and none of the directors have been present.
Sorry if that is boring but real life often is, unlike the parallel universe Phil and others inhabit.
We cannot with any certainty say that Phil Mac Giolla Bhain is mentally unstable due to being tarred with the sectarian brush but it is evident he has been sniffing something.
If you don’t want to catch what Mad Phil has, do what I do.
Don’t read his blogs or Twitter.
ss61. You could have just said whataboutaberdeenthough?
Personally, as a Dons fan, I can’t see the relevance of any other club when it comes to the disgusting and embarrassing behaviour at Tynecastle.
A wee thought, don’t have any other kind. Phil tweets and blogs a lot about TRFC. Very rarely, if ever, do TRFC respond. Could be they don’t read his tweets and blogs, or only look out for things that might hurt them. Today Jack Irvine (on behalf of the club?) refutes, without offering any real counter-evidence, one of Phil’s tweets within a very short time. Very few intelligent people take announcements from PR people, especially him, seriously. If TRFC feels the need to refute Phil’s claim, why no statement from Wallace, or at least someone believable? There may well have been no meetings at Ibrox today, but then, meetings can take place anywhere. And as far as I can make out, the only supporting evidence Irvine gave for his counter-claim was no meetings at Ibrox. As I said earlier, Phil may be wrong, or Wallace might change his mind, but that doesn’t make things any better at Ibrox.
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:42 pm
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I’ll grant you Phil can be sloppy with numbers and dates. He said admin in Nov 12 and he was wrong – it was 12 weeks later. How wrong can you get??
Timing matters little – the folks on the Titanic didn’t really care if it could float for 3 hours or 30, they wanted off.
If someone can show me an unqualified audit report with Deloitte’s signature at the bottom of TRFC’s 2013 accounts (due 24 days from now), I may reconsider but otherwise I’m with Phil on the inevitable outcome for this basket case subsidiary company.
Timing matters little, except failure to lodge proper accounts after 18 long months of the journey back to the top is daily proof of the problem.
It’s now almost 8 months since the accounting period ended, why delay publishing what is, after all, history?
Are some numbers missing? Shouldn’t they have been retrieved from the Finance Director before he got his jotters?
Or is it not the numbers, but some of the pesky wording that’s holding things up, e.g. “the directors are satisfied that the company is able to meet its debts as they fall due” ?
It really is pathetic that Companies House and other anoraks demand such small print for what is after all a great Scottish institution.
Rules are for the little people after all, eh Jack?
54 (ways to say “we’ve run out of money”)
Slim
I fully recognize the major financial problems at Ibrox and won’t be watching the under 20s tonight.
I have been full in my criticism for Irvine, his methods and those spivs who have given him his remit.
So when I question a media outlet (social), in this case PMGB. I do so in the spirit of monitoring the media as is part of this blogs remit.
.
I repeat
PMGB is so anxious to be the breaker of the doomsday report from Ibrox he doesn’t pause for breath between receiving raw info/claims and tweeting.
Yesterdays share numbers being an example.
The ‘millions’ number he was given should have triggered a simple check on RIFC trades on the web where they were in B&W.
So what we had was a ‘journalist’ who didn’t do his checks blaming his mistaken numbers on the ‘financial man’ down in the City of London.
.
I have made a couple of checks myself and for once in my life am going to back-up what Irvine just said.
I think PMGB might be getting led up the garden path of late (regarding detail) and I also have an idea of who may be speaking to him, an ex-commercial director of RIFC.
ps. I accept your point re. timing but my post is one of monitoring media opposed to the financial situation at Ibrox.
slimshady61 says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:58 pm
Allyjambo says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:51 pm
————————————–
Takes a genius to tweet and blog at the same time?
__________________________________________-
Point taken! Unless, of course, he has a split personality, or just a very good, secret friend 🙄
tcup 2012 says:
February 4, 2014 at 6:45 pm
More nonsense on SSB
JI releases a statement say Phil got it wrong in his tweet today and No meetings were held at Ibrox today
So according to Hugh that is clarity from TRFC
After they asked for TRFC to come out and clarify their position after Phil’s blog at the weekend
No comments on the financial position
No denial of Wallace in London with the begging bowl out
Only thing JI said was Phil got it wrong today
==========================================
To be fair to Rangers – as I always am – RIFC is caught in a bit of a regulatory bind because if Wallace is going they will need to announce it to AIM first. If they announce it elsewhere first or even admit it then they really will cut their own throat.
So we won’t know for certain he has resigned until tomorrow when it’s announced to the market. If it isn’t announced that still doesn’t mean he isn’t going and it doesn’t mean that sh*t hasn’t truly hit the fan today.
So no meeting at Ibrox – well that could mean it was in a hotel or Murray Park or wherever. And maybe it isn’t being termed a ‘meeting’. Don’t ever forget that JI is a master with words and the perceived meaning he is spinning to the masses.
The fact he is even saying anything is indicative of how seriously Phil’s statement is being taken. But why hasn’t he stated that immediate legal action will be taken against Phil? If he has got it that wrong why hold back?
Phil has stated some quite specific things and JI should have countered them one by one – a general dismissal seems to me to be a sign of weakness.
But what will be will be 😆
How much is Mr. Irvine and his Company still taking for their PR throw aways?
Paulmac
How much is Mr. Irvine and his Company still taking for their PR throw aways?
——————————————————-
The question is, why is he still there?
Bill McMurdo has the Phil story in double quick time but of course is not Jack Irvine’s mouthpiece . Bill as usual sneers and reckons what Phil has is infectious so best not to read his blogs. Not sure if the T word is OK in here but all the large green people with sticky out ears that live in a swamp are manning the pumps on the SS Sevco as it sinks. For Jack to have to reply to Phil means it is getting serious.
ecobhoy says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:15 pm
====================
Having heard the call on Radio Clyde tonight the thing that struck me was the admission by Hugh Keevins that the MSM hear exactly the same speculation as we do. That is not groundbreaking news I know, but the stance is normally one of the Three Wise Monkeys. Normally such a call, especially quoting P. McG as a source, would be dismissed out of hand on that show. John the caller though is a decent sounding Rangers fan who has called the show for years, and he spoke from the heart, citing evidence that P. McG had got much right in this saga the last time, which Keevins surprisingly admitted. I had switched off before the Ibrox PR message came in but I’m not sure they can even limit the damage now. What is it about clubs from Ibrox and the month of February!
One thing that is a puzzle….any man in GW’s position worth his salt…going to the square mile to ask for a 7 or 8 figure amount….must …MUST have known the first question coming straight back at him would have been…’so what assets or collateral do you have?’…
To sit there and say I don’t know who owns the assets…in that high powered enviroment would…to put not to fine a point on it…made him look a right plum and seriously questioned his credibility…
That don’t add up in my book…and there has to be more to those meetings…asking for a job maybe?
Exiled Celt says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:03 pm
==============================================
What amazes me about McMurdo is that he professes to be a Christian and yet I see no sign of that in the language of hatred that he uses especially towards someone he labels as being mentally ill.
Given the level, speed and tone of the reaction the only conclusion I can form is that Phil has hit a very raw nerve indeed ❗
Use of words again
Our execs always go off-site too when there is sensitive stuff to discuss
Phil responds
For the avoidance of doubt:
There was meeting today in Glasgow; Graham Wallace, Nash, Somers and an Easdale brother. Another meeting tonight
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain · 8 mins
For the avoidance of doubt:
There was meeting today in Glasgow; Graham Wallace,Nash,Somers and an Easdale brother. Another meeting tonight
M’Lud,you were bloody quick.
LW
For the avoidance of doubt:
There was meeting today in Glasgow; Graham Wallace, Nash, Somers and an Easdale brother. Another meeting tonight
———————————————————-
So has PMGB went to source and asked for more detail or permission to use it?
I’d suggest that someone who wants to be considered as a journalist is more careful about his initial tweets and that he relays his message (accurate or not) in a more precise, accurate and less ‘sevco dig’ manner.
As alluded to earlier, whilst we don’t know exactly what’s going on, we can always speculate.
Mibbees Wallace is playing his own game: get the main power brokers behind RIFC jittery with a carefully placed ‘scare’ story that the CEO “will in fact do Woking Away 😉 “.
The resultant social media / MSM firestorm may provide Wallace with some extra leverage in whatever negotiations he is managing ?
Who knows…
GJ
😉 let’s just wait and see 😉 if Keevins is not going into ‘no that’s rubbish’ mode things must be pretty desperate
With a winding-up petition being issued against Leeds United today, it seems that Leeds and Rangers are following parallel paths. From the relatively recent summit of battling out the later stages of the Champions’ League via a hyper inflated squad of players, through the subsequent bursting of the bubble and the attraction of the Arthur Daleys and Charlie Endells of the business world, to a present state of being a hollowed out shell of the original institution, apparently one financial or legal slip away from disaster. Which one is going to stagger on the longer?
Tartanwulver @ 7.52pm.
Re debate about Leeds United and Rangers and “which one is going to stagger on the longer”
I suggest it might be a dead-heat.
Because Leeds lead and Rangers Follow Follow.
Unlike the vast majority, if not all, of internet bampots, Phil is a card carrying professional journalist. His living depends on getting it right many more times than he gets it wrong.
He will make no claims to infallibility but he very much has a vested interest in getting it right,
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:42 pm
8 25 Rate This
So has PMGB went to source and asked for more detail or permission to use it?
I’d suggest that someone who wants to be considered as a journalist is more careful about his initial tweets and that he relays his message (accurate or not) in a more precise, accurate and less ‘sevco dig’ manner.
————————————————-
Ok Jack , we get it. You don’t like Phil . He’s a decent journalist with his own style of writing . If you don’t like his tweets etc , don’t read them .
He’s on the money more often than not and has put the SMSM to shame over the business of dead rangers/sevco and their shenanigans.
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:42 pm
LW
For the avoidance of doubt:
There was meeting today in Glasgow; Graham Wallace, Nash, Somers and an Easdale brother. Another meeting tonight
———————————————————-
So has PMGB went to source and asked for more detail or permission to use it?
I’d suggest that someone who wants to be considered as a journalist is more careful about his initial tweets and that he relays his message (accurate or not) in a more precise, accurate and less ‘sevco dig’ manner.
=======================================================================
I really do think that it is Phil’s business whether he goes to his source and what he asks them and no doubt the source would advise whether the info could be used or not.
Tbh I doubt whether Phil cares what other people think of him as a journalist – he does what he does because he considers himself an investigative journo and I would have to say I can’t think of anyone in the SMSM who is his match in that department.
As to being nicer to Sevco – yes well it’s much easier to be rational when not tweeting but when under a barrage of vile comments and accusations from all those Sevco moderates I am quite surprised that he doesn’t react more strongly.
I have never ever seen yourself @ Greenock Jack do an investigative post and that would be interesting to see how you compare with Phil. I also think it should be remembered that Phil labelled his initial tweet as ‘breaking news’ or similar. That is a warning that it’s rushed, possibly scrappy and perhaps not 100% but usually implies it will be added to and corrected if need be.
The main point of the story was that Wallace was ready to walk – it’s possible this was a ploy on his behalf to knock heads together but it smacks to me that that would be a last ditch attempt by him to save Rangers. If he doesn’t think it will work then he will walk and so will Nash – simply because they have reputations to lose and I don’t think they were spivs. They might have been misguided in joining Rangers but I can see a variety of reasons why they both did which are neither here nor there.
I think I saw another post that said Keevins agreed with a caller that the SMSM had been hearing similar allegations to those given to Phil. I have little time for Keevins but I don’t know why he would lie about that.
Using Ibrox as the meeting place could be Phil trying to protect his source or perhaps the source was trying to protect his own identity as perhaps only a very limited number of people actually knew the venue. So I don’t read too much into that because I doubt if it was actually a mistake ‘mistake’.
As soon as JI responded followed his his latter-day mouthpiece then I was pretty certain Phil was on-the-money. JI knows you never respond to loon-tunes as it only encourages them further, The fact that he did respond is clear to me that Phil has got it right or is very close to the truth.
And just for the record I don’t think Phil is a loon tune – obsessive perhaps but then there has never been a good investigative reporter who wasn’t obsessive. I rest my case and look forward to an investigative piece from you @Jack 😀
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:42 pm
I think it’s the way with journalists, that they like to be first with the news, and when a trusted source tells them something big, they want to get it out there before it breaks elsewhere. This kind of information has probably been available to many of the succulent lambists but they generally choose not to seek it out as it’s not something they would choose/dare to write about. Are you suggesting that there are proper journalists out there who would get a sniff of something like this and just wait till it’s announced on AIM? But there’s enough credibility about PMGB that makes you feel the need to return to the blog to try to convince us not to take it as correct. Why might that be if you feel there’s little credence to what PMGB says?
On another point. PMGB might well have posted the erroneous figures re yesterdays share dealing too quickly, but then, it was hardly ground breaking news, and perhaps he didn’t feel the need to do any checking. Unlike the news today where he probably asked for a few more details than he feels free to tweet for the sake of his contact. Yesterday’s postings are hardly the stuff of law-suits, today’s just might be if wrong.
The Rangers business model has failed , down to the last knockings , only the timing of plug pulling left to sort out.
Difficult to think of an equivalent bonkers business scenario …..
Exiled Celt says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:03 pm
Re McMurdo’s blog
“Planet Phil is in the same solar system as Celtic’s valuation of their players and cash-rich CFC. It is a fantasy realm.”
Compare and contrast
Celtic get uncapped defender Kelvin Wilson from Nottingham Forest on a free and then sell him back to the club a couple of years later for £2.5m
Rangers get international defender from Hearts for £1.5m (later reduced to £1.4m) and the only offer the cash strapped club get is for an alleged £900k and Nottingham Forest apparently say no way Jose and go with ex Celtic player Danny Fox who the Hoops reportedly made £300k on when he went to Burnley.
So that is £2.8m of fantasy cash the club from Ibrox could do with just now.
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 7:42 pm
8 30 Rate This
LW
For the avoidance of doubt:
There was meeting today in Glasgow; Graham Wallace, Nash, Somers and an Easdale brother.
Another meeting tonight
———————————————————-
So has PMGB went to source and asked for more detail or permission to use it?
I’d suggest that someone who wants to be considered as a journalist is more careful about his initial tweets and that he relays his message (accurate or not) in a more precise, accurate and
less ‘sevco dig’ manner.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The converse being that someone who wants to be considered as a journalist is more careful about his initial tweets and that he relays his message (accurate or not) in a more precise, accurate and
less ‘sevco jingoistic’ manner. Not something that some of the SMSM could ever be accused of.
But while I agree about the precision and accuracy (which ought to be the minimum requirement for any aspiring scribe), the mark of a good journalist is to deliver the story in an entertaining manner. You would have to be a Rangers and/or Sevco fan to not be entertained by Phil’s Ibrox exposés.
I asked the question yesterday about the trip to London and the already secured loan from the accounts ( are they one and the same). I only asked as the section in the accounts was of the usual sketchy variety.
I have another question, what would suit best between voluntary or forced ( pass the buck type winding up order by a creditor) administration. Is there any benefit to either form, we’ve been here before I’m sure.
And another question, does the UTT enter play at all.
Thanks in advance.
ecobhoy says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:17 pm
Allyjambo says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:18 pm
OMG!!! You two just blew my chocolate socks off 😉
Brilliant stuff.
Auldheid
He may carry a card but not only was he unprofessional in not checking the ‘huge’ share numbers he came out with yesterday (easily done online) but he went on to blame his source in an attempt to cover up his shortcomings.
Today, had his first tweet on the ‘meetings’ been more precise and detailed (as later followed) then it would have been much more difficult for Irvine to deny. Instead he has to rush it out with more time being spent on coming up with the customary Sevco dig. Take a few minutes more and get it right, he hasn’t got to beat the MSM to it, has he?
PMGB has a vested interest that is not balanced and this leads to a lack of professionalism.
The MSM get it in the neck and in many cases desevedly so.
So should those on social media be open to criticism.
PMGB has went with some very specific information, timescales and claims of late so it won’t be long until we know how accurate they are.
i can hear the sound of gurgling as the last dregs of water go down the sink. The storm clouds are gathering. The distress signals and flares are being sent. The white flag is being raised. The rats are deserting the ship. The train wreck is nigh. The end is near.
No matter how many metaphor or cliches I use the message is the same.
The Rangers are………………….!
For the avoidance of doubt…………..the same chap who decried a successful author as telling fairy tales………..is the same chap who published an entire blog a week ago stating that Blue Pitch Whomever could at any time put 50 million quid into the quicksand surrounding Ibrokes……………just saying!
Tonight Jim Delahunt referred to ‘Alex Tommo’s’ blog as something to do with channel 4, talks a lot about Rangers and as something we [SSB] have peeked at.
That sums that show up for me.
Not sure why Jack resonded to the latest Phil tweet as the various Rangers sites only mentioned Phil to mock his placing of a decimal point in a share transaction but now Phil is the talk of the steamie so as deflections go epic fail. The band plays goodnight sevco to keep the fans calm as the SS Sevco slips beneath the waves cue Lazarus FC playing at Ibrox in the near future.
Anyone lost a war chest?
http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/men-unearth-haul-of-mediaeval-coins-in-twynholm-1-3294099
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:28 pm
PMGB has went with some very specific information, timescales and claims of late so it won’t be long until we know how accurate they are.
=========================================================
I agree with you and I think that after the initial tweet about the London trip I said something similar. Phil has nailed his flag firmly to the mast on these two tweets. If he has got it wrong then his credibility will be shredded.
The only way I could see him getting it wrong is if he has been set-up by a clever PR sting.
However I won’t bother developing that because I doubt if Phil would get taken-in and I also think he has got it right. He might never be able to prove it conclusively but then the chances are that events will do so.
So if he can’t provie it that should mean he can be torn apart in a civil action launched by Rangers. Well that would be the logical conclusion wouldn’t it. Well actually it isn’t if he got it right. But you said he couldn’t prove it.
He can’t but when he’s taken to court he’ll have Wallace and Nash as witnesses. I’m sure JI would be the first to admit that he believes the duo would tell the truth under oath. So I don’t think we will see any legal action because veritas is an absolute defence 😆
@Greenock Jack
You seem hellbent on convincing us all that PMGB’s tweets are not to be believed. For a variety of reasons what he’s stated might not come to pass, or will be delayed until some event has passed and less damage is done, immediately, to the club. Why not wait to see, then come back and crow all you like? Whether or not you convince us all, or a few, that Phil is not to be trusted, it will not make one jot of difference to TRFC’s chances of surviving until the end of the season with, or without, an insolvency event.
You are not going to convince us, but you knew that before you made your first post. Why don’t you just let us know what you think might happen in the event Phil’s tweets prove to be accurate? Until now we’ve been going on the premise that administration is likely, but in a controlled fashion. If the only ‘controlled’ mind on the board exits, do you see things going smoothly, or do you think it’ll be more frantic than first anticipated as his exit would probably mean things are really, really bad?
Even Woodward and Bernstein got it wrong at times.
Scottish Football needs a strong investigatory media.
Fisiani says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:32 pm
6 0 Rate This
i can hear the sound of gurgling as the last dregs of water go down the sink. The storm clouds
are gathering. The distress signals and flares are being sent. The white flag is being raised. The rats are deserting the ship. The train wreck is nigh. The end is near.
No matter how many metaphor or cliches I use the message is the same.
The Rangers are………………….!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me see.
A ship…adrift…infested with cannibal rats…that once ran aground on Deception Island?
http://m.scotsman.com/news/odd/ghost-ship-with-cannibal-rats-may-head-to-scotland-1-3280464
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Lyubov_Orlova
There must be a metaphor in there that fits something. 😉
jean7brodie says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:28 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:17 pm
Allyjambo says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:18 pm
OMG!!! You two just blew my chocolate socks off 😉
=====================================
Just the socks – I can see Paulmac2’s temperature soaring
redlichtie says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:50 pm
Even Woodward and Bernstein got it wrong at times
======================================
They actually got a helluva lot wrong in fact. But no one remembers that – they remember the result ❗
I have no doubt that will be the case with Phil as well as long as his Deepthroat has got it right 🙄
Eco
I’m not an investigative reporter so don’t hold your breath waiting on my first piece. 😆
As you know, good investigative reporters are very thin on the ground these days. There are various reasons for this with economic constraints and an increasing wish from the powerful to control or manage public opinion.
The growth sector regarding information has been PR (or spin) and this is poisoning society in a very negative and understated way. It is now acceptable corporate and political practise to not only artfully mislead clients and voters but to create mindsets which make the task easier.
ecobhoy says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm
Just the socks – I can see Paulmac2′s temperature soaring
——————————————————————————————
Then his own pants will melt, Hell mend him!!!! 😆
jean7brodie says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:28 pm
8 0 Rate This
ecobhoy says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:17 pm
Allyjambo says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:18 pm
OMG!!! You two just blew my chocolate socks off
Brilliant stuff.
…………………………………………..
I’m telling you Jean…that chocolate dressy up gear is nae good…don’t try the chocolate knickers…they are deadly I tell you! 😆
Jean, eco and Paul,
Forget the chocolate gear, wait until the only thing to be blown off is the jelly and ice cream 😳
Paulmac2 says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:08 pm
—————————————————
My goodness you are a kinky betch. 😀 😀
Allyjambo
I’m in the dark as to how events will unfold. There are obviously major financial problems and then you have the majority of RIFC shareholders who want a tangible ROI. Considering those involved I think it was always heading towards a transfer or sale of assets from the club.
I think we have reached a point where plans may or may not have come undone regarding how exactly this was going to be done, with some spivs getting out at what may be a strategic and deliberate time. Although Laxey partners increased stake and methods of dealing with Green (share deal in Oct 2012) make you think that they know what they are doing.
Much obviously depends on raising finance to get through to ST renewals but the costbase must be cut to the bone before there will be investment. Current shareholders don’t seem to want Dave King attaining an important stakeholding as yet.
Whether the 2.5M unsecured facility is available I don’t know.
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:28 pm
Today, had his first tweet on the ‘meetings’ been more precise and detailed (as later followed) then it would have been much more difficult for Irvine to deny. Instead he has to rush it out with more time being spent on coming up with the customary Sevco dig. Take a few minutes more and get it right, he hasn’t got to beat the MSM to it, has he?
……………………………………………
To be fair he broke the last story a year before the SMSM dipped their toes…
And if you are looking for precise detail…look no further than the detail contained in his blog yesterday…full of precise detail…non of which has been denounced by the other Jack…
I fully understand Jack that the news for the club you follow does not look good…in fact its dreadful…but the track record Phil has had in providing information about the financial omnishambles involving the clubs out of Govan over the last 3 years has been accurate to a fairly high level…contrast that with the SMSM who would have you believe everything was tickety boo…with varying degrees of wonderfulness…
The fact is if the SMSM did their job correctly without fear or favour….then there would be no need for the Phil’s of this world….
I think everyone is being a little unfair to Greenock Jack – and some even attacking him for having an opinion. he has said exactly what I said myself the other day. The share story last night was a bit embarrassing – especially as it was accompanied (don’t know if it was from Phil or some else) by a claim that the transaction had been subject to an application for a delayed announcement. Not the sort of thing required for 28k shares if the problem was just a few zeros misplaced.
Jack is also advising us to guard against exactly what is happening here – that opinions are being Chinese-Whispered into fact. On the lack of objectivity charge, he can hardly be blamed. None of us are innocent on that count.
Ecobhoy is also correct. Reputations could be at stake here. I am more concerned that the teasing nature of Phil’s titbits get swallowed up whole by this blog and our reputation goes bye-bye too.
My information is that Phil is incorrect, but maybe my information is wrong (after all, Wallace isn’t my source). Caution will serve us better than a rush to believe what we want to believe.
If Wallace had resigned before 5pm today, my source tells me that it would have been announced immediately. if he resigns this evening, we will hear about it first thing tomorrow. Not long to wait and show some caution.
jean7brodie says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:04 pm
4 0 Rate This
ecobhoy says:
February 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm
Just the socks – I can see Paulmac2′s temperature soaring
——————————————————————————————
Then his own pants will melt, Hell mend him!!!!
……………………………………………
Pants???
Are you 50’s girl…seriously…next it will be ‘ Y’ fronts 🙄
The 28k buy was subject to delayed announcement. Definitely.
ianagain says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:42 pm
The 28k buy was subject to delayed announcement. Definitely.
__________________________________________________________________
For just 28k? Any idea why that would be? 28m I can understand…..
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:30 pm
Cheers GJ, but how would, if it’s true, the resignation of Wallace affect this, in your opinion. It would surely mean that things are much worse than predicted as I doubt he’d take such drastic action if things were only slightly worse than he’d been led to believe? Do you think his leaving would cause a panic, amongst those left on the board and the shareholders, and do you think they have someone readily available to cope with a worsening position? I think much of the guess-work re a possible administration has been made assuming that it would be planned and controlled to produce a desired result (though not for the fans). Could it be that a Wallace resignation might indicate that the mess is uncontrollable?
Ianagain
Yesterdays revised tweet.
“Shares traded were 75000 @ 25p and 38970 @ 25.5p both transactions had delayed publication requests.Total value£28687”
From yesterdays trades
03-Feb-14 / 10:16:28 / 25.50 / 38,970
03-Feb-14 / 11:16:59 / 25.00 / 75,000
Note the times and dates.
The delayed trades that I have seen have the original times & dates of trade registered.
ps. it seems as if there was a slight delay of an hour or so.
Greenock Jack says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:04 pm
Eco
I’m not an investigative reporter so don’t hold your breath waiting on my first piece. 😆
As you know, good investigative reporters are very thin on the ground these days. There are various reasons for this with economic constraints and an increasing wish from the powerful to control or manage public opinion.
The growth sector regarding information has been PR (or spin) and this is poisoning society in a very negative and understated way. It is now acceptable corporate and political practise to not only artfully mislead clients and voters but to create mindsets which make the task easier.
======================================================
I agree with what you have said above. I don’t know if Phil has got this one totally correct or not but he has had the courage of his convictions and faith in his source/s and nit-picking doesn’t alter that.
All that actually matters is whether he has got the main thrust of his story correct or not and whether tiny bits of it are right or wrong means nothing in terms of the big picture. Yea I bet he wished the ground would open up yesterday and swallow him over the shares bloomer. It proves he is human – should he have checked it more closely? Of course he should have and nobody knows that better than him. But I have no idea how much pressure he was under perhaps meeting deadlines with unrelated stories.
I make no excuses for and make no criticism of that mistake because it is something that anyone could do – Embarrassing? Yes! Damaging to his reputation – I doubt it and it will be one his mates will have a laugh about when having a pint with him.
As I said I can’t think of a current SMSM journo who matches his investigative ability and that is a terrible indictment given that he lives in Ireland and isn’t actually based in Scotland. The Rangers story is the biggest business story to have broken in Scotland in years and it’s handed to generally idiotic sports hacks to bury because their editors want to keep the lid on things for many different reasons.
Obviously I accept that in today’s tweet Phil reveals a story that is impossible for the SMSM to run and I am sure you are well aware of the strictures about putting a business – any business – under when there is a possibility of it being saved because jobs are at risk. But that fact alone doesn’t justify the craven cowardice of the media on this subject since the days of DM and the partiality they have shown against Celtic on many many occasions.
I have absolutely no doubt that Rangers’ position is truly desperate and much worse than even I had conceived – I have posted recently on how it might limp on. But that was a couple of days ago and so much has apparently changed since then. I doubt if what’s happening today is much to do with being unable to raise cash in London recently btw.
I think something major has broken at Ibrox and Wallace has been stunned by it. He walks and the shares will be suspended I reckon otherwise the risk of a free-fall is obvious and the 1p shares could end up actually being traded at 1p or less. So tomorrow will be interesting but of course things might limp-on to get past market close of business on Friday. But if they reach that point then a helluva lot has to be decided and put in place by Monday if they are to survive even in the short term.
Things are looking very bleak for Ibrox and much worse than last time because there was a plan in place and Spivs waiting in the wings. I really doubt if there is anyone this time and all that is left is how to turn the properties into cash and skeedaddle without breaking the law.
However, like Phil, I have been wrong before and will be many times again. But I get it right more often than I get it wrong and as far as I can see so does Phil 😆
ianagain says: February 4, 2014 at 9:42 pm
The 28k buy was subject to delayed announcement. Definitely.
——————————————–
Confirmed by the list below. The middle trade of 75K shares yesterday at 11:16:59 is out of sequence
03-Feb-14 14:48:05 25.00 1,188 Sell* 25.00 26.50 297.00 O
03-Feb-14 13:34:19 25.49 195 Sell* 25.00 26.50 49.71 O
03-Feb-14 11:16:59 25.00 75,000 Sell* 25.00 26.50 18.75k O
03-Feb-14 12:14:25 25.49 1,905 Sell* 25.00 26.50 485.58 O
03-Feb-14 10:16:28 25.50 38,970 Sell* 25.00 26.50 9,937 O
Easyjambo -£18,750 rather than £28,000?
TSFM says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:36 pm
My information is that Phil is incorrect, but maybe my information is wrong (after all, Wallace isn’t my source). Caution will serve us better than a rush to believe what we want to believe.
If Wallace had resigned before 5pm today, my source tells me that it would have been announced immediately. if he resigns this evening, we will hear about it first thing tomorrow. Not long to wait and show some caution.
===============
Phil has stuck his neck out a very long way on this one. His credibility will take a very big hit if he has got it wrong. The 24m shares thing was just careless- this is the real deal.
We will know by 4pm Friday, because even if he has decided to walk away, the shareholders will surely have asked for a bit of time to allow a replacement to be announced. Ogilvie, anyone? Although he maybe can’t be spared from his vital Hampden role if the good ship Sevco is holed below the waterline.
I agree totally with your comments on Greenock Jack, by the way. The reflex flurry of TD’s, no matter what he posts, does this forum no favours at all.
Blu
Both deals combined 28.6K sterling.
Easyjambo
One insignificant deal (poundswise) appeared delayed by an hour or so. Other much bigger deals have been delayed by days.
TSFM
ONLY THOUGHTS COULD BE WHO IT WAS.
OTHER THAN THAT NO IDEA. STRANGE.
I think after Big Phil’s wee mistake yesterday he would have been very very careful about making sure of his ground today.
TSFM says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:36 pm
For the avoidance of doubt (I thought I had made it quite clear, but there you go) GW drew up a statement to announce his resignation.
That statement has yet to go out (obviously) that statement was to indicate to people in RIFC/TRFC that if he doesn’t get his way(and quickly) then he’s gone.
He’s already been talked out of going at least once (after the failed pay cut).
AJ
That looks to me to be an hour out of sequence. My inference upon reading the original claim of a delayed announcement was that the delay would be more than an hour and that the request suggested sophistry. However I am clueless on these things. What reasons would people have for a delay in the first place?
My contact told me tonight that it was perfectly possible that Wallace could resign, but that he could see no reason why. Tales of drawers stuffed with unpaid bills are ‘arrant nonsense’. He also told me that there were no spivs left at Ibrox (“at least in the boardroom” 🙂 ). The board comprises respectable and professional people, as are their advisors.
He also told me that the idea of a land grab by TRIFC would be spivvery, and therefore won’t happen. “The last of spivs running off with cash has gone”, he said. “Rangers definitely have serious financial problems, but they won’t result in administration.”
“There is still some deluded behaviour about the value of ‘the brand’, but by and large, the need for cutting costs has been recognised.”
“Administration serves no purpose, and is not necessary unless they are not paying tax and VAT, and I do not believe that.”
Greenock Jack says: February 4, 2014 at 10:05 pm
————————
I’m well aware of larger deals being delayed for days in some cases. I was merely supporting the point that the trade was delayed. Why it was delayed, and for as little as an hour or so, I haven’t a clue.
On the McMurdo blog, one thing is indisputable – he is definitely in the know. He’s not agitating for TBKs to make mischief. He is a board information outlet. I can’t see how blogging as he did tonight benefits anyone on the Rangers board. If Wallace is set to resign, why not just ignore the rumours and let the AIM announcement do the deed tomorrow?
TSFM says:
February 4, 2014 at 9:36 pm
My information is that Phil is incorrect, but maybe my information is wrong (after all, Wallace isn’t my source). Caution will serve us better than a rush to believe what we want to believe.
If Wallace had resigned before 5pm today, my source tells me that it would have been announced immediately. if he resigns this evening, we will hear about it first thing tomorrow. Not long to wait and show some caution.
======================================================================
Obviously I assume you meant it would have been announced on AIM if the resignation came before 5pm.
If the story is correct then the position of Somers is critical because I suspect that if Wallace goes then so would Nash and if Somers called it a day then there would be no execs left on the Board and – although I am finding it hard to believe this – only 1 NED in the shape of Easdale.
In that situation trading would have to be suspended. It might well be that discussions are necessary between the Nomad and AIM to try and ensure an orderly market in the shares and that might entail a bit of judicious timing like a possible delay until after close of business on Friday for resignations and a formal announcement on Monday morning to AIM.
If Wallace goes it could cause the shares to plummet and although AIM is very loth to suspend trrading I think it might need to act to protect the shareholders who might have a case against AIM if it did nothing.
This is obviously all speculation but if Wallace goes and Somers stays then there would be – I think – two Board members left in the shape of him and Easdale. I honestly can’t remember if Nash has been made a director or not or just filling in for Stockbridge as FD on a temp basis.
Of course Laxey, as is their wont, could stick two directors on asap to prevent a share suspension. They would then get on with the only real business left to do and that’s make money out of the assets. I’m not saying they have engineered this situation but it certainly would suit them.
We would then be back on track for my scenario the other day that King could rent the stadium after an administration to slash costs that King couldn’t be blamed for. Indeed he would be the long-awaited saviour although probably not a Sugar Daddy as expected.