After making inquiries into progress on Resolution 12 to the Celtic AGM of 2013 there is little doubt in my mind that the SFA made a serious error in the process of UEFA licensing.
Here are some facts:
- UEFA does not issue licences to clubs who have due tax bills outstanding,
- UEFA require the SFA to satisfy themselves of a club’s eligibility for a licence and that clubs have provided proof no overdue tax payable exists,
- UEFA also require a club to tell the SFA and UEFA if, after the issue of a licence there are material changes in their circumstances which would affect their eligibility – including the situation at #1 above,
- UEFA awarded Rangers a licence to play in European competition in March 2011,
- In May 2011 Rangers received a tax bill, which they did not contest or appeal or agree a payment plan. The bill (which remains unpaid) was overdue by 30 June 2011,
- UEFA received no notice of this,
- Rangers did not lose their licence and in fact competed in both the Champions’ League and The Europa League in that season.
None of these facts are disputed (as far as is known) by anyone connected to the saga. What is in doubt, because the SFA won’t answer the question, is whether they received a copy of the tax bill and the May letter that accompanied it from Rangers or not.
If they did send it to the SFA, Rangers could reasonably argue that they did their bit and the SFA fell down on the job by failing to notify UEFA of their new unfavourable tax status.
If Rangers did not send it, then they had broken not only UEFA FFP rules but more importantly the trust amongst SFA members that full disclosure is honestly made in a self-certification process. The SFA in not carrying out their monitoring responsibilities properly and using the powers UEFA FFP gave them also broke that trust.
In either case, there is a systematic failure by the SFA to administer the sport effectively; either through a failure of trust, a failure of administration – or both.
Even worse, in the four years that have elapsed since this incident, it seems that nothing has been done to put matters right. The SFA have been very active in refusing to answer questions on the matter, particularly this one;
“How will you prevent it happening again?”
Incredibly, up to now, no measures have been put in place to add rigour to the licensing process. Are they really saying that they think the process was carried out satisfactorily?
No they are saying nothing. Silence and denial, followed by silence and inaction.
So what is the point of this article? Let’s call out the elephant in the room right away – it is unequivocally not to have a go at Rangers. This is no longer really about Rangers at all, but about the SFA’s mal-governance of the game. Besides, clubs affected by this seeming failure on the part of the authorities (in that year Celtic, Dundee United and Hearts and Kilmarnock) are hardly likely to successfully sue a club now in liquidation (although small shareholders might take a different view with regard to the SFA’s conduct).
Nor am I seeking to find some retrospective punishment for the club (as far as I know sanctions are neither available retrospectively, nor useful in this case ) but to be aware that the question above urgently needs to be addressed if the status of football as a sport is to be maintained.
To the extent that this is about what has happened to Rangers, does anyone – no matter what club they owe their allegiance to – seriously consider that TRFC would NOT be in a better situation today had the SFA acted with propriety and applied their rules correctly in 2011/12?
With the kind of money on offer these days for entry into Europe, and the interdependent nature of the game, it seems fairly self-evident that trust is not enough to allow effective regulation, and that incompetent governance where money is the paramount consideration is unacceptable.
The SFA has long enjoyed a misconceived impression of its function as being that of a quasi-legal body, bestowing upon it a status of independence and aloofness from the partisan interest of the clubs. In the main, fans have largely bought into that myth. However the SFA is nothing of the kind.
It is in fact merely a cartel which is allowed to govern itself for its own benefit and is only accountable to the clubs that make up its membership, and not the fans. Check out the last sentences of almost any rule, where discretionary powers awarded to itself effectively render the rule worthless and unenforceable.
Literally, a nihilistic approach to governance
Maybe it is time the SFA scrapped the get out of jail discretionary clauses, and put some robust regulation in place to ensure the financial transparency of all clubs?
Even better, politicians are never slow to tell us of the importance of football to the social fabric of the country – in that case why not follow their own rhetoric, recognise that it cannot be allowed to self regulate in narrow self interest, and legislate to have football governed independently?
If I was a Rangers fan, I’d be thinking that the SFA’s failure to police the UEFA licencing issue helped accelerate the club’s demise – by making it easier to paper over the cracks.
If I was a Celtic, Hearts, Dundee United or Killie fan, well the consequences for them in terms of lost financial and competitive opportunities are fairly obvious.
Conclusion? The clubs can no longer be trusted to run the affairs of the industry themselves.
A new independent, accountable regulatory body (funded by the clubs) is the minimum we need to save the game in this country. It should comprise representatives of the clubs, the fans and other stakeholders – and it should have a holistic remit as its prime directive, whilst ensuring fair and equitable treatment of all clubs.
It can take decisions on the basis of what is good for the game without the baggage of self-interest, and without any west of Scotland institutionalised bias. Of course Scotland isn’t alone in this. Football is a powerful political force across the world, and as developments at FIFA over the past couple of years have demonstrated, it is institutionally corrupt. The clubs can no longer be allowed to run it as they see fit, and we need to begin a campaign which will ultimately convince the pay-at-the-gate fan of the truth of that.
The UEFA licensing issue is only a pebble in the sand of football incompetence and corruption, but it is a microcosm of what ails the game. The good of the sport, and not individual clubs, is paramount. The SFA cannot and will not deliver that.
The case for a new regulatory body is clear, and the status quo is not an option unless the death of the sport is deemed acceptable.
There is little doubt in my mind that unless regime change is effected, in a few decades there will be no regime .
tearsofjoy @ 3:52pm
Whilst agreeing with your sentiments and sharing your frustration I think we should be careful that we don’t inadvertently start slipping into outright hemispherism!
I been watching an online spat over the last few days between John James (@sitonfence) with John Stevens(@pjz_1).
Stevens has been claiming that JJ is a Celtic fan and will “out” him tomorrow, along with a number of personal details. (Let’s hope it doesn’t get that far). In his latest tweets he is also suggesting that JJ has indicated that he will shut down his blog.
John Stevens @pzj_1 · 19m19 minutes ago
It is my understanding that JJ has agreed to shut down his Blog Site before I blog. I have started the blog. But we will see…..#watching
John Stevens @pzj_1 · 15m15 minutes ago
For the avoidance of doubt I do not care if JJ Blogs. As long as it is not as a Rangers supporter which he is not
KT
Joubert’s behavior in the game as a whole was not acceptable – not for the first time. Of course it could just be coincidence that his behavior on these two important occasions I alluded to benefited S hemisphere teams.
woodstein on October 20, 2015 at 11:41 am
I have noticed when I split a log, it can be rotten inside, and all the slaters pour out?
———
Indeed. It happens. Otherwise you’ve lost me.
Btw, I referred to and posted your DR image & neepheid’s letter (with a mention of TSFM) on twitter. Clumps picked up on it, among others. So bravo!
easyJambo October 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm #
Might be a little more difficult now that @pjz_1’s twitter account has been suspended.
TallBoy Poppy October 20, 2015 at 6:16 pm #
easyJambo October 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm #
Might be a little more difficult now that @pjz_1’s twitter account has been suspended.
========================
I made a typo in my initial post … should have been @pzj_1 although the tweets I posted were from the correct source.
It’s an interesting one for the account to be suspended. I know that, a few days ago, JJ intended reporting Stevens to the authorities for hacking his personal information.
@easy, that John Stevens character’s account is live. Bizarre type. I have him blocked but unblocked to check. Strikes me as someone who lives on a street draped in union flegs and a photo of the queen over the mantelpiece 🙂
Danish Pastry
“Strikes me as someone who lives on a street draped in union flegs and a photo of the queen over the mantelpiece”
You mean you think he’s Prince Philip?
Danish Pastry October 20, 2015 at 5:57 pm #
Sorry DP a bit opaque, re your links to Thornhill.
Probably better as “turn over a rock and you never know what you might find.”
‘Gotcha!’ Woodstein, as a young American waitress said to me the other day.
Kind of embarrassing for the legal eagles to lose a case to his type.
Otherwise amazed to find an HD stream from the Sports Direct Sevcodrome on something called Sportsnet World which is part of my subscription. Not a huge crowd. Seems a pity the Falkirk v Hibs match wasn’t chosen. More of a contest, you’d think.
Latest: Bairns 0 Hibees 0; 5-Way Sevco 5088/Scotland 0 Tony Macaroni Arena XI 0 🙂
scottc on October 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm
FC United of Manchester leading the way again. Just like the living wage
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/fc-united-reject-bbc-request-6667241#rlabs=11%20rt$sitewide%20p$10
==================================================
That is a brilliant read.
TV has ruined top flight football in England and is doing its best to do the same in Scotland with the ridiculous kick off times.
Cup football is now a farce on both sides of the border, with games played weeks apart on some occasions, and the shambolic hunt the the draw.
It’s nice to see FC UoM making a stand for the match going supporter. Newcastle v NCFC at 4pm on Sunday anyone?
There is life in football though, and last week I took advantage of the international break to watch Barnet v Accrington Stanley (who are they? :-} ) in order to recomplete the English 92. There were plenty of other fans doing the same, and I bumped into a couple of other City fans and my Leeds supporting mate spotted another chap he knew from Elland Road.
As the article said, an insight into the matchday experience can easily be obtained by going to a match, preferably at 3pm on a Saturday or 7.45 midweek.
By the way Accrington Stanley are not related to either Accrington FC (the only founder members of the Football League no longer in existance) or the club of the same name that was in the league in the 60s. Needless to say, Sky TV managed to get it wrong during the 125 anniversary season, although that is not at all surprising as they have history of confusing clubs with similar names.
Veering back on topic to Scottish football, is there a 42 Club in Scotland?
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/131569351056/the-football-lifes-powerpoint-presentation-how
On everything
Well,I have absolutely no idea what I did except not remember which password I was using the other day to log in , but all day today I’ve been like a safe-cracker with the tumblers, trying every goddam password I’ve ever used, and getting thoroughly confused between wordpress name and password and blog name and password!
I eventually hit on the right combination, using a password which I had just recently (I thought) discontinued for a longer more secure one.
If I had had a tree branch available, I would have done to the lap-top what John Cleese did to the mini!
timomouse October 20, 2015 at 9:13 pm #
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/131569351056/the-football-lifes-powerpoint-presentation-how
On everything
====================================
There’s some interesting stuff in there.
However, I think that we need to get the SFA house in order before looking at what is going on in the leagues. It’s that conundrum about whether normal sport is posible in an abnormal society again.
Until this BBC web article, I hadn’t seen any suggestion as to what the Blatter-Platini payment was for, other than the vague “work I did for him” comments by Platini.
The BBC seems to be hinting that it might have been a payment to make Platini remove himself from challenging Blatter’s presidency last time round in 2011. That’s dynamite if it can be proven.
The Cat NR1 October 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm #
‘…… I think that we need to get the SFA house in order before looking at what is going on in the leagues. ..’
__________
That’s so very, very necessary.
The hugely disappointed, gutted Scotland rugby team and fans can at least take some comfort that , whatever the Mr Muir of international rugby did, Rugby ‘Governance’ is not suspected of any kind of fix. They can be sure that there were no little private dinners at which little guarantees about ‘outcomes’ might have been given.
Alas, the same cannot be said in respect of the Governance of football -at World, European, or, indeed, in some cases, National level.
I think this is the third season that I didn’t buy ‘the wee red book’.
A simple little example of the damage done to our game.
You want to know Who won what, and when? Or when was a club founded? No point in using the wee red book-or any other reference book which still carries the myth that TRFC are RFC.
That is a sore that lies, open and festering, poisoning the Football body.
Needs to be dealt with before we start on anything else, because if it is not fixed, the poison of ‘rigged sport’ will kill any love for and enjoyment of competitive professional football.
nawlite October 20, 2015 at 11:35 pm #
‘..The BBC seems to be hinting that it might have been a payment to make Platini remove himself ……’
____________
It would not, of course, be ‘BBC Radio Scotland’
‘Asked by BBC Sport about the payment and his future, before Thursday’s emergency meeting, Platini refused to comment. ‘
Get Dan Roan of BBC Sport up here to give the Sportsound chaps a training session on being ‘sports journalists’!
Oh! a wee post I made a minute or two ago referring to nawlite’s post about Platini, has gone in to ‘moderation’. It was just saying that Dan Sloan, of BBC Sport should come up and give the Radio Scotland Sportsound guys a wee training course on how to be journalists. That’s all!
Oh! a wee post I made a minute or two ago referring to nawlite’s post about Platini, has gone in to ‘moderation’. It was just saying that D Sloan, of BBC Sport should come up and give the Radio Scotland Sportsound guys a wee training course on how to be journalists. That’s all!
Just to say I’ve had a wee post commenting on nawlite’s post about a BBC Sport report put into (presumably) automatic moderation.
And a similar post , but with the removal of a chap’s first name that’s the short form of the name of the guy in the lion’s den, also put into moderation. I can’t see any other proscribed word or phrase.
It was only a comment to the effect that some sports journalists down south could teach our mob a thing or two about being ‘investigative’.
Oh, must be wee gremlins: the original post is now there!
I felt for a moment as any one of my wee granddaughters must feel when put on the ‘naughty step’!
Now they’re all there! Didn’t expect that, or I wouldn’t have kept posting. Sorry about that.
John Clark October 21, 2015 at 12:29 am
On the step a lot are they John? 🙂
John Clark October 21, 2015 at 12:07 am #
nawlite October 20, 2015 at 11:35 pm #
‘..The BBC seems to be hinting that it might have been a payment to make Platini remove himself ……’
____________
It would not, of course, be ‘BBC Radio Scotland’
‘Asked by BBC Sport about the payment and his future, before Thursday’s emergency meeting, Platini refused to comment. ‘
Get Dan Roan of BBC Sport up here to give the Sportsound chaps a training session on being ‘sports journalists’!
__________
And here we have the perfect example of what journalists are meant to do: ask the difficult, embarrassing questions and leave it to their readers to judge the interviewee who refuses to answer such questions- provided, of course, they are relevant to the matter at hand.
I notice, in his latest blog, John James is singing the praises of Keith Jackson, who is, apparently, becoming aware of King and others’ shortcomings. It would appear Jackson is frustrated at not being able to ask the pertinent questions of King. Well, if Jackson really wants to do the work of a journalist, why doesn’t he just contact the board and ask the questions that should be asked? Publish the answers, or publish the refusal to answer? He doesn’t have to speak to them face to face, or even by phone. He could send them a letter, or email, or – such old fashioned journalism – doorstep them.
Or, heaven forbid, use the power of the press and ask the questions publicly in his newspaper; and keep asking them until they are answered. Then, because only a selection of questions would be answered, keep publishing them until they are all answered, or write an article drawing conclusions from the questions answered and not answered.
Ever wondered how these ‘journalists’ can spend so much time on twitter? Couldn’t be to fill in the time between Ibrox/Level5 puff peices, could it?
The Cat NR1 October 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm #
‘…… I think that we need to get the SFA house in order before looking at what is going on in the leagues. ..’
__________
I certainly disagree with that sentiment. Whatever your opinion of the SFA, allowing your opinion on them to colour your opinion on changing things as a whole is backwards and would suggest that what you want is unachievable unless personalities change.
If you want to effect change, then it has to be done within the system, with a consensus and with mass interaction. You, I and everyone on here knows things aren’t perfect but it’s not possible to fix things or, more importantly, change the minds of vested interests by not engaging with the system as it is.
Ripping things up and starting again is an understandably seductive notion, but it is never going to happen. There are clubs who are perfectly happy with the current system as it gets them large supports and gets them access to European revenues and people expend far more energy attempting to combat that than in attempting to convince the multitude of very good people whom work within the SPFL and SFA.
The whole point of this site when it was set up three years ago post-RTC was to provide a forum for fans across all supports to hold authorities to account. Three years later and one has to ask – is holding the entire system to account really achievable?
I would say not.
Is working within the current system to create a broad based consensus to change things little by little possible? Definitely.
Simply to ask people “Give me ten achievable ideas each” will surely yield one that actually ends up being put into practice. That in itself will be as much success as the admirable aims of this site have ever achieved.
John Clark October 20, 2015 at 11:51 pm #
The Cat NR1 October 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm #
‘…… I think that we need to get the SFA house in order before looking at what is going on in the leagues. ..’
__________
That’s so very, very necessary.
The hugely disappointed, gutted Scotland rugby team and fans can at least take some comfort that , whatever the Mr Muir of international rugby did, Rugby ‘Governance’ is not suspected of any kind of fix. They can be sure that there were no little private dinners at which little guarantees about ‘outcomes’ might have been given.
————————————————————————
Well… you might be surprised what folks think. Not me, I hasten to add. Although I do think there are issues that require to be looked at on the basis of several matches held during this rugby world cup and more suitable protocols developed on that basis. Joubert I reckon is simply incompetent, the TMO from that Quarter final is the one I would like to be more thoroughly investigated….
Anyway Im rambling. There is a certain Welsh rugby forum I occasionally frequent, owing to there rather entertaining viewpoints on many things (they really don’t like the Irish national team!). On that page there were several posters suggesting just what you mention above. That there must have been pressure on Joubert to help out if an Argentina v Scotland semi was likely to happen. They have already lost England, what if they lost Ireland and Australia too?? They also look back at previous world cups and point out several referees performances that when looked at from a certain angle could be viewed as having a whiff of corruption about them.
I don’t subscribe to that viewpoint, incompetence, pressure (perhaps more so from the large tier 1 nations) and a skewed picture of events by fans are more to blame in my eyes, but there are many who don’t hold the RFU up as being the innocent organisation you suggest.
tayred October 21, 2015 at 8:34 am #
‘..On that page there were several posters suggesting just what you mention above. That there must have been pressure on Joubert to help out if an Argentina v Scotland semi was likely to happen. #
_______
It would be very,very sad and upsetting if the Administrators of the Rugby World Cup pressured a referee by threat or reward to produce a ‘required’ result.
I don’t suppose we’ll ever find out for sure unless Joubert were to tell us that that was the case. (If it was the case, he left it pretty late!)
League fixing,competition fixing, match-fixing, clubs covertly fielding ineligible players and lying about it, players betting against their own team in games in which they themselves are playing………
what rational person would not begin to despair of the world of ‘sport’?
timomouse October 21, 2015 at 8:33 am #
‘… Three years later and one has to ask – is holding the entire system to account really achievable?
I would say not.’
________
So, then, do we simply roll over and aid and abet in the propagation of the falsehoods, and let the guilty carry on as before-distorting the truth and killing the notion that there is any genuine belief in Sporting Integrity?
No, we keep at least annoying the sods and giving them no respite: we do not give them any kind of recognition by supposing that we can be diverted away from the now reeking elephant in the room.
Re Rugby.
The problem is that the rules of the game are bonkers in some instances.
The players are trained to react in the same way as a goalkeeper to a loose ball. They go to try and gather it up.
Therefore when Maitland is so close to a pass his natural and trained reaction is to try and intercept. Nothing deliberate and as such no Yellow card IMHO
Similarly in terms of the last penalty when the ball is getting bobbled around then all players on both side are trying to gain control. It drops into Welsh’s lap. Once again his natural and trained reaction, regardless of how the ball got to him, is to gets his hand on it and control it.
It can be argued that when you suspect you are in an offside position you should be more wary but in the height of battle the level of awareness drops and adrenaline takes over. On the rugby field the mass of bodies at some points must make players disorientated.
While football strikers generally can have a better view of play and try and drop back to avoid offside, imagine your striker receiving the ball when off side and the opposition were then awarded a direct free kick from say 20yds!!
I am wondering if some offenses need to be reviewed so that the equivalent of an indirect free kick can be awarded? Something more than a put in at the scrum but less than an attempt at three points. Teams would most likely just kick for touch, gain yardage and have the throw in at the line out. Maybe the penalty should be like American Football, designated yardage and possession via scrum of line out.
While I agree Joubert and the TMO should be getting a hard time people seem to forget that an Aussie try was called back for a knock on by the scrum half that was minimal and obscured by a maul. Nobody else in the stadium or in the commentary boxes even sniffed that one out. So in that case the ref and TMO were 100% correct.
The reality is if the Scots had just went for an earlier throw to the front and smothered the ball to run out the clock we would have gone through.
Like the football team v Poland the other week and the poor result v Georgia away it is the lack on concentration and making mistakes at critical times that separate some of our sporting endeavours from the top flight and make us look to refs and other results for assistance instead of controlling our own destiny.
My guess is however that Scottish Rugby under Vern Cotter will do something about that to try and improve for the next campaign.
Strachan, I’m not so sure about, but live in hope he has learned some lessons.
John Clark October 21, 2015 at 9:45 am #
Thats the problem. Once you know about the poor ethics of one sporting institution, you are already primed, as it were, to start doubting the others.
wottpi October 21, 2015 at 10:29 am
I believe a free kick was one of the potential awards the referee could have given. However, southern hemisphere referees especially are more loath to use “free kick” and instead go straight to a penalty for this and many other offences fro which I believe it is simply too harsh a ruling. Instinctive versus deliberate is hard to judge sometimes, and the rules make it very hard for referees – which brings us back to the role of the TMO…..
Any suggestion that Joubert’s call was in any way “a fix” is uncalled for IMHO.
Refereeing is a difficult job and that passage of play was chaotic. He made a bad call and the TMO protocols didn’t allow him to review it despite the fact that he’s seen it on the big screen and knows that it’s wrong (which is quite perverse really) .
Had the correct decision been made we were far from home and dry anyway. It would have been an Australian scrum in a dangerous position. The obvious play is a very kickable drop goal. Further, any scrum penalty is going to be just as easy as the one that was awarded.
The real issue is that Scotland, having gone ahead with 5 minutes to play did not have the composure or experience to run down the clock. In recent years we have rarely been in that position. There were at least three cock ups of our own in that period, some of which were down to choosing low percentage plays instead of the safe option. It was in our own hands and we blew it (although it’s nice to have a scapegoat and claim a moral victory).
tayred October 21, 2015
My understanding of a ‘free kick’ in rugby is that when the team awarded the penalty chooses to kick then they lose possession as it is either a free for all like a kick off or if the team kicks for touch they do not get to throw in therefore possession is lost. So while yardage and territory can be gained from the penalty, possession may be lost. That is why (without wanting rugby to become the NFL) I suggested yardage and possession be awarded as a compromise between the two extremes for certain ‘offenses’.
Regardless, it is a tricky one for the oval ball game to resolve being there does seem to be a good number of international games won by penalties scored after what I would deem minor offences as opposed to open attacking rugby.
zerotolerance1903 October 21, 2015 at 11:25 am #
Any suggestion that Joubert’s call was in any way “a fix” is uncalled for IMHO.
——————————————————————————
I agree, nobody here is suggesting that it was. We had the game in our hands and literally threw it away. My comment was more along the lines of, for example, we all have serious problems with the ethics displayed by the SFA, unfortunately that does have a knock on effect that it becomes much easier to whip up an atmosphere of doubt on other organisations that simply do not deserve it! Exactly what drives said Welsh forum to such levels of conspiratory discussions I don’t know.
What does come out of this is a clear picture that TV evidence while solving some dilemmas (goal/no goal being clear), it muddies the water on some areas and creates new dilemmas that weren’t even a problem before.
Joubert made the huge mistake of running off the pitch – that has unfortunately laid him open to accusations which I agree are undeserved.
wottpi October 21, 2015 at 11:43 am
They can do what they wish with the free kick – its clean possession tap and run, create attacking ruck and away they go. In essence they gain 10 metres as the defending side has to withdraw. But you are right, if they kick to touch the throw reverts to the other side.
I think that a team can convert the free kick to a scrum? Not absolutely sure. A scrum in that position is a potent weapon, although we were doing better in the scrum (not convinced always legally though! Scrums are a mystery to me, despite playing flanker for years!)
Which is why I don’t understand the instant clamour for millions to be spent on goal line technology, football’s equivalent of TMO and so forth.
In modern times we have a situation for so-called big games where highly advanced instantaneous tv coverage is already available for pennies that allows a situation where every fan in the ground can watch a replay, but only the referee can’t. That is patent nonsense.
I’ve never bought into the notion that it is unfair on the “big” club since the little one doesn’t get the same coverage. Surely its better to be right maybe 40% of the time (and 100% right in the, by definition more important, big games) for the big decisions such as the goal line calls for negligible outlay than persist with the present situation which will only get worse.
My only concern would be that it would make the referees in the big games lazy.
Smugas October 21, 2015 at 12:03 pm #
But…. even with the TMO in rugby, some decisions remain purely personal viewpoints. Maitlands knock on and subsequent yellow card being a prime example. If you asked all the World Cup referees to judge based on the TV pictures, I’d bet you not all would offer a yellow as their outcome.
Some days I think its a good idea, some days I don’t, but its not a cure-all.
Oh absolutely Tayred which is why I propose spending zero (since Sky have done it already) and fixing the biggest black and white calls first – lampards non goal against Germany in the WC always being the one that is cited since I think someone calculated that within 3 secs something like (I forget the figures now but say) 1bn knew that it was a goal and only the referee was allowed to be kept in the dark.
Yes there is then a debate about to what extent you use it to be had – I saw mention of the Griffith handball in the cup semi the other day for instance – where do you start and stop with open play decisions, but that’s not a reason to ignore the already available in situ evidence on hand for the big black and white calls.
I’m pleased to see that John James’ spat with John Stevens appears to have been resolved with the latter now accepting that the person he was going to “out” was not JJ.
JJ has posted a comment this morning on one of his own blog posts re JS’ and others’ efforts to silence him.
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/20/hoisting-king-by-his-own-petard/
It is a sad reflection on today’s online community that there are some who will seek to silence the right to free speech of those whose views are not shared with themselves.
The whole Rangers saga that has played out in the last decade has largely facilitated such bigoted, sectarian, partisan, factional and malicious views and actions.
I can’t wait for the day that those who indulge in such acts are brought to account, but I can’t see that happening for several years yet.
More power to the SFM mods to keep this site free from the worst of the miscreants.
timomouse October 21, 2015 at 8:33 am #
The Cat NR1 October 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm #
‘…… I think that we need to get the SFA house in order before looking at what is going on in the leagues. ..’
__________
I certainly disagree with that sentiment. Whatever your opinion of the SFA, allowing your opinion on them to colour your opinion on changing things as a whole is backwards and would suggest that what you want is unachievable unless personalities change.
If you want to effect change, then it has to be done within the system, with a consensus and with mass interaction. You, I and everyone on here knows things aren’t perfect but it’s not possible to fix things or, more importantly, change the minds of vested interests by not engaging with the system as it is.
Ripping things up and starting again is an understandably seductive notion, but it is never going to happen. There are clubs who are perfectly happy with the current system as it gets them large supports and gets them access to European revenues and people expend far more energy attempting to combat that than in attempting to convince the multitude of very good people whom work within the SPFL and SFA.
The whole point of this site when it was set up three years ago post-RTC was to provide a forum for fans across all supports to hold authorities to account. Three years later and one has to ask – is holding the entire system to account really achievable?
I would say not.
Is working within the current system to create a broad based consensus to change things little by little possible? Definitely.
Simply to ask people “Give me ten achievable ideas each” will surely yield one that actually ends up being put into practice. That in itself will be as much success as the admirable aims of this site have ever achieved.
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Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic will still us with the Titanic but with the deckchairs moved about.
We’ve only just undergone a restructuring, which has finally brought all the senior clubs under one roof.
Dumping the split or playoffs so soon after that change is more likely to alienate rather than attract potential fans as the product will appear to be ephemeral in nature. However, there is no problem with discussing potential changes in theory, as any solution would have to be a long term one, rather than a knee jerk reaction to today’s dysfunctional “journey” obsessed situation. If a long-term solution can be arrived at, it will remain a long-term solution so there will be no immediate necessity to implement it.
However, if there were a root and branch reform of governance through a complete deconstruction and planned reconstruction of the SFA, there would be the possibility of phasing in a permanent new league structure that should be viewed as part of the long term future of the game going forward.
However, I can’t see there being any acceptable change until the Ibrox Franchise situation is resolved. There are too many conflicted parties, either through their involvement in the 5 WA or some other involvement with the Ibrox Franchise for that to happen.
Reading neepheid’s letter to the Daily Record about a, ahem, factual inaccuracy in the article in the edition on 25th September 2015; the Daily Record’s response on 19th October 2015 referring to a “clarification over this point in our regular page 2 column on Saturday” and the Corrections And Complaints section of the Daily Record on, presumably, 17th October 2015 led me to think that this might not be such a little victory as it appears at first blush.
Am I alone in thinking that this helpful exchange opens the door to further inquiry?
On 13th June 2012 the same publication, in an article by someone called Jim Traynor (whatever happened to him?) published:
“Rangers FC as we know them are dead. It’s all over. They are about to shut down for ever…No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died…”
It would be helpful if the Daily Record could be asked to confirm if these statements of fact are accurate or inaccurate.
If accurate written confirmation would be helpful.
If inaccurate confirmation of where and when the clarification was published would be equally helpful.
Similar enquiries could be directed to any and every other publication and news outlet in the country but given the Daily Record’s newfound spirit of glasnost it would seem to be as good a starting point as any.
I agree entirely. Until the last curtain falls on the Ibrox pantomime, then nothing regarding Scottish football governance can be resolved.
Perhaps King will finally find the key to his enormous warchest, all court cases will be resolved to the satisfaction of Chris Jack/Radar Jackson, and next season the fun can begin in earnest, as revenge is exacted on its enemies by the new Barcelona, lead by a man in a magic hat.
Or maybe not.
Maybe a few years of litigation while the hoodie crows squabble over the road kill. Meanwhile drip feed funding from Ashley, the man in the magic hat goes back to Englandshire, where warchests really exist and actually have keys.
Or Ashley just walks away, insolvency results, the SFA compromises again to keep some sort of “Rangers” show going?
I’m sure there are other scenarios, but none of them involve root and branch reform of the SFA. I just don’t see it ever happening. The clubs are in control, and they simply do not want it. Ogilvie’s coronation in 2013 made that crystal clear.
Test
BP, It was me that offered Jim a lift. I have emailed you.
Hope the Perth meeting goes well for all who are attending – I’m sure it will. My current work schedule rules it out for me but hopefully I may be able to attend something similar in future if it happens.
I look forward to hearing how it goes.
Auldheid also!
Can it really be the case that the last post on here was at 2.00am? Or that there have only been 2 posts since 7.42pm last night? Both by Causaludendi? What’s going on?
Neepheid, you just beat me to it. Hope you all have a successful night tonight. Wish I was going. Any other thoughts BP about a Hoosewarmin’ ?
fisiani October 19, 2015 at 9:40 am
Although not officially connected with Celtic, many had suspicions about now-defunct Celtic Nation:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/28/gilford-park-celtic-nation-kevin-lynch
neepheid October 22, 2015 at 1:16 pm #
Can it really be the case that the last post on here was at 2.00am? Or that there have only been 2 posts since 7.42pm last night? Both by Causaludendi? What’s going on?
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Are they all here?
Site is now back and hopefully fully functional. Anyone who had to change their password over the last few days have to do it again I am afraid, but we now all of the old PMs and everthing else restored.
Mail with any difficulties.
I have some not earth-shattering, but important news on the ownership of Rangers’ assets which I will bring to the meeting tonight. Looking forward to seeing you all there.
We are expecting 25 people, and have catered for that many, however anyone wishing to come and pay at the gate so to speak will also be welcome.
We have just about broken even on the ticket sales, but donations to support the event have seen us make about £100 overall 🙂
neepheid October 22, 2015 at 1:16 pm # Can it really be the case that the last post on here was at 2.00am? Or that there have only been 2 posts since 7.42pm last night? Both by Causaludendi? What’s going on? ——————————————————-
Are they all here?
Edit whoops no idea where the attachment in the above came from but it was this one (above) for about 35 minutes.
Gremlins?
Bit of a movie theme going on?
An seamless transition back. Thanks all. I near said to where we belong.
Just wanted to wish you all an enjoyable, productive evening in St John`s Toun .
I shall be toasting you with a cheeky wee Spanish Rioja !
Just to wish everyone lucky enough to be able to attend tonight’s soiree a very enjoyable evening. I look forward to reading all the gossip, and to hear if Big Pink actually looks like the bloke in his avatar
If he does, will someone tell him to take off his sunglasses as only a plonker would wear them indoors
There has been speculation where certain assets would find themselves depending on certain outcomes. One place I haven’t seen mentioned is in the hands of the crown.
Coupled with the cashback for communities scheme, I can definitely see some community benefits…..Especially for Murray Park.
http://www.gov.scot/Topics/archive/law-order/organised-crime/soc/Proceedsofcrime
I see UEFA, the association that sat back taking no action when one of their member associations were allowing a tax dodging club to walk all over them, and, at the same time, appear in a UEFA competition while not fulfilling the fiscal requirements that UEFA set (officially) such store by, are taking action against Man City because their fans dared to boo the UEFA ‘anthem’ at last night’s Champions League match.
Imagine that, with all the genuine problems of crowd behaviour that UEFA should be dealing with, they are so very quick off the mark to discipline a club for their fans daring to boo! Oh, and I believe they also turned their backs as the ‘anthem’ played!
Apparently, the City fans are angry with UEFA for the way travelling fans for their game against CSKA were treated by that august body. As a punishment to CSKA for racism, the match was made closed doors, but not before many City supporters had forked out to travel, then, to add insult to injury, some 600 CSKA fans were allowed entry while no City fans were allowed the same treatment.
I’d say the City supporters should be applauded for their muted response.
Nawlite you have PM, 19:2O as suggested?
All the best with the social event tonight.
Is there any chance of providing photos or podcast after ? Put some faces / voices to names, if agreeable.
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Re: the rugby controversy.
As a kid at school I was forced to play rugby for 6 years, and whilst I enjoyed it, my first love was footie. It was only when weekend kick-off times started to clash that my Dad asked the Headie to excuse me from rugby: he was told I either played rugby, as per the school rules…or I find another school ! Such enlightened times then…not !
But what has stuck with me all these years was an appreciation of what a proper, true team game rugby is, and prima donnas are not suffered. Playing in freezing mud was character building and I also liked the etiquette that even if your own team is humped at home, you still formed 2 lines to clap your opponents off the field. And then you had tea and cakes together after the match. Very civilised.
Over the last 3 years I have been shocked at the exposure of the level of corruption in Scottish football, and hope to God that rugby never falls that far.
Big Pink
Good luck this evening. I hope it is a useful event for all attending. Sorry I’ll miss it but nothing to add since current blog was published.
There is a saying that a society is as sick as it is secret. Boy did the author know what he was talking about.
Just want to wish everyone attending tonight’s get together a safe journey and hope you all have a great wee evening.
Will have a beer with you around kick off time – Cheers
BP & Auldheid; did you receive my email? They appear to have been lost in the changeover as they aren’t showing in my box as having been sent / existed?! ??
I too will be offering a toast with a cheeky wee Spanish Rioja. I’m still in Scotland obviously but it seems as good an excuse as any!
Things don’t seem to be getting any better, do they. Just read a twitter exchange between Auldheid and some guy, Gerry McCulloch. Is he some kind of hack? The guy seems quite pleased with himself and his ignorant stance, excusing himself for his lack of interest in Auldheid’s Resolution 12 documentation. In fact, he’s not even offering an excuse for his laziness, content just to provide ammunition for Auldheid’s detractors. Apparently an hour of his time is too much for him to give up to read Auldheid’s evidence laden document! If he is a ‘journalist’, he’s a fine example of what we despise in their ranks.
As ever, in such situations, the detractors are unable to disprove the content, they just attack the bearer of the message. The level of ignorance is quite astounding!
Allyjambo 22nd October 2015 at 7:15 pm # Things don’t seem to be getting any better, do they. Just read a twitter exchange between Auldheid and some guy, Gerry McCulloch. Is he some kind of hack?
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No he “works” for “Super” scoreboard.
Has a journalist profile in the usual places.
I remember sending away for an ABC minors badge. Didn’t make me a film critic.
And talking of SFA change…there is an interesting and dismissive article from a Marina Hyde about the lack of real choice for change at the upcoming FIFA elections.
]
“…some monstrous @rsehole from the Bahraini royal family presenting himself as a change candidate?
The monstrous @rsehole in question is Sheikh Salman bin Ebrahim al-Khalifa, whose ascent to football primacy has been a classic riches-to-riches story. Wondering what he might have achieved had he not been held back by his connections is one for another day. He can only play it as it lays, and Sheikh Salman currently declares himself under increasingly heavy pressure to stand as a candidate in Fifa’s presidential election…”
[This online Guardian article extract was censored for any delicate Internet Bampots !
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/21/sheikh-salman-bahrain-fifa-presidency
STICKY:
I have sent out emails with tickets (from my personal email address) to everyone who is coming along to the meeting tomorrow.
If you do not receive a ticket for any reason, let me know by PM or email me at bigpink@sfm.scot
If the correct number of tickets is not oriented on your email, contact me also.
Any small flaws in the system are down to our recent outage. I expect no problems of substance, but let me know anyway just in case.
A couple of housekeeping points:
ianagain 22nd October 2015 at 8:28 pm #Allyjambo 22nd October 2015 at 7:15 pm # Things don’t seem to be getting any better, do they. Just read a twitter exchange between Auldheid and some guy, Gerry McCulloch. Is he some kind of hack?
————————————No he “works” for “Super” scoreboard.Has a journalist profile in the usual places.I remember sending away for an ABC minors badge. Didn’t make me a film critic.
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did Gerry McCulloch not have previous
. . . He used to flog cheap crap on a TVs auction channel
. . . By telling the gullible that the cheap copies of whatever – were the genuine article
a bit like working on Clyde SSB
. . . Pretending to the ‘listners’ that Sevco (the cheap copy) are the same as the original Rangers – (but they are being Liquidated)
Thanks to BP and all who attended tonight. I had to leave early. Nice to put faces to names. Hope to meet up again.
Testing. (Very I’ve been told)
That’ll be a fiver for looking after your website Mister.
Ally jambo
Gerry McCulloch had been on a wee bit of a minor moral crusade suggesting Celtic were hiding something about the real nature of the injury to Simunovic .
Gerry was one of the 13 or so “journalists” who were sent the documents that Rangers Administrators failed to provide Harper MacLeod. You may remember the exercise last Sept where SFM contributors printed hard copy and posted it.
I asked Gerry if he had received any package to which he replied he did not want any “packages” so I offered to e mail him the files.
He said he did not have the time and hinted I think that I wanted the issue to take over his life as it appeared to have mine. Cue arrival of blue hue and crys all making the same point on Twitter.
His response showed Gerry as another Hollow Man a Toom Tabard making empty noises. I was disappointed as I thought there was more to him but he could not find an hour to check out the narrative. I have wondered if Radio Clyde is in some magnetic moral vortex where those who work in it lose their moral compass, but of course it is their living peddling trivia so why should they show any interest in anything serious?
It is however an illustration of what we are up against in addressing serious matters. If football is the turkey then the media is the stuffing and neither fancy the Christmas oven.
Thoroughly enjoyed the get together tonight – thanks to BP, Jim Craig and all to whom I spoke. Gutted with Celtic result which I found out 10 minutes ago – deleting that recording will free up some hard drive space…..
As for Mr McCulloch – dearie me. As Auldheid said, I thought he had something about him but clearly we overestimated him….
Thanks to everyone who turned up tonight at Perth. We were well looked after at McDiarmid, and it was great to see everyone there.
It was particularly humbling to see some people had travelled a long way with an overnight stay.
The passion in the room was very tangible and I hope you all enjoyed the experience as much as I did.
Thanks too to Jim Craig for his time and for imparting some wisdom and some cheery anecdotes from a very different Scottish football era.
I think that the evening was a success, and gives me cause to think we should do it again.
Big Pink ……. Please do, gutted I couldn’t make it tonight, so happy it was a success
Well, that’s me home from Perth ( well, at 12.03 a.m actually) after a lovely night drive with bright moon and hardly another car on the road all the way home to south Edinburgh. The pylons(piers?) of the new Forth crossing look absolutely fabulous, lit up like Christmas trees.
It was a very pleasant, relaxed, friendly gathering of pretty clued-up posters on, and readers of, the blog.
Due tribute was paid to Ryan Gosling for his splendid idea that a gathering should take place ( I don’t think he was there, though).
As bidden in our printed-off email invitations,we all wore full-face masks and those little electronic thingies attached to the throat which made us all sound like Darth Vader, and with the bright pink SFM kaftans and open-toed sandals, we all looked like each other as well.
No, strike that last para.Might have been something in that tea!
Seriously, it was extremely useful to be able to put faces to names, and to confirm from those faces that we are all actual, real people whose love of the sport fires their anger at the way the long-term cheating of one club was allowed to take place over many years, and was not openly and honestly dealt with when the reasons for, and the means of, that cheating became known ( thanks initially to RTC ),
and we are people generally who can separate honest- to- God football rivalry from tribal baggage and who simply want the truth about the ‘rigging’ that went on to accommodate a new club and that still allows it to claim to be the same entity that is still in Liquidation.
There are, of course, many areas of dissatisfaction with the Governance of our football which need exploration and discussion , ranging from the lack of success of the national team down to the price of pies, but these are overshadowed by the knowledge that our authorities at a critical point chickened out of doing their duty by the Sport and put other, baser considerations first.
Our individual clubs who, of course, make up ‘the authorities’, must insistently be reminded that that wrong must be righted in the appropriate manner, or they will forever be regarded as little more than assorted crooked business-men exploiting the public by running a rigged sport, where sporting principles give way to profit.
I hasten to add that that is not in any way a ‘Note ‘ of tonight’s proceedings, except in the very, very, very broadest sense of being my view of the drift of conversation and discussion.
Our genial host did not wear his sunglasses. And Jim Craig made some relevant and trenchant observations, as well telling a few humourous stories.
A lovely evening altogether.
The Hearts Shareholders Association also met tonight for one of their regular dinners. Ann Budge was in attendance and participated in a Q&A. She was asked the following:
Q. With Franz Beckenbauer being investigated, the FIFA scandal, the SFA structure and it’s cronyism etc., What do you think should be done?
A. It needs a complete change, tinkering won’t make any difference and it needs a major overhaul.
I wasn’t there so I’m unsure if she was referring to the SFA specifically or the Football authorities in general. We can but live in hope.