A Guest blog by @heavidor:
Given The Takeover Panel’s success in procuring a Court of Session order to compel Dave King to make an offer for all Rangers International Football Club Plc shares not owned by the Concert Party it would be impossible for King to remain a director unless he complies with that Order.
The co-option of Barry Scott to the board and the elevation of Alistair Johnston as a person with significant control could be construed as repositioning, however it will be whether King makes an offer of 20 pence per share to all the shareholders not included in the Concert Party or not that will determine what happens next and we shall know later this month.
(King resigning) is the correct thing to do and should have already occurred. Instead, Rangers financial reputation has been dragged through the mud by association.
Irrespective of whether King complies with the Court Order or not this story is far from over, and it will continue to hamper Rangers’ prospects until it is conclusively resolved. A King resignation as a director of RIFC would reduce the prospect of contaminating the club, its directors and advisors from the full effect of cold shouldering should he decline to make an offer.
That would mean that King, as distinct from RIFC, had financial pariah status and not the club. That is the correct thing to do and should have already occurred but, instead, Rangers’ financial reputation has been dragged through the mud by association with King.
What should not be underestimated is the reality of cold-shouldering, not for just the offending party, but for those involved in business with the offending party. The consequences are dire for the individual or organisation who falls foul of the rules, making it impossible to carry out normal business activities within the sphere of influence of The Panel, and the same consequences face those who shelter the cold shouldered.
It should be appreciated that there are members of the RIFC that are members of regulated financial professions who would be further prejudiced through association with a cold shouldered non-resident King.
Perhaps unfortunately for a large slug of the mainstream media and football authorities, financial pariah status pursuant to cold shouldering in the UK coming on top of criminal convictions in SA would be impossible to spin in any positive way or to maintain continued fit and proper status. I mean, we could have the SFA cold shouldered, couldn’t we? All said though, the cognitively dissonant will carry on regardless.
If King does the right thing by resigning from the board, it is still important to appreciate that the ‘4 Bear’ Concert Party as determined by The Panel will continue to exist irrespective of how Kings deals with the instruction to make an offer for the shares. This is the elephant in the room that remains.
The Concert Party via their shares and loans will retain the same level of control they currently have, and therefore remain compelled to abide by The Panel’s rules.
King’s resignation would not remove that impediment.
It doesn’t end there. By challenging the authority and insulting the intelligence of The Panel and the Court, King has ensured all large share transactions in RIFC will be scrutinised and questioned and could additionally determine, for example, that the Concert Party is increased to include Club 1872 and Barry Scott on the basis they are working in concert with King and/or other concert party members.
There are some who think that The Panel has been slow to respond and impose sanctions and that they are all bark and no bite. It would be wrong to think so. The reality is that King has moved the whole dispute into uncharted territory. There has been no precedent for such continued brazen and naïve flouting of Panel rules. Accordingly, The Panel has chosen to move at its own pace, dotting the ‘i’s and crossing the ‘t’s and I suggest they’re being methodical rather than indecisive in dealing with the estimable Mr King.
The true value of RIFC shares was a key point in the recent court case with all kinds of claims being made. Some think that the lack of significant arm’s-length trades makes it impossible to arrive at a correct price, and others say that the price paid to Mike Ashley in recent trades is the benchmark. In my opinion, neither is correct. Current and prospective shareholders have the financial figures in the accounts to work with, and can determine the real worth from there. On that basis it is clear to me the shares are not worth anything like the last alleged trading price on Jenkins. Rather it seems that the shares only have nominal value given the business has never declared a profit, continues to lose money and is reliant upon ongoing shareholder loans to stay in business.
Any subsequent share issue – even with King gone – could muddy the waters further; The Concert Party members may expose themselves to another Panel instruction to make another offer should any of its members acquire more shares without coming to an arrangement with The Panel beforehand.
To illustrate such an arrangement, Dermot Desmond got Panel permission to increase his shareholding above 29.9% the last time Celtic had a share issue. This is preferable to trying to hoodwink the financial authorities with tall tales.
It should be clear to all followers of RIFC’s financial travails that the status quo is unsustainable. So, the question is ‘what’s next’? The chairman’s statement that accompanied the annual accounts once more talked about loan to equity conversion without reference to the impact of the existence of a Concert Party amongst the RIFC Board of directors and providers of loans. This is remarkable any such conversion cannot take place without the permission of The Panel and/or without dragging the other directors and lenders in the quagmire with another possible offer for the shares not owned by the Concert Party.
.. the shares only have nominal value given the business has never declared a profit, continues to lose money and is reliant upon ongoing shareholder loans to stay in business
So, what should happen and what is required for RIFC to rid itself of this terrible yoke? The answers are pretty obvious; King should make an offer of 20 pence per share to all those shareholders not included in the Concert Party. He has said the shares are worth more than that and that no one would accept. If he’s correct he has nothing to worry about and he would create a clear path forward for Rangers. He would also resolve the dispute with The Panel, creating the conditions for a debt to equity conversion.
So, why might that not happen? Because if the shares are worth 27 pence as the directors have suggested that means the loan to equity conversion would have to be at the same price and, of course, if the shares not worth anything like that there would be a rush to accept 27 pence and the ball would be on the slates, so to speak.
It appears to me the board is stuck between a rock and a hard place, that King will resign, and that there will be no offer.
If this happens the position would be precarious. The current board doesn’t have the credibility, money or experience to take Rangers forward. Being a true blue should not be the defining characteristic of what’s required to make Rangers competitive but it appears to be the preferred qualification of most of their customers.
I believe Rangers need a need owner with a controlling shareholding and deep pockets to sort out this mess, and I have reason to believe this view is shared by some of those with influence.
That is not to say that a solution is imminent, but the reality check is at least a start.
A musing on the transfer dealings at ibrox.
( This is also true for other clubs too in many ways !)
Many deals are structured with add ons such as
.. a league appearances
.. goals,
… caps.
Further the player may have clauses in his contract on a similar basis (increased wage after X league appearances or starts)
This is why there can on occasion be seemingly strange decisions on selection. i.e GK only playing cup matches. A player in form seemingly always starting on bench.
IT seems At Ibrox these things are in full flow at the moment, as money is too toght to mention. (At other times i am aware of other clubs doing the same).
Examples seemingly being MAtt Gilks 2017 League cup ties only, no league appearances. And there is something very weird with micheal ohalloran too!
Back to lurking mainly.
Buddy
weescotsman,
That’s brilliant to hear. Like yourself I often feel overwhelmed with main posters on here. From my own point of view I feel like a fringe player. When the big news stories break I take a back seat and defer to who know more than I do.
But I’m excited about the new music forum. It’s obvious there are a lot of folk like you who like football and music. But I’m also very nervous because this new venture for SFM will be annoying the hell out of a lot of my heroes on here.
But it will be short lived until the forum is established. Then the main blog will get back to normal.
I’m going over to see Gun now in the forum. Keep posting mate you’ve got what it takes.
Christyboy and Paddymararkey,
The Ernie B thread is now redundant. Please go to:
Forums
Forum<Erniebeechat
Music tastes on SFM
(Some great stuff on there tonight from GUN)
Deloitte Football Money League 2018: Rising Stars – Published January 2018
Welcome to the 21st edition of the Deloitte Football Money League in which we profile the highest revenue generating clubs in world football.
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-sbg-dfml2018.pdf
Deloitte Football Money League 2018: Rising Stars – Published January 2018 …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cUZ3YHeTEs“FC Zenit St Petersburg were the only club to feature in last year’s top 20 from outside one of the ‘big five’ leagues and this year they miss out having failed to qualify for the Champions League.”
Final post of the night.
Buddy Holly. If you don’t make an appearance on the new Music Forum soon I will never forgive you for shaming your namesake.
Forums
Forum<erniebeechat
Music Tastes on SFM
See you there mate. Tomorrow.
jimboJanuary 22, 2018
Carfins finest.My mother was from Carfin! My granny lived in Newarthill Road 2 minutes from the Grotto. I could tell you a million stories my friend.
============
Carfin man all my days. Grotto is in wonderful condition nowadays and is well worth a visit from anyone of any faith or none. Chances are I will know your Mothers family and will probably be able to verify any of your million stories.
I see today’s Daily Record is screaming for Stewart Regan’s head on a spike. Looks like Regan’s only hope is another insolvency event at Ibrox in order to get the media lined up behind him again.
Jimbo,
last night you posted a piece about the history of Celtic, Hibs.
In your account it sounds like CFC started a movement which was then copied in Edinburgh and Dundee.
I call on you to revise the timeline please to give appropriate and massive credit to Hibernian FC.
We talk on this blog all the time about respecting history. This applies to the 19th century too.
Yours respectfully,
pete
To be honest – pretty chilled re the friendlies on the other side of the Atlantic.
It is was it says on the tin. A friendly
As others have pointed out it may be that certain players from certain clubs have important Euro ties at the same time.
We have enough players in an around the squad, who won’t be involved in such matches, to put out a team so let them go and get an opportunity. Patterson at Cardiff for example.
Chill pill required, on this one methinks.
I liked tiki-toki for the timeline.
I started one some time ago, but got no traction/interest. YOu can set it up to allow only certain people to contribute and attach links to the relevant documentation
https://www.tiki-toki.com/
https://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/602391/An-Insolvency/
wottpiJanuary 23, 2018 at 09:37
I think there’s a wee bit more to be discussed than how it might affect the clubs hopeful of participating in Europe, such as Why? Why would an FA, that can’t afford to outbid a much smaller FA for their main management target, spend thousands of pounds on a trip to South America to play matches featuring very much fringe players? While it may very well be in the interests of our opponents to play against a team from Europe, what could be the possible advantage for Scotland? On the other hand, I can see the benefit to those who run the SFA – an all expenses paid trip to a part of the world they probably would never otherwise have the opportunity to visit.
After everything we’ve witnessed them do over the past 6 years (and so much more we didn’t witness previously), for the benefit of two clubs, can anyone doubt that they would be so self serving as to organise a ‘tour’ for their own benefit? And while the players are pounding it out on the training field, they will be doing what? Certainly nothing that any of us here would recognise as work, with organising the dates for any possible return matches in Scotland the closest to work they’d get. They’d cock that up, too.
The Deloitte money list makes for depressing reading if you’re a supporter of a team who doesn’t play in one of the ‘big five’ leagues. They are facing an even greater challenge to play in these competitions as it’s being made deliberately more difficult for them to qualify.
It looks to me as if the big European teams are using CL and Europa League income to keep pace with the amounts made by the English teams from their broadcast deals. The English Championship is the third most watched league in Europe, ahead of La Liga, Seria A and Ligue 1. With increased broadcast deals there as well, parachute payments from the EPL and many foreign owned teams, you have some very rich clubs there too.
A European super league has been created and those involved are only going to get more aggressive in future to protect their place in it. Guaranteeing income for them and throwing scraps or nothing to the rest. Surely now is the time for a separate competition for the teams outside the ‘big five’ leagues?
From 2004 to 2007 teams from Denmark, Sweden and Norway competed in a competition called the Royal League. It was not very successful… but, but if you expanded that format to include the countries left behind by the CL/Europa league you might have a pretty decent competition.
You could call it the Atlantic League or something like that.
1. Rich list. It would help if a team from each league could qualify for the European Cup as league winners, UEFA cup as runners up, Cup winners cup as cup winners and one could even add another two levels acknowledging that there are a lot of teams in Europe. Play off series between the winners at year end?
2. Early season starting too early? See 1 above.
Why can’t it happen? A few big teams might not get to hoover up all the money and that would be tragic, I mean imagine if Manyoo couldn’t afford 500k a week for a CF? Armageddon methinks.
Okay it may just be my inability to work modern technology, but where is the link to the forum that Jimbo and co are mentioning? I can’t seem to find it.
Cowanpete January 23, 2018 at 08:32
Jimbo, last night you posted a piece about the history of Celtic, Hibs. In your account it sounds like CFC started a movement which was then copied in Edinburgh and Dundee. I call on you to revise the timeline please to give appropriate and massive credit to Hibernian FC. We talk on this blog all the time about respecting history. This applies to the 19th century too. Yours respectfully,
pete
========================
I initially read Jimbo’s post in the same way as you did, but he didn’t actually say that Hibernian or Dundee Hibernian post dated Celtic.
For the record, Hibs were formed in 1875, 13 years before Celtic, and following early success, including winning the cup in 1887, they lost their best players to the young upstarts from the West (’twas always thus), which indirectly led to a downward spiral that ended up with them folding in 1891. They emerged from abeyance in 1893 and they rest is history. I use the term abeyance as this was an unicorporated association which did indeed fold and was restarted under a new committee.
It is interesting to also look at the how the reformed club started. The following is an extract from the Scotsman, dated 22 October 1892. You will note that they decided that the club would be non-sectarian going forward.
http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=452
I think it only appears if you are logged in DBD. It is in the black bar at the very top of the page
Off topic:
Legendary jazz trumpeter Hugh Masekela, a leading figure in the struggle to end apartheid and “the father of South African jazz”, has died aged 78.
Respect
HS
redetinJanuary 22, 2018 at 11:06
‘…an archive of documents that have been published since the RTC days…
_______________
To use the opening words of ‘War of the Worlds”
‘No one would have believed in the early years of the 21st century’
that the mighty Glasgow Rangers FC ,founded 1872, would
cease to exist,
that its penultimate former majority shareholder, knight of the realm, master user of other people’s money and deceiver for years of the whole Scottish football world, lord of the empty boast, would sell it for £1 in order to get out of liability for massive tax debts;
that its final majority shareholder, a little nyaff of a runt of a would-be asset-stripper would run it into Administration,
and that a hopeless a pair of Administrators, subsequently questioned about their efforts, would fail to avoid it crashing into Liquidation.
and not many people seriously believed that the Governance body of Scottish football would deny the truth, bend or break or ignore the rules, and do everything in their power to construct, propagate, and run with a monstrous untruth.
Certainly, when first I read RTC’s early accounts,I did not for one second believe that the story would run on and on and on ,or that such work as the switcheroo would come about, or that the ridiculous LNS ‘judicial’ inquiry’ would come out with some really astonishing conclusions, or that there would ever be the “5-way Agreement”, etc etc etc.
I thought the temporary embarrassment would be over quickly, and that the nyaff with the mega-millions would settle up, and restore the finances of ‘Rangers’ to what we had all been led to believe had been their former level.
I could kick myself now for not having kept a really, really comprehensive record of all that was established as fact, and of all the CF stuff that had appeared, and the principal statements by the main players.
Now, of course, there is so much material that it would/ will be a several days’, perhaps a couple of weeks’ job for me to identify, find, copy and sort and categorise coherently everything that is on-line or in other public places somewhere.
I believe that wrong things were done on many different levels- and I hope I live long enough to see the baddies hanged from the mercat cross , with copies of the 5-way agreement lodged in their fundaments.
EASYJAMBO
“They desired it should be non-sectarian”
yet strangely ,hibs wanted celtic to remove the tricolour from celtic park but celtic were supported in this by,of all people,rangers,weird old game
EASYJAMBOJANUARY 23, 2018 at 12:37
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It is interesting to also look at the how the reformed club started. The following is an extract from the Scotsman, dated 22 October 1892. You will note that they decided that the club would be non-sectarian going forward.
On the motion of Mr. Galwin it was agreed to accept five shillings from anyone present towards the guarantee fund, that sum afterwards to go towards their first membership ticket. The CHAIRMAN intimated before the meeting ended that the guarantee fund had risen to £130 and names were then taken of persons desirous of guaranteeing with a view to membership, a good number going forward.’
Are you seriously suggesting that awful piece of business speak bollocks “going forward” was in use in the 19th century?
Harry Brady @HarryBradyCU15m
We have @JohnMasonMSP on tonights podcast discussing the Act; Rushed? Vague? Should be more about Hate Crime in society Should cover Orange Walks Will state all this on Thursday Vote to repeal & start again The podcast will be up after 9pm tonight
for anyone who wants to tune in
tonyJanuary 23, 2018 at 13:43
EASYJAMBO“They desired it should be non-sectarian”yet strangely ,hibs wanted celtic to remove the tricolour from celtic park but celtic were supported in this by,of all people,rangers,weird old game
______________________________
I suspect that such magnanimity from Ibrox had more to do with the benefits accruing to Rangers from a symbol of hatred for the ‘loyalists’ in their ranks, than it had through respect for another country’s flag, or the rights of a rival to fly whatever flag it wanted to.
The Sun “Liverpool flop David N’Gog signs for Ross County”. If only the poor guy had gone to Sevco Rangers, how much different would that headline have been?
1) Should someone inform the Hampden blazers that a tour of South America during the Scottish summer, is during the winter in the southern hemisphere ? i.e. they probably won’t need to pack their Speedo’s to get a tan!
2) The PR p!sh regarding the expensive, veteran/old, TRFC player Bruno Alves has certainly changed in recent weeks: below are some recent headlines from the DR;
8th Jan:
“Rangers will step up Russell Martin bid if they offload Bruno Alves”
21st Jan:
“Bruno Alves to decide between Rangers and significant pay cut at Benevento”
23rd Jan:
“Why Rangers could regret it if they allow Bruno Alves to leave Ibrox in January”
STEVIEBCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 15:27
1) Should someone inform the Hampden blazers that a tour of South America during the Scottish summer, is during the winter in the southern hemisphere ? i.e. they probably won’t need to pack their Speedo’s to get a tan!
2) The PR p!sh regarding the expensive, veteran/old, TRFC player Bruno Alves has certainly changed in recent weeks: below are some recent headlines from the DR; 8th Jan: “Rangers will step up Russell Martin bid if they offload Bruno Alves”
21st Jan:“Bruno Alves to decide between Rangers and significant pay cut at Benevento”
23rd Jan:“Why Rangers could regret it if they allow Bruno Alves to leave Ibrox in January”
______________
1) With Mexico being north of the Equator, I’d imagine June to be the start of their summer, and very hot, in fact, roasting hot, while, although South of the Equator, Peru is situated just below it and so will still be be rather warm, depending on altitude, I’d suspect. In other words, a nice wee jaunt, unless you have to train in that heat.
2) The ever-changing narrative. Looks a bit like Alves might have refused that cut in wages, if today’s headline is anything to go by. Going by the first headline, and it makes sense, they would be picking up a high wage earner and financing it by offloading an even higher wage earner. If, however, they fail to offload Alves, they will have increased the cost of their defence, but will have even less use for their most expensive player.
During a brief listen to the wireless, (showing my age) at lunchtime, I picked up a bit of an interview with Gordon (Sergeant Schultz) “I know nothing!” Smith, based on his experience as CEO of the SFA.
He said (despite doing his due diligence
he was surprised at how little power he had. Almost all decisions were made by the board or committees and while he could come up with suggestions, there was little “power” behind the throne.
Considering all we have seen from Regan is Lies, Bullying, Obfuscation, Silence, Scheming and down right incompetence, can someone tell me why he gets paid so much????
Aye OK, AJ…apologies for my ignorance…the Blazers should take their Speedo’s then.
GaslampJanuary 23, 2018 at 15:09
The Sun “Liverpool flop David N’Gog signs for Ross County”. If only the poor guy had gone to Sevco Rangers, how much different would that headline have been?
………………………………………………………………………………………………….
How about “Ex PSG and Liverpool world class striker joins world’s greatest club to resurrect career”
STEVIEBCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 16:52
Aye OK, AJ…apologies for my ignorance…the Blazers should take their Speedo’s then.
_________
Wasn’t suggesting ignorance, Stevie, just trying to show how nice it will be for those not expected to train and play. And also how f…ed some players might be after a couple of weeks in conditions designed for Speedos and sun loungers
ALLYJAMBO
probably right
Wish you would stop talking about the Blazers and speedos. It’s making me feel a bit queezy.
From the Deloitte Report downloaded as a pdf from:
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.html#https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.html#
“Scotland.
Despite Celtic’s failure to qualify for the UEFA Champions League group stages for the second consecutive season, Scottish Premiership clubs aggregate revenues grew 10% (euro;14m), to euro;149m. Celtic continued to generate over 50% of total revenues as they won the league for a fifth consecutive season, and their participation in the 2016/17 UEFA Champions League group stages will result in a substantial uplift in revenue being reported in next year’s Annual Review of Football FInance”.
There is also evidence in there of the relative importance of match day income for Scottish Premiership clubs.
This should give Mr. Lawwell some influence with the SPFL Professional Game Board. Shame he removed himself from the SFA one, with the Compliance Officer’s Report being due sometime this Millennium. He could also have enquired whether or not monies spent on the LNS whitewash, and the QC’s opinion on their inability to impose sanctions on the misuse of EBT’s for example, may with hindsight have been better used trying to persuade their chosen candidate to take up the vacant Manager’s position with the national team.
It often gets dry and sunny here in the summer . I would have thought it better for Mexico and Peru to have their training camps in Europe in preparation for the world Cup- we should have invited them here .Lots of South and Central American support in the west of Scotland .
PS don’t lose the esses from your shorts-don’t know where you might end up .
SCOTTCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 09:52
I started one some time ago, but got no traction/interest. YOu can set it up to allow only certain people to contribute and attach links to the relevant documentation https://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/602391/An-Insolvency/
——————————————————–
I just had a quick browse and it looks very good.When i have a moment i will find the time to navigate round about it.Added to my favorites
Paddy Malarkey:
“PS don’t lose the esses from your shorts-don’t know where you might end up .”
I’m confused. ?
Thanks to everyone who has come on to the Music Tastes on SFM forum. 58 posts and counting!
SCOTTC
https://www.tiki-toki.com/https://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/602391/An-Insolvency/
i lile this a lot. The ability to dig for greater detail and the links you have put in which take you to sources of info are really clever!
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/uefa-nations-league-draw-explained-what-time-when-groups-who-england-play-scotland-wales-ireland-a8174736.html
Tiki-toki
It is a fair bit of work and would be much easier with multiple contributors (which is why I never took it further to be honest). I did offer up the site to be used here with a limited number of contributors but a direct link from SFM, but got no response. I think it would be great to have all the court transcripts and records in it and even relatively simple stuff and it doesn’t have to relate to Rangers as this one does. It could easily be focussed on the decline and fall of the Regan Empire, or that could be another one
Scottc, did you notice I changed my wee picture to a cool dog?
Club crests are so last year! Pets are us.
I did notice that Jimbo. Make sure (s)he leaves my kitten alone though. Mind you it should be okay because it is in a wee glass box
SCOTTCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 20:34
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/uefa-nations-league-draw-explained-what-time-when-groups-who-england-play-scotland-wales-ireland-a8174736.html
____________
Looks to me like another method of directing TV and sponsorship money towards the already rich and powerful FAs, with the top league obviously attracting the top money. I wouldn’t be surprised if the eventual, unpublished, aim is to make it a bigger money-spinner than the World Cup.
That was a tighter game than I expected from Firhill. But that’s football!
Livingston got beat! 🙁
SCOTTCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 20:39
It is a fair bit of work and would be much easier with multiple contributors (which is why I never took it further to be honest). I did offer up the site to be used here with a limited number of contributors but a direct link from SFM, but got no response.
————-
Maybe now ?
It is a fair bit of work, but much appreciated.
To late to edit
SCOTTCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 20:39It is a fair bit of work
———–
Can you add pictures?
If so feel free to add any newspaper pictures i add on SFM, If you can use them as a sort of this is what the media were running with as this was happening behind the scenes. or ask for any specific dates, i will see what i have(i have a lot)
Speak to BP, if he can help I’m sure he will.
This is my last ever post about ON pitch football. Ever.
Griffiths should start every game.
Goodbye.
Yrs etc.
Jimbo.
An archive is a great idea, of everything from pre Craig Whyte to the present. Not only would it be a reference source for those of us on here , it would be for others too, who may not be aware of SFM at the moment.
The whole saga from 2009 or so to the present should be documented, with court papers, smsm reports, SFA statements, contemporary SFA regulations and so on, in one location as a reference library for anyone who is interested in researching or writing on this. To the best of my knowledge this does not exist anywhere else, but it would be invaluable to anyone interested in investigating what has gone on on and writing about it, or simply for rebutting comments in the pub. As a resource for any serious journalist prepared to check sources it would be a basis for an investigation into one of the most serious scandal(s) of British public life in the last 20 years.
These issues will not go away, despite what Kenny Macintyre et al may wish. Time passes however and for those of us on this side it may be about time to get our resources organised. I have no idea how to do this, but there are posters on here who have kept archives and if we can put them in touch with those who know how to save them, we have an invaluable contemporaneous resource.
I am a willing donkey (sic) in this. I have a few records, but not many. I do have the time though to act as a co-collator if someone who knows how to manage this is willing to act as teacher / co-ordinator.
Been ‘absent’ from the site for a long number of months, due to a number of factors. Some due to disenchantment, others relating to the, in my eyes, focus of the site being on one new club, rather than the football authorities.
Nonetheless, I feel impelled to state some disappointment at the recent total lack of interest on this site in an issue which has the potential to bring about the demise of lower league football, the proposed introduction of ‘colt’ sides representing Celtic and the new Rangers.
To me, there are only negatives in this proposed pilot. My pilot proposal would be to replace the individuals who make up the Scottish football authorities with, say, single ply toilet paper. For two years.
I think we’d have a better chance as a nation of qualifying for the 2020 Euros in such a scenario.
Macfurgly, and others recently, who have expressed interest in an archive – forum? I think it is a great idea.
BP, I think, is quite keen on change here. Expanding the site?
An archive for all of Scottish football off pitch history (on-pitch is already well enough covered) would be very helpful. Especially the despicable events of the past couple of decades.
There are many posters on here who are very knowledgeable about these issues. You only need to post a question mark around a statement and within minutes someone will come on with the answer.
There are archives already in existence within the body of this blog. Of that I have no doubt. The job of collating that all together in a meaningful way would be huge and involve expertise and generosity.
It would be a great place to dip in and out of. But you know what?
A great library needs librarians. An archive needs archivists.
Whenever a question comes up on here, or an issue, Easyjambo is on it straightaway. He takes into account content and context. You need both. You need guidance around the archive.
Hopefully we can keep it all together.
Borussiabeefburg,
“Nonetheless, I feel impelled to state some disappointment at the recent total lack of interest on this site in an issue which has the potential to bring about the demise of lower league football, the proposed introduction of ‘colt’ sides representing Celtic and the new Rangers.”
Would love for you to explain the ramifications of this move. I know nothing about it. I read about but didn’t think much about it. What is the danger for lower league football? I wouldn’t be happy about that.
https://borussiabeefburg.wordpress.com/2018/01/24/colts-the-document
Chris McCart (Celtic) and Craig Mulholland (Rangers) are presently meeting with League Two clubs to encourage them to accept these two clubs’ colt teams into that league from the start of 2018-19 season. I’m sure if you read the document linked above, you can see the obvious flaws in the proposal.
The failing Challenge Cup was the thin edge.
Jimbo,
struggle with modern clicknology linkey things but the below is lifted off another site that might help.
http://www.elgincity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Colt-teams-Jan-18.pdf
Tough league game for TRFC tonight.
And it’s payday tomorrow, I believe.
It has been speculated that further soft loans from Directors are required – or any source of extra cash – to cover January expenses.
Could the SFA or SPFL effectively become the ‘bank of last resort’ and mibbees advance funds – or some prize monies – to TRFC?
With the top league in Scottish football completely dominated by one club, what could be better than to emulate that in the bottom league? It’s such a wonderful format, I wonder why no one has thought about it before. And how much better will it be that only two clubs will actually benefit from it, it is so typical of Scottish football, it just has to happen.
A proposal to ‘improve’ Scottish football where only two clubs from the top league will benefit, jings, it’s almost like the Old Firm has been reborn!
BorrusiaBeefburg, a good return to the blog, with a very important issue for discussion.
SCOTTCJANUARY 23, 2018 at 09:52
I started one some time ago, but got no traction/interest. YOu can set it up to allow only certain people to contribute and attach links to the relevant documentation
https://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/602391/An-Insolvency/
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I have probably retained a larger repository of documents than most, and would be happy to contribute most of them to a central repository.
The timeline is fine if that is how you want to access the information. However, while I use dates in the file names of most of my documents, it is not the primary way that I store or access information. I prefer a file manager type structure with documents categorised by subject, e.g. I have separate folders for Accounts, Companies House Docs, Creditors Reports, Financing and Sharedealing, Governing Bodies, EBTs, Wee Tax Case, Tribunal and Legal Decisions, plus a raft of other uncategorised documents.
I would prefer that a repository was part of the SFM site and that no personal information would be accessible from any of the stored documents, e.g. the author’s name.
Yes, adding pictures is easy enough. I am willing to upgrade to a paid account to allow multiple editors if there is a general consensus that this is something worth doing although people willing to actually be editors would be helpful too
That’s fair and how I tend to access stuff too. I think it’s left-brain at work. 🙂
It is possible to allocate a category to each story for ease of searching. I agree regarding the author’s name etc. I’d have to look into that. My tendency when I was doing it originally was to link to news stories so I would have to check on the document storage portion. I think it would be workable to convert everything to PDFs or images and remove such information before posting.
And as far as I am aware, they are not even currently the BEST two sides!
scottcJanuary 24, 2018 at 11:20
They are, though, the only two sides that could reform the Old Firm, which I am sure is something desirable in the minds of those pushing the idea.
A wee thought. I wonder if the two clubs involved have cleared it with the other members of the SPFL, particularly those in the Premiership, before making contact with clubs in the lower leagues! I doubt that this kind of self-serving idea has been directly covered by the ‘rules’ (ha, there’s an interesting concept), but surely it is extremely disrespectful (there’s a phrase that is used in the rules and I can’t for the life of me think what it is) to the rest of the clubs not included in this super wheeze, if permission to make contact hasn’t first been sought! And just how stupid, and disrespectful to their own supporters, would it be if permission has been given by the rest?
PS. It might be slightly less obvious an OF ploy, but still a disgrace, none the less, if the proposal was for the top two Premiership clubs from the previous season to be allowed to play a second team in the bottom league.
StevieBCJanuary 24, 2018 at 09:18
Tough league game for TRFC tonight. And it’s payday tomorrow, I believe.
It has been speculated that further soft loans from Directors are required – or any source of extra cash – to cover January expenses.
Could the SFA or SPFL effectively become the ‘bank of last resort’ and mibbees advance funds – or some prize monies – to TRFC?
————————————————————–
Tough game for AFC tonight! Wonder how many of the loan Rangers will be involved? Have to say some good acquisitions there.
Anent shortage of cash I see that the BBC football gossip has them finalising the deal for the Hamilton boy today for £650k. No mention of a payment schedule though.
borussiabeefburg
January 23, 2018 at 23:32
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As I understand it the teams in the bottom division are currently being canvassed for that division to be extended.
However the proposal would then have to be put to all 42 clubs to agree.
The rationale being that it would be good for the clubs in the bottom division as they would potentially gain financially based on increased home gates, and heightened interest in the division. Similar to what happened when the new club was allowed into the SFL (as was) and the amount of money in the bottom division increased. Providing financial assistance to clubs at that level.
Clearly Celtic and Rangers want this as it would allow their colts teams to take part in competitive football at that level.
If it bring more money into the bottom division, and the two teams involved benefit from it, and it is agreed democratically can someone tell me what the problem is.
I have long felt that an SFM-curated library of relevant documents was desirable.
I would also suggest that there be a (very) short bullet point summary document for the hard of thinking that sets out the key facts of the matter with links to library documents where appropriate.
This could then be used in any discussion with stakeholders or to respond to inaccuracies noted in the SMSM.
Facts are chiels that winna ding.
Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.
AllyjamboJanuary 24, 2018 at 11:51
A wee thought. I wonder if the two clubs involved have cleared it with the other members of the SPFL, particularly those in the Premiership, before making contact with clubs in the lower leagues!
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There is only one league now, the SPFL, which is made up of 4 divisions.
The clubs in the top division have no more rights, or votes than the clubs in the other divisions. Forty two members, one vote each.
There is no more need to clear it with the clubs in the top division than with those in the fourth.
It would have been different in the SPL / SFL two league setup.
HomunculusJanuary 24, 2018 at 12:09
It is over the clubs in the Premiership that they are trying to gain an advantage, though, but regardless, the question remains, have they sought permission from the whole of the SPFL before approaching the clubs in the lower divisions, and why only Celtic and TRFC to benefit? (Rhetorical question, I don’t expect anyone to know the answer) If anyone thinks the motivation for this is to provide additional finance to the lower division clubs, then they haven’t been paying attention for the past 140 years!
‘Craig Mulholland (Rangers) and Chris McCart (Celtic) to meet with League Two clubs and feedback to SPFL ‘ – looks awful like the Old Firm to me!
A repository of info would be a great addition to our stuff.
Auldheid has recently given me a rather lengthy document with a view to taking out bullet points tp present much of the drier content in a concise way.
That could form part of the approach. Getting started is an inertia problem I think, but overcoming the inertia would see the process accelerated.
Might be time to have a meeting, perhaps in Edinburgh, to discuss with interested parties how we could proceed, and solicit some assistance in archiving, indexing etc.
borussiabeefburgJanuary 23, 2018 at 23:32
“Colts-the Document”
____________
That was a very useful post, bbb.
I don’t think , as a paper, that it presents the case very well.
If I was chair of a lower league club,I would feel that I was being bounced into something (‘and it’s ok,folks, Malky likes the idea”) that was akin to serving as a training experience for the players of richer clubs, with nothing very much in it for me, on very spurious grounds that I had a ‘responsibility’ to Scottish Football and the development of players for a future national team.
I would need a far better presentation before I would be happy to vote for the proposal.
Dear little club (john clark FC)
thank you for your comments now take your 15k, vote yes and shut the —— up!
yours etc
The supposed good of Scottish fitba (which just so happens, entirely coincidentally of course, to benefit the two dominant senior teams and proposers of the restructure and correspondingly weaken the others).
BORDERSDONJANUARY 24, 2018 at 12:00
Tough game for AFC tonight! Wonder how many of the loan Rangers will be involved? Have to say some good acquisitions there.
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Indeed, but one does wonder why it is taking so long to get permit clearance for the Dons latest loanee from Man City. I wonder if it will miraculously come through at 8:05 tonight, just too late to turn out at Ibrox.
Cynical, but such is the level of transparency in the SFA its hard not to wonder. Lets face it, they do have previous…. Farry anyone?
By the way, colt teams – they will be the final straw for many Dons supporters I know. You don’t have to dig deep into the online forums to find many saying the same. If colt teams go ahead then “ahm oot!”
Why do they have to field entire teams ? If they have that many young players who need competitive game-time , why don’t they each loan two players to each team for free ,stipulating that they play if fit . No cost to the wee team , uplift in quality in the division , the players involved develop , Scottish football prospers .
Tayred, it’s a good time to raise the ” Colts then I’m oot” issue. My very limited view (mates in the pub) are of the same opinion, Old Firm colts would be the final straw. The fact that it may be voted on by the rest makes it even worse. I’ve gone through a lot of crap with Scottish fitba but I have to say that it’s an “I’m oot” for me also. And that goes for AFC having a colt team also although I see that that’s not on the agenda, what a f’n carve up.
If you want a litmus test of what defines the Old Firm then it is not seeing what the issues are here.
Then there’s what it does to the ‘shape’ of Scottish football. A bottom league where two of the participants can’t be promoted, though they might finish top more often than not! Talk about diminishing the standings of the lower clubs, that would just turn them into a joke! They might like whatever extra money it brings, but so would a pub domino league! Mind you, what a sh*t league it must be if £15,000pa is worth selling their soul for!
Easyjambo, a man who follows youth football quite avidly, has written before about how Celtic’s ‘cachet’ enables them to hoover up the best of young Scottish talent, and no doubt TRFC, using the name ‘Rangers’, will more and more do the same. Allowing them to play their youth teams actually within the SPFL will only exaggerate that ‘cachet’ and further reduce the pool of young talent available to the rest. There would be an added ‘unintended outcome’ in that, with the top youths now playing in the SPFL, clubs like Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc, would find their youths playing against ever more weak teams with the decline in experience and improvement that that would bring.
Another wee thing to consider about the motivation behind all this. In the past, when the ‘joining the English League’ tripe was mooted, as a ‘sop’ (and some sop that would be), both clubs kindly offered to run a second team in the Scottish League. How convenient might this move seem in the event such an outcome, however unlikely, appeared on the horizon?
If the rest of Scottish football is prepared to bow down to this one, then the game really is a bogey.
paddy malarkeyJanuary 24, 2018 at 13:23
Why do they have to field entire teams ? If they have that many young players who need competitive game-time , why don’t they each loan two players to each team for free ,stipulating that they play if fit . No cost to the wee team , uplift in quality in the division , the players involved develop , Scottish football prospers .
_________________
You see, Paddy, that would be hard to justify as applying only to two clubs, and wouldn’t give a kickstart to the acceptance of the Old Firm. In truth, though, that situation probably exists at the moment, anyway, and the top clubs probably aren’t too keen to risk too many of their youngsters at clubs who don’t have the facilities, such as medical and coaching, that they have in the Premiership.
Wasn’t it around five years ago that TRFC were complaining about the ‘hammer throwers’ that their seasoned pros were having to face in the bottom league. Have the ‘hammer throwers’ all left now, or are those running TRFC not really bothered about the welfare of their youths?
BBC Sport Scotland coverage of the Colts Plan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42793072
Celtic and Rangers colts: Berwick, Elgin and Stenhousemuir consult fans over plan
Three League Two clubs are to consult fans about a proposal to add Old Firm colt teams to Scotland’s fourth tier.
Elgin City, Stenhousemuir and Berwick Rangers were responding to a two-year pilot project suggested by Celtic and Rangers.
Berwick have given a guarded welcome to the proposal, which could be introduced as a two-year trial from next season.
“The board would welcome any discussions to review and alter the current structure,” they stated.
Celtic’s Chris McCart and his youth development counterpart with Rangers, Craig Mulholland, are touring League Two clubs giving presentations about the proposal.
They claim that the concept of B teams playing in lower divisions helps the development of young players in countries like Spain, Norway and Netherlands.
The Scottish Professional Football League is likely to consider the issue this Spring and Berwick point out that it “will need a substantial majority of the 42 clubs to vote in favour”, although “we understand that other Premier League clubs are supportive of the proposal, as are the Scottish FA”.
“It is intended that the pilot project would run alongside other proposals for league reconstruction, a new reserve league, and changes to the system of loans,” they said in a website statement.
“It is clear that many fans would welcome a change from the current 10-team division and seeing the same opposition on at least four occasions.”
Celtic and Rangers would play all their matches away from home and guarantee the purchase of 250 tickets per match at £10 per head, which would generate £15,000 of income for the other 10 clubs.
Old Firm colt teams have been playing in the Scottish Challenge Cup
The Old Firm argue that additional income would be generated by hospitality, sponsoring and increased media interest and fan excitement.
“When put in the context of recent seasons, where the club has declared losses of £81,000 and £89,000, and another substantial loss likely for 2017/18, the directors must look to the financial security of the club outwith the rewards associated with a Scottish Cup run,” Berwick stated.
“As it stands, League Two attracts only 2% of the cumulative wealth of the Scottish game and, in future, we must hope for a restructure of financial distribution, as well as league reconstruction.”
With the colt sides playing away from home, the preferred option is to reduce the season from 36 to 33 games, with senior sides having one or two more home games and a minimum of four less away from home.
“This is an important consideration in increasing revenue from home fixtures, including hospitality and sponsorship, and decreasing travel costs to away fixtures,” Berwick said.
“We also note that facing colt opposition on six occasions at Shielfield is not such an attractive option for fans.”
Colt teams would not be permitted to win promotion, or be relegated, and Berwick stated: “It is a concern on the grounds of sporting integrity that, at the start of a season, some teams are not competing for the same rewards as others.
“However, we would accept that colt teams are likely to be comprised of young players aspiring to extended professional contracts or promotion to their first-team squad and, as such, would prove effective opposition regardless of their league position.”
Berwick have urged their fans to contact them with their opinions, while Stenhousemuir and Elgin said they would be consulting their supporters groups before forming their view.