A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM
I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.
I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.
Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.
My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.
Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.
The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.
Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.
The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.
In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.
Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.
In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.
Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”
If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.
So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.
It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.
Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.
It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.
Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.
What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.
They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.
Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.
That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.
A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.
Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.
They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.
People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.
But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.
David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.
The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.
Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.
So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.
Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.
They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.
How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.
The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.
In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.
They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.
They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.
There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.
For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.
The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.
It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.
It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.
The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.
The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.
They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.
In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:
“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”
There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.
I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.
And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.
The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.
The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.
The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.
Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.
As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.
Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?
King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.
Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.
If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?
Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.
The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.
The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.
Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?
David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.
Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.
The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.
Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.
You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.
You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.
You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.
If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.
I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.
In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.
In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.
The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland. The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.
The rules must be applied without fear or favour.
The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.
James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/
greenockjack says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:07
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verselijkfc
The possible motive that Mullach mentioned @ 01:11 and I highlight @ 08:21 would help back-up my theory. That CF was being run by someone or group very similar in several areas to RTC and friends.
It would help explain:-
– Info that well connected Celtic supporters have re.CF.
– Dripping of leaks in a reactionary way to events.
– Deeper lying motive.
– Tweet aimed at Rangers supporters spokesman.
– Collective coming together of several high-profilers to give a positive reference to CF & info.
If the case, you would have to ask the following.
Are they interested in the truth or to maximise damage on Rangers ?
======================================
Probably the truth. Rangers are more than capable of damaging themselves, they certainly don’t need any help in that department.
Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 06:15
And who is going to buy STs in this climate?
_________________________________________________________________________
” A fool and his money are soon parted ”
‘Gers supporter, sir ? Step this way . . . How many ST’s did you say, sir ?
greenockjack says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:07
“If the case, you would have to ask the following.
Are they interested in the truth or to maximise damage on Rangers ?”
====================================================================
Jack – guess the CF identity is a fine game but if the scenario you present is accurate, those wouldn’t be the first two questions I’d ask if I were a Rangers fan. The first might be, “Is the CF information true?” and the second might be, “Is there no end to the queue of spiv b******* ready to corrupt my club even further?”
It’s not really the most important issue that the people concerned in putting the information out might enjoy their rivals pain whilst being actors in the game of releasing damaging information through new media. Neither are they to blame for being the recipients of the skiploads of information that came their way.
Who’s supplying it and why is surely more important than the condut for it into the public domain. You might also ask why this isn’t channelled through media affiliated with Rangers supporters. You might also look at what is channelled through Rangers blogs and forums – who are the sources for Chris Graham, Mark Dingwalll, David Leggat and Bill McMurdo and is there a consistent forward looking agenda for their club that would see a team playing at Ibrox regarded by its fans and fellow competitors as an honourable organisation?
Re Unwinding the Sevco transaction
A few suggestions that this couldn’t/wouldn’t happen because it’s too complicated. It’s not. Unwinding is relatively straightforward, albeit the consequences might be messy.
1. Sale to Sevco is voided.
2, Assets revert to RFC Plc (In Liquidation)
3. Sevco get £5.5 million back less appropriate charge for disposal/use/impairment of assets over last 12 months
4. BDO conduct a proper winding up.
The SFA (or any other football authority) have no say in this, it will be purely a matter for BDO and the Courts. IMHO the latest revelations probably make this scenario more likely as it shows the Sevco transaction for the sham it is.
The (unpalatable to some) consequences would be that RIFC would go into administration immediately and Rangers 2 would almost certainly have to cease to be a member of the SFA.
However this also creates an opportunity for Rangers the Club (sic) as a new consortium would be able to purchase the assets from the liquidator and start a new Club playing from Ibrox, which may or may not be admitted to the Scottish Leagues. A genuine clean slate if you like. If you are a Rangers fan then this, unlikely though it seems, is probably your best option as Rangers 2 limping on into next season with their bag of issues is the other alternative.
Timing would be everything though as the closer one gets to the new season then the less likely it is that a new club (Rangers 3) could be able to exist for next season.
The 5 way agreement……is it really that explosive?
Fans of most clubs feel let down by many involved in the crisis brought on by David Murray’s irresponsibilities and highly questionable actions. Everything happening now is a direct result of David Murray. Without his ownership of Rangers, none of this would be happening just now.
Which leads fans to question who allowed Murray to wreak this havoc.
One of the guilty parties is the SFA, which leads to a desire to see them nailed . Given the role played in the 5 way agreement , by the SFA , it is understandable that those who don’t trust the SFA see this as a smoking gun.
I doubt the 5 way agreement will nail anyone at the SFA. The individuals at the SFA who should be put under the microscope are the old guard. Their involvement predates the 5 way agreement. Ogilvie, Bryson, Peat, Smith. These are the guys whose actions should be subject to forensic questioning.
The SFA’s failings did not start with the 5 way agreement, far from it. The close connection between key players at the SFA and Rangers, stretching back decades, is why Murray was allowed to get away with his quite disgraceful behavior,and why he still hasn’t been subject to a personal investigation
I have to say I find use of the Murray video completely distasteful and underhand. Whether or not Murray has a health problem due to a previous accident, videoing someone in those circumstances and later using it by placing it on social network media is a tactic fairly close to the bottom of the dirty tricks list. If, as said, it was taken last September what use has been made of it since then that we don’t know about?
Even if he didn’t have a health problem, a man who had had a little too much to drink had to be helped from his table at a restaurant? Stop the presses! That’s obviously never happened before in the history of humanity. It’s not as though he was bawling, shouting and trying to kick a waiter.
I suspect when it comes to secret recordings, videos, e mails and other potentially incriminating or even embarrassing material, we are only just seeing the tip of the iceberg and will be drip fed further tit-bits to suit personal agendas.
Is this now Stockbridge working his exit ticket.It seems to be the pattern here,disgrace yourself then out you go.
Thing is though,who’s negotiating with Miller,Daly,Bell,Law etc if Stockbridge is the only director of TRFC?.
I’m somewhat bemused by this scandal.
A video showing a drunk Scotsman is about as scandalous in Scotland as a politician having a mistress is in France
zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:49
I’m somewhat bemused by this scandal.
A video showing a drunk Scotsman is about as scandalous in Scotland as a politician having a mistress is in France
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But what if this politician’s mistress was Mlle Charlotte? 😉
greenockjack says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:07
The possible motive that Mullach mentioned @ 01:11 and I highlight @ 08:21 would help back-up my theory. That CF was being run by someone or group very similar in several areas to RTC and friends.
Are they interested in the truth or to maximise damage on Rangers ?
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I read this completely differently, actually ending-up at the opposite end of the spectrum, though I can understand why you get to where you’ve got to (it about how we all as individuals see the world and that old confirmation bias stuff…). When you consider the Mint’s control over the media, whether it be about any aspect of his business let alone the football franchise he used to own, the only way he could operate with virtual total impunity was to hire the best, and the best were/are Media House (the Duffer’s thought so too, based on the several hundred-thousand pounds of fees they paid out for a few months work during the admin). The people exerting maximum damage on RFC (IL) then TRFC have always been those on the inside through their proxies in the media and that means via the PR companies. Therefore I believe, maybe wrongly too, that their masters’ bidding continues to eat them from the inside, maybe Mr King for example; after all, that was a lot of money he had laundered via his 20m investment back in the day. Strip away all the nonsense and throw in a bit of responsible/accountable “authority” i.e. the SFA, and this whole saga could be solved rather simply, from a footballing point of view at least. The complexity comes from the financial-spivery and what may come out, additionally, as a result.
thebasharmilesteg says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:43
Agreed, this whole saga sinks ever deeper into the mire. The recording of this footage is the act of a truly vile player, at some level or other, the releasing of this footage is lower than a snake’s belly. If this was my club I really think I would give it up and watch the local juniors, it keeps getting grubbier and grubbier.
The boardroom in-fighting doesnt appear to be affecting the share price. Are some shareholders still locked in?
resin_lab_dog says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 03:29
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newtz says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 01:58
Newtz… (& with respect)
Do you mean
(a) Rangers… the football club currently in liquidation
(b) The Rangers … Sevco Scotland, assets disputed by Sevco 5088/ CW & Worthington
(c) A Rangers. A generic term for any Ibrox club playing in blue in Edmiston drive. (or relocated to another location)
w.r.t. (a) that bird has flown. The ship has left. The Norwegian blue has fallen of its perch. It is a geoemtrical 2 dimensional construct. A pollygon. A dead parrot.
w.r.t. (b) possible. If a DK style figure or shady bus conductor steps up with million to launder… sorry I mean invest, while the crooked authorities look the other way (squirrel hunt!) I could see this flying. Probably the worst thing that could happen.
w.r.t.. (c). Quite possible, And there is a sizeable decent support that deserve this. Guys I would happikly share a pint with. And a discredited and loathesome vociferous element that do not deserve this. People who are simply a disgrace. If the first element get control, this gets my blessing. Otherwise, good riddance to bad rubbish.
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@resin …..
A lot of (c) and some of (b) …..
Just wanted to be contentous and provoke thought and responses …… thks
sometimes interesting to gauge TU TD on such questions and discount serial TD’ers …. so would say well balanced on small sample …..
ps ….. yes, Phil I know you were refering to King btw ……
blu
I´ve already addressed the two questions you suggest in your first paragraph and although it might appear otherwise, I´m not really interested in a name for CF.
I believe it´s base is authentic and there are many questions we can ponder whilst we wait on the next leak.
What is the motive.
How they got a hold of the info. Was it by legal means ?
Why would no MSM touch it ?
Is it being leaked selectively, edited, etc.
Is it being used in a manner to maximise damage ?
As for the situation at Ibrox, it´s a mess and the power struggle that is ongoing, is ugly.
The general support has been conditioned over a long period by unscrupulous owners and their grasp on important and numerous spin conduits.
It could be used as a study to mirror the general population and how the powers that be manipulate them.
The way to try and break this is firstly buy-out the spivs then work towards 51% fan ownership.
In summary, there are many questions to ask of many people in a vastly complex mess.
There is no exclusivity on that list of questions or who has to be asked them.
That is not an attempt to shift focus or blame, it is just another angle to look at.
I don’t think Mr Malcolm Murray was the primary target of this latest sordid episode, in a distressingly long line of sordid episodes. The footage is cringe worthy, embarrassing and it is undoubtedly distracting him from the day to day, so job done in that respect. Its not as if Mr Murray has his troubles to seek, on the same day that rumours surface about the “Investigation” being put on hold, up pops Mr Regan to remind Mr Murray that he still wants answers. Coincidence? I think not.
Mr Brian Stockbridge on the other hand, had been enjoying some positive media attention of late. The quiet professional calmly getting on with the job, while all about him were losing their heads. The lone voice of sanity in a ship of fools. No longer.
Some one. or some people, obviously feel that they have been “stabbed in the back” and are enjoying a little of that dish best served cold, while at the same time distracting the masses from the real story.
Over the years I have had the dubious pleasure of working alongside more than a few of that type who clutch their MBA in one hand and a copy of Sun Tzu in the other, unpleasant chancers and charlatans almost to man
Barca
Was CF not pointing in the direction of Charlotte Square, EH1 in her suggestive question that asked if Murray.D and Jack Irvine were acquainted ?
This ahead of her first leak that had Irvine and Whyte in electronic contact, August 2009.
The same month that SDM announced he was to step down from his role at Ibrox.
Is this the point where Charlotte will close her circle ?
borussiabeefburg says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 08:50
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hserfo3e5esfdu/Sleekit%20guests%20at%20Bow%20Wine%20Cellars.mp3
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That worked for me. When thuinking back to the Glasgow Radio audio, I think that’s Stockbridge. Here starting at 19:35
http://glasgowradio.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/live-interview-with-sevcos-brian.html
Watching SFA CEO Stewart Regan on STV, give me Malcolm Murray any day.
verselijkfc
Things don´t need to be black or white, there are 128 shades of grey.
I fully understand how spin has been a vital tool in the armoury for Murray.D onwards.
That much of the damage has come from within, form the custodian/spiv of the day.
However that doesn´t mean that you can dismiss any other argument or contributory factor as not possible or valid.
It´s a vast complex tapastry and there is no simple BorW answer.
newtz says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 01:58
This might sound strange and contentous but ……
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zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:41
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This is more along the lines that i was envisaging ……
There is absolutely no doubt that the 5 way agreement was signed off by all parties. Here is an extract from a ruling by Lord Nimmo Smith-
[7] Newco was not admitted to membership of the SPL. Instead it became the operator of Rangers FC within the Third Division of the Scottish Football League (“the SFL”). It also became a member of the Scottish Football Association (“the SFA”), the governing body of the sport in Scotland. These events were reflected in an agreement among the SFA, the SPL, the SFL, Oldco and Newco which was concluded on 27 July 2012 and in this Commission’s proceedings is referred to as “the 5-Way Agreement”.
Here is a link to the full document (it’s a PDF download) http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Commission%20reasons%20for%20decision%20of%2012%20September%202012.doc
The original draft which has been published (by Green, I believe) envisaged the stripping of titles in exchange for the transfer of Oldco’s SFA membership to Sevco. However in a game of stare-eyes, our 3 heroes (Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir) blinked first, and any mention of title stripping was removed from the final document. All that was conceded by Sevco (so far as I am aware) was the payment by them of Oldco’s football debts.
This was a total defeat for the authorities. They held all the aces, since they had absolute discretion on whether to transfer Oldco’s membership, but Green realised straight away that not transferring the membership was simply not an option that the authorities would even contemplate. You know the script, blood in the gutters, social collapse, etc etc.
The 5 way agreement had nothing to do with entry into SFL1 or SFL3, since that had previously been decided by the SFL clubs on 13 July. The 5 way agreement was finalised on 27 July.There may have been an earlier verbal agreement with Green that some titles would be given up in return for direct entry into SFL1, but that is just speculation on my part.
I do not know whether the clubs have ever seen the final version of this agreement, but I seem to recall that the Livingston chairman publicly denied ever seeing it.
As regards comments by McCoist, does anyone seriously think that he has the slightest clue what he’s talking about. I’ll ask my cat about the 5 way agreement before seeking Ally’s views. At least my cat can open its mouth without talking drivel.
By the way, many seem to have had their heads turned by a tantalising glimpse of the edge of Charlotte’s frilly petticoat. Meanwhile, I have been assiduously ignoring all that and counting the TRFC pennies instead. My very simple cash flow model indicates that by the end of this month, there will be a maximum of £5 million left in the kitty (excluding the costs of the recent boardroom battles).
That may explain why the lawyers have downed tools on the “independent” commission. The one thing that unites all lawyers is that they only work if a) they get paid up front or b) they know for sure that the client can pay. These fancy lawyers and accountants have no doubt looked at the books as a first step. Having seen the books, work stops. What does that tell us about the current cash position at Ibrox? How the directors have the brass neck to sell season tickets is beyond me. I reckon that even if all existing ST holders renew, they will be bust by Christmas (in the absence of King’s £20m, of course).
I see Regan is trying to convince us a report commissioned by TRFC into itself, or its subsidiary or parent entity or whatever is truly independent. All that tells me is that the SFA under the guidance of Ogilvie continues to be truly attached by the tongue to the derrière of their brethren at Sevco/TRFC/RIFC/rfc(in liquidation)…….Yhe SFA needs a Rangers whether its strong or just a rat-infested basket case.
greenockjack says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 10:37
you are correct and I don’t disagree with any of what you say here – most elements of this ongoing story can’t be pigeon-holed into on/off, black/white answers – except for the footballing ones. I’d say there is a clear and easy route for the footballing authorities to take, based on what the various parties signed up to last summer and the current/projected financials for 2012/13 and 2013/14 from the footballing part of the enterprise.
Greenockjack
I must have missed that. However I would have thought it very well known Murray was and maybe still is a client of Irvine. In effect Irvine is a supplier to Rangers, in the same way that the face painter, the corner shop and the utility companies are/were suppliers
It’s not really a surprise his contract would continue through changes of ownership.
paulsatim says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 10:10
The boardroom in-fighting doesnt appear to be affecting the share price. Are some shareholders still locked in?
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I just don’t think there are any shares about to sell. I think one lot of 500 yesterday and one lot of 17 today. That is really thin trading.
There are lock-ins of director shares and key employee ones for 12 months but I’m not really clear whether the lock-in is effective against the likes of Green and Ahmad if they leave before December 20th.
I also am unclear what, if any, constraints apply to the original TRFC investors and in particulkar those who purchased the 1p shares although I would find it hard to see anything more than 6 months which takes us to 20 June.
There will also at the very least be an orderly trading agreement with the Institutional Investors which will run again for 6 months.
So there will be shares available in approx 4 weeks and that will be interesting. The fans will just sit tight but then that’s what football fan investors do – they sit to the end and lose the lot normally and it makes sense to no one except a football fan as we all know. But it means they can be taken advantage of by those with other motives.
zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 09:41
Re Unwinding the Sevco transaction
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Thanks ZT. A very balanced analysis. I like your positivity concerning Rangers survival in a future form. I should have adopted that tone in my earlier posts. This is a forum for all fans and sometimes I fall off the fence into one camp or the other.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 10:48
“There is absolutely no doubt that the 5 way agreement was signed off by all parties”.
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Looks like a thorough going over of the facts neepheid. I should have read the draft proposals in detail before posting but instead relied on a skim read and comments of others. It has been draft documents we seen so the final agreement may have differed. The dates you quote are vey telling. I’d have to go back over the info again to provide a concise response but even for me time does not always permit. Just to say that your argument looks sound and logical. If I have the opportunity I’ll do a read over of the draft agreement later.
Back from a wee break and see that despite a lot of posting nothing much has changed.
-As we have known for a while, Ibrox is a shambles with a load of shysters and/or incompetents in charge.
-The MSM still fail to offer any decent investigative journalism into the biggest story in Scottish Football.
-Ally continues with talk of signings and targets when the cash is most probably running out.
-The Rangers fans do not know which way to turn although some are becoming restless
-Despite the need for some reassurance that this shambles will get sorted and the club will be ‘stable’ by next season the SFA and SFL, publicly, sit on their backsides. (Some in the SPL must be glad they dodged a bullet)
-The Internet Bampots continue to be ahead of the game.
However as discussed I still think this one has a long way to run and will need some court action or a major buyout by someone with the club’s best interest at heart to bring some form of stability down Govan way. Either that or the cash will run out or be taken out and that will be that for Rangers MkII
“As a legacy of that accident, I can’t drink nowadays without getting wobbly.
“I have a balance problem and that’s a medical fact. It’s why I restrict myself to drinks over a meal.
“It seems obvious to me that the people behind this don’t want me at the club.
“It’s a stitch-up and everyone knows it.””
I have read numerous reports of MM enjoying a swally from posters on FF who have bumped into him at Ibrox , not all of them were Imran Ahmed . I’m not suggesting he wasnt set up or plied with drink but if he does have this medical condition why didnt he refuse those drinks ?
What happened that night that stopped him restricting himself ?
Malcolm seems to me to have a drink problem ,the above looks like he is in denial of this
If I go out and get myself into a similair state as MM was in ,who is to blame ?
Its me and no one else .
Yes ,filming him in this state and releasing it was a sleekit act but MM has to take responsibility for himself and not deflect the blame
ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 10:58
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Thanks EB, was thinking same myself re fan investors, but thought the “institutional” investors would be clearing off ASAP. Just surprised to to see the last week’s antics and in particular the MM videos haven’t had the effect, yet.
PS
Given the stories of how Sir Walter of Cardigan like to encourage team bonding sessions I wonder if he has been careful with whom he shared a glass of red with?
Despite his obvious love for the club I’ve a feeling he may be on he verge of chucking it given the MM video/story.
Surely he will only take so much of this and while I am certain he can look after himself and fight a good fight, this devious spiv stuff is really out of his league.
Better to be come the leader of a fan revolt and maintian his reputation amongst the diehards than quietly loose the fight from within.
Not wanting to be ageist but he must have been looking for an easier time than this after jacking in the managers job?
Have I got this right? According to Regan, the SFA are awaiting the outcome of the investigation ordered by TRFC before deciding what diciplinary action to take (if any) against TRFC?
So basically the SFA are relying on the people accused of lying to them to investigate the allegations of lying and thus have the suspected liars report back to the people that think they might have been lied to in the first place?
The next time a player or manager is offered a two match ban by Mr Lunny, the response must surely be “We have conducted our own, thorough, internal invesigation and can reassure the Compliance Officer that there is no case to answer. Cos we say so.”
Barca
I think we both know about Jack, his company, their historic and on-going role at Rangers.
The questions that Charlotte brought into focus were simple.
What exactly was SDM´s role in the takeover of 2011 (going back to 2009) ?
When did SDM first meet or know of CW in relation to Rangers and what actions did he take ?
and one for you
Do you think Charlotte has anything on SDM ?
Given that much of what we’re living through here in Scotland is fantasy –
Fast forward 18 months to Independence Day – assuming it happens – and shortly afterwards, in an uncontrollable and instinctive gesture as part of the historic moment, the First Minister announces an amnesty for Scotland’s most important Establishment sports institution with the full restoration of the club to the highest order including Gov. grants for the complete refurbishment of Ibrox park.
Oh, and knighthoods for SR, CO & AMC
Tell me it couldn’t happen.
So one thing the DR are suggesting is that the original video of MM had the audio doctored to obscure the voice (and thus the identity) of the person filming. Then we have this statement from the club:
A Rangers spokesman said: “ It is deeply disappointing and irresponsible that what was a private video recording has been made public on the internet.
“The footage was taken by a concerned colleague and was presented on a confidential basis some months ago to senior management and board directors, including the chairman, for reasons well known to him and to senior figures at the club.”
“concerned colleague” Stockbridge is so concerned he is laughing and wants to punch him.
But according to the spokesman (Jim Traynor, no doubt) somebody somehow obtained the video from Brian’s phone, took the time to conceal Brian’s identity (for some reason) and then released it to the Internet. Brilliant.
It is pretty clear now that last summer the SFA believed that Rangers could not be allowed to disappear off the Scottish football map at all and at worst should be out of the top tier for only a season.
The SFA thought they could manage both and got one of their aims wrong. The hope probably remained that restructuring would reduce exile from the top tier by a year but that looks unlikely.
So the new reality is a club taking until 2016 until it gets back to the top tier. What are the risks this will not happen that are outside the SFA control?
On the football front it is that promotion may not be as automatic as folk think. How to mitigate that risk? SFA are in control of the referees so if a push comes to a promtion shove and in line with SFA top tier return thinking the risk can be diminished by the SFA themselves.
Another risk which looks increasingly real and beyond SFA control is The Rangers running out of cash during next season. With SB sales dependent on enough supporters trusting those in charge at Ibrox this is a very real threat that the SFA have to consider.
How to mitigate? Well SFA have details of all player contracts (dont laff) so should know the going affordable rate to reduce costs. Thus SFA could decide only to allow signings that bring the wage bill down. If a wage is above the bar refuse to register the player. Thus the SFA have some power here to mitigate the risk of running out of cash.
The other risks are ground ownership and training ground ownership disappearing because of legal action in the courts.
How to mitigate? Insist on contingency plans to play and train elsewhere and limit SB sales to max of viable alternative. (That could have been Hampden with no limitations but its not available. St Mirren are next closest geographically so use their ground max as benchmark and apply consequent drop in income to wage control above.
Make ongoing membership contingent on above conditions applying unless The Rangers can provide sufficient evidence that both risks are very unlikely to mature this coming season.
Of course these steps require abandonment of the belief in a swift top tier return and in the strong Rangers, which we all know now was temporary and unreal, and that is the corner the SFA have to turn themselves to prevent the other aim failing i.e. of The Rangers ,through which the memory of Rangers continues, not disappearing off the Scottish football map
bobcobb74 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:19
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Not exactly Bob, The SFA asked Rangers to provide them evidence that CW and GG were not a partnership in the new club. In order to give them the information required (as the spivs just wanted to tell them CW was a proven liar so that should be enough), the chairman ordered the independent inquiry and promised to share the results with the SFA. This is just one of the reasons why MM is being hounded.
That is why they are waiting; I think we are being a little unfair on the SFA based on their past reputation. I will reserve judgement until the results are in.
manandboy says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:22
Given that much of what we’re living through here in Scotland is fantasy –
Fast forward 18 months to Independence Day – assuming it happens – and shortly afterwards, in an uncontrollable and instinctive gesture as part of the historic moment, the First Minister announces an amnesty for Scotland’s most important Establishment sports institution with the full restoration of the club to the highest order including Gov. grants for the complete refurbishment of Ibrox park.
Oh, and knighthoods for SR, CO & AMC
Tell me it couldn’t happen.
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Ok, it couldn’t happen!
More chance of Night Terror singing “Walk on” with a green and white scarf lofted above his head than Scotland voting for independence 😮
In 1999 there was a Rugby Club in England by the name of London Scottish playing in the top league, the Premiership. London Scottish were the oldest of the “exiles” Rugby Clubs in England and had a fine tradition of showcasing Scottish Internationals.
I mention them because they were controlled by spivs and overextended themselves financially, the spiv bailed (afdter trying to sell LS’s premiership place to Bristol) and in 1999 they went into administration. To all intents and purposes the Professional Club ceased to exist and the Club had to restart as a non-League side.
After 7 promotions in 10 seasons London Scottish arrived back in the Championship a couple of years ago and are a vibrant, well funded club that will, almost certainly, be pushing for promotion to the premiership in the next season or two.
Why is this of interest? Well, if TRFC or subsequent incarnation, don’t get themselves sorted sharpish then a pyramid below the SFL will be in place and SFL3 might not be the entry point for a future newco.
It need not be a bad thing. London Scottish are arguably a stronger Club than they were 14 years ago even though they’ve been away for a long time.
What chance the saviours of the debacle may be the 2014 Commonwealth Games or even the IRB?
Being Ibrox is to be used as a venue for the Rugby Sevens then the apparent instability must be causing some concern for organisers given that the event is relatively large with TV viewers from across the globe tuning in.
Having Craig Whyte padlock or threatening to padlock the gates or someone else owning the stadium prior to the games may not be without some problems.
There is a bigger picture than just planet fitba for this one.
Craig Mather story in the Sun recently about his car crash.
M. Murray saying he was in a bad car crash when younger in the Daily Retard
SDM had bad car crash back in 1976 resulting in loss of both legs
Rod McKenzie (Harper McLeod lawyer) investigating Rangers use of EBT’s involved in car crash
Paul Gascoigne involved in car crash as a passenger back in June 2010
See the theme? The whole club is a car crash
wottpi says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:52
What chance the saviours of the debacle may be the 2014 Commonwealth Games or even the IRB?
Being Ibrox is to be used as a venue for the Rugby Sevens then the apparent instability must be causing some concern for organisers given that the event is relatively large with TV viewers from across the globe tuning in.
Having Craig Whyte padlock or threatening to padlock the gates or someone else owning the stadium prior to the games may not be without some problems.
There is a bigger picture than just planet fitba for this one.
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Depending on how other events are scheduled, Celtic Park, Hampden and Scotstoun would all be suitable venues for the Sevens. If none of those are available then there’s always Firhill, the former home of Glasgow Warriors.
wottpi says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:15
Given the stories of how Sir Walter of Cardigan like to encourage team bonding sessions I wonder if he has been careful with whom he shared a glass of red with? Despite his obvious love for the club I’ve a feeling he may be on he verge of chucking it given the MM video/story.
Surely he will only take so much of this and while I am certain he can look after himself and fight a good fight, this devious spiv stuff is really out of his league. Better to be come the leader of a fan revolt and maintian his reputation amongst the diehards than quietly loose the fight from within.
==================================================================
A Rangers spokesman states that the Stockbridge video was shown to Rangers directors, including Murray, and senior management some months ago but the Record states that the video was shot by Stockbridge last September.
Murray says he wasn’t shown it and I would reckon if it was shown to senior management it was to undermine Murray’s position as chair because surely something as sensitive as this, if done for genuine concern, would have been kept very tight.
However what I wonder is what directors was this shown to? Was it the directors of TRFCL or of RIFC Plc? All the leaks and smears for months aimed at destroying Murray talk about directors being given evidence and I for one, and I’m sure many others, have always assumed we were talking about the Plc Board.
But was the video initially only shown to the TRFCL directors who currently are Green, Ahmad and Stockbridge although as the cameraman he was certainly aware of it. And did the story spread and grow through Chinese whispers to the Board Members of RIFC Plc who might not have been shown the video or have been informed who took it. Don’t forget that the original reports were supposed to have come from two unidentified Rangers fans.
Whatever the truth actually is Smith has had a long time to resign over the affair and hasn’t and won’t as long as he thinks he can save McCoist IMO. He might have some currency with the Easdales or King but I think ordinary Rangers fans are starting to be very critical of his apparent inaction.
Still, perhaps Malcolm should have watched consumption a bit more or not gone to the toilet and left his glass unattended. But tbh I think a bigger smear on Rangers took place at the restaurant when Stockbridge’s mystery female companion stated: ‘“He’s so drunk. Makes me so angry I just want to punch him.”
I truly wonder if that is behaviour acceptable for a female escorting a senior Rangers director to dinner. Personally I would be happier in the company of an amiable-seeming bloke like Murray than someone who seems to be on a trigger-edge of violence. Still there’s no accounting for the taste of Mr Stocbridge and how he thinks dinner guests should be treated it would appear.
To add to my 11:59 post.
As far as I can see, Celtic Park is only hosting the opening ceremony so should be available. If the gates to the Big Hoose are padlocked it is the obvious alternative being a comparable size. Scotstoun, which hosted an IRB Sevens event just a couple of weeks ago, only seems to have table tennis and squash so could also be viable. Just depends on how many tickets they expect to sell.
I think it’s worth emailing the Commonwealth games organisers to warn them of a potential issue with the availability of the Stadium that John Brown played for
madbhoy24941 says:
Re the SFA being reasonable in waiting for the Pincent Masons report,I disagree.
The SFA could quite reasonably have taken the line that as TRFC (or is RIFC also involved?) are providing information to Pincent Masons, then copies of everything they get should also be made available to the SFA.
Simples, Not much extra work or cost except for an office junior at a photocopier for a few hours and a packet or two of the cheapest A4 paper from whatever office supplier trusts them with an invoice arrangement (or more likely a quick trip to Office World and a tenner from the petty cash tin). They could even bill the SFA for the cost of the paper, assuming there’s a receipt of course)
The SFA could then look at everything from their point of view, you know, with THEIR duties & responsibilities in mind?
Nah, maybe not
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:44
bobcobb74 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:19
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Not exactly Bob, The SFA asked Rangers to provide them evidence that CW and GG were not a partnership in the new club. In order to give them the information required (as the spivs just wanted to tell them CW was a proven liar so that should be enough), the chairman ordered the independent inquiry and promised to share the results with the SFA. This is just one of the reasons why MM is being hounded.
That is why they are waiting; I think we are being a little unfair on the SFA based on their past reputation. I will reserve judgement until the results are in.
======================================================
I agree with you on this one madbhoy. The in-house investigation might surprise us all especially when we look at the hopes for the Big Stage production of LNS which in reality was designed to fail.
We know that the P&M investigation is being constrained to a large degree by what they are told but the investigators, even if they didn’t realise to begin with. must be fully aware that unless they are really on the ball then it could come back to haunt them big-style.
Their report will tend to form the bedrock of subsequent consideration by the SFA and I actually believe that the SFA has a very strong survival instinct and if it comes to a choice between them and whatever sevco creation is adjudged the new owner then I have no doubt that the SFA will protect itself first and foremost.
But we have to accept that the required evidence might not be available or even actually exist and in that sense it’s similar to the Hearts is it an ‘insolvency event’ or not. I am more and more coming to the conclusion that only a criminal investigation has any chance of getting to the bottom of what has happened although even that might not lead to a successful prosecution.
And I certainly believe that MM is being punished through public humiliation for demanding the inquiry and any right-thinking person can only agree with him. There is a cancer within Rangers that needs excised and to be able to do that it must be identified along with its tentacles if the club is to have any hope of moving on.
zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 12:04
Just depends on how many tickets they expect to sell.
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I’m sure the Commonwealth Games organisers have already been guaranteed a world record attendance so may be loth to abandon the venue 🙂
I understand that the SFA have asked for copies of all documents and information found relating to CW and CG investigation, to be faxed to them.
SR said he will look at them, once the fax has been repaired.
The final day of the season had a particularly positive feel good factor to it. Noteworthy was St. Johnstone’s great achievement of gaining 3rd position and a place in Europe. Terry Butcher’s magnanimity in defeat .Celtic and Hibs both producing flowing football which bodes well for a good Cup Final and a general feeling of football having given pleasure to fans throughout the campaign. It has been a good twelve months for Scottish football.
Compare and contrast the last twelve months for TRFC.? There is nothing good to feel about there.
We have had individuals threatened, additional security for football grounds, governing authorities still dancing around their needs, Chief Executives, and others, whipping up the odious elements, legal findings which are ,in my view beyond insipid and to cap it all a serious of tapes which have shown individuals to be bullied, harassed and humiliated.
It is beyond sad, and had the SFA ejected the club ,as they should have done, to get their house in order then we ,as football fans , would not have had the pleasure of enjoying our game tainted in this dark, tacky and undignified manner.
Am I ,in any way surprised?
No.
From daily record :
By Hugh Keevins
SPL warn SFL that financial deal for merger of two bodies is a take-it-or-leave-it offer
What is it with our football authorities – why is everything a take it or leave it, final offer or else, why are these clowns not sitting down together and working out a deal ?
manandboy says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 11:22
It couldn’t happen, although I would suggest that you go and post this on Phil’s site if you want an approving response to it. They love that sort of thing over there (although, to be fair to Phil himself, it’s a sizeable number of posters that revel in it it, rather than the man himself)
For a start, Uefa and Fifa very seriously frown on political interference in football, and such a move would probably see Scotland suspended from International and club competitions.
Ecobhoy
Like you I reckon self preservation, something all organisations/ organisms do when under threat will kick in.
We know the rules, we appreciate the principles, we understand the business dynamics and the interdependent nature of the football business, so there is nothing to hide behind that, if it makes no sense, will not be exposed in time.
By we I mean the minds honed by experience of all observers.
As an example who thought Green was dodgy from the outset? Was the inbuilt spivdetector turned off in desperation to avoid contemplating the alternative and has time proved us right
ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 12:23
Their report will tend to form the bedrock of subsequent consideration by the SFA and I actually believe that the SFA has a very strong survival instinct and if it comes to a choice between them and whatever sevco creation is adjudged the new owner then I have no doubt that the SFA will protect itself first and foremost.
==============================================
That is becoming my opinion of the SFA, but more from a point of view that as long as the same people are in position at the SFA, then a new club in blue can play at ibrox next season.
Bayviewgold @ 12:35
“From daily Record
By Hugh Kevin’s”
I wouldn’t have read any further than that. Life’s too short.
Kilgore Trout says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:01
aye – school report always said I should use my time more wisely
As predicted yesterday on here, we’re starting to get shouts of ‘No fair! Pure bias, by the way’ from TRFC fans as a reaction to Hearts not being deducted points for …er… not being in administration.
My understanding (and this is plea for someone to tell me if I’m right or wrong!) is this:
Hearts have been run independently of UBIG since the beginning of last year. More than that, they aren’t wholly owned by UBIG (they are merely the main shareholder), so were UBIG to hit the skids (or rather, when UBIG) then Hearts aren’t automatically, by association, suffering the same. As far as I’m aware, Hearts are paying their dues and are self supporting, and are therefore not in administration.
The problems will begin for Hearts if their debt to UBIG is sold onto someone as part of the sale of UBIG’s assets, who then decides to call in that debt, and that would trigger Hearts slide into administration and/or liquidation.
Have I got that right? From my (admittedly, limited) understanding, is it possible that Hearts could avoid administration altogether if any future owner of the debt agrees to allow Hearts to service it?
LIke I said, I’m flying a kite here, and would appreciate any feedback on this!
Apologies for the HTC-related grammatical catastrophes.
Tic 6709 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 07:33
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:04
As predicted yesterday on here, we’re starting to get shouts of ‘No fair! Pure bias, by the way’ from TRFC fans as a reaction to Hearts not being deducted points for …er… not being in administration.
My understanding (and this is plea for someone to tell me if I’m right or wrong!) is this:
Hearts have been run independently of UBIG since the beginning of last year. More than that, they aren’t wholly owned by UBIG (they are merely the main shareholder), so were UBIG to hit the skids (or rather, when UBIG) then Hearts aren’t automatically, by association, suffering the same. As far as I’m aware, Hearts are paying their dues and are self supporting, and are therefore not in administration.
The problems will begin for Hearts if their debt to UBIG is sold onto someone as part of the sale of UBIG’s assets, who then decides to call in that debt, and that would trigger Hearts slide into administration and/or liquidation.
Have I got that right? From my (admittedly, limited) understanding, is it possible that Hearts could avoid administration altogether if any future owner of the debt agrees to allow Hearts to service it?
LIke I said, I’m flying a kite here, and would appreciate any feedback on this!
====================================================================
I had several posts yesterday, more or less, taking this position.
I do not believe that UBIG going into administration, necessarily constitutes an insolvency event for Hearts who may carry on trading as they are today (i.e. by the skin of their teeth) until there is a further intervention.
easyjambo may be able to clarify further but AFAIK there is no debt from Hearts to UBIG, only a shareholding, however there is a debt (a loan) from Hearts to Ukio Bankas which is currently being serviced. I have heard this being mentioned as anywhere between £15 million and 27 million at various times. This loan is secured on Tynecastle.
My best guess is that the real threat to Hearts would be from the Ukio Bankas loan being called in. That is not likely to be imminent if it is being serviced.
[no idea what happened to my blockquotes in that last post]
Oh to be abl eto edit pots.
😉
I should really be reading over the draft 5 way agreement and providing a considered response to neepheid’s well thought out post above but just dipping in and out and hoovering up others comments at the moment.
What would I do if I were in the SFA’s shoes.
On Sunday the SFA hierarchy will take their seats at Hampden to watch the final of their flagship competition. As they sit down what will they view as they cast their eyes around a stadium full of expectant fans? What pride will they be feeling in the august institution of which they are head?
Quite possibly no pride at all. For as they gaze around they will absorb the eyes of 50,000 people looking at them with disdain. What a hollow victory is that; to reach the zenith of your career only to find that the reward is bitter irony?
The SFA may have felt they were acting for the good of the game in assisting Rangers but if they have not figured out by now that all they have achieved is the undermining of their own position, then there may be yet further depths to which they might plummet. The SPL seem to be lording it over the SFL. Although I feel there needs to be a realignment of the forces in Scottish Football I have no wish to see it becoming a Celtic hegemony any more than I enjoyed it being a Rangers one.
The SFA should be acting as auditor and oversight of Scottish football affairs. However they have fallen so far into disrepute that many who might have allied with them will now be putting distance between themselves and this govrning body. James F’s header article was about governance. We can see what the effects of ill-governance are. Anarchy.
Anarchy is not necessarily a bad thing but sport is about structured competition and sets of agreed rules that encourage all competitirs to believe they have a fair opportunity of success. Now we see that the SPL, realising that there is no viable oversight governance in place, is taking matters into their own hands.
SFA posted missing. Presumed dead?????
There must be someone in that organisation, some principled firebrand who has an ambition to do the right thing; to set the wheels of change in motion. For if that person merely waits for the hands of time to revolve them into a position of authority, by the time they get there it will be an accolade as worthless as being the King of Jerusalem.
Are Charlottes leaks significant?
To answer that I will draw an analogy. Prince Harry was photographed in a Las Vegas hotel room in a naked frolic with some women. Buckingham Palace attempted to suppress the photo’s. They are now trying to rehabilitate his image by recently sending him on a tour of the United States. Apparently he is being met wherever he goes by scores of US citizens. Young women mostly I understand. Was it Harry in the photo’s? I only seen a pixelated picture on my newsagent’s counter but by all accounts it was him. In fact everyone that has discussed the topic on media verifies this. To attempt to say otherwise would bring ridicule upon yourself. I don’t have any axe to grind with Prince Harry, its just a useful comparison for me.
Everyone that matters will have seen CharlotteFakeovers output. For the SFA to ignore their existence would be stupidity of the highest calibre. There is enough evidence out there to prompt any decent citizen to ask some pertinent questions. If you are a senior member of the salient governing body, no less would be expected and probably a whole lot more.
The SFA may choose to wander off further into the wilderness of irrelevance, abandoning their posts in the process. That would do a great disservice to the whole of Scottish Football, if they did.
This is an institution that could be looked upon worldwide for the proud record of it’s football teams and the long history of its involvement in the game. Perhaps all this heritage is to be taken to the scrapyard and the silverware melted down to make cheap jewellery.
What a parcel of rogues in a nation.
Some times the RM types just can’t help reverting to erm type
“Malcolm Murray looks like a f___n b—–d. Half-a-head must go.”
Meanwhile, the man wee with the wee white bricks is telling his dwindling band of followers that that nice Mr Ahmed is going around telling people that Mr Murray planned this whole thing with Mr Whyte yonks ago, when in fact Mr Murray is a paragon of corporate virtue who probably knew Mr Whyte was a wrong ‘un.
I am sure this new found source of support will be a great comfort to Mr Murray…..
Can this be the same man with the wee white bricks who, just a few short weeks ago, was telling the same Mr Murray that his personal life was an embarrassment to the club and he should get out of town before someone published video evidence, (presumably the same video now doing the rounds)?
You couldn’t make it up.
bayviewgold says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:03
Kilgore Trout says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:01
aye – school report always said I should use my time more wisely
………………………………………………
One of my school reports stated…
“your behaviour must improve…your Mother has been at this school so often people are starting to think she is one of the teachers”
mullach says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:24
Maybe some enterprising group could hand out 50,000 red cards to displayed in the direction of the SFA box at an appropriate moment?
zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:17
Apologies, I was using UBIG and Ukio Bankas interchangeably – I could work for Radio Scotland with such precision!
That’s what I meant, if the debt was called in then they would be in trouble, but would it not be more likely that any holder of the debt would rather make money off it in the form of interest and payments, given that they are likely to only recover a couple of million from the sale of Tynecastle – would they not make far more than that over the course of the next few years from continuing the debt/interest repayments?
NT/Tic 6709
In the off chance that my posts helped provoke your posts, I would just like to make it clear that I personaly do not seek the name of anyone and if you read my posts (in the last 36 hours) that will be very plain.
I do ask other questions.
Edit facility: On not In, doh !
zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:17
My best guess is that the real threat to Hearts would be from the Ukio Bankas loan being called in. That is not likely to be imminent if it is being serviced.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think that has to be right but as I keep telling my junior staff – “yes, yes your opinion is very much appreciated but what does the agreement actually say”. If the conditions in the agreement have been and are being met then it would be difficult to call the loan in unless there is scope in the agreement to do that.
You never know it could be a “Masterton Loan” so nothing to worry about.
Re the point about HMFC being ok because it is the holding company that has or soon will suffer the insolvency event. I can’t recall all of the details but wasn’t that what happened at Southampton and the FA treated the club, which was in a subsidiary of the holding company, as having suffered an insolvency event?
mullach says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:24
…There is enough evidence out there to prompt any decent citizen to ask some pertinent questions…..
============================================================================
My question is, having heard the CF audios etc, who at the SFA has the required cojonies, standing and presence to ask those questions and then who should they be asked of.
Green – fould mouthed agressive BS-er
Ahmad – Well prepared corporate assasain
Stockbridge – Well educated, intelligent, well presented but devious
Murray – Floundering
Wythe – Continually Ducking and Diving
Mather – Current (and pretty much silent) holder of the poisioned chalice
Smith – Will keep counsel and not say much so as to maintain legendary status.
McCoist – swings in the wind to keep his £750k salary and his mates in a job.
As far as I can see T’Rangers is a rudderless Ship of Fools and I doubt you would get a decent answer from anyone on board at present if they actually had the courage to face questioning.
scapaflow14 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:31
4 0 Rate This
mullach says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:24
Maybe some enterprising group could hand out 50,000 red cards to displayed in the direction of the SFA box at an appropriate moment?
————————————————————————————————————————-
Indeed.The 54th minute might be appropriate.
bayviewgold says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 12:35
“What is it with our football authorities – why is everything a take it or leave it, final offer or else, why are these clowns not sitting down together and working out a deal ?”
It’s because they are bunch of testosterone driven nowits who think Gordon Gekko really does do business like the big boys.
If I may borrow from Tom Nairn:
“Scottish football will only be free when the last member of the SFA & SPL boards is strangled by the last copy of an SPL programme”
Mullach
Why wouldn´t the press touch the material that Charlotte now has on her hard drive ?
Do we know that the material was obtained legally ?
You ask if it is of significance, up until now I´d say no. Interesting, yes. Potentially significant, perhaps.
At this stage in the saga, I´d measure as significant, something that makes a real difference, a smoking gun.
Then you have to ask will it be legally relevant, if in fact it does come.
bogsdollox says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:41
zerotolerance1903 says:
Tuesday, May 21, 2013 at 13:17
My best guess is that the real threat to Hearts would be from the Ukio Bankas loan being called in. That is not likely to be imminent if it is being serviced.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think that has to be right but as I keep telling my junior staff – “yes, yes your opinion is very much appreciated but what does the agreement actually say”. If the conditions in the agreement have been and are being met then it would be difficult to call the loan in unless there is scope in the agreement to do that.
You never know it could be a “Masterton Loan” so nothing to worry about.
Re the point about HMFC being ok because it is the holding company that has or soon will suffer the insolvency event. I can’t recall all of the details but wasn’t that what happened at Southampton and the FA treated the club, which was in a subsidiary of the holding company, as having suffered an insolvency event?
=================================================================
Willing to stand corrected but wasn’t Southampton Leisure Holdings a company that really only held Southampton FC and directly related businesses (St Marys Stadium Ltd, etc). It was also a wholly owned subsidiary.
The distinction with Hearts is that UBIG is more than just a holding company for Hearts and it’s related commerical interests. It is a parent by virtue of owning more than 50% but the Hearts shareholding is only one of a diverse set of investments of Mr Romanov .
Scapaflow.
Can you give me a source for Tom Nairn quote?
I don’t think there is anything untoward in the speculation here as to the identity of Charlotte. It’s just that her identity may give us a clue as to the veracity of the revelations and the motive for their publishing. Such is our desire for a forensic examination of all the available evidence we pounce on every bit of information and pull it to pieces. A job the MSM should be doing on our behalf if they weren’t just witless churnalists.
I would not think there is anyone here who would wish to see the individual harmed – we all know the environment we operate in, and we too mostly seek anonymity.
Contrast that with Theo-kicking Sally’s “Who are these people” outburst last year. In this case the perpetrator knew the identity of the panel members perfectly well and was engaging in rabble rousing pure and simple. It appears that threats and intimidation followed and certain individuals had to be advised on security by the police.