A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM
I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.
I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.
Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.
My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.
Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.
The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.
Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.
The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.
In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.
Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.
In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.
Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”
If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.
So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.
It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.
Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.
It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.
Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.
What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.
They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.
Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.
That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.
A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.
Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.
They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.
People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.
But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.
David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.
The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.
Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.
So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.
Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.
They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.
How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.
The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.
In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.
They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.
They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.
There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.
For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.
The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.
It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.
It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.
The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.
The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.
They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.
In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:
“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”
There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.
I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.
And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.
The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.
The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.
The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.
Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.
As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.
Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?
King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.
Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.
If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?
Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.
The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.
The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.
Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?
David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.
Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.
The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.
Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.
You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.
You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.
You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.
If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.
I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.
In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.
In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.
The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland. The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.
The rules must be applied without fear or favour.
The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.
James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/
goosygoosy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 14:06
8
0
Rate This
Quantcast
SPOT THE PORKIE
05 June 2013
Rangers International Football Club plc
(“Rangers”, the “Company” or “Club”)
Share Transfer Agreement
The Company announces that under an agreement entered into by Charles Green, the former CEO of the Company, with Laxey Partners Ltd (“Laxey”) on 19 October 2012, Mr Green has agreed to transfer 714,285 shares owned by him to Laxey, once free to effect a transfer.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Charles Green Quarry Bar Q&A
17 January 2013 Written by Douglas Dickie
Interestingly, he claimed he had no intention of taking any money out of Rangers. Instead, he would leave Rangers with shares for his kids and grandkids. When he was confirmed as the new CEO, he told the investors to find out how much Martin Bain had been paid for the same role and to half it (‘the lowest I’ve ever worked for,’ apparently).
____________________________________________________________
Excuse my ignorance but you say he is transferring shares. Does this mean he is taking money out?
Thanks ecobhoy and easyJambo, I thought 83 was an unually high number.
I was expecting something other than EBT stuff from Charlotte, but there you go, surprise, surprise.
http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/40166/the-international-search-for-ex-head-of-ukio-bankas-may-be-announced-201340166/
Looks like Hearts may have stolen the money they have been spending these last 8 years. Is this a bigger scandal than Rangers non payment of tax?
Will anyone on here care as it’s not Rangers?
Mark Daly involved in the twitter chat with CF:
@markdaly2
@JohnMcLean_HS67 @BrushwoodGulch @BonScott_1 @CharlotteFakes I had no evidence the EBT you refer to was used. Hence not reported.
3:36pm – 5 Jun 13
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 14:57
goosygoosy says: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 14:06
——————————–
My question is why the information was released now? I note that the text of the statement says:
“Under the terms of the lock-in agreement entered into by Mr Green with the Company on 7 December 2012, Mr Green is prevented from transferring shares before 7 December 2013, without the consent of Cenkos Securities plc other than in limited circumstances such as to connected persons, a family trust or in the event of a takeover of the Company.”
Could it be that Cenkos have okayed the sale now that CG is no longer employed by the company and that they believe that “orderly trading” will be maintained?
==========================================================
I wonder if Green’s grandchildren knew that Charlie had already sold-off the shares that he promised was for them. And I wonder if there are any other similar deals already done in the past which have yet to be declared.
It shows what kind of Regulation that AIM operates under when the biggest shareholder and CEO of the company floated doesn’t need to state in the Rangers AIM Prospectus that a deal like this has been done. It really is wealth of the radar 🙂
As to being released – could this have been one of the things that MM was fighting with Green over and it’s only now that Green has gone – although he’s obviously still in the background – that the issue can be revealed. MM could have got a sniff of the deal and possibly others through his City contacts.
This is the guy that had ‘rangeritis’ as well as ‘rageritis’ and had pledge his life to the club and to the Bears but here he was selling off his shares even before the club was floated. Of course he is a self-avowed ‘teetotaller’ apparently. Give me a guy like MM who likes his drink any day of the week.
I think Green has enough experience of AIM to be able to legitimately walk-away from a lock-in should he require to do so.
Mark Daly reply to tweet about wattys EBT
________
Mark Daly @markdaly2 30m
@JohnMcLean_HS67 @brushwoodgulch @bonscott_1 @charlottefakes I had no evidence the EBT you refer to was used. Hence not reported.
@ej
If text re-formulated it could read cenkos has pulled CG up – and now `agreed` any transfer will be post Dec 2013?
Fir Park,
Well have an astonishing record in the last two decades and have consistently punched above their weight. They were the best side I saw at tannadice last season and its a real tragedy that they willl lose the guts of the team this summer, if that squad and manager were given a couple of years together they are plenty good enough to compete in Europa and maybe win trophies at home.
But I must also remind you that they enthusiastilcally embraced the exponential wage inflation that did so much damage, before admin scaming their debts, benefiting from absurd promotion criteria, and then sacrificed an entire season’s football by accepting cash from Gretna and turning their surface into a tattie field and simultaneously helping Gretna distort the Scottish football market place for short term gain. I admire a lot about well, not keen on Boyle though. At least the teams with debt are servicing them.
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:08
1 1 Rate This
http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/40166/the-international-search-for-ex-head-of-ukio-bankas-may-be-announced-201340166/
Looks like Hearts may have stolen the money they have been spending these last 8 years. Is this a bigger scandal than Rangers non payment of tax?
Will anyone on here care as it’s not Rangers?
——-
Well, it is a huge story. I’ve been trying to follow it. Today, especially, has thrown up some odd things, not least the appeal for ST money and unpaid debt. Personally, I have very little insight into this, so I guess it’s up to people like yourself to propel the debate. Because the Rangers story continues to throw up so many bizarre twists it tends to keep the audience engaged, and not least because our football suthorities seem to be up to their necks in it. Will Hearts get such sympathetic trestment if the allegations are true? They’ll have now since we’ve all been told the sins of the holding company do not affect the eternal soul of the club.
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:08
http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/40166/the-international-search-for-ex-head-of-ukio-bankas-may-be-announced-201340166/
Looks like Hearts may have stolen the money they have been spending these last 8 years. Is this a bigger scandal than Rangers non payment of tax? Will anyone on here care as it’s not Rangers?
========================================================================
I would hope that the vast majority of posters on here would be interested. However, in view of my opinion of our own MSM and their shortcomings I will need more than a newspaper article to start jumping up and down.
I have some experience of living and working in eastern Europe and would observe that if you think the Scottish Establishment and Press are capable of unacceptable behaviour then Russia and many of its former Republics are in a League that could scare you to death and often actually achieve this end.
However, I do have a high regard for many journalists working there trying to publish the truth and who have given their life doing this. When I think of our lot begging for their next plate of succulent lamb in repayment for a sycophantic story I can but boak.
I hope some of our Hearts posters will help drive this issue because it has serious repercussions for Scottish Football. We have seen how the SPL and SFA have largely been unable to deal with the ‘business’ side of Rangers and tbh what chance do these organisation have in effectively scrutinising what is going on in the murky financial background of Hearts. It’s an issue that requires urgent action.
ozyhibby says: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:08
http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/40166/the-international-search-for-ex-head-of-ukio-bankas-may-be-announced-201340166/
Looks like Hearts may have stolen the money they have been spending these last 8 years. Is this a bigger scandal than Rangers non payment of tax?
Will anyone on here care as it’s not Rangers?
========================
I have no problem with you having a go at Hearts financial mismanagement or that or UBIG or Vlad personally, but I would be interested in your reasoning that “Hearts may have stolen the money”
If that was the case then it would be Hearts being pursued by the authorities and not Vlad.
If you wish to make the case that Vlad stole the money which he subsequently invested in Hearts, then fine, but please don’t misrepresent the facts. That’s one issue that upsets so many people on the blog when the MSM does it. So let’s not have individual posters doing likewise.
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:01
Thanks ecobhoy and easyJambo, I thought 83 was an unually high number. I was expecting something other than EBT stuff from Charlotte, but there you go, surprise, surprise.
==================================================================
On the other hand LNS might not have got all of the side-letters. Charlotte might not realise that some of the cases at the FTTT weren’t actually Rangers employees but included those of other Murray Group companies and odds and sods who don’t even appear to have been employees of any description.
I can’t remember if LNS stated the number of Rangers EBTs it was aware of as it was concentrating more on the principle as to whether they were ‘loans’ or remuneration. But I have a vague memory that the number of EBTs and side letters didn’t necessarily ‘match’ but I don’t think the number is too important but more the actual recipients especially now that Smith has been raised.
I think CF has probably thrown Smith into the pot just because he is now chair of RIFC. There is also the fact that he appears to be still supporting MM which might not suit the faction which CF is acting for if she isn’t a real ‘whistleblower’ but just shaping an agenda.
========================
I have no problem with you having a go at Hearts financial mismanagement or that or UBIG or Vlad personally, but I would be interested in your reasoning that “Hearts may have stolen the money”
If that was the case then it would be Hearts being pursued by the authorities and not Vlad.
If you wish to make the case that Vlad stole the money which he subsequently invested in Hearts, then fine, but please don’t misrepresent the facts. That’s one issue that upsets so many people on the blog when the MSM does it. So let’s not have individual posters doing likewise.
———————————–
That’s like Sevco fans claiming it was all Craig Whyte’s fault and nothing to do with them.
Vlad was the controlling mind at Hearts and Hearts were the beneficiaries of the alleged stolen money.
If the money was indeed stolen, then it was done by Hearts owner in order to finance Hearts. How you can say it’s nothing to do with Hearts amazes me.
Stand to be corrected but an EGM call is `from` the date applicable [RNS announcement 16 May] `within` 21 Days. I make that today CoB although the Sun seems to suggest (`sources say`) another 48 hours till Friday? Whatever – an EGM show / no-show must be close.
Of interest is MSM claims [days of the luv-in now] of what Lord Cardigan can do to `restore order / calm / unity etc` – yet now contradicted by recalcitrant shareholders reported still making demands on their terms – or else?
goosygoosy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 14:06
carlislecelt says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 14:57
Charles Green Quarry Bar Q&A
17 January 2013 Written by Douglas Dickie
Interestingly, he claimed he had no intention of taking any money out of Rangers. Instead, he would leave Rangers with shares for his kids and grandkids. When he was confirmed as the new CEO, he told the investors to find out how much Martin Bain had been paid for the same role and to half it (‘the lowest I’ve ever worked for,’ apparently).
____________________________________________________________
Excuse my ignorance but you say he is transferring shares. Does this mean he is taking money out?
———————————————————————————————————–
That’s a good question. I suppose to take money out he would need to have paid money in. But it would appear that his 5+ million shares might not have cost him a penny and that even if he did pay it would have been a maximum of 1p per share which for 5 million shares is £50,000. Just think back in January that was nearly £5 Million when the shareprice was 94p. Today it has slumped to 54p and many feel that they could go to 40p depending on what happens when lock-ins come off. But if you’re thinking of investing take professional advice.
Therefore the money he gets goes straight into his pocket and out of Rangers – never to return because the purchaser of his shares pay him and not RIFC Plc. Roll-up Roll-up all the others who might be out there with as yet undeclared ‘deals’.
I wonder if the word is spreading in the City that CW is on the legal warpath and punters are trying to safeguard any deals they have made with Green or any other shareholders before CW and his lawyers start freezing assets and shareholdings?
ecobhoy says: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:26
I hope some of our Hearts posters will help drive this issue because it has serious repercussions for Scottish Football. We have seen how the SPL and SFA have largely been unable to deal with the ‘business’ side of Rangers and tbh what chance do these organisation have in effectively scrutinising what is going on in the murky financial background of Hearts. It’s an issue that requires urgent action.
========================
I’m a shareholder of Hearts and I have been keeping a close eye on what has been going on for several years with regard to Hearts financial woes.
Most of my contributions to Hearts specific problems have been on a Hearts message board. There has been little response on TSFM to any analysis of the Hearts situation even at a high level when compared to the minutiae that matters relating to RFC and its successors have been subjected to.
Here is a summary of the issues Hearts currently face.
Debts to Ukio (in liquidation proceedings) £15M – secured on Tynecastle
Debts to UBIG (close to administration) £10M – second ranking security and floating charge
Debt to HMRC £1.5M (agreed monthly repayment scheme over next 2 to 3 years)
A projected cashflow deficit of £2.5M for 2013/14 (equates to about one third of likely income)
The deficit is mainly due to interest payments on the above debts and repayment to HMRC (previously interest was simply accrued and added to the debt)
Early sales of STs for 2013/14 (started 8th March) means that the bulk of the money received is already spent.
The formal insolvency of UBIG in the next couple of weeks may trigger an SPL imposed penalty of 15 points for being part of a Group Undertaking, which in itself may be enough for Hearts to follow suit. However, Hearts WILL end up in administration of their own volition within the next couple of months unless they are bought over before then.
Unfortunately, I suspect buyers are waiting for the insolvency event to enable the purchase price to be minimised. Any potential purchaser is also going to need an extra £5M or so of working capital to see the club through to the end of the season.
Administration Risks –
A 15 point penalty, and a weakened team, will put the club at severe risk of relegation next season.
Will a CVA be possible? The main players will be the liquidators of UKIO and the administrators of UBIG. How will they respond to a modest sized football club in a football backwater like Scotland? Sell as a going concern or seek to liquidate the assets, who knows?.
The support however seems generally pragmatic about the situation and will accept it if the club survives.
ozyhibby – for what it’s worth I think that the bulk of the money invested in Hearts over the years, was “borrowed” by UBIG from a compliant Ukio Bankas and, along with similar borrowings on behalf of Vlad’s other business interests, led to the collapse of Ukio Bankas once the Lithuanian banking authorities went through the books. The collapse of Ukio has set off a domino effect that has already knocked over UBIG and some of Vlad’s other businesses. Hearts is the next in line.
Just noticed Rangers International FC Plc shares have dropped by 2.5p today to 54p which I think is their lowest point. The people who bought 2 millions shares at £1 each are certainly taking a bath and the Bears at 70p as well as those who bought at the flotation price of 76p are being hit.
I wonder if the news about Green’s shares has affected prices today?
What are the institution investors going to do in a fortnight when their lock-in is released?
Market cap has fallen to £35.15 million.
Arabest1
===========================================================================
Fir Park,
Well have an astonishing record in the last two decades and have consistently punched above their weight. They were the best side I saw at tannadice last season and its a real tragedy that they willl lose the guts of the team this summer, if that squad and manager were given a couple of years together they are plenty good enough to compete in Europa and maybe win trophies at home.
But I must also remind you that they enthusiastilcally embraced the exponential wage inflation that did so much damage, before admin scaming their debts, benefiting from absurd promotion criteria, and then sacrificed an entire season’s football by accepting cash from Gretna and turning their surface into a tattie field and simultaneously helping Gretna distort the Scottish football market place for short term gain. I admire a lot about well, not keen on Boyle though. At least the teams with debt are servicing them
=========================================================================
I agree with most of what you say, but at least it looks like they have learned from the admin and are now trying to live within their means whilst expanding into the community and ultimately being fan owned.
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:08
“Will anyone on here care as it’s not Rangers”?
———–
It’s an open forum ozzy and you have started the ball rolling. There are a couple of Jambo’s whom I’m sure would be willing to debate with you. Many others have gained sufficient knowledge from the Rangers debacle to contribute tuppence’ worth as they feel necessary.
ozyhibby says: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:45
That’s like Sevco fans claiming it was all Craig Whyte’s fault and nothing to do with them.
Vlad was the controlling mind at Hearts and Hearts were the beneficiaries of the alleged stolen money.
If the money was indeed stolen, then it was done by Hearts owner in order to finance Hearts. How you can say it’s nothing to do with Hearts amazes me.
================================
You obviously haven’t read very many of my posts about Hearts on here over the months. If you did so you will have noted that I have readily acknowledged Hearts have been guilty of “financial doping”, i.e. spending money that they hadn’t earned and that they are a financial basket case.
I didn’t say that it had nothing to do with Hearts. I challenged you to show that Hearts stole the money. If Vlad has “stolen” money from Ukio depositors and investors then he will deserve whatever sanctions the Lithuanian authorities throw at him. If that “stolen” money ended up invested in Hearts, then I’m sure that the authorities will look for Hearts to return it and I would have no issue with that if they could demonstrate that the “stolen” money ended up in Hearts accounts.
The alleged “stolen” money equates to 50m Litas or around £12.5M. I think that you will find that that £12.5M is a very small element of the total bad debts that Ukio Bankas have in the name of UBIG.
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:45
6 5 i
Rate This
========================
I have no problem with you having a go at Hearts financial mismanagement or that or UBIG or Vlad personally, but I would be interested in your reasoning that “Hearts may have stolen the money”
If that was the case then it would be Hearts being pursued by the authorities and not Vlad.
If you wish to make the case that Vlad stole the money which he subsequently invested in Hearts, then fine, but please don’t misrepresent the facts. That’s one issue that upsets so many people on the blog when the MSM does it. So let’s not have individual posters doing likewise.
———————————–
That’s like Sevco fans claiming it was all Craig Whyte’s fault and nothing to do with them.
Vlad was the controlling mind at Hearts and Hearts were the beneficiaries of the alleged stolen money.
If the money was indeed stolen, then it was done by Hearts owner in order to finance Hearts. How you can say it’s nothing to do with Hearts amazes me.
—————————————————–
The article you posted a link to made no mention of Hearts.
It’s like posting a link to a story stating that David Murray is accused of embezzling money from MIH and saying it’s evidence of Rangers using stolen money.
It’s a bit of a leap of faith – or agenda? – to add 2 and 2 to end up with the bold statement that Hearts have been using stolen money.
This may be the case but you have not presented any evidence of this. As others have said, you are free to present a case with a bit of evidence to convince the users of the site, rather than come on with some half baked sabre rattling conclusion jumping
I’m sure if Vlad was embezzling money from Ukio he probably had better use for it – more likely his sky rocket than throwing into a Hearts shaped financial drain.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 16:11
The price has only held in recent weeks because the volumes have been very low. Even on low volumes, persistant selling will mean something has to give. It looks like it has. I will be interested to see where the support level is. Somewhere in the 40’s … 30’s … lower?
turns out rangersitis does have a cure after all.
it’s a laxeytive.
pau1mart1n says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 17:08
That’s the “cleansing” Ally was talking about!
pau1mart1n says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 17:08
Maybe Craig Mather meant to say “enemas”?
Why would a player sign for TRFC ?
With all the negative press / uncertainty regarding TRFC, why would any agent think it would be a good move for a player to sign for the Govan club ?
Does an agent get paid up front, i.e. on the player signing a contract with TRFC ?
So if TRFC does go bust the agent has already been paid – and could then be free to negotiate another transfer.
Does anyone know how agents typically get their cut: up front, or spread over the duration of a player’s contract ?
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 16:47
I’m sure if Vlad was embezzling money from Ukio he probably had better use for it – more likely his sky rocket than throwing into a Hearts shaped financial drain.
________________________________________________________
CP you have an exquisite turn of phrase! “A Hearts shaped financial drain” – I wish I could come up with this stuff. Keep it up
I’m suspecting that the AIM announcement about Charlie’s pre floatation share sale came out of the PM independent enquiry and they recommended the position be corrected asap. It was a very naughty thing to not announce it in the prospectus that the key player (well the visible one anyway) was transferring a chunk of his shares at the first opportunity. Investors need to know these things, fans do to but in this case have only a passing interest in the business side of the enterprise known as The Rangers.
CG appointments at both Football Companies as director ended 4 June on CH – timing could be of interest
Noticing some TSFM like digging on RM lately. Some posters do appear to have their head out of the sand and are willing to put it above the parapet. Regarding Charlie’s proposed share sell to Laxey.
Recent RM post on Laxey possibly indicating trouble ahead.
” ….. Another outfit that stirs up trouble in the hope of making a profit is Laxey Partners. Headed by Colin Kingsnorth, Laxey has a succession of victims on its belt, including British Land, where it tried to unseat the property giant’s then head, Sir John Ritblat. Laxey’s ownership can be traced to the Isle of Man but the firm works out of a small office in Jermyn Street. The object of its latest assault is Hirco, the AIM-listed Indian property developer. Hirco is run by the wealthy Hiranandani family.
Laxey holds 10.05% of Hirco and QVT, a fund with which it is closely linked, also has 4.95%. Kingsnorth has called for an emergency shareholders’ meeting to change the seven-strong board. He is demanding that Niranjan Hiranandani, the chairman and father of Priya Hiranandani, the chief executive, resigns and that four “independent” directors are appointed.
It’s not clear what his game plan is but it would come as no surprise if Kingsnorth was pressing for the quick sale of Hirco properties.
He’s argued against what he perceives as the lack of transparency and governance within Hirco. However, of the four new “independents”, one is Andrew Pegge, his Laxey co-founder, another is Michael Haxby, a Laxey executive. A third, Aled Rhys-Jones, runs Celtic Asset Management. Celtic’s chief financial officer, Christopher Bruce, was Laxey’s CFO between 2001 and 2007.
In Switzerland, Laxey is embroiled in a row about secret stakebuilding in Implenia, the country’s biggest building services group. Between late 2006 and 2007, Laxey used different banks to “warehouse” contracts for difference in Implenia. Under Swiss law, holdings in derivatives are subject to the same rules of disclosure as normal shares. Laxey, which denies any transgression, could face criminal prosecution.
Hirco does not need lectures from Laxey. And if we’re serious about the City learning lessons and moving forward, we should take a long, hard look at Laxey and its fellow activists. …..”
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/troublemaking-investors-have-left-us-all-in-a-mess-6872819.html
Seems like a good business fit for TRFC.
StevieBC says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 17:19
2 0 Rate This
Why would a player sign for TRFC ?
—————————————————————
Maybe their agents read what’s written in the press and listen to what’s said on the radio? In that world everything at TRFC is rosey (not covered in horse manure). (:
Debts to Ukio (in liquidation proceedings) £15M – secured on Tynecastle
Debts to UBIG (close to administration) £10M – second ranking security and floating charge
Debt to HMRC £1.5M (agreed monthly repayment scheme over next 2 to 3 years)
A projected cashflow deficit of £2.5M for 2013/14 (equates to about one third of likely income)
The deficit is mainly due to interest payments on the above debts and repayment to HMRC (previously interest was simply accrued and added to the debt)
Early sales of STs for 2013/14 (started 8th March) means that the bulk of the money received is already spent.
The formal insolvency of UBIG in the next couple of weeks may trigger an SPL imposed penalty of 15 points for being part of a Group Undertaking, which in itself may be enough for Hearts to follow suit. However, Hearts WILL end up in administration of their own volition within the next couple of months unless they are bought over before then.
Unfortunately, I suspect buyers are waiting for the insolvency event to enable the purchase price to be minimised. Any potential purchaser is also going to need an extra £5M or so of working capital to see the club through to the end of the season.
Administration Risks –
A 15 point penalty, and a weakened team, will put the club at severe risk of relegation next season.
Will a CVA be possible? The main players will be the liquidators of UKIO and the administrators of UBIG. How will they respond to a modest sized football club in a football backwater like Scotland? Sell as a going concern or seek to liquidate the assets, who knows?.
——————————-
I’ll leave the stolen money angle for now as I was being mischievous and this won’t play out till long after Hearts fate is sealed one way or another.
You state in your post that both Ukio and Ubig are secured creditors. Does this preclude them from any vote on a CVA?
Will this leave HMRC as the largest unsecured creditor? How will they vote?
My knowledge on this is only what I have gleaned from last years debacle and I was hoping to spark some debate and see if this was really a ‘Scottish’ Football monitor or just a Rangers/Sevco football monitor.
Regarding Charles Green and the ‘transfer’ of shares. It is entirely possible (though admittedly unlikely) that CG is not getting paid anything for these shares, hence the use of the word ‘transfer’. Perhaps this Laxey group provided some additional funding last year and this was the price. Just a thought.
Extract from Evening TImes
======================
“RANGERS boss Ally McCoist could face a major selection headache in the opening weeks of the new season if plans for league reconstruction are voted through next week.
The Ibrox manager is currently in the process of building his squad for the Second Division campaign while working under a transfer embargo that was placed on the club by the sfa last year.
The Third Division champions had hoped to find a way round the red tape by fielding any new players as trialists in matches until September 1…”
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/gers-boss-ally-mccoist-could-be-set-for-a-red-tape-false-start-in-126436n.21263184
==========================
Yet more nonsense from the Scottish MSM.
Now ‘punishment’ can be conveniently replaced with ‘red tape’.
And no ‘journalist’ has put his name to the above piece.
ozyhibby says: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 17:57
You state in your post that both Ukio and Ubig are secured creditors. Does this preclude them from any vote on a CVA?
Will this leave HMRC as the largest unsecured creditor? How will they vote?
My knowledge on this is only what I have gleaned from last years debacle and I was hoping to spark some debate and see if this was really a ‘Scottish’ Football monitor or just a Rangers/Sevco football monitor.
——————————————
From the last assignation of security to Ukio Bankas, the figure quoted on the document was £6.8M. I’ve just re-read the form which indicates that Ukio also have a floating charge over all assets.
The ranking is: 1) Ukio’s Standard Security, 2) Ukio’s Floating Charge, 3) UBIG’s Floating Charge
I would read that as £6.8M as the amount of Ukio’s secured debt. If, for example Tynecastle and the other bits of land were sold for £5M, Ukio would have first call on the next £1.8M from other assets. The remainder of the debt £8.2M would be unsecured.
Assuming there were sufficient assets to satisfy Ukio’s £6.8M in full, then UBIG would exercise their floating charge of anything that is left. Realistically, there will be no assets left after Ukio take what they can, thus the whole of UBIG’s debt would effectively be unsecured.
My understanding is that Ukio and UBIG would then be able to vote on the basis of their unsecured debt values and be able to outvote HMRC.
When I make reference to Ukio and UBIG taking what they can, it will be their respective administrators who would be calling the shots and not Vlad or any other shareholder.
CF has provided an updated list of EBT sub trust names and numbers
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rklql1
From CF
EBT assigned to RFC and sub trust number – Excludes MIH
x denotes previously unknown
Alan Hutton 99
Alex McLeish 29
Alex Rae 79
Andre Kanchelskis 34
Andrew Dickson 53
Andy Watson 45 x
Arthur Numann 15
Barry Ferguson 6
Bert Konterman 51
Bert Van Lingen 30
Billy Dodds 44
Bob Malcolm 93
Bob Reilly 10
Brahim Hemdani 87 x
Campbell Ogilvie 26
Carlos Cuellar 109
Chris Burke 94
Christian Nerlinger 5
Claudio Canniggia 11
Craig Moore 12
Dado Prso 73
Dan Eggan 47
Daniel Cousin 108 x
David Jolliffe 80 x
Dick Advocaat 43
Douglas Odam 25
Dragan Mladenovic 76 x
Egil Ostenstad 62
Emerson Costa 58 x
Federico Nieto 100
Fernando Ricksen 83
Gavin Rae 65
George Adams 89
Graeme Souness 2
Gregory Vignal 81
Ian McGuinness 71
Ian Murray 90
Jan Wouters 52
Jean Alain Boumsong 63
Jerome Bonnissel 48
Jesper Christiansen 64
Joel Le Hir 107
John Greig 40
John McClelland 46
Jose KarlPierre Fan Fan 88 x
Julien Rodrigues 92
Kevin Muscat 36
Kris Boyd 102
Libar Sionko 105
Lorenzo Amoruso 16
Martin Bain 8
Marvin Andrews 75
Maurice Ross 86
Michael Arteta 38
Michael Ball 7
Michael Mols 56
Nacho Novo 72
Neil McCann 13
Nick Peel 9 x
Nuno Capucho 59
Olivier Bernard 96
Paolo Vanoli 61
Paul LeGuen 103
Pedro Mendes 110
Peter Lovenkrands 57
Ronald De Boer 35
Ronald Waterreus 91
Russell Latapy 17 x
Sasa Papac 112
Shota Averladze 14 x
Sitirios Kyriakos 82
Stefan Klos 28
Stephane Wiertelak 106
Steven Davis 111
Steven Smith 101
Steven Thomson 50
Tero Pentilla 33
Thomas Buffel 84
Tommy McLean 69 x
Tore Andre Flo 37
Walter Smith 4 x
Yves Colleau 104
Zurab Kizanishvili 60
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 18:37
CF has provided an updated list of EBT sub trust names and numbers
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rklql1
==================================
So Smith is ‘confirmed’ as a recipient – but still no mention of McCoist ?
I can’t imagine that as a long-term high earner, he would not have participated in EBT’s.
Is this a deliberate omission, by CF or others ?
FFS…Tommy McLean?
WTF?
sorry for the language!!!
did he work for Rangers at the time?
My profession is not accountancy so I’d appreciate some insight into a fairly obvious question, which I’d have thought had a fairly obvious answer. Walter Smith (or anyone) has a ‘loan’ via an EBT with an agreed date for repayment, and as long as the loan is repaid by that date the money obtained is not subject to tax. However, if Walter Smith (or anyone) does not pay the loan back by the agreed date, should the tax become immediately due? Or does the 2nd tier tribunal need to rule in favour of HMRC for the tax to become payable?
Radio Clyde are revamping there programmes with some big name changes,they want to take the station forward as they feel some programmes have been left behind and no longer appeal to the listeners ,unfortunately it does not mention SSB ,Hi Clyde for info Real Radio dumped their sports phone in last year and have not looked back ,and their show was not that bad.
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 15:45
====================================
You are getting a lot of thumbs down and I’d reckon it’s because of the manner in which you posted which seems to be more about having a go at Hearts supporters than really pushing a proper debate. A bit more neutrality might help you get discussion going … if that’s what you really want.
1thumbs down already.are you out there Shug.
firpark,
I agree with you, the last few seasons there has been much to admire about the ways well have bounced back despite losing players and managers of no little talent. Re-reading my post looks kind of harsh on well, let me be clear every club is culpable in the slide of Scottish football, to a greater or lesser extent, the gretna and livi situations damaged the reputation of Scottish football immeasurably and stuck in my craw something fierce, the idea the vainglorious ambitions of small time entrepreneurs can short circuit the game rankles with me, and media love in turned my stomach, it was like watching the proverbial train crash, yet the hack pack waxed lyrical about the ‘pursuit of excellence’ instead of sounding the alarm on behalf of a greater public interest.
upthehoops says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 18:47
My profession is not accountancy so I’d appreciate some insight into a fairly obvious question, which I’d have thought had a fairly obvious answer. Walter Smith (or anyone) has a ‘loan’ via an EBT with an agreed date for repayment, and as long as the loan is repaid by that date the money obtained is not subject to tax. However, if Walter Smith (or anyone) does not pay the loan back by the agreed date, should the tax become immediately due? Or does the 2nd tier tribunal need to rule in favour of HMRC for the tax to become payable?
===============
I reckon most EBT receivers were probably asked to put a repayment date on their 2nd contract. (Nod and a wink) It would certainly have assisted the charade in any argument with HMRC. No agent/solicitor worth their salt would agree to it. Only Walter trusted Murray enough to agree to it. There was never an intention to pay a penny back.
upthehoops says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 18:47
“…does not pay the loan back by the agreed date, should the tax become immediately due? Or does the 2nd tier tribunal need to rule in favour of HMRC for the tax to become payable”?
————
I mused on this earlier hoops. I recall that for reasons not fully apparent, HMRC accepted they were loans. This struck myself and some others I recall, as a rather lack lustre capitulation. The implication for me now was that if HMRC had accepted they were loans, then logically some kind of repayment schedule would be attached, even if it was from the estate of a deceased trust holder. As the two trusts posted by Charlotte today had a 10 year expiry, this implies that it may have been a standard term. If so and given the chronology of the other EBT holders (see Jack Jarvis says, Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 14:52) then many may be falling due for repayment.
FTTT may have occured too early for this point to have been substantiated but perhaps the further passage of time may have made HMRC’s point for them.
Can anyone reproduce the passage I recollect concerning HMRC acceptence of EBT’s as loans?
(sorry smug, I couldn’t resist the bait).
Andrew Woods says:
mullach says:
======================================
It’s actually infuriating that anyone is getting away with NOT paying tax on this money. It’s almost as infuriating as Scottish newspapers condemning non-tax payment on the front pages, and virtually defending it on the back pages.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 32m
Let us all banish these silly colours. Full hearing has been captured and transcribed. http://i.imgur.com/uhbt0RW.jpg #ComingSoon
The list of ‘new’ EBTs revealed by Charlotte are worth a look at to test her ‘credit worthiness’. So I have checked her ‘new’ list against what LNS reported.
By and large she proves her case – obviously I have no idea whether what she says is the case or not and I am only comparing her info against that stated by LNS,
LNS did not have listed the following players listed by CF: Cousin, Watson, Joliffe, Mladenovic, Costa, KarlPierre Fan Fan, Peel, McLean and Walter Smith who would not have been on the LNS list as he wasn’t a registered SPL Player.
A few mistakes as she listed as new: Hemdani, Latapy and Averladze but she spells Averladze as that whereas LNS uses Arveladze so I wouldn’t actually count that against her necessarily. Hemdani & Latapy aren’t new but on the LNS list.
If she is correct then it raises the question as to why LNS weren’t supplied with the full list of EBT Holders by Rangers lawyers. I don’t include Walter Smith in that because he wasn’t a registred player unless his EBT was paid for his services as a player rather for anything else. Who knows?
I have had a few pints and have done this quickly but I don’t think I have got much wrong 🙂
I’m left wondering where Charlotte is getting all this stuff from. This appears to be the opening extract of the court stenographers transcription. Whose e:mail account would have that? This is curioser and curioser. Only providing a snippet of the opening section is enough to illustrate that its in her possession but not enough to provide juicy details we might like to feast on. Its as if we are not her audience. We are merely bystanders on the pavement outside the theatre.
Everyone on this page has got a thumbs down except for Danish Pastry. Either you have a secret admirer Danish or you’ve been a naughty boy.
Spoke too soon. He’s fixed that for me.
StevieBC says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 02:35
36
4
Rate This
The implicit SFA guarantee re: TRFC financial stability.
=============================================
Assuming that TRFC survive until next season – and the SFA does not revoke their membership…
If I was a TRFC fan who regarded the SFA as an incompetent, corrupt organisation I may decide to renew my season ticket – but to hedge my bets I would send the SFA – by registered post – a letter stating that I was accepting that the SFA had vetted TRFC in a professional manner and allowed the club to participate in season 2013/14. I would also state that if for any reason TRFC had an insolvency event during next season and my season book was no longer useable – I would take the SFA to the small claims court for compensation for their alleged negligence in granting TRFC membership.
I would also share this letter with TRFC websites.
Assuming this is ‘doable’ would the SFA then be obliged to take legal advice about this potential financial risk – and by default apply their own rules re: TRFC membership in a strictly objective manner?
_________________________________________________________
In our dreams!
Back in the real world, they’d probably just use such a threat as an overt justification to render an insolvent RFC direct financial assistance as well as the covert rule bending/rewriting we have seen to date.
mullach says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:44
0 0 Rate This
Spoke too soon. He’s fixed that for me.
———–
Who’s ‘he’?
mullach says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:35
———————————————————————————
I see we share the same TD lurking coward 🙂
I might be wrong and you might be wrong and if I think you’re wrong I’ll tell you straight out and explain my reasoning.
But how sad that in a site where genuine posters welcome contrary opinion to test what they hold to be correct that we have lurkers who disagree strongly enough to give a TD but don’t feel able or aren’t confident enough of the strength of their own opinion to actually advance it.
I truly feel sorry for their inadequacies and I’m sure every genuine poster will feel the same.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:50
4 TU
7 TD
mullach says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:35
———————————————————————————
I see we share the same TD lurking coward 🙂
I might be wrong and you might be wrong and if I think you’re wrong I’ll tell you straight out and explain my reasoning.
But how sad that in a site where genuine posters welcome contrary opinion to test what they hold to be correct that we have lurkers who disagree strongly enough to give a TD but don’t feel able or aren’t confident enough of the strength of their own opinion to actually advance it.
I truly feel sorry for their inadequacies and I’m sure every genuine poster will feel the same.
=================================================================
I love the attention and with this amount of TDs I know I getting it right – Keep it coming I love it 🙂
You lot have been `smitten`
The `hierarchy` is `striking back` 😉
twopanda says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 20:09
==================================================
Terribly sad 🙂
Still cache flushing is quite an important skill down Ibrox Way these days – they’re all doing it 🙂
You are getting a lot of thumbs down and I’d reckon it’s because of the manner in which you posted which seems to be more about having a go at Hearts supporters than really pushing a proper debate. A bit more neutrality might help you get discussion going … if that’s what you really want.
—————————
Neutrality? On here? Why am I held to a higher standard than everyone else on here?
Genuine debate was exactly what I was looking for. Every last detail of Rangers troubles are poured over on here, right down to today earth shattering news that Hemdani did indeed have an EBT. Yet a potentially more serious financial collapse is about to occur and it’s largely ignored.
Thanks to Easyjambo for replying to my questions.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:50
Sometimes some of us aren’t confident enough or clever enough to articulate our reasons for disagreeing. We just have a gut feeling. I think that is, and always has been, justifiable and acceptable on here.
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:48
“Who’s ‘he’”?
———–
Not you Danish. I thought ‘he’ was your secret admirer but ‘he’ is actaully just a naughty boy.
For about 2 minutes you were the only person on the page without a TD. The time it took for me to post my observation was all that was necessary for your ‘secret admirer’ to consign you to the legion of the damned also.
While discussion on rfc* and the SFA will receive detailed analysis, discussion on other clubs only really gets broad brush attention. I’m fine with that as it’s mainly the afore mentioned that the biggest issues revolve around.
As a multi-club board some issues will get skimmed over initially until it becomes a bigger issue. At least we know what teams will be playing in what leagues next year, after some early decisions from the SPL………..
RE Odd Thumbs downers, Eco I always picture some journalist or other indulging in a tiny act of vengeance, or a masochistic Bear wallowing in fury…but neither dare admit it………..sweet!
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 20:09
1 1 Rate This
… I love the attention and with this amount of TDs I know I getting it right – Keep it coming I love it.
———
TD episodes occur from time to time @ecobhoy. They seem completely random. It can, in theory, be one person since anyone with even the simplest knowledge of how browsers work can add multiple TDs or TUs. Personally, I think it’s an unnecessary gimmick since it’s open to abuse. It can also lead to rather comical insinuations about who is adding the TDs, like this one:
———-
mullach says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:42
4 5 Rate This
Everyone on this page has got a thumbs down except for Danish Pastry. Either you have a secret admirer Danish or you’ve been a naughty boy.
———-
I take it that was a joke @mullach, even though it didn’t carry a 🙂
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 20:09
“I love the attention and with this amount of TDs I know I getting it right”
———–
The phrase’ praised with faint damnation’ comes to mind.
Danish Pastry says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 20:26
“I take it that was a joke @mullach, even though it didn’t carry a :)”.
———–
My humour needs a whole highway code of signposts to make it understood. I remeber how to do the wee smiley now though so I shall adopt it in future:).
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 20:16
You are getting a lot of thumbs down and I’d reckon it’s because of the manner in which you posted which seems to be more about having a go at Hearts supporters than really pushing a proper debate. A bit more neutrality might help you get discussion going … if that’s what you really want.
—————————
Neutrality? On here? Why am I held to a higher standard than everyone else on here?
Genuine debate was exactly what I was looking for. Every last detail of Rangers troubles are poured over on here, right down to today earth shattering news that Hemdani did indeed have an EBT. Yet a potentially more serious financial collapse is about to occur and it’s largely ignored.
Thanks to Easyjambo for replying to my questions.
================================================
Don’t think it’s ignored,whatever it is.
Tell us,we’ll discuss it.Nothing in your post tells us what you want to debate.
Give us a clue?.
If you’re posting wrt Hearts financial situation I haven’t seen or heard anything that changes their status from a couple of weeks ago.
IE,they’re trading independently,paying their bills.They will sometime in the future maybe,possibly,probably be involved in a Lithuanian Insolvency.When that happens then what will be will be.If something has happened I don’t know about then fair enough.Let me know.
So my question to you is,
“What more serious financial collapse is about to occur”?.
Personaly I think the TD chappies are visitors from SSB that have nothing better to do during the summer shut down,eh shug,and are roaming the webb sites ,they dont dare post as they will be found out unless they get some school weans to post for them in turn for an ice cream,eh shug,you could always go and play tig with the Glasgow buses if you could work out their new timetables for something to do,but then that might cost you another ice cream,eh shug.
ecobhoy says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 19:50
============================================
Couldn’t agree more about following on from TD’s if people feel strongly enough. Having posted on football sites elsewhere on the web I can vouch for this site being the most intelligent, objective, and welcoming of differing views that I’ve seen. I rarely post anywhere else now.
I know that until the 6 months lock in expires then what happens to RIFCs shares could be up in the air.However,the price is now 54p with a 4p spread.A sale today of circa £14k shares.Not a great amount I know but is this a sign that the market is getting jittery?.
Re the lock in period. I was under the impression it was a 12 month period. Was the 12 months just for institutional investors who bought a certain amount at an arranged price? Is there a threshold where 6 months kicks in?
Sorry but I’m not au fait with city matters
I FEEL A FLURRY OF TDs COMING ON 🙂
Even I have sometimes worried about how useful Charlotte Fakes material actually is. I was working away on her list of EBTs and spotted a cluster of names: Campbell Ogilvie, Andrew Dickson and Douglas Odam who might not be registered footballers but are most certainly key Ibrox players in terms of admin.
But something else links them as well as all having been EBT recipients according to CF and also being senior punters in Rangers admin. Guess what – they all gave evidence to LNS and as far as I can see only CO declared that he had an EBT on the publicly issued documentation. Now perhaps I have missed their declarations to the contrary or perhaps it was made to LNS and not included in the public record.
But I’ve always believed that justice not only has to be done but be seen to be done – if it wasn’t declared to the Commission then that is a scandal.
The LNS Decision states: The introduction and administration of the scheme [38]
Evidence about the introduction and operation of the EBTscheme came from the
following sources: (1) Campbell Ogilvie, who was called as a witness for the SPL;
(2) Andrew Dickson, who was not called as a witness, but was interviewed by Mr
McKenzie, in the presence of Mr McLaughlin on 7 June 2012, and a transcript of whose interview was produced;
and (3) Douglas Odam, who was not called as a witness but whose witness statement was tendered by Mr Mure.
CF says all three had EBTs but it would appear, from my reading of the the public record, that LNS was not informed that Dickson and Odam benefited from EBTs.
Paras [39 46] cover the evidence given by the three Ibrox employeesto LNS – read and judge for yourself.
ozyhibby says:
Wednesday, June 5, 2013 at 20:16
5 2 Rate This
Neutrality? On here? Why am I held to a higher standard than everyone else on here?
Genuine debate was exactly what I was looking for. Every last detail of Rangers troubles are poured over on here, right down to today earth shattering news that Hemdani did indeed have an EBT. Yet a potentially more serious financial collapse is about to occur and it’s largely ignored.
Thanks to Easyjambo for replying to my questions.
————
A lot of people who post here are very knowledgeable about the Rangers collapse and since this site is in many ways a continuation of RTC there is still the fascination with the story, and a genune desire to see justice done. Other stories pop up from time to time, but since you mention the Hearts case, there is the foreign angle to it that has been talked about, and that is not really easy for anyone to come to grips with.
There’s no doubt that general interest in the Ibrox story exploded after 14 February 2012. So if Hearts do slump into administration there will probably be much wider interest in the goings on. I suppose the issue of achieving success with money that wasn’t really there will then come up and that 1-5 Cup defeat will seem even more hard to accept.
Charles Green claims ‘every penny’ from share issue is for Rangers
18 October ! + stv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxuhxRekOKU