The scandal in which Scottish football has become embroiled is neither equivocal nor complicated. It happened. It is easily seen to have happened. It is certainly not a degree course in nuclear physics. Why then, are simple facts ignored day after day, week after week, by not just the so called purveyors of truth in the media, but the body of the SFA itself, the clubs?
Five years or so ago, systematic cheating by a club involved in Scottish football was uncovered as a consequence of the club slipping into liquidation. This is easily established as fact.
It soon became clear that the authorities had been aware of the situation for as long as it had been going on, but instead of applying their own rules, which would have saved that club from it’s ultimate demise, they chose to enable it and cover it up. Also, backed up by documentary evidence.
As a consequence of the slide towards liquidation, the authorities went into cover-up overdrive to protect their own position. Inquiries based on rhetorical “you’ll have had your tea!” questions were set up to arrive at predetermined conclusions. The post-truth era in Scottish football had begun in earnest.
The claims of corruption which subsequently emerged were dismissed out of hand by the authorities and the press; first by accusations that it was only Paranoid Celtic fans looking to put the boot into Rangers who were behind the claims, then, when it became clear that it was not only Celtic fans who were angered by the way the integrity of the sport had been shattered, the “mad Celtic fans” epithet was amended to “mad online conspiracy theorists”.
The tactic was clear. NEVER address the issue. Attack the messengers. Ridicule them, mock them, demonise them. Despite that, the message of SFM and others was gaining traction and dangerously for the authorities, becoming difficult to ignore.
Last Autumn SFM was approached in confidence by senior figures in two print media outlets. The request was for us to provide them with the facts we had in bullet points – to make it easier for them to reach their audience, an audience they claimed was not sophisticated enough to absorb the detail and minutiae of the story.
The role of journalists is to do exactly that of course. They had access to the same documentary evidence we had (we know this because we gave it to them), but they wanted us to do their job for them? Leaving aside the scant regard I have for football journalists in this country, I don’t believe they are incapable of carrying out that simple task – but we humoured them anyway and provided them with the “SFA Corruption for Dummies” guide that they asked for.
But what were they really up to?
Remembering the RTC thread where he pointed out that genuine whistle-blowers in this saga were reluctant to come forward because of trust issues – they feared any contact with the MSM would result in their details being provided to those they were exposing – we proceeded with some caution. Amusingly, the same three questions was asked at each meeting; “You must know who Rangers Tax Case is?”, “any idea who John James is?” and, “what team do you support?”. (FYI, my answers were, “No”, “No”, and “Celtic” respectively).
Interestingly, for people who needed clarification by bullet-point, they were well enough versed in the minutiae to attempt to argue the flat-earth case and try to sell us the “it has been established legally that <insert something that hasn’t been established legally here>”
Our only conjecture was that they were trying to convince us we were wrong, or ascertain how firm a grasp we actually had on the facts to better see who and what they were dealing with, or (most probably) they were reacting aimlessly to online pressure and not really following any plan at all. Perhaps they were seeking to reassure themselves that it was just Celtic fans who were angry – although I fail to see how Celtic or their fans have less credibility when asking legitimate questions about the running of the game just because Rangers were involved.
Subsequently, despite the platitudes of “print and social media should work together” and the like, and despite being furnished with the aforementioned bullet points, no further contact was made with SFM other than a couple of childish comments about SFM on Twitter.
Facts might be facts to us all, but in the case of the print media, they can be ignored on the basis that mad internet bampots are not a credible source, although metaphysical hypotheses are clearly thought to be a far more sensible line of inquiry!
However, facts ARE indeed facts, and in the hands of real journalists like Alec Thomson and those in The Offshore Game (TOG), they are given the credence they merit. Since TOG published the report on the SFA (see below), the facts have emerged from not just the so-called internet bampots. Those facts have survived the scrutiny of several reputable journalists involved in TOG – and their legal advisers.
Accusations more blunt and unequivocal than we have ever made have been published. The genie is most definitely out of the bottle, but the prodigious MSM Twitterati, so meticulous in their investigations into the occupation of Craig Whyte’s female companions, appear to have run out of batteries on their keyboards. “No answer” is the loud reply, since TOG cannot be ridiculed quite so easily without exposing themselves to the same scrutiny they have failed to apply to the SFA.
If I can be as unequivocal about this as possible. Senior journalists in at least two MSM print outlets KNOW there has been a cover up, and that systematic cheating took place. They knew that before the TOG report, long before it, but still they did nothing. Even now they do nothing. They are now playing a reactionary role – as counterpoint to the accessible online truth – involved in actively concealing that truth from the offline public. An Offline Game if you like.
Of course we are not surprised by that, and as the falling-off-a-cliff circulation figures show, fewer and fewer people are playing their game. Even those who still purchase newspapers believe little of what they read.
The clubs are a different matter. Fans of every single club in this country – and that includes TRFC – will benefit from an inquiry into the handling of this matter. In the light of the TOG report, there is no excuse for the clubs to ignore calls for an inquiry to be set up. In fact by doing so, they are actively embracing corruption.
As we have said time and time again, this is no longer about Rangers. It is about institutionalised mal-governance at Hampden. By assisting the cover-up, the clubs are ensuring that the same corrupt practices are in place, ready to go again when necessary. Those practices which saw journalists and SFA officials cede editorial control (both statements backed up by documentary evidence) of their output to one club, and allow damaging conflicts of interest to circumvent rules.
The Offshore Game has thrown a media spotlight onto a cover-up. The MSM have attempted to bury it in the offline domain, but corruption, however well established,is not unbeatable. We can beat it if we work together – and here is how.
Season ticket renewals are dropping through letterboxes as I write this. If we do nothing other than protest, the clubs will do – just like Stewart Regan says he will – NOTHING!
There is only one way to establish the Independent Inquiry that is demanded in the wake of TOG report. Ask your club if they will vote for an Independent Inquiry to be set up.
If they agree, there is no problem. They are doing the right thing and will be deserving of our support.
Otherwise, send their renewal forms back to them unsigned.
It really is that simple.
http://www.theoffshoregame.net/475-2/
The Offline Game
Agree with all of the above
Except giving my ex club the opportunity to sell me 3 STs
They were complicit in corruption for 4 yrs
They had their chance
And treated us with contempt
I`m out
Permanently
Excellent work. I have already cancelled my Celtic Pools entries. My Celtic Season ticket renewal arrived on Saturday. It will remain unsigned until my club does, and says something constructive about this report. If they do nothing I will definitely not renew. They may well be pinning their hopes on the new managerial announcement to sway supporters. No action, no matter who they appoint, is the final straw for me.
As a wee aside, it is over a week now since Mike Ashley appeared to issue a press statement implying that the document he received in relation to DCK indicated he was by the SFA to be Fit & Proper to be part of the Plc but not the Ltd, which is the part of the business that holds the SFA membership.
Yet the SFA have not denied this and no one in the MSM has asked them to confirm if Ashley is talking truth or nonsense.
As has been said above, avoiding the issues seems to be the modus operandi for the footballing authorities when surely having the courage of your convictions and putting things ‘to bed early on’ with a valid explanation would inspire much more confidence that these people could actually be trusted.
Just an wee addendum to the above. In the unlikely event that all of the above is a figment of our imagination – and I have no doubt social media will be alive with those kinds of comments – why wouldn’t our clubs set us straight?
So why don’t they? Surely silence will only turn up the heat on a conspiracy theory?
The Celtic situation is more straightforward – though difficult for the club. They clearly DON’T think we are all howling at the moon over everything. Otherwise they would not have engaged with Res 12 folk. Difficult to see how they could engineer an exit strategy from that.
Good stuff!
I’m still catching up after an enforced absence due to family circumstances, but glad to be able to get back to this.
And so – in summary – where do we find ourselves today?
Well to buy a ST – or even a match ticket, or not? That is the salient question.
And the answer is – for me – overwhelmingly : Not.
And Why?
The game is conspicuously rigged. And rigged by the very people who were charged with keeping it honest.
And we are being kept in ignorance of this fact.
And Kept in ignorance by the actions of the very people who should be charged with keeping us informed.
Its all gone a bit North Korea in Scottish football.
So its perhaps not surprising that fans like me will be ‘heading South’ so to speak.
Shame. There’s alot to like about ICTFC.
If they could only find an honest league to play in, things would be rosy indeed!
First off, very well put. But secondly, thought I’d speculate about the motivation of our media.
Taking football and competitive legitimacy out of the equation entirely (unwise I know), the MSM have a clear business reason to perpetuate as strong a Rangers as possible. Whether Scottish football is better off without the establishment’s cheating darling is by-the-by – the MSM believe that a winning Rangers are financially vital.
Layer lies upon coverups with the fact that the SFA and MSM are literally riddled with ex-Rangers players or ex-upstairs, and you have a potently explosive mix.
Why is there a pro-Rangers conspiracy? Because it is in the best interest of every single party involved. This includes Rangers (more money), the media (a more prominent market) or the SFA (a more prominent product) and most damning of all for the aforementioned parties – self-protection.
Each back scratches the other. Rangers > Media > SFA, it’s all a self-protecting cabal of money and power-grabbers with no interest in football integrity.
The only antithesis has been from 3rd parties (like you’ve explained), which is telling in itself.
I fear that Celtic and other SPFL clubs are eating from the same table. If we give benefit of doubt to the maxim that Scottish football needs Rangers, then this goes a long way to explain some comments from Peter Lawwell, Neil Lennon and certain other clubs.
[edited]
The only thing left to do is boycott the press while they enable this flagrant abuse of football.
I understand there has recently been an election in Scotland. I also suspect that the SFA are in receipt of public funds for at least some of their endeavours; others might care to refresh my memory.
I’m thinking I should be sending a copy of this report to my local MSP. Surely any organisation in receipt of public funds and subject to credible allegations of corruption is simply inviting political and public scrutiny of its activities.
I would be foregoing my public duty if I did not bring this information to the attention of those who should be concerned about its implication. After all, I am led to believe we live in a democracy.
JOHN CLARKMAY 8, 2016 at 23:31 “We come back to old Wullie Shakespeare and the knowing folly of his Macbeth, who reached the fatal point where, in his own mind, there was no way back: he had to go on maintaining a fiction against every canon of truth and decency, continuing to kill others rather than admit guilt.”
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The Shakespearean tragedy that comes to my mind concerning this farrago currently is Titus Andronicus.
It is a bloody tale of deception and corruption.
One of the main female characters (I googled it for recollection; Lavinia) is raped and to prevent her identifying the perpetrators, her hands and her tongue are cut off. It really is extraordinarily brutal in a way that Wullie had a particular talent for.
He doesn’t really do happy endings but there is some kind of comeuppance for the perpetrators. More gore and dead bodies that bring closure to the narrative.
No matter how well you construct a plan it will forever have flaws. In the absence of the ability to foretell the future with ultimate accuracy there is aye the likelihood that retrospect will make a fool of us all. The bigger the crime the bigger the lie; and big lies are generally fashioned to be more credible. However if you were to risk assess the current predicament then the odds for the occurrence of a catastrophe must be getting ever shorter.
If there are no prudent men in the SFA then perhaps such prudence might be found outwith it and if so it might turn its attention on how to manage the credible scenario that the SFA will shortly be found truly wanting in the capability to perform its existential functions. Its one thing undermining the credibility of the national sport but to have no Plan B for the eventuality that it all falls to bits might be seen as careless rather than unfortunate.
Took me ages to get onto this site and then to log in. Something wrong?
Anyway thanks BP very interesting Post.
I am really busy just now, working though retired and watching grandweans when not at work
I spread the word by mouth as no time for anything else.
Keep up the great work
Re what I believe many if us think isTHE story in our game just now…..Below is a tweet from the BBC and a few comments from me. Naturally, Kenny Mc has not replied to either of my TweetsYou really wonder just how far the fans will be ignored.This reply from the BBC shows what we are up against.
Not convinced anything worth discussing. Dearie, dearie me.
Kenny Macintyre (@bbckennymac)09/05/2016 18:11@Sevcositcom @theoffshoregame …….At this stage, we are not convinced there’s enough in it to be worthy of discussion on our programme.
JIm51 (@jimmci51)09/05/2016 18:24@bbckennymac @Sevcositcom @theoffshoregame you’re surely kidding! It’s THE story. WHY not discuss? Craven,pathetic decision. #BBCSportsound
JIm51 (@jimmci51)09/05/2016 18:26@bbckennymac @Sevcositcom @theoffshoregame To be clear if I call will I be cut off if I raise this topic or simply not be put through?
Jimmci
If the story becomes “mass boycott of STs” then it will get aired.
BP
To buy or not to buy STs is, at present, not the issue. Any attempt to use financial muscle is a waste of time while the numbers in the know are so few. You said so yourself BP when you printed the conversation you overheard at the game on Sunday.
We are fooling ourselves into thinking that the knowledge is widespread. Because we sit on this site and the only thing everyone is discussing is SFA malfeasance we believe we are in the outside world when we are not. We are a relatively small group reading what is written in our bubble and believing this is what the discussions are about in every pub and club in the country. It is not.
If everyone on here who currently has a season book refuses to renew it will not be noticed. Sure it will create a slight increase in the non renewal numbers that happen every year but your seats will be filled. Until we engage with thousands more we are going nowhere.
How many people do you reckon have read the offshore game and how many of them are season ticket holders?
Tomorrow I am going to gen up on how to go about setting up a crowd funding venture. I think we now have something that can be put on a billboard poster. We can advertise the offshore game report. We need to be catching peoples attention. If we don’t we will still be sitting here bitchin’ about this at Xmas.
I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the above statement. Does that then mean that any level of systematic cheating will be ignored by these people, as long as Rangers benefit? Where does it end, and how could they possibly get any enjoyment from something they knew was rigged?
Well maybe someone should out these Senior journalists and their rags then all will know as if we couldn’t have a stab at it already.
REIVERMAY 9, 2016 at 19:13
========================
I agree. There was no hiding place in 2012. The old Rangers had lost its licence to participate due to its liquidation. There was nowhere for the new Rangers to play, let alone one of the top two leagues. The new Rangers couldn’t be sneaked in behind everyone’s back, and the authorities had no option but to try and brass it out and get the new Rangers into the Championship at least. As this happened around season ticket renewal time, and the mainstream media were trying all they could to assist, it became the perfect storm for fans of all clubs to give a resounding no, and the clubs had no option but to act. If the media were prepared to ask serious questions about Resolution 12 or the T.O.G report it would create the same opportunity. No chance of that.
shugMay 9, 2016 at 19:35
___________________________________________________________
Aye Shug. Don’t want to an Ally but get rid of the vacuum…
BIG PINKMAY 9, 2016 at 18:51
Sorry, BP, but on this occasion I disagree.
as long as 45k buy season tickets at Ibrox my view is the SMSM would consider it a job well done if there mass defections elsewhere. That’s the real and present danger since mass defections will simply be an added bonus.
the remit seems to be fill Ibrox, peddle good news to the Govan people and to hell with every other club in Scotland.
I have just sent an email to my club, Celtic, asking them to do one of two things.
Lobby and support, for an independent inquiry as per the TOG report. (I attached the report) …or
Point out any factual inaccuracies they find in the report.
Jiimci
I take your point, but in the knowledge that our clubs have assisted the cover up, I don’t see the relevance of the numbers taken up at Ibrox to our decision to disengage..
If your point is that TRFC would be better placed to win things, then that is exactly the argument put forward to me by a club official several weeks ago, and it is emotional blackmail on their part. It is also futile because I have no emotional attachment to participants in a sport who have no regard for the sport themselves.
Whoever wins a bent competition is welcome to it. There is little credit available from prevailing in a corrupt sport, unless you convince yourself that it’s not really corrupt at all.
Nor is it even a question of degree. You can’t be a little bit corrupt, and integrity can’t be picked from low-hanging branches leaving the more difficult to get at aspects to wither.
I am a Celtic fan, but I don’t follow them blindly and without reservation. My allegiance to Celtic is over if they knowingly participate in such a contest, knowingly piss all over sporting integrity. If my club refuses to stand up for what is right, then in my view they have broken my trust. I won’t have walked away from them – they will have done the walking. I think many of us across the football spectrum feel the same way.
In that sense, Rangers or anyone else can win the next 100 consecutive titles for all I care. I will have no skin in the game.
Riever,
Perhaps you are uncomfortable with not renewing your ST, and I understand that. I share your discomfort – have been sharing it for a year or two in fact. However the resentment I would suffer from if I were to renew under these circumstances is far greater than that. So it is a relatively simple decision for me. As far as numbers is concerned, there are enough people who feel strongly enough right now to make a significant hole in the cash flow projections of our clubs – and the kind of passive resistance we are talking about has a habit of taking on the proportions of a snowball.
James ForrestMay 9, 2016 at 21:31
Ignoreland: Absolutely brilliant James.
BIG PINK
MAY 9, 2016 at 20:41
Whoever wins a bent competition is welcome to it.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Which is why I am out
Watching quality matches elsewhere in Europe has the added benefit that their game (as far as we know) is not rigged
,,,,,,
Incidently
For those with regularonline access to all football games
Helsingborg are worth a watch
They play a high tempo pressing game that doesn`t always work…… but is great to watch
Jackson, Speirs and McIntyre this evening, on the disgrace to the BBC ethos that ‘Sportsound’ has become,
were like a coven of witches, high on the drug of malice, gleefully vying with each other in crudely stirring the pot.
Personally, I think they are very bad men.
Not just a disgrace to ‘journalism’, not just ‘succulent-lamb’ eaters, , not just inefficient, not just lazy, not just frightened, but actually bad, in motivation.
I am very glad that I don’t know them and don’t ever have to meet any of them: I’d hate to have to bathe in disinfectant.
http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/not-fit-for-purpose
I wonder if Barry Hearn has read the offshore report. I seem to remember he was highly critical of the SFA not so long ago. Also, maybe the authors who exposed Lance Armstrong and FIFA would like a wee read of the report.Every little helps.
Reiver. I’ve been doing my ‘ Johnnie Appleseed’ recently on the subway,bus, bookies etc. I get some strange looks I can tell you.
C’mon folks.We know times are hard but subscriptions are the lifeblood of the site. Adverts aren’t enough.
For the price of a few drinks we have a voice.Subscribe!
thank you mr pink on a wonderful piece.
i shall be writing to my club again and posting this off and the offshore article,no doubt to be ignored like the last 2 i have written .
Re the Offshore Game report. There are some pretty damning allegations in there. Given that is has come from a credible organisation you would think the Scottish football authorities would want to clear their name in a court. The media are clearly treating it with the contempt it deserves so I guess the SFA lawyers could drive a bus through it and put an end to this nonsense once and for all. So there you have it, an easy solution right there on a plate for them and they don’t want to know.
I am as pissed off with the corruption and cover ups at the SFA and the now defunct SPL as everyone else, but I don’t think boycotting our clubs is the best way to combat it. The truth will out eventually and the guilty will be called to account whether we buy season tickets or not. There is too much information in the public domain for it to be otherwise. It cannot be ignored indefinitely.
I see no benefit in weakening our clubs and handing an advantage to The Rangers. Their fans will buy 45,000 ST’s without so much as a thought to the circumstances which brought them to their current position. Big Pink maybe doesn’t care if they win the next 100 titles but I bloody well do! I renewed my Celtic ST this morning.
We may be unhappy at the apparent lack of progress or official club comment on Res 12, EBT’s/DOS, LNS, conflicted SFA officers etc but remember this. It was not YOUR club that cheated and created this awful stink around Scottish football.
BP @ 2041
The issue for me is not whether to renew or not as I am not, and never have been, a season ticket holder. I have made it clear in the past that this not a football issue for me it is a moral one. The football is coincidental. I worry though what my grandchildren are paying money for as they follow their teams, they deserve better. I have played many sports, football included, at a variety of levels in my younger years but am starting to doubt its value as a development tool for life. I am wrong there though am I not. The cheating, bias and win at all cost that we see in the sports world is a perfect introduction to the world that has grown from Thatcher’s dreams. Pension funds being ripped off while greedy men get to keep the hundreds of millions they salted away in tax havens from the plundering. Governments who bale out the rich and use the ordinary guy to pay for it. But the worst part is that the ordinary guy lets it happen, and some praise it because of a distorted view that it gives them standing in the community because they are “establishment” people.
We either choose to turn things around or we tie ourselves tighter into a world where we do not matter.
Back to my point. I have no baggage as far as missing seeing my team play. I won’t be depressed if they don’t get promoted or win the Scottish Cup but if we allow this corruption to go on unchecked I will be extremely disappointed. I would rather see every player in the league taking performance enhancing drugs that watch a group of jumped up no-marks rip the integrity out of yet another sport for their own gain. For us to be able to act on that we need to be able to call on large numbers of people so that the action is effective. We do not have that audience here. We have people who are strongly in favour of action but we are relatively few in number. If every ST owned by readers of this site was ripped up and and binned I can guarantee you that you would need no more than a standard office waste basket to hold them. For action to be effective we need to be filling wheely bins. We can’t even aim to do that until at least half of those that attend matches every week actually know that they have a decision to make. They don’t. Few have heard the phrase Res 12, fewer still what it means. An even smaller group will have heard the term “offshore game”. Until that is changed we are pissing against the wind.
Any and all action should now be channeled into getting the word out. We have no access to the press or TV. We can debate, and we do, for weeks on why that should be but we are past the stage where it matters. We need now to overcome that problem, not change it. If we succeed in doing that then they will pay the price as a result.
The question now though is do WE have the will.
Paul Larkin ( who is close to the Res12 people) is saying on Twitter that a joint statement by the Club and the requisitioners is “imminent”, possibly in a matter of hours.
A phone call to the Guardian sports desk just completed and we have yet another media outlet that has no knowledge of the Offshore game report.
They do now.
http://uefatotreatrangersasnewclubfor2016el.blogspot.co.uk/2016_05_01_archive.html?m=0
Ditto – The Times
It’s a shame that the subs are going down Some days it is very quiet on here. I think there is a a sense of malaise in Scottish football matters, not just here. I have read several posters on CQN say that many good posters have disappeared in the past year.
It’s getting very rare for anything new to be brought to the table. From 2012 to last year sensational news came out on almost a daily basis. Now it feels like we are repeating our selves all the time. And yet that is important we can’t leave these issues to rest.
It heartens me when I read of some of our posters contacting their clubs, The SFA, the media. Usually blanked of course but it needs to be done. I got a bit excited about The Offshore Game Report last week and fired off details to the BBC and Private Eye, no reply as yet (except the automatic acknowledgement from the BBC) but God loves a trier.
Regarding the numbers, interestingly CQN are running a poll just now on whether Celtic FC should sever all ties with the Daily Record an astounding (I think) 5188 posters have voted, and you can only vote once! 97% reckon Celtic should show them the door. That disgraceful article linking the Safe Standing being introduced at Celtic Park with Hillsborough was shameful, of course they had to pull it and apologise.
For what it’s worth I subscribed today, very modest amount, wish it could have been more. One less bottle of wine per month. Oh well.
TIMABHOUYMAY 10, 2016 at 10:29 3 0 Rate This
http://uefatotreatrangersasnewclubfor2016el.blogspot.co.uk/2016_05_01_archive.html?m=0
______________
What a great spot by that blogger. I expect, though, that if TRFC make it into Europe that the co-efficient evidence will be treated as irrelevant by the SMSM and ignored in a similar way to the TOG article. Still, it will be all over the internet.
Ignoring local rivalries, it’s almost enough to make me hope the Ibrox club wins the Cup (apologies to Reiver and other Hibs supporting SFMers)! Actually, on a more serious note, qualifying for Europe could lead to TRFC providing us with a number of amusing happenstances, including FFP issues along with the co-efficient scenario.
How Res 12, and other matters, affected every other club. Where does your club fit in?
(Apologies to the compiler, but I can’t remember where this came from)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dhAk4K4f1aaWIZScFH9QpCXx1W8a-802o60kS3BEOwI/htmlview?pli=1#
ALLYJAMBOMAY 10, 2016 at 11:08
TIMABHOUYMAY
10, 2016 at 10:29
I suppose the logic can be officially confirmed by Uefa if Leicester City also get allocated England’s 15.256 Co-efficient since they haven’t been in Europe in the last five years either.
The Bert Kassies site appears to say so but how official is this?
Maybe someone in the SMSM could follow up??????????????????
In light of current events, I have written again to my club looking for information & updates re Res12 & The Offshore Game report. I have also subscribed to TSFM………not ready to give this place up, even if I’m utterly scunnered with Scottish Football
Althetim
May 10, 2016 at 09:08
If a boycott is not the best plan, what is?
With respect, hoping for the best has got us nowhere for the past four years. The only event that changed things for the better was the last threat to withhold ST cash.
.
That (TRFC’s 45,000 STs) is almost EXACTLY what a Celtic official told me – and a rep from Res12 committee. I don’t care who wins a bent competition, nor would I be especially aggrieved if TRFC won it repeatedly. Why would you?
Our clubs have weakened themselves – when they did nothing about LNS, Byson, Res 12 and the New Metaphysics. If it is not important enough for them to get a little self respect, it is not important enough for me to care.
You are entitled to buy your ST as you wish (as soon as my club calls for an inquiry into all of the TOG accusations, I will too), and I have no quarrel with anyone who does so, especially if you do so in the knowledge that the whole thing is rigged and have little expectation that true competition is taking place.
My expectations are different, and I guess that the expectations of our group as a whole are higher than that
Perhaps you are not convinced that the clubs (not exclusively but certainly including Celtic) have been part of the cover-up. Perhaps the thrill of seeing your team each week trumps the lack of sporting integrity. I just can’t square that circle.
No but they all helped to maintain it – and are doing their damndest to make sure it never leaves us.
EDIT:
Just read this back and it seems a bit combative. I assure you that is not how I mean it to sound. We are clearly just worlds apart on our diagnosis of the problem, but your point of view deserves respect and I hope my reply reflected that.
Just been told by a non-posting member of SFM, that he has a friend who is on the UEFA Executive committee and another who is an IFA representative at UEFA. He has passed on the TOG dossier to both of them AND has arranged for a copy to be placed on a desk at CAS.
He thought Riever should know that The Postman is at work – Euro-wide 🙂
JOHN CLARKMAY 9, 2016 at 01:30 ““….. The SFA Articles of Association also have a membership requirement and permit that membership to be transferred intra-group as part of a solvent restructuring.Again the position will need to be reviewed, explained and any necessary approvals obtained.”
Not ‘asked for’ or ‘requested’……….no, ‘obtained’! Like it would be a sure thing.The date of this advice is September 2011.”
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I recall Hirsute Pursuit had a solid grasp on the rule book and pointed out subtle subsequent changes post the 2012 trauma. The implication was that rules revisions could have been construed to mitigate any further trauma that might be suffered by the Ibrox club. The nuance was so subtle that without the full context such changes would have appeared trivial. However if the rule book is being revised with one eye on Hans Christian Andersen rather than on the judgement of Solomon then one can only suspect the confusion that lies in wait for us.
JIMMCIMAY 9, 2016 at 19:49
“as long as 45k buy season tickets at Ibrox my view is the SMSM would consider it a job well done if there mass defections elsewhere.”
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BIG PINKMAY 9, 2016 at 20:41
“Whoever wins a bent competition is welcome to it.”
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Two diametrically opposed opinions, both of which I have difficulty in finding fault with.
Where is Hugh Keevins when you need someone to tell you what to think?
CoT
well at least everyone can be happy 🙂
Not sure what easyjambo will make of the figures but some plain talking coming out of Tynecastle with regard to how the proposed new stand will be paid for. Basically if the Jambos want it , then it is an honest and straight forward shout of ‘you will have to continue dig deep’
Ms Budge is also open about how she is trying to make her own contribution by revising the BIDCO repayment plan to help ensure the plan goes ahead as smoothly as possible.
(Not yet seen how the Council will see it though!!)
With the general feel good factor going on down Gorgie way I can’t see many fellow Jambos responding to a call not to renew season tickets.
Extracted from The Offshore Game article;
“…But the evidence does strongly suggest that the SFA is unable, if not actively unwilling, to ensure fair play…”
A credible, independent third party – publicly confirms in writing – what the Internet Bampots have known for quite some time.
And when Regan – presumably with the clubs’ inputs – presents the annual review on how well they have progressed with the SFA’s main objectives / 4 Strategic Pillars…based on the above…how will they report on the current status of the ‘4th Strategic Pillar’ ;
“Respected and Trusted to Lead”
‘Normal’ organisations should continuously seek out and collect independent data to validate – or otherwise – their own measurements on their progress.
Will this TOG article just be ignored ? [Rhetorical question.]
Does anyone believe the SFA anymore – never mind respect the organisation ?
thelawman at rangersbearsden site in the board and finance section rebutted the recent report into RFC – can someone analyse his rebuttal ? Seems to hang on a handwritten note ?
I was on Facebook earlier writing one of my long winded opinions concerning another great conspiracy which I dare not name for fear of erasing whatever diminutive reputation I might have gained for authenticity.
I found myself invoking the parallels between our own predicament and also lapsing into a bit of Shakespeare that suggested itself at that very moment.
I’ll flip my analogy to suit this particular site.
The quote that came to recollection is from ‘As You Like It’ and commences with that immortal phrase; “All the world’s a stage”.
One of the phases of life identified by the narrator is as follows:
“Then a soldier,Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,Seeking the bubble reputationEven in the cannon’s mouth.”
It seems to me that conspiracies of silence are not truly conspiracies as we would understand them. They are social tropes in the same way that farting in public is to be avoided.
What is disappointing is that capable individuals, having gained some kind of enviable reputation are utterly prone to barricade themselves behind such reputations. No cannon’s mouth for them; not even a punters mouth is freely hazarded. Having climbed the social ladder they pull it up behind them; as persuaded by their new found peers.
So the silence isn’t so much organised (though in many ways it is); it is socialised. To maintain social status it is necessary to abandon the qualities of bravery that provided that status in the first place.
Social status is understandably highly prized. It is often hard won and not lightly discarded. It opens doors and smooths paths. It makes cowards of the once brave.
Although the conspiracy of silence is frustrating, it is also deafening. It draws so much attention to itself from those who have auditory acuity. It shouts and bawls at those capable of persuading and influencing. Its effects are pervasive and invasive.
The corollary to this observation is that there exists here a double edged sword. How are new reputations to be forged if not by the very bravery that elevated those now cowering in cowardice. Grown apathetic and unresponsive behind their rusting reputational barricades, are they really so impregnable that some fresh journalistic eye might not see an opportunity in the current circumstances? Is something that once seemed so stable and insurmountable now teetering on undermined foundations and incapable of withstanding a substantial gust of wind.
I wouldn’t want to make you respected jounos frightened or have you thinking (worrying) too much about stuff. Your thinking muscles have long since atrophied and your ability to react to fast changing circumstances is virtually irrelevant.
Not long now.
Well done Jimbo/Cygnus X-1. Any more for any more?
TRISIDIUMMAY 10, 2016 at 14:05 31 2 Rate This
Just been told by a non-posting member of SFM, that he has a friend who is on the UEFA Executive committee and another who is an IFA representative at UEFA. He has passed on the TOG dossier to both of them AND has arranged for a copy to be placed on a desk at CAS.
He thought Riever should know that The Postman is at work – Euro-wide
________
Excellent news, Tris. I do wonder, though, if, on reading your news, one of the smarter sports ‘journos’ might think to himself it’s time to poke his head above the parapet, and earn himself some credence in a post ‘SFA Armaggedon’ media, by being the first to tackle the true implications of the GOT entry to the fray! It’s surely better to be at the top of whatever small heap remains, than at the bottom!
COT, that was a great post, likewise BPs opening article. A word that springs to my mind is humility. We have all made mistakes as we go through life. It’s the learning from them that can encourage a bit of humility.
The main players in this Scottish football drama have made mistakes, they must know this in their heart of hearts, at least some of them.
Those guys at the top of the tree in the football authorities, the FC boards and the media, are unlikely to be poor men financially. Why can’t a few of them, even one, say ‘sod it I’ve got enough money I’m going to walk away from this and blow the whistle’ Get it off their chests and retire with a bit of dignity. Admit their mistakes like real men do. A touch of humility. I for one would be happy to forgive.
dj7May 10, 2016 at 16:25
thelawman at rangersbearsden site in the board and finance section rebutted the recent report into RFC – can someone analyse his rebuttal ? Seems to hang on a handwritten note ?
=========================
I had a look at this. He’s relying on an email from Ken Olverman, RFC finance guy, to Craig Whyte on 30 June 2011- the day details had to be sent to UEFA. Olverman tells Craig he will return the £2.4m WTC bill as postponed. Unfortunately for Stevens (the state aid monomaniac) what Olverman told UEFA was simply not true. At 30 June, the liability was final, due and payable. So the RFC report to UEFA was clearly false- in my opinion.
Trisidium’ s non posting member(I am resisting lowering the tone but only just)
I am not a member of the group that run this site and so I may get judged for overstepping the mark but I don’t give a damn. On behalf of all on here, including the down thumbers because they too will benefit from this, I thank you. This is what we need.
I have a feeling that we have crossed paths on a different site but there again, at my age, the feeling could just as easily be incontinence.
dj7May 10, 2016 at 16:24
cant seem to post – is there issue – are links not allowed?
================
I had the same problem earlier today. My post included a link, and promptly vanished. I don’t mind links not being allowed, but could we have some guidance, please?
I just received an email saying that the The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists had just made a search of the Panama papers available on line, so I popped on to have a look, and saw this as one of the headings under the banner at the top of the screen.
Leak to Us
The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists encourages whistleblowers everywhere to securely submit all forms of content that might be of public concern – documents, photos, video clips as well as story tips.
We accept all information that relates to potential wrongdoing by corporate, government or public service entities in any country, anywhere in the world. We do our utmost to guarantee the confidentiality of our sources.
Our motives are squarely aimed at uncovering important government and corporate activities that might otherwise go unreported, from corruption involving public officials to systemic failure to protect the rights of individuals. Journalists from the relevant countries will evaluate and pursue all leads and content submitted and, if merited, report on these issues.
https://www.icij.org/
Now what if they were to receive a “story tip” regarding a certain offline game report from a number of concerned football fans in Scotland ?
Big PinkMay 10, 2016 at 13:29
I am as pissed off with the corruption and cover ups at the SFA and the now defunct SPL as everyone else, but I don’t think boycotting our clubs is the best way to combat it. The truth will out eventually and the guilty will be called to account whether we buy season tickets or not. There is too much information in the public domain for it to be otherwise. It cannot be ignored indefinitely.
How about protests inside and outside Stadia? Maybe some banners carrying the message inside grounds at televised matches. Perhaps everyone could take their seats late or leave early. Constantly bombard your club with questions and demand answers. Boycott merchandise if you must but keep supporting your team.
In 2012 there was only one issue – the attempt to shoehorn the latest Ibrox entity into the top or at worst second tier. It was easy for all fans to unite behind that cause. The clubs had total control over that situation. This time round matters are far more complex. The clubs don’t have complete control over Res 12, EBT’s etc. At least not yet. That may change soon. Remember that EBT’s are still subject to appeal and as things stand, the LNS enquiry declared no sporting advantage. Therefore, officially, no cheating (I know, I know…). Rangers accepted liability for the DOS dues and if they had coughed up, that slate would be clean. Seriously, it would. The fact that they didn’t pay resulted in Res 12.
I see no benefit in weakening our clubs and handing an advantage to The Rangers. Their fans will buy 45,000 ST’s without so much as a thought to the circumstances which brought them to their current position. Big Pink maybe doesn’t care if they win the next 100 titles but I bloody well do! I renewed my Celtic ST this morning.
.
Ask anyone with even the slightest knowledge of Scottish football attendances what they would expect by way of a season ticket uptake at Ibrox next season and they’d say mid 40K. Three guys make a similar guestimate – so what? As for bent competitions – are you suggesting that the cheating is still going on? I thought it ended along with Rangers FC in 2012.
There are limits to what can be done and more importantly, what can be said in public. I am satisfied that Celtic have done and are continuing to do everything possible on Res 12. Celtic made a public statement following the LNS verdict in which they stated surprise at the conclusion that there was no sporting advantage. What they were really saying is “are you having a feckin laugh?” You write quite passionately for a guy who doesn’t care, by the way.
When did you first not renew your ST? Again, do you believe that the competition is STILL rigged?
The “thrill” of seeing my team each week? You CLEARLY haven’t been to many matches this season! They’d make your eyes bleed, but that’s another conversation. If it is ever proven that Celtic have colluded in a cover up of these scandals – for there are several – I will join your boycott without reservation. That day may or may not come. I hope it doesn’t.
We may be unhappy at the apparent lack of progress or official club comment on Res 12, EBT’s/DOS, LNS, conflicted SFA officers etc but remember this. It was not YOUR club that cheated and created this awful stink around Scottish football.
You don’t know that for sure.
Healthy exchange of opinion, no problem with that.
jimboMay 10, 2016 at 17:38
”…..The main players in this Scottish football drama have made mistakes, they must know this in their heart of hearts, at least some of them…’
________
They made the mistake of being caught, certainly , Jimbo.
But misleading the UEFA Licensing Committee, doing a dirty deal with CG, and concealing evidence from the Nimmo Smith enquiry were calculated acts intended to deceive us all.
There can be no forgiveness until there is confession, repentance and the correction of the record.
I think, though, that hell will freeze over with them in it, before the men we are speaking of would ever own up to any wrongdoing.
I should be very surprised if there are not already little chats taking place to ensure that if the new club wins the Scottish Cup they will not be treated as a new club in European competitions.
Ok tris just subscribed from my paypal account username shug_mac7 just so you know it’s same guy lol but i prefer this profile pic.
To be honest JC I was thinking more of club boardroom people who were/are in the loop, people like Turnbull Hutton who would stand up and be counted. The SFA, SPFL, the media seem to be a lost cause. It would take a ‘road to Damascus’ moment for them to see the light. As individuals they tread a dangerous journey within themselves, to keep denying the truth is a terrible burden.
Just in case I sound a bit soft, I hope they are all found out in an independent inquiery Sacked and lose their 5 star pensions. They were well warned by the bampots.
NEEPHEIDMAY 10, 2016 at 18:52
=========================
As I understand it a tax assessment from HMRC is a legally enforceable debt as soon as it is raised. The fact that they may choose not to enforce it when the taxpayer formally appeals the assessment does not actually change that. The tax is due until the moment the taxpayers wins their appeal.
There is no doubt in my mind that Rangers were due to pay outstanding social taxes at the relevant times. What lies their employees may have told to the authorities doesn’t really change that.
neepheid
May 10, 2016 at 18:52
Neepheid, that’s not how I interpreted the Lawman’s claims on the Bear’s Den. I don’t think he was suggesting that Rangers had or hadn’t told the truth about the overdue tax (WTC) – I read his piece as him interpreting the FFP rules as meaning that it didn’t matter if they had overdue payables, as long as they notified UEFA of them. I interpreted that he was inferring that Olverman’s email “disclosing the overdue payable” was enough to mean that UEFA would allow them the licence.
I read his piece as him interpreting from the rules that disclosure alone was enough, inferring same from Article 66 paras 2 and 4 which he quoted.
I think he is completely wrong in his interpretation. He ignores Article 66 para 6, which refers back to Article 62 para 4 wherein the true crux of the matter lies – “iv) Indicator 4: Overdue payables The licensee has overdue payables as of 30 June of the year that the UEFA club competitions commence as further defined in Articles 65 and 66.”
I think his blinkers are making him read Article 66 incorrectly, leading him to think that overdue payables (WTC) are acceptable to UEFA as long as you’ve let them know. Specifically I think he has misinterpreted Article 66 para 6 and hasn’t realised it relates back to a breach of Article 62 para 4. I think he has thought the wording of Article 66 para 6 “If the licensee is in breach of indicator 4 as defined in Article 62(3),…” relates to indicator 4 of Article 66 and assumes that Olverman’s email disclosing the overdue payables fulfils Article 66 para 4 and, therefore, is enough to get them a licence.
My understanding is that the FFP’s aim is to discourage unpaid tax, so the chances of them taking the Lawman’s approach (i.e. it’s okay not to pay tax as long as you tell us you’re not paying it) is highly unlikely.
I hope that isn’t too complicated and makes some sense. Perhaps you could revisit the Lawman’s article and the FFP rules and let me know if you agree with my take on his article and with my rebuttal of his rebuttal?
NAWLITEMAY 10, 2016 at 21:38
“My understanding is that the FFP’s aim is to discourage unpaid tax, so the chances of them taking the Lawman’s approach (i.e. it’s okay not to pay tax as long as you tell us you’re not paying it) is highly unlikely.”
————————————
Common sense coming through loud and clear.
Thanks for taking the trouble to read the relevant articles and post up the appropriate excerpts.
Charlotte Fakeovers posted a lot of correspondence covering these aspects which I don’t have to hand at the moment. The implications of subjudice are too complex for me to navigate so I would be reluctant to repost currently. However I may be able to provide a precis of pertinent content over the weekend.
wottpi May 10, 2016 at 16:18
Not sure what easyjambo will make of the figures but some plain talking coming out of Tynecastle with regard to how the proposed new stand will be paid for. Basically if the Jambos want it , then it is an honest and straight forward shout of ‘you will have to continue dig deep’
Ms Budge is also open about how she is trying to make her own contribution by revising the BIDCO repayment plan to help ensure the plan goes ahead as smoothly as possible. (Not yet seen how the Council will see it though!!)
With the general feel good factor going on down Gorgie way I can’t see many fellow Jambos responding to a call not to renew season tickets.
==========================
First of all, let me say that I am delighted to see that FoH will consult their membership with regard to the new deal. Much of the angst could have been avoided if FoH had simply said, when asked previously, that any amendment to the current deal or implementation of a new deal would require to be approved by the membership. It is a change of stance from both the club and FoH from their stated positions at their respective AGMs in December, when it appeared that a deal had already been agreed between the two parties.
Personally I would have rather seen the club and FOH stick with the original deal which would have seen FoH acquire ownership in approx 18 months time. However I will be content to proceed with the new plan if that is what the membership votes for. I also made a promise in an email to FoH Chairman, Brian Cormack, that I would increase my pledge if FoH consulted with its members over such changes. I will now keep that promise.
The deal will see the total amount required to be handed over to the club before fan ownership is achieved increase from an initial £6.3M to something in excess of £9.5M. That is one hell of a commitment from the fans.
Despite what FoH says about denying that this is a move away from their core objectives, I think it is. FOH had two original priorities that I shared. 1) to save the club and 2) acquire a controlling share of the club.
1) has already been completed as far as I’m concerned
2) is being kicked down the road a bit to allow funds to be used for a capital project.
Sure there are always things that a club can spend it’s money on, but the reality is that the club already has surplus funds of £3M as a result of FoH injecting £4M+ to date, better than expected crowds and a windfall transfer fee. As a business it is now breaking even (without FoH funds), just two years after exiting administration.
FoH has lowered the priority of acquiring ownership in favour of funding the new stand. I think that change is wrong as ownership was a cornerstone of FoH’s whole existence, but as I mentioned earlier I will go along with the majority. I think that it is probably a joint decision of Ann Budge and the FoH Board as to how best to keep the flow of FoH funds going for as long as possible. Delaying “fan ownership” keeps the carrot dangling in front of the pledgers so that they will keep their cash coming into the club. There are risks involved with that approach which are acknowledged by FoH.
I like the idea of debentures but I am also concerned that that it is the same group of fans are going to be asked to buy debentures (ST holders/ FoH contributors). Let’s say that the debentures are for 1,000 of the best seats in the new stand at £1,000 each. The debentures guarantee you the right to buy a ST there for the next 20 years. You will also get a nice plaque attached to your seat and your name displayed on an honours board, but that’s it. The £1M will obviously help fund the stand, but the risk for both the club and FoH is that you go to the well once too often and you eventually find that the supply has dried up.
If or when that happens, you may find that the cause of any loss of funds is more to do with on the field performance and dis-satisfaction with the management and/or players. So I would say strike when the iron is hot and pay off Bidco now, saving on any further interest payments, and still have a surplus to start funding the new stand. If the new stand needs to be developed over a longer period then so be it.
Rumour doing the rounds on twitter that Celtic have contacted UEFA over Res 12.
Hope this is true!
The Court Rolls now show that Lord Menzies will be on the bench for tomorrow’s ‘Procedural Hearing’ on Her majesty’s Advocate’s application for an order re the ‘failure to comply’ by Craig Whyte.
Whatever it was that was not complied with, it might be interesting to hear the reasons for non-compliance.I expect, though, that it will just be that his Counsel needs a wee bit more time, or is waiting for something from somewhere else.
Might be related to the High Court of Justiciary’s hearing on Thursday/Friday of the Crown’s appeal under Section 74 of the Criminal Procedures (Scotland) Act 1995.
Might not.
JC, the only thing I can recall there being noise about non-compliance from CW was that there was something about him refusing to give passwords for his laptop or something like that? No idea if there was any truth in that, but could this be another attempt to force him to provide same to allow them to gain more evidence?
HomunculusMay 10, 2016 at 21:25 8 0 Rate This
NEEPHEIDMAY 10, 2016 at 18:52
=========================
As I understand it a tax assessment from HMRC is a legally enforceable debt as soon as it is raised. The fact that they may choose not to enforce it when the taxpayer formally appeals the assessment does not actually change that. The tax is due until the moment the taxpayers wins their appeal.
________________________________
If the taxpayer appeals, they also generally have the right to have the tax postponed pending resolution of the appeal. I think that if RFC had appealed and asked for postponement, then they would have been OK with UEFA. However they didn’t appeal. Once the 30 day period for entering an appeal and postponement application had elapsed, the tax was due and payable. They asked HMRC for time to pay, but that doesn’t change the fact that the whole debt was due and enforceable.
Was this registration breach noticed by an official during play? Would I be correct in assuming no retrospective punishment under the Bryson Interpretation?
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/669042/Exclusive-Dundee-United-face-points-deduction-fine-fielding-ineligible-player-News-Gossip
#BrysonInterpretation
can this be used as further evidence that the LNS enquiry was a whitewash?
nawliteMay 10, 2016 at 21:38 6 0 Rate This
neepheid May 10, 2016 at 18:52
Neepheid, that’s not how I interpreted the Lawman’s claims on the Bear’s Den. I don’t think he was suggesting that Rangers had or hadn’t told the truth about the overdue tax (WTC) – I read his piece as him interpreting the FFP rules as meaning that it didn’t matter if they had overdue payables, as long as they notified UEFA of them.
================
Sorry, I didn’t express myself very well. I was thinking more of a subsequent twitter exchange, than the actual BearsDen article.
Yes, you are right, he argues that nothing matters except the fact that the club admitted (according to him) that they owed £2.4m, and so long as you admit what you owe, you get a licence. I think that’s nonsense, because it makes the rule totally pointless.
I take issue with the fact that Olverman claimed the tax was postponed when it clearly wasn’t.That’s important, because I believe that if RFC had appealed the PAYE determinations, and asked for postponement of the tax, then it could be argued that the tax was in dispute at 30 June. However no appeal was made, so the tax liability was final and conclusive at 30 June. At that point HMRC had an established debt of £2.4m, and in my view no licence should have been issued.
The Stevens guy was arguing on twitter that because the club had asked for “time to pay” that meant the tax was in effect postponed, even though HMRC had not agreed to the request by 30 June(or ever, if I remember correctly) . It’s just more nonsense, but as seen with the State Aid stuff a couple of years back, there is no arguing with these people. They simply mould the “facts” to fit their own agenda.
Hate to spoil all the fun this evening, but we have had another round of sub cancellations over the last few days and we have now lost around half of our regular subs over the last couple of months. In a word we will be approaching a real crisis in a matter of weeks
We would really appreciate it if those of you who do donate single payments to us when we make our twice yearly appeal could subscribe instead.
Remember, a sub costs a few pence a day. We like to think that there are several hundred – and more – people who get at least that much pleasure out of SFM – and we are still a potent force for truth.
NEEPHEIDMAY 10, 2016 at 22:54
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Sorry, I disagree.
The tax was due and payable as soon as HMRC raised their assessment. That is my understanding of how he system works.
The taxpayer may have the right to have HMRC not enforce the debt (if they can demonstrate that if they paid it they would suffer unnecessarily) however it was due as soon as the assessment was raised.
I think people may be forgetting who HMRC are. Which is the tax collecting authority of HM Government. Whether anyone likes it or not if they say tax is due then it is due, until the taxpayer’s appeal rules otherwise.
The tax was due.
BP Tris
You likely know folk in the AV field.
We’ve had folks arses darn sarf projected onto the House of Commons.
Find out how much h to project the offshore game article on the front of Atlantic Quay for a week.
Seriously.
JOHN CLARKMAY 10, 2016 at 22:32
===========================
Failure to provide the password to the communications device is an offence in and of itself.
Even if there is no material on the device which provides evidence of another offence being committed.
And not to be too ahead of myself there’s a lot of big “things” that can be projected onto around oor wee land.
And
HOMUNCULUSMAY 10, 2016 at 23:52 0 0 Rate This
JOHN CLARKMAY 10, 2016 at 22:32
===========================
Failure to provide the password to the communications device is an offence in and of itself.
Even if there is no material on the device which provides evidence of another offence being committed.&nbs
____________
H
See today’s judgement in England.
CW is watertight, unless RIPA was Invoked. Even then unsure if anybody has been convicted unless terrorist related.
UEFA club licensing FYI.
http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/80/54/10/1805410_DOWNLOAD.pdf