UEFA Club Licensing. – To Comply or not to Comply ?
On 16 April 2018 The UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) adjudicatory chamber took decisions in the cases of four clubs that had been referred to it by the CFCB chief investigator, concerning the non-fulfilment of the club licensing criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.
Such criteria must be complied with by the clubs in order to be granted the licence required to enter the UEFA club competitions.
The cases of two clubs::
Olympique des Alpes SA (Sion Switzerland )
and
FC Irtysh (Kazakhstan)
are of particular interest to those following the events under which the SFA awarded a UEFA License to Rangers FC in 2011 currently under investigation by the SFA Compliance Officer because
- The case documentation tell us how UEFA wish national associations to apply UEFA FFP rules
- The cases tell us what might have happened to Rangers FC in 2012 had they not gone into liquidation and as a consequence avoided the same type of sanctions that UEFA applied to Sion and Irtysh.
FC Sion (Olympique des Alpes SA)
Here we are told how the Swiss FL and then the UEFA CFCB acted in respect of FC Sion in 2017 where a misleading statement was made in the Sion UEFA licensing application.
Full details can be read at
but this is a summary.
In April 2017 the Swiss FL (SFL) granted a licence to Sion FC but indicated that a Disciplinary case was pending.
In July 2017 the CFCB, as part of their licence auditing programme, carried out a compliance audit on 3 clubs to determine if licences had been properly awarded. Sion was one of those clubs.
The subsequent audit by Deloitte LLP discovered Sion had an overdue payable on a player, amounting to €950,000, owed to another football club (FC Sochaux ) at 31st March 2017 as a result of a transfer undertaken by Sion before 31st December 2016, although the €950,000 was paid in early June 2017.
Deloitte produced a draft report of their findings that was passed to SFL and Sion for comment on factual accuracy and comment on the findings. Sion responded quickly enabling Deloitte to present a final report to the CFCB Investigation Unit. In response to the Deloitte final report Sion stated:
“il apparaît aujourd’hui qu’il existait bel et bien un engagement impayé découlant d’une activité de transfert. Ce point est admis” translated as
“it now appears that there was indeed an outstanding commitment arising from transfer activity. This is admitted”
What emerged as the investigation proceeded was that the Swiss FL Licensing Committee, after granting the license in April and as a result of a Sochaux complaint of non-payment to FIFA, had reason to refer Sion’s application to their Disciplinary Commission in May 2017 with regard to the submission of potentially misleading information by FC Sion to the SFL on 7th April 2017 as part of its licensing documentation.
Sion had declared
“Written confirmation: no overdue payables arising from transfer activities”, signed by the Club’s president, stating that as at 31 March 2017 there were no overdue payables towards other football clubs. In particular, the Club indicated that the case between FC Sion and FC Sochaux regarding the transfer of the player Ishmael Yartey was still under dispute.
The SFL Disciplinary Commission came to the conclusion that FC Sion had no intention to mislead the SFL, but indeed submitted some incorrect licensing documentation; the SFL Disciplinary Commission further confirmed that the total amount of €950,000 had been paid by the Club to FC Sochaux on 7 June 2017. Because of the inaccurate information submitted, the SFL Disciplinary Commission decided to impose a fine of CHF 8,000 on the Club.
Whilst this satisfied the SFL Disciplinary process the CFCB deemed it not enough to justify the granting of the licence as UEFA intended their FFP rules to be applied.
Sion provided the CFCB with a number of reasons on the basis of which no sanction should be imposed. In particular, the Club admitted that there was an overdue payable as at 31 March 2017, but stated that the mistake in the document dated 7 April 2017 was the result of a misinterpretation by the club’s responsible person for dealing with the licence (the “Club’s licence manager”), who is not a lawyer. The Club affirmed that it never had the intention to conceal the information and had provisioned the amount due for payment and that, in any case, it has already been sanctioned by the SFL for providing the wrong information.
The CFCB Investigation Unit accepted that the Sion application, although inaccurate, was a one off misrepresentation and not a forgery, (as in intended to deceive ) but that nevertheless an overdue payable did exist at 31st March and a licence should not have been granted.
Based on their findings, the CFCB Chief Investigator decided to refer the case to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber and suggested a disciplinary measure to be imposed on FC Sion by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber, such measure consisting of a fine of €235,000, corresponding to the UEFA Revenues the Club gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
The CFCB Investigatory Chamber submitted that it was appropriate to impose a fine corresponding to all the UEFA revenues the Club gained by participating in the competition considering the fact that FC Sion should not have been admitted to the competition for failing to meet one of its admission criteria.
The Adjudicatory Chambers took all the circumstances (see paras 91 to 120 at http://tiny.cc/i8sxsy ) into consideration and reached the following key decisions.
- FC Sion failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 49(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the SFL not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Sion breached Articles 13(1) and 43(1)(i) of the CL&FFP Regulations. (Documents complete and correct)
- To exclude FC Sion from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next two (2) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19 and 2019/20).
- To impose a fine of two hundred and thirty five thousand Euros (€235,000) on FC Sion.
- FC Sion is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
It is now public knowledge that an actual liability of tax due before 31stDecember 2010 towards HMRC, was admitted by Rangers FC before 31st March 2011.
This liability was described as “potential” in Rangers Interim accounts audited by Grant Thornton.
“Note 1: The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.”
The English Oxford Dictionary definition of potential is:
Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.
Which was not true as the liability had already been “developed” so could not be potential.
This was repeated by Chairman Alistair Johnson in his covering Interim Accounts statement
“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. “ where he also added
“Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.”
This could be taken as disputing the liability but In fact the resolution to the assessments raised would have been payment of the actual liability, something that never happened.
In the Sion case it was accepted the misleading statement was a one off misrepresentation, but at the monitoring stages at June 2011 in Ranger’s case the status of the liability continued to be misrepresented and in September the continuing discussions reason was repeated, along with a claim of an instalment paid whose veracity is highly questionable.
The Swiss FL Licensing Committee did at least refer the case to their Disciplinary Committee when they realised a misleading statement might have been made. The SFA however in August 2011, when Sherriff Officers called at Ibrox for payment of the overdue tax , did no such thing and pulled up the drawbridge for six years, one that the Compliance Officer is now finally charged with lowering.
The case of FC Irtysh of Kazakhstan is set out in full at http://tiny.cc/y9sxsy and is a bit more straightforward but is nevertheless useful to compare with events in 2011 in Scotland.
Unlike Rangers FC , FC Irtysh properly disclosed that they had an overdue payable to the Kazakhstan tax authorities at the monitoring point at 30th June 2017. This caused the CFCB Investigatory Unit to seek further information with regard to the position at 31st March
It transpired that Irtysh had declared an overdue payable at 31st March but cited their financial position (awaiting sponsor money) as a reason for non payment to the Kazakhstan FA who accepted it and granted the licence. The outstanding tax was paid in September 2107.
The outcome of the CFCB Investigation was a case put to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber who agreed with the CFCB Investigation Unit that a licence should not have been granted and recommended that Irtysh be fined the equivalent of the UEFA prize money, (that had been withheld in any case whilst CFCB investigated.)
The CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber however decided that a fine was not sufficient in sporting deterrent terms and ruled that:
- FC Irtysh failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 50bis(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the FFK not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- To withhold four hundred and forty thousand Euros (€440,000) corresponding to the UEFA revenues FC Irtysh gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
- To exclude FC Irtysh from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next three (3) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons). This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of (3) three years. This exclusion must be enforced in case the Club participates again in a UEFA club competition having not fulfilled the licence criteria required to obtain the UEFA licence in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Irtysh is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings. “
The deferral was because unlike Rangers FC, FC Irtysh had properly disclosed to the licensor the correct & accurate financial information required, so the exclusion was deferred for a probationary period of (3) years.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
From the foregoing it could be deduced that had Rangers FC qualified for the Champions League (or European League) and not gone bust as a result and so not entered liquidation BUT it became public knowledge by 2012 that a licence had been wrongly and possibly fraudulently granted then
- Rangers would have been fined the equivalent of their earnings from their participation in the UEFA competitions in 2011
- At least a two year ban from UEFA Competitions would have been imposed, but more likely three in view of repeated incorrect statements.
- The consequences of both would have been as damaging for Rangers survival as the real life consequences of losing to Malmo and Maribor in the qualifying rounds of the Champions and European Leagues.
Karma eh!
Interestingly in the UEFA COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITY REPORT 2015 – 2017 , the CFCB investigatory chamber recommended that both the Kazakhstan FA and Swiss FA as licensors
“pay particular attention to the adequate disclosure of the outstanding amounts payable towards other football clubs, in respect of employees and towards social/tax authorities, which must be disclosed separately;
Would the same recommendation apply to the Scottish FA with regard to their performance in 2011 and will the SFA responses thereafter to shareholders in a member club be examined for compliance with best governance practice by the SFA Compliance Officer investigating the processing of the UEFA Licence in 2011?
This would be a welcome step in fully restoring trust in the SFA.
For technical reasons I could only listen on the wireless today and bbc radio 5 live was my only option. Former Rangers debenture holder Roddy Forsyth and ex Chief executive Gordon Smith were nearly greeting when we got a late equaliser. The whole show was enough to make your ears bleed. Give me Radio shortbread any day!
LM2
‘barges purposely’? ?
Just a coming-together for me.
Derek McInnes pretty up beat in his post match interview. He should be embarrassed. 1-1 at home against 10 men.
Stevie Gee’s comments? You would think he was the manager of Barca.
Measured, dignified response from McInnes. Totally ignoring the poor performance of his team, but he didn’t rise to Gerard’s hissy-fit.
Maybe they should award points for Manager-Psychology ?
I know we try not to get involved in commenting on individual games and the likes but just heard Richard Gordon read out Gerrard’s comments on the game.
Given the ongoing dispute (just another on the long list) with the BBC we just have to accept they were Gerrard’s words!!
If people had hoped for a fresh approach coming from Ibrox then I am afraid they will be disappointed.
As I keep saying I am sure folk get injected with some kind of poison when they get to the top of the Marble staircase.
Steven Gerrard seems to have already had a full dose given the spouting of disrespectful billy big baws comments.
By all accounts T’Rangers were by far the better team and even being down to 10 men deserved the win but not the best of starts if Gerrard is trying to endear himself to Scottish Football.
Or is he just another in a long line of classless ‘nobody likes us we don’t care’ wannabes.
What is all this talk about no shirt sales -there were loads of RFC branded Mandarin tops on view at Pittodrie today. These appear to cause difficulty with my TV set because they were not all the same shade, some were made of different materials and the badges were not all the same. One would almost think that a few fakes had made their way from Turkey.
Since we’re already talking about it and following on from the BBC article it was interesting to note that Billy Dodds went out of his way to play down the efforts of Aberdeen last Thursday and repeatedly point out that Rangers also played then too.
His (Dodds) fulsome praise of Gerrard’s managerial nous was difficult to listen to.
I thought it took all of Richard Gordon’s professionalism not to laugh at SG’s post match comments. Willie Miller also sticking to the party line.
WOTTPIAUGUST 5, 2018 at 15:37
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_KUnN8WpE
BFBPUZZLED
AUGUST 5, 2018 at 15:40
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It takes a class act to wear a fake top to a game when the real version hasn’t even been released yet.
Basically someone saying “Look I stole from the club I claim to support, that’s how staunch I am.”
Not being a referee , I thought Morelos got himself sent off . He got away with fly kicks last season but got done for one this . In a game against us at Firhill , he kicked our guy on the shin twice as they were being spoken to by the ref . I also think Steven Gerrard’s comments border on bringing the game into disrepute . And here was me thinking it was CFC who were always cheated. At least that’s what TRFC supporters of my acquaint tend to think .
Listening to the Hibs v Motherwell game. BBC can’t stop talking about the Pittodrie game and Stevie Gee’s sky high comments.
Comments like that tend to come back to haunt you Stevie.
Pride comes before a fall.
BFBPUZZLEDAUGUST 5, 2018 at 15:40
What is all this talk about no shirt sales -there were loads of RFC branded Mandarin tops on view at Pittodrie today. These appear to cause difficulty with my TV set because they were not all the same shade, some were made of different materials and the badges were not all the same. One would almost think that a few fakes had made their way from Turkey.
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Just popped up on my Twitter and dont see any fake tops in that picture at all. At the most there is possibly 3 people wearing orange and one looks like a long sleeve jumper. Think it was more than your telly playing up BFB 🙂
One funny comment to be fair. The young guy Anderson was asked what it felt like to score the goal. “A dream come true”.
I think it was Richard Gordon who said imagine all the other Aberdeen players jumping on you. Lying on the pitch with 120 stone of football player on top of you. “A dream come true”
Paddy, i agree on Morelos. Probably should have had 2 or 3 reds last season and got away with a lot worse than the one today. Its just stupid even giving the officials something to look at. Id punt him.
Big PinkAugust 5, 2018 at 15:21
LM2‘barges purposely’? Just a coming-together for me.
_________________
Regardless, Morelos kicked out, and if spotted that is always a sending off, the ‘coming together’ would, if seen by the referee, be no more than a foul punishable by a free kick.
Morelos could only be classed as unlucky in that his kick was spotted.
BIG PINKAUGUST 5, 2018 at 15:17
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I’m reading that he said at the post match press conference decisions have been going against Rangers not just today, but for a while. Pretty desperate stuff after one league game, and showing a complete lack of experience.
UPTHEHOOPS
AUGUST 5, 2018 at 16:22
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He must be including European referees and people officiating for friendlies.
Given Gerrard’s pathetic comments today I imagine experienced managers such as Rodgers, Lennon, Levein, Clark and Wright might have a bit of sport with him. I don’t expect the media to call out his paranoia though.
THELAWMAN2AUGUST 5, 2018 at 16:19
Paddy, i agree on Morelos. Probably should have had 2 or 3 reds last season and got away with a lot worse than the one today. Its just stupid even giving the officials something to look at. Id punt him.
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£15 million would come in handy just now.
You would think that all this toadying by the BBC that perhaps the broadcaster is trying, ever so hard, to get back into Ibrox. Let’s see how it goes as the season develops.
HOMUNCULUSAUGUST 5, 2018 at 16:27
He must be including European referees and people officiating for friendlies.
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Either that or someone at a high level told him now he is Rangers Manager he can say or do anything he likes and the media will generally back him.
Steven Gerrard on officials after Rangers’ 1-1 draw with Aberdeen. “I don’t think we ever get anything to go for us… someone should give me answers”. He also says his side were better than Aberdeen with both 10 and 11 men today, and says it’s “a shame” they didn’t win.
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Ok so they never got given that penalty
UPTHEHOOPS
AUGUST 5, 2018 at 16:30
Given Gerrard’s pathetic comments today I imagine experienced managers such as Rodgers, Lennon, Levein, Clark and Wright might have a bit of sport with him. I don’t expect the media to call out his paranoia though.
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If the media don’t call him out, will the SFA? It’s their officials & rules he’s impugning, after all.
I’m sure Stevie Gee whiz has had some training in PR from Jabba himself
For a young Aberdonian to score on his home debut must have been a dream come true and I was glad he said it. ( He did get a hat trick against Arbroath last Sunday though so hopefully a good future ahead for him)
Scott Arfield’s post match interview was in much the same vein . Couldn’t have been scripted , shirley ?
BILL1903AUGUST 5, 2018 at 16:55
For a young Aberdonian to score on his home debut must have been a dream come true and I was glad he said it. ( He did get a hat trick against Arbroath last Sunday though so hopefully a good future ahead for him)
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You just wait,there will be a phantom bid in for him from an ibrox club, maybe round about just before they play each other at some point this season
Having looked again at “biggest game in Scotland this weekend”, I’m astonished by Arfield’s criticism of the match officials re the Morelos red , given that he got booked for the confrontation with Devlin rather than receive a red card for his studs up challenge .
Homunculus
I think that your new best friend is suggesting that I am either colour blind or have a DCK type relationship with the truth. This following his disparaging references to visually impaired people earlier today and his justified reaction to a a word regarding cerebral palsy used as an insult.
So it goes,..
BFBPUZZLED
AUGUST 5, 2018 at 18:20
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I think you are being a bit harsh. He went to the bother of choosing one picture (coincidentally Rangers celebrating) which did not contain anyone in a fake orange top, to debunk your allegation. I don’t think you could get much better evidence than that.
In other considerations, do colour blind people see in shades of grey. Does that mean you don’t have to buy a colour licence for your TV. It must be like living in the 60s.
Its all a mystery to me being a trichromat.
Re my post at 1648:
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/1823/judicial-panel-protocol-2017-18.pdf
General Disciplinary Rules No.72:
‘No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA, shall in an interview, a ‘blog’ on the internet, on a social networking or microblogging site, or in any other manner calculated or likely to lead to publicity
(i) criticise the Decision(s) and/or performance(s) of any or all match official(s) in such a way as to indicate bias or incompetence on the part of such match official; or
(ii) make remarks about such match official(s) which impinge on his character. For the avoidance of doubt this Rule applies (i) whether reported to the Scottish FA by a match official for Misconduct or otherwise, and (ii) where remarks are brought to the Scottish FA’s attention, or of which the Scottish FA becomes aware, by whatever manner or means. There shall be a presumption that any material published in such manner was published in the name of and/or with the authority of the person or body bearing to have published the material.’
Over to you, Mr. Compliance Officer!
Over to you, Mr. Compliance Officer!
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He is new to the managerial game in scotland,and did not know the rules.A good don’t be a naughty boy again will sufice.
move along now nothing to see here
JINGOJIMSIE 19.22
A certain Mr Lennon would spend the whole season in the stand if both parts were applied consistently.
I only hope you are as quick to call for the CO to look at every case where a manager speaks out in a similar manner.
Homunculus
What is a Colour TV?
A lot of folk mistake colour blindness with being unable to learn the name of things – as in “what colour do you see it as?” is very common.
I just saw the Sevco G after match interview, does he really believe that most decisions go against servo. He even said it has been going on for years, what actually happens when people go up the marble stairs?.
Is he so gullible to believe everything that RRM have told him or has he watched Sevco or indeed Scottish football in general that allows him to question match officials integrity, would lenny or any other manger be allowed to say things like that with no action against them
Slimjim
Any amount of whatabootery re Neil Lennon (who incidentally HAS spent many games in the Stands over recent years – including today!), doesn’t change what was an appalling interview by Gerrard.
And his comment that referees have been biased against Sevco in recent years is utterly laughable at various levels, particularly regarding how would he know? The comment has to be up there with the guy in the pub screaming that it was never a penalty – while listening to the match on a radio.
SLIMJIMAUGUST 5, 2018 at 19:36
I think we all know our own club’s managers will spout embarrassing shite at some point during the season.
However is it not worrying that Gerrard has chosen to open his account with undignified and ill-informed comments?
1st domestic game and already blaming the refs for the lack of 3 points. Smells a bit desperate and somewhat Joey Bartonesque to me 🙂
On reflection, the football authorities will have to be seen to do something regarding Gerrard’s interview. Reports of his accusations against referees are getting wide coverage. If they don’t do anything, they lose control of Scottish football on weekend one. No manager will say anything as bad about referees this season. They have to punish him or it’s open season on referees.
And for the first time ever, the integrity of Scottish referees / Scottish football authorities, is going to be an issue discussed south of the border, thanks to Gerarrd’s profile in the game there.
This could backfire on him big time. Lennon will certainly be very unhappy about sitting in the Stands if Gerrard gets off with it.
The phrase that springs to mind after yesterday’s events and statements is deja vue. We’ve been here before and it smacks of desperation.
Some Rangers supporting friends of mine on Facebook are already discussing SG as a cross between Jose Mourinho and Cicero.
The only consolation is that when Morelos is sold the £11 million will come in handy.
I’ll go for the treble before I head for bed.
Regardless of what Jabba told Gerrard to say – and Gerrard making claims about matches and seasons he wasn’t even here, has Jabba’s sweaty prints all over it – it’s good to know that it won’t take any of our gaze away from Mr King and all his murky goings on. In fact, Gerrard’s words today REMINDED a lot of people about King.
Why not just keep his head down and get grafting. It is quite possible to make something of this team without all the ridiculous posturing. Work hard go on a bit of a run and see where that takes you, Instead, SG shows a total lack of class, intelligence and knowledge of the past. It’s almost like new managers are given a script and instructions to blame everyone except the club for their own failings. I fear for his future and I fear that we have all seen this movie before – it does not end well. What happened to the last 3 managers claims against their unfair dismissal?
HELPUMOOTAUGUST 6, 2018 at 00:04
On reflection, the football authorities will have to be seen to do something regarding Gerrard’s interview. Reports of his accusations against referees are getting wide coverage. If they don’t do anything, they lose control of Scottish football on weekend one. No manager will say anything as bad about referees this season. They have to punish him or it’s open season on referees.And for the first time ever, the integrity of Scottish referees / Scottish football authorities, is going to be an issue discussed south of the border, thanks to Gerarrd’s profile in the game there.This could backfire on him big time. Lennon will certainly be very unhappy about sitting in the Stands if Gerrard gets off with it.
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There is not a single hope in hell that Gerrard will have action taken against him. He knows it and whoever is advising him knows it. He will get plenty of media support although the odd one or two will call him out. However you only need to look at Graham Spiers Twitter feed to see the response they will get for doing that, so most of them will probably think it just isn’t worth the hassle. Gerrard’s comments about Aberdeen yesterday and everyone being against Rangers smacked of the same classless arrogance as Souness when he first arrived. Souness had money behind him though, albeit it wasn’t Rangers money, and Gerrard doesn’t have that. If his reaction yesterday is an indication of how he handles a setback, then what will it be like if the going gets really tough!
SLIMJIMAUGUST 5, 2018 at 19:36
A certain Mr Lennon would spend the whole season in the stand if both parts were applied consistently.I only hope you are as quick to call for the CO to look at every case where a manager speaks out in a similar manner.
======================
The SFA once tried to ban Lennon for six games for comments he made, when their rules didn’t even allow for it. Celtic had to bring in a top QC to point that out to them. He has also recently been banned at Hibs for having the temerity to celebrate in front of poor innocent souls who had been showering him with sectarian abuse for 90 minutes.
upthehoopsAugust 6, 2018 at 07:10
‘… If his reaction yesterday is an indication of how he handles a setback, ..’
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Gerrard’s reference to ‘it’s been happening for seasons’ clearly shows that he is as malleable as putty, ready to trot out on demand the fairy tales he has been told by an enterprise struggling to stay alive long enough to celebrate its sixth birthday and with which he had no previous connection.
In other words, he is not his own man, being used as whipper-in of the gullible on the strength of his former abilities as a player.
There is little sign that those former skills are going to translate into managerial nous and savvy any more than McCoist’s did.
Did I hear correctly a few minutes ago that SERCO ( them what are changing locks on asylum seekers’ accommodation) has lost about £50M from their contracts with the UK government?
So, it’s not just RIFC plc/TRFC Ltd who seem to use numpty contract lawyers, and sign contracts that not only don’t make them money, but cost them money!
The guy from Serco was choking on his toast because they can’t get out of the their contract until 2019!
Not to make moral judgments, of course, but is claiming to be something you are not, in the hope of making money, as bad as trying to make money out of evicting asylum seekers?
Or on the same scale of repugnance?
Just so we can sleep easier at night there is some acknowledgement and condemnation of the actions of TRFC’s fans behaviour out there. From Ibrox Noise article:
“While our fans provided ample support for the players, and did the club well in terms of gusto, their behaviour in throwing coins and litter on the pitch wasn’t acceptable. The banned songs too need cut out. We don’t like criticising the fans at the ground, but this stuff needs canned.”
Last week they did a piece on the SD fiasco and a fair few comments were critical of the Ibrox board and the violence on Thursday night.
I know this is against the thrust of how we normally talk of the Ibrox support but we need to be aware that there are decent bears out there.
For the sake of balance on this wonderful site.
JOHN CLARK 08.11 & 08.31
Steven Gerrard has never struck me as being someone who can be easily manipulated John. As for his ability as a manager only time will tell although the early impressions are positive in the main.
You left out, whether deliberately or not i don’t know, one word John. That word is “failed” as in “failed asylum seekers” who have exhausted the appeals process in their attempts to stay in the country. One word i know but a pretty important one.
Why do Rangers still have a dispute with the BBC
There have been 4 changes of manager and 2 complete board changes since the dispute first started in 2011. There was a further banning by Rangers in 2013 and in 2016 after a one month hiatus Rangers banned yet another BBC reporter .
It seems to me that the issue has to be Traynor throwing his ( considerable ) weight around . Traynor grabbed hold of Gerrard prior to his interview yesterday , with the outcome being Gerrards car crash comments .
You have to wonder what really dreadful stuff Traynor is aware of that King doesn’t want published , for Rangers to continue to tolerate Traynors malevolence
Must be really bad
SJ
The fact that you appear to think that one word makes a difference says more about your lack of compassion than it does about semantics.
I thought better of you.
ARMCHAIRSUPPORTERAUGUST 6, 2018 at 01:11
Why not just keep his head down and get grafting. It is quite possible to make something of this team without all the ridiculous posturing. Work hard go on a bit of a run and see where that takes you, Instead, SG shows a total lack of class, intelligence and knowledge of the past. It’s almost like new managers are given a script and instructions to blame everyone except the club for their own failings. I fear for his future and I fear that we have all seen this movie before – it does not end well. What happened to the last 3 managers claims against their unfair dismissal?
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Let me take us back to the beginning
slimjimAugust 6, 2018 at 09:33
JOHN CLARK 08.11 & 08.31Steven Gerrard has never struck me as being someone who can be easily manipulated John. As for his ability as a manager only time will tell although the early impressions are positive in the main. You left out, whether deliberately or not i don’t know, one word John. That word is “failed” as in “failed asylum seekers” who have exhausted the appeals process in their attempts to stay in the country. One word i know but a pretty important one.
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What is it about ‘Rangers’ and a lack of humanity?
Even illegal asylum seekers are seeking asylum because their life, no matter how lowly it might end up being here, will be infinitely better than it was in what they call home. Trying to score points at the expense of these poor and desperate people is, in itself, desperate and sums up your club. Desperate and without a shred of honour.
Hopefully you will have the sense to apologise for that remark, or just disappear.
Traynor knows what’s coming, the narrative is being set for the inevitable .
It’s game over and the blame has to be laid at any and everybody’s door except King and the gang.
I only hope that Dundee United remember to send them a Christmas card this year.
Yes it’s a strange one. The dispute TRFC have with BBC Scotland. It flies in the face of everything we believe in the pro TRFC bias by the BBC. There has to be another angle.
And why does the media have such a profound fear of TRFC? I think it’s fear even more than bias, although that is there too. I have called them cowards on countless occasions.
Traynor being in the middle of all this is as good a reason as I have heard.
I wont even hint at some of the stories I have heard about the stranglehold Traynor has over many people. It reminds me a little bit of J Edgar Hoover. Eventually the truth came out about his own little secrets.
From Jim Spence on Twitter
“There’s little point beefing about Stephen Gerrard’s comments today. There is no common ground between the rest of Scottish football and the Ibrox club. The bunker mentality is now too deeply ingrained to change. This will be the way of it for years to come.”
A fairly succinct summary of where Scottish football is today. Oh and an honourable mention to Graham Speirs for his tweet re SG.
jimboAugust 6, 2018 at 10:24
Yes it’s a strange one. The dispute TRFC have with BBC Scotland. It flies in the face of everything we believe in the pro TRFC bias by the BBC. There has to be another angle.And why does the media have such a profound fear of TRFC? I think it’s fear even more than bias, although that is there too. I have called them cowards on countless occasions.Traynor being in the middle of all this is as good a reason as I have heard.I wont even hint at some of the stories I have heard about the stranglehold Traynor has over many people. It reminds me a little bit of J Edgar Hoover. Eventually the truth came out about his own little secrets.
_______________________
Sadly, in recent years, the BBC seems to have adopted a policy of picking a side, basically the establishment side, and sticking to it regardless of what evidence might later appear that shows it was the wrong side to pick. They are very choosy about what news items they choose to cover and tend to avoid stories that would back up the side opposed to their chosen one.
I think the BBC made a policy decision about Rangers and TRFC in 2012 and are sticking to it, with the Ibrox ban viewed, by them, as ‘evidence’ they don’t have a pro ‘Rangers’ agenda. The ban itself doesn’t seem to have limited their cover of whatever TRFC/Traynor want put out, one little bit.
On the BBC’s ongoing spat with TRFC:
Per Ex Ludo (@ 10:29): Jim Spence gets it, as does Allyjambo (10:51).
James Traynor also understands the manifold benefits of leaving this sore untreated.
Cf. ‘Siege mentality‘ (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Siege mentality is a shared feeling of victimization and defensiveness—a term derived from the actual experience of military defences of real sieges. It is a collective state of mind whereby a group of people believe themselves constantly attacked, oppressed, or isolated in the face of the negative intentions of the rest of the world. Although a group phenomenon, the term describes both the emotions and thoughts of the group as a whole, and as individuals.
The result is a state of being overly fearful of surrounding peoples, and an intractably defensive attitude.
Characteristics
Among the consequences of a siege mentality are black and white thinking, social conformity, and lack of trust, but also a preparedness for the worst and a strong sense of social cohesion.
Examples
At a national level, siege mentalities existed in Soviet Union, Communist Albania, Rhodesia, Apartheid South Africa, Northern Ireland, as a result of ideological isolation; while a similar mentality is currently to be seen in North Korea, Russia, United States, West Bank, Israel, Taiwan, and Venezuela, where it is arguably encouraged by both the government—to help justify their continuance in power—and the opposition—to help justify their overthrowing the government through violent means.
Sociologically, the term may refer to persecution feelings by anyone in a group that views itself as a threatened minority, as with the early psychoanalysts. This can be used for example in the field of sports, where coaches or managers often create a siege mentality in their players by highlighting an environment of hostility from outside the club (whether the hostility is real or exaggerated is irrelevant).
Siege mentalities are particularly common in business, the result of competition or downsizing, though here the (smaller-scale) alternative of “bunker mentality” (analogous to soldiers who have taken shelter in a bunker) may be used. Some religious religious groups may have this paradigm, particularly if they are not traditional mainstream groups.
If the authorities don’t take action against gerrard, then surely the referees themselves should refuse to officiate sevco games.
They were quick enough to go on strike about the time of the Dougie Dougie incident or is it the usual depends on who says what, also surely if they don’t go after gerrard then they must go after sevco as he is their employee (I know I know how naive am i).
If he says that after a draw what will the interview be like after getting pumped at Celtic Park??
Traynor being in the middle of all this is as good a reason as I have heard.
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Takes a bit more away from the fans behaviour once again,clearly seen missiles thrown at an Aberdeen player when taking a corner.Still waiting on any statement or punishment when this was happening to celtic players.
KENTES1AUGUST 6, 2018 at 11:07
If he says that after a draw what will the interview be like after getting pumped at Celtic Park
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There will be no interview.
I’m sure something happend along similar lines with Mr Murty
SLIMJIM
AUGUST 5, 2018 at 19:36
JINGOJIMSIE 19.22
A certain Mr Lennon would spend the whole season in the stand if both parts were applied consistently.
I only hope you are as quick to call for the CO to look at every case where a manager speaks out in a similar manner.
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All I ask is that the SFA applies its own rules consistently & without fear or favour.
Big PinkAugust 6, 2018 at 10:02
SJ The fact that you appear to think that one word makes a difference says more about your lack of compassion than it does about semantics. I thought better of you.
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I heard most of the interview between Gary ? of Radio Scotland and Rupert Soames of Serco (uncanny resemblance to Sevco) referred to by JC. Soames in fact dodged the question if all of the poor individuals involved had fully exhausted the appeals procedure. He also claimed that his company had made a loss of £50m on the contract. Well tough ti**y Rupert. What Serco costs are loaded in to the contract costs to arrive at this figure I wonder and how many £m do Serco make in profit as a company?
BIG PINK
That one word is important though BP.
Nothing to do with compassion or lack of but simply stating the position as it stands. JC being a very thorough person would have known this but left it out of his post.
Not the best place to discuss what is a humanitarian issue imo.
Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
Slimjim
Three was no misunderstanding. You made yourself very clear. Very clear.
JINGOJIMSIE 11.23
Thank you for the reply and hope you will continue to highlight this issue when appropriate “without fear or favour” as you say.
BP
Obviously i didn’t.
How patriotic.
Wee football rant for the new season.
Be interesting to hear the comments from ex-players tonight who tend to when defending their teams poor performances and victories, state often it’s not the performance that counts it’s the sticking in more goals than your opposition even if ugly that counts.
The same however is therefore true when you feel you have did well In the game but have not gained the victory, there is no point in spitting the dummy out, if you fail to score more goals then that is the issue to be addressed, you might want to inform your team in training that they had most of the possession, but possession does not gain points or win games unless you are playing to defend your goal lead. If you cannot put a piss poor performing team to the sword, then the wake call might just be when on form teams come looking for points.
Aberdeen know what they have to do to to improve and Aberdeen have seen a glimpse of what might be in front of them and TBH given the differences in playing staff McInnes might just consider one or two and he will be fine. Hibs remind of Celtic of old, they have the cavalier approach to all games and are a joy to watch, but they have the same habit celtic used to have of shipping goals. Hibs apply that old adage as long as you score one more than your opponent and for this are a joy to watch as a neutral and also as must their fans, but sometimes you imagine not for the feint of heart.
Also Hearts hitting the heights maybe just at the right time and giving us the Edinburgh rightful place competition back, interesting times for Scottish football and long may it continue. Heres hoping our talent can remain in the Scottish game and do us proud.
Hard to judge killie as they still play on the carpet, but won convicinley and newcomers St Mirren were gifted a free roll of the dice goal against Dundee whilst livingston got the hardest game of their opening fixtures out of the way, a trip to CP on flag day was never going to be anything other than the enivatable.
Question does Derek Johnstone honestly believe his prediction for the leauge title or is he playing to the gallery and if so, what gallery is he playing to, because in all honesty does any Sevco fan believe the title is there for the taken. This guy will probably when questioned state it was only an opinion, thats the thing with these guys everything is based on throaway comments with no analysis or rationale behind anything.
BIGBOAB1916AUGUST 6, 2018 at 11:45
Question does Derek Johnstone honestly believe his prediction for the leauge title or is he playing to the gallery
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playing to the gallery, Anyone know if he has ever picked celtic these last 3 years?
Champion’s League Play Off Draw.
The UEFA announcement. Nice to see Celtic are still a headliner (along with Benfica)
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2565973.html
Steve Gerrard, Gerrard
He looked like his day was marred
And took that draw mighty hard
Steve Gerrard, Gerrard.
Site closed for comments for about an hour folks. The hosting folks are moving us over to the new site and we need to port all of the comments to make it up to date. Your username and passwords should work ok, but if you experience problems, a quick change of password using the login form should work just fine.
Once the move is complete, we will start to add the functionality we spoke about last week.
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Is everyone in the huff?
BP,
The redirect hasn’t taken effect here – I can’t reach sfm.scot, which may explain why nobody’s talking to you…
Probably no huff’s. Your redirect from sfm.scot isn’t working and most will not think to try sfmonitor.co.uk