The “Lawwell Letter” is trending everywhere this week. To elucidate, it is email sent to (among others) Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley of Celtic on 26 July 2012 by SPL CEO Neil Doncaster.
The email came with an attached copy of the Five Way Agreement (hereafter “5WA”, the deal between Sevco, Rangers, the SFA, the SPL and the SFL). Now that it has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.
I would preface my comments with a caveat though. On the face of it, the Celtic Chief Executive appears to have misled the gathering at the recent Celtic AGM. He was asked by a shareholder if Celtic were involved in the Five Way Agreement. Lawwell replied, “No”, and gave same “No” response to the follow up question, “have you seen it?”
Given that a copy of that email was in the possession of a few folk before that AGM, I have to admit to being surprised by that answer – although even more surprised at the apparent lack of due diligence implied by the lack of knowledge of its content.
We have attempted to contact Mr Lawwell to ask him if he would like to comment on the apparent discrepancy between the evidence and his answer (and I am sure we are not the only ones to have done so). To date, we have received no response. Given the complete lack of acknowledgement of the existence of this anomaly in the MSM, we should perhaps assume that none will be forthcoming.
Perhaps there is an explanation (yes I know), but Celtic should know, like Rangers old and new have come to realise, that silence on these matters breeds deep suspicion and distrust.
Assuming for the minute that Occam’s Razor applies here, there may be an uncomfortable truth emerging for Celtic fans – that Rangers (old and new) do not have a monopoly on dishonesty. There is also an uncomfortable truth that should emerge for Rangers fans too – that as we have said all along, this has never been about just Rangers, but about the governance of the game.
If the Celtic CEO did lie to the AGM a few weeks ago what are the consequences? He broke no laws as far as I can see. One insider I spoke to said simply this,
“So he lied. So what? What happens now? It’s irrelevant”
That is of course absolutely true. As long as controlling shareholders are happy that Resolution 12 is buried, and that no deep inquiry into governance is held into the workings of the game in Scotland, the lie is nonpunishable, though it would be a mistake to believe that accountability is confined only to the corporate rules governing Boards and shareholders; the corporate veil of “I was only following company policy” can be readily challenged in the court of public opinion, which has no statute of limitations.
What all this demonstrates of course is that Celtic have been saying one thing to their fans and shareholders, nodding agreement in private meetings about how appalling Rangers behaviour was, tut-tutting over how amateurish the authorities were, and wringing their hands in frustration at what a sham the LNS inquiry turned out to be.
At the same time, they have done nothing, allowed small shareholders to spend not inconsiderable suns progressing the matter, and quietly hoped that the “appetite” for justice would diminish so they could get back to whatever it is they and the rest do when subject to little or no scrutiny.
Whilst ten in a row is on the table of course, they can get away with it. To Celtic fans right now, understandably, nothing else matters. But what if TIAR is derailed? Not a stretch to imagine that the Parkhead kitchen could get uncontrollably hot in that circumstance. And when the TIAR squirrel finally ends its scurry, in either success or failure, where will the fans attention be diverted?
Perhaps the arrogance that permits making (allegedly) false statements to a general meeting, and (allegedly) misleading shareholders over Res 12 is borne of the knowledge that the parachutes are ready to be deployed when either of the above scenarios come to pass? If TIAR is achieved or goes south, are they already prepared for an emergency exit?
Celtic have two major shareholders whose combined holding is over 50% of the club’s shares. Dermot Desmond and Nick Train. Desmond is now in his eighth decade and Train is reportedly having some business difficulties. Both may well be moved to get out anyway, but fan unrest would make their decision a whole lot easier.
And Lawwell himself is – if you believe the MSM – on the wanted list of nearly as many top clubs as Alfredo Morelos.
The foregoing of course is extremely “Old Firm” centric, and as the two biggest clubs in the country they certainly have the biggest impact on the game, culturally, socially and financially. However there is no get-out clause here for others.
We KNOW there is evidence of fraud surrounding the licencing issue in 2012. We KNOW there is evidence of a cover up over that, and the EBT-related registration issues for Old Rangers. We KNOW that the Five Way Agreement was signed by football authorities in the knowledge that it would rob their own rules of judicial authority with regard to compliance by RFC prior to 2012.
We also know that NOT ONE club has taken a meaningful stand against any of it.
Clubs are saying one thing to supporters and doing their best to derail those supporters’ efforts on the other. We can also infer (not unreasonably) that the folk who run the clubs think that we as fans have no right to interfere in how they run their operations.
As I said earlier, Celtic can do what they like whilst TIAR is live, but afterwards, however it ends, the fans and shareholders involved in Res 12 will still be asking questions. Celtic in particular know how fatal it can be to alienate their own fan base – a fan base that has flexed its muscles with devastating effect for the boardroom in the past. And it is the wrath of the fans of all clubs that will eventually see the charlatans get their just desserts.
Our job as fans is to continue to hold those who care little for the honour and beauty of football to account, to continue to press them on their refusal to deal with arguably the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history.
The bottom line (which is of course what the folk in boardrooms care about) is this. They need us far more than we need them. As fans of different clubs, the sensibility of those of us at SFM recognises that the real battle, the real war, is not between rival fans or rival clubs, but between the arrogant, self-entitled clique who run our game; who lie for fun, who cheat and belittle the sport; and the good folk who make it possible for the game to prosper.
Resolution 12 is not just about Rangers – nor is it just about Celtic. It deserves to be embraced by every true football fan in the country. The Res 12 franchise needs to widened
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
Just playing catch up and was reading the Guardians article about Burys lunatic finances. One thing that jumped out. Having agreed a CVA the owner then failed to finance it, hence the club ended in Liquidation. Failure to pay football debts via the CVA is thought to have especially angered fellow clubs hence their expulsion from the EFL. A Phoenix club Bury AFC has been set up and accepted into a northern regional league.
why change the name? Even though expelled one imagines they will follow the back-where-we-belong brick road? Why do that with a different name? Unless they have specifically chosen to disassociate themselves from the old entity?
If anyone is wondering how the remaining matches will be dealt with – assuming that the season is not restarted.
https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/067_324__rulesofthespflasat19_january_2018_1518083042.pdf
I think the key phrase here is "participate in". If clubs are prevented from further participation in the league, it is up to the spfl board to determine the "deemed score" in all of the unfulfilled fixtures.
It would be up to them; but, I'd assume 1-1 draws all round.
There is no rule (that I am aware of) that would allow the board to void the league.
Just watched a news item on BBC News 24 broadcast live from Cheltenham. Very jolly and upbeat compared to the rest of the news which is of course dominated by the virus. It does finish today and obviously owners of thoroughbred racehorses won’t get ill ?
I can see the SPFL/pools panel determining all Premiership pre-split results , with the last five fixtures being played to determine league winners/European participants/relegation and play offs . With the other divisions , I'd determine results of postponed games as we go , in the hope we can play out the remainder of the season . Or , as a Thistle fan , void the lot !
Shamelessly plagiarised from Etims.
HP
surely per C52 the SPFL could theoretically “expunge” all results of all clubs for failure to participate (i.e complete) to potentially achieve the “void” outcome.
Whilst receiving all the publicity it’s not really the Premiership champion that is most contentious it’ll be relegation and playoffs that the real controversy will sit.
HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 13:24
' …the board may determine the deemed score in the remainder of its official matches '
………………………………………..
I kind of doubt whether 'any club' could be construed as 'all clubs', HP, or whether a temporary suspension of operations due to 'force majeure' could properly be regarded as 'ceasing to operate ' in the meaning intended by the drafter of the 'rule'?
It's quite an unprecedented situation- not even the Second World war caused football to shut down completely!
I think it's absolutely necessary therefore that the decision on how to deal with the situation should be made by a vote taken after options have been discussed and debated at a full general meeting of the members of the SPFL, and not left to the present Board. There is ample time for a whole range of options to be proposed,analysed and studied in some detail before such a meeting is held.
It would not do to leave it in the hands of the Board alone to decide what is to be done, with some token nod to 'consultation' with some members.
Smugas 13th March 2020 at 15:08
… it’s not really the Premiership champion that is most contentious it’ll be relegation and playoffs that the real controversy will sit.
==================
The Hampden blazers just might come up with a novel solution.
No really.
Perhaps club representatives could be summoned to report to the Hamdpen bunker,
where League winners/relegations/promotions – and the SC Winner –
could be determined via a televised, 'SFA/SPFL Dominoes Tournament'…?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51867989
The link to the BBC’s analysis of the situation in England is a bit more informative. It would seem the strategy is to play all outstanding matches asap, possibly during June and July after a Euro 2020 postponement. Reference is also made to the probability of legal action by clubs denied promotion or being relegated, not to mention prospective title winners.
Beyond that is speculation as the duration of the outbreak is unknown, but if this season has not been completed by say the end of August then, among other considerations and at the very least, European competitions would have to be abbreviated next season and Championships too at least in the bigger leagues. A 12 team SPFL might be easier to manage, with a 22 game season.
HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 13:24
oooo
The 1 v 1 scenario is interesting in terms of winners and losers, which would certainly be a consideration. Losers would seem to be Aberdeen, Hearts, (arguably clubs in the Play-off positions if these were to go ahead), Partick Thistle, and Falkirk. While other positions are not mathematically certain, even Brechin might escape bottom spot, there are points gaps which would probably make the outcome grudgingly acceptable, under duress.
It would also allow TRFC fans to howl about tainted titles, even though their own title aspirations are clearly gubbed anyway.
‘HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 13:24
If anyone is wondering how the remaining matches will be dealt with – assuming that the season is not restarted.
https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/067_324__rulesofthespflasat19_january_2018_1518083042.pdf…’
#################
I think you’re quoting the wrong part of the regulations. I much prefer Section G — ‘Fixtures & Match Officials’, where lurks a sub-section entitled ‘Postponement and Abandonment of Matches’:
‘G50 No League Match or Play-Off Match shall be postponed except on the instructions of the appointed Referee or pitch inspector or by the Board…
G52 In the event of any League Match or Play-Off Match not being played or abandoned or being ordered to be played or replayed, it shall be played on a date and at a time as determined by the Board.’
C52 deals with clubs in default. As of today, clubs aren’t choosing whether to participate or not: the SFA & SPFL boards (representing member clubs) have decided to stop matches being played. These matches are, currently, shown as postponed. The decision hasn’t been made (as far as I’m aware) to wipe these fixtures from the list & void them.
I’m sure the SPFL & SFA would like all matches played: that’ll be their plan until it’s just not possible. We’re not at that stage yet: however, that bridge may well yet have to be crossed.
Incidentally, the Scottish Cup Final is on 09.05.20, two weeks earlier than 2019 to allow for Euro2020 preparations. That tournament (should it go ahead) starts on 12.06.20.
There is a bit of wriggle-room available for domestic matches, if allowed by the authorities (footballing & governmental), to be played prior to the first match in Rome.
I do suspect that domestic leagues/cups will be at the mercy of UEFA & their sponsors & that EURO2020 will receive preference over other football.
JC
For the moment, there is no question that the clubs that began the season are still in operation and retain their membership of the league.
However, if clubs "for any reason" can no longer "participate in" the league, then I'd struggle to understand why this rule would not apply if they are instructed by the SFA/SPFL not to play their outstanding fixtures.
The rule is written in such an all encompassing manner that it does not only refer to the obvious insolvency situations – but to any circumstances where fixtures cannot be fulfilled.
The important thing is that this is the rule that allows the board to get their league competitions completed – even if no further games can be played.
From my memory of amateur/youth football, it is/was relatively common that when the weather creates unworkable backlogs, the league call any unfulfilled fixtures (at the end of the season) as drawn and allocate the points accordingly. The rule is there that would allow the SPFL to follow that precedent.
The problem with allowing the clubs in an EGM to decide is that a decision made in that way could be subject to legal challenge.
The board already has the power to resolve matters and get the season completed.
Jingso Jimsie
You are, of course, correct that the matches are currently only postponed- via a decision by the Board.
My working assumption is that it seems highly unlikely that those games will ever be rescheduled. If I am correct, we then need to think about how those "missing" fixtures fit into the determination of league positions.
The rule I was pointing to, I think, is what will come into play when that time comes.
I absolutely love the caption on this picture. Says everything about today’s beeb I needed to know.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51872244
Ex Ludo 13th March 2020 at 14:57
Sorry , all my own work .Had to look at ETims to see if it was my post you were referring to . Great minds think alike , fools seldom differ .
If the leagues and Scottish Cup are voided this season ,so too would be the awarding of prizes and , more importantly for most , prize money . I think it would be fairest to divide each league's prize money equally among participants ie each Premiership club gets 8.33 % of the pot, teams in the lower leagues get 10% . Split any Scottish Cup monies between the semi finalists .
Fitba' eh…… Well known to deprive the ordinary man, or woman, of rational thought, compassion, and laced with self interest, not displayed in everyday life
There is only one solution. The league is declared over, and the existing league positions declared as the final overall positions.
Should the current measures be lifted enabling further games to be playable, subject to workers rights (the players and staff), a mini league or knock out tourney can be cobbled together to suit the available time frame. A one-off memorial mini league in honour of those stricken.
Regardless of gate size per club, the gate monies should be pooled into a central kitty, and used dual-fold.
One fold to be an agreed percentage, divvied up and equally shared amongst ALL clubs equally to ease their financial burden. The other fold, the remaining percentage as financial and practical assistance for the bereaved……50/50 sounds a fair starting point, but at the moment, remain variable dependent on the gravity of the final unknown situation
If it also be possible to complete the Scottish Cup 'mongst the remaining contenders, the SFA do not take a cut, or the clubs receive prize purses….. They play for glory alone, the proceeds added to the central kitty.
Je suis Scottish fitba' fans.
HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 17:31
"..The board already has the power to resolve matters and get the season completed"
…………………………………………………
That's what I'm afraid of, HP!
HP
I read ‘participate in the league’ as hold a membership of the league and not participate in the competition.
Certainly arguable?
I'm not really understanding this .
From BBC three hours ago .
Sir Patrick Vallance, the UK government's chief scientific adviser, and chief medical officer Prof Chris Whitty have made the judgement call that it is too soon to impose severe restrictions at this stage.
Sir Patrick and Prof Whitty have also advised against the suspension of mass gatherings. Again, their computer models indicate this would be less effective and more disruptive than the measures they have recommended: hand washing and asking people to self-isolate if they show symptoms of the disease.
These measures, if correctly implemented, could cut the peak of cases by 20%, says Sir Patrick.
"People are very much more likely to catch the virus from a family member or a friend somewhere in a small space rather than a big space [such as a sporting stadium]," he said.
John Clark 13th March 2020 at 18:55 1 0 Rate This HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 17:31 "..The board already has the power to resolve matters and get the season completed" ………………………………………………… That's what I'm afraid of, HP!
…………..
I understand your concern.
BP
Any of the three relevent conditions ("for any reason") would trigger this rule:
1. Ceasing to operate.
2. Ceasing to participate in the league.
3. Ceasing to hold membership in the league.
The first is saying 'Does the club still exist as a functional entity?'
The second is asking 'Is the club unable or unwilling to play its league games?'
The third is asking if the club still holds membership of the league.
The reasons don't need to be mutually exclusive – but they certainly could be.
If clubs are told that their participation in the league has come to an end – no more games will be played – that (imo) meets one of the trigger points.
'HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 17:31
Jingso Jimsie
You are, of course, correct that the matches are currently only postponed- via a decision by the Board.
My working assumption is that it seems highly unlikely that those games will ever be rescheduled. If I am correct, we then need to think about how those "missing" fixtures fit into the determination of league positions.
The rule I was pointing to, I think, is what will come into play when that time comes.'
###############################
I'll admit to not reading all of the SPFL's Handbook, although I may have no choice but to do so if sport is suspended long-term!
There will be nothing in their rules about 'completing' the leagues in the ongoing situation. Further, were they to utilise/fudge a current rule that doesn't exactly cover the circumstances that would leave them open to legal challenge as to competency/scope. As JC writes, all clubs would have to be consulted & an EGM called to amend the existing regulations in light of the exigent circumstances.
I don't think 'fudging' it is an option for the blazers this time.
In today’s very serious circumstances will an auditor require that any upcoming interim results are fully reflective of this? I’m think especially of any company where there might be an existing ‘going concern’ issue and the current circumstances might impact adversely on their future finances.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
JJ
I don't think it is a fudge.
Of course the rule is wide ranging in its potential application. But that's the point. It has been written to cover any unforeseen circumstances that may leave fixtures unfulfilled.
The fairest way of ending this season, is to play the postponed games when the crisis is over, even if the matches can’t be played until September or October. Then start the 20/21 season as soon as practicable. This would mean a ‘short’ season by playing less games, perhaps not having the League and challenge cups or just playing 22 league games instead of 38.
The only risk in this in this scenario is that some clubs might have gone to the wall through lack of cash flow due to the postponement of games for months.
Paddymalarkey@18.14 yesterday
I tried copying the photo from etims but to no avail. I am however going to claim the pools panel reference which I made a few days ago when we were only speculating about the shut down.
Now that the SFA and SPFL do not have the F part of their titles to administrate it would seem a good use of their time (both from keeping themselves in a job and from catching up with the paperwork perspectives) to tidy up some outstanding matters.
They could start with the eight years worth of reports from Broadcasters apologising on air to coins at Tynecastle with all the singing, objects launched onto the pitch, players and officials being confronted on the pitch etc. inbetween. I've lost count of the number of investigations or inquiries promised with little or no outcome.
Similarly the lull allows clarification of the Disciplinary/No Jurisdiction/CAS/Mibbee We Wull Mibbe We Wullnae European Licence, what's the word?…misunderstanding?; alternative facts?; misstatement?; deception?; concealment?; collusion? fraud?; lies? Can we settle on dishonesty? Covid-19 will be dealt with by the appropriate authorities; so should Resolution 12. The matters are hugely divergent and of greatly differing importance in many ways but they do have one thing in common. Neither are going to go away by pretending they don't exist or by wishful thinking.
What else can be done in the lull?
Isn't there still an outstanding decision on the fitness and propriety of Alastair Johnston? Who he? Ex Chairman of (checks timescale) Rangers. The original Club before we had to worry about metaphysics and The Big Sevco Theory. Either he is or he is not a fit and proper person to be involved in Scottish football so why not tell us which it is? That would allow one Club to know where they stand with…hang on, who is their current Chairman? Is he fit and proper? Doesn't matter if he's standing down; that is no answer if he shouldn't be there at all. How bad must Alastair Johnston's application look if it's worse than a Cold Shouldered Convict's? If the Authorities have any questions they could ask the two Police Scotland Officers who took a publicly funded flight to and stay in Ohio for a wee chat about Rangers.
This break might be a good thing to tidy up a few matters and at the end all shortfalls in income caused by the break could be covered by the sale of filing cabinets no longer required.
I think UEFA were always going to take some action; break or no break, but starting with the Buckfast bottle thrown onto the field/at a player (poor immigrant charity devotee and supercar enthusiast whose Grandfather once bombed a Lodge attacked by Catholic wine company) and the most recent and previous singing could result in some fairly stern sanctions. Sterner than in Scotland anyway where the sanction is the Authorities think about telling them, but don't actually do it, "Gonnae no dae that?".
While I'm here. I don't have The Twitter nor do I wish it but on the off chance he pops in credit, as always, to James Doleman for his High Court reporting in HMA v Salmond. Day one obviously had a blip which was understandable in the circumstances and was immediately resolved. My thanks for this, previous and unless there's an outbreak of reality and common sense down Govan way future cases.
Other excellent Court Reports are available…
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-football-fixture-chaos-scottish-21690859
Lugosi, yes this unplanned break could be an opportunity to address the myriad of unresolved matters jutting out from under the SFA carpet.
Being pessimistic / realistic though, I'd guess that the blazers would 'chap'
on your worthwhile suggestions.
Likewise, they'd no doubt give the following suggestion a bodyswerve;
The 'Referees Summit' in Perth in February of LAST year, where all the SPL managers, except Clarke, met with Maxwell to discuss the problem of unacceptable refereeing standards…
there was no published or communicated, formal outcome. There were some rumblings about VAR – and also about how the cost would be prohibitive for the SPL.
Then, absolutely nothing.
Just tumbleweed for the last year, whilst the officiating standards have certainly NOT noticeably improved.
There is also now a new Head of Refereeing Operations who was promoted from within the, erm, non-diverse ranks – and unsurprisingly nothing has noticeably changed or improved.
So…
an opportunity to get the SPL managers back around the table with the SFA to thrash out a proper action plan – with deadlines – to address both the refereeing structure and standards AND the definitive introduction of VAR, if even VAR-lite like some other, small European leagues have already implemented.
Now that would also be time well spent during this enforced footy hiatus, IMO.
Someone should give the blazers a shake – to wake them up before this unexpected window of opportunity is lost.
Another thought about opportunities in the absence of matches…
The bean counters at the SMSM could use this as an opportunity to review the cost of their football 'journalists'.
Additionally, with a break in media coverage, a certain club could take the time to review its own misstepping PR management resource.
This hiatus might force a number of unexpected – and possibly long overdue – decisions across the footy landscape.
I think if I was about to slap a £20m slab of cash into a fitba' club right now, I would be having 2nd thoughts. I'll wager even Celtic were glad to have signed the dotted line with Adidas prior to the indefinite suspension of logo viewing opportunities that are now diminished
With the possibility things may roll-over affecting next seasons fixture list, I know my season book money will be staying in my pocket for now, at least.
Difficult times ahead, but bog-roll it appears still needs to be paid for in the meantime……Incidentally, Short of sticking a roll up each nostril, what is it to be used for?….Any doomsday preppers out there.?
Does covid19 give you the sh*ts.
https://twitter.com/alexrae1969/status/1238758966970195968?s=21
That's the league sorted. Simples.
Corrupt official
no,it is just really thick people
Does this become 8 ½ in a row?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
tony 14th March 2020 at 12:44
Corrupt official
no,it is just really thick people
————————————————————
I dread to think of the virus spreading, because auntie Isa has a bundle under her bed, and relatives pop round daily to "borrow", a couple of sheets.
Personally, I'm a triple ply velvet soft full mitten multi-wrap kind of guy, and wouldn't be welcome. So I should be ok.
Corrupt official
i'm a whatever is on the holder type of guy
Ex Ludo 14th March 2020 at 01:48
The glory is yours and here's a photo . Had seen neither your post nor ETims article . Soz !
Is this what Armageddon's like ?
And apparently the shits arrive on the third day with covid-19 .
Further to my comment the other day regarding 'bad articles' (mentioned by JC), I'm still in diversionary mode from Coronavirus bombardment and Operation Null and Void – the latter fronted by the usual suspects like Alex (34 game Ibrox legend) Rae, and more subtly the SMSM in the guise of Keith Jackson in today's Hapenny Liar.
So … can anyone think of any of these (unsavoury characters) who may have graced (!) Scottish football over the years?
We don't live in normal times, and that of course includes Scottish Football. It is notable that the media are becoming very vocal that whatever decision the authorities make on this season, that Celtic being awarded the title is not on. Nothing else is ruled out, just that. I am not advocating for one minute that should be the case, but if decisions have to be made, there should not be a caveat in there which basically states 'we don't want Celtic to get to nine in a row, so let's hijack the situation to make sure it doesn't happen'.
I really hope the season can somehow be played out. Failing that I hope that the European and World Governing bodies issue rulings that all countries agree to adhere to. There is more to be settled here than the minds of fans of one Scottish club who can't stand seeing their rivals succeed, and will seize any opportunity to get their way.
There is no chance that the season will be played out unless there is an agreement to play behind closed doors. Even that is dependent on squads being virus-free.
The aim in the social distancing manoeuvre is to flatten out the peak over several months.
Doctor I spoke to today reckons we’ll be lucky to get next season started by the end of 2020. “September is for optimists” he said.
Paddymalarkey@13.29
Thats the photo I was trying to copy. Some famous names on that panel.
Ex Ludo 14th March 2020 at 15:55
Do you know who the guy beyond Arthur Ellis is ? And which of the current crop of referees would you trust to give an honest and unbiased judgement ?
paddy malarkey
None
In a certain mindset we have now moved on from the season being null and void to Celtic will restart their "in a row" sequence when it happens.
So the 20/21 season, if Celtic won it, would not be 9-in-a-row. It would be 1.
This from people who seem not to understand that this could cause their club even more financial difficulties. Particularly in relation to cash flow and how it might hinder any potential share issue. Who would want to buy shares at this time.
Paddy malarkey @ 1638:
The fellah with the centre-shed is Arsenal & England great Ted Drake. I think that it’s Baron Brabazon of Tara standing at the rear.
Imagine (if you can) being a Director of a new company* that has made a loss every year of its 8 year existence and having ……..ok I don't have to spell it out but seriously what do you do ? Somebody in the blue room has to step in and write the cheque as there is no overdraft facility , your loan shark says no assets no more cash oh and it's time to pay the piper . We are all aware of the litigation mounting up and the debts that are accruing , that there is no income but the wages still need paid . Do you pay March ? April ? can you go to Uefa for a sub to help tide things over ? Or do you take the opportunity to point the finger of blame at Covid rather than the appalling mismanagement that has gone on under your watch . Remember of course that the football side of things is not the main business for most of the Directors and their own business' will be feeling the effects of this economic downturn as well. To put it simply , has it become a luxury they can no longer afford? There is no share issue ,there are no mystery investors , the transfer window is closed and the general population is in financial limbo. One blot on the landscape is a 15pt deduction would leave a 28 pt gap with only 27 pts available and hand Celtic the title without dispute.
Just when are the Ides of March?
I can see the Scottish football authorities creating a dispensation from the current rules for any clumpany which is 'forced' into administration due to the COVID outbreak.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Heard Stuart and Tam say on the radio this could be the ideal time to start summer football and if it doesn’t happen then there is no point in discussing the subject any more.Can,t say I disagree but will the Blazers change,doubt it.
Jingso.Jimsie 14th March 2020 at 17:45
Cheers !
redlichtie 14th March 2020 at 18:28
I can see UEFA doing the same .
I know there are more important matters to worry about, but fitba' is a welcome distraction.
However.
Fitba' players are human too, with families, like the rest of us.(often overseas), They, or loved ones may succumb, need care, whatever. No-one is immune. There are no guarantees from now on in, until god knows when, if clubs will be able to field a full team.
The league is over. The Rebels have won.
Ex Ludo 14th March 2020 at 15:55
…………………..
Ctrl Alt print screen…Start, paint, edit paste, file save as.
A long way to do it,but effective.
There were several references this afternoon on 'Sportsound' to a meeting to be held on Tuesday.I missed the first reference so I didn't hear who was having the meeting: the 'joint response group', or the SFA or the SPFL.
Can anyone say? Nothing on either website referring to it.
Jingso.Jimsie 14th March 2020 at 17:45
Paddy malarkey @ 1638:
The fellah with the centre-shed is Arsenal & England great Ted Drake. I think that it’s Baron Brabazon of Tara standing at the rear.
When I first saw the picture I thought he was that Cathcart MP of days gone by, Teddy Taylor.
Ballyargus 14th March 2020 at 22:16
'… I thought he was that Cathcart MP of days gone by, Teddy Taylor..'
………………..
Aw, hey,Ballyargus, steady wi' the 'days gone by'! They were my not so early adult years, and are still quite fresh in memory!
When Taylor was first elected to Parliament, 'Cathcart' was solidly 'Conservative and Unionist'
But eventually, with the developing and massively expanding Castlemilk housing estate ( with a population as big if not bigger than that of the City of Perth) as part of the constituency, he eventually , and inevitably,lost his seat.
Only to find a nice comfortable, warm seat in Southend in Englandshire.
But you're right-I too thought of Teddy Taylor when I saw that picture of Brabazon of Tara (ffs, that we should have to put up with that bloody nonsense!)
John Clark
The meeting referred to may have been the one UEFA are holding by video link to all FAs
While the view that nature abhors a vacuum is evidenced by the number and nature of views expressed about football while there isn't any the exception to the rule is clear. Alex Rage's horserace Twitter entry makes it obvious nature is content to leave the vacuums between his ears and between his brain and his mouth/keyboard well alone. It is worth reading to see someone who has for weeks been telling us that the League is over (I huv tae sey thurz nae wey, fur me, thut they urnae gonnae manipulate the Sword of Domestos and in they terms get over the finishing whustle, even if oor songs they ur fine) have a sudden change of a black, black heart. Moreover it is worth reading the avalanche of responses which point out the many flaws in his analogy and the irony of someone in Mr Rage's position even thinking of playing the sporting integrity card.
Someone posted the other day about one or two comments about Uriah James being possibly unfair. They're not going to like the views on Mr Rage although as it's his own Twitter Account Mr Rage is present and able to defend himself (although, for the record, he hasn't chosen/isn't able to do so).
Three out of dozens of comments deserve Honourable Mentions.
The first is a group all querying in varying ways if a horse dies midrace and a jockey saddles a different horse is that new horse the same horse?
The second makes reference to the propriety of someone (speech idiosyncracies aside) with known Taxation issues working for, inter alia, (E)BT Sports.
The third follows Michael Stewart tweeting that in the current climate partisan rhetoric was unhelpful. Some wag observed that at some point in his long 34 games Ibrox career the legned Mr Rage thinks he played against Partisan Rhetoric.
Mr Rage's moronic Tweet was based on what happens next if…
At the risk of being simplistic:-
At 22 July 2019
The Rules and Regulations of the Scottish Professional League
Definitions and interpretations
A4
Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;
C38
The Club occupying position one in the League at the end of a Season shall be declared the Champion Club of the League and shall hold the "The Scottish Professional Football League Championship Trophy" until the next Season's League Competition is concluded.
Are some people looking for complications which don't exist?
Are some people looking for an outcome which is at odds with Rules and Regulations which date way back in the mists of time to eight months ago?
Wishing, and hoping, everyone well, these certainly are trying times, however, on with the campaign to instil truth and honesty into Scottish football.
Just a small peice of speculation tying the latest discovery of £20m under the sofa (albeit a sofa in Hong Kong) and the cancellation of football due to the virus.
RIFC/TRFC PR machine puts out unsupported story that £20m of investment is on it's way. A couple of days later football is cancelled. (Speculation starts here) The club calls in the administrators but survives. Club hit with points deduction. Club claims it only entered administration as a result of the shutdown citing the now cancelled (because of the shutdown) £20m investment. Club successfully avoids points deduction because the good old blazers turn a blind eye to the obvious lies they are being fed.
Pure speculation, but once again a good news story breaks about TRFC, timed to meet some bad news (for everyone this time) about to break. If they are in as dire straits as we tend to believe, they will be desperate not to lose those points (not only would it hurt their season it would/could reduce ST sales) in the event of administration. Given a heads up from the blazers they find a couple of guys prepared to agree to a non-starter of an investment then keep their fingers crossed…
The TRFC £20m is absolutely real, but contingent on the absence of King. He wants 20p per share. Problem.
Coronavirus also threatens deal. Virus is also an existential threat to many clubs. Motherwell, Killie and TRFC are perhaps the deer in the Coronavirus headlights.
Trying to get @heavidor to do a podcast on these and wider ranging stuff hopefully within a day or so.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 09:35
From what you know/have heard, BP, is it contingent on someone other than the new 'investors', such as existing directors, or are the new guys prepared to buy him out but not for what he (King) wants?
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 09:35
The TRFC £20m is absolutely real
===============
What would £20m get them though, aside from keeping the wolves from the door? The same sum and probably much more will also be needed to improve the team and attempt to reach the Champions League nirvana. There are no institutionally biased Scottish owned banks left. Illegal tax evasion is no longer an option. The so called glory days under David Murray were an illusion promoted by biased media people, and supported by a biased establishment. The one hope they have left is to seize on a world health crisis and hijack it to try and stop Celtic winning the league. It would be laughable it it wasn’t so real.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 09:35
The TRFC £20m is absolutely real, but contingent on the absence of King. He wants 20p per share. Problem.
=============================
Does the £20m include the price they would have to pay for King's shares. If so then it's not really a £20m investment in the PLC. Based on the most up to date figures on their website 20p per share would equate to over £13m. Even if he agreed to half of that it would be over £6.5m
What form will the investment take, presumably a share issue with pre-emption rights for existing shareholders removed. Meaning even further dilution of the existing shareholders including the fans and Club 1872.
If it's not a share issue what is it.
upthehoops 14th March 2020 at 15:04
Agreed that the season needs to be somehow played out as there are fans of 40 senior teams who probably don't give a flying 'you know what' if Celtic were to be awarded the league. There are Euro spots to be played for and promotion/relegation battles a plenty along with a couple of cups still to be won.
I don't believe the 20m is real , it would make far more sense to wait a few weeks and get the whole shebang for £1. If they are waiting for someone to buy out King then they will be waiting a long time , if they are going to buy out King then add 12m onto the 20m then pay off SDI-Elite-Hummel-Memorial walls and Close which could be another 20m , then they still have all the outstanding transfer fees to deal with , sort out a kit deal and all this when there is no gate income and the future is highly uncertain. I do know that there was speculation about somebody looking at investing but this was based on a possible euro league forming that would include Rangers* and this was back in October . The picture has now changed dramatically.
Seems this unprecedented situation has a precedent after all….But I never thought I would read about it in the DR.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtics-title-demand-strengthened-key-21695876
wottpi 15th March 2020 at 11:17
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There is loads at stake, and a solution needs to be found. Ideally I don't want Celtic awarded the title right now, and for that matter I don't want Hearts relegated right now. Such things should be decided on a meritocratic basis. However, given we live in exceptional times, every option needs to be on the table, and that is why I hope the decision is made outwith Scotland. If it is made within Scotland then it will be made to suit one particular agenda, as it always is. The media are already on the case.
Timtim 15th March 2020 at 11:38
================================
I tend to agree with your opening.
With all the issues going on just now why put tens of millions in, particularly when you know that Rangers are a special case and that the Scottish football establishment will treat you as the same club anyway.
Wait until the whole thing collapses, buy the assets from the administrator / liquidator and start over.
You then have the £20m for building the club, don't have to buy anyone's shares, and presumably don't have the debts and onerous contracts. You can even have your own IPO to raise cash.
The only reason I can think for the £20m investment would be emotional.
BP seems confident that the £20m investment is real, I would be very interested in finding out why he thinks anyone would want to do this.
Homunculus
Reason I believe it to be real is that there are people like Douglas Park, George Letham and others who actually believe that TRFC are a worldwide brand. I think they believe that if they deal with kings poisonous influence and make peace with Ashley, they could stabilise the club and sell it, trouble free, to a trophy investor. Right now a trophy investor wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.
All comes down to emotion though. They really believe that. Malcolm Murray believed it. King believes it too.
Doubt they are correct, but that’s where fitba bites you on the bum.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 12:22
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Sorry, but they can't be that stupid.
They don't just have access to the annual accounts, they have access to all of the books and records. They know how bad it is, much more so than anyone else. They will also have their own accountants to interpret things for them.
There is throwing good money after bad and there is out and out stupidity.
Corrupt official 15th March 2020 at 11:46
The DR link is not working. Has the article been removed?
Ballyargus 15th March 2020 at 12:32
You will need to remove the &nbps from the end.
Copy, paste, remove that part and click "enter"
Ballyargus 15th March 2020 at 12:32
'.The DR link is not working. Has the article been removed?'
…………
I went into the DR website, not the specific link, and got it in the 'football news' bi.
It's only a reference to the time when Partizan Belgrade, leading by only 2 points after 24 matches of 34, were awarded the league title when football stopped because of the bombing by NATO.
@BP
If they do believe that (and they possibly do) it's because they are living in the fantasy world created by David Murray when access to dodgy bankers , tax dodging and the ability to sign English Internationals due to the ban on Europe made it all possible. Those days are long gone . You say " Right now a trophy investor wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole." which leaves an emotional investor (from the far East) who wasn't emotional enough to do a Craig Whyte or a Charles Green or presumably show any interest in the last 8 years . Sometimes in life (and I am guilty ) you believe what you want to believe because it's more comforting than cold hard reality . Maybe they also believe they can get 10m from Juventus for Kamara . As I said previously ,there was a genuine enquiry in October but it was based on a possible revamping of European competition and a great deal has changed since then .