by Auldheid for the Scottish Football Monitor
On these pages at least there is a mounting lack of trust that the Scottish Football Association can or will govern our game in a fair and honest manner that recognises the principle of sporting integrity as paramount.
This mistrust is equalled only by the frustration at being unable to do anything to change the attitude and action of those at the SFA (and Leagues) responsible for that governance, a frustration compounded by the reluctance of the mainstream media to focus on the very issues of trust and integrity that concern us.
Back in early 2010 Celtic supporters represented by the Celtic Trust, various Association groups and individuals felt the same frustration and found a way to make their voices heard at the SFA – by using their club as a channel of communication to articulate their concerns.
A resolution was agreed and passed to Celtic to convey to the SFA and it was heeded by the club. There is no reason in why a similar conduit cannot be used by supporters groups of all clubs.
The enormity of the task, to get the majority of trusts and associations of all clubs to support this approach and give it sufficient weight, should not be underestimated, but in the interests of amplifying our voice, it is worth the effort.
Based on that 2010 experience, and on the discussion that has taken place on TSFM we have arrived at a (now amended) resolution below under the auspices of TSFM and which has been sent to all representative club supporters groups.
We believe one of the reasons the SFA and SPL were able to mislead (or simply fail to provide leadership) was because of the lack of clarity surrounding who should take provide that leadership and what principles should have been paramount.
The SFA were as tied to the commercial impact of Rangers demise as the SPL and indeed had to be reminded by the supporters of the importance of that sporting integrity. In the aftermath of the Rangers implosion, both the SFA and Leagues on the face of it appear still too commercially oriented to act in a way that balances commercialism and sporting principles.
We have attempted to address this in the resolution below. It also contains additional points raised already on TSFM and elsewhere. It is designed to assist in the widening of accountability in the sport.
We are not wed to the draft or the language. It is there to be revised but we hope it contains enough food for thought to be acceptable to the supporters groups and the clubs.
As recently as today, the SFA has published a Fans Charter. We welcome this development, and although it does not address our specific concerns with respect to governance it is a step in the right direction (http://www.fanscharter.com/).
Some of the principles published are;
- Challenge is to make a National Fans Charter known, accepted and influential
- Getting fan involvement in drafting charter important to acceptance, influence and growing awareness.
We think our resolution is an even bigger step in the direction of those principles.
DRAFT Proposal for Representative Supporter Groups e.g. Trusts or Associations to send to their club to convey to the SFA/SPL/SFL Boards.
We [Insert Association/Trust name here] and in association with fans’ groups of other clubs, ask [Insert Club name here] to convey the following to the Scottish Football Association, SPL and SFL on our behalf.
1 We believe that the commercial viability of Scottish football at the professional level depends absolutely on the belief by supporters that sporting integrity is at the heart of all competition, and that those governing them and the rules by which they exercise governance, must hold sporting integrity as paramount above ALL other concerns. This belief can be summed up in the one word “trust” Without trust in those responsible for governing Scottish Football, commercial viability will suffer, to eventual ruin of our game.
2 There is a perception (accompanied by some dismay and anger) among football supporters throughout Scotland that those who were charged with upholding the rules of the SFA and SPL/SFL, only did so partially – and even then only because of the threat of supporter action if they did not.
3 There appears to be no distinction or order of hierarchy between those governing the game (the SFA) for whom we believe preservation of sporting integrity should be the prime purpose, and the leagues (SPL/SFL) for whom commercial aspects are (understandably) uppermost. As a result sporting integrity lost its primacy and it was left to supporters to insist on it.
4 Consequently many Scottish football supporters have lost confidence that the Scottish Football Association will fulfil their purpose of safeguarding the sport. Indeed their silence following the revelation of a 5 way agreement last summer on the future of the liquidated Glasgow Rangers has exacerbated this loss of confidence in the SFA’s ability to administer professional football in Scotland in a manner that reflects their duty of care to all aspects of the game and everyone who takes part in it.
5 Decisions and deals have been taken by the SFA, SPL, and SFL without any public scrutiny. The operations and decisions of those bodies lack transparency and they are not accountable in any recognisable form to the football supporters throughout the land, without whom there is no professional association.
6 In our view this loss of trust can only begin to be restored by the SFA publically committing itself to:
(i) The production of an unequivocal “mission” statement of purpose/intent which will state (in whatever form they may exist) that maintaining sporting integrity is and will always be their prime goal. The statement will also describe how they intend to ensure this principle is followed in their interactions with Leagues and Clubs, particularly when commercial decisions that might undermine sporting integrity are implemented by the Leagues. (e.g. In the case of TV contracts, sponsorship or any significant league reconstruction).
(ii) Further: in recognition of the inability of some individuals to provide leadership during the past year simply because of conflicts of interest, take steps to remove any such conflict, and in doing so enable the organisation and its office bearers to function unhindered.
(iii) In the interests of transparency, publish the “five point agreement” that allowed The Rangers entry into SFL and SFA, provide a supporting rationale for entering into the agreement, and confirm that the terms have been or are being complied with.
Along with other trust restoring measures (see attached Annex) these steps should mark the end of the continuing lack of trust in the authorities.
7. We appreciate that it may be the start of next season before there is any visible evidence of our concerns being addressed although the statement of purpose/intent by the SFA (i) and action at (ii) can be readily put in place – would be a welcome early development.
8. All club’s supporters groups will be watching closely for signs of progress before advising our members and our other supporters if we feel the necessary trust restoring steps are being taken and advise that they can purchase their season books for 2013/14 knowing that sporting integrity is once more absolutely paramount in Scottish football to the betterment of our game.
Signed __________________________ on behalf of
[Insert supporter trust/association name here]
Date ______________
Annex to resolution.
The following is a list of other measures that the SFA should take in order to satisfy supporters that they should be entrusted with the job of governing Scottish football.
- To increase transparency and accountability in a meaningful way – possibly via creation of an active supporter’s liaison group drawn from representative supporter groups of each club. Its remit, using an agreed consultative mechanism to generate dialogue, to hear supporters’ concerns and consider them before key decisions are made. In an industry that is totally interdependent it is folly to exclude a major stakeholder from key decision making.
- A tightening of and an annual and independent audit of the process for granting UEFA Club (FFP) and National Club licensing reporting to the representative supporter liaison group as well as other SFA members to ensure all clubs are living within their means.
- Introduction of a rule requiring all Scottish football club directors to declare any financial interest/shareholding in any club other than their own and to rule that disposition of those shares/interest should be a part of a fit and proper assessment of a person’s qualification to hold office at an association club.
- A feasibility review of Scottish refereeing to assess the potential for creating a professional service that the SFA provide to the leagues by recruiting and training referees, but where the leagues monitor and reward consistently good performances to an agreed standard. Given the sums dependent on referee decisions, the current system must change for everyone’s sake including the referees.
- A full explanation about the circumstances (including dates) surrounding the award of a UEFA Club licence to Rangers in spring/summer of 2011 when there was unpaid social tax that prime facie did not meet the conditions for deeming the granting of a licence acceptable under the UEFA FFP rules on unpaid tax (the wee tax bill).
The [Insert Club Name here] Trust/Supporters Association asks [Insert Club Name here] to convey our concerns above with their provenance to the appropriate authorities as they see fit viz:
- Football Authority in Scotland (The SFA)
- Europe (UEFA)
- Scottish Government (on the issue of accountability to supporters and proper checks and balance governance.)
wottpi says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 22:52
To get to £30m you need £18m to be made up from merchandise sales, advertising, sponsorship & any other commenrcial deals plus TV cash and prize money.
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Please, never apologise for being a pedant. Pedantry is exactly what is needed in situations like this. Accept nothing, question everything.
I got the £30m turnover figure from an STV article, I can’t remember where or when exactly but I do remember it was STV. At this stage I also acknowledge that STV may well have been commercial partners with the new club and little more than propagandists. However that is an entirely separate issue.
They did talk about something like £17.5m from the areas you suggested, which at the time I did think a bit … optimistic. They have never achieved anything like it before, why would it start now.
More importantly, where would the extra £60m, £70m, £80m or whatever number you want to make up come from. No-one else has achieved it, why would Mr green be any different.
Bottom line, it is no different from £700m casinos, floating pitches, billionaires with wealth off the radar, straight talking Yorkshiremen turning the club around etc etc etc.
It’s all unsubstantiated nonsense, smoke and mirrors. It has been going on for as long as I can remember.
It’s just a pity there weren’t more pedants about, asking the easy questions.
Things like “How?”.
What’s interesting to me is that if Cathal is about to move like jobbies off a shovel, and has deliberately relocated outwith UK, where does that leave his new comms guru? There will be a lot of explaining to do to a whole lot of angry bears. But I suppose a communications expert is recruited for precisely such situations. I’m sure such an individual could diffuse any potential inflammatory scenarios
IN RESPONSE TO CONCERNS FROM FELLOW FANS, ASSEMBLY VICE PRESIDENT ROSS BLYTH WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND.
“I HAD INTENDED TO COMPLY WITH THE TANNADICE BOYCOTT EVEN THOUGH NOT FULLY COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
FOLLOWING COMMENTS FROM THE CLUB MANAGER ON FRIDAY THAT HE COULDN’T PERSONALLY CRITICISE THE FANS WHO DID GO, I THEN DECIDED TO ATTEND THE GAME.
NATURALLY I REGRET THE REACTION THIS HAS CAUSED BUT HOPE PEOPLE REALISE THIS WAS NOT DRIVEN BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN A DESIRE TO WATCH THE TEAM PLAY.
I HAVE TONIGHT OFFERED MY RESIGNATION TO THE ASSEMBLY”
intimidation FC
Read the statement on the official Club website again as drafted by Mr T no doubt,
“Rangers Football Club is capable of meeting any debts presented legitimately and we would like to stress to our supporters there is no threat to the Club whatsoever.
The matter is unworthy of further comment.”
Consider that in the context of any other business in a similar position. Consider no mention of shareholders, the unsolicited use of the word “threat”, the other keywords, “Legitimately” and “Unworthy”.
Can anyone unpick that particular lock?
Anyone familiar with Traynor’s “work” knows that he has never been less verbose about anything which might cast his 2nd favourite club in an unfavourable light
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 23:23
WTF?!? He shouldn’t be resigning – he should be shouting ‘ I am a Rangers fan and I believe that support for my team means exactly that – FOR my team, not AGAINST anyone who isn’t Rangers, and there’s too many idiots who can’t see that. I went there to support my team, not to handicap them in what was always going to be a tough fixture!’
dentarthurdent42 on Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 22:33
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He also says that the SFA offered to remove titles but he refused to agree. So does this mean it was removed from the draft 5 way agreement?
If so does the 5 way agreement only contain the payment of football debts with no timescale applied, or is Chuckie telling more porkies?
Sadly thanks to the secrecy surrounding it we will never know for definite.
“..there is no threat to the Club whatsoever”
The Club can survive liquidation, I suppose, from what we’ve seen so far. Also, isn’t it basic PR to avoid saying “not” or “no” or putting any similar negative tone into a statement? Surely “no threat” could have been phrased more positively. That’s what I’d be doing if I was in that role but what do I know? Maybe Jim knows more than he’s letting on and is making glaring errors to highlight a problem without alerting his employers. A bit like in the movies when the cops come round to a house and the kidnapped occupant tells them everything is fine but also makes eye movements to the side to indicate all is not well. He did say, on Saturday, his job was difficult.
Hi folks. If anyone thinks this is the end of the ORLIT story then think again…
Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 00:44
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Hi folks. If anyone thinks this is the end of the ORLIT story then think again…
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Must be more than 400 grand… surely?
Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 00:44
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Phil, according to a tweet from the rst tonight the Asian gentlemen asked “for double the amount”
Is this just a “can’t pay won’t pay” thing or is this a Stockbridge/Green slight of hand?
Let’s see what the Orlit folks say to the Sevco/TRFC statement tomorrow ;0)
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 21:36
neepheid says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 21:24
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This is Greens way to play his Joker.
Threaten to close TRFC and make it plain that if he doesn’t get his asking price,he’ll close them.This time there will be no coming back.
The buyer will either have to pay top dollar for the lot.I’d go somewhere around £25m or just buy the team and lease Ibrox back but I’m sure Green would make that prohibitive.
They could of course,groundshare with someone but that would leave Green with all the properties,including Ibrox to use as he wishes.
Some choice for someone like the Blue knights to make,especially when they could have had the lot for next to nothing!
==========================
Is it not possible that BDO would look at gratuitous alienation and step in to stop Green walking off with money they could use to give creditors a better settlement?
Is it also beyond the bounds of possibility that Rangers supporters will tire being angry and eventually waken up to realise they need redemption in order to move on and that can only come from Rangers paying what debts they can, not avoiding them via insolvency laws?
This need to awaken reminded me of an item I once read and after googling I found it
http://www.elise.com/q/webwisdom/awakening.htm
but it is so good and so relevant I’m going to copy paste it in full so in the hope that the word gets around and in the fullness of time Rangers men awaken.
The Awakening
(Author unknown)
A time comes in your life when you finally get…when, in the midst of all your fears and insanity, you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out…ENOUGH1 Enough fighting and crying and blaming and struggling to hold on. Then, like a child quieting down after a tantrum, you blink back your tears and begin to look at the world through new eyes.
This is your awakening.
You realize it’s time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change, or for happiness, safety and security to magically appear over the next horizon.
You realize that in the real world there aren’t always fairy tale endings, and that any guarantee of “happily ever after” must begin with you…and in the process a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.
You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are…and that’s OK. They are entitled to their own views and opinions.
You learn the importance of loving and championing yourself…and in the process a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval.
Your stop complaining and blaming other people for the things they did to you – or didn’t do for you – and you learn that the only thing you can really count on is the unexpected.
You learn that people don’t always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and everything isn’t always about you.
So, you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself…and in the process a sense of safety and security is born of self-reliance.
You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties…and in the process a sense of peace and contentment is born of forgiveness.
You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. You begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really stand for.
You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you’ve outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with.
You learn that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop maneuvering through life merely as a “consumer” looking for you next fix.
You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a bygone era, but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life.
You learn that you don’t know everything, it’s not you job to save the world and that you can’t teach a pig to sing. You learn the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake.
Then you learn about love. You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You learn that alone does not mean lonely.
You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to say NO.
You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing things over and ignoring your needs.
You learn that your body really is your temple. You begin to care for it and treat it with respect. You begin to eat a balanced diet, drinking more water, and take more time to exercise.
You learn that being tired fuels doubt, fear, and uncertainty and so you take more time to rest. And, just food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul. So you take more time to laugh and to play.
You learn that, for the most part, you get in life what you deserve, and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen is different than working toward making it happen.
More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You learn that no one can do it all alone, and that it’s OK to risk asking for help.
You learn the only thing you must truly fear is fear itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give away the right to live life on your own terms.
You learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom.
You learn that life isn’t always fair, you don’t always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people…and you lean not to always take it personally.
You learn that nobody’s punishing you and everything isn’t always somebody’s fault. It’s just life happening. You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls.
You lean that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you.
You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about: a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower.
Then, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never, ever settle for less than you heart’s desire.
You make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting, and to stay open to every wonderful possibility.
You hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind.
Finally, with courage in you heart, you take a stand, you take a deep breath, and you begin to design the life you want to live as best as you can.
So lets not forget this. When does Mr king step in? Might he raise his newly freed head now? I suspect he will with millions to spare. And the circle is complete?
Oh Dear
Charles is the shoogly nail that the SFA jackets are hanging on
Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 21:56
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 21:36
I cannot see Mr Green playing the joker – if he holds the club to ransom his life is likely to be made very complicated by angry fans. I am not for one second advocating volience. I remember one RFC fan saying on TV or perhaps radio just before the administration of RFC that if TGEF screwed the club, the moon would not be far enough away.
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I don’t doubt you LTL,
Green is stuck between a rock and a hard place.If he doesn’t get out soon he’ll see his ill-gotten(but perfectly legal) gains swallowed up by running costs.
If he closes TRFC down,though,there won’t be many hiding places for him.
The prospectus listed just over 35k ST holders at an average of £213 each.
this brought in £6.2m net of the dreaded VAT.
Allowing 10k match day sales at an average of £12 this makes 100k net.Say 25 matches that’s £2.5m.
total now £8.7m.
Hospitality,merchandising etc will bringg in some cash but not a fortune,let’s say £3.3m net.
Total income is now £12m
Charles stated in the IPO that 3 months wages were £3.5m(£14m p.a.)..If he’s been in charge since June then approx £10m has been paid in salaries.Add matchday costs,utilites etc then Green must be sailing close to the wind.
It’s getting near the time,if it already hasn’t arrived,when he either bales out or starts putting cash in to keep the wolves from the door.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 06:59
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Long Time Lurker says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 21:56
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 21:36
I cannot see Mr Green playing the joker – if he holds the club to ransom his life is likely to be made very complicated by angry fans. I am not for one second advocating volience. I remember one RFC fan saying on TV or perhaps radio just before the administration of RFC that if TGEF screwed the club, the moon would not be far enough away.
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I don’t doubt you LTL,
Green is stuck between a rock and a hard place.If he doesn’t get out soon he’ll see his ill-gotten(but perfectly legal) gains swallowed up by running costs.
If he closes TRFC down,though,there won’t be many hiding places for him.
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A CVA this time round for – will it be Sevco Scotland (RFC) or RIFC? – be easy to achieve?
How much debt is he in to people who are not co-conspirators
Has this been the plan all along and if so why?
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 07:14
If TRFC go into CVA or worse, then the SFA really must take a long hard look at themselves.
If they followed the rules, a club could have reformed and started with a strong fan base with low costs.
£750,000 pa for a Div 3 manager, I don’t know what the salaries for the players are but it is clear to us internetbampots that this is close to being unsustainable.
Financial madness – scantioned by the SFA?
What about the fans?
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 07:30
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The fans were warned,again and again but chose not to listen.They’ll follow their leader blindly into the abyss.
it goes like this:
Murray=God
Nearly bankrupts the club,now cast asunder.Enter Whyte.
Whyte=God
Puts club into Administration.Cast asunder.Enter Green.
Green = God.
That’s it.
They’ve listened to stories of Adidas,Apple(what happened to Mondays shirt sponsorship announcement?)Cancer Centres etc and questioned nothing.By using the term “Rangers” to describe TRFC and RIFC and Oldco ,Green now has the fans believing that everytime he speaks he’s talking about the Newco.
“Rangers make £22m, from IPO”.
We know that’s RIFC but the fans think it’s TRFC and won’t listen to anything different.
With a few exceptions,they’re Lemmings,heading over the cliff.Again.
torrejohnbhoy on Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 07:47
I agree totally with where you are comming from regrading the lemmings.
What frustrates me is that the SFA should act in my opion to protect the game and the fans. It is not in dispute that some fans will follow false gods and promoises blindly.
That’s why I am hacked off with the SFA. They are not proving to be an effective issuer of licenses. Its like a local authority ignoring the fact that a shop is selling alchol and tobacco to children.
If Green was really in this for the long term, he would have immediately cut the wage bill by 75%. You cannot run a business (even in football) where the wage bill equals or exceeds the total income. RIFC must currently be doling money out to TRFC every month just to cover running costs. That money is the IPO cash, whatever figure that is, £9m or £22m, take your pick. Whichever it is, Green is not going to watch the cash disappear for long. He has a chance to get out now with the properties and whatever cash is left, leaving TRFC swinging in the wind. If there isn’t a huge clear-out of staff and players at Ibrox very soon, then Green’s intentions are clear. He will walk away with the money and the properties. I just don’t see any other outcome.
So according to JT they area sorting out the necessary paperwork?
Club speak for….we don’t have proper banking facilities so we have to wait till Charles comes back to pay this as all the money is in a holding facility that only he has access to.
So no one at the club has the authority to pay this outstanding debt? which to be honest is so overdue it is now subject to a WUO?
Craig Whyte mark II
Post now 8 1/2 hours in moderation ?
Mod Edit – now approved…
Did someone not post that 400000 pounds worth of shares were traded a while back.
Coincidence?
Disclaimer: my memory is rubbish, can someone please confirm that I didn’t dream this.
Mick
There were a total exceeding £600K GBP traded on 8th Jan. Dont know if sold/bought booked, just a trade record(s)
This from a couple of days back-
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 13:14
Around 4 weeks ago,2 lots of 400k shares were sold on the same day.There have been a few in the 10-50k range but these two are the only biggish deals to show as yet.
Serious question.
How many books is it going to take for this….so far?
If there is one thing for sure ,there will not be 3 years of [audited] accounts in 3 years time.
Don’t panic, don’t panic . . .
David Leggat says it’s a GOOD thing for Rangers if Green, Ahmad and Stockbridge take tens of millions out of the club.
Because that means the club must have made HUNDREDS of millions.
(:-0)
All you have to do is look at their past records. There must be many firms that Green and Allenby Capital have been involved with that floated on AIM and became roaring successes.
There must be. Surely?
Fool the Rangers fans once, shame on you.
Fool them twice . . .
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
nickmcguinness.10.04
A fool and his money are easily parted,and so it goes
‘The matter is unworthy of further comment’ A statement which ,in my opinion ,given the seriousness of the matter,oozes arrogance and a lack of transparency.
We shall see.
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:09
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
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Karma
tartanwulver: “Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?”
My understadning is when they go under for a third time they have officially drowned in debt…
It would appear previous comparisons to Max Bialystock may not be as fanciful as it seemed at the time.
tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:24
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TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:09
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
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Karma
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Nirvana.
The word means an end to suffering,literal translation,’blown out’ ,as in candle.
tartanwulver
An Unique treble to be put alongside all the other world records that the the blue room must now be bulging with.
dentarthurdent42
“Rangers are looking at ways to remove the 3 Year Euro ban”
They are looking for ways to remove a ban that doesn’t exist. That’s going to be just as impressive as the point above. Rangers aren’t banned from Europe, as a new club without accounts they simply don’t qualify for entry.
So what should actually be saying is that “Rangers are looking for ways around UEFA’s eligibility regulations in order to fast track their way into money the lucrative Euro cups, which even then they may not qualify for.”
What they are saying is not even PR spin, it is a barefaced misrepresentatin of the truth (aka “a lie”). TBH it p1sses me right off that the MSM don’t bother to correct lies any more.
tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:24
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TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:09
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
———————————-
Karma
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Armageddon ?
Lets not start ordering the coffin just yet. This has a long way to play out.
Threatened with a winding up order is not issued with one.
There needs to be some more meat on the bones of this story.
Do I expect anyone in the MSM to have bothered to make a call to Singapore to check the story out? Not likely. singapore are 8 hours ahead so if nothing has appeared in the press yet I’d say nobody has bothered checking.
jockybhoy says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:40
dentarthurdent42
“Rangers are looking at ways to remove the 3 Year Euro ban”
They are looking for ways to remove a ban that doesn’t exist. That’s going to be just as impressive as the point above. Rangers aren’t banned from Europe, as a new club without accounts they simply don’t qualify for entry.
So what should actually be saying is that “Rangers are looking for ways around UEFA’s eligibility regulations in order to fast track their way into money the lucrative Euro cups, which even then they may not qualify for.”
What they are saying is not even PR spin, it is a barefaced misrepresentatin of the truth (aka “a lie”). TBH it p1sses me right off that the MSM don’t bother to correct lies any more.
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That’s like saying I’m looking at ways of getting my state pension before I’m 65. It ain’t gonna happen no matter how hard I try. Like Rangers I’m not old enough.
yourhavingalaugh says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:10
A fool and his money are easily parted,and so it goes
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
1st rule of Capitalism.
It is immoral not to part a fool from their money.
bailemeanach says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 23:02
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Herald are meekly reporting a copy and paste of Traynor’s non statement. Can’t see any other mention of it beyond Channel 4. Phil broke it on Sunday, Tomo put it mainstream this afternoon. Where have the hacks all gone?
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With the events of last year still fresh in the air, a winding up order for tRFC is not news?????????? Our 4th estate appears to be hamstrung by the usual blend of willful ignorance, misplaced loyalty, and probably fear of the mob.
Been lurking for a while. What did Green expect if he chooses to take funding from, how I shall put this, um…unconventional sources? A friendly chat on the phone or chummy business lunch to sort out a payment plan?
TRFC is losing money, likely RIFC is dripping money in to keep it going but with all these new large salaries to pay management, cash must be tight.
Recently in Dubai was he? Off to Perth is he? Just a 5 hr flight away from Singapore btw.
Is Charles trying to stop the money men from calling in the loans?
And so it begins….
Again.
Re-lurk.
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 08:15
torrejohnbhoy on Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 07:47
I agree totally with where you are comming from regrading the lemmings.
What frustrates me is that the SFA should act in my opion to protect the game and the fans. It is not in dispute that some fans will follow false gods and promoises blindly.
That’s why I am hacked off with the SFA. They are not proving to be an effective issuer of licenses. Its like a local authority ignoring the fact that a shop is selling alchol and tobacco to children.
====================================
The SFA set out their stall last summer,and made a bad situation worse last week by their statement saying they’re basically powerless..
Sack them all.
It has often been mentioned that Charles Green would not take certain courses of action because of health concerns that may come his way from a section of his previously doe eyed followers. Craig Whyte was told that if he crossed the 500m worldwide fanbase going to the moon would not be far enough away to escape their wrath. In their dreams! If these people were in the habit of frequenting pubs in Bridgeton and then heading to the dancing in Glasgow city centre every weekend (or Ashton Lane) they might become unfortunate victims. They don’t. They live in a different world from the cretins who would threaten them. Even Salaman Rushdie managed to avoid his fatwa from a genuine, in excess of 500m fanbase. Green will do what is best for him and ignore any threats coming his way.
Tic 6709 says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:43
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tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:24
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TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:09
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
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Karma
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Armageddon ?
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Karmageddon ?
Remember this….
torrejohnbhoy says:
Wednesday, February 6, 2013 at 14:16
f you’re looking for something to do tomorrow:
alex thomson @alextomo
#c4news online – we’re doing a Rangers online discussion tomorrow at 12.15 Glasgow time. Fans, legal expert, top journalist — and me.
Thomson also just tweeted:
#C4NEWS EXCLUSIVE – Sources close to Orlit Enterprise say: “no settlement has been reached” over Rangers owing them £400,000.
alex thomson @alextomo
#C4NEWS EXCLUSIVE – Sources close to Orlit Enterprise say: “no settlement has been reached” over Rangers owing them £400,000.
Some evidence from FF that not all Rangers fans are deaf,dumb and blind. Post below in response to David Leggat’s recent conversion to the cause of uber football club profit generator Charles Green. Also note some posters welcoming the attention paid by internet bampots to the Rangers situation. Just think, if Rangers fans had harnessed RTC’s efforts rather than retreating to the bunkers?
“If you have load of 1p shares, you don’t need the company to be wildly successfully to make a killing.
Regardless of whether people want to listen or not. Charles Green has a long history of AIM floats, followed by swift crashes and delistings once the directors lock in has ended and he has disposed of his holdings (Panceltica, Medical Solutions Ltd, Sheffield Utd, Knightsbridge Holdings.) The worst case scenario is that Green obfuscates the financial health (or lack thereof) of the company until after his year lock in ends. He can do that because the AIM extends the reporting period for recently floated companies (ours has been extended to April 14) and until this point only unaudited interim’s need to be presented. If you don’t need to provide detailed financial information you can use bluster to fill the space nicely.
Btw I’m not saying the above is likely, I don’t think it is. But it’s an illustration of how the system can be gamed to reward failure. The AIM is not regulated strongly and you can get away with providing very little information for a long time.
As I said on another thread. If I could ask Charles Green any question it would be “when to do you expect to produce full audited financial reports for RIFC plc. Could you give a rough date” If the answer isn’t by December then I’d be wondering why. UEFA require three sets audited accounts, pushing the first set out merely increases the length of the european ‘ban’.”
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 11:12
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Tic 6709 says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:43
2 0 Rate This
tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:24
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TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:09
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
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Karma
—————————————–
Armageddon ?
————————————————-
Karmageddon ?
————————————–
Karmageddonoutahere…
Worth a read, there are too many delutional things for me to point out in a short lunch break but I am sure you will see the obvious ones very quickly. To quote just one:
“the efforts of the Rangers Tax Case site may ultimately have been in vain in terms of a negative EBT result but there’s no doubt they directly helped dictate the narrative which caused the old company to slide into fiscal oblivion”
So RTC was to blame for running up the massive debt :o)
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The Rangers Standard
ARE RANGERS LEARNING THE PR LESSON?
With today’s front page news that an Asian finance firm were considering seeking a winding-up order against the club for non-payment of alleged services, the recurring debate about Rangers’ PR performance has again raised its somewhat ugly head.
Most of our online communities were aware of the rumour surrounding the court petition which had started on one of the more popular Celtic-supporting blogs. However, it wasn’t until the always mischief-making Alex Thomson ran with the story that the club took the issue seriously enough to warrant comment. They reacted yesterday afternoon with a typically bullish statement that suggested the sums sought were ‘insignificant’ and agreement had been reached with Orlit Financial Services ‘subject to the necessary paperwork’.
Fair enough but what was perhaps most interesting was that the club went on to conclude that the matter was ‘unworthy of further comment’ – clearly an abrupt dismissal of an issue that many fans remain concerned about.
I think it’s important to make clear at this point that it would be daft of Rangers to consider replying to every piece of muck-raking with long and detailed statements. Despite employing the expensive services of Jack Irvine’s MediaHouse PR consultancy company as well as the recently appointed Jim Traynor, I don’t think it would make strategic sense to chase our tail every time one of the usual rabble-rousers wanted to cause the club some angst. However, the issue is worthy of some debate.
For some time now, it seems quite obvious Celtic supporters have a network of fans and websites dedicating large portions of their life on ruining our club. These people are clearly obsessed and can be easy ridiculed from time to time by the more reasoned members of our fanbase. Nevertheless it cannot be denied these same people have their sources and can often be well informed on a variety of issues – be it legal, financial or the sport’s administration in this country (and, as we’ve witnessed with UEFA over the last ten 10 years, even beyond our shores). Thus, I think it’s fair to ask if Rangers, as a club, have a clear grasp on that.
Remember, we’re not just talking about pseudo-journalists hidden away in foreign countries or Celtic fan-sites masquerading as ‘neutral’ Scottish football discussion hubs but recognised TV presenters, investigators and sports-writers. For example, the efforts of the Rangers Tax Case site may ultimately have been in vain in terms of a negative EBT result but there’s no doubt they directly helped dictate the narrative which caused the old company to slide into fiscal oblivion. This website apparently had the ear of lawyers, accountants, journalists and allegedly HMRC staff, amongst others. We ignored it to our own peril.
Of course our club’s modern PR challenges have been ongoing now for a lot longer than transgressing the events of the last two years or so. Sir David Murray appointed MediaHouse as soon as the club (or possibly more accurately he) started taking a clobbering during the fans’ problems with UEFA in 2005. At that point people like Graham Spiers and, ironically, Jim Traynor were having a field day bashing the club and support senseless over the sectarianism issue. We lost out then, so was it any wonder some other people thought the club was ripe for a more ‘underground’ propaganda war going forward? It would be argued that this week’s events suggest we’re still losing out now.
Generally speaking the Orlit story may or may not be an important one in the grand scheme of things but it has caused the club genuine embarrassment because they did not deal with the rumour quickly enough. Conversely, it shows how Celtic’s unofficial blogging network does spring into action and can induce front page headlines within days. We’re behind the curve far too often in that respect.
To that end, the Rangers support have been warning the club for years about this problem and I’m sure many of us had hoped the appointment of Jim Traynor was an acknowledgement of it – along with a chance for the club to engage with their own similar network to fight a more effective battle against this often daily negativity. Instead the club’s somewhat tepid response actually has us asking more questions instead of feeling confident in the future.
To emphasis an earlier point, I don’t think any fan expects the club (or their experienced consultants) to waste time and money on people whose life mission appears to be bringing about the ruin of Rangers. However, whilst accepting I’m no PR professional, I do think we still have a real problem in accepting the situation we’re in and the club needs to agree a more defined strategy in dealing with an issue that will not go away. In this case ignorance is most definitely not bliss.
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Some sense being talked by the bears over on Rangers Rumours and a realisation all is not well in many comments. Note the level of believability inspired by JTs outburst.
07 Feb 2013 02:05:50
But a Rangers spokesman said last night: “The sums sought are insignificant. An agreement has been reached subject to the necessary paperwork.
“Rangers Football Club is capable of meeting any debts presented legitimately. We would like to stress to supporters there is no threat to the club. ”
That puts that scaremongering to bed
Believable(1) Unbelievable (9)
blu says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 11:25
Some evidence from FF that not all Rangers fans are deaf,dumb and blind.
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madbhoy24941 says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 11:30
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Worth a read, there are too many delutional things for me to point out in a short lunch break but I am sure you will see the obvious ones very quickly.
=================================================
Interesting juxtaposition. Maybe Rangers fans are confused?
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:09
Whyte was the second time…what’s the saying for when it happens a third time?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
…May Hell slap intae yeh !!
I think this is a compliment. Certainly some kind of realisation.
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/219-are-rangers-learning-the-pr-lesson
For me the recurring questions is this: Why risk these damaging headlines for £400k if that amount is not a problem?
Quote of the day from the Scotsman.
‘The company, which was unavailable for comment last night, is linked to businessman Chan Fook Meng, who is believed to be a well-established associate of Green.’
‘unavailable for comment last night’. These guys are supposed to be jurnalists. 8 HOURS time difference. No, really? Not available last night you say?
I’m surrprised anyone authorised a long distance call given how tight the pennies are.
Phil – do you still expect the winding up order to be served then?
you are hinting that the 22.5m is not in the bank – do you really mean the 400k is not in the bank either?
is this Sevcos “levy & macrae” moment of last year when the (original) rangers were dragged to court for 35k
ianagain says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 11:46
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I think this is a compliment. Certainly some kind of realisation.
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/219-are-rangers-learning-the-pr-lesson
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I read that piece as being a case of ‘we arent getting our message out effectively enough’. A typical politicians answer in the face of a hated policy.
i.e. its not what we are doing, its that we cant tell enough people how great it is, and the one’s we do tell, dont believe us.
I see no realisation other than they arent getting things their own way and it hurts.
readcelt says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 12:23
============================================================
I’m probably wrong,again but I read this as the IPO cash of £9m we’re informed is in the bank of RIFC nor TRFC.
Hey lads
Our host kindly agreed to let me post a link to this here. This is Famous Tartan Army Magazine Issue 13, just out and free to read online. As you can see, this one is dedicated, in part, to the campaigners who changed Scottish football forever in the summer.
http://en.calameo.com/read/001382993a937528cf88f
As an aside, I thought I’d draw your attention to a piece we’ve just published over on On Fields of Green … Gavin McCann’s excellent article on Gazza.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-lost-soul-2/
Thanks lads. Keep on keeping on. This site is an invaluable asset to the debate.
tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 10:47
“Like Rangers I’m not old enough.”
================================================
That made me laugh! Nice analogy.
Should have said “not TRFC”
madbhoy24941 on Thursday, February
7, 2013 at 11:30
Worth a read, there are too many
delutional things for me to point out in a
short lunch break but I am sure you will
see the obvious ones very quickly. To
quote just one:
“the efforts of the Rangers Tax Case site
may ultimately have been in vain in terms
of a negative EBT result but there’s no
doubt they directly helped dictate the
narrative which caused the old company to
slide into fiscal oblivion”
So RTC was to blame for running up the
massive debt
_________________________________________
Presumably, the writer also blames their GP for every ailment they diagnose. What a strange perspective. There must be name for this.
It’s interesting that a bit of good journalism could make things more transparent so any journo could say it was in the fans’ interest that a bit of detective work is done. If facts are known early enough the outcome could be changed. This is/was the angle used by Mark Daly and Alex Thomson. It seems the above mentality is so entrenched that nobody else wants to try. If someone is happy to pay them to cut and paste, why should they bother doing any more?
“Are Rangers Learning the PR Lesson”
So their club has gone down the tubes. There are strong rumours and indicators that their phoenix club could find itself in serious financial trouble too. Yet, their over-riding concern is – the club’s PR! Yeh, it’ll all work out in the end if they get their PR right, won’t it? Don’t they realise that it was Murray’s great PR that helped get them in the state they are in today? Don’t they realise that GOOD PR hides BAD news? Don’t they realise that there is so much that they don’t realise? Still, as long as their PR machine eventually proves it was Celtic and their supporters who were to blame, then all will end well for them, won’t it?
I think the Rangers Standard article is a very telling revelation of the reasoning processes of the supposedly “intelligent” bears. It uses a languge of education and modicum of reasoning to argue a fundamentally deluded case. There are people out there who do not have the interests of Rangers at heart and will take delight in their demise ( absolutely true) Rangers have indeed met their demise ( absolutely true) hence those taking delight in it are responsible ( completely deluded reasoning)
TRFC are now in serious financial trouble because of a flawed business model – eh they are spending more than they can possibly earn – the most flawed model of them all.
But to The Bears – There are those out there who hate us ( there are many indeed who regard there whole existence in the SFL as an affront to football – myself included) and who take delight in pointing out the trouble we are in ( again absolutely true) therefore they are the source of the problem ( again fundamental delusion)
The difficulty with such people is not that they are incapable of reasoning – but that the basic premises which underlie their reasoning process is delusional – hence no amount of reasoning can shift the flawed delusional premis. Thus, they are doomed to watch another incarnation stumble and struggle in death throes and must again, using their flawed logic, blame their “enemies” for this.
The idea that they will learn is essentially misguided. the message that they took away first time was wrong – they will carry the same flawed logic to the second failure.
This time , though, the pathway out looks even more difficult. And if no incarnation can then carry the torch of Beardom forward ( and I can’t see any profitable model that can work at Ibrox if I am honest) then the consequences may well be very severe indeed.
Seems to be a large sell off this morning of 25,000 RFC shares worth £20K on a “delayed publication request” basis.
This means the trade may have occurred some time ago but they didn’t tell you about it at the time. This is common for big trades like this one and will have taken some time to round up that many buyers for the trade by the market maker. If they had to publish live each tranche of say 500 that they manage to knock out, people would see them and realise there was a big seller desperate to get rid of stock and buyers would hold out and offer a lower price to the seller. By keeping all the buyers in ignorance until they have all been sold, the seller gets a better price overall.
Is this a known and recurring pattern for a certain type of early investor?
Share price down to 80p. Another 25,000 dumped at 13:00pm.
WRT to JT’s statement from TRFC. It reads like an admission of guilt prior to any accusation, does it not?
Similar to your 5 year old entering the room with a chocolate covered face and stating, “Daddy……I didn’t have a biscuit”. 🙂
nixonwhytewashing says:
Thursday, February 7, 2013 at 13:08
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Good point nixon. Bookies are for mugs and the Stock Market can be a bookies for rich mugs.
If the banks can rig the Libor rate so easily what chance has Joe public in the real nest of vipers?
Well I’ve contacted Orlit asking for their side of things. Wonder if they’ll reply
http://www.streetdirectory.com/businessfinder/company_detail.php?companyid=199356&branchid=166956