by Auldheid for the Scottish Football Monitor
On these pages at least there is a mounting lack of trust that the Scottish Football Association can or will govern our game in a fair and honest manner that recognises the principle of sporting integrity as paramount.
This mistrust is equalled only by the frustration at being unable to do anything to change the attitude and action of those at the SFA (and Leagues) responsible for that governance, a frustration compounded by the reluctance of the mainstream media to focus on the very issues of trust and integrity that concern us.
Back in early 2010 Celtic supporters represented by the Celtic Trust, various Association groups and individuals felt the same frustration and found a way to make their voices heard at the SFA – by using their club as a channel of communication to articulate their concerns.
A resolution was agreed and passed to Celtic to convey to the SFA and it was heeded by the club. There is no reason in why a similar conduit cannot be used by supporters groups of all clubs.
The enormity of the task, to get the majority of trusts and associations of all clubs to support this approach and give it sufficient weight, should not be underestimated, but in the interests of amplifying our voice, it is worth the effort.
Based on that 2010 experience, and on the discussion that has taken place on TSFM we have arrived at a (now amended) resolution below under the auspices of TSFM and which has been sent to all representative club supporters groups.
We believe one of the reasons the SFA and SPL were able to mislead (or simply fail to provide leadership) was because of the lack of clarity surrounding who should take provide that leadership and what principles should have been paramount.
The SFA were as tied to the commercial impact of Rangers demise as the SPL and indeed had to be reminded by the supporters of the importance of that sporting integrity. In the aftermath of the Rangers implosion, both the SFA and Leagues on the face of it appear still too commercially oriented to act in a way that balances commercialism and sporting principles.
We have attempted to address this in the resolution below. It also contains additional points raised already on TSFM and elsewhere. It is designed to assist in the widening of accountability in the sport.
We are not wed to the draft or the language. It is there to be revised but we hope it contains enough food for thought to be acceptable to the supporters groups and the clubs.
As recently as today, the SFA has published a Fans Charter. We welcome this development, and although it does not address our specific concerns with respect to governance it is a step in the right direction (http://www.fanscharter.com/).
Some of the principles published are;
- Challenge is to make a National Fans Charter known, accepted and influential
- Getting fan involvement in drafting charter important to acceptance, influence and growing awareness.
We think our resolution is an even bigger step in the direction of those principles.
DRAFT Proposal for Representative Supporter Groups e.g. Trusts or Associations to send to their club to convey to the SFA/SPL/SFL Boards.
We [Insert Association/Trust name here] and in association with fans’ groups of other clubs, ask [Insert Club name here] to convey the following to the Scottish Football Association, SPL and SFL on our behalf.
1 We believe that the commercial viability of Scottish football at the professional level depends absolutely on the belief by supporters that sporting integrity is at the heart of all competition, and that those governing them and the rules by which they exercise governance, must hold sporting integrity as paramount above ALL other concerns. This belief can be summed up in the one word “trust” Without trust in those responsible for governing Scottish Football, commercial viability will suffer, to eventual ruin of our game.
2 There is a perception (accompanied by some dismay and anger) among football supporters throughout Scotland that those who were charged with upholding the rules of the SFA and SPL/SFL, only did so partially – and even then only because of the threat of supporter action if they did not.
3 There appears to be no distinction or order of hierarchy between those governing the game (the SFA) for whom we believe preservation of sporting integrity should be the prime purpose, and the leagues (SPL/SFL) for whom commercial aspects are (understandably) uppermost. As a result sporting integrity lost its primacy and it was left to supporters to insist on it.
4 Consequently many Scottish football supporters have lost confidence that the Scottish Football Association will fulfil their purpose of safeguarding the sport. Indeed their silence following the revelation of a 5 way agreement last summer on the future of the liquidated Glasgow Rangers has exacerbated this loss of confidence in the SFA’s ability to administer professional football in Scotland in a manner that reflects their duty of care to all aspects of the game and everyone who takes part in it.
5 Decisions and deals have been taken by the SFA, SPL, and SFL without any public scrutiny. The operations and decisions of those bodies lack transparency and they are not accountable in any recognisable form to the football supporters throughout the land, without whom there is no professional association.
6 In our view this loss of trust can only begin to be restored by the SFA publically committing itself to:
(i) The production of an unequivocal “mission” statement of purpose/intent which will state (in whatever form they may exist) that maintaining sporting integrity is and will always be their prime goal. The statement will also describe how they intend to ensure this principle is followed in their interactions with Leagues and Clubs, particularly when commercial decisions that might undermine sporting integrity are implemented by the Leagues. (e.g. In the case of TV contracts, sponsorship or any significant league reconstruction).
(ii) Further: in recognition of the inability of some individuals to provide leadership during the past year simply because of conflicts of interest, take steps to remove any such conflict, and in doing so enable the organisation and its office bearers to function unhindered.
(iii) In the interests of transparency, publish the “five point agreement” that allowed The Rangers entry into SFL and SFA, provide a supporting rationale for entering into the agreement, and confirm that the terms have been or are being complied with.
Along with other trust restoring measures (see attached Annex) these steps should mark the end of the continuing lack of trust in the authorities.
7. We appreciate that it may be the start of next season before there is any visible evidence of our concerns being addressed although the statement of purpose/intent by the SFA (i) and action at (ii) can be readily put in place – would be a welcome early development.
8. All club’s supporters groups will be watching closely for signs of progress before advising our members and our other supporters if we feel the necessary trust restoring steps are being taken and advise that they can purchase their season books for 2013/14 knowing that sporting integrity is once more absolutely paramount in Scottish football to the betterment of our game.
Signed __________________________ on behalf of
[Insert supporter trust/association name here]
Date ______________
Annex to resolution.
The following is a list of other measures that the SFA should take in order to satisfy supporters that they should be entrusted with the job of governing Scottish football.
- To increase transparency and accountability in a meaningful way – possibly via creation of an active supporter’s liaison group drawn from representative supporter groups of each club. Its remit, using an agreed consultative mechanism to generate dialogue, to hear supporters’ concerns and consider them before key decisions are made. In an industry that is totally interdependent it is folly to exclude a major stakeholder from key decision making.
- A tightening of and an annual and independent audit of the process for granting UEFA Club (FFP) and National Club licensing reporting to the representative supporter liaison group as well as other SFA members to ensure all clubs are living within their means.
- Introduction of a rule requiring all Scottish football club directors to declare any financial interest/shareholding in any club other than their own and to rule that disposition of those shares/interest should be a part of a fit and proper assessment of a person’s qualification to hold office at an association club.
- A feasibility review of Scottish refereeing to assess the potential for creating a professional service that the SFA provide to the leagues by recruiting and training referees, but where the leagues monitor and reward consistently good performances to an agreed standard. Given the sums dependent on referee decisions, the current system must change for everyone’s sake including the referees.
- A full explanation about the circumstances (including dates) surrounding the award of a UEFA Club licence to Rangers in spring/summer of 2011 when there was unpaid social tax that prime facie did not meet the conditions for deeming the granting of a licence acceptable under the UEFA FFP rules on unpaid tax (the wee tax bill).
The [Insert Club Name here] Trust/Supporters Association asks [Insert Club Name here] to convey our concerns above with their provenance to the appropriate authorities as they see fit viz:
- Football Authority in Scotland (The SFA)
- Europe (UEFA)
- Scottish Government (on the issue of accountability to supporters and proper checks and balance governance.)
Auldheid says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 13:00
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As I understand it LNS is responsible for establishing guilt but is it the LNS, the SPL or the SFA who decide on a punishment relevant to the crime and who decides the extent of the crime against football?
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Auldheid, The common view on the site seems to be that should RFC be found guilty that cup results should be reversed and that league games should be recorded as 0-3 and consequently league titles would be stripped. However the SFA rules were amended relatively recently (2008?) and it was following this clarification that East Stirlingshire and Spartans were ejected from the cup. I think Dunfermline had previously succeeded, on appeal, in overturning such a decision. What Rangers are accused of certainly looks to be more systemic than the single administrative error of Spartans’ missing second signature but you can bet that if anyone is representing Rangers they’ll draw on earlier cases. Andrew Smith in SOS may well be right in his analysis.
I am thinking that it should be systematic rather than systemic. If it was a systemic error it would apply to the whole system, when in fact it was only one club that systematically tried to outwit “the system”. If everyone’s doing it its a systemic fault, if its someone trying to circumvent it, they are usually doing it systematically. Or “a meringue”?
I’m posting this under the TSFM banner of media-watching …
There is a thread currently on RM called “Jailed for slagging the Pope”.
I’m not sure how a chap goes about reporting undisguised sectarian abuse (which I believe is illegal) on an internet forum, but this is one of the most deserving candidates for a long time.
How many chances do RM get before the authorities close them down?
angus1983 says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 14:01
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jockybhoy says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 13:36
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I am thinking that it should be systematic rather than systemic. If it was a systemic error it would apply to the whole system, when in fact it was only one club that systematically tried to outwit “the system”. If everyone’s doing it its a systemic fault, if its someone trying to circumvent it, they are usually doing it systematically. Or “a meringue”?
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jocky, I was describing RFC systems and procedures and chose to use systemic. Doesn’t matter much either way – Rangers will either be found to have broken the rules and appeal or be found to have no case to answer.
Paul McConville expands on some of the nonesense that was spouted the other day.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/charles-green-of-rangers-gets-naming-rights-example-wrong-or-else-mike-ashley-has-a-time-machine/
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#SPL chief exec Neil Doncaster says 12-12-18 model agreed by top clubs. Now over to #SFL who meet on Thursday. #BBCSport
maybe slightly more relevant quote, from same source
“The SPL clubs have been clear today that they, in principle back this being taken to the next stage.”
1/ why the hurry for 2013/14 Mr D. Answer I’m told is sponsorship and tv rights. Why not just say that?
2/ and the teams, in terms of league position as at May 2013, in the three tiers would be… Why not say that either? Are you hiding something?
3/ is it too much to assume that the SFL clubs would be voting in the full knowledge of the above, especially if it is to be rushed in?
4/ if the SFL turkeys vote to cancel Christmas (no insult intended) do the SPL have a plan B – an SPL2 by invite for instance?
I smell….
Either ND s lying or Motherwell Society were lied to: From Well fans forum.
Posted 28 Jan 2013 10:02Well Society names its two nominations to MFC boardGraham Barnstaple and Brian McCafferty will fill the Society’s places on the club board in the next few weeks. Congratulations!
The news is in the latest newsletter…
Message from the ‘Well Society Board
The Well Society are delighted to announce that two of their board members have been nominated to become directors of Motherwell Football Club.
The two nominees are Well Society chairman Graham Barnstaple and Brian McCafferty, who were both elected on to the society board in October.
Members recently voted by a five to one majority to select two representatives for the MFC board from the seven society board members rather than opening the election out to the wider membership.
There are still a few formalities to take place before the two nominees are in a position to take their place on the board of MFC, with the club firstly needing to make space on the board. These formalities should take place in the coming weeks.
Graham Barnstaple said: “I am honoured to have been nominated to join the board of Motherwell FC and to have the chance to shape the future of the club I have supported for over 50 years.
“I’m also looking forward to representing the views of the society membership at board meetings and keeping the information flow open.
“Hopefully we can keep the supporters of the club up to date with what is happening at the club, on and off the park.
“I would also like to thank all the members who have voted me into this fantastic position and given me a fantastic opportunity.”
Brian McCafferty added: “I’m very proud to be nominated for this position. I’m excited about the challenge of helping the club continue moving towards a fan ownership model and honoured to be representing the fans on the club board.”
LEAGUE RECONSTRUCTION
The board of the Well Society recently had a meeting with the club to discuss the planned reconstruction of the Scottish leagues. This was a constructive meeting with the society being able to get the views of its members across to the club.
At the same time it gave the club the chance to pass on what information they had about the planned reconstruction and the potential financial implications.
As you may have read there is a meeting of the SPL clubs planned for Monday January 28 to discuss this matter. We have been assured no vote will take place at this meeting, and after the meeting the club board will have more details to discuss with us.
As a result, we plan to have another meeting with the club to get a better understanding of where things are at that time.
The timing of the LNS Inquiry & Reconstruction meetings this week.
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Can’t remember if this has been covered previously, but the above 2 events are massively significant for Scottish football.
So why would the SFA/SPL/SFL arrange their dates for the same/this week ?
You would think that both events would need to be carefully managed, so you would want perhaps a few weeks at least between LNS and Reconstruction meetings ?
As I am becoming ever more cynical wrt Scottish football administration;
– is the close scheduling deliberate ?
– are the Reconstruction talks this week to deflect attention, if possible, from LNS ?
– is there any link between the Reconstruction meetings’ content and the LNS outcome ?
[I would guess that TRFC could be specifically discussed during the Reconstruction meetings ?]
I dont think there has been a vote finalising reconstruction, but instead approval to take it ” to the next stage”. There would be more press heat around the whole issue.
Don’t all get too far ahead.
Where’s the reportage on which clubs voted and which way? Where’s all the details of the debate on which clubs go where and who can’t get relegated, or will be playing the meaningless games after February?
Since a salary cap in the EPL would benefit our game by depressing player wages this may be of interest.
http://www.danielgeey.com/a-premier-league-salary-cap-questions-and-consequences/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/28/spl-clubs-support-revamped-league-structure?CMP=twt_gu
SPL clubs unanimous in their support for a revamped league structure
• All 12 top-flight clubs back new 12-12-18 plan
• Scottish Football League clubs will now discuss proposal
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guardian.co.uk, Monday 28 January 2013 15.09 GMT
Celtic celebrate winning the SPL title in 2012, but now the top-flight clubs have agreed on a revamped structure. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images
All 12 of Scotland’s top-flight clubs have given their “unanimous backing” to plans for a revamped 12-12-18 Scottish league structure.
The Scottish Premier League chief executive, Neil Doncaster, revealed consensus had been achieved at a meeting of the 12 clubs at Hampden on Monday. Scottish Football League clubs will meet to discuss the proposals, which include a merger of the two bodies, on Thursday.
Doncaster said: “We got unanimous backing of the way forward today so it now goes to Thursday and the Scottish Football League clubs will have their views. But today, the Scottish Premier League clubs were united in their view that this is the way forward.”
The plans were originally backed by SPL clubs last year before Doncaster stepped up talks with his SFL counterparts. But some doubt had emerged since both leagues agreed in principle to the plans earlier this month in conjunction with the Scottish Football Association, whose professional game board [PGB] has been driving reconstruction attempts.
Some clubs who were not involved in the previous meeting had requested more information amid scepticism from fans but they appear to have been satisfied.
Doncaster said: “We provided further details that have arisen from meetings over the past weeks. The last time that all of our SPL clubs got together was on 3 December so in the intervening time there has been some more detail that’s been discussed with the PGB and with the SFL board.
“All of that was provided today and the clubs are clear and united and unanimous in their view that this should be taken forward to the next stage.”
The plans, if approved by SFL clubs, would see both leagues merge and a fairer distribution of income, along with a pyramid system that would allow clubs to move into the professional league. The controversial aspect of the new structure is a plan to split the top two leagues into three groups of eight after 22 games to create an extended play-off system.
The middle eight clubs would all have their points reset to zero and the top four at the end of the season would start the next campaign in the ‘Premiership’.
The SFL needs 22 of its clubs to back the plans with Rangers not allowed to vote as they are only associate members. Rangers came out vociferously against the proposals when the leagues reached broad agreement with their chief executive, Charles Green, vowing to look for a way out of Scottish football if they were introduced.
Rangers would still be in the bottom tier if the new system comes into force in time for next season, but the timescale of their anticipated ascent to the top flight would not be affected. However, there is no guarantee the plans would be ratified in time to take effect next season.
Motherwell will aim this week to meet directors of the Well Society, the fans’ group which has a stake in the club, in order to state their case for change.
A club statement read: “There was no formal vote today however as a club, we indicated our support to the SPL executive to progress discussions with the SFL. It is now our intention to share what we heard today with our supporters so we can have the same discussion and outline why it is our view this is the best option for the game at this time.”
From KDS Gothamcelt
Guy I work with was at a Sevco night on Friday and the other sevco’s were asking him how it was.
“Brillaint, Charles was there!”
“Was he? Did he speak?”
He spoke for about an hour, hour flew in really entertaining, boy knows his stuff etc Did a question and answer bit.
Questions like “Do you think Neil Lennon should be water boarded?”
CG: “I’ll leave you to make your own mind up about that!” (cue rapturous applause)
“Are you getting a drink in?”
CG: “When we play our first Champ Lge game at Ibrox and win I will buy everyone in the stadium a drink…it may only be a bottle of water each!” (cue hysterical laughter)
“What are you waiting for from the SFA?”
CG: “Im still waiting on Stewart Regan saying something sensible?” (cue standing ovation)
A bit of fun…
Just came across this ridiculous headline in the Evening TImes, from last week;
“Rangers fans’ Tannadice boycott is hailed as huge success.”
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangers-fans-tannadice-boycott-is-hailed-as-huge-success-112435n.19911849
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I wonder if there was a similar headline during the summer that I missed;
“Rangers’ [in liquidation] debt management is hailed as huge success” 🙄
Mmmm…
How to maintain public order when it is announced that the LNS result goes against the dead club and the 12 12 18 leagues are accepted by the SPL and SFL ( ex TRFC of course)?
Easy
Announce that despite hard bargaining by Donkey the only TV deal on offer will not start until TRFC are in SPL2
So there is either a 12 month gap with no TV deal or all 42 clubs must vote on an SPL2 parachute for TRFC next season.
That ought to minimise the LNS pitchforks
StevieBC says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 20:22
Apparently it’s all DUFC’s fault – from the article: “Dundee United spoke fairly prominently against us getting back into the SPL in the summer.” Getting back into the SPL!! Aaaaargh!
This has something to do with them thinking they’re the same club, isn’t it? Oops, must not talk about…..!
RM in overload: in the thread Get ready for a war?
If this does happen, I will be suing the SFL through the small claims court. I will be claiming for all ticket costs (home and away) all petrol costs, match programmes, pies and anything else I can think of up to a limit of £3000, based on the presumption that I was financially supporting my club in order to gain promotion, as set out by the SFL at the beginning of the season.
Charles Green puts a million pounds into the Rfff, and the Rfff buy the support of 7 clubs to vote no to the reconstruction.
Its far more than they will ever get under the new setup, and is no worse than what Liewell and Doncaster are doing to buy them for their own gains.
We can invite the 7 clubs to a 5 a side tournament held over one weekend and call the payments prizemoney/expenses, whatever.
If they strip titles then its time to get militant, marches, demonstrations, boycotts, along with fighting them in the courts.
So the only path for us would be to sue the SFL for accepting the proposal.
smallteaser28 Jan 2013, 09:50 PM
onyougo28 Jan 2013, 07:56 PM
rastabhoy28 Jan 2013, 07:48 PM
TSFM ? The Scottish Football Monitor
Wouldn’t bother mate, censored to an extreme, comments deleted randomly, most good posters have now left.Today was a prime example- only a half page of comments/ posts. This before one of the most important discussions/ decisions in the history of Scottish football.
It’s a shame really. Taken from kds
liveinhop
Maybe folk here are more in the habit of discussing events as and when they happen rather than before.
Looking forward to LNS – hopefully the investigation will answer many of the questions that we have had since RTC started that blog.
Dissapointed to see the reaction from KDS that liveinhop posted (Monday, January 28, 2013 at 21:02) – while there may not have been much to say recently compared to the busy points pre FTTT – there is no evidence in my eyes that the quality if TRFC has dropped.
goosygoosy says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 20:41
Goosy,
What you describe is perfectly possible. In that course of events however I would still expect my club to ‘tell it to me like it is’ that Sky are blackmailing the leagues to get the product they want and that the clubs must concede or face oblivion. I would not expect another three months of apparent prevaricating before lo and behold ending up with the very participant list every cynic on here predicted last summer. What exactly would the SPL clubs gain from sticking together and towing the party line?
Will be interesting to see how this play’s out.
Inverness CT seek explanation on Danny Wilson eligibility
By Charles Bannerman
BBC Scotland
Inverness are seeking clarification over the eligibility of Hearts player Danny Wilson for last Saturday’s League Cup semi-final.
The Highland side failed to reach their first major cup final, losing to Hearts on penalties at Easter Road .
The query relates to a suspension he picked up whilst with Rangers in 2010.
“As a result of discussions that have taken place, the club will be seeking further details and an explanation,” said an Inverness CT statement.
The Scottish Football Association yesterday stated that Wilson was eligible to play, but it’s unclear as to when the one-game ban was served.
Wilson’s ban, specifically for one Scottish League Cup game , is recorded in SFA documentation dated March 2010.
The 21-year-old was sent off in the 2010 League Cup final, as a nine-man Rangers team defeated St Mirren .
The defender moved to Liverpool before the suspension could be served, but the Inverness statement continued: “There was no notice of suspension accompanying his registration paperwork when he returned from Liverpool.”
Wilson’s Liverpool debut came in an English League Cup tie at home against Northampton.
Should there be no confirmation of when Wilson served his ban, it is possible that the Highland side could challenge the outcome of the match.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21239532?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Robert Coyle @ 22:06
BUT he was a rfc(il) player then……….. The rules don’t matter……….surely!!!! 🙂
Robert Coyle says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 22:06
Will be interesting to see how this play’s out.
Inverness CT seek explanation on Danny Wilson eligibility
By Charles Bannerman
BBC Scotland
===================
No Robert, ICT & the BBC must be mistaken.
Don’t they know that the world’s bestest ever football administrator is SFA President ? 🙄
Re ICT questioning Wilson’s eligibility, please tell me Campbell wasn’t at Rangers when he left with a suspension!
I think the SFL clubs destined to be in the 18 team league will be quite happy. They get at least 1 more season with new rangers.
No Captain you are mistaken. Mr Ogilvie regrettably did not leave with any suspension, just a large brown envelope, a briefcase stuffed full of side letter file copies and a removal van to carry all the brasso he’d need in the future.
Robert Coyle says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 22:06
Will be interesting to see how this play’s out.
Inverness CT seek explanation on Danny Wilson eligibility
“…The Scottish Football Association yesterday stated that Wilson was eligible to play, but it’s unclear as to when the one-game ban was served…”
===========================================
Actually, joking aside could this be rather serious for the SFA ?
Assuming the SFA quote above is correct, but the player in question was in fact ineligible to play for Hearts against ICT…
Then the game would be awarded to ICT. (?)
But also, it would show up the incompetence of the SFA – again [don’t laugh] – and shirley that would necessitate ‘a head to roll’ at Hampden ?
Yes, RC could be interesting indeed…
Anyhoo, forget my last attempt at humour.
“Nows the day and now’s the hour…” the eve of the LNS enquiry, and we will soon see if the professional game is a fix and a sham, or whether some form of justice will prevail after more than a decade of one team not abiding by the rules.
And then, we await a judgement on whether folk at the SFA turned a blind eye.
And then, we await the response of the MSM to the most serious footballing scandal ever in the UK.
smugas says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 21:51
I would still expect my club to ‘tell it to me like it is’ that Sky are blackmailing the leagues to get the product they want and that the clubs must concede or face oblivion.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
smugas
People have short memories
It’s less than 6 months since Regan did a slide presentation predicting financial Armageddon for everybody because Sky ” intended” to walk away if the Sevco new club were not shoehorned into the SFL1 The fact that the Sky deal had another year to run meant the inevitable disaster was delayed
We all know Regan is incompetent
However like Traynor and Donkey he is not smart enough to be a Spiv
So
He was either lying at his presentation or he was not
I suspect he was telling the truth about Sky `s stance on the next TV contract and that the SPL have been looking ever since for a ploy to con fans into accepting a TRFC parachute into least SPL1 or SPL2
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The main priority this week will be to get reconstruction done and dusted before 2013 2014 ST renewals
Any delay will push it back at least 12 months and force Sky to consider rolling over the current TRFC arrangement
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
All the clubs have a golden opportunity to appear to be “sticking it” to TRFC by tacitly endorsing LNS (by declaring they “won`t get involved in saving titles from stripping”)
While
At the same time “reluctantly” having their arms twisted by big bad Sky to make an exception for TRFC going into SPL2
Meanwhile Green will declare he will not join SPL2 under any circumstances
(when what he really wants is to boost next years ST sales)
Stalemate ensues for a few months until Green needs to price his STs
Green caves in and TRFC agree to SPL2 “under protest”
I now fully expect that TRFC will be magically transported into the SPL for the start of next season. That is the only rational explanation for this rushed reconstruction. What surprises me is how accepting most people are of this scenario. Everybody just shrugs their shoulders, shakes their head, and mutters “that’s life” or whatever. Well if and when it happens I’ll be finished with Scottish football at the senior level. The clubs can grab their bit of Sky money, piss it all against the wall on silly wages for mediocre nobodies as usual, and no doubt 99% of fans will just accept that it’s all for the good of the game, we need at least 4 old firm matches every season or the Telly money goes, and similar garbage.
I won’t care, because I won’t pay for it, watch it, listen about it, read about it, or involve myself with it in any way, shape or form. They can keep their bent game, their corrupt administrators, their favouritism. I’ll just regret that I wasted 55 years and a load of money watching a sport that wasn’t actually a sport at all.
As for LNS and his amazingly coincidental enquiry (nothing happens for months, then everything happens in the space of a week- work that one out if you can), whatever is found will, if necessary be overturned on appeal by the SFA, Mr Ogilvie presiding as chief judge, I don’t doubt. And why? Well, that is the price that TRFC will extract from the SFA for deigning to rejoin the SPL, bringing all that lovely TV money with them. Green might well force them all to apologise in public as well, and they’ll do it if he makes them, have no fear.
I won’t be blaming Regan, Doncaster, Longmuir or anyone except the SPL clubs. They are behind this. No doubt it is bribes bullying and blackmail time for the SFL clubs once again. I actually feel sorry for them. We saw how they were brutally shafted when the SPL was formed, so they know what’s coming. They either tow the SPL line on reconstruction, and get a few crumbs, or its the same result by the “gold-edged invitation” route, and those who don’t get invited get thrown to the wolves. Oh, and guess who’s top of the list for invitations? No prizes!
This whole carry on is just sickening now.
There is no chance of a new Rangers playing in the SPL next season fear ye not.
Suicide for any SPL club who voted for it.
I’d never go to a game again if it happened
Long Time Lurker says:
Monday, January 28, 2013 at 21:47
Had a look and responded as follows. Perhaps the added information will change perceptions,
Alex Thomosn did not seem to think so. The blog wanted to concentrate on tackling the SFA for a time, not the oldco/newco debate that was going nowhere. I would have left that discussion but the tsfm moderators want to the blog to be more than a discussion place and I can understand their policy.
The Question of Trust blog that advocates how to get the SFA attention got a response from the SFA that leads to even more serious questions about them that Cosgrove has recognised and will feed into the mainstream and share with his media buddies. He ended the Saturday evening broadcast on BBC Radio saying “there is an absolute loss of trust in the SFA.”
This is an issue that both the SFA and msm have dodged like a smelly jobby in the past.
Getting issues off blogs intro the mainstream is hardly a waste of bandwith and I invite other KDS posters to read both Alex Thomson blogs and the comments to the main blog on a Question Of Trust and make up their own minds.
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/scottish-football-sport-business/3882
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/fan-power-fore-scottish-football/3896
http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
typos corrected on KDS. Oh for an edit facility. 🙂
Possibly a few timely parallels from the story of the Dr Fuentes trial in Spain in the Tom English piece:
“A few years ago, Fuentes was quizzed about his football clients and which clubs they belonged to. “I can’t tell, I have received death threats,” he said. “I was told that, if I told certain things, my family and myself could have serious problems. I’ve been threatened three times and it’s not going to happen a fourth time.
“There are sports against which you cannot go against, because they have access to very powerful legal means to defend themselves. And it could also cost the current chief of the sport his post.””
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-fuentes-doping-case-silent-on-football-1-2761603
ah, pre tribunal nerves!!! Lots of flapping about sevco being put back into the SPL1 because sky demand it and it’ll cost money otherwise
but why do they need to be in the SPL1 at all?
lets face it, league reconstruction will see SPL and SFL merge – SPFL
SPFL will have a single broadcasting contract with sky
Sky will tell them what games they want and schedules will be arranged
Police will dictate to the one body that no 2 big teams will play in the same town on the same day – Celtic/Sevco, Hearts/Hibs, Dundee/Dundee Utd
the TV schedule will revert to
week 1 – Celtics away game
week 2 – Sevco away game
week 3 – Celtics away game
week 4 – Sevco away game
week 5 – Celtics away game
week 6 – Sevco away game
week 7 – Celtics away game
week 8 – Sevco away game
the monotony may be interupted by the odd edinburgh/dundee derby – but that’ll be it
OK, sky won’t get Celtic/Sevco “derbies” but they’ll get the viewership anyway and in 2/3 years sevco will be back in the spl by dint of their financial strength alone.
the only thing that will change will be that sky will pay less for the coverage, the clubs will then get less and that will be further diluted by the fact they are spreading it between 24 clubs instead of 12
this of course will hamper the smaller clubs and suit the clubs with bigger supports – once again, perpetuating the utter pish we’ve watched for 20+ years
Apologies to all. I made a boob on my post last night: Long Time Lurker on Monday, January 28, 2013 at 21:47.
I stupidly made reference to TRFC when I mean’t to type TSFM.
Over at RM there is much involuntary staining of underwear at the moment on account of the latest crowd-pleaser to emanate from their opiate machine …
——
“BRIAN LAUDRUP is in talks with chief executive Charles Green about rejoining Rangers as a club ambassador.
The Light Blues legend, 44 next month, was back in Glasgow today to meet the Yorkshireman at Ibrox for discussions.
It was the first time the pair had met and their 90-minute meeting was extremely productive as they exchanged views on how Gers will move forward.”
——
Jim White to be called in especially to interview him for Rangers TV? 🙂
New tommo blog bit.ly
/T3KCRS
New tommo blog bit.ly/T3KCRS
from STV
The Scottish Football Association have officially confirmed Danny Wilson’s eligibility to play in Hearts’ Scottish League Cup semi-final win over Inverness Caledonian Thistle.
The SFL, who run the competition, confirmed to STV on Sunday the on-loan Liverpool defender was free to play, despite having been sent off in his last participation in the 2010 final.
Competition rules state Wilson should miss his next game in the League Cup but was transferred to Anfield before he had the chance.
FIFA regulations state any outstanding suspensions must be made clear to national associations when a player moves across a border, with the Football Association then applying the ban.
Inverness CT had called for further clarification on Monday night, after it became clear Wilson had featured in Liverpool’s first English League Cup match the following season.
A statement from the Scottish FA on Tuesday clarified the matter: “A one-match League Cup suspension was notified to the FA, as per FIFA regulations, when the player moved to Liverpool in 2010.
“The FA does not operate competition-specific disciplinary procedures, so the suspension was served in the first match of 2010/11, which was Liverpool v Arsenal in the English Premier League.
“There was no outstanding suspension notified to the Scottish FA when player returned to Scotland, so he was eligible to play in the Scottish League Cup semi-final.”
Sorry having problems as using new phone.
I would agree with the analysis of sevco’s anticipated return to the promised land with only one correction. Sevco will take their semi-rightful place by being promoted, conveniently ignoring the 9 teams from SFL2 on the way down so that Green can tell his players and investors that SPL football, that is football against recognised SPL (old) sides is at Ibrox as promised come January 2014. An amended tv deal then follows with the scheduling as above.
Assumption 1 Ally plus war chest can negotiate to top 4 of SPL2, shirley
Assumption 2 TRIFC LTD PLC whatever can stay afloat till then, shirley, shirley
Disgusting but less disgusting than a complete shoe horn job to the top that would surely close the doors.
More so totally unnecessary. Its very broad brush I accept but in ‘keeping’ Rangers in the third tier they would distribute their fan take up throughout that league so there would be less of a need for SPL1+2 monies to be distributed wider. The distribution deal can then be renegotiated year on year. The TV deal wouldn’t change. Yes its tough on Rangers (relative to the stranraer scenario previously highlighted) but then who’s fault is that? Doing it that way I would suggest would keep a larger proportion of fans on-side, you could almost call it a post LNS punishment. Almost.
Repercussions of this option? So Sky take the huff and reduce their deal for a year. Fine. Maximum publicity of their back handedness with actual figures attached. Less monies to split, but then, as above, less need to distribute. Without being overly controversial a greater distribution from place 1 in the SPL1 to places 2-24 wouldn’t be a bad thing. I’m sure a wee deal could be done between the SPL2 and National League teams for a wee dividend to whichever clubs missed the visit of the chosen ones as they get relegated. Two clubs left in the huff. One of those clubs are the CL with a means to make up their loss, plus keep all fans onside. So one club left in the huff. And their options are …?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21238173
English football has been told it must introduce reforms within a year or the government will impose changes.
The ultimatum appears in a new report from the Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee.
The MPs’ report outlines concerns about financial management, the balance of power between the Premier League and the Football Association and the impact of significant risk-taking by owners.
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Fat chance the Scottish Government would have the cojones to open it’s mouth here.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/29/english-football-mps-threaten-reform
I think the same story as PSB at 11:03, but in the guardian
smugas says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 10:37
0 0 Rate This
I would agree with the analysis of sevco’s anticipated return to the promised land with only one correction. Sevco will take their semi-rightful place by being promoted, conveniently ignoring the 9 teams from SFL2
================
Yes, that’s one way it could be done, as was pointed out by a Clyde supporter a couple of weeks back, the authorities have previous on this- I believe it was Stranraer who benefited last time.
The other way is to impose ground standards, or just enforce the existing SPL ones. And if all else fails, let’s imagine the SFL teams won’t play ball, then just invite TRFC in to a shiny new USA style franchise based SPL. They’ll have to be bribed to accept, of course- dropping the LNS enquiry might be enough.
I don’t know or even care exactly how it will be done, but I’m convinced that it will be done. For anybody who imagines that this rush-job, panic button reorganisation is being done for the “good of the game”, all I can say is that it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. This is being done for one reason only- to give TRFC a leg-up. So unless you believe that the game can’t exist without a “Rangers” in the top tier, together with all their bile and arrogance (back to business as usual) then oppose this disgraceful scam by any means possible.
Over at RM there is much involuntary staining of underwear at the moment on account of the latest crowd-pleaser to emanate from their opiate machine …
——
“BRIAN LAUDRUP is in talks with chief executive Charles Green about rejoining Rangers as a club ambassador.
not just RM. was 2nd story on bbc scotland after LNS. followed by hutton (virtually retired) moving from aston villa.
then something about dundee utd needing a new manager and lastly there being an spl game tonight.
Just discussing The Rangers thingy with a Spanish friend here and he told to me what they would say is
El mismo perro un collar diferentes.
which means
THE SAME DOG WITH A DIFFERENT COLLAR!
Seems about right.
sorry Spanishcelt
at the risk of incurring the wrath of TSFM….it’s NOT the same dog, it’s a new owner, new collar, new lead, new dog….the only thing the same is its name (and its aggressive, antisocial nature)
if we still had dog licenses, they would be using another, dead, dogs license
PM@12.00
“not just RM. was 2nd story on bbc scotland after LNS. followed by hutton (virtually retired) moving from aston villa.
then something about dundee utd needing a new manager and lastly there being an spl game tonight.”
…AND it was a news story on the danish national radio this morning….must have long tenticles that James Traynor 🙂
From KDS. The Five Way Agreement draft. Click the spoiler to view.
If genuine interesting reading.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12014473&t=8748656
Brian Laudrup??? Ambassador ??? Were the 3 titles he won with dead gers won fairly and squarely, were all his team-mates declaring all income to the Scottish football authorities 😉
Some depressing reading over the last couple of days.
Must confess to feeling a sense of foreboding myself that the SPL, SFA will bottle the LNS.
Guess it’ll be another ST rebellion and letters to our Chairmen like last summer?
Title-stripping the ultimate sanction? As we say in Aberdeen: “Fit?”
Nothing less than a ban from the top league, a fine AND SPL Title, Scottish Cup stripping is acceptable.
Can someone tweet Chris McLaughlin and ask who told him title stripping is the most serious sanction available?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 12:27
sorry Spanishcelt
at the risk of incurring the wrath of TSFM….it’s NOT the same dog, it’s a new owner, new collar, new lead, new dog….the only thing the same is its name (and its aggressive, antisocial nature)
if we still had dog licenses, they would be using another, dead, dogs license
………………………………………………………………………………………….
Thats really what I was getting at, I suppose the more true translation of what he was saying to me was you CANT change a dog simply by changing its collar.
And what I was getting at was, the nature of the beast has not and will not change regardless how many new collars they put on it.
.
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 12:33
From KDS. The Five Way Agreement draft. Click the spoiler to view.
If genuine interesting reading. http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12014473&t=8748656
Only the evenly numbered pages of the document have been copied, so isn’t really very informative.
Pity.
It is already too late.
The five way agreement as I have read it from the link above, signalled indubitably the end of football in Scotland as a sport. It represented its reemergence as a commercial entity within the entertainment business.
The idea that professional football in Scotland ctually exists as sport – is essentially untrue.
We have a governing body which has abrogated its powers to two commercial league bodies who have then seen fit to rewrite its rule book to accommodate an entirely new commercial company , and a club which at the time had no means by which to play and which is now dead.
None of us should have anything to do with any professional football in Scotland if we wish to maintain our self respect.
Nothing less than a total boycott by all fans of all clubs to bring about the SFA’s collapse will suffice IMHO. Anything less and those who drafted this agreement will have won.
The clubs to whom most of us profess, or once professed, a degree of allegiance are all party to it. They do not deserve our support. They have proven by accepting SEVCO in as Rangers that they are not sporting organisations worthy of loyalty but commercial companies with no ethical principles, worthy of our contempt.
We should all turn our back on all of them, and put political pressure on the Scottish government to withhold all public funding given to football through the SFA.
A new body should be set up by genuine “clubs” who play football, and this body should govern the game at grassroots level. The professional game should be cut adrift and allowed to survive as a purely entertainment enterprise.
The pretence of rules and procedures that is still gone through in Professional Scottish professional football is disgusting, frankly.
Jack Jarvis says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 13:10
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 12:33
From KDS. The Five Way Agreement draft. Click the spoiler to view.
If genuine interesting reading. http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12014473&t=8748656
Only the evenly numbered pages of the document have been copied, so isn’t really very informative.
Pity.
============================
It’s all there Jack. And, as Parsons St Bhoy says, very interesting if genuine.
On the dogs – they have replaced a just about controllable ugly dog with a banned illegal killer breed – it seems to me.
can anyone confirm if Oldco RFC (IL), Sevco, RIFC PLC, TRFC, The TRFFF or any other person of a blue persuasion will be at the LNS inquiry this week?
are they turning up at all?
Does anyone have a timeframe for the LNS investigation . When do we expect some news from it
liveinhop says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 13:28
0 0 Rate This
Does anyone have a timeframe for the LNS investigation . When do we expect some news from it
—————————————-
they have pencilled in 4 days for it this week
i think there MAY be provision for a couple of days next week if required also
no idea when the pee-ons that are supporters will be told anything….lot of backroom deals to be done before any announcement i guess
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: Thank you
blu says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 13:17
Jack Jarvis says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 13:10
Parson St. Bhoy says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 12:33
From KDS. The Five Way Agreement draft. Click the spoiler to view.
If genuine interesting reading. http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12014473&t=8748656
Only the evenly numbered pages of the document have been copied, so isn’t really very informative.
Pity.
============================
It’s all there Jack. And, as Parsons St Bhoy says, very interesting if genuine.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
My sincere apologies, Parson St. Bhoy. I hadn’t scrolled to the right. What am I like?
Two quick thoughts because its late over here, but I had to get a point across:
1) The SFA’s response to Wilsongate. 5 years ago I’d probably of accepted a plausible story as fact, but forgive me if I am a little less trusting these days. A very quick google for Liverpool v Arsenal August 2010 match preview brings up a number of previews for the match from many news sources (bless google and bless the OTT English media coverage)
The problem is, not ONE of them lists Wilson as suspended. Now, granted, this is not conclusive proof of more lies from the SFA, but I can find more proof he was not, than he was. Surely they thought about the internet bampots doing a bit of internet research on this one?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/13/squad-sheets-liverpool-arsenal
2) The KDS 5 way agreement. Looks credible but not convinced its real. If it is, the last part basically says that no player was registered to Sevco as of the Brechin game. Which reopens the question, exactly who did Brechin play that day?
Afternoon: I’ve tried to put that item from KDS into a more readable form, on a pdf @ http://borussiabeefburg.wordpress.com/ Hope that helps!
lagerbeer says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 12:55
Title-stripping the ultimate sanction? As we say in Aberdeen: “Fit?”
Nothing less than a ban from the top league, a fine AND SPL Title, Scottish Cup stripping is acceptable.
——
I thoroughly agree. There has been much propaganda about how title-stripping is the “ultimate sanction”, with much accompanying wailing and gnashing of teeth from Govan.
If RFC are found guilty and the outcome is limited to title-stripping, they can consider themselves to have got away VERY lightly. A ban from the top league should be scheduled to start from the season where they first qualify to be in it, too. And not via swicking by artificial promotion, either.
I’ve been on KDS and read the agreement which was always going to leak.
Its not and never was a 5 way summit.
It is a three way legal document lifeline offered jointly to Sevco and Rangers in administration. offering them (as a minimum) a place in SFL1.
That may have been headed off at the pass by the fan and diddy club revolt but the SFL3 offer was still contrary to the rules.
And the finagling was done with the full knowledge of many of the member clubs.
Our clubs were complicit and sadly if your club has a seat any of the boards then they are part of the scam and the corruption.
Nobody from these boards is on record as far as I know stating that they felt that all the three powers should do is follow their rules.
And nobody resigned and blew the whistle about what was going on.
It all makes the SFA glossy brochure that appeared last week spouting rhetoric about integrity and honesty a total joke.
And while I agree with Stewart Cosgrove when he said that some good things are happening I’d say the good guys working in Scottish Football are “Lions led by donkeys”.
We need a clean out starting with Regan, Ogilvy, Doncaster and Longmuir.
Hope they got paid up front.
Field Fisher Waterhouse corporate finance partner Christine Phillips spent much of 2012 on one of the highest-profile deals of the year, advising Rangers FC.
Rangers’ assets have now been floated on the AIM-listing and the club has raised £22m to improve its facilities and capital and boost the squad after liquidation saw it go from its premier position among Scottish football clubs to a lowly place in the third division of the Scottish Football League.
“It was a business that supported a lot of other suppliers,” says Phillips, “so inevitably for any football club to struggle economically in any city it causes problems for a lot of local businesses.
.“It’s important that you feel you’re doing something constructive for the local economy and with that club it was such a massive brand with a very dedicated and loyal supporter base that it has also been very rewarding to think that you’re helping the survival of the club.”
The deal was a rewarding but trying one, with the club’s fortunes all the while in the public eye. The consortium led by Charles Green, the club’s former owner, attempted to structure assets as acompany voluntary arrangement to try and ensure the survival of the club and its Scottish premier League membership.
Key creditor HMRC refused to support this, which meant the construction of a newco and the subsequent vote by the Scottish Football League for Rangers to
join the third rather than first division.
Phillips has both secured admission to AIM and an offer to fans to buy shares in their club, the total value of which is now £45.6m. Her work will make her popular with at least half of Glasgow.
Field Fisher Waterhouse corporate finance partner Christine Phillips spent much of 2012 on one of the highest-profile deals of the year, advising Rangers FC.
.“It’s important that you feel you’re doing something constructive for the local economy and with that club it was such a massive brand with a very dedicated and loyal supporter base that it has also been very rewarding to think that you’re helping the survival of the club.”
__________________________________________________________________________________
. . . . only let’s not bother with the Rule of Law, the Creditors, the Taxpayer, or Justice.
Nice work Christine.
I was also going to add –
.
Christine Phillips: “It’s important that you feel you’re doing something constructive for the local economy and with that club it was such a massive brand with a very dedicated and loyal supporter base that it has also been very rewarding to think that you’re helping
the survival of the” – poison of Loyalism in Scotland.
But I decided against it.
Having started to read the draft copy of the 5-way agreement, it struck me that unless the Recital (H) was amended in the final copy changing Division 1 to Division 3, then the agreement is not worth the paper it’s written on.
If not how can the authorities hold “Sevco” responsible for any of RFC IL misdemeanors, when they obviously failed to deliver their part of the agreement, (Div 1 status in 2012/13). Charles Green will simply tell them to clear off as they “welshed on the deal first”.
Looks like the SFA, (Sevco Friendly Appeasers) have been well and truly spivved.
iceman63 says:
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 at 13:16
42 1 Rate This
It is already too late.
The five way agreement as I have read it from the link above, signalled indubitably the end of football in Scotland as a sport. It represented its reemergence as a commercial entity within the entertainment business.
========
I fear it’s even worse than you think. The document in the link is a draft, which I seem to recall was leaked by Charles Green back in the summer, to put pressure on the authorities regarding some grievance at the time. I believe it was copied on RTC, but a bit hard to check now. There was a lot of negotiating done after that draft, with Green playing hardball, so you can be sure of this- the final version, shrouded in secrecy since it was signed, is much, much worse than anything we have seen so far.
New Tommo blog
Also just mentioned on SSN
http://t.co/jksxgkia