From the TSFM Manifesto š
A spectre is haunting Scottish Football ā the spectre of Sporting Integrity. All the powers of the old firms have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Billy and Dan, Blazer and Cassock, Record and Sun, Balance Sheet and P&L.
Where is the football fan in opposition to these that has not been decried as a “sporting integrity bampot” by his opponents in power?Two things result from this fact:
I. Sporting Integrity is already widely acknowledged to be itself a power for good.
II. It is high time that Lovers of Sport should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Sporting Integrity with a manifesto of fair play.
To this end, Lovers of Sport of various partisanship have assembled on TSFM and sketched their manifesto, to be published on tsfm.scot.
Those who love sport though are challenged not just by the taunts of the monosyllabic automatons in the MSM, but by the owners of our football clubs who have displayed an almost total disregard to our wish to have a fair competition played out in the spirit of friendly rivalry. In fact the clubs, who speak those fine words, are not nearly as outraged as we are by the damage done to the integrity of the sport in the past few years .
In fact the term Sporting Integrity has become, since the latter stages of the Rangers era, a term ofĀ abuse; a mocking soubriquet attached to those who want sport to be just that – sport.
Sporting integrity now lives in the same media pigeon-hole as words like Islam, left-wing, militant, Muslim – and a host of others; words which are threats to the established order now set up as in-jokes, in order to reduce the effectiveness of the idea.
In fact, a new terminology has evolved in the reporting of football by both club officials and The Succulent Lamb Chapel alike;
“.. Sporting Integrity but …”.
For example
“We all want sporting integrity, but finance is more important”
Says who exactly?
Stated in such a matter of fact way that the obvious question is headed off at the pass, it is sometimes difficult to re-frame the discussion – perhaps because crayon is so hard to erase?
This is the backdrop to The Scottish Football Monitor and the world in which we live. Often the levels of scrutiny employed by our contributors are far in excess of any scrutiny employed by the MSM. Indeed our ideas and theories are regularly plagiarised by those very same lazy journalists who lurk here, and cherry-pick material to suit their own agendas; regularly claiming exclusives for stories that TSFM and RTC before us had placed in the public domain weeks earlier.
This was going to lead into a discourse about the love of money versus the love of sport – of how the sacred cows of acquisitiveness, gate- retention and turnstile spinning is far more important to the heads of our football clubs (the Billys, Dans and Blazers of the intro) than maintaining the traditions of our sport.
However events of Friday 14th November have given me cause to leave that for another day. The biggest squirrel of all in this sorry saga has always been the sleight of hand employed instil a siege mentality in the Rangers fans. The press have time and again assisted people (with no love of football in general or Rangers in particular) to enrich themselves – legally or otherwise – and feed on the loyalty of Rangers fans.
A matter for Rangers fans may also be the identity of some of those who had their trust, butĀ who also assisted the Whytes and Greens by their public statements of support.
Our contention has been that rules have been bent twisted or broken to accommodate those people, the real enemies of the Rangers fans – and fans everywhere.
Through our collective research and group-analysis of events, we have also wondered out loud about the legality of many aspects of the operating style of some of the main playersĀ in the affair. That suspicion has been shared most notably by Mark Daly and Alex Thompson, but crucially now appears to be shared by Law Enforcement.
I confess I am fed up with the self-styled “bampot” epithet. For the avoidance of doubt, the “bampots” in this affair are those who have greater resources than us, and access to the truth, but who have lacked either the will orĀ theĀ courage or the imagination to follow it through.
We are anything but bampots. Rather, weĀ have demonstrated that the wisdom of the crowd is more effective by far than any remnants of wisdom in the press.
I have no doubt that the police investigation into this matter is proceeding in spite of great opposition in the MSM and the Scottish Football Authorities – all of whom conspired to expose Rangers to the custodianship of those for whom football is a foreign language.
I have no doubt that the constant exposition of wrong-doing on this blog, in particular the questions we have constantly raised, and anomalies we have pointed out, has assisted and enabled the law enforcement agencies in this process.
If we are to be consistent in this, our enabling of the authorities, we MUST show restraint at all times as this process is followed through. People who are charged with a crime deserve to be given a fair trial in the absence of rumour or innuendo. We must also, if we are to continue as the spectre which haunts the avaricious – and the real bampots – be seen to be better than they, and give them no cause to accuse us of irresponsibility.
This affair has now evolved way beyond one club gaining unfair advantage over others. For all the understandable Schadenfreude of many among us, the real enemy is not Rangers, it is about those who enabled and continue to enable the farce at Ibrox.
This is now about systematic cheating at the heart of the Scottish game (in the name of cash and in spite of lip service to sporting integrity), and how the greed of a bunch of ethically challenged officials allowed another group of ethically challenged businessmenĀ free rein to enrich themselves at the expense of the fans.
Whether laws were broken or not, theĀ players at Rangers have come and gone and are variables, but the malignant constant at the SFA and SPFL are still there. Last night, even after the news that four men had been arrested in connection with the takeover at Ibrox in 2011, they were gathered together at Celtic Park with their Irish counterparts, tucking into succulent lamb (perhaps) and fine wines, doing someĀ back slapping, makingĀ jokes about the vulgarities of their fans, bragging about the ST money they have banked.
The revolution won’t be over until they are gone, and if they remain, it is Scottish Football that will be over.
Cheers futbol,
I think I’ll go with your summary! š
mcfc says:
December 11, 2014 at 12:59 pm
On cancelling Christmas, I should have mentioned customer service dropping through the floor. On a recent night flight with United,
=================================================================
mcfc,
Somewhat stunned to hear that you flew with United! I’ll bet it was red wine as well.
ecobhoy says:
December 11, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I know we’re a long way from any outcome re the alleged ‘Fraudulent Four’ (Five, if you include CW), but how bad will it look for the IPA if guilt is established after their previous clearing of the administrators?
Is there an industry body above them as regulators who could rap their knuckles? Or, is it the current Govt who would comment on their effectiveness?
Haywire says:
December 11, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Somewhat stunned to hear that you flew with United! Iāll bet it was red wine as well.
=============================================================
Haywire, absolute last choice mate š White wine with a touch of blue Bols for me.
Just to try to and bring closure on the EBT loan definition discussion. The easiest way to think of it is that the players (plus the odd administrator, national team manager or two) received a loan similar to an endowment mortgage backed with a death only policy from the trust (and as someone pointed out it is important to remember it was the legally distinct trust as opposed to RFC, Murray Group or whatever). There was and is no need to make any repayments to an endowment mortgage. When the loan recipient dies the separate ‘policy’ pays out to the player’s beneficiary, who also receives in the post a demand for repayment of the player’s loan. The only real difference is that rather than pay instalments into the endowment policy like you or I would RFC paid the gross sum in up front for them (which as Dr Heidi Poon pointed out is really the b-all and end-all of the matter). Also, there is no investment growth in the policy, again as you or I (or indeed one of the more switched on foreign players, was it Gio VB?) would expect to receive since the money paid into the trust is the same money that was loaned back out of it again.
The lack of repayment, whilst the most glaringly obvious two fingers to the system, is not the best angle of attack as HMRC found out to their cost. It is the initial ‘fuelling’ of the arrangement between the tax evader and the Trust that is the weakest link.
If I was a betting man. I’d say that with 2nd away to 3rd and 1st away to 9th, it’s worth a few bob on the gap at the top being in double figures by Saturday tea time.
I hope Ally’s training ground preparation has been rigorous and thorough – you don’t want to be facing that situation without some well rehearsed grimaces and quick fire excuses ready for the MSM.
btw is Willie Vos a freeelance? If so, I’d say his best earning photo for the next home game will be a shot of players with the max number of seats unwarmed by paying arses in the background.
rougvielovesthejungle says:
December 11, 2014 at 7:24 am
‘..According to that, young Neil benefited to the tune of 500k via an EBT and the Beeb had seen his side letter as evidence too.’
———
Thank you,rougvieltj: I was relying on what seems now like a 100-year-old memory of the colourful names in the FTTT transcript!
And here was me thinking that at least one player ( and I thought it was the McCann chappie)had had the savvy to decline the offer of an EBT.I must dig out my hard copy and see what might have made me jump to that incorrect conclusion. Not that I’ve anything in particular against McCann, but I’ll be damned if I give him any credit that he’s not due!
Further to my post at 2.21 pm today, I think I’ve found where I made the mistake: it was a reference to Mr Gold (van Bronckhorst) that I had in mind, not to Mr Purple (who was McCann, I think).
Reading para 51 again, I think all it says is that van Bronckhorst did not take advantage of the ‘loan’ facility. But of course, some part of his earnings were paid into a Trust fund, which he said he knew he did not control.
That may be all right, tax-wise, in his particular case ( possibly the way the scheme was theoretically meant to work!). But whether right in tax law or not, the non-disclosure to the SFA and SPL of his total emoluments is part of the monstrous Football ‘crime’ perpetrated by SDM, for which he has still to be publicly and properly disgraced.
( Mr Purple’s case is the next one discussed, so I think that’s where I got the names mixed up).
Anyone noticed that The National is remarkably free of Ibrox dramas? There’s a refreshingly balanced sports coverage in the main articles. No doubt too much Celtic for some, although the current European run probably merits the coversge.
Worth a mention on TSFM I thought.
Slow Hand ?
After so long, Iām finding it hard to accept that The Rangers will actually just go bust again by simply running out of money. Theyāve dodged so many bullets for so long itās hard to imagine them just not being around anymore.
For starters, administrators will need to balance in-comings and out-goings and cease trading rather than running up further debts. Given the lack of actual revenue and the apparent absence of angels and sugar daddies it seems that would be almost immediate. Then thereās the matter of selling off the business as a going concern (titter ye not) or selling off assets to repay creditors or reaching a CVA to prevent shareholders losing everything. This all seems like a very brief prelude to liquidation since so many options are already non-starters. Itās all very well talking about riding a points penalty, but what happens when the gates are locked, the turf is sold off to a local garden centre, and you can buy an engraved seat for Ā£20 or Ā£30 in a frame.
Then thereās the question of who will give a damn this time and who will risk careers to protect what is theirs. So many fans seem immobilised by confusion and apathy about how to depose the board and kill the company whilst supporting their club or team or whatever. Also, people in high places are leaving it very late with Armageddon Again and Civil Unrest warnings.
Like a virgin anticipating the first time, so many expectations, so many possibilities, and so many unknowns, I do hope itās memorable and not a big disappointment, that comes and goes in a heated rush.
Assuming that the story about Llambias ‘cancelling’ Christmas at Ibrox is true, is that not a clear indicator of just how hands-on this NED is, if he is supposedly involved at that level of detail ?
And – again – it trumpets just how influential Ashley has become at TRFC ?
In the great scheme of things – as mentioned above – to save a few quid this decision will probably create a disproportionate amount of grief and ill feeling at Ibrox.
I’m sure a head shot of Llambias superimposed on a Scrooge picture is flying around Govan computers as we type… š
StevieBC
http://t.co/eYiknwEi1f
In other news, guess which one of the eight Scottish cup ties is live on the BBC
Pete Lambie says:
December 11, 2014 at 3:38 pm
An own goal Terry Butcher would have been proud of.
=======================================================
I imagine “dumb insolence” will be the order of the day at Ibrox now that Christmas is cancelled. I’m sure Mr Llambias is no stranger to that – but it won’t make life for him, Mike and David any easier. I wonder if the āticket office staff had calculated the gate at precisely 15,902.ā leak was the first sign from someone who got wind of the non-arrangement of festivities.
It would be a great PR coup for McCoist if he put his hand in his own pocket and paid for the staff Christmas do…
Might cost him a couple of days pay ?
@Smugas:
Not to restart, since you were trying to draw a line under things, but I’m trying to recall precisely how the liability for the player’s loan from the trust gets to the beneficiary. Is the beneficiary, named in the trust, the player’s estate or an actual individual? Because I can understand how the player’s estate would assume the liability for the loan upon death, which would exactly cancel the benefit paid out by the trust to the estate, but not why an individual beneficiary would have to assume liability.
StevieBC says:
December 11, 2014 at 3:57 pm
It would be a great PR coup for McCoist if he put his hand in his own pocket and paid for the staff Christmas doā¦
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I’m sure Derek has given Ally the talk about the birds and the bees. Any such sign of defianace / disloyalty to his masters would no doubt see Super bouncing down the marble stairs on his ample, with the fond farewell of “see you in court over your payoff, you useless …. “
Mike Ashley cancels Christmas at Rangers:
Two years ago Mike Ashley cancelled Christmas at Newcastle United and now he has repeated the dose at Rangers…
http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-articles/mike-ashley-cancels-christmas-rangers/
McCoist lecturing other clubs today about sticking to the agreed rules. He REALLY said that! Wow, wow, and triple wow!
The fact the media drooled over such nonsense proves McCoist really is untouchable.
andygraham.66 says:
December 11, 2014 at 3:43 pm
http://t.co/eYiknwEi1f
In other news, guess which one of the eight Scottish cup ties is live on the BBC
=========================================================
Someone should tell the BBC schedulers to get a plan B in place – what about Liquidator aka The Evil That Men Do
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087222/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Does Scottish football still have a representative in Europe tonight?
I logged on to BBC Sport > Scottish Football site and found the three big/only titles to be:
1 ā McCoist hits back over Telfer fee
2 ā Title challenge a big ask ā Jackie McNamara
3 ā Awardee Robbie Neilson eyes main prize
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/scottish/
Thatās two lower league ānon-topicsā, one premier, and NO EUROPEAN COVERAGE.
We are still in the ice ages as far as the media for Sottish Football are concerned, only worse, cos they didnae have fitba in the ice age.
Something no’ right, somewhere…
sixtaeseven says:
December 11, 2014 at 5:44 pm
7 2 Rate This
Does Scottish football still have a representative in Europe tonight?
I logged on to BBC Sport > Scottish Football site and found the three big/only titles to be:
1 ā McCoist hits back over Telfer fee
2 ā Title challenge a big ask ā Jackie McNamara
3 ā Awardee Robbie Neilson eyes main prize
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/scottish/
Thatās two lower league ānon-topicsā, one premier, and NO EUROPEAN COVERAGE.
We are still in the ice ages as far as the media for Sottish Football are concerned, only worse, cos they didnae have fitba in the ice age.
Something noā right, somewhereā¦
===========
Yep, its wall to wall Rangers at the BBC right now.
What with extended interviews with Charlie Miller and Barry Ferguson on Sportsound in recent weeks, in which other Rangers fans like Kenny McIntyre spent the whole time talking up Rangers and feeding the interviewees with carefully teed up opportunities to push a few agendas.
I’ve seen no mention whatsoever of a significant announcement from Afc today either:
http://www.afc.co.uk/news/5453.php#.VIniBWSsWaS
But then there IS armageddon to be promoted by the media and we can’t expect them to find much time for any positive stories or real football coverage.
Matty
Very good news indeed. Wonder how much that’s worth?
4 Xmas parties?
Canuckbhoy,
Again I repeat my no knowledge disclaimer, but again I’ll ignore that and have a stab anyway!
The beneficiary will ultimately be responsible for the players estate. If he’s destitute and penniless then the estate will have to ask for the award back. I’m assuming it’ll be legally tighter than that btw (I blumin well hope it is). More likely the player will have assets on death which the beneficiary is expecting – he/she probably knows nothing about the damn loan, they’re just eying up the marble pool statues and the like. So they get them, receive a letter to say (in jimmy cricket fashion) there’s more which is to say the beneficiary gets his trust fund less the loan. Result – the beneficiary gets sod all more than he would otherwise have gotten anyway the player having already gotten all ‘the benefit.’
Ps there will be IHT benefits too but that is beyond my wee brain.
UTH at 5.30pm. Isn’t it the case that whoever sits in the Ibrox hotseat is untouchable by the SMSM.
sixtaeseven @ 5:44pm
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they manage to find plenty of space to cover Scottish teams in Europe tomorrow.
Re Telfer compensation – and apologies if this has already been covered – Rangers Youth Development Ltd was not liquidated. This subsidiary company continues to operate and was unaffected by the original club’s liquidation. It was purchased by Sevco in its entirety from D&P in 2012.
Therefore whatever compensation is due to RYD Ltd is ultimately – and correctly – going to the new club. Dundee Utd did not use the OCNC argument because, in this case, it simply did not apply.
God bless the new media. Never actually listened to @Scotzine’s radio webcast. Good listen:
On the plus side I see some of you’ve got the media coverage of the game you were hoping for.
Please please do not complain about non coverage of Celtic in the media, unless any club is playing Celtic they wont be on radio or TV in the SPL.
I exclude Friday nights whereby the wee clubs have their games changed to suit TV.
Other than that its wall to wall Celtic in the SPL and Pretendygers in whatever.
Same old. If its not on BBC Sky’s got the rights.
I don’t know if anyone has referred to this part of the DR article referring to the removal the nonsense in the TRFC statement but I found the only quote from United to be quite interesting, particularly in view of the fact that a ‘myth’ isn’t created in a matter of hours, and is certainly not ‘perpetuated’ in such a short period of time; more like 2 to 3 years I’d have thought. I wonder what the spokesman could have been referring to:
‘A United source told Record Sport: “The club were raging at Rangers perpetuating this myth.
“It was and always has been totally inaccurate and the fact that they acted so quickly to change their statement acknowledges that.” ‘
On the claims that BDO have contacted TRFC over their statement, if true, then we won’t be hearing any more of such a spurious claim from the club, though there’s not much BDO can do about the press or non-TRFC employees making similar statements, I’d imagine. If, however, the club do issue statements along similar lines in the future, and escape a more severe censure, then I think we will know the internet claims were erroneous.
Now that such a statement re the continuation of the club is so prominent in the press, I expect our intrepid journos will be falling over themselves to get a quote from the board on the matter, certainly before the upcoming AGM. It is, after all, very important that their core readership know one way or the other what club they actually support, and for the shareholders it’s pretty important too!
I havenāt posted for a while, but I thought Iād seek clarification on the nature of the EBTs, given some recent comments ā I didnāt really follow this too closely at the time, but I got the impression from various comments that the following was the case:
1.The Murray Group paid large sums of money into an EBT
2.The Trustees of the EBT divided these amounts into sub-trusts, designed to provide benefits for employees or their relatives
3.The beneficiaries (in particular the employees) could apply for loans, and at their discretion, the trustees would decide (or not ā hah!) to make the loan.
Additionally
4. These loans were nominally repayable within 10 years
5. If the rate of interest charged on these loans was less than the market rate, then theoretically a tax charge would be due, presumably annually.
6. On the employeeās death, the proceeds of the trust would be expected to be paid out.
Several things are not clear to me
Under 2, whether the notional beneficiaries included the employee, or merely their family.
Under 4, whether these loans are actually repayable at a specific date, or whether any loan has been repaid to date.
Under 5, whether any taxable charge has arisen or been paid.
Under 6, whether the ex-employeeās estate would have a debt to settle
Under 6, whether the trustees would have discretion over to whom to allocate the funds, and whether such discretion would avoid IHT.
Neither is it clear (7) how the trustees are remunerated, (8) how any residual assets are invested, and to what extent the loans could be repayable (9) to the sub-trust or (10) master trust on demand Nor is it clear (11) whether there is any scope for returning assets from the EBT to the parent company, should it still exist.
It would be nice if anyone could clarify any of these points. Although there may be implications for the tax affairs of various individuals, playersā remuneration is not really any of my business and I donāt believe for an instant the fact that a player has a pension from Club B or an EBT from Club C makes any difference if they are salaried by Club D
What was relevant was the potential for a large tax bill threatening the solvency of a major Scottish football club, the possibility that there had been breaches of the disclosure requirements on remuneration packages, and the oddity of certain EBTs being awarded to people with no apparent contemporaneous connection to Ibrox. On the middle point, the details of Campbell Ogilvieās own benefit package are irrelevant, but the fact he was a beneficiary raises such a conflict that his continued presence compromises the integrity of the SFA. I have no doubt that he is a competent administrator, and it is perhaps this that makes him a useful ally for Stuart Regan to have. I imagine that Mr Regan had no idea of the extent of the issues that needed sorting when he took over his current role.
Finally, if I may raise a bugbear of mine ā spelling of peopleās names (in this case, Macleod). I have seen blogs here and elsewhere misspell the name of either the Lawyers or the apparently promising young footballer of that name; this seems a tad amateurish, surely?
My uneducated answers to your questions
Apologies for my spelling in advance š
1/. Employee could not be a beneficiary.
2/. Loans are repayable, with the decision whether to extend that date presumably falling to the same guy who decides if (hah) you’re getting a loan in the first place.
3/. I would need to go back to my initial ruling on this but I recall there was an in built interest charge (notional obviously) to get around the taxable benefit arguement.
4/. Yes the employees estate would have a debt to settle, but the trust has an obligation to pay out to the beneficiary on the death. Coincidentally the two are not entirely dissimilar.
5/. Again I recall comment in the FTT decision about payouts to various beneficiaries (siblings) being remarkably similar to current IHT thresholds but would need to check.
6/. No there is no recourse from master trust to parent entity.
McCaig`s Tower says:
December 11, 2014 at 10:53 pm
I havenāt posted for a while, but I thought Iād seek clarification on the nature of the EBTs, given some recent comments ā I didnāt really follow this too closely at the time, but I got the impression from various comments that the following was the case:
1.The Murray Group paid large sums of money into an EBT
2.The Trustees of the EBT divided these amounts into sub-trusts, designed to provide benefits for employees or their relatives
3.The beneficiaries (in particular the employees) could apply for loans, and at their discretion, the trustees would decide (or not ā hah!) to make the loan.
Additionally
4. These loans were nominally repayable within 10 years
5. If the rate of interest charged on these loans was less than the market rate, then theoretically a tax charge would be due, presumably annually.
6. On the employeeās death, the proceeds of the trust would be expected to be paid out.
Several things are not clear to me
Under 2, whether the notional beneficiaries included the employee, or merely their family.
Under 4, whether these loans are actually repayable at a specific date, or whether any loan has been repaid to date.
Under 5, whether any taxable charge has arisen or been paid.
Under 6, whether the ex-employeeās estate would have a debt to settle
Under 6, whether the trustees would have discretion over to whom to allocate the funds, and whether such discretion would avoid IHT.
Neither is it clear (7) how the trustees are remunerated, (8) how any residual assets are invested, and to what extent the loans could be repayable (9) to the sub-trust or (10) master trust on demand Nor is it clear (11) whether there is any scope for returning assets from the EBT to the parent company, should it still exist.
It would be nice if anyone could clarify any of these points. Although there may be implications for the tax affairs of various individuals, playersā remuneration is not really any of my business and I donāt believe for an instant the fact that a player has a pension from Club B or an EBT from Club C makes any difference if they are salaried by Club D
What was relevant was the potential for a large tax bill threatening the solvency of a major Scottish football club, the possibility that there had been breaches of the disclosure requirements on remuneration packages, and the oddity of certain EBTs being awarded to people with no apparent contemporaneous connection to Ibrox. On the middle point, the details of Campbell Ogilvieās own benefit package are irrelevant, but the fact he was a beneficiary raises such a conflict that his continued presence compromises the integrity of the SFA. I have no doubt that he is a competent administrator, and it is perhaps this that makes him a useful ally for Stuart Regan to have. I imagine that Mr Regan had no idea of the extent of the issues that needed sorting when he took over his current role.
Finally, if I may raise a bugbear of mine ā spelling of peopleās names (in this case, Macleod). I have seen blogs here and elsewhere misspell the name of either the Lawyers or the apparently promising young footballer of that name; this seems a tad amateurish, surely?
Heres a prƩcis of the judgement (under appeal)
http://www.taxjournal.com/tj/articles/ftt-decision-rangers-fc-case-loans-ebts-30112012
I’m with Ms Poon BTW
ianagain says:
December 11, 2014 at 7:44 pm
9 2 Rate This
Matty
Very good news indeed. Wonder how much thatās worth?
4 Xmas parties?
================
I honestly have no idea what this partnership is worth to the club or how long it is expected to last. Perhaps more will be revealed in future. I can only hope it is significant and allows the club to continue to try and bring young players through as well as be active in the community.
There have been some steady but quite noticeable improvement behind the scenes at Aberdeen since George Yule was brought by Milne (although a few other new board appointments were made in the last 2 years and I suspect there is a business savvy board in place now, with connections to local oil industry and some fresh ideas (which have long been needed there).
Stability has to be the ongoing focus so hopefully no one within the club is getting carried away.
The historical debt looks like it will be largely cleared soon so next focus has got to be a sensibly sized training facility (no Murray Park millstone around the neck thanks) and then the big one: the long running stadium issue.
HirsutePursuit says:
December 11, 2014 at 9:15 pm
32 0 Rate This
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HP,
Great pick-up. A quick check on Company Check shows that Green/Stockbridge were appointed as Directors of Rangers Youth Development Ltd on 14/6/2012, so the Youth Development Company survived liquidation, but the “Club” didn’t!
Can we get this one to bed. Do BDO have a claim over the Youth development players or not?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/celtic-europe-hoops-fans-bother-4793270
So was CS gas used or not?
Was the fan being assaulted or helped up?
Was there any arrests?
Why the comparison to previous incident’s?
The only thing we are sure of from the photo is a flare was set off
And all I can say to that is
Bloody Idiots š
Saw this was doing the rounds. It would suggest MA is promoting the upcoming semi-final, which could mean (to my Winnie the Pooh logic) bankrolling Ibrox further. It’s pre-order, so if anything untoward happened it would be a kind of collector’s item souvenir. A tee-shirt marking a domestic semi is in tune with a first for a newco so maybe MA has got it about right after all?
http://www.sportsdirect.com/rangers-league-cup-2015-t-shirt-mens-375155?colcode=37515521
Allyjambo says:
December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm
==================================
I’m no legal person, but I’m willing to take a wild guess at something. If BDO believe the creditors have a claim on say, 70% of the Charlie Telfer money they will go after it. Furthermore, if TRFC receive a letter asking for the 70% or we’ll see you in court, they will hand the money over rather than have their actual legal status discussed in a public court. As I say, only a wild guess (well two wild guesses!) and I know hee-haw about any of these matters.
Danish Pastry says:
December 12, 2014 at 7:00 am
0 0 Rate This
////////////////////
Well it is Pre-order
So may be he is waiting to see what kind of demand there is
Not just for his T-shirt but
The team in blue as a whole
Danish Pastry says:
December 12, 2014 at 7:00 am
—————————-
I am assuming that the contract between Sports Direct and the club/company is such that any unsold stock has to be purchased from the supplier (Sports Direct) at full cost.
The phrase rock and hard place spring to mind.
HP, Rangers Youth Development was noted in the IPO prospectus as being 100% owned by RFCL. Companies House, Duedil and Company Check record that it was dissolved in May 2013, the application process having been initiated in December 2012.
Looking on-line at Sports Direct, there appears to be a range of festive knit wear for Rangers fans this year:
http://www.sportsdirect.com/rangers-xmas-jumper-sn51-376246?colcode=37624618
http://www.sportsdirect.com/rangers-novelty-xmas-jmpr-51-376252?colcode=37625218
If the reports are correct, then Sports Direct require Rangers to purchase all unsold stock at full price.
If this is true MA has cancelled the staff Christmas party via his trusted advisor. Yet at the same time Sports Direct seek to make monies from the sale of targeted Rangers Christmas sporting merchandise.
Looking at those two events together cancelling a Christmas party for hard working staff while also selling merchandise on the back of the festive season to make money on very good terms for the supplier, is in my mind a boot in the unmentionables. Ho, Ho, Ho…
A one off 1st Feb League Cup semi final v Celtic commemorative shirt
What a wheeze
Couple that with compulsory purchase of a half season ticket paid for before Xmas and TRFC get enough money to guarantee Liquidation in Jan
upthehoops says:
December 12, 2014 at 7:05 am
Furthermore, if TRFC receive a letter asking for the 70% or weāll see you in court, they will hand the money over rather than have their actual legal status discussed in a public court.
_________________________________________
Of that you can be assured!
By the way, if you are not a legal person, does that give you the same status as the ongoing entity ‘Rangers Football Club’? Do you realise you could live forever?
OK, rotten joke, but it is Friday, everyone will have recovered from it by midnight! š
My opinion but Semi T-Shirts and Christmas jumpers are as naff as they come but as discussed it can be the only thing that Ashley is really interested in. Perhaps he will get the football club on the straight and narrow but the main aim will be to do that with minimal cost to himself with a view to getting enough mugs to buy tat of this nature so he can get a return on any investment, turn a profit and gain whatever publicity and marketing for the benefit of Sports Direct.
It is no more than a punt for big Mike.
Really can’t see many Bears buying a commemorative T-Shirt for a Cup SF TBH. The old Club was used to reaching (and winning) Cup Finals. To commemorate reaching a Cup SF is somewhat naff and the kind of thing diddy clubs from one of the lower leagues tend to do. Oh, wait …………… š
I am another disgruntled Scottish football fan. Went along to buy ticket for Dundee United v Aberdeen game. Sold out. Armageddon indeed.
And I suspect the tickets sold are real rather than the case at some grounds.
HirsutePursuit says:
December 11, 2014 at 9:15 pm
Rangers Youth Development Ltd was not liquidated. This subsidiary company continues to operate and was unaffected by the original clubās liquidation.
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Rangers Youth Development Ltd doesn’t continue to operate. Messrs Green, Stockbridge & Dickson submitted an application to Companies House on 29 December 2012 to have the company voluntarily struck-off the Register. The company was finally dissolved on 10 May 2013.
There are a number of interesting issues surrounding this company which ‘owned’ the youth players.
In fact from my initial look at it I’m starting to understand how Green believed he did indeed ‘own’ the players and that Tupe didn’t apply especially if they were still youth players or had come through that system and graduated to the first team.
But it’s early days and who knows where things might lead š”
Allyjambo says:
December 12, 2014 at 9:25 am
_____________________________________-
š š
We are (nearly) all ‘not legal persons’!!!!!
We will see this through š
HirsutePursuit says:
December 11, 2014 at 9:15 pm
47 0 Rate This
Re Telfer compensation ā and apologies if this has already been covered ā Rangers Youth Development Ltd was not liquidated. This subsidiary company continues to operate and was unaffected by the original clubās liquidation. It was purchased by Sevco in its entirety from D&P in 2012.
Therefore whatever compensation is due to RYD Ltd is ultimately ā and correctly ā going to the new club. Dundee Utd did not use the OCNC argument because, in this case, it simply did not apply.
===========================================
HP you make a very clear concise case and you have me largely convinced that as you say the development company was bought as an asset and is now owned by “Sevco” therefore they would be due the entire value of the compensation payment.
Except for one thing that confuses me..
In what way were these players actually assets of the development company? As far as I can see the Development company cannot register the players with the SFA & SPFL as they are not a member of those organisations, RFC was.
So could the players have been registered by RFC and therefore as far as the SFA are concerned “owned” by RFC in football terms.
And does this bring us back to the conclusion that the Oldco is actually due a proportion of the compensation as they were the recognised “owner” of those players in football terms?
I am probably speaking nonsense again, but its still not clear to me how the SPFL decide who is due monies in this sort of situation.
Henry and Ally
Henry Ford said “an engineer is someone who can make for a dime what anyone could make for a dollar”
Ally’s latest is effectively saying, “I need to outspend amateur teams by twenty times because me and my hand chosen team canāt manage talented youngsters to beat enthusiastic, working lads in an amateur league.”
And there you have the problem that The Rangers can never escape. They think that money, powerful friends and Rangersness are a viable alternative to professionalism, intelligence, hard work, talent and ambition in every position throughout their āClubā. It doesnāt matter how many times they defibrillate their āClubā, it is always doomed while they believe that. Once they stop believing that it is no longer their āClubā and they are no longer āThe Peopleā, Once they get it, if ever, theyāll have to learn all about the ups and downs of football from scratch ā just like everyone else has.
Ally, how do you think Henry define a football manager?
Long Time Lurker says:
December 12, 2014 at 9:17 am
18 0 Rate This
Looking on-line at Sports Direct, there appears to be a range of festive knit wear for Rangers fans this year:
http://www.sportsdirect.com/rangers-xmas-jumper-sn51-376246?colcode=37624618
http://www.sportsdirect.com/rangers-novelty-xmas-jmpr-51-376252?colcode=37625218
If the reports are correct, then Sports Direct require Rangers to purchase all unsold stock at full price.
———
Wow! Insult to injury. Have you actually heard that @LTL?
I see the snowman on knitwear 2 has a bowler hat …
Matty Roth says:
December 12, 2014 at 10:39 am
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I think ecobhoy had a š” (lightbulb moment) a couple of days back when he realised that we were talking about 3rd party ownership here. Remember Sheffield United slugging it out with the EPL and West Ham when it came to light Carlos Tevez wasn’t actually owned by West Ham when his presence certainly contributed to West Ham avoiding relegation at Sheffield United’s expense. England doesn’t permit third party ownership of players but it does appear to be in a minority.
If the players were owned by the Youth Development Company at the time the assets of RFC(IL) were sold to Charles Green then Charles Green did in turn buy the ownership of those players and any development costs that may in future be awarded to them. I think it slightly confuses the matter that the Development Company has been dissolved and its business absorbed into TRFC/RIFC. However given that the asset as a subsidary company was bought I don’t think BDO have a claim on any of the Telfer money. What they possibly have though is more fuel for the fire of D&P did not get a fair value for the assets they did sell.
On the subject of coverage for cup ties. Is there any incentive for the state broadcaster to achieve ratings, if so then the choice of a well supported Glasgow team is obvious.
In England, Man United have been chosen for TV coverage when still in the comp something like 80 times in a row. Its just been announced that their tie against either Yeovil or Accrington Stanley will be live the first Sunday in January. However that 80+ run was when ITV had it for many years and they openly admitted that United were a draw viewing figures wise whoever they faced. Now it is with the BBC I’m not sure if that argument (or the argument for it happening in Scotland is applicable)
Hadn’t seen this.
Of brands and badges:
http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/12/7/7348045/steaua-bucharest-trademark
I’ve been wondering over the last few days exactly when the same club claims started. My recollection was that just about everybody agreed in the summer of 2012 that Sevco were a new club.
Did the ‘company that own the club’ nonsense appear overnight? Was there a particular event or statement that triggered it? Or has it been a much more insidious process?
Danish
This was also on Phil’s Twitter feed
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/steaua-bucharest-are-no-longer-steaua-bucharest-after-court-ruling-092555642.html
andygraham.66 says:
December 12, 2014 at 11:24 am
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While the Beeb don’t need audience numbers as proof to advertisers, in the same way ITV and other commercial stations do, they do like getting one over on ITV on audience share at particular moments. I don’t know whether that’s entirely rivalry or whether it is to help to prove that they are doing their job as a public broadcaster in providing content that a lot of the public want.
Of course given that the brand of football being played Govan way has driven away much of the live viewers it might not attract a big tv audience of bears these days either. The neutrals might just tune in to see if their is to be a giant killing (I know, I know – same division) but for the supposed romance of the cup surely Spartans hosting Berwick would be the choice with a possible giant killing thrown in there too.
andygraham.66 says:
December 12, 2014 at 11:24 am
In England, Man United have been chosen for TV coverage when still in the comp something like 80 times in a row.
=============================================================
And rightly so, I’d watch United a hundred times for the pleasure of seeing them dumped out once by Yeovil or Accrington Stanley or MK Dons š
What ?
Is that just me ?
Surely not ?
Am not sure why cancelling a Christmas Party is such a big thing – plenty of “companies” have cancelled parties in the past, even ones with no real money worries: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/8063848/Queen-cancels-Christmas-party.html
But I am also of the opinion this is a PR exercise rather than a cost cutter – they could easily have held the party in one of Ibrox’s own conference suites, the cost would have been a couple of grand for a buffet, DJ (no not that one) and some booze for full-time staff. They could even have a face painter for c.Ā£40 if memory serves.
So the cost saving is minimal, the fallout maximal, why do it? To be seen to be doing something? As a warning shot for anyone who wants improved pay for next year? To maybe get some waverers to quit for other jobs, thus saving redundo payments? All of the above?
The Beeb are perfectly right in screening the selected game in the next round. They owe it to their public, aftr all we are talking about every fan’s favourite second team here; apart from a few zoomers. As my team are knocked out I’ll certainly be cheering them on and why? History, a proud heritage, a rightful place awaiting in the Premiership, a bastion of sporting integrity; oh yes, ‘mon the Rovers.
Ah Bless !
“Rangers fan group launches alternative strip!”
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-fan-group-launches-alternative-strip-1-3632267
Click through to buy one and in big red letters you’ll see: “The shirts will be approximately 28 days from order until delivery.”
So the shirts will make a great gift for the mid January festivities.
Mike must be quaking in his boots at the threat to his income.
The RST shirts cost Ā£33 with “around Ā£10” to be used to buy shares.
I’m no retail expert but could there costs per shirt really be Ā£23 each or is someone making a tidy profit?
jockybhoy says:
December 12, 2014 at 12:35 pm
Am not sure why cancelling a Christmas Party is such a big thing ā plenty of ācompaniesā have cancelled parties in the past, even ones with no real money worries: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/8063848/Queen-cancels-Christmas-party.html
But I am also of the opinion this is a PR exercise rather than a cost cutter ā they could easily have held the party in one of Ibroxās own conference suites, the cost would have been a couple of grand for a buffet, DJ (no not that one) and some booze for full-time staff. They could even have a face painter for c.Ā£40 if memory serves.
So the cost saving is minimal, the fallout maximal, why do it? To be seen to be doing something? As a warning shot for anyone who wants improved pay for next year? To maybe get some waverers to quit for other jobs, thus saving redundo payments? All of the above?
—————
I’m sure somebody, possibly Phil, said that we could expect briefings against Ally McCoist to start after the result against Alloa. Cancelling Xmas and letting the press know is basically a way of saying ‘we can’t afford the cash for a good night out, but remember our manager is trousering Ā£15k a week’. It’s not that subtle a subtext. Particularly after McCoist said he had no intention of quitting and claimed he had the full support of the board.
James Doleman says:
December 12, 2014 at 1:06 pm
The RST shirts cost Ā£33 with āaround Ā£10ā³ to be used to buy shares.
Iām no retail expert but could there costs per shirt really be Ā£23 each or is someone making a tidy profit?
——————
Depends how they’re sourcing the Nike tops. The blue top they’re using is one of these I think:
http://www.prodirectsoccer.com/teamwear/mens-teamwear-football-team-kits.aspx?listName=mens-teamwear-football-team-kits&clr=Blue&brand=Nike
Presumably they could get them cheaper in bulk from either Nike or a wholesaler. The other costs will be the crest, packaging, posting and admin – which will include credit card handling/paypal fees.
ALLY HAS GONE
Breaking news Ally McCoist resigns
Sky News are say Ally has Resigned… Is That Good or Bad News ?
Llambias certainly doesn’t mess about, does he?
Iceberg dead ahead
Ally. I’m off!!
Thanks Smugas for your response and ianagain for your link. My interpretation of the latter is that loan renewals, which would have taken place by now, should have given rise to a tax charge under revised legislation. I’m not sure how the interest payments would work – presumably they should be returned to the sub-trust.
Of course, if HMRC was arguing that the loans were really salary or bonus, perhaps they won’t be pursuing individuals until such time as their final appeal fails.
Apologies for being slightly off-topic, but I thought I’d get in before things go completely radio-rental…
With Ally leaving can someone please tell me, at what point does someone have an influence on two football clubs.?
Who is making these decisions? The people have a right to know, surely?
BBC say McCoist has ‘offered’ his resignation. Bit different from resigned. Basically he’ll negotiate on pay-off IMO.
The timing is strange on this, only hours before an important game against a team rangers really need to beat to if they want to get a play off place.