About the The Scottish Football Monitor

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Lord Wobbly says: August 7, 2012 at 22:33 Just to give BowenBoys …

Comment on About the The Scottish Football Monitor by Zilch.

Lord Wobbly says:
August 7, 2012 at 22:33

Just to give BowenBoys and amurkypath a bit of support, since we moved over to this site, I read a good number of first time posters saying that they’d lurked on RTC for ages but didn’t feel confident enough to post. Shirley some of you have something that you want to discuss. We don’t bite (well not all of the time) and if you’ve read any of my posts you will already know that you don’t need to be Stuart Cosgrove or Mark Daly or RTC or Alex Thomson in order to make a point. Even Bomber was prepared to stand up and say his piece 😀

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Your Lordship

I am a new poster (one week old) and would like to offer something up for debate, if I may be so bold…. It a bit long though… 🙁

Sorry seems to be the hardest word…

I am a big believer in conflict resolution. Total victory, annihilation of your enemy, is seldom a route to a long term solution. An obvious example: 1919 – the victorious allies sought to completely cripple the defeated Germany as retribution for the horrors of the First World War. In doing so, they inadvertently sowed the seeds for the rise of Hitler and the associated horrors. Sure, you can argue the merits (or otherwise) of such a broad brush hypothesis.

South Africa points towards a more constructive process of conflict resolution. Some of the more enlightened minds of the various political leaderships realised that in order to achieve any sort of lasting peace, it was necessary to identify the sources of conflict, confront them and, through a process of dialogue with ‘the enemy’, hopefully remove them as sources of future conflict.

A key element of the South African experience was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. This enabled active participants in and victims of the conflict from all sides to explain their actions, reveal the truth about what actually happened (at least as perceived by themselves) and establish a common narrative that would enable the vast majority of political opinions to buy into the future of a new, democratic South Africa. The Rainbow Nation still suffers from many chronic problems, but the fact that open civil war was averted amidst such a massive political transition has to be applauded.

OK. So far in this post we have the rise of Hitler and the demise of apartheid. Bit melodramatic to reference to the Scottish Football quagmire? Sure. Of course. It is ridiculous. Mind you, to be this concerned about the state of a sport is probably not a good sign anyway, so what the hell. ;_)

Thanks to the pioneering work of RTC and other stalwarts of the previous blog and this successor, we are all now aware of the massive malfeasance that occurred at the establishment club here in Scotland. We know how many people associated with that organisation tried to avoid / evade tax on an industrial scale, we know how much tax was not paid and we are pretty damn sure that significant laws of both the land and the sport were wilfully broken in the pursuit of dishonest sporting glory.

The players, managers, directors, owners and associated officials (including those at the SFA) that took these illegal payments must by now (at the very latest) have become aware of their precarious position. What’s more, they also know that their position is by now common knowledge and the subject of serious investigation by the relevant authorities.

Each and every one of them should consider their position. The game is up. The whole house of cards is on the verge of coming crashing down upon their heads. Those who have benefitted directly from the cheating and lying and even just the protracted silence are going to be brought to book: named and further shamed. There must surely be no future in the game for those exposed as being most heavily involved in this corruption – only one step away from match fixing. Some of them ought to be fearing a jail term…

To those individuals I would say – you are teetering on the edge of the abyss. You may have a final chance to speak out and voluntarily admit your role in this affair before the process proceeds further and your role is exposed by default.

This is the time to state categorically and unequivocally: this is what I did, here are the contracts, this is what I was paid, here is how much tax I paid, this is the advice I received, this is who gave me that advice. (What else should such a statement include?) Surely it would be far better to be seen to do this voluntarily now rather than at a later date as a result of a courts summons?

Even at this late stage, I would suggest that there might be scope for redemption for those who are prepared to own up to their actions and tell the truth about what has really happened. (I imagine that there may be alternative views on this).

I would also suggest that the window of opportunity for redemption by voluntarily acknowledgement of past misdeeds is pretty tight.

Sympathy is probably going to be in very short supply for anyone found to be materially involved in this corruption who has failed to freely acknowledge their role or the seriousness of the wrongdoing.

It is time, past time most likely, to stand up and be counted as one of the honest men.

We all make mistakes. Most of us will probably be able to point to a time when we were badly advised or behaved in a manner that we subsequently came to regret. Society can and should be forgiving where there is some sense of remorse. Expressing that remorse, saying ‘Sorry’, is a necessary first step.

Zilch Also Commented

About the The Scottish Football Monitor
Distract and deflect. Distract and deflect. Distract and deflect.

It is a sure sign that there is trouble at t’mill when the trolls come out in force.

(-S)DM and his lackeys are doing their utmost to deflect and distract. It ain’t working here and you have to wonder how many non-Sevco fans are buying any of it? Jings, the more enlightened old-Rangers fans are tearing their hair out at the nonsense being spewed forth.

Meanwhile we have RTC and many other Bampots (hat off to all of you) laying out the whole sorry mess so clearly that a child could reach the only rational conclusion.

The Ibrokes mafia are definitely rattled. If only someone, anyone, from the MSM had the cojones to ask why that is?

Mibbe they know there is an event horizon about to be crossed and they are just biding their time? Doesn’t sound right somehow….

I don’t expect anything of worth from the laptop loyal from the fitba pages, but I am surprised (a bit anyway) that the business sections aren’t giving this a forensic shake-down.

Mibbe its the editors / owners toeing the old party line. Yup. That sounds more like it.

‘mon the Bampots.


About the The Scottish Football Monitor
Danish Pastry says:
August 7, 2012 at 14:09

Thornlyboy says:
August 7, 2012 at 15:02

DP and Thornlyboy

One of the revelations of the RTC and TSFM blogs has been the coming together of fans of pretty much all flavours. Rational discussion, conducted in a calm and generally fairly respectful manner (with the occasional bit of banter) – you guys have got it sussed.

Personally, I would be delighted if we could reach a situation where there was a team playing on the southside of Glasgow that did not carry forward all of the negative baggage. Unfortunately it is abundantly clear that the SevcoZombie is not that entity. I’m with you (DP) on this: it needs a completely new start. Whether the liquidation process can produce the space needed to achieve that? Fingers crossed for you.

In the meantime, I have developed a big soft spot for the SFL teams that stood up for sporting integrity. In my case, I think Raith Rovers are my new second team thanks to the actions of Turnbull Hutton. It might never be the same as a first love, but it could have merit?


About the The Scottish Football Monitor
manandboy says:
August 7, 2012 at 09:17

Dear Manandboy

You have just proved yourself a true gentleman.

It takes great courage to say sorry. You have that courage.

Manandboy I salute you!

Zilch

PS. If only the MSM hacks or the leaders and former leaders of the Ibrokes mafia had the cojones to apologise for their transgressions.

Sadly, the WATP mentality precludes that possibility. (It’s a superiority complex thing)

For me, it is this failure to show any sort of remorse for actions that are ‘second only to match fixing’, not ‘bogitry’ or any of their other pathetic excuses, that means they cannot start afresh and we must continue to press for the full application of the laws of the land and the laws of the sport.


Recent Comments by Zilch

To Comply or not to Comply ?
borussiabeefburgMay 17, 2018 at 10:38
At various points recently, it’s been suggested Andrew James Dickson will take the token rap for the notice of complaint issued over the 2011 UEFA licence.
Dickson has been involved with every set of directors who have had their feet under the Ibrox table, pre and post liquidation. He’s been a major collaborator with the SFA throughout that time and was even voted on to the bloated SFA Congress last season.
Only an opinion, but given Dickson will have undisclosed knowledge of who, in the governing body, helped with the cover up, I’d think there is little chance he will emerge from the situation as a loser.
He’s a key part of the whole Rangers liquidation/continuation story, and he has been proffered protection throughout by all the warring Ibrox factions. There is a reason for this.
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BB
This point has been mentioned several times in the past, but it has never been fully explained – at least I have not seen such an explanation. Can you say more?

What level of wizardry is Mr Dickson capable of that he manages to stay on the right side of so many factions all through this interminable debacle? We are surely talking about some serious Jedi-Master capabilities to have managed to come through all this with barely a mention, other than the slightly cryptic references on here that appear from time to time?

FWIW, I see the latest developments in much the same light as Iceman described earlier. The SFA were up to their eyeballs (actually, over their heads) trying to provide Rangers with unfair sporting advantage in order to keep them afloat and maintain their status as the Establishment team. This was the only social order they had the wit to imagine and the founding premise for all of their business plans.

The idea that the SFA and other bodies did not know that Rangers were in big trouble on tax is simply not credible.

The extraordinary lengths that they subsequently went to to cover up their tracks and to deflect attention away from this issue was not ignorance or naivety – it was guilt and desperation to avoid being held accountable for their actions.

In what significant way has this organisation changed between now and then?

Has there been some sort of overwhelming Road to Damascus seeing of the light?

Are we witnessing a new dawning of fair play and transparency from the office block at Hampden Park?

Yeah right.

It is odds on a further attempt to bury the real story in the long grass. Maybe they are hoping that some of the chancers that have been hanging around the marble stairs at Ibrox can be sacrificed and won’t spill the beans on what they know? RRM don’t do spilt beans dontcha know.

Maybe they hope that hanging out a couple of spivs or dodgy former directors will satisfy us all?

Who knows, they might even have it in for dodgy Dave King and some of the other miscreants currently wearing brogues and blazers? God only knows he is taking them for a complete ride and probably taking the current iteration off a cliff in the process. Would almost make sense to bump him off in order to save The Rangers.

But really, when it comes down to it, you have to think it is most likely just another attempt to maintain the stranglehold that the SFA has on the game, to avoid having their complete corruption exposed to the clear light of day, and to allow them to keep their snouts firmly in the trough.

Time will tell I suppose.

From what I can gather, the Res12 guys have never been interested in targeting Rangers. Their focus has only ever been on the corruption that eats the heart out of the administration of our game. This is the only game in town for those of us who want to see a level playing field.

Sure, I can get my kicks wallowing in the schadenfreude of seeing any form of Rangers careening from disaster to disaster. I would be lying if I said otherwise.

But what I really want is a level playing field that means we will never again be exposed to the cheating that has so very nearly destroyed professional football as a meaningful sport in this country.

Keep the focus firmly on the SFA and the other football authorities. Who knew about the dodgy tax situation and when? Who knowingly signed off on the European license despite the clear breach of rules? Yes the Rangers directors told porkies and breached good faith. But who at the SFA knew that but decided to go along with it?

Sine die anyone who was involved.


Is Regan a DIDDY?
Mrs Zilch and I have been members of the Scotland Travel club for years. A couple of decades by now. With the kids getting a bit older now, she was recently talking about getting them memberships too. It’s pretty cheap and they have enjoyed (sort of!) going to some recent games. (The wee man greetin’ his eyes out against Lithuania was a real lesson for him in what it means to be Scottish).

Going to the Scotland games has been a really nice bit of our relationship for all this time. It is part of who we are. It’s part of our identity. (weirdly)

When we go we usually meet up with cousins and uncles too. It’s a big family thing.

So our memberships are up for renewal now.

I am going home tonight to tell her I can’t bear to give the SFA a single penny.

I’m going to tell her that I can’t stand to have my kids looking up to a guy like Alex McLeish who has openly admitted he cheated both the tax authorities and the rest of Scottish football so that he could gain an unfair advantage on EVERY team in Scotland.

I’m going to have to tell my kids that their national team is now off limits because it is in the hands of corrupt people who are liars and cheats – that this is not how sport is meant to be run.

We always send the wee man to his football training wearing a Scotland top. I would prefer a Celtic top, but Mrs Zilch is worried about the sectarian side of Glasgow and wants to keep him safe. I guess we will do what so many others have done and get him a Barca top or some other team we have no real affiliation with. This is the state of Scottish football and Scotland in general.

I will be taking the wee man to play a 7-aside match on Saturday afternoon. The guys that train them and organise the team are totally brilliant. They are there multiple evenings during the week and on Saturdays too, teaching them how to play the game, and really drilling into them a sense of sportsmanship. I will take far more pleasure out of being there and being involved at that level than I will with any part of the professional game in this country.

The SFA are slowly strangling the life out of the game in this country. Hell mend them. If Scottish football only exists to support a Rangers ascendancy and the parasites that Ibrox spawned – well it can die a thousand deaths as far as I am concerned.

I should have done this a long time ago – I know. Somehow this is some sort of final straw for me.


Is Regan a DIDDY?
I seem to recall Alex McLeish was once manager of the Scottish national football team. I’m pretty sure that’s the case – right?

I was quite surprised (but only quite) when last night the BBC reported his reappointment to the role using footage of him wearing a Rangers scarf.

I guess they must have lost all the footage of him when he was previously the Scotland manager?

Yup. That must be it.

What other possible reason could they have for using that footage?

Couldn’t possibly be a GIRUY to anyone who has a passing interest in sporting integrity, payment of social taxes or concern that the SFA / Scottish Establishment has shown persistent bias towards one club at the expense of ALL others?

Shurely shum mishtake…


The Vice Closes
Once again, and with deep regret…

I strongly agree that there is no place for songs about the IRA, the UDA or any other source of armed conflict at a football match.

The question is how do we persuade people to move on from it?

If all you can do is tell Celtic fans that they are sectarian for supporting a political organisation then we are going to get nowhere.
 
It may seem like semantics to you, but it is at the very heart of people’s identity and political conscience.
 
It is essential that we have accuracy and balance in any solution to this.

You will not persuade Celtic fans to stop singing IRA songs by complaining they are sectarian – simply because those singing them do not believe that is accurate.

You might have better luck telling them to stop singing them because they are political and their reference to conflict is unwelcome at a sporting event.  That is accurate.

Of course, you then need to have balance. If the problem is politics or glorifying violence, then let’s properly target that.

So, for example, no wearing of poppies on football shirts on the pitch. The poppy started off as a symbol of remembrance for war dead (including members of my own family) but has been politically hijacked and is now used to glorify the British Armed Forces – a prime player in the conflict we are trying to move away from. In the catalogue of innocents killed in that conflict, there is plenty of scope to criticise the British Army too.

I also think we need to question the singing of Flower of Scotland at the national games. Don’t get me wrong – I love singing that song and belt it out with all the rest – but I am questioning myself on whether it is really appropriate now? Sending Edward home again involved a fair amount of bloodshed and death and in these troubled times, how much do we need to drag up the atavistic past?

If we want to find a solution to this problem, we have to do more than just complain about it. We need to find real solutions that are fair and recognise the legitimacy of different political views.

As in any conflict resolution situation, you need to make steps towards those you have previously fought to find peace. Dealing in absolutes gets us nowhere.

As I said previously, I think there are plenty of people here that want to see this problem go. To do so we have to move out of our own comfort zones and do a bit of digging into the nature of the conflict and of our own bias and prejudices.

The alternative is we carry on as previously. The football authorities and the SMSM  seem perfectly content to do this. With some openness and goodwill, I think we could do better.


The Vice Closes
Highlander

We agree on a lot of stuff here.

I don’t deny that our away fans are regularly singing IRA songs. They do. I want them to stop. I can’t be any clearer than that.

I disagree that this is sectarian. Offensive to some, undoubtedly.

I could say similar things about Flower of Scotland (massively anti-English) and God Save the Queen (equally anti-Scottish) – I can live with these songs as I know they are important to people and they have a right to express themselves.

I can’t accept the sectarianism of the Billy Boys. Nor would I accept racist or homophobic chanting.

Moving on I agree with you that strict liability is not going to happen – it leaves all of our clubs at the mercy of fans.

I am suggesting an alternative.

If our fans or Rangers fans are behaving in a way that is unacceptable, i.e. is in breach of the terms and conditions of entry, then evict them from the ground.

If that is not possible (and crowd control is not to be understimated – probably why Police Scotland are not wading in) then how about this?

Persistent breach of the terms and conditions of entry to a ground by a visiting support results in a home club being allowed to refuse entry (sale of tickets) to away fans.

If you don’t want to hear the war songs or the sectarian songs at your ground – campaign with your club to ban the visiting supports.

Not sure if this is within the rules of the game or not? However it would be one way to make an impact on the issue. It could be a way for the SFA / SPFL to make a difference if a rule change is needed.

In my original post I finished with the point that I will make again now.

Given the financial value of Rangers and (following our conversation) Celtic fans coming to grounds around the country, is there any appetite amongst the other clubs to make such a stand?

There is not much point complaining about both cheeks etc if the other clubs are not willing to act in their own patch.

I appreciate you not wanting to go on with this – I am also pretty uncomfortable – no offense will be taken either way. I just think we need to fully understand the nature of the problem and where our clubs and the association really are on it.


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