About the The Scottish Football Monitor

ByTrisidium

About the The Scottish Football Monitor

The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).

Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.

The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.

The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.

Scottish Football Monitor asks contributors to remember only a few things;

1. The site is not the domain of any one club and is open to fans of all clubs.

2. Absolutely no discussion with regard to religion should take place.

3. Posters should refrain from using foul or abusive language.

Welcome to The Scottish Football Monitor

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,167 Comments so far

Charlie BrownPosted on12:19 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Clubs could agree to adopt a voluntary quota on the number of home-produced or national team eligible players that must be included ie a gentlemans agreement which wouldn’t be mandatory or break any EU employment laws but whether the chosen amount in 6+5, 7+4 or 8+3 would serve to achieve the same objectives.

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Carl31Posted on12:23 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Topslice all European game related income from any club that is involved in Europe, and divide it up between all Scottish clubs to be ringfenced and spent only on youth development/homegrown talent.

Link each clubs share of the gate receipts from the Scottish Cup ties to the number of young Scottish players fielded during the games concerned.

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Pars FanPosted on12:26 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Good afternoon.

I’d just like to point out that recent posts by ‘Pars Fan’ re: Penn State, etc. have not been made by me.

I shall be changing my nom-de-plume to ‘Original Pars Fan’.

Thank you.

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youtawknabootPosted on12:26 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Essex beancounter says:
August 8, 2012 at 23:34..
…………………………………
For that comment alone E b …I am flattered ! 😉

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Gym TrainerPosted on12:28 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:19

>>Clubs could agree to adopt a voluntary quota on the number of home-produced or national team eligible players that must be included ie a gentlemans agreement

Gentlemen’s agreement requires that there be gentlemen involved. They’re thin on the ground.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:32 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:15
0 0 Rate This
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:00

=======================

You have answered your own post.

People are entitled to ply their trade throughout Europe, to bring in restrictive rules like you suggest would simply not be compliant with European law. There are rules regarding players coming in from outwith the EU but that is another matter entirely.

——————————————

the rule would need to be worded carefully, for example, you can’t say “must have no more than 3 non scottish players”

but you could say

Max squad size of players = 22 players
squad must contain at least 18 players who were developed through the youth system of any domestic club (i.e. having played for 3 years in scotland prior to their 21st birthday)

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Danish PastryPosted on12:35 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:00
————

Great need to discuss fair play in regard to other issues I can see. We really need a specific blog, or one of these articles to be inserted as a blog, so that all relevent responses suit the subject. You can post responses on the threads of two blog articles.

Everything is being posted on ‘About The SFM’ right now which means it’s becoming a bit unfocused. Some really fine posts about the RTC are being drowned. Other fine posts about league reconstruction, distribution of gate money, and so on, are being ignored, perhaps because some think they are off topic?

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tic6709Posted on12:53 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Before Mo Farah competed in the Olympics on Sat night he said that if he won
he would wear a Gold Sash around the Olympic Village to honour his achievment.
Having done so he will now donate the Sash to the Olympic museum,
it will be displayed as “The Sash Mo Farah Wore”.

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SparTicketusPosted on1:08 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Philio Jose Farmer 10.51

Are you mad or just an OF fan trolling ? Your idea would redistribute money FROM St Johnston, Motherwell etc TO Celtic and Rangers

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SparTicketusPosted on1:08 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Philip Jose Farmer 10.51

Are you mad or just an OF fan trolling ? Your idea would redistribute money FROM St Johnston, Motherwell etc TO Celtic and Rangers

View Comment

Ordinary FanPosted on1:11 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Not long ago Walter Smith thought he would stroll into Ibrox and oust Green. He knew that he could manipulate the hordes and his lap dog journalists easily and was expecting to hailed the Saviour. Whatever Green said to him sent Smith running like a scalded cat, since then Smith has kept his distance. Green has something on Smith that has kept Smith quiet.

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youtawknabootPosted on1:19 pm - Aug 9, 2012


longtimelurker says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:04

A damning critique of the man who is the public face of the hoons.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11614818&t=8707052
…………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Is that Chris Graham the shifty dodgey lookin cat who appeared on the Scotland Tonight panels occaissionally with thee Neil Patey, financial expert/tipster/guru/soothsayer ..?
I cant keep up..& tend to get the names confused with the constantly morphing & various MSM slugs..?

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Philip José FarmerPosted on1:23 pm - Aug 9, 2012


longtimelurker says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:04

=====================

Is he really a Rangers suporter, if so he really is not helping the club, or fans with stuff like that.

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CraigPosted on1:24 pm - Aug 9, 2012


The opportunity for league reconstruction this season was voted down because of the conditionality behind it to let Rangers in. I really hope it does get deleivered asap, a bigger SPL and play-offs must surely be the way forward.

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Dark BluePosted on1:24 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown and ghirl1888 thank you for replying to my posts. All
I am trying to do is explore the fantastic opportunities that have opened up with the realisation of our power together. Application of the rules without fear or favouris definitely the
most important thing as you say

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layman00Posted on1:27 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Sarah Leyden on August 9, 2012 at 11:47

I think the whole sectarian thing should be avoided because there is no winner in that argument. I hate hearing any sectarian chanting at Celtic Park but it doesn’t come from just Celtic and Rangers fans. I think we should all just agree that there is no place in Scottish football for sectarianism, bigotry, racism or discrimination of any form.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on1:27 pm - Aug 9, 2012


SparTicketus says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:08

=====================

How am I mad or trolling. People want to change the system from the home team keeping all of the gate receipts. I have no issue with that, in fact I have agreed.

The fairest system would be for teams to sell tickets to their own fans, and keep the proceeds, with the expenses split on a pro rata basis.

Can you tell me which part you consider either mad, or trolling. If you could do it without being offensive that would be better.

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john clarkePosted on1:27 pm - Aug 9, 2012


I’m trying to be as detached as I possibly can be, and taking nothing for granted.

But, setting aside all other questions that arise, there is little doubt that FOR THE SFA, the club currently operating under the name of ‘TheRangers’ is one and the same as RFC(IA).

The evidence for this is
a) that they treated ‘TheRangers”s application for membership of the SFA as an application for continuation of membership rather than as an application from a brand new club. They did this as being the only way under the rules to allow membership to be granted

b) for the sake of appearances, they therefore had to insist that the relatively minor penalties of a (generously modified ) transfer embargo and a piddling little fine had to be ‘agreed'(!) by the new club .

In this way, the SFA thought they could salvage something first from the wreckage of their first plan to get RFC(IA) straight back into the SPL, and then from the shambles of their secondary ,equally thwarted, plan to get them into the SFL First Division. They failed dismally.

They then tried to claim the moral high ground by implying that it was fair do’s for RFC(IA)/The Rangers to be in Div 3, while the falsely humble-while-lying-through-their -teeth spokesmen for the schizoid club ( ‘The three faces of Eve’- another great movie, by the way) grimly said that was what they, and their fans, really wanted.

And, meanwhile, the SFA would draw lines, square the feckin circle, move on going forward, and drive the cause of ‘league re-construction’ to get that club back into the big league next season, come hell or high water: aided and abetted by line-drawing, incestuously square hacks and failed politicians.

When( and there really can be no doubt that it is ‘when’ and not ‘if’) the Independent Commission ( is it yet in business? Do we know it’s composition, expected term?) establishes the FACT of x number of payments made to y number of employees over z number of seasons (all undisclosed to the SFA), there will be absolutely no way that the SFA could then decide that, after all, ‘The Rangers’ are NOT RFC(IA).

For such offences ,there can only be one penalty: Expulsion sine die of the club that the SFA were so determined to save , that is, ‘The Rangers’ which they have so blatantly and publicly deemed to be identical to RFC(IA).

That is, CG’s club, giant slayers, albeit with a different registration, will have to carry the can.

Now ,if the SFA had listened to us,( or at least to me) they would have fairly and impartially implemented the rules ( as was their practice in relation to other clubs) and deemed Sevco/The Rangers a brand new club.
They would NOT have granted membership until the club was able ( perhaps after a full three years) to meet the ‘new applicant’ criteria.
( Regrettebly, perhaps, the penalties attaching to the old, different club, could not legally have been properly applied. There’s always a downside!).

But at least there would have been some consistency, morality and legitimacy in the SFA’s stance if they had followed that line.

Now, however , having tried every bent trick in the book to save that schizoid club they have instead made their execution an absolutely necessary consequence, when the guilty verdict comes in.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on1:30 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:32

==========================

Word it however you want, it was tried before and failed.

It is a restriction of trade. EU citizens are entitled to ply their trade in the EU.

Woud you have a rule which stated that in any hospital at least 75% of the doctors must have completed their medical training in a British University.

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BarneyPosted on1:32 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Sarah Leyden says:

_____________________________________________________________________________

I agree wholehertedly with this. Visiting Celtic Park and Ibrox are not pleasant experiences for visiting fans especially with younger children. It is clear to me that at the Himlayan height of the club’s rivalry and the peak of Champions League aspirations both clubs actually wanted to discourage visiting fans to sell more season tickets to home fans. It was either a policy of making vistors feel unwelcome or a management class so divorced from the realities of watching matches as a fan, that they simply did not understand that the conditions are primitive, the stewarding can be very upsetting and the sectarian abuse unacceptable in modern Scotland. Celtic provide restricted views too, which is not the case at Ibrox, they provide a very oblique view. Anyone who thinks ‘diddy’ clubs go there in awe to ‘soak up the atmosphere’ is deluded, they go their to watch their team and hope that they win. They often return home disappointed and in some cases upset by their experience. If Celtic are the virtuous club they aspire to be – they should want to change this on behalf of their visitors
===========
Totally agree. I’m a Celtic supporter but have sat in the visiting end supporters end at Celtic Par, on a few occasions. The view is, as you say, rank rotten and Celtic should either sell these tickets at a discounted price or make some structural changes, if possible, to rectify the situation. Generally speaking, although I believe things are improving, Celtic’s customer service ( for want of a better expression) is still a long way short of what it should be, whether you are a home or visiting supporter.

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MoominsPosted on1:35 pm - Aug 9, 2012


MidCalderan says:

August 9, 2012 at 10:32

————

The SFL rules themselves regarding dula interests specifically state that

““club” means a football club in membership or associate membership of
the League and any football club in membership of the F.A. Premier League,
The Football League, The Scottish Premier League or the Irish Premier
League.”

Its not allowed without permission from the SFL board. So in other words, when it comes to Sevco, it’ll be allowed – just as it has been with Rangers in the past.

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Scotland BehavePosted on1:37 pm - Aug 9, 2012


john clarke says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:27
1 0 i
==========================
So, basically, by their own inaction, procrastination, incompetence and rule bending/breaking they painted themselves in a corner and have no option but to expel or suspend the schizoid club. They will have in consequence, be made to come to the decision they should have made back in March/April.

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scottyjimboPosted on1:38 pm - Aug 9, 2012


longtimelurker says:
August 9, 2012 at 11:15

“ …… There’s apparently a £10m shortfall from what was paid in to the EBT and what was paid out. Obviously that money might still be in the EBT. ….. “

Thanks for the info LTL. Did the figures come from RFC(IA) accounts or from the EBT trustees? For a company up to its ears in financial problems, it sounds very strange that it would “leave” 10 million “accessible” when a request to the trustees for a loan might move it on. Sounds pretty dodgy to me. One would have thought that some of the characters that are at/been at RFC(IA) recently might have come up with a way of “releasing” it.

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ChrisPosted on1:38 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Dark Blue,

Can you explain how liming the attendances helps anyone? I geuninely want to know.

Is it because the club which is limited to 20k get less money & shortening the income gap?

If so, you’re clearly mental. That’s not drastic surgery, it’s just drastic.

The best way to ensure the game is more competitive is to have more Scots youngsters comign through, so many so in fact that there’s enough to form the backbone of several top flight clubs in Scotland.

One way to do that is to levy a youth development fee on stadia entry prices, to divert some of the European income clubs get towards youth development, building more pitches, following the tried & tested continental models (academies, scholarships) and getting rid of any coaches who look for strength and height first without giving technique a thought.

We will never have anything even approaching a ‘better’ game in Scotland in less than a generation’s time. It’s not possible because of the severe lack of Scottish talent meaning the clubs who can afford to supplement the dearth of homegrown talent with foreign players are the ones who’ll win everything (and those clubs are bolstered by the largest fanbases)

Since there’s precisely zero chance of bigger stadia for most clubs, as well as zero chance of filing those imaginry bigger stadia (although filling what they have would be a good step) but ultimately there will always be an income disparity between the better and lesser supported clubs, more so when Euro revenue is taken into account.

Only if the local talent pool is big enough and good enough that there’s a realistic chance of providing a challenge to firstly foreign talent (below the megabucks level but above the common or garden Scots player level) and secondly the big clubs who would hoover up the best of the bunch.

Ferguson did it with Aberdeen. It can be done.

But it will take an entire generation to do so. At least.

France did it. Spain did it. The Dutch have been doing it for decades.

Invest in the facilities, invest in the coaching side, get RID of the old school (cheerio Watty, Craig Brown, Archie Knox and all the others who wouldn’t know how to coach a passing game if their lives depended on it) and value skill above everything else.

Then we might have a chance,

But stopping people from spending their money on the game? That’s as crazy an idea as I’ve ever heard. There is no such thing as a quick fix that actually fixes, you can either address the cause of the problem once and properly, or you can spend a lifetime trying & failing to address the effects.

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johnhenrypushiePosted on1:40 pm - Aug 9, 2012


I recall some debate on this blog regarding what to do with stripped titles and medals following years of financial doping….it the appears that the International Olympic Association shares no such uncertainty.

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/story/2012/08/09/olympics-cyclist-tyler-hamilton-doping.html

Sláinte.

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geoffPosted on1:44 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Regarding moderated posts – wouldn’t it be possible to bounce back to the poster’s e-mail why their previous post was sent to mod-queue?
This would at least help prevent ‘test’ posts and posts that mistakenly include a banned word:
e.g. i, like h?ndreds of others…otherwise, it’s a bit like being sent to gaol without having been told exactly what you did wrong.

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Ian58Posted on1:53 pm - Aug 9, 2012


John Clarke @ 13:2
Perhaps a question to the SFA concerning participation in their flagship competition may be revealing.

I wonder what their official position is on the status of the newest club in the SFL is?
Do them see this as also being their first year in the Scottish Cup?

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SchneebPosted on1:54 pm - Aug 9, 2012


scottyjimbo says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:38

longtimelurker says:
August 9, 2012 at 11:15

“ …… There’s apparently a £10m shortfall from what was paid in to the EBT and what was paid out. Obviously that money might still be in the EBT. ….. “

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I thought RTC had tweeted that the EBT money was all gone ?

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Charlie BrownPosted on1:56 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:27
0 0 Rate This
SparTicketus says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:08

=====================

How am I mad or trolling. People want to change the system from the home team keeping all of the gate receipts. I have no issue with that, in fact I have agreed.

The fairest system would be for teams to sell tickets to their own fans, and keep the proceeds, with the expenses split on a pro rata basis.

Can you tell me which part you consider either mad, or trolling. If you could do it without being offensive that would be better.
==========================================================================
Philip (Hugh?) it depends if you consider the goal of revenue sharing to be “fairness” (for whom?) or whether it is to share or redistribute revenue throughout the league.

Your suggestions would of course redistribute revenue and do it in such a way that would provide even more money to the clubs who already sell the most tickets. We could shortcut that completely and just pool all league revenues and apportion it pro-rata to each club on the basis of home attendances / total attendances ….. that would be fair right?

The intended goal of most revenue sharing systems is to help maintain competitiveness and reduce the income disparity between the richest teams with a big market and the poorer teams with a smaller market. Of course the richest sports clubs still win the majority of the time even in sports that have revenue sharing but i doubt there is any sport or league anywhere that has become as cravenly uncompetitive as the SPL punch & judy show with only 2 title winners in almost 30 years.

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Just because you’re paranoid……Posted on1:56 pm - Aug 9, 2012


John clarke says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:27

I do hope you’re right

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longtimelurkerPosted on1:56 pm - Aug 9, 2012


”If you don’t need to know, you don’t get to hear.” says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:19
1 0 Rate This
longtimelurker says:

_____________________________________________________________________

Yip, one and the same guy.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:23
2 0 Rate This
longtimelurker says:
August 9, 2012 at 12:04

=====================

Is he really a Rangers suporter, if so he really is not helping the club, or fans with stuff like that.

*************************************************************************************************************************

He’s most definitely a supporter of the former club but it really is a moot point as to whether he is helping his fellow traveller or not. Some might say that he is helping them enormously.

This is the guy who posted on his blog, a list and addresses of the clubs enemies including pubs and other establishments and he helpfully posted the addresses of some of those named.

That blog was subsequently removed from his site but I’m sure someone somewhere has a screen grab of it.

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Dark BluePosted on1:58 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Chris, Thank you for your post. If Celtic or Rangers fans from Aberdeen Edinburgh Dundee and elsewhere
supported their local teams instead of glory hunting we might have a league worth watching. My post
was intended to be provocative drastic measures are required

View Comment

jw hardinPosted on2:01 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Well said JC. An insightful analysis.

This premature discussion on possible league reconstruction seems insignificant when compared to the enormity and ramifications of the current RFC(IA) situation.

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Charlie BrownPosted on2:02 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Ordinary Fan says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:11
18 0 Rate This
Not long ago Walter Smith thought he would stroll into Ibrox and oust Green. He knew that he could manipulate the hordes and his lap dog journalists easily and was expecting to hailed the Saviour. Whatever Green said to him sent Smith running like a scalded cat, since then Smith has kept his distance. Green has something on Smith that has kept Smith quiet.
============================================================================

Charles Green presumably has access to the books (or a copy) and will know or be able to reveal precisely what went on at Ibrox during the EBT years. Of course he himself is blameless for any of that and at some point he may wish to hold up his hands and say “I am clean of all this wrongdoing – it was the guys in here before me.” and of course he is 100% correct. he is probably able to threaten the Old Rangers people with leaking out information they would all rather was kept buried.

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longtimelurkerPosted on2:03 pm - Aug 9, 2012


scottyjimbo says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:38
0 0 Rate This
longtimelurker says:
August 9, 2012 at 11:15

“ …… There’s apparently a £10m shortfall from what was paid in to the EBT and what was paid out. Obviously that money might still be in the EBT. ….. “

Thanks for the info LTL. Did the figures come from RFC(IA) accounts or from the EBT trustees? For a company up to its ears in financial problems, it sounds very strange that it would “leave” 10 million “accessible” when a request to the trustees for a loan might move it on. Sounds pretty dodgy to me. One would have thought that some of the characters that are at/been at RFC(IA) recently might have come up with a way of “releasing” it.

_____________________________________________________________________

Think if you count up the EBT contributions re the rangers accounts (from memory £49m) and reference Mark Daly’s figure then that’s where the £10million comes from.

Someone (CE) I think re-posted the BBC documentary web page the other day the EBT recipients and all of the figures relating to are on that page.

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Smell the glovePosted on2:05 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Unless they are acknowledged as and treated as a brand new club with a brand new name and no history, The Rangers are a phoenix club. What BDO make of it all will be interesting.

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Dark BluePosted on2:05 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Hi Chris thanks for your post.my reply was moderated
for use of the phrase glory hvnting. Basically what i meant
to say was if Celtic or Rangers fans would support their local teams
outwith Glasgow then we would have a competitive league worth watching

View Comment

Eastern ex-patPosted on2:07 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 14:02
___________________

Could indeed be related to McCoist being “supportive” of late and also form part of the never to be revealed conversation he had with takeover tycoon John Brown.

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on2:16 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Post waiting in moderation about a tweet from RTC and SFA Licensed agents and what light they can shed on dual registrations and EBT’s– especially in light of the recent commenst from David Murray.

Also some links to archive interviews with Blair Morgan

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fara1968Posted on2:18 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Dark Blue on August 9, 2012 at 14:05
 0 0 Rate This
Hi Chris thanks for your post.my reply was moderated
for use of the phrase glory hvnting. Basically what i meant
to say was if Celtic or Rangers fans would support their local teams
outwith Glasgow then we would have a competitive league worth watching

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Maybe football in Ireland would see an upsurge in attendances too if that happened.

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Charlie BrownPosted on2:19 pm - Aug 9, 2012


BRTH – some weird things have been happening with ‘your post is awaiting moderation’ today. Probably some wordpress setting needing adjusted by TSFM?

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ChrisPosted on2:25 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Thanks Dark Blue – I hoped you were a bit tongue in cheek 🙂

We have no chance whilst thugs coach young thug wannabes. Get rid of the cause, give the next generation a chance by providing facilities and the envrionment to flourish, and join the 21st century game.

View Comment

essexbeancounterPosted on2:26 pm - Aug 9, 2012


scottyjimbo says:
August 9, 2012 at 10:43
14 0 i Rate This

OLE MUNGO BHOY says:
August 9, 2012 at 00:24

Back to the old adage “Follow the money”. I presume that EBT schemes could have been implemented through an upfront London financial institution, so why use a Jersey based one? Simply because it inserted a layer or anonymity into any financial transactions, precautions much loved by these paragons of virtue, the MBB’s of this world. Isn’t it peculiar that such a fine, moral upstanding Scottish institution, whose MD at the time insists that everything was perfectly legal and above board, apparently thought that it required such an arrangement? (my edit)
============================================================================

The main “raison d’etre” of the States of Jersey and its “financial vehicles”, is that being a tax haven, or more accurately a secrecy jurisdiction, allows mainland based companies, like MIH, to set up covert and secretive trusts, shielded by Jersey law, which cannot be forced to disclose information, just as under the Swiss banking laws of confidentiality.

Murray, and his “professional” advisors, knew exactly what they wanted to do from day one.

The fact that they could do so is aided and abetted by the UK Government, and in particular, the City of London.

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broganrogantrevinoandhoganPosted on2:27 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown

didn’t know that– posted on CQN as well

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=10059&cpage=31#comment-1522262

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easyJamboPosted on2:30 pm - Aug 9, 2012


longtimelurker says: August 9, 2012 at 11:15
==================
Rangers EBT contributions from their accounts amounted to £48.809M. The beneficiary information supplied by Mark Daly amounted to £44.497M.

RTC has previously indicated that four other players may have received EBTs where no figure has been mentioned to date (Averladze, Hughes, McGregor and McCormack). There may also be others that contibuted to the £4.312M discrepancy.

Some beneficiaries may also not have asked for any “loans” from their EBTs to date, or even less likely paid some loans back to the trust, so the exact figure can’t be established.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on2:34 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:56
0 0 i Rate This

Philip (Hugh?) it depends if you consider the goal of revenue sharing to be “fairness” (for whom?) or whether it is to share or redistribute revenue throughout the league.

===========================

Football is, above all else nowadays a business. What you are suggesting is taking money from the customers of one business and giving it to another business. This is not the solution.

The solution is to maximise the sales of the failing business and to minimise it’s expenditure. Anything else is simply bolstering a failing entity. If a football club is not viable then it is not viable. If people do not want to support it and it fails then it fails. There are others willing to take it’s place. I am sure most SFL clubs would be willing to chance their arm in the SPL should any of the existing clubs go out of business.

Bottom line, if a football club is failing financially it is because it is spending too much money and / or people don’t care enough to go along and watch them or to buy their merchandise.

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tic6709Posted on2:41 pm - Aug 9, 2012


I think focusing on geography is a nonsense,people from here there and everywhere should support the team nearest to you,bollocks. People have had to move location for many reasons,should they stop supporting the team they have followed their whole life just because there is another team closer to their new home?.I dont think so. I am all for going to a new ground when you cant get to your own,but never just because it’s the closest to you.

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Charlie BrownPosted on2:42 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 14:34
0 0 Rate This
Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:56
0 0 i Rate This

Philip (Hugh?) it depends if you consider the goal of revenue sharing to be “fairness” (for whom?) or whether it is to share or redistribute revenue throughout the league.

===========================

Football is, above all else nowadays a business. What you are suggesting is taking money from the customers of one business and giving it to another business. This is not the solution.

The solution is to maximise the sales of the failing business and to minimise it’s expenditure. Anything else is simply bolstering a failing entity. If a football club is not viable then it is not viable. If people do not want to support it and it fails then it fails. There are others willing to take it’s place. I am sure most SFL clubs would be willing to chance their arm in the SPL should any of the existing clubs go out of business.

Bottom line, if a football club is failing financially it is because it is spending too much money and / or people don’t care enough to go along and watch them or to buy their merchandise.
========================================================================

So why did all Scottish clubs share gate receipts from 1890 until 1981 ? Was it any less of a business in those 91 years than now?
For 9 years short of a century they took money from the customers of the home clubs and shared it with the away clubs indeed they still do this in cup competitions. The Rangers Football Club supporters just the other evening contributed approx £200K into the coffers of East Fife Football Club.
Your proposed and implemented version of Thatcherism has failed Scottish Football since co-incedently the Iron Lady’s term in office.
Football was in a far more robust financial health than it has been in the last 20+ years when the number of insolvency failures in Scottish football has simply exploded and we now have the single biggest casualty yet.

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Dark BluePosted on2:49 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Aye cheers Chris, I completely agree with you. The game in Scotland is very robust
physical (and athletic) however ball skills and team work seem to be less a part of the modern
game. Where we get the coaches from is the big question.

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Dark BluePosted on2:59 pm - Aug 9, 2012


One of my abiding memories was seeing Celtics Lisbon Lions slaughtering
my team 8-1(The Celtic fans cheered Dundees consolation goal) Just a few
years later I had the privilege of watching wee Jinky coaching youngsters
in my local park. Perhaps todays stars could take some time to put something
back in the game

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twopanda bearsPosted on3:01 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Ashley sells strips for teams up and down the country without taking a stake in a particular club. Why would he risk a couple of mill to buy into CG & co? Last I understood JJB were a minor creditor with a broken contract post insolvency. Why would a businessman risk a million for no apparent gain – surely not to receive the praise and accolades of sally?

If the MSM story was true no doubt they`d point out sevconians negotiating rights / power on a future shirt deals has now plummeted to nigh zero if Ashley has a club share of 10%. That could be expensive.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on3:03 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 14:42
======================

Nice collection of specious arguments.

The fall of the biggest club was due to tax fraud and overspending, nothing whatsoever to do with how gates were split.

With regard whether football is more of a business than it was over 30 years ago, of course it is, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. The whole economic climate has changed, the support are much more mobile, and football has much more competition for it’s customers.

Bolstering failing business who cannot muster enough customers is not the solution.

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bad capt madmanPosted on3:04 pm - Aug 9, 2012


john clarke says

Well reasoned John,

Of course there are other parties that insist that Sevco are the old RFC, i.e. the fans (most of the vocal ones anyway), and the MSM apologists.

It will be interesting to see them try to deconstruct their recent arguments when the time comes.
(Traynor – “i said all along that the newco was a fraud and unsustainable, and will do untold damage to Scottish football”
Chic – ” i have never defended SDM, and pushed him all the way to come clean with Rangers fans”
Keevins – “as someone with a vast knowledge of football rules and financial regulations i warned every caller to try to be objective and to try to seek out the information that was available on the internet, such as the RTC blog, that questioned the outrageous spin that emanated from Ibrox”)

The position of the present power brokers on the SFA when the time comes should of course be untenable. Will this herald the raft of changes required to make the sport more tranparent? Lets he so.

As my old granny said, well, they made their bed they’ll have to lie in it.

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Charlie BrownPosted on3:17 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Philip José Farmer says:
August 9, 2012 at 15:03

Philip attendances have fallen across the board in Scottish football – apart from Ibrox & Parkhead that currently enjoy historically high attendance levels.

Why is that?

Answer: because the economic changes made 30 years ago ie abandoning gate-sharing had the negative effect of removing one of the pillars of maintaining competitiveness between the 2 richest clubs and the rest.

What has happened was entirely predictable in that the 2 biggest clubs have kept all the money to themselves and dwarfed the others clubs thus effectively killing the competition.

The businesses are failing and not enough people are attending BECAUSE we have spent the last 30 years making our football uncompetitive via stupid ideas like stopping gate-sharing, skewed financial distribution and 9-1 and 11-1 voting systems. All these failed changes need to be reversed as their consequences were bad and sadly predictable – the rich would get richer and the poor poorer.

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CrazyHorsePosted on3:18 pm - Aug 9, 2012


I detect a certain amount of restlessness in the air amongst some of us internet bampots regards ‘The Rangers FC’ being no more than a polished turd, still backed to the hilt by the massed ranks of deniers and deflectors various. Fear not.

Last October on a trip to the Highlands I was marooned with a Bluenose, a very amiable guy. News filtered through that Celtic were 3-0 down at Killie, my companion started waxing lyrical about the mighty Gers, happy as a sandboy. I was outwardly smiling but inwardly gutted, a dark moment indeed. Then lo and behold 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, Bouncy Bear’s mood blackened and I just happened to mention Neil Lennon in passing. Wow just wow, he went apoplectic. Pure, unadulterated hatred. What I would have given then for a Celtic winner! I told him there would be big trouble ahead for the then RFC, ‘no feckin way’ was his default retort.

10 months on we have heard ‘no feckin way’ or similar reeled out by apologists and ‘experts’ at every turn; administration, liquidation, out of Europe, out of the SPL, denied SFL 1. What’s not to like? Sevcongers are in SFL 3 and we still have the Big Tax ruling and dual contract investigation to come, Ticketus, BDO, Lord Hodge, Rapid Vienna, Craig Whyte, stadium ownership etc, etc. Like fine Claret this story will just get better and better with the passage of time.

Those who apologise, deny, deflect and conspire will soon be confronted by people/bodies who really don’t give a toss about RFC oldco or newco. Once the scale of what has gone is revealed there will be no hiding places. So be patient my amigos, the truth will out but it may take a while yet.

PS Can anyone get their mitts on Nimmo Smith report?

PPS Loved RTC’s Gavin Rae piece. More please, the crappier the player the better. Mindboggling sums of money.

Keep on keeping on!

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renfrewdavePosted on3:39 pm - Aug 9, 2012


twopanda bears says:
August 9, 2012 at 15:01
0 0 i
Rate This

Ashley sells strips for teams up and down the country without taking a stake in a particular club. Why would he risk a couple of mill to buy into CG & co? Last I understood JJB were a minor creditor with a broken contract post insolvency. Why would a businessman risk a million for no apparent gain – surely not to receive the praise and accolades of sally?

If the MSM story was true no doubt they`d point out sevconians negotiating rights / power on a future shirt deals has now plummeted to nigh zero if Ashley has a club share of 10%. That could be expensive.
—————–
i guess ashley has seen what happens to people who work with RFC(IL) and thinks that sevco could be simialry hard in getting money out of. perhaps his “share” is to ensure that he has a seat on the board and can see another event happening and either prevent it or limit the dmage to his company.
failing that sevco cant build any confidence with any suppliers and are having to hawk themselves around giving near enough everthing they have to offer.
or that the threatened boycott by rangers fans for the green empire has scared him into asking for something in return for his money.

though i supect that any money paid into sevco will be held back till enough shirts are sold to release it. i dont think we will have a david murray /jjb style anouncement of 18mill up front and so much every year. even when the figures released didnt match and he wouldnt explain why.

but at least we can see how sevco are going to pay the wages of all those spl players in the 3rd div

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ChrisPosted on3:40 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Gate sharing is considered a bad idea by some, as it ‘props up’ poor clubs.
OK, when all the ‘poor’ clubs go bust, who forms the league for the four
or five (?) ‘rich’ clubs to play in?

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FinlochPosted on3:45 pm - Aug 9, 2012


John Clarke 13 21

As per RTC blog post yesterday – well said and good logic – but we’re not dealing with logical entities here.

All along I feel we have made one wee recurring error in blaming the mouthpieces aka Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir for the endemic corruption.

They’re the easiest targets but in reality are just well paid flunkies who do what they’re told

To really get clean governance and leadership (and the real change we need to our structures) we need our diddy, and our not so diddy clubs to take up the issues with their respective SFA, SFL, SPL boards.
And that includes all senior teams from Celtic at the top to the likes of New Gretna in the East Of Scotland Premier League.

That means getting people, good people like Turnbull stripped and ready for action and fighting the good fight against years and years of inbuilt “ways of thinking and bias”!

And it means a clean out of the old cabal and their flunkies at some time and hopefully soon, and there will be be pain before gain.

We almost got there on that wonderful Friday on the steps of Hampden but soon-after Mr B, the well know Rangers supporter from Airdrie United somehow stopped the seconded “Motion of No Confidence”.

And we’re now being fed a coordinated “Time to move on” mantra which really means “Time to go back to the old ways” and stop asking awkward questions no matter how relevant they might be.
And leave Rangers alone.

And I have to admit I was disturbed when Even Jim Spence said he though the fans interest was waning. Time will show that he really called that one wrong.

So here is a plea to us all.

We the fans have to stay united and focused on the need for honest governance and change which is bigger than but intertwined with the Sevco episode.

To achieve that We, yes all of us have to stay in touch with our clubs constantly.

And the job of our award winning “Cloud reporters” is to be the journalists and researchers and “bean-spillers” that the MSM cannot or choose not to be and to give us the reasons to contact our clubs.

And this Blog is to remain a source of fact and measured opinion.

For the fans, By the fans For the Fans

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Eastern ex-patPosted on3:46 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
August 9, 2012 at 14:27
————————————————

Another stunning read – more than worthy of its own post.

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Richard CraniumPosted on3:51 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Am puzzled now and again by the attitude of some here about the situation TRFC find themselves in.Minty , AMC, Whyte and the MSM have been well and truly exposed….there is no doubt about that. The initial attempts to brazenly put them back into the higher leagues was rebuffed in the most dramatic and humiliating of fashions…..whats not to like about that???
The forthcoming leagues re structuring is by all accounts and from all quarters out of date, it will happen and will probably benefit TRFC in some way as well as others….I reckon we all have to live with that and the end result , one would hope, it is for the greater good of the game.The defiance shown by the blue hoardes can grate at times but look, they are playin in the 3rd division FFS…..who , really would have thought that possible 2 years ago.They deserve it, absolutely , but that they have been made held to accountand the public humiliation is exraordinary.In the meantime the small clubs of SFL3 all get a big payday this year.Its a relief that Ibrox was full the other night.

The rest is now a matter of process……its taking time, its going to take alot more time, but as someone who enjoys seeing TRFC eat humble pie and throw itself into one disaster after another,there is alot to like about stretching this out a few more months yet. AMc , and the former managers can talk about not accepting this or that, it does not matter…..the official history books will be ammended , Minty will be completely dis credited and serious consideration will be given to revoking his knighthood.For the players, I think thay can deserve some sympathy (ok, not much) but I believe in the modern game that advisors and agents are left to there own devices with regards wages and payments and the players just try and get on with playing and training…..perhaps this whole hilarious debacle will cause that to change. The club will be stripped of titles surely, but physically taking medals off of players (even mangement) who were oblivious to the illegality of it all is ,I think , a bit mean spirited……although i would make an exception for Novo and Hately.

So , have they been ‘punnished enough’? Clearly not.However, we should appreciate that there is a process at work here and calm our jets a bit until it has delivered findings and reccomendations.As far as the MSM goes……..c’mon lads , you can’t really be gettin upset about what is said /written by these guys…….they are so out of touch and behind the curve we should enjoy them.Someone made a great comparrison to Chemical Ali or these halfwit Arab press spokesmen.

Enjoy

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Madbhoy24941Posted on3:56 pm - Aug 9, 2012


I believe as a resident of The EU you are entitled to play/work for any company/team within that region without applying for a visa etc.. but it does not give you automatic rights to work in any position. There are many institutions that place documented restrictions including the very top positons of Monarchy and Political leadership. Even closer to home (on the football field), is it against EU law to tell an American that he cannot play for the German national team because he is not German? Did it contravene regulations when The English FA openly stated that the next manager of the national team will be English? In a sporting context, is it maybe the case that nationality restrictions, rather than discriminations, are or should be allowed?

As a Glasgow Celtic fan, I would not like to see restrictions that would have prevented the likes of Larsson and Moravcik from strutting thier stuff in Scotland but I would love to see more young guys coming through the ranks, a small team/batch that played together through the different levels with the best reaching the first team as a unit.

Restricting nationalities alone will not ensure the players are good enough by the time they hit the 18-21 age bracket, only natural skill, lots of practice and good coaching will achieve that.

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essexbeancounterPosted on3:58 pm - Aug 9, 2012


The main “raison d’etre” of the States of Jersey and its “financial vehicles”, is that being a tax haven, or more accurately a secrecy jurisdiction, allows mainland based companies, like MIH, to set up covert and secretive trusts, shielded by Jersey law, which cannot be forced to disclose information, just as under the Swiss banking laws of confidentiality.

Murray, and his “professional” advisors, knew exactly what they wanted to do from day one.

The fact that they could do so is aided and abetted by the UK Government, and in particular, the City of London.

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smartie1947Posted on4:00 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Over the last 2-3 days, I have detected a feeling of dejection among many regulars at the continued denial/deflection by the MSM in Scotland to the biggest story likely to arrive in their careers.
I mentioned similar in an e-mail to Alex Thomson on his blog in early July. I almost begged him to persuade creditable national sports journalists to take interest on our behalf. I cited Syed,Dickinson,Samuels,McIlvanney and Barnes as heavyweights who could make a difference if they took up the cudgels and decried their apparent lack of interest. AT was generous enough to respond to me as follows:-
“Where are they indeed? Maybe the answer lies in me not being a sports journo and not giving a damn who I upset!”
I read a news article this am re Help For Heroes, who had complained that too much of the funds raised by the public was being spent by the bureaucrats on buildings rather than on the needs of the individuals, especially those no longer in the forces. The driving force behind the campaign/crusade to bring this to the public’s attention seemed to be a concern called The Bureau of Investigative Journalism. A quick shufti of their website suggested they were willing to pursue avenues that so far had not had sufficient scrutiny by other media.
I was hoping that one or more of our more savvy contributors might like to try to pen a concise resume of this whole fiasco/it’s tax loss implications/ it’s shoddy governance/it’s political interference etc , but particularly it’s lack of critical investigative journalism in the hope that they might wish to take the matter on board.
I know my linguistic limitations and a reference from me would last longer than “War and Peace.”
I am hoping one of our revered wordsmiths might think it worth a short taster to see if it attracts any interest.

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Charlie BrownPosted on4:07 pm - Aug 9, 2012


smartie1947 says:
August 9, 2012 at 16:00
0 0 Rate This
Over the last 2-3 days, I have detected a feeling of dejection among many regulars at the continued denial/deflection by the MSM in Scotland to the biggest story likely to arrive in their careers.
========================================================================

And yet still despite all the stone wall of denial, deflection and silence it was still possible to defeat the crony-ism and commercial interests that would have seen Sevco-Rangers in the parachuted SPL or SFL1

Even though those fighting the good fight of revealing the truth and for sporting integrity got miniscule column inches and precious little airtime compared to the succulent lamb brigade we still won the argument as bloggers, and club forums and word of mouth between fans/friends proved more powerful than the propaganda.

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jockybhoyPosted on4:10 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Well the trolls did their job and we’re back on revenue sharing, aka Celtic fans providing income support to other teams. This has been discussed at length on the RTC blog, but I’m happy to dance the dance again…

Charlie Brown says: August 9, 2012 at 14:42
Was it any less of a business in those 91 years (1890 until 1981) than now?
Yes. It was MUCH less of a business then. Are you kidding me?

Football was in a far more robust financial health than it has been in the last 20+ years when the number of insolvency failures in Scottish football has simply exploded and we now have the single biggest casualty yet.
That’s wasn’t “robust” health, that was inconsequential finances based on an amateurish approach to the game, as the players of yore are quick to tell us. If we’re saying football has more money coming through it making it a more risky business now, than when it was run on the amateur basis it was previously, we’re in full agreement.

If we think we can turn back the clock to the halcyon days of Scottish football, when Scotland taught the rest of the world how to play, I think that ship has sailed.

Even in our more recent period of success (New Firm) Scottish teams qualified for Europe because England were banned and Eastern Europe was still in, er, blocs. For example there are now 5 countries where there was only Yugoslavia, a couple where there was Czechoslovakia, 15 where there was USSR. Using the old model of the European Cup that’s 22 league champions where there was previously 3. And look at the signings Ukranian and Russian teams are making now. They becoming more professional and you seem to be advocating becoming less? Further there is the reformatting of the European competitons that reduce the likelihood of “giant killing” by moving to the mini-league format.

BTW There seems to be an overt fixation on the NFL revenue sharing as a model. NFL franchises cost in excess of $700m (c. £1bn) – there is no promotion or relegation, there are close to zero “away” fans. There is 1 team per 9,800,000 of population against Scotland’s 1 team per 125,000 (32 teams in a population of 314m versus 42 teams in a population of 5.2m. I’m not sure we’re comparing like with like.here!

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Philip José FarmerPosted on4:12 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 9, 2012 at 15:17

======================

That sort of insular argument, based on a notion that football operates within a vaccuum is pointless.

The socio-economic changes over the last 30 years have been enormous. Whether it be levels of disposable income, people’s mobility, access to tv channels, in home entertainment, the internet, access to other sports … the list goes on and on.

To suggest that all of football’s current financial problems are based on the creation of the SPL and changes to gate sharing is merely seeking to find a historic reason to make changes which suit a current agenda.

If businesses are failing it is because they are spending to much money or are not attracting enough sales. Why should the SPL bolster a team like that at the expense of say Falkirk, who would happily take a place in the SPL and bring their young squad into the league.

We do need changes in the game, but supporting dead wood isn’t one of them.

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youcantbuyhistoryPosted on4:21 pm - Aug 9, 2012


listened to an ecstatic charlie green rave about the sevco11 win against east fife and the 38000 crowd. he then went on to his next objective the all important sevco share issue,have the fans swallowed this hook line and sinker,will they buy shares if so how much will charlie raise,i remember the msm saying when fergus arrived at celtic the share issue would be a flop it wasnt.bomber brown and walter have been sent packing and alistair now loves charlie this saga never ceases to amaze.are ticketus really the girls guide answer to money lending or will charlie announce some arrangement after the share issue and season books have been sold ofcourse.tune in tomorrow next week next month……………………

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john clarkePosted on4:25 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Dark Blue says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:58
‘If Celtic or Rangers fans from Aberdeen Edinburgh Dundee and elsewhere
supported their local teams instead of glory hvnting …’
——
The obvious comment to make is that the concept of supporting a club for the sake of glory-hvnting, or to enjoy some self-manufactured vicarious sense of belonging to a “successful” team , is beyond the comprehension of the vast majority of football supporters, certainly in Scotland.

I acknowledge that there is the weird phenomenon ( still not fully understood by social anthroplogists) in Asian countries where skilful marketing can create a kind of ersatz , fashion-accessory ‘supporter’ of western teams, like, say, Man U.

Or, as we saw here twenty years ago, a whole lot of faddish ‘fan’ interest in the Green Bay Packers or Tampa Bay whatevers, with kids all trying to be quarter-backs.

However,If, as most of us are, you are introduced to football at your mother’s knee or on your dad’s shoulders, you cannot help being an ’emotional’ supporter of the club that they, and their families, were similarly introduced to.Wherever you go in the world.

And this has, IN ITSELF, got nothing to do with sectarian, political,racist, or socio-economic factors. ( Regrettably, some of these aspects have intruded in some quarters, but that is an aberration, and is largely confined, in various degrees, to a very few clubs).

That kind of emotional support, the tug-at-the-heart support that in reality has kept football clubs ( most of which do not in any sense achieve the ‘heights of glory’) in existence simply cannot be manufactured.

And just thinking along these lines makes one even more acutely aware of just how huge, and how far-reaching the consequences for thousands of peepil ,has been the act of betrayal of RFC(IA) by SDM and the wicked men of Ibrox and their successors.

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ikiPosted on4:28 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Kilgore Trout says:
August 9, 2012 at 13:53
I wonder what their official position is on the status of the newest club in the SFL is?
Do them see this as also being their first year in the Scottish Cup?
========
Regan when asked about the history answered that it was all a matter of opinion!
He sounded unconvincing.
The question was repeated and he expanded his answer with hot air.
He sounded even more unconvincing.
Of course, he does not care whether he is believed or is convincing.

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jockybhoyPosted on4:31 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Pars Fan says: August 9, 2012 at 12:26
On my post I had a line that went “this blog has only been running for a few days. I don’t know if it’s the same Pars Fan or a new poster/imposter taking on a name that was active on the previous blog”. I didn’t post coz it looked a bit paranoid. Should have stuck to the courage of my convictions. Welcome back btw. 🙂

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Charlie BrownPosted on4:35 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Jocky & Philip

Whether modern football has vastly more sums of money pouring through it than 30 years ago or less money now than it had ten years ago is somewhat irrelevant.

the principles remain the same at whatever scale or value – if you give vastly more to a few and much less to the remaining then overtime the differences are not linear they are exponential and the disparity widens.

Scottish football was more competitive because through a variety of economic factors (gate-sharing, wage-restraints, more equal financial distribution etc) some of the wind was taken out of the Sails of the big ships (Celtic & Rangers) and that extra puff helped get at various times Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock, Dundee etc much closer to the Glasgow clubs than they are now.

Between 1946-85 those clubs I listed above won 12 out of the 40 Scottish titles competed for. Since 1985 we have had ZERO non Glasgow winners of the SPL title in 27 seasons since Aberdeens last title win.

You can argue about fairness and commercial imperatives all you want – the simple facts are that changes to the economic model ie dropping gate sharing, skewing the income distribution towards the top 2, voting methods that preserve the failed/failing status quo etc have all served to benefit Rangers & Celtic more than any other clubs and our football has become completety uncompetitive at in terms of title winners & even title challengers.

Jocky you also got your dates a bit off – Aberdeen & Dundee Utd dominated between 1979-85 but Heysel & English clubs banned from Europe was after 1985. Indeed English clubs ban helped bring the likes of Butcher, Woods, Hately, Roberts etc to Rangers as well as the lavish sums offered and paid to them.

Phil – Falkirk and several other SFL clubs would be welcome additions to the SPL – we need an enlarged league and a fairer voting system and income distribution.

The current SPL set up is a spectacular and systemic failure.

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smartie1947Posted on4:37 pm - Aug 9, 2012


Charlie Brown @ 16.07

Point taken re power of internet,word of mouth etc
But speaking personally I know how much of a boost I got when Alex Thomson took an interest, was invited onto BBC/STV and was able to put over the alternative view. My post was in the hope that this organisation might carry enough clout to interest a few more of the same calibre.

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jammy dodgerPosted on4:42 pm - Aug 9, 2012


jocky bhoy says:
August 9, 2012 at 16:10
Well the trolls did their job and we’re back on revenue sharing, aka Celtic fans providing income support to other teams. This has been discussed at length on the RTC blog, but I’m happy to dance the dance again…
++++
I do not agree that discussing revenue sharing is “trolling”. This forum is about Scottish football generally, and the way that revenue is shared out is fundamental to any debate on the future of the game in Scotland.

Football in Scotland has been destroyed by money over the last 30 years, and in my view, the whole structure now has to be rebuilt urgently. We need clear and fair rules applied equally to all, a viable structure that encourages home grown talent, and a business model that does not rely on sugar daddies. If Celtic have to build a team from the West of Scotland as a result, and forget the pricey imports, then I’m OK with that. It has worked out just fine before.

Maybe home gates should be split, or maybe not. I’ve not made my mind up on that one, but I appreciate the arguments on both sides. Raising that question is quite simply not trolling, however. It is On Topic so far as I am concerned, unless I’ve completely misunderstood the purpose of this forum, of course.

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jockybhoyPosted on4:59 pm - Aug 9, 2012


jammy dodger says: August 9, 2012 at 16:42

I was meaning trolls like the guy claiming to be “Pars Fan” (who has denied it was him) that tried to drag Celtic’s name into the frame with recent issues Penn State, whilst calling for the blog to focus on other issues such as voting etc.

I’m happy to debate revenue sharing til the cows come hme (done it before) and will do so again. For the record my stance is:

>> TV money should be shared more evenly
>> Eruopean money should stay with the club that won it
>> Gate money for league games should stay with the home team (though I am intrigued by the season ticket suggestion) – I pay to support my team, not prop up others.
>> No problem with hsaring money from cup games – the “luck of the home draw” should not penalise away teams financially

Celtic built a new stadium to hold the capacity it has regularly achieved and work hard to fill it (the brickbats aimed at the Chief Exec for writing to remind people to renew their season tickets is an example of this. I assume no other team does it, why else would Celtic be singled out for this?)

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IniquitousIVPosted on4:59 pm - Aug 9, 2012


CrazyHorse at 15:18
I like your optimism and I really hope your prognosis is correct. However, those of us with incipient paranoia reflect on the following:
If the rules had been followed, Sevco would have not been admitted to Division 3.
The transfer embargo is a chimera.
I suspect that we will not hear of Craig White or Ticketus again. I believe Ticketus to be drip feeding funding to Sevco in the expectation of not sustaining a total loss and recouping their investment via future ST sales in the top flight.
The return of Sevco to the SPL with haste will be gerrymandered by the coalition of Regan, Doncaster and Ogilvie. It seems that it will take an Act of Parliament to uneat this unholy trinity.
I do not expect anything decisive to emanate from Lord Hodge. Unless the internet bampots keep up an exhaustive and exhausting campaign (and who is not weary of it by now?) the malevolent powers-that-be will contrive to quietly drop any investigation of the double contracts.

I have some hope that the liquidators, who I trust are more independent and less complicit than
the administrators, will act in good faith in the best interests of the creditors and revoke the most egregious contracts.
As it is, we now have Sevco, with the same survival instincts as Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction,”
back playing at Ibrox, with essentially the same name, strip, colours, chants of bigotry, contempt for rules and sense of entitlement.
You are quite right that we could not possibly have anticipated the present situation, but the Establishment has now hunkered down for a siege and I am not at all optimistic that the Forces for Good will prevail.
Iniquitous

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