Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
Eeramacaroonbar says: (41)
November 4, 2013 at 12:14 pm
David Low on Twitter just there showing a link which suggests the Worthington Group are trying to raise cash with the implication of pressing ahead with their claim to the assets.
Just curious, wondering if anyone can make things clearer. Is it in Whyte’s interest to push ahead with this now ? Has he got wind that admin is just round the corner ?
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The belief of many on here is that the Ltd Company (ie what was Sevco Scotland) will be about to transfer the ownership of the properties to the PLC in lieu of their £16m+ debt to them. The Club will then be left to flounder and will be open to bids from the Brogues but will be tied into a long-term rental buyback deal as previously discussed on here.
Maybe CW thinks that it would be easier to action a claim before this transfer takes place, having said all that I don’t know why he hasn’t acted before now, was he trying to cut himself in on the rental deal without the hassle/expense of a court case?
Blu
I was engaged in a conversation with Auldheid. During said conversation, I thought to ask him how he saw things at the club he supports. He was the one guy who simply gave a matter of fact answer and we coninued.
If that is judged to be ‘defection’ then fine, better to ban me from the blog.
To his credit (IMO), TSFM hasn’t deleted my posts but I think it’s time I brought a curtain down on the issue because what has ‘deflected’ the blog somewhat is the debate that ensued from the initial complaints.
Can some market type answer me a couple/three questions please?
On the day the share ‘lock in’ ends, will there be a scramble to dump (free or penny) shares to maximise profit?
Does there have to be a buyer for every sell?
What’s best guess for the share price entering the New Year.
Many thanks in advance
Greenock Jack says: (140)
November 4, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Theory is easy and the problem with planning business matters in football is the unpredictable, ie. the results, with CL qualifiers being the best current example. Can I ask you what happens to the Celtic business model if you don’t qualify for the CL group stages (shop window) in the next two seasons ?
……………………………………………
Are you suggesting financial distress on the same scale as the one man band David Murray created?
Your business should be geared towards known revenues…the CL is unknown from the 1st game onwards in the qualifiers…if however you were to be granted a group place…then the revenue projections have more certainty…but currently our budget will be set in line with expected revenues.
So in answer to your question…a readjustment to expenditure maybe required…with the right people and structures in place to carry that through should there be a significant change.
Like any business…it is the unexpected that can cause financial distress beyond your control…i.e if all the season ticket holders suddenly said…do you know what no more season ticket…it’s pick and choose from now on…pay on the day…that uncertainty would require a major restructure to the clubs finances.
If I am honest…there is a number of options should the roof spring a major leak…
However…the way in which it is structured at Celtic prevents the David Murray scenario happening…one man making and taking high roller risks without a counter check or balance…which is why Fergus structured our club the way it is.
johnnymanc says: (11)
November 4, 2013 at 12:46 pm
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Eeramacaroonbar says: (41)
November 4, 2013 at 12:14 pm
David Low on Twitter just there showing a link which suggests the Worthington Group are trying to raise cash with the implication of pressing ahead with their claim to the assets.
Just curious, wondering if anyone can make things clearer. Is it in Whyte’s interest to push ahead with this now ? Has he got wind that admin is just round the corner ?
=============================================================================
The belief of many on here is that the Ltd Company (ie what was Sevco Scotland) will be about to transfer the ownership of the properties to the PLC in lieu of their £16m+ debt to them. The Club will then be left to flounder and will be open to bids from the Brogues but will be tied into a long-term rental buyback deal as previously discussed on here.
Maybe CW thinks that it would be easier to action a claim before this transfer takes place, having said all that I don’t know why he hasn’t acted before now, was he trying to cut himself in on the rental deal without the hassle/expense of a court case?
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Cheers for that. My understanding is a bit clearer now. I suppose I am asking questions to which there are no certain answers. Especially where Whyte is concerned
Bawsman says: (223)
November 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm
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Technically yes there does have to be a buyer for every seller…but it is possible to sell shares you don’t own on the basis you can buy back what you have sold within your settlement period at a lower rate…thus making a profit on the difference..
Paulsmac
Are you suggesting financial distress on the same scale as the one man band David Murray created?
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I want to drop the issue but seeing as you will have been writing this before I posted my last, I’ll give you a short answer. Last post on this.
I wasn’t suggesting anything, I was simply asking another poster a question.
The SDM reference comes from your own thoughts and IMO illustrates the point I made on a common underlying anger being an important feature when it comes to certain issues.
I obviously understand some of the reasons why this has developed.
That isn’t a criticism as such, more a personal observation.
http://www.list.co.uk/event/370180-rangers-fc-debate/
A good time to go in and ask for your copy of “Downfall? 😉
Lord Wobbly says: (957)
November 4, 2013 at 1:18 pm
http://www.list.co.uk/event/370180-rangers-fc-debate/
A good time to go in and ask for your copy of “Downfall? 😉
======================================================
That’s a disgrace, you mean they can discuss a book about RFC’s fortunes in public, who are these people?
That shouldn’t be allowed to happen in this country, Free Speech? Whatever next?
Don’t recall a Downfall jamboree in Waterstones
Follow We Will?, The Fall and Rise? their book titles are as backwards as their opinions
PS I notice the event discusses the ‘possible future rise’ Possible? WATP 😆
Danish Pastry says: (1630)
November 2, 2013 at 7:08 pm
Well done on getting Keith Jackson and professionalism in twice in the one paragraph.
That’s some feat.
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Indeed it is. Although the word ‘professionalism’ applies to Andy Murray only, in that particular paragraph!
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Keith Jackson failed hack succulent lamb consumer spiv puppet PR release churnalist, tells those working in another profession that they should adopt a more professional approach to their work?
That’s off the radar irony
paulsatim says: (602)
November 3, 2013 at 11:40 pm
“I still wonder about Mark Hateley red card that hurt Rangers’ chances of European Cup glory”, reveals Walter Smith
9 May 2008 00:00
WALTER SMITH has spent 15 years wondering whether or not he was cheated out of leading Rangers into a European Cup Final.
Smith admitted yesterday a little bit of him still cannot quite get over the suspicious circumstances which scarred Marseille’s Champions League triumph in 1993.
The red card which ruled Mark Hateley out of Smith’s team for a do-or-die clash with the French club – still perplexes the Rangers manager.
It was Marseille – an outfit that was later found to be corrupt to the core – who went on to lift the greatest prize in club football.
Yesterday he said: “The ordering-off of Mark Hateley against Bruges. It meant he was banned for the game in Marseille.
“Were we cheated? Well, that would make a good headline.
“But, like I say, I couldn’t work out why Hateley was sent off. I still can’t.
______________________________________________________________
I’ll give you a hint Walter.
Watch the video below where Hateley elbows a Bruges defender on the side of the head. It was almost McCulloch-esque in its execution.
Quelle surprise!
Imagine a Rangers manager complaining about the opposition cheating!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzfniIEZsTo
Hello peeps
So, the road to recovery for Sevco
despite none of the “saviours” suggesting living within their means – thus admin/liquidation/punters being fleeced and scottish football being dragged through the mud as rules are bent to accommodate them…would anyone on TSFM like to suggest what a Sevco living within it’s means might actually look like?
This year they have had operating expenses of about 33M on a 19M turn over – now some of that has been one offs (about £4M i recall – please correct my numbers.
but, they have a £29M cost base with income of £19M
wages are about £18M – and there are a futher 11M in costs beyond that.
I don’t imagine there is too much that can be done about the £11M costs – they must relate to things like rates, VAT, security, stewards? Electricity, catering, coach hire (surely they can get a discount on this now?) overnight plush hotel stays etc. Office supplies and shredding, phone/car/advertising costs – i suppose those statements to the market come at a cost. And then there are the ongoing legal costs too.
So, 19M turnover, a fixed cost base of about £10M – that leaves £9M to pay every single person employed by Sevco.
the squad are about £8M and everyone else is £10M
How much of that £10M is the spivs/directors/coaching staff? and how much of it is “essential” staff – ticket office, stewards, hospitality, grounds staff, scouts, coaches etc?
The squad wage bill would be easy to cull, and they should be able to fund a SPL std squad on £1M – how much to ICT, St Johnstone, Ross County, Kilmarnock and Hibs spend on their squads annually? (i genuinely don’t know – but what is an average SPL squad budget?)
ally and the backroom boys are on £1.5M between them – huge saving there if you appointed Gus McPherson/Jimmy Calderwood/Terry Butcher
Almost all the directors are gone – will McColl/DK/Paul Murray etc all want a wage from the club they love and are tying to save? especially given they are already independently wealthy?
Surely the backroom wages would get down to 7M and a £1M squad – that would see them break even
no?
is it THAT difficult?
Greenock Jack says:
“…It has to be said that Celtic have got their business model up and running at the right time to take advantage of the more straightforward access to the CL group stages…”
Theory is easy and the problem with planning business matters in football is the unpredictable, ie. the results, with CL qualifiers being the best current example. Can I ask you what happens to the Celtic business model if you don’t qualify for the CL group stages (shop window) in the next two seasons ?
I guess, Greenock Jack, if Celtic miss out on the “CL group stages” they will just have to do what they did all those years when Rangers (in liquidation) carried on spending other people’s money (OPM) denying Celtic and other Scottish teams access to Europe through foul means.
Celtic would just costs (look at the playing budget under Strachan if you want to see how that’s done) or sell players (McGeady was sold during OldGers OPM 3IAR).
Celtic did OK in recent years in those circumstances but to suggest that Celtic’s business model is based around the lack of Rangers and “the more straightforward access to the CL group stages” is disingenuous on a couple of levels. Firstly, Celtic had already chosen this strategy before OldGers full travails came to light – they chose to cut playing budgets to a sustainable level when WGS arrived.
And secondly due to Scotland’s poor coefficient (thanks in no small part to OldGers poor performances in previous years) Celtic had to overcome 3 national (sic) champions just to reach the group stages. Not the automatic entry OldGers enjoyed in their last two excursions. Just getting to the CL Groups in those circumstances is an achievement.
OldGers had those two consecutive years of CL Group stages in those 3 years; the money earned was not enough to keep them from going bust. Heck, in fairness, OldGers also went through two (but not 3!) qualifying rounds to reach the Groups before getting bounced down and making the Europa final – but again all that money was just paying down debt.
My point is, on one level agreeing with you , CL money is NOT a sustainable business model, but also that is avowedly not Celtic’s model. Celtic’s stated model is to live within revenue and IF the we do get a windfall from the Champions’ League, it is treated exactly as that: use some (not all) or of that to invest in the squad. If we don’t get it and we need a cash injection, we sell players.
It’s not rocket science.
It was’nt the elbow that got him sent off
It was the follow up fist that went ” BOFF!”
All part of the game for Walter.
Carntyne says: (92)
November 4, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Watch the video below where Hateley elbows a Bruges defender on the side of the head. It was almost McCulloch-esque in its execution.
——
To say nothing of the right hook which follows it!
Found this quite interesting:
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/u/ex-chairman-warns-rangers-over-agm.1383557414
interesting part being “If an AGM was not to happen I think it would be a criminal offence and the shares would be suspended”.
They seem to play fast and loose over there on what is and isn’t a criminal offence.
Auldheid says: (1012)
November 4, 2013 at 1:56 pm
It was’nt the elbow that got him sent off.
_____________________________________
Well, it should have!… 😉
Bawsman says:
Paulmac2 says:
Technically yes there does have to be a buyer for every seller…but it is possible to sell shares you don’t own on the basis you can buy back what you have sold within your settlement period at a lower rate…thus making a profit on the difference..
Is there not also the possibility that a buyer tells his broker he/she will buy shares at some price (eg <48.35) until further notice. Builds up a stake and supports the price at what they deem an acceptable level (esp given the low volumes)?
I may be wrong on that, I mostly learned finance from watching Trading Places*
I even used the example of Frozen Orange Juice to illustrate commodities in my economics finals at uni. Bad choice I feel, should have gone for pork bellys – that you use to make bacon, that you might find in a bacon lettuce & tomato sandwich 🙄 🙄 🙄 )
“It was Marseille – an outfit that was later found to be corrupt to the core” quelle irony… 😳
Scottish football screened live in China for first time
By: Newsroom Staff on 04 Nov, 2013 13:44
SCOTTISH football will be screened live in China for the first time and to an estimated 60million people after the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) kicked off its new 10-year, £20million international broadcast deal with a Chinese partner.
First Minister Alex Salmond was joined in Beijing by SPFL CEO Neil Doncaster and clubs’ representative, Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell, where the SPFL struck the new broadcast agreement with live sports online streaming provider PPLive TV.
The ground-breaking deal covers the live screening of 58 SPFL matches in China, the world’s second biggest economy and fastest-growing, as part of PPLive TV’s European football offering that includes coverage of England’s Barclays Premier League and Spain’s Liga BBVA (formerly La Liga).
The agreement, which will see SPFL season 2013/14 fixtures broadcast online to 60million PPLive TV users in China, is part of an international agreement between the SPFL and MP & Silva that is expected to generate more than £20m for the SPFL and its member clubs over the next 10 years.
The First Minister made the announcement alongside Peter Lawwell and Neil Doncaster at a Scotland innovation showcase in Beijing that demonstrated the expertise and pedigree of Scottish business, design, education and sport during a five-day trade mission to China.
The First Minister said: “This is a hugely exciting development for Scottish football, with 58 fixtures from the Scottish Professional Football League to be screened live in China for the first time to 60million people through PPLive.
“There is clearly a growing appetite for European football coverage in China and now football fans across this country will be able to enjoy the action from iconic Scottish footballing venues such as Celtic Park, Easter Road, Fir Park and Pittodrie.
“There have been some tough times in Scottish football over recent years, but with news today that clubs can look forward to a £20m boost as part of this fantastic international broadcasting deal, I am confident the fans can look forward to a bright future.”
Speaking on behalf of SPFL clubs, Peter Lawwell said: “The English Premier League experience shows that giving overseas audiences the chance to watch games week-in, week-out is the key to building an international fan base.
“Celtic has already played a leading role in promoting the Scottish game to global audiences, mainly through our recent participation and successes in the UEFA Champions League, and we see China as a country with enormous potential.
“This deal shows the ambition of the SPFL and its clubs to continue to expand the Scottish game into new worldwide territories.”
Neil Doncaster, SPFL CEO, said: “This is a brilliant result for Scottish football and the Scottish Professional Football League. This deal will showcase the Scottish game to up to 60million people across China and opens up a huge marketplace in the world’s fastest-growing economy.
“We want to build on this opportunity, not only in China but across other significant global markets, and discussions with several potential partners are ongoing.
“We aim to significantly raise the profile and popularity of our game among global audiences, with the resultant financial spin-offs and commercial opportunities for the SPFL and our member clubs.”
We are ever vigilant on the The Rangers/SFA story, but I would urge all readers to keep tabs on developments with the SFA Compliance Officer and Dundee United’s Nadir Ciftci. As you may be aware, Shifty (as he is known in Dundee) was red carded following a bout of fisticuffs between the majority of outfield players involved in an ICT v DU League Cup tie last Tuesday. The reasons for the fisticuffs I shall leave to one side.
It has been reasonably public knowledge since the end of last week that the red card was to be rescinded as the referee’s report suggested it was issued for an offence which did not merit expulsion. The SFA Compliance Officer had by this time issued two notices to the player for offences not dealt with by the referee despite being part and parcel of the melee. Many honourable Arabs were discomforted by this series of events which smack of smoke and cover-up, not dissimilar to events after a certain penalty was given/not given at Tannadice a few years back. I am hearing today that Mr Lunny may be on rather thin ice and his citations may be binned pronto. Whatever the outcome, I think we the paying public deserve to know the truth of what went on following Tuesday’s game. Transparency is the SFA’s motto is it not?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1010)
November 4, 2013 at 2:08 pm
That happened to me too at weekend, still no sign of email in my inbox or spam folders
Reilly1926 says: (173)
November 3, 2013 at 8:25 pm
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Greenock Jack says: (128)
November 3, 2013 at 8:04 pm
Theory is easy and the problem with planning business matters in football is the unpredictable, ie. the results, with CL qualifiers being the best current example. Can I ask you what happens to the Celtic business model if you don’t qualify for the CL group stages (shop window) in the next two seasons ?
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It was talked about out loud Jack that had Celtic not qualified for this year’s CL group we would have HAD to have sold a player to balance the books. The books have to be balanced. This is the lesson learned from the RFC(IL) fiasco.
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I think Celtic operate on roughly 3, 4 or maybe 5 year cycle. So failure to qualify for the CL doesn’t result in a sudden urgent need to sell a player but the books must be balanced over the short to medium term, so transfer expenditure might not be as high in future seasons when Celtic do qualify. Likewise if the too good to turn down type offers like Wanyama come in, then they are likley to be accepted regardless of CL qualification.
In this way, Celtic avoid the TRFC scenario of permanently selling at wolf from the door sale rates and invariably get a good return.
I don’t see the same level of dependence on CL income at Celtic as there was at Rangers where it was pretty much critical
Malcolm Murray audio on Alan Brazil show,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5biuT1u_zQ
Greenock Jack says: (142)
November 4, 2013 at 12:51 pm
==================================
Fair enough Jack, but it seems to me that you have tended to focus a lot on Celtic’s finances and the potential negative impact on those of Rangers of demise. I’d have thought that the much more important issue for Rangers fans would be RFC, RIFC and TRFC’s finances? It’s not as if Celtic caused the problems at Ibrox, is it?
PS. TSFM’s judgement on trolling has been pretty sound, I concur with his/her take on your posts.
It’s ok to debate with “decent bears” as long as you don’t mention cheating or Liquidation, the rest is panto played out to deflect from those two issues and boy has there been a lot of deflection on topics outwith these two issues, the whole self created mess we are witnessing is deflection. The cheating, liquidation and need for an alternative to state funding is the reality.
As for the corruption in their favour etc, Hugh Dallas got a promotion instead of a hunting, where do we start, and more so finish with the corruption topic, the CFC AGM may give us a clue, but what is more interesting for me is why are they satisfied with the outcome ? I’m not. And thanks again Auldheid.
I see that yet another player has walked into the Scotland squad by dint of playing for one of the top two clubs in Glasgow.
I refer of course to Partick goalkeeper Scott Fox who is named in the Scotland squad for the friendlies against the United States and Norway.
When will this end?
Scottish football needs a strong Partick Thistle.
Greenock Jack,
A massive apology from me. Obviously the red (with green and white hoops 😈 ) mist must have decsended when I read your initial ‘Seville’ post. I mistakenly inferred that you were referring to CFC’s recent exploits there (I’m on smartphone now so can’t check back) but you mentioned circumstances along the lines of scouting and investment, then success, then failure again or words to that effect. I see in your qualifying Email since you were referring to Seville the club. In my defence I would say that the criteria you listed also fitted CFC in that early noughties period but that seems to have led others to pull on that thread a bit too hard. Please accept my sincere apology – I fear I may have worsened your recent TSFM user experience 😆
I’m still intrigued by these missing bits you still feel haven’t been adequately discussed here btw.
http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=RFC
1 share sold at 14.16 today
. . . Maybe Jim McColl has chucked the towel in ?
Smugas
Thank’s for the apology.
Sevilla FC
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/94729-the-mastery-of-monchi-the-power-behind-sevillas-throne
Part of article below.
In 2000, Sevilla’s plight was dire, the club had just been relegated from the top division and facing an uncertain future, both on a football and economic level. Into this climate came Monchi who was appointed as the club’s sporting director.
He was given two key objectives, develop the club’s youth policy so that the club could develop their own stars of the future, and implement a scouting system that will allow the club to spot potential stars before any of the big clubs do. On both counts Monchi has more than exceeded his brief.
In terms of youth development, Sevilla have developed some of the finest young players in Europe over the past few years. The club’s academy has overseen the development of the likes of Jose Antonio Reyes, Sergio Ramos, Diego Capel, Jesus Navas, and the late Antonio Puerta.
Some of these players have been sold, with the club recouping £50 million since 1997 through the sale of academy players, but others have stayed and undoubtedly helped the team develop-Capel and Navas are key parts of the current Sevilla team.
Sevilla’s academy is now one of the most productive in Spain, boasting 400 players across 22 youth teams. It is now a rival to the much vaunted academies of Real Madrid and Barcelona, which is itself testament to the work of Monchi.
For scouting, Monchi has created a intricate network of over 700 scouts around the globe, all designed to help Sevilla spot and sign the brightest prospects in world football before any of the big clubs become aware of them.
This policy has paid dividends as some absolute bargains have arrived at Sevilla; with the likes of Daniel Alves, Julio Baptista, and Luis Fabiano all being signed for relatively low prices.
——————————————————————-
This run beside a period of success (from wiki)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevilla_FC
Sevilla opened their 2006-07 season by winning the 2006 UEFA Super Cup on 25 August 2006 with a 3-0 victory over Champions League winners and compatriots Barcelona in the Stade Louis II in Monaco. The season ended with a second consecutive UEFA Cup win, against fellow Spaniards Espanyol in Hampden Park, Glasgow. In addition, Sevilla defeated Getafe in the 2007 Copa del Rey Final. Sevilla finished third in that season’s La Liga to qualify for the 2007–08 UEFA Champions League. As a result of these successes, Sevilla was voted as the IFFHS Team of the Year for the second consecutive season, an unmatched feat.
Sevilla won the 2008 Supercopa de España versus La Liga champions Real Madrid.[37] The season started to derail after defender Antonio Puerta suffered a heart attack on the first game of the season and died three days later on 28 August. Three days after his death Sevilla lost 3-1 to AC Milan in the 2007 UEFA Super Cup in Monaco.[38] Juande Ramos, responsible for Sevilla’s recent successes, resigned as manager on 27 October to take the post at England’s Tottenham Hotspur and was replaced by Sevilla Atlético manager Manolo Jimenez.[39] In spite of the issues, Sevilla advanced in first place in its Champions League group ahead of Arsenal before being knocked out in the last 16 on penalties to Fenerbahce of Turkey.
In the Summer of 2008 before Jiménez’s first season as first-team manager, Dani Alves and Seydou Keita were sold to Barcelona and Christian Poulsen to Juventus. Sevilla finished third in La Liga with a club record-equalling 21 victories and a club record number of away victories.
The 2009-10 season saw a third-consecutive qualification for the Champions League. On 19 May 2010 Sevilla defeated Atlético Madrid 2-0 in the 2010 Copa del Rey Final in the Nou Camp. Before the 2010-11 season started, Sevilla lost to Barcelona 5-3 on aggregate in the Supercopa and were eliminated in the Champions League play-offs by Braga of Portugal.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
In 2013, due to financial crisis club were forced to sell most of their players .The sale of Negredo and Jesus Navas gave the club a combined 40 million Euros.
The club later undergone a transformation by the arrival of many young talents. The cycle begins again ?
What odds Jackson writes the “offishul” story of the “Fall & Rise & Fall” of the institution formerly known as Rangers?
In that way he gets his marching money, he gets hush money by way access to help write a book the Bears will buy and he kind of stays in the fold (er, pen? :slamb: :slamb: :slamb: 😳 :slamb: )
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1011)
November 4, 2013 at 2:05 pm
—-
Thanks for posting the news about the Chinese deal, NTH.
It is good news, no question. £2M a year is not to be mocked.
It would be so much better, though,if we were able to get rid of our Football equivalents of Bo Xilai!
Leaving that aside, If I were Chairman of any of the SPFL clubs that are likely to feature in the broadcast games , I would already be signing up a Chinese student/resident here to get him or her working on drumming up a fan-base back in the home town!
Greenock Jack says:
“…It has to be said that Celtic have got their business model up and running at the right time to take advantage of the more straightforward access to the CL group stages…”
Spot the deliberate errors? First of all the Celtic business model has been running since 2003, it’s not as if they hurriedly cobbled something together to cope with the shattering demise of their city neighbours.
The business model caused some angst amongst the fans because it seemed at times (2005, 2009-2011) that Celtic was not competing with its then rivals. Of course the fans were right but the fact that they weren’t competing was more down to the bending and breaking of many rules of sporting fairness by Rangers and its board of directors.
The second error is the reference to taking “advantage of the more straightforward access to the CL group stages”.
Access to the CL stages by a Scottish club has rarely been straightforward – just ask Ally McCoist – so there is little advantage as such.
When he is not looking forward and forecasting doom and financial gloom for Celtic, Jack can be found looking back and portraying Celtic’s financial success as a combination of good luck and….very good luck.
In fact it was neither of these, more down to a combination of long term fiscal probity allied to a very good football manager, a world class scouting system (aka John Park) and a team willing to die for each other.
As others have suggested, Jack might do better to stop looking enviously at other successful Scottish clubs (there are quite a few nowadays) and come up with some suggestions for the fiscal and footballing farce that is the lot of the current club called Rangers.
PS I hear on the side that the DR may shortly be displaying their latest signing on the football writing front…some bright new talent apparently, hired at great expense, with a fantastic “inside” knowledge of the Scottish game.
If what I hear is correct, that appointment must surely sound the death knell for the MSM
SlimS.
I heard the same funnily enough, but I wrote it off as I just couldn’t see what could be in it for the DR, unless they’re formally attaching themselves to one side of one side of the glasgow divide. That would be a very dangerous strategy I would suggest. I said on here earlier that it was a given that said journo would have a confidentiality clause on him as tight as a dundonian’s wallet, but it was questionable if the terms would extend as far as the SFA or any other clubs with something to hide. That would make him a worthwhile signing as long as it was presented in a meaningful way, not a “I know something you don’t know” situation in which said person seemed to revel (when he was somebody big in football 😆 ). Had his own documentary don’t you know. Shot in Holland and everything.
Slim
As others have suggested, Jack might do better to stop looking enviously at other successful Scottish clubs (there are quite a few nowadays) and come up with some suggestions for the fiscal and footballing farce that is the lot of the current club called Rangers.
The second error is the reference to taking “advantage of the more straightforward access to the CL group stages”.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
GJ
Re. my inital post/exchange with Auldheid (c&p’d at 12:11 today)
There were 13 lines on the problems at Rangers and 2 lines on Celtic.
Posters who replied, focused exclusively on the 2 lines on Celtic and that’s where the conversation led.
If the present automatic SPFL title (this season and next) coupled with the “CL Champions qualifiers route’, in which you avoid the likes of Arsenal isn’t more straightforward then that is your opinion, I reserve the right to disagree.
douglas reynholm says: (33)
November 4, 2013 at 1:59 pm
interesting part being “If an AGM was not to happen I think it would be a criminal offence and the shares would be suspended”.
They seem to play fast and loose over there on what is and isn’t a criminal offence.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Spot on, Douglas.
With the Ibrox outfit,
lawbreaking is only a criminal offence in Govan
until Sevco commits the offence.
Then Ibroxlight shines in their minds
to reveal Sevcosight,
which is similar to hindsight but with a bad squint,
and then with a nod and a wink and a funny handshake,
‘ there’s nothing to see here, move along ‘
and no further action is taken
while justice is flushed down the Hampden toilet.
Never mind, the Chinese will think they’re watching the real thing.
So according to Malcolm Murray, the Scots who emigrated abroad to further the Empire are TRFC fans and the Irish who emigrated for other reasons are Celtic fans.
Newsflash!
I am Scottish and very proud (sometime not!) of my Scottish roots. No one in my family have ever been born outside of Scotland nor can any of my roots possibly come from outside Scotland. In short I am 100% Scottish.
Yet my team is Celtic because of the schoolboy joy I had of watching Jimmy Johnstone and Kenny Dalglish work their magic.
I emigrated 20 years ago because Thatcher made sure there were no high tech jobs in Scotland for me once I left university.
Idiotic views like his belong with the British Empire he puffed on about – in the bin!
I see that yet another player has walked into the Scotland squad by dint of playing for one of the top two clubs in Glasgow.
I refer of course to Partick goalkeeper Scott Fox who is named in the Scotland squad for the friendlies against the United States and Norway.
When will this end?
Scottish football needs a strong Partick Thistle.
———————————
What, no Cammy Bell??? I’m sure the Record stated the Forfar home game was cancelled because of the many Gers men likely to be called up for their country and that included Bell. I am aghast that Bell’s recent stunning form, which has seen him deal efficiently with many passbacks and scratch his bahookie like he’s been doing it all his life, has been scandalously overlooked. Another snub for Scotland’s most successful team.
Greenock Jack,
I think the reason why people jumped on your “2 lines on Celtic” was the whataboutery angle coupled with the fact the implication you were making was patently false. I addressed that previously
As to your “previous 13 lines on the problems at Rangers” – You wrote the board should have taken steps to cut costs last season but didn’t. That was the spivs fault. Check, but why weren’t the fans asking the same questions we were on this blog. They were notable in their silence.
You wrote that we (who we? Sceptics? Everyone not of a blue-hue?) would be surprised how many of the support would understand and buy into a new model. Check, in that yes, I would be surprised as I have seen precious little evidence of this, especially if this new model is fiscal conservatism (ahem) as already Ally is asking for the pursestrings to be loosened. The understanding fans have been notable in their absence.
You mention this new model would have to “work” – what do you mean? Win trophies? Or put the club on a firm financial footing even if trophies weren’t forthcoming? I believe you answer that when you say “Is there a risk of supporters losing patience ? Of course.” Well we know how some ‘Gers fans reacted when their patience is tested (ref. Jumbo screen/Manchester). You might say they were notable in their violence.
So you mean success on the pitch, right? Surely this is a contradiction to the previous points? If they don’t have the money to spend responsibly how will they change this, especially in “reasonably quicktime”?
Your final point (ref DK’s investment levels needing to be at a level to be competitive short term AND to improve infrastrucutre), well seems to be that you need someone to pump some more financial steroids into the dying body in the hope it’ll jump up, click its heels and dance off in the sunset. Well NewGers haven’t managed to put themselves on “a sustainable level of income & expenditure firm” in the previous two years, despite burning cash, and as the stakes get raised you think this will happen? As you might say, I reserve the right to disagree.
If the present automatic SPFL title (this season and next) coupled with the “CL Champions qualifiers route’, in which you avoid the likes of Arsenal isn’t more straightforward then that is your opinion, I reserve the right to disagree. Isn’t more straightforward than what? The point I made earlier was that it’s actually harder now because the steroid bloated Rangers blew the windfall that two years direct entry in the group stages, much of it earned by WGS’s team’s heroics, should have earned Scotland’s representatives!
Or “more straightforward” than competing on an uneven playing field for over a decade.
The only reason may be more “straightforward” now is because Rangers were financially doped to the eyeballs for a decade whilst everyone else was running clean! Jeez Louise, THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT!!!
Heard MMs moonbeam about Sevco being a global brand .
I think I recall a certain Hugh Adams stating that this idea was tested quite a while back ,I think the old dead club sent a letter to every ST holder and asked them to submit a name of any Ragers fans they knew stayed abroad
The peepil in charge thought that there would be a big response as they assumed the vast majority of ST holders would know of at least one overseas fan .
I think he said they got 1,000 names (or there about’s ) and when they were contacted the majority of them did not even know they had been nominated .
Then again Hugh Adam was an old man with an axe to grind (said by the Ragers ) when he stated ,It broke his heart to sell his shares but he had no option as the way DM was running the club they would end up in administration ,so he was not too far off there (probably hoping for BEST case scenario).
Hi folks
This Armageddon thing is doing my head in .
A £20m investment into our top league ,sold on being able to watch games from iconic venues like .
Celtic Park , Fir park ,Easter Rd and Pittodrie
fergusslayedtheblues on November 4, 2013 at 5:35 pm
0 0 Rate This
Heard MMs moonbeam about Sevco being a global brand .
I think I recall a certain Hugh Adams stating that this idea was tested quite a while back ,I think the old dead club sent a letter to every ST holder and asked them to submit a name of any Ragers fans they knew stayed abroad
@####
They didn’t get the expected deluge of names because the recipients were too busy building the empire.
“If you lost an envelope in Glasgow this morning containing 2 passports, €400 and 2 tickets for Ajax-Celtic it’s at Stewart St Police Station”.
Genuine appeal. The owners of this envelope must be panic stricken.
Meanwhile in the outright utopia of the Sevco group of companies. “If you lost an envelope in Glasgow this morning containing 2 Citylink tickets to Arbroath, a fiver and 2 tickets for Arbroath v Sevco it’s at Stewart St Police Station”. The owners of this envelope would be somewhat less bothered.
The first one is a genuine appeal. The other isn’t.
Greenock Jack
I seldom contribute to forum but read it every day.
Whilst I don’t agree with you all the time I appreciate your contributions and I do understand the difficulty you face on forum as a Rangers fan.
The point I would like to make though is to consider the different reactions to the situations at Rangers, Hearts and Dunfermline.
This site has shown huge support to the survival attempts at both Hearts and Dunfermline. The same support has not been shown to Rangers. You may argue that is down to hatred of Rangers whilst I would argue it is down to Hatred of cheating.
That really was a concerning interview with MM.
I actually quite liked the guy previous, for me he seems a decent guy and a true Rangers fan. But it always concerns me when a real fan of the club plays up to the fans in this way, more concerning when it is an obviously successful and educated individual like MM.
To make those comments about the empire and “your lot” meaning Irish or “you were wearing a blue shirt” so therefore could be trusted…. truly concerning as it’s maybe a sign that this sense of entitlement comes straight from the top and if it never changes there, it will never change anywhere else.
Good blog by Paul McConville – no comment or endorsement from Jack Irvine yet 🙂
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/jack-irvine-and-me-how-one-tweet-can-be-misrepresented-a-case-study/
Madbhoy24941 says: (302)
November 4, 2013 at 6:15 pm
6 0 Rate This
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Well, to be honest, I’m one of those that wishes Celtic FC would emphasize the Scottish part of their identity a bit more and maybe fly a few more Saltires (is this when I’m supposed to put a tin hat on? 🙂 ), but those comments MM directed at Alan Brazil were the most disturbing thing in the whole interview. I’m not quite sure whether MM was trying to be funny (he failed, in that case) but he came across as rather patronising and dismissive towards AB. Dearie me, and here was me thinking he was an enlightened man.
Madbhoy24941 says:
November 4, 2013 at 6:15 pm
To make those comments about the empire and “your lot” meaning Irish or “you were wearing a blue shirt” so therefore could be trusted…. truly concerning as it’s maybe a sign that this sense of entitlement comes straight from the top and if it never changes there, it will never change anywhere else.
——–
I remember some SPL chairmen saying that one of the reasons for rejecting Sevco’s application (to join the league) was Murray’s arrogant attitude when presenting his case.
I have always been sceptical about the ‘global brand’ stuff, from both of the Glasgow clubs, indeed the turnover of each club barely points to anything approaching ‘global’, even with CL cash the turnover is somewhere south of an edge of town supermarket……..hardly ‘global’, albeit considerably north of any of their domestic competitors. I assume the white settler cultures of the Antipodes and the Americas are the population centres hosting the hoards of Celtic and Rangers fans desperate to throw cash homeward? But these cultures have their own sports and football still trails these….by some distance. I would be interested to know just how much revenue is raised from the global dimension to their businesses, anyone have any stats? Can the tic match the 500 million fans who are sharing in Sevco’s long march back to the top of Europes elite? 😀
Just listened to MM interview on talksport. Really no hope for change if that is the type of man involved in any way with the Govan team. The Irish throwaway comment is a disgrace (they cannot seem to be able to help themselves). Scots built the British empire and Irish immigrated for different reasons entirely. In fact he stated your type to Mr Brazil, who to be fair stated he was Scottish, to which MM stated your name Brazil can be traced back to Irish roots. WHY would he research that
We had the usual start great fans, world wide brand blah blah.
Pundits also stated need sevco back, it is all a complete sham and you know deep down talksport and English football pundits and fans really have no interest in what happens in Scotland, because if they did they might ask some relevant questions concerning the plight of Sevco As for the usual crap Scotland need them,ffs, Our game at the moment is doing fine and we do not need token interest from talk sport.. Report things correctly or not at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFloyd
I see sevco are selling the ‘poppy tops’ and some of the money will go to poppy Scotland.
Top costs £50 and a fiver goes to poppy Scotland.
No shame at all, talk about cashing in.
And the non poppy top retails at £44.99 so the fans are paying the extra fiver and the club loses nothing. Shameless.
arabest1 says: (398)
November 4, 2013 at 7:12 pm
I have always been sceptical about the ‘global brand’ stuff, from both of the Glasgow clubs, indeed the turnover of each club barely points to anything approaching ‘global’, even with CL cash the turnover is somewhere south of an edge of town supermarket……..hardly ‘global’, albeit considerably north of any of their domestic competitors. I assume the white settler cultures of the Antipodes and the Americas are the population centres hosting the hoards of Celtic and Rangers fans desperate to throw cash homeward? But these cultures have their own sports and football still trails these….by some distance. I would be interested to know just how much revenue is raised from the global dimension to their businesses, anyone have any stats? Can the tic match the 500 million fans who are sharing in Sevco’s long march back to the top of Europes elite?
———————-
I believe it could be overplayed sometimes Arabest.
However, I wouldn’t underestimate how much could be earned. I have travelled a lot on business and look for somewhere to watch the game when possible, in most cases, there are decent crowds. In 3 different states in The USA, I have walked into pubs at 7 in the morning to see a full house with a large percentage of the guys (and gals) wearing current replica tops. I don’t ask everyone but I know a few of them have bought direct online from the Celtic shop because they feel more of the money will go to the club and the postage is not expensive.
Another thing is that I have never been anywhere that did not have a place to watch the game, not always full with Celtic fans but always some there.
Malcolm Murray is pandering to the lowest common denominator and it is a sign of how desperate they (Murray group) are to reach out to the broad consensus of the Ibrox support. It is ill-judged remarks like these that serve to reinforce the ‘them and us’ mentality’ and WATP crap and there is no doubt it enhances the feeling among the ‘The Rangers’ support of being the victims in their predicament. The attitude of entitlement is endemic amongst the Ibrox support whether educated or not. I was disgusted at the way Malcolm Murray was scapegoated through the drunken video, courtesy of Mr Stockbridge, and showed the spivvery lengths those in blazers and brogues are prepared to go to, to manoeuvre a position in the boardroom. However, with these remarks Mr Murray has shown his true colours, not to mention his lack of class and quality.
What’s all this about Tel Butcher “agreeing personal terms” with Hibs, but Caley saying they’ve had no approach from anyone about him?
Something fishy there, either from Hibs or from the MSM.
Madbhoy24941 says: (302)
November 4, 2013 at 6:15 pm
8
0
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That really was a concerning interview with MM.
I actually quite liked the guy previous, for me he seems a decent guy and a true Rangers fan. But it always concerns me when a real fan of the club plays up to the fans in this way, more concerning when it is an obviously successful and educated individual like MM.
To make those comments about the empire and “your lot” meaning Irish or “you were wearing a blue shirt” so therefore could be trusted…. truly concerning as it’s maybe a sign that this sense of entitlement comes straight from the top and if it never changes there, it will never change anywhere else.
===========================================================================
Totally agree. I used to feel a wee bit sorry for this individual. That was due to him hiding his obvious bigotry
that leaked out during this interview!
Even the fact that he must have researched the roots of the “Brazil” surname I found shocking.
I worked beside a guy like this in the past. He seemed to go to enormous lengths to find out what foot people
kicked with. Sad, sad stuff.
The depressing thing is, there’s no way the MM stuff will be a one-off. He’s just let his guard down this time.
Thanks for the reply Madbhoy, and I would concur from my own anecdotal experience there are Irish bars containing Scots keen to watch Celtic/Rangers/Scottish Football……but these are anecdotes, how many replica tops do Celtic or Sevco/RFC actually sell outwith the British archipelago?
yakutsuki says: (117)
November 4, 2013 at 8:09 pm
————————————–
New twist to old song…
“There’s an awful lot of Irish in Brazil” ?
Malcolm Murray is an embarrassment to Sevco and to Scotland, frankly.
For those awaiting a statement from the SFA on the Pinset mason report and the links between Whyte and green, you can abandon your hopes:
Stewart Regan@StewartMRegan 46m
@Tim_Sellick I’m not sure what more there is to say. Already been covered in press. No evidence linking Green to Whyte.
Did we expect anything else? Trully repulsive level of collusion and corruption. The SFA are truly shameless.
I had no real idea who Malcolm Murray was prior to the Rangers debacle.
Having just listened to talksport, wow. What a clown.
Was this man the acceptable, reasoned face of Rangers?
I’m kind of speechless about the tail end of that interview after 10 mins in particularly when he starts talking about ‘your side of the fence’. I wouldn’t even go as far as saying Murray has read ‘How Scots invented the modern world’ and is regurgitating some of the book, as on the strength of this outing I doubt he reads or thinks much at all.
Re the Malcolm Murray comments. He wouldn’t make them if he knew the media in Scotland would call him out on it. They won’t though, and despite the advances of new media in recent years the mainstream media stance on these issues remains a significant barrier to truly moving on.
slimshady61 says: (288)
November 4, 2013 at 8:22 pm
———————————–
New twist to old song…
“There’s an awful lot of Irish in Brazil” ?
Malcolm Murray is an embarrassment to Sevco and to Scotland, frankly.
===================================================================
Slim, I would say Malcolm Murray and Sevco are an embarrassment to Scotland!
——————————
andypandimonium says: (6)
November 4, 2013 at 2:07 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m sure someone posted that there was footage of the incident that blew the charges out of the water. It was said that at the time of the citation the footage was unknown to the SFA & it would be interesting to see how they proceeded as it appeared to show the linesman man-handling the player as opposed to the Nadir throttling the official…!
Like you say AndyP, we need to keep on top of this.
Mr Lunny, can we have a word…
Blindsummit63 says: (66)
November 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm
For those awaiting a statement from the SFA on the Pinset mason report and the links between Whyte and green, you can abandon your hopes:
Stewart Regan@StewartMRegan 46m
@Tim_Sellick I’m not sure what more there is to say. Already been covered in press. No evidence linking Green to Whyte.
Did we expect anything else? Trully repulsive level of collusion and corruption. The SFA are truly shameless.
*************
looks like its one of those parody accounts – I got suckered in too!
valentinesclown says: (260)
November 4, 2013 at 7:21 pm
I’ve also just listened to the interview and was gobsmacked with “On your side of the fence…..” comment.
I wish Alan Brazil had asked what side of the fence was he referring to.
It’s like the man has just walked off the set of ‘To Kill a Mocking Bird’.
Truly shameful.
It was almost a parody of Rikki Fulton’s Scotch and Wry sketch all those years ago.
This is someone talking about a global brand yet alienating a substantial part of his own domestic market.
If this is how he is going to sell the global brand I can hardly wait for the merchandise……… NOT.
davythelotion says: (213)
November 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm
22 2 Rate This
I’m willing to to give MM the benefit of the doubt as far as accusations of being sectarian go, I think he was just trying to make the point (clumsily) there’s a lot of Celtic and Rangers fans abroad and that Celtic benefit from their Irish connections. The main thing I took from his words is that he’s completely wrong or even delusional about Rangers having a global fan base to speak of.
I live in England now, and have stayed in quite a few areas down here. There’s always at least a couple of places to watch Celtic games wherever I am….not so much the Rangers ones…unless they’re playing Celtic. Also, remember when chuckles went to Dubai and Australia, how how many turned up at each event, 75? 100?
Turnover figures of £19.1m from 38k season ticket holders does not suggest a large amount Money coming from abroad either. In fact it suggests they are having difficulty squeezing anything more than match day revenue from their fan base.
I have no intention of getting into politics as it is not the purpose of this forum. However people are talking about “immigrants” from Ireland and stuff like that.
I think we need to remember that the entire country was part of the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland until 1922. So anyone who moved between 1801 and then was not an immigrant. They were simply moving from one part of the UK to another.
People who were moved during the Highland clearances are not considered immigrants, neither are their descendants. What is the fundamental difference.
GreenockJack, just to be clear, my post was actually in your defence. It may not have read like that by the close but the point I was trying to make was that, personally, I welcome the blue hue here for reasoned, informed discussion and I disagree with projecting collective disgruntlement simply due to your persuasion.
causaludendi says: (60)
November 4, 2013 at 9:00 pm
——————————————
Wouldn’t worry about Ciftci.
He can just call on the Bougherra precedent from March 2011 which clearly permits manhandling match officials at any stage of a game, even after you’ve had a red card.
Bawsman says: (223)
November 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm
What’s best guess for the share price entering the New Year.
Many thanks in advance
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
My opinion is some variant of the following
There will be no AGM because there will be no RIFC Board to hold an AGM
Trading in RIFC shares will be suspended by New Year Any genuine Bears wanting out have a very limited time to sell their shares
TRFC are about to be liquidated
RIFC will apply for administration/liquidation shortly after liquidating TRFC
……………………….
None of the above will become public until after the lockin period expires
As soon as the lock in expires shares move from Spivs who want to cut and run to those with the nerve to face up to the Loonies for a few weeks
The share transfer gives the new Spivs sufficient control to pass any resolutions they need.
Between the lockin expiry date and Hogmanay they make their move
An announcement by RIFC is made that TRFC is going into Administration.
The Administrator announces that TRFC the “Club” and its history is up for sale .The “Club” is cashless with no assets
The TRFC debt to RIFC will be detailed in RIFC accounts that have never been filed at Companies House The accounts will be accepted “in good faith” by the friendly Administrator
Concurrently a plan will be in place to move ownership of the assets outside the UK
There are various ways of doing this. One method could be to claim the original IPO funds were borrowed from an offshre entity with the assets as security
This switcheroo will not be revealed until the last possible moment probably by the Administrator
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TRFC are liquidated
RIFC claim the assets
RIFC are then liquidated
The offshore entity claim the assets
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It will all be done through lawyers with nobody around as a focal point for angry bears
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No doubt some politicians will link saving TRFC to a Yes vote in 2014
The figures are announced for the China tv deal but not for the renegotiated SKY deal last summer. Why? My suspicion is the Sky deal was worth roughly the same as the previous deal when Rangers we’re still alive and if the figure were revealed it would contradict everything we were told about the survival of Scottish football.
And seeing the picture of a smug looking Doncaster, Salmond and Lawwell reminded me that there was only one club that went on record to commend Doncaster for all his hard work at the time. They’re all in it together.
GoosyGoosy on November 4, 2013 at 9:23 pm
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I’d have thought those looking for a YES might do well to leave the bastion of flag-waving uber Unionism to its fate.
Searching the name Murray on surnamedb.com made me smile.
Well done to the people who negotiated the deal with the broadcasters in China.
£2m a year for 10 years, £20m income generated for Scottish football is a quality bit of work. If it can also lead to a higher profile in that market and potentially even more income for our game then even better.
Well done.
arabest1 says: (399)
November 4, 2013 at 8:18 pm
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I have no idea how many tops are sold overseas, maybe not as much as we would like to believe and in Asia they had problems with conterfeit goods. In saying that, it’s not just about the strips, there is so much more to tap into in terms of sponsership and tours.
There is a market outside of Scotland and The UK and Ireland as a whole, I used to think it was just the holiday destinations that sold Scottish replica shirts but just last month I saw a rack of Celtic shirts in REAL (large German supermarket chain), not bad for the far north where the favoured sport is handball.
If you also consider the amount of fans who bought tickets in The US for pre-season tours and the interest from China, Korea, Japan & Australia when those countries were represented in the team, I can see why this could be a lucrative revenue stream.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says: (1011)
November 4, 2013 at 1:49 pm
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Plan to live within its means:
1. Put up season ticket prices drastically. +40% hike. Alot of the bears will walk away. Some will stay. Be up front about this, becuase you need to …
2. Shut half of Ibrox. No one gets their own seat back. Put those that paid alot of money in the best parts of the stadium with the best views and build an atmosphere. Close off the bits that aren’t adding value. This will save match day costs: No stewarding, no policing/ security costs, no catering costs etc. It will also ensure that demand for season tickets outstrips supply by keeping supply artificially low. This will keep prices high and maximise value.
The effect of 1 +2 will be to maintain as much income while reducing as many costs as possible.
3. After season tickets have sold out, open a small economy section on a walk up basis. If this sells out, open another one. But the intention would be to always try to keep prices up by ensuring that there is always slightly more demand than supply.
4. Launch an appeal to raise funds to pay for stadium improvements. No club capital will be invested in ground improvements. This money must come from the fans. Without it – some stands will stay shut.
5. Closing half the stadium will lead to layoffs and cost savings.
6. Terminate the contracts of first team players and management team. Invest in youth development. Sign the best youngsters on very long term contracts. Sell the best on. Keep the good and build the backbone of a squad. Send the duds out on loan with a view to shifting them off the books.
A couple of seasons in, things will either start to be turning round or the club will have descended to the point where it can go under without a whimper – let alone riots – or adjust to life in the lower leagues.
This approach allows the club to live withing its means, and either build sustainably back towards the top flight over a moderate period if enough of the fans buy in, or to effectively downsize for life in the lower leagues if they do not.
Tell them this, and let them choose their future!