Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-fan-banned-football-two-2683075
Link to Daily Record article ^
Lord Wobbly says: (960)
November 6, 2013 at 6:46 pm
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Bill1903 says: (13)
November 6, 2013 at 6:20 pm
1 0 Rate This
”The match was the first meeting of the two teams since Rangers were liquidated and reformed to join the bottom tier of Scottish football.
The kick-off was delayed as supporters set off flares and smoke bombs and damaged seats in the stands.”
——————————————————–
Unusually near the truth from today daily record
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noticed their back page today, for a change celtic story began with “Lenny…….” and sevco started “McCoist”, maybe a change occuring? Also noted Scum back page headline also refer to “Lenny”
FAO Darryl Broadfoot :
http://i.imgur.com/wFs3lU4.jpg
Want to think again about asking for the full report from RIFC? Maybe at the same time asking about Interpol-wanted financiers? Fit and proper?
They played you as a fool and had you making weasel-worded statements to cover your ass.
This ain’t “Don’t ask, don’t tell” time.
The SFA have been misled and Scottish Football needs them to do their job.
Shocking bias by the BBC text commentary website tonight.
A few minutes to kick off and every single entry concerns a couple of teams at the diddy end of some European league group.
Meanwhile, the top of the table Scottish domestic league clash hasn’t even been mentioned yet! They’ve even had a chap called Arthur Numan commenting on the diddy game and not even mentioning his previous team!
😉
Barcabhoy @ 3:55pm
there is a repeating pattern on here with regards to Greenockjack. Ask him straightforward , but leading , questions about David Murray , and he disappears like snow off of a dyke . I wonder why that is , and I wonder why despite his claims of being critical of Murray there is no evidence to support this, at least none i’ve seen.
I’m off to the Barca game, but if he does turn up maybe someone could get him to answer the questions I posed at 9.49 am today
“The overwhelming majority of comment on Murray on fan sites see him as the following
A cheat
A tax evader
An ego maniac
A liar
A blowhard
The worst thing to ever happen to Rangers
A toxic effect on Scottish football
It would be interesting to hear your simple agree or disagree to each of the above”
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I haven’t quite got to the stage of arranging my timetable around any of your questions. Allow me to defend myself before stating my opinion on SDM.
If you haven’t seen any of my thoughts on SDM on here that is not my fault. Your first paragraph is misleading, including the brash ‘there is no evidence to support this’. At the end comes a gentle caveat that is comparative to ‘the small print’ when reading what came before.
Someone else asked me on SDM late last night but my timetable also includes getting some sleep. The poster ‘Causaludendi’ @ 12:29am kindly decided to inform the questioner of what I had previously posted about SDM. This was from his own recollection of my posts on Murray. I’ll save you the bother of looking it up and will c&p the post below.
“I’ll take this one Jackie boy, (take a wee bit heat off him cos the puir wee bugger does get it pretty tight!!)
Jack is on the record as saying that Minty should be shouldering a larger chunk of the blame. And that the club would never have plumbed such depths had the moonbeam meastro not splashed OPM with such wild, reckless, carefree abandon.
I believe he also stated (correct me if I’m wrong) that fresh-breathed one should face charges should it be proven he was involved in criminal activity.”
To represent ‘Causaludendi’ fairly, he later posted the following at 12:33am
“I’d like to add, quite categorically, that I do not know GJ, endorse his views nor share them (that I know of!).”
Barca, don’t you follow the blog comprehensively or perhaps it’s just my posts. If either were to be the case then you really shouldn’t be making such misleading and categoric statements as you did in your first paragraph.
Another possibility is ‘wilfull blindness’.
I make this point with a degree of emphasis for two reasons.
This blog often calls the MSM out for using misleading language to attack/defend an individual/club and in many cases I’d agree, unfortunately it’s just what a high percentage of the MSM do. This blog should aspire to be better.
The other reason is that I get enough criticism and I’m not going to take what I regard as blatant spin, without comment.
Onto SDM
I agree with pretty much the whole list, putting emphasis on ‘liar’, ‘WTTEHTR” and ‘TEOSF’.
Greenock Jack says: (162)
November 6, 2013 at 7:52 pm
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Barcabhoy @ 3:55pm
____________________________________________
You led with your chin there Barca! “-)
Great sparring guys!
Greenock Jack on November 6, 2013 at 7:52 pm
Nice one, barca was showboating a bit. A bit strange that another poster had already been to the rescue right enough but fortune can favour the brave, they say.
Im not sure what the value is in getting at Mr D Murray. He’s well and truly busted and once the succulent lamb and Sir Cardigan mob shuffle off the stage, the record will be corrected-assuming HMRC or the procurator don’t expedite that. At the moment though a lot of people are in denial.
Im more intersted in why squirrels suddenly appear every time you are near! Especially squirrels in hoops. Especially when more Sevco sleaze oozes forth. Like with Mr Murray, time will tell.
Personally, I reckon Mr Jack does very well to put up with a lot of provocation here without hitting out. As a “neutral”, I’ve not often seen him post blatant nonsense – particularly not recently.
Certainly his blue-tinted view of the world is absolutely no worse than some green-tinted views around these parts.
Angus1983 says: (1219)
November 6, 2013 at 9:04 pm
11 0 Rate This
Personally, I reckon Mr Jack does very well to put up with a lot of provocation here without hitting
out. As a “neutral”, I’ve not often seen him post blatant nonsense – particularly not recently.
Certainly his blue-tinted view of the world is absolutely no worse than some green-tinted views around these parts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s the same thing that we saw with Adam on RTC. Yes, at times, Adam talked a lot of p!sh, but he also talked a lot of sense. The same is true of Greenock Jack. The same is true of Barca. The same is true of Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
Whisper it, but other clubs fans have a similar ratio of fact and fiction (no apologies for referencing my Avatar)
I might be alone in being consistantly brilliantly accurate with my summarisations.
What?
😉
scapaflow says:
======================
I think I’m right in saying that Ally McCoist owns 1,000,000 shares.
If they are currently trading at 48p, then their market value is £480,000.
That’s for a £10,000 “investment” (if he even paid that.)
How dare you accuse a man who made a 470% profit, for absolutely no input, of “spivery”.
To be fair that’s not really true. He got it for helping con the fans into buying season tickets and shares.
That’s not “spivery”, it’s more like “profiteering”.
Pretty insipid display from CFC tonight. Samaras(captain),Commons,Forrest completely anonymous /passengers.Frustrating to say the least.I will be hoarse at the next CL game I’m sure.
Tif Finn says:
November 6, 2013 at 9:51 pm
How dare you accuse a man who made a 470% profit, for absolutely no input, of “spivery”.
——
It’s actually a 4700% profit!!!
More power to you Greenock Jack.
I don’t always agree with you, but I vehemently believe in your right to state your point, on here.
Too much playing of the man, not ball, at times.
Lord Wobbly says: (961)
November 6, 2013 at 9:32 pm
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________________________________
I’d like to thank both Barca and Jack for making the blog an enjoyable and thought provoking hang out. Barca doesn’t need me to tell him how valuable and erudite his contribution is. But I am happy to go on the record and say so.
I am delighted to have GJ here too, because while my sympathies for the Ibrox clumpany’s self inflicted predicament are extremely limited, we all share a commonality as fans, there is a sense that ‘there but for the grace of god go I’, and because there are decent bears out there we need to engage with, and most of all – because of the perspective he brings, the way he challenges – sometimes naively and sometime less so – what many of us have come to accept as fact. This stops us falling into the same manner of complacent certainty of ourselves and our ‘self evident’ views that led to his erstwhile clubs undoing.
Its healthy to be respectfully disagreed with. This is not a message that we should proslytize at the bears in their hours of darkness unless we are prepared to heed it ourselves.
Squiggle says:
November 6, 2013 at 8:45 pm
Greenock Jack on November 6, 2013 at 7:52 pm
Nice one, barca was showboating a bit. A bit strange that another poster had already been to the rescue right enough but fortune can favour the brave, they say.
Im not sure what the value is in getting at Mr D Murray. He’s well and truly busted and once the succulent lamb and Sir Cardigan mob shuffle off the stage, the record will be corrected-assuming HMRC or the procurator don’t expedite that. At the moment though a lot of people are in denial.
Im more intersted in why squirrels suddenly appear every time you are near! Especially squirrels in hoops. Especially when more Sevco sleaze oozes forth. Like with Mr Murray, time will tell.
==============================================
Actually, GJ hasn’t answered anything, apart from agreeing that Murray is a liar! Then he shouted a few letters!
The value at getting at Murray is because he is the central figure who started this Pantomime. Topically, he’s just like the guy who walked into a Mosque wearing jeans and sneaked out the back door in a Burka never to be seen again.
And don’t give me the tosh that he’s a busted flush. He can still afford Succulent Lamb, and employ a Chef to cook it for him! He won’t go short, unlike the poor rangers supporters who bought shares in Sevco.
He has a lot to answer for. The Tax Payer for one!
His whole empire was based on debt and borrowing. The credit crunch showed him up for what he was – A Chancer! His answers during the Big Tax Tribunal should have been given more MSM scrutiny, but sadly weren’t. He was exposed then with his blustering justifications. Thank goodness for Dr Heidi Poon who saw through his Bulls$£t.
IMO, RFC died long before Whyte paid his quid to Murray.
Murray is always in the background, but seems to have invented a human coat of Teflon!
As for McCoist, if he is going to make over £400,000 for a £10,000 stake, Wow!
Spiv – “Here Ally, for every quid you give us, we’ll give you £40 back. How does that sound?”
AM – “Great, where do I sign? Do the Bears get the same deal?”
Spiv – “Naw, for every quid they give us, we’ll give them 64 pence back”
AM – “Aw! that’s not fair, but they are Bears. They’ll understand that they’re keeping the club alive. Now, where’s that pen?”
‘Ally McCoist welcomes AGM announcement and says end to Rangers’ boardroom battles would be perfect Christmas gift.’ The DR story today on Ally’s Xmas wish..
An ability to stop the continual slip of the cheekie chappy persona ? A club with the continuity of a 140 year plus or a Scottish Premiership League title under his management ? European football, a list of every panel member ever, a workable tax avoidance scheme, a war chest loaded with booty to buy his choice of Barca and Real players to give him a small chance in the Scottish Championship…..nah, just peace in the boardroom.
See, Ally just wants peace at Christmas.
I think a ‘little’ boy is going to be dissapointed on Christmas morning..Al, maybe just ask Santa for Football Manager for the Xbox.
BigGav says:
——————
Indeed, you are of course correct.
He got 470 times his money back as profit, which is 4,700%.
Thanks for that.
Still more profiteering than spivery though, as he got it for conning the Rangers fans into buying season tickets and shares.
How much did Walter Smith get for doing exactly the same thing. Did the legendary manager get as much for shafting the people who proclaimed him a legend as the legendary player.
Tif Finn says:
November 6, 2013 at 10:47 pm
He got 470 times his money back as profit, which is 4,700%.
—–
Not quite – he got 47 times his money back, which is 4,700% ❗
toby says: (81)
November 6, 2013 at 10:29 pm
2 0 Rate This
‘Ally McCoist welcomes AGM announcement and says end to Rangers’ boardroom battles would be perfect Christmas gift.’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A perfect Christmas gift?
How about a break out of common sense?
Q) What is the current status of Rangers FC?
A) Liquidated
Q) What is the current status of The Rangers FC?
A) Struggling but saveable
Q) How can The Rangers FC be saved?
A) Simple. Cut costs so that you become sustainable in the short to medium, and ultimately, long term.
Q) But what about European competition?
A) In the short to medium term? Forget it. Start to build for the future on a sustainable footing and perhaps one day you’ll get there.
Q) One day?
A) What’s wrong with that?
fergussingstheblues says: (75)
November 6, 2013 at 10:25 pm
‘..The value at getting at Murray is because he is the central figure who started this Pantomime..’
———-
A good reminder of what this blog ( and we have to keep reminding ourselves!) is about:
large scale cheatery in our football by one club and its majority shareholder, condoned and aided by people in the SFA, and supported by mealy-mouthed hacks and their apparently ‘little secrets’ editors scared of being blackmailed by slimy toad PR ‘gurus’.
Whether or not a financially challenged new club run buy the spiv successors of people like SDM actually goes into Administration and/or out of business , is a secondary question for us.( Unless it is actually possible for the Courts to annul the sale of the assets to CG, and get us back to the situation where the creditors can get access to the assets! And for certain Administrators to go to jail)
Let’s get the baddies in office out of office, and get some honest men to deal with problems presented by the new club.
And let’s exult when the UTTT overturns the first Tier Tribunal’s perverted decision. On that day the spiv of spivs will be seen to have been exactly that.
And we may smile when Hector starts on the individuals who have not paid tax on their EBTs.
As for the current crop of hoodlums and barra-boys at Ibrox ( or who want to be at Ibrox) they are a problem for fans of the new club.
Who still seem not to care about the fact that they are again being right loyally shafted fore and aft.
Tif Finn says: (703)
November 6, 2013 at 10:47 pm
3 0 Rate This
BigGav says:
——————
Indeed, you are of course correct.
He got 470 times his money back as profit, which is 4,700%.
Thanks for that.
Still more profiteering than spivery though, as he got it for conning the Rangers fans into buying season tickets and shares.
How much did Walter Smith get for doing exactly the same thing. Did the legendary manager get as much for shafting the people who proclaimed him a legend as the legendary player.
========================
Assuming ally mccoist is not too locked in if he sold he would have to declare a capital gain on that and pay the tax!
If he holds on to the shares until they become worthless… then he can write off the 10k investment against other capital gains.
Buddy
Tif Finn says:
November 6, 2013 at 10:47 pm
BigGav says:
——————
Indeed, you are of course correct.
He got 470 times his money back as profit, which is 4,700%.
Thanks for that.
Still more profiteering than spivery though, as he got it for conning the Rangers fans into buying season tickets and shares.
How much did Walter Smith get for doing exactly the same thing. Did the legendary manager get as much for shafting the people who proclaimed him a legend as the legendary player.
==============================================================
Great post TF,
Hopefully, RFC Supporters are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee!
There are still more questions than answers!
Rangers Men? Legends?
Aye right! The only thing they worship is the Queen’s Head on a £10 note (lots of £10 notes!)
That Club is a basket case, taking the mickey out of gullable supporters and playing mind games with them at the same time.
Hopefully the full story will come out in time?
buddy_holly says: (20)
November 6, 2013 at 11:04 pm
———————————————
Hmm, I’m not so sure about capital gains tax – that can wait.
If I were an inspector of taxes I would say these shares of Mr McCoist are in fact employee related securities and as such potentially chargeable to income tax based on their value at issue less whatever McCoist paid for the shares (£nil?) and that tax is payable on 31 January next.
Now Mr McCoist’s adviser may advance an argument that the shares were virtually worthless when issued but that flies in the face of many pronouncements by the CEO at and before that time as to the value of the club and its assets.
Whilst I might not go as far as the 71p per share they reached at the time of the IPO, I would certainly say 1p is way too low as a value. With my valuation hat on, I would certainly say anything below 20p is a nonsense – would and could argue for 40p or thereabouts but maybe settle in the mid-30s.
So Mr McCoist ought in my opinion to be looking at an income tax charge of circa £150-160K in January; is this really the best time to be taking a pay cut? Maybe he’s taking a pay cut in return for the company paying his personal tax bill. That would be a first, and a clear sign that this Rangers cannot possible be connected in any way to the old, tax-dodging Rangers, not only paying its own taxes but those of its employees.
54 (p) to 34 (p)
fergussingstheblues on November 6, 2013 at 10:25 pm
Ok. Mr Murray is very much a busted flush in that most of us in society now see him for what he is. Some are in denial.
Some of us hate him and what he did to scottish football as powerfully today as ever. The fact is, he started to corrode and wrot the values of our game a long time before a porn star showed him how to cheat the taxman, a long long time. Go right the way back to Souness. Thats how far back some have carried this and seen it coming. Too many allowed it to happen for it to be in good taste to try for his scalp now, when its all pretty much out there.
What are we to do? A bank, a lawlord or two, the footballing authorities, the media and press, all the other clubs have let him skulk off with the swag, oh and a knighthood. And, now his old mate at the SFA will ensure that the establishment club makes it back to the top. I’d suggest there is nothing we can do. He is a busted flush, as is his sequal. All we are really waiting for is to see who will be the one to make fans of the Ibrox club believe one more time. Thats the plan.
BigGav says:
========================
Oh for Heaven’s sake, a chap has had a few drinks whilst watching the football.
Do you then expect numerical accuracy. What’s a few zeroes between friends.
Can we stick with this – Ally McCoist got 1,000,000 shares for £10,000. They now have a market value of around £480,000. This was in effect a payment for convincing the Rangers fans to give millions of pounds to the people who were shafting them. Said shafting would have had no chance of success without Mr McCoist’s endorsement.
Does that about cover it. He helped people con millions out of the Rangers’ support and in return got a massively over-inflated wage and the best part of half a million pounds of shares in a property company.
ratethisthenyabampots says: (89)
November 6, 2013 at 3:42 pm
12 2 Rate This
Reilly1926 says: (176)
November 6, 2013 at 1:21 pm
The sales pitch to the early investors appears to have been “buy one for 99p and get another for 1p
——————————————————————-
The sales pitch was more likely to be closer to this 2 furra pownda offer
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/981838/sports_socks_salesman/
=============================
One of my favourite chewing the fat sketches….
And the unreleased dot.com version ……
………………
TWO-FOR-A-POUND, TWO-FOR-A-POUND, see us online at TWO-FOR-A-POUND.COM
Buddy
Lord Wobbly says: (962)
November 6, 2013 at 11:03 pm
2 0 Rate This
A perfect Christmas gift?
How about a break out of common sense?
———-
Nail on the head, M’Lud- common sense is, unfortunately, a commodity last seen at Ibrox, oooh, when…never !
A manager drawing nearly a million from a club in the 3rd tier of Scottish. A squad built on millions the club can’t afford. Directors drawing hundreds of thousands, the club riven with in fighting, mystery investors. The clubs assets under debate as to who holds the keys. One AGM, stormy or otherwise is not going to settle anything. The mess that is TRFC is not going to be resolved even in a lock-in AGM that would see Santa drop through the lum a week later. The damage is effectively done. The spivs have already won. There just needs to be serious cash and Santa doesn’t do those kind of credit deals.
Tif Finn says:
November 6, 2013 at 11:27 pm
——
Yes, that about covers it!
Sorry for distracting from your main point.
slimshady61 says: (291)
November 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm
2 0 Rate This
buddy_holly says: (20)
November 6, 2013 at 11:04 pm
———————————————
Hmm, I’m not so sure about capital gains tax – that can wait.
If I were an inspector of taxes I would say these shares of Mr McCoist are in fact employee related securities and as such potentially chargeable to income tax based on their value at issue less whatever McCoist paid for the shares (£nil?) and that tax is payable on 31 January next.
Now Mr McCoist’s adviser may advance an argument that the shares were virtually worthless when issued but that flies in the face of many pronouncements by the CEO at and before that time as to the value of the club and its assets.
Whilst I might not go as far as the 71p per share they reached at the time of the IPO, I would certainly say 1p is way too low as a value. With my valuation hat on, I would certainly say anything below 20p is a nonsense – would and could argue for 40p or thereabouts but maybe settle in the mid-30s.
So Mr McCoist ought in my opinion to be looking at an income tax charge of circa £150-160K in January; is this really the best time to be taking a pay cut? Maybe he’s taking a pay cut in return for the company paying his personal tax bill. That would be a first, and a clear sign that this Rangers cannot possible be connected in any way to the old, tax-dodging Rangers, not only paying its own taxes but those of its employees.
54 (p) to 34 (p)
============================
I salute your tax knowledge…….. top answer, well outside my knowledge!!
Does that the tax position crystalizes at january 31 before the descent into oblivion for RIFC and you may have to pay tax on your investment which has value at this point but may not survive all that much longer……
So you could owe tax in some form ons hares which are now worthless…. ?
Buddy
—–
PS: edit for typos
john clarke says: (1330)
November 6, 2013 at 11:03 pm
7 0 Rate This
fergussingstheblues says: (75)
November 6, 2013 at 10:25 pm
‘..The value at getting at Murray is because he is the central figure who started this Pantomime..’
———-
A good reminder of what this blog ( and we have to keep reminding ourselves!) is about:
large scale cheatery in our football by one club and its majority shareholder, condoned and aided by people in the SFA, and supported by mealy-mouthed hacks and their apparently ‘little secrets’ editors scared of being blackmailed by slimy toad PR ‘gurus’.
————————-
Precisely why Murray needs brought to account. It is disgraceful that we still have Ogilvie in charge of the SFA. Rangers having been found guilty of the wee tax case ( discounted option scheme) and Campbell Ogilvie playing a central role in the administration of this , shows the contempt the SFA have for self regulation .
Murray should already have been banned for life based on the Wee Tax case, and the LNS report . It should be unthinkable that should the UTT find Murray Group guilty, and the Aberdeen Asset decision makes that overwhelmingly likely, that Murray is not dealt with by the SFA
Scottish football needs healed, first of all it needs cleansed. Cleansing starts by getting rid of the toxic. Which is why I pressed GJ , not to showboat ( ludicrous comment ) , but to try and achieve some common ground . Only when there is common ground can we move forward.
so based on who was able to get only 1p shares.
The real SEVCO CABAL those who cannot lose until suspension of the shares are…..
Charles Green
Imran Ahmed
Richard Hughes
Alistair McCoist
Two of the above (CG & IA) are legging it with the swag , after ensuring they are not locked in by making statements to get themselves sacked from RIFC board.
Not sure about Richard Hughes.
What odds Alistair Mccoist, doing walking away on any basis ,….. will need to ask a bookmaker for odds!
——such as the absence of a CEO about New YEar
——another job somewhere else.
——-health issues
——- family issues
Buddy
PS: edit more typos
Squiggle says: (111)
November 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm
‘…And, now his old mate at the SFA will ensure that the establishment club makes it back to the top. I’d suggest there is nothing we can do. He is a busted flush, as is his sequal.’
——–
a) the establishment club cannot make it back to the top. It died.
b) we don’t do walking away. We will force the baddies out, sooner or later.
Squiggle says:
November 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm
fergussingstheblues on November 6, 2013 at 10:25 pm
What are we to do? A bank, a lawlord or two, the footballing authorities, the media and press, all the other clubs have let him skulk off with the swag, oh and a knighthood. And, now his old mate at the SFA will ensure that the establishment club makes it back to the top.
=====================================================
We do what we’re doing now squiggle. We keep hounding them!
The blog may not exactly spur the relevant authorites into action, but it at least gives us a platform to give a public opinion to name and shame the wrongdoings in this sorry saga.
Public opinion always resonates back up the social ladder and scares the hell out of the people you described above. e.g.
Banks – Enough said! Already comprimised by RBS shenanigans.
Law Lords – They were embarrassing, I certainly see them in a different light now through this blog and previously RTC’s.
SFA/ SPL/SPFL/ SFL – They have all been totally exposed over the last 2 years as inept.
SMSM – Do I need to go there? I can’t remember the last time I bought any paper?
Knighthood – Knighthood’s can be stripped. Murrays old pal at RBS is now just called Fred.
Old pals act’s – Yup, CO is still in the background with the SFA, but the public are prying more into his role. Same as the public are beginning to wise up to the MSM agenda’s of certain “Journalist’s”
Let’s not forget Alex Salmond himself was involved early on with RFC’s demise. He’s suddenly gone quite all of a sudden? Maybe Public Opinion has affected him as well?
As I said, all we can do is keep on digging and asking questions. 2013 is not like 1985. We’re not brainwashed anymore, and can actually ask questions, especially with our new friend, Mr Google!
Barcabhoy says: (267)
November 6, 2013 at 11:48 pm
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0
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_______________________________
Precisely why Murray needs brought to account. It is disgraceful that we still have Ogilvie in charge of the SFA.
________________________________
Greenock Jack…… Do you agree?
Without in any way seeking to constrain you, a Yes/No answer, followed by commentary would be welcomed. (And a useful line of intelligent enquiry in my opinion.)
Genuinely interested… not trying to bounce you into a Y/N… just want to hear what you think about this situation and how much you have considered it thus far.
slimshady61 says: (291)
November 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm
‘….. Maybe he’s taking a pay cut in return for the company paying his personal tax bill. ..’
——
Slimshady, not doubting you for a moment, but just expressing my surprise at the idea that somebody else can pay one’s tax.
How does such a gift of money related to one’s employment not itself be taxable as part of one’s remuneration from employment?
If Ally has to pay tax on his salary, and I give him his salary AND the amount he would have to pay in tax, would he not have to pay tax on that extra amount I gave him???
What am I missing?
John Clarke @12.16am. To answer your question of paying anothers income tax, I would say tax would be deducted as per usual from the gross, the amount paid in tax would suddenly appear in a brown envelope in their coat pocket on the way out the door.
john clarke says: (1332)
November 7, 2013 at 12:16 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You’re not missing anything. The club would have to pay a gross amount which after PAYE would leave him with the amount of the tax liability due on the cheap shares.
Tif Finn says: (704)
November 6, 2013 at 11:27 pm
‘….Ally McCoist got 1,000,000 shares for £10,000. They now have a market value of around £480,000. … He helped people con millions out of the Rangers’ support and in return got a massively over-inflated wage and the best part of half a million pounds of shares in a property company…’
————–
And he knows it.
The evidence of his sleekit, deceitful nature was there for all to see ( but only the manager of another football club, heard) in the clip showing him like some viper whispering poison into a fellow manager’s ear.
The cheeky chappie , ‘flirt with Sue’, ‘Question of Sport’ personality was exposed as a devious guttersnipe of a hoodlum, with not an ounce of professionalism, not a scrap of personal dignity, not a hint of personal responsibility.
And he has since betrayed his own ‘peepil’ by making a nice wee personal fortune by conning them out of their honestly earned shekels.
The man should go hang as a disgraceful specimen of humanity.
GeronimosCadillac says: (39)
November 7, 2013 at 12:34 am
‘..The club would have to pay a gross amount which after PAYE…’
—
Got it. Thank you.
Shows you how ignorant I am of these things!
toby says: (82)
November 6, 2013 at 10:29 pm
…
I think a ‘little’ boy is going to be disappointed on Christmas morning…Al, maybe just ask Santa for Football Manager for the Xbox.
==================
Aye, but he will also be demanding that Santa gives him the ‘Football Manager’ cheats. 🙄
…well how else is his club going to get to the top of the league ?!
And if the cheats aren’t forthcoming immediately, McCoist will threaten to ruin the day for children everywhere by demanding that TRFC fans have a right to know the identity of this ‘Santa’…
‘Both clubs had recently experienced the trauma of administration and were both regarded as probably the two strongest sides in the third tier.’
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rangers-3-1-dunfermline-gers-see-off-pars-1-3177308
Note to Lisa Gray. You need to familiarise yourself with the facts.
RNS:
Appointment of Director
Thu, 7th Nov 2013 07:01
RNS Number : 4069S
Rangers Int. Football Club PLC
07 November 2013
?
07 November 2013
Rangers International Football Club plc
(“Rangers”, the “Company” or “Club”)
Appointment of Director
The Board of Rangers announces that it has appointed David Somers as an independent non-executive director and acting Chairman. Mr Somers is an Honours Economic Studies graduate and a qualified accountant (Fellow of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants). He spent all his career in Fund Management and in addition has considerable experience in matters of corporate governance. Mr Somers will oversee the current process of appointing a high calibre Chief Executive Officer and further independent non-executive director(s) to form a unified board and provide stability for Rangers. In order to allow time for the process outlined above to be progressed, the Company will hold its Annual General Meeting (“AGM”) on Thursday 19 December 2013 at Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD.
Mr Somers will, in accordance with Rangers’ Articles of Association, be subject to re-appointment by an ordinary resolution of the shareholders at the AGM.
Mr Somers is currently a Non Executive Director of ACE Europe Life, part of the ACE Group of insurance and reinsurance companies; Non-Executive Director and Chairman of Audit & Risk Committee of Europe Arab Bank; Independent Trustee & Chairman of the Investment Sub Committee at Fujitsu Technologies International Pension Plan and, Chairman of the Investment Committee at TCF Investment Managers Ltd.
Further information concerning Mr David Somers, aged 65:
Current Partnerships and Directorships:
Ace Europe Life Ltd
Europe Arab Bank plc
FRS Pension Trustee Company
TCF Investments Limited
Past Directorships and other positions:
Chairman, Shepherds Friendly Society Ltd
Chairman, Shepherds Network Ltd
Chairman of Trustees, Doosan Babcock Energy Pension Fund
Director, Doosan Power Systems Pension Trustee Company Limited
Chairman of the Audit Committee, Commission for Racial Equality
Governor and Chairman of Audit Committee, Hadlow Agricultural College
Director, Allenbridgeepic Investment Advisers Limited
Mr Somers is not currently beneficially interested in the issued share capital of the Company.
There is no further information required relating to Mr Somers to be disclosed under paragraph (g) of Schedule 2 of the AIM Rules.
For further information please contact:
Rangers International Football Club plc
Brian Stockbridge
James Easdale
Tel: 0141 580 8647
Daniel Stewart & Company plc
Tel: 020 7776 6550
Paul Shackleton / James Thomas
Newgate Threadneedle
Tel: 020 7148 6143
Graham Herring / Roddy Watt / John Coles
Media House International Ltd
Tel: 020 7710 0020
Jack Irvine
Mob: 07860 457 456
This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange
END
Seems it’s the 19th!
Annual General Meeting
Thu, 7th Nov 2013 07:00
RNS Number : 4068S
Rangers Int. Football Club PLC
07 November 2013
?
07 November 2013
Rangers International Football Club plc
(“Rangers”, the “Company” or “Club”)
Notice of Annual General Meeting
The Company announces that its Annual General Meeting (“AGM”) will be held at 10:30am on Thursday 19 December 2013 at Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD.
Lord Wobbly @ 1.53 am
Yes Lisa keep up, not a good idea to print what you hear ally spouting before a game 😆 and his interview after the game was kinda garbled too 😉 I think maybe his mind was on other scores in a league a million miles from sevco’s 😀 😀
New director TSFM timetable
7am announcement to stock exchange
7.30 am – never heard of him cries go up
12.30pm. – some bright spark on here says, didn’t he have something to do with……….
3pm – full links to others in the story laid bare
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says: (1112)
November 7, 2013 at 7:27 am
1 0 Rate This
————
So they are appointing someone to take on the task of, er … appointing someone? Did the idea come from an old episode of ‘Yes Minister’?
Danish Pastry says: (1642)
November 7, 2013 at 8:08
==============================
LOL! That comment has cheered me up after such a wretched performance from my team in the Champions League last night.
Mr Somers will oversee the current process of appointing a high calibre Chief Executive Officer
and further independent non-executive director(s)
to form a unified board and provide stability for Rangers.
In order to allow time for the process outlined above to be progressed,
the Company will hold its Annual General Meeting (“AGM”) on Thursday 19 December 2013 at Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow G51 2XD.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
From the RIFC statement, the section above uses these words:
” high calibre ”
” unified ”
” stability ”
On planet fitba’, are these words usually associated with RIFC/TRFC ? No.
Conclusion – statement is the usual fantasy, this time, ‘there’s a steady hand on the tiller’, designed to restore the loyalty and confidence of the anxious mugs
(Edit) – and justify the late AGM.
No change then, the Spivs are still on course.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says: (1112)
November 7, 2013 at 7:27 am
————————————————
Although he holds many posts, David Somers is principally known in the City for being NED and Chairman of the Audit Committee of Europe Arab Bank plc.
I think that tells you where the appointment has originated from….. Rangers fans need to be told who is behind the Blue Pitch and Margarita outfits as soon as possible.
All we are waiting for now is him telling some poodle what his first Rangers game was and how many decades he’s held a season ticket for……
54 (non-exec roles) to 0
So … how did the fans in Amsterdam get on with their delegated responsibility of upholding “the reputation of Scottish football” in Europe last night, then?
manandboy says: (323)
November 7, 2013 at 8:21 am
3 0 Rate This
———–
That’s funny, because using Googley Eyes translator it came out simply as ‘Delay, delay, delay.’
Having some problems with the mail function at the moment, so messages are not getting through.
We will try to resolve asap. Meantime, contact us at tsfm@tsfm.org.uk
Angus1983 says: (1220)
November 7, 2013 at 8:44 am
So … how did the fans in Amsterdam get on with their delegated responsibility of upholding “the reputation of Scottish football” in Europe last night, then?
———–
I’m sure that was a rhetorical question Angus, but absolutely relevant on this blog, in spite of the TDs.
Late last night Sky carried a report of ‘Celtic fans’ attacking a group of plain-clothes policemen. Make of that what you will. I also saw a video clip of about 100 hooded people, some with metal sticks, attacking a bar where Celtic fans were having a drink. Sounds like general chaos and anarchy with fans from other clubs and Euro ties turning up. UEFA will no doubt act … zzzzzzz.
I don’t believe for a second that Celts fans consist entirely of old hippies giving the peace sign, but the Jack Irvine stuff makes you want to look a second time at these reports. Sky last night was ‘Celtic fans violence in Amsterdam’ … ‘43,000 saw Rangers defeat Dunfermline 3-1’.
Since Irvine’s name now seems to appear on all official documents coming out of Ibrox I can see why some folks question all this ‘reporting’.
Angus1983 says: (1220)
November 7, 2013 at 8:44 am
So … how did the fans in Amsterdam get on with their delegated responsibility of upholding “the reputation of Scottish football” in Europe last night, then?
———————————————————————-
I think it’s best to reserve judgement until all facts are in, there appears to have been a pre-planned set of events which have led to some incidents that I have not seen in my last 2 trips there. Normally there is always some trouble when you get large groups of drunk young men in these situations, not exclusive to club or country but some of the events that came up were orchestrated by what appeared to be sober and calculated individuals, unfortunately this is normally (and was in this case) followed by the inevitable reaction.
Angus1983 says: (1220)
November 7, 2013 at 8:44 am
So … how did the fans in Amsterdam get on with their delegated responsibility of upholding “the reputation of Scottish football” in Europe last night, then?
=======================
I’ve watched quite a few fans videos and Dutch news programmes of the streets in Amsterdam before and after the game. To be honest I’ve yet to see anything that will take up 30 minutes of Crimewatch on BBC.
Angus1983 says: (1220)
November 7, 2013 at 8:44 am
So … how did the fans in Amsterdam get on with their delegated responsibility of upholding “the reputation of Scottish football” in Europe last night, then?
===========================
As a Celtic fan living in Amsterdam for the past 10 years, I have to say our reputation here is great.
In my time, many European teams have come to play Ajax. Many bring only hundreds of fans at most and often times you have to strain to even find any signs of them in the city center. In contrast, this week, 10-15,000 Celtic fans came to Amsterdam, not for a final or even a knock-out stage game. Just for a regular CL group stage game. They completely took over the city center where just about every cafe, pub and restaurant was filled with green-and-white garbed supporters. The atmosphere was fantastic. There were some sudden disturbances for a few minutes on the Dam but before and after that, it was very much one big party, which impressed many Amsterdammers that I know, judging by the constant stream of text messages I kept getting.
As for the reputation of Scottish fans in Holland: it’s that they like to drink and have a party and, in general, are not out to cause trouble (which can’t be said for the fans of many Dutch teams).
Danish Pastry says: (1644)
November 7, 2013 at 9:04 am
Late last night Sky carried a report of ‘Celtic fans’ attacking a group of plain-clothes policemen. Make of that what you will.
=========================
A difference between the Dutch MSM and the UK MSM:
While the UK media more or less ran translations of the reports from the Dutch media, one thing I haven’t seen reported in the UK, which I have seen reported in Holland is that it’s most likely that the Celtic fans didn’t know they were fighting with undercover police. When a group of five men in trainers and jeans and dark jackets suddenly grab a hoops-wearing supporter from the crowd, the first thought on many other supporters; minds was that these men were Ajax hooligans causing trouble (like the ones seen in the CCTV video on Tuesday evening attacking a Celtic-filled pub). That’s where the fighting with undercover police came from. But while the Dutch media is sympathetic to the fact that the Celtic supporters most likely didn’t know they were fighting with undercover police, the UK media leave this part out and thus presents a picture of Celtic fans staging an organized attack on the police.
The fact that the UK press has chosen to leave this part out of what was said in the Dutch press speaks volumes….
I’m going to stick on the tin hat here and play devils advocate.
To paraphrase Fergus, who brought it up first I think, the average bear put in a pound of hard earned and at present would only get 64p back. I have to be honest, had you offered that deal to the bears 18 months ago having walked the 4th and currently romping the 3rd they would probably have stuck in £2 if they could.
There are conditions of course. It appears that ‘the institutions’ may have stuck in 17m and have found ways to get said 17m+ straight back – so the truth really is that the fans £1 has been written off on a chateaux somewhere, but that has yet to be proven. Secondly, the romping of the divisions has come at a cost, an extreme and seemingly unnecessary cost. Two things here. Ask the fans if it is unnecessary when they beat all put before them, previous comment notwithstanding. Secondly see Murray’s Email yesterday regarding brand value. They have to be winning and it has to be to full houses. Remind me, what was the Rangers headline last night onn SSN.
Which brings us back nicely to Mr McCoist. (I said tin hat was on!) Who else would have taken on the managers job, and endured the flak that he has whilst barefacedly supporting whichever board member required supporting that day. Kenny Shiels? Doesn’t have the media persona and cage too easily rattled. Calderwood or similar? Too big a gamble? He was really the only one for the job, so why shouldn’t he take a big slice of the action for doing it. Good on him I say. Again the previous point is valid though. Hang on I hear you say – the money isn’t there to support him. Not his problem. It is at the moment, it appears that the gravy train will be arriving at the station again shortly. As somebody else said, its always better to be on the train with the window open…
GROUP STRUCTURE
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There is a link…
Surprise Surprise Dec 19 is the date we’re all now looking at.
Never in the history of AIM has the first planned AGM of a two bit company generated such interest or been given such “importance”.
And in the 6 week countdown to the day we’ll be entertained with a bunch of rogue squirrels along the way.
It will keep all feeble and idle minds occupied and certainly well away from asking the money questions.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Somers was at Zurich too in person or in spirit as I’d guess he is at the very least a pal of one of those who was there.
A short term shoe-in for a group with a plan and a need for a delaying tactic.
In fact I’ll wager a guinea or two on that.
He is just the latest media focus.
And my deep instinct is if the cv above is correct that he has had just too many companies on his CV to be anything more than a cynical plant by the spivs.
I say that without knowing him but knowing that the Blue Boardroom could have appointed someone immediately available weeks ago.
Someone like well known blue nose Gordon McKie who sorted out the SRU.
But they would not do that because Gordon is no patsy, probably knows too much and they could not have coped with someone like him who would have played with a straight bat and with the interests of the club and its fans at heart.
That is their real world.
So by Dec 19th we’ll have debated to death who might be the new CEO and all the other crap like that.
But behind the scenes and away from the media the plays will be cut and dried by then.
The spivs will have a mix of cash, any wee ongoing revenue deals for stuff like merchandise, and maybe a couple of windfall sales too on some real estate.
Those who want to be the new custodians of Rangers will have had to either Put up and buy the spivs shares or Start up as a third rangers.
More entertaining in the run up to Xmas than I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here but just as daft.
From Aiden67 on KDS
Funny that seems to complete a circle.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-owner-craig-whyte-sold-1117744
And: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chief-charles-green-quits-1842777
Rangers chief Charles Green quits over fresh links to disgraced Craig Whyte
20 Apr 2013 07:26
GREEN stepped down as chief executive yesterday after the club launched a probe into his involvement with Whyte following a series of revelations.
Zeus, Octopus, Close Brothers, Kingsbridge, Allenbridge
Craig Whyte, Sevco and Charles Green.
Smugas says: (491)
November 7, 2013 at 9:44 am
==============================
Thought provoking and a good effort at encouraging a 360 degree view of the RIFC situation but it focuses very much on the short-term. The second half of the mantra on the “Journey back to our rightful place place” requires that the team in blue be able to compete in the Premiership before conquering Europe. How can this ever be done if they are simply continuing the David Murray/Craig Whyte practice of spending £10m+ more each year more than they take in? Even if Celtic don’t manage the Round of 16 in 2013-14 their finances are in so much better shape now, and likely to continue to be, that RIFC will need something extraordinary to happen to shift the continuing Celtic dominance. If I was a Rangers fan I wouldn’t depend on Celtic’s fans getting bored with success as an enabler to Rangers Premiership success and access to the Champions League. I’d guess that there would be a significant degree of crowd boosting at Celtic Park should Rangers make the Premiership in the next few years.
I think the mail function is working again. Anyone not getting messages if a comment is on moderation, or a password sent when they register, please let us know immediately.
tsfm@tsfm.org.uk
Smugas says: (491)
November 7, 2013 at 9:44 am
I know what you mean Smugas.
My problem (and I think most people’s problem) with Mr McCoist is that he continues to pretend he is in it for the good of Rangers.
I would say that is patently untrue, yet the media continue to portray him as one of the good guys.
Whilst the media decision is not McCoist’s fault it just adds to the two-faced persona we have seen in the last few years.
Will he still be a legend at the end of this story?
Carfins Finest says: (37)
November 7, 2013 at 10:11 am
1 0 Rate This
From Aiden67 on KDS …
————–
Complicated. What does it actually mean?
That Dwek chap is a new one to me … and there’s a pun in that name somewhere. So, looks like a few interesting developments in Dwek ahead.
I’ll get ma bunnet.
Blu
Agreed, I’d go as far as to recommend that Sevco make no other plans other than short term tbh!
I am actually developing a theory along the lines you describe. Firstly I’d say ignore the CL and even the CFC element for now. What is the point of getting to the championship if you are monumentally skint – which all predictions say they will be? Well yes they’ll be skint but that is rectified by fresh investment albeit temporarily if losses continue. Why would fresh investment not be forthcoming? If the business model was still a train wreck. But if, in getting to the chamionship you then strip out all the spiv activity, the fleece deals and the consultancy charges are you left with a something more sustainable?
I keep being drawn back to the idea of a master plan where basically the spivs get to play with their new toy for a while (period extended due to unforseen diversion via the fourth division), in so doing create a disasterous set of trading figures since they are the costs but what is left? Its a shell, as agreed. Its a potless shell, as agreed, despite IPO promises to the conrary. It will hopefully not be a homeless shell (another unforseen diversion I feel) but its still the shell, the licence holding 140 year old shell that was agreed to be handed back all those months ago.
But, and as you say yourself, and still keeping the CL and CFC dimensions out of it, can it, with fresh investment, ever be a profitable or even modestly sustainable shell? That’s the question. It all well and good to laugh (sorry GJ but I do) at the fact that there’s 14m of operating losses AND a collection of spivs taking (pick a number at random) 10m per year out. But add the two together and you’re POTENTIALLY at a 4m loss with a match winning side and still playing to full houses. That’s doable. Maybe not palatable unless it’s correctly communicated, obvious stumbling blocks along the way especially as they enter the realms of full time football, but its POTENTIALLY doable.
I am fully aware by the way, that it would have been a helluva lot easier to take on the 2nd and SPL as was with a wee cash pile from a modest performance in the 3rd and 4th, but then the spivs maybe weren’t willing to play ball, and it was, is and possibly still will be after the 19th their ball!
Smugas says: (492)
November 7, 2013 at 11:25 am
==================================
Smugas, a good development on your theory but I think there’s another flaw – as noted previously on TSFM/RTC (sorry, I can’t remember by whom) there’s a problem with this kind of discussion – those taking part are looking at it from the perspective of normal business practice. Those who’ve been involved at the various Rangers entities have a different world-view.
Joethebookie says: (19)
November 7, 2013 at 10:50 am
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No. I believe A McCoist is clearly doing it for The Rangers. He may be taking a massive slice of the action whilst doing it, but I cannot hand on heart claim he’s in it entirely for himself. He is clever enough to recognise a gravy train ongoing, just like the rest of them. I’d also be surprised if he believes he’ll be kept on as manager long term (assuming the meteoric rise continues) and certainly not if starts to falter.
Blu,
I don’t necessarily see that as a flaw as such. In normal business practise the spivs would have torn up ‘the plan’ the second they got the keys to the door and phoned Car Parks R Us for advice on getting planning permission. The brogues would ordinarily be told to ‘do one’ They didn’t. RFC* are still with us. Is it simply that the spivs see more long term value in a ransom scenario? Possibly. But then there are other ‘non business’ factors at play there too 😯
Alert Alert Aroooogah
*that’s the brand by the way, the RFC brand, not the club, gawd no lets not go there again…
Smugas says: (494)
November 7, 2013 at 11:53 am
Sorry, Smugas, but consider what Mr McCoist has done:
Firstly, he and that other legend Sandy Jardine ensured that Rangers would have to start in the bottom tier
Secondly, he took a large slice of shares, at next to nothing
Thirdly, he signed a contract ensuring he would earn more than probably any football manager in Scotland. Yes he announced he was taking a pay cut, but has it actually happened?
Fourthly, in return for the shares and the huge contract, he has become part and parcel of the operation that has seen hard working bears money pulled into the club, and just as quickly shoved into the pockets of a select few, including himself.
Good of rangers at heart? Don’t you believe it.
The man is a disgrace for many reasons, the above are just a few.
Scapa,
I don’t disagree with anything you say, but he has a winning team on the park to hide behind. Don’t underestimate that. OK so a few financially astute bearz have told them to heave ho – that’s fine, there’s plenty more young impressionable neds willing to fill their boots, and season tickets. As long as they’re winning…
I struggle to see your logic slightly (is it just me or am I starting to sound like Jack?). What was Ally supposed to do. Take the flak, give up his high profile comfy QoS lifestyle and do the manager’s job for nowt so that the chateaux inhabiters could get an extra couple of bedrooms?
Driving to the pub last night to watch the game, I switched on Radio Shortbread to check if there was any team news, gossip, incisive comment or journalistic insight into how the game may pan out.
I mistakenly assumed that the coverage would be focussed on the UCL tie in Amsterdam. Imagine my surprise (?) when I worked out that I was listening to some BBC bod asking Artur Numan : ‘Can Rangers win the Scottish Cup this season?’
Fair wasted ma pre-match preparation.
For the avoidance of doubt, the car will be collected later today.
54 pints to 0 Scottish Cups (copyright SS)
Smugas says: (495)
November 7, 2013 at 11:53 am
Joethebookie says: (19)
November 7, 2013 at 10:50 am
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No. I believe A McCoist is clearly doing it for The Rangers. He may be taking a massive slice of the action whilst doing it, but I cannot hand on heart claim he’s in it entirely for himself. He is clever enough to recognise a gravy train ongoing, just like the rest of them. I’d also be surprised if he believes he’ll be kept on as manager long term (assuming the meteoric rise continues) and certainly not if starts to falter.
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Then we are agreed. He is doing it for both reasons but it is difficult to identify the main one. If reward was not a driver then why take excessive remuneration and cheap shares?
Smugas says: (495)
November 7, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Bomber brown for all his faults, has far more integrity than Mr McCoist ever had, or ever will have.
Just watched the video on the DR site.
Alcohol and anti social behaviour. Were most of that lot even at the game or did they just hop over for a jolly on the Amstel and whatever was available from the nearby coffee shops?
What a midden.
It’s always a shame when your team seems to attract a load of knuckle dragging A holes. Idiots.