Good Evening,
Whilst it is understandable that the continuing events at Ibrox remain a hot topic among all Scottish Football Fans — especially given the views of some sections of the press on such events– the never ending rush down the marble staircase is certainly not the only show in town.
The other morning we were treated to the “scoop” that Alistair Johnstone is afraid that Craig Whyte– the once proclaimed Multi Billionaire from Motherwell- may well still be pulling all the strings at Ibrox! This is a fear which is shared by those who walk the corridors of Hampden Park as they, too, are terrified of the prospect of Whyte returning in some shape or form and coming back to haunt them, especially as he has been deemed unfit and proper, banned sine die, and generally ridiculed for his past actions.
However, the Hampden jackets know fine well that their realm only stretches so far and that if by means of the proper application of company law, contract or some other piece of paper Whyte controls the shareholding of the self proclaimed “parent company” to the football club then they are in a fix. In fact, I will wager that they just would not know how to deal with such a situation as after all RIFC PLC neither holds a licence to play football nor is a member of the SFA and so, on the face of it, who owns it has nothing to do with them.
At this juncture, no one in authority knows who Blue Pitch Holdings are and, strangely, no one in authority knows who Margarita Holdings are either! Yet these two “holdings” whoever they may be, may well hold all the power down Govan way…… with the SFA completely powerless to find out who they are let alone get into any dialogue with them. All the SFA can do is talk to the appointed Directors and officers of The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
This, is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Meanwhile, they will have no difficulty in finding out who the new shareholders of Dunfermline Athletic are. Those shareholders will come from the fanbase and will be clearly registered at Companies House, with the result that ultimately those fans/shareholders will appoint Directors who will then attend meetings and speak and opine on their behalf and in essence be the ” Voice of Dunfermline” at Hampden.
Perhaps, similar will follow from Heart of Midlothian?
However, those at Hampden — if they have any sense at all– will be most wary of events happening in the east end of Glasgow come November.
In the middle of the month, Celtic PLC will hold its AGM and amidst the items on the agenda is the fan driven notion that the Club— through its Directors—- should go further in holding the SFA to account and enquire into the granting of club licences, and in particular how it granted Rangers a club licence that allowed entry to the Champions League in 2011 when the small tax case was outstanding.
The Celtic board have deemed this motion as “Unnecessary” and in support of that contention have released documentation showing that they raised this very issue with the SFA on behalf of the shareholders and fans. Further– and here is the rub— The Directors reveal that they were not satisfied with the SFA response and have disclosed that they took the matter further and wrote to UEFA.
Ultimately, UEFA also provided a reply, which backed the SFA approach and which Celtic had little option but to accept in the absence of admissible contradicting evidence..
It is on this basis, that Peter Lawell and Co say the AGM motion is not necessary. Note that saying that the motion is not necessary, is not at all the same thing as saying that what the motion seeks to achieve is not necessary or does not have the support of the board!
There will be those at Hampden who severely hope that the Celtic Board are successful in voting this measure down as obviously they deem their original reply sufficient and would like to end the discussion there.
However, my own view, is that whether the motion is successful or not, there are those within the SFA who will recognise there is trouble staring them in the face here. Real Trouble!
Let’s recap for a moment and draw some threads together.
Celtic’s past Chairman, Dr John Reid, said only a couple of years ago that the SFA was clearly not fit for purpose. He did so in the context of events surrounding Neil Lennon and other matters, but was unshakably robust in his condemnation of an institutionalised uselessness which he saw pervaded the Hampden ranks.
Prior to that, Henry McLeish produced a report which stated that he too had concerns about the Governance of Scottish Football and called for openness and transparency.
In the intervening period, we have seen Mr David Longmuir, former Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League, find himelf without a position following reconstruction– and this partly as a result of club chairmen being apparently kept in the dark about his payment, bonuses and expenes. I understand that there was considerable anger from some at the way in which they had been treated by Mr Longmuir.
Then there is Mr Campbell Ogilvie, El Presidente, who himself benefited from a Rangers EBT and who held sway at Ibrox during a period of time when Rangers– by their own admission— made unlawful and illegal payments to three high profile players in breach of tax laws and SFA/SPL rules. It is these breaches and the consequent Wee Tax Bill which has caused all the angst among Celtic fans and has lead to the highly regulated legal step of tabling a motion at the club’s AGM.
Basically, the position seems to be, that as at the due date when the appropriate documents and declarations were made for a Euro Licence by Rangers for 2011, the wee tax bill was outstanding and due. If it was overdue, then the SFA could not and should not have granted them a licence……. and potentially Celtic should then have been put forward as Scotland’s representatives in the Champion’s League.
However, that did not happen, and Ranger’s were granted a licence– something that the Celtic Directors clearly felt was not correct.
They may have disagreed with the awarding of the licence because there were those at Rangers at the time who declared that a payment to account had been made to the tax office– allegedly £500,000– and that they had entered into an agreement to make payment of the balance by instalments. Had that been so, then all would have been hunky dory and no more would have been said.
Alas, however, no such payment appears to have been made at all, and no such agreement was entered into and so, on that basis, the tax bill was overdue and outstanding as at 30th June in terms of Article 66 and as such no Euro Licence should have been granted.
However, the argument does not end there.
Auldheid, has posted frequently on these pages about the ins and outs of the licensing provisions and the mechanism and so I will leave that detail to him as he is far more expert in these areas than me.
Now, one of the SFA functions is to have an auditor– someone who can check books, contracts, paper work and so on, and it is part of the SFA licensing function to be satisfied that all the paperwork is of course correct and in proper fashion before they issue any licence.
In this case, it is alleged that the SFA did not perform their function properly.
In relation to the wee tax case, it is said that either they did not make sufficient enquiry of Rangers re the payment to account or the agreement which they were told was in place. At the time it was mooted in the press that no such agreement was in place as at the relevant date ( June 30th ) and a simple check with the revenue would have shown the truth of the matter.
Yet, for whatever reason, no such check appears to have been made, and if you recall a Radio Scotland interview with Alistair Johnstone, Rangers submitted the forms, the SFA replied with one or two enquiries about the BIG tax case which were answered, and thereafter the Licence appears to have simply dropped through the letter box without further ado.
You will also recall that the existence of the wee tax case became known BEFORE Craig Whyte bought David Murray’s shareholding in May 2011. In fact it was the subject of News Paper headlines weeks before the deal was completed, and so the fact that there was a wee tax bill was well and truly in the public domain.
When it came to filling in the appropriate forms,either, the SFA were mislead by those then at Rangers with regard to that tax bill, OR, they simply failed to do the requisite checks and make reasonable enquiries before they issued the licence.
However, the uncomfortable fact also remains, that one of the chaps who must have been in the know re the admittedly unlawful and offending side letters, contracts and payments to the three players concerned was Campbell Ogilivie who was on the Rangers Board at the relevant time when the contracts and irregular payments were made under the Discount Options Scheme from 1999 to 2002/3. Indeed he may even have initiated the first payment to Craig Moore in 1999. I reiterate that no one has ever contested that this was an unlawful scheme, and the irregular payments and paperwork are not denied in relation to that scheme.
There are Celtic shareholders who believe, rightly or wrongly, that when it came to the granting of the Euro Licence, the SFA did not play them fair on this occasion and that the wheels within Hampden were oiled in such a way that Rangers were favoured and Celtic were disadvantaged. It is a point that looks to have already been considered by the Celtic Directors in 2011, with the result that they concluded that they should formally write to the SFA and seek clarification.
However, we now have the prospect of those same directors having to go back to Hampden and say ” Sorry, but I am forced to bring this up by my shareholders. I have a legal duty to them to enquire further”. Even if the motion is refused, the point has been made– there are shareholders who are demanding answers– just as shareholders of other clubs demand answers about the ever so secret 5 way agreement and other matters which have hitherto been not for public consumption.
The SFA have nothing to fear of course as they can simply repeat their previous answers,demonstrate that all was above board, and rest easy in their beds.
Except that answer did not satisfy the Celtic Directors on a previous occasion as they decided to take the matter to UEFA, and it would appear that some Celtic shareholders remain dissatisfied with the known stance of the SFA and so they want the Directors of the club to delve further. Without wishing to point out the obvious, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted rigorously or that those at Hampden were in any way economical with the truth or omitted certain details from the previous explanation, or covered up a failure in procedures—- well such omissions have a habit of becoming public these days whether that be through the internet or otherwise.
The point here is that the actions of Hampden officials are coming under organised, legal and planned corporate scrutiny over which they have no control. The Blazer and club mentality that was once so widespread within the governing bodies is under increasing attack and is being rendered a thing of the past.
In short, the move by Celtic shareholders, is making it plain that they will demand proper corporate governance from their club in ensuring that any alleged failure in corporate governance by the SFA or SPFL is properly investigated and reported on.
Of course, if it turns out that the 2011 Licensing process was somehow fudged and not conducted properly for whatever reason, then it could be argued that Celtic were disadvantaged in monetary terms along with other clubs who may have been awarded Europa League licences, then the consequences could be cataclysmic. Hence a tendency to circle the wagons rather than admit to failures in the process that need addressing.
It is this reluctance to come out and accept that the licensing process appears to have failed, say at what point the process failed and what needs to be done to address those failures that in many ways has driven the resolution. It is clear to all that something is amiss but the SFA will not admit it, probably from fear of the consequences of doing so? Perhaps some form of indemnity, a lessons learned enquiry with no prejudice might help?
It would come as no surprise to me at all if there were those at Hampden who live in dreaded fear of admitting that their processes were flawed and that a grave mistake was made. Under these circumstances, there may well be those at Hampden who simply wish that Celtic and their fans would just go away!
Shirley if the SFA/SPL recognise TRFC as the same club then they had absolutely no justification in withholding prize and TV monies from them. (2011/12) If I was a Berr I would be demanding that my club chase up this “stolen” booty. After all it was the football club that earned the prize money and not the bankrupt company.
😛
HirsutePursuit says: (432)
November 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm
“On 6th May 2011,who said this?”
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RTC.
What’s the best way to force the SFA and SPFL into officially clarifying olcdo/ newco status without involving SMSM?
There must be a way of removing their protective body guards (MSM and MH) and exposing them to telling the truth.
One statement from Regan or Ogilvie could put this whole thing to bed immediately.
just wondering…if sevco ever get back to the top division and are playing celtic at parkhead…what will celtic call them ?…”rangers” ?…dont think so…”sevco” ?…probably not…”The rangers”…possibly…or if they go bust again..which is highly likely at this stage..will they be called “rangers the third” ? …one to ponder…you can see the uproar now 😛
tomtom says: (493)
November 17, 2013 at 10:43 am
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1
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“Therefore if we use his logic Rory Bremner looking, walking and talking like Tony Blair must in fact be Tony Blair.”
_________________________________________
Rory never quite got the Blair thing down though did he…
There was always a moment about 10 seconds into his performance where you went “Ah… Tony Blair!”
Anyhow, I digress 😆
Castofthousands says: (7)
November 17, 2013 at 12:53 pm
1 0 Rate This
HirsutePursuit says: (432)
November 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm
“On 6th May 2011,who said this?”
————————–
RTC.
===================================================
Well done that man! 🙂
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/blinded-by-the-whyte-2/comment-page-1/#comments
For me, I often find it useful to revisit where my journey as a bampot began. 😎
There is an argument that Uncle Tom English is far worse than JT. He may justify his acquiescence to the dark forces of Media House by some self-serving delusion that he is just playing the system. In his more sober moments however, the realisation must dawn on him. He is, like the rest of us, being taken for a fool.
It is difficult to feel pity when his motives appear so selfish. I don’t know if contempt is too strong a word…
…but it’s close.
fergussingstheblues @1.02
“One statement from Regan or Ogilvie could put this whole thing to bed immediately”
===========================================================
The only statement I want to hear from either of the above starts with the words ” I hereby tender my resignation with immediate effect”
upthehoops says: (656)
November 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm#
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No, I am hearing they received advice last night (Saturday evening??) and were told to can any discussion immediately. The message was that the last thing anyone wants – BBC, SFA or indeed Sevco – is Lawwell deciding he will justify his stance in a court of law. Then the cat + squirrel would really be out of the bag.
So the message is to ridicule him as he ridiculed a 141 year old institution, and castigate him for “raising the temperature” but NOT under any circumstances to allow the discussion to extend to stating that he was wrong in what he said. That I understand is the gist of the legal advice but you won’t get anyone to admit it.
BBC Sportsound/Your Call becomes a parody of itself with every passing episode – packed to the gunnels with Rangersness and nary an independent voice within hearing.
Yesterday, for example, managerial serial failure ex-Ranger Alex McLeish was given a lot of exposure (“he could work abroad…or even further” as Billy Dodds commented) as was managerial serial-failure Bobby Williamson (hiding out in Africa for the past 5 years).
Then for the dessert course/phone-in we had Kenny “Is that a club deck season book in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?” McIntyre, Speirs & Jackson the tools not to trust, (Jangles joking about his “off the radar” phrase as if it were something to be proud of), and English, the Irishman oft accused of welshing on his morals in the Scotsman.
Wall to wall Rangersness, total lack of balance and impartiality, and not even room for Chick Young. Don’t forget, the MSM extends to the broadcast media which if anything is even worse than the print media. (Though there was an interesting snippet in the Mail on Sunday today by Alexander Bedoya which suggested that the walls of the Murray Park training HQ have been stripped bare – “if it moves, flog it” ??)
54 (listeners) to 0
PS don’t forget all of these guys commentate or write from a position of conflict – or obsession if you like. They are obsessed that they will lose their jobs if there isn’t a quick catapulting by any means possible of anything called Rangers to the top echelon of Scottish football. That drives everything they say, write or do.
Always remember if it quacks like a desperate journalist, waddles like an expenses-fed journalist, jangles like a desperate journalist with “off the radar” fear of losing his job, witters like a desperate journalist, makes hypocritical remarks about obsession like an obsessed journalist, and lies like a desperate journalist, then the chances are you’ve tuned into a BBC Scotland sports programme….
fergussingstheblues says: (92)
November 17, 2013 at 1:02 pm
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0
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What’s the best way to force the SFA and SPFL into officially clarifying olcdo/ newco status without involving SMSM?
There must be a way of removing their protective body guards (MSM and MH) and exposing them to telling the truth.
One statement from Regan or Ogilvie could put this whole thing to bed immediately.
___________________________________
I Suppose WE could report Lawell to the SFA for bringing the game into disrepute and force them to make a ruling 😆
At the time of the asset purchase, when Mr Green changed his new club’s name from “Sevco Scotland” to “The Rangers Football Club”, it was within his gift to change the name to anything of his choosing.
He could have chosen “The Govan Celtic Football Club”, playing out of Ibrox in blue strips.
Would they still have been the original Rangers then?
This is how ridiculous this has all become. 🙄
It’s now gone on too long for even an official word from the SFA to be taken 100% as the definitive answer. It would only become a tool in the argument for whichever side they fell on.
The only way we won’t be taking this argument to our graves with us, whichever side you fall on, is if the club pretending to be RFC 1872 were to go out of business.
At that point though will it just be a case that the “same club” argument just gets diluted that little bit further or will the authorities stand on the steps of Hampden and do it right, having been given a second chance to do so.
I agree fully with the point above about how this argument, which has been argued to death, has allowed far more important stuff to go on that has passed the fans of this entity by.
So, it is, for the Spivs’ purposes the greatest announcement Charles Green made to bring up the same club argument.
I disagree with that actually andygraham. I don’t think “the club pretending to be RFC 1872” going out of business would have any impact on the same club argument whatsoever. They wouldn’t even have to change the argument in the slightest, just sell the “history” on to new owners, start again and continue with the exact same story they’ve had since last summer.
I have said that though that the argument for same club only gets diluted a little further. To extinguish it for good the authorities would have to say dotting all I’s crossing all T’s that to get another chance you have to accept that you start afresh without fear nor favour.
If they let a new club in at div2 level playing in blue at Ibrox with Spiv 2.0 owners, then we are just going to be humming a Del Amitri song as this continues forever more
slimshady61 says: (301)
November 17, 2013 at 1:39 pm
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Cheers Slim, although two pundits (English & Jackson) were quite specific that it is the same club, although English used the pathetic ‘quacks like a duck’ analogy to justify himself. Jackson tied himself in knots by first of all stating there has never been a definitive on this, then only minutes later claiming the SFA say it’s the same club. I had to laugh at the inference the SFA won’t go public for fear of how Celtic fans will react! God help us all!
Resin_lab_dog says: (251)
November 17, 2013 at 1:35 pm
1 0 Rate
Rory never quite got the Blair thing down though did he…
There was always a moment about 10 seconds into his performance where you went “Ah… Tony Blair!”
Anyhow, I digress.
————-
Perhaps Peter Lawell should apologize to Rory Bremner for comparing him to a poor impersonator with a bad reputation? Or indeed, John Culshaw, who almost becomes Tony Sevco … er … Blair … before our very eyes!
Anyway, Lieutenant George’s line to Captain Blackadder should avert any court case, “Sir, it’s artistic licence. It’s willing suspension of disbelief.”
Barf, barf.
Idling away on a thankfully quiet Sunday, I paused to reflect on how Edinburgh born Rory Bremner might take the news of being compared to the spivfest that is the Rangers tribute act.
A quick search engine search led me to the fact that Rory isn’t even his name. ( 😉 )
His birth name is Roderick.
It gets better.
His full name is Roderick Keith…..wait for it….. Ogilvy ( 😯 ) Bremner.
His appearance on Who Do You Think You Are? ( 😀 ) revealed that his great grandfather was John Ogilvy, an acclaimed Surgeon General who served in the Crimea. There is an Ogilvie Godfrey family tree website that includes the Surgeon General, but contains far too many Ogilvy and Ogilvie descendants for me to follow. Obviously a sizeable number have Scottish links. Anyone care to pick up the trail?
As an aside, has anyone noticed that Robert Campbell Ogilvie’s Wiki page has him born in either 1950 or 1951? Now where have we seen that before?
andygraham.66 says: (67)
November 17, 2013 at 1:44 pm
‘…. agree fully with the point above about how this argument, which has been argued to death, has allowed far more important stuff to go on that has passed the fans of this entity by.’
—–
As you would expect, I disagree. There is nothing more important than the fact that the Football Authorities were complicit and remain complicit in allowing an illicit club to participate in Scottish professional football and claim to be the same club that went into liquidation.
That IS the story.Everything else is of merely secondary interest, and remains as such, in my view, until the Football Authorities are once again forced, by further Administration and Death, to break the rulesor re-write the rules to come to the rescue of that illicit club.
I can live with there being a Rangers FC -provided it is legitimate.
I cannot , and we must not,tolerate the corruption of a governing body, because that throws the whole sport into worse state than drug-taking by individual cyclists or football -betting by players playing in games on which they bet.
Nor must we lend any credence to hacks who are in thrall to the power and influence of dangerous, rabble-rousing elements in our society.
Hacks may lie and take sides if they wish-we don’t have to pay them. But the football authorities can be allowed no such latitude.
This, I thought, is what the blog is all about.
And all the continuous ,continuing and concerted efforts by people with the means to disseminate untruths in the face of the facts ought not, and will not deflect us.
We will not have our game governed by cheats and liars, on behalf of cheats and liars.
End of.
slimshady61 says: (301)
November 17, 2013 at 1:39 pm
upthehoops says: (656)
November 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm#
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No, I am hearing they received advice last night (Saturday evening??) and were told to can any discussion immediately. The message was that the last thing anyone wants – BBC, SFA or indeed Sevco – is Lawwell deciding he will justify his stance in a court of law. Then the cat + squirrel would really be out of the bag…
==================
A hypothetical question…
If you where a suitably disgruntled – and utterly fearless – small creditor who got stiffed by Rangers – and you where getting more and more angry at watching Sevco declare on a regular basis that they are in fact the same 141 years old Rangers…
Well, if you where e.g. a face painter – could you raise a ‘cheap’ action in the Small Claims Court ?
I have a mental picture of the small creditor, [perhaps with a Union Jack carefully painted on their visage 😉 ], beseeching the court to instruct this ‘same club’ to honour its long outstanding debt.
Of course, if it actually got that far, the court would quickly throw the face painter’s claim out – on the basis that the club / company masquerading as Rangers is actually not the same Rangers to whom they had provided services.
Face painter still doesn’t get any cash – but for a small court fee they get a wee bit of satisfaction nonetheless !
Would that court action be feasible ?
Re: far more important stuff comment
For their support, John.
As they react to every twitter comment, AGM quip, and mis-written use of word club rather than company 😳 their eye is off the ball as they are taken down from within
The hint that the pundits on last nights SSB were told to steer away from the subject saying Lawwell was wrong and only to say that it has caused an issue says it all really.
If this is true legal counsel has advised them to stay clear of this. Did they ever stop to think why this would be the case?
Would it possibly be because Lawwell is actually correct?
Did they ever stop to think why the BBC’s legal experts would tell them to take such a course of action?
Still they just ploughed on regardless talking mince.
As for the impartial BBC well this was the organisation that cancelled a radio show because Chris Graham, remember him, refused to go on a show with Paul McConville. So instead of allowing the show to go ahead with a point of view the cancelled it.
The BBC clearly have an editorial policy on this subject but know where to draw the line in respect of the law of the land.
They will allow counter debate on all manner of topics but not this subject. Strange that.
StevieBC says: (888)
November 17, 2013 at 2:57 pm
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Hypothetical but not so far fetched Stevie
I understand there is at least one creditor, and not a small one at that, who is thinking of something along those lines. The claim though would be too big to go under the small claims procedure.
slimshady61 says:
=======================
They currently have BDO working on it for them.
slimshady61 says: (301)
November 17, 2013 at 1:39 pm
‘….. English, the Irishman oft accused of welshing on his morals in the Scotsman. ‘
—–
Wonderful phrase.
Tif Finn says: (864)
November 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm
‘..They currently have BDO working on it for them.’
———
In sense that one particular creditor is actively exploring the possibility of debt recovery action v RIFC on his own account, with the help of BDO?
That would be interesting!
On the subject of the smsm and how they are known to get things slightly wrong (they twist the truth)
Below is 3 different articles representing the UTT tribunal appeal regarding the EBT’s.
Strangely, the most significant part and point, made by JUDGE BISHOPP, is in the text of number 3 below !
1 – http://dothebouncy.com/main/threads/rangers-tax-case-appeal-to-be-heard-in-public.57305/
2 -http://news.stv.tv/west-central/239433-rangers-ebt-tax-case-hmrc-appeal-to-be-heard-in-public-judge-rules/
3 – http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/TCC/2013/B6.pdf
. . .” 4. One of the Murray Group companies was Rangers Football Club plc (“RFC”), whose financial stability was known to be threatened by (among other things) tax debts, or at least claimed tax debts. As is well known, RFC collapsed into administration in March 2012, followed by liquidation in October 2012. It has been re-named RFC 2012 plc. The greater part of its business, and with it most of its assets, were purchased from the administrators in June 2012 by Sevco Scotland Ltd, which has since been re-named The Rangers Football Club Ltd. Although the professional football team known as Rangers had played in the Scottish Premier League until 2012, the collapse led to the ejection of the team from that league, and a team known as Rangers now plays in the Scottish Third Division.”
Well said Judge Bishopp. That’s good enough for me just now, until we get a statement from the SFA next week.
Old or New Club
It doesn’t matter if every single journalist in the UK wrote an article of spouted on radio that Rangers are a new club, it may help but it wont kill the argument unfortunately. The only way this can be killed off once and for all is for the SFA and/or UEFA to make that statement and hopefully Newco have shot themselves in the foot if they have complained to the SFA about PL’s joke. It may finally force a statement from the SFA. The problem is that this will rumble on because CO and his team at the SFA are also a joke in allowing this lie to continue. They have insisted on no changes to signs at Ibrox, the strip etc and I just wonder what was written on the trophy that new team won ? Was it The Rangers or Rangers, did they pass instructions as to what was written on the trophy?
I laugh and shake my head every time I see the current strip with those stars and the same logo, another joke and we (the whole of Scottish Football outside of Sevco) are laughing at them.
From a purely purely footballing point of view it’s really simple.
The top teams from 1 season are seeded in the league cup for the next season. They do not compete in the early rounds.
In their last season Rangers were second in the SPL, the second top team in Scotland and had they played in the league cup the following season they would not have played in the first round of the league cup.
The new Rangers played from the start of the league cup that year. In fact I think it was their first competitive game and things were rushed through to get the new team into the competition.
Scottish football if anything made the first proper declaration that the Rangers currently playing in Scotland is a different club.
slimshady61 says: (302)
November 17, 2013 at 10:52 am
…
To paraphrase Tom English, if a Tom English spouts nonsense that looks like a Media House press release, and it sounds like a Media House press release and it reads like a Media House press release, then guess what, Tom? It most probably is a Media House press release…
============================
You’re on a roll today ss !
That para gave me a chuckle: a truly painful, metaphorical kick to the goolies !
A magic sponge is required for Mr. English… 😉
Has anyone a summary of what was on the most-recent CF docs? They were demised by the time I got round to them? 😳
Slimshady is definitely on a roll today. My favourite has to be his PS to the MSM at 1.39pm;
PS don’t forget all of these guys commentate or write from a position of conflict – or obsession if you like. They are obsessed that they will lose their jobs if there isn’t a quick catapulting by any means possible of anything called Rangers to the top echelon of Scottish football. That drives everything they say, write or do.
Always remember if it quacks like a desperate journalist, waddles like an expenses-fed journalist, jangles like a desperate journalist with “off the radar” fear of losing his job, witters like a desperate journalist, makes hypocritical remarks about obsession like an obsessed journalist, and lies like a desperate journalist, then the chances are you’ve tuned into a BBC Scotland sports programme….
Surely the majority of Scotland’s so called journalists take a bit of timeout to read the TSFM of a Sunday.
Hopefully these comments struck home.
Jangles, Chick and co. must realise they are a truly desperate bunch, but the likes of the embarrassingly neutral Spiers and English aspire to being respected journalists. Don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon lads 😉
Details: sevco Scotland company details
Location:As of 28/6/13
Supplier: Stock No.
Item No. : Mini Maxi
DATE OF INCLUSION Name Company number Return date due Accounts due INITALS STOCK
(BALANCE) ORDERED OR REMARKS
16/11/12 RIFC PLC SC437060 14/12/13 16/5/14
29/5/12 TRFC LTD SC425159 26/6/13 OVERDUE 28/2/14 Mortgage Number of charges 1 0 satisfied
does this mean that the RIFC AR is due on the 14/12/2013 ,were these the figures put out this month
Also is there any significance in the mortgage on TRFC .
Does Scottish Sports Council not still have a charge over Murray Park?
On the BBC discussion embargo, I am assured (sources in Dundee) that the subject not to be discussed was Scott Gardner’s non-move to Ibrox.
No embargo on discussion of Peter Lawwell’s comments or anything related to that tired old chestnut of “Old Club – New Club”
Actually, Mr English’s column today was, on the whole, not unreasonable I thought. He didn’t say anything too ridiculous and provided opinion which was not out of order. Looking from a “neutral” standpoint, that is.
Of perhaps more interest is (once again) Andrew Smith’s “Stramash” column in SoS, whereby he makes the point that the membership was transferred to Rangers from Rangers. If they are indeed the same club, how can this be possible? He likens it to gym membership, and asks if any readers have had their membership transferred to themselves at any time?
Mr Smith, of course, reported “properly” on the Celtic AGM yesterday in the Scotsman, and went to some length to restrain himself. He evidently falls on the “entirely new club” side of the fence.
Danish Pastry says: (1683)
November 17, 2013 at 5:05 pm
0
0
Rate This
Has anyone a summary of what was on the most-recent CF docs? They were demised by the time I got round to them? 😳
__________________________________
From memory:
There was an internal RFC e-mail chain involving Whyte, Withey and others where it was stated that Tom English was lined up to do a demolition job on Paul Murray.. This was around the time the Wavetower/RFC shares were about to be suspended for non production of accounts.
ergo : Tom English = :slamb: muncher. and squirrel planter.
__________________
note to admins:
time has come for a squirrel emoticon don’t you think?
StevieBC says: (889)
November 17, 2013 at 4:35 pm (
============================
That para gave me a chuckle: a truly painful, metaphorical kick to the goolies !
A magic sponge is required for Mr. English… 😉
_____________________________________________________________________-
Erm, but he has no such bits to speak of – so a sponging is unnecessary 🙂
Angus1983 says: (1232)
November 17, 2013 at 5:26 pm
1 0 Rate This
———
Angus, Tom E. has been one of the best voices recently, but his performance on Sportsound Extra yesterday was slightly at odds with his more enlightened stance in recent weeks. It’s difficult to understand why he got so animated about PL’s comments, unless he’s read the blue barometer and decided it was time to talk up the Ibrox cause, which in this case is no cause at all.
Resin_lab_dog says: (252)
November 17, 2013 at 5:33 pm
2 0 Rate This
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Thanks @Resin. I wonder what TE’s take on that will be? He doesn’t strike me as someone who would allow himself to be spoon fed a line. He does appear to flip-flop at times, but I’m beginning to think it’s something his survival instinct teaches him. Not a fence-sitter but someone who attempts to spend a bit of time on either side.
Tif Finn makes mention of the old chestnut that if T’Rangers were the same club then why were they not seeded in the league cup.
I am sure I didn’t imagine it but I recall seeing a copy of an email that was posted on the Bears Den which was from a lady who was in charge of events at the SFA to a supporter, who was asking why they were in the early rounds, basically saying they didn’t get seeded as they were a new club.
Tried a while back to see if I could find it anywhere but with no luck.
Maybe the Sherlocks on here could have a go.
Post below from another forum today regarding Jim Traynor, edited to take the sweary bits out! Might be nonsense, might be true.
===============================================
A friend of mine was in his company last night, and proceeded to ask him “just how bad is it over the Ibrox way”
He said he cant say much in detail because of his confidentiality agreement, BUT,he gave a few wee snippets. He said to the guy that asked (Traynor knows he is a Celtic fan) “the situation at Rangers is worse than you can ever dream of”
He said he wanted to go around 6 months ago, but was asked to stay on, and eventually his wages were a big part of him getting punted last month, due to cost cutting.
Supposedly Dave King had a swatch around and wasn’t impressed at all with all the xxxxx in the mix who own the club ,the bus xxxxx,and unknown investors etc.
For those that didn’t see it:
From: hay141@btinternet.com
Date: 3 December 2011 07:26
To: Craig Whyte
Hi Craig,
Tom English had said he’ll have a pop at Paul Murray in his column tomorrow (sun). Scotsman used his comments on the back page with our responses ie. Irrelevant and of no consequence.
Regards,
Gordon Hay
Sent from my iPhone
wottpi says:
===========================
It may be an old chestnut bit it is still the case.
We had all the rubbish yesterday by Jackson about the SFA declaring that Rangers were the same club. However where he gets that from appears to be a mystery.
The fact of the matter is, had Rangers been considered the same club then they would not have played in the first round of the League Cup that season. That’s without going into more complex issues like having an associate membership, licences etc.
If Scottish football has made a declaration at all, it is that Rangers are a new club.
http://t.co/HAo3wwz4oc
Found this from last years Scottish Cup.
It seems to me that the collective ribbing towards Rangers, from the Celtic executives, serves several purposes. Firstly, diversion from internal squabbles; secondly, a clear statement to the current incumbents of the Blue Room, that Celtic has a stand-alone business model; thirdly, it draws fire from the Spivs, in the short term, which is in Celtic’s interest.
Ignoring the MSM tripe, there must be a concern that the new rule book is just not sufficient to deal with Ranger’s behaviour, as they rack up preposterous losses to win Div 3 and to be aye ready for Div2. The dignity fuelled outfit seem incapable of playing on anything approaching a level playing field and will the penalties incurred for a second administration actually prevent a promotion? On current projections, they could still win the league with a 25% point deduction ……..
To be blunt , the rules are written (and always have been) with an expectation of reasonable behaviour, how do you frame a set of rules to deal with the playground bully?
Seems to me that draconian measures are needed , administration in any league results in being placed at the bottom of that league, followed by relegation to the bottom division at the end of the season. Two admin events in 10 years result in expulsion.
I suspect that because Rangers ‘survived’ the first time round that everyone historically connected with Rangers is walking around with the mindset that “we got away with it first time round , so whatever the future holds we will be OK, we will get through this”.
Dangerous thinking , due to the incompetence and brotherly behaviour, it us all set-up for another disaster where Spivs threaten liquidation and the bungling incompetent brogues and blazers mis-read the situation and hey bingo. Like any negotiation , room for manoeuvre on both sides , 50-50 in my book.
TSFM says: (553)
November 17, 2013 at 5:25 pm
On the BBC discussion embargo, I am assured (sources in Dundee) that the subject not to be discussed was Scott Gardner’s non-move to Ibrox.
No embargo on discussion of Peter Lawwell’s comments or anything related to that tired old chestnut of “Old Club – New Club”
***************
Exiled Celt says: (790)
November 17, 2013 at 12:13 am
Biggest problem is Kenny MacIntyre tweeted this yesterday as the reason Keef Jackson was on the show…
Kenny Macintyre @bbckennymac 15 Nov
#Sportsound Extra 5.15 tomorrow – we will get Keith Jackson’s response to @RFC_Official statement. He’s got plenty to say on it. #Rangers
Now when he is asked why it was not discussed he is tweeting excuses why not…..
Kenny Macintyre @bbckennymac 1h
To answer lots of tweets – we were planning on discussing Rangers statement tonight but for reasons I can’t go into we didn’t.
Kenny Macintyre @bbckennymac 41m
I’m usually up for debate on Twitter – as open as I can be. But I just can’t say anything on this – as much as I would like to.
Kenny Macintyre @bbckennymac 44m
Some great responses.I just wanted to say that it was on agenda but there had to be change of plan.I just can’t expand on it right now.
So why the mysterious silence? Did Jack instruct them to concentrate on PL instead? And to think we pay for the BBC to do this…………..
**********************
Exactly – this is what I posted as well last night and replicated here above – it had nothing to do with PL as far as the twitter conversation with Kenny MacIntyre who has to be applauded for at times conversing with us bampots on Twitter.
Also the notion a facepainter should be encouraged to take TRFC to court would be a bad move as that would backfire – TRFC would settle with them out of court for the small sum involved and then be able to say see we are the same company. Only someone like HMRC or Ticketus that is wanting millions owed to them that could take them to court as TRFC or RIFC is not able to be pay that out of petty cash and would have to go to court – this scenario would get the desired result.
@Heavidor (David Low) has an interesting timeline this morning – he is saying all this is distraction from the real story – Sevco5088 and Worthington getting their ducks in a row by showing it owns Sevco5088 – and as Tom English says, if it quacks like a duck………..
chancer67 says:
===============================
There you have it.
In addition to the league cup Rangers were treated as a new club for the purposes of the Scottish Cup. The SFA’s own tournament.
So Mr Jackson, if the SFA have the definitive say in matters they have spoken. Loudly and clearly. The SFA have made it perfectly clear, Rangers are a new club.
To summarise what David Low was saying, all this fighting over RIFC and TRFC and agms is much ado about nothing – because Sevco5088 is claiming it owns it all. Below is some of he tweets.
David Low @Heavidor 21m
SMSM media asleep @ the wheel again. I’m not doing their job 4 them. I’ve made my point. More interested in Rory than real news. Bowing out
David Low @Heavidor 23m
@PeterAdamSmith @kevbhoy4 @fooshtoosh Old news. RIFC don’t own 5088. LawFin now owns it. LawFin owned by WG. WG controlled by CW.
David Low @Heavidor 33m
Sunday Cantona; If a man in pub sells u Crombie coat he has stolen, Crombie still owns the coat & is entitled to its return.
David Low @Heavidor 36m
@PeterAdamSmith @kevbhoy4 @fooshtoosh That’s not the story. The story is 5088 iowned by WG, raising funds to get its football club back.
David Low @Heavidor 42m
@Reckoner1888 @fooshtoosh @PeterAdamSmith No one in the SMSM has understood or covered the full import of what Worthington alleges.
In case you don’t know who David Low is,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9295638/Charles-Green-is-getting-a-bargain-with-Rangers-says-David-Low.html
Danish Pastry says: (1685)
November 17, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Angus, Tom E. has been one of the best voices recently, but his performance on Sportsound Extra yesterday was slightly at odds with his more enlightened stance in recent weeks.
——
Cheers, Danish – I didn’t hear it and have only read snippets on here.
I do think an awful lot is being made of the old club / new club thing just now. I mean, does it really matter (tin hat on)? I couldn’t personally care whether they have 140 or 2 years of history. Yes, the former is a fib.
However – I would just let them get on with it, because it seems to me that at some not too distant future point things are going to become very clear to every bear and every TRFC representative in town.
Let them crow from the rooftops meantime – it’ll give them a wee bit further to fall, and therefore a bit longer for everyone else to make the popcorn / laugh etc.
Been following the whole sevco ongoing charade, another few days at £38k GBP wasted!!
Thought the celtic AGM would provide plenty distraction.
Thanks to earlier posters, I had read the UTT prep and this struck, you reminded me how good a summation it is…
Also, I keep a RFC LIQUIDATED front page on my work desk, keeps lot of people away. Many people now ask me to bin it as apparently it did not happen.
So, in the spirit of the continuation of the pursuit of truth and hopefully justice.
Will this be a best selling must have for xmas for all those non TRFC followers ….
The SEVCO RANGE of products,
With ….
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/TCC/2013/B6.pdf
One of the Murray Group companies was Rangers Football Club plc (“RFC”), whose financial stability was known to be threatened by (among other things) tax debts, or at least claimed tax debts. As is well known, RFC collapsed into administration in March 2012, followed by liquidation in October 2012. It has been re-named RFC 2012 plc. The greater part of its business, and with it most of its assets, were purchased from the administrators in June 2012 by Sevco Scotland Ltd, which has since been re-named The Rangers Football Club Ltd. Although the professional football team known as Rangers had played in the Scottish Premier League until 2012, the collapse led to the ejection of the team from that league, and a team known as Rangers now plays in the Scottish Third Division.”
and
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZNdVJEIIAEg-vA.jpg:large
With t-shirts, mugs, aprons, tea towels, socks, bath towels etc…
Back to lurking for a bit.
Buddy
Angus1983 says: (1233)
November 17, 2013 at 7:05 pm
No need for tin hat on – many of us feel the same – HOWEVER
The old adage of give an inch and be taken a mile etc
As soon as we give in to it being the same club/company/clumpany, we will then be told so if its the same company then we have to apologise for kicking them when they were down etc. All the consequences will become punishments. the league entry will become relegation – in short there will be no end to this.
No one has ever answered my question on why it was not the 4 way agreement that is being stored in a bunker near Hampden under 24 hour guard. 5 way means 2 clubs – 4 way means 1 club!
To give Spiers credit, his point that Murray never ever claimed to be the owner of the company that was the holding company of the club was spot on. Murray never had 2 boards before – so who did RIFC replace?
When you cannot get reasonable answers, I like you shake my head and say whatever – but acceding to a point of view that makes the rest of the actions taken last summer nonsensical means the culprits who agreed to the nonsense of rule bending in SFA get away scot free and I am not prepared to give them a free pass on this.
Scotland needs to ensure SFA are held accountable
Exiled celt, agree with all you say above. The fact of them being a new club IS important – without it being the case, RFC* fans would be right to be angry about the ‘punishmnets’, the relegation, the fly kicks etc etc. Only when they come to realise that they arer a new club, will those things make sense to them, giving them the chance to accept them.
Only through acceptance can there be reconciliation.
I hate to see people taking advantage and if they’re allowed to carry on with the history etc, then there will have been no consequence of them shedding the debt through liquidation. That’s not acceptable in my book.
Quite an interesting week in obsessed bampot land, so I’ll do one of my infrequent summaries, more for myself as a place to store my thoughts.
Firstly, the Celtic AGM; Well at least they had one, with lots of jokes at Sevco’s expense. Two major issues up for talking about, both sidelined by the MSM to pursue the jokes and jokers. No comment from any traditional media on the Living wage issue (although this isn’t a football thing, it seems to be in every walk of life at the moment) and resolution 12 set aside while it is dealt with by the club.
Like many I’m now thinking that resolution 12 delay and the jokes from the floor are brought about by what many assume will be the soon to be heard death bells of sevco (false hope). But why did the MSM feel the need to pursue this, any attempt by sevco to censure Peter Lawwell will only end up in a very bad PR day for sevco, so I can only assume that no actual complaint will be made and it will simply be noise and bluster through :slamb: puppets. It’s all about keeping sevco relevant and linked to the ‘Old Firm’ myth.
Second and final point, BDO, pheonixing, rebranding etc; Well where do I start, I like many get excited at the prospect of Karma finally arriving at Edmiston Drive.
It ain’t going to happen.
After all we have seen in the past few years, anyone who thinks that any laws or rules will be applied is still deluding themselves. I think any debt currently associated with the the footballing operations will be transferred to the holding company if it hasn’t already. The footballing assets and property will be assigned to sevco 5088, which will be passed to the Worthington group. The holding company, now with no assets and having done its job of returning as much cash as possible to the big pre liquidation investors is declared bust and is eventually liquidated. Worthington group continue to operate the club, as its only the holding company has changed. Whyte will be at a suitable distance away from the football operating side as to not attract any unwanted attention from the SFA. Double switcheroo and a debt free club operating with the same history and an emboldened ethos of being untouchable.
However, I still live in forlorn hope that Laws and Rules will be followed.
buddy_holly says:
Totally OT Buddy but I thought I’d hit you with a bit of personal trivia and others on here may appreciate. A FB friend of mine was at the concert in Moorhead (Fargo) Minnesota at which Buddy was meant to appear but never unfortunately made. He was from Fargo and he himself was a young musician and only realised that evening that the guy on stage singing on that fateful night was a chap he had met earlier in the summer at a local open air swimming pool in Fargo. Here’s his little take on that evening I hope you find of interest that he put up on FB.
“Six months later we were all so very excited on Feb. 3rd,’59 to know we were going to see the great Buddy Holly, Dion & the Belmonts, Ritchie Valens, The ‘Big Bopper’ & Frankie Sardo at the Morehead, Minn. ‘Armory’.
We were ‘beyond’ devastated when we learned the plane had crashed in an Iowa blizzard, but the ‘show’ was going to go on anyway…
The opening ‘act’ was a young kid who sang appropriately “He’s Got The Whole World In His Hands”, and then the announcer said please welcome a new local band,…’BOBBY VEE & THE ‘SHADOWS’ ! — I thought OMG, that’s my friend from the swimming pool…!! – They were fabulous, and a local businessman took a liking to them and history was born that night.
After Bobby hit with his third record of “Devil Or Angel” they brought me aboard as rhythm guitarist & vocalist at 16 yrs old in 1960. — Thank you Bobby Vee for all your loyal friendship for the last 55 years, and a definite ‘leg-up’ in the music world !!
BDO Report deadline 12 Dec – So what may `forthcome` – let’s see;
They will have – say – had two more meeting since with the “Committee” liaising to update on their investigation’s and forward strategies [all strictly confidential don`t you know]
They may report on SPL Tribunal costs
Receipts seems to be a done deal
Book debts of 2m being chased – [cover some fees] – they`ll deffo report on that
EBT stuff in abeyance till the UTT thing sorted
They may report on former director’s conduct prior to administration but that’s a standard closed report to the “Board of Trade” – so taxpaying public have no idea what happened.
Nothing real to report on the CB 25m action – except legal costs [another deffo]
That leaves [as an outside possibility];
Events leading up to administration and conduct of former Joint Administrators
And, possibly some investigations reports
Well, – the joint admins were `independently` found whiter than white by the IPA 😉
And, investigations are ongoing – but they couldn`t possibly comment due to sensitivity of anything like that – and if they tried to they`re more than likely to go on the `haters list`
Suppose they might also mention that the creditors will get diddly squat – and perhaps indicate when the liquidation may end [or fees run out]
Whether CB case yields 25m is anyone’s guess – but it`ll throw up more [confidential] info.
Which is the interesting thing really – this BDO thing you would imagine is a complete waste of time and money & just for show – but not necessarily so. HMRC + TU will have access to books data and so on – and they`ll be the parties doing their own investigations. Those guys don`t need BDO to press any actions [or wait years to do so] – and could get all the miscreants where it hurts
So the `field of play` may not be as simple as we imagine
Meanwhile – back at the ranch
Sevco 5088 not in the `news` – fancy that
I did post something along these lines on RTC but I would easily have accepted a team called Rangers if they had acknowledged all their wrong doings. I would also have expected a change of emblem and distinct separation from old club and new. The SFA remind me of poor management at work, there is someone who is upsetting the team, coming in late, leaving early, taking to long for lunch, a strong individual who likes to get the last word, hard to manage. They should be put in their place and you have to show that you deserve respect and that you are the boss, but the problem is the manager (SFA) shy away from their responsibility, insipid & weak, can’t handle conflict and we see the results.
Briggsbhoy, your comment is timely. I was about to post that, if my memory is correct, Stewart Regan clarified, on Radio Scotland, the definitive position re new club/old club. Did he not say something like ‘it’s up to the fans to decide’? If I’ve dreamt that I apologise.
Can I decide that Clyde didn’t lose an injury time equaliser at Hampden last week? Can I? Can I?
Scared to Formalise an Answer
briggsbhoy says: (741)
November 17, 2013 at 8:01 pm
Just to add another dimension, the ‘manager’ isn’t only insipid & weak, but is also compromised by his or their own guilty, underhand, deceitful and unethical professional performance.
Flocculent Apoidea says: (8)
November 17, 2013 at 8:21 pm
Naw yi cannae, they lost.
There was a TV interview with Regan I’m sure on BBC in which he danced round the question about Rangers old or new, he basically said that it was up to individuals to decide or words to that effect, fudging and unassertive management. Maybe Rory Is Tony ! rather than question or challenge just accept it
New blog from Phil on the sudden reluctance of Keith Jackson to put the record straight as advertised on Jack Irvine’s criticism of the DR as per advance advertising…………
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 17m
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/somer-right-and-somer-are-very-wrong/#more-4183 …
Oh dear….
#DailyRecord
jean7brodie says: (356)
November 17, 2013 at 8:29 pm
Not sure I would argue with that. A bit like the boss who’s been having a bit on the side with the eye Candy in the office and as a result has lost all ability to manage that person other that through tinted specs. I’ve only heard about this sort of management or seen it of course 🙂
briggsbhoy says: (742)
November 17, 2013 at 8:33 pm
Flocculent Apoidea says: (8)
November 17, 2013 at 8:21 pm
Naw yi cannae, they lost.
There was a TV interview with Regan I’m sure on BBC in which he danced round the question about Rangers old or new, he basically said that it was up to individuals to decide or words to that effect, fudging and unassertive management. Maybe Rory Is Tony ! rather than question or challenge just accept it.
………………..
One can only draw the conclusion that the avoidance of the SFA to openly announce they are the same club…is that they are not
And if indeed he did say…it’s up to the fans/individuals to decide …THEN HE KNOWS THEY ARE NOT THE SAME CLUB…but is scared to say so…
Flocculent Apoidea says: (8)
November 17, 2013 at 8:21 pm
Briggsbhoy, your comment is timely. I was about to post that, if my memory is correct, Stewart Regan clarified, on Radio Scotland, the definitive position re new club/old club. Did he not say something like ‘it’s up to the fans to decide’? If I’ve dreamt that I apologise.
Can I decide that Clyde didn’t lose an injury time equaliser at Hampden last week? Can I? Can I?
Scared to Formalise an Answer
========================================================
I would love an answer!
It’s a very simple question, not requiring a flippant answer like “it’s up to the fans to decide”
The question is:
“Mr Regan, are the club currently playing in the Scottish 1st Division known as The Rangers the same club formely known as Rangers FC until they were liquidated? A simple Yes or No will be acceptable”
Simples!
p.s. Fond memories of that Clyde team which won the 2nd Div Championship in 2000.
blackboab says: (17)
November 17, 2013 at 1:07 pm
Just wondering…if sevco ever get back to the top division……
——————
Sevco have never been in the top division!
Stewart Regan will not answer the ‘same club?’ question.
Nobody will ask him that question.
Well, nobody whose voice will be heard anyway.
Oh to have a Q&A session with some of the TSFM big hitters.
justshatered says: (255)
November 17, 2013 at 3:07 pm
The hint that the pundits on last nights SSB were told to steer away from the subject saying Lawwell was wrong and only to say that it has caused an issue says it all really.
If this is true legal counsel has advised them to stay clear of this. Did they ever stop to think why this would be the case?
Would it possibly be because Lawwell is actually correct?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Spot On JS
In a previous post I suggested PL may have fired the first shot in an effort by Celtic to destroy the idea of an Old Firm that never dies
If indeed there is a sound legal basis for describing TRFC as a football Club that impersonates but is not a continuation of RFC then CFC could make this story run for years
Eventually some clown would fail in a legal action that attempted to close the debate and do us all a favour.
Not least the taxpayers who have had their noses rubbed in the dirt by this charade
When I was paranoid I thought that the lying bastards were lying to me.
Now that I am obsessed I know that the lying bastards are lying to me.
I just wish that they would all stop lying.
briggsbhoy says: (743)
November 17, 2013 at 8:45 pm
Of course 😉
I worked in the public sector and, unfortunately, saw it daily 😥
As Exiled Celt says here’s the story NOT Lawell. NOR yes they are no their not:
Craigies back in town Wothington I assume have raised enough cash to get the Law financial gig on the move as they intimated in their last Aim statement.
David Low @Heavidor 36m
@PeterAdamSmith @kevbhoy4 @fooshtoosh That’s not the story. The story is 5088 iowned by WG, raising funds to get its football club back.
David Low @Heavidor 42m
@Reckoner1888 @fooshtoosh @PeterAdamSmith No one in the SMSM has understood or covered the full import of what Worthington alleges.
Below is an extract from the IPO document ,it looks like Charles has done them all up like kippers,in that he gave himself an out knowing that Craigy Boy would show up sooner or later,and there’s not a thing any of the shareholders can do about it.
Exposure to litigation
Given the high profile and complex environment in which the Rangers Group operates, many aspects of
the Rangers Group’s and the RFCL Group’s businesses could be exposed to a risk of litigation or
arbitration proceedings (such as matters involving player disputes and disciplinary action, football
regulatory issues and operational arrangements with third parties). There is also uncertainty caused by
RFC 2012 plc becoming insolvent and the manner in which RFCL acquired the assets and business of
the Club pursuant to the APA, which is described in more detail in the risk factor below. Any litigation
or arbitration proceedings which are brought against any member of the Rangers Group or the RFCL
Group may have a material adverse effect on the Rangers Group’s or the RFCL Group’s business growth,
prospects, sales, results of operations and/or financial condition. The Rangers Group’s and RFCL Group’s
insurance may not necessarily cover any and all claims brought against the Rangers Group or the RFCL
Group or liabilities in respect of any such claim. The risk of litigation arising as a result of the acquisition
of the assets and business of the Club has been mitigated by the lapse of time since the acquisition was
completed on the 14 June 2012 as the Directors consider that any material liabilities would have become
known by now.
13
Whilst the oldco/ newco debate is an interesting one, requiring an absolute and definative answer from the SFA, I had a few moments to pause and think of what has happened over the last 2 years!
Whilst doing so, my blood has started to boil over. Whilst I am still in the mood, in no partcular order:
Rangers were the subjects of 3 independent tax dodges. The Big Tax Case, The Wee Tax Case and the undisputable withholding of PAYE and VAT.
They were convicted of 2 so far, the 3rd still going through an appeals tribunal.
From the 2 convictions, they owed as far as I can see £9M and £4M (£13M)
From this, they went into administration and consequently liquidation.
For most companies, this would have been the death knell! No more! Creditors stuffed, taxpayers stuffed.
Now, we all watch Rogue Traders. There have been many businesses in the past that have stuffed creditors. However, there are not many that stick around in the same premises and rub peoples noses in it!
Most Rogue Traders keep their heads down and relocate to a different area to start up their cowboy enterprises again.
Not this lot in Edmiston Drive. They’ve decided they are still Rangers. They have kept the same manager and coaching staff on the same salary. They wear the same strip and claim the history as well. They are recruiting expensive SPL Players to play in the 3rd tier of Scottish Football against part Timers. They have a revolving door of directors/ leeches walking out with £hundreds of thousands on a regular basis.
They can even employ expensive PR Guru’s like the Snake Oil salesman called Jack Irvine!
Somehow, they also seem to terrorise the MSM into subversion at the click of a finger!
We also have the Conflicted One (CO) at the SFA, who is right up to his armpits with the stench that has followed both his time at Rangers and Hearts.
Somehow he manages to cling onto his position as President of The Scottish Football Association. Why he hasn’t been punted yet is a mystery to me. He is highly compromised, has already admitted to receiving a 95 Grand EBT, and says Eff All publicly! Why is he there?
The MSM? This lot are now beginning to cack themselves as the heat is turning up. I used to think TE was ok, but after listening to him last night he’s a fence sitter! Stuart Cosgrove has gone all neutral, hasn’t even been on here for a while. He hasn’t been very critical on OTB either lately. Stuart, are you under orders from above to keep quite, or at least not to rock the boat?
All in all, it’s been a tacky affair. Feeling better for getting that off my chest!
chancer67 says: (94)
November 17, 2013 at 10:10 pm
But what if the LBC was BEFORE the IPO meaning the last part “as the Directors consider that any material liabilities would have become known by now” was actually known. Please see date on the LBC…..
Fr. Paul Stone @FrPaulStone 43m
Further to our Craig Whyte chat earlier this week, this is the LBC I mentioned –> http://www.scribd.com/doc/141684147/RFC-Letter-Before-Claim … Terrifying stuff!
Lord Wobbly says: (970)
November 17, 2013 at 2:21 pm
‘…..There is an Ogilvie Godfrey family tree website that includes the Surgeon General, but contains far too many Ogilvy and Ogilvie descendants for me to follow. Obviously a sizeable number have Scottish links. Anyone care to pick up the trail?…’
———-
I believe, miLord, that there was an Ogilvie undeservedly hanged at Glasgow Cross in 1615.
Would it be too de trop to enjoy contemplating the metaphorical but deserved hanging of a ( perhaps) descendant of distant family connection? 😀
Paulmac2 says: (782) November 17, 2013 at 8:53 pm
briggsbhoy says: (742) November 17, 2013 at 8:33 pm
Flocculent Apoidea says: (8) November 17, 2013 at 8:21 pm
There was a TV interview with Regan I’m sure on BBC in which he danced round the question about Rangers old or new, he basically said that it was up to individuals to decide or words to that effect, fudging and unassertive management. Maybe Rory Is Tony ! rather than question or challenge just accept it.
………………..
One can only draw the conclusion that the avoidance of the SFA to openly announce they are the same club…is that they are not
And if indeed he did say…it’s up to the fans/individuals to decide …THEN HE KNOWS THEY ARE NOT THE SAME CLUB…but is scared to say so…
======================================
Here is the link to the interview on 31/07/12 where Regan avoids a straight answer to the question by fudging his response. The relevant section is from 11:35 to 13:02 minutes into the interview.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19068235
If Worthingtons have that documented, it really might be game, set and match
Hi
First post after lurking since RTC days.
Peter Lawwell was appointed to the SFA board on 3 September.
Would he have made the BremnerCo comment if he had not been
in that position? I’ve not really seen any emphasis on the fact that
PL is now an SFA board member in the MSM, rather than them purely
concentrating on the CFC PLC AGM origin context of the “offending”
comment. Surely PL or any CFC official could have sneaked a wee
Dr Who regeneration comment in at any time? Is it a calculated poking
of a stick in the hornets nest knowing that there is full protective clothing
in place?
TC NR1