Charles Green has declared war on the Scottish football authorities. His statement and that of Duff and Phelps today deserve detailed analysis, which is ongoing at McConville Towers as we speak, and will be concluded as soon as Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster and Peter Lawwell tell me what to write.
For now, I wanted to speculate if Mr Green had managed to forget the terms of the SFA Rules, under which Rangers FC was censured for his comments some time ago. Mr Green could well have forgotten, as the censure took place as long as eleven days ago.
The relevant rules are as follows:
Rule 1: All member clubs shall:
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play;
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect of the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.
Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Officials and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.
Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.
Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.
Now let’s see where Mr Green might, through inadvertence, have sinned against those rules, accidentally of course. The following are extracted from his statement on the official Rangers FC website.
“Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.
…
“Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff. I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.
…
“Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission? Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all? No. They did absolutely nothing.
“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us – as the new owners – took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.
“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.
“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.
“I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.
…
“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.
“The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.
…
“Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?
“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.
…
“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.
“It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.
“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.
“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.”
——————————————————
Have a read through these edited highlights once again…
The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening … the Commission is not independent of the SPL … They (the SPL) did absolutely nothing … the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga … a full blown inquisition … it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position … we believe the SPL have been hypocritical … There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible … It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions … Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.
——————————————————
Mr Green has issued a lengthy statement, as can be seen from the fact that what is shown above is only an extract from it. It is on the official Rangers website, and is stated to be by “Rangers Football Club”.
If this is not a declaration of war on the SPL and by extension the footballing authorities in Scotland, I don’t know what is.
I spoke to a friend who compared some of Mr Green’s recent statements to what has become known as “dog whistle politics”. There is little of the dog-whistle about this – instead it is a clear rallying cry to the loyal support of Rangers, which will, I am sure ensure that the turnstiles keep clicking at Ibrox for some time yet.
As of a few minutes ago the respective posts regarding the statement on two of the main Rangers FC fan sites showed a total of 867 posts and over 26,000 views. Not bad for a statement issued two hours ago!
I also suspect that the reaction there will be 100% positive.
Deciding that they are refusing to play and denouncing the process before the first hearing takes place is an interesting tactic. Now, if the Commission proceeds, in the absence of both oldco Rangers and newco Rangers and delivers a damning judgement, it will be ignored, it appears, by Mr Green and his company. And, if action is taken, then they propose to invoke the aid of the courts to stop disciplinary action happening.
What strikes me is that, once again, Mr Green is playing a masterful hand. He is a king of diversion. When the transfer of the SFA membership took place Mr Green said:-
“There remains, however, an outstanding issue with the SPL regarding EBTs. As we have proved in the last couple of months we will stand up to any challenges that face Rangers and will continue to fight for the Club’s best interests.”
What he has managed to do is to build the impression that the one penalty, above all others, which newco will not accept, being the most horrendous possible, is the stripping of titles. Not being barred for all time from, membership of the SPL; not being suspended for a longer period than the next three years; not the imposition of further financial penalties…
No, the one penalty to be fought against, above all others, is one which will cost newco not a penny, and will in fact generate more support from the fans.
As I said, it is brilliant!
He has challenged the football authorities to take action, as indeed he promised he would. So much gratitude for the three ruling bodies pledging to “facilitate” Rangers entry to SFL3!
And as far as his attack on some, but not all, SPL teams, one wonders why he felt constrained from telling us who they were. After all, Ibrox is the home of clarity, transparency and free speech!
However the extracts above indicate numerous ways in which the rules quoted at the top of this piece are broken. Will the SFA have the courage of its convictions to take action? Will the SFL take any steps itself?
Or has Mr Green stared them down, and, as long as the share flotation comes along in the near future, enraptured the fans into subscribing in their thousands?
As has been the case ever since RTC started, this piece could end with the line:- we have no idea what will happen next; we will have to wait and see!
Posted by Paul McConville
Hamerdoon – and to be fair the Bears, they don’t have any choice at all. If CG does not work and/or he runs away with the money or goes into liquidation again, there was no alternative for them.
All their heroes they would have followed all let them down – The Blue Nights and/or Lord Hee Haw of Caridganshire (incidently the worst manager officially in CL for percentage of wins (14%) for any manager who has managed more than 20 games) all walked away and left them.
From the moderate to the most bogoted fan – none of them have a choice other than CG.
Theirs in the last chance saloon – even if it were to come out tomorrow that CG is indeed CW’s long lost brother, they coudl hardly chase him out of town.
Thanks to SDM the black hole that swalloed all the money up and made Bill Millar run for the Ozarks made sure no one else other than a Dubai prince or a venture capitalist woudl be interested ot help out. And Dubai princes have bigger fish to fry than RFC-NIL.
CG knows it
Bears know it
SFA/SPL/SFL know it
He is the only show in town
Goosy says:
September 12, 2012 at 00:35(Edit)
Goosy
whilst I agree with the principle that there are Directors who rule the roost and there are Directors who are mere nodding dogs– especially in large PLC’s—- in law they share the same duties and responsibilities.
Rangers PLC was not a mega company either in terms of turnover or in terms of structure. It had a relatively small board and management structure and it was overloaded with people who knew the business rules and where to look for Directors failings.
Odam. Dickson, P Murray, D Murray, King, Muir, McLelland, Johnston, Ogilvie and Bain— these are all people with business and professional backgrounds– not ex players and mere titular figures.
Whatsmore there were other people from the tiers below that who expressed concerns about buisness practices and ultimately left as they felt uncomfortable about certain matters.
Further, they had the benefit of Grant Thornton’s professional input and of course don’t forget that at sometime, somewhere, someone advised them to seek professional advice from Panell Kerr re Directors personal liability.
They cannot plead Ignorantia non fit Inuria– Ignorance of the law as an excuse– as they are deemed to know what their duties and responsibilities were.
Now of course if certain actions and activities were authorised and conducted on the orders of only one or two directors and without the knowledge of the rest….. then that is a different matter.
For example– who approved Bain’s ever changing remuneration package ( remember it always seemed to change by letter and addendum rather than a new contract document from scratch ) and who authorised or recommended payments to Graham Souness years after he left the club and why?
The Board minutes alone will make for very interesting reading.
From the Herald
Does Green actually buy this stuff? Let’s take a look Does Green actually buy this stuff? Let’s take a look
Roger Mitchell
For someone who claimed the Scottish Premier League was a really bad idea a few weeks ago, I found myself surprised that I felt the strong urge to defend my former organisation in the face of the bombast from Charles Green.
I truly hope by the time that this is read, someone officially representing the SPL will have done likewise. I ask myself, does Green actually buy this stuff? Let’s take a look:
Claim 1 Rangers ceased to be subject to the SPL’s rules when they were ejected from their league.
Fact Rangers oldco was not ejected from the SPL. The fact that Rangers went into liquidation automatically expelled them from the league. The SPL shareholders then decided not to make an exception and let them back in. Two very different things.
Claim 2 The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.
Fact What the SPL are deciding upon is whether their tournament and their trophy was assigned to the correct club in the years in question.
The SPL have every right to examine whether participants in their competition behaved within the rules. And if they find they haven’t, they can apply their rule book as recourse. More Green nonsense.
I do, however, agree with him that “whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL”. Indeed. But the SPL should be proud of that, and not hide behind the Law Lords.
The SPL are examining the conduct of the participants in their competition well before Rangers went into liquidation, in particular the conduct of the club then owned by Sir David Murray, with the club secretary role (in charge of those player registrations) held by Campbell Ogilvie (whatever happened to him?). Charles Green and Sevco have nothing to do with this. Whatsoever.
Claim 3 The new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies.
Fact Green said on June 2012 that if his CVA proposal was to fail (which it did) and Rangers were to be liquidated (which they are), “the history, the tradition, everything that’s great about this club is swept aside”.
Therefore he admits he has not purchased titles and trophies. Sevco has no titles and trophies.
By the way, Charles, I would not provoke commentators like me to dig this up, because what you said is not what the Rangers fans want to hear now, as you now correctly realise. Let it lie, Charlie, let it lie.
So, even one with a leaning towards Govan would argue that, under the most superficial scrutiny, Green’s attack is less than robust. But sometimes you have to chuck a dog a bone. So, to be fair, Charlie is right with his complaint on the SPL’s lack of consistency,
Green states: “The SPL took part in discussions regarding the new company’s league status, where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership.
“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full-blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.”
Sadly this falls into the general shambles of the management of the affair by the SFA/SPL. I made my own view clear on the leadership of both bodies in the summer. But I cannot see how the credibility of the current process on a simple point of law over false registration of players with Employee Benefit Trusts (being handled by independent top QCs) can be derailed by claims that the prosecutor behaved incoherently months earlier.
Good debating point, Charles, but it’s not enough. Instead, all of us who love the game and who hold true sporting values in our hearts have a simple question: Did Rangers oldco gain unfair advantage by registering players on a basis where their full employment conditions were not declared to the SPL/SFA?
In my mind the answer is undoubtedly ‘yes’. But let’s not forget the lessons of Versailles: bloodlust rebounds.
The SPL enquiry punishment doesn’t arouse great passion in me. And it shouldn’t either for Celtic fans. For them I’d argue the victory is in the fact that their greatest rival died.
The 125-year long struggle ended with the collapse of the adversary. The war was won. Achilles vanquished Hector.
In closing, from Mark Anthony onwards history tells us that well-crafted oratory can influence the mob.
While Charles Green is no great speaker or statesman, I must admit, he is no dummy. And there is no doubt that his audience is the mob, whose money and favour he needs in order to exit the Rangers investment project with a financial return.
Stoking up hatred has always energised “the base”, another example of which we saw in the Republican convention in these days.
Well done, Charles. Initial Public Offering of shares here we come.
For Scottish football, the days of enlightenment around the Tommy Burns funeral are long gone, and I fear the worst.
that’s the second time in as many days that I’ve heard rangers compared to Jesus. First on clyde ssb on Monday and now by AJ. will someone please tell them, “They’re not the messiah they’re Just very naughty boys”. (sorry couldn’t resist that one)
Roger Mitchell puts the issues in perspective and simplifies them for an audience , which is maybe not as expert on the subject as the followers of his site, and the RTC original
Now Traynor and the rest of the MSM understand what Roger does. They could articulate it in precisely the same manner. After all it’s not opinion, it’s Fact.
However due to failing to uphold the code of the NUJ, which forbids members from printing propaganda and forbids members from taking commercial interests into consideration, they have lost the right to be considered journalists
They are no such thing . They , with a few honorable exceptions, are PR agents for what passes as Rangers. Their failure to comment on the financial lunacy of Murray, contributed to Rangers death. It may not have been the most significant factor, however it was important.
They are now repeating the trick by allowing Green and McCoist to ferment hatred, which has dangerous consequences for Scottish society as well as Scottish football. Green and McCoist are playing a very dangerous game for their own financial benefit. Murray did it before them, and Whyte tried to but failed .
Surely opposing individuals who are put their own finances ahead of a safe society, should be opposed by an honest media. Green and McCoist are holding the media to ransom, and most are too gutless to say anything.
We need a new Scotland’s Shame banner with the arrow pointed at the press box
iki says:
September 11, 2012 at 23:44
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Goosy says:
September 11, 2012 at 23:40
He knew RFC were insolvent in 2011.
———–
Was this while he was Chairman?
=========
I am reposting this.
If the answer is ‘yes’, then was he acting unlawfully by continuing to trade?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 12, 2012 at 08:16
“In closing, from Mark Anthony onwards history tells us that well-crafted oratory can influence the mob.
While Charles Green is no great speaker or statesman, I must admit, he is no dummy. And there is no doubt that his audience is the mob, whose money and favour he needs in order to exit the Rangers investment project with a financial return.
Stoking up hatred has always energised “the base”, another example of which we saw in the Republican convention in these days.
Well done, Charles. Initial Public Offering of shares here we come.”
=====================================================
Now why oh why did no jounalists have the cajones to write something like this. Or do you have to be based outwith our country to be free of fear.
Celtic67
Masonic references…. give it a rest.
———————————————-
Certainly not. These people have been at the centre of the cheating for decades and need to be exposed. They have been central to Rangers’ ‘proud’ history, members of the board, infected Scottish football’s governance and even influenced refereeing decisions over the piece.
If Scottish football is ever to recover, their malevolant and unfair influence has to be removed from the game completely. As Roger Mitchell states in The Herald, “well crafted oratory can influence the mob.” Time for it to stop.
Openness, accountability, without fear or FAVOUR.
Celtic67
Masonic references…. give it a rest.
———————————————-
Spoken like a true Mason 🙂
But then I suppose us non Masons are just being paranoid eh 😉
smallteaser says:
September 11, 2012 at 23:31
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Doon the slope says:
September 11, 2012 at 22:27
“Finally, I would hope that the panel which has been charged with investigating Rangers’ activities will draw a large circle around a universe of reference points that should be considered in assessing the magnitude of the allegations made against the Club.”
A very strange choice of words indeed!
—————————————————————————————–
AJ basically saying “PROVE IT”!!
Gödel proved that there are ALWAYS more things that are true than you can prove. Any system of logic or numbers that mathematicians ever came up with will always rest on at least a few unprovable assumptions.
http://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/
===================================================================
Small teaser…you have once and for all proved (sic!) that my parents committed a grave error in putting me through the Scottish Education system.
From your link, and from the other erudite posts on here, I now now that they should have enrolled me on here, from the age of 5…I would have learnt just as much, in a fraction of the time!
Many thanks indeed
CMC says:
September 11, 2012 at 23:35
13 2 Rate This
‘I truly believe we’d see Sevco plying their trade in the SPL this season and because of this, anyone who isn’t a fan of Sevco should never buy a tabloid ever again’
CMC,
Even Servconians should desist from ever buying a tabloid again – after all, the MSM aided and abetted the downfall of Servco by ‘killing them with kindness’ and not reporting the real financial scandal emanating from Ibrox – talk about poetic justice!.
Celtic67
Masonic references…. give it a rest.
———–
AJ’s choice of language is a legitimate subject for debate and examination.
We parse/analyse the outpourings of all concerned in this saga. It is one of the ways in which we learn what is being revealed and what is being concealed.
AJ chose to use two words, ‘Surrender’ and ‘No’ and invited us to put them together.
I think it fair to draw conclusions from his choice of vocabulary.
I have little knowledge of the Brotherhood but if he has chosen to make references ….. and I do not include the abpve example …… that others consider to be masonic then I am thankful if someone enlightens me
Celtic67 says:
September 12, 2012 at 01:27
To those who mentioned “masonic references” give it a rest please. Stick to what you are good at. I am not saying that you know nothing about said references, I am only trying to point out that is a discussion for another time.
——–
I can agree and disagree with that. It could be just an ingrained habit of AJ’s to use geometric language, but equally it may be part of the overarching 🙂 issue.
For AJ to include such blatantly masonic geometric language in his statement – and direct it at those who are about to exert their apparent authority, at least some of whom are probably members of the relevant society – should not go without comment (even though mine appears to have been deleted from last night).
Having said that, society members are sworn to uphold the law and do what is morally correct, rather than the commonly perceived notion that they look after other members above all. So we should have no worries.
Herald website seems to have taken down that excellent Roger Mitchell take-down of Charles Green.
One of my favourite parts of the shallow A(Surrender No)J ramblings..
“During most of the period under investigation by the upcoming SPL Tribunal, he as well as his company enjoyed a very mutually productive relationship with the Bank of Scotland”.
Yeh AJ sure..very mutually very productive,can you spot the common thread in that…
MIH… ? BUST !! BoS…? BUST !! RFC…? BUST !!
Away n get back on yir sunbed & take your fake jockaneez accent wi you,.!!
You completely pathetic sad fud of a man ..
Goosy says:
September 12, 2012 at 00:35
Every big RFC decision that mattered was taken by MIM meaning SDM and later SDM/LBG
Sure AJ could take the moral high ground and declare he woud resign rather than have his board make decisions forced on them by MIM/LBG
But we need to live in the real world
And in the real world this rarely happens
The RFC Board comprised Mickey Mouse Directors just as happens all across industry
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Goosy, in the real world this is not an excuse, nor is it valid in a court of law.
Can anyone explain the exact “masonic” element of that quote from Surrender-No?
I don’t know anything about the masons, but if this is just innuendo spawned by a peculiar turn of phrase, I’d rather not hear it.
If there is some substance to it however, I’m all ears.
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:30
It is still there but not on the 1st page you get to if you just click ‘Sport’
You have to then click on the ‘Football’ link to see it.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 12, 2012 at 00:02
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Remember– Rangers had a number of CA’s and professional types on their board- as did MIH. (my edit)
===================================================================
BRTH…more heady but superb stuff!
I have banged on a few times since 14 February last, about my fellow “professionals” and their behaviour.
By my reckoning, there must have been at least 12 CAs over the years in question from both the RFC and MIH camps…and only one I believe “resigned” of his own volition.
The concept of the “whistleblower” was discussed on RTC, more in the context of the then incumbent, a Mr Oliver, and what he should or should not have done, leading to various suggestions from posters.
There is by the way, specific advice published for CAs as to how they should act in the face of the “dominant” director, in this case, (-)SDM.
As with the reputation of Scottish sporting integrity, these “professional finance” persons, have damaged the reputation of Scottish financial integrity (along with a few others of course!)
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:46
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Can anyone explain the exact “masonic” element of that quote from Surrender-No?
=========
If your question arises from my post at 9.22 then I would point out that I did not mean that it was a masonic reference. In fact, I thought I had made it clear that the example was not included.
Sorry, if I caused confusion.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 12, 2012 at 08:16
From the Herald
Does Green actually buy this stuff? …
——–
Sorry, but it’s not clear – is this actually a published print piece?
If it was, I’m quite impressed. Mr Mitchell’s head firmly above the parapet.
The Herald article is available online now:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look-does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look.18857922
@iki
No, nothing to do with your post – I think we are both seeking the same thing – a bit more evidence that S-N’s concluding remarks were somehow masonic references.
Essex beancounter says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:04
http://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/
===================================================================
Small teaser…you have once and for all proved (sic!) that my parents committed a grave error in putting me through the Scottish Education system.
From your link, and from the other erudite posts on here, I now now that they should have enrolled me on here, from the age of 5…I would have learnt just as much, in a fraction of the time!
Many thanks indeed
===============================================================
EBC, hope you read all about God and the meaning of life in this piece, where “the biggest Circle around the whole universe” is actually mentioned.
“Now please consider what happens when we draw the biggest circle possibly can – around the whole universe. (If there are multiple universes, we’re drawing a circle around all of them too):
•There has to be something outside that circle. Something which we have to assume but cannot prove
•The universe as we know it is finite – finite matter, finite energy, finite space and 13.7 billion years time
•The universe is mathematical. Any physical system subjected to measurement performs arithmetic. (You don’t need to know math to do addition – you can use an abacus instead and it will give you the right answer every time.)
•The universe (all matter, energy, space and time) cannot explain itself
•Whatever is outside the biggest circle is boundless. By definition it is not possible to draw a circle around it.
•If we draw a circle around all matter, energy, space and time and apply Gödel’s theorem, then we know what is outside that circle is not matter, is not energy, is not space and is not time. It’s immaterial.
•Whatever is outside the biggest circle is not a system – i.e. is not an assemblage of parts. Otherwise we could draw a circle around them. The thing outside the biggest circle is indivisible.
•Whatever is outside the biggest circle is an uncaused cause, because you can always draw a circle around an effect.
We can apply the same inductive reasoning to the origin of information:
•In the history of the universe we also see the introduction of information, some 3.5 billion years ago. It came in the form of the Genetic code, which is symbolic and immaterial.
•The information had to come from the outside, since information is not known to be an inherent property of matter, energy, space or time
•All codes we know the origin of are designed by conscious beings.
•Therefore whatever is outside the largest circle is a conscious being.
In other words when we add information to the equation, we conclude that not only is the thing outside the biggest circle infinite and immaterial, it is also conscious.
Isn’t it interesting how all these things sound suspiciously similar to how theologians have described God for thousands of years?
So it’s hardly surprising that 80-90% of the people in the world believe in some concept of God. Yes, it’s intuitive to most folks. But Gödel’s theorem indicates it’s also supremely logical. In fact it’s the only position one can take and stay in the realm of reason and logic.
The person who proudly proclaims, “You’re a man of faith, but I’m a man of science” doesn’t understand the roots of science or the nature of knowledge!”
Just received my copy of downfall. Delivered to work address. It has pages, a cover and everything!
Green states: “The SPL took part in discussions regarding the new company’s league status, where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership.
“We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full-blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.”
——————————–
is this not very like plea bargaining?
for example, the SPL will admit you if you agree to a series of sanctions and punishments for the bad behaviour of RFC – i.e. the “EBT” issue
(yes, i know, it’s the non disclosed payments that are the issue or “dual contracts” if you will)
Did Chuckie agree? I believe the answer was a very firm NO. So firm in fact, that even Ally said NO and Chuckie agreed with that.
So, you were offered a bargain to gain entry – you refused it.
In doing so, you lost the chance to accept a lighter sanction – that is off the table now. The SPL will now, at great expense, investigate these allegations of rule breaking and if proven they will punish the offender – this will mean removing the titles (not actually a punishment) and then they could pursue repayment of prize money “won” as compensation ot other clubs cheated. It could seek to recover UEFA monies “won” for entry into the CL – which was denied to other clubs. They could simply ban you sine die from the SPL – and that means your only hope of European football in the future will be by winning the Scottish Cup
however, if proven, i expect the SFA/SFL and UEFA will all have to examine their records – and they may punish you for cheating in their competitions – no SFA license would pull the rug from under you completely, but you could find yourself binned form SFL competitions and banned from UEFA compeitions as well.
In terms of stripping titles the issue is a simple one.
In what year did it become a rule with the various Scottish Football authorities that ALL payments to players needed to be included on player registration forms?
At any time after this rule was brought in did Rangers FC(IA) include or exclude details of the publically acknowledged EBT scheme on the paperwork required for player registrations?
If they included details of the EBT on player registration documentation was there enough detail provided to satisify the Footballing Authorities that all payments were being decalred?
If they included details and this was acknowledged / signed off by the Footballing Authorities with no further questions being asked then in footballing terms there is no case to answer. Titles intact.
If EBT details were excluded, then why were they not included?
Was this some form of administrative error?
What procedures at both RFC(IA) and the Footballing Authorities were in place and used to check, counter check and update checking procedures to ensure the current players registration requirements were being followed?
Unlikley that any titles would be stripped if all parties were found to be lacking in operational procedures.
Were they not included as RFC(IA) viewed them not to be payments and/or that they were some other financial transaction that fell outwith those required to be sent to the Footballing Authorities?
If this is the argument then can it be shown that the EBT payments were or were not of a nature that required to be declared on the player registration documents in line with footballing rules?
If they were of a nature not required by the footballing rules (regardless of how the tax man sees them) then titles remain intact.
If they are deemed to be in any way contractural in terms of footballing rules (regardless of how the tax man sees them) then it appears this does not meet the requirement for correct player registrations.
In this case then what punishment should be issued for each individual transgression.
Precedent in footballing terms is revising each relevant match score to become a 0-3 defeat for playing incorrectly /illegally registered players, explusion from an ongoing cup competition or replaying of a tie.
Take your pick, they should all result in the record books being altered.
Then add to that wider punishments for bringing the game into disrepute etc etc.
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:46
Can anyone explain the exact “masonic” element of that quote from Surrender-No?
——–
Not quite sure what you refer to, but if you mean the most obvious paragraph in AJ’s comment it is this (I posted this last night, but my post has been deleted) …
“Finally, I would hope that the panel which has been charged with investigating Rangers’ activities will draw a large circle around a universe of relevant reference points that should be considered in assessing the magnitude of the allegations made against the Club.”
Firstly, there are buzzwords. “Universe” and “magnitude”, “architecture” earlier in the statement. These kind of words are dropped into conversation by Masons to see if they get a response by which the speaker can recognise a brother. Used in text, it becomes noticeable when several “geometric” terms, or references to the universe – even words relating to “master” and its Latin root “magister” – are employed. The word “charge” has connotations relating to the rules of freemasonry.
The “point within a circle” is one of the mason’s mystical symbols. It is open to interpretation in several ways, most commonly the relationship between the individual and the scope of his duty to others.
Taken singularly, these words have only their surface meaning. When as many of them as possible are shoehorned into one sentence, a brother will spot it a mile away.
I am in no doubt that this paragraph in particular is a direct appeal to any members of the brotherhood who are involved on “the panel”. And let’s face it, given their occupation, chances are that at least some of them are brothers too.
BRTH/Goosy
I remember Alisdair “Surrender, No” Johnstone saying in Daly’s BBC investigation that the Rangers board assumed debt wasn’t a problem because Murray would pay it off – they were the board of a plc – I was aghast at that attitude.
It confirms both of your positions – the board knew they were stuffed but they were hitched to Murray’s wagon so they went along for the ride…
I have received an E-Mail from Amazon informing me that there will be a delay in posting my order of “Downfall” due to Amazon having problems with their supplier. Have any posters on here received similar notification and is there something going on here.
I have heard that in bookshops the display of Phil’s book is being restricted and is being sold “under the counter” so to speak.
I don’t know if there are secret messages hidden within his statement
What I do know, is that the style of language and vocabulary used, is not what I would expect from the ex chairman of a PLC, when attempting to defend the behaviour of said PLC
John Anthony says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:50
==========================================================================
Got the same E-Mail yesterday,mate.
Please don’t be so naive – the Brotherhood is at
work in all of this 😉
Got a very prompt reply this morning from the SFL to my e-mail from last night.
Won’t repeat it verbatim to respect their confidentiality request but, in a nutshell, if any club tries to submit a contract for more than 3 years for a 17 year old then it will be rejected by the SFL and the club asked to submit a new contract that complies with their rules.
So good luck TRFC getting that 5 year extension approved. This should have no bearing on his eligibility to play as he is currently under contract.
Nice to know the SFL do reply, unlike the aptly monikered SFA
John Anthony says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:50
I received the same email about the delay with the book. I was annoyed as I intended reading it on a holiday flight next week. With a lot of references to ‘masonic innuendo’ can I just add that I don’t think there is anything sinister with the delay, I understand that there is merely supply problems owing to the publications popularity.
Off topic – very concerning but highly interesting…
ony Evans @TonyEvansTimes
First news trickling out and it’s ugly. Blood taken from bodies to test for alcohol. If none, they checked for criminal records.
Retweeted by jake the snake
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
19m Jim Boardman @JimBoardman
If a survivor’s blood alcohol level was zero then that survivor was checked on police national computer for a criminal record. #HIP
Retweeted by jake the snake
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
23m Jim Boardman @JimBoardman
I understand the panel’s report will say that blood alcohol levels were taken from survivors in hospital without their knowledge. #HIP
Retweeted by jake the snake
Expand
———————————————–
Absolutely disgusting what the families and friends of the victims have had to endure.
Justice for the 96
OT – perhaps – but what happened at Hillsborough happened to many of us in the days gone by – but thankfully without the tragic events.
I remember police horses charging up Janefield Street after a Weds night game for some obscure reason, causing a wall to collapse with the surge of the crowd trying to escape the horses – numerous times at Hampden being “carried” many steps without ever touching the floors – and crushed against crowd barriers.
The public were indeed treated like cattle – it took a great deal of loss of life at Ibrox, Bradford, Heysel and Hillsborough for people to finally be allowed to watch games in dignity.
We owe all these people a great debt – it could have been any one of us who attended games in the 70s and 80s that could have been caught in this.
And the real shame is the way it was covered up and what else was going on as we are seeing above in the tweets coming out
Not completely off topic really though when you think about it – football authorities and clubs along with legal system treating the public with contempt – where did I hear that before?
Some folks never seem to learn.
Re Downfall and Amazon.
Is it not just the case that the publishers only did a limited print run and Amazon have already sent out their quota as provided by their suppliers..
Afterall it is not just fans of non Govan teams that are buying it up.
Circa 32 growling bears have apparently bought and read the book and managed to write a review.
Interesting to note that the reviews to date are polar opposites (5 star -12 or 1 star -32 and nothing in between).
Even the books on the Israel/Palestine conflict have a range of reviews.
Only in Scotland!!!
Gie’s a gonk says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:07
Got a very prompt reply this morning from the SFL to my e-mail from last night.
Won’t repeat it verbatim to respect their confidentiality request but, in a nutshell, if any club tries to submit a contract for more than 3 years for a 17 year old then it will be rejected by the SFL and the club asked to submit a new contract that complies with their rules.
==========================================================
Well done
The MSM have obviously picked this up wrong…….oh wait, its on THE Rangers official site!
I see that the ticket prices for the Motherwell league cup game have now been announced, cheaper than a SPL3 match and a Ramsdens cup gameas well.
Pricing:-
Queen of the South
The first of the three matches sees Rangers face Queen of the South in the Ramsdens Cup Quarter Final on Tuesday 18 September, kick-off 7.45pm.
Tickets are on sale now priced at £15 for adults, £10 for concessions and just £5 for kids.
Montrose
Rangers then return to SFL action when they take on Montrose on Sunday 23 September at 3pm. Tickets for this match are priced from £16 for adults, £12 for concessions and just £5 for kids.
Motherwell
The third and final match is a Scottish Communities League Cup Third Round clash where the Light Blues play Motherwell on Wednesday 26 September, kick-off 7.15pm.
Tickets for this match are on sale now until Thursday for season ticket holders and are priced at £13 for adults, £8 for concessions and £3 for kids. Public sale starts on Friday and tickets are priced at £15 for adults, £10 for concessions and £5 for kids
Does anyone tell the whole truth about anything any more??? Sad day RIP 96 and please give their families the strength to deal with what is being revealed today. Truth and Justice for all.
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:14
Cant believe that was printed in MSM. Just WOW!!
campsiejoe says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:54
I don’t know if there are secret messages hidden within his statement
——–
There are no secret messages in his statement. Just messages which are directed to those who will recognise them and interpret them accordingly. 😉
Nothing wrong with that. As I said before, Brothers are expected to “live honestly, injure nobody, and render to every one his just due.”
If they don’t they can be, in the first instance, “censured”.
Now where have I heard that word recently?
Anyway, AJ’s statement contains pointed masonic language. Of that there is no doubt. Let’s note that, and move on. 🙂
Essex beancounter says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:04
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smallteaser says:
September 11, 2012 at 23:31
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I feel as though I’ve been doing a five year degree course in corporate shenanigans and how the uses media obfuscation to sell newspapers and that I’m about to do a thesis on both 😉
Meanwhile my wife thinks I’ve gone off her and have a burd or three called Katriona Diana Silvestre, Rula Thomasina Capone and Sheila Francis Malone 😉
slimshady61 says: September 11, 2012 at 19:54
The following was edited from my reply to something on The Scottish Law Thoughts blog.
Rangers tried to clear their debt (not Murray’s) by a rights issue, which was underwritten by Murray/MIH . A very poor response from Rangers “fans” left Murray/his company holding the baby, 50m worth of baby (interesting how he could just opffload debt into his own company – treating it like a private piggy-bank – surprised the bank didn’t have soemthing to say about that.).
Note: At the time of the rights issue (2004), after debt had been building massively (even with EBTs) Murray’s “fortune” was estimated at £450m (at the time the Sunday times Rich List in 2004 & 2005) – that’s everything he owns (identifiable wealth, land, property, other assets such as art and racehorses, or significant shares in publicly quoted companies – such as Rangers (haha), excl. cash), so the £50m underwriting was a very significant portion of Murray’s net worth, much higher than he was probably expecting, hence the use of his company to wear that debt
The suggestion was that to clear any debt in the future Murray would “simply have embarked on another round of building debt then absorb it into the Murray group?” – Aha, I think we just answered my previous question – THE BANK! The bank would have stopped that – what business rationale would involve a commercial company taking on £50m of debt from a failing (financially at least) football club? No way that’s going to happend twice.
The bank will have wanted the club’s debt paid down (after all it was owed to them) – but they were OK with Murray simply moving it from club to company. I assume they were happier with the risk profile of a company with £100m’s of assets than that of a football club with realisable assets of only £5m (well we realise now…). I remember Alisdair “Surrender, No” Johnstone saying in Daly’s BBC investigation that the Rangers board assumed debt wasn’t a problem because Murray would pay it off – they were the board of a plc – I was aghast at that attitude.
So it seems that the bank probably wouldn’t let Murray ramp up any more debt a) against the team, b) against his company. Murray’s own wealth would have been under even more pressure had he taken on debt personally (his wealth was fairly constant at £450-500m weath until 2010 when it fell 78% to “just” £110m net worth – the £24m tax bill would have been 21% of Murray’s total wealth).
This explains the continued use of EBTs – they were on a runaway train and had no other option than to hold on and hope for a couple of (Champs League) windfalls. It is clear that Murray was desperately taking money from herever he could get it – ENIC, King, etc – and just throwing it into the furnace to keep the engines turning (too many engine metaphors?) in the hope that he could sell the club – even for a pound – just to get distance from this voracious money eating monster he created… It also explains why Murray didn’t just pay thetax bill and be done with it. He couldn’t afford to. He was waiting for some patsy to come in, buy the company and he could ride off into the sunset.
I am sure they only planned to use EBTs in some special cases initially, but faced with the scenario I have outlined, it seems to me over time, EBTs became the standard not the exception – Rangers were desperate to make any saving and wages is the biggest outgoing at a football club.
Adminstrative cock-up? Nah. Panicked desperation and willing to do anything to stay afloat, even if it takes them outside the rules? Yup.
Angus says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:44
Thanks Angus, that puts Surrender-No’s comments into perspective. Worryingly so.
He sounds like a desperate man.
Essex beancounter says:
September 12, 2012 at 09:51
3 0 Rate This
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 12, 2012 at 00:02
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I’m the last one to defend an accountant EB particularly one who worked for Murray/rangers however I’ve read on more than one occasion from the accountants on KDS that those who worked for MIH’s in house finance dept were some of the best accountants in the country who could have worked anywhere. The implication being that these people were above reproach but that they were having to work with their hands tied behind their backs.
Can’t recall though if some of them walked due to professional integrity or simply logged the ‘interference’ to cover their backs.
jockybhoy says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:44
Maybe when the extent of the EBT payments made to Murray or Murrays are made known then a lot of people will realise that Murray was self funding ….. Murray.
smallteaser says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:59
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jockybhoy says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:44
Maybe when the extent of the EBT payments made to Murray or Murrays are made known then a lot of people will realise that Murray was self funding ….. Murray.
============================
to be honest, the bears wont care – they are already angry with murray for the whole EBT mess, selling to Whyte etc.
but at the same time, they know he brought the trophies – they’ll find it hard to be angry to the point where he gets bullets in the post but they’ll certainly make lots of noise about him being a bassa
and, while we are at it, they might be rallying behind green now – fighting out at the “injustices” being visited upon them….but when the time comes to actually buy those shares, most folk will take a calm, rational view of it all,wives and families will be consulted, bank balances checked, mortgage/rent payments, loan payments, car payments, season ticket payments, holidays and christmas will all win out over the desire to own a part of sevco……sure, on FF and RM or on the supporters bus, they’ll all kid on they are remortgaging the house to buy their share, but they won’t
Funny how the truth can be distorted
The official SFA Judicial Panel report into Craig Whyte`s behaviour at RFC concluded that the withholding of tax from HMRC was a very serious offence
“The panel’s report, written by Gary Allan QC, stated: “Only match fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach. They brought the game into serious disrepute.
“In the case of the non payment of tax, which was possibly by the smallest margin the most serious breach, the massive extent of the failure and the intentional and calculated manner in which it was carried out aggravated the breach even further.”
The panel considered ending or suspending the club’s SFA membership but judged that sanction too severe.”
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/rangers-takeover-only-match-fixing-a-more-serious-breach-1-2290541
Some people may recall MSM phone in Presenters at the time discussing the issue as if the “close to march fixing” comment was somehow the Panels verdict on EBTs not on RFC defrauding HMRC They compounded this ( deliberate?) error by going on to claim the Panel had no right to judge EBTs because the FTT had not reported.
i.e. The fact that the Judicial Panel did not examine EBTs at all was ignored
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It now appears that this “EBT” interpretation has found its way into the folklore of the Rangers Supporters Trust where they quote Alistair Johnston as saying
“First, when the previous football commission reported on EBT’s in a very high profile statement, they took the view that if Rangers was indeed guilty of structuring EBT schemes that transgressed the law or the rules of the relevant federations, then this was “close to match fixing.”
http://www.dothebouncy.com/home/showthread.php?48902-Alistair-Johnston-speaks-on-the-SPL-charges&p=538385#post538385
A cynic might conclude that this myth was guidance to the MSM by Jack Irvine
My granny used to stay opposite the ludge, I used to ask her why all these well known business types with big motors and the same briefcase, parked outside her hoose. She would make up a different story everytime to avoid the grilling of an inquisitive young mind.
Many years on, I know many of the members in the same ludge, of those, few of them would have escaped the black ball on night one had they applied back in the day.
I realise that there are still cratfy people in positions of authority, but the days of them being, above, or an influencial part of, the law, are all but gone. I hope.
We have had pleas to HMRC, the state, the law, the football world, the latest seems to be to the craft. Desperate pleas of help to those silly enough to ruin a career by making decisions based on creed, are exactly that, desperate. Shelter from highway robbers n all that, irony indeed.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:13
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smallteaser says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:59
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I bought 500 shares at Fergus McCann’s divestment, cost me £1500 and is the single worst investment/purchase I have ever made.
I could have paid £50 for a framed (1) share cert but it was an emotional investment and I thought I was helping the club, I wasn’t.
There have been two or three share issues since which have totally diluted my original investment and I wasn’t prepared to buy more shares to try to maintain the value.
They are now practically worthless, the only reason I’ve not sold them is because they are voting shares (ords) and might actually be worth something if someone ever buys the club in the future.
Angus says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:41
8 0 Rate This
Angus,
Dare I say we’re on the ‘same level’ of thought regarding this :-))
The above link is from The Rangers Standard, it’s by Chris Graham. The innacuracies and downright falsehoods are staggering. I have noticed one or two posters from here have registered for the site, maybe others should so we can pvt them right.
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:14
5 0 Rate This
The Herald article is available online now:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look-does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look.18857922
————–
Quite amazing stuff from the MSM. Reads like something that could have been posted here.
It certainly does DP. I wonder what RM’s login is?
Danish Pastry says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:26
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 10:14
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look-does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look.18857922
————–
Quite amazing stuff from the MSM. Reads like something that could have been posted here.
————————————————————————–
Maybe he could, an unpaid gig shall we say, a sort of busmans holiday. Roger you fancy it??
Any on topic you like, even the blog itself.
AJ wouldnt need to be so oblique if he wanted to make a masonic appeal to the panel .
Seamus says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:25
This site is overrun with masons!
It’s a trap!
Danish Pastry says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:26
3 0 i Rate This
Night Terror says:
=======================
Would it be possible for someone to copy and paste the text here, I can’t read it from this PC and it sounds interesting.
Thank you.
another wee observation in the propaganda war
the SPL investigation is being referred to as an investigation into EBTs and their use. One line of “defence” is that the tribunal hasn’t returned a verdict yet, how can the SPL judge
this stance will be maintained in the hope that the FTT lets RFC off the hook
however, that won’t impact the SPL investigation, as this is into non disclosed payments
at that point (should it happen) they will claim the SPL have moved the goalposts are are simply being vindictive, RFC “won” the FTT but the SPL – driven on by Celtic – still want those titles
of course, the FTT is going to crucify them, but get ready for the switcheroo if it works out well for them
the 2 investigations are NOT related
(Edited from moderation) Cathol1c a banned word!!!
Oh Dear,
http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/189800-ex-referee-jeff-winters-home-raided-by-police-over-anti-cathol1c-blogs/
Night Terror says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:55
Seamus says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:25
Angus says:
September 12, 2012 at 11:41
8 0 Rate This
Angus,
Dare I say we’re on the ‘same level’ of thought regarding this 🙂 )
This site is overrun with masons!
It’s a trap!
————————————————-
I’d like to let everyone know that I won’t be able to post for a while as I’m going to my granny’s 125th birthday party. 😀
@ Alex Cox, it already has been copied here – http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/charkes-green-we-stand-united-in-saying-no-more-what-will-footballs-authorities-do/comment-page-7/#comment-10224
Oh and just to clear a point up, with regard bringing the game into disrepute, and the penalty for it, and whether or not it was close to match fixing.
When people talk about not paying tax that is kind of missing the point. This is not like calculating your net profit at the end of the year, working out the tax on it, and paying it to the Government.
What we are talking about is PAYE, NI and VAT. This is money Rangers collected from people and were supposed to remit to the Government. They didn’t do that, instead they simply spent the money. Money which wan’t theirs and that they knew wasn’t theirs.
To me that is more akin to stealing than to tax evasion.
With regard the fans defence, that it was Craig Whyte and not Rangers. That makes as much sense as a defence against strangling someone being “It wasn’t me it was my brains and hands, why are you blaming the anal sphincter for their actions.”
TheGamesABogey says:
September 12, 2012 at 13:04
==============
Thank you very much
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
September 12, 2012 at 08:01
‘..The Board minutes alone will make for very interesting reading..’
—————–
So they should, indeed, but many an item discussed at Board meetings is not minuted!
Slippery, devious, and powerful Chairmen dealing with compromised, complicit , greedy and gutless board members can make sure of that.
Only D&P at the moment have access to and control of the former club’s paper-work.
Their unwillingness to appear before the SPL Commission raises in my mind a whole lot of questions about the precise nature of the relationship between them and CG.
Why would an independent ‘court appointed’ Administrator, owing no loyalty either to the defunct business or to the business-man who bought the assets of the defunct business, care a tuppenny toss about the alleged shenanigans of the dead business or the rantings of the owner of the asets?
Most unprofessional.
the waiting’s almost over….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19569680#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
if you don’t have access to twitter…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19569680
john clarke says:
September 12, 2012 at 13:07
Only D&P at the moment have access to and control of the former club’s paper-work.
Their unwillingness to appear before the SPL Commission raises in my mind a whole lot of questions about the precise nature of the relationship between them and CG.
===========================================================
JC there is a very good chance that D & D would not have appealled the original punishment nor have went to court to get it overturned.
It was not in the creditors or the business interests.
The actions were however funded by the Rangers Fighting Fund, who I don’t think would be willing to pay now, they are now THE Rangers Fighting Fund.
I take it that attending this commission or any others would add no value to the creditors and indeed would accumulate costs, therefore they cannot attend.
Therefore the comment that should have been made to the SPL was ” Do what you will, there is no value in this for the creditors we cannot attend.”
tomtom
You going too 😉
Rangers tax tribunal verdict to be announced ‘in October’
Rangers applied for insolvency in July
BBC Scotland has learned that a verdict on the First Tier Tax tribunal between Rangers and HM Revenue & Customs is expected in October.
In 2010, the previous owners of Rangers contested an unpaid tax relating to the use of Employee Benefit Trusts, believed to be in the region on £49m.
The club entered administration in February 2012 over a separate tax issue and applied for insolvency in July.
The Scottish Courts Service said an announcement will be made next month.
MDCCCLXXXVIII says:
September 12, 2012 at 13:17
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19569680
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Sorry, an announcement does not equate to a verdict.
Seamus says:
September 12, 2012 at 13:18
tomtom
You going too 😉
——————–
We could meet up before it. I’ll be getting a low LEVEL train to Queen St and then going to George SQUARE and could meet you at the city CHAMBERS. It should be an ALMIGHTY party. Isn’t Google wonderful 😀
smallteaser says:
September 12, 2012 at 13:20
1 0 Rate This
MDCCCLXXXVIII says:
September 12, 2012 at 13:17
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19569680
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Sorry, an announcement does not equate to a verdict.
———————————————————————
Sorry if I’ve misread this wrong…..
“…BBC Scotland has learned that a verdict on the First Tier Tax tribunal between Rangers and HM Revenue & Customs is expected in October.”
Nice to see confirmation that “The Club entered administration in February and applied for insolvency in July”. No mention of an ethereal holding company in that wee report.
Slowly but surely the accuracy is improving