It gets dafter and dafter. It is just over a year since the ridiculous and embarrassing – but failed – attempts by those in charge of Scottish Football to blackmail the SFL clubs and force them to parachute the shiny new Rangers into the SFL First Division.
A year where the new era of “transparency” heralded by a huge drum roll, gave way to secret agreements (which were never adhered to); panic-stricken measures to rush through change in the structure of the game without ANY delay or meaningful consultation – despite a hitherto intransigent approach to any kind of change; non-denial denials of the charge that Rangers were given a football licence without due process.
By the way, the SFA sent an official to an SPL Tribunal with a new convoluted interpretation of a rule which had been used to penalise clubs in the past, and ignored compelling evidence that one club had been economical with the truth on matters regarding banned directors when submitting their application for membership.
I could go on of course, but the incredulity bar is lowered with each ridiculous, contorted and corrupt episode, so that by the time we get to the claims made by several sources that Charles Green was in league with Craig Whyte when he bought some of the old club’s assets, we hardly blink an eye that the SFA appear content to accept the outcome of an internal inquiry ordered by the organisation most likely to be disadvantaged if the claims were true.
Whatever RTC was about, and it was about avarice, corporate malfeasance, theft of public money and the destruction of the integrity of competition in the game, we have moved on from there.
Even if the powers in charge of our game are forced to dispense proper justice in the case of both old Rangers and the new club, there appears to be little prospect that they will have done so because of a Damascene conversion in the ways of sporting integrity, fairness and Corinthianism. They will still be corrupt – just corrupt and bad at it. I am convinced that people have left the game in some numbers this season because of their disgust at the handling of the Rangers fiasco. I see no evidence at all that those people who voted with their feet last year will see a reason to change their tune this time around.
Whatever Rangers were guilty of, there is a general understanding of why they did what they did. They wanted to win – to be the best, and they pushed the envelope as far as they could before tearing the thing up altogether. What they did was 100% in their own self interest. It stinks, but at least it is logical.
What the authorities have done on the other hand is far more gobsmackingly illogical and unintuitive. They have acted in the interest of one club to the continued disadvantage of eleven others (in the case of the SPL, UEFA licences and player registration). They acted against the interests of new aspirants to senior football, and in concert with the interest of just one when they shoehorned Sevco (that’s what they were called then) into the SFL Third Division. I am sure they did that in the belief that a full season of no football at Ibrox would probably kill forever the cash cow that Green and his cohorts were fattening up for slaughter.
Despite the punishment that was accepted by Sevco (the transfer embargo), the SFA have stood by whilst the spirit of that sanction (although admittedly not the letter) was ripped up in their (still silent and impassive) faces as the MSM spun a market day frenzy of transfer activity by a club who were ostensibly proscribed from participating in that market.
Of course there are those who do not want to believe that their club, one of the forty-one good guys, is complicit in this nonsense – and yet ALL of our clubs ARE the SFA or the SPFL. Despite this catalogue of shameful inaction, sabotage and double-dealing, not one voice of dissent emanating from any of our clubs has been heard in print or broadcast media. Instead, huge pay increases and votes of thanks to the bureaucrats who acted out the farce authored by their masters, the clubs.
Is this because they (the clubs) are in agreement with what has transpired? I find it impossible to come to any other conclusion.
There are those who argue compellingly that if clubs, especially those who have a history of rivalry with Rangers tinged with some rancour, were to speak out, the press would have a field day; that allegations of bigotry and Rangers-hating would ensue from the MSM which would wind up the otherwise reasonable chaps who support Rangers.
In my view, if the situation is thus, then we are saying that we all have to keep our thoughts to ourselves, know our place and just take what scraps we get. If fear of violent retribution is the trump card here, then the trick for success in Scottish Football is not to have the most feared football team, but the group of fans which fills others with most dread. That is the death of the game – period.
What crystallises itself for me here is this fear factor. Anonymity has been carefully protected by most of us on this blog for exactly the reasons outlined above. Our desire to remain anonymous has been strengthened by the failure of authority, jointly AND severally, to itself stand up for the sport. The key from day one has been fear. Fear and corruption, which is merely a microcosm of the life in our country.
Whether it’s the media ignoring the wrongdoings of a football club, or a corrupt political system where for £40m donation you can get yourself £400m in tax breaks, we see those with resources pissing all over us from a very prodigious height. And when we do find out about it, we are cautioned to be very afraid of taking any action. Afraid of terrorism, afraid of unemployment, afraid of the mob.
I find myself resigned to the realisation that no matter WHAT evidence is uncovered, it will make absolutely no difference to anyone unless Joe Public keeps his hands in his pockets. People in boardrooms all over the country are betting that football fans are too emotionally invested in their clubs to do so.
The cheats, the spivs and the blazers will in the short and medium term get their own way, many of them aware of the fact that they are not quite as equal as others – and yet happy to go along with that.
We all have to decide whether or not we are as content as they are.
Suspecting as I do that most of us will find that unacceptable, I think there is still a war to be won, even if the battles seem to be going against us time and again. As long as we continue to feel that sense of outrage, that sense of betrayal by the custodians of our sport, we will still be shouting from these pages.
Thanks to the generosity and commitment of our readers, the shouting is about to get louder. We have reached our funding target and we hope to start organising our Podcasts within the next few weeks. The fight goes on, but hopefully it will also have greater reach.
TSFM
I had to remove the link to get the above past automatic moderation it was on Video Celts 11 March but will be on Celtic web site too.
Danish Pastry says:
July 20, 2013 at 7:48 am
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 12:11 am
I was wondering what the paragraphs after ‘Whoops’ in your original post meant, explained in layman’s terms?
=================================================================
Just being a layman myself I am eminently qualified to answer ❓ Btw I’m not really bothered about copyright but just the fact that without a credit TSFM loses out on traffic and potential new posters/readers.
Basically the deal between SDI and TRFCL means that Rangers Retail can borrow £1.5 million for up to 5 years with interest charges being added to the final payback figure. The loan is secured by a debenture on all RR freehold and leasehold property – I don’t know if the company has any as yet but one worth watching with the proposed new Ibrox store a possibility. Also without seeing the agreement I wonder whether TRFCL freehold/leasehold property might also be covered by the debenture.
The agreement governing the joint venture has a deadlock provision which ultimately means if the issue can’t be resolved then SDI can buy-out the TRFCL shareholding in the joint venture for 50% of the RR profits for the previous 12 months.
If SDI do buy-out TRFCL then they are allowed certain intellectual property rights and grant of an exclusive worldwide licence as long as royalties are paid to TRFCL and kit and branded products supplied to TRFCL at cost + 10%.
PS Did anyone actually see what was in those latest CF docs that were removed from scribd?
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:04 pm
PS Did anyone actually see what was in those latest CF docs that were removed from scribd?
++++++++++++++++++++
I didn’t (nurse tucks me in well before midnight), but judging by his/her post at 1.58am, Sunincapricorn got a glimpse, and it seems to have been significant. I would be grateful for some indication of the contents- or better still, if someone grabbed a screenshot and can repost somewhere?
Thanks for a very clear summary of the Sports Direct deal, by the way. Much appreciated.
Auldheid says:
July 20, 2013 at 1:57 pm
Ecobhoy
It looks like Celtic have the same questions as you re impact on rules. The problem is it has been left to the SFA to wriggle out of but I cannot see the SPL voting to accept LNS without having the same reservatiosn as Celtic stated unless Celtic were outvoted at an SPL Board meeting. That is the evidence I would like to see for that is the one that matters.
=========================================================================
I’ve also been reading the link on KDS you posted earlier and that is quite fascinating. I sometimes wonder whether clubs, in a sense. took their eye off the governance of Scottish Football in terms of the League bodies and the SFA and left things more and more to the highly paid full-time officials and secretariat.
I can see how clubs and their chairmen could slip into that mind-set for an easy life and enough pressure running their individual clubs. But having seen the recent CF material and the KDS stuff earlier it seems as though a parallel universe was in operation where the servants had taken control of the Big Hoose behind a raddled facade of the supposed ‘great and good’ of Scottish Football.
I would like to think there has been a wake-up call but I remain to be convinced and our footballing ‘civil servants’ are probably still totally in charge. The problem with the Bryson interpretation is that it’s a load of tosh and everyone knows that but it’s been allowed to go unchallenged. It was unchallenged at the time and it remains unchallenged.
What a grotesque state of affairs.
There is a thread on Rangers shares here- http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?page=1&ShareTicker=RFC
Those on there seem convinced that Charles Green has used the recent change of Nomad to unlock and sell a significant volume of shares. According to AIM, about £1.5m in value traded in the last 3 days trading of this week, at around 42p per share..
This post in particular by Keeneye caught my attention-
“Just noticed that it is indeed Charlie’s shares that are trading he’s listed as having 1.5million shares less than yesterday….
Shame on you Strand Hanson! No wonder Charlie got shot of Cenkos… These monkeys are doing the organ grinder’s bidding!”
This begs a question for me. How can anyone access a running total of CG’s shareholding on a daily basis? Nothing on AIM that I can find. Certainly sales of shares don’t register at Companies House for months. Can anyone help? Because if CG really has dumped so many shares, that really is big news.
neepheid says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:18 pm
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:04 pm
PS Did anyone actually see what was in those latest CF docs that were removed from scribd?
++++++++++++++++++++
I was on the piss last night and didn’t copy them I’m afraid. But I’m sure other will have 😈
But I did a couple of posts on the ones that interested me at:
http://www.sfmonitor.org/2013/07/daft-and-dafter/comment-page-7/#comment-56450
http://www.sfmonitor.org/2013/07/daft-and-dafter/comment-page-8/#comment-56455
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 1:13 pm
That’s probably where I got the SPL/UTTT thing from. Had read it somewhere and thought it a bizarre statement at the time so the words if not the source stayed with me.
I think the convenience of LNS decision for the governing bodies is destroyed by any UTTT victory for HMRC.
It would mean that Rangers defied the law of the land for a decade but only broke administration rules at SFA. That’s an untenable position.
Even for CO and co.
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:04 pm
PS Did anyone actually see what was in those latest CF docs that were removed from scribd?
___________________________________________________________________________________
I grabbed the last one as this was something I had not seen before and struck me as particularly VERY interesting.
Download it while you can…..
http://www.scribd.com/doc/154936360/154806644-Draft-Restructuring-Workstreams-Matrix
neepheid says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:44 pm
This post in particular by Keeneye caught my attention-
“Just noticed that it is indeed Charlie’s shares that are trading he’s listed as having 1.5million shares less than yesterday….
This begs a question for me. How can anyone access a running total of CG’s shareholding on a daily basis? Nothing on AIM that I can find. Certainly sales of shares don’t register at Companies House for months. Can anyone help? Because if CG really has dumped so many shares, that really is big news.
======================================================================
That post caught my eye as well but no source given to show where the supposed drop in CG’s shareholding was disclosed. I have also noted that some posters are aggregating ‘buys’ and ‘sells’ to arrive at their figures proving Rangers meltdown. I will wait and see what happens next week as I think the picture could become clearer by then although I think RFC is getting closer to its actual market value
There are lots of reasons why shares could be getting bought and sold at the moment and I did a poast the other pointing out there were 65.1 million shares issued and afaik only 9.25 million locked-in although the fan shareholding of approx 7-8 million won’t trade much.
What must be remembered that for the savvy investor plenty of money can be made off the back of falling share prices – normal people don’t understand that concept and that’s why the spivs love them because they are stripped of their dosh in the shark-infested whirlpool of the AIM market.
Currently the Market Cap at 42p is £27.34 million as opposed to £61 million when shares were 94p in January this year. I would say that if prices don’t stabilise next week above say 35p which would provide a Market Cap of £22.75 million then there could be real fear of meltdown.
But then who knows who might emerge from the shadows to buy control of the club and for the large bunch of original investors who only paid 1p a share even if they drop to 2p they’ve still doubled their money. Seriously they’ll make more than that but just what price is starting to become a burning issue for some I have no doubt with the biggest loser being Green.
His 5 million shares (approx) were worth £4.7 million in January and currently worth £2.1 million – how low can they go and has the French Villa been paid for yet for that retirement in the sun he dreamt of?
Ok, those docs that CF mentions as having been removed appear to be the ones about the deal to place negative stories in the media by this McKerron Hay character. Some bright spark retweeted a screenshot of this one:
https://mobile.twitter.com/eamonolenin/status/358361059427487745/photo/1
Peter D says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:57 pm
Thanks for that, PD.
Not all that knowledgeable about this, but it does seem to me that this confirms MCR (D&P) were very deeply involved with RFC/CW at least 4 months before the insolvency event and their subsequent appointment as administrators. Does that not seem 4 months too early? I know many on here have said they were much more involved than they admitted/should have been, but here (if genuine) is concrete proof of that involvement. They must also have been fully aware that RFC had no money in October (more likely before) and that the Income Tax and NIC contributions were being used to fund the club. What sort of insolvency practitioners would get involved like this then accept the role of administrators (rhetorical question 🙂 ), and more to the point, how could BDO possibly ignore this (if they do)?
Peter D says: July 20, 2013 at 2:57 pm
===============
Good job Peter D for saving that document.
Couple of headings jumped out; ‘Financial Assistance’ and ‘Ransom Creditors’.
Jack Irvine is becoming the story… great stuff CF! 😉
Ecobhoy
You know LNS findings very well. Was the following SFA article covered in the commissioning?
Article 5.1 Obligations and Duties of Members which, under Article 4.3 applies to the SPL as well as its member clubs, states that
“5.1 All members shall observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play”
How did Rangers do on that score eh? Were they ever charged by SFA for failing to meet Article 5.1 as part of LNS or anywhere?
Sugar Daddy says:
July 20, 2013 at 11:15 am
19 0 Rate This
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 11:00 am
In looking to gain a wider audience may I suggest to TSFM that sending regular press releases, to the MSM, other blogs as well as journo twitter accounts in Scotland and the rest of the UK, that actually asks the questions they wont should be considered. This would further the stated aim of TSFM.
Surely we could get advice,on gaining a wider audience, from a friendly journalist, such as Phil Macgiollabhain!
Sugar Daddy says:
July 20, 2013 at 2:48 pm
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 1:13 pm
I think the convenience of LNS decision for the governing bodies is destroyed by any UTTT victory for HMRC. It would mean that Rangers defied the law of the land for a decade but only broke administration rules at SFA. That’s an untenable position.
=================================================================
I’m afraid I don’t agree with you on that one as LNS makes it clear in its Decision that the payments in question should have been declared and that’s why Rangers were found guilty and fined by LNS for not declaring the payments and therefore breaching the rules.
What destroyed the SPL case was the subsequent Bryson interpretation which quite simply meant there were – according to his interpretation of the SFA rule book – no incorrectly registered players and therefore no sporting advantage. This was accepted by the SPL lawyer without challenge or argument. A stitch-up was organised but what we don’t know is who all were involved and whether it involved more than officials and spread to other SPL clubs and, if so, which ones.
At the end of the day LNS was mainly dealing with SFA and SPL rules not the law of the land as pertaining to specialised to tax matters. That is what the UTT will deal with when it hears the appeal by HMRC against the majority decision of the FTTT. And it’s quite likely that no matter the decision of the UTT there will be at least another 1/2 appeals and it could be years before a final conclusion is reached.
ps…something strange going on with the login process….also known on here as peterjung…my preferred non-de-plume
Well, I’m still able to see CF docs on scribd, so I’m not sure what’s going on.
This one is still online:
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/154806644
PS Thanks for the explanation ecobhoy. Regarding copyright I was thinking more about posting entire articles from the DR, Herald, and so on 😉
Will TRFC be charging its loyal fans 99p for viewing images of the torched sooper-dooper bus?
Do you think tenders will go out for its replacement -or is this a matter for, say, one one the newer Ibrox directors?
Auldheid says:
July 20, 2013 at 3:41 pm
Ecobhoy
You know LNS findings very well. Was the following SFA article covered in the commissioning?
Article 5.1 Obligations and Duties of Members which, under Article 4.3 applies to the SPL as well as its member clubs, states that
“5.1 All members shall observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play”
How did Rangers do on that score eh? Were they ever charged by SFA for failing to meet Article 5.1 as part of LNS or anywhere?
=====================================================================
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t. There is the fig-leaf of an excuse that – and this is without checking the documents – that because the SFA were always going to form an appellate function that the charges would be based on SPL Rules.
But again we have the problem that there is no public transcript of the proceedings so it could have been dealt with although perhaps not.
Considering how the SPL utterly failed to provide a single scrap of evidence that the EBTs provided Rangers with even a smidgeon of a sporting advantage then I will allow myself a smile at the thought they could have proven that anyone at Rangers didn’t at all times display the required: ‘Loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play.’
Btw where are these ‘Rules of Fair Play’ kept? 🙄
castofthousands
PM 💡
She’s back,
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 53s
Are we getting to the real reason for Hateley being on the payroll?
http://i.imgur.com/ZmH8uG7.jpg
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Btw where are these ‘Rules of Fair Play’ kept? 🙄
++++++++++
Inside Lord Nimmo Smith’s head, to be produced and interpreted as circumstances require. He keeps them in the same repository as “sporting integrity” and “sporting sanctions”, undefined concepts which he also finds extremely useful in times of need.
paulsatim at 4:18pm:
December 2010, and Jack Irvine (whose MediaHouse were at that stage still in charge of PR for RFC PLC) is arranging to meet Whyte in Edinburgh.
He then complains that Alistair Johnson is still “chuntering on” and says Hateley is used by Walter Smith as a “mouthpiece”.
“Machiavelli has nothing on these guys,” says Jack “Pot calling kettle black” Irvine.
Looks like Charlotte is in full #Revenge mode.
paulsatim says:
July 20, 2013 at 4:18 pm
5 0 Rate This
She’s back
___________________________________________________________________–
Mark is Walter’s mouthpiece just as Walter is CG mouthpiece same as CG is CW mouthpiece. is CW the mouthpiece of DM?.
Can nobody speak for themselves in this corrupt club?
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 3:46 pm
Echo, I defer to your greater knowledge of the LNS decision. However, there is a world of difference between not declaring legal payments and not declaring illegal payments.
The SFA/SPL would be condoning illegal activity.
As for any appeal, I understand it has to be on a point of law. The lawyers for MIH will need to convince the bank of the merits of their case first to further defend a company hundreds of millions in debt.
Sugar Daddy says:
July 20, 2013 at 5:22 pm
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 3:46 pm
There is a world of difference between not declaring legal payments and not declaring illegal payments. The SFA/SPL would be condoning illegal activity.
As for any appeal, I understand it has to be on a point of law. The lawyers for MIH will need to convince the bank of the merits of their case first to further defend a company hundreds of millions in debt.
====================================================================
HMRC believes that tax & NI should be paid on EBT payments that were made and MIH believes that the payments are not liable for tax & NI.
You have to remember that tax lawyers and accountants are continually looking for loopholes in tax legislation to sell schemes to rich clients anxious to minimise their tax bill. Whatever the morality of the issue that doesn’t necessarily make the actions of those involved illegal or even the schemes.
EBT schemes are further complicated because some of them which were previously allowable and legal as regards tax legislation ceased to be so as HMRC plugged the tax loopholes. For this reason they fell out of use and MIH and others stopped using them because they ceased to provide any tax advantages and it would also have been illegal to continue using them.
As far as LNS was concerned whether tax was due on the money or not the payments should have been declared under football rules and because Rangers didn’t declare it they were found guilty of failure to do so and fined for the breach. As we know the SPL accepted the decision of the FTT that the payments weren’t illegal for the purposes of LNS.
If Rangers had acted illegally and this had been proven then I have no doubt that LNS would have found that the players involved had not been correctly registered and therefore an unfair advantage had been gained because they had played.
I am fairly confident that Bryson’s interpretation would have been swept aside and sporting sanctions would also have been imposed as well as a monetary one. But none of that happened because not a shred of illegal activity by Rangers was put before LNS so I’m afraid that there is no proof that the SFA/SPL was condoning illegal activity. If you have any I would love to hear it.
We are now at the stage where HMRC have been granted an appeal to the UTT against the decision of the FTTT that MIH didn’t illegally breach tax legislation. If the HMRC appeal is upheld then there will need to be a decision by MIH as to whether they will appeal that decision to the Supreme Court which will take years and be very expensive.
However in view of the amount of tax & NI involved it may well be a case that MIH has to go all the way on this because if it loses the game could be a bogey for the company.
neepheid says:
July 20, 2013 at 4:44 pm
ecobhoy says:
July 20, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Btw where are these ‘Rules of Fair Play’ kept? 🙄
++++++++++
Inside Lord Nimmo Smith’s head, to be produced and interpreted as circumstances require. He keeps them in the same repository as “sporting integrity” and “sporting sanctions”, undefined concepts which he also finds extremely useful in times of need.
===========================================
One thing I am fairly sure of is that top of the list of any ‘Rules of Fair Play’ you’ll find the concepts of sporting integrity and the provision of sanctions against those who try to breach it. However you have your view on this and I have mine and we just don’t agree.
Been reading a few of the posts regarding LNS and the effect of a possible reversal of the result at the UTTT. I’m sure that amongst the small amount of details that emerged from LNS there was something to the effect that the FTTT decision softened things in RFC’s favour. This might, in fact, have been something quoted before the enquiry itself, but after the surprise FTTT result.
I’m really not sure and perhaps talking a lot of Whyte. I also have the feeling that the LNS enquiry limited itself to adjudicating on the registration scenario, leaving the legal/moral aspect of tax evasion/avoidance outwith their remit. Waffling a bit but just trying to get it clear and hope someone can confirm/correct my recollections.
If, indeed, the enquiry did not burden itself with the lawfulness and morals of tax evasion/avoidance and purely came to it’s decision based on the effect of the wrongful registration, would it be open, indeed, would it be unavoidable, for the SPL (SPFL) and/or SFA to open a fresh enquiry on the separate issue that a member club deliberately set out to defraud the Treasury, regardless of the LNS enquiry issues or even whether ‘a sporting advantage’ was gained. Clearly there could be no sanctions for the current club, but the fact they would have won titles while financing themselves through tax evasion, a criminal offence, I believe, would surely lead to refreshed calls for those titles to be removed. It would be pretty difficult to find another Brysonism as, oh damn, there’s probably no rule that covers illegal activity by clubs in the SPL, well not if they are an establishment club, and so, if the SPL/SFA didn’t know at the time… Then, of course, the SPL no longer exists, and the SFA would be the appellate body. Just as well then that the league reconstruction went ahead, well worth all that unseemly haste, as leaving it for another season…
Ref Auldheid/Ecobhoy earlier and a discussion on setting up a billboard outside Hampden. Would this not be more than suitable text? :
“We note yesterday´s decision that Rangers FC has been found guilty of contravening the SPL rules on disclosure of payments over 11 years between 2000-2011.
“The scale of this amounts to a deliberate non-disclosure of £47 million in payments to players and staff. We also note the penalty of £250,000 which has been imposed.
“Like many within Scottish football, including supporters and other observers, we are surprised by the parallel conclusion that no competitive advantage was gained from these arrangements.
“However, the implications of this verdict are for the Scottish football authorities to address since the rules breached were specifically intended to defend “sporting integrity”. Celtic FC March 2013.
Maybe we could all pitch in and have a monthly billboard addressing different issues the MSM appear unwilling to address.
Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.
test, doesn’t seem to be a comment for ages. 😕
Just want to get something of my chest.
Celtic played a friendly today against Brentford.
It may just be me but letting off smoke bombs,running onto the pitch,etc is not acceptable,
Call it high spirits,whatever and there was no trouble but it shouldn’t have happened.
I’m nearly 55 years old.in all that time I’ve never done anything that would damage the clubs reputation.I love that club.
These morons,a few, I know should think about how their actions today could affect the club.
The club,if they can find out who they were,should ban them indefinitely.
You can’t claim the moral high ground when talking about someone else and then just claim “high spirits” when it’s you who’s misbehaving.
These people claim to be Celtic supporters.No true supporter would deliberately tarnish the club.
Rant over.
Two words.
Game on.
Anyone up for it?
redlichtie says:
=========================
Sometimes sarcasm works.
I’d go with:
An evening with Cambpell Ogilvie
Tickets only £90,000.
😉 😉
How long would a billboard last before it was covered in graffiti or set on fire.
Unrealistic imho
Bill1903 says:
July 20, 2013 at 10:21 pm
How long would a billboard last before it was covered in graffiti or set on fire.
Unrealistic imho
==============================
There’s always a snag!
(you’re probably right though)
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
July 20, 2013 at 10:10 pm
‘ just want to get something off my chest…’
—-
And I’m glad you did!
I was just about to have a Sally Magnusson moment, thinking sites were down and links not being made.
Like you, I deplore smoke-bombs and pitch invasions. But I detest and loathe the beating of one single drum at a game.
If I hear that, the sound turns me into a would-be homicidal maniac, insanely impelled to shove a drum-stick where no decent drum-stick deserves to go- and sideways!!
yakutsuki says:
July 20, 2013 at 9:58 pm
I thought the same at 5.22pm. Strange? Maybe everyone is enjoying the Sun!!!!
Test ❓
Also mainly just testing that all is ok on the site, but noticed that OSCR have released information that they have taken action against a charity linked to a previous footballer, Bryan Gunn. Strange is it not that the long term and obviously serious investigation into the Rangers Charity Foundation has not been worthy of any kind of statement, even of the holding variety.
I always look forward to Corsica’s reports on his quest for information and action by the erstwhile authorities!
The Sun excels itself once again.
This is a report on the fire at Bruces bus depot.
Check out the pictures!
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/5026049/m-Rangers-bus-torched-by-yobs.html …
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
July 21, 2013 at 8:36 am
The Sun excels itself once again.
======================
That is just unbelievable. So unbelievable I automatically checked the URL to see if it was a hoax site. It’s real! 😯
Now I’m not a Celtic fan but surely someone at Celtic must make a statement about that, it is disgraceful. (I suspect some new-team supporters on the paper have shoved these pics in but that doesn’t absolve the paper of responsibility). Someone should be getting fired for that – seriously – it could provoke attacks on innocent football fans.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
July 21, 2013 at 8:36 am
1
0
Rate This
The Sun excels itself once again.
This is a report on the fire at Bruces bus depot.
Check out the pictures!
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/5026049/m-Rangers-bus-torched-by-yobs.html …
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Was about to post that myself there. A couple of weeks ago there was an argument on here about the bias that is shown in the MSM in Scotland. The crux of the argument seemed to be whether the bias was purely for commercial reasons or whether it was just anti-celtic sentiment from the media. To me that article sums it up to a tee. Personally I think the answer to that argument is that there is a lot of both. Over the years it could even have just evolved into “just the way you do things”.
That article is beyond a disgrace, and Celtic should go ballistic with them , as they have the Sun bang to rights.
By the way agree with your thoughts on the fans as well. When all is said and done, it was over zealous behaviour from our support. Harmless ? maybe, but definitely not called for
I just noticed the online Sunday Sun report on the Rangers bus getting torched is carrying pictures of Celtic fans at yesterdays game. Please forgive me for being paranoid, but the inference appears clear to me. A standard of reporting not even from the gutter, but from the drains in the gutter.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/5026049/m-Rangers-bus-torched-by-yobs.html
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
July 21, 2013 at 8:36 am
2 0 Rate This
The Sun excels itself once again.
Checked it out … I also thought it must be a wind up. Celtic ‘s lawyers need to respond to that article.
REthe Sun this morning….wow, just wow….Celtic/Celtic fans groups should take this all the way and demand an apology. When we consider the care taken to ensure the threats to journalists, directors and charimen of clubs, or members of the judiciary , threats that were worthy of special branch anti terrorist consultants, such threats are never placed at the door of Sevconians (only a bogit could think such a thing!)…or the earnest looking dog whistler featured as a centre piece this story. What a grubby nation we inhabit.
I thought about reporting the article, or rather the inclusion of pictures unrelated to the article, to the Press Complaints Commission, or whatever has replaced it, but what’s the point? I look to the Celtic Board to take this up with News International at the highest possible level. No dignified silence this time, I sincerely hope. From the point of view of the humble fan, the only possible course of action is a properly organised, effective and total boycott of News International products. That is the only way that this sort of nonsense will stop. Or if it doesn’t stop, at least they will feel some significant pain in their sales figures.
neepheid says:
July 21, 2013 at 9:11 am
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That should of course,include SKY.
A stream of subscription cancellations,telling them why would soon concentrate their minds.
IF Celtic want to respond it should be with ZERO reporting. This is just a pathetic attempt to kick start a rivalry pre season that should no longer exist, at least of any footballing significance. What’s more it seems to be working.
Doesn’t stop them suing the ass off them behind closed doors.
For a wee while I thought we had the evidence needed to call for united action against the MSM.Having taken a minute or two to think it over I don’t think fans of other clubs would back CFC fans if a boycott or some other action was called for.They’d see it as an anti celtic,not anti scottish football.
There’s the rub.
It’ll be hard to find something that’ll stir interest enough to get fans of all clubs to unite.
Meanwhile,as with the FAC movement,the Celtic fans will fight on,basically alone,on behalf of themselves,and everyone else.
Allyjambo says:
July 20, 2013 at 7:41 pm
==============================================
I think it important to remember the facts of what happened and was decided at LNS and the woeful preparation and presentation of the SPL case against Rangers IMO – initially it could be argued this was just a reflection on the level of professionalism of the SPL legal team but the CF emails have now painted a much darker picture of what might have been afoot.
The main thrust of the LNS proceedings were to decide whether the EBTs and side letters should have been disclosed by Rangers or not. The three members of the LNS Tribunal unanimously decided that Rangers had broken the SPL Disclosure Rules and imposed a fine for what the tribunal regarded as a serious offence.
It’s incorrect however to think that LNS wasn’t interested in whether the money for the EBT payments was obtained illegally or not through breaches of tax legislation and it was a key point that had to be established early doors.
The point’s importance and many posters choose to ignore this simple fact is that it isn’t considered an unfair Sporting Advantage for wealthier clubs to purchase a team consisting of much higher quality players than any other club in its League simply because it can afford to pay more to buy them and also higher wages to attract them.
Therefore LNS asked the SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie what his client’s position was regarding the decision of the FTTT which cleared Rangers of illegally breaching tax legislation.
LNS noted the lawyer’s response as follows: ‘‘The SPL presented no argument to challenge the decision of the majority of the Tax Tribunal and Mr McKenzie stated expressly that for all purposes of this Commission’s Inquiry and Determination the SPL accepted that decision as it stood, without regard to any possible appeal by HMRC. Accordingly we proceed on the basis that the EBT arrangements were lawful’.
And at [53] ‘We wish to emphasise that the issues before this Commission as to alleged contraventions of the SPL Rules are very different from the questions of tax law which the Tax Tribunal was required to decide.’
The Tribunal added: ‘Nor is it a breach of SPL or SFA Rules for a club to arrange its affairs within the law so as to minimise its tax liabilities.’
In crude terms this put Rangers in the position of any ‘wealthy’ club in terms of being able to spend whatever money it chose to pay for players.
LNS stated: ‘The relevant SPL Rules were designed to promote sporting integrity, by mitigating the risk of irregular payments to players’. However the payments weren’t irregular and didn’t break football rules so that didn’t breach sporting integrity.
But there was the issue of registration and whether the breach of the Disclosure Rules meant that unregistered players had been playing and that would have provided a sporting advantage for which a sporting sanction would have been appropriate.
We then come to the Bryson ‘interpretation’ which basically meant that once a player was registered they remained registered and that was the case wrt the Rangers players despite the annual disclosure requirements not being met. So no unregistered players equalled no sporting advantage and the SPL didn’t challenge Bryson’s explanation of the SFA position.
It’s also worth remembering that LNS asked Rod McKenzie whether the SPL had any views on the application of sanctions and was told it hadn’t.
LNS at [25] states: ‘There was discussion during the hearing as to whether there is a burden of proof in relation to sanction, in the event that any breach of the Rules is established, and if so on which party it rests. In our view the burden lay on the SPL to prove (on the balance of probabilities).’
Your mention of a possible further inquiry has made me think of something and I want to check the LNS decision as Auldheid raised a similar point earlier. So I will post on that shortly. I have no wish to reignite any debate on LNS and am merely replying to Allyjambo here.
I will, as usual, be happy to respond to any points raised by other posters which show that they have a knowledge and understanding of the LNS Decision although I have no need for them to agree with it 😉
WRT the Sun article and their deliberate attempt to lay the blame for the fire on Celtic fans,
Is there any proof that this is the case?.
Whoever committed this crime,Celtic fan or not,should have the whole power of the law thrown at them.I’ve no problem with that.
If the Sun had carried out some research,though,they’d maybe have found that Bruce Coaches had only £24.5k in the bank at the end of June but current liabilities due within a year,of just over £814k..
May be perfectly OK but no one should rule out other possibilities,ie,insurance,etc.
Even for the Sun that bus fire report is disgraceful, not daring to accuse Celtic fans of torching the bus (as there’s not the slightest evidence to support the idea) they instead show a number of pictures of Celtic fans from something totally unconnected. Even the dimmest of people could see the intended connection. Not only bad churnalism, but cowardly too. Unless it was some drunk beyond reason eejit supporter making a random attack, I cannot see anyone outside of a rival firm, apart from the usual pyromaniacs, having reason to torch something that has given us all hours of fun over the past couple of weeks. Strange goings on in these bus depots these days, £100,000 stolen from one, then a bus torched another a week or so later. I wonder if the custodians of the law might sense some kind of connection there too, or will they just be happy to blame the usual suspects?
On the bus story I find it hard to think of a more irresponsible piece of journalism which could have serious implications for Celtic supporters or even people mistaken as such.
Celtic need to act quickly, vigorously and publicly to demand a front-page apology and damages ( to be given to charity) from News International. The matter should be directed at at Murdoch himself who actually officially opened the Sun plant at Kinning Park.
This is way beyond an issue capable of being dealt dealt with in Scotland and heads have to roll. It is almost impossible for me to get my head round the irresponsibility of what has taken place here.
I have never bought a Sun in my life and all I can say is that if I did buy the rag then I would never buy it again.
This is no time to be silent but for action and obviously the Sun should be permanently banned fro Parkhead and I mean permanently. It’s easy to say that all Murdoch titles and enterprises should get the same treatment but I think it’s better to keep this tightly focussed on the Sun.
Don’t anyone kid themself on that this had anything to do with a handful of bluenoses at the Sun – this was a cold, calculated editorial decision cleared by the Editor or Duty Editor and made on commercial grounds although egged on by sectarian elements on the staff.
And the best way to hit them back is on commercial grounds.
The Sun. Giving yobs a bad name. Another one for Private Eye? No quotes from anyone about who was involved or event suspected but the Sun describe them as yobs and, without any reference to them, include photos of Celtic fans and a smiling Neil Lennon. I have no affinity to Celtic but that is a new low in journalism. Quite an achievement.
I’m reminded of the occasional coincidental adjacent stories in newspapers, where the photo from one was next the headline of the other with a very thin line between them (you might have – and ive completely made this up – “woman accused of brutality” and next to it a picture of Margaret Thatcher on the other story). Perhaps accidental but I sometimes wondered if it was deliberate.
Smugas says:
July 21, 2013 at 9:40 am
IF Celtic want to respond it should be with ZERO reporting. This is just a pathetic attempt to kick start a rivalry pre season that should no longer exist, at least of any footballing significance. What’s more it seems to be working. Doesn’t stop them suing the ass off them behind closed doors.
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You can’t sue them behind closed doors and bodies need to be fired for this to ensure that no other media organisation thinks it can act with impunity. They don’t have the b*lls to use the CF material but they think they can besmirch the reputation of Celtic by associating the club with a serious criminal act. This isn’t the time to be quiet IMO.
I don’t care who carried out the arson attack other than that if they are arrested and convicted they should face a very severe sentence. This wasn’t just about torching industrial premises, for whatever the reason, but it was a dangerous fire and could have resulted in death or injury to firefighters. So no mercy on my part.
And if they happen to be Celtic supporters then it’s a lifetime ban without a doubt.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
A new low in journalism. Quite an achievement.
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Of course they have previous for it with Liverpool fans.
http://i.imgur.com/poDUlA4.jpg
I think it’s well worth looking at the above email by CF to understand the origins of the Rangers Bus story and why Celtic have been dragged in.
Gordon Hay of McKerron Hay is the father of the author of the despicable Sun story who happens to be Cameron Hay.
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 10:00 am
Allyjambo says:
July 20, 2013 at 7:41 pm
Thanks for your response ecobhoy, as usual very thorough and to the point. I have to admit my post wasn’t put together all that well and was more a part of my thought process than any real suggestion that losing the UTTT might cause more bother for RFC (IL). I still have a feeling, though, that despite LNS, there could be trouble ahead, for all involved, with FIFA and/or UEFA getting involved if the offence is cranked up to tax evasion. I do, however, doubt the willingness of any of the footballing bodies making any genuine efforts to seek sporting justice. So much, however, depends on the provenance of Charlotte’s latest tweets and the involvement of the SPL and SFA in the plans to ‘save’ Rangers, both in the run up to the insolvency event and to the LNS enquiry. It would take a giant stretch of the imagination to think that any bodies, so involved in such maneuverings, would then not continue in the same vein with the LNS enquiry. The overturning of the FTTT verdict, together with the latest revelations from Charlotte (if substantiated), would surely lead to some form of questioning at higher levels and to the need for resignations, unless a full, independent enquiry was commissioned. Lord Nimmo Smith and his fellow panel members are beginning to look more and more like some unwitting patsies. Still, I doubt much will come of it.
Seems the pictures have been removed from the report.
Too late.The damage is done.
I’m sure plenty of bampots will have copies,though.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
July 21, 2013 at 10:21 am
‘…. Perhaps accidental but I sometimes wondered if it was deliberate.’
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I would suggest that nothing appears in the press by accident. The equivalents of scumbags like Jill Troon very carefully and deliberately juxtapose unconnected items to mislead and deceive readers into making false connections.
They are,essentially, addicted to the spread of untruth.
Allyjambo says:
July 21, 2013 at 10:56 am
I’ve been slightly diverted by a burning bush 😆
However I want to check something in the LNS Decision which your post and one by Auldheid has sparked in my memory.
I don’t think LNS were ‘unwitting patsies’ – I think they were very wily and highly experienced legal foxes who saw the open door to the hen coop for what it was – a crude and childish SPL set-up.
I totally believe the SPL hoped and prayed that LNS would have stripped titles and for SPL that would have been job done. But Rangers would have appealed the decision and won it hands down and the title would have been restored but no blame on SPL – the blame would be firmly dumped on the Legal establishment.
The more I look at the LNS Decision the clearer it becomes to me that LNS were totally aware of what was underway and had to intention of walking into the trap. The Bryson thing I still don’t fully understand as it has more the feel of something just sprung-on McKenzie.
But he should have asked for an adjournment to take instructions from his clients – why just accept such a departure from what had always previously been understood – on such an important point? Why wasn’t Bryson more closely questioned as to whether there had ever been any discussion at the SFA on the point and whether it had ever been agreed that his interpretation was SFA Policy or purely a personal opinion. Why didn’t Petrie raise the other cases of ‘ineligible’ players or was this interpretation of his still smelling of new paint?
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 10:50 am
http://i.imgur.com/poDUlA4.jpg
I think it’s well worth looking at the above email by CF to understand the origins of the Rangers Bus story and why Celtic have been dragged in.
Gordon Hay of McKerron Hay is the father of the author of the despicable Sun story who happens to be Cameron Hay.
==============================================================
Just to be fair I should have added that I have no knowledge of how the Sun online edition is put together and it may well be that Mr Hay only supplied the words for the Burning Bus article and had no part in the layout or inclusion of the Celtic fan pictures.
However I am sure that News International will conduct a thorough inquiry and explain how this travesty of journalistic integrity was brought about. It may well be that Celtic will request a police investigation in view of the potentially serious consequences which could be sparked by journalism conducted with what IMO is a criminal disregard for public safety and order.
Gutter journalism has always been the stock in trade of the Sun.Why anyone would want to buy this rag is beyond me.Celtic should seize upon the relationship between Hay, Media House International, and the content of the leaked CF e-mail.
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 10:50 am
-“.Gordon Hay of McKerron Hay is the father of the despicable Son ……”
Fixed that for you, ecobhoy.!
With regards to the torched super bus.
Mr McCoist is quoted on the BBC website as saying “It saddens me. It really does. I think it’s pathetic that people would go to these extremes.” He goes on to be quoted as saying “It sounds like a premeditated attack on Rangers’ bus and I’m gutted about it, but thankfully nobody’s been killed.”
So before any investigation has taken place, in Mr McCoist’s slightly bent and twisted mind, it is already done and dusted that this is a direct attack on Sevco.
Just shy of dog whistling, but as he correctly points out, “nobody’s been killed”. Not yet, at least, but if Mr McCoist keeps up his escalation tactics, then who knows!
Sad, very sad.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hugh-keevins-rangers-pre-season-training-2071692
we’re rich, rich ah tell thee
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
July 20, 2013 at 10:27 pm
Bill1903 says:
July 20, 2013 at 10:21 pm
How long would a billboard last before it was covered in graffiti or set on fire.
Unrealistic imho
==============================
There’s always a snag!
(you’re probably right though)
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But of course this would give an opportunity for further press coverage of the subject with probable comment on intolerance, b*gotry, etc.
Maybe we could headline the billboard ; “Are you reading this UEFA?”
Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.
john clarke says:
July 21, 2013 at 11:46 am
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 10:50 am
-”.Gordon Hay of McKerron Hay is the father of the despicable Son ……”
Fixed that for you, ecobhoy.!
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I have learnt in life never to judge a child on the actions of their parents and vice-versa, As I don’t know the journalist in question or his work I will reserve judgement at this time. I’m sure more info will emerge in due course but I certainly will keep an eye-open for future articles by Mr Hay.
andy graham says:
July 21, 2013 at 11:51 am
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hugh-keevins-rangers-pre-season-training-2071692
we’re rich, rich ah tell thee
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Looks as though Keevins was nearly banned from Ibrox as well. What a cringeing apology for his quotes on WS personally admitting he wasn’t fit and proper to be a chairman of a public company and would be chucking it soon anyway.
Either Keevins accurately reported the quotes or he didn’t – I find little room for any error of interpretation in them. So we get this fawning charade to keep his press pass for Ibrox.
Time Hugh called it a day as he is a mere cypher of a jiournalist.
Regan and Doncaster trying to do a runner.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-far-off-league-of-which-they-know-little/#more-3822
This could be the first time a story about a burning bus includes a quote from a fuming coach. Another world record.
Ecobhoy, I take your point about Hillsborough but that, at least, did obviously have Liverpool fans at the scene. The fans in this story probably all have their alibis shown in the article – not the article made any connection other than subliminally.
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 11:56 am
‘..As I don’t know the journalist in question or his work I will reserve judgement at this time”
—
An absolutely proper position to take.
My views are coloured by my belief that any reporter who works for the ‘Sun’ must of necessity be happy to share in its journalistic/editorial ethos, and is on that account alone deserving of scorn.
Re-the Sun today – I see the online report has now been amended, but the damage has been done.
Sent the details of the Sun’s arson article to the Liverpool Echo, just to remind them that The Sun still stinks.
ecobhoy says:
July 21, 2013 at 12:04 pm
I read ‘cypher’ but immediately thought ‘sphincter’, don’t know why! 🙂