Everything Has Changed

ByTrisidium

Everything Has Changed

The recent revelations of a potential winding up order being served on Rangers Newco certainly does have a sense of “deja vu all over again” for the average reader of this blog.

It reminds me of an episode of the excellent Western series Alias Smith & Jones. The episode was called The Posse That Wouldn’t Quit. In the story, the eponymous anti-heroes were being tracked by a particularly dogged group of law-men whom they just couldn’t shake off – and they spent the entire episode trying to do just that. In a famous quote, Thaddeus Jones, worn out from running, says to Joshua Smith, “We’ve got to get out of this business!”

The SFM has been trying since its inception to widen the scope and remit of the discussion and debate on the blog. Unsuccessfully. Like the posse that wouldn’t quit, Rangers are refusing to go away as a story. With the latest revelations, I confided in my fellow mods that perhaps we too should get out of this business. I suspect that, even if we did, this story would doggedly trail our paths until it wears us all down.

The fact that the latest episode of the Rangers saga has sparked off debate on this blog may even confirm the notion subscribed to by Rangers fans that TSFM is obsessed with their club. However even they must agree that the situation with regard to Rangers would be of interest to anyone with a stake in Scottish Football; and that they themselves must be concerned by the pattern of events which started over a decade ago and saw the old club fall into decline on a trajectory which ended in liquidation.

But let me enter into a wee discussion which doesn’t merely trot out the notion of damage done to others or sins against the greater good, but which enters the realm of the damage done to one of the great institutions of world sport, Rangers themselves.

David Murray was regarded by Rangers fans as a hero. His bluster, hubris and (as some see it) arrogant contempt for his competitors afforded him a status as a champion of the cause as long as it was underpinned by on-field success.

The huge pot of goodwill he possessed was filled and topped-up by a dripping tap of GIRUY-ness for many years beyond the loss of total ascendency that his spending (in pursuit of European success) had achieved, and only began to bottom out around the time the club was sold to Craig Whyte.  In retrospect, it can be seen that the damage that was done to the club’s reputation by the Murray ethos (not so much a Rangers ethos as a Thatcherite one) and reckless financial practice is now well known.

Notwithstanding the massive blemish on its character due to its employment policies, the (pre-Murray) Rangers ethos portrayed a particularly Scottish, perhaps even Presbyterian stoicism. It was that of a conservative, establishment orientated, God-fearing and law-abiding institution that played by the rules. It was of a club that would pay its dues, applied thrift and honesty in its business dealings, and was first to congratulate rivals on successes (witness the quiet dignity of John Lawrence at the foot of the aircraft steps with an outstretched hand to Bob Kelly when Celtic returned from Lisbon).

If Murray had dug a hole for that Rangers, Craig Whyte set himself up to fill it in. No neo-bourgeois shirking of responsibilities and duty to the public for him; his signature was more pre-war ghetto, hiding behind the couch until the rent man moved along to the next door. Whyte just didn’t pay any bills and with-held money that was due to be passed along to the treasury to fund the ever more diminished public purse. Where Murray’s Rangers had been regarded by the establishment and others as merely distasteful, Whyte’s was now regarded as a circus act, and almost every day of his tenure brought more bizarre and ridiculous news which had Rangers fans cringing, the rest laughing up their sleeve, and Bill Struth birling in his grave.

The pattern was now developing in plain sight. Murray promised Rangers fans he would only sell to someone who could take the club on, but he sold it – for a pound – to a guy whose reputation did not survive the most cursory of inspection. Whyte protested that season tickets had not been sold in advance, that he used his own money to buy the club. Both complete fabrications. Yet until the very end of Whyte’s time with the club, he, like Murray still, was regarded as hero by a fan-base which badly wanted to believe that the approaching car-crash could be avoided.

Enter Charles Green. Having been bitten twice already, the fans’ first instincts were to be suspicious of his motives. Yet in one of history’s greatest ironic turnarounds, he saw off the challenge of real Rangers-minded folk (like John Brown and Paul Murray) and their warnings, and by appealing to what many regard as the baser instincts of the fan-base became the third hero to emerge in the boardroom in as many years. The irony of course is that Green himself shouldn’t really pass any kind of Rangers sniff-test; personal, sporting, business or cultural; and yet there he is the spokesman for 140 years of the aspirations of a quarter of the country’s fans.

To be fair though, what else could Rangers fans do? Green had managed (and shame on the administration process and football authorities for this) to pick up the assets of the club for less (nett) than Craig Whyte and still maintained a presence in the major leagues.

If they hadn’t backed him only the certainty of doom lay before them. It was Green’s way or the highway in other words – and speaking of words, his sounded mighty fine. But do the real Rangers minded people really buy into it all?

First consider McCoist. I do not challenge his credentials as a Rangers minded man, and his compelling need to be an effective if often ineloquent spokesman for the fans. However, according to James Traynor (who was then acting as an unofficial PR advisor to the Rangers manager), McCoist was ready to walk in July (no pun intended) because he did not trust Green. The story was deliberately leaked, to undermine Green, by both Traynor and McCoist. McCoist also refused for a long period of time to endorse the uptake of season books by Rangers fans, even went as far as to say he couldn’t recommend it.

So what changed? Was it a Damascene conversion to the ways of Green, or was it the 250,000 shares in the new venture that he acquired. Nothing improper or unethical – but is it idealism? Is it fighting for the cause?

Now think Traynor. I realise that can be unpleasant, but bear with me.

Firstly, when he wrote that story on McCoist’s resignation, (and later backed it up on radio claiming he had spoken to Ally before printing the story), he was helping McCoist to twist Green’s arm a little. Now, and I’m guessing that Charles didn’t take this view when he saw the story in question, Green thinks that Traynor is a “media visionary”?

Traynor also very publicly, in a Daily Record leader, took the “New Club line” and was simultaneously contemptuous of Green.

What happened to change both their minds about each other? Could it have been (for Green) the PR success of having JT on board and close enough to control, and (for Traynor) an escape route for a man who had lost the battle with own internal social media demons?

Or, given both McCoist’s and Traynor’s past allegiance to David Murray, is it something else altogether?

Whatever it is, both Traynor and McCoist have started to sing from a totally different hymn sheet to Charles Green since the winding up order story became public. McCoist’s expert étude in equivocation at last Friday’s press conference would have had the Porter in Macbeth slamming down the portcullis (now there’s an irony). He carefully distanced himself from his chairman and ensured that his hands are clean. Traynor has been telling one story, “we have an agreement on the bill”, and Green another, “we are not paying it”.

And what of Walter Smith? At first, very anti-Charles Green, he even talked about Green’s “new club”. Then a period of silence followed by his being co-opted to the board and a “same club” statement. Now in the face of the damaging WUP story, more silence. Hardly a stamp of approval on Green’s credentials is it?

Rangers fans would be right to be suspicious of any non-Rangers people extrapolating from this story to their own version of Armageddon, but shouldn’t they also reserve some of that scepticism for Green and Traynor (neither are Rangers men, and both with only a financial interest in the club) when they say “all is well” whilst the real Rangers man (McCoist) is only willing to say “as far as I have been told everything is well”

As a Celtic fan, it may be a fair charge to say that I don’t have Rangers best interests at heart, but I do not wish for their extinction, nor do I believe that one should ignore a quarter of the potential audience for our national game. Never thought I’d hear myself say this, but apart from one (admittedly mightily significant) character defect, I can look at the Rangers of Struth and Simon, Gillick and Morton, Henderson and Baxter, and Waddell and Lawrence (and God help me even Jock Wallace) with fondness and a degree of nostalgia.

I suspect most Rangers fans are deeply unhappy about how profoundly their club has changed. To be fair, my own club no longer enchants me in the manner of old. As sport has undergone globalisation, everything has changed. Our relationship to our clubs has altered, the business models have shifted, and the aspirations of clubs is different from that of a generation ago. It has turned most football clubs into different propositions from the institutions people of my generation grew up supporting, but Rangers are virtually unrecognisable.

The challenge right now for Rangers fans is this. How much more damage will be done to the club’s legacy before this saga comes to an end?

And by then will it be too late to do anything about it?

Most people on this blog know my views about the name of Green’s club. I really don’t give a damn because for me it is not important. I do know, like Craig Whyte said, that in the fullness of time there will be a team called Rangers, playing football in a blue strip at Ibrox, and in the top division in the country.

I understand that this may be controversial to many of our contributors, but I hope that this incarnation of Rangers is closer to that of Lawrence and Simon than to Murray and Souness.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

4,442 Comments so far

ratethisthenyabampotsPosted on8:49 pm - Feb 28, 2013


To follow on from my unfortunate turn of phrase yesterday about spending a penny on Scottish football, this bum will never sit in a Scottish football stadium again. That I guarantee :'( Thanks for destroying the game I used to play and love. Put simply. I have better things to spend my money on than this farce. It really hurts that it’s my poor 1st division team that will suffer the most but this sham is pointless contributing to in it’s present guise. The illusion that the game was fair has been blown sky high. Nuclear.

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greenockjackPosted on8:51 pm - Feb 28, 2013


LT Lurker

The remark wasn´t really directed at you specifically.

Anyway, “if” implies a degree of belief.

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Richard Wilson (@timomouse)Posted on8:55 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Oh, and just a note on John McGlynn.

Hearts are 15 points clear of Dundee
If Hearts enter administration, they lose 17 points putting them 2 points behind Dundee.

If Hearts believe that they will stave off administration, there is no need to put in place a measure ostensibly designed to improve performances that there is no reason to improve as Hearts are not realistically going to be in the top 6.

Sacking McGlynn is only logical if Hearts are going into administration before the end of the season.

One can only hope that Hearts are being stereotypically illogical.

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TartawulverPosted on8:55 pm - Feb 28, 2013


angus1983 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 20:41

BBC Sport:
Rangers: Sir David Murray critical of ‘witch hunt’
—————————————————
A market tip for you all…buy shares in Brasso asap. With all the polishing up of brass necks going on, supply is about to outstrip demand.

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TartawulverPosted on8:57 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Mind you, if it goes that way round, the shares will be as good a tip as [*insert name of company here]! Then again, if demand outstrips supply…

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StevieBCPosted on8:57 pm - Feb 28, 2013


About
The Scottish Football Monitor
=======================
… The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM)…
=========================================================
I think we know where we are with officialdom & the Scottish MSM, and today’s outcome has just reinforced the opinions of many: nothing has changed.

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BayviewGoldPosted on8:58 pm - Feb 28, 2013


From the spartans website : “SFA Hearing Outcome

Posted on Thursday, November 10th, 2011

After a very fair hearing at today’s Judicial Panel we have been expelled from the Scottish Cup for the failure to register Keith McLeod. We have also received a fine which has been suspended for 12 months.

We submitted Keith’s forms back in July. It was returned by the SFA as we had omitted the commencement dates from one of the forms. We didn’t receive the return letter so we assumed all was in order. Unfortunately we failed to check with the SFA that the form had been registered correctly.

The SFA accepted that we had not been trying to gain an unfair advantage.”

note the last sentence – a simple “admin error” with no intent of unfair advantage in that case led to being thrown out of the competition.

http://www.spartansfc.com/2011/11/10/sfa-hearing-outcome/

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Lord WobblyPosted on8:59 pm - Feb 28, 2013


greenockjack says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 20:42
0 0 Rate This
Then you have to factor in what amounted to a campaign to
maximise damage on Rangers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’d prefer to factor that in as a search for the truth. We appear to agree (as do various professional bodies) that Rangers had a case to answer. To not pursue that would have been negligent.

Enjoy your evening.

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findingnimmoPosted on9:02 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Hope fans do not give up on other clubs who have abided fairly within disclosure and taxation rules which this ex- club appears to have got away with but whole process is clearer vindication of paranoia than a bucket of antipsychotics…

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SeniorPosted on9:02 pm - Feb 28, 2013


The Day The Music Died.
______________________

OK emotion is dictating most of the posts on here and elsewhere.

The game is on it’s last legs. The fools in Hampden cannot see it.
Talk of loyalty to your own club and renewing S Tickets means nothing. You now know that the odds are officially against every club in Scotland that comes up against servco. What’s the point in playing in these leagues? The organisation is corrupt from top to bottom. Is it possible to accept that the officials at any game in the future have not been got at?
One club can play fast with the registration rule, but all others must comply!

As I said earlier, today may will spell the end of several clubs including Celtic, how ironic that is!
The Chairmen of the SPL clubs played a cute game by remaining quiet. They have jeopardised the game in Scotland by their cuteness. It is once again the ordinary fans who are asked to step up to the plate and save the game.
But there is one chance to undo these smart asses in Hampden.
That is to boycott all games on the 9th/10th March – it’s the only way.
This is a much better tactic than just walking away in dribs and drabs.
It is a last chance to save the game.

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zoylerPosted on9:03 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Imagine what it must be like be like for honest, upright, honourable The Rangers fans tonight. In their heart of hearts they know their club cheated, – they know their’ friends’ have done all they can to subvert natural justice and all notions of honour. They will never admit it. but they know and they also know that for as long as the have anybody in Scotland they will be reminded of the cheats their club has been. Would you like to be in their shoes?

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zoylerPosted on9:05 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Please insert the words ‘to play’ after the word Scotland!

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borussiabeefburgPosted on9:09 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 20:55

Oh, and just a note on John McGlynn.

Hearts are 15 points clear of Dundee
If Hearts enter administration, they lose 17 points putting them 2 points behind Dundee.

If Hearts believe that they will stave off administration, there is no need to put in place a measure ostensibly designed to improve performances that there is no reason to improve as Hearts are not realistically going to be in the top 6.

Sacking McGlynn is only logical if Hearts are going into administration before the end of the season.

One can only hope that Hearts are being stereotypically illogical.
_______________________________________

I think McGlynn has gone from Hearts for roughly the same reason Barry Smith departed Dundee: both Hearts and Dundee think it will help them win a cup tie, in the case of Hearts a trophy as well.

Maybe.

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BayviewGoldPosted on9:09 pm - Feb 28, 2013


The LNS report says that Rangers did not gain an “unfair advantage” – let’s think about that : “Definition of unfair (oxford online)
adjective
not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice
not following the rules of a game or sport

So did the SPL not have a rule against declaring ALL payments?

“Definition of advantage (oxford online)
noun
a condition or circumstance that puts one in a favourable or superior position

By employing and fielding higher quality players by offering them more money than declared to the governing body – surely an advantage?

So do we not have a clear cut case of “unfair (not following the clearly written rules) advantage (higher quality players)”

scratches head and is glad I didn’t pursue a legal career.

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incredibleadamsparkPosted on9:12 pm - Feb 28, 2013


The stripping of titles was always just one of a number of punishments available to LNS. The rhetoric used meant we were always heading towards a ‘victory’ or ‘defeat’ scenario. A scenario that allows McCoist, despite Rangers being found guilty of making undisclosed payments to a number of players, deliberately withholding this information from the relevant authorities and receiving the largest fine in the history of Scottish football, to be ‘delighted in many ways’ by the decision and for SDM to be ‘satisfied’ with the outcome.

There has been too much hyperbole and nonsense passed off as the facts from both sides. Rangers have been found guilty but the punishment is not enough for most on here. Fair enough.

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bailemeanachPosted on9:13 pm - Feb 28, 2013


bayviewgold says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 20:58
1 0 i
Rate This

From the spartans website : “SFA Hearing Outcome

Posted on Thursday, November 10th, 2011

After a very fair hearing at today’s Judicial Panel we have been expelled from the Scottish Cup for the failure to register Keith McLeod. We have also received a fine which has been suspended for 12 months.

We submitted Keith’s forms back in July. It was returned by the SFA as we had omitted the commencement dates from one of the forms. We didn’t receive the return letter so we assumed all was in order. Unfortunately we failed to check with the SFA that the form had been registered correctly.

The SFA accepted that we had not been trying to gain an unfair advantage.”

note the last sentence – a simple “admin error” with no intent of unfair advantage in that case led to being thrown out of the competition.

________________________________________________________________

bayviewgold

Interesting – when I first read this my instinct was that SFA were challenging the registration on an administrative point, therefore consistent with LNS ruling. That was assuming it wasn’t applied retrospectively. However noting the timeline – forms submitted in July, and panel hearing in November, is this not a retrospective revoking of registration, which we were told today cannot be applied? Can anyone advise?

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spanishceltPosted on9:15 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 19:58

My view for what its worth – LNS fair, independent enquiry. Reasoned conclusion based on evidence and the rule book, such as it is.
…………………………………………………………………….
I see numerous posts now saying LNS came to a fair and honest conclusion which in my opinion is total bullsht.
He may have worded his report in such a way to look that it was fair and honest but this whole fiasco is anything but.
He could surely have looked at precedent where there are plenty of cases of clubs and players, both profesional and even amatuer being thrown out of competitions and even suspended sin die.
He/they must have been aware of several cases in recent history where the SFA acted on their existing rules and using these same rules then there is absolutely no doubt that a serious offence was knowingly commited with the intention to reduce costs and increase the quality and numbers of players available to them, which must have given them an unfair advantage.
LNS, fair and honest , my erse!

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upthehoopsPosted on9:15 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Many on here have written that the only way Sevco can get to the level of domination over 25 years enjoyed by the old club, will be to return to the old clubs ways. It would be amazing if Green wasn’t actually on the lookout for someone daft enough to lend them millions, and is actively seeking the advice of dodgy tax advisers. After all, the bottom line is they know they can get away with virtually anything.

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BayviewGoldPosted on9:16 pm - Feb 28, 2013


incredibleadamspark says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 21:12

There has been too much hyperbole and nonsense passed off as the facts from both sides. Rangers have been found guilty but the punishment is not enough for most on here. Fair enough.

Adam i tend to agree with the thrust of your post but take issue with two parts – punishment, in reality a 250,000 fine to oldco is no punishment, or really only punishes the already punished creditors (who are innoncent), also I still can’t connect the guilty decision with the “no unfair advantage” that logic escapes me. Regardless – my issue is with the governing bodies more than Rangers.

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SeniorPosted on9:18 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Please please make it the mantra 9th/10th March. Why not? The game is destroyed anyway.
What are we afraid of? Get the word out.

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justshateredPosted on9:20 pm - Feb 28, 2013


I must admit to knowing no more than I read trawling the various websites concerning football and doing a little digging myself but to my untrained eye this verdict does seem strange. I would think that it would seem strange to most people even of ‘The Rangers’ persuasion.
Considering that RFC did not pay taxes for almost 9 months and had a transfer embargo placed upon them then this judgement seems extremely light.
When you consider that in fielding players with a, shall we say, dubious registration pedigree they won five league titles at £2M a pop on top of the prize money for the other trophies. This probably comes to just over £13M that was won and this is before we come to European competition cash. This is a lot of money going to a dubious winner.
Now either a rule is a rule or it isn’t. I was unaware that there was a statute of limitations on rule breaking within sport.
Without actually having read the verdict it seems to be that if you are not caught at the point of registration then your home free.
So if we take that a tad further what exactly do the SFA and SPL check when a player is registered?
What is their purpose?
They are supposed to audit clubs accounts. Over the last few years they have clearly not been doing that.
They are supposed to ensure that no social taxes are outstanding for teams competing in UEFA competitions. Nope they don’t do that either.
Now we have the registration issue. If you don’t tell us we won’t ask and you can carry on even when you are caught because we didn’t know. So in other words once you’re registered all bets are off.

I can’t believe that this was put forward as mitigation but worse still that it was accepted by a group of senior judges. You would love to be up in front of these guys in court and pull that defence. I wonder if any one of them considered the ramifications of accepting this defence in a sporting context or indeed bothered to ask the question of why the rule for the disclosure of all payments was there if it could be by passed by a nod and a wink.

Any way the decision has been made now and, pending ratification by the SPL Board, will now pass into the annals of history.
I made a prediction some time ago on the old RTC site that I believed that within five years crowds would be back to a level of the mid-eighties and that Celtic would be playing to crowds of under thirty thousand. I received lots of thumbs down for that but that premonition was based on the simple facts that the media continually down play our own national sport and the people who run it, from referees to SPL/SFA are so arrogant and insular not to mention spectacularly incompetent, that they couldn’t sell sand to a man making a humongous sand castle.
I think I will now have to revise that decision downward because regardless of whatever way this decision is sliced it does not bode well for our sport.
To most supporters out with ‘The Rangers’ our sport now seems simply run for one club and if your club manages to win anything then it was by sheer accident or luck and perhaps a big bit of both. From the point of administration this whole farce has been grossly miss managed first of all to allow a club that was bankrupt to continue to the end of the season. To the bullying of member clubs by the SPL, SFA, and SFL our sport has taken a body blow from the very people who were duty bound to protect it and that is unforgivable. A President is still in place who is, even after today’s judgement, unfit to hold the office he is in and two Chief Executives completely out of their depth. What has been laid bare in this whole episode is the shocking nepotism, cronyism, and downright skulduggery at the heart of our sport and that is what really hurts.
One club will rise from this period stronger but, unfortunately for the rest of us, it is the spoilt child of another club that led the country through thirty years of unaccountable, quite literally, spending and that ran away from a mountain of debt that was truly staggering. The other clubs within the SPL will, I fear, be financially wounded by what has occurred over the last twelve months and that culminated today. For competition that can’t be good but then again perhaps competition had actually become a dirty word within the corridors of power. Or competition is alright as long as the winner is already agreed by the powers that be.
As for myself I will take stock over the next few weeks and hopefully be allowed some dialogue with my club. I will have to be re-assured that this shameful episode of financial recklessness and corporate negligence will never be allowed to snowball to this extent again and I will want to know what new checks and balances will now be put in place before I part with any more of my money but I fear that I will not be one of the ‘mid-eighties’ attendees having lost all respect for football in this country.

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BayviewGoldPosted on9:25 pm - Feb 28, 2013


bailemeanach says:

Interesting – when I first read this my instinct was that SFA were challenging the registration on an administrative point, therefore consistent with LNS ruling. That was assuming it wasn’t applied retrospectively. However noting the timeline – forms submitted in July, and panel hearing in November, is this not a retrospective revoking of registration, which we were told today cannot be applied? Can anyone advise?

here is my take on the weaseling out of this – the forms were sent in incorrectly filled out, therefore in the spartans case they are not saying they revoked the registration but simply that it never took place, spartans in their claim made the point that they never received notice that it was incorrect and assumed that everything was ok. Just as rangers assumed the non-disclosure of the EBT money was ok but in their case the players were registered & eligible, if rangers had simply asked the SPL if they were eligible then the SPL could have declared them “not” at the time and avoided the SPL dismay today at not being able to retroactively apply the rule, so it’s not the SPL fault but rangers should have pointed out they were in the wrong at the start – that surely must be the “admin error”

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Long Time LurkerPosted on9:28 pm - Feb 28, 2013


spanishcelt says:

Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 21:15

One of my friends once served on a jury – they were very cautions and did not break the rules of confidentiality concerning the case. They spoke in generic terms.

They noted that most of the jury felt that the accused was guilty – they did not say why they felt that to be the case.

The judge had directed the jury to find the accused not guilty on a point of law.

I believe that the actions and the intentions of RFC mean that they are low life cheats.

However, they do not appear to have broken any written rule(s).

If LNS concucted a guilty verdict when none could be found – then that would make LNS (and I suggest us) just as bad as them.

Don’t get me wrong I am p!ssed off beyond belief. But I know that we can hang our heads up high – and that others cannot.

I was close tonight to turning my back on Aberdeen FC and Pittrodrie – I have decided that I am not going to do that. I am now going to let any low life sc#m take my club away from me.

For those who believe that they cannot return to their clubs – I respect that decision. On a personal basis its not one that I can make at this time.

Stand free.

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BayviewGoldPosted on9:28 pm - Feb 28, 2013


justshatered says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 21:20

excellent post

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borussiabeefburgPosted on9:37 pm - Feb 28, 2013


LNS: “Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of the SPL Rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements.”

While I bow to those who understand the reasons LNS had to make the decision he did, under guidance from the expert SFA registrations fellow, I don’t get how his group could make a decision on the sporting side (“did not gain any unfair competitive advantage”). Of course, in the field of judiciary, his proficiency is beyond reproach. But a football field?

With such an all encompassing football decision being made by Lord Nimmo Smith, maybe the guy should be on SSB, or Off the Ball displaying his soccer expertise, no doubt gleaned at such establishments as Eton and Balliol College.

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aramintamoobeamqcPosted on9:38 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Have been home a while reading Twitter and some excellent and well considered posts on here. The whole situation is heart-breaking. What a choice.

On the one hand, to desert a game I was raised watching, since my late Dad (a former player, who never made it at the top level after a horrific injury in his early 20s) took me to my first game at the age of three weeks.

On the other – like most on here, I work hard to make money for me and mine. 80 odd hours a week in a demanding job (which I love). To continue to blithely hand over this hard earned cash to subsidise the likes of Ogilvie, is not an option.

So, on balance, I’m out. I cannot participate in this charade any further. Sorry Dad.

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bailemeanachPosted on9:42 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Bayviewgold
Thanks for the prompt response. It seems to me an obvious means of avoiding any such confusion in future is to have some simple kind of “receipt” of satisfactory documentation issued to the registering club.
It can’t be that difficult – give them maybe a 2-3 week window to issue confirmation that documents have been registered to their satisfaction, along with a copy of the documents. It could even be done electronically, with an audit trail for any future scrutiny.

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onceabhoyPosted on9:48 pm - Feb 28, 2013


What happens now if the UTT finds against 1872, does the SPL/SFA then revisit this process as the 1872 team will have been found to avoid taxes and in doing so gain an unfair advantage which would pretty much blow this sham into touch where it belongs?

Or does CO have another joker up his sleeve in the corridors of power?

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bailemeanachPosted on9:57 pm - Feb 28, 2013


onceabhoy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 21:48
What happens now if the UTT finds against 1872, does the SPL/SFA then revisit this process as the 1872 team will have been found to avoid taxes and in doing so gain an unfair advantage which would pretty much blow this sham into touch where it belongs?
¬_____________________________________________________________
I’m a novice at this stuff, but it seems to me that there was an investigation purely into tax law, and then an investigation purely into football law, and never the twain shall meet.
The frustrating element is that they do cross over, and when they do, that’s where the wrongdoing jumps out at the fan in the street.
If these 2 investigations had been allowed to collaborate, well who knows? All speculation

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faza2010Posted on9:59 pm - Feb 28, 2013


For Nuclear Event…….. read Nuclear Winter….and it will happen!

The strength of feeling of the fans has been ignored/ridiculed by all those in a position of authority to a degree that all real supporters will possibly decide that there is only one course of action left to take, and I believe that they will.

Don’t post often but this whole charade twists my melon!

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pau1mart1nPosted on9:59 pm - Feb 28, 2013


If these 2 investigations had been allowed to collaborate, well who knows? All speculation

I know exactly.
heidi loses 5-1.

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SquigglePosted on10:00 pm - Feb 28, 2013


I’ve been a reader and an always ignored poster here. Never had a conversation on any of the points I have raised. Didn’t take the huff ‘cos I reckoned those that knew more than I did or could express same better were entitled to the floor. And that it would be for the better of Scottish Football! What a clown I was.

After last night’s result ( following on from the weekend’s in Motherwell’s case) and today’s ‘verdict’ I am surer than ever that one team, one club, is the natural enemy for all of Scottish football. All you supporters of Motherwell, Falkirk, Kilmarnock and the like – you must be happy that your big team are still ‘the big team’.

I will hold my hoops tighter tonight and I know that they are green.

Tonight I choose to remember Belfast Celtic, stolen money from Celtic to build roofs over the west enclosure at Hampden, trophy’s presented in changing rooms, riots all over Europe, murders in Glasgow, Jorge Cadette, Hugh Dallas, tax dodging, liquidation, rapid vienna, ‘the bunnet’, the ‘ biscuit tin’, fivers and tenners, hover pitches, Sir Donald Findlay QC, beatings p in Houston, dog whistling, Danny McGrain being an international ‘ opposite’ full back, Jimmy Johnstone’s cap number, Lord Nimmo Smith, Lord Carloway, Jim Farry, Duff and duffer, Doncaster and Regan…………………………..

I’m nnot turning my back on anything – I’m more up for it than ever, but never will be here again.

Bye.

Hail Hail.

GIRFUY.

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dentarthurdent42Posted on10:04 pm - Feb 28, 2013


I won’t be giving up on my club because Scottish football is institutionally corrupt. That comes as no surprise to me. It has been for as long as I can remember. That has just been confirmed over this whole tawdry saga.

If other people want to do that, fair enough and good luck, I fully understand your position.

However, for me my club is my club. The fact that the league they are in and the association which controls it is corrupt and run by cowards and cheats is not the point.

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liveinhopPosted on10:04 pm - Feb 28, 2013


What happened to the winding up order any news

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bailemeanachPosted on10:06 pm - Feb 28, 2013


know exactly.
heidi loses 5-1.

Not talking about an aggregate score, rather taking into account evidence that was exclusive to each investigation, but which is relevant to both. But I take your point!

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barcabhoyPosted on10:06 pm - Feb 28, 2013


The Spartans case gets even worse on further investigation. The player concerned had played at Spartans for 10 concecutive years. This was merely a contract renewal, not the signing of a new player.

The Scottish Cup seems to have even less wriggle room, although will we be subjected to Bryson telling us again that as long as you hide required information in a deliberately deceiving manner and don’t get caught at the time , then it’s all ok with the SFA

How else will Bryson deal with this:

Scottish Cup rules now state that any club that plays a player that is not eligible will be thrown out of the competition.

The rules also state that neither the judicial panel or anyone at the SFA has the authority to change this rule.

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paulmac2Posted on10:08 pm - Feb 28, 2013


shield2012 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 17:22

paulmac2 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 17:14

shield2012 says:

Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:52

timalloy67 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 16:18

” But LNS confirmed in writing RFC DID CHEAT”

————–

No they didn’t!
………………

What is your definition of deliberatly witholding details of contractual payments to a player when the regulations that govern world football clearly states they must be declared before the player is eligable to play professional football for the club in question?

————-

I think it’s been well documented – it was an administrative error. Cheating is acting dishonestly to gain an advantage. They might have acted dishonestly but there was no advantage.
………………………………………………………………

You contradict yourself dear chap in your stretching efforts to condone Rangers Football Clubs dishonest efforts to conceal player payments…

As you state…’they might have acted dishonestly’….dishonesty in sport?….it’s known as cheating to anyone with an ounce of honesty!

LNS may have delivered the verdict he was guided to by the SFA…BUT ITS CHEATING…YOU KNOW IT AND I KNOW…and the SFA had an industrial size mess to deal with if LNS had removed titles….I guess that will explain their guidance to LNS..

Administrative error?…makes no difference it still does not comply with the regulations as set out by FIFA…the players were ineligable…the SFA are in breach of the FIFA regulations…

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Lord WobblyPosted on10:10 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Peter A Smith @PeterAdamSmith 1h
We have @alextomo @GrahamSpiers @ChrisGraham76 and
@TomEnglishSport on #scotnight at 10.30pm on STV.

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bailemeanachPosted on10:18 pm - Feb 28, 2013


barcabhoy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:06

barca – are all details of payments to players to be declared at each renewal of contract as well as at initial registration? Or are they to be declared each season? Today’s result suggests that it’s a one off on registration with club

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BrendaPosted on10:19 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Heidi Poon 🙂 what a woman, spot on and honest, wish there more like you 🙂

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Lord WobblyPosted on10:19 pm - Feb 28, 2013


barcabhoy says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:06
1 0 Rate This
The Spartans case gets even worse on further investigation. The player concerned had played at Spartans for 10 concecutive years.
This was merely a contract renewal, not the signing of a new
player.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As was the recent Hutchison Vale registration fiasco. But of course these were genuine mistakes, not the premeditated dismissal of the rule book undertaken by Rangers, so those teams of amateurs and kids are clearly deserving of the full penalty of law.

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Humble PiePosted on10:20 pm - Feb 28, 2013


The Game’s A Bogey – The Illusion of Freedom

I am neither shocked nor surprised by today’s ruling, just saddened.

Anyone who has read any of my previous posts will know that I have long since concluded that the football authorities in this country are corrupt beyond redemption and I began to see this as a microcosm of the corporate malaise infecting our society in general. Any faith I once had that justice would eventually be exacted on the ‘wrongdoers’ in the Rangers saga had gradually dissipated throughout this last year and I awaited, more in hope than expectation, the correct interpretation of the rules by the ‘unbiased’ legal minds from outside of the football arena.

Well, today these faint hopes have been dashed, permanently, with Lord Nimmo Smith’s ruling finally putting an end to any optimism for the salvation of our once beautiful game. In the opinion of the authorities and those with responsibility for ruining (sorry, running) our game, Rangers (in one form or another) were quite simply ‘too big to fail’. In one fell swoop, all clubs/companies (I can’t work out which is which anymore) have now been provided with a legal precedent to fall back on and an unprecedented licence to deceive, dupe and delude their customers. The SFA and the SPL have made a mockery of our understanding of the words ‘rules’, ‘sportsmanship’ and ‘fair play’.

We have debated endlessly on these pages about the interpretation, application and the ‘spirit’ of the rules of Scottish football and had, at least to my mind, reached a consensus that there was indeed wilful ‘cheatery’ going on at Ibrox for over a decade. The only issue that remained to be determined was whether or not they would ‘get away with it’. Well, now we all know the answer to that one. Sir David Murray got away with it, Campbell Ogilvie got away with it, Martin Bain got away with it, Gordon Smith got away with it etc, etc, etc, and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it. The problem for me is that the SFA and the SPL (and that includes my own club) conspired to allow the investigation just enough wiggle room for these corrupt individuals to ‘get away with it’.

Rangers, on the other hand, did not really get away with anything. Rangers FC are dead and their illegitimate offspring The Rangers languish in the bottom tier of our league system.

You could argue (as the eminent judge has ruled) that the use of EBT’s did not give old Rangers an unfair advantage on the field of play (even Bob Malcolm got one FFS!), however there can be no dispute that their use certainly gave the club an unfair financial advantage, allowing them to buy players they could not have otherwise afforded, which included buying star players from competing teams only to warm their benches and to stop their rivals from having them.

It is probably as pointless stripping ethereal titles from a deceased club as it is imposing a fine on a liquidated company anyway. All we were really looking for was a fleeting symbol of justice, small sign of fairness and equity in the application of the rules and laws of the sport. Instead we were treated to a good old-fashioned ‘slap in the face’ and a timely reminder of just ‘who’s boss’ around these parts. And do you know what ? we probably deserve it.

In my humble opinion, it’s our own fault (yes, you and me) for thinking we could change anything by battering a few postings onto this blog or by having reasoned debate with like-minded people whose opinions have never been and will never be listened to. We could’ve petitioned en masse to insist on application of the rules ‘without fear or favour’, but we didn’t. We could’ve held a rally outside Hampden to demand the resignation of the conflicted President and CEO, but we didn’t. We could’ve even lobbied or (dog forbid) boycotted our own clubs until the board complied with our requests to ensure everyone was treated the same, but again we didn’t. Most of us just opined, complained, argued and grumbled, smug in the certainty that ‘someone will do something about this’. Well they didn’t and neither did we.

To his eternal credit, Auldheid has spent a lot of time and effort trying to construct a ‘manifesto’ of sorts for fans of all clubs to sign up to demanding the primacy of ‘sporting integrity’ in Scottish football. Sadly, for us all, this has more or less fallen on deaf ears. Ignorance and apathy appears rife amongst the Scottish Football faithful, either that or they are all just stupid.

I also fear that the brighter brains on this forum may have actually supplied the authorities with some of the ammunition required to help them implement this fudge ruling. The use of the terms ‘Newco’ and ‘Oldco’, for example, which first arose on RTC, have become widely used by the SFA, SPL and the mainstream media in order to confuse the actual status of The Rangers FC and allowed the notion of an ethereal ‘club’ existing outside the bounds of legal culpability to be perpetuated to the ignorant masses. Even Lord Nimmo Smith used these terms frequently in his final judgement.

In the end, everyone who financially supports the SFA or any club in the SPL has, up until now, unwittingly contributed to this fiasco. To continue to do so is to willingly participate in full awareness and knowledge that it is corrupt. If you know that the opposition don’t play by the rules and yet you continue to play by these same rules – you are simply asking for your own demise. This was never just about football rivalry, this was about taking a stand to stop corporate corruption running rampage through our game and our society in general. We failed and we failed spectacularly.

Corporate greed and the single-minded pursuit of profit has killed Scottish football.

They are laughing at us and, if we are honest, we merit their scorn.

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.” Frank Zappa

http://wp.me/p39hnj-3m

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ShooperbPosted on10:23 pm - Feb 28, 2013


achillesacronym says:

Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:00

Yep, that’s right – if you’re not for Celtic, then you’re really a supporter of Rangers, no matter what team you ‘pretend’ to support and spend your money on. No wonder you’ve never had a response with self-indulgent whingeing like that. So well done on getting me to bite.

There’s so much tripe in your little statement that deserves ridicule, but you know what, I can’t be arsed anymore. Today has just knocked the wind out of my sails completely. I suggest you go back to Phil’s site. They love that sort of thing.

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ratethisthenyabampotsPosted on10:23 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Onceabhoy. I said on here earlier today that as LNS reported his findings based on RFC winning Fttt that he’s kicking the can down the road. The Utt will likely be held outside Scotland (London?) and may very well produce a different and correct outcome. This would surely see today’s findings null and void. Therefore LNS (or whoever) would require a wee rethink.

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bect67Posted on10:25 pm - Feb 28, 2013


In Scottish Society (!), LNS is merely part of the sectarian establishment – whichever way it is ‘camouflaged. Hence the ‘out of jail’ verdicts for Oldco thus far.

Keeping the faith, ONLY if the UTT Tribunal is outwith the Scottish system, will a just verdict be returned – with HMRC and integrity prevailing.

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loamfeetPosted on10:27 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Captain Haddock says:

If Dostoyevsky had been a sports writer, would have written ‘Crime and not much Punishment’?

—————————

No doubt this verdict would move him to conclude that everything is permissible.

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SquigglePosted on10:32 pm - Feb 28, 2013


mendacity

You don’t know me. I am not that sort. And I am sorry, but go ahead and tell me how all the other clubs in Scotland are in the clear here! Most of them were shareholders in that scum (probably are again). Don’t lecture me. If you want to support a team go and do it, Celtic fans would always support that and it might stop this crap happening again.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:32 pm - Feb 28, 2013


when did the enquiry become about trying to establish if they “gained a sporting advantage”

all we wanted to know was “did they register their players correctly”

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ShooperbPosted on10:37 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Humble Pie says:

Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:20

With hindsight, I think it was as plain as the noses on our faces how this was going to play out. You only have to look at the interview that Regan gave to BBC Scotland a few short weeks ago. He was asked to justify his actions over the last 18 months, and his response was without Rangers, money would have poured out of the game. I’m just amazed that more wasn’t made of this at the time – the head of the SFA admitting that money trumped any other concern.

Unfortunately, whilst the Auldheid’s campaign was admirable, I think the SFASPL would have continued to ignore it no matter what. The depth of feeling about New Rangers being parachuted straight into the SPL was crystal clear to all the teams in the SPL, and yet they’d have gone ahead and done it anyway, until the fans saw that since money was so important to them, then they’d talk their language.

They were right when they said that Scottish football would die if Rangers were kicked out the SPL – well, ‘they’ were right, it has died, but not in the way they imagined.

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billyj1Posted on10:39 pm - Feb 28, 2013


I can only hope that when the SFA/SPL meet to discus the LNS decision they quite simply note the decision, and agree to continue consideration of the matter until the UTTT delivers its opinion.

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chipsandblogPosted on10:43 pm - Feb 28, 2013


broadswordcallingdannybhoy

you just need to realise that the manager is an idiot and there are many like him. This whole thing feels like a film plot and the only part of the script that went wrong was the shoehorning of TRFc into the SPL.

Rangers still have a long road back to the top and their as usual, angry fans will let their guard slip like Berwick time and again. When they get back their anger will be clear for all to see.

In all of this RFC were the cause and ‘getting off with it’ dos not equal innocent. Their fans can keep phoning up like a bully in the playground, demanding apologies but ultimately the club, the fans and as Dickens would say, great expectations caused their own downfall.

The only sadness I feel id the silence of all clubs who seem to back our inept governors of our game. These amateurs should never have been given prominent positions.

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ShooperbPosted on10:46 pm - Feb 28, 2013


achillesacronym says:

Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:32

I do know that if every other club got together to try and stop this from happening, then it would have been an annoyance, but not much more than that. There’s only one club in Scotland outwith Ibrox with the sort of commercial clout whose stand could have made a difference – and yet here we are, so you might want to point fingers closer to home before you blast the supposed pretendy fans of smaller clubs.

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chipsandblogPosted on10:48 pm - Feb 28, 2013


areyouaccusingmeofmendacity, no all clubs have clout

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manandboyPosted on10:48 pm - Feb 28, 2013


THE SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE LIMITED

DECISION by

THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH,
NICHOLAS STEWART QC and
CHARLES FLINT QC
[1] For the reasons which are set out in detail below the Commission has unanimously
decided:

(6) Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of
the SPL Rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements, nor
did the non-disclosure have the effect that any of the registered players were ineligible
to play, and for this and other reasons no sporting sanction or penalty should be
imposed upon Rangers FC;

In order to spend a “tenner for every fiver” spent by Celtic, SDM used the EBT scheme.

The EBT scheme as used by RFC sought to gain an unfair competitive advantage.

The EBT scheme at RFC could not work however, if the details were to be widely known.

‘Discretion’ about the EBT ‘loans’ was paramount, lest HMRC became interested.

Non disclosure to the SFA was a necessary part of the ‘discretion’ needed in the RFC EBT scheme.

The way RFC registered their players was an essential part of the EBT scheme.

It was part of it in the same way that the driver of the getaway car is part of a gang of bank robbers

LNS, NS QC, and CF QC, have chosen, it appears, to turn a blind eye to this fact and instead treated the non disclosure of the side letters in the player registrations as totally separate from the EBT scheme.

In other words, LNS et al, have, IMO, declared the driver of the getaway car innocent .

In spite of what the Commission ruled, RFC did gain an unfair advantage in deliberately failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements.

But we all make mistakes. I just wonder if this one will be rectified.

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notnearlydeadbutreallydeadPosted on10:49 pm - Feb 28, 2013


erm .. time to close this websitedown……….
there is nothing left to monitor
SCOTTISH FOOTBALL AS A FAIR COMPETITION IS DEAD

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BayviewGoldPosted on10:50 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Humble Pie said “In my humble opinion, it’s our own fault (yes, you and me) for thinking we could change anything by battering a few postings onto this blog or by having reasoned debate with like-minded people whose opinions have never been and will never be listened to. We could’ve petitioned en masse to insist on application of the rules ‘without fear or favour’, but we didn’t. We could’ve held a rally outside Hampden to demand the resignation of the conflicted President and CEO, but we didn’t. We could’ve even lobbied or (dog forbid) boycotted our own clubs until the board complied with our requests to ensure everyone was treated the same, but again we didn’t. Most of us just opined, complained, argued and grumbled, smug in the certainty that ‘someone will do something about this’. Well they didn’t and neither did we.

To his eternal credit, Auldheid has spent a lot of time and effort trying to construct a ‘manifesto’ of sorts for fans of all clubs to sign up to demanding the primacy of ‘sporting integrity’ in Scottish football. Sadly, for us all, this has more or less fallen on deaf ears. Ignorance and apathy appears rife amongst the Scottish Football faithful, either that or they are all just stupid.

That is a much more literate and clear description of my thoughts on this matter and also sums up my periodic dismay of the Blog direction which at times veered into a RFC Share watch or theological bulletin board . We all share some of the blame. Regardless of our clubs (yes even those guys in green hoops). As for SFA/SPL/SFL office bearers – we must clear these incompetent amateurs out of our game, league reconstruction – who gives a f..k, I want reconstruction of our governing bodies.

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The GlenPosted on10:57 pm - Feb 28, 2013


I suspect a lot of Rangers fans just want to see the back of this. That there still is a Rangers (the same one or not) playing football should be good enough. I’m not a Title Counter.

Today wasn’t a victory for Rangers, they were found guilty of breaking rules.

From a personal point of view, I am disappointed that Rangers employed a rather suspect tax avoidance system (and did their very best to hide it from the authorities) in order to pay players that they would not have been able to afford otherwise. The footballers won competitions on the field of play during those years, that much is true, but perhaps that would not have been the case had those players been paid as other teams did.

That said, at this moment in time, 2 out of 3 people at the FTT hearing decided that Rangers had not gained any advantage by the use of this tax system and today 3 out of 3 panel members decided the same.

Both seem to have been “won” on technicalities and the interpretation of tax law and football rules.

I can understand the feelings of non Rangers fans, absolutely, but, if the cases had gone against Rangers on technicalities and the interpretation of tax law and football rules, would they be complaining?

Do you suggest that we keep re-trying the case until someone comes up with a result that you like?

Maybe the UTT will do just that. If so, I would accept their judgement, although quite what that would mean to todays result, I don’t know.

I would also suggest that no one walks away from the team they support, that only harms their team.

Although, if they chose to do so, I can recommend many Junior clubs who would welcome your support.

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goosyPosted on11:01 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Ah Well

Maybe its just as well these titles are not to be stripped

Imagine digging up a corpse just to remove its medals

Thers something not right about disturbing the dead

Better leaving them in the grave to rot away

At least we don`t have to mourn them

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SquigglePosted on11:05 pm - Feb 28, 2013


menadacity.

There is only one club in Scottish Football that has a poor relationship with the SFA – despite what the average sevconiain says, TRFC/RFC – anon – never really seem to have many problems with the governing body – Campbell Ogilivie, the Killie chairman, the ‘Airdrie’ chairman, the Falkirk chairman and that guy that runs the SFL these days, would probably be able to explain that to us in more detail.
Very recently our relationship has been at breaking point. There is only one club in Scottish football that has ever taken on UEFA – and we lost. We have tried to address injustice and got no support from any of the lions of the game.

From what I read, now that the scum are not part of the SPL we are also ready to consider redistribution of wealth amongst all clubs. We don’t deserve awards or credit – but please, stop having a go at Celtic – we are not the problem here. No matter how bent your logic is.

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BayviewGoldPosted on11:06 pm - Feb 28, 2013


theglen2012 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:57

A very reasoned post, I am curious, as a fair minded rangers supporter – do you feel that the governing bodies deserve your support? or would you agree that regardless of the legal outcomes they have proven to be incompetent? (I am not asking this to be derogatory to you)

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ekbhoyPosted on11:07 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Not sure why a good number of people are surprised at the outcome today? LNS will sort them out, don’t make me laugh .

The SFA are indeed a protection racket for Rangers and the judiciary are conforming to the modern standard of protecting the rich.

My view is that the SFA in their quest to protect Rangers are creating a vicious downward spiral and ruining the game. The outlook for the medium term 5 – 10 years is desperate , the incompetence of the SFA will result in total failure ………. The only issue is when this implodes.

Celtic strategy will be to sit tight, wait for the collapse and then move. There is absolutely anything anyone can do , as the SFA and the majority of club chairmen are complicit in this corruption.

Tomorrow’s headlines ” Corrupt Football Admin cosy up to Complicit and Compromised Judiciary”

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rabPosted on11:10 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Hello everyone.

Im not at all surprised by today’s ruling, we all know why these decisions always go the way of the establishment club.

Thanks to everyone for the education, the debate and the laughs. Huge thanks for RTC for sharing his information that leaves me in no doubt about the reasons behind the tax scheme, and the subsequent deliberate cheating by rangers by withholding information from the SFA, who through men like Gordon Smith and Campbell Ogilvie, knew exactly what was being done at Ibrox. The rulers have allowed the perpetrators enough legal jargon to justify their deluded claims of continuing history, tax evasion innocence, and administrative errors. However, the rest of us recognise liquidation, rule breaking, corruption and cover ups when we see it, and we can all clearly see what has happened.

Celtic will always be my club, but money is not to be wasted on a corrupt sport, its now lost to the game.

I see no reason to debate reconstruction, other clubs finances, rule breaking within the game, the msm, or any aspect of Scottish football actually as its like swatting flies from a huge stinking pile of shit while ignoring the shit that causing the stink in the first place.

Maybe this will be posted ( glad i missed greenock jack ) to thank the guys who brought us together and gave us 1% crap and 99% truth.

Thank you all and goodbye.

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chipsandblogPosted on11:14 pm - Feb 28, 2013


I have an idea that would resolve the concern that our referees and governing bodies are not neutral. Give TRFC 4 points per game and that way there will be less pressure on others to do the right thing.

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The GlenPosted on11:16 pm - Feb 28, 2013


bayviewgold says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 23:06

How Campbell Ogilvie is still employed there I don’t know.

Clearly conflicted – by his boss’s own admission.

That they tried to implement some sort of agreement to shoe-horn Rangers into either the SPL or SPL2 and strip titles with no investigation (I totally agree that the independent commission should have been set up to investigate any rule breaking – even if the result had gone against Rangers today) by bullying other clubs chairmen, imho, no they are not fit for purpose. As far as I can see they have either washed their hands of everything and left it up to other people to decide, or have tried and failed to help Rangers back into the SPL, then ducked back under the parapet.

I would rather see Rangers playing in the 3rd division (rightly or wrongly) and making their way back to the SPL on merit (doesn’t look to likely at the moment mind you) than be allowed just to waltz back in because of any money that the bring to the game.

My qualifying statement as ever is that you would have to ask a current season ticket holder their opinion – I was last at Ibrox in 1983. Wasn’t too many people there that day either.

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ekbhoyPosted on11:17 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Anything = nothing on last post

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BunionPosted on11:21 pm - Feb 28, 2013


achillesacronym says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:00

Read your diatribe, understand your frustration but here’s the kicker …… the fact you intend intend to continue supporting your own club is tacit support to the continuance of TRFC also.

This game isn’t going to change as a result of fans from Killie, Motherwell, etc leaving the game. It’s only when Celtic (the club, it’s fans or both) drop their financial support of the SPL and SFA coffers (albeit temporarily), that we’ll see real change.

If you wait until TRFC return to the top tier, it’ll be too late because they will have re-asserted their total control on the game by that time. Your window of opportunity is NOW.

So you see my good friend it is not the likes of I, a lowly Killie fan who is about to give up on the game for good after 40 years, that will affect change it is the tens of thousands of Celtic fans and/or the club sending a message loud and clear that will affect the necessary change.

But you just carry on supporting the rise of TRFC by continuing to finance your own club meantime.

CFC fans can thumbs down all you want but this is the reality you now face.

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forweonlyknowPosted on11:21 pm - Feb 28, 2013


theglen2012 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:57
2 0 Rate This
————————–

If only The Dead Rangers FC fans had backed their club!!

Life is strange in that way!

John Mc.

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parttimearabPosted on11:21 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Humble Pie says Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 22:20
Corporate greed and the single-minded pursuit of profit has killed Scottish football.
——————————————————————————–
an ecellent contribution as always
however the above (selective quote, and i apologise) while spot on points imo to a broader malaise in the worldwide game and i have to say that our local difficulties are only a symptom of this.
Take rangers out of the equation and most of the problems that beset us would still be there.
We cant loose sight of what they have done and the inadequate response to it, but the root causes lie deeper and i worry that in concentrating on rangers we loose sight of the growing financial inequality that will destroy the game for fans who simply wish to follow their team as part of a global community and not as the background to a corporate advertising greedfest.

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BayviewGoldPosted on11:25 pm - Feb 28, 2013


theglen2012 says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 23:16

Thank you for another reasonable answer, a few thousand more like you and the team from govan may not be all bad. Will still be a diddy team compared to the mighty Fife though. 🙂

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BrendaPosted on11:26 pm - Feb 28, 2013


So does that mean they were payments not ‘loans’ that didn’t have to be paid back? HMRC BDO come on let’s see if you have the gonads to hit this lot hard …….. What about the WUO? Or has CG made that go away too 🙂

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ratethisthenyabampotsPosted on11:26 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Ok glen2012. I get what you are saying. But. The HMRC case was, lets say perhaps, compromised in Scotland. Todays findings assumed RFC’s innocence in FTTT. HMRC are perplexed as to how that decision came about. I believe there has not been a fair hearing so far. If Utt rules in RFC favour the I for one must accept we have reached the end of the road.

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BunionPosted on11:32 pm - Feb 28, 2013


Brenda says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 23:26

LNS confirmed the side contract funds as “payments” hence SDM’s prompt rebuttal that they were loans.

He, and he wasn’t alone, recognised the damage this could cause to the tax case.

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The GlenPosted on11:33 pm - Feb 28, 2013


ratethisthenyabampots says:
Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 23:26

I thought today’s case turned on the rule regarding players initial registration – I may be wrong.

I agree that the UTT will be the ultimate decider on the matter, not the court of public opinion.

Whichever way they do rule, many people will be unhappy.

Who those who are unhappy turn to after that to get a decision that they disagree with, I don’t know.

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The GlenPosted on11:34 pm - Feb 28, 2013


“Who those who are unhappy turn to after that to get a decision that they agree with, I don’t know.”

Sorry.

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AuldheidPosted on11:37 pm - Feb 28, 2013


justshatered says:

Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 21:20

” I will want to know what new checks and balances will now be put in place before I part with any more of my money but I fear that I will not be one of the ‘mid-eighties’ attendees having lost all respect for football in this country.”

Come SB renewal time or leading up to it the above is the simple message that should be sent to all clubs

” In view of recent events that have undermined confidence in Scottish football as a sport, what are you doing to bring in a system of checks and balances between the SFA and the Leagues.

I am not renewing until I hear your proposals”

We owe it to ourselves to make sure we have a governance system fit for purpose. The current one has served no Scottish club, particularly Rangers.

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