The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
Happy to put my name to that, but it needs a broader audience.
Good effort TSFM.
If FIFA are managing things properly then, you should receive at least an acknowledgement of the email, and with further status updates to come ?
And if/when the SFA becomes aware of the TSFM communication to FIFA, the blazers have 2 options, IMO.
1) ‘In the interests of transparency, listening to the fans’, (!), the SFA announces some form of Q&A session at Hampden for clubs’ representatives, or communicates some ‘insufficient explanation’ via a pliant, non-questioning MSM.
The fans might not get answers, but the SFA can tell FIFA “they are dealing with it…”
or
2) The SFA will totally ignore this communication, with CO & SR staying in the bunker.
Which will it be… 🙄
This is certainly the way ahead, IMO this is the only hope we have of dealing with this shambles. The SFA have lost all credibility and should be assessed in their role in all of this..
All fans outside Govan cannot be wrong.
I for one back what you are saying to the hilt and thank you for putting this statement forward. This oldco/newco/SPL/SFA conjuring trick and their evasions of every kind have killed all integrity in our game.
Now how do we get the msm to tell the truth and shame the devil?
I’m surprised that there is any passion/interest left in fans of Scottish football. The rules have been manipulated and spun (and I’m being polite here) by the ruling bodies, a certain club whatever it’s incarnation, the officials on the park and the way it is reported in the msm, to such an extent that George Orwell would have thrown the plot out for being too far fetched.
I hope someone, who does not live in fear of these above institutions, at FIFA takes notice and takes honest and appropriate action. Again Scottish football fans have to draw the line in the sand, because we simply cannot trust the custodians of the game in Scotland to act like honest and upright people.
Good luck.
Great submission to FIFA. Ticks all the boxes in line with the aims of their dedicated website.
Would be worth issuing as a press release to all Scottish MSM, but would simply be a waste of time as their integrity was compromised almost 20 years ago.
Hope all the independent fans’ and supporters’ clubs pick up on it to try to increase it’s circulation.
Outstanding contribution Auldheid and TSFM.
Am I also with this approach and I applaud all involved ,whether it leads to anything or not at least you are trying to save the integrity of our game .
I am only left feeling bitter and disgusted at what has went on and those are not positive emotions,
in fact regardless of any justice in this sham ,I am not sure I ever can feel positive about Scottish football again
Test
Thanks for your efforts on this and suggestions on the way forward.
Sure beats sitting on your a**e and reminiscing about Bertie Auld’s best moments or Eric Caldow’s worst tackles.
If the SPL clubs and Board and the SFA don’t understand morality, fair play and decency cos they don’taappear on balance sheets or profit/loss satements thern we the fans will just have to educate them – like last year.
Sorry gorra rush ….will be back though
The Auldheid/TSFM Report should also be sent to all Scottish senior football clubs – including Associate Members!
Just got in from work and catching up with this drivel from Longmuir. I sense a summer of fan discontent much like last year. When will these morons learn? Right before ST renewal forms, too. You know what to do, folks.
Erm….10,000 contributors? Are we counting like Sevcovians now?
Lord Wobbly says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 19:51 (Edit)
Erm….10,000 contributors? Are we counting like Sevcovians now?
_____________________________________________________________
Bad edit m’Lud. Appropriately amended.
Better 😀
well done all, I would also ask why the SPL could not apply its own rules without calling in LNS and the huge conflict of interest which is CO.
Wow just wow,a new world record ,a whole page without a thumbs down
Good stuff lads.
Worried that the fans will again be banging their heads against a brick wall, but
“If you don’t ask you don’t get.!
Let’s keep our fingers crossed that it at least rattles a few cages.
Auldheid, TSFM,
Excellent work – I am happy to be counted as one of the 10,000.
Excellent initiative, Auldheid and TSFM. Sadly my sense of belief in the football authorities has taken such a hammering, and they weren’t that high in my estimation to begin with, that I’ll be amazed if FIFA will be prepared to act, but we can hope. One other avenue that might be worth going down, however, is to bring the ‘five way agreement’ to their notice, a contentious document if ever there was one. That all three football bodies should collude with a miscreant club, or two miscreant clubs, to facilitate said club(s)’ entry into the league is bad enough, but to keep it secret, not only from the public, but from every other member club, must fly in the face of sporting integrity in everyone’s book. Rangers have received more assistance than any previous club that has entered liquidation, which is bad enough, but by keeping the assistance handed to them secret, the authorities are denying the same assistance to any club that goes the same way, all be it more honestly. What is so blindingly obvious to all of us is that, if there was nothing to hide from the public, and the other clubs, in the agreement, then there is no reason to keep it secret.
I’ve just sent this off to my club. Some personal details have been ‘xxxd’ out!
Sirs,
I would be grateful if the following contents could be forwarded to the board of directors at the club.
As a long standing XXXXXXXXXX season ticket holder, I feel I should make comment to illustrate my feelings regarding recent suggested developments for the game in Scotland. I will attempt to be brief.
XXXXXXXXXX, and comprehending the difficult financial times the game and Scottish society is facing, the Scottish football authorities appear to me, nevertheless, to be almost totally financially driven in their attempts to change the structure of our national sport. As a fan, I feel that I have been cheated out of my cash during this millennium, given the guilt attributed to the exRangers club over their registration and secret payment policies. I also feel that this has been glossed over by the authorities, with their emphasis on the terms ‘oldco’ and ‘newco’.
If the recommendations of Lord Nimmo Smith’s report are to be rubber stamped by both the spl and the SFA (and it appears that these recommendations were close to what both bodies hoped for), there is a risk that fans will turn their united backs on Scottish football forever. There is, however, a way out. To many observers, blaming the exRangers ‘oldco’ for that club’s misdemeanours while emphasising that the ‘newco’ operates the same club, is an insult to fans’ collective intelligence. If it were underlined that the team playing out of Ibrox is a new entity, a new football club, then I believe fans might be prepared to see that as middle ground. Continuing to pander to the falsehood that Rangers FC still exists as the same body will lead to falling financial support from the fans.
Turning to reconstruction, if this is brought in for the start of season 2013-14, I can also see fans leaving football: we want to know what is happening with the league at the start of each season. Regarding structures for the leagues, this is possibly less contentious, but I’d hazard a guess that less fans will buy season tickets when they don’t know who the opponents will be. It is bad enough presently not knowing which days fixtures (this term is now used loosely) will be played, far less the kick off times: all altered for armchair/barstool ‘fans’.
However, noting David Longmuir mentioning Old Firm Colt teams once again, I can personally confirm that I will turn my back on Scottish football completely if this ever comes to pass. In the past, both Celtic and exRangers have made noises about leaving the Scottish structure, and although I doubt the English leagues yearn for their presence, for the life of me I can’t understand why Scottish authorities should lobby for a continued existence in the Scottish set up for their reserves. Mr Longmuir suggests the Old Firm colts would bring continuing media interest in football in the country: the main financial media input, live television, has the purpose of keeping fans out of the grounds and watching at home and in pubs, thus even if this argument was plausible, it is illogical to a paying customer such as me and my ilk.
Mr Longmuir seems to be part of an elite gang of four, along with Stewart Regan, Campbell Ogilvie (who is surely in an indefensible situation) and Neil Doncaster, which is entirely out of touch with the aspirations of Scottish football fans, and I would be unhappy if XXXXXX were seen to appear to endorse their positions.
Finally, I was very unhappy to read of Neil Doncaster’s large pay rise, as he has done nothing to warrant anything other than the sack.
Thanking you for your attention,
‘Borussia Beefburg’
(Please don’t correct any mistakes, it’s sent!)
To one and all, I have said Scottish Soccer Ball(54 and counting) was dead to me but something kept me looking on this blog for a ray of hope. I have seen the light, I might not do walking away after all.
borusssia
Brilliant, spot on.
Borussia,
Excellent letter, I hope you receive a well deserved reply and feel able to share it with us.
Woof!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/spaces-now-appearing-alongside-the-cracks-as-entertainment-value-takes-a-pasting-at-ibrox.20478236
An excellent letter without a doubt. Sadly though I believe if FIFA do decide to follow up on it, they will simply ask for and almost certainly accept the view of the SFA.
Well done Auldheid and TSFM. I actually feel like something positive is being done for the game. I’m not confident of FIFA caring enough to put things right, though, but lets see.
As for Longmuir, I pity him. I wonder if whoever put him up to this also asked him to get some tartan paint for Campbell’s office. Colts, shmolts. I take it “The Old Firm” (remember them?) endorsed this?
chipsandblog says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 20:31
well done all, I would also ask why the SPL could not apply its own rules without calling in LNS and the huge conflict of interest which is CO.
===============================
With regard the Nimmo Smith enquiry, I believe the clubs unanimously agreed to a system of independent panels.
The SPL carried out a preliminary investigation via a firm of Solicitors, who found a prima facie case against one club. That was referred to an independent panel to investigate further and adjudicate on.
They found that club guilty as charged.
I believe that was all according to the system the clubs unanimously agreed to.
Now whether that system was corrupted by certain witnesses, or perhaps direct or indirect interference on behalf of the football authorities is another issue. However it has been clear for quite some time, reinforced today, that they do not envisage a future without that one club. In one form or another.
Put simply, in my view, they brought in a system for the right reasons. However in operation they didn’t like where it was going so they sought to subvert it. It wouldn’t surprise me if the system itself is not sacrificed, as part of the “moving on” process.
Kevin Anderson says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 21:05
To one and all, I have said Scottish Soccer Ball(54 and counting) was dead to me but something kept me looking on this blog for a ray of hope. I have seen the light, I might not do walking away after al
__________________________________________________________________
I am with Kevin up to the part ray of hope! Good luck with this TSFM and Auldheid!
do you have a time scale to chase this? did they come back with any response as to time for someone to consider the note?
No problem with what you are doing but remember this is the Dickensian world of FIFA! don’t leave it waiting in their mailbox for too long.
Now its possibly unfortunate on Mr Longmuir that I chose to read his latest effort, courtesy of Jim Spence, after one of the finest halves of football I’ve ever seen. (Spare me the morality of the CL lecture, I just happen to enjoy watching 22 players able to pick a pass, with both feet). It is possibly even more unfair on him that I am responding to it after watching one of the most intriguing 2nd halves ever either.
But here goes.
This is a man employed and paid handsomely to represent 30 teams at present. He appears to believe the top 12 of those don’t matter, that they’ll be picked off by the SPL vulture by hook or by crook in any case, an interestingly appropriate metaphor for what is expected to happen in the next couple of months.
So that leaves 18 teams.
In support of the 18 teams Bill follows recent form and decides that it is not fair to ‘support’ only one of these teams. No, in facing up to 17-1 odds his solution is, like a protzoan lab experiment to divide the one to make two. Then we’ll all benefit. Eh? WTF as the kids say.
Of course true to Scottish league regulations, the glaswegian chapter, as read by Charlie Mulgrew and Alex Smith, you can’t go allowing a colt gers team unless you allow a colt celtic team too – thats a colt celtic team into a league in which they don’t even currently play by the way. Who exactly does Longmuir think will be playing, never mind bench warming for these frankenstein creations? And this will benefit us all will it, Bill? Aye right.
The only compliment I can pay this complete waste of space is to say that it is the closest official document I have seen to state the clearly held private, and not so private, viewpoint that there are only two teams that exist. The rest of us are just there to make up the numbers.
Enjoy your league of two Bill.
As for longmuirs idea of putting Celtic and sevco colts teams into the SFL wasn’t it oldco rangers that kiboshed the SPL reserve league because they couldn’t afford to field a team, what makes him think there would be any difference now.
All credit to you Auldheid more power to your keyboard.
Extracted from the linked FIFA site in blog above.
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“…FIFA is convinced that every individual can contribute to promoting transparency and integrity through vigilance and a sense of responsibility. Please help us protect our organisation against harmful behaviour.”
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When they put it like that, then ‘absolutely’, TSFM seems to have utilised the correct channel to register complaints about our own national association.
Whilst I am hopeful, when I think of FIFA unfortunately I always get the mental image of Sepp Blatter !
However, fingers crossed that FIFA at least ask some awkward questions at Hampden.
Excellent effort Auldheid./ TSFM
Could the fact, that these same incompetents (SFA) are in the process of trying to reconstruct the leagues to suit one new club leapfrog their way to the top league, be included in this communications to FIFA/UEFA?
Whats the chances of FIFA capitulating on its own rules.
am i the only one who thinks that a visit from sepp blatter recently resulted in a statement from green wanting an end to bigotry,does no one else see the implications
Don’t want to get us off track from Auldheid’s great work but can Smugas tell us who “Bill” is exactly and why he believes Longmuir will have Celtic’s support for the colts idea ? I suggest Longmuir’s peddling a TRFC angle and like Green is name dropping Celtic’s name for PR. Celtic’s youths already play in the Nextgen series which I believe the club thinks is more beneficial in terms of development.
As for Stirling based, ex-Don manager Smith I think his nonsense has already been well covered on the site.
Lets get behind Auldheid/TSFM efforts. Lets unite behind common issues. Keep smaller rivalries for another time.
What happens if following promotion this year to the 3rd division the new rangers are subsequently relegated back to the fourth will they play the new new rangers. Now that would be a world record for the most (validly/invalidly) registered players from the one club playing in a competitive match. It’s beginning to sound like one of those old Friday night horror movies, the zombies meet the sons of zombies.
Hey Guys ….let’s not get carried away.
The SPL clubs individually , the SPL Board and the SFA have not said a dickie bird about accfepting or rejecting or appealing LNS’ findings . Until they do .Uefa/FIFA can write it off as ” A little local difficulty outwith our jurisdictionj” ”
Once the powers that be make their views on the LNS decision public , we can go after them with every hope of success..
As the ole plooman said “…there’s many a good furrow been spoilt by skelpin’ too early”
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse display at Celtic Park was admirable. It was professionally produced had high artistic and cultural value, as well as being good banter.
The images of that display featured prominently on many a newspaper, and on several media outlets on the Internet. It got people talking.
What are the chances of fan groups from other clubs producing a similar set of displays that highlight to a wider audience our plight?
Could a similar artistic fan display be produced to alert the wider world to this appeal to FIFA. If the media start talking about this submission – then FIFA will most likely be asked to comment on it,
Or put another way – can we find a way to highlight what is more likely than not, to be the first submission to FIFA via their Fair Play report system: https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
The FIFA engagement model will be seen to be a disaster if well publicized campaign (such as ours) is seen to have been submitted and then kicked into the long grass. I guess at this stage we are at the if a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around to hear it – did it make a sound. A wider audience needs to be made aware that this submission has been made.
Phil, Stewart – if you are looking in can you consider using your out-lets to discuss the TFSM submission with a wider audience?
Alex T – the next time you are talking to the FIFA press office, could you ask if they are aware of the submission and how was this received by FIFA?
olemungobhoy
Sorry to disagree but if your waiting for any appeal you will be as successful as Joe Brands dog ( a St Bernard with the build of a Lurcher ) waiting at the kitchen table to be thrown some scraps ,It ain’t gonna happen .
As far as the peepil are concerned it’s job almost done ,only scam left is to get sevco through the leagues ASAP ( lets face it they can’t rely on Sally to do the biz ) and all will be well in the peepil’s vision of Scottish fluteball again
groutdoc says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 23:38
What happens if following promotion this year to the 3rd division the new rangers are subsequently relegated back to the fourth will they play the new new rangers.
———————————–
A thought just occurred to me – if the ‘colts’ idea was to be implemented, my understanding is that the colt team would be barred from promotion if the grade A Rangers / Celtic were in the division above. So far so straightforward, but would it also work the other way? By which I mean, if the colts version was in the second tier of Scottish football, would the grade A team then be immune from any risk of being relegated? (Although there is less chance of that than of throwing a snowball and hitting the moon, it could turn it from a near impossibility into a certain impossibility.) Or am I just being paranoid?
As far as Celtic or rangers colts (there is no old firm) whats wrong with a draft system where any spl clubs who may want to loan out young players put them into a draft where smaller clubs who are struggling to cover the cost of a squad may be entitled to one or 2 players from the spl draft part of any tv deal money could be paid to the clubs loaning out the players and also it helps with the young players development ,there would obviously be a scaled payment depending on which division theyre playing in.while we’re trying to change scottish football and I can see some of us are tired and are seriously considering walking away.could we not have a Monday morning panel which deals in the bookings sending off of players/ managers and indeed any of the weekends contentious decisions dealt with there and then if there is an appeal that could be heard 24 hrs later,also any team playing in Europe could if they so wish postpone a match before a European tie this point doesn’t have to be mandatory but optional.lets have a set of rules which can only benefit scottish football.there must be many more where are you auldheid.where’s ma blazer.
I hope this submission has a positive response from FIFA…however we must remember that the SFA are one of the 8 members of the FIFA council…so I’m guessing one of 3 things will happen depending on who is responsible at FIFA for the whistleblowing correspondance (god forbid its someone linked to the SFA)…
1. They will ask the SFA what is going on…
2. They will investigate what is going on…
3. They will ignore what is going on…
Question…does the FIFA whistleblowing site confirm they will provide a response to what they intend to do…even if it is…thanks but no thanks…
Might be worth while confirming to FIFA that the TSFM are happen to go public with this…
FIFA might also be curious as to why no other Domestic club has reported this? or have they through the whistleblower?
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 06:53
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It happens in Spain with Barcalona and Real Madrid…they have B teams in lower leagues…I guess there would need to be an understanding or rule implemented that stated if either were relegated then the B team would also need to be relegated..
The ‘Colts’ idea should be shown the stable door before it’s further discussed by any football authorities. Simply they would be taking up SFL spaces that could be applied/ earned entry for by more deserving teams in waiting who have already been pushed aside by the Newco TRFC.
OT, but I wanted to give you the update on cup final tickets. The SFL seem to be trying to sort the problems they have caused, but a bit of common sense in the first place was needed. 😉
http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=21566
Cup Final Tickets – West Stand Update
MARCH 12, 2013 BY ADMIN
As intimated in our Club Statement yesterday following discussions between The Scottish Football League (SFL), St Mirren Football Club and Heart of Midlothian Football Club, the SFL have now reached agreement with Hampden Park Limited and Strathclyde Police to allow a further allocation of around 600 West Stand (£20 & £10) tickets for St Mirren supporters in Section B5.
To accommodate family groups who have still to purchase tickets for the Final, St Mirren Football Club will only be selling these initially to those who have children within the party.
Since the weekend however, we have sold a number of £30 debenture seats in the South Stand who will take priority if they wish to swap for West Stand Family Section (providing children within the party).
Anyone who has purchased a South Stand debenture seat for £30 but has children within the group and wishes to swap their allocation for the B5 family section should contact the St Mirren Ticket office in person, by phone: (0141) 840-6130 or email: tickets@saintmirren.net prior to 5:00pm tomorrow (Wednesday 13th March).
Thereafter all remaining tickets will go on general sale from the St Mirren Ticket Office on Thursday 14th March at 10:00am.
smartie1947 says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 18:33
Great submission to FIFA. Ticks all the boxes in line with the aims of their dedicated website.
Would be worth issuing as a press release to all Scottish MSM, but would simply be a waste of time as their integrity was compromised almost 20 years ago.
Hope all the independent fans’ and supporters’ clubs pick up on it to try to increase it’s circulation.
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It is essential that press releases go to the MSM – if we don’t send it they have the excuse they didn’t know. I would also suggest that it be sent separately to 3 desks at each media outlet viz 1) Sport, 2) News, 3) Business. This means that the distribution within each organisation is maximised and raises the ‘fear’ factor that an opposition media outlet might indeed use it.
By not just sending it to one ‘Desk’ it might even break the stranglehold that Sport have had on this story. Time to get beyond the brain-dead pundits whose agenda is clear to all but those of the same ilk.
I think it’s an excellent piece of drafting and deserves maximum publicity and discussion. Do we actually have a list of other websites it could be sent to as well so that discussion and support can be built-up?
Right behind Auldheids method, it’s indicative of the situation our game is in that the grassroots support has to mobilise to endeavour to get anything effective done about the rampant self interest governing the game. It’s worth saving in my opinion even if it takes years. If we persevere we will eventually turn the tide. Perhaps the revolution having started needs to adapt its strategy against entrenched opposition. The powers that be have made it plain they ain’t for budging, this should make us even more determined to stay the course. The more they wriggle around in their attempts to preserve their own status the more damage they do, as long as we remain constant in keeping our voices heard, eventually time or circumstances will give us our chance.
Ecobhoy,I totally agree.The media has to be saturated,on a nationwide basis.Not just Scotland.It would also be worth considering a distribution across Europe.Spain, Germany,France and Italy,and the rest.
it just needs one good journalist to pick up the story and run.
In reading what Longmuir is proposing on the ‘colts’ proposal and the OF potentially leaving scottish football and so the need for their ‘legacy’ is more conjectural scaremongering on his behalf. If ever there is an inappropriate time for his focus to be away from his current 30 team SFL memebership and his remit to represent them NOW and not with futuristic fantasies of how scottish football would not survive without a lesser Celtic ot TRFC.
Longmuir is now drifting in his direction as the SFL CEO and I beleive his current and recent past performances is pandering if not direct influnce from Doncaster and Regan. Perhaps the SFL clubs may begin to question theri confidence in him?
wallacewell says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 08:17
reminds me off digging into a tricky buckie when I was a bairn …lets keep poking them with our pointy wee needles….braw
paulmac2 says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 08:06
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TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 06:53
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It happens in Spain with Barcalona and Real Madrid…they have B teams in lower leagues…I guess there would need to be an understanding or rule implemented that stated if either were relegated then the B team would also need to be relegated..
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This is from wiki so saves me typing it out
Reserve teams in Spain play in the same football pyramid as their senior team rather than a separate league. However, reserve teams cannot play in the same division as their senior team. Therefore, the team is ineligible for promotion to the division in which the main side plays. Also, if the main team is relegated to the division in which its reserve side played in the prior season (which happened in 2011–12 with Villareal), the reserve team is automatically relegated to the division below the main team. Reserve teams are also no longer permitted to enter the Copa del Rey.
Longmuir’s sudden reintroduction of the previously scorned colts proposal makes no sense.
It is like he is drawing the attention of the clubs, the media and us away from something else. (And the “Rangers and Celtic are leaving us” hints and “we need a legacy” is spurious and false logic).
I’d say that what he and the other 5 way signatories are up to while people are blind-sighted by his colts proposal is what we should be fearful of.
His paper and the timing of it confirms to all who were not sure that Longmuir is up there with Ogivie, Regan, and Doncaster when we have a bonfire of the administrators.
If we need two new teams to create the more sensible of the two proposed new league structures there are several licence holders queuing up to join.
Indeed a cursory glance at the top 4 teams in the SPL would confirm that 50% of them were on the outside 20 years ago.
And they would have been kept on the outside if Longmuir’s plan for inclusion of the green and the blue colts had been applied then.
Teams who want into the senior ranks have already been overlooked to allow Rangers into SFL 3.
To say that there will be two more places created in those senior ranks (absolute folly anyway) but that they would be taken by Celtic and Rangers’ “colts” simply beggars belief. Have either club been asked if they want this anyway.
A more obvious case of doing everything to get Rangers a promotion could not be envisaged. The original plan (12 12 18) is not acceptable to them, because of the lack of promotion. So we will change it again and make it 12 12 10 10, then they can get that promotion. With the sop that the lower level clubs will have games against their youth teams, and possibly a decent turnout.
This is so clearly for the benefit of one club it is astounding.
Longmuir is supposed to represent all the SFL clubs. I wonder which of them brought the proposal to incorporate Colt teams into their system. He’s writing to all 30 clubs, according to press reports.
Now, should this not have been a scheme which some of the thirty clubs brought to Longmuir’s attention, rather than the other way around? He also suggests, via reports, that Celtic and the new Rangers club retain the notion to move away from the Scottish set up :
“Celtic and Rangers are our only clubs with global reach and they have said they will explore all cross-border opportunities.
“Scottish football should be thinking longer term and putting in place now a strategy which potentially future-proofs our game to the loss of these global brands.”
Often the cases of second string teams playing in within the lower leagues in Germany and Spain are used to support the argument for inclusion of colt teams from Glasgow: but that is not comparing like for like. Longmuir indicates that this should happen as a safety guard for our game, in the eventuality of ‘these global brands’ departing to other shores.
Is there anywhere else in the world where a club has two sides playing in different national league systems? Is this something UEFA would allow?
All of this without going into the negative points of having these colt sides as permanent fixtures within the senior game in Scotland.
Longmuir’s other contribution over the past week, let us remember, has been to preside over the League Cup Final ticket fiasco, which he is now trying to salvage.
olemungobhoy says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 00:08
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Hey Guys ….let’s not get carried away.
The SPL clubs individually , the SPL Board and the SFA have not said a dickie bird about accfepting or rejecting or appealing LNS’ findings . Until they do .Uefa/FIFA can write it off as ” A little local difficulty outwith our jurisdictionj” ”
Once the powers that be make their views on the LNS decision public , we can go after them with every hope of success..
As the ole plooman said “…there’s many a good furrow been spoilt by skelpin’ too early”
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Can’t agree Mungo. I don’t expect any club/group to do anything other than accept the LNS ruling. Would love to be proved wrong. On that premise I think we should not linger and should press ahead with raising the issue with the widest audience. I liked longtimelurker’s idea at 06.29 too.
Interesting quotes attributed to Turnbull Hutton this morning about Longmuir’s motives for the colts idea incidentally. Tom English’s comment yesterday that Longmuir appears to be auditining for a job at Ibrox is intriguing too.
BTW don’t recall too many “ole ploomen” knocking around Parson Street !
It was good to hear the great Turnbull Hutton on radio Scotland this morning.
He mentioned that he was actually talking to Longmuir last night but then proceeded to pour scorn on the idea of Colts teams. He also mocked the timing of releasing these proposals and questioned the motives of all those involved in concocting this nonsense.
In my opinion, as someone else has mentioned, it’s all another piece of deflection. Probably Doncaster, Regan and Longmuir don’t want to be seen losing face if the 12-12-18 proposals are knocked back and they’re just floating this nonsense to say this is what could happen.
All it does for me is confirm that the governing bodies aren ‘t fit for purpose.
Personally, I’m all in favour of the colts proposal. I’d go further and allow them to play in the same division as the senior team.
It would be hilarious to watch ex-rangers jnr beat ex-rangers to the (enlarged) second division title next season. Once that has been achieved I’d be 100% in favour of keeping the two teams in separate divisions thereafter.
thereek says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 23:28
Reek,
I take nothing away from Auldheid’s admirable efforts and will do what I can to support it.
Similarly I’ve gone off on one below before reading Tom English’s (other papers are available) article today which may answer some of my points.
To be clear I was highlighting Bill Longmuir’s letter to all 30 SFL clubs to consider the Colts idea. My small rivalry was nothing of the sort. Trust me I do small petty rivalries with spades on when I need to. The smaller and more petty the better.
I am intrigued as to what basis Mr Longmuir was writing. Why he was writing it now and why the letter reads to me to support the proposition that not only should the global brands float off to football never never land (I’ll help them pack) but that their colt spawn should also “progress through the leagues unhindered” where their “legacy” would be “interesting” and “attractive to all”, as well as apparently make it “competitive,” more competitive than a situation where “more teams are evenly matched.”
I will absolve Celtic slightly since no quotes are attributed. The same applies to Rangers to be fair. But if you will permit me to be petty and small minded for just a moment is it not a tad concerning that one of the key officials of our game views a club (don’t start me) backed by a holding company with no financial history that has just posted a 7m interim loss to have the “global outreach,” in fact no, the stated ability to “support and FULLY FUND a colt team.”
Why would this nonsense be to the benefit of all exactly?
iamacant says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 08:58
Reserve teams in Spain play in the same football pyramid as their senior team rather than a separate league. However, reserve teams cannot play in the same division as their senior team. Therefore, the team is ineligible for promotion to the division in which the main side plays. Also, if the main team is relegated to the division in which its reserve side played in the prior season (which happened in 2011–12 with Villareal), the reserve team is automatically relegated to the division below the main team. Reserve teams are also no longer permitted to enter the Copa del Rey.
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Although the Scottish football authorities’ way of drafting regulations doesn’t fill me with confidence. They might just omit to say what would happen in case of a ‘big team’ being in a relegation place, and then have to make up some interpretations on the spot if it happened
smugas says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 10:09
maybe they,ve been promised a cheaper deal on Administation when it comes round again …Buy one get one free…so they need a Colt team ….hahahahahha braw
rantinrobin says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 08:22
Ecobhoy,I totally agree.The media has to be saturated,on a nationwide basis.Not just Scotland.It would also be worth considering a distribution across Europe.Spain, Germany,France and Italy,and the rest.
it just needs one good journalist to pick up the story and run.
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Fully agree with the Europe-wide press release idea. It may be more likely that a “foreign” sports desk will pick up the story – Gazzetta della Sport, for example, who may be keen to point out corruption elsewhere than in the Italian leagues for a change 🙂 – while the Scottish press are still deploying their bargepole.
I think that such a press release would need to be constructed in slightly plainer language – remember, many outlets will simply print a press release as is – and if it looks too complex then it’ll just get spiked.
Something like (purely as an initial suggestion):
“Scottish football fans are appealing directly to FIFA over the outcome of an enquiry into the incorrect registration of players by Rangers FC over a period of a decade. Although Rangers were found guilty of not registering players correctly, the independent commission decided that they were still eligible to play. This meant that no sporting sanctions were applied as an outcome of the investigation.
Fans’ forum “The Scottish Football Monitor”, which has over 10,000 readers, have sent a report through FIFA’s new whistleblower website asking the world governing body to look into the judgement. In the meantime, fans are threatening to walk away from Scottish football because they feel that that the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football Association are either unable or unwilling to apply their own rules to Rangers FC.”
Auldheid’s piece could then be appended.
It may also be a useful thing to translate into the appropriate language before sending. Perhaps we have contributors that can do so? I can do a Hungarian one, and maybe Hirsute or JC could do a Latin one to send to the Vatican City fitba papers. 🙂
the colts idea should go ahead and should not be restricted to Celtic or Rangers. It will increase the quality and gates at lower leagues. The problem could be that Rangers colts would play in a higher league than rangers.
there’s only 3 glasgow rangers.
But not petty and ill informed enough not to admit that for some bizarre reason I thought Longmuir’s first name was Bill?
Apologies
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 10:36
A tighter press release seems a good idea. Does the non-disclosure of payments have any wider aspect to it, e.g. questions of player eligibility for European matches? If there is any context that that could be offered about there having been potential impact on clubs from other countries , that might help the story to get some traction too.
re what to do with funds.How much does it cost to take out a half page add in a national newspaper
Count me in.
Longmanure is trying to offer the lower leagues a replacement cow to milk if they agree to the original(stop it ) getting a world record promotion, nothing else. Given that TRFC have no accounts to mention, it would be a long time before TRFC can consider applying to another league shirley.
Folks, they’re trying again to drag Celtic into it. They’re flying kites. The greater the desperation, the bigger and less airworthy the kite becomes. Everybody knows the “colt “ thing is a lead weight.
Sure Celtic have said given the opportunity they’ll move from Scottish football. There are 40 other senior professional clubs (QP being amateur) in Scotland who would jump at the chance of the money available in English football.
Also, it’s not very pleasant having the youngsters of your team being referred to as “spawn”. We’re being led astray. Time to concentrate on taking Auldheid’s initiative across the planet.
Knowing how fastidious the SFA are with the rule book surely letters have now gone to clubs about a nomination?
An Office-Bearer who is eligible and who seeks election or re-election, as the case may
be, as President or First Vice-President or (subject to Article 58) Second Vice-President, as
the case may be, at the Annual General Meeting succeeding which a new Council will
be formed shall not later than 28th February in the year of such Annual General Meeting
lodge with the Secretary written notice of his desire to seek such election or continue in
office, as appropriate. The Secretary shall within 7 days thereafter inform full members
and the Council of which such Office-Bearer is seeking such election or re-election, as
aforesaid.
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 10:36
“And maybe Hirsute or JC could do a Latin one to send to the Vatican City fitba papers. 🙂 🙂
I think you may have taken it too far there :).
There’s a couple of feelers out though.(but not the Vatican) and folk can pursue this in their own way.
angus 1983
Excellent idea – it is our last best opportunity to put our reasoned argument to a European wide audience. It will not happen on it’s own. Our only hope is that there is someone on here with the energy, know-how and determination to see truth and integrity win out.
Regarding the Clots (sic) suggestion… what would happen in the “unthinkable” scenario where the A team was to find itself relegated to the lowest tier (ie. so there’s nowhere for the B team to be relegated to)?
Hopefully this parrot is dead and stays that way.
Auldheid says:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 11:36
I think you may have taken it too far there .
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Just thought they might be a bit short of news over in the Vatican at the moment … 😉
Longmuir, “…the legacy legacy of a colt team would allow SCOTTISH FOOTBALL to prosper from the GLOBAL success of the parent club or team, but also provide a level of domestic football which would be competitive, interesting, and attractive to fans, sponsors and media alike…”
Now, If i were a current SFL chairperson I would see that part of Longmuir’s statement as somewhat condescending; simply he’s gone way above his remit here in his suggestion. Also, lets say a non senior league team ‘cheated’ out of a place in the SFL when a certain newco was formed and dropped in to the vacant space, reads and takes this ‘colts’ concept on board. it’s apparent that the OF ‘colts’ would monopolize 2 senior league places so where would there be space for ‘growth in the game’ at that sub level below the senior structure?
All this ‘good for the future of the Scottish game’ based on monopolization from the OF in lower senior leagues and not encouraging the Scottish regional leagues to dream or prosper beyond their respective regional leagues, should see Longmuir chastised.
Breaking news
The clubs have secretly got together and after brief meeting voted for the immediate resignations of Regan, Ogilvie, Doncaster, and Longmuir.
Almost unanimous for, not votes against and you can guess the three abstentions.
That’s all it would take.