The following post comes about as a result of the research and work put in by Auldheid.
He has drafted the submission to FIFA detailed below after closely looking at their rules, and taking on board the points contained in the Glasnost “Golden Rule” blog. TSFM has attached the blog’s name to the report since the overwhelming – but not unanimous – view of our readership is that the SFA and the SPL have again gotten themselves into an almighty and embarrassingly amateur fankle over this issue.
We believe that tens of thousands of football fans will be lost to the game if the outcome of the LNS enquiry is not perceived to be commensurate with the scope and extent of the rule breaking that LNS found had taken place. In view of this, we believe that we have to do what we can to explore all possibilities for justice for those who love the game so much and yet are utterly disillusioned by recent events.
LNS is not being questioned here. He has found that RFC were guilty as charged by the SPL.
What is being questioned is the SFA’s crucial – and seemingly conflicted – role in the LNS enquiry, as is the effectiveness of LNS’s recommended sanction as either a deterrent or an upholder of sporting integrity.
It came to our notice last week that FIFA have created a web site at
https://www.bkms-system.net/bkwebanon/report/clientInfo?cin=6fifa61&language=eng
that tells us that FIFA have implemented a regulatory framework which is intended to ensure that all statutory rules, rules of conduct and internal guidelines of FIFA are respected and complied with.
In support of that regulatory framework FIFA have set up the above site as a reporting mechanism by means of which inappropriate behaviour and infringements of the pertinent regulations may be reported.
FIFA say that their jurisdiction encompasses misconduct that (1) relates to match manipulation; (2) occurs in or affects more than one confederation, so that it cannot adequately be addressed by a single confederation; or (3) would ordinarily be addressed by a confederation or association, but, under the particular facts at issue, has not been or is unlikely to be dealt with appropriately at that level.
Discussions arising from the previous blog on TSFM, “Gilt Edged Justice”, which was published after Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) ruled on the registration of Rangers players who had contractual side letters that were not disclosed to the SFA as part of their registration, suggest that there may be possible unfortunate consequences for football arising from the evidence presented by the SFA to the LNS enquiry that informed its findings on registration and consequent eligibility. There is also a question of the propriety of the SFA providing evidence on an issue which could have had a negative impact on them had it been found that they had failed to carrying out their registration duties with due rigour over a period of ten years when the existence of EBTs was known to officials within the SFA.
On the basis that the LNS findings require that registration rules be clarified by FIFA and rewritten globally if necessary to remove any ambiguity and under clause 3 above, this appears to be an issue that the FIFA should examine and that the SFA cannot address.
The following report has therefore been submitted by TSFM on behalf of its readers to FIFA drawing on the content and debate following the “Gilt Edged Justice” blog in respect of the possible footballing consequences of the LNS enquiry.
The hope is that by speaking for so many supporters, FIFA will give the TSFM submission some weight, but individuals are free of course to make their own points in their own way. We await acknowledgement of the submission.
The report Submitted to FIFA is as follows;
This report was prepared on behalf of the 10,000-strong readership of The Scottish Football Monitor at http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/
It is our belief that FIFA general rules of conduct were breached by the SFA and their employees in both creating and then advising The Lord Nimmo Smith (LNS) enquiry into the non disclosure of full payment information to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) by Rangers F.C during a period of player registration over 10 years from 2000.We believe that although the issue has been addressed by the SFA the particular facts at issue suggest that it has not been dealt with appropriately and we therefore ask FIFA to investigate. The facts at issue are that the process and advice given failed to uphold sporting integrity, and that a conflict of interest was at play.
We believe the advice provided and the enquiry set up, where SFA both advised and is the appellant body, breaches not only the integrity the registration rules were intended to uphold, but also totally undermines the integrity of the SFA in breach of General Conduct rules 1, 2 and 4. (See below.)
1. Firstly we believe that the advice supplied to LNS that an incorrectly registered player was eligible to play as long as the registration was accepted by the SFA however unwittingly, undermines the intent of the SPL/SFA rules on player registration and so undermines the integrity of football in three ways.
• It incentivises clubs to apply for a player to be registered even if they know that the conditions of registration are not satisfied, in the hope that the application will somehow ‘slip through the net’ and be granted anyway (in which case it will be valid until revoked).
• A club which discovers that it has made an error in its application is incentivized to say nothing and to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ – because it would be in a better position by not confessing its mistake.
• And most importantly, it incentivises fraud. By deliberately concealing relevant information, a club can ensure that a player who does not satisfy the registration conditions is treated as being eligible – and therefore allowed to play – for as long as a period as possible (potentially his entire spell with the club). Then, if the club is no longer around when the deception is finally discovered, imposing meaningful sanctions may be impossible.
2. Secondly we believe the process followed was inappropriate due to a Conflict of Interest. Had the LNS enquiry not ruled on the basis of advice supplied by The SFA, they and those persons advising the LNS enquiry, could have been subjected to censure and the SFA to potential compensation claims had LNS found that the players were indeed ineligible to play and results then been annulled as was SFA practice when an ineligible player played.
3. Finally we contend that a law should not be applied according to its literal meaning if to do so would lead to an absurdity or a manifest injustice or in this case loss of football integrity.
See http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/gilt-edged-justice/4. We therefore ask FIFA to investigate both the process used and advice given to Lord Nimmo Smith to satisfy themselves that FIFA’s intentions with regard to upholding the integrity of football under FIFA rules have not been seriously damaged by the LNS findings and also to reassure Scottish football supporters that the integrity of our game has not been sacrificed by the very authority in whose care it has been placed to promote the short term cause of commercialism to the games long term detriment.
General Rules of Conduct (These are taken from the FIFA web site itself and can be found as part of completing the submission process)
1. Persons bound by this Code are expected to be aware of the importance of their duties and concomitant obligations and responsibilities.
2. Persons bound by this Code are obliged to respect all applicable laws and regulations as well as FIFA’s regulatory framework to the extent applicable to them.
3. N/A
4. Persons bound by this Code may not abuse their position in any way, especially to take advantage of their position for private aims or gains.
dentarthurdent42 says:
Thursday
I have explained several times my “board”‘s actions last summer…Killie have a one man board and his action’s are a perfect example of the director/fan dichotomy..Mr Johnston went against the majority of his shareholders and season ticket holders but could because he has no opposition and simply followed the money..
He is the most unpopular chairman in the country and the most untouchable….
Palacio67 says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 15:49
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IMO Craig levein will not be managing any team fast, he is still being paid a large salary from the SFA, this will stop if he joins another club or the day his contract with the SFA finishes.
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Craig Levein has not received a penny from the SFA since he walked. The SFA offered to continue paying him 35k per month, till he found another job. CL rightly told them to honour the contract that existed between them or face a legal battle…this has now gone legal, another mess that could have been avoided, but hey we all know what myopia descends on Hampden when contracts are discussed.
easyJambo says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 18:07
For those of you who have questioned my earlier comment re the Tom English article I’d add the following reasoning.
——
Your reasoning will sound entirely reasonable to most Scottish fitba fans, easyJambo.
I would humbly suggest that CFC fans should not take offence (assuming that’s where the TDs and whatabouteries are coming from), because this is how things are generally being perceived from outside Glasgow.
(IOW, if Celtic – or any other club for that matter – want to distance themselves from recent media commentary, is keeping quiet really the best course of action?)
Turnbull Hutton. My admiration for him, and as a consequence Raith Rovers, grows every day. Thank dog someone in Scottish foopball has a set. The boy’s a star.
This pantomime gets more bizarre by the day.
With Longmuir’s ‘floating’ of an idea (whose actual idea is open to debate) raises some fundamental questions.
First of all how would a club currently losing £1M a month finance such a venture? Sure it could be funded by an increase in the value of season tickets on promotion to a higher league but it would involve the bringing in of new players and an increase in the wage bill. For me there is no gain for ‘The Rangers’ in this proposal.
Secondly as Celtic’s development team currently play quite a lot of games against English opposition during the season would there be a real benefit to them from fielding a reserve team in the Scottish fourth tier? No disrespect to the teams in the third division but if Celtic are attempting to play a higher standard of opposition then surely they would rather be playing against potential EPL players of the future.
This brings me on to the comment above. Whose actual idea was this? Was it Longmuir trying to continue some form of TV revenue for the SFL?
It was convenient for him to mention that this proposal was included in the McLeish report however this takes us back ten years where people start to cherry pick the bits that they want and ignore the rest. If you wish to adopt the McLeish report then adopt it all.
One of the complaints always levelled against our league system is that there is no room for teams to come up to the SFL and that it was effectively a ‘closed shop’. This was epitomised last summer when any number of clubs were overlooked to accommodate ‘The Rangers’ into division three. This was supposed to be solved as part of the re-construction process so how was this proposal assisting in that respect where essentially two reserve teams are catapulted into division three over the heads of well run clubs. How will these clubs ever get into the SFL is beyond me.
My personal belief is that Longmuir is now the acceptable face of football administration considering that Ogilvie, Regan, and Doncaster (the three stooges) have been rumbled. If that is the case then he has blotted his copy book with this plan.
These clowns are actually turning into the four horse men of the apocalypse before our very eyes!
It could be that this is indeed a diversion tactic while other grand plans are put into place.
I really wonder how bad the stench of corruption must get before something is done.
MFC official response on Steelmen site to upset over reconstruction and money split etc etc
Motherwell FC Official wrote…..
Quote
Keith, the club is never too busy to communicate with supporters, there are different times and different forums for this, however, let’s take the three issues you’ve highlighted.
Reconstruction – the current state of affairs is that we have met with the members of the ‘Well Society.The general debate and outcomes from that day were largely covered in a members update and emailed to ‘Well Society members. It is also fair to say that the discussions from that day were also covered in this forum.We said at that meeting that, although we did not like all of the reconstruction proposal, there was more to like than not and we felt that it was a better solution for our club moving forward over the next few years.
Some at the meeting had a different perspective however we communicated the issues and gave the group all the information we had at that point. We took a vote at the end of that meeting to see if the mood had changed and, by in large, it had.On the 15th April 2013 (SPL reconstruction voting day) there will be two options for us to vote on for our club. These are either to try a new set up as proposed or to remain the same.There are no current options for 14 or 16, these are not on the table and are unlikely to be on the table for the foreseeable future.Irrespective of what we want as a club, we can only vote on what the majority have put forward.
We have spoken to ‘Well Society members, heard their positions and comments but we want and understand the need to address the entire support on this matter so, as already highlighted after the ‘Well Society meeting, there will be a supporter meeting organised before we are required to vote on this change. You or anyone else can ask any questions you like at this meeting and we won’t dodge the answer; to be fair to the board, I don’t think we ever do but others may think differently. We will post soon to advise when the meeting is planned.
Your second point – Colt Teams – came out of left field on Monday, has been off the agenda for months and months and we see no reason for that to change.
Your last point – Prize Money – this was a proposal that was put to clubs in October. At the time, all eleven clubs decided to support this one season only solution.This was agreed mostly as a starting point to change; it felt like the right thing to do at the time, all clubs would benefit from a small additional prize fund and, importantly, we’d revisit the full distribution, voting etc in due course. It is interesting that this has come up now given it was voted on, agreed and publicised throughout the press at the time.Happy to be more specific at the meeting on any point you or anyone elsewishes
to bring up.
The ‘Well Society is your way of taking control of these choices, overtime any board of any organisation has to make tough choices. Ideally supporters can make these choices in due course once the Society has a controlling shareholding.It is down to the will and the want of Motherwell supporters when this happens, the board are not stopping this from happening in any way but until it does, we are tasked with doing what we feel is best for the long term future of the club.
arabest1 says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 20:06
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Palacio67 says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 15:49
Thanks for correcting me arabest. Does Levein taking up another managerial post hinder his legal fight with the SFA?
Off Topic, hat off again to Turnball Hutton, what one would give for him to head the SFA, he would sort out the whole sordid mess.
dentarthurdent42 says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 20:21
?????
I think you’ve got a bit confused. This bears no relation to anything I’ve said..
Ask Zaphod if he’s any the wiser…
I’ve been looking at some of the tweets from “The Pars Community” re feedback from the DAFC Steering Group meeting earlier today and a public meeting of Pars Alive this evening. Going by the following tweets, the outlook is not good.
Bob Garmory of DAFC Steering Group update – ‘TPC offer must be accepted by tomorrow otherwise TPC will stand back’
Bob Garmory of DAFC Steering Group update – ‘unhappy’ that TPC not willing to sign up to deal without looking at the books
Bob Garmory of DAFC Steering Group update – feels that negotiations have ‘gone backwards’ since 9am this morning.
Stephen Taylor of DAFC Steering Group update – Lloyds Bank willing to write off a ‘significant amount’ of EEP debt w/o even pressing them
Stephen Taylor of DAFC Steering Group update – ‘lack of financial transparency at the club’
Bob Garmory of DAFC Steering Group update – Liquidation would give DAFC a ‘clean slate’
Stephen Taylor of DAFC Steering Group – need to get to a viable model for the club – need £375,000 to survive to the end of THIS season!
Bob Garmory of DAFC Steering Group update – need £250,000 from the fans within 2 weeks!
Well that, folks, was certainly the most downbeat of all the recent #Dunfermline meetings. Not sounding good. “Gone Backwards.” #DAFC
killiemad says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 20:59
Really, I thought that you were blaming one person for the actions of your club. In particular when the vote against the new club getting straight into the SPL was an abstention. When the club decided on a cowards route.
I take it that everyone who supports Kilmarnock and everyone who is a shareholders abrogates any responsibility for the clubs actions. Other than Mr Johnstone, who decides everything.
One man makes all of the decisions, one man is the club.
You don’t see the analogy with Rangers, old and new. You don’t see the analogy with Hearts. You don’t see the similarities.
Again, fair enough, if you are happy with that situation, then that is a matter for you.
Big thank you to all who engaged with me last night after my comments. Good stuff.
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 21:26
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I’m a bit puzzled by the TU/TD brigade.
Auldheid responded to my post, [Wednesday, March 13, 2013 at 23:39].
While drafting a reply to this I accidentally posted only Auldheid’s original post [Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 00:12].
Auldheid’s post received 50TU 0TD. When the same words were, apparently, mine 2TU 8TD
Strange.
Auldheid’s post received 50TU 0TD. When the same words were, apparently, mine 2TU 8TD
Strange.
___________________________________________
Not really, plenty of others have done the same in error and had tu due to presumably not adding anything of any value. Don’t take it personally
http://www.raithrovers.info/2013/02/open_meeting.mp3
Lifted from Aberdeenmad, well worth a listen
Celtic are one of the few clubs that has come out with an opinion. Almost all others have kept quiet because they will follow the shilling or in most cases have overspent their shillings. You can criticise Celtic all you want but get your own club off its backside if you have an issue rather than hide in Celtics shadow, whilst pushing them forward.
Lawwell is quiet because he is not a dimwitted loud mouthed chairman.
No one suggested he was. He’s far from it. There are things that need to be said from the people running our organisations and clubs. Very few are prepared to do so and that is to their shame. Lawwell is not the only one but he is by far the biggest voice.
Criticise Celtic all you like if you have grounds for doing so. If you have, I’ll agree with you, as will any Celtic fans I know with a few wxceptions. If you haven’t grounds, then I’ll disagree. I don’t see why anybody should be upset by this. Surely we all have that right.
The response of some Celtic fans is getting to be on a par with that of Rangers fans;
“it’s everybody else’s fault”
“our clubs done everything it can”
And the most cowardly response of all;
“can you imagine the reaction of the red tops if Celtic spoke out!”
The game in Scotland is widely regarded as being on the cusp of terminal decline. Indeed some consider that threshold has already been passed.
Instead of leadership, honesty, soul searching and critical self analysis, some seem to prefer a stance of holding their hands over their ears and repeating “lah! lah! lah! lah! lah!”
ALL clubs and their supporters should be willing to accept constructive criticism.
After all, look what happened to the last club who’s support was ultra sensitive to negative comment.
Yes, Kilmarnock F.C. abstained from the vote. However, which is the more honest a vote? An abstention or a NO vote given by a club that wished to vote YES but was dissuaded from doing so solely as a result of the negative reaction of their support?
In the run up to the SPL vote;
Rod Petrie was having private meetings with Charles Green in an attempt to ‘smooth the way forward’ for TRFC in the SPL.
Eric Riley, was an integral part of the SPL board that was leading the fight to have TRFC retain SPL status.
If you wish to castigate any SPL club for this fiasco you should castigate all. However, the distinction between club and support is a valid one.
Without the reaction of the supporters you can be damn sure the vote to retain TRFC in the SPL would have carried.
And, if you don’t believe Celtic are seeking the prompt re-instatement of the ‘Old Firm’ brand, the lack of any rebuttal to Longmuir’s pronouncement should tell you all you need to know about the intent of Celtic F.C.
Given the censorship on this site, I shan’t be posting again unless it stops. If a completely politically correct post can be censored merely because it is not the majority view, this is a worthless forum. Doubt this will get through either, but if it does then I would hope that all posters would agree that they’d rather read something they disagree with than have dissenting posts censored. Call me naive but I thought that was part of the raison d’etre of this site.
Bunion says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 00:22
The Celtic silence is deafening not dignified.
This blog is in rather markedly turning into Celtic-centric and (although rightly) anti newco.
It feels like no other viewpoints are tolerated. Celtic can do no wrong.
Celtic choose to assert their influence when it suits, but remains strangely mute when it comes any major decisions of late.
And for good measure, the Celtic’s chief defender Mulgrew wishes Newco’s presence back in the SPL asap for the sake of some competition. Is that everyone else’s fault also?
And just so no-one is under any illusion that I am some reasonable minded gent with no axe to grind;
Lawell finds voice when an act of god (not that any exists) prevents Kilmarnock from, gasp!, keeping clear the snow from the streets “surrounding” Rugby Park.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/celtic-chief-lawwell-blasts-killie-1046174
Lawell finds voice when arch rivals cheats Celtic from multiple league titles via use of “undeclared to SFA” playing staff EBT “loan” scheme.
Oops, sorry can’t find any link, Surely oor Peter has “blasted” someone surely?
So there you have it, uncontrollable weather worthy of “blasting”, arch rivals cheating your club of multiple league titles worthy of…erm….ummm….hmmmm……fast track sevco to SPL anyone, with Colt teams thrown in for good measure?
Let the TD commence!
As a CFC fan, can’t argue with much of that. The TD’s are probably from CFC fans who are hoping the silent treatment is due to the clubs opinion being so strong it’s better left unsaid. My personal opinion is that it is no longer dignified, more of a convenient silence now. As far back as the wee tax case, right up till the colts, only a statement about stand alone finances and a now meaningless mumble about law, rules and trust. And the next comment will be about STs and togetherness no doubt. But I also live in hope, until the true sentiments of the club are known, Brenda where’s the clock.
iamacant says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 22:36
http://www.raithrovers.info/2013/02/open_meeting.mp3
Lifted from Aberdeenmad, well worth a listen
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Thanks for posting that. I urge anybody in any doubt about the stench of intimidation and corruption coming from Hampden and Ibrox should not only listen to this – but circulate it as widely as possible.
If Scottish football has been reduced to this that then get the blazers and the brothers out, otherwise The Rangers might as well play in a League of one.
I know some prefer not to read Goram’s taken on the world, but I thought I’d share this little gem with you:
“Clubs like Spartans in Edinburgh have been banging on the door for years.
It would be a disgrace if Rangers and Celtic colt sides were
ushered in.”
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4842527/Fans-right-to-boycott-if-Gers-do-not-go-up.html
Whilst I agree with him on that narrow point, nowhere does he acknowledge that it was a disgrace that The Rangers were ushered into the league ahead of Spartans and others.
Instead, we get the nonsensical “punished enough” rhetoric and, without a hint of shame, “good on the Gers fans for taking such a hardline stance”, and “I backed that boycott and would respect any Gers fan who decided to stay away next season if they are to remain in the bottom tier.”
Then again, it has to be said that there are some so-called Gers fans (a ‘minority’, or more accurately, a ‘majority’ of ‘traditionalists’) that many would like to see boycott every game for evermore. To those I say: “Follow follow Andy’s advice and boycott football. PLEASE!”
FIFA do appear to take an interest in racist (and, presumably, sectarian) displays at games. This from January this year:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20951156
International teams, yes, but you’d think FIFA would expect the SFA do take some form of action when even the TV commentator was forced to apologise …
Perhaps another one for the whistleblower website?
Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 07:45
I know some prefer not to read Goram’s taken on the world, but I thought I’d share this little gem with you:
“Clubs like Spartans in Edinburgh have been banging on the door for years. It would be a disgrace if Rangers and Celtic colt sides were ushered in.
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He’s right. Surely, surely Spartans have been punished enough? Can’t the football authorities stop having fly wee kicks at them?
Galling fiver @ 6:27
Really sorry but the clock exploded 🙂 it was fed up doin lunny’s job for him ………… If someone could give me a list of actions and decisions in the pending tray I can maybe get back on track 😉
Bunion says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 00:22
22 23 i Rate This
If you wish to castigate any SPL club for this fiasco you should castigate all.
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So why are people saying Celtic, or anyone, should have done more than the rest. Should have spoken out more than the rest. Should have considered themselves a special case and should have “led” everyone else.
I’m quite happy for fans of other clubs to say what Celtic (and every other club) should have done, provided their own club has taken similar action.
I’m not happy for people to tell everyone else what their club should be doing when the club they support themselves is doing little or nothing.
Clubs should be acting as one, agreed, fans should be acting as one, agreed. However that is not achieved by Celtic speaking out more than the rest, that has exactly the opposite effect.
If celtic came out alone and challenged this LNS decision iMO this would put the clubs fans in danger. Let us make no mistake here or be under any illusion the rags would fuel this up and the sevco fans would react in the only way they know. All clubs have a part to play in this farce but caution must prevail.
Radiccio – you made your post at 02:16 so I’ll assume you perhaps weren’t in an optimal state. Can you confirm where, on the basis of the following quotes, PL “blasts” anyone?
He said: “Clearly, we are extremely disappointed the match has been postponed.
“We have been told the pitch is perfectly playable but we have also been informed that the game cannot proceed due to the stadium footprint (the area surrounding the stadium) not being cleared. Naturally this is very frustrating for the club and its supporters.
“As is always the case, it is the responsibility of home clubs to ensure that their own footprint or locality is safe and obviously in this case this has not been achieved.”
These are the quotes used – the headline gives an entirely different impression. You’ve taken that impression and sucked it up as intended by the good old MSM, hook, line and sinker. And folk wonder why statements aren’t made on every conceivable topic raised by the MSM in relation to Scottish football?
valentinesclown says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 09:17
Don’t over react, it’s not like Celtic’s manager was physically assaulted by a Hearts supporter, in front of tens of thousands of fans, in a televised game, with loads of stewards and Police Officers about.
I think radiccio was probably referring to the method of reporting. The headline does say “blasts”, and he included that in inverted commas.
It’s not up to him to explain why that word was used.
The inference is that PL can make statements about relatively minor things which are interpreted by the MSM as him being outraged, yet he does not think a much more serious situation which has evidently affected his club in a considerable way is worthy of any comment at all.
Certainly, Mr Lennon made some guarded and brief comments which I notice some are playing up as an official CFC stance. That’s debatable, at best.
Interesting exchanges on here in the last 48 hours including the challenge to this blog from Newshed. In one very important respect I fundamentally disagree with him. The ship has not sailed. Not yet. But the time for action is fast approaching, if not already here.
What have we learned over the past year? Rangers went into liquidation. From previous experience if a club went into liquidation that was the end, as demonstrated from past examples such as Third Lanark, Airdrie, Gretna. You might get a new club set up, they might play at the same ground but they had to start at the very bottom of the pyramid and earn their way up, on the playing field. There was no suggestion they were the same club. Then suddenly a new concept emerged, that the club continued even if the company went bust. This new approach was articulated by the authorities, notably Neil Doncaster. Suddenly, wow, the same Rangers could stay in the SPL. Their financial situation brought about by their too aggressive for every 5 you spend we will spend 10 plus approach to outspending everyone to win win win plus highly aggressive, maybe illegal tax avoidance would just melt into history. Hey presto, they would be back as if that nasty debt was just a mirage. Creditors stuffed, most unfortunate, move along now.
Then we had the FTT. To the astonishment of most, a majority ruling of legality. Rangers tried to hide their actions from HMRC (and the football authorities) made “loans” that never have been and never will be repaid (yes I’ll have some of those please!) but goodness me words in documents mean they are loans, never mind reality.
Next up the LNS enquiry and decision. The most astonishing aspect here, again defying common sense, was that the players were registrated until the evidence actually emerged of the cover up. Even when evidence of the side contracts emerged they were still registered until a process was undertaken by which the registration was removed, even if no rules for such a process existed!
If something is brown and smelly then no matter how much it is wrapped up in fine layers of silver coated legal prose, it’s still what it is. Since February last year for the authorities the wind has continued to blow strongly in a Rangers helpful direction, whether due to what is perceived to be commercial expediency, what I refer to as rolled up trouser leg syndrome, fear or some combination of more than one.
That is what the last year has surely demonstrated.. Does anyone seriously doubt this? So I fear that Auldheid’s excellent effort may just end up proving that once again the authorities can be relied on here to do basically nothing in terms of making a stand for anything that indicates an appetite for upholding the rules, for integrity.
But one thing and one thing only has happened in the last year that was in a direction of being fair, just and driven by an appetite for integrity. That was TRFC ending up in the Third Division. This was despite what the likes of Doncaster, Regan, Longmuir and others attempted to cook up. There is no doubt why this happened. So many fans said enough is enough that they could not withstand the pressure, not at season ticket renewal time. So they were forced, like it or not, to actually accept an outcome that was more just, more fair.
The lesson from the last year is don’t rely on the authorities. It is up to us, the fans, the customers. If you actually like your sport to have a degree of fairness, a degree of respect for the rules, then I’m afraid you are going to have to stand up and be counted again or accept a diet of football poisoned with unfairness or walk away. The most powerful time to do so is now, season ticket renewal time.
A big question is how do fans feel? Is there a strong sentiment out there or are people all just weary of the whole saga and wishing to move on? I would argue that while blogs like RTC played an important part a year ago, fans of just about every club were in uproar. Whether you looked on Aberdeen Mad, Jambos Kickback, Hibs net, Dundee United Mad, Steelmen Online, the list goes on. In order to achieve something it has to be a groundswell again. There needs to be engagement across all the football web sites. I’m not sure what the right place is to lead this engagement? This blog is perceived by some to be Celtic dominated.
But IMHO a standard form of communication needs to go to each of the major supporter websites. The message has to be along the lines:
We believe that the only reason that a reasonably just outcome emerged from the Rangers saga over the last year (Club into Third Division) was due to the threat of us, the fans, not to renew season tickets.
We have a strong dislike of suggestions of boycotts or threats to clubs but we believe that it is of critical important that clubs are aware of how their customers, the fans, feel. There is a risk that a significant number of fans will not renew their season tickets if the wrong steps are taken by the football authorities. What the fans want is to move on to a new positive era for Scottish football. To date the actions of the authorities gives us no confidence that the right steps will be taken to achieve this outcome.
We would argue that the most important steps are:
A commitment to a principle that ALL Scottish football clubs are equal (and none “more equal than others”)
Consistent with this principle a commitment that no club will be given special treatment including any suggestion that any club will be accelerated up to a higher league than the position they finish would merit (and specifically that TRFC would need to earn two promotions after this season to return to the top flight)
Again consistent with the principle that ALL teams are equal, No colt teams
A commitment to transparency, fairness and integrity from the SFA going forward as the single most important guiding principle over all others, to be demonstrated by the election of a new President to the SFA, prepared to champion this principle in their actions, replacing Cambell Ogilvie who is clearly conflicted by his involvement with Rangers and in particular the EBT scheme.
While we consider that these are the most important steps, we recognise that the supporters of your club may have a different perspective and we would therefore ask your feedback on other issues that are seen as so important they justify inclusion on a list of what the authorities must do.
I think these are fair but sufficiently modest demands that could get widespread support. If you add too many you risk losing numbers and momentum.
I have deliberately left league reconstruction out of this. I believe raising this as an issue would be a big mistake. It is clear that those who we might admire (Turnbull Hutton is my yardstick) feel that it is a step in the right direction and you can see why. One league governing body, move towards a fairer financial distribution, move away from 11/1 voting majority blocking any change, more promotion and relegation potentially to the top tier. It’s either this or no change and, with this, the potential for further change to improve the set up is enhanced.
Views?
Must be the first boycott in history which is welcomed by its intended victims!
I heard Charlie Mulgrews interview, he did not say he wanted them back ASAP. He attempted a fudged answer and found himself out of his depth, he had no script unlike all of the other public commentators of this farce. And there in lies a problem, I blame the club for letting the question happen, and also for not giving a clear public stance on what the answer should have been.
” you canny f***in say that, what kinda f***in statement is that, Archie mon listen tae this…….. ” works for some follk, but in that case a simple ” no comment ” in future will do.
Sorry for the ****** stuff, just trying to highlight what is acceptable and by whom when speaking to the MSM.
Coming back to the blog after a prolonged absence…
As has been eloquently said above, the last year has clearly demonstrated the extraordinary lengths that the SFA, SPL and SFL will go to protect vested interest (‘vested interest’ may come in more than one flavour).
So am I paranoid when I read the news about Dunfermline?
So Mr Masterton, ex of the Bank of Scotland and I believe the principal organiser of lent finance to Mr Murray during the EBT ‘glory’ days, has fled the country to Switzerland the most respectable of havens for bankers on the run because of the impending fall out associated with the potential demise of DAFC.
Well it is a ‘potential’ demise at the moment. However it seems that Mr Masterton holds the key to preventing that demise by negotiating a deal with the group that has offered to bail the club out. It seems that Mr Masterton has no intention of doing such a deal and would rather let the Pars be liquidated.
Who benefits?
I know I’m paranoid, but…. (brace yourself)
Wouldn’t that leave a nice wee slot two divisions above the lowest division that needs a team to fill it? Maybe there could be some extraordinary sale of a share to a club that had sufficient funds to afford it, thereby allowing them to progress a few divisions rather rapidly.
I know, I know… total paranoia.
However, given the events of the last year, and given the main protagonists (culprits?) remain firmly in place, are we not correct to view each and every action of the Scottish footballing establishment through a prism of extreme scepticism?
When faith in the businessmen that run Scottish football is at such a low ebb (in many cases has dried up entirely), is it any wonder that fans are voting with their feet?
I hope the Pars manage to avoid liquidation and manage to rid themselves of the corrupting influence of a man who has contributed so much to the damage inflicted on Scottish football in recent times.
Galling, was it not “Chick” that carried out that infamous interview with the ” venerable” cardigan
Regarding the opinions posted regarding Celtic’s continued silence over Rangers’ cheating and tax fraud over the last couple of years (since the facts became known) and the attempts to shoehorn Sevco back in with no punishments.To quote Edmund Burke: “For evil to succeed all that is required is for good men to do nothing.”
This is the root cause of a large number of supporters (including myself) to lose faith with Celtic FC. Celtic are perceived to be “the good guys” yet I cannot see how they are trying to stop the corruption and death of Scottish football. I have stated before and will state again, I believe Celtic FC are behind every attempt to shoehorn Sevco back to the top of Scottish football and re-invigorate the “Old Firm” brand. This is why I have walked away from the club and they will never receive a penny of my money again (unless I am proved wrong).
The statements that mention public unrest if Celtic FC stand up for what is right are an appeasement. Non-Sevco fans demand that the police go into the stands to arrest people singing racist & sectarian songs; the police do not want to go in as thay claim they could get hurt;non-Sevco fans demand “get in there & uphold the law” but Celtic FC are allowed to stand by & are praised for it? Not by me. What are the point of laws then?
“Celtic FC will do what is good for them:” Celtic FC has made it clear that they believe leaving Scottish football is best for them. As a Scot first, and Celtic FC fan second, I cannot and will not support this view. If the club’s current position is that they do not care about Scottish football because they will be leaving it shortly, then why not have the honesty to say so?
I will finish with another quotation from Edmund Burke: “There is, however, a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue.”
iamacant says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 22:36
11 0 Rate This
http://www.raithrovers.info/2013/02/open_meeting.mp3
Lifted from Aberdeenmad, well worth a listen
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Thumbs up from me too. Hutton argues a good case for grabbing the 12-12-18 setup and other aspects of the package. If one team wants to boycott every other team in the league of 18 that still leaves 17 non-boycotters, and some interesting promotion & relegation. The boycott will maybe benefit the other teams in the sporting sense since that one team will have no away support. Could also be cheaper for home teams too with the need for fewer polis!
Great link.
newshedenvy says:
Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 21:25
6 22 Rate This
…. Auldheid’s post received 50TU 0TD. When the same words were, apparently, mine 2TU 8TD
Strange.
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The words were not ‘apparently’ yours. Anyone following the blog knew the original author. The answer to why people would thumb you down may lie elsewhere.
Geordie Bhoy. @ 11.55. I will finish with another quotation from Edmund Burke: “There is, however, a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue.”
Voltaire, when on his death bed was asked to renounce the devil, he said ” This is no time to make new enemies”
Taysider, spot on.
Views.
I know reconstruction is not a topic within that. But the 11/1 voting structure may just scupper the reconstruction at present,. Restructuring was not on the menu last Valentines day. And IMHO crucial for only one club today and not so crucial to two remotely located clubs, ironically I kinda like the rule at the moment.
I agree that the 11/1 rule has been abused by CFC/Oldco in the past for self preservation.
But, how many votes are we talking about to veto proposals in future, given that we have had a CEO recently suggesting paying for votes on behalf of a new member club back in the summer, should we be looking at proposals needing the backing of all 12, or a simple majority so that it will cost more to swing a vote, and maybe a set valuation for votes.
Most of that was tongue in cheek. Sorry for over posting today, but it has been slow recently.
Have I missed a big news story? I am still waiting on the SPL to either endorse or denounce the LNS findings.
Surely if the SPL are in total agreement/disagreement with LNS then a statement would have been issued before now. Does the silence suggest a bit of turmoil? Or have I just missed the big news story after all?
If I haven’t and no statement has been published can you get your clock wound up Brenda please.
Voltaire, when on his death bed was asked to renounce the devil, he said ” This is no time to make new enemies”
___________________
Oscar Wilde.?
The Pars Community (TPC) have withdrawn their bid for Dunfermline and terminated discussions with Masterton’s representatives
http://www.slideshare.net/ThePars1885/tpc-press-release-15-march
Looks like it is now down to HMRC and Masterton himself.
The stance of every single Scottish Club is, frankly, despicable.
Cowards, sheep and self interested wasters with no vision or leadership to actually improve the game in Scotland
Honestly, sod them all, let them go down with the ship – do and watch your kids team or the local junior team – take a couple of years off from the “professional game”
Lets see how long they decide to ignore the “customers” for then.
Brenda Apologies for the clock, I trust Mr Brenda’s eggs are not unduly affected re their cooking times. With regards to Mr Lunny and any action taken against the “teflonians” I suspect we may have to use a form of the ” Mayan” calendar before we see any action proposed or taken against them, but for a new club they’re certainly building up a decent history of incidents.
Re the ongoing stance on what Celtic should or should not do , are they not unable , due to the outcome of SPL board ratifying LNS or not , to comment . Would they not be accused of trying to ochestrate or influence another “kicking” for the TRFC.
Lets be honest anyone who frequents this blog or the RTC previously would be naive in the extreme to think the MSM and friends wouldn’t take an opportunity to point the finger at them as orchestrating the whole downfall of the TRFC , and Peter Lawwell in particular.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 13:14
The stance of every single Scottish Club is, frankly, despicable.
Cowards, sheep and self interested wasters with no vision or leadership to actually improve the game in Scotland
Honestly, sod them all, let them go down with the ship – do and watch your kids team or the local junior team – take a couple of years off from the “professional game”
Lets see how long they decide to ignore the “customers” for then.
___________________________________________________________________________
Well said NTHM! This echoes my sentiments entirely.
Last Autumn, I wrote to my club Hibs who I have supported for as many of the 50 years of my life as I can remember, to explain why they wouldn’t be receiving a penny of my money this season, or potentially ever again This was because in my opinion they (and Rod Petrie) were complicit in the corrupt and underhand activities to ensure the survival of “Rangers” and were willing to sacrifice all sporting integrity and moral, regulatory and legal principles to ensure their survival.
And what for? So that twice a year a bunch of mindless bigots can spend a few miserable pounds at our ground while their overpaid tax free team invariably humps us while their “fans” screech sectarian and arrogant hatred? This was counter productive anyway as I (and many others I know) stopped going to home games against them years ago as we couldn’t stand the bile and actual physical violence. So our cash was lost to the club anyway. Too many negative experiences of walking down Easter Road to see my HOME club, surrounded by WATP verbally and sometimes physically attacing me for having the temerity to support my local club was more than enough for me. (irony abounds, as I lost count of the times I was described as a “f*nian b**tard” despite being an aethist from a wholly protestant background!)
So anyway, I digress. The reply I got from Hibs to my concerns about their lack of support for integrity? pretty much “meh” and a verbal shrug of the shoulders. “rangers” or Sevco or whatever they are these days, are more important than their own club or supporters. So why should I care then???
So, the only club to have got cash out of me this year have been Raith Rovers, to honour the stance of Turnbull Hutton, and I wrote and told him so. And received several forthright, erduite and warm replies. Perhaps the only true football man left in Scotland, alongside the Boards of the two or three other SFL clubs who bravely stood up and made public pronouncements against the disgraceful shoehorning of Sevco into the SFL against all rules and precedent.
So Scottish football can go forth and multiply as far as I’m concerned, until “Rangers” are given the final resting place they so richly deserve.
dentarthurdent42 says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 13:09
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Yes, it is a serious point, even if you do not agree with it. The police are there to uphold the laws of the land and the clubs are there to police the football laws. Looking the other way, keeping “a dignified silence” etc. has only allowed the transgressions of Rangers & Sevco not only to go unpunished but also to reward them.
Celtic’s & other clubs’ fans have paid thousands of pounds, travelled thousands of miles in making the effort to support their teams. They know that they have been cheated. And yet the clubs do nothing to right the wrongs. Why should I (or anyone else) pay for more of the same?
“So Scottish football can go forth and multiply as far as I’m concerned, until “Rangers” are given the final resting place they so richly deserve.”
and I should add, the SFA, SPL & SFL cabal (we all know who they are) are turfed out on their ample backsides in the street, D&P are disbarred, and the various eminent QCs and Lords from debating societies are publically disgraced for their part in this corruption.
Blindsummit – well said, sir.
Hat.
blindsummit63 says:
Well at least you got a reply from your club. I’ve sent three to AFC and got nothing back.
Captain Haddock says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 14:17
Well at least you got a reply from your club. I’ve sent three to AFC and got nothing back
_________________________________________________________________________
Methinks their silence is an answer in itself CH I’m afraid.
I’m on a roll this morning, and I have another topic that I genuinely want to get views on.
The LNS enquiry deemed, without any supporting verbiage, that Rangers’ activities over the EBT era did NOT give them a sporting advantage. Without going over the well kent story of what they did over that period, it’s clear to those of us with a brain and no blue tinted specs that they generated and concealed large sums of cash that enabled them to hire better players than they otherwise could have, and therefore won more games and trophies as a result.
But lets accept LNS’s statement that this did not constitute a sporting advantage.
So here’s the question I have been struggling with. If what Rangers did did NOT confer a sporting advantage then what WOULD be an example of something that DID constitute such an unfair advantge?
Or to put it another way what would a club actually have to do to be deeemed to have gained an unfair advantage according to the current rules of the game as explained by the lofty Scottish Football authorities?
has anyone got any examples of what might trigger such a claim? This is a serious question, as I’m struggling to think of anything, absolutely anything, that isn’t fair game for clubs to try now.
Senior says:
Voltaire, when on his death bed was asked to renounce the devil, he said” This is no time to make new enemies”
___________________
Oscar Wilde.?
____________
Tut Tut Senior!
Old Oscar final words were “Either those curtains go, or I go!”
blindsummit63,
Excellent posts. To answer your question, it would appear that all you have to do to gain a sporting advantage in Scottish football is to play a player you didn’t know had had his registration rejected because of a missing second date. The SFA, apparently, didn’t think it worth their while using the phone to advise said club that it had been rejected, so it was clearly the club’s fault.
But I suppose when you are already the biggest club in the country you already have such a big advantage, sporting or otherwise, that adding one more doesn’t make much difference. It’s when you’re a small club, with absolutely no permanent advantages, that missing dates off forms can, quite naturally, create an advantage over your opponents that so clearly merits expulsion from a competition you already didn’t have a chance of winning.
Perhaps what LNS actually meant when he said Rangers hadn’t gained a ‘sporting’ advantage was that what they’d gained was an ‘unsporting’ one, and as that isn’t covered in the rules, it was perfectly alright 😉 .
See, it’s easy to get the result you want when everybody involved wants the same result!
allyjambo says:
Perhaps what LNS actually meant when he said Rangers hadn’t gained a ‘sporting’ advantage was that what they’d gained was an ‘unsporting’ one, and as that isn’t covered in the rules, it was perfectly alright .
_________________________________________________________________________
lol! Nice one AJ. I see what you did there 🙂
So that’s one real example – the failure to date twice a registration form.
Has anyone got any speculative ones though, based on the recent relaxation of the rules by LNS?
spelling correction for my long post above. My fat fingers typed “edurite” when naturally I meant “erudite”. There are multiple layers of irony at work there ,l>
blindsummit63 on Friday, March 15, 2013 at 14:42
8 0 Rate This
I’m on a roll this morning, and I have another topic that I genuinely want to get views on.
————–
At a guess other clubs would be deemed to gain sporting advantage by doing the same things but not being the establishment club.
alex thomson @alextomo
NUJ upholds £1000 fine on David Leggat and says he’s not a “fit or proper person” to join the Union.
blindsummit63 says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 14:42
trying to gain an unfair sporting advantage is usually indicated by
a) playing in green and white
b) being called Hibernians or Hibs
c) at some time in the (very) distant past having Hibernians or Hibs as part of your team name
d) being in favour of “sporting integrity”
e) any combination of the above
Brian McHugh (@pbmchugh) says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 14:57
5 0 i
Rate Up
Senior says:
Voltaire, when on his death bed was asked to renounce the devil, he said” This is no time to make new enemies”
___________________
Oscar Wilde.?
____________
Tut Tut Senior!
Old Oscar final words were “Either those curtains go, or I go!”
=======================================
Wasn’t it wallpaper? – wallpaper was pretty hideous in these days.
Been reading the parsalive forum this week. Moving stuff. They reckon it’s the last match tomorrow. Got to feel for these proper fans of football:
http://www.parsalive.org.uk/Forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1
gaining a sporting advantage is when you sign a striker just before an old firm match and do no allow the SFA endless time to register him before the game
in these circumstances the SFA are duty bound to hold up the registration until after the match takes place
Re the lack of a “strong” Celtic voice in the wake of LNS and the general charge of a lack of leadership over the course of the RFC debacle.
Whilst Celtic represents a lot of fans, as far as I am aware they only have 1 vote along with all the other SPL clubs in terms of decision making. OK, Eric Riley is on the board, but again that is only 1 vote among a number.
From conversations with non-CFC/RFC fans over the years I am of the impression that the great majority hold or held the false impression that CFC/RFC run the Scottish game in a perfectly symbiotic relationship, both with absolutely perfect equilibrium of power and influence over the game.
This is pure myth.
Entrenched dogmatic unshakeable myth, but myth nonetheless.
Whilst I would never say Celtic have had no influence on the game and did not have some stake economically in an “Old Firm” relationship, CFC have often been marginalised and alienated when it comes to wielding power in the Scottish game, quite the contrary, the SFA/SFL have had absolutely no qualms in bringing Celtic to heel, so to speak, e.g. the Flag affair, Tommy Burns “tapping” fine, Jorge Cadete affair etc etc.
My intention here is not to degenerate into some “everybody’s against us” wallowing – as was the charge on the blog earlier – merely to highlight a disparity with the utter impotence the same organisations have shown in dealing with the meltdown at RFC – to dispel this notion that Celtic are some heavyweight player who can just pick the SFA/SFL up by the ankles and give them a good shake.
I mentioned being marginalised and nowhere has this been more true, certainly over the past 20 years, than in the Scottish media.
Comments were posted earlier bemoaning the perception that TSFM is an “anti-Rangers” blog and gave the bad Celtic zealots a wee telling off for dragging everybody down.
Is it not a bit much to then hide behind the bad Celtic zealots and tell them to go and get the big bad man for you?
Now if TSFM – with all its objective, rational and objective posters – can be seen as “anti-Rangers” so much so that we must collapse into a crisis of introspection and self-censure to appease our tormentors, for whom no concession is ever enough, then it’s not hard to picture the media reaction to the kind of statements fans of other clubs have been calling for Celtic to make re preventing fastrack to the SPL or any other kind of favourable treatment of TRFC.
Non CFC/RFC fans on TSFM and its predecessor RTC have apparently experienced an awakening to the true loyalties and MO of the Scottish media over the past 24 months or so – well for Celtic fans it’s just been business as usual and glad you guys could drop by.
The media are no friends of Celtic, I could give a plethora of examples but don’t want to labour the point as I think most of you understand that now but it took a while for you to arrive at that view and it took major upheaval and extraordinary events for the curtain to be pulled back.
So the point is, if Celtic had waded in at an early stage with stronger demands of sporting integrity, “Newco must start in SFL3, titles must be stripped” etc etc.. The Redtop, Tabloid TV agenda, with the likes of a certain Jim Traynor leading the charge, would inevitably have been “CELTIC PLUNGE THE KNIFE INTO GERS / CELTS IN FOR THE KILL “ etc etc . It would have been a feeding frenzy with Celtic FC the hate-fuelled bigots with the agenda to get the knife in. The media would have immediately reduced the issue to a polarised CFC v RFC situation, with CFC the baddies who want to get their greedy hands on RFC’s titles won by hard graft if not aided by a few honestly made administrative mistakes and forgetting to pay a wee bit of tax which was all the fault of individuals not the club anyway.
This would have alienated fans of all other clubs who would have viewed it as just another Old Firm wrangle, two sides of the same bent coin haggling over their own self interest, the usual cynicism would have kicked in and the full gravity of what RFC had been up to would have been watered down. Other fans would have been much more inclined to agree to a compromise following the dogma that CFC and RFC are equally bad sides of the bent coin, ergo the truth of the situation must invariably be somewhere in the middle. Let’s just fix it and move on.
The involvement of CFC automatically brings with it a whole barrage of dark assumptions and prejudices and is easily used as smoke and mirrors to deflect from the indefensible.
This isn’t helped by CFC being viewed as the party with most to gain from RFC’s demise re past and future titles.
Quite the contrary – I would say the onus is very much on the other SPL clubs – free from this sectarian nonsense baggage – to make the case publicly and loudly but appear to be unwilling to do so, either as a result of intimidation or because they wish to help facilitate a swift catapult of TRFC into the SPL.
Why Celtic’s reticence is in some way more reprehensible than that of other clubs is beyond me.
I don’t dismiss the notion that Celtic FC are not entirely unsympathetic to a fastracking of TRFC but my opinion would be that I don’t think this is the case as they essentially have free access to 3 years CL money.
Where Celtic fans have been accused of retreating into a Sevco “everyone’s against us mentality” – unfairly IMO – it’s disappointing to see – only a few – posters apparently taking on a Sevco “we deserve better, Celtic should sort it all out” stance.
Time to mend some bridges here
Danish Pastry says: Friday, March 15, 2013 at 15:40
Been reading the parsalive forum this week. Moving stuff. They reckon it’s the last match tomorrow. Got to feel for these proper fans of football:
http://www.parsalive.org.uk/Forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1
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Hooray – Well done DP in commenting on the biggest current story in Scottish football.
A team with a fine history (128 years, 2 Scottish Cup wins and a Cup Winners Cup Semi) is close to going to the wall while so many on this blog seem content to endlessly repeat arguments about the LNS decision.
Hardly a great advert for contributions “The Scottish Football Monitor”
Why wont Masterton do a deal. What does he get? The land? All sounded so doable yesterday.
blindsummit63 says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 13:44
{a fellow Hibby to boot}
So Scottish football can go forth and multiply as far as I’m concerned, until “Rangers” are given the final resting place they so richly deserve.
==============================================
I live abroad and have for many years but come back to ER when I can. I was thinking of buying a ST this season but the lack of leadership from ER and RP during last summer made me change my mind. And nothing since then has persuaded me otherwise.
Sadly, although I still read some scottish fitba websites, I’m almost lost to scottish football. And don’t get me started on the National Team.
Next time I come back I might just take a wee trip to Raith. TH deserves it.
that’s what happens when you have an artificially sweet daddy propping up your club at an Unsustainable level.instead finding your true level.
I expect major campaigns to save Dunfermline by the press with Doncaster, Regan and co claiming the league will fold and the sky will fall if they are not saved.
easyJambo says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 16:05
3 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says: Friday, March 15, 2013 at 15:40
Been reading the parsalive forum this week. Moving stuff. They reckon it’s the last match tomorrow. Got to feel for these proper fans of football:
http://www.parsalive.org.uk/Forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1
=============================
Hooray – Well done DP in commenting on the biggest current story in Scottish football.
A team with a fine history (128 years, 2 Scottish Cup wins and a Cup Winners Cup Semi) is close to going to the wall while so many on this blog seem content to endlessly repeat arguments about the LNS decision.
Hardly a great advert for contributions “The Scottish Football Monitor”
————————
It makes gripping reading easyjambo. No sound from the SFL or SFA yet either. Masterton seems to have gone off to Switzerland while the fans try to rescue the club. A fit and proper person? Regarding LNS, it seems the authorities are too afraid to say anything. Criminal investigations will no doubt drag on. I must confess to finding the honest-to-goodness football and supporters of the lower leagues an inspiration. At some point you have put LNS and the whole Newco Rangers thing in an isolated room and shut the door. I expect natural justice will run its course, eventually. This quote from a poster called parsville on P&B is kind of thought-provoking:
“The difference between Rangers fans and Pars fans and indeed most most Scottish fans. Pars fans know their owners have mucked up, they know the club will die, they will accept whatever punishment comes their way. If the clubs die they’ll be heart broken but will know its because they had an owner who destroyed them and they will admit that. If they can rescue something but have to go to Div 3 they will accept that, they won’t feel bitter towards fans of other clubs, they know the club has to face punishment. If its a newco and we have to start at the bottom we’ll accept we may have lost all our titles, cup wins history. Thats will be a bitter blow but really, why should we keep the title of a club that died, a club who left a mountain of debt. But mainly we blame no one bar the owner, its not the fault of other clubs or fans, we only have ourselves to blame. I think other Scottish fans would feel the same way.
Now look at Rangers fans, they screamed and kicked all the way, they never ever accepted they did anything wrong and still won’t accept. They were rightly punished but now want to extract revenge on everyone. They have a new club but amazingly were allowed to keep all the history of the old discredited club and they never even felt any shame about that. As bitter a bunch as you will ever meet.
I fear my club is dead, I don’t think we’ll get a newco together, we might but if we do then it will be a new club, as far as i’m concerned we would have no right to the history of the previous incarnation.”
The ground is owned by East End Park Ltd, one of Masterton’s companies, so he would hang onto that if the club went into liquidation.
However, while DAFC are in debt to Masterton, he too is also heavily in debt to Lloyds.
I don’t know what Masterton hopes to gain from letting the club go under, unless he has plans to develop the site, thus getting at least some of his money back.
Masterton is definitely a Dunfermline man through and through, but his business record is shocking for someone who was formerly Managing Director of one of our major Banks. His links with (S)DM have been well documented, as have other ventures like the Stadia Group that also impacted on Livingston.
easyJambo says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 16:37
2 0 Rate This
The ground is owned by East End Park Ltd, one of Masterton’s companies, so he would hang onto that if the club went into liquidation.
However, while DAFC are in debt to Masterton, he too is also heavily in debt to Lloyds.
I don’t know what Masterton hopes to gain from letting the club go under, unless he has plans to develop the site, thus getting at least some of his money back.
Masterton is definitely a Dunfermline man through and through, but his business record is shocking for someone who was formerly Managing Director of one of our major Banks. His links with (S)DM have been well documented, as have other ventures like the Stadia Group that also impacted on Livingston.
—————–
I understood that the status of his remarkable, long-term, interest-free bank loan was connected directly to the status of East End Park, in the sense that it’s in his personal financial interest to maintain EEP as a football venue. Maybe he’s still hoping for people to buy into the club? Or maybe he’s been inspired by how Hearts’ fans contributed generously, no-questions-asked, to save their club? You can’t help think this kind of rot started with the whole SPL concept.
cowanpete says:
I live abroad and have for many years but come back to ER when I can. I was thinking of buying a ST this season but the lack of leadership from ER and RP during last summer made me change my mind. And nothing since then has persuaded me otherwise.
Sadly, although I still read some scottish fitba websites, I’m almost lost to scottish football. And don’t get me started on the National Team.
Next time I come back I might just take a wee trip to Raith. TH deserves it.
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Hey cowanpete, this is the same for me. I live abroad now but still attended matches when visiting Scotland and bought merchandise every year and paid to watch games on Hibernian TV. I guess my lack of residency convinced the club that they could afford to lose this sum of money without worrying too much. Hmmm. My son actually gave up a few years ago. he saw then that the game was rigged and gave up. No point in going to see a competition where we are not allowed a chance at winning were his words.
My cash goes to NHL Hockey now (Detroit Red Wings). I can walk down the street wearing my hockey top without being knifed, mingle with fans of other clubs at games and in the pub, sit next to them at games, have a beer in my seat, and know that I’m watching a competition where anyone can win and where “upsets” regularly happen.
TH did invite me along to Raith though and I intend to oblige at the earliest opportunity. He deserves support.
easyJambo
”Masterton is definitely a Dunfermline man through and through, but his business record is shocking for someone who was formerly Managing Director of one of our major Banks. His links with (S)DM have been well documented, as have other ventures like the Stadia Group that also impacted on Livingston.”
That is a an excellent point, which strangely has not been commented upon by the MSM, with a couple of notable exceptions. You call it correct – Masterton is a colossal failure as a business man, as Dominic Keane will be happy to confirm. What is clear is that “business” and “the business of banking” are mutually-exclusive domains of enterprise and, as has been proven by the continuing, deepening banking catastophe being visited upon most of Europe (that includes the UK by the way 😉 ) there is no appetite across the banking fraternity to either invest in or help the average business. There are hundreds of identikit Mastertons across the UK living the life of riley whilst the average man in the street continues to suffer and pay for the banking-clones lux lifestyle.
So we have two examples now of situations where our football overlords may still rule that someone has gained an unfair sporting advantage:
1. Failing to correctly date a form twice.
2. Sneaking an extra player onto the field of play during the game.
I rather fear though, that given the logic displayed in the LNS fiasco that the second instance will have a caveat.
I believe the “authorities” would rule that the extra player was not illegal while on the park UNTIL he was noticed by the officials. Only at that point would he deemed to be illegal and asked to leave the field of play. So up to that point in the match he would be LEGAL and everything that happened while he was on the field would be allowed to stand. Even if he had scored a goal for instance.
Sound familiar?
Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia) says:
Friday, March 15, 2013 at 16:04
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A well-considered and argued post. You are preaching to the converted here about the bias shown towards Ibrox, both on and off the pitch.
I believe the biggest casualty of the Rangers liquidation and the rise of the internet bampots is the MSM. There is still football played at Ibrox and Armageddon passed by the SPL & SFL this year. No-one I know trusts what they read in the newspapers or on radio/television any more. My dad (who is not a Celtic fan) and uncles (who are) had season tickets for their teams and traditionally got their football news from the MSM. Not any more. They go directly to the web sites of their clubs and fan sites like this to find out what is happening (even as pensioners). The traditional media has lost their custom for good and are a spent force.
The question most people are now asking is given all that has happened, when will Celtic speak up? Will they ever? I take your points regarding how things would have been portrayed had they spoken up too early but that situation has passed. The MSM, the SPL, SFL & SFA have gone “all in” and lost. Even the Sevconians see through them.
Celtic fans cannot make it clearer that they will walk away if they do not see good faith in Celtic’s actions. Some (including me) have already walked. The only conclusion I can now draw from Celtic’s silence is that they have something to hide. I wish I was wrong.
From Pars website
Re: Why No Statement from DAFC?
Postby jims007 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:31 pm
Just out ….
BREAKING NEWS: Pars issue statement
Published 15 Mar 2013 17:12 0 Comments
Jump to first paragraph.
THE PARS have issued a statement after the collapse of talks to save the club today (Friday).
It reads, “DAFC notes the most recent statement by The Pars Community.
“DAFC has been corresponding and negotiating in good faith with The Pars Community for a number of months, with the recent support of the Steering Group led by Jim Leishman and Bob Garmory.
“The initial proposal by TPC involved CHL and Gavin Masterton’s shareholding in the club reducing to 10% in return for an investment of £500,000 of which £250,000 was to be underwritten by a group of named individuals and £250,000 was to be raised from supporters.
“In addition, the proposal required providers of loans to the club to write those loans down by 60 per cent.
“Following this initial proposal, a working group was constructed which secured a number of additional concessions from CHL & Mr Masterton, which would have seen CHL’s shareholding in the club reducing to zero, and writing off a greater proportion of debt than envisaged under the TPC proposal.
“It was expected that Heads of Terms on that proposal would be signed today and that the TPC would commence due diligence today, which would have led to the financial transparency they had been so urgently seeking and to verify if the proposed offer was a viable solution.
“However, despite repeated requests to demonstrate that the £250,000 of capital was available by the named supporters to deal with the HMRC issue, the TPC were unable or unwilling to demonstrate such availability.
“This led the club to request the TPC to deposit such funds in an escrow account to be released to the club following completion of due diligence.
“At that point the TPC withdrew its offer and subsequently submitted a further proposal, but on significantly more onerous terms than their original one.
“DAFC and its representatives sought a meeting with TPC this afternoon to seek assurances, but the TPC declined this request and have now withdrawn their proposal.
“The board of DAFC continues to explore all avenues to secure the future of our club as quickly as possible, we will update supporters of progress as soon as possible whilst respecting the financially sensitive nature of the negotiations.”