Excellent food for thought which we thought worthy of inclusion…
331 thoughts on “Gilt-Edged Justice”
tomtomaswell says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 15:37
Who was Bryson there on behalf of?
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Good Question 🙂
1) A witness for the SPL
2) A witness for Rangers
3) Representing the SFA – but would that prejudice the SFA appellate function
But I wonder who called him which might not provide the same answer as to the the choices above.
This might cheer up Goosey, The Scottish parliament petitions committee has invited Lord Gill to give evidence on the petition calling for the creation of a Judge’s Register of Interests!
On the subject of Rangers gaining a sporting advantage or not…
Rangers were charged with fielding a number of ineligible players after 23rd May 2005 – however, this charge was dropped by the SPL and its “prosecutor” Mr McKenzie.
Rangers were never charged with gaining a sporting advantage by failing to fully disclose players’ contracts. The early SPL rules did not state that failure to disclose would result in the relevant players being deemed ineligible. That rule did not apply until 2005.
The guilty verdict they delivered was simply for failing to disclose all details of players contracts. The sanction – a fine – was deemed to be appropriate because the commission did not see anything in the rules or in the particular circumstances, that suggested a sporting sanction would be appropriate for a non-sporting offence. No evidence was provided by the SPL “prosecutor” to suggest that non-disclosure of parts of a player’s contract gave rise to any sporting advantage.
As it stands, the payments that were not disclosed are perfectly legal; therefore, if the affected players were not ineligible, it seems obvious that no sporting advantage was gained.
In the absence of a guilty verdict in the BTC, the SPL commission was certainly within its rights to apply a non-sporting sanction for non-disclosure prior to 2005. In fact, it is difficult to see how a sporting sanction could be applied.
The idea that LNS came to a perverse decision in relation to the £250k fine is simply sucking the lifeblood from this blog. I think the question over whether or not Rangers gained a sporting advantage is totally missing the point.
Let me explain.
In considering a potential Conflict of Interest, Lord Hodge has decided to await the result of the Insolvency Practitioners Association’s report on the conduct of Duff & Phelps in their administration of Rangers Football Club plc. I believe this is right and proper. Until he knows the outcome of the IPA’s investigation, Lord Hodge does not necessarily know all of the relevant facts, so cannot safely deliver a verdict and (if necessary) an appropriate sanction.
BDO, in turn, are unlikely to make any financial demands on the new Rangers, until Lord Hodge has made his ruling. For BDO the potentially, to claim that rangers’ assets were sold under value is much greater if the administrators are found to have had a conflict of interest.
If the SPL had been considering “sporting advantage” as part of charges of which they were found guilty- or even as an aggravating factor – the commission could not have begun before the UTT had completed its work and published its findings. Since the SPL decided to push ahead with the commission and have accepted the result of the FTT(T) (without the possibility that it could be overturned) we have to believe that the SPL did not – and never intended to – prove that Rangers gained a sporting advantage by failing to fully disclose its players’ contracts.
Pressing ahead with the LNS commission before the UTT has completely settled the legitimacy of Rangers’ EBT scheme, effectively ensured Rangers sporting achievements prior to 2005 would not be adjusted by this commission.
The point we need to focus on is not the correctness (or otherwise) of a £250k fine for non-disclosure. This sanction is demonstrably fair as far as I am concerned. There is no legitimate argument that I am aware of suggesting that the SPL rules – as they were written prior to May 2005 – demanded a sporting punishment for a non-sporting offence.
Non-disclosure only BECAME a sporting offence when contract disclosure became a condition of player eligibility in 2005. Therefore, I believe the only sporting sanctions the commission could ever have applied were in relation to the specific charge of fielding ineligible players after 23rd May of that year.
The commission (wrongly in my view) took this rule to take registration & eligibility to mean the same thing. They (wrongly in my view) took the view that improper player registration would not affect eligibility retrospectively.
If this site is to seek focus in relation to the commission, in my view we need to focus on:
1. Why the artificial fusion of registration and eligibility was left to go unchallenged.
2. Why the SPL – despite ostensibly laying the charges – did not provide sufficient effort to prove to the commission, that players whose contracts were not fully disclosed, were ineligible in accordance with the rules as they have existed from May 2005.
Some questions from a piece on the Rangers website;
What was the real reason that the SPL clubs en masse said no to newco?
Why did the SPL not hand over the prize money Rangers won last season?
Why did the SPL and SFA demand that newco pay oldco’s debts?
And why did they threaten Rangers with the prospect of not playing football at all unless they agreed to an unlawful transfer embargo and a carve-up of TV rights among other sanctions to gain SFA membership?
Why did every club not have a whip round to pay our debts?
Why did the SPL not redirect all sponsorship funds to help RFC in their hour of need?
Why did the SPL and SFA crown RFC champions anyway, cos they’re pure more magicer than ever?
Why did they insist on a punishment when all RFC did was break a few rules?
The sense of entitlement just reaks!
So with the SPL clubs having their final vote on reconstrution on April 15th, will ICT and Ross County bring this process to a juddering halt?
Either way, we have a month to let the clubs know how we feel
Dean Shiels was carried off in the first half so I believe that is why the first half ended late and the second half kicked off late and was the last match to finish.
Ecobhoy,
“I would also have thought in that case that McKenzie would – if he hadn’t previously been aware of the SFA position – have called also for an adjournment to discuss the matter with his client. Given the vital importance of this section of the evidence I am sure LNS would have been amenable. However, this didn’t appear to happen because McKenzie accepted the SFA position.” agreed … but I dont think he had ever considered such a perverse interpretation. Thats why it, in McKenzie’s view, needed no checking beforehand. And once Mr Bryson had given his interpretation Mr McKenzie was in no position to argue and neither were the SPL. In this regard, Mr Bryson/the SFA apply the rules. There may be subsequent scope for questioning the competence of this and the legal principles it may violate – but it definitely will not get a re-run of the SPLIC.
“LNS has been told the SFA position which has been confirmed by the SPL, who has brought the case, and it has basically destroyed a major piece of the case. And yet some posters on here seem to think this disaster for the SPL case could be ‘cured’ by LNS providing evidence to the contrary. I don’t know how many times it has to be stated but that is not what LNS is there to do.” agreed again. LNS was there to have a case proved to him … on balance of probability … not to argue against the SFA Head of Registrations/the SPL/anyone else. The terms and scope were in the Notice of Commission and the rules that enabled it. LNS was to hear the case and judge if it had been proved.
“I am not here to defend LNS but it doesn’t help actually understand what has happened by merely throwing emotive jibes at LNS – that will do nothing for Scottish Football and neither will spurious Golden Principle false trails.” agreed again except the ‘Golden Rule’ isn’t a false claim – it is worth pursuing. It won’t get a re-run, (or even a replay at home a week later! 🙂 ) but it should continually be pointed out – not dropped.
Neither should the issue of guilty of 3rd party payments.
If LNS judgement leads him to find the charge 3(f) on ‘third party payments’ as guilty, then where is the same ‘Alternate’ analysis that is used in assessing the ‘non-disclosure’ charges?
With this alternate, he claims that EBTs could have been fully declared (since he proceeds on the basis that these EBTs are allowable tax avoidance measures) and thus disclosure rules would not have been broken and thus no sporting advantage was gained by non-disclosure.
But surely it can be seen that ‘third party payments’ rules would have breached with full disclosure?
Hence, its difficult to see how ‘no unfair sporting advantage’ from non-disclosure can be concluded.
Its a glaring hole in the LNS final judgement.
Thats not to say that will get a replay at home a week later, but surely some acknowledgement of this hole in the logic should be given..
Carl31 (@C4rl31) says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 13:29
Ecobhoy,
“On ‘Sporting Advantage’ I think the concentration should have been on the amount available to pay players through the EBT mechanism. Then there could be many witnesses brought to explain the simple fact that more cash and higher wages, in the main, lets you buy and field better players and also support a larger squad than your competitors.
There could be a counter-argument that results on the field didn’t necessarily reflect an advantage. But at least the argument I believe could be won if done correctly and at the end of the day even if there isn’t a proveable Sporting Advantage it should be enough if the intention was there.”
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Carl 31
No. If thats the only criteria, it fails as a criticism. A club cannot be charged with being able to get more funds together, by allowable means, than other clubs. Thats whats been happening across the board. LNS states that EBTs are allowed due to the current status of the FTT. Thats not, nor can it sensible be argued, as any kind of charge against a club.
The issue is if an allowable cash generating scheme breached rules. Theoretically, raising an extra tenner by avoiding tax in an allowable way could still breach the rules. Its not the amount of money that is the problem – it is gaining an unfair advantage by breaking the rules or concealment of the fact a club is breaking the rules.
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I was actually answering a narrow hypothetical question to me from another poster: ‘What evidence could the SPL have provided to prove sporting advantage occured?’
I am well aware of the LNS position on EBTs and also McKenzie’s position of accepting the FTTT Decision but that wasn’t what I was trying to answer and deal with.
‘Sporting Advantage’ if it took place was through the EBT payments and side contracts not being declared.
That’s why I spelt-out what I saw as constituting ‘Sporting Advantage’ and being aware of the difficulties of proving an advantage took place I added the rider that it didn’t need to actually happen as long as the intention was there.
But I have always been very sceptical that it would be easy to prove the Sporting Advantage ‘charge’ and once the Bryson Bombshell dropped I think it became impossible.
There is definately an agenda amongst sections of the press regards sevco and possible entry into the SPL. I just heard Charlie Mulgrew asked being asked about Sevco on Sky Sports. There should be no reason to ask or discuss this question but they continue to ask it, whilst I wasn’t impressed with Mr Smith’s comments on the matter he was obviously asked his thoughts and so it will go on. They will keep asking and looking for to gain so much alleged support that the mindset will be that the SPL and Scottish Football cannot survive without them. They will become the team that can never be relegated and if that is the case what is the point in a league system where one team must remain regardless.
spanishcelt says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 15:54
The Rangers game was the last game in all scottish divisions to end on Saturday, all other results were in by a good two minutes or more before full time was called at Ibrokes.
……………………………………………………..
I suspect that despite published figures to the contrary, the start of the match had to be delayed to permit entry for Annan’s travelling support, which was doubtless some kind of world record.
Let’s not forget that sporting advantage wasn’t the issue for LNS. The only thing that needed looking at was incorrect registration; yes or no. If yes, then punishment to follow. You cannot make exceptions based on conjecture as to what the consequences were.
Should C Mulgrew be booed for his poor statement today? Mr Desmond also spouted some poor stuff but we see him less than Rod Stewart. Perhaps a chorus of boo’s would inform the club any talk of fast-track will not be tolerated.
HirsutePursuit says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 16:31
If and by the time the UTT rules and if it rules in HMRC’s favour the whole sham will have been exposed for what it was but by then I doubt anyone will care.
Celtic need to ban questions about TRFC from all interviews with their staff. Not hard to do. Talk about Celtic. Nothing else. Statements like the one from Mulgrew are golden nuggets to these obviousley biased reporters. Wonder if they asked any TRFC players their views on Celtic at their press briefing.
Monday March 11th 2013
Raith Rovers face Dunfermline Athletic at Stark’s Park this coming Saturday in the final Fife derby of the season. The match is pay at the gate, and full details of admission prices and other match arrangements will be published later in the week.
Along with the rest of Scottish football the Raith Rovers board has been monitoring the very worrying developments at East End Park. Dunfermline Athletic are, and hopefully always will be, our fiercest sporting rivals…. but they are also our friends, and we would like to offer our friends a helping hand in their hour of need.
We have therefore agreed that, immediately after Saturday’s game, we shall donate part of the gate receipts to the Dunfermline Athletic Steering Group led by Jim Leishman. Stark’s Park’s away (McDermid) Stand can accommodate up to 3,250 fans and Raith Rovers will pay over to Jim’s group the admission money received from the Dunfermline support in excess of 2,000.
Of course we really don’t want our own support to be outnumbered… so this is a call to supporters of both clubs to get themselves, their friends and families along to the derby fixture which we sincerely hope will continue for many years to come.
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says: Monday, March 11, 2013 at 18:25
Should C Mulgrew be booed for his poor statement today? Mr Desmond also spouted some poor stuff but we see him less than Rod Stewart. Perhaps a chorus of boo’s would inform the club any talk of fast-track will not be tolerated.
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No – I take it you are not in favour of free speech.
Mulgrew was expressing a personal view, just as you have done by describing it as a “poor statement”. That seems a fair balance, and not something that it should be subject to public vilification.
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On a lighter note, it is good to see that Raith Rovers seeking to help Dunfermline, and thereby support the value and integrity of local competition.
Raith Rovers face Dunfermline Athletic at Stark’s Park this coming Saturday in the final Fife derby of the season. The match is pay at the gate, and full details of admission prices and other match arrangements will be published later in the week.
Along with the rest of Scottish football the Raith Rovers board has been monitoring the very worrying developments at East End Park. Dunfermline Athletic are, and hopefully always will be, our fiercest sporting rivals…. but they are also our friends, and we would like to offer our friends a helping hand in their hour of need.
We have therefore agreed that, immediately after Saturday’s game, we shall donate part of the gate receipts to the Dunfermline Athletic Steering Group led by Jim Leishman. Stark’s Park’s away (McDermid) Stand can accommodate up to 3,250 fans and Raith Rovers will pay over to Jim’s group the admission money received from the Dunfermline support in excess of 2,000.
Of course we really don’t want our own support to be outnumbered… so this is a call to supporters of both clubs to get themselves, their friends and families along to the derby fixture which we sincerely hope will continue for many years to come.
nowoldandgrumpy says: Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:32
snap – must learn to type quicker 🙁
easyJambo says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:34
EJ, is this an example of those intangible qualities, dignity, humility and compasssion?
maybe there is hope for the sport yet
abcott says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 18:03
Let’s not forget that sporting advantage wasn’t the issue for LNS. The only thing that needed looking at was incorrect registration; yes or no. If yes, then punishment to follow. You cannot make exceptions based on conjecture as to what the consequences were.
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I would suggest that you might care to read the LNS Report as you are seriously mistaken in stating that: ‘sporting advantage wasn’t the issue for LNS’.
It was actually one of the major issues as the undernoted section of the Decision illustrates:
(4) The relevant SPL Rules were designed to promote sporting integrity, by mitigating the
risk of irregular payments to players;
(5) Although the payments in this case were not themselves irregular and were not in
breach of SPL or SFA Rules, the scale and extent of the proven contraventions of the
disclosure rules require a substantial penalty to be imposed;
(6) Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of
the SPL Rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements, nor
did the non-disclosure have the effect that any of the registered players were ineligible
to play, and for this and other reasons no sporting sanction or penalty should be
imposed upon Rangers FC;
Date set for Scottish Premier League vote on shake-up plans
By Alasdair Lamont
BBC Scotland
All 12 Scottish Premier League clubs will vote on league reconstruction on 15 April.
Eleven votes are required for a move to a structure of two top leagues of 12, which would split into three leagues of eight midway through the season.
Ross County chairman Roy MacGregor says he has reservations, especially in terms of what it would mean for the fans.
He said there are a “few issues still to be resolved”.
MacGregor added: “My concerns are for the fans and 80-85% of what’s there I really believe in: the one league body, the redistribution and more competitiveness.
“But I do feel for the fans who’ve been asked to buy a 22-match season ticket.
“It’s short-changing them and I believe that, long term, if that resolution’s not sorted then it could be the end of people buying season tickets.
“The fan is the most important person; it’s not the club or anything else. I do believe the consideration of what the fans are getting is really important.”
MacGregor’s counterpart at St Mirren, Stewart Gilmour, felt the four-and-a-half hour meeting at Hampden was worthwhile, but could not predict if the proposal would be passed.
He told BBC Scotland: “There was good dialogue and differences in opinion. There’s a long way to go, a lot of tidying up to be done.
“I still think the big thing is once the SFL clubs meet. I’m sure they will have their own opinions.
“If you make a decision to change, it’s best to happen right away but whether we get to that in time, I don’t know.”
On leaving the national stadium, Motherwell director Derek Weir did not wish to reveal any details of the discussions that had taken place, but said the plans for league reconstruction are still on track.
Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:28
Celtic need to ban questions about TRFC from all interviews with their staff. Not hard to do. Talk about Celtic. Nothing else. Statements like the one from Mulgrew are golden nuggets to these obviousley biased reporters. Wonder if they asked any TRFC players their views on Celtic at their press briefing.
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Totally agree – a player isn’t there to comment on issues which have nothing to do with the club but the reaction doesn’t need to be a refusal to answer. All they need to practice is a simple statement: ‘I’m here to discuss Celtic and matters relating to any other team are for them to comment on’ with a clear open look at the camera.
You don’t even name the other team or opposition player. Keep it nice and simple and friendly and if they persist then Lennon should have a word in the ear of offending journos. They aren’t out to help Celtic but to stir up agrro whether with another club or between the player and the Celtic support. It is too easy for an unguarded statement to be taken out of context and used to ignite the tinder box.
Charlie Mulgrew @charlie_mulgrew
In my opinion the league is more exciting with old firm games any player in Scotland would agree. I didn’t say they should be let back in
who cares what he did or did not say. He probably just does not want to be bothered by our Neanderthal fans.
This 100m ,the superstore being tripled in size,was it not quite a large store when it first opened and was closed due to ,well sales falling below maybe 100m or so ,how much was made in sales during the heady years of the big EBT players ,obvisouly not enough to prevent some financial shennanigins to be used to prop up the wage bill ,but here we go another spouting from another tentacle of the Sevco Octopus ,are they queuing up to be given their turn to shoot sh?te ,who’s next on the merry go round Mr Traynor ,he is due a turn,how thick or stupid are the Sevco fans to continualy accept these outpourings without questioning them ,the list must be as long as ,well 100million pound coins stood on end,give us all peace like you said Charles and shut the bull factory down and get on with getting your club some credibility ,I suppose it would be easier to fill in a winning lottery ticket.
easyJambo says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:34
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says: Monday, March 11, 2013 at 18:25
The problem is that they are being asked these loaded questions in order to create the headline. From what I understand even CG comments on Sevco being the worst team ever ( before anybody starts I know they are a new team) was not a direct quote of what was actually said. Regardless of Mulgrew or anyone says on the matter they will be hung out to dry. If I was a Celtic player would I like to play a Rangers, likely, however having said that only after the new version have made there way up unaided.
Below is the draft letter that I plan to send to the Chief Executive of my club:
I’m writing to you as Chief Executive of the company in which I hold shares to express my extreme displeasure at the result of the independent tribunal into ‘dual contracts’ conducted by Rangers Football Club. Never has such an overwhelmingly guilty verdict been accompanied with such a lenient sentence.
As a shareholder I’m concerned that the company in which I hold shares has had its share price, and consequently my dividends, affected by at best dubious practices.
As Chief Executive I would like to enquire what Celtic Football Club intend to do to rectify this situation on behalf of their shareholders?
While the club made a statement with regards to the sentence of Lord Nimo Smith’s enquiry in my mind it came nowhere near what the support expected.
I would also like to enquire why Celtic Football Club have not called for a vote of no confidence in the Chief Executives of both the SPL or SFA who have, at virtually every turn, talked down the sport which they are supposed to protect?
I’m also at a loss to understand how Campbell Ogilvie, the President of the SFA, remains in post considering he has been on the executive boards of two clubs; one of which is in the process of liquidation and the other in severe financial distress. In my mind that makes his position untenable.
While I’m a shareholder I am also a season ticket holder of almost twenty years and I must say that I have never felt so uncomfortable, as I currently feel, in attending football games. This is because the sport I love has not been played on a level playing field for the last decade and possibly even longer than that.
Once again the spectre of ‘The Rangers’ being promoted into the SPL is being mooted within the media. This is, to me, utterly unacceptable and I dearly wish that Celtic would make a statement articulating that sporting merit can be the only way for a team to be promoted.
I recently completed a club questionnaire but I noticed no questions were asked regarding the fast tracking of any team into the SPL.
Now I understand that all clubs are anxious with regard to the numbers coming through the turnstiles and that this is being portrayed, by the media, as evidence of a league screaming out for ‘The Rangers’ being fast tracked back to the SPL but perhaps this should be looked at in another way. Perhaps fans of all clubs are simply disgusted at the pandering, rule bending, and indeed rule ignoring that has gone on in the last 12 months to salvage a club from the financial wreckage left by the collapse of Rangers Football Club. If fans think that what they are watching is in anyway rigged they will simply stop attending and for me the final straw will be the re-emergence of a debt free club, which claims to be the same club, that owes the tax payers of this country a minimum of sixteen million pounds.
While I understand that you are busy I would like answers to the questions that I have asked as I feel my financial wellbeing, as a shareholder, has been affected by actions taken by third parties.
justshatered says:
Well done for taking the effort to articulate your sentiments to your club. As reconstruction proposals get ever nearer, Scottish football fans would do well to follow suit, and mobilise like last summer to prevent this charade being allowed to take place.
Make no mistake that the printed press will do their bit to ensure this happens. Witness only today the blind acceptance of 100m turnover pish seeping out of the crevices of the big hoose
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 17:03
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Dean Shiels was carried off in the first half so I believe that is why the first half ended late and the second half kicked off late and was the last match to finish.
Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours.
Asked about the jailing of his former cabinet colleague,(Chris Huhne) Prime Minister David Cameron said:
“It’s a reminder that no-one, however high and mighty, is out of the reach of the justice system.”
He obviously doesn’t know about Sevco/New Rangers.
But then, I’ve heard he is a little out of touch with the grass roots.
Good call Bob, TU from me.
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 21:33
Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours.
——
Bob, here’s the instructions on how to avoid quite so many TDs …
1. Make your point, which may involve some form of potential justification for TRFC doing or being involved in something.
2. End your post by saying something that casts TRFC in a poor light. This need not be relevant to your original point.
One other thing, seeing as I’m aiming for the TD World Record here … you chaps who seem to write the equivalent of a short novel on here on a daily basis – any chance of editing yourselves a little?
Being concise and to the point is a skill to be admired. Also, people will actually read your posts. Imagine you’re writing for a learned journal, but just post the abstract. 😉
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 21:33
“Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours.”
I expect you’ll get more for that post too (as I will mine). After all it doesn’t fit with what seems to be the majority of posters view that every refereeing decision in Scottish Football has always been and will always be pro Rangers.
Some of my Hibs supporting pals are claiming that the weekend’s shocking decision against them was some sort of Masonic Conspiracy.
Maybe it’s just Rangers and Hearts?
It can’t be though, because every Junior game I attend, the hardcore of our support (mostly in their 60’s) always claim that the referee is clearly in the pay of the opposing team.
Who’d be a referee?
I expect Hearts and The Pars could go bust tomorrow and we’d get a post or two about it, then right back to the important matters of how many free tickets are to be given out for the next Sevco match, how many shares have been sold and what utter bullsh*t Charles Green talks.
Although he does, tbf.
Extract below from VB latest piece.
Another reason to keep fingers crossed that administration v.2 is just a matter of time…
===========================
“So Mr Green, where were we?…
Instead of banishing loyal Rangers fans, perhaps you should think about banning the ESPNs of this world. The commentators passing of judgement on Rangers fans, who were only creating a bit of atmosphere at the recent Berwick away tie…”
Hearts and The Pars could go bust tomorrow
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like TRFC and their fans, Hearts and The Pars could pretend it did not happen.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 20:12
Charlie Mulgrew @charlie_mulgrew
In my opinion the league is more exciting with old firm games any player in Scotland would agree. I didn’t say they should be let back in.
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Not until they can beat the likes of Annan, Stirling and Queen of the South added Charlie 🙂
chipsandblog says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 22:39
Hearts and The Pars could go bust tomorrow
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like TRFC and their fans, Hearts and The Pars could pretend it did not happen.
———————
Indeed. Then we could discuss that.
Has mr lunny retired/resigned/been sacked/on holiday/taking ally’s training sessions ???? Someone better tell him he has some pending work in his in tray ……… It’s been there for a wee while, or has it been shredded 🙂
Once again Raith are showing the way in support of one of their own,so lets all join in and support dunfermline in their hour of need.
Steve Conroy suing SFA for unfair dismissal following being dropped as an SPL ref after the Rangers Dunfermilne game in December 2011 (Aluko diving incident)
Brenda – thanks for reminding us of the lack of action.
Have emailed Mr Lunny & Mr Ogilvie …
I am aware of the reporting of the ESPN broadcast of The Rangers and Berwick, and would want clarification that you will be investigating the obvious sectarian singing.
You cannot ignore this.
Sincerely,
Lets hope for a reply….
Captain Haddock @ 23:32
The silence is deafening 🙂
More generous support for Dunfermline, Manchester this time…..
I am only catching up here and I apologise if this has been covered.
I read with interest Auldheids offering that TSFM has his draft re the FIFA “whistleblower” site.
I think given Auldheids previously proven ability as a wordsmith and knowledge of the rules, that this is a worthy idea.
Would it be worth posting the final copy on here or should it remain unpublished to disallow those who would attempt to undermine it from doing exactly that? Forewarned is forearmed and all that.
If it is published. Could we comment on or even ‘thumbs up’ (if the admins can recognise individual thumbs-uppers)?
Could the originators of these comments and/or thumbs up be added to the submission in much the same way as signatories to a petition?
An appeal to the world governing body will carry more weight with 500, 1000, 2000, however many backers.
No?
spanishcelt says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 15:54
goosygoosy says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 11:12
On Sat Annan subbed a player immediately after the game entered the 3 min of extra time. The player walked slowly off the park but not any more slowly than happens with any other extra time sub Maybe 20 -30 secs at most
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Low and behold
The Rangers TV Commentator confidently stated that the Referee “will” add extra time for this time wasting tactic
And he did
He allowed 5 mins of extra time and an unjustified corner to boot
……………………………………………………………………………….
……………………………………………………………………………….
The Rangers game was the last game in all scottish divisions to end on Saturday, all other results were in by a good two minutes or more before full time was called at Ibrokes.
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In fairness, I heard on the BBC radio commentary that the kick-off was slightly delayed. The commentators gave no reason for the delay but it was mentioned half way through the second half. As a result of this. I was fully expecting that the game would finish later than others.
Not defending anyone…….just pointing out what was said.
Whullie says,
I agree that Auldheid/TSFM whistleblower draft should be circulated to our email addresses to allow us all to send a copy, (possibly individualised by anyone if preferred), or even just posted as a blog if emailing is too onerous.
It was commented on as a matter of fact that the games at ibrox always kick off a few minutes later than every other game?…… Think it was DJ that stated this but then he would know the reason why……… Answers on a postcard please 🙂
It must be the ‘massive’ ‘record-breaking’ ‘debt-busting’ crowds 🙂
Brenda says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 01:33
Just to reiterate Brenda. I heard this on the BBC commentary. DJ works (and I use that word advisedly) at Clyde these days?
I was driving at the time so only heard the commentary for the last half hour or so. I have no idea what went on earlier than that.
Whullie @ 01:46
My apologies should have made it clear DJ ( I think it was him or one of his fellow ‘pundits’) said this on Clyde SSB during the sevco v Annan game. 😉
Great gestures in support of the Pars from the Rovers, Cowdenbeath and Alex Ferguson.
Clearly, the major issue is entirely our own fault.
However, it is worth remembering that Rangers FC (IA) were kept on a life support machine by the administrators, against the best interests of the creditors, with the express desire of keeping them in the SPL.
Had the administrators done their job properly the (woefully bad) Pars team would not have been relegated. We may have been facing a very similar problem in the future, but we certainly would not have been facing it this season.
This was compounded by the fix to promote Dundee with no sporting or other rationale for their selection over the Pars.
All of this presided over by our esteemed world class sporting bodies.
I noticed a scan of an article elsewhere (presumably from one of today’s red tops) claiming there is no scouting budget at Ibrox. Is it not reasonable to think that a club who claim the old crash and burn financial strategies of the past are over would be putting plans in place to ensure the best possible value can be obtained from future player recruitment? It makes you wonder how the ‘payback’ all clubs have been threatened with on entry to the top league is going to be achieved with a policy of prudence and wages no more than 33% of turnover. Perhaps though Charles Green will be history by that time and more traditional ways will be to the fore again.
Just reading about The Rangers – Puma deal. So no money up front but commission paid per jersey sold.
Strikes me as one of those “pay as you play” deals clubs sometimes offer to high risk injury prone players or wayward has-beens who are coming to the end of their career.
Puma clearly don’t have a lot of confidence that TRFC are in it for the long haul.
Andrew Woods says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 07:09
Just reading about The Rangers – Puma deal. So no money up front but commission paid per jersey sold.
Strikes me as one of those “pay as you play” deals clubs sometimes offer to high risk injury prone players or wayward has-beens who are coming to the end of their career.
Puma clearly don’t have a lot of confidence that TRFC are in it for the long haul.
================================================================
The fact that the Puma and Blackthorn deals were announced with no financial figures mentioned tell us all we need to know. I’d be amazed if Blackthorn are paying any more than £400-500K.
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 21:33
Dean Shiels was carried off in the first half so I believe that is why the first half ended late and the second half kicked off late and was the last match to finish.
Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours
:………………………………………………………………..
No, the thumbs down from me was for suggesting the only game in scotland with a player injured long enough to cause 2 extra minutes being added to the official 3 minutes was at Ibrokes, where T Rangers just happened to be losing.
luoanlai says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 02:17
26 0 Rate This
Great gestures in support of the Pars from the Rovers, Cowdenbeath and Alex Ferguson …
————–
Aye, inspirational to see such support.
Was not aware of the series of articles in The Mail on Sunday on GM. Andrew Picken seems to know his stuff.
SPL Fans United have launched an e-petition whereby supporters can ask SPL clubs to appeal the LNS ruling. When I try to access this I’m getting a message about insufficient bandwith to support the site. Is anyone else having this problem?
At the risk of repeating what I posted a while back, it has become obvious throughout this whole saga that the only force pushing for the honest, fair application of the rules in our sport is us, the supporters. That is why TRFC were not admitted straight back in the SPL. While the authorities will be content with apathy and resignation, they also want our money. If the fans can get organised to unite and speak with a powerful voice we will continue to make a difference. They need to understand loud and clear what their customers want, especially now with season ticket renewals imminent.
Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 08:49
I think it is actually very close to home and is SDM Mk 1.
First cousins and interlinked in ways we don’t even know yet.
This whole story is and was never about football but about egos in business and (some of) the Scottish Financial Mafia and how they helped each other.
Football just allowed some of them to increase their public profiles cheaply.
Its a story still waiting to be pieced together.
finloch says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 09:10
This whole story is and was never about football but about egos in business and (some of) the Scottish Financial Mafia and how they helped each other.
Its a story still waiting to be pieced together.
==========================================
If we can get a journalist up here that would do that.
These things (SDM and Masterton) are only being reported now because they made a mess of things. If they were still in the positions of prominence they once had the media would be quiet regardless of the evidence.
Charlie Mulgrew @charlie_mulgrew
In my opinion the league is more exciting with old firm games any player in Scotland would agree. I didn’t say they should be let back in
I see Charlie uses the same definition of Scotland as Alex Smith.
Is anyone else slightly sceptical at the length of time the debate on restructure is actually taking (between the clubs I mean). “OK guys we’re here for the most important thing in Football right now (following that other unfortunate episode that we told you we’d fix for you), Show of hands for an adjournment and we’ll see you all again next month. Motion carried!”
Oh, and Danish
Is this an SDM Mark II scenario?
No its an SDM financier on very thin ice scenario.
Other comments from those who attended last night’s meeting
How much are we due – Don’t know
When do we have to pay HMRC by – Don’t know
How can fans contribute financially – Don’t know
Even Gavin Masterton doesn’t know the state of the finances
£450,000 due to trade creditors
Wage bill of £95,000 a month plus arrears to be paid
From the letter:
£12.2M Loan from Lloyds – attempt to be made to negotiate a write off of as much as possible.
Share issue unlikely to raise anything like the £500,000 suggested.
TPC looking to get at least 50% of the shares and control of the club
Looking for a 30 year lease on East End Park
60% of amounts due to Masterton family to be written off
Remainder to be paid by “exceptional revenue” or written off in 2043 if not paid off before then
With the renewal of ST’s in the offing, and perhaps also the forthcoming SFA sponsored games at Hampden,
we’ll soon learn what kind of balls we’ll be using next season –
if any at all.
Last years were pretty good alright
Here’s hoping for the same again – if not better.
Ideally, of course, what’s needed is balls of steel –
to deal
wi’ the Hampden Four
an’ wi’ the Club that isnae real.
Balls, made in Scotland – fae girders!
Give it time.
Balls of steel.
Who let the dog out?
I know I shouldn’t but I really do get a nice sense of enjoyment when I see the likes of Murray and Masterton being put through the mill. I know they will have enough money salted away to see them comfortably through the remains of their life so financially they will not suffer much, but the loss of prestige is probably more damaging to them than any actual cash loss.
Murray’s fall, from being the WATP’s equivalent of Scottish royalty to the villain of the piece, is obviously the most enjoyable but it is heartening to now see the rest of the gang being brought to book.
Dominoes anyone 😀
What goes around,comes around.
To those who have caused long-lasting and grievous damage to our game their narcissistic pride has been irretrievably damaged.
The conversation as to the future of the game is now out there,and I foresee massive fan reaction to the ills of the game,
The next months will be very telling.Here we go again
This summer is going to be like the second leg of a titanic tussle.
The fans won the first leg and I’d like to think following all the nonsense that the governing bodies have tried to foist upon us over the last 12 months that our resolve will be greater still for the second leg.
The fans have the financial clout as was shown last June, and another victory will be secured as long as we withold our season ticket money long enough for it to be confirmed that The Rangers will be in the league they should be next season.
Captain Haddock says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 01:13
Whullie says,
I agree that Auldheid/TSFM whistleblower draft should be circulated to our email addresses to allow us all to send a copy, (possibly individualised by anyone if preferred), or even just posted as a blog if emailing is too onerous.
=================================
The latter is the plan with encouragement to do as you suggest, preferably individualised.
Can Football Supporters Challenge Decisions of Football Bodies?
We are not convinced that a similar case in the future cannot be succesful [sic], at least, if it could be pleaded under different headings and legal arguments. We are of the view that if football supporters can demonstrate prejudice of economic and other interests against them, or if the shareholders of the club [particularly minority shareholders] are able to establish such prejudice, the outcome of a similar complaint may be different.
We conclude, therefore, that those advising football supporters, must ensure that the legal basis of the case has merits and that the rights that have been violated, deserve protection under European Law. The European Court of Justice has repeatedly stated, in the past, that rules of sporting governing bodies that affect European competition law, could be outlawed if such competition laws have been violated.
‘I think it is actually very close to home and is SDM Mk 1.
First cousins and interlinked in ways we don’t even know yet.
This whole story is and was never about football but about egos in business and (some of) the Scottish Financial Mafia and how they helped each other.
Football just allowed some of them to increase their public profiles cheaply.
Its a story still waiting to be pieced together’
It’s a bit like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon!! As someone with first hand experience of two of the companies mentioned, SDG Holdings and SDG Caledonia, it doesn’t take a huge amount of digging to reveal that they are both controlled by Kevin McCabe, former chairman of Sheffield United. Let me think…….wasn’t there some link between him and the current CEO of TRFC????
luoanlai says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 02:17
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However, it is worth remembering that Rangers FC (IA) were kept on a life support machine by the administrators, against the best interests of the creditors, with the express desire of keeping them in the SPL.
========================
I agree, and said so at the time.
In a fair and honest system Dunfermline would not have been relegated, there would have been no relegation last season and Ross County would have joined the SPL to make up the 12.
A CVA was impossible, liquidation was inevitable the assets and business should have been broken up in the interests of the creditors.
Saving the company was never a possibility, serving the creditors was never a factor. Keeping A Rangers (as Craig Whyte called it) was always the intention. Getting that team into the SPL and actually better off financially than the failed club was the expectation, at the expense of the creditors, the uk taxpayer and Scottish football.
It wasn’t personal though, Dunfermline just got shafted a lot more than others because of the position they were in. It could have been anyone.
Brenda, still no movement from the lesser blazered Lunny , either on the Berwick “community sing song ” or as somebody else intimated the post admin v’s Killie game, however I think I’ve discovered his secret he only deals with the TRFC business on the 32nd of every month.
TSFM – remember you were asking for ideas on how to put monies donated to this site to best use?
May I suggest a legal challange:
hangerhead says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 12:41
A bit off topic and I know I really shouldn’t but here goes. Last night I had the stupidity to listen to SSB. I can hear the sighs and groans already. Anyhoos, as the show is promoted as Scotland’s only week day phone in for football fans why do the pundits all have views that differ from 96% of Scottish football fans, not counting TRFC fans of course. I’m getting the 96% from last years massive online poll and I’m assuming the voters still hold the same views. The show is an absolute disgrace. Derek Johnstone defends TRFC to the nth degree of ridiculousness. I believe the only way to balance the show when DJ appears would be Tommy from Shettleston appearing as co pundit. But who do the producers use as DJs sidekick last night? Yes Hugh Keevins.
Hugh’s venom for all things Celtic at the moment seems to be escalating exponentially as the days of his barring from Celtic park mount. Sorry for using Celtic as an example here as this blog is about all Scottish clubs, I would be equally disgusted with this man if he showed contempt for any club but it just so happens to be Celtic. I know of two people who are barred from Scottish football grounds, one of them attacked a football manager at tynecastle and the other is Hugh Keevins. Kind of a sums it all up.
Anyway, why is this show allowed to be so bad? Why do the producers of this show not have a clear out and aim for a more balanced team.? As Scotland’s only week day phone in surely we deserve better.
On the subject of monitoring Scottish Football :
I’ve just been reading the thoughts of John Fleming, the referee supervisor, on the Hibs goal not given. He reckons goal-line technology would be too expensive:
” Would Scottish clubs invest in this technology to the detriment of youth
develpment ? I don’t think so “.
Why are those the options ? Would they invest to the detriment of the bloated layers of bureaucracy and administration ? A corpulent system where the head honcho collects his wages while admitting he is unable to do the job.
” Fleming pointed out Hibs had benefited from a similar blunder against
Motherwell this season “. ( Hibs won 4-0 ).
Is that the defence ? ” My refs were abysmal in that game as well so, swings and roundabouts, eh ? End of the day, you know “.
John Fleming also advocates the use of Europa League-style goal-line officials.
” Don’t waste your money on new fangled technology. I know we said four officials would be enough, but if you upgrade to the 6.0 system you get true peace of mind* “.
( * T&C’s apply )
I’m sorry for being flippant, but to me this epitomises the arrogant, parasitical, maggot-infested coterie who purport to run and legislate our game.
And at times I despair…
(Help us, Obi-Wan-Auldheid, you may be our only hope).
bigsausagefingers says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 14:10
1 0 Rate This
A bit off topic and I know I really shouldn’t but here goes. Last night I had the stupidity to listen to SSB. I can hear the sighs and groans already. Anyhoos, as the show is promoted as Scotland’s only week day phone in for football fans why do the pundits all have views that differ from 96% of Scottish football fans, not counting TRFC fans of course. I’m getting the 96% from last years massive online poll and I’m assuming the voters still hold the same views. The show is an absolute disgrace. Derek Johnstone defends TRFC to the nth degree of ridiculousness …
————-
I usually give the podcast a listen. You do get the odd caller who speaks sense. Last night’s was like an unofficial Ibrox podcast though. Less objectivity than usual. You got the impression most of the hosts were wearing black armbands to mark ‘oor worst defeat since Berwick 1967’. A summary of recent programmes could read: Staunch defence of McCoist, everybody wants Rangers back in the SPL, debt free, same club, totally innocent as affirmed by Mr Justice Cocklecarrot and the FTTT, unbroken history, fantastic support, Green is right, Green is wrong – they’re worse than the worst-ever team – so it cannae be Ally’s fault, players don’t deserve the jersey, we are not worthy. Celtic hugely unachieving.
tomtomaswell says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 15:37
Who was Bryson there on behalf of?
———————————————————————————-
Good Question 🙂
1) A witness for the SPL
2) A witness for Rangers
3) Representing the SFA – but would that prejudice the SFA appellate function
But I wonder who called him which might not provide the same answer as to the the choices above.
This might cheer up Goosey, The Scottish parliament petitions committee has invited Lord Gill to give evidence on the petition calling for the creation of a Judge’s Register of Interests!
On the subject of Rangers gaining a sporting advantage or not…
Rangers were charged with fielding a number of ineligible players after 23rd May 2005 – however, this charge was dropped by the SPL and its “prosecutor” Mr McKenzie.
Rangers were never charged with gaining a sporting advantage by failing to fully disclose players’ contracts. The early SPL rules did not state that failure to disclose would result in the relevant players being deemed ineligible. That rule did not apply until 2005.
The guilty verdict they delivered was simply for failing to disclose all details of players contracts. The sanction – a fine – was deemed to be appropriate because the commission did not see anything in the rules or in the particular circumstances, that suggested a sporting sanction would be appropriate for a non-sporting offence. No evidence was provided by the SPL “prosecutor” to suggest that non-disclosure of parts of a player’s contract gave rise to any sporting advantage.
As it stands, the payments that were not disclosed are perfectly legal; therefore, if the affected players were not ineligible, it seems obvious that no sporting advantage was gained.
In the absence of a guilty verdict in the BTC, the SPL commission was certainly within its rights to apply a non-sporting sanction for non-disclosure prior to 2005. In fact, it is difficult to see how a sporting sanction could be applied.
The idea that LNS came to a perverse decision in relation to the £250k fine is simply sucking the lifeblood from this blog. I think the question over whether or not Rangers gained a sporting advantage is totally missing the point.
Let me explain.
In considering a potential Conflict of Interest, Lord Hodge has decided to await the result of the Insolvency Practitioners Association’s report on the conduct of Duff & Phelps in their administration of Rangers Football Club plc. I believe this is right and proper. Until he knows the outcome of the IPA’s investigation, Lord Hodge does not necessarily know all of the relevant facts, so cannot safely deliver a verdict and (if necessary) an appropriate sanction.
BDO, in turn, are unlikely to make any financial demands on the new Rangers, until Lord Hodge has made his ruling. For BDO the potentially, to claim that rangers’ assets were sold under value is much greater if the administrators are found to have had a conflict of interest.
If the SPL had been considering “sporting advantage” as part of charges of which they were found guilty- or even as an aggravating factor – the commission could not have begun before the UTT had completed its work and published its findings. Since the SPL decided to push ahead with the commission and have accepted the result of the FTT(T) (without the possibility that it could be overturned) we have to believe that the SPL did not – and never intended to – prove that Rangers gained a sporting advantage by failing to fully disclose its players’ contracts.
Pressing ahead with the LNS commission before the UTT has completely settled the legitimacy of Rangers’ EBT scheme, effectively ensured Rangers sporting achievements prior to 2005 would not be adjusted by this commission.
The point we need to focus on is not the correctness (or otherwise) of a £250k fine for non-disclosure. This sanction is demonstrably fair as far as I am concerned. There is no legitimate argument that I am aware of suggesting that the SPL rules – as they were written prior to May 2005 – demanded a sporting punishment for a non-sporting offence.
Non-disclosure only BECAME a sporting offence when contract disclosure became a condition of player eligibility in 2005. Therefore, I believe the only sporting sanctions the commission could ever have applied were in relation to the specific charge of fielding ineligible players after 23rd May of that year.
The commission (wrongly in my view) took this rule to take registration & eligibility to mean the same thing. They (wrongly in my view) took the view that improper player registration would not affect eligibility retrospectively.
If this site is to seek focus in relation to the commission, in my view we need to focus on:
1. Why the artificial fusion of registration and eligibility was left to go unchallenged.
2. Why the SPL – despite ostensibly laying the charges – did not provide sufficient effort to prove to the commission, that players whose contracts were not fully disclosed, were ineligible in accordance with the rules as they have existed from May 2005.
Some questions from a piece on the Rangers website;
What was the real reason that the SPL clubs en masse said no to newco?
Why did the SPL not hand over the prize money Rangers won last season?
Why did the SPL and SFA demand that newco pay oldco’s debts?
And why did they threaten Rangers with the prospect of not playing football at all unless they agreed to an unlawful transfer embargo and a carve-up of TV rights among other sanctions to gain SFA membership?
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/opinion/item/3339-questions-remain
Jawdropping once again! May as well ask;
Why did every club not have a whip round to pay our debts?
Why did the SPL not redirect all sponsorship funds to help RFC in their hour of need?
Why did the SPL and SFA crown RFC champions anyway, cos they’re pure more magicer than ever?
Why did they insist on a punishment when all RFC did was break a few rules?
The sense of entitlement just reaks!
So with the SPL clubs having their final vote on reconstrution on April 15th, will ICT and Ross County bring this process to a juddering halt?
Either way, we have a month to let the clubs know how we feel
Dean Shiels was carried off in the first half so I believe that is why the first half ended late and the second half kicked off late and was the last match to finish.
Ecobhoy,
“I would also have thought in that case that McKenzie would – if he hadn’t previously been aware of the SFA position – have called also for an adjournment to discuss the matter with his client. Given the vital importance of this section of the evidence I am sure LNS would have been amenable. However, this didn’t appear to happen because McKenzie accepted the SFA position.”
agreed … but I dont think he had ever considered such a perverse interpretation. Thats why it, in McKenzie’s view, needed no checking beforehand. And once Mr Bryson had given his interpretation Mr McKenzie was in no position to argue and neither were the SPL. In this regard, Mr Bryson/the SFA apply the rules. There may be subsequent scope for questioning the competence of this and the legal principles it may violate – but it definitely will not get a re-run of the SPLIC.
“LNS has been told the SFA position which has been confirmed by the SPL, who has brought the case, and it has basically destroyed a major piece of the case. And yet some posters on here seem to think this disaster for the SPL case could be ‘cured’ by LNS providing evidence to the contrary. I don’t know how many times it has to be stated but that is not what LNS is there to do.”
agreed again. LNS was there to have a case proved to him … on balance of probability … not to argue against the SFA Head of Registrations/the SPL/anyone else. The terms and scope were in the Notice of Commission and the rules that enabled it. LNS was to hear the case and judge if it had been proved.
“I am not here to defend LNS but it doesn’t help actually understand what has happened by merely throwing emotive jibes at LNS – that will do nothing for Scottish Football and neither will spurious Golden Principle false trails.”
agreed again except the ‘Golden Rule’ isn’t a false claim – it is worth pursuing. It won’t get a re-run, (or even a replay at home a week later! 🙂 ) but it should continually be pointed out – not dropped.
Neither should the issue of guilty of 3rd party payments.
If LNS judgement leads him to find the charge 3(f) on ‘third party payments’ as guilty, then where is the same ‘Alternate’ analysis that is used in assessing the ‘non-disclosure’ charges?
With this alternate, he claims that EBTs could have been fully declared (since he proceeds on the basis that these EBTs are allowable tax avoidance measures) and thus disclosure rules would not have been broken and thus no sporting advantage was gained by non-disclosure.
But surely it can be seen that ‘third party payments’ rules would have breached with full disclosure?
Hence, its difficult to see how ‘no unfair sporting advantage’ from non-disclosure can be concluded.
Its a glaring hole in the LNS final judgement.
Thats not to say that will get a replay at home a week later, but surely some acknowledgement of this hole in the logic should be given..
Carl31 (@C4rl31) says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 13:29
Ecobhoy,
“On ‘Sporting Advantage’ I think the concentration should have been on the amount available to pay players through the EBT mechanism. Then there could be many witnesses brought to explain the simple fact that more cash and higher wages, in the main, lets you buy and field better players and also support a larger squad than your competitors.
There could be a counter-argument that results on the field didn’t necessarily reflect an advantage. But at least the argument I believe could be won if done correctly and at the end of the day even if there isn’t a proveable Sporting Advantage it should be enough if the intention was there.”
———————————————————————————————————
Carl 31
No. If thats the only criteria, it fails as a criticism. A club cannot be charged with being able to get more funds together, by allowable means, than other clubs. Thats whats been happening across the board. LNS states that EBTs are allowed due to the current status of the FTT. Thats not, nor can it sensible be argued, as any kind of charge against a club.
The issue is if an allowable cash generating scheme breached rules. Theoretically, raising an extra tenner by avoiding tax in an allowable way could still breach the rules. Its not the amount of money that is the problem – it is gaining an unfair advantage by breaking the rules or concealment of the fact a club is breaking the rules.
————————————————————————————————
I was actually answering a narrow hypothetical question to me from another poster: ‘What evidence could the SPL have provided to prove sporting advantage occured?’
I am well aware of the LNS position on EBTs and also McKenzie’s position of accepting the FTTT Decision but that wasn’t what I was trying to answer and deal with.
‘Sporting Advantage’ if it took place was through the EBT payments and side contracts not being declared.
That’s why I spelt-out what I saw as constituting ‘Sporting Advantage’ and being aware of the difficulties of proving an advantage took place I added the rider that it didn’t need to actually happen as long as the intention was there.
But I have always been very sceptical that it would be easy to prove the Sporting Advantage ‘charge’ and once the Bryson Bombshell dropped I think it became impossible.
There is definately an agenda amongst sections of the press regards sevco and possible entry into the SPL. I just heard Charlie Mulgrew asked being asked about Sevco on Sky Sports. There should be no reason to ask or discuss this question but they continue to ask it, whilst I wasn’t impressed with Mr Smith’s comments on the matter he was obviously asked his thoughts and so it will go on. They will keep asking and looking for to gain so much alleged support that the mindset will be that the SPL and Scottish Football cannot survive without them. They will become the team that can never be relegated and if that is the case what is the point in a league system where one team must remain regardless.
spanishcelt says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 15:54
The Rangers game was the last game in all scottish divisions to end on Saturday, all other results were in by a good two minutes or more before full time was called at Ibrokes.
……………………………………………………..
I suspect that despite published figures to the contrary, the start of the match had to be delayed to permit entry for Annan’s travelling support, which was doubtless some kind of world record.
Let’s not forget that sporting advantage wasn’t the issue for LNS. The only thing that needed looking at was incorrect registration; yes or no. If yes, then punishment to follow. You cannot make exceptions based on conjecture as to what the consequences were.
Should C Mulgrew be booed for his poor statement today? Mr Desmond also spouted some poor stuff but we see him less than Rod Stewart. Perhaps a chorus of boo’s would inform the club any talk of fast-track will not be tolerated.
HirsutePursuit says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 16:31
If and by the time the UTT rules and if it rules in HMRC’s favour the whole sham will have been exposed for what it was but by then I doubt anyone will care.
Celtic need to ban questions about TRFC from all interviews with their staff. Not hard to do. Talk about Celtic. Nothing else. Statements like the one from Mulgrew are golden nuggets to these obviousley biased reporters. Wonder if they asked any TRFC players their views on Celtic at their press briefing.
The correct way to make friends
http://www.raithrovers.net/8024/rovers-to-help-the-pars-off-the-pitch.htm
Rovers to Help The Pars….off the pitch!!
Monday March 11th 2013
Raith Rovers face Dunfermline Athletic at Stark’s Park this coming Saturday in the final Fife derby of the season. The match is pay at the gate, and full details of admission prices and other match arrangements will be published later in the week.
Along with the rest of Scottish football the Raith Rovers board has been monitoring the very worrying developments at East End Park. Dunfermline Athletic are, and hopefully always will be, our fiercest sporting rivals…. but they are also our friends, and we would like to offer our friends a helping hand in their hour of need.
We have therefore agreed that, immediately after Saturday’s game, we shall donate part of the gate receipts to the Dunfermline Athletic Steering Group led by Jim Leishman. Stark’s Park’s away (McDermid) Stand can accommodate up to 3,250 fans and Raith Rovers will pay over to Jim’s group the admission money received from the Dunfermline support in excess of 2,000.
Of course we really don’t want our own support to be outnumbered… so this is a call to supporters of both clubs to get themselves, their friends and families along to the derby fixture which we sincerely hope will continue for many years to come.
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says: Monday, March 11, 2013 at 18:25
Should C Mulgrew be booed for his poor statement today? Mr Desmond also spouted some poor stuff but we see him less than Rod Stewart. Perhaps a chorus of boo’s would inform the club any talk of fast-track will not be tolerated.
=============================
No – I take it you are not in favour of free speech.
Mulgrew was expressing a personal view, just as you have done by describing it as a “poor statement”. That seems a fair balance, and not something that it should be subject to public vilification.
============================
On a lighter note, it is good to see that Raith Rovers seeking to help Dunfermline, and thereby support the value and integrity of local competition.
http://www.raithrovers.net/8024/rovers-to-help-the-pars-off-the-pitch.htm
Raith Rovers face Dunfermline Athletic at Stark’s Park this coming Saturday in the final Fife derby of the season. The match is pay at the gate, and full details of admission prices and other match arrangements will be published later in the week.
Along with the rest of Scottish football the Raith Rovers board has been monitoring the very worrying developments at East End Park. Dunfermline Athletic are, and hopefully always will be, our fiercest sporting rivals…. but they are also our friends, and we would like to offer our friends a helping hand in their hour of need.
We have therefore agreed that, immediately after Saturday’s game, we shall donate part of the gate receipts to the Dunfermline Athletic Steering Group led by Jim Leishman. Stark’s Park’s away (McDermid) Stand can accommodate up to 3,250 fans and Raith Rovers will pay over to Jim’s group the admission money received from the Dunfermline support in excess of 2,000.
Of course we really don’t want our own support to be outnumbered… so this is a call to supporters of both clubs to get themselves, their friends and families along to the derby fixture which we sincerely hope will continue for many years to come.
nowoldandgrumpy says: Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:32
snap – must learn to type quicker 🙁
easyJambo says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:34
EJ, is this an example of those intangible qualities, dignity, humility and compasssion?
maybe there is hope for the sport yet
abcott says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 18:03
Let’s not forget that sporting advantage wasn’t the issue for LNS. The only thing that needed looking at was incorrect registration; yes or no. If yes, then punishment to follow. You cannot make exceptions based on conjecture as to what the consequences were.
—————————————————————————————————–
I would suggest that you might care to read the LNS Report as you are seriously mistaken in stating that: ‘sporting advantage wasn’t the issue for LNS’.
It was actually one of the major issues as the undernoted section of the Decision illustrates:
(4) The relevant SPL Rules were designed to promote sporting integrity, by mitigating the
risk of irregular payments to players;
(5) Although the payments in this case were not themselves irregular and were not in
breach of SPL or SFA Rules, the scale and extent of the proven contraventions of the
disclosure rules require a substantial penalty to be imposed;
(6) Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of
the SPL Rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements, nor
did the non-disclosure have the effect that any of the registered players were ineligible
to play, and for this and other reasons no sporting sanction or penalty should be
imposed upon Rangers FC;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21749499?utm_source=BBC&utm_medium=twitter
Date set for Scottish Premier League vote on shake-up plans
By Alasdair Lamont
BBC Scotland
All 12 Scottish Premier League clubs will vote on league reconstruction on 15 April.
Eleven votes are required for a move to a structure of two top leagues of 12, which would split into three leagues of eight midway through the season.
Ross County chairman Roy MacGregor says he has reservations, especially in terms of what it would mean for the fans.
He said there are a “few issues still to be resolved”.
MacGregor added: “My concerns are for the fans and 80-85% of what’s there I really believe in: the one league body, the redistribution and more competitiveness.
“But I do feel for the fans who’ve been asked to buy a 22-match season ticket.
“It’s short-changing them and I believe that, long term, if that resolution’s not sorted then it could be the end of people buying season tickets.
“The fan is the most important person; it’s not the club or anything else. I do believe the consideration of what the fans are getting is really important.”
MacGregor’s counterpart at St Mirren, Stewart Gilmour, felt the four-and-a-half hour meeting at Hampden was worthwhile, but could not predict if the proposal would be passed.
He told BBC Scotland: “There was good dialogue and differences in opinion. There’s a long way to go, a lot of tidying up to be done.
“I still think the big thing is once the SFL clubs meet. I’m sure they will have their own opinions.
“If you make a decision to change, it’s best to happen right away but whether we get to that in time, I don’t know.”
On leaving the national stadium, Motherwell director Derek Weir did not wish to reveal any details of the discussions that had taken place, but said the plans for league reconstruction are still on track.
Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:28
Celtic need to ban questions about TRFC from all interviews with their staff. Not hard to do. Talk about Celtic. Nothing else. Statements like the one from Mulgrew are golden nuggets to these obviousley biased reporters. Wonder if they asked any TRFC players their views on Celtic at their press briefing.
———————————————————————————————–
Totally agree – a player isn’t there to comment on issues which have nothing to do with the club but the reaction doesn’t need to be a refusal to answer. All they need to practice is a simple statement: ‘I’m here to discuss Celtic and matters relating to any other team are for them to comment on’ with a clear open look at the camera.
You don’t even name the other team or opposition player. Keep it nice and simple and friendly and if they persist then Lennon should have a word in the ear of offending journos. They aren’t out to help Celtic but to stir up agrro whether with another club or between the player and the Celtic support. It is too easy for an unguarded statement to be taken out of context and used to ignite the tinder box.
Charlie Mulgrew @charlie_mulgrew
In my opinion the league is more exciting with old firm games any player in Scotland would agree. I didn’t say they should be let back in
who cares what he did or did not say. He probably just does not want to be bothered by our Neanderthal fans.
This 100m ,the superstore being tripled in size,was it not quite a large store when it first opened and was closed due to ,well sales falling below maybe 100m or so ,how much was made in sales during the heady years of the big EBT players ,obvisouly not enough to prevent some financial shennanigins to be used to prop up the wage bill ,but here we go another spouting from another tentacle of the Sevco Octopus ,are they queuing up to be given their turn to shoot sh?te ,who’s next on the merry go round Mr Traynor ,he is due a turn,how thick or stupid are the Sevco fans to continualy accept these outpourings without questioning them ,the list must be as long as ,well 100million pound coins stood on end,give us all peace like you said Charles and shut the bull factory down and get on with getting your club some credibility ,I suppose it would be easier to fill in a winning lottery ticket.
easyJambo says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 19:34
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says: Monday, March 11, 2013 at 18:25
The problem is that they are being asked these loaded questions in order to create the headline. From what I understand even CG comments on Sevco being the worst team ever ( before anybody starts I know they are a new team) was not a direct quote of what was actually said. Regardless of Mulgrew or anyone says on the matter they will be hung out to dry. If I was a Celtic player would I like to play a Rangers, likely, however having said that only after the new version have made there way up unaided.
Below is the draft letter that I plan to send to the Chief Executive of my club:
I’m writing to you as Chief Executive of the company in which I hold shares to express my extreme displeasure at the result of the independent tribunal into ‘dual contracts’ conducted by Rangers Football Club. Never has such an overwhelmingly guilty verdict been accompanied with such a lenient sentence.
As a shareholder I’m concerned that the company in which I hold shares has had its share price, and consequently my dividends, affected by at best dubious practices.
As Chief Executive I would like to enquire what Celtic Football Club intend to do to rectify this situation on behalf of their shareholders?
While the club made a statement with regards to the sentence of Lord Nimo Smith’s enquiry in my mind it came nowhere near what the support expected.
I would also like to enquire why Celtic Football Club have not called for a vote of no confidence in the Chief Executives of both the SPL or SFA who have, at virtually every turn, talked down the sport which they are supposed to protect?
I’m also at a loss to understand how Campbell Ogilvie, the President of the SFA, remains in post considering he has been on the executive boards of two clubs; one of which is in the process of liquidation and the other in severe financial distress. In my mind that makes his position untenable.
While I’m a shareholder I am also a season ticket holder of almost twenty years and I must say that I have never felt so uncomfortable, as I currently feel, in attending football games. This is because the sport I love has not been played on a level playing field for the last decade and possibly even longer than that.
Once again the spectre of ‘The Rangers’ being promoted into the SPL is being mooted within the media. This is, to me, utterly unacceptable and I dearly wish that Celtic would make a statement articulating that sporting merit can be the only way for a team to be promoted.
I recently completed a club questionnaire but I noticed no questions were asked regarding the fast tracking of any team into the SPL.
Now I understand that all clubs are anxious with regard to the numbers coming through the turnstiles and that this is being portrayed, by the media, as evidence of a league screaming out for ‘The Rangers’ being fast tracked back to the SPL but perhaps this should be looked at in another way. Perhaps fans of all clubs are simply disgusted at the pandering, rule bending, and indeed rule ignoring that has gone on in the last 12 months to salvage a club from the financial wreckage left by the collapse of Rangers Football Club. If fans think that what they are watching is in anyway rigged they will simply stop attending and for me the final straw will be the re-emergence of a debt free club, which claims to be the same club, that owes the tax payers of this country a minimum of sixteen million pounds.
While I understand that you are busy I would like answers to the questions that I have asked as I feel my financial wellbeing, as a shareholder, has been affected by actions taken by third parties.
justshatered says:
Well done for taking the effort to articulate your sentiments to your club. As reconstruction proposals get ever nearer, Scottish football fans would do well to follow suit, and mobilise like last summer to prevent this charade being allowed to take place.
Make no mistake that the printed press will do their bit to ensure this happens. Witness only today the blind acceptance of 100m turnover pish seeping out of the crevices of the big hoose
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 17:03
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7
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Dean Shiels was carried off in the first half so I believe that is why the first half ended late and the second half kicked off late and was the last match to finish.
Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours.
Asked about the jailing of his former cabinet colleague,(Chris Huhne) Prime Minister David Cameron said:
“It’s a reminder that no-one, however high and mighty, is out of the reach of the justice system.”
He obviously doesn’t know about Sevco/New Rangers.
But then, I’ve heard he is a little out of touch with the grass roots.
Good call Bob, TU from me.
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 21:33
Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours.
——
Bob, here’s the instructions on how to avoid quite so many TDs …
1. Make your point, which may involve some form of potential justification for TRFC doing or being involved in something.
2. End your post by saying something that casts TRFC in a poor light. This need not be relevant to your original point.
One other thing, seeing as I’m aiming for the TD World Record here … you chaps who seem to write the equivalent of a short novel on here on a daily basis – any chance of editing yourselves a little?
Being concise and to the point is a skill to be admired. Also, people will actually read your posts. Imagine you’re writing for a learned journal, but just post the abstract. 😉
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 21:33
“Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours.”
I expect you’ll get more for that post too (as I will mine). After all it doesn’t fit with what seems to be the majority of posters view that every refereeing decision in Scottish Football has always been and will always be pro Rangers.
Some of my Hibs supporting pals are claiming that the weekend’s shocking decision against them was some sort of Masonic Conspiracy.
Maybe it’s just Rangers and Hearts?
It can’t be though, because every Junior game I attend, the hardcore of our support (mostly in their 60’s) always claim that the referee is clearly in the pay of the opposing team.
Who’d be a referee?
I expect Hearts and The Pars could go bust tomorrow and we’d get a post or two about it, then right back to the important matters of how many free tickets are to be given out for the next Sevco match, how many shares have been sold and what utter bullsh*t Charles Green talks.
Although he does, tbf.
Extract below from VB latest piece.
Another reason to keep fingers crossed that administration v.2 is just a matter of time…
===========================
“So Mr Green, where were we?…
Instead of banishing loyal Rangers fans, perhaps you should think about banning the ESPNs of this world. The commentators passing of judgement on Rangers fans, who were only creating a bit of atmosphere at the recent Berwick away tie…”
Hearts and The Pars could go bust tomorrow
——————————————————–
like TRFC and their fans, Hearts and The Pars could pretend it did not happen.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 20:12
Charlie Mulgrew @charlie_mulgrew
In my opinion the league is more exciting with old firm games any player in Scotland would agree. I didn’t say they should be let back in.
————————————————————————————————————
Not until they can beat the likes of Annan, Stirling and Queen of the South added Charlie 🙂
chipsandblog says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 22:39
Hearts and The Pars could go bust tomorrow
——————————————————–
like TRFC and their fans, Hearts and The Pars could pretend it did not happen.
———————
Indeed. Then we could discuss that.
Has mr lunny retired/resigned/been sacked/on holiday/taking ally’s training sessions ???? Someone better tell him he has some pending work in his in tray ……… It’s been there for a wee while, or has it been shredded 🙂
Once again Raith are showing the way in support of one of their own,so lets all join in and support dunfermline in their hour of need.
Steve Conroy suing SFA for unfair dismissal following being dropped as an SPL ref after the Rangers Dunfermilne game in December 2011 (Aluko diving incident)
http://www.scotzine.com/2013/03/former-referee-steve-conroy-sues-scottish-fa-for-unfair-dismissal/
Brenda – thanks for reminding us of the lack of action.
Have emailed Mr Lunny & Mr Ogilvie …
I am aware of the reporting of the ESPN broadcast of The Rangers and Berwick, and would want clarification that you will be investigating the obvious sectarian singing.
You cannot ignore this.
Sincerely,
Lets hope for a reply….
Captain Haddock @ 23:32
The silence is deafening 🙂
More generous support for Dunfermline, Manchester this time…..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21750604?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
It Is True None The Less
Some of you may not like this but
‘Integrity is more essential than success’
is a pile of crap, and
‘Scottish Football needs a strong Rangers’
So tomorrow I will tell my children
they are not the most important thing in my life.
my club will soon know that
I have my priorities straight and
my football team.
is more important than
my pride and self esteem
I tell you this
not so long ago.
Football was about respect and dignity
but this was never actually so.
Scottish Football needs the Old Firm,
The authorities tell me that
3 years from now I will be mourning the death of Rangers .
I do not concede that
I will only support a game free from corporate greed and dishonesty.
In the future
rampant corruption will be acceptable.
I do not believe that
the decent supporters will walk away from our beautiful game.
It will soon become evident that
all football fans are apathetic and stupid.
It is foolish to presume that
There is still hope.
Unless you read this from bottom to top 😉
http://wp.me/39hnj
I am only catching up here and I apologise if this has been covered.
I read with interest Auldheids offering that TSFM has his draft re the FIFA “whistleblower” site.
I think given Auldheids previously proven ability as a wordsmith and knowledge of the rules, that this is a worthy idea.
Would it be worth posting the final copy on here or should it remain unpublished to disallow those who would attempt to undermine it from doing exactly that? Forewarned is forearmed and all that.
If it is published. Could we comment on or even ‘thumbs up’ (if the admins can recognise individual thumbs-uppers)?
Could the originators of these comments and/or thumbs up be added to the submission in much the same way as signatories to a petition?
An appeal to the world governing body will carry more weight with 500, 1000, 2000, however many backers.
No?
spanishcelt says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 15:54
goosygoosy says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 11:12
On Sat Annan subbed a player immediately after the game entered the 3 min of extra time. The player walked slowly off the park but not any more slowly than happens with any other extra time sub Maybe 20 -30 secs at most
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Low and behold
The Rangers TV Commentator confidently stated that the Referee “will” add extra time for this time wasting tactic
And he did
He allowed 5 mins of extra time and an unjustified corner to boot
……………………………………………………………………………….
……………………………………………………………………………….
The Rangers game was the last game in all scottish divisions to end on Saturday, all other results were in by a good two minutes or more before full time was called at Ibrokes.
——————————————————————————————————-
In fairness, I heard on the BBC radio commentary that the kick-off was slightly delayed. The commentators gave no reason for the delay but it was mentioned half way through the second half. As a result of this. I was fully expecting that the game would finish later than others.
Not defending anyone…….just pointing out what was said.
Whullie says,
I agree that Auldheid/TSFM whistleblower draft should be circulated to our email addresses to allow us all to send a copy, (possibly individualised by anyone if preferred), or even just posted as a blog if emailing is too onerous.
It was commented on as a matter of fact that the games at ibrox always kick off a few minutes later than every other game?…… Think it was DJ that stated this but then he would know the reason why……… Answers on a postcard please 🙂
It must be the ‘massive’ ‘record-breaking’ ‘debt-busting’ crowds 🙂
Brenda says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 01:33
Just to reiterate Brenda. I heard this on the BBC commentary. DJ works (and I use that word advisedly) at Clyde these days?
I was driving at the time so only heard the commentary for the last half hour or so. I have no idea what went on earlier than that.
Whullie @ 01:46
My apologies should have made it clear DJ ( I think it was him or one of his fellow ‘pundits’) said this on Clyde SSB during the sevco v Annan game. 😉
Great gestures in support of the Pars from the Rovers, Cowdenbeath and Alex Ferguson.
Clearly, the major issue is entirely our own fault.
However, it is worth remembering that Rangers FC (IA) were kept on a life support machine by the administrators, against the best interests of the creditors, with the express desire of keeping them in the SPL.
Had the administrators done their job properly the (woefully bad) Pars team would not have been relegated. We may have been facing a very similar problem in the future, but we certainly would not have been facing it this season.
This was compounded by the fix to promote Dundee with no sporting or other rationale for their selection over the Pars.
All of this presided over by our esteemed world class sporting bodies.
I noticed a scan of an article elsewhere (presumably from one of today’s red tops) claiming there is no scouting budget at Ibrox. Is it not reasonable to think that a club who claim the old crash and burn financial strategies of the past are over would be putting plans in place to ensure the best possible value can be obtained from future player recruitment? It makes you wonder how the ‘payback’ all clubs have been threatened with on entry to the top league is going to be achieved with a policy of prudence and wages no more than 33% of turnover. Perhaps though Charles Green will be history by that time and more traditional ways will be to the fore again.
Just reading about The Rangers – Puma deal. So no money up front but commission paid per jersey sold.
Strikes me as one of those “pay as you play” deals clubs sometimes offer to high risk injury prone players or wayward has-beens who are coming to the end of their career.
Puma clearly don’t have a lot of confidence that TRFC are in it for the long haul.
Andrew Woods says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 07:09
Just reading about The Rangers – Puma deal. So no money up front but commission paid per jersey sold.
Strikes me as one of those “pay as you play” deals clubs sometimes offer to high risk injury prone players or wayward has-beens who are coming to the end of their career.
Puma clearly don’t have a lot of confidence that TRFC are in it for the long haul.
================================================================
The fact that the Puma and Blackthorn deals were announced with no financial figures mentioned tell us all we need to know. I’d be amazed if Blackthorn are paying any more than £400-500K.
bobferris70 says:
Monday, March 11, 2013 at 21:33
Dean Shiels was carried off in the first half so I believe that is why the first half ended late and the second half kicked off late and was the last match to finish.
Seven TD for stating why the game finished so late. Some of you don’t do yourselves any favours
:………………………………………………………………..
No, the thumbs down from me was for suggesting the only game in scotland with a player injured long enough to cause 2 extra minutes being added to the official 3 minutes was at Ibrokes, where T Rangers just happened to be losing.
luoanlai says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 02:17
26 0 Rate This
Great gestures in support of the Pars from the Rovers, Cowdenbeath and Alex Ferguson …
————–
Aye, inspirational to see such support.
Was not aware of the series of articles in The Mail on Sunday on GM. Andrew Picken seems to know his stuff.
http://www.saveourglen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Gavin-Mastertons-complex-deals.pdf
Is this an SDM Mark II scenario?
SPL Fans United have launched an e-petition whereby supporters can ask SPL clubs to appeal the LNS ruling. When I try to access this I’m getting a message about insufficient bandwith to support the site. Is anyone else having this problem?
At the risk of repeating what I posted a while back, it has become obvious throughout this whole saga that the only force pushing for the honest, fair application of the rules in our sport is us, the supporters. That is why TRFC were not admitted straight back in the SPL. While the authorities will be content with apathy and resignation, they also want our money. If the fans can get organised to unite and speak with a powerful voice we will continue to make a difference. They need to understand loud and clear what their customers want, especially now with season ticket renewals imminent.
Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 08:49
http://www.saveourglen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Gavin-Mastertons-complex-deals.pdf
Is this an SDM Mark II scenario?
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
I think it is actually very close to home and is SDM Mk 1.
First cousins and interlinked in ways we don’t even know yet.
This whole story is and was never about football but about egos in business and (some of) the Scottish Financial Mafia and how they helped each other.
Football just allowed some of them to increase their public profiles cheaply.
Its a story still waiting to be pieced together.
finloch says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 09:10
This whole story is and was never about football but about egos in business and (some of) the Scottish Financial Mafia and how they helped each other.
Its a story still waiting to be pieced together.
==========================================
If we can get a journalist up here that would do that.
These things (SDM and Masterton) are only being reported now because they made a mess of things. If they were still in the positions of prominence they once had the media would be quiet regardless of the evidence.
Charlie Mulgrew @charlie_mulgrew
In my opinion the league is more exciting with old firm games any player in Scotland would agree. I didn’t say they should be let back in
I see Charlie uses the same definition of Scotland as Alex Smith.
Is anyone else slightly sceptical at the length of time the debate on restructure is actually taking (between the clubs I mean). “OK guys we’re here for the most important thing in Football right now (following that other unfortunate episode that we told you we’d fix for you), Show of hands for an adjournment and we’ll see you all again next month. Motion carried!”
Oh, and Danish
Is this an SDM Mark II scenario?
No its an SDM financier on very thin ice scenario.
newco/oldco licence article.
http://t.co/VP9ZO2xrsg
Apologies if allready posted –
Barcabhoy@Barcabhoy1
Gavin Masterton & David Murray. The toxic twins of Scottish Football
Finger getting closer to the nuclear button?
Signs aren’t too good down the Halbeath Road.
From the official website
http://www.dafc.co.uk/articles/20130311/save-our-club_2207955_3105800
Other comments from those who attended last night’s meeting
How much are we due – Don’t know
When do we have to pay HMRC by – Don’t know
How can fans contribute financially – Don’t know
Even Gavin Masterton doesn’t know the state of the finances
£450,000 due to trade creditors
Wage bill of £95,000 a month plus arrears to be paid
Copy of proposal letter sent to Masterton from TPC (The Pars Community)
http://www.slideshare.net/SaveThePars
From the letter:
£12.2M Loan from Lloyds – attempt to be made to negotiate a write off of as much as possible.
Share issue unlikely to raise anything like the £500,000 suggested.
TPC looking to get at least 50% of the shares and control of the club
Looking for a 30 year lease on East End Park
60% of amounts due to Masterton family to be written off
Remainder to be paid by “exceptional revenue” or written off in 2043 if not paid off before then
With the renewal of ST’s in the offing, and perhaps also the forthcoming SFA sponsored games at Hampden,
we’ll soon learn what kind of balls we’ll be using next season –
if any at all.
Last years were pretty good alright
Here’s hoping for the same again – if not better.
Ideally, of course, what’s needed is balls of steel –
to deal
wi’ the Hampden Four
an’ wi’ the Club that isnae real.
Balls, made in Scotland – fae girders!
Give it time.
Balls of steel.
Who let the dog out?
I know I shouldn’t but I really do get a nice sense of enjoyment when I see the likes of Murray and Masterton being put through the mill. I know they will have enough money salted away to see them comfortably through the remains of their life so financially they will not suffer much, but the loss of prestige is probably more damaging to them than any actual cash loss.
Murray’s fall, from being the WATP’s equivalent of Scottish royalty to the villain of the piece, is obviously the most enjoyable but it is heartening to now see the rest of the gang being brought to book.
Dominoes anyone 😀
What goes around,comes around.
To those who have caused long-lasting and grievous damage to our game their narcissistic pride has been irretrievably damaged.
The conversation as to the future of the game is now out there,and I foresee massive fan reaction to the ills of the game,
The next months will be very telling.Here we go again
This summer is going to be like the second leg of a titanic tussle.
The fans won the first leg and I’d like to think following all the nonsense that the governing bodies have tried to foist upon us over the last 12 months that our resolve will be greater still for the second leg.
The fans have the financial clout as was shown last June, and another victory will be secured as long as we withold our season ticket money long enough for it to be confirmed that The Rangers will be in the league they should be next season.
Captain Haddock says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 01:13
Whullie says,
I agree that Auldheid/TSFM whistleblower draft should be circulated to our email addresses to allow us all to send a copy, (possibly individualised by anyone if preferred), or even just posted as a blog if emailing is too onerous.
=================================
The latter is the plan with encouragement to do as you suggest, preferably individualised.
Interesting…following on a re-tweet today:
Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20
Can Football Supporters Challenge Decisions of Football Bodies? http://lawtop20.blogspot.com/2012/11/can-football-supporters-challenge.html …
Retweeted by Phil MacGiollaBhain
http://lawtop20.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/can-football-supporters-challenge.html
Can Football Supporters Challenge Decisions of Football Bodies?
We are not convinced that a similar case in the future cannot be succesful [sic], at least, if it could be pleaded under different headings and legal arguments. We are of the view that if football supporters can demonstrate prejudice of economic and other interests against them, or if the shareholders of the club [particularly minority shareholders] are able to establish such prejudice, the outcome of a similar complaint may be different.
We conclude, therefore, that those advising football supporters, must ensure that the legal basis of the case has merits and that the rights that have been violated, deserve protection under European Law. The European Court of Justice has repeatedly stated, in the past, that rules of sporting governing bodies that affect European competition law, could be outlawed if such competition laws have been violated.
‘I think it is actually very close to home and is SDM Mk 1.
First cousins and interlinked in ways we don’t even know yet.
This whole story is and was never about football but about egos in business and (some of) the Scottish Financial Mafia and how they helped each other.
Football just allowed some of them to increase their public profiles cheaply.
Its a story still waiting to be pieced together’
It’s a bit like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon!! As someone with first hand experience of two of the companies mentioned, SDG Holdings and SDG Caledonia, it doesn’t take a huge amount of digging to reveal that they are both controlled by Kevin McCabe, former chairman of Sheffield United. Let me think…….wasn’t there some link between him and the current CEO of TRFC????
luoanlai says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 02:17
54 0 i
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However, it is worth remembering that Rangers FC (IA) were kept on a life support machine by the administrators, against the best interests of the creditors, with the express desire of keeping them in the SPL.
========================
I agree, and said so at the time.
In a fair and honest system Dunfermline would not have been relegated, there would have been no relegation last season and Ross County would have joined the SPL to make up the 12.
A CVA was impossible, liquidation was inevitable the assets and business should have been broken up in the interests of the creditors.
Saving the company was never a possibility, serving the creditors was never a factor. Keeping A Rangers (as Craig Whyte called it) was always the intention. Getting that team into the SPL and actually better off financially than the failed club was the expectation, at the expense of the creditors, the uk taxpayer and Scottish football.
It wasn’t personal though, Dunfermline just got shafted a lot more than others because of the position they were in. It could have been anyone.
Brenda, still no movement from the lesser blazered Lunny , either on the Berwick “community sing song ” or as somebody else intimated the post admin v’s Killie game, however I think I’ve discovered his secret he only deals with the TRFC business on the 32nd of every month.
TSFM – remember you were asking for ideas on how to put monies donated to this site to best use?
May I suggest a legal challange:
hangerhead says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 12:41
A bit off topic and I know I really shouldn’t but here goes. Last night I had the stupidity to listen to SSB. I can hear the sighs and groans already. Anyhoos, as the show is promoted as Scotland’s only week day phone in for football fans why do the pundits all have views that differ from 96% of Scottish football fans, not counting TRFC fans of course. I’m getting the 96% from last years massive online poll and I’m assuming the voters still hold the same views. The show is an absolute disgrace. Derek Johnstone defends TRFC to the nth degree of ridiculousness. I believe the only way to balance the show when DJ appears would be Tommy from Shettleston appearing as co pundit. But who do the producers use as DJs sidekick last night? Yes Hugh Keevins.
Hugh’s venom for all things Celtic at the moment seems to be escalating exponentially as the days of his barring from Celtic park mount. Sorry for using Celtic as an example here as this blog is about all Scottish clubs, I would be equally disgusted with this man if he showed contempt for any club but it just so happens to be Celtic. I know of two people who are barred from Scottish football grounds, one of them attacked a football manager at tynecastle and the other is Hugh Keevins. Kind of a sums it all up.
Anyway, why is this show allowed to be so bad? Why do the producers of this show not have a clear out and aim for a more balanced team.? As Scotland’s only week day phone in surely we deserve better.
On the subject of monitoring Scottish Football :
I’ve just been reading the thoughts of John Fleming, the referee supervisor, on the Hibs goal not given. He reckons goal-line technology would be too expensive:
” Would Scottish clubs invest in this technology to the detriment of youth
develpment ? I don’t think so “.
Why are those the options ? Would they invest to the detriment of the bloated layers of bureaucracy and administration ? A corpulent system where the head honcho collects his wages while admitting he is unable to do the job.
” Fleming pointed out Hibs had benefited from a similar blunder against
Motherwell this season “. ( Hibs won 4-0 ).
Is that the defence ? ” My refs were abysmal in that game as well so, swings and roundabouts, eh ? End of the day, you know “.
John Fleming also advocates the use of Europa League-style goal-line officials.
” Don’t waste your money on new fangled technology. I know we said four officials would be enough, but if you upgrade to the 6.0 system you get true peace of mind* “.
( * T&C’s apply )
I’m sorry for being flippant, but to me this epitomises the arrogant, parasitical, maggot-infested coterie who purport to run and legislate our game.
And at times I despair…
(Help us, Obi-Wan-Auldheid, you may be our only hope).
bigsausagefingers says:
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 14:10
1 0 Rate This
A bit off topic and I know I really shouldn’t but here goes. Last night I had the stupidity to listen to SSB. I can hear the sighs and groans already. Anyhoos, as the show is promoted as Scotland’s only week day phone in for football fans why do the pundits all have views that differ from 96% of Scottish football fans, not counting TRFC fans of course. I’m getting the 96% from last years massive online poll and I’m assuming the voters still hold the same views. The show is an absolute disgrace. Derek Johnstone defends TRFC to the nth degree of ridiculousness …
————-
I usually give the podcast a listen. You do get the odd caller who speaks sense. Last night’s was like an unofficial Ibrox podcast though. Less objectivity than usual. You got the impression most of the hosts were wearing black armbands to mark ‘oor worst defeat since Berwick 1967’. A summary of recent programmes could read: Staunch defence of McCoist, everybody wants Rangers back in the SPL, debt free, same club, totally innocent as affirmed by Mr Justice Cocklecarrot and the FTTT, unbroken history, fantastic support, Green is right, Green is wrong – they’re worse than the worst-ever team – so it cannae be Ally’s fault, players don’t deserve the jersey, we are not worthy. Celtic hugely unachieving.
😀