History, Neighbours and Made Up News

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History, Neighbours and Made Up News

Or, a story of how and why Mr Lawwell consigned resolution 12 to the deepest grass;
by Finloch


“It’s about history and being neighbours”, young Elisabeth said to her mum.

And it has to be done for tomorrow, Elisabeth said.

“I’m supposed to ask in an in-person interview about what life was like where an older neighbour grew up and what was life like when the neighbour was my age.

It’s not my fault that we’re new here and haven’t spoken to our old, next door neighbour yet and don’t even know his name.

“I’ve an idea her mother said, why don’t you make it up.

Pretend you’re asking him questions and then write down the answers you think he’d give”.

“It’s supposed to be true”, Elisabeth said. “It’s for News”.

“They’ll never know”, her mother said. “Just make it up.

The real news is always made up anyway”.

 

publicLibraryI was lucky enough to catch Ali Smith at the Edinburgh Book Festival.

I was part of a very diverse audience and unusually for this kind of event nobody in the sold-out Charlotte Square tent had a Scooby about what she was going to share with us.

Most would have been expecting a reading or two from her recent short story collection, Public Library, about the cynical, thoughtless and almost silent and unpublicised demise of Libraries up and down our land.

Our libraries.

Our land.

Ali is always value for money though and was amazing, reading from her as yet unpublished “Autumn” book, the first she said of a four-book series.

As I listened to her, I was also thinking and juggling around at the back of my mind about what I was going to write for this blog, having been asked for my thoughts, as a non-involved, non-Celtic supporter, on how I see the Resolution 12 situation.

 

Well Ali’s words stung like a bee and proved quite inspirational. The wisdom and clarity in her new books is highly relevant to all of us who care about Scottish Football and Resolution 12 including Mr Lawwell, Mr Doncaster, Mr Regan, Mr Petrie and us too – the real stakeholders.

 

Ali also shared with us a Bernard Maclaverty insight from when he once visited a school as part of (I think) a Scottish creative writing initiative and in the course of his talk asked some youngsters,

“What is fiction” ?

Someone put their hand up and said “Please Sir, it’s made up truth”.

 

Near the end Ali also got to talking about post Brexit Britain and used the chaos to ask the bigger question.

“Why do we never seem to have real debates about anything and why in any “debate” we might see or read that there never seems to be room for to-ing and fro-ing on points because everyone seems to have already made their minds up and just wants to maintain their status quos, achieve their own personal agendas or to steamroller us all to their point of view”.

 

“People in power seem to be genuinely scared of honest debates”, she said.

She asked how without more real discussions and insightful and open minded debates can any of us (and the debaters themselves too) learn because without that we will just get more of what we’ve had.

And that’s not good enough.

 

So thanks Ali I’m going to combine these three things from your hour along with two personal career experiences and review Mr Lawwell and his company’s reaction to the bona fide Resolution 12 raised by some of his shareholders a few years ago.

(My career experiences were as the head of a small, and treated as unimportant, company that was part of a worldwide group of companies run (badly) out of the US; and my time as head of a trade association that had two very dominant and troublesome members).

 

My Five Insights to review Resolution 12 are.

  1. Some people think  “made up news is fine” and feed us all with it all the time.
  2. Don’t expect real discussions or debates about anything in your club. No two way dialogues, except from those about money once a year.
  3. “Made up Truths” become gospel not to be challenged.
  4. The people running the club know they are smarter and more important than any of their minority or remote stakeholders.
  5. All decisions that really matter in football or indeed in any business are pre-agreed and never discussed in the open.

So now to what I think of Resolution 12.

My starting point is to say this. It is wrong to see or to discuss Mr Lawwell and Resolution 12 as being about the awarding of a license – or the boardroom processes since The Requisitioners first raised it.

Sadly, I’d suggest Requisition 12 was history before it was even raised.

In the late Murray days at Ibrox and in the early Whyte ownership period there had been rumours, and I’m certain deep and meaningful business discussions between the heads of the SFA and SPL and their key committee members.

You can be sure that the SFA, SPL, Celtic and others were all watching the post Murray Rangers situation closely, and the new regime at Ibrox and related financial stuff would have been the talk of the exclusive football steamies.

Despite what some Celtic fans believe, the reality has always been that while Rangers may have dominated (just) all things SFA and SPL, nothing was ever done without the knowledge of and input from the green side of the Old Firm business model.

Sadly, I’d suggest Requisition 12 was history before it was even raised.

Scotland’s unique, idiosyncratic, religio-political old firm business model was not just about driving the individual Glasgow teams to their leviathan duopoly in Scottish football. We all knew (because we were told so) that it was also the commercial bedrock of the business that is Scottish Football.

And yes, for a while David Murray thought his club was bigger than the Old Firm, but he and his ego had moved on when all this stuff happened.

Put simply, Regan who was quite new, was convinced at the time – and still is absolutely certain – that the SFA and Scottish Football needed a dominant Celtic and Rangers, and he also personally needed and needs the support of their CEO’s.

Doncaster too was convinced that the SPL needed Celtic and Rangers arch rivalry with all it entails, delivering TV monies and maximizing his bonuses. He too also personally required and requires the support of the Old Firm CEO’s.

Lawwell the astute numbers man, under a constant watchful eye from Dublin, needed Rangers to ensure his business plan did not develop un-fillable black holes.

And yes, for a while David Murray thought his club was bigger than the Old Firm, but he and his ego had moved on when all this stuff happened.

Importantly, Peter was also one of a small influential football group who effectively controlled the actions of Regan and Doncaster. Nothing strategic would ever have been done by either of them without his involvement and input. That doesn’t mean he necessarily knew all the detail about  Craig’s UEFA license shenanigans but he’d have had his suspicions.

And you know something, – at a squeeze I think he and Desmond might have thought keeping a Rangers team alive (for its future dependable revenue streams) was maybe even worth one season’s lost Champions League status.

There is no doubt in my mind that in 2011 Peter and the Celtic Board were worried but supportive of and committed to keeping the Rangers company alive.

Looking back I don’t know when Lawwell and Desmond actually discovered de facto that Rangers should not have been awarded the license.

Was it before it was awarded?

Was it after by which time it was too late anyway?

Those would be two good questions to ask them.

I’d suggest that by the time they knew for sure it was too late, but I could be wrong.

Anyway history shows that pretty quickly after McCoist failed in Europe, Lawwell committed his club to the complex and complicated secret Five-Way Agreement and all it entailed.

Celtic were senior signed-up members of the attempt to help protect and leverage the future blue revenue streams into the SPL then the SPL 2 then the bottom level.

It was all about the blue pound.

It was all about the blue pound into the future.

It was all about the blue pound into the future being central in the business model at Celtic that needed (then and now) a blue pound generating Rangers.

We all know now that compromise was somehow reached ahead of the Brechin cup tie in the summer of 2012.

Many – in fact most of –  Scottish football fans were glad that football had once again broken out, having become fed up with all the politics, and were glad to return to talking about players and stuff.

Football gossip is after all more comfortable than finding out we’d all been cheated for years.

Not all fans were ready to “Move-on” however.

Some, like many of us on this site and others like it wanted to dig deeper and examine just what happened and who did what.

Some wanted Celtic as the most wronged club to do and say more about Sporting Integrity.

Some wanted to rub their old rivals into the dirt.

Some wanted a full and frank review because they believed that without Sporting Integrity we would make the same mistakes in the future.

I’d be one of these fans.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Celtic shareholders who pieced together the jigsaw that led to Resolution 12, correctly identified that their club were illegally denied a place in the Champions League and denied substantial revenues.

Fair play to them.

If  I was a Celtic shareholder I personally would have wanted to know why my board had not pursued these significant revenues that were due to my company.

It was and is a big deal.

No it was and is a huge deal.

It remains an open sore and everyone involved seems to have ducked any blame.

I applaud those Requisitioner Shareholders for how they have gone about the process, and I have a huge respect for everything they have done on behalf of Celtic and fans of all Scottish clubs.

However in my opinion it was always doomed to failure because of the simple fact that their own club, having been an integral part of the whole murky “Armageddon” process, had already moved on into the new world they had helped to forge, and did not and could not look back.

So Resolution 12 was treated politely but cleverly by the club in the finest traditions of Sir Humphrey.

They did not want to fight their shareholders corner then and I’d suggest still don’t – and wont.

 

So going back to my five points earlier.

 

  1. Mr Lawwell et al did not want to establish the real truth, which they already knew. Hey had already signed up to what had been reported, moved the club on and spent his personal bonuses along the way no doubt.
  2. Mr Lawwell et al did not want a real debate because he and his small team had already done what they believed at the time to be right for the club they were paid to manage.
    Nothing more to say.
    And yes he could mumble agreement that Sporting Integrity is important when cornered but between us chaps it wouldn’t ever have filled the yawning gaps in the stands at Celtic Park without a Rangers counterbalance.
  3. Rangers are now back and the Old Firm is once again dominating Scottish Football.
    The truth at Celtic Park is we need each other and season book sales and TV revenues are up proving my point all along.
  4. We tolerate the intellectual end of our support, just, but they are hard work and you’d think they own the club.
    We even quite enjoy some of their stuff sometimes as long as its not too political but  we have a business to run and quite frankly sometimes they just don’t get it. They should realise the SFA and the SPFL are there to do a job for us and we keep them on a short enough leash.
  5. We will always be grateful to Fergus for what he did. We benefited at the time from the fan’s money and now run a very successful shareholder liaison programme. Once a year we have an AGM and try to manage the reality of running a business while having to hear from people who would prefer us to regress to what we were in the 1880s. Shareholders are fine but this club is a business and must be run as such.

 

My Five Insights sum up the position and stance of the Celtic Board.

I don’t know what will happen to Resolution 12.

The club never wanted it because they are a business and see the world differently from the group of fans who see themselves as the Celtic soul.

I applaud these Celtic fans.

Celtic does not deserve you.

About the author

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Finloch author

Finloch has been a member of SFM since it's inception. A Hearts fan, he also penned the blog, Look Back to Look Forward

1,353 Comments so far

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on10:14 am - Sep 27, 2016


EASYJAMBO

SEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 01:01       Irony of irony from KJ.  Perhaps he should do something to expose the incompetence of the Scottish FA

keith jackson ‏@tedermeatballs
Incredible appointment in the first place. But, for Scotland’s sake, i hope he survives. The English FA almost make our lot look competent.
————————————–

I’m quite sure that KayJay has his book (or articles) already written (or cut’n’pasted) from his favourite blogs; to be published when it’s considered safe to speak out.

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John ClarkPosted on10:35 am - Sep 27, 2016


Pat ByrneSeptember 27, 2016 at 07:25
‘….how can you compare illegal payments through EBT’s totalling well over £100m in a backwater like Scotland with a few millions being tossed about the richest league in the world?’
_______
Not so much a matter of ‘comparison’ as a matter of ‘contrast’ , Pat Bytrne.
The “Telegraph” spent 10 months on a detailed investigation into the alleged behaviour of a team manager, and as soon as  the ‘results’ of the investigation are publicised the FA is arranging emergency meetings and calling for tapes and videos and other evidence supposedly held by the investigators.
By contrast, the biggest episode of football cheating by a club owner in our own wee country is not even mentioned as being such, let alone investigated, and a whole lot of protective nonsense is spouted about the ‘legality’ of the EBT scheme..
And, worse by far, there was not a hint of investigation into what a certain individual knew for a fact about how the EBT scheme was actually operated at the cheating club when he was later in supposed charge of the workings of the SFA, and OUGHT to have had his minions look very carefully indeed at what the cheating club was officially recording as its ‘payments to players’.
The contrast is truly startling.
And it is hard to avoid the conclusion that, our hacks being (one supposes) not totally thick, knew damn fine that something was there to be investigated but deliberately chose to ignore it, and instead chose to feed their dishonourable faces with succulent lamb, while they were feeding us with misleading crap and sometimes downright, unfounded assertions.
And, of course, the subsequent nonsense of Bryson, and the crap from Regan and Doncaster, and the 5-way agreement and the pernicious resistance to anything like the Truth followed on, and the whole dirty bag of tricks employed by the ‘Football Authorities’ and the SMSM to propagate mistruth and myth continues.
The allegations against Allardyce have not been proven.
By contrast, we know RFC(IL) misled the SFA and the then SFL, we know that LNS’s enquiry was not provided with all relevant evidence, we know that RFC (IL) was NOT bought out of Administration [ sure, have we not had none other than our Dave wistfully speculating about the possibility of now buying it out of Administration?], we know that Charles Green’s SevcoScotland/Rangers 2012/TRFC did not come into existence until 2012, we know that at a critical time RFC was owing tax to HMRC but somehow the UEFA Club Licensing people appear not to have been told that, etc etc etc etc.
But we don’t know that from anything the SMSM told us.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:06 am - Sep 27, 2016


JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 10:35
     “But we don’t know that from anything the SMSM told us.”
    ==================================================
0404040404

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normanbatesmumfc

normanbatesmumfcPosted on3:26 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Good to see Hector’s keeping up the good work.

I think the chances of the latest EBT decision being overturned, (if even heard) are becoming slimmer by the week.

http://www.adviserbreakthrough.co.uk/rangers-football-club-result-affect-us/
 
https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/hmrc-wins-143m-tax-battle-serial-avoidance-promoter/?cmpid=pmalert_2666595&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=mm_daily_news

 

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John ClarkPosted on4:56 pm - Sep 27, 2016


NormanBatesMumFc @ 15.26
_______________
I think it’s likely that BDO will withdraw their appeal. The argument that the CoS took took into consideration matters or argument that had not  been rehearsed at previous hearings  seems to me to be very weak: HMRC’s case was that  people were paid money under  contract in return for services, and therefore the money was taxable. Mr Ghosh simply made a much more effective presentation of the case which cut to the chase , and their Lordships were not dealing with ‘ new’ matters not previously considered.They just more easily saw what the facts were, and applied the law to those facts.

It’s extremely unlikely that the Supreme Court could take a different view.
But In so far as the presentation of the  case was so brilliantly simple, though, they probably allowed the appeal in order to demonstrate clearly that the Court is open in principle to the need to allow the appellant to show in detail what his grounds of appeal are,and argue his case fully-before dismissing it as groundless.
BDO is unlikely to wish to be used as a stalking horse for the many other companies and tax “avoidance” advisers who will be affected by an sdverse finding  by the Supreme Court, and will think it wiser, and better for the creditors, to withdraw the appeal.

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John ClarkPosted on5:05 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Moes: has the 5 minute-edit time facility disappeared?

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SmugasPosted on5:07 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Sorry but  couldn’t help but notice this excerpt from the above.  When discussing the impact of the Murray Group case 

Lastly, and most significantly, the Rangers decision could impact on a number of perfectly innocent arrangements.

As opposed to ….21

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Kentes1

Kentes1Posted on5:08 pm - Sep 27, 2016


After all the furore about Celtic getting the benefit of some dodgy decisions as they are meant to be one of the cheeks from the same arise, where does that leave the downs to fit in maybe they are the third cheek07

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on5:13 pm - Sep 27, 2016


John Clark
September 27, 2016 at 16:56
————————————————————————–
Talking about court, is Mr Craig Thomas Whyte  due to appear  next Monday, the  3rd of October 2016 ?
This time with  Mr Donald Russell Findlay QC  representing him.06

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John ClarkPosted on5:28 pm - Sep 27, 2016


woodsteinSeptember 27, 2016 at 17:13
‘….Talking about court, is Mr Craig Thomas Whyte due to appear next Monday, the 3rd of October 2016 …….?’
_________
I believe so, woodstein, but I haven’t yet checked the Glasgow High Court Rolls. I shall do so forthwith.

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John ClarkPosted on5:36 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Woodstein:
just confirmed-Glasgow High Court, 3rd October.
03 October 2016/current-business/court- Glasgow HC HMA v Craig WHYTE 03-OCT-16 Preliminary Hearing Continued SCS/2015-152941

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SmugasPosted on6:09 pm - Sep 27, 2016


And in summary, this is about false declarations surrounding the 2011 purchase is it not, the cases for the pre purchase coincidences, the post purchase coincidences and the resultant, in my eyes at least, post admin erm, coincidences, all having collapsed.  

Theyre nearly there!  They just haven’t quite grasped the concept of funding ongoing losses and reinvestment yet.  Green’s reward is fairly obvious in his convivial new surroundings but fair play, craigy’s kept his under wraps and away from the insolvency practitioner so far.  Maybe he just did it for his love of the club/company thingy after all.  Or maybe not.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on6:24 pm - Sep 27, 2016


KENTES1SEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 17:08

Having now watched the AFC v TRFC game in full, it appears to me that the ref was consistent throughout . He gave TRFC  quite a few “soft” decisions around the box , and the contentious decision looked the same or similar .(PS   where do you buy those diving boots that some of the players were wearing ?).

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on6:28 pm - Sep 27, 2016


John Clark
September 27, 2016 at 17:36
Thanks John
04

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:43 pm - Sep 27, 2016


JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 16:56
BDO is unlikely to wish to be used as a stalking horse for the many other companies and tax “avoidance” advisers who will be affected by an sdverse finding by the Supreme Court, and will think it wiser, and better for the creditors, to withdraw the appeal.
————-
John would BDO wait until the last minute to withdraw the appeal.Say just before they go into court, or could they withdraw the appeal anytime  from now until the court case?
Is it better for BDO to act now or wait.

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goosygoosyPosted on7:12 pm - Sep 27, 2016


CLUSTER ONESEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 18:43 JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 16:56BDO is unlikely to wish to be used as a stalking horse for the many other companies and tax “avoidance” advisers who will be affected by an sdverse finding by the Supreme Court, and will think it wiser, and better for the creditors, to withdraw the appeal.————-John would BDO wait until the last minute to withdraw the appeal.Say just before they go into court, or could they withdraw the appeal anytime  from now until the court case?Is it better for BDO to act now or wait.?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Depends on whether they have bricked up their windows

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John ClarkPosted on7:43 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Cluster OneSeptember 27, 2016 at 18:43
‘….would BDO wait until the last minute to withdraw the appeal.Say just before they go into court, or could they withdraw the appeal anytime from now until the court case?Is it better for BDO to act now or wait.’
______
As far as I know, an appellant in any situation can drop his appeal at any time, settle up with his solicitor and Counsel, pay any Court fees he might be liable for, and go on his way, perhaps a wiser and certainly a sorrier man.

Of course, BDO might have been advised by Counsel that there is something more than a 50/50 chance of a successful appeal, in which case they would want to  take their time to consider, and perhaps consult the Creditors’ committee, or even the creditors en masse.

It’s possible also, of course, that Counsel might not yet have given a solid opinion: might not do so until the stage when he sees HMRC’s preliminary notes of argument and such like, and the precedents being used to support their case.

But BDO has to keep in mind their prime duty to the Creditors, and not spend resources recklessly on legal fees where their case is not very strong.

I don’t know whether BDO would have anything to gain by delaying withdrawal, once they had decided that that was the way to go.

But what do I know? BDO might have been assured by the best legal brains that they have a very, very strong case!09

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upthehoopsPosted on7:50 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Re this talk of BDO potentially withdrawing the Supreme Court appeal.  I am no tax expert but casting my mind back to the reaction to the Court of Session ruling for HMRC made me think an appeal was as much for appeasement as it was with a view to actually winning it.  The CoS ruling caused a wave of panic among the football authorities and media. It instantly raised the question of sporting advantage which Celtic went public on very soon after the ruling was announced.  Even going by the record of statements from Ibrox the one that was issued was almost desperate in its anger about the ruling having no effect on Rangers ‘history’. In short we were heading for mayhem, and big hitting media people like Alex Thompson were not abiding by any party lines with their questions. There was also the not insignificant matter of whether a Knight of the Realm, who is a friend of the establishment, had knowingly cheated the public purse out of tens of millions of pounds. BDO were under a lot of media pressure to appeal as it was the only way to calm the growing storm. They waited until the very last day, and they will still get their fees no matter what. Whether they genuinely believe they can win is another matter. 

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HighlanderPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 27, 2016


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37483344

Allardyce no longer England manager. If only the Scottish football authorities had the same degree of morals, or indeed, any at all!

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on8:43 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Mr Wright is Right
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/celtic/ian-wright-slams-vile-old-firm-derby-and-pro-rangers-media-1-4241280
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/football/ian-wright-slams-vile-old-firm-derby-and-pro-rangers-media-1-7598927

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John ClarkPosted on9:08 pm - Sep 27, 2016


HighlanderSeptember 27, 2016 at 19:58
‘…Allardyce no longer England manager. If only the Scottish football authorities had the same degree of morals, or indeed, any at all!’
_______
Thanks for the link, Highlander,from which I take this sentence and sentiment, and would wish it (with appropriate amendment) branded on the fundaments of our guilty football governance bodies.
“The manager of the England men’s senior team is in a position which must demonstrate strong leadership and show respect for the integrity of the game at all times.”

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Pat ByrnePosted on9:50 pm - Sep 27, 2016


I am currently gazing in to the infinity above my head that I am told leads to a place described on this earth as heaven, I have my hands splayed out in acceptance that there is indeed a divine being and he is also without any shadow of doubt a Celtic supporter and brough me back to the realisation that being a non belever is a path i should no longer follow. There can be no other explanation which in this world would be acceptable for those who regard themselves as of sane mind and in full control of their mental faculties. We are reliably informed that the Warbmiester has been installed ahead in the betting for the England job at 16/1 against Mr Rodgers who is quoted at 33/1 by no other than the horned one’s bible of all things football the Daily Record 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-manager-mark-warburton-ahead-8924823
Who am I to question the wisdom and knowledge of this hellfire that brought to the non believers the wonders of reincarnation, can inflict amnesia and memory loss for long periods of time, has the ability to inspire awe and facination by the telling of how it’s followers can obtain wealth beyond all imagination with the use of legal highs called EBT’s and inflict deafness on those that attend their “mass’ meetings where no evil will be heard, spoken or seen. All I know is that I now have faith and the chosen one who abides at the holy ground will not cross to the dark side that is the FA! alleluia and praise be I have been saved from evil.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on9:51 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Embarrassing we are behoved to England these days for truth and integrity.
Annoying Allardice gone as he would undoubtedly given us a victory 13

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:07 pm - Sep 27, 2016


Thanks for replies

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Kentes1

Kentes1Posted on10:23 pm - Sep 27, 2016


PADDY MALARKEY 27th 18.24pm.
Agree totally the ref was a bit pedantic throughout.
As to the diving boots I was going to try and contact Joe Garner as he seemed to fall over a lot, he could possibly turn out to be the new Lafferty ie. get people sent off with his ham acting(dont think he would get into RADA) although there seemed to be a few other candidates for the new series of splash with young Tom Daly.21

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John ClarkPosted on11:18 pm - Sep 27, 2016


upthehoopsSeptember 27, 2016 at 19:50
‘……Even going by the record of statements from Ibrox the one that was issued was almost desperate in its anger about the ruling having no effect on Rangers ‘history’…’
_______
Yes, uth.

Once a liar is committed to a lie, he is committed always to defend that lie.

TRFC claim to be ‘Rangers’ of x number of sporting titles and trophies.

If, (in summary), the Courts judge that RFC made payments that were not only not disclosed to the football authorities but were also in breach of Tax legislation, then they fielded ineligible players, and gained illicit sporting advantage over other clubs who, like honest people, did not resort to tax cheating; and any honours ‘won’ would have to be stripped from the record of RFC(IL).

So, what does a lying board do?

What else but resort to previously successful strategies and tactics-bluster and threaten and deny the truth before the Court’s judgment is made, in an attempt to force the all-too-easily-forced Football Authorities to do the same, forsworn creatures that they already are. [ and Charles Green could read them like a book].

From the day and hour that SDM signed up to and implemented Baxendale-Walker’s scheme, everything connected to RFC before Administration was tainted, as has been all and everything from Liquidation and the grimy,grimy creation of the new club onwards. 

A taint that has attached itself to the BBC and the the SMSM.

Believe me,the alleged sins of an Allardyce are as nothing compared to the sin festering at the heart of Scottish Football, and in the bosoms of those who owe us and our Sport the duty of honest fact-finding and reporting.

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The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on12:38 am - Sep 28, 2016


Marathon Man (1976)
.
Is it safe? Is it safe?
.
The Cat NR1 has been Off The Radar for a while, mostly due to an overload of MSM “OF” necromancy that meant a step back into the real world was in order. I’ve now got my whiskers set to full twitch and my claws nicely sharpened , with the litter tray of Neil Doncaster’s fantasy world just waiting for an overnight feline deposit.
.
Is it safe? Is it safe?
.
Questions. Questions.
Why are Doncaster and Regan in office?
Do Sky TV think that selling the liquidation survival myth to people that think that the SPFL Premiership is a pub league (that’s the English workplace opinion) is actually better than being honest?
Slightly rhetorical, but how does the licence fee funded BBC get away with lying to the licence fee payers (well, us really)?
That’s actually an honest question, as we all have to admit to the existence of Santa and the tooth fairy as being somewhat economical with the acualitee (sorry to those that read the SMSM about that hating lie).
.
It’s a funny old game.
Sky TV employ various pundits that have interesting personal tax relations with HMRC without any comment or embarassment.
The sight of Sounness, McCann, McLeish on Sky and Thompson on Sportscene would ask questions if the relevant information was properly disseminated.
Sam Allerdyce is now available as a pundit.
.
Answers? Answers?
Is it safe?
Probably not, but. the The Cat will be looking and asking.

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Pat ByrnePosted on6:07 am - Sep 28, 2016


I got to thinking of those currently in with a shout, who would I want least of all to manage England on the basis that 1 would be decidedly bad for Scotland and 5 would offer us our best chance to qualify since France.
1) Alan Shearer13
2) Arlene Wenger05
3) Jurgen Klinsman09
4)Harry Rednapp21
5) Steve Bruce12210415
I know I left out the loaf but the current manager of FC pan bread has enough on his plate

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naegreetinPosted on8:42 am - Sep 28, 2016


Re Bungs
Just watched to-day’s Telegraph release of undercover videos – I wouldn’t want to be in Scotty (short for Scott) McGarvey’s shoes just now – never mind the FA its the Fraud Squad & HMRC I would be worried about . Why do I keep thinking about SDM/Rangers and Souness/Newcastle but hey , the Boumsong deal was investigated by the police & nothing to see , right .

Oh for a Daily Telegraph investigation of Rangers 1 & 2 , the SFA etc – we can but hope .

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ChristyboyPosted on9:23 am - Sep 28, 2016


PAT BYRNESEPTEMBER 27, 2016 at 21:50

That is just a remarkable headline.  I wouldn’t know where to start with it so i’m not going to. 

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on10:12 am - Sep 28, 2016


So, Big Sam Allardyce has been caught scamming football. Making money by underhand means from a sport he’s supposed to love. The contempt of football supporters, everywhere, is fully deserved, and I hope the law punishes him accordingly if any laws have been broken – I am sure his actions will be investigated.

But…

His ‘crimes’ can surely have had little effect on any result, anywhere. I doubt, too, that any titles were secured by the facilitating of some sordid syndicate to make a nice little earner. I am sure Big Sam massaged his conscience from time to time with similar thoughts. He broke the rules of the game, a bit like players gambling on football results, and possibly the law, and has deservedly been castigated by all and sundry…and lost his ultimate dream job.

From what we know, he has only gained personally, and no club he managed has benefitted from his dealings (they might have secured a player or two they otherwise might have missed, but it would appear they were ultimately paying over the odds to line dodgy geezers’ pockets), though perhaps some players have lost out financially, so that these syndicates can cream off unearned profits. He has cheated individuals, but has not, directly, cheated the clubs, the supporters, not even the Treasury – oh yes he has, for those bungs will have gone undeclared on any tax returns, but, again, that aspect was only to benefit himself. 

We, here, all know that a much greater wrong was perpetrated on Scottish football, with a much greater cheating of the Treasury, for some ten years, and yet the same Scottish Media that was so quick to jump on the ‘Big Bad Sam’ bandwagon have done the exact opposite with the Rangers EBT Scandal.

I challenge any Scottish journalist, reporter or hack to write an article comparing the wrongs of Sam Allardyce to those of all the people involved in Rangers’ cheating. It would be amazingly easy to do, perhaps career defining, for all the evidence is here, on this blog and others, though for that career to continue leaving Scotland might be required, but to do it, a conscience and bravery, hitherto missing, would surely be required.

I’d suggest that, rather than do that comparison between those cheats, the ‘anger’ of the Scottish media aimed at Sam Allardyce will dwindle quicker than might otherwise be the case. Notably, when challenged in this manner, Jackson ran to the hills, or, rather, to bed! 

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naegreetinPosted on10:57 am - Sep 28, 2016


Re Bungs

As a DUFC supporter , Stephen Thompson came up with his solution to the transfer money conundrum by giving Jackie Mcnamara a cut of transfer dealings (sales) as part of his contract – didn’t work out , mainly because Jackie didn’t turn out to be the whizz kid as first thought .
I don’t think wee Jim (McLean) could be accused of prospering on transfer deals with his 1980’s galacticos – he had them on 10 year + deals so they (most of them) never got a big money deal in their careers (pre Bosman) . it was rumoured Brian Clough “loved a bung” on transfers so it is nothing new in the game .

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wottpiPosted on11:49 am - Sep 28, 2016


Unfortunately the Allardyce case is just another one of the ‘high and mighty’ trying to profit and satisfy their own greed on the back of other peoples efforts.

Footballers become decent from a number of factors. Generally it is genetics and a bit of decent coaching at a young age. Their development there after comes from the day to day coaching through their youth from unsung coaches. By the time they make the grade their ‘managers’, agents and accountants will have little effect on the player. 

Yes a top manager may be able to motivate and man manage the player to get the best out of him but his ability will in the main have been preset and then kept on track by others further down the management/coaching food chain.

Why some people think that are entitled to a bung for what is very limited input is beyond me.

If they handed the cash back to the player’s old boys club or community then it would just about be acceptable. However to trouser the money when you are already raking in 100 of 1000s then it is just greed greed and more greed.

As our Grannies all told us – ‘Hell mend ye!!’

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John ClarkPosted on1:29 pm - Sep 28, 2016


By jings, the old “Scotsman” must really be toiling, staff-wise!
I rang their switchboard number a few minutes ago and got a recorded message to the effect that they couldn’t take calls, and to try later. An unstaffed switchboard for a national newspaper? My word!
Anyway, I have an email to send to one Matt Butler who has a piece about the Allardyce matter in today’s issue .I thought he was with the Independent, but maybe he is freelance. Whatever, I haven’t got an email address for him. Any ideas?
But here’s what I will send him ( he may be English and live in England, but if he gets football-related pieces into the ‘Scotsman’  then, in my view, that makes him part of the SMSM!)
“Dear Matt,
 I quote from your piece in today’s “The Scotsman”
” …Call it old-fashioned but going ga-ga when some so-called businessmen dangle £400,000 in your face for the small price of explaining how to circumvent a few rules is fairly far along along the mercenary spectrum, especially when you remember that Allardyce’s basic salary is £3 million a year..”
And, of course, I happily agree with your view.
But, you will forgive me asking, where was your assessment of how far along the ‘mercenary spectrum’ Sir David Murray was, that he was so motivated to cheat the whole of Scottish Football by a decade’s worth of false returns to the SFA and the then SPL as to the rates of remuneration he was paying his players: rates his club could never, by his own admission, have afforded without adopting such a high-risk tax ‘avoidance’ strategy that he had to hide it from HMRC for fear of possible difficulties with them? And he being a much-lauded and venerated  multi-millionaire at that, not merely a £3 million a year paid employee.
There is something really repulsive about the SMSM’s hypocritical relish  in getting ‘tore intae’ the Allardyce story, having closed ranks to cover up the whole dirty sorry mess caused by that the knighted but dishonourable  self-styled ‘dupe’ who was allowed to walk away from it with scarce a serious question asked.
And there is something really, really disquieting about  the lack of concern in the SMSM about the highly questionable failure of the SFA, the governing body, to spot the systematic cheating of SDM, or to square up to it and all its tawdry consequences for Scottish Football with the integrity and bravery that the FA has shown in the Allardyce matter.
Yours sincerely,
JC

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on2:08 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Gaun yersel JC0404

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Bogs DolloxPosted on2:19 pm - Sep 28, 2016


John ClarkSeptember 28, 2016 at 13:29
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John
A small suggestion if I may.
I understand your contempt and frustration with the SMSM but I can’t help feeling that your email to this journalist could be a little less accusatory.

Given that he is a freelancer a nicely worded request for him, reciting the facts, asking him to have a look at the TRFC/Murray scandal might make him better disposed to looking at it with a fresh eye. The more you lay it on a plate for guys like him the more success you will have!

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:12 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Latest nonsense from the copy/paste lot;
 
“Rangers were NEVER going to win the league this season but there’s no need to panic yet – David McCarthy”
 
Extracted from the DR, this screaming headline itself raises a few questions ;
 
1) I could have sworn that the SMSM were continually talking up TRFC before this season, and they had repeatedly asserted that only CFC would be TRFC’s main challenger ?  
I must have just dreamt that up, a la Bobby Ewing in the shower this morning ?
 
2) “…no need to panic yet…”: is that aimed at just TRFC and the bears or at all Scottish football fans ?  
The SMSM have pasted continuously over the last 4+ years – and unchallenged – that Scottish football simply needs ‘a Rangers’ to survive.
So should us Internet Bampots stops panicking as well ?
I must have missed that particular memo, as I am actually quite OK with TRFC’s dismal start to the season, [violence, etc. aside.]
 
3) “…no need to panic yet…”: or is that a Freudian slip by McCarthy – to calm the fears of his fellow sports churnalists in Scotland ?
As in: don’t worry chaps, the Rangers will come good – and we can all get back to the way it was before, and relax.
 
Reminds me of the Craigie Bhoy days, when the SMSM had no choice but to do an embarrassing U-turn eventually, but then brazenly claim that they had always said that Whyte was a bad ‘un, etc…  

At least the SMSM are undeniably accomplished at revisionism…if not journalism.  :sheep:

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Pat ByrnePosted on4:04 pm - Sep 28, 2016


JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 28, 2016 at 13:29

Matt Butlers twitter address might be worth a try
https://twitter.com/mattbutler503

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on5:13 pm - Sep 28, 2016


http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=16527
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/Disciplinary/Decision%20of%20Judicial%20Panel%20-%20Hibernian%20FC.pdf

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on5:24 pm - Sep 28, 2016


“No further action against Hibs or Rangers over cup final disorder
Andy Coyle
A Scottish FA panel has dismissed the complaint against Hibs and dropped the charge against Rangers…”
http://stv.tv/sport/football/1368356-no-further-action-against-hibs-or-rangers-over-cup-final-disorder/
======================
Curious.
…and I think some people might be raging about this decision ?

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John ClarkPosted on6:12 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Not a word of apology from Allardyce. On the contrary, he is a ‘victim’,not a disgusting chancer, and just stupid for being caught. Another feckin ‘dupe’.
Honest to God!

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wottpiPosted on6:13 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Interesting stuff coming from the Judicial panel showing that the SFA don’t know their arse from their elbow.
Also interesting to note that McKenzie acting for the Edinburgh Team was trying to ensure it was agreed within a legal context who exactly holds the SFA membership and how the proper designations should be used by the SFA for clarity as opposed to the vague terms used around the metaphysical entity.

[6] For similar reasons, we do not accept that the designation of the subject of thecomplaint as Hibernian FC is fatal to the complaint. We recognise that the memberof the SFA is The Hibernian Football Club limited; we further recognise that in thecontext of the commission of Lord Nimmo Smith the precise identification of themember responsible for the club was a material concern. But we are not persuadedthat there is either ambiguity or confusion in the name in which this complaint runs.We were provided with material in which the term “Hibernian FC” was usedapparently interchangeably with “The Hibernian Football Club Limited”. Again, forthe avoidance of future challenges, the Compliance Officer may wish to use theproper designation of the offending party in future complaints. But for this matter,approaching the matter pragmatically and in the football context, we find that thereis nothing in this point.

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briggsbhoyPosted on6:22 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Had a bit of a laugh today. A customer (who is a good Rangers fan) called me today concerning a failure on a product I had sold to his company back in 2013. He was aware that my previous employers had gone belly up and he wanted to know some details concerning the product and why it could have failed. It turns out he was being chased by the financial director of one of his customers. They in turn were being sued it would seem by the end user for major product failure. After giving him some advice I said that at the end of the day my former employers were liquidated therefore he just needed to tell his customer “sorry there’s nothing I can do the company was liquidated in 2013, so I have nobody to address on the matter”.
After that I thought I’d send an email to my customer because another company bought some of the assets and retained the original name. They are located elsewhere but still use the name of my former employers. So I told my friend that should his client come back to him and hightlight that the company still exists he should respond as follows. I’m sorry but the original company went into liquidation as you can see from the link I’ve provided . The company you mention only bought some of the assets and retained the name but they have no connection I’m afraid. I then added “does this sounds familiar to a football team in the SPL that you are very familiar with lol ! Just walk away from this one …lol

On another point regarding Allardyce I recall being told by a very good source that the former England manager was one of the boys who was always looking for a bung on transfers. I cant recall exactly the story behind it but I do recall being told that another former premiership manager used to use the expression “is there a cup of tea in it for me”

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:04 pm - Sep 28, 2016


BRIGGSBHOYSEPTEMBER 28, 2016 at 18:22
The company you mention only bought some of the assets and retained the name but they have no connection I’m afraid. I then added “does this sounds familiar to a football team in the SPFL that you are very familiar with lol ! Just walk away from this one …lol
Ok i’ll get my coat;-)

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:34 pm - Sep 28, 2016


WOTTPISEPTEMBER 28, 2016 at 18:13

“…But we are not persuaded that there is either ambiguity or confusion in the name in which this complaint runs.We were provided with material in which the term “Hibernian FC” was used apparently interchangeably with “The Hibernian Football Club Limited”. Again, for the avoidance of future challenges, the Compliance Officer may wish to use the proper designation of the offending party in future complaints. But for this matter, approaching the matter pragmatically and in the football context, we find that there is nothing in this point.
=============================
I’m reading that last sentence as: it’s not an issue for us, but if in future there is a case taken to the Court of Session, then it could become a problem.

Allardyce: couldn’t believe he got the job in the first place.  
After the BBC expose years ago – and his loud threats that his lawyers were going to sue (which came to nothing) – he should not have even been considered.  His main selling points seemed to be his lengthy EPL experience – although a ‘journeyman’ manager – and that he was English.

I thought Wenger could have been a good fit then, but now IMO, Klinsmann would be decent choice…erm, but I don’t think he’s
English… 15

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on7:37 pm - Sep 28, 2016


briggsbhoy
September 28, 2016 at 18:22
————————————————————————————–
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-eight-premier-league-managers-took-transfer-bungs-clai/
 
 
“Pino Pagliara, an unlicenced Italian agent who was banned from football for five years for match-fixing in 2005, spoke openly about his reliance on the “greed” of managers.
At San Carlo, the Italian restaurant that doubles as the football world’s meeting room, the names of “bent” football managers tripped off his tongue as easily as the prosecco bubbles popped in his wine glass.
The football agent lowered his voice as he named a well-known manager who, he said, asks if there will be “a little coffee” for him if a transfer deal goes through – code for a backhander.”

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parttimearabPosted on9:54 pm - Sep 28, 2016


WOTTPI
SEPTEMBER 28,  2016 at 18:13
==========================
I note that while the panel rejected the…error…over the designation of the club (cough) they suggested that the SFA might want to tighten up on that in future 12
Bit late 10 

I assume the charges against Rangers were dropped as the consideration of Hibs covered the same ground? 

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John ClarkPosted on9:55 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Pat ByrneSeptember 28, 2016 at 16:04
‘..Matt Butlers twitter address might be worth a try.’
______
Thanks, Pat Byrne. I have a Twitter account which I don’t really know how to use , but I’ll have a go.

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John ClarkPosted on10:13 pm - Sep 28, 2016


Bogs DolloxSeptember 28, 2016 at 14:19
‘…Given that he is a freelancer a nicely worded request for him, reciting the facts, asking him to have a look at the TRFC/Murray scandal might make him better disposed to looking at it with a fresh eye. .’
____________
Wise words, Bogs Dollox. When I do make contact with him, I will explain more fully the  context in which in which I was writing, although, mind you, I’m sure he won’t be so insular in his football perspective as not to be to some extent aware of the cheating of SDM, etc etc.

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bluPosted on10:18 pm - Sep 28, 2016


If no-one else is going to mention, I will. Outstanding performance,great entertainment and good result. Pride restored.

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goosygoosyPosted on10:38 pm - Sep 28, 2016


BLUSEPTEMBER 28, 2016 at 22:18  
If no-one else is going to mention, I will. Outstanding performance,great entertainment and good result. Pride restored.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well seeing you mentioned it
Never struck me before tonight but the entire outlay in hiring BR including his staff and the players he bought will probably be recouped just by the sale of Dembele in a couple of years time
Leaving the CL money for this season(and hopefully more seasons) as pure profit

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killie1962Posted on11:31 pm - Sep 28, 2016


For my friend Jimbo, currently enjoying a wee break in Spain, that was a helluvah game. I watched it in a British Bar herer in Santa Rosa and there were a lot of Man City fans there but at the end of the game thee was just roars of joy. Nobody was  expecting a game like this. I am heading for my bed, too many beers but made much more friends and a great atmosphere. I am proud of your teams performance, I follow every Scottish club in Europe but that game tonight was something special.
yours in sport
Gaun the Killie

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tearsofjoyPosted on11:58 pm - Sep 28, 2016


I haven’t followed the The Rangers/Rangers/Sevco – Hibs/Hibernian/HibsPLC/Whatever post cup final conflagration too closely but my take on things is that “The Edinburgh Club” decided that they weren’t going to be tried for a bad day out when the Scottish football “authorities” have acted like Pilate for the last 130 years a propos “The Glasgow Clubs”. If they did – well done them. 
So, can the Glasgow media please ask the Scottish football authorities why they convened this fiasco in the first place – when they KNEW the clubs could not possibly be held accountable ie no strict liability.
A face saving and embarrassing farce – Scottish football was dragged through the mud (not for the first time) but the SFA can’t take any action – because , as an organisation , it has already decided it does not want the powers to do so , as demonstrated by its member clubs. What a joke.

On a more topical point – 
as the late Brian Clough has been mentioned in this thread , a wee question for you : which Scottish club paid Cloughie a holdall full of money for bringing his team up north for  a testimonial ?
the manager of which Scottish club blocked the transfer of a player because he didn’t get a bung ? The manager in question is regarded with the utmost probity by the fans but I am assured is as corrupted as any of the current crop of managers being mentioned by The Telegraph.
Of course, these are merely allegations as I have no first hand knowledge of the events – but I can tell you the sources are impeccable.

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Pat ByrnePosted on12:23 am - Sep 29, 2016


It must be me but when does money grab you so deeply that when you are earning vast amounts it then becomes the be all and end all in your life? When does this become more important than the person your friends, family and peers would want to perceive you as? is it like serving an apprenticeship and and then pushing the boat out to be the best at your game. I really don’t think so, it is greed, bred by being in a world that controls your life when your mind set means  that what you have done all your life has got you where you are regardless of how it affected those around you, where you lose the realisation that what you are actually doing is morally corrupt and it no longer registers in your moral code and obscures your vision of right and wrong, it is where you have been caught with your pants down only to blame the pimp for setting you up and then cry foul. 
This is the reality of BIG money football, this is what happens when those who offer nothing take control, all to the detriment of the masses , this is why I would never contribute to sky, bt or any of the other charlatans that bastardise OUR game to their ends, sadly the game my team was involved in tonight will overide all of this, why? simple, an underdog gave a stick on certainty something to think about and by feck don’t we all love the underdog! 

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John ClarkPosted on12:25 am - Sep 29, 2016


StevieBCSeptember 28, 2016 at 19:34
‘…..We were provided with material in which the term “Hibernian FC” was used apparently interchangeably with “The Hibernian Football Club Limited”. Again, for the avoidance of future challenges, the Compliance Officer may wish to use the proper designation of the offending party in future complaints.
______
You will have noticed, StevieBC, that the charge sheet reads:
‘A Judicial Panel convened for the purposes of a preliminary hearing on the following Notices of Complaint: Alleged party in breach: Hibernian FC Match: Hibernian FC v Rangers FC (Scottish Cup Final – Saturday 21st May 2016)’

The Judicial Panel takes the Compliance Officer to task for not naming one of the parties properly. He is told that the proper name for one party is ‘The Hibernian Football Club Limited’.
Why was he not also told that the proper name of the other party is “The Rangers Football Club Limited”?
Why else,other than that, at least unconsciously, the members of the Panel ( like BBC Sportsound and the general run of the SMSM ) buy into and propagate  the Big Lie that TRFC are really and truly  Rangers FC of old, and do not wish on any account to be seen to depart from the SFA propaganda line?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on9:27 am - Sep 29, 2016


TEARSOFJOYSEPTEMBER 28, 2016 at 23:58 
I haven’t followed the The Rangers/Rangers/Sevco – Hibs/Hibernian/HibsPLC/Whatever post cup final conflagration too closely but my take on things is that “The Edinburgh Club” decided that they weren’t going to be tried for a bad day out when the Scottish football “authorities” have acted like Pilate for the last 130 years a propos “The Glasgow Clubs”. If they did – well done them. So, can the Glasgow media please ask the Scottish football authorities why they convened this fiasco in the first place – when they KNEW the clubs could not possibly be held accountable ie no strict liability.A face saving and embarrassing farce – Scottish football was dragged through the mud (not for the first time) but the SFA can’t take any action – because , as an organisation , it has already decided it does not want the powers to do so , as demonstrated by its member clubs. What a joke.
On a more topical point – as the late Brian Clough has been mentioned in this thread , a wee question for you : which Scottish club paid Cloughie a holdall full of money for bringing his team up north for  a testimonial ?the manager of which Scottish club blocked the transfer of a player because he didn’t get a bung ? The manager in question is regarded with the utmost probity by the fans but I am assured is as corrupted as any of the current crop of managers being mentioned by The Telegraph.Of course, these are merely allegations as I have no first hand knowledge of the events – but I can tell you the sources are impeccable.
___________________
LNS mark 2 possibly? Eyewash for the masses, even. Does the SFA believe we are all as stupid as the inept fools in the SMSM, and so can’t work out for ourselves that they, the SFA, are as impotent as they are incompetent, and think that they can hide their failings behind pointless inquiries and tribunals?

It’ll serve them right if the govenment steps in as a result of this dumping of responsibility, and puts in place something that makes heavy, self imposed, but manageable, fines quite desirable!  

Still, when the board of one particular club isn’t held accountable for their own rabble rousing, why should any other club accept responsibility for the actions of their own supporters?

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upthehoopsPosted on10:03 am - Sep 29, 2016


PAT BYRNESEPTEMBER 29, 2016 at 00:23
 
It must be me but when does money grab you so deeply that when you are earning vast amounts it then becomes the be all and end all in your life?

================================

At the risk of the mods rapping my knuckles for getting political, such attitudes became permissible the day Thatcher was voted into power.  Greedy football managers may be topical, but cast your eyes around and see the abject greed in our society from some people.  Bankers and Company Directors who award themselves huge bonuses for a start, but it goes a lot lower down the line than that. Thatcher made sure 60% of society were doing fine, and to hell with the other 40%. I see people on a day to day basis who seem utterly consumed by money, and the material advantages it brings. I see people who judge others only by the material possessions they have. Thankfully I also see many people who look beyond that when judging a person, but there can be no doubt the ‘greed is good’ attitude is very strong these days.

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vascodaparsPosted on10:43 am - Sep 29, 2016


I agree whole-heartedly with UTH that Thatcher changed things for the worse but I think much of her legacy was a result of using other peoples’ greed to her own advantage politically. The selling off of council houses and mass privitisation being the obvious areas. thing is, if the Argentinians hadn’t invaded the Falkland/Malvinas islands she’d have been out in 1984. I wonder though why she didn’t get to privitising the railways before she was emptied by her Tory colleagues for the poll tax fiasco. 

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SmugasPosted on10:53 am - Sep 29, 2016


Just a quick query.  Is the “Mackenzie” referred to who represented the Hibs Clumpany in Goalpost-gate one and the same as the guy who represented (poorly in my opinion) the case against RFCold clumpany in LNS?  The guy who had the car accident maybe a month previously? 

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ulyanovaPosted on11:00 am - Sep 29, 2016


Good morning John Clark
You ask why the Judicial Panel only concerned itself with the proper name  for one of the parties alleged to be in breach.
Simply put the lawyer appearing for Hibernian FC (aka The Hibernian Football Club Ltd} attempted to have the entire case dismissed on the grounds that they had been cited incorrectly.
While this defence would, of course, have been open to the other party it was not put to the panel.
Who knows why?22

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wottpiPosted on11:22 am - Sep 29, 2016


SMUGASSEPTEMBER 29, 2016 at 10:53

Yes it was in the press a wee while back Hibs had hired SPFL solicitor Rod MacKenzie who had represented the SPL in previous matters.

As an apparent  stickler for details it therefore surprising he did not delve deeper into the Bryson interpretation.

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SmugasPosted on11:49 am - Sep 29, 2016


WOTTPI

Just intrigued me that he was the first to formally take up the distinguishable difference between club and SFA member Company.  Bordering on ironic even. 

Particularly this quote from the SFA’s response

we further recognise that in the context of the commission of Lord Nimmo Smith the precise identification of the member responsible for the club was a material concern.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on11:50 am - Sep 29, 2016


A genuine ‘well done’ to Celtic on a great performance and result last night. Watched the game on a dodgy stream and missed some of the goals and difficult to get a feel for the game, but (whispers it) found myself cheering out loud when the second and third goals went in (missed first one, when stream froze as ball crossed 18 yard line from free kick).

If Celtic can repeat last night’s performance, and maybe get a win or two, then Brendan Rodger’s standing will surely rise, and that would highlight yet another shortcoming in the English game – they can’t produce decent English born coaches and managers, though there’s plenty of hype surrounding each and every one of them, and they do attract such great respect!

I’d suggest that Brendan Rodgers would have been a far better choice for the FA than Allardyce, even without the latest revelations, and Celtic supporters should be concerned that last night’s result doesn’t put him on the FA’s radar (as opposed to being quoted by the bookies along with someone who definitely demands more respect than Sam Allardyce).

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John ClarkPosted on11:54 am - Sep 29, 2016


ulyanovaSeptember 29, 2016 at 11:00
‘.Good morning John ClarkYou ask why the Judicial Panel only concerned itself with the proper name for one of the parties alleged to be in breach.’
______
And good morning to you, Tovarich Ulynanova! (Interesting nom-de-plume: has it a special significance for you?).
Yes, I reckon the TRFC rep thought it better not to try to use the ‘wrong name’ defence.
I would have thought that if the Panel were to be critical of the details of the drafting of the charges, they should in thoroughness  have mentioned that both parties had been incorrectly named.
I have no doubt that they also thought it healthier  not to draw attention to the Big Lie. And, thus, in their own way, they contribute to the propagation of it.

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SmugasPosted on12:08 pm - Sep 29, 2016


Again JC hence my interest in, of all people, Rod Mckenzie bringing it up.  I cant see that it brought anything more to his defence.  

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Billy BoycePosted on12:51 pm - Sep 29, 2016


Re: the Hibs v TRFC judicial panel outcome.  I wonder why the panel was commissioned to deal with events AFTER the final whistle.  Why did the Compliance Officer ignore potential offences during the match?  I am not concerned so much about the sectarian singing/chanting from the TRFC end but I do regard flares and smoke bombs being let off in the same section as highly dangerous, particularly in a crowded terrace containing thousands of innocent fans and children.  Only a few short months ago the same SFA fined another member club for precisely that following an away cup-tie at Stranraer.  If such actions are now considered beyond the remit of the SFA then it is only fair that the penalised club should be reimbursed accordingly. 

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wottpiPosted on1:01 pm - Sep 29, 2016


The Judicial Panel was dealing with the case against Hibernian FC –  not Hibernian FC and Rangers FC together.

The role of ‘Rangers FC’ therefore had nothing to do with the hearing.

MacKenzie was merely being ‘lawyerly’ in pointing out the technical issue  that the panel was maybe not actually dealing with his client, much in the same way if a summons was issued to a Mr Rod McKenzie as opposed to a Mr Rod MacKenzie he would be within his rights to say it was nowt to do with him.

Like the Bryson interpretation is appears the panel’s ruling was quickly accepted by all. That being Hibernian FC could not be punished within the current rules for the actions of their fans at a stadium and event the club had no managerial or operational control over. (Sweep sweep, teflon dans, nowt to do with me Guv, for heavens sake don’t even whisper Strict Liability).

It then follows that it was pointless pursuing ‘Rangers FC’ on a similar basis therefore any tricky issues about names/clubs, defending attacked players, sectarian singing, flares etc are nicely avoided.

Hibs cough up for the damage caused by their fans and try to move on with dignity.
1872 come out with more statements and anger.

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John ClarkPosted on1:14 pm - Sep 29, 2016


“The Football Association, Premier League and Football League issued a joint statement about the allegations.
“English football takes the governance of the game extremely seriously with integrity being of paramount importance,” it read. “Any substantive allegations will be investigated with the full force of rules at our disposal.”
__________
We hope thye are not spouting pious cant: like another set of football governance folk not far from us!

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upthehoopsPosted on1:19 pm - Sep 29, 2016


ALLYJAMBOSEPTEMBER 29, 2016 at 11:50

=================================

I don’t know Brendan Rodgers but I don’t think he would be remotely interested in leaving Celtic to take the England job.  He said the last time he was mentioned that managing Celtic is a ‘dream job’ for him and you can clearly see he is loving it. Much like Martin O’Neill it appears as if it is a stamp on his CV he was determined to get at one point in his career.  He is of course very well remunerated for it and the England job would certainly pay even more. However Rodgers and his ex-wife have a very wealthy property portfolio, much of it in London, and journalists who know him are quoted as saying he would never need to work in football again. Having said that I don’t believe he will be at Celtic forever.  My guess is 3-4 years max, then he will seek another attractive posting down south, but the Celtic experience is one he will never forget as a Celtic fan, and one he felt he had to do. I do not believe the England job will be close to his radar. 

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on1:51 pm - Sep 29, 2016


vascodapars
September 29, 2016 at 10:43
 
“before she was emptied by her Tory colleagues for the poll tax fiasco.”
——————————————————————————————
This was the event which “emptied”  her.
 
GEOFFREY HOWE   Resignation Statement, House of Commons
13th November 1990

This cricketing metaphor was the killer punch:-
“It is rather like sending your opening batsmen to the crease only for them to find, the moment the first balls are bowled, that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain”

Most of his speech was about Europe.

One week later the “Iron lady” faced a challenge from pro European  Michael Heseltine

She won the ballot but did not have a lead over Heseltine so a second ballot was called giving John Major a decisive lead but still short. So a third ballot would be needed  but Heseline and Hurd withdrew leaving John Major to be elected unopposed.

In other words” anyone but Thatcher.”

John Major became leader on the 27th November 1990 and was invited to become Prime Minister the next day
 

!5 days after Howe’s speech Thatcher was history.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:17 pm - Sep 29, 2016


PAT BYRNE
SEPTEMBER 29, 2016 at 00:23… It must be me but when does money grab you so deeply that when you are earning vast amounts it then becomes the be all and end all in your life?
=====================
Don’t think us Bampots could answer that question PB.

Mibbees that question could be posed to someone like ‘happy’ Dave King ?

A multimillionaire [ex- ?] who had the typical lifestyle trappings, but yet still felt the need to claim on his SA tax return that he earned c.GBP5K a year, IIRC – before he was busted. 

Money doesn’t buy you happiness…but it does buy you a better class of misery.  14

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Billy BoycePosted on3:57 pm - Sep 29, 2016


It is obvious to my mind that the UEFA disciplinary official has done a deal with Celtic F.C. over the €10,000 (£8,500) fine re: displaying an offensive banner.  Because of previous offences by the Celtic supporters, I expected a far harsher punishment – even the closure of a stand.  Celtic get off with a fairly petty fine and UEFA are seen to be stamping down on political protests – aye, right!
 
I am assuming that the offensive banners were the Palestinian flags being waved by the Green Brigade?  UEFA was careful not to mention them as such in its findings.  Surely the time has come for clubs to take UEFA to task for the banning of legitimate national flags and anthems?  I do hope the club escaped punishment for the Israeli flag that was displayed in the South Stand corporate section by a visiting Jewish dignitary, keen to show his support for the away team.
 
Maybe the time has come for all clubs involved in European competitions to be issued with a specific list of dos and don’ts.  The Palestinian flag may be repugnant to certain European clubs – but so might the union jack.  It will be interesting to see how UEFA tackles the Spanish situation from now on.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:18 pm - Sep 29, 2016


BILLY BOYCESEPTEMBER 29, 2016 at 15:57 It is obvious to my mind that the UEFA disciplinary official has done a deal with Celtic F.C. over the €10,000 (£8,500) fine…
==========================
Yes, it certainly looks that way BB.

UEFA – and FIFA – should simply stick to trying to administer football, and nothing else.
Whilst it is of course laudable to promoting e.g. ‘Respect’, it is totally undermined when it is promoted by openly corrupt organisations.
[Same applies to the numpties at Hampden.]

UEFA and FIFA are not very good at managing world football, and should get that sorted first – and long before they try and become ‘champions’ of assorted, non-football objectives. 

[Would be great if CFC matched the monies raised by the fans for Palestinian charities.  It would be a positive move after the board rejected the ‘living wage’ proposal for its employees.  The Board owes the fans, IMO, for attracting positive, global coverage for the club as a result of their compassionate initiative.]

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wottpiPosted on4:38 pm - Sep 29, 2016


STEVIEBCSEPTEMBER 29, 2016 at 16:18 
UEFA – and FIFA – should simply stick to trying to administer football, and nothing else.
—————————————————————————————–

Of course a lot of time, trouble, effort and money could be saved if
‘Fans should simply stick to trying to support their football club, and nothing else.’

I appreciate that football provides an ideal opportunity to publicize certain issues but can’t help feel clubs and the majority of fans are, at times, hi-jacked by folk who are determined to grind axes on all manner of things.

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easyJamboPosted on4:47 pm - Sep 29, 2016


The Scottish Government has added their tuppenceworth to the Cup Final decision.

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The disorder that marred the Scottish Cup Final was unacceptable and we are disappointed by this outcome.

“It is essential that robust, meaningful measures are in place to allow such behaviour to be dealt with effectively.

“Independent research shows that fans overwhelmingly support the goal of eradicating offensive behaviour from matches.

“We have been clear that we will take steps if the progress we need to see isn’t being made.

“Our preference remains that football should proactively deliver a solution and we are continuing to working closely with the authorities and clubs to encourage them to do so.”

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