It has taken a year longer than predicted, but a critical appraisal of TRFC’s progress through the lower leagues must include recognition of the improvements on the playing field made under the new manager Mark Warburton. SFM usually precludes lengthy discussion on subjective issues like relative abilities of players and managers and referees, but on this subject, and by any objective standard, that is a given.
It is therefore right that he and his players should receive the congratulations of us all at SFM.
It has to be said that, despite the pitfalls, man-traps and honey-pots that remain to be successfully negotiated by the Rangers board, they have implemented their own stark version austerity, contrary to their rhetoric, whilst managing the expectations of their supporters. Perhaps some of what we have come to term “reasonable” Rangers fans would argue that the lack of humility still evident in the demeanour of the TRFC board is an essential part of managing those fans whilst imposing the austerity package on them.
Much like a political party conference, a football board has to play to it’s core support as well as the rest of the country.
How that will pan out is anybody’s guess, just like the random bagatelle that is the “TRFC in Court” saga.
There is also the existential problem to deal with. Many TRFC fans bought into the ‘same club’ myth at the outset, not because they actually believed it, but because it suited them, and because it served as an understandable GIRUY to the rest of us. With the passage of time, the suspension of disbelief, even in that constituency, is now complete and arguably irreversible. The problem for them is that the rest of have not subscribed to that rather bizarre set of contradictions. No other club has to have the “company that operates” prefix. Nor does any other club compel observers to skirt around the facts and search for a form of words acceptable to both sides of a mutually exclusive argument. In short, and existentially, the new Rangers don’t fit into the same kind of comfortable groove that other clubs do.
All of these problems for the new club, and many more, will exercise our minds to a greater or lesser extent moving forward, depending on how sensitive our outrage thresholds are to the various legal and Jungian issues. However we at SFM need to focus our sights on those whose maladministration of football gave rise to those problems in the first place – the SFA, SPFL, and by extension, the clubs – all of them.
Here are some facts;
- The SFA award clubs a licence to participate in UEFA competitions.
- The licence is only to be awarded if the applicant club has no unpaid tax debts.
- Both the club and the SFA have responsibility to notify UEFA of any debts (belt and braces routine in case the club ‘forgets’ to notify the SFA).
- In 2011, one club applied for and was awarded a UEFA licence.
- That club had accepted debts to HMRC – which were outstanding and overdue.
- These facts have been in the public domain since 2012,and were brought to the attention of ALL clubs in Scotland as well as the SFA.
- Nothing has been done by any club, or the SFA, to investigate the claim at #5
- SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan, when asked by an SFM member what he would do if these claims could be substantiated, said; “Nothing!”
- All clubs will be within a few weeks, issuing season ticket renewal forms.
The story contained in points 6 and 7 above is a lengthy and protracted one.
From sources inside two clubs I have been informed that the problem here is subversive and obsessive fans, who don’t represent the vast body of fans generally. On points 1-5, my sources refused to comment. Conversations with SFA officials and print journalists yield the same reaction, with the addition that it is “just Celtic fans obsessed with Rangers” making the claims.
The lesson, if there is one worthy of the name, is that the bearers of the message need to attacked, and the message itself ignored. We could speculate why that is, but that would be to fall into the trap, taking our eye off the ball.
Perhaps I am being naïve, but my inference is that the SFA and clubs have no intention of doing anything about what was at best incompetence on an unbelievable scale, or at worst corruption. A source at Celtic Park was complaining in victim-like fashion to SFM that many Celtic fans were threatening to close their season book accounts over this issue, and that Rangers might have 45,000 SBs next season whilst Celtic could be down to as low as 20,000.
It had never occurred to him that actually supporting an investigation into SFA malpractice would add another 10,000 to the SB takeup.
Overall, the clubs and the SFA want us to believe that an investigation into this licensing issue is a Celtic or Rangers thing. It is neither of those.
An investigation, even if finds that corruption or incompetence has taken place cannot harm Rangers – old or new. There are no titles to strip here. The licence has been used and thrown away, so it cannot be “un – awarded”.
The only people who have anything to lose out of this are those individuals who allowed it to happen – those who our clubs seem so keen to protect.
More importantly, an investigation may be the catalyst for changes in procedures at the SFA to ensure that rigorous accountability is enforced -accountability that the clubs are eager to avoid.
Are we wrong? I hope we are not foolish enough to imagine that everything we believe is set in stone. I am confident that we are correct in our assumptions and in our interpretation of the facts, but please, let’s hear the counter-argument. Thus far, not one word of rebuttal save the usual invective reserved for the messenger has been uttered.
So what do we do? For me it is simple. If we really love our sport, and do nothing, the sport is lost to us completely and irrevocably.
If our view that sporting integrity has been killed off by those in charge of the game is correct, we lose nothing by embarking on a season ticket boycott. However by doing so we may awaken those in charge to the realities of our power as fans and prioritise in their minds the need to listen to what we say.
My view? if they ignore us, they can take their industry that they pretend is sport, and put it somewhere away from my reach. I neither want it nor need it.
If enough of us feel the same way, we WILL get a clean game. If we are as few as the MSM claim we are, at least we will have freed ourselves from a bent one.
I won’t be buying any more season books until I see these issues addressed. It certainly is tough love, but it is the only way for me. And it is driven by love – a love of the game I spent decades supporting, thinking that on the whole it was played on a level playing field. Certainly not driven by a sneering disregard for truth and integrity and a worship of acquisition.
Maybe it’s not just the end of Rangers’ journey then. Certainly if it’s not the end of ours, we find ourselves at a crossroads. The fans, the clubs, and Rangers too. The decision we make over the next few months may determine the future of our clubs, our sport, our Saturday afternoons.
I can tell you this though. Even when the dark facts are laid before us starkly as this, and when football is at the mercy of those who really do hate sport for its own sake, it is worth mentioning the common thread of decency and purpose we have all shared here on SFM, the friendships we have forged, and the love of football we have demonstrated.
Reiver, Glad you had a good night out with your pals. I did too, Frank McAvennie was – blah – the comedian speaker, Peter Brown? from Falkirk was brilliant.
Now that you have calmed down, I used to be a member of the Labour Party. Not everyone is an activist, there are many who pay up, do a bit, but you won’t find them in in Hyde Parks Corner speaking from a soap box.
Prior to Tony Blair I used to trudge the streets putting pamphlets through the doors but I wouldn’t be one of those people who engaged one on one with the voters, I wasn’t confident enough to know all the answers.
There is varying degrees of support to your cause. You are one of those people at the forefront, I admire that. And if I had a printer I would print off your stuff and leave it lying around.
But never forget that just joining in on the conversation on here is important. Many don’t.
In the bad old days of the cold war, it was ‘writers’ who kept things real in the soviet union. For some on here that is as far as it goes but it is at least something, it should not be sneered at. Not a comparable situation obviously.
I still think you are a great dedicated poster for the avoidance of doubt. And I have supported you in past. I was in the early group who petitioned. And left a link on Etims.
Thanks for that Jimbo.
My problem is that I realise that the lack of access to the media is magnified so greatly if those that know the issue won’t help inform others of it. I really believe we are in danger of losing traction. BP’s concern of activity on SFM confirms that I believe.
By the way, I only said that I am mellow just now. Wait till tomorrow when my team is in the championship second place showdown. I think I’ll ask my wife to hide my keyboard. Just in case, you realise.
John Clark’s excellent report on court proceedings are here at http://wp.me/p7iObi-1bC
Once again, our thanks to John for his efforts. Lots of stuff in there which appear to have been passed through the MSM filters.
Just posted for the first time a few weeks ago and was given encouragement when I said I had emailed Celtic and I said I would come back on to share conversations, for what it’s worth.
I read with interest about the possibility that the Celtic board might be cherry picking some to speak to while ignoring others. No idea, but I remain a non-renewer until I witness a change in tack.
Anyway, after some time I received a reply from Celtic (JP Taylor). As he was very keen to stress that not only has the club been making every effort around Res 12, but also that such efforts have barely been reported on or recognised, my guess is that I think he would be happy for me to give an account of the series of email exchanges between us. I certainly had no indication it was confidential.
My email, headed ‘Season ticket renewal dilemma’, while providing background on my years supporting Celtic, and the emotional and financial commitments I feel I have made, really boiled down to the following questions:
Will the club make a statement clarifying its position regarding Resolution 12 and the granting of the UEFA licence to Rangers?
Will the club make any statement clarifying its position regarding improper registration of Rangers players which ought to have resulted in points deductions?
Will the club offer any stance to its supporters as regards the identity of the club that the media informs us is, along with Celtic, the Old Firm?
Does the club feel in any way aggrieved that it and its supporters have spent money on what appears to be a competition involving a financially doped competitor?
Does the club join with the media in its excitement for the ‘return’ of Rangers to the top flight?
JP replied indicating that as a rule:
….the Club has a policy not to comment on internet speculation however this is a sustained campaign which has no foundation.
…, also stating that
The Club has done all it can on the matter of Resolution 12 and supporters can be assured it will continue to do so.
I replied, querying him on what he meant when he said ‘this is a sustained campaign which has no foundation.’
Subsequently from JP, the explanation was that the point he was making was that the Club has acted on the matter and has done for a few years but that point doesn’t seem to come through in any of the items he sees about it.
He also added that he was sure that the Club will move to clarify the matter in more detail hopefully in the near future.
I said that I do not detect a lot of sentiment from the Club around this or any of my other points at all. I also said that if indeed the Club has acted, then I fear that any communications on such matters have been so well disguised that they have gone unnoticed. I added that I have come across some well respected supporters on social media who insist that the timing of further activity or statements cannot be rushed, and that to a large extent patience is important. I hence asked if I could trust that his last point above is a recommendation to be patient, and an acknowledgement that this matter is not closed.
He replied by telling me that the Club first raised this matter in November 2011, that he didn’t believe the matter to be closed at this point but suspect we will all get some clarity in the near future.
He emphasised that the main point he was trying to make is that the suggestion that the Club has not acted on this matter at any stage is simply not correct.
I thanked him for his reply, indicating that I was pleased that he himself is convinced that clarity of the decisions that led to proposing Resolution 12 will become apparent in the near future.
I went on to say that for me such matters are more important than the current challenges the club faces in relation to squad content, player performance and managerial changes, saying that they go to the heart of the governance of our game and supporters need to be confident that Scottish football is governed honestly.
I concluded by saying that I remain more in hope than expectation, but thanked him for his responses.
JP’s final note was to agree that the footballing issues can and will be overcome. He said that the more serious matters of the Club pursuing what’s right have been and are being addressed and he was confident that I will be satisfied the Club acted as they should when this is finally cleared up.
I remain on hold as regards renewing but hope that circumstances change to the point that I will. I did feel better about challenging him, and was pleased to get some replies, even if there still is an element of ‘wait and see’.
jimboApril 30, 2016 at 09:14
__________________________________________
I too trudged the streets pushing leaflets through letterboxes. Like you that all stopped when Blair arrived.
I have been really busy lately but will print off and hand out at my local football ground post haste.
Can I make a simple request to the people who are asking why Celtic have not made a simple statement about what they are doing re resolution 12, specifically those who are not Celtic supporters.
Can you please provide the text of the statement released by your club, or a link to it.
Clearly if this is an issue which affects all supporters, and it is, then it is an issue for all clubs to take a stance on. Celtic have no more rights or responsibilities than any other club. Indeed as a PLC there may more constraints on what can be said in public rather than less.
Homunculus @ 1105
Don’t hold your breath.
Repeated emails and phone calls have met with deathly silence.
Jean7brodie @ 1104
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Morarbhoy @ 1108
Thank you for sharing. If others would only do the same then there would be greater clarity around all this.
IniquitousIV @ 2109 yesterday.
Thanks for the suggestion. My problem is that I am trying to keep my action non club specific and fear that taking up the offer taints my actions with “It’s just another Rangers/Celtic thing. Leave them to get on with it.”
The other side of it is finding somewhere that would accept the money a place an ad that would reach the correct demographic.
Thanks anway.
I respect the views and the integrity of those who are satisfied with privately conveyed assurances from Celtic on Res 12 matters. However I do not share their view.
As some posters have observed, if a satisfactory answer to the questions posed by the Res 12 exists, and if it is capable of surviving scrutiny of those who are in possession of facts and timelines, it makes no sense that they would want to keep that quiet.
It is no reflection on the honesty of the fans who have been invited to Celtic Park, but it does suggest to me that the need for privacy does not reflect so well on those who asked for it.
I cannot speak for the Res 12 people, but in speaking with hem, I do not detect the same confidence that things are being done as the two fans who posted here have.
My question is, “Why?” Since the club have been working hand in hand with the requisitioners for the last four years, why have they not shared the same information they passed on in private to their colleagues?
Is it because the Res 12 people are now regarded as being part of that “Integrity Soviet” we were told about?
And is there a divide and rule play going on here?
In my view the lines of conflict here are between fans and clubs – not between Rangers and everyone else. The establishment have decided that this matter has to go away, but to date, because of the tenacity of fans, they have been spectacularly unsuccessful in making that happen.
They now appear to me to be getting desperate.
Are we gonna allow the events of what has been a bad week end our campaign for the soul of the sport?
Absolutely not. If we do nothing else at SFM, we need to continue to speak the truth which the clubs and the MSM loathe.
We can routinely refer to the real facts of the events of the past five years, just as the press routinely present the lie as truth. We may not have the reach of the MSM, but in refusing to accept their lies in everyday conversation, we will make it impossible for the lie to take hold.
If I am wrong about the intentions of the clubs, if they are really waiting on the right moment, then we can add them as allies whenever they decide to jump aboard. But we don’t need to wait for them.
Afternoon all. Ages since my last post. Hope you bampots are all well.
Just mulling over the individual meetings with celtic club officials that a few have been granted.
Is it possible they have only invited prolific blog posters for a chat? Knowing there was a high probability that the minutes of said meeting would be posted online. Thus getting an official statement out to fans. Without making an official statement? .
I find it odd that no one that has posted has said they were told to keep things confidential. Only they would “prefer” it to be kept quiet!
Maybe just my inner cynic. 🙂
Big Pink,
I’m with you on this one ! In spite of all the hyperbole over a prolonged period, not one casualty has been offered up as yet. Not even appeasement has be used as a tactic, the machine rolls on unopposed and my money will remain in the bank forever more.
Big PinkApril 30, 2016 at 11:32
Well said, BP.
The following is what keeps me reading, and posting, on SFM:
“Absolutely not. If we do nothing else at SFM, we need to continue to speak the truth which the clubs and the MSM loathe.
We can routinely refer to the real facts of the events of the past five years, just as the press routinely present the lie as truth. We may not have the reach of the MSM, but in refusing to accept their lies in everyday conversation, we will make it impossible for the lie to take hold.”
Hillsborough, and it brings me no pleasure to introduce something much more serious than what we mainly discuss here by way of example, has shown us what’s possible when good men, and women, exist within the media. Journalists who are prepared to seek the truth and to take up the case of those little people (who are giants) when their case is just. For there can be little doubt that without the media support those 96 people who died would never have seen justice (though that still awaits).
But, in terms of the media, we have a much worse scenario here than mere complacency; we have a media that is actively supporting the establishment side, the side that is the equivalent of South Yorkshire Police with their lies, and lies to cover lies. To compare with the Hillsborough disgrace, the whole Scottish media is the Sun!
And the only antidote to the Sun is the truth!
I have said this many times, and I still believe it to be true.
So long as it is only Celtic, or the Celtic support who appear to be doing anything about this then it is easy for the SFA, the SPFL and the MSM to make it a west of Scotland two club issue. To write it off as a two club issue.
2012 and the rejection of the new club being placed in the SPL or SFL1 (as was) only happened because the majority of the fans, through their clubs, acted together. I see the issue with regards “Res 12” as being no different. There is no chance of success so long as the other clubs keep quiet.
gunnerbApril 29, 2016 at 20:56
AULDHEIDAPRIL 29, 2016 at 19:28 15 1 Rate This FolksThere is nothing sinister going on re Res12 silence. ______________________________________________________ Auldheid, are you saying that you and other resolutioners are content with with the way things are progressing? Given the season ticket dilemma it would be comforting to have a lead from someone in the `know’.
MorarbhoyApril 30, 2016 at 10:58
“He replied by telling me that the Club first raised this matter in November 2011, that he didn’t believe the matter to be closed at this point but suspect we will all get some clarity in the near future.”
———————————————–
There has been a good bit activity this week at CP including on Res12 and as I understand it some official light will emerge from the slow glass during next week. I’m just not sure exactly how thick the glass is (see below). What emerges should offer comfort.
Sorry for being cryptic lads and ladies but there have been a few false dawns since end March and I don’t like leaving hostages to fortune, but I think here we don’t need the SAS.
A Post on Slow Glass from last April.
Auldheid says:
April 4, 2015 at 3:15 pm (Edit)
The thing about Jim Spence I feel is that if he were not in the mainstream media he would be on here posting or blogging.
He cares about his club but is balanced, he cares about the game and loves both.
He was talking on Sportsound there about Dundee United being caught on the back foot on the matter of the make up of the managers contract in respect of player sales.
The conversation turned to transparency and for football to catch up in realising it has to become more transparent in its dealing with supporters.
What football has not realised is that transparency is already here but in a form that makes us slow to realise it.
The medium is social media and the ability to share but contained by Slow Glass.
Slow Glass from a short story by Bob Shaw slows down the light passing through it.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_of_Other_Days
In the story and others you have Slow Glass of different thickness in terms of the time it takes for the light to emerge.
You have Glass a day thick/long to Glass ten years and more thick/long.
Thus the Utd story was captured by Slow Glass about 3 or 4 weeks thick. Maybe more or less as I don’t know the detail but you get the drift.
The Rangers story will emerge in full over 10 years thick glass.
The LNS story will take at least another year before the truth will emerge that shows it to have been a sham.
Res12 if measured from the Celtic AGM in 2013 will take two years for the truth to emerge. (Edit:Call it three)
The thickness/slowness of the glass depends to a large extent on main stream journalist removing the dust of PR that slows the light, but light is inexorable.
It can do nothing but shine.
The sooner authority and not just football realise that transparency is already here emerging via Slow Glass the thinner the Glass will become.
No more waiting years for the truth to emerge, which might just make folk act truthfully and honestly in the first place. It will be an interesting future as social media replaces mainstream as music downloads replaced CDs ( that replaced tapes that replaced records that replaced cylinders)
In the meantime let’s keep our football Glass polished and hasten the emergence of light in our own landscape.
Beach end redApril 30, 2016 at 11:45
‘..Just mulling over the individual meetings with celtic club officials that a few have been granted.Is it possible they have only invited prolific blog posters for a chat? ‘
______
Mmmmmmm…..I’ve posted a wheen o’times, Beach end red, but haven’t received any invite from Celtic Park!
Celtic were and are in an utterly invidious position, like Gary Cooper as Marshal Kane in ‘High Noon’ : a whole heap of expectation that they alone should be ready to die for the Truth on behalf of 40 other clubs who are skulking safely indoors or otherwise dodging the column or ,perhaps in some cases, actually on the side of the baddies.
Marshal Kane was helped in the end (and however reluctantly) by the one who loved him most and was prepared to die with him.
It’s a tough choice: ‘die’ for truth to the delight of bad guys on behalf of people who don’t give a tuppenny toss about Sporting Truth ( and many of whom actively but secretly hope that you will die) or capitulate and sign up with the baddies.
I’ll wait to see what kind of ‘official statement’ Celtic come out with.
JOHN CLARKAPRIL 30, 2016 at 14:07
Celtic are indeed in an invidious position JC.
As a PLC everything that is done, every statement that is made has to be taken in the context of how it might effect share prices. That means everything they say and do must be considered in the context of, amongst other things turnover.
So it’s all well and good people talking about making a statement, or calling an EGM to tell the shareholders what is happening, however it really isn’t as simple as Celtic just telling the World what the club is doing, in relation to a resolution made by it’s own shareholders.
There is also the concept of commercial confidentiality. Why would the PLC tell the World everything it is doing, particularly where it may have a direct result on it’s own performance.
I know people don’t like talk like this, that doesn’t make it any less true. The Celtic board run a PLC, they are responsible to the shareholders of that PLC. They must make their decisions based on what they consider is best for the shareholders they represent.
congratulations to celtic football club today, who always had that extra gear with the budget being well ahead of the rest, am not being bitter here that’s just capitalist football,i only wish it were more of a level playing field where our competition would provide an edge that would benefit the game as a whole going forward into the european challenge ,but more importantly no EBTs required, integrity intact.
as for next season,don’t tell me am watching a sport,it will be anything but.
Why would any other club release a statement about a resolution proposed at a Celtic AGM, if Celtic haven’t even done so? At that level, it has nothing to do with any other club. They may have views regarding the situation that led to it, but most of them do not have fans who have any rights or say in what happens at club level. Once Celtic make some public response, others may voice their opinions but until then, it really is up to Celtic to respond to its own shareholders
HomunculusApril 30, 2016 at 14:34
‘..The Celtic board run a PLC, they are responsible to the shareholders of that PLC. They must make their decisions based on what they consider is best for the shareholders they represent.’
____________
That is true, of course, Homunculus.
The trouble is that the Football Authorities , although the two groupings of businesses are not constituted as PLCs, could claim that they are under similar constraints in doing their commercial best for the businesses they represent.
Our complaint against them is (basically) that they attempted to protect the commercial interests of their members by lying and cheating , having previously lied and cheated to help one member try to avoid the consequences of its financial cheating, and that they continue to lie.
It might be argued, and is, of course, argued that ‘business’ at the end of the day has to lie in one way or another, and we should all just be grown-up enough to accept that as a fact of life.
None of us would accept that argument in principle, and certainly would not give it practical backing by spending money to support it.
And the counter-argument is that even in the business world, people are ready to check ‘unfair’ competition, and prevent price-fixing cartels, and there are ‘disciplinary’ bodies to take action to ensure that the agreed ‘rules of commerce and trade’ are enforced.
Additionally, ‘Competitive Sport’ is not just another business, that grows or diminishes on the basis of how well it screws its competition in the market-place. It totally depends on genuine sporting competition: each football ‘business’ needs there to be other ‘football businesses’in the market-place, in genuine ‘fair under the sporting rules’ competition. otherwise there is no market.
Consequently, ‘football authorities’ who not only allow cheating but cover it up and allow it to continue are not to be tolerated on the grounds that they are simply doing their best in the commercial interests of their members!
If 40 of the members are happy to endorse the cheating of their ‘authorities’, because they are happy to abandon the very idea of ‘fair sporting competition ‘ , that is simply morally repugnant. It is also simply suicidally self-destructive.
Unfortunately, none of us has a legal right to demand sight of the business documents of private companies, or call them to account for their ‘business’ decisions and policies.
However, if one member is a plc, it has to find a way of protecting its shareholders’ interests. And, as a member of the group of businesses which constitute the ( private limited) company that is the SFA, it does have the legal right to ask questions on matters which it believes touch on the commercial interests of its shareholders.
It has therefore to consider very carefully indeed whether being at all equivocal about checking out allegations of deceitful dealing by the ‘company’ which cost their own , and other, companies some substantial financial and sporting loss , is at all in the best commercial interests of their shareholders.
Or whether , by tacitly endorsing ‘cheating’, they might actually trigger the slow death of their own company, and kill ‘Scottish Football’, as a genuine, honestly and fairly-under-the-rules-administered Sport, as surely dead as SDM’s cheating killed the Rangers of old.
It surely cannot be outwith the powers and diplomatic skill of the Celtic Board to find a way to honestly square the circle , if that’s not a concept that’s out of place in relation to Celtic.
ScottC
I agree. Many people rush to infer some kind of unfair expectation of Celtic whenever Res12, and Celtic’s Slow Glass © Auldheid response to it.
However, activist shareholders at Celtic had an opportunity (perhaps not available to shareholders at all clubs?) to address the matter – and they did. My view is that Celtic have failed spectacularly in that process, and that they have effectively tried to derail it whist pretending to go along with it.
I have no way of proving that of course, just as I have no way of proving that Australia exists (I have never seen it for myself).
It is however a fairly binary assessment – if you consider that what we have all believed from the outset that Rangers cheated on an industrial scale and the authorities helped cover it up – to decide whether or not each and every one of us is happy to continue patronage of our own clubs in the certain knowledge that those clubs knew what we knew.
As a Celtic fan, I am more than certain that Celtic knew about it – and that for five years they have hidden behind schoolboy comments at various press conferences, whilst doing nothing, nothing at all, of substance.
My club, and your clubs, may not have a duty to lead the rest against corruption in the game in general, but they most certainly do have a duty to provide moral leadership in their sphere of influence, amongst their fan base. The tragic irony is that despite having a tail of folk of sound character trying to wag their corporate dog, they have failed to respond.
Even if they now did after five craven years of inaction, they are too late. I can’t continue to support people who regard the fans as subversive and dissident. Celtic, or more accurately the controlling interests at Celtic, clearly now see themselves as defined by Rangers’ status. For decades, I have always thought the opposite was certainly the case, but I find it alarming that the people who manage the club it see that Old Firm symbiosis as so vital that they would betray the sport itself.
From my perspective then, that binary decision results in a very resounding “no!”
SCOTTCAPRIL 30, 2016 at 15:08
Apologies if I worded my request badly, and if it was not clear to anyone.
I was referring to the situation which gave rise to the resolution, as opposed to the specific resolution itself.
I don’t know which team you support, however if it isn’t Celtic could you maybe let me know what your club has had to say on the matter. As I said earlier, the text itself or even a link to it would be fantastic.
Again, apologies if my post wasn’t clear.
HOMUNCULUS
APRIL 30, 2016 at 16:16
‘My’ club are Forfar Athletic, soon to be starting the journey from the bottom of the senior leagues once more. They have not, as far as I am aware, had anything to say on the matter, but then you could argue that it didn’t really affect them in any meaningful way, apart from operating in the lower echelons of a corrupt league. However as with most football companies in Scotland there are a very limited number of shareholders so fans don’t really have the mechanism to ‘encourage’ the board to do anything particular.
SCOTTCAPRIL 30, 2016 at 17:03
Thanks for the reply.
In essence they have made no comment on the matter. Are you aware of the supporters perhaps deciding not to buy season tickets, or not supporting the team in some way, in order to encourage some form of statement from the club.
AULDHEIDAPRIL 30, 2016 at 12:34
_____________________
Thanks for the reply Auldheid. I realised after posting that it was a question that unfairly put you in the position of aye/no regarding season tickets, so apologies for that. Regarding the slow glass answer you gave I am afraid that I am in Big Pinks’ camp…(yes I know camp and pink…leave it) in so much as the inordinate length of time it has/is taking for the board to actually publicly acknowledge that there IS an issue and also that as a company they are actively pursuing this.Homunculus is keen on highlighting the other clubs silence on this matter and with some reason but I am primarily concerned with season ticket purchases for the club I want to support.
gunnerbApril 30, 2016 at 17:33 1 0 i Rate This
AULDHEIDAPRIL 30, 2016 at 12:34 _____________________ Thanks for the reply Auldheid. I realised after posting that it was a question that unfairly put you in the position of aye/no regarding season tickets, so apologies for that. Regarding the slow glass answer you gave I am afraid that I am in Big Pinks’ camp…(yes I know camp and pink…leave it) in so much as the inordinate length of time it has/is taking for the board to actually publicly acknowledge that there IS an issue and also that as a company they are actively pursuing this.Homunculus is keen on highlighting the other clubs silence on this matter and with some reason but I am primarily concerned with season ticket purchases for the club I want to support.
—————————–
You eat an elephant a bit at a time. First Res12 going to UEFA after that lessons learned and believe me I could write a book.
I very rarely post unless I have a contribution worthwhile to make, but have read almost every post since RTC days.
I greatly appreciate the tremendous amount of work and input by the contributors and like to think that I am fairly knowledgeable on all the comings and goings regularly debated on here.
As a now long suffering Season ticket holder at Celtic Park I have decided enough is enough.
Until such time as those in charge grow a pair and face off those in authority who have done tremendous damage to our game they will receive not a penny more from me.
On Friday I cancelled my 3 weekly tickets to Celtic Pools, collected monthly by direct debit.
My seat at Celtic Park has remained unoccupied for a good part of the season, and will remain empty for the remaining fixtures.
No doubt I will still be counted as attending.
Enough is enough.
First Res12 going to UEFA after that lessons learned and believe me I could write a book.
______________________________
“First Res12 going to UEFA”…from Celtic Plc or individual shareholders?
There are a few, but I really don’t see it making much difference. Not that FAFC don’t care; I’m absolutely sure that they do but the smaller teams like Forfar and Arbroath are much more about the community in which they operate than the larger teams seem to be.
Gunnerb
There will be no room to complain. We haven’t got dressed up for nothing.
HOMUNCULUSAPRIL 30, 2016 at 11:05
Totally get where you are coming from but let’s not forget it was a small club led by Turnbull Hutton that led the way and told us how it was four years ago.
What that man said was 1000 times more powerful than anything emanating from any club since then.
A small club from Fife took a stand. That was the time for a big gun to stand up and be counted and offer support.
For whatever reason Celtic shat it and stayed silernt.
Had they moved at that time the rest of Scottish Football would have followed. Of that I have no doubt.
End of story.
wottpiApril 30, 2016 at 21:21
“…Had they moved at that time the rest of Scottish Football would have followed..
__________
I rather think, wottpi, that they should have moved immediately it became clear to clubs that Liquidation was on the cards. At that point they should have insisted that the normal consequences of Liquidation be allowed to take effect: death as a football club.
And they should have further insisted that the nonsensical, hysterical threats of ‘Armageddon’ and ‘civic unrest’ and the threat of creation of an SPL 2 which would exclude any club that didn’t toe the party line would be met by a counter threat that Celtic would remove themselves from Scottish Football, whatever the consequences, rather than cheat to accommodate a new club by accepting as true a blatant, manipulative lie.
In those early days, the whole of the Scottish Football world AND world football knew, and publicly proclaimed the death of RFC as a footballing entity.
That was the time when the football rules, the SFA’s rules and the SPL rules should have been openly and honestly applied, and it should have been made abundantly plain that in any negotiations with the new club, the ‘authorities ‘ were dealing NOT with RFC (IL) but with a wholly new entity applying for the first time for a place in Scottish Football.
Instead we got the deceitful 5-way agreement , to appease a charlatan, and a subsequent series of chancers out to make a buck on the basis of a lie.
Just as Neville Chamberlain’s readiness to appease a madman created a monstrous problem for the civilised world, so the authors and enactors of the 5-way agreement created a situation that is an affront to any kind of truth, and is destructive of the concept of Sporting integrity.
Turnbull Hutton’s words still sound in my head ” we have been bullied, railroaded and lied to.”
(And that’s without mentioning the Res 12 issue)
Just to follow up on yesterday’s posts re ‘fit and proper’. What went before and other curious reported comments from Regan (Breakfast club!!!) are all detailed in posts from the much missed Paul McConville.
Interesting stuff given the past few days in the court of session.
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/the-sfas-fit-and-proper-test-self-certification-for-football-clubs-a-farce-part-1-craig-whyte/
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/the-sfas-fit-and-proper-test-a-farce-part-2-dave-king-and-paul-murray-bad-news-for-the-blue-knights/
SCOTTC “fans don’t really have the mechanism to ‘encourage’ the board to do anything particular”
The “mechanism” is the same as it was in 2012 – our money.
Without it the geme’s a bogey.
There is the issue in a nutshell
“For whatever reason Celtic shat it and stayed silernt.”
It appears the majority of respondents to this blog see what happened to the old Rangers as being a Celtic issue. Not an issue for Scottish football, a Celtic issue.
The SFA, SPFL and MSM love it. Just as much as they hated it in 2012 when the majority of Scottish football made it about the whole of the game, not just two clubs.
I certainly don’t see the issues around the financial collapse of RFC in “Celtic/Rangers” terms. These are issues for the whole of Scottish football, since every club is a voting member of the SFA and SPFL.
But it is surely wrong to equate the capacity for action of Celtic with Forfar, Stranraer, Arbroath, etc. Celtic have their people on the various Boards, they have a support that dwarfs most other clubs, and they have the financial muscle that comes with that.
When the big bully started throwing his weight around in the playground, you expected, or at least hoped, that one of the bigger lads would take him on. Not some weedy wee lad who would simply be battered into the ground. I seem to recall that following Turnbull Hutton’s trenchant comments, threats were made to burn down Stark’s Park- or did I imagine that?
John Clark is spot on with his comment above. Celtic had the power to ensure a different outcome in the summer of 2012. Forfar, or any of the smaller clubs for that matter, simply didn’t have that power.
I have no idea why Celtic allowed the situation to develop as it did, but this much is certain, they did allow it. For without at the very least their acquiescence, there would have been no 5 way agreement. It seems likely that larger clubs like Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs would have been “in the loop”, but that’s just guesswork on my part. However the acquiescence of the likes of Forfar would simply not have been required- in my opinion.
HOMUNCULUSMAY 1, 2016 at 09:10
I am afraid you are way off course.
I believe most folk on here see it as an issue for Scottish Football. However fans of other clubs have, over many years, just gotten use to the dominance of the two cheeks.
Whether right or wrong the power in the game generally lay with those two.
The fans of all Scottish Clubs bolstered by Turnbull Hutton have already proven that the issues involved effected us all and they spoke loud and clear at that time. That is the proof it is much wider than a Rangers – Celtic thing.
On a weekly basis people on here are a pains to point out fans of all clubs are unhappy.
However since 2012 the continuity myth has since come to the fore along with more detail on the Res12 issue. The newco is now being led by a convicted tax dodger despite Regan apparently saying four years ago he would not be able to take up a position (see my earlier post)
The rest of Scottish Football is now just looking for a lead from the club who continually tell us they are the ones founded on charity, fighting for the little guy against corruption, the misue of power and challenging unjust and unfair situations.
That is my view, in a nutshell.
Homunculus,
First of all your inference is erroneous. Criticism of Celtic’s inaction does not infer a consensus that this is an exclusively Celtic issue.
In the context of your last remark, it is worthwhile remembering that around 45% of contributors to this site are Celtic fans, most of whom are critical of the club on this issue – and they are the largest cohort on SFM.
And of course Res 12 IS a Celtic issue, raised by Celtic fans at a Celtic AGM. It has wider relevance to fans of all other clubs, but I hope you are not suggesting that the issue should never have been raised by those Celtic shareholders for fear of allowing the press to portray it as a Celtic/Rangers thing.
I do agree that Celtic are taking the hit on this blog for their inaction, of which other clubs are equally guilty. However, there have been Aberdeen and hearts fans on here regularly who despair of their clubs’ stance – and none of them are in fear of being a “Hearts” or “Aberdeen” thing.
There is also a defeatist tone your argument, one which has been in evidence over the last few years. “We can’t act because of [inser spurious resons here]”
Any justification for inaction, however sincerely delivered, is a signal that the cheats have won. If not what is the solution?
BIG PINKMAY 1, 2016 at 10:57
Homunculus,
First of all your inference is erroneous.
=====================================
That is your opinion, and I fully respect your right to hold it and to express it.
I have mine and it is different from yours.
You using word like erroneous and spurious to demean my position will not change it.
I believe, as I have stated before, that so long as other clubs say and do nothing then the whole issue can dismissed by the authorities and the media. Indeed they can describe the argument as both erroneous and spurious. That doesn’t make it so.
“If not what is the solution?”
For all clubs and all supporters who agree that action is required to say so. That’s what happened in 2012, that is why it worked.
JOENINHOAPRIL 30, 2016 at 23:43
That is exactly the point. Fans of every club can approach whoever runs the club, whether it be an owner, a committee or a board and tell them that they will not support the club financially so long as it stays silent on this issue.
If they don’t wish to do that, and if they don’t feel it is an issue for their club fine. That is a matter entirely for them. I feel no malice towards Kilmarnock for example, who chose to abstain in the vote to allow Rangers into the SPL.
I feel no malice towards the SFL clubs who voted to allow Rangers into their league. It was entirely their choice to make. Had they not done so then we probably wouldn’t be having these discussions just now, it is difficult to see how the new club would have survived starting as a junior team. I’m not sure how the individual clubs voted, but it was clubs like Forfar, Brechin, Alloa etc who allowed Rangers into Senior football in Scotland. It wasn’t Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Celtic etc who did that.
I assume they did it because they realised they would make a lot of money out of it. That’s fine it was their league and their choice.
“SFL chief David Longmuir revealed that 29 of the 30 clubs in the lower leagues voted in favour of admitting the newco club into the SFL as a whole, while 25 voted for them to go into Division Three.”
I’m going to get my broken record out.
Everyone on here agrees that this is a problem for all clubs in Scotland so we are wasting breath discussing it. It is not on here though that agreement to act is needed, it is amongst those out on the terraces. Do they believe it is a Rangers/Celtic thing or the responsibility of all clubs? The answer is, neither. The vast majority do not know that their is an issue. The percentage at each club that have any info on the issue is the same. Damn few, give or take a couple. Would the many who do not know care if they heard the case? Who knows, but we will only find out if we can inform them. I say “we” because nobody else will. The court cases and appeals are the perfect example. There is never any coverage in the press of upcoming court appearances and there is only reports after if the result is in TRFC’s favour. The ordinary fan does not search twitter for court reports, neither do they spend much time on serious football blogs. You may get reasonable access to them with a Facebook campaign but someone needs to step up and organise that. It is an area where I have no expertise so the question is, do we have anyone here that is prepared to take it on?
We can while our time away day after day discussing whether it should be one club or all clubs that take responsibility but if we stick to that then we are no more than one of these boring philosophical moral discussions that French TV is so fond of late Saturday night. So the question remains- Do we want to right the wrongs or are we happy for them to be there so that we can bitch about it? If it is the former then the starting place, with the exception of Res 12, has to be getting enough people to know that there IS a problem so that any action by the fans would more than feeble because that is what it would be if a boycott, or the likes, were called today.
I will append this post as usual with the link to the downloads not because it is the best way, and it may even be the worst way, but because it is the only way until someone else steps forward. Facebook anyone?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_X7aVh2s6qcQTA5X0t5b1lwQ0U
Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen,
Would some kind person please supply a link to the images of Scottish media’s proclamation that Rangers were dead I saw it on here several weeks ago.
Reiver I am printing your stuff off and taking it to the pub.
Big Pink
Homunculus.
Just because something has not happened don’t mean it ain’t gonna. Slow glass gentlemen, slow glass.
The latest JJ blog mentions the role of RFC Chairman Alistair Johnson played in the granting of the UEFA licence in 2011.
https://johnjamessite.com/2016/04/30/a-pyrrhic-victory/
Harry Brady of Celtic Underground has previously pointed out that there looks to have been some significance in the timing of the release of those accounts as I recall.
Anyhoo there is a bit more to it than that on which JJ is unsighted and given it points to what I think we all want (but are debating strategy on) i.e the absolute need to unveil the unhealthy relationship the SFA have with the company now operating a club at Ibrox, here is the other bit.
It may not get supporters of other clubs riled up enough to gather behind a demand for SFA reform but it does form another plank of a platform on which that demand can be built.
————————-
In a statement accompanying the half yearly report on 1st April 2011
http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.aspx?id=20110401070000P7489
The then Rangers Chairman Alastair Johnston said in respect of the tax owed from irregular DOS ebts
“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a POTENTIAL tax liability inrelation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributionsbetween 1999 and 2003. Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish aresolution to the assessments raised.”
Apart from the role delay played (which JJ mentions in his blog) which allowed the SFA to justify the granting of a UEFA licence at 31st March, using the strict but correct interpretation of UEFA rules (in spite of unpaid tax dating back to 2001/02/03 ), it also began the myth that there was any dubiety about the status of the liability, (as there was with the BTC “liability”) and that discussions were ongoing as regards the status of that distinct liability.
It was as untrue at 1st April 2011 as it was at 30 June 2011 when UEFA were told something that allowed the RFC submission of 30th June 2011 to be accepted by UEFA, albeit verbally.
The fact is the DOS tax liability was no longer potential at 1st April. I think we know why the liability was not appealed, RFC/MIH telling HMRC porkies in 2005 about the existence of the De Boer and Flo side letters.
The liability stopped being potential on 21 March 2011, arguably earlier, when Mike McGill, Sir David Murray’s right hand man placed on the RFC Board according to Alastair Johnston,
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/rangers-in-crisis-the-downfall-of-sir-david-857715#efLqU5IdSZQzcQiv.97
put RFCs calculation of what was owed to HMRC to HMRC who in turn accepted it in principle with no added penalties. This suggests RFC in fact accepted the liability on or after 3 March 2011 on their QC advice to settle.
Thus the public fog surrounding the DOS EBT that became the wee tax case was laid from the 1st of April 2011.
One can only speculate why, but we do know CL money was vital for RFC to survive and, as history has shown us since, the SFA were desperate to ensure that they did.
That could have been done honestly after liquidation and is an opportunity lost, but you can hardly expect the same folks caught in the deception to cough for it. Or as Einstein put it
” No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.”
Or put another way.
Liars never change their spots.
There is a post in moderation, probably because of multiple links, that explains the Einstein image. Wait for it.
Thanks Gwared.
AULDHEID
MAY 1, 2016 at 11:50 (EDIT)
Auldheid,
I sense a shift in your position since we last spoke, implying some movement. As you know, my scepticism is inversely proportional to yours, and movement has been indicated in the past. Consequently, I remain doubtful.
However, I will be happy to have egg on my face if it happens
Below is a further email I have just sent to Ann Budge’s PA.
Dear Ann
Exactly one month ago I sent you a lengthy and impassioned email imploring you to take action over the misgovernance of our game by our football authorities. I appreciate that you are a busy woman, but I had hoped nonetheless that you would give me the courtesy of a reply, however brief, or even dismissive.
One of the subjects I touched on in my previous email concerned the substantial number of supporters, from 41 of our 42 senior Scottish clubs, who are so disillusioned by the way the cheating and ultimate death of Rangers Football Club has been mishandled by the SFA and SPFL, that they intend to permanently withdraw all financial support from their clubs in protest.
I don’t have a season ticket for Tynecastle, due mainly to the distance involved. Work commitments also severely curtail the number of times I get to watch Hearts ‘in the flesh’. However, at the start of the current season, I spent around £500 on official merchandise from the online club shop. In addition, for some time now I have considered making a monthly contribution to the Foundation of Hearts, having previously donated a lump sum, but I have stalled on making a commitment because of this ongoing scandal.
I appreciate that the current board can’t be held accountable for the actions of the previous regime, but I also believe that the current board’s silence on the subject makes it complicit in cultivating and maintaining the fundamental lie that I expanded upon in my previous email. Regrettably, and with some reluctance, I will not now be spending any further money on Hearts in the foreseeable future because I believe the club is playing its part in changing Scottish football from an ethical sport into a rigged game more akin to WWF wrestling.
Big PinkMay 1, 2016 at 12:17 0 0 i Rate This
AULDHEIDMAY 1, 2016 at 11:50 (EDIT)
In a perverse sort of way, because I am a bit perverse, you drove me on.
Not to see egg on your handsome (ok I’m maybe stretching it there) visage of course, but jus cos I’m like that.
reiver, I’ve asked someone if they will print off the flyers for me and they have agreed. I will try and get to Poundland in the next few days to buy the card.
HomunculusMay 1, 2016 at 11:21
‘..I feel no malice towards the SFL clubs who voted to allow Rangers into their league. ‘
_______
Not to butt in gratuitously, but I need to make something plain and I’ll use your loose use of the term ‘Rangers’ as a justification for this post.
I don’t care a fig about the new club as such. Whether it lives or dies doesn’t, ultimately, matter a damn to me.
What matters is NOT the admission of the new club as a new club. ( although if there was a queue of other applicant clubs, there might be questions to be asked by those applicants, but the creation and acceptance of the myth that the new club is the same as the old rotten-to-the-very-core Glasgow Rangers 18-oatcake, which had a decade and more of sports cheating on an industrial scale.
The 5-way agreement is as vile an agreement that supposedly honest men could have put their names to.
It is monstrously offensive as an insult to the intelligence, flying as it does in the face of all commercial, legal and sporting law and precedent.
It is additionally offensive because it allowed asset-strippers and their successors (assuming that they are the legitimate owners of the assets) to try to make money on the quite false marketing pretence that their football club has a long, historic pedigree and string of sporting successes going back a century or more.
It made a mockery of all that ordinary folk think that competitive sport and its system of sporting honours and achievement should be based upon.
And showed that there was, is, something very,very rotten in Scottish Football government: as rotten as anything in UEFA or FIFA, even if not on the same international scale.
The ‘Football Authorities’, the SMSM, the RIFC and TRFC boards have been trying for 4 years to deny reality, and persuade us to swallow the lie. They are wholly behind the cant phrase used by canting BBC-radio football presenters: ‘ Let’s move on..’
And the general uncritical use of the word ‘Rangers’, without further specification, brings them satisfaction and hope that their sustained barrage of propaganda is having the desired effect, of getting us to dishonour ourselves by subscribing to the BIG LIE.
It is this consciousness of the enormity of what happened, and that it could have happened with the full knowledge of clubs, including at least to some extent , Celtic, that generates fury.
The 5-way agreement OUGHT NOT to have happened.
It appears that Celtic were signatory to the 5-Way agreement. They have every reason not to want to re-visit that agreement in the interest of ‘Integrity’ ( who was it that coined the phrase ‘the integrity soviet’?), so it would be pointless trying to get them to do so.
This is where the Res 12 issue comes in. The Celtic Board have a statutory duty to heed the Resolution passed at an AGM. They MUST take some action.
They must speak soon either to explain that their fiduciary duties do NOT in fact require them to take action ( good luck with that) OR take the matter to UEFA and pray that the SFA comes out with clean hands.
If the SFA is, instead, found to have dirty hands, then everything they have ever done in relation to the Liquidation is immediately to be set at nought, and Scottish Football is in an even shitti.r place.
But it has to be done.
Blind love is no love at all.
Thanks Jimbo. Your a star.
Now. Back to my club induced depression.
Ach shoot at least another year in the championship then.
To Auldheid:
Auldheid, please be advised that someone has posted a despicably nasty article about you on the Bears Den Forum ( with photographs ).
Please take care. Maybe some of your legal friends could advise as to whether this personal attack is actionable? It is clearly intended to intimidate.
A concerned IniquitousIV
I have a memory of what was held to be a copy of the infamous 5WA being posted on here. If so how can I find it?
Reiver – will attempt to circulate yr leaflet/flyers at Tayside Derby in/around ground + pubs . Difficult to get any sense out of people (from the DUFC divide) as they have other matters occupying their thoughts at moment but will try .
REIVERMAY 1, 2016 at 14:33
Now. Back to my club induced depression.
===============================
Chin up. Just think how good the season could still turn out for Hibs. I’d say promotion via the play-off’s and a Scottish Cup win would be incredible. I really see no reason why Hibs can’t win the cup.
Anyone know if BDO have actually lodged an appeal to the Supreme Court?
UTH, Was thinking that myself, The season is certainly not over for Hibs.
BTW I am neutral.
UPTHEHOOPSMAY 1, 2016 at 17:39
Anyone know if BDO have actually lodged an appeal to the Supreme Court?
———————————-
I don’t know if this has any bearing on when we will know if BDO have lodged an appeal or are going to, but The Joint Liquidators’ statutory reports should be published within six weeks of each six-month anniversary of the date of Liquidation.The last date anything was published was 2 September 2015.So they are late.
maybe if they publish something they will let us know if they have lodged an appeal.But better people in the know will know better than me
Naegreetin,
Brilliant, perhaps the Arab fans will see it as a way of getting league reconstruction. I don’t care why people get involved just as long as they do.
UTH
It takes more than a nice pep talk to cheer up a Hibs supporter of over fifty years standing. I experienced all the slap downs. Probably the worst was getting hit for six by your team in a cup final in the seventies. The score was bad enough but those of us who left when the sixth went were made to queue outside the station. Within minutes the skies opened up and a deluge enveloped us. JUST us! Two hundred yards away the sun was shining.
Even the good times were difficult. When we later beat you in the LC final the trip home was not plain sailing (I know, it wouldn’t be cos we were on a train) with the Celtic fans using the communication cord to get off the train closer to their homes than the station was. We were eventually put in a siding near Falkirk to allow the scheduled trains to run. When we got into Waverley my old man and me sprinted up the Waverley steps and arrived just in time to see Eddie Turnbull’s arse disappearing from the balcony of the North British hotel back inside. The only enjoyment we had on the trip was when one of the “alighting” passengers forgot the old saying “look before you leap”. The door he chose to escape through was in the middle of a bridge over a road. One jump and a descent of about twenty feet certainly delayed his shortcut home. The last we saw of him he was speeding(????) like the Hunchback of Notre Dame who had mistaken a bottle of syrup of figs for Guinness.
Nowadays though the skies could open and I would remain perfectly dry. This duck’s back is well siliconed by the years of suffering.
INIQUITOUSIV
MAY 1, 2016 at 15:41
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To Auldheid:
Auldheid, please be advised that someone has posted a despicably nasty article about you on the Bears Den Forum ( with photographs ).
Please take care. Maybe some of your legal friends could advise as to whether this personal attack is actionable? It is clearly intended to intimidate.
A concerned IniquitousIV
========
Thank you. I’ve read it and ordered another glass of sangria with my taps.
The appropriate authorities have been notified.
This is what we as a society are up against. How wrong that blog is will be covered shortly.
How misguided the blogger is is already apparent.
Reiver, must be the funniest post I have read on here. ” 200 yards away the sun was shining”
.
It actually puts into context some of your posts of a couple of days ago when I thought you were being crabbit. I never saw the humour behind it.
REIVERMAY 1, 2016 at 18:42
It takes more than a nice pep talk to cheer up a Hibs supporter of over fifty years standing. I experienced all the slap downs. Probably the worst was getting hit for six by your team in a cup final in the seventies.
=============================
That was actually an excellent Hibs team. It’s just that Celtic side of the time were exceptional. Only a penalty shoot out denied us another European Cup final appearance in the season you mention. I was delighted as a teenager to see Pat Stanton win a league medal with Celtic in 1977. A player of his class deserved that honour. I went to his testimonial at Easter Road, and there was about 40,000 there. I was on that massive terracing opposite the main stand. Happy days!
I remember going to a Hibs V Celtic about 20 years ago. Hospitality job. Because I was in the table of major sponsors of Hibs at the time we were to decide MOTM. I suggested a Celtic player. One of our company was a ‘famous five’ (can’t remember which one) who advised me that the convention is for a home player. I felt a bit silly.
Jimbo
Whadda ya mean “funniest”? That was true and I didn’t hear one person laughing.
And yes I was crabbit, the frustration got to me.
I had to decide a couple of years ago whether I was going to be a dirty old man or a grumpy old man. I chose the latter because I am better at it and my wife told me that, being a man, there was no way I could multitask.
AULDHEID
MAY 1, 2016 at 11:50
In a statement accompanying the half yearly report on 1st April 2011 http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.aspx?id=20110401070000P7489 Extract
Johnston said Murray first mentioned Whyte’s name to him in November 2010.
He recalled: “David Murray rang me on my mobile and said, ‘I think we’ve got someone and this is a really good one. Unlike any others before, he’s spent a lot up front.
“‘He’s hired some high-powered lawyers and spent some money on them, and he’s hired a high-powered PR team. He’s spent a lot of money on it so he must be serious.’”
But the sale turned out to be, as Murray now calls it, a “huge mistake”.
Johnston said: “One of the big giveaways about Craig Whyte was the fact he wasn’t worried about working capital. He didn’t care about it
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Interesting
MCR were recruited by SDM in 2010 to help sell RFC. So they would be invoicing MIH for this work. At a minimum these fees would be in the region of £25k -£30k per month for one Consultant part time
However
RFC were a basket case owing £18m to Lloyds Bank and £4.5m to HMRC for the Wee Tax Case, HMRC were also pursuing RFC for a further £36m plus penalties in the Big Tax Case
Nobody in their right mind would spend £25k -£30k /month on due diligence to acquire a debt ridden business
Yet
By Oct 2010 MCR were said to be helping the prospective purchaser of RFC undertake due diligence work at RFC
This begs the obvious question
Who was actually invoiced for the work carried out by MCR to help the prospective purchaser of RFC between Oct 2010 and May 2011?
Was it MIH?
Was it the Purchaser?
Or
Was the Purchasers share of the MCR bill sent to RFC a few weeks after the deal was done in May 2011?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
By end May 2011 all Directors except DCK had left the RFC Board
And
The Auditors responsible for passing the RFC 2010-2011 accounts to end June 2011 are unlikely to have accepted that this was a reasonable charge
Is this one of the reasons the 2010-2011 Accounts were never passed by the Auditors and never submitted to Companies House ?
REIVER don’t forget we beat them 5-3 after extra time in the drybrough cup in 72. A diddy cup I know but i Will take them all.
Just as a small aside have we all seen this http://celtsarehere.com/watch-gers-fan-meltdown-on-last-four-years/? where was this guys carer lol.
Ah, the Dryburgh Cup. If only we had got the Intertoto and the Ramsdens. What a treble.
Still on Celtic/Hibs in the 70’s. How many players will score a hat trick in a cup final and still end up on the losing side. Poor Joe Harper!
Following the character assassination of Keef by johnjames, I’d love to hear his views on the author of this piece -http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-traynor-why-this-is-my-last-ever-newspaper-1470050#6Wot6mHb75vLIO9I.97
Ah, the beauty of hindsight !
AuldheidMay 1, 2016 at 18:49
‘….Thank you. I’ve read it and ordered another glass of sangria with my taps…’
_______
Hmmm! I admire your sang-froid and airy dismissal of the threat of personal danger., Auldheid. But you do know the probable derivation of the word ‘sangria’ ,eh?
“Probably from Spanish sangría, act of bleeding, sangria, from sangre, blood, from Latin sanguis, sanguinis-.”
I think I’d play safe and have a wee Grouse and a bottle of beer ! In fact, I’ll have one now.Cheers!or Salud
Let’s hope the low-life gets arrested and charged.
bordersdonMay 1, 2016 at 15:43
“I have a memory of what was held to be a copy of the infamous 5WA being posted on here. If so how can I find it?”
————————————
This particular version was originally posted by Hirsute Pursuit.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/164650989/5-Way-Agreement-as-Issued-to-All-Parties-for-Signature
I’ve inadvertently attached my ‘website links’ document which I can’t see how to delete and which may nevertheless provide you with further reading should you be so inclined.