Make our Mind Up Time

ByTrisidium

Make our Mind Up Time

I have been receiving quite a bit of  unflattering mail about the “agenda” being pursued on this blog. Depending on the correspondent, that is defined as  either denying people their civil right to gloat, hiding the “truth” that people of the RC faith are welcomed and encouraged to come to Ibrox, or indulging in Chamberlain-style appeasement with the banning of the “H” word and other incontrovertible rights-to-insult.

The objection to moderation of any sort appears to be at the root of these diatribes. Our position here in terms of moderation is clear. There is no “agenda” other than a desire not to be chasing up posts containing the rantings and ravings of partisan types who “demand” their right to be heard no matter how objectionable it might be to those hear it. We are not here to service a conduit for conspiracy theories based in Masonic Lodges or the Vatican. There are plenty of places where people can indulge in that kind of stuff, but the moderators here are just not interested. The administration of the site takes around four hours per day. That’s a long time trawling through posts which often set out deliberately to insult, abuse or otherwise cause offence – mildly or otherwise.

Our view is that the blog will only have cross-club support if we stick to what we can substantiate by fact or reasonably infer from the way things proceed. Further, we feel that if we are to gain credibility as an alternative source of news and comment to the MSM, that we need to cut down on the fansite type comments. There is no dignity (a word often used here) in calling the Rangers manager or their fans names. We need to maintain higher standards of impartiality than football fansites, because we know that a united fan base can actually make a difference as RTC did when the SPL chairmen were gearing up for a parachute for the new Rangers. OT discussions are fine, and often amusing, but they shouldn’t become the main reason to come here.

The requirement to have a WordPress account before posting here is not in any way draconian. It is designed to make people accountable for what they post whilst still maintaining anonymity, and therefore being exempt from moderation. Those who don’t like it are not being compelled to carry out any instruction – they only need go to a place where they don’t feel so constrained.

If the main issue of this blog becomes how the blog is being administered – or how the moderation policy is affecting the human rights of posters, we may as well just pack up now.

There have never been any objections to the suggested posting rules on here. We assume that people who post are reasonably intelligent. Therefore it seems fair to assume that those who have ignored the suggested posting rules did so deliberately. If that doesn’t happen, moderation is just not required.

If what we are trying to do fails because of our posting framework, then we will be blamed. We are certain though, that we can have no credibility if we indulge ourselves in conspiracy theories and constant references to anachronistic organisations, the Scottish school system, and the leanings of referees.

There is real corruption in Scottish football. It is based not on religious rivalries but on greed and acquisitiveness. The only thing that matters is that we identify that corruption and help put an end to it.

Our job is to ask questions and not jump to our own conclusions about the answers. That will divide us as surely as the realisation of the depth of the corruption united us. To be totally united as fans, we need to have more Rangers fans on here. Therefore we need to create an atmosphere that they can be comfortable with. Is that the case right now? The anger for RFC’s mismanagement and abuse of the game in Scotland is real, but we need to look forward if we are truly committed to ensuring that what happened to Rangers can’t happen again.

We’re not gonna throw the toys out of the pram here. If anyone else would like to run the blog under those circumstances of zero moderation, we will be happy to hand over the domain. There is no “agenda” – we will be happy to hand the work over to others.

The initial posting which proposed the change to WordPress logins received over 130 TUs and only three TDs. Subsequently the post advising of the changes got around 100 TUs and 100 TDs. It seems that minds are not entirely made up.

To get some closure on this once and for all, we have added a poll below to end on Saturday at 1700 where you can decide whether you want to go along with our original plan in terms of login and moderation. We obviously recommend that you vote “Yes”

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,133 Comments so far

AllyJamboPosted on4:43 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Been catching up after a holiday and some interesting debates going on; registered with wordpress and for those interested (probably no one) I was previously Allyjambo Taxpayer, here and on RTC.

It’s good to see the Nimmo Smith Enquiry taking shape at last and it certainly seems LNS is calling the shots and no doubt somewhat annoyed by the CG/Sevco/RFC attitude, and while I doubt he’d let that influence his judgement, it gives him a clear indication of the kind of people
he’s dealing with, whether or not they turn up to represent oldco, or newco, or anything inbetween.

I was very surprised to read his conclusion that the Club were separate from the company but whether or not that stands up, in the event of an appeal, it will put to bed the question of newco being a continuation of RFC one way or the other. I think the upshot is; if the ‘Club’ still exists, in a football/SPL sense, it will carry the can for it’s wrongdoings as well as the history and trophies, otherwise everyone, including Green and the supporters, will have to accept RFC is dead and the team playing at Ibrox is not Rangers. Just how Green, and the MSM, could argue otherwise would be very entertaining and is probably why, at this stage, Green is not getting involved with the tribunal, wanting to leave trying to argue ‘yes we are the Club'(in the prospectus for his floatation), then ‘no we’re not the Club’ (when trying to weasle out of any sanctions that are forthcoming), for as long as possible. In fact, should Green find it necessary to take it to an appeal, and successfully shows that oldco and the ‘Club’ were one and the same so any sanctions must be left with oldco, he will have killed off Rangers more surely than had he just accepted that newco was in fact a newclub, from the outset, as the fact will then be written in stone (gravestone?), or at least documented and irrefutable.

I think Green is about to discover that Scots Law Lords are just a tad harder to intimidate than Scottish football administrators who see pound signs ahead of justice.

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bogsdolloxPosted on5:01 pm - Sep 24, 2012


HirsutePursuit says:
September 24, 2012 at 15:59
===================================
From memory LH gave D&P 2 weeks to write him a report – which, according to their latest creditor report, I believe they did.

How LH responded to that report is unknown; but, since the administration period has not yet ended, you may think that he is not entirely satisfied.

Simply due to the lack of information, it would not surprise me if there are some reporting restrictions currently in place. Though, I have no knowledge or heard of of such.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Given that D&P (albeit with a different hat on) were also advisors to Whyte on acquisition and that purchase is subject to a police investigation, following allegations of fraud, I can’t help thinking his Lordship has been in dialogue with the boys in blue.

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briggsbhoyPosted on5:12 pm - Sep 24, 2012


exiledcelt says:

September 24, 2012 at 11:54

Danish Pastry says:

September 24, 2012 at 10:21

briggsbhoy says:
September 24, 2012 at 00:46
12 1 Rate This
Colours Symbolism Flags & Nationalism
—————

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland

the white does represent the peace – I had heard that too previously
*********************************************************************************
I never ever checked it before I just knew all these years my father would be correct, but thanks for the link.
I was putting that piece together the other day and ended up having to save it onto a word document as the wife was moaning “what you doing, get off the laptop”. “I’m trying to post on a blog about the corruption in Scottish Football”. Ten minutes later she says ” your sad and I’d wish you’d get off that bog thing” lol

Danish ase for a Blackburn type strip in three colours, nah.

I think Chuck needs to consider the company he keeps if someone persuaded him that wearing the said top would be a great idea, not that it bothered me. I see Chuckie is about to launch the following line of clothing for all rangers supporters. Looks good doesn’t he !

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=barbershop+singers+red+white+stripped+jacket&um=1&hl=en&biw=847&bih=502&tbm=isch&tbnid=z98HDa2eJ7ZD-M:&imgrefurl=http://www.buy.com/th/mens-blazer-coat.html&docid=jZ4ecPKwHTd9aM&imgurl=http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/500/213913276.jpg&w=500&h=500&ei=04NgUJKLBeKj0QXp24A4&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=203&vpy=146&dur=1809&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=111&ty=162&sig=118015988077602350757&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=141&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:86

He’s the leader of Chuckie Ragtime band

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justshateredPosted on5:16 pm - Sep 24, 2012


I see JJB are in the process of entering administration. Another consequence of Rangers collapse. A company that had a contract with them covering the sale of merchandise which had another few years to run.
As Chas Green was telling everyone that this is the same Rangers D&P were in court arguing that they were in fact a different company/club to ensure the striking of the contract with JJB. The court found in Rangers favour allowing them to sign a new deal with Sports Direct and, just over one month later, JJB go under with a threat to over a thousand jobs.
Put this against the 170 odd jobs at Rangers and you see where everyone’s priorities lie here.
I wonder if Alex Salmond will be contacting anyone on behalf of JJB!!!!

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wottpiPosted on5:20 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Just a wee item for discussion.

Here is the squad from Sunday.

Alexander, Faure, Perry, Emilson Cribari, Wallace, Argyriou, Macleod, Black (Sandaza 64), McKay (Aird 55), Shiels (Crawford 79), McCulloch. Subs Not Used: Gallacher, Stella.

This is about as good as it gets for the moment keeping in mind that Templeton and Kyle missing.
Some of the young lads look handy but have not really been tested.
Alexander and McCulloch’s contracts are up for renewal but they like Kyle are getting on and could drop out through injury at anytime.

Even with a successful IPO that cash is not all going to go on players when the embargo is lifted and even if it did how long would it take for the cash to run out due to payment of new and ongoing wages etc?

Therefore where do people see T’Rangers fitting in even if they made an early return to the SPL?

The Motherwell game on Wednesday will be an indicator but I can’t see them being much more than a run of the mill top 6 team battling it out for second spot and Euro places.

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Danish PastryPosted on5:32 pm - Sep 24, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
September 24, 2012 at 17:12

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=barbershop+singers+red+white+stripped+jacket&um=1&hl=en&biw=847&bih=502&tbm=isch&tbnid=z98HDa2eJ7ZD-M:&imgrefurl=http://www.buy.com/th/mens-blazer-coat.html&docid=jZ4ecPKwHTd9aM&imgurl=http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/500/213913276.jpg&w=500&h=500&ei=04NgUJKLBeKj0QXp24A4&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=203&vpy=146&dur=1809&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=111&ty=162&sig=118015988077602350757&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=141&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:86
————

You do know he met with Chuck Blazer the other day? They say he’s well in with the Blazers!

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steviebcPosted on5:33 pm - Sep 24, 2012


A stupid question, but will ask it anyway…

What is the SFA doing to proactively gauge ALL football supporters’ sentiment wrt RFC/Sevco, and possible title losses and – more importantly – appropriate punishment ?

If the SFA continues to mishandle this whole debacle, the SFA itself will be responsible for seriously damaging the long-term future of football in Scotland, IMHO. [And that could apply at all levels – from juveniles up to professional level.]

If the SFA misjudges the public mood – again – then I fear that a lot of paying punters would permanently ‘walk away’ from the game, and it would send out all the wrong signals to Scottish youth wrt fair play, honesty, respect etc…

Is the SFA really aware of what the fans think ? Does the SFA care about those opinions ?

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easyJamboPosted on5:56 pm - Sep 24, 2012


For what it’s worth, I’ll take a guess that the commission will find RFC PLC and Rangers FC guilty on all charges.

SPL and SFA honours won during the investigated period will be withdrawn. (this will be described as a consequence of fielding players who were not properly registered and not a punishment)

Punishment of RFC PLC will be limited to the banning of SDM from future involvement is Scottish Football. This may be extended to other ex Directors such as Bain, McClelland, Johnston etc., but whether or not Ogilvie will be sanctioned is a moot point.

Rangers FC will be suspended from joining the SPL for 2/3/5* years (* delete as appropriate), but will be reduded on appeal to a max of two seasons in order that they can continue to operate as they are.

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ekbhoyPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 24, 2012


It seems to me that there has been mistake after mistake by the R*gers Mgt over the years as they pander to their support.

Green is following in that tradition turning down an offer from the SFA-SPL to play football in perpetuity for just the loss of a few titles.

It seems to me that when LNS and his colleagues consider the punishments , how can the removal of the football license not be top of the list?

The SFA will pass this hot potato back to the clubs due to the economic impact of losing R*gers and I suspect that we will have an EGM with clubs voting to keep R*Gers in existence. To keep them in existence there will be a string of financial punishments to offset the years of skullduggery.

I expect that the SFA will string this out as long as possible in the hope that ‘something turns up ‘ theory to avoid them making a decision, however my money would be on , everyone back to Hampden for another vote.

This assumes Green can keep the ship afloat

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on6:04 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Did anyone else notice in the draft agreement that the period of exclusion from European competition was scored through?

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stmileyPosted on6:12 pm - Sep 24, 2012


EasyJambo

Add a fine and that is about where I am.

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wolvibhoyPosted on6:15 pm - Sep 24, 2012


easyJambo

Rangers FC will be suspended from joining the SPL for 2/3/5* years (* delete as appropriate), but will be reduded on appeal to a max of two seasons in order that they can continue to operate as they are.

———————————————————-

Can’t see that happening as that would be no punishment at all in real terms. It would be like applying a transfer ban after the transfer window is closed. And they wouldn’t do that.

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andyPosted on6:23 pm - Sep 24, 2012


jabba having free reign on radio scotland to spout nonsense about EBTs

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doontheslopePosted on6:27 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Easyjambo

So really this is all about what will be seen as acceptable, to allow resuscitation/continuation.

Are you factoring in, that over the summer, the antics of practically everyone involved with Rangers/Sevco/Newco have so considerably p@ssed off every football supporter/tax payer/bemused onlooker, that ordinary decent people might just scream in exasperation, “For f@cks sake, enough!!”

Sevco fans seem to be experiencing a very real antipathy from all quarters at the moment (wrongly perceived as bogitry.)

What kills them ultimately, may well be….. public opinion.

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AgrajagPosted on6:29 pm - Sep 24, 2012


wolvibhoy says:
September 24, 2012 at 18:15

===========================

Actually I thought the transfer ban was quite clever.

If the ban had started immediately the Rangers could not have bought players in August 2012 and January 2013.

However, in reality Rangers couldn’t really buy anyone in August 2012 anyway, and Green certainly didn’t want to.

Now they miss January 2013 and August 2013, so can’t get players for the beginning of next season.

Basically they didn’t start the embargo during a time when Rangers would be struggling to do decent business anyway. Yes they could get players during August 2012, and were forced into it. However I am sure if they had the choice they would have done their business next August, when they will be expecting to move to a higher level.

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neepheidPosted on6:29 pm - Sep 24, 2012


steviebc says:
September 24, 2012 at 17:33

Is the SFA really aware of what the fans think ? Does the SFA care about those opinions ?
========
Very simply answered- No and No.

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ExiledCeltPosted on6:29 pm - Sep 24, 2012


wottpi – the biggest advantage they have at the moment is that they are full time players – other teams are tiring – especially at Ibrox – late in the game. The other advantage they will have is they will be able to keep training at Murray park in the cold winter when all other pitches are frozen. Now given that Ibrox has under soil heating and a huge crowd, I expect their home record to continue – their away form I think will not be much better than it is – with tight venues, cold dressing rooms and frozen/thawing pitches, some away games may be levelers. Their game at Hampden will be interesting!
On Weds I think Motherwell will run out winners – Swally is setting the bar that they are underdogs so he can say, well we expected to get beat….
That current team would be struggling with Dundee at the moment – I feel sorry for Dundee because they did not have time to prepare for SPL.
I would still expect Swally to get his team promoted – but not by much as it won’t be the march through the division they predicted that is for sure

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ExiledCeltPosted on6:32 pm - Sep 24, 2012


testing – posts going stright to moderation – no bad words – should I be paranoid?

[SFM EDIT: EC WordPress is picking on you for some reason. Trying to suds it out, but most of what you post is being held. ]

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easternexpatPosted on6:41 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Radio Scotland’s choice of Derek Ferguson has not been very astute.

Shocking radio with no balanced argument.

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BrendaPosted on6:52 pm - Sep 24, 2012


SSB no real pundits tonight !!! I think they’re realising that we know they’re tellin porkies……. 🙂

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wottpiPosted on6:56 pm - Sep 24, 2012


And there you have it for anyone who needs it.

The standard question to non Sevcovians from some people in the MSM is ‘Why are you bothered about Rangers?’

Well Sportsound had Sandy Clarke on there and he was asked before talking about QoS and their upcoming match v Dundee Utd, what did he think about the T’Rangers team having beaten them late week.

Hats off to Sandy as an ex-Ger for grudgingly provide an answer but pointing out he would rather be talking about QoS.

If the MSM and the BBC included have to turn all footballing stories back towards Ibrox then who are we to be criticised for taking an interest.

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easternexpatPosted on6:59 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Tried a reasonably relevant post as a test.

Hopefully the WordPress registration torture is over and normal service can continue – even with a slight change to username.

I will direct my irritation at the poor customer experience to WordPress.

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coineanachantaighePosted on7:05 pm - Sep 24, 2012


nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 24, 2012 at 18:04
Did anyone else notice in the draft agreement that the period of exclusion from European competition was scored through?
————————————————————————–
Didn’t but if it was, maybe because that isn’t really in the gift of the SFA at the moment (or for 3-4 years to come)?

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wottpiPosted on7:10 pm - Sep 24, 2012


easternexpat says:
September 24, 2012 at 18:41
2 0 i
Rate This
Radio Scotland’s choice of Derek Ferguson has not been very astute.

Shocking radio with no balanced argument.
============================================
And no brains.

Apparently footballers just do as their agents say and know nothing of fnalcial matters.
However he seemed to be pretty knowledgable about bungs aplenty and the likes going on in all corners of the game.

Funny enough I bet he has never taken these accusations to the authorities but is happy to air them on natinal radio – fudd with a capital F.

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StevieBCPosted on7:18 pm - Sep 24, 2012


exiledcelt says:
September 24, 2012 at 18:29

wottpi – the biggest advantage they have at the moment is that they are full time players – other teams are tiring – especially at Ibrox – late in the game…

I would still expect Swally to get his team promoted – but not by much as it won’t be the march through the division they predicted that is for sure.
========================================

Absolutely !

Full-time team v. part-time team = Unfair Advantage = ‘Tainted’ Title. 😉

And if the end of the season is very close, e.g. Sevco are playing the joint leaders of SFL3 in a ‘must win’ final game for the promotion spot – would anyone believe that Sevco would not win ?

Again, with all that has gone on so far with the collusion/rule bending of the SFA/SPL, why would it be far-fetched to think that such an important Sevco game would not be a guaranteed win ?

…for the good of Scottish football, of course… 🙄

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justshateredPosted on7:18 pm - Sep 24, 2012


wottpi says:
September 24, 2012 at 18:56

‘Why are you bothered about Rangers?’

I posted a while back that I believe we should respond by saying that, after being told that our clubs futures depend on a strong Rangers by the MSM, SFA, and SPL for the last six months, that it is our duty, in protecting the interest of our own clubs to ask questions.

Particularly when the media seem incapable of asking any probing questions at all.

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taxman comethPosted on7:19 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Would be nice for anyone to actually ask the players/managers

How could you not know about the scam given that YOU had to apply for a loan for your agreed wages?

How much have you repaid? – If nothing, why?

SSB was just a long list of apologists, the lie of “the same would have been done if it were Celtic” was dusted off again – well we saw how the establishment and MSM reacted in 1994 didn’t we

I have to say that I have the very strong sense a stitch up is on the way, all the players are positioned

Has anyone figured out why 11 or 12th October could be a good news day for RFC(IA)/Sevco?

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wottpiPosted on7:24 pm - Sep 24, 2012


justshatered says:
September 24, 2012 at 19:18

Must have missed that post but I am in total agreement.

Well said.

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AgrajagPosted on7:33 pm - Sep 24, 2012


The thing that amazes me is that so little is ever said about the PAYE / NI and VAT that Rangers failed to pay in the year up to February 2012.

There is all sort of discussion about EBTs, FTTs and all sorts of esoteric tax and legal matters.

Everyone seems to forget that Rangers collected somewhere in the region of £14m, from their employees and customers and instead of giving that money to HMRC the just spent it. No complex issues, no ifs or buts, just collected a load of money and stole it.

That was in fact the bit that eventually put them into both administration and liquidation, and is the simplest part of this whole fiasco. No-one ever discusses it, well not really.

I find that fascinating.

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essexbeancounterPosted on7:37 pm - Sep 24, 2012


justshatered says:

September 24, 2012 at 17:16

Rate This

I see JJB are in the process of entering administration. Another consequence of Rangers collapse. A company that had a contract with them covering the sale of merchandise which had another few years to run.
As Chas Green was telling everyone that this is the same Rangers D&P were in court arguing that they were in fact a different company/club to ensure the striking of the contract with JJB. The court found in Rangers favour allowing them to sign a new deal with Sports Direct and, just over one month later, JJB go under with a threat to over a thousand jobs.
Put this against the 170 odd jobs at Rangers and you see where everyone’s priorities lie here.
I wonder if Alex Salmond will be contacting anyone on behalf of JJB!!!
==================================================================
Sad as it most certainly will be to see any job losses, I look forward to the appointment of administrators, KPMG, and the corrrect application of the principles of “company in administration”. My only concern is the use of the “pre-pack”…which I abhor!

Duff and Phelps, who appeared to be acting in the best interests of RFC, in administration or otherwise, as opposed to the interests of the creditors, should pay the utmost attention to see how they should have behaved.

Perhaps I am being too fussy about this…no, the blazes I am….!

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on7:49 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Interesting tweets earlier from RTC, stating an amount of 45 million avoided by RFC, not approximately, or about, but a definite amount. Interesting I thought.

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StevieBCPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 24, 2012


TSFM – help !

My posts for the first time are going into ‘Moderation’.

If relevant: only change is that today I updated my name from ‘steviebc’ to ‘StevieBC’.

Thanks.

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StevieBCPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 24, 2012


TSFM – spoke too soon – ta !

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rabPosted on8:26 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Nowoldandgrumpy

There was also a tweet saying that he expected the result would be known soon.

I found that similarly interesting.

This has been gathering momentum like a stalactite race, but October and November appear to be significant months in terms of the FTT and then dual contract investigations.

The race to be the biggest stalactite often ends in critical mass being achieved followed by the sudden realisation that it is smashed to pieces on the floor.

And do i win a prize for the worst analogy ever.

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Sugar DaddyPosted on8:51 pm - Sep 24, 2012


easyJambo says:
September 24, 2012 at 17:56

Cant see it being much different to your forecast unless the FTT completely skewer RFC(IA/PL) and all the directors involved, so I’d add a CO resignation if that were the case.

Agrajag says:
September 24, 2012 at 19:33

I surmise that the administration/liquidation was the punishment. However, why no action has been taken against directors for so doing is another matter entirely.

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easyJamboPosted on8:55 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Another statement to muddy the waters from Alastair Johnston

In light of the recent statement issued by the SPL citing the terms of reference of the Commission appointed to explore the activities of Rangers Football Club, let me, at the outset, emphasize that I am not concerned about the impartiality of the learned gentlemen who will adjudicate on this matter.

I am, however, more wary as to the directives that have been provided to them by the SPL which in itself is constituted by competitors of the Club who have a vested interest in the outcome of the proceedings.

By convening a Commission composed of eminent members of the legal profession, it is no surprise that formalities are being expounded upon which would make the eyes of the average Rangers stakeholder glaze over. The ponderous tone alternating the focus between “Oldco” and “Newco” are, in my opinion, a distraction from what really matters.

“Rangers” are “Rangers” notwithstanding the legal nuances caused by the application of various bankruptcy laws. The heritage and records of the Club rest with the institution that is “Rangers,” and no amount of self-serving diatribe to the contrary, no matter how relentlessly pursued, can rewrite history.

However, I still remain bothered by the fact that the focus and isolation of Rangers and its adoption of EBT’s conveniently avoids exposing and evaluating a much broader principle embraced by the SPL rules and regulations. If the fundamental issue is a deficiency in furnishing information about overall player compensation, the Commission’s mandate should allow it to investigate and extract testimony under oath as to the utilization by all clubs of the concept of multi-contracts separating wages for playing football from other services. Compensation in a variety of forms whereby players participate financially in the license of their image rights to the club should especially be investigated as “image rights” come in a variety of guises. For example, a player can be given proceeds from the sale of the club top featuring his name, often under a separate negotiation with the kit supplier, or be provided with a car by a sponsor for appearing in an advertisement. Anyone with any knowledge of the process would testify to the fact that agents representing a foreign player joining a club in the UK will usually introduce the possibility of this segregation which is designed to mitigate the income tax liability of his client. The dilemma in these circumstances replicates that of the adoption of EBT’s. If the club files notification of this arrangement to the SPL, then it strongly suggests that it directly relates to signing with the club in order to play football for its team, thereby nullifying to a greater extent the theory behind an “image rights” contract designed to avoid standard taxes. If it doesn’t supply this information to the authorities, it finds itself in the predicament that has befallen Rangers because of its use of EBT’s. The principle is the same.

I also remain apprehensive that the guidance with respect to the penalties that could be applied on Rangers will be imposed on the Commission by vested interests in the SPL. Transparency here is fundamental. Justice must be served, but the punishment must fit the crime. Use of EBT schemes were broadly adopted by a variety of businesses during the era prior to them being specifically outlawed by designated legislation introduced only a couple of years ago. Also, as has been widely reported, Rangers made absolutely no attempt to disguise or deny their adoption, and they were fully disclosed in the annual reports and independently certified financial statements. What is galling, however, is the fact that it was not unusual for representatives of Rangers to openly discuss activation of EBT’s with their opposite numbers at other clubs during the era under investigation. I suspect that the Commission will not pursue this avenue of investigation, but it would be interesting whether or not “selective amnesia” would be exhibited by those Executives/Directors called to testify under oath about their ongoing familiarity with the Rangers scheme. It is ironic to reflect on the fact that the longer they maintained strategic silence on these conversations, the more extensive the number of titles that could be stripped if and when the opportunity arose subsequently to neutralize the successes that were earned by Rangers on the pitch.

At the end of the day, whatever misdemeanor could be validly charged to Rangers, surely it was a breach of procedure, not “cheating” or financial doping. The eminent members of the Commission must ask themselves – what were the real, not fabricated, consequences of Rangers not registering the information on EBT’s directly with the SPL. On the contrary, what actions would have been taken by the SPL at the time if all the detail of the EBTS, the total of which was reported annually in public accounts, had been submitted in a timely form. I genuinely suspect that the compliance officer would have reviewed the documents, ticked the important boxes that dealt with the players status and then routinely filed them for posterity. The Commission hearing this case must consider the real impact of any default. A verdict that Rangers essentially did not in fact adhere to stipulated procedures, does not warrant capital punishment.

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easyJamboPosted on9:09 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Message for Alastair Johnston.

What is so difficult for you to understand? The SFA and SPL have no interest in the tax efficiency of the players remuneration. It can be paid via an EBT, new cars, used pound notes, bags of sugar et al. All that is required is that the remuneration forms part of the contract details supplied to the SFA and SPL in respect of each player.

Yes it is a procedural issue that the contract details are incomplete, but one has to ask why the details weren’t included din the players contracts. Could it be that the payments would NOT be tax efficient if such information was disclosed as being contractual?

By the way, clubs have been thown out the Scottish Cup for failing to date a contract correctly.

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angus1983Posted on9:09 pm - Sep 24, 2012


AJ: “If the fundamental issue is a deficiency in furnishing information about overall player compensation, the Commission’s mandate should allow it to investigate and extract testimony under oath as to the utilization by all clubs blah blah blah …”

Classic whataboutery.

” …they were fully disclosed in the annual reports …”

Lie.

AND THE BEST BIT …

“The eminent members of the Commission must ask themselves – what were the real, not fabricated, consequences of Rangers not registering the information on EBT’s directly with the SPL. ”

Sounds pretty much like a confession to me. 🙂

Much squirming going on. Excellent stuff.

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StevieBCPosted on9:13 pm - Sep 24, 2012


easyJambo says:
September 24, 2012 at 20:55

“…At the end of the day, whatever misdemeanor could be validly charged to Rangers, surely it was a breach of procedure, not “cheating” or financial doping…”
===================================================

Skimming through AJ’s statement – and wondering why he should be bothering issuing a statement from his base in USA where he is well out of it – the above sentence jumped out.

I interepret the above as finally, admission from a member of the previous RFC plc board that “they are in the wrong” – but in mitigation, “it was really just a technicality”, so nothing to get excited about…

Maybe he’s been speaking to Jabba and/or Jack ?

I get the feeling that something malodorous is about to hit the fan, imminently… 😉

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Dave BPosted on9:13 pm - Sep 24, 2012


test

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bad capt madmanPosted on9:16 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Re AJs statement, my considered response would be along the lines of…
1 What a bollocks of a defence…In effect he’s saying, well, we maybe did some things wrong over a long period of time, but its still just a procedural error by all those best administrators in the world, in the biggest club in the country, and there’s no harm done really, and some ebts are legal even if ours maybe had a wee problem, and some players get image rights so we can cheat all we like, and so please don’t give us any punishments please.
2 the SPL shouldn’t have a say in any of this as they are our competitors, well, no, you’re in Div Three
3 so no potential peers/competitors should have a say in the implemetation of accepted rules? More bollocks
4 somebody in the SFA should have seen what we were trying to hide, and stopped us despite all our placemen, and the probable combined establishment not wanting rfc to fail., so that lets us off the hook. In efffect, a wee boy did it and ran away

What a Blusterin buffoon! Is this guy supposed to be a succesful businessman / director??
He also opens the can of worms that RFC directors probably boasted to other clubs about their EBT scam. Is this true? Interesting, forus conspiracy thoerists, but it doesn’t let them off the hook?

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BrendaPosted on9:16 pm - Sep 24, 2012


A message to A J ……whatever! 🙂

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dukinfisgustedPosted on9:28 pm - Sep 24, 2012


What’s the odds on a “Record Exclusive” from AJ this week.This really is a joke,he will be telling us next that Billy “not I”Dodds really had an agent and knew nothing of this EBT’s.
PLEASE !!!

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AgrajagPosted on9:35 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Sugar Daddy says:
September 24, 2012 at 20:51

Agrajag says:
September 24, 2012 at 19:33

I surmise that the administration/liquidation was the punishment. However, why no action has been taken against directors for so doing is another matter entirely.

==============================

People are making certain assumptions on how HMRC will act.

To assume that they will not take action against those behind Rangers FC PLC, whether it be civil action to recover funds, or crimina action in relation to their behaviour is to make a dangerous assumption.

Remember what Malcolm Cohen’s specialisms are.

“Malcolm leads the firms’ Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud.”

Do people really think HMRC picked him at random.

This is far from over for Rangers FC PLC and the people who orchestrated the tax evasion.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on9:37 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Can I ask where is the evidence that indicates that the SFA are influencing the Commission by previously discussing removal of trophies and league titles.

Would the Commission even have had knowledge of this if Charlie had not announced it himself, probably not. So if anyone is trying to influence the outcome of the Commission it has to be Charlie and whomever leaked the draft agreement. I notice there has been no mention of the final agreement or the request to have that one made public. I would conjecture that it does not have the stripping of titles, but an agreement for the Commission to rule on any punishment if found guilty and likely signed by Charlie.

In relation to the 5 way agreement itself.

The 5 way non-agreement, IMO shows fully the weak leadership of the SFA and the SPL.

The agreement was/should have been a set of requirements that would have allowed TRFC to receive membership of the SFA, rightly or wrongly.
The weak SFA and SPL, then go into a week of negotiations with Sevco. Why, these requirements should not have been up for negotiation. If they were not fully agreed to then membership should have been refused.

So does this fill me with confidence that the SFA will acknowledge the decision of the Commission, no it does not.
IMO whatever decision the commission reaches, the only punishment that TRFC will receive is the stripping of cups and Leagues won during the period covered by the investigation.
Any decision on suspension or withdrawal of SFA membership, will be found to be a step too far.

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Dave BPosted on9:39 pm - Sep 24, 2012


SSB tonight continuing the mantra that players were not to blame for RFC’s financial policies that resulted in questionable trophy rewards so stripping titles would not serve any purpose.

There does not appear to be any consideration of fans of all clubs (including RFC) who have been cheated by the distortion of the sport that they invested time and money in.

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carlisleceltPosted on9:41 pm - Sep 24, 2012


This club are as guilty as hell of fraud and deception on a grand scale and are trying to convince all and sundry though guilty they are not really guilty. I have to say it is all getting rather pathetic. Why do they not let justice take it place and accept the punishement accordingly.

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campsiejoePosted on9:43 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Mr Surrender No, put the shovel down, and stop digging
In your opinion, RFC(IA) were guilty of “procedural errors” in more than 50 cases of player’s contracts
Dear oh dear, you must be getting worried to release a statement like that

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BrendaPosted on9:44 pm - Sep 24, 2012


SSB tonight was a sad, pathetic, straw-clutching effort 😉

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rabPosted on9:45 pm - Sep 24, 2012


AJ

Bain sent McClelland an email asking for evidence of his ebt payment to be shredded, just like he had to do with the players.

Its cheating alright.

And very probably tax evasion.

So stop releasing misleading statements.

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TommyBPosted on9:48 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Someone should take CG et al aside and explain to them that it is possible, that the upcoming hearing could actually find them guilty and yet impose no punishment per se. Removing previously won titles and other awards, is not a punishment and would not penalise the current set up. It would simply be a rewriting of the records of Scottish Football, an administrative process, with no cost to anyone at Ibrokes. Of course it may be that he and others would rather have a finacial penalty imposed, they would then most likely refuse to pay and appeal to whatever jurisdiction they see fit. All that can be certain is that this whole sorry mess will be with us for a while yet.

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angus1983Posted on9:54 pm - Sep 24, 2012


campsiejoe says:
September 24, 2012 at 21:43

Dear oh dear, you must be getting worried to release a statement like that
—-

Yes, a statement which all but admits guilt before Nimmo Smith and his mates have even convened, and pleads for mercy in quite pathetic manner.

Why make such a statement now? It’s still several weeks before the hearing.

I can only imagine that it has something to do with the forthcoming SFA statement on the matter which has been touted for the next 48 hours sometime.

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droidPosted on9:54 pm - Sep 24, 2012


I would like to thank all SPL sides for such a fantastic opener to this the first ”Honest” season.

Anything can happen this year and that is clearly an incentive for clubs to up their game.

It is a breath of fresh air knowing we now have a more level playing field where sporting ability and determination can shine.

All because of the permanent abscence of one club and their cheating, deceitful ways. :mrgreen:

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campsiejoePosted on9:56 pm - Sep 24, 2012


the taxman cometh @ 19:19

Would be nice for anyone to actually ask the players/managers
How could you not know about the scam given that YOU had to apply for a loan for your agreed wages?
How much have you repaid? – If nothing, why?
===========================================================================
This is where the argument that the players were innocent parties collapses
According to the apologists, not one of them or their advisers thought that this arrangement was just a little bit “iffy”
Ooops, the velcro at the back of my head has just become undone

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jean7brodiePosted on9:58 pm - Sep 24, 2012


carlislecelt says:
September 24, 2012 at 21:41

Because they have no soul, no conscience, no heart, no humility etc.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on10:01 pm - Sep 24, 2012


angus1983 says:
September 24, 2012 at 21:54

I was wondering about that forthcoming SFA statement. Why in 24hrs? Are they aware of the FTT ruling?

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AllyJamboPosted on10:02 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Nice one AJ! It’s been months since we heard from you, and that’s the best you can come up with! A rehash of the rubbish spouted by Jabba and friends and a great many Internet Geniuses over on FF.

Sounds to me he’s aware the brown stuff is heading for the fan and he wants to show the Ibrox faithfull that he still cares about Rangers before they realise he was in it up to his kneck. He’s surely intelligent enough to realise that such drivel isn’t going to help his old club one little bit so why else would he bother? You’d think that by now these people would have realised that, unless they can come up with something that proves no wrongdoing was done, they’d be better shutting up. Does he think Lord Nimmo Smith is going to read it and think, ‘Oh wait a minute,
maybe no rules were broken after all!’

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campsiejoePosted on10:06 pm - Sep 24, 2012


angus1983 @ 21:54

It would appear that some people are getting worried, and it will be interesting to see what guff the SFA come up with
Mr Surrender No’s statement looks like a pathetic attempt at a pre-emptive strike, and when taken in conjunction with all of the nonsense being spouted by Green, McCoist, the Sevconians and the media, it would appear that an attempt at damage limitation is under way

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BrendaPosted on10:07 pm - Sep 24, 2012


.
????? No naughty words moderation????

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AllyJamboPosted on10:11 pm - Sep 24, 2012


droid says:
September 24, 2012 at 21:54

Have you noticed that, so far this season, the SPL is just as competative as, say, SFL3? Now I don’t think that was in anyone’s script 😉

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wottpiPosted on10:16 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Re AJ’s latest statement.

One question,

If all the other SPL chairmen and executives knew about EBT’s and how wonderful they were as AJ claims why did no one else call up SDM and ask for advice on how they could help save their clubs some money? Sir Tom Farmer is no fool with his cash and I am sure he could have done with a few extra pounds down Easter Road way. The Pie Man at Tynecastle could have done with a wee bit extra dosh before Vlad had to ride to the ‘rescue’. Milne & Thompson at the ‘New Firm’ were experienced businessmen. Yet no other club apparently thought about using EBT’s as a method of passing on cash to their players or to attract a better quality of player . To me that says it all.

PS (secondary question) I note that Green was in North America last week. Is AJ not supposed to be a big cheese over ther?. If as Green suspects there is cash to be had why did AJ not manage to get anything during his time as chairman?

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essexbeancounterPosted on10:20 pm - Sep 24, 2012


angus1983 says:

September 24, 2012 at 21:09

Rate This

AJ: “If the fundamental issue is a deficiency in furnishing information about overall player compensation, the Commission’s mandate should allow it to investigate and extract testimony under oath as to the utilization by all clubs blah blah blah …”

Classic whataboutery.

” …they were fully disclosed in the annual reports …”

Lie.

AND THE BEST BIT …

“The eminent members of the Commission must ask themselves – what were the real, not fabricated, consequences of Rangers not registering the information on EBT’s directly with the SPL. ”

Sounds pretty much like a confession to me.

Much squirming going on. Excellent stuff.
======================================================================
” …they were fully disclosed in the annual reports …”

If I hear that line again….!

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Sugar DaddyPosted on10:36 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Agrajag says:
September 24, 2012 at 21:35
 
I fully agree. The sooner BDO get into action, the sooner the FTT reports, the sooner Lord Nimmo investigates, the better. That way there will be so much less heat and a bit more light.

As much as they annoy & amuse, the MSM & their pundit pals know next to nothing and what they do they know is presented in the best possible light for RFC(IA/PL). Their effect on the outcome is negligible.

If RFC(IA/PL) directors sat at board meetings and put company business through on the nod they deserve all that is coming to them. Ignorance is not a defence.

If tax was deliberately evaded those that instigated & perpetuated the scheme should face prosecution.

There is a lull in the information flow until BDO, FTT & NImmo get to work. For Green, SDM, MBB, D&P, CO & former directors at Ibrox they can afford to relax a little.

Enjoy it fellas, it’s as good now as it is going to get.

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bad capt madmanPosted on10:38 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Carlislecelt & jean7brodie,

Thanks, you’ve reminded me of the standard responses and mindset of “we’ve been punished enough, or oh those poor players just played the game and their medals shouldn’t be taken from them” stuff.

Pathetic excuses for people who should man up and take the consequences of what their club, directors, CEO, chairmen, agents and players etc all did, and all for their ‘success’. Its as if there are no other people in the world, never mind people who were actually disadvantaged due to their cheating, either sporting or financially. Amazingly, there are msm professionals who seem to miss out any understanding of a need for justice and a concern for the victims of the various misdeeds.

Its the same mindset of neds and criminals, pardon the intemperate language. No empathy, understanding of consequences or justice. Its all me me me. It seems this has gone from an individual pathology to a collective one. Young neds can perhaps blame an under developed pre frontal cortex for their aberrent behaviour, but companies, clubs, adults and professionals can’t.

Very sad, and aso depressing that it’s happening in Scotland, I thought we were a better country than this. We once had a country and folk who contributed to enlightenment, equality, creativity and progress.

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jfl68Posted on10:49 pm - Sep 24, 2012


I haven’t posted for a few months and when I come back in for a look, rumours abound that the FTT result is about to hit, Rangers are complaining about the SFA and SPL, and AJ has just turned up with a statement.

Some things just don’t change…

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:50 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Once again,
Not a legal expert.Just how I see AJs last paragraph:

1.At the end of the day, whatever misdemeanor could be validly charged to Rangers, surely it was a breach of procedure, not “cheating” or financial doping.

Yes AJ,only over 80 “misdemeanors” over a period of 12 years.

2.The eminent members of the Commission must ask themselves – what were the real, not fabricated, consequences of Rangers not registering the information on EBT’s directly with the SPL.

The real consequenses were RFC were illegally playing domestic and european games,to the detriment of Scottish & European Fooltball and by their subterfuge,gaining an unsporting advantage over many seasons.This includes reaching a European final in 2008 where many RFC players who played in this competition were in fact,ineligible.

3. On the contrary, what actions would have been taken by the SPL at the time if all the detail of the EBTS, the total of which was reported annually in public accounts, had been submitted in a timely form. I genuinely suspect that the compliance officer would have reviewed the documents, ticked the important boxes that dealt with the players status and then routinely filed them for posterity.

If everything had been declared correctly,your “genuine suspicions” would probably be correct.Unfortunately for you,RFC didn’t file everything correctly.That’s why we are where we are.

4. The Commission hearing this case must consider the real impact of any default. A verdict that Rangers essentially did not in fact adhere to stipulated procedures, does not warrant capital punishment.

I agree.The commission must consider carefully any impact of their decision.
They can either hand down a sanction suitable for 11 years of illegality,tax evasion,proxy match fixing etc,at home and abroad(if RFC found guilty).
Alternatively,they can just bury their heads in the sand.

Wonder what they’ll do?.
I assume Mr Johnstone as past chairman of RFC(IA) will be someone that BDO will be asking a few questions of!

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bangordubPosted on10:50 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Captain Haddock says:
September 24, 2012 at 22:38

“Very sad, and aso depressing that it’s happening in Scotland, I thought we were a better country than this. We once had a country and folk who contributed to enlightenment, equality, creativity and progress.”

You do. The evidence is on this blog, and others.

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thirdlanarkPosted on10:51 pm - Sep 24, 2012


I have followed RTC and TSFM with great interest over the past months. The quality of many contributors is exceptionally high. Well done to you and the fans of so many clubs. Sporting integrity has been given a chance to come through with Rangers relegation to the lowest tier of the SFL following Craig Whyte’s obscene failure to pay dues to the appropriate bodies for money already received by the club.
It would be good if Rangers supporters could accept this level of punishment willingly for Whyte’s/Rangers misdemeanours, which they have not, but then what would the response be from supporters of some other clubs should the same fate have befallen on them. True we may not have seen the circling of pseudo religious /political wagons as we have done from the supporters of the Ibrox club.
Now we must wait and see the outcome of the dual contract investigation. If they have slipped up on a technicality or by intent you would expect the outcome at least to result in the stripping of titles during the discovered period of the “error”. You only have to look at the response to minor errors re missing signatures which have resulted in teams being expelled from the Scottish Cup in the recent past. These titles cannot be allocated to other clubs because the dynamic of the league or cups would have been different had Rangers not been participating or had points deducted before the end of a season or had they been excluded during the rounds of a cup.
How great could the punishment be if it is adjudged that the dual contract issue was an intentional evasion. Well what has to be borne in mind is the fact that should another club be found guilty of a similar offence in the future and have no titles to their name you would expect that other sanctions have to be adopted ( suspension, fines, expulsion etc.)
However, we all know that Rangers are too big to be allowed to fail, much as they may deserve it if found guilty and as much as individuals may want it. They bring 40% of the paying public in to the game. The SPL/SFL and SFA are all businesses and are set up to look after their members – the clubs.
All the clubs ( that is the boards ) can expect and want is Rangers ( and other clubs ) pounds and as level a playing field as is possible.
For my sins , I am a Third Lanark supporter and am still saddened about the demise of my club and the lack of support for them from Celtic and Rangers at the time of their collapse, so I can imagine the pain that Ranger’s supporters feel at the moment, but I would truly ask them to recognise who did this damage to their club and not allow themselves to be driven by religious/sectarian hatred just because people are gloating at your current plight. Certainly don’t allow someone from Yorkshire to stir up that hatred. Just get on with supporting your club through these tough times. Just as many supporters over the last 2 centuries have had to do with their underperforming clubs. You , unlike me will at least have a club to support in the future which you can hope return to their former glories.
Finally, the MSM. The press have always pursued their own agendas. Mainly in order to sell papers or advertising or to ensure viewers, listeners , readers and sometimes to support those who have done or could do them favours. We should not be surprised that they have continued to peddle certain apparently unsupportable angles. Thank goodness we live in an age where more accurate information can get through from new sources.
Get out there and support your clubs and make the next few seasons something special in Scottish Football.
Well done again to you all for your contributions here.

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justiceintegrityPosted on10:52 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Dear eminent members of the Commission, I am glad to see a distinguished former member of our wonderful club RFC (AJ to his mates) has cleared up the trifling matter of the EBT’s. I respectfully request that you be decommissioned forthwith as I would not like to see such eminent people as yourselves waste anymore time with petty procedural errors.

Yours in Sport

Charles Green
CEO

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BrendaPosted on10:52 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Don’t do twitter ……. Has there been any further tweets from RTC regarding forth-coming events 😉

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tic6709Posted on10:58 pm - Sep 24, 2012


“Rangers” are “Rangers” notwithstanding the legal nuances caused by the application of various bankruptcy laws. The heritage and records of the Club rest with the institution that is “Rangers,” and no amount of self-serving diatribe to the contrary, no matter how relentlessly pursued, can rewrite history.
=========================================

That’s what we have been trying to tell you.!! This man is in business ? Now turn round AJ and tell the bears what you have just told us.

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forestfanPosted on11:05 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Test

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Sugar DaddyPosted on11:07 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Just read AJ’s statement.

Oh dear, oh deary, deary me.

With insight and reasoning of that magnitude AJ will surely be a fixture on SSB soon.

AJ, lawyer up old son and cobble together a better defence than that pitiful dollop of tripe.

You’re gonna need need it.

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paulsatimPosted on11:15 pm - Sep 24, 2012


Brenda says:
September 24, 2012 at 22:52

Me neither! But, you can “follow” tweeters online, https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase . Leave the page open and watch for messages to advise of new tweet, ( a 1, 2,3, etc will appear on tab just before the page name)

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forweonlyknowPosted on11:18 pm - Sep 24, 2012


A reasonable solution?

With regards to The SPL/SFA statement due very shortly.

Will it go along the lines of:

In early May we were aware of a “Prima Facie” case (evidence) with regards to the use of EBT payments to players but more importantly the ‘dual contract’ aspect that went alongside it. We felt, at the time, that acceptance of a level of guilt by newco (who inherited oldco’s membership) and the stripping of titles relating to said period, was a reasonable solution to a very difficult situation. We, however, misjudged Scottish Football fans feelings.

It didn’t take us long to realise that we were poorly advised in this matter. Akin to the paying of a parking fine within a certain time, we felt that it would have been in newco’s (now The Rangers Football Club Ltd) interest, and indeed Scottish Football’s to accept these measures.

We are now in the position where we now have to let an impartial tribunal rule on the use of dual contracts. We will support whatever position the panel arrives at. We will comment further in due course.

Or ….

Let’s just wait till 4:59 ramorra! 😉

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