I have been receiving quite a bit of unflattering mail about the “agenda” being pursued on this blog. Depending on the correspondent, that is defined as either denying people their civil right to gloat, hiding the “truth” that people of the RC faith are welcomed and encouraged to come to Ibrox, or indulging in Chamberlain-style appeasement with the banning of the “H” word and other incontrovertible rights-to-insult.
The objection to moderation of any sort appears to be at the root of these diatribes. Our position here in terms of moderation is clear. There is no “agenda” other than a desire not to be chasing up posts containing the rantings and ravings of partisan types who “demand” their right to be heard no matter how objectionable it might be to those hear it. We are not here to service a conduit for conspiracy theories based in Masonic Lodges or the Vatican. There are plenty of places where people can indulge in that kind of stuff, but the moderators here are just not interested. The administration of the site takes around four hours per day. That’s a long time trawling through posts which often set out deliberately to insult, abuse or otherwise cause offence – mildly or otherwise.
Our view is that the blog will only have cross-club support if we stick to what we can substantiate by fact or reasonably infer from the way things proceed. Further, we feel that if we are to gain credibility as an alternative source of news and comment to the MSM, that we need to cut down on the fansite type comments. There is no dignity (a word often used here) in calling the Rangers manager or their fans names. We need to maintain higher standards of impartiality than football fansites, because we know that a united fan base can actually make a difference as RTC did when the SPL chairmen were gearing up for a parachute for the new Rangers. OT discussions are fine, and often amusing, but they shouldn’t become the main reason to come here.
The requirement to have a WordPress account before posting here is not in any way draconian. It is designed to make people accountable for what they post whilst still maintaining anonymity, and therefore being exempt from moderation. Those who don’t like it are not being compelled to carry out any instruction – they only need go to a place where they don’t feel so constrained.
If the main issue of this blog becomes how the blog is being administered – or how the moderation policy is affecting the human rights of posters, we may as well just pack up now.
There have never been any objections to the suggested posting rules on here. We assume that people who post are reasonably intelligent. Therefore it seems fair to assume that those who have ignored the suggested posting rules did so deliberately. If that doesn’t happen, moderation is just not required.
If what we are trying to do fails because of our posting framework, then we will be blamed. We are certain though, that we can have no credibility if we indulge ourselves in conspiracy theories and constant references to anachronistic organisations, the Scottish school system, and the leanings of referees.
There is real corruption in Scottish football. It is based not on religious rivalries but on greed and acquisitiveness. The only thing that matters is that we identify that corruption and help put an end to it.
Our job is to ask questions and not jump to our own conclusions about the answers. That will divide us as surely as the realisation of the depth of the corruption united us. To be totally united as fans, we need to have more Rangers fans on here. Therefore we need to create an atmosphere that they can be comfortable with. Is that the case right now? The anger for RFC’s mismanagement and abuse of the game in Scotland is real, but we need to look forward if we are truly committed to ensuring that what happened to Rangers can’t happen again.
We’re not gonna throw the toys out of the pram here. If anyone else would like to run the blog under those circumstances of zero moderation, we will be happy to hand over the domain. There is no “agenda” – we will be happy to hand the work over to others.
The initial posting which proposed the change to WordPress logins received over 130 TUs and only three TDs. Subsequently the post advising of the changes got around 100 TUs and 100 TDs. It seems that minds are not entirely made up.
To get some closure on this once and for all, we have added a poll below to end on Saturday at 1700 where you can decide whether you want to go along with our original plan in terms of login and moderation. We obviously recommend that you vote “Yes”
I don’t know about you lot but if I have a statement to make I, eh, just make it.
Professionally the only reason for me to announce I’m gonna make one in the future is;
a. to drum up advance publicity because I’ve got something to sell. Or
b. to enable me to arrange a getaway car.
Is it just me?
I wouldn’t get too upset by AJ’s comments. He knows that a lifetime ban from Scottish football as well a lenghty director’s ban are both in his future. He is simply getting his excuses in first.
Green is simply protecting his IPO, and seems willing to accept some major long term risks in the process.
On the EBTs, in a strictly footballing sense, whether the EBTs were correctly managed or not is a red herring. (You can pay footballers with used fivers from your local dope dealer as long as you declare the payments to the SFA, the Police et al would have a problem but that’s a seperate issue.). The issue is whether all the contractural payments were properly registered with the SFA. I think we will find that soemething along the following lines happened:
An agent or player wanted comfort over the ebt payments, hence the side letters
Someone decided not to register them with the SFA as this would be a red flag for HMRC.
The key question is whether synpathetic personages at the SFA/SPL knew and turned a blind eye.
An inquiry into the role of the SFA and SPL is now all but assured, the plea bargin offer should be read as a desperate attempt to forestall such an inquiry. This particular clattering train still has a ways to go before it hits the buffers, but death has a firm grip on the deadman switch.
Distraction and obfuscations as per
– A proper `Dupefest`
[Claiming copyright 😉 ]
Wish I’d read Paul McConville’s latest blog before my previous post!
Charles Green’s Latest Rangers Statement – 18 Paragraphs, Wrong in 17!
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/charles-greens-latest-rangers-statement-18-paragraphs-wrong-in-17/comment-page-1/#comment-19265
Has all the Celtic fans stayed at home to watch Deeks funeral tonight
doontheslope says:
September 25, 2012 at 15:34
Would Campbell Ogilvie/SDM, being the world’s best etc.. etc.., have kept a note of how much Rangers would have to pay HMRC were the EBT (can we now call it a ‘scam’?), to go t1ts up? Wouldn’t they have counted it up, year by year, probably month by month?
Wouldn’t they have known all along just EXACTLY how much they would be liable for?
I wonder if there are any documents/emails recording the ‘possible’ debt to HMRC, as that debt grew. That would be pretty nuclear.
————————————-
That would be tantamount to keeping a second set of books. A most heinous tax offence.
Rangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
Green’s illogical & flawed outbursts are designed to both please and confuse Deadco fans at the same time.
Rangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
Green’s criticisms of SFA & SPL are like Frankenstein’s monster turning on its creator. (This works on several levels!)
bangordub says:
September 25, 2012 at 21:23
I don’t know about you lot but if I have a statement to make I, eh, just make it.
——
Aye, well – I saw you, eh, hesitating there.
🙂
Good point about the getaway car, though!
bangordub says:
September 25, 2012 at 21:23
I don’t know about you lot but if I have a statement to make I, eh, just make it.
==========
I’m guessing that the SFA’s lawyers need to have a good close look at this before publication. I just wonder what it’s about. Ogilvie resigning? Regan resigning? A response to Green’s statement? Armageddon? Reconstruction? All of the above? I can hardly wait.
steveplustax says:
September 25, 2012 at 19:20
Rate This
I know he’s not peddling his nonsense on Internet message-boards etc., but -at this point would it not be reasonable to describe Mr. Charles as a “troll”?
—————————————-
I’m showing my age here stevenplustax but you post reminded me of the old children’s song you heard on radio on a Saturday morning in the 1950’s when the bad Troll fol-de-rol said said to Big Billy Goat Gruff; “I’m a Troll fol-de-rol’ Troll fol-de-rol, I’m a Troll fol-de-rol and I’ll eat you up for supper.
Looks as though the Troll has come to life and he’s having his Billy Goat supper. I’ll get my coat.
angus1983 says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:22
:-0
test
midcalderan @ 22:31
Someone else who remembers Uncle Mac 🙂
twopanda says:
September 25, 2012 at 21:34
Distraction and obfuscations as per
– A proper `Dupefest`
[Claiming copyright ]
========================================================================
Twopandas…copyright hereby granted…!
scapaflow14 says:
September 25, 2012 at 21:25
I wouldn’t get too upset by AJ’s comments. He knows that a lifetime ban from Scottish football as well a lenghty director’s ban are both in his future. He is simply getting his excuses in first.
==================================================================
Scapa…his comments in themselves do not really worry me.
His PR outbursts, orchestrated by “Sch you know who”…aka Jack Irvine…simply upset me from my view that as a prominent director of a PLC, who in 2008 received a demand from HMRC, amounting to approx. £36m, ignored it, hoping it would simply go away.
Adding insult to the proverbial injury, he presided over the same PLC as it embarked upon its final rush into the financial maelstrom that we now recognise as RFC(IA).
This guy knows he has too many awkward questions to answer when, ultimately, the smelly stuff hits the ventilating machine.
…and so we go on….!
PS I do not think he will ever take up residence in this wee country again…wanna know why?
midcalderan says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:31
I had better make a cup of cocoa & get into my geriatric kip, before you start reminiscing about Tammy Troot or the McFlannels.
:¬))))
Slightly off topic here but the 15/8 available on Motherwell for tomorrow’s cup game against little old Sevco seems like a bank job to me.
Although McCall may want to go easy against his future employers(I reckon he’ll replace Sally at some point)
campsiejoe says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:36
Midcalderan @ 22:31
Someone else who remembers Uncle Mac
————————————————————————————–
Give me Sparky’s Magic Piano anyday.
campsiejoe says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:36
midcalderan @ 22:31
Someone else who remembers Uncle Mac
Kilbowiekelt says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:59
midcalderan says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:31
I had better make a cup of cocoa & get into my geriatric kip, before you start reminiscing about Tammy Troot or the McFlannels.
:¬))))
————————————————————-
Ahh, The McFlannels & Uncle Mac. There’s a lesson to be learned from this children’s song.
If the RFC supporters had been vigilant and got their act together, then, when …. “The Troll leapt onto the bridge and started gnashing his teeth but the big Billy Goat Gruff stamped his hooves, then lowered his horns, and charged! Tossing the Troll high in the air. Up, up, up he went, then down, down, down he fell – SPLASH! – Into the middle of the deep fast flowing river and was never seen no more.”
Hope I’ve not lowered the tone of today’s excellent debate!
kilbowiekelt says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:59
1
0
Rate This
midcalderan says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:31
I had better make a cup of cocoa & get into my geriatric kip, before you start reminiscing about Tammy Troot or the McFlannels.
=======================================================================
…Tammy Troot…with Lavinia Derwent…..!
….ahm aff tae ma scratchir as well…nite nite…!
…ps just don’t mention the “tattie bogle”…!
essexbeancounter says:
September 25, 2012 at 22:48
said
PS I do not think he will ever take up residence in this wee country again…wanna know why?
Collar and felt springs to mind…………
Just asked Gerry McCulloch on twitter there, in his insistence that reporters are there to report not question or comment … “Is it not more of story to report Rangers* CEO telling wee lies?”
His reply: “if that’s true then quite possibly. Doubt he would ever speak to that paper again though!”
That’s worrying.
RM contributor’s comment on CG
“If i was married i’d divorce the bitch on the grounds of my undying love for Chuckles Green
Guys the owner we always wanted and deserved”
And this was about the only one without spelling mistakes!!
A good pice by Mr Spiers in the The Herald
“Spiers on Sport: Green and Murray should both testify at SPL probe
Nimmo Smith has been widely quoted in the past few days, but one plea he made that has virtually gone unnoticed was that anyone associated with Oldco or Newco Rangers, who believe they have a plea of mitigation to make about the club, should come forward and speak to the commission.
What are Rangers so scared of? Why did the club obfuscate in passing on relevant documentation? What is there to hide?
If Rangers are innocent of an alleged dual-contracts scam – and they may well be – then why does the club not step forward and argue its case?
At one stage, with a week to go before the commission’s preliminary hearing of September 11, Green and Newco Rangers were prepared to go and talk to Nimmo Smith. But, with a day to go, they swiftly changed their mind.
To quote Nimmo Smith verbatim from his preparatory notes on the Rangers hearings to be held in November: “Oldco and Rangers FC will continue to have the right to appear and be represented at the hearings and make submissions as they see fit.”
A few pages further on in his notes, and applying his desire to have all evidence and all voices considered in this saga, Nimmo Smith adds: “We [hope] that Oldco, Newco and any other person claiming an interest and wishing to appear will give intimation to that effect. We wish to emphasise that the doors remain open to Oldco and Newco to appear and be represented…”
Never mind Charles Green’s antics, what about Sir David Murray? Given Nimmo Smith and his commission’s desire to establish clear blue water between itself and the SPL, what can possibly stop Murray from coming forward to give his side of the story?
Nimmo Smith chose his words carefully in terms of testimony about EBTs: “…any other person claiming an interest…”
In this Rangers saga, I can think of no viable person who suits those words more than Murray, the man who set the Ibrox club on the fateful course of EBTs in the first place.
Murray avows that Rangers are innocent. He claims this is a stitch-up by people – whoever the heck they might be – to damage Rangers. Murray says the EBTs, the famed “legal loophole” to paying taxes, were used properly and legitimately.
I severely doubt Murray’s interpretation on this but, more than that, I want him to be given his chance to come before the commission to protest his and Rangers’ innocence.
Can someone provide a single valid reason why Murray would not to come before – or present evidence to – Nimmo Smith?
The SPL and SFA have been flawed in their handling of the Rangers case – everyone can see it. But the SPL is trying to make up for that by ensuring that its claim that Rangers FC warrants an investigation will be a claim carried out with the utmost impartiality and clarity.
You have to be a conspiracy theorist of fantasist proportions to somehow believe that Nimmo Smith and his two QCs, Nicholas Stewart and Charles Flint, are “agenda-driven” or “biased” in any way. This commission will once and for all cut through the cant and farrago of this case and reach a judgement on all its available evidence.
Nimmo Smith, Stewart and Flint, apart from their renown in judicial matters, appear to have impeccable credentials. This is a costly exercise for the SPL, but it is worth it. Personally, I will very happily embrace this commission’s guilty or innocent verdict on Rangers, for those very reasons.
In the EBTs/dual contracts controversy, Rangers face two imminent announcements: the tribunal on the so-called “big tax case” and then the Nimmo Smith hearing. The two are subtly linked: one is about EBTs and alleged tax evasion, the other is about player contracts and disclosure.
This story, with its claim and counter-claim, is more complex than anyone could imagine. Rangers could win one case and lose the other, or win or lose both.
My own hunch, given what I’ve been told, is that Rangers have been in the wrong. But far more able scrutineers than me might find otherwise.
Why Rangers FC, Green or Murray would not want to go before Nimmo Smith and present their case, remains baffling.
“
Jean7brodie
Trfc fans should think this guy is saying and doing all the right things, how does this normally pan out for us.
Its hard to have sympathy for such an easily manipulated mob.
G Spiers’ article is a welcome change in his apparent ability to have a hunch that RFC might have been in the wrong. Haud me back from rushing to welcome him to the fold though. He seems to squirm between positions quite a bit. However, a welcome change none the less.
To offer an answer to his question of why Murray et al wouldn’t want to attend, I’d speculate that anyone so in the wrong would be keeching themselves trying to justify their shananigans to these three judges.. Now if I could work that one out, why can’t GS? Or the other msm? Or ra bearz?
Captain Haddock says:
September 25, 2012 at 23:53
I think young Master Spiers was going for irony. I’m sure it will be lost on the Ibrox faithfull, I await the tsunami of apoplexy……
I suspect the imminent Statement is a last gasp corrupt attempt to invent a reason why LNS and his Tribunal should be cancelled This would avoid SFA officials being cross examined on their role in illegal registrations
The Statement may be dressed as a pretend toughie possibly an imposed arbitrary stripping of some titles conditional on being found guilty of tax avoidance by the FTT
If so it will fool nobody and may possibly be the catalyst for the legal profession walking away from the role they accepted under the McCliesh proposals
goosygoosy says:
September 26, 2012 at 00:42
Goosey, the only titles, (someone correct me if I’m wrong), the SFA can strip would be cup titles.
League titles are a matter purely for the SPL. The SFA have few if any cards left to play, this thing will now play out as directed by Nimmo Smith and the FTT, everyone else, including Green, is slowly being reduce to the status of bit players.
johnboy5088 says:
September 25, 2012 at 20:12
36 1 Rate This
Sevco did not “own” Rangers FC until the SFA agreed to transfer RFC’s membership to them — with conditions attached after much discussion.
Green knows this. But he thinks most Rangers fans are idiots.
One glance at any of their online forums would confirm he might just be right.
==========================
Actually, (and my apologies for being a pedant) Sevco purchased the Rangers FC brand (along with the SPL & SFA memberships and the other assets) within days of the CVA rejection – around 15th June, I think.
The agreement to transfer RFC’s SFA membership to Sevco was much later – 3rd August.
The SFA’s agreement, in practical terms, did two things:
1. It rubber-stamped Sevco’s entry into the SFL as an association football club.
2. It allowed Sevco to use the (previously purchased) Rangers FC brand name.
That is all.
This got me thinking…
At Boghead, on 28th April 1967, Third Lanark Athletic Club were beaten 5-1 by Dumbarton. It was the club’s last ever game. The club, formed in 1872 and incorporated in 1903, was liquidated in June 1967.
On 1st March 2007 the brand name “Third Lanark Athletic Club” was registered at the UK’s Intellectual Property Office. A quick check at Companies House shows that a new company, Third Lanark Athletic Club Limited, was incorporated on 3rd August 2010.
A new club, currently play at amateur level (but fairly ambitious in their outlook) called Third Lanark Athletic Club was formed in 2007.
http://third-lanark.co.uk/default.html
Within their website they list the history & achievements of the old club as if they were its own. It is obviously nonsense to suggest that this amateur side is the same club that was liquidated in 1967. But, on the other hand, they do appear to own the brand name of that previous entity.
How likely is it, do you think, that when the new club appy for membership of the SFA, someone will be sent to search through the archives, so that they can be given the same membership number as the previous incarnation?
After all, they own the brand; they claim the history; they even want to set up home at the old club’s stadium.
So will they have the previous club’s SFA membership reinstated and transferred?
No?
No, I don’t think so either.
I think Charles may have backed himself into a corner by his comments – the first thing you read after his statement is well why don’t you sue the SFA/SPL for loss of earnings if by their actions they have wronged you and cost you money. His Bears who think he is right (and I think like Night Terror he has Chris Graham for a speech writer nowadays) will be wanting the next move to do this.
However he cannot and won’t because he will lose. It wil show the emperor without any clothes.
It is all ND and SR’s fault – they should never have agreed to transfer the SFA membership over.
They had better find a way to silence the beast they have unleashed because I am not prepared as a Scottish fotball fan to tolerate this nonsense much more.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/mccall-tells-players-to-ignore-siege-mentality-atmosphere-1-2546063
I wonder if we are about to see resignations from the SFA or a robust defence of their position?
I would hope they are getting their ducks in a row ready to swat Greens constant double speak.
I fear it may be somewhat less robust than that.
No posts this morning?
It’s all about the timing. Is Green playing a blinder here with the we’re rangers we’re not rangers double speak guff. He needs to muddy the waters enough to keep the verdict far enough away to get his zealous followers to splash the cash on shares in what they believe to be the old rangers history and all.
If he can snatch their cash before the verdict, he can then deny all liability in a guilty verdict by playing the old we’re not the old rangers we’re an entirely new club card. He can then tell the fans that he dumped their history and trophies in order to protect their investment and keep the club going.
Can he get his timing right?
Just for info, regarding the Third Lanark post, they (TL) reincarnated under Teddy Taylor ( former Tory MP for Cathcart) in the late 1970 early 1980s, playing in the Dubartonshire U21 Juvenile league. I don’t know what became of that team, but I think the only had one season in that league.
There’s not much more to say until the SFA statement or the next release from Green. I don’t know if Chris Graham is writing his stuff, it comes across as very reminiscent of Lewis Carroll!
Trouble is when, not if, reality catches up with them, the reaction from the Ibrox faithfull when they realise they have been led down the primrose path again, will be a sight to see, (from a very safe distance, of course.)
I agree.
If not the SFA causing delay, one would almost have thought there was a BRTH epistle about to hit the silicon newsstands…
:whistle:
Or was I imagining things…?
No worries peeps ! Jabba has it all worked out.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/league-reconstruction-is-back-on-the-agenda-of-scottish-1343608
….and no, it’s not about Rangers…..
wolvibhoy, Exactly right,
scapaflow14, Nice one,The difference being that I understood Lewis Carroll.(mostly)
In case people missed it
monster_mind says:
September 25, 2012 at 21:37
Wish I’d read Paul McConville’s latest blog before my previous post!
Charles Green’s Latest Rangers Statement – 18 Paragraphs, Wrong in 17!
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/charles-greens-latest-rangers-statement-18-paragraphs-wrong-in-17/comment-page-1/#comment-19265
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can’t help wonder if Mr Charles is cranking up his strategy to leave Dodge City.
Have we not seen this all before?
-Stir up the support to get the season ticket money in.
-Talk up investment plans.
-Tell everyone about grandeous plans of worldwide branding in Asia US etc,etc.
-Tell your fans that 99% of what everybody else is saying is crap.
-Get Rangers Legend Ally to say that you are wonderful and have a great working relationship, both fighting for the same thing etc etc
-Threaten legal action against the footballing authorities, the BBC etc but fail to do anything.
-Get yourself a lifetime ban from Scottish Football
-Plead innocence with your fans that you have done your best and the plan would have succeded ‘if it wasn’t for those pesky kids’.
-Take a cut from somewhere to cover the cost of all efforts and a wee bit more.
-Head of into the sunset leaving a trail of devistation behind you as you move on to yet another group of mugs willing to put up with your BS.
jean7brodie says:
September 25, 2012 at 23:20
RM contributor’s comment on CG
“If i was married i’d divorce the bitch on the grounds of my undying love for Chuckles Green
Guys the owner we always wanted and deserved”
=============================
Thing is, that’s probably about right. It has become clear he is playing the owner they wanted, and they really do deserve him.
To be fair it was right about Craig Whyte as well, they both wanted and deserved him as well. We saw how that ended up for them.
HirsutePursuit says:
September 26, 2012 at 01:55
Hirsute – if Third Lanark were to apply and join one of the Senior League’s ie South of Scotland or East of Scotland etc is there any reason why if they asked they couldn’t or shouldn’t be given the former Third Lanark SFA membership which I presume has been left dormant for 45 years? Also why can’t they transfer the history and former assets into a new Third Lanark Football Club?
Surely if we want fair and equal treatment for all then a precendent has already been set this summer?
Third Lanark, Gretna and Airdrie should ALL be asking for and GETTING their former SFA memberships.
In view of what has happened and using the Rangers example as detailed by Lord Nimmo Smith I cannot see any good reason logically why they don’t have equal claim and entitlement to their old membership back?
I wonder how Green managed to shut Bomber Broon up. A man who had so much to say (and you could understand at least 10% of it) reduced to silence overnight. I’ve not noticed an obituary- maybe something’s stuck in his craw? If so, Green put it there. Green seems to have reduced a few others to silence too. Plus he’s acquired the ability to walk on water, according to the towering intellects on FF.
What a transformation in 3 months, from public enemy number one to saintly saviour who can do no wrong! Whatever we might say about Charlie, he’s certainly got something. Chutzpah, I think it’s called. I fancied him for a visit from the lynch mob at one point. Now I can see the bears raiding the teapots and biscuit tins on their grannies’ mantles for more cash to plough into Green’s company. What a hoot! I can’t wait for the bears’ reaction when Green “does walking away”, with all their cash in his pockets, leaving another train wreck behind.
I think Spiers’ piece is reasonably well balanced, myself. It doesn’t point and jeer, but asks pertinent questions. A much better example of journalism than many we’ve been exposed to recently.
Journalists should be thinking to themselves that one of them could come out of this as a real investigative star. There is an opportunity for them to really make a name for themselves here. Alex Thomson has made a decent stab at it, but is unfortunate in that he’s not appearing in print, which is the traditional medium for journalistic stardom.
All the information, on both sides of the story, is available on the tinternet. All they have to do is cobble it together, write a balanced series of pieces and think about it a little bit.
Too much journalism nowadays is lazy, based on press releases and statements, and lacking the input of a sharp mind. Now is the time for one of them to step forward, drop the Lunchtime O’ Booze attitude and get their teeth into this scandal (and I include the SFA, SPL, various RFCs and possibly SPL clubs in that) – without fear or favour!
neepheid says:
September 26, 2012 at 09:43
Bomber Brown claiming in an article to Hugh Keevins the folowing. “Meanwhile Bomber continues to maintain there are skeletons in the cupboard that need to come out for the club to start with a clean sheet.”
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/johns-fishy-story-1280399
neepheid says:
September 26, 2012 at 09:43
Bomber is booked in as a guest on Off the Ball on Saturday so I for one am hoping that Sir Stuart of Cosgrove will manage to extract a wee bit of info from him.
neepheid says:
September 26, 2012 at 09:43
1 0 i Rate This
I wonder how Green managed to shut Bomber Broon up. A man who had so much to say (and you could understand at least 10% of it) reduced to silence overnight. I’ve not noticed an obituary- maybe something’s stuck in his craw?
================================================
Bomber scheduled to be on radio with Cowan and Cosgrove this weekend? Maybe a chance to clear that craw blockage.
PS
If they get knocked out the cup by Well tonight my guess is that Bomber may be more than willing to dish some dirt.
So Mr Green is suggesting that a Club can run up huge, unpayable debts in pursuit of glory, go in to Administration, offer a CVA that fails, then sell the assets to someone else for a song, leave all the debts behind and there’s nothing the SFA, SPL or SFL can do about it? The purchaser of (certain) assets should be allowed to remain in the same League, history intact, with creditors stuffed? Furthermore if there’s ‘prize-money’ due, or ‘appearance money’ for players this is simply handed to the new owner (of certain assets), not the creditors?
Regarding Bomber: My hunch with Bomber was that he was on to something, the ‘show us the Deeds’ part of the Carlsberg address, on the steps of the Big Hoose. Certain people, more learned than he then explained that he may, in fact, be right, but the implications were, to coin a phrase, ‘nuclear’ if he’d persisted and brought down Green at that time. There were simply too many things to do in order to get The Rangers playing by August and Mr Charles had occupied the box-seat and would have to continue, for the time-being.
I think Bomber’s been advised to keep his counsel for now, to cease and desist, and that the nuclear information related to the Big Hoose and ‘certain assets’, and of course Ticketus, is best left for another day; the day when Green attempts to con the fanbase out of their hard earned.
Bomber’s a Rangers man. He saw Green for what he is, a con-man out to get rich, selling paper certificates. Better to be quiet now and wait than cause a stramash and create chaos that would have left his Club with no-where to play.
Does anyone think Bomber was persuaded that Green’s a good guy and this will all end happily?
Great statement frmo Chuckles – well played. He might have many of the actual facts wrong, but the point is a good one.
Are they OLDCO or are they NEWCO
lets clear it up once and for all and stick to it
If they are OLDCO (which they are not)
1. You have a hefty bill to pay to Hector and other creditors – £134M should cover it
2. You have failed to provide audited accounts last year and will do so again this year – so should face some punishment for that
3. you have 54 titles and 140 years of history – and ALL that goes with that 😉 (such as the ongoing investigation)
4. You are entitled to monies from UEFA and the SPL – but also for all footballing debts as well
If they are NEWCO (which they are)
1. You shouldn’t even be in div3 as you failed to meet the requirements for entry – however, rules were bent to allow you in and part of that was your agreement to pay footballing debts of oldco
2. You have NO HISTORY at all – so no one can take it from you 🙂
3. You are not owed monies from UEFA/SPL/SFA or for teh transfer of oldco palyers like Jelavic
4. Oldco will still be investigated for EBT and non disclosed payments to players.
i’m sure i’ve missed loads more things – but that is your choices.
Try selling the newco option to your supporters – buying shares in a holding company that has no history and when it goes bust won’t be rangers?
Morning all,
Strong words from our little Yorkshire Pudding.Asking the SFA/SPL to decide if RFC are oldco or newco,whilst happily jumping from one to t’other when it suits himself.
Criticising the Independent Commission whilst accepting the honesty of same,etc,
All double-talk.Divide and conquer,
A blatant attempt to keep his fans onside(like the so-called Adidas,Dallas deals).Has he ever actually delivered anything he’s promised.
20 investors
£30m in the bank by July
No debt
9 Newcastle players on loan
5 players from the Euros
Adidas
Dallas Cowboys
The list goes on.
With the FTT iminent,the dual contract investigation soon.Lorde Hodge must be on the horizon(whatever happened to the IPA investigation),BDO,CG knows he must act quickly.
How he thinks he’s going to sell shares with all this agro coming up is beyond me.I assume he’ll have to mention all this in his prospectus.Would he be breaking the law if he didn’t?.
Desperate actions from a desperate man.
Humble Pie says:
September 26, 2012 at 09:17
6 0 i Rate This
No worries peeps ! Jabba has it all worked out.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/league-reconstruction-is-back-on-the-agenda-of-scottish-1343608
….and no, it’s not about Rangers…..
______________________________________________
I started to read his article, but gave up very quickly when I realised he was merely writing out his wish list. A quick scan showed no quotation marks and, as far as I could see, he gives no indication of his ‘source’ or any indication of why this ‘most important issue facing Scottish football’ is being discussed today (if I have missed anything and there is some genuine knowledge in his article, I appologise). Now I’m not saying reconstruction is not being discussed today, nor that it is not top of the agenda, as, like Jabba, I have no inside knowledge of what’s going on inside Hampden, but it would be incredibly stupid (though not unlikely, I suppose) for any serious discussions to get underway, about anything to do with the future of Scottish football, until the future of the ‘biggest club in the country’ has been decided. I’d be very surprised if any attempts at pushing for league reconstruction at this time were not met with ‘let’s wait awhile’.
I’m fortunate enough not to have read the Daily Record for many years, so can someone please let me know just how often Jabba has cited league reconstruction as ‘the most important issue facing Scottish football’ before he was ever forced to acknowledge that RFC are in severe trouble? I’d expect he has not shown such concern for the whole of Scottish football as often as he’s pushed the line that (what used to be) the Old Firm should be allowed to migrate to the English Premiership, and that these ‘two great clubs’ should not be held back by the minnows who form the Scottish League, the league that is now more important that the survival of 50% of the (what used to be) Old Firm.
Two paragraphs show just how ridiculous his article is:
‘The heads of the three governing bodies, SFA, SPL and SFL, will meet today and open fresh talks on a massive problem which threatens to bring down the entire game.
And no we’re not talking about Rangers.’
Is he suggesting that the game will come crashing down without reconstruction? Does he think that the game, if it is in such a mess, can be saved by reconstruction? That’s a bit like saying, “the baw’s bust, let’s pump some more air into it”. Reconstruction could, at best, improve Scottish football, but if the game is in such dire straights that it would die in it’s current system, then reconstruction is certainly not going to save it.
Does he honestly believe that the football public of Scotland consider him such a voice of knowledge and reason that they’d be in any way deflected by this latest attempt to sell us a dummy? His article might have carried some credence if he’d managed to write it without making reference to the Rangers’ debacle, even though he tried to make it look like he was avoiding it!
Oh my god, speechless………
http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=285:leadership
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 26, 2012 at 10:54
Spot on – despite all the bluster this is the point that no-one has so far had the guts to define.
SPL/SFA/SFL bottled it and allowed the hybrid to exist – this suits Charles Green as he can pretend to be whichever one suits at any given time.
The fans maintain they are still oldco – the bampots maintain they are newco.
I have a funny feeling LNS et al will cause this to be clarified once and for all.
Is it 48 hours yet 😉
allyjambo says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:10
Sorry to have subjected you to his drivel. Jabba is naught but a blustering blowhard who sways with his own wind. Apparently the SFL are now the rightful heirs to Scottish football’s crown. Oh, and no, it’s not about Rangers…..honest!
“TSFM – We read the Daily Record, so you don’t have to”
Thank you Scapa! For the first time ever I was tempted to go an look at a Rangers’ fans website. I will now have to go and have a shower, metaphorically speaking of course.
scapaflow14 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:10
Oh my god, speechless………
——–
Empty, empty rhetoric.
“It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.”
scapaflow14 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:10
—
OMG!!
Last week Mr Charles was telling us he didn’t want to atttend the LNS commission because his club was never a member of the SPL and that Mickey Mouse organisation.
Now he is telling us his club was a member all along and still is therefore must surely be obliged to participate or face further sanctions!!
While I am sure the SPL/SFA and LNS can answer for themselves can some journalist just not ask Mr Charles which one it is in his opinion and then ask him to stick with that argument for slightly longer than a nano-second.
MSM once again not asking the key players in this saga hard questions but merely reporting guff.
scapaflow14 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:10
__________
It is the same rhetoric as the e-petition. Implication being that the situation Rangers (sic) find themselves in, has got something to do with religion and politics. Not corporate greed, tax evasion or fiscal skullduggery…. but religion and politics.
scapaflow14 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:10
And here is me thinking it was supposed to be about 22 blokes kicking a ball around a patch of grass and playing by sporting rules for the entertanment of those who choose to go along and watch.
FFS no wonder people are happy to let their kids get involved in other sports.
scapaflow14 says:
There’s not much more to say until the SFA statement or the next release from Green. I don’t know if Chris Graham is writing his stuff, it comes across as very reminiscent of Lewis Carroll!
————————————————–
I was just thinking it was rather reminiscent of the White Knight.
“The name of the club is called Rangers FC.”
“Is that what it’s called?”
“No, no. That is what the name is called. The club is called The Rangers Football Club Ltd.”
“Oh I see. So the club is The Rangers Football Club Ltd then?”
“No, no, no. That is just what it is called. In fact, it is Rangers FC.”
angus1983 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:28
Sadly, it’s not just rhetoric, they really believe it. The reaction from the faithful when Whyte crashed was bad enough. It will require a logarithmic scale to measure the difference in their reaction when Green comes a tumbling down. With Whyte the impact was somewhat attenuated by the internal questioning of his regime. There is no real internal questioning of Green, meaning that the reaction is going to be much more visceral, particularly if many of them have parted with cash they can ill afford.
They will need someone to blame, and looking in the mirror for that someone, is not in their make up. This is not going to end well, the only real option is to end it quickly. LNS and the FTT have to get their skates on.
Brenda says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:22
Is it 48 hours yet 😉
———————————————————————————————————————-
The SFA/SPL will still be arguing over the content of their statement.
It’ll probabably be an exercise in damage limitation.
“It wisnae oor fault” will be the gist.
If it’s good news for Green,it’ll be announced before end of business,I’d guess.
If it’s bad news,then kick-off time tonight would be my bet.
Then again,I wouldn’t be surprised if no statement is forthcoming.
exiledcelt says:
September 26, 2012 at 02:17
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It won’t stop him making the threat to sue….as he did with players who did not Tupe across…
Any players due in court any time soon?
Fresh statement from our Chuck:
I, Charles, Winston, Elizabeth, Boadicea, Lime being the owner of the glorious Rangers Football Club (notwithstanding the rights of the other owners to whom I have often referred but I decline to name) hereby declare that I am entitled to have an opinion no matter how bizarre that opinion may appear.
I also declare that I have the right to change/vary/alter that opinion in the light of any challenge that is put to me in respect of my aforesaid opinion. Any changes of opinion should not necessarily be taken as an indication that my position has changed but should merely reflect my over-riding right(s) (enshrined in the WATP Act of 1912 as subsequently amended by any event which may or may not have a bearing on the Act) to hold such opinions as may be necessary for the purpose of fleecing innocent, sometimes law abiding and overwhelmingly gullible, patrons of my (and others who shall remain nameless) club.
No other opinions shall be allowed other than those which are supportive of the position that I have adopted other than those that are in accordance with the above Act.
All future communications on this subject will be in the form of a shares prospectus which should be signed and returned immediately along with your cheque(s).
Can anyone confirm the requirements for a share floatation
is it possible for a company with NO audited accounts to float on any market? Surely there would need to be something confirming a balance sheet/assets/income/outgoings at that point – and not just the scribbles of a madman at the madam.
but, ok, lets assume there isn’t a requirement to have them, does there need to be someone underwriting the share issue? i seem to recall that Murray underwrote the last RFC share issue where he attempted to raise in excess of £50M, he raised just over £1m from investors and had to shuffle the paperwork around to load the debt onto his MIH company.
Will someone have to underwrite this debt.
paulmac2 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:54
exiledcelt says:
September 26, 2012 at 02:17
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It won’t stop him making the threat to sue….as he did with players who did not Tupe across…
Any players due in court any time soon?
_________________________________________________________________________
No,
But maybe a few past directors,managers etc.
Once again I admit that I’m not legally minded but I usually know when I’m right or wrong.
I assume CG does too.Therefore,I think that CG hasn’t actually taken anyone to court since the Transfer Embargo fiasco because,as a condition of entry to the SFL he had to agree to pay the court costs.
I don’t think he can afford to pay for all the legal representation he says he’s going to need.
I think he knows he’s screwed wrt LNS and decided that it’s not worth paying Lawyers.He can’t say that to the people he’s trying to screw so tell them it’s a conspiracy.They love all that.
Talk of mega deals,rising from the dead,etc,when in reality,you’re skint.Classic scamming tactics.Coupled with folk who really want to believe,you’re on a winner.
All about timing though.CG has to get out before the slurry hits the air conditioning,and that could be quite soon!.
Further to Chuckles Greens statement last night on “who are we,I demand to know who we are”
I hope he pursues the SFL and the Scottish communities cup and demands to know why they were not seeded in the draw for previous rounds – and if they will be seeded in the next round should they make it through tonight
If they are the same club, they should have been in the seeded half of the draw as they were in the SPL last year. The draw has been handled incorrectly and all fixtures should be null and void. Falkirk are out of the cup because of this error and should be entitled to compensation for the error. Also, Rangers should not be facing an SPL team at this stage in the draw.
Why isn’t he rattling the SFL’s cages on this matter? the SFL clearly state on their website that rangers were founded in 1872 and i have received an email from them stating that they are a continuation of the old club based on the SFA granting a transfer of the membership from rangers PLC to Sevco Scotland
So they can’t have it both ways
the SFA, SPL and SFL are guilty of not applying the rules from day 1 of this saga – they should be called to account for this and there should be an immediate judicial review/public inquiry. They are not fit to govern the game in this country
Perhaps the SFA statement will put a stop to all the fudgery to date by completely cancelling the rest of the season.
And the last bit will say: “We told you it’d be Armageddon, didn’t we?”
scapaflow14 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:50
angus1983 says:
September 26, 2012 at 11:28
Sadly, it’s not just rhetoric, they really believe it. The reaction from the faithful when Whyte crashed was bad enough. It will require a logarithmic scale to measure the difference in their reaction when Green comes a tumbling down. With Whyte the impact was somewhat attenuated by the internal questioning of his regime. There is no real internal questioning of Green, meaning that the reaction is going to be much more visceral, particularly if many of them have parted with cash they can ill afford.
They will need someone to blame, and looking in the mirror for that someone, is not in their make up. This is not going to end well, the only real option is to end it quickly. LNS and the FTT have to get their skates on.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This got me thinking of the similarities between RFC(IA) and Barcelona!
Maybe a bad analogy but bear with me.
A couple of years ago I toured the Nou Camp.One of the first things that struck me was the emphasis Barca put on the fact that they are Catalan,and the club is the biggest symbol of the Catalan nation there is.They are more than a football team,they are a symbol of catalan nationalism.
RFC(IA) are the scottish version of Barca,to their fans.they are not just a football club,they are the biggest symbol of what their fans aspire to.Not just football but political and religious supremacy.If RFC(IA) go down,to their fans,it’s more than the club that goes,it’s their standard bearer.
That may be too much for some fans to take.
(I know there are many fine RFC fans out there.Generally speaking though,I’d say i’m right).
I spoke to a Sevcovian the other day and I asked him, So what do you think of Charles
Green then? he answered, and I quote “Charles Green is our Fergus McCann”.
Well I almost fell over. .
They really are falling for this, hook line and stinker