Football is indeed a funny old game.
In a year of pandemic misery our national sport has lifted the spirits of a tired and cynical nation.
Dominic Cummings is leaving number 10, the Brexit deal hasn’t been done, lockdown is on the horizon in the West of Scotland, etc. BUT all we want to do is talk about and relive our team finally doing the business.
For once lady luck came down on our side.
If we been the team to miss our last penalty and had the Serbians scored then Serbian Football would be £10million plus better off and it would be their team heading for Hampden and Wembley.
We’d still be in the doldrums and a Pandemic-accelerated financial basket case.
Scotland is now in their first finals since France 1998 and the nation is smiling and talking positively.
There is no doubt that Steve Clarke’s influence has been huge and we all owe him a real debt especially the bean counters at Hampden who must have been hiding behind their settees hiding their eyes through extra time and into the shoot-out.
Scotland is playing more like a club team with a binding spirit rather than a group of individuals who have just met, are there for the match fee and want to stay in their previous cliques.
The dark side is never far away though.
Overconfidence is always an issue when Scotland wins a few games.
Journalists are now filling pages talking about our 9 game unbeaten run and digging up statistics from the past about what 10 in a row would mean.
The fact that since we got humped 4-0 by Russia we’ve been playing second and third level teams rather than the big boys is somehow never mentioned as a counterbalance.
That we have qualified after 2 penalty shoot outs with a statistically unlikely 10 out of 10 consecutive strikes is put down to practicing penalty taking better than Israel and Serbia.
The two games in the next 4 days might extend our run or not – it doesn’t really matter.
We have the big prize for now and qualified against the odds.
Records will show the much higher ranked Norway and Serbia teams will be at home.
Ok we’ll be at home too but playing at Hampden and Wembalee.
Scottish Football on the park has rediscovered and is redefining teamwork.
Nothing else in our game or set up has changed
(That is a discussion for many another day though).
The success of our team is to a great extent serendipitous.
It’s not something anyone in a suit at Hampden has facilitated or can take credit for outside of hiring Mr Clarke who as Chic was telling us yesterday was the obvious candidate.
The right manager, Steve has gathered a promising group of players and with them negotiated a series of testing challenges.
The stark reality is sometimes the recent games have been painful to watch but progress in baby steps has been noticeable and we genuinely played well against the more fancied Serbia.
Teamwork has been our bedrock.
Teamwork that has been missing for a long time in our international set up and I would argue throughout our game behind the scenes.
Yes we lost a silly goal at the death but Serbia is some 15 places above us in the FIFA rankings and on the night we were by far the better side.
The same Serbian team that had just returned from Oslo having taken apart the much-vaunted Norwegian side.
Steve Clarke has been the catalyst that has facilitated the unforeseen move from Scotland being a team of self-interested individuals into one with the team spirit.
Yes Steve We Can Boogie.
The Scottish team has moved on and the future is brighter on the international stage.
I understand too why many previously ardent Scots fans had distanced themselves from the team as a personal protest against The SFA and their actions over the last few years.
I get that.
But listening to Ryan and Andy and Lyndon and Steve was enough to demonstrate that these guys are playing for the country and their folks back home and not the blazers or the system.
I buy into their passion and that alone is enough to bring even the stubbornest fans back aboard.
When Big Pink asked me to write a blog about the future of this site a couple of weeks back I said I would like to lurk for a few weeks and do some digging.
I have lurked and gone even further back too.
Top line is the SFM blog is not what it was but you all know that.
Here is Some Feedback
Bit by bit; imperceptibly over the months and years the site has entrenched into the home of the anger and the facts against what John Clark has come to call “The Big Lie”.
Its about how the authorities dealt with the financial collapse of Rangers and set the scene for a series of mayhemic events since.
It’s a big Scottish football story and a good insight into how the game managed itself
But other things have been happening since and football has broken out.
One of you said just yesterday
“This site has become a single issue site only becoming alive when something IBROX is current”.
That is partially true and is something to address because it diminishes what this site can achieve.
The number of posters has eroded since the RTC days and the number of clubs represented by posters has also diminished. The site was always a little Celtic minded but open and welcoming of all clubs at the same time.
Some of that goodwill leaked away in this summer’s SPFL pantomime season when self-interest and the quest for 10 became a subconscious position for some of your group.
The level of politeness and the moderation on the site has however remained a huge asset and is almost unique.
This openness has led recently to one serial troll reappearing after several previous monikers and he/she/they have been playing games with several well know posters. The resultant “dancing on a head of a pin” conversations are not so much “Monitoring Scottish Football” as “doing people’s heads in” and this episode has not helped.
That being said I wish salmon were as easy to hook as some on here.
I don’t think there are enough Headline Blogs like this one and in the past I’ve been told many new blogs are simply skimmed politely and ignored as the discussion reverts to the ongoing various fall outs of the consequences of the infamous secret 5 way agreement and all that has ensued following that particular monumental administrative cock up.
I well remember too and liked Stunney and his papers every morning and even though most of what is written in the back pages of the red tops is there to fill space it was still fun to read.
At the same time there has been so much going on that would have benefitted from the forensic discussion that SFM posters brought to the party.
The court reporting by John Clark, EasyJambo and others has been quite dogged, incredibly insightful and shown up the media on many an occasion.
As the subjects under discussion on SFM became narrower I think the site stopped attracting new blood and also accelerated the departure of valued posters.
The diminishing site then became easier for serial disrupters to play with and the ever-decreasing circles metaphor has probably become a reality.
Finally, the adverts on the site that appeared, as if by magic, a few years ago do not deliver enough revenue to justify the inconvenience to readers.
I can’t read the site on my phone without clicking into people trying to sell me stuff I have no interest in.
That’s just a summary of my views as someone who values what this site has brought over the years.
Is it Time for a Reboot at SFM?
I’d say yes and here are a few suggestions to get you thinking and to start a discussion ahead of Big P and his monitors taking some decisions.
Scottish Football needs an independent conscience.
Scottish Football will be the stronger for it.
SFM can be a huge part of that.
Not all fans will want to be part of it because many just want to support their teams and that is fair enough but without a fan voice and without real analysis of what is really going on all that will happen is we’ll get more of the same that took us into the football wilderness.
And without the right changes even Steve Clarke will run out of steam one day when the penalty gods favour some other side.
So here are 5 ideas for SFM to consider
1 A Regular Blog
This doesn’t have to be written for us like in the past– it can just be a weekly news pick that we highlight to set a discussion agenda.
2 The Creation of a John Clark Wall where we hold the facts about the run up to and the creation of his “big lie”.
Set it all our logically and leave it alone for a future date.
It won’t go away because the action created issues for everyone involved.
It should be constructed for all fans with no jelly and ice cream flavouring.
This action would makes SFM the experts and place to go to read what really happened, helps get that monkey off everyone’s back and can be revisited every February 14th or when something turns up.
It might throw more light too in why we are rejoicing about Scotland getting a £10M windfall from qualifying while nobody is talking about the £80M court case costs heading our way as a nation.
All out of a secret 5 way construct back in 2012 and good for nobody whoever you support.
In the meantime SFM should broaden the discussion on other areas like the dropping of the pyramid, the secrecy inherent at the SFA, SPFL and their JRG, Strict Liability, etc. etc. etc.
3 The return of likes for posts that are good or if you agree but with a difference.
I occasionally post on another site which is free to read for anyone but if you want to post or like another post you have to be registered and all likes show the name of the person who has posted.
4 A consideration for different threads at the same time.
5 No ads.
Sponsorship is fine and banner ads for sponsors too but no commercial links that wheech you off to pastures unknown.
Evolution rather than Revolution
I look forward to the debate and to working with Big Pink and his team.
As chair of the largest Scottish group of fans the SFSA (If you’re not a member please join) I know that the only certainty is that fans will never agree about everything or sometimes even anything.
The tribal and competitive nature of football sets us against each other and causes divisions and disagreements that can become entrenched.
Some would say that is part of the fun of it all.
That being said we do generally agree and care deeply about the following.
We want vision, leadership and most of all fairness and transparency.
All alien words in our game as is.
OK Scotland has qualified for a major championship but our game is still locked in a self-interest framed self-imposed wrestling hold and the fact is that escape will never happen without change.
SFM and SFSA can both be part of that.
That’s a staggering 80million pound plus losses since 2012, with this season expected to go nearer 20 million, and as stated if SDI are in along with Hummel et al, for their slice of the confetti pizza, then that’s just mind boggling, and I can’t see how that can remotely pass Uefa FFP, even with the current relaxations.
Acquisition and disposal of player registrations The Group contracted for the purchase of seven permanent player registrations in addition to the temporary registrations of one player on loan. The amount payable in respect of above amounts to £15.4m, after taking account of direct costs. The Group also disposed of ten player registrations on a permanent basis, one registration on loan and became entitled to sell on fees on player registrations previously disposed. The amount receivable in respect of above totaled £1.0m.
These are post balance sheet events so 14.4m can be added to the 15.9m loss for a clearer picture , this is a case for gamblers anonymous. Anyway it's nice they are actually out and should give us something to chew over. The Azets audits services mentioned by Stevie BC is an interesting one to start with.
A further facility provided by Laird to the Company of £5m is being charged interest at 8% on an accruing basis. So that's 400k/yr for King (A real Rangers* man)
The Club is currently engaged in legal proceedings over disputes with a former employee. The case is due to be heard in Court in the first quarter of 2021 with any sum to be paid or received by the club in respect of the actions to be determined at that time. The club is rigorously pursuing its own claim and having taken legal advice is confident that the hearing will find in favour of the club.
Anyone any idea who this could be ? Warburton/Weir are the only ones I can think of who left with unresolved issues( seems a long time ago for this to go to court now)
“Campbell Dallas joined the Azets family in 2017.” according to the Azets website.
brian_d84 20th November 2020 at 21:08
'..What possible purpose could this resurrection serve?..'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Puzzle ye not, brian_d84!
There is no time limit on claims for personal injury damages from even a dissolved and struck off company!
As long as the Court ,to which the application for 'restoration' to the Register is made ,is happy that any such claim would not fail by reason of it being time-barred for other reasons, it can order 'restoration'.
It appears that someone wants to sue for damages from the dissolved and struck off Chelsea FC( company number 00084348), so it has to be restored to 'legal' life for the purposes of that litigation.
I assume that when the litigation is concluded or abandoned or whatever, the Registrar will be ordered to re-dissolve it!
If the Liquidators had finished their business then the likelihood is that there are no 'company assets' available out of which damages could be paid if the claimant wins the case.
The interesting thing will be to see those who were directors of the dissolved company being personally held liable for any damages!
As said before, I am not a lawyer ( as my humble living standards bear witness to!
), but do have a read at Section 1029 et seq of the Companies Act 2006 and see whether I am way off beam. If I can read .2 of a pound as 2 pence rather than 20p I sure as hell can get hold of the wrong end of the stick when reading the language of Acts of Parliament!
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/1029
RIFC is still a plc, but not listed.
If it was listed it would certainly have to make a public statement about a change in external auditor.
A bit like going from Puma to Castore, RIFC has downgraded to a relatively small audit outfit, (franchise?)
On the face of it, this changeover of auditor seems like a rush job – and which is inconsistent with the available deadline extension for Accounts submission to March.
So, why 'rush' out the Accounts now with a new auditor?
Also, just an observation, which might not mean anything in the great scheme of things, but…
This 'new' RIFC auditor Azets Audit Services has a Renfrew addresses: near Braehead in a building called Titanium, per link below.
The exited auditor Campbell Dallas has an office in the same building.
Convenient, if nothing else I suppose?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/TITANIUM,+Kings+Inch+Pl,+Renfrew+PA4+8WF/@55.8718118,-4.3671574,19z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x48884f465a97a785:0x8850d027f3a325f7
melbournedee 20th November 2020 at 23:13
“Campbell Dallas joined the Azets family in 2017.” according to the Azets website.
=======
Good spot.
So it’s mibbees the one and the same office?
Campbell Dallas no longer wanted its name associated with the RIFC Accounts?
[But still wants the fees?]
Apparently a rebrand.
https://scottishfinancialnews.com/article/campbell-dallas-and-scott-moncrieff-to-rebrand-as-azets
Adding some details to Phil’s latest post about outstanding taxes, Note 16 in the accounts reveals Social security and other taxes at 30th June stood at £9,702k, up from £2,906k last year, nearly a £7 million increase.
The accounts state that they have used government schemes to defer payments of VAT and social taxes – no idea if any amounts are overdue, but still have to be paid at some stage.
“Rangers” apparently lose more money than Croesus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55024741
oh dear.
how sad.
never mind.
discuss.
fitbawfan 20th November 2020 at 23:39
Apparently a rebrand. https://scottishfinancialnews.com/article/campbell-dallas-and-scott-moncrieff-to-rebrand-as-azets
=====
Thanks: so no change in auditor at all then.
Well! Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
"We are grateful to the clubs who supported our resolution for an independent investigation into the governance of the game in this country." (Douglas Park, in his 'Chairman's Report')
He is bloody lucky that there has( not yet!) been any 'independent investigation ' by the SFA into the disgusting 5-Way Agreement,
or by the FCA into the claim in the RIFC plc Prospectus that the football club which they punted to potential investors as being the deservedly and famously successful RFC of 1872 foundation and not the gimcrack new entity brought into being in 2012 and admitted into football as a new football club in that year!
The sheer brass- necked-ness of those guys on the Ibrox boards is unbelievable.
But, of course, they have the grip on the cojones of the Football Authorities as having forsworn their offices of trust as the guardians of Sorting Integrity in a sordid dereliction of duty and abandonment of honesty, truth and principle.
For as long as the Big Lie persists, what is the point of Scottish Football?
We would never know what 'fixes' were in place at any given time, arranged for commercial, money-making reasons, with no honest governance of the Sport.
It's as fundamental as that.
I love this bit:
"As stated in note 1 the risk that key cash flows are not achieved as forecast, along with the absence of a binding debt facility for any shortfalls, indicate that a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the Group’s ability to continue as a going concern"
If you were a creditor of RIFC plc, would you not right away be looking for the money you were owed after reading that??
I think I would be in there quick, afore they opted for Administration and ducked and dived to save their personal monies.
Finance Report
The year in review was affected by the curtailment of the 2019/20 season, which meant that from March to June there was no football, or corresponding matchday revenue. As well as that lost revenue from the last five home league games, and three months of non-matchday income from the Stadium, the Club also committed to giving refunds to season ticket holders and hospitality clients. Some of those understandably opted to take a refund, while most left their money within the Club, which we are very grateful for. We are extremely grateful also to all the Club Partners who continued to support the Club throughout the remainder of the season.
The Group has submitted a claim on its Business Interruption insurance for losses caused by COVID-19, the curtailment of the 2019/20 season and the ongoing pandemic, which continues to impact a number of revenue streams and the use of the Stadium. The scale and timing of any claim is uncertain, however we have recognised amounts received from our insurers against our claim to date. The Board continues to work towards getting fans back in the Stadium and will work with the government and football authorities to push for that to happen as restrictions allow. Having fans at football games is at the heart of what we do and is vital to the future finances of the business.
During the lockdown, starting in March, the Club and particularly the football department continued to operate as best it could so that when football re-started, the team was in the best position to hit the ground running. This set of accounts shows a further £11m invested in the first team squad, as well as further spending since the year end of 30 June. This investment is supported by the continued backing of the Board and its investors, as well as the fantastic support of the fans.
Revenue for the year was £59.0m, a 11% increase on the previous year, in spite of the impact of COVID-19.
The men’s first team’s run to the Round of 16 of the UEFA Europa League was responsible for £20.7m of that turnover, again showing that European progression, with its prize monies, broadcasting rights and matchday revenues, are vital to the current development of the team. Alongside that, the fans support was again superb, with season tickets selling out at 45,664, meaning season ticket income rose by £1.2m and hospitality revenues by £0.7m.
This support also then gives the Club the opportunity to capitalise on its commercial partnerships. Sponsorship revenues increased by 13% from the previous year as we added a host of new Club Partners.
Operating expenses excluding amortisation of players’ registrations increased by £10.3m, from £58.2m to £68.5m. That increase is driven mostly by a £6.7m increase in player payroll costs, as the Board continues to invest in the team as we strive for success on the pitch. There was also around £0.5m of additional costs relating to the Womens football department, after the Club committed to going professional for the coming SWFL season.
The operating loss for the year increased from £11.6m to £15.9m.
The gain from player sales was £0.7m in the year, compared to £3.1m in the previous year.
The Club carried out a further share issue during the year, converting £17.7m of shareholder loans to equity and further strengthening the Balance Sheet.
Douglas Park, Chairman
17 November 2020
My post of 0010
'Sorting' integrity? I needed a P .
The Big Lie …continued…
Annual Report 2020
Strategic Report
About Rangers International Football Club plc (the “Company”, “RIFC”, “RIFC plc” and including its Subsidiaries, the “Group”), and Rangers Football Club (the “Club”)
Rangers Football Club, formed in Scotland in 1872, is one of the world’s most successful clubs, having won 54 League titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winners’ Cup in 1972. The Club’s loyal and sizeable supporter base, both in Scotland and around the world, enables the Club to boast one of the highest percentages of season ticket holders in the UK. Playing at the 50,817 seater Ibrox Stadium and benefitting from the world class 37 acre Rangers Training Centre, Rangers have been a leading force in Scottish football for decades. This world class stadium, training infrastructure and a loyal and passionate global fanbase provide an excellent foundation for the Company.
The Club finished second in the SPFL (Scottish Professional Football League) Premiership in season 2019/20. The history, facilities and ambition of the Club are such that the Club remains a desirable destination for foreign and domestic players alike. The first team squad is managed by Steven Gerrard.
The Directors, in preparing this Strategic Report, have complied with s414A to E of the Companies Act 2006.
This Strategic Report has been prepared for Rangers International Football Club plc and its subsidiary undertakings (the Group) as a whole and therefore gives greater emphasis to those matters which are significant to the Group when viewed as a whole.
So an operating loss of just under £16 million (ignore the financing costs as they are largely notional relating to unpaid transfer fees which are discounted because they are interest free).
But as usual, the really interesting bits are on the balance sheet and notes to the accounts.
During the year to 30th June, the "investors" made new loans totalling £23.6 million and £1.8 million being repaid (mainly to Dave King). Another £4.5 million from "investors" has been needed since 30th June.
All of the share issues, including those from July to November 2020, were from conversion of loans – no additional cash flowed into the company's coffers other than the loans detailed above.
In spite of the loan injections, there remained £15.5 million payable for players bought up to 30th June and a further £15.4 million for players acquired since 30th June. Thats over £30 million due for the squad currently playing at Ibrox.
Government schemes for the deferral of VAT payments has seen the amount due for Social security and other taxes increase to £9.7 million, up from £2.9 million in 2019 and needing to be paid in the coming months.
Every year, we remark that the funding required to keep this business afloat looks insurmountable, but each year directors/investors step up to keep things solvent. The Directors are forecasting that they will need only £8.8 million for season 2020/21, but that must be predicated on an extended Euro run and player sales. The club's operating performance and current commitments for player transfer fees suggest a much bigger deficit.
sannoffymesssoitizz 21st November 2020 at 00:44
Rangers Football Club, formed in Scotland in 1872, is one of the world’s most successful clubs, having won 54 League titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winners’ Cup in 1972
It is a fact of Scots Law: that very club – a separate legal entity – sits currently in liquidation and yet they can get away putting that lie on a legal document. Why?
What use is the law of the land when it allows that blatant, criminal mistruth to stand? How can this company claim credit for the ill-gotten gains of another entirely separate company over which they have no legal control or interest?
Now I will hold my breath whilst I wait for the media to ask those questions…. I jest of course. I do not have a death wish. If the MSM address those questions in today’s media, I am Donald Trump.
The release of the financials from Ibrox, indicate the continuing, unchanging approach of the Rangers business. Essentially, spend every penny they have, and lots they don't and gamble on achieving the promised land of group stage CL to avoid financial implosion.
This is a strategy, which is dangerous, risky and hazardous, but having been here previously, with the other company/club, which also operated out of Ibrox( and we all know what happened to them) it suggests something more psychological, something more akin to a chemical dependency, a malaise that they are unable to rid themselves of?
So, now we await the denouncement of a season, where the uncertainty of COVID stalks our world, let alone the fitba arena. Literally, anything could happen down Ibrox way, literally anything, including winning a treble, achieve CL group stage qualification, sell El Buffalo, make money, cover their costs and live happily ever after……
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18888224.going-concern-question-rangers-annual-pre-tax-losses-rise-18m/
Auditors have raised a 'going concern' warning as Rangers announced pre-tax annual losses of £17.793m.
So the Evening Times say 15.9m and its sister paper the Herald say it's 17.8m
What's 2m between siblings ?
The Accounts look familiar now: red flags everywhere and further, eye-watering losses.
By any reasonable measure, RIFC is STILL operating an unsustainable business model. But, if the Directors and shareholders want to continue digging deep to keep RIFC afloat, then that’s their choice. Nothing learned from 2012 and hubris remains front and centre at Ibrox.
However, as in 2012, it’s not just about the Ibrox club. What if TRFC hits the buffers mid-season and unable to complete SPL fixtures, or cup games – or what if European fixtures cannot be completed by TRFC…?
The risk is not just to TRFC, but to the Scottish game as a whole.
So, that’s where our governing body comes in: to proactively manage this risk, created by 1 club of 42.
Nothing learned from 2012 and wilful ignorance remains front and centre at Hampden.
And to think some wanted the SFM to take another direction as the Ibrox debate was becoming old hat. Well when accounts are released on a Friday night and the news is grim, you would think a previous person on this site were sent to to distract attention away from incoming.
Just a Tic fan been paranoid i suppose.
bigboab1916
RC et al are in the basement, and will likely not emerge till the coast is clear i.e. people stop posting about TRFC accounts methinks (and with other guff/deflections).
bigboab1916 21st November 2020 at 12:03
And to think some wanted the SFM to take another direction as the Ibrox debate was becoming old hat. Well when accounts are released on a Friday night and the news is grim, you would think a previous person on this site were sent to to distract attention away from incoming.
Just a Tic fan been paranoid i suppose.
================
– In hock to Hector again?
– Taxpayers money being used to enhance the squad again?
– Wage bill gone up by millions
– Millions needed to see out the rest of this season and all of next.
– Media blaming it all on Covid
– Same media critical and snide about Celtic's accounts a few weeks back showing a small profit
I really don't think any Celtic fan, or indeed any other fan, could ever be paranoid enough. 'Rangers' now need Champions League Group Stage money every bit as much as they did in 2011. I really can't find a way to describe how much all of this stinks.
The PR spin begins in earnest, in The Sun;
"MIND THE GAP Rangers and Celtic finances compared as revenue gap between the two clubs is cut by £19million in ONE year
ANALYSIS Stewart Fisher 21 Nov 2020, 13:31
AT first glance, the headline figures as Rangers issued their annual report last night didn't seem too positive…"
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6308812/rangers-celtic-finances-compared-revenue/
==========
Absolutely correct: TRFC revenues increased as CFC revenues dropped.
Absolutely relevant… if you simply look at this metric in isolation, and conveniently ignore RIFC's bottom line and Going Concern warnings.
Nevertheless, a valiant attempt to put lipstick on a pig!
From the Annual Report:
"The Board of Directors have discussed the Club’s forecast cash flow shortfall and have reached agreement with Douglas Park and John Bennett whereby they will provide additional loan facilities as necessary to meet shortfalls to the above requirements and any further amounts that may be required a result of variances to forecast cash flows. Further to this, Douglas Park and John Bennett have agreed to provide a formal facility with funds being made immediately available to meet short term cash needs with further funds to be made available to draw down as they are required." (page 15)
The Auditors : "As stated in note 1 the risk that key cash flows are not achieved as forecast, along with the absence of a binding debt facility for any shortfalls, indicate that a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the Group’s ability to continue as a going concern." (page 21)
The word of two directors at the top of the marble staircase not being considered as 'binding'?
Good grief, whit's up wi' they auditors?
How dare they tell it as it is!
The SFA CEO Ian Maxwell was eagerly in front of the media and TV cameras recently, after the historic, Scotland Euro's qualification game.
…anybody know where he is today…?
Has Petrie ordered him back into the Hampden bunker?!
What do you do if you lose £11m in a financial year. You bring in new players, increase your players' wage bill by over 6m resulting in net losses the following year of £16m and cover the difference by more and more share issues and money coming in from the backers.
I think I've got my head around this financial fair play now.
It's not Celtic supporters who should be shouting about this, it's the clubs who miss out on league positions, prize money and European places.
Timtim 20th November 2020 at 23:10
The Club is currently engaged in legal proceedings over disputes with a former employee. The case is due to be heard in Court in the first quarter of 2021 with any sum to be paid or received by the club in respect of the actions to be determined at that time. The club is rigorously pursuing its own claim and having taken legal advice is confident that the hearing will find in favour of the club.
…………..
He’s still obviously not settled the manner of his Ibrox departure in his head, but not everything he says should be ignored.Interviewer about MW in March 22, 2018.
….
King did state the matter had been resolved(but you know DK)
……
Mark Warburton sep 20, 2019.
QPR Manageragain repeated his affirmation that neither he nor Davie Weir resigned from their position back in 2017.
……
Could be our old friend mark, but it has taken a long time
Cygnus X-1 21st November 2020 at 09:22
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The release of the financials from Ibrox, indicate the continuing, unchanging approach of the Rangers business. Essentially, spend every penny they have, and lots they don’t and gamble on achieving the promised land of group stage CL to avoid financial implosion.
……………..
Aye you just turn up and qualify. Ask celtic how that goes. The number of clowns down ibrox way who believe they can just win the league and qualification for the champions league is a given.can have your head spinning. Delusion on a grand scale down there. You would have thought they had learned a lesson watching another ibrox club clinging to that hope.
John Clark 21st November 2020 at 14:27
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18888162.douglas-park-predicts-10million-covid-impact-rangers-addresses-calls-hampden-governance-changes/
……..
DOUGLAS PARK believes Rangers will be adversely impacted by more than £10million due to the Coronavirus pandemic this season.
The Ibrox board released the financial figures for year end June 30 on Friday night as RIFC plc posted a loss of £15.9million on a revenue of £59million.
…………….
Blame it on the covid and not the overspending or failure to cut the cloth.
Douglas Park believes TRFC will be adversely affected by etc etc (The Herald Scotland)
Just noticed that the article was (copied and pasted from PR?) by Christopher Jack – Senior Rangers Writer it says!
Now there's an intriguing title!
Who, may I ask in my ignorance, is the Senior Celtic Writer for said newspaper?
Cluster One 21st November 2020 at 18:40
Blame it on the covid and not the overspending or failure to cut the cloth.
========================================
And it's not changing any time soon.
"At the time of preparation, the forecast identified that the Group would require £8.8m by way of debt or equity funding by the end of season 2020/21 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due with further funding of £14.4m required by the end of season 2021/22. The first tranche of funding is required from investors before the end of November 2020."
A question for those who understand these things, surely the loss is actually a bit higher than is being reported.
OPERATING LOSS (15,897)
Profit on disposal of players’ registrations 684
Other charges (206)
Finance costs (2,374)
LOSS ON ORDINARY ACTIVITIES BEFORE TAXATION (17,793)
The "Finance cost" is not included in the "Operating Loss" so have to go in as a separate item, giving a higher overall figure for "LOSS ON ORDINARY ACTIVITIES BEFORE TAXATION".
Sorry if I have picked that up wrong.
I believe the true loss is a LOT higher than is being reported
Taxes deferred , wages deferred , loans mounting up and court cases coming to a conclusion. They are well over the uefa limit for a licence for next season , time someone in authority had a word.
Timtim 21st November 2020 at 23:28
'..They are well over the uefa limit for a licence for next season'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Timtim, that has, allegedly, never bothered the ars.s of the SFA licensing committee whose decision in a certain year the SFA refuses even to investigate even in the face of abundant evidence that they got it wrong!
bect67 21st November 2020 at 20:16
'..Senior Rangers Writer it says!.'
""""""""""""""""""""""
Late of a very pleasant Sunday evening, I felt I just had to send a message to the 'Herald'
"To:letters@theherald.co.uk
Sun, 22 Nov at 00:03
Dear 'Herald'
What are you about? 'Senior Rangers Writer'??
You need to explain yourself, I think.
Have you a Senior Writer for any other club?
Are you paying Jack, or is he or 'Rangers' paying you?
Honest to God, what are you like?
JC
Homunculus 21st November 2020 at 22:36
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Cluster One 21st November 2020 at 18:40
Blame it on the covid and not the overspending or failure to cut the cloth.
========================================
And it’s not changing any time soon.
“At the time of preparation, the forecast identified that the Group would require £8.8m by way of debt or equity funding by the end of season 2020/21 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due with further funding of £14.4m required by the end of season 2021/22. The first tranche of funding is required from investors before the end of November 2020.”
…………….
And add the cost of 150 year celebrations for a new club. feck it throw in a hotel and fan zone also. In for a penny in for a pound.
…………………….
The first tranche of funding is required from investors before the end of November 2020.”
…..
Right, who’s turn is it? I did it last time.
Naw ye didny, i did it.
Awe feck.
……….
Dave king was smart enough to get away.
Dave King was smart enough to use company funds to fly him first class to the UK from South Africa so he could go and watch Liverpool play , use company funds to fight pointless and self inflicted court cases which he lost , step down as CEO but remain the largest shareholder ,smart enough to get 8% interest on a 5m loan when every other investor is getting worthless share certificates and smart enough to be hailed as a messiah instead of the pariah he really was . However this doesn't prove he was smart it does show the people he was fleecing were very gullible.
Looking at Xenforo as a new Forum platform;
https://xenforo.com/community/
Have a butchers and let me have some feedback. The platform will cost around £300 to buy licences so we don’t want to make any rash decisions if folk don’t like the look of it.
Important you guys let me know if this looks right for us.
Other examples at
https://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/ and
https://www.flyfishing.co.uk/
No sniggering at the back 🙂
Big Pink 22nd November 2020 at 12:12
Looking at Xenforo as a new Forum platform; https://xenforo.com/community/
Have a butchers and let me have some feedback
Other examples at https://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/ and https://www.flyfishing.co.uk/
No sniggering at the back
=======================
OK, I'll bite…
Salmonfishing example has sunk / not accessible.
Flyfishing example looks fine: intuitive navigation and graphics ok. I presume adverts come with this option?
I guess the main factor is to minimise ongoing maintenance / moderation?
With numerous threads 'live' simultaneously, I guess that adds to admin. effort (? honestly don't know if that is correct).
A new platform would fit in with re-energising SFM, IMO.
Could I just welcome our newest poster J.R.Hartley to the forum.
UEFA has suspended FFP for the 2020 season and will combine 2020 and 2021 in their next financial assessments. Here is a Guardian article about it from July.
”Owners of top clubs will temporarily be permitted by Uefa’s financial fair play rules to put more money into their clubs, to cover increased losses caused by football’s shutdown due to the Covid-19 pandemic.
Uefa announced a series of “emergency measures” to acknowledge that clubs competing in the Champions League and Europa League, who must comply with FFP “break-even” limits, cannot do so this season because of drastic losses caused by the shutdown.
The principles accept that clubs can make losses greater than the permitted €30m over a rolling three-year period, and that owners can cover those losses. Uefa stressed, however, that it was still committed to encouraging good financial management by clubs, and the measures were aimed only at “neutralising the adverse effects of the pandemic”: lost ticket income while matches are played behind closed doors, and the potentially major loss of some TV, commercial and sponsorship income.
The current rules, intended to encourage clubs to live within the money they make and not pay excessive wages to players, limit clubs’ maximum losses to €30m over a three-year period, as long as €25m of that loss is covered by an owner. The new measures state that the current 2020 financial year will not be assessed at all under FFP procedures, and will instead be rolled up into 2021, and the two years assessed together as a single financial period.
Uefa sources confirmed that clubs would be allowed losses in excess of €30m as long as they show this was caused by falls in revenues because of the shutdown. Clubs will be able to cope with their own increased losses however they responsibly can, including by owners putting money in, either in loans or shares. Uefa said these emergency measures were intended to “give clubs more time to quantify and account for unanticipated loss of revenues”.
The umbrella organisation Football Supporters Europe, which comprises Uefa-recognised fans’ groups across the continent including in Britain, has called for supporters to be fully engaged in processes for financial and governance reform after the crisis. Describing football’s structures as “flawed, unfair and unsustainable”, FSE said: “There can be no ‘return to normal’.”
The FSE statement, signed by England’s Football Supporters’ Association, Supporters Direct Scotland and other groups from across Europe, described fans as “the lifeblood of the game” and objected to artificial crowd noise played by broadcasters over matches behind closed doors.
“Empty stadia are a direct consequence of a public health crisis that has impacted every single one of us, and the absence of fans cannot be compensated for by a computer simulation aimed at the amusement of television audiences,” the statement said.
incredibleadamspark
Thanks for that. Of course Scottish clubs, with their higher dependence on gate income, will have an easier time demonstrating losses as a consequence of Covid than most.
BP, I took the bait and posted some feedback on the platform examples given, but my post disappeared into the ether – and when I retried I got the dialog box "Duplicate Comment".
I didn't swear in the post, honest.
Just mentioning in case others have similar issue.
StevieBC
Went into Spam 🙂
I feel the present format of SFM is just grand.
I like it’s simplicity of presentation, ease of access and search, and accessibility.
The thread format which you give examples of and which can be seen right across the internet always end up as a discursive mess.
As a very rare contributor but constant reader, I recognise the value of a relatively small number of those who contribute frequently bringing their knowledge and interest to bear on eg the Ibrox accounts.
I know BP and Trisidium have bourne the weight of keeping the site going and that might be alleviated a bit by more of us chipping in a little more frequently both financially and making sensible comments ( that lets me out!).
Leave well enough alone I say.
Thanks for the feedback Stevie
One of the big things involved in this platform is that we could have sub forums which were club specific. A Hearts forum, an Aberdeen Forum, a Celtic Forum and so on.
Main forum which would replace the current thread would be the Mosh Pit or such like, to discuss a range of things, but the threads inside the forums (fora) would still be discrete.
Aurellio Zen
Hoping that the move would add to the facility, and not dispense with the main thrust of discussion. As I suggested earlier, we could still have a main thread that would mimic the current one. And of course we would still have headline posts – hopefully more of them.
hello all
just saying hi as someone who is new here and wish all the best.
As a previous contributor when the site was more varied and populated I wanted to put my tuppence worth in. Obviously these are only my observations and options and can be ignored or taken on board as seen fit.
I really like the idea of different forums for each team. There will always be the accusations of bias to one team, and it was a shame we lost a number of Hearts fans this year. So for that reason it would be good to have different threads for each club whilst also having the (hopefully more of) main blogs to comment on.
The resident troll who has had multiple usernames over the years de-rails a lot of the chat and as a fellow Rangers fan he does nothing to help my clubs image. A stricter vetting process would help clamp that out and whilst I appreciate the moderators difficult balance between free speech and censorship, it is so easy to see similarities in the way he writes that it is obvious he is the same troll and blocking such people would go a long way to keeping the site on track.
Like others have observed I do believe it has become a very “one topic” forum. The fact that those of us like me who believe Rangers to be the same club we have always followed get told “you KNOW your a new club” is frankly offensive. I made my argument on that 4 years ago here and I’m perfectly happy to take the “I appreciate your argument, I disagree but hey that’s life” and see no point in arguing further. A NC/OC thread was created for exactly that topic yet it only seemed that views contrary to the narrative on here were moved onto that while one poster in particular persists to bring it up on a daily basis.
Now I appreciate why 2012 and what happened to rangers around that time is such a huge point for so many so I’m not trying to bury the story by any extent – why not have it the top pinned post on the new forum to allow the site which was born out of the RTC to keep it front and centre, but by having other threads and topics it will open it up to a far larger audience than the echo chamber it is just now. It could be the main thread, the first thing people see when they come onto the website, but then threads on other topics wouldn’t have to be railroaded back to 2012 and an angry letter written by a contributor?
I want to also say credit to Andrew for his blog on the Scotland teams achievement. Whilst club level is always the bread and butter, the national team has always been where my real emotions are with. Regardless of my views on players or managers, the minute the 11 pull on the Scotland shirt I’m emotionally invested and I celebrate and commiserate with each and everyone one of them. The last major tournament we were in I was still in secondary school and after so many false dawns last week we finally managed to qualify and I won’t lie, the hangover on the Friday was substantial! As any website that calls itself “Scottish football monitor” there is no bigger story than the national teams success and credit to this site for putting it front and centre in the last blog.
I first joined and liked the idea of a Scottish football blog that was supposed to be independent and calling to account corruption within the Scotland game at all levels. As a Rangers fan I will be first to say that the lack of coverage and protection from the media and authorities of our difficulties a decade ago led to the awful years that followed, and I’m equally concerned that we have not learned our lessons and are heading down the same path as before! I’m not your typical rangers fan on FF who is so ignorant as not to see the sh** show that has been my club since the mid 2000’s, but even though I agree in a large part with many of the posters views on most things, because I don’t subscribe to the NC narrative I have always felt like an outsider. Particularly in the last 18 months it has become as I say a bit of an echo chamber for people of the same views which is why I (and I’m sure many others) have stopped contributing.
In summary, working with the limited budget and technological limitations I believe BP and Trisidium have done a sterling job with the blog, and the forum idea and suggestions I’ve outlined above could turn it into a genuine multi club forum and not just the fringe narrative it is just now.
Finally unrelated to any of the above I just want to say the people who contribute on here, regardless of their views, are for the most part respectful, articulated and polite. That’s not something often seen in forums.
Darkbeforedawn 22nd November 2020 at 16:21
Like others have observed I do believe it has become a very “one topic” forum. The fact that those of us like me who believe Rangers to be the same club we have always followed get told “you KNOW your a new club” is frankly offensive.
Sorry but how can the truth be offensive, quite willing to listen to your argument, but Charles Green never bought the history of a liquidated company.
Big Pink, should you and the others choose to deviate from the current format, which i tend to like I’d like to offer some options.
Like some others I read SFM daily and only post occasionally, I incidentally also subscribe to one of the flyfishing forums above (whoda thunkit flyfishing & football, but there you go) The Xenforo software that FFF uses works fine, albeit their adverts are in your face, (I know that they have to pay for hosting and understand they are trying to re-coup some expense) I just wish the ads were less in your face, so I didn’t have to use Ad blocking software in my browser (such as Noscript).
I notice SFM runs on Apache web server software, albeit on a Windows host operating system. I’m not sure if this is a hosting option (I’m assuming tucows) or it is incorrectly identifying itself, If there was an option for the guys running the site to use a Linux operating system, there are many free forum software out there that cost nothing to use such as Discourse https://www.discourse.org/ or you can pick any from the top fifteen at https://www.ubuntupit.com/top-15-best-forum-software-for-linux/
Just another option to save a bit on expense of running such a site.
Re the accounts – page 46 has an interesting entry on a "debt for £2.278M due from a single debtor" . Is this a claim against Big Mike? Someone else? £2.278M is a lot of tat if that is what it relates to….
Hope they are right about it being recoverable.
If it's not recoverable then does their loss for the year go up to £19.74M, almost double the previous year (£11.277M)?
A slightly concerning direction of travel especially in today's pandemic and economic environment.
On the brighter side are they not now the world leaders in the production of confetti? 🙂
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
My point was regardless of any topic or debate, on literally any subject it is offensive to be told what you believe. That you somehow believe with the narrative (whatever it is) and are deliberately denying it. Not just here but I find this often in any polarising debate like brexit, independence etc. “You KNOW xyz”. Call me wrong, call me an idiot but don’t presume to know what I think.
bigboab1916
Just to give you a 'heads up'
Our Lazarus has risen from the …?
Darkbeforedawn ( has been here before – basically antagonisng others (a la RC) who don't agree with him/challenge his views – only imho it has to be said
He's 'aye ready' (motto of Rangers 1872-1912) to 'noise you up'!
I have definitely been on here before but I would like to have thought I have never antagonised anyone! I try to be polite and respectful and if I have ever come across as antagonising I will apologise. I try and debate respectfully and do not close my mind of to listening to other viewpoints on any topic. I’m sure you don’t agree with me on much but I’m hope you don’t mean the antagonising comment
DBD
Ur yi hivin a laff?
incredibleadamspark 22nd November 2020 at 13:15
UEFA has suspended FFP for the 2020 season and will combine 2020 and 2021 in their next financial assessments. Here is a Guardian article about it from July.
….
The principles accept that clubs can make losses greater than the permitted €30m over a rolling three-year period, and that owners can cover those losses. Uefa stressed, however, that it was still committed to encouraging good financial management by clubs, and the measures were aimed only at “neutralising the adverse effects of the pandemic”: lost ticket income while matches are played behind closed doors, and the potentially major loss of some TV, commercial and sponsorship income.
………………..
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18888162.douglas-park-predicts-10million-covid-impact-rangers-addresses-calls-hampden-governance-changes/
DOUGLAS PARK believes Rangers will be adversely impacted by more than £10million due to the Coronavirus pandemic this season.
…………..
I wondered why park came out with a statement like that a day before the accounts came out.
Blame it all on the covid
Darkbeforedawn 22nd November 2020 at 16:21
The fact that those of us like me who believe Rangers to be the same club we have always followed get told “you KNOW your a new club” is frankly offensive.
…
Now I appreciate why 2012 and what happened to rangers around that time is such a huge point for so many so I’m not trying to bury the story by any extent.
…
As a Rangers fan I will be first to say that the lack of coverage and protection from the media and authorities of our difficulties a decade ago led to the awful years that followed, and I’m equally concerned that we have not learned our lessons and are heading down the same path as before!
…………..
What was it that happened to rangers around about that time?
What lack of protection did the authorities not give rangers?
What path would that be the club is heading down as before?
What lessons have not been learned?
I will agree with you that the lack of coverage from the media never helped the difficulties a decade ago. But the ibrox club have never helped themselves in that department with the lack of media coverage.
……
Hope i put my questions across as polite as i could
I must say that I like the site as is and I'm not keen on the layout of the example sites. Also I think that have multiple layers for individual clubs is unnecessary, there are plenty of fan club sites available. Personally I only read my own Club's sites and this one.
CO, I’ll hopefully attempt to address each of your questions in turn.
Firstly the way I wrote the point around “protection” was badly written. By that I meant we were protected by the media and the authorities and any bad news was dropped so as not to upset Murray. I did not mean we were not protected, quite the opposite.
From the late 1990s Rangers were operating on a business model of spending your way out of trouble. If only we spend x amount on players the the champions league holy grail will keep us right! We spent money we did not have, had a completely unsustainable business model and only cared about the results on the pitch. It ended in disaster in 2012 and it was lucky that we had enough fan base as to make buying the club viable or I wouldn’t have had a club to follow the last 8 years. We were under no scrutiny by the SFA or the media and although they thought it was for our own good, it was devastating. And the same SFA and same compliant media are doing the same now. Why have there not been more questions about this years terrifying accounts?
And for what lessons have not been learned; it’s a summary of all of the above. Spending money we don’t have, gambling on future success, pretending that we’re in rude health, a compliant media telling soothing stories, a governing body looking the other way. I’m sure I’ve seen that script before
Darkbeforedawn 22nd November 2020 at 21:35
Firstly
Are you saying then Murray had the media and the authorities protecting the ibrox fan base from any negative stories or information being released and in doing so kept Murray happy and kept the ibrox fan base in the dark?
…………..
We spent money we did not have, had a completely unsustainable business model and only cared about the results on the pitch. It ended in disaster in 2012
…
Winning all those trophies with a completely unsustainable business model that the fans only cared about the results on the pitch.Would seem to some not to be such a disaster.Most ibrox fans would believe it only ended in a disaster in 2012 as time caught up with this unsustainable business model.
……………
and it was lucky that we had enough fan base.
…
For the SFA and SPL to panic and believe they would be lost to the game, that the SFA and SPL Tried everything in their power to help an ibrox club not to be lost to the game.
……………………..
I’m sure I’ve seen that script before.
…
Would we still be seeing it again if the truth was told in 2012?
………
@DBD
The club* and company* were incorporated in 1899 , that is acknowledged as fact and supported by documentation. incorporation means joined together made one and the same . If you accept the company* is currently being liquidated (which is supported by documentation and acknowledged as fact) then unless you can produce documentation to show the club* was unincorporated from the company* then you are in a state of denial (stage 1 of the Kubhler Ross model of grief) The reason the media and eventually the authorities started backtracking on declaring their demise (maybe you read it in the papers ) was Rangers* fans were not supporting the tribute act created by Green and their "old firmery" gravy train was heading for the buffers . Now if you choose to believe otherwise because reality is upsetting to you then I have no problem with that but you have to realise everyone else and that seems to be supporters of every other club in Scotland cannot pretend that Santa exists in order to placate you. Stages 2 to 5 can be tough but I'm sure you will get much support on here if you embark on that journey. You already know it's darkest just before dawn , walk towards the light , walk on walk on with hope in your heart , you won't walk alone .
Darkbeforedawn 22nd November 2020 at 21:35
From the late 1990s Rangers were operating on a business model of spending your way out of trouble. If only we spend x amount on players the the champions league holy grail will keep us right! We spent money we did not have, had a completely unsustainable business model and only cared about the results on the pitch. It ended in disaster in 2012 …
=====================================
You are missing the bit about failing to pay tax collected to HMRC, being placed into administration and HMRC rejecting a CVA, leading to liquidation.
So, funding the overspending by stealing from the taxpayer.
At least the new club seems to be funding the overspending itself.
Absolutely Homunculus. A shameful period in the club history. Hubris and utter contempt to everyone that wasn’t part of the club. An embarrassing phase that we should never be allowed to forget. I said many times in 2012 and beyond that we should have owned up, admitted to our mistakes, apologies profusely and asked for forgiveness. Instead we made ourselves out to be the victim lashing out at all. We were not the victim, we got punished for our transgressions and deservedly so. I genuinely believe had the club came out and admitted our failings and apologised then “moving on” would have been a lot easier. I also see the views of those who don’t want to “move on” as with a combination of the victim storyline and the continuing to spend money we don’t have it’s two fingers up to everyone else abiding by the rules.
Timtim, to be honest it doesn’t really have any impact on me that’s why I don’t see any benefit of arguing. I turn up (in normal times) at the gates of Ibrox and cheer on a team in blue as I’ve always done and with the same emotional investment. Even if UEFA and the SFA came out and said it’s a new team it’s semantics. It doesn’t stop the fact for me I have a team I’m emotionally invested in and can still follow. And I’m lucky as many others (maybe all other) teams in the situation the club would have folded. New club or same club, for me going to games, following it on the telly or reading about us there is nothing that feels different than before 2012. That’s why I’ve said by all means have it the main sticky on the forum, it’s clearly a huge deal to many, but I don’t believe it should be the full focus of the forum. I’m a rangers fan, and okay if it makes many people happier then I’ll agree with them all that we are a new club but it still feels bloody like the old one haha! And I think there is so much forensic analysis that this deserves more than to be just a fringe blog. And a forum for all of Scottish football, holding to account those in the wrong (and obviously so my club who have been at the centre of most controversies).
Firstly
Are you saying then Murray had the media and the authorities protecting the ibrox fan base from any negative stories or information being released and in doing so kept Murray happy and kept the ibrox fan base in the dark?
yes 100% that’s what I’m saying. Murray was the master of playing to the fan base. Fans revolt? Turn up at the stadium with a new player on the private jet. He basically bribed most journalists into following his message.
…………..
…
Winning all those trophies with a completely unsustainable business model that the fans only cared about the results on the pitch.Would seem to some not to be such a disaster.Most ibrox fans would believe it only ended in a disaster in 2012 as time caught up with this unsustainable business model.
……………
looking short term I’d agree. But that was the problem, we looked short term at the weeks and days ahead, not the years as we should have.
…
Would we still be seeing it again if the truth was told in 2012?
No and that’s where I agree with the majority on here, protocols should have been put in place after 2012. As it is neither the bodies nor the club have learned their lesson. And the accounts on Friday night show the precarious position of my club. An arrogant view that “screw it, if we go bust we’ll just shed our debts and start again”. Well what if next time no one is willing to buy the assets and the SFA won’t accept us into the league? I’m sure the Lehman Brothers thought they were too big to fail.
Darkbeforedawn 23rd November 2020 at 00:16
DBD , since you're happy too accept that the club you supported should have fessed up to cheating , do you think that titles won during that dartk period should be removed ? Re assigned ? Asterisked ? This list is not exhaustive ! You surely don't want to keep them ?
Darkbeforedawn 23rd November 2020 at 00:16
Well what if next time no one is willing to buy the assets and the SFA won’t accept us into the league?
…………….
I believe they changed the rules and if this ibrox club goes bust, there won’t be the shambles of 2012 they will be kept in with sanctions.And if it happens even the sanctions will be bent not to hinder any new entity.
CO, I don't think it's just the change of rules this time. Didn't Charles Green cleverly set things up this time so that there really was a holding company (RIFC) so that if liquidation came calling again, the club, with it's own legal identity (TRFC) could in fact be said to continue to exist and therefore be sold as a going concern?
I'm not sure if they'd get away with that, as I recall that was the argument Southampton used to try to avoid a points deduction due to Administration. The FA refused because it was simply more of a shell than a true holding company i.e. the income/expenditure for one was the income/expenditure for the other. Remember, a true holding company exists to hold shares in a number of companies. That said, they might get away with it up here – it is the SFA, after all.
While I'm on, can I just say that when he last posted semi-regularly on here, I didn't think Darkbeforedawn was one of RC's predecessor-types. He didn't spout the same pish (!) and, as he shows again above, he admits he, for himself, chooses to treat the new club as if it's the old club. For me, that's a bit different from those who try to convince everyone else it IS the same club.
CO, I really hope that is not our “business model” to go down the route of shedding the debt, and pheonixing again.
I personally thought the accounts on Friday were terrifying. There are two scenarios that can play out. 1: win the league, qualify for the CL group stages and sell a player or two for +£10m. Wipe out the debt and then start on a more responsible business plan. 2: fail in any of the above and were looking at almost certain administration. Covid has helped us by allowing the deferring of some bills, but the outcomes remain the same – achieve the riches of the CL or bust. Leeds had exactly the same business model in the early 2000’s and a bout of food poisoning in their last game of the season almost finished them as a club and they had 20 long years to get back to where they were. Now we definitely could do the former – Celtics performances of late have given us the hope – but what a huge gamble! Especially in the uncertain landscape of Covid. A breakout amongst the first team, an injury crisis, a drop of form, a disallowed goal in a CL qualifier. Any of those could be enough to bring down the entire house of cards.
Now I don’t think it’s all bad news for Scottish football. We have a genuine title race on our hands for the first time in a decade. Both sides of the Old Firm are regularly competing in Europe and pulling our good results. The quality of play by my own team is as good as any since Advocaat. In Clark we have a thoroughly decent bloke who has just taken Scotland into the Euros which would have seemed impossible under McLeish. In the likes of Gerrard and Rodgers we have shown that Scotland can still attract big names. Despite all these positives the worry for me is the Scottish game is always only moments away from Armageddon.
phil's latest(rugger guy)
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/11/23/rugger-guy-does-a-deep-dive-in-to-rifc-year-end-accounts/#more-19084
Darkbeforedawn 23rd November 2020 at 17:47
1: win the league, qualify for the CL group stages and sell a player or two for £10m.
……………….
If they sell their best players in Jan, they may then struggle in the league. But then again they have been trying to sell players for years and no one came calling.
Again if they sell their best players what chance does an unseeded ibrox club have of reaching the champions league group stages?
All we hear now is reaching the champions league group stages. Have any of the ibrox fan base looked at the teams that did not make the champions league group stages these last few years. Yet they believe they can do it first time asking. Delusion.
That kind of delusion killed the last ibrox club, they thought they could just turn up and qualify and banked on it. Have no lessons been learned by the ibrox fan base?Even if lessons have not been learned they can’t have forgotten. Because as they say we keep reminding them;-)
Cluster One 23rd November 2020 at 09:41
…
if this ibrox club goes bust, there won’t be the shambles of 2012 they will be kept in with sanctions.And if it happens even the sanctions will be bent not to hinder any new entity.
======
IMO, it's fair to say that reasonable observers are further perplexed that individuals – seemingly – continue to pour private funds into the bottomless pit which is RIFC, and with a negligible chance of any financial return.
IMO, there is information – rather significant information – which must make sense of these Ibrox 'investments'.
And with the continued – externally audited – uncertainty around RIFC/TRFC's future, what would happen if TRFC maintained its 11 point lead through to say, February, and then entered Administration?
If the subsequent points deduction handed the 10IAR title to CFC… would that title require an asterisk?