We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
wulba says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 17:54
3 0 Rate This
Fozzy time to go away and run yourself a hot bath!
==========
Surely his mammy does that for him?
youtawknaboot says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:10
My better half is a senior social work type, you would not believe the spike in domestic abuse after certain football matches, most of it worsened by booze
So not just yes, but hell yes.
Agreed Scapa..
My missus & I also work in “partnership” with social work,& daily witness the long term effects.
Can you believe..someone has already TD that last post..?
…must be a Tennents rep 🙂
Re Fozzys interventions this afternoon. Possible distraction attempt from the nuclear teasing tweet exchange between @Barcabhoy and @RTC?
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:40
With respect, these attempts at distraction, even though I fell for it, have no real effect. We always end up seeing through it. I cannot see the point. Any regulars here view it as a mildly amusing diversion I think.
It’s a reminder more than anything and helps guard against complacency
Long Time Lurker
That’s the one! I knew it wasn’t the Forbes report.
Malcolm Murray Statement on the Rangers Website
RANGERS Football Club has today released the following statement.
Speaking in response to an article by Mr Jon Pritchett (advisor to Bill Miller at the time of his bid for the Club) in Forbes magazine, Malcolm Murray, Chairman of Rangers Football Club, said: “The last time Mr Pritchett had sight of any financial information about Rangers was many months ago and, as a result, his article in Forbes Magazine is ill informed, misleading and scaremongering.
“For the avoidance of doubt, there is no risk of the Club going into administration and any suggestion otherwise is scandalous and appears written to attract headlines.
“Projections Mr Pritchett had sight of have not been relevant since May and from the day I became Chairman, I have been committed to ensuring this Club lives within its means and never again comes to the brink of collapse.
“We have already secured significant investment in the Club from the individuals and organisations who are part of our consortium and the successful IPO later this month will generate many millions in additional revenue.
“It does not take a genius to work out that costs needed to be cut at the Club and this has happened, with the first team wage bill being reduced significantly. However, we also have a plan to maximise commercial revenues and develop many areas of the Club that historically were under utilised.
“It is my understanding that Mr Miller’s plans were based purely on cost cutting and little additional investment in the Club.
“What is also clear from his article is that Mr Pritchett completely underestimated the loyalty and commitment of the Rangers fans. In addition to the 36,000 season ticket holders so far this season, the attendances at our home matches have surpassed many of the top clubs in England and the rest of Europe.
“We have a clear plan to rebuild this great Club and believe that with solid business practices and the ongoing tremendous support from the fans, this will be achieved.”
Can anyone explain this from RTC?
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Malcolm Murray v Pritchett- truth lies somewhere in between. If Newco is to climb to greatness, it needs a lot of cash and/or luck.
“We have already secured significant investment in the Club from the individuals and organisations who are part of our consortium and the successful IPO later this month will generate many millions in additional revenue.”
Oh Dear…..
bangordub says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:46
I agree with where you are coming from – I was just trying to see through the fog 😉
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:55
Statement just released above, hence the Fog, all clear now I believe?
Dawwell ‘there’s nothing wrong with asking questions’ DOH!! 🙂
timtim says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:50
Malcolm Murray Statement on the Rangers Website
RANGERS Football Club has today released the following statement….
“For the avoidance of doubt, there is no risk of the Club going into administration and any suggestion otherwise is scandalous and appears written to attract headlines….”
===============================================================
Charlie & Murray must be rattled to make the above statement : “..no risk..” ?
Fozzy (@grantyfoster) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 16:27
Fozzy! you were obvioulsy the tax expert at Rangers or MIH judging by the tosh your coming out with.
As for the other reference, is that your defence for the wrong doings of your club
Brenda@18:59
I was taken aback when i heard Dawwell say that,he should maybe heed his own words and remember if you dont ask,you dont know and he certainly doesn’t know.
jeez a lot of different people don’t half say “for the avoidance of doubt” a lot
someone needs a new catchphrase.
just to be clear.
Fozzy (@grantyfoster) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 16:58
==============================
Fozzy. I feel your pain.
Fozzy (@grantyfoster) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 16:58
———————————————————————————————————————————
I take it from the way you write the date you are a yank?
So finally Chairman Malcolm Murray pops his head above the parapet.
The Forbes articles makes perfect sense even if the figures are out of date because some of them will still be relevant.
It is clear that Bill Miller saw a black hole into which money could easily disappear.
Now Green and Murray may have cut some costs, mostly by reducing the squad but they still have a manager on £1m a year. They still have some players on £10k a week, possibly more. Other than players there has been no redundancies therefore everyone else on the books including all the coaching staff, club management and admin must have Tupe’d over.
Yes they have sold plenty season tickets and have good pay on the day figures but these are all at reduced levels.
The costs for rates, security , catering etc will still be the same for Ibrox and Murray Park as previously.
Yes they are trying hard but they are now a Div 3 Team gaining access to good sponsorship deals and the like will not be easy. The ‘offer’ is certainly not going to be that attractive to the names being banded about.
It really is a question of whether or not they have done enough to balance the books and if they need more cash where is it going to come from?
The apparent hurry to get some form of share issue sorted smells of the projections for this season being, at best, tight.
If Murray is so confident then I assume he will be happy to show Jon Pritchett and the rest of us the business plan and all the financial details produced in time for the share issue?
I sit possible of Rangers to have an IPO later this month, far less a “successful” one. Are you absolutely sure Mr Murray.
I know wikid paedia isn’t considerd the best of sources but for what it’s worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_public_offering
An initial public offering (IPO) or stock market launch is a type of public offering where shares of stock in a company are sold to the general public, on a securities exchange, for the first time. Through this process, a private company transforms into a public company. Initial public offerings are used by companies to raise expansion capital, to possibly monetize the investments of early private investors, and to become publicly traded enterprises. A company selling shares is never required to repay the capital to its public investors. After the IPO, when shares trade freely in the open market, money passes between public investors. Although an IPO offers many advantages, there are also significant disadvantages. Chief among these are the costs associated with the process, and the requirement to disclose certain information that could prove helpful to competitors, or create difficulties with vendors. Details of the proposed offering are disclosed to potential purchasers in the form of a lengthy document known as a prospectus. Most companies undertaking an IPO do so with the assistance of an investment banking firm acting in the capacity of an underwriter. Underwriters provide a valuable service, which includes help with correctly assessing the value of shares (share price), and establishing a public market for shares (initial sale).
And so it goes on …
Ok, Lets break this down:
1. Pritchards “Projections” (NB) date from May, in other words relates to Oldco
2. We have Organisations and individuals on board. (Who?)
3. Plus we have the successful ??????? many millions ????????? IPO (Wtf ???)
4. Costs must be cut. We’ve cut the players wage bill. (No s**t Sherlock)
5. Loyalty, Commitment, Great Club, Fans, etc etc
Whew
Dawwell what a joke.When was the last time you asked a question to your friends at
iPox?Never once have you asked a probing question.
PS
Just a reminder to Chairman Murray that Duff & Duffer significantly reduced the first team wage bill when they negotiated the reduced salaries (£1.8m) but the club still managed to run up a £4m loss.
Fozzy(@grantyfoster) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012,
If you are indeed an American can you tell us when you became a fan of Sevco? Or were you a
Rangers fan first?
Are you one of the examples of the supporters that Chuckles is targetting throughout the world,
due to the squillions of pounds of untapped market that is out there?
Can you tell me what made you a supporter of the Govan club? Which particular facet of their
being did you fall in love with first? Was it the company or the club which swayed it for you?
wulba says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 19:30
Dawwell what a joke.When was the last time you asked a question to your friends at
iPox? Never once have you asked a probing question.
===========================================
Yeah…but you must appreciate that Dawwell is so much better than his peers in the Scottsih MSM at “not asking any probing questions”.
That is undoubtedly why he was the worthy winner of “Scottish Sports News Journalist of the Year” in April at the Scottish Press Awards.
On you go Dawwell, do what you’re great at: don’t ask any questions… 😉
Malcolm in the Muddle, you could give the share issue a much needed boost by producing the title deeds for Ibrox and giving Bomber Brown and Donald Findlay a wee butchers. Like you were going to do a few months ago before you cancelled that particular meeting.
Guidi on SSB tomorrow night!! Really ‘hope’ he doesn’t kick-off 😉 sorry couldn’t resist 🙂
Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 19:21
0 0 Rate This
I sit possible of Rangers to have an IPO later this month, far less a “successful” one. Are you absolutely sure Mr Murray.
=============================================
It is absolutely impossible. Any “public” offering (IPO) would have to be through a recognised stock exchange, would take at least 6 months, would cost a fortune in fees, and would require full and detailed disclosure by way of a prospectus. That isn’t going to happen, and Green has already made it clear that it isn’t going to happen. So Murray doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
According to Green, the opportunity to buy shares will be restricted to the “Rangers Family”. That can only be done through a private share issue, whereby new shares (almost certainly non-voting shares) will be offered to selected individuals on a private treaty basis. This avoids the costs of a stock market listing, any need for disclosure, any prospectus, any supervision by the FSA or a stock exchange.
A very cleverly worded letter will shortly be sent to every member of the “Rangers Family” urging them to rally to the flag and become part of the club’s history, etc, etc, etc, and inviting them to part with at least £500. The net will be cast very wide, and I confidently predict that the cash will pour into Green’s coffers.
Even Green can only pull this stunt once, so as soon as the money is safely banked, he will be off. And by the way, I am completely confident that Ibrox and Murray Park do not belong to the company that Green is offering shares in. Those properties have most likely been shifted to an offshore company by now, leaving TRFC to pay rent for ever more. That is why Green (or whoever he represents) bought Rangers. He wanted the properties, and now he’s got them. And if TRFC can’t afford the rent, then it’s Tesco time for Ibrox, and a golf complex at Murray Park.
StevieBC says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 17:13
6 0 Rate This
English FA – and their 2020 Vision.
———————————————————
Having looked at this story it smacks a little bit of ‘all the gear and no idea’.
I dont think Scotland needs to get envious over the size of its neighbours facilities.
What we do need is investment in coaching, coaching and coaching.
I’m still waiting for CO to announce that 10 year plan.
timtim says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 18:50
“…the successful IPO later this month will generate many millions in additional revenue.”
=============
That must be a Freudian slip if ever I saw one – it speaks volumes, surely, to be thinking of IPO proceeds as ‘revenue’ rather than a capital injection…
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:00
=====================
Thanks and I tend to concur.
From my reading of the situation they intend selling worthless shares in the private company to gullible naives.
It will be sold as a “share issue” and “similar to what Fergus did”.
People will be expected to buy that it worked for Celtic, Fergus made a profit, and the business was financially stabilised.
It will be comparing oranges and apples.
If and when Green and his backers walk away, they will basically say “we have put the business into the fans hands, now do what you want with it”.
Be careful what you wish for.
And also, both Rangers and the MSM play fast and loose with phrases like “holding company” already. They justify this by the notion of the thick working man not really understanding these terms, so they are not to be taken as their real meaning, just the common man’s understanding. So they will be happy using the phrase “share issue”.
I do sophistry as well as pedantry btw.
I presume that all of the Sevconians who hand over their hard earned, will do so, safe in the knowledge that their investment will be in the club
That means, in the (un)likely event of Sevco going bust, then their investment will be safe, as it will be in the club and not Sevco
Now how that pans out would be really funny 🙂
Lol, Murray reveals a lot when he said “the IPO will generate millions in additional revenue”‘ and presumably not in additional capital which is the true and sound reason for an IPO, at least for a viable business.
campsiejoe says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:12
LOL
That’s going to be an interesting concept they are buying into.
Pity the previous share issue didn’t work that way.
Oh wait, that was actually a share issue.
Maybe a way of finally nailing Traynor, Jackson and Keevins is for internet bampots to publicly and continuously bombard them with calls for them to warn Sevco fans about the impending theft of £500 from each one of them, for worthless shares. Force them to say where they stand. Should Sevco fans buy, or not?
A bit of a ‘damned if they do, damned if they dont’ scenario.
Which would be nice.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:00
‘…According to Green, the opportunity to buy shares will be restricted to the “Rangers Family”. That can only be done through a private share issue, whereby new shares (almost certainly non-voting shares) will be offered to selected individuals on a private treaty basis. …’
—-
I’m with you on the fact that Green’s language certainly suggested that it could not be an IPO that was planned.
But why is he paying over the odds for top-of-the range IPO advice from Cenkos ( who specialise in IPOs) and also needlessly paying for a NOMAD ( not required for private share issues) ?
Does he or Murray really know themselves what they’re trying to do ( other than maximise their own personal returns, of course)?
Danish Pastry says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 07:19
34 19 Rate This
Observer says:
Monday, October 8, 2012 at 22:14
26 0 Rate This
I suspect TSFM thinks I’m a bit of a pain/conspiracy theorist but the fact s/he let’s me stay on here is to the credit of the site.
—————
I’m not so sure it’s a credit to the site at all….
To read so many posts on this is embarrassing. If this blog is going to get hung up on every unclear audio snippet from sports programmes – that may or may not be saying one thing or the other – then I fear TSFM will become a laughing stock.
—————————————
All respect, mate, but it’s not actually true that there have been a great many posts on the Radio Clyde broadcast on this blog!
And in any case very few of them have been from me (I ‘ve posted the audio clip & my correspondence with Clyde for people to see), or from people who support what I’m doing. With the honourable exception of Brenda who posted in support, those who think I maybe onto summat simply give me a Thumbs Up!
If you look back, the majority of posts on this subject are people like yourself telling me to shut up & abandon my legitimate citizen’s complaint against Clyde, Jim Delahunt & Mark Guidi!
True dat – have a look back and you guys are more focused on this issue than I am. So if it is as you say “embarrassing” who is embarrassing whom?!?
I’m not saying that a Radio Clyde “Jack” has wheeled some tanks onto me lawn but I’m still curious that my quest for simple truth exercises you guys so much.
If I receive any more correspondence on this issue from Clyde or Ofcom I would hope TSFM would allow me to post it here in the public interest.
It’s just another element in our communal examination of the Glasgow MSM & I’m baffled you guys take such exception on this one…
doontheslope says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:22
Maybe a way of finally nailing Traynor, Jackson and Keevins is for internet bampots to publicly and continuously bombard them with calls for them to warn Sevco fans about the impending theft of £500 from each one of them, for worthless shares. Force them to say where they stand. Should Sevco fans buy, or not?
A bit of a ‘damned if they do, damned if they dont’ scenario.
Which would be nice.
==========================================================
They would just say that it was outwith their ken and above their pay grade to comment on financial investments.
A bit like horoscopes and obituaries!
If Malcolm had started that press release with “what they are saying is 99% crap” i might well have taken it a bit more seriously. I think i’ll just wait and see how things pan out over the next month or two.
“For the avoidance of doubt, there is no risk of the Club going into administration…”
– – – – – – – – – – – –
For the further avoidance of doubt, the COMPANY does carry a risk of going into administration.
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:33
========================
Agreed “I am a simple sports journalist, you are obsessed with Rangers’ finances, we should all just move on and talk about football. ”
Thing is, they will be doing the Rangers fans as big a dis-service as they have been for years. They will be complicit in businessmen fooling them yet again.
They helped Murray win them over.
They helped Whyte win them over.
They helped Green win them over.
What is it about the Sevco share issue that anyone would consider it as a viable option for a fan to invest in at the moment – if you were asked to give over £500 would you not want to have clarity (or at least some semblance of clarity) on the current financial status of the “entity” (club, company, whatever) ?
I’ve not seen anything of that nature published, and until certain hugely significant events have occurred (FTT, Dual Contract investigation, Liquidation status, to name but 3), and the small matter of the events of the last year, you’d have to be taking a huge leap of faith to even consider it…. its not making any sense to me whatsoever.
That’s even considering the emotional attachment to it… i.e. that its not an investment which you would hope to see a return on, you are investing into the club, and you trust the money will be used to assist in the development of the club in a proper manner. There needs to be clarity on this, signed up to and signed off on by all responsible for the club…… not clear is it ?
Good luck to all involved in this… you’re going to need it.
Chris
I dont think they will get away with that answer this time. Time for them to put up.
WELL, JABBA, SHOULD SEVCO FANS BUY £500 SHARES FROM MR GREEN?
Observer @ 20:31
😉
Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:53
===================================
Well it is so easy when you are dealing with a supremacist monoculture suffering from cofirmation bias.
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:06
==========================
It’s practically compulsory.
I heard the Sevco cut from the Stirling game was £4,000.00
Not A Lot as someone famous said.
john clarke says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 20:29
1 0 Rate This
I’m with you on the fact that Green’s language certainly suggested that it could not be an IPO that was planned.
But why is he paying over the odds for top-of-the range IPO advice from Cenkos ( who specialise in IPOs) and also needlessly paying for a NOMAD ( not required for private share issues) ?
=============
It’s not just Green’s language, but the timescale. These boys are clearly in a hurry, and are talking about this being done next month. I don’t think that an AIM listing is possible in that time.
Do we actually know that Green has engaged Cenkos on a fee-paying basis? I know Green has talked with them, but no more than that. Similarly with the Nominated Adviser. Has he actually engaged them? I have quickly trawled the internet, but I can’t find any mention of the formal appointment of advisers.
This is the problem with Green-just what to believe.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:15
=====================
Surely a public listing and offer would be impossible without accounts, a prospectus, full revelation of existing owners, a business plan etc.
As far as we know they don’t even have proper banking facilities.
I think sale of shares in the private company s the only real option just now.
However they paint it.
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:15
It’s not just Green’s language, but the timescale. These boys are clearly in a hurry, and are talking about this being done next month.
——————————-
Yep.
And before the Nimmo Smith Inquiry rules.
If I were a TRFC fan, this is what would concern me most: why the rush?
Question of FF – Are a set of accounts going to be produced showing the current rate of income and expenditure before this share issue happens?
First Answer – Full audited accounts will be published yes.
One wonders how the chap knows this, or on what basis he is saying it, or who the auditor is.
So…what if the bears actually start to query Charlie’s offer ?
There have been a few dissenting voices on RM so far.
What is the consensus of this site if the share offer/private sale is a total flop ?
Will TRFC survive the season ?
Apologies if this link has been posted
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2012/10/08/what-can-we-learn-from-the-financial-meltdown-of-glasgow-rangers-fc/
StevieBC says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:36
In my opinion, as stated before, there will not be enough money to survive the season, so additional funds are required.
That can come from additional sales (unlikely, they are already doing well), borrowing (that would be at high interest rates), sale of assets (but they can’t really replace them), or a share issue (however floatation and an IPO would be extremely difficult if not impossible).
Getting the fans to buy into the existing private company is the only realistic option in my view. It will not be an “investment” it will effectively be a donation. It will have to be sold as “The Fergus McCann model” to have any success. The MSM will probably support this, and once again help shaft the Rangers support.
So mote it be.
StevieBC says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:36
Some aspects of the support are quite admirable in a Charge of the Light Brigade sort of way. The private share issue will probably raise enough to keep the wolf from door. Murray’s Freudian revenue slip was really quite telling.
scapaflow14 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:41
========================
Even allowing for the original investors getting at least their money back?
Is it possible that there is a sense of, if not panic then, urgency regarding the “share” issue?
Could that explain why the “chairman”, having been anonymous for a few months, delivers an almost immediate riposte to the Forbes’ article ?
In my opinion, things are not going well in the Peepil’s Republic of Sevconia
campsiejoe says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:50
===========================
There’s a sense of, the season ticket money will only go so far
added to another of
If we get many more results like Stirling A then matchday sales will drop like a stone, as will any remaining feel good factor.
with a side serving of
We really can’t afford to get knocked out of the other two cups.
scapaflow14 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:41
I think so, timing is key. They need to get it done before dam bursts. Would submit the FTT result has already been heavily discounted and we can expect more of that. However, they won’t want to be trying this post LNS, hence the urgency
Agrajag says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:34
Question of FF – Are a set of accounts going to be produced showing the current rate of income and expenditure before this share issue happens?
First Answer – Full audited accounts will be published yes.
======================
Full audited accounts would include a balance sheet, which would establish once and for all whether Ibrox and Murray Park are owned by the company. For that reason alone, in my view, audited accounts will not be produced until Green & Co are safely out of harms way.
The balance sheet would also reveal how much is owed by the company to Green & Co. That debt will be repaid as a first priority once the shares are sold. In fact that’s why the big rush to shift the shares. I think Green wants out now- he’s had enough of Ally and SFL3. He came to Glasgow just to make money, he said. Just about the only Green statement I accept without any reservation whatsoever.
neepheid @ 21:57
The only supporting documentation for the “share” issue will be Charlie’s statements printed and repeated verbatim in the MSM, and the Sevco friendly forums
Joe very true. But, don’t you think the media types will have to be very careful not to fall foul of the FSA? They’re not exactly rocket scientists…..
Y’all appear to be a mite sceptical about this here ‘IPO’ business – but ‘pears to me it might just be the hottest doggone ‘sure thing’ since JIm Smiley’s Jumping Frog and you don’t need to take my word for it, neither. Here’s ol’ CG hisself lettin’ the cat right out of the bag in front of them good ol’ boys from the RST – and, in case you didn’t know it already, you’d have to get up pretty early to pull the wool over their eyes (agin):
“SHARE ISSUE
22,690,000 shares have already been issued – these are with the initial backers (consortium). IA estimates a further 22M+ in the next round. The minimum investment is 500 shares. IA was asked what price will one share cost? He explained that a bunch were traded at 50p early on, and more recently 1M where traded at £1. He estimates somewhere between £1-£1.50 per share, it will be finalised when the value of the club is established.
The Board was asked “What about people who can’t afford £500?” CG replied, they could wait until the first day of trading and go to a broker and do it that way, then they can invest in smaller chunks. The board decided on 500 as the bottom limit, as anything lower could be a challenge re:cost involved in the whole IPO process vs. actual share issue/capital raising. There would be an order of priority with the offer, in the first instance, current season ticket holders and old shareholders will be offered first dibs, then after that it would be open to the public.
A question was asked about RST/Gersave etc. and about ‘groups’ being allowed to buy shares on behalf of other. CG said that he had no objection to that, but it would be up to those inclined to do so to hand their money over to one individual. The priority rule would still apply.
All in all, using these new deals/strategies, CG believes over the next 5-10 years RFC can grow to become a global brand with an annual turnover of £100m through traditional means (merchandise/retail/match-day experience) plus another £100m in media rights through new technologies. RFC will have no debt, no liability and plenty of assets.”
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=240075
Now, you can call me ‘Mr Gullible’, but that kind o’ high-tone financial-speak is just about as convincing as anything you’re ever likely to hear around these parts; and I when I hear that ‘a bunch’ of these here shares doubled in value from 50p to 1£ in a matter of weeks and I can now buy them for ‘somewhere between’ £1-£1.50…well, heck, the sooner they get to ‘finalising’ the the value of that club, the sooner I can slap my £500-£750 on the table, is all I’m saying – and if y’all as smart as you think you are, why you’d be plumb crazy not to do likewise!
Observer
,I listened to the link you posted when you first heard it. I thought I heard exactly what you heard and I agree with your actions.
I am an avid reader of all the comments on this site and I marvel at how clever you all are.
Please don’t argue amongst yourselves.
I’ve had a great summer reading all about fiddling, lies and corruption. Every link posted I’ve explored. Some posts I’ve had to read more than once to understand. Still can’t get my head round all the abbreviations. I’ve made a list so I know who you are talking about.
My sixteen year old grandson thought he would never ever have a conversation with his old nana about Rangers (old or new). However I know the best is yet to come and I look forward to reading all your fantastic opinions, poems and ideas. Please keep up the good work.
StevieBC says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:36
What is the consensus of this site if the share offer/private sale is a total flop ?
Will TRFC survive the season ?
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Can anyone here speculate on the likely timetable of the IPO? CG indicates it will commence ‘later’ this month. Even if he pulled out all the stops he would still have to give the bears at least a month to arrange their payday loans and submit their applications. TRFC would then have to allow a further period of time for chase-up action and resolution of queries etc. I am sure this would take the whole exercise to the brink of Christmas. Hopefully by that time the dual contracts hearing will have been done and dusted.
I am convinced that before the Peepul have time to part with their hard earned dosh for this share issue, Green & Co will have been finally exposed for what they are – conmen. Therefore the reluctance to subscribe to Charlie Boy’s pension fund, coupled with the sudden shock of reality will probably deflate the supporters so much that they will lose their appetite for follow, following their heroes. I would not be surprised if the early winter attendance figures plunged and killed off any chance of survival till the end of the season.
scapaflow14 @ 22:10
Since in all probability it will not be a formal IPO, but more likely a private bargain, then the FSA will not be involved
This came up a few weeks ago, and someone posted a link to an FSA article, which from memory basically said, “you’re on your own” with this type of deal
neepheid says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:15
‘..This is the problem with Green-just what to believe…’
—
Indeed.And even after all this time I took the ‘Scotsman’s” report at face value!
To atone for that, I’ve just fired off an email to Cenkos ( info@cenkos.com)asking if they would be kind enough to confirm the report, and also clarify whether they were advising on an IPO or on a private offer of shares.
No harm in asking!
scapaflow14 says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 22:10
Joe very true. But, don’t you think the media types will have to be very careful not to fall foul of the FSA? They’re not exactly rocket scientists…..
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If this goes ahead as a private share sale, the FSA will not get involved. I posted this last week.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumerinformation/product_news/saving_investments/crowdfunding
There will be no compensation. Anyone who buys these shares, and then concludes that Green has misled them, better get themselves a good lawyer and try to sue him. But who is going to bother for £500.
I think the newspapers are safe enough, so long as they simply report what Green says, and don’t try a sales pitch.
This is all going to end in tears, that’s pretty certain. I’m even starting to feel sorry for the Rangers supporters, because Green is out to take them for every penny he can, by exploiting their blind loyalty all the way. He’s really not a very nice man.
Fozzy (@grantyfoster) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 15:27
Good afternoon and The Rangers June 30/2010 Financial Statements have no liability for Big Tax or even a Note disclosure (for a contingent liability). Is the professional opinion of Grant Thorton, auditors, who signed off on these financials, being disputed? E&O insurance?
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Fozzy…I posted last week, that whilst not being a fan of Grant Thornton, their role in these accounts, aka financial statements, is to pass an opinion as to the “true and fair view” shown in them. I can assure you that their backsides are well and truly covered here!
The finance director, Mr McIntyre, made a most circuitous and bland comment re the HMRC “enquiry” and its possible outcome, and under direct instructions from (-S)DM and the other directors, ignored any attempt to quantify matters, by way of contingent liability note or actual provision in the accounts.
What he/they omitted to say was that the amount under “enquiry” was £36 million and that the board, stuffed with CA’s but grossly influenced by (-S)DM, saw no reason to make any provision against the “enquiry”, now known as the “Big tax Case”.
These directors decided to “tough it out”, in the full knowledge that they simply could not settle any case found against them. In the meantime, (-S)DM embarked on a search to somehow dispose of the club/ company, but still control the outcome.
The Forbes ariticle is interesting. If anything I believe it presents an overly rosy picture of Rangers – overstates its fan base and its potential and yet even with the most optimistic figures it cannot be made to pay.
Green’s fleece em half a grand scheme will be the last act. After that it will be revealed that SEVCO 5088 ( the non football version) own Ibrox and Murray park and all T’ Rangers actually own is a squad of overpaid underperforming dumplings and an inept coaching team, coupled with a license somehow transferred to them from another defunct club to play football. Their only hope of survival will be yet another attempt at capital raising, some serious budget cutting and playing a team of youngsters as the pot to pay the squad and coaching team will be empty. The SEVCONIANS will waste their money by handing it over to Green, then find themselves having to raise the money again to pay the rent and the players to keep going.
Hahahahahahahahahaha…. Frankly.
Fools and theit money and all that.
Likeliest scenario I reckon – a total collapse – mid season ( and I don’t mean a transfer of their away form to Ibrox – though that may come) leading to extinction.
Considering the reported timescale for the share issue (before the conclusion of the dual contract investigation) – does this signal that CG and co believe that players were registered illegally and that it is likely that titles will be stripped? Is CG desperate for the share issue while many of the fans are on a (defiant) high?
abigboydiditandranaway says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 19:20
Fozzy (@grantyfoster) says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 16:58
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I take it from the way you write the date you are a yank?
——-
How do you arrive at that conclusion? Look at the date under everyone’s name on every post …
And besides, even if he was American (as you assume in a later post) he could be from the southern states and therefore not a “yank” at all.
Yours Faithfully,
Angus (Forensic Terminologist, Aberdeen Grammar Police)
Observer says:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012 at 21:33
‘..And before the Nimmo Smith Inquiry rules.
If I were a TRFC fan, this is what would concern me most: why the rush?’
—Agreed.
( and, quietly between you and me: Guidi said ‘I hope’.
And I think it very much would be a sackable offence, and possibly a criminal offence, if any person on a licensed radio station were to utter any such encouragement to public disorder. You are not to be faulted for trying to establish the truth.
neepheid @ 22:31
Thanks, that’s the one I was thinking of