We spend an inordinate amount of time on this blog arguing about what the re-emergent Rangers should be called. It is a rather circular debate with no way of finding any consensus. The dispute between Rangers (“The Rangerists”) or The Rangers or Sevco (“The Sevconians”) and its claim to be the club that was formed in the 19th century is spurious. Whichever way you look at it, the continuity of the “brand” is undeniable and as long those who wish to keep buying that package are satisfied that the wrapping is authentic – where’s the harm?
The red herring in the argument is that “history” is important. To the average football fan, it is nothing of the kind. As a Celtic fan myself, and a bit of a student of the history of the club, I am constantly dismayed by the Thousand Yard Stare I get from your average Celtic fan who is confronted with the names of people who contributed significantly to the club’s identity. Key figures like Sandy McMahon, Jimmy Delaney, Jimmy McGrory and (God help us) John Thomson rarely elicit recognition.
Modern football fans who live in the instant gratification society of the the WWW and mobile communications may pay lip service to their clubs’ history, but that’s not what gives the modern football fan wears as his badge of honour. That is a commodity often erroneously confused with history – the bragging rights associated with the trophy haul.
The ability to claim that “we have more titles than you” is far more valuable to a supporter than which 19th century attacking centre-back won the Scottish Cup with a last minute header; and the value of said cup wins is heavily weighted in favour of the most recent (save for the honourable exception of the European successes).
The maintenance of that illusion of superiority is crucial if Rangers fans are to believe that their club is still Rangers. Perhaps in time they may even come to fully believe it themselves, but the cataract of column inches devoted to propagating that myth, both from the MSM and from information outlets controlled by Charles Green’s organisation, betrays a lack of total belief by the chief Bear-existentialists. Protesting too much may not be subtle, but that never put off your average fitba’ man either.
The upshot though is this. There is a belief – or at least a hope – amongst Rangerists that the continuity argument holds. They will call the new club Rangers. Fans of other clubs who make up the vast majority of the Sevconian tendency, believe nothing of the kind. They will call it something else.
Many will remind Rangerists that the old club died, and this is factually correct (or at least will be very soon). Rangerists will counter that the Rangers ethos lives on at Ibrox, and despite the worrying overtones (for some) contained in that statement, that is also factually correct.
Rangerists will also point out, as Rangers fans on this blog already have, that the SPL bent over backwards to assist the continuity of the club in order to minimise the financial consequences for Scottish football, and that the SFL too, have agreed that they are the same club.
Why? Simply because Scottish Football thinks it needs to help perpetrate they illusion of continuity to avoid the loss of thousands of paying customers to the game altogether.
So round one has gone to the Rangerists, with the Sevconians pretty much taking an eight-count.
So is the name thing important? I don’t think it is of critical importance. The name in itself doesn’t matter, but to merely agree that everything is as before is to join forces with the MSM, SFA & SPL who have sought to give RFC and their tax theft a pass.
Whatever happens in the future though, the illusion hasn’t worked completely. The Sevconians’ wish to call the new club by a different name was for the purpose of making it synonymous with tax evasion, however the name Rangers now evokes exactly that response. There is now a discernible pause when people mention Rangers. A pause that reflects on the dis-service they did to the country, and to the game of football in Scotland.
Which brings us to the really important point. Throughout this saga rules have been bent. Conflicted individuals, alleged to have been involved in the tax and registration scam and its subsequent cover-up, have remained in positions of authority and power, despite being under a cloud throughout. The media have been complicit, except in rare cases, in allowing the wrong-doing to go unquestioned, actively campaigning for rules not to be applied.
What we have been saying all along is this. Please play the game by the rules, and do not manufacture special cases for the financially powerful.
Call Rangers whatever you wish, but deal with their transgressions appropriately in the spirit of sporting fairness, and within the framework of the existing rules. That is the least – and most – we expect. We don’t ask for much. Just give us back some pride in our sport .
scottc says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:27
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twopanda says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 16:50
Thanks to link from jc http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/rolls/
supreme/index.asp
Looks like LH schedule full up to Friday 11.30am – seems to have a
clear afternoon
Oh to be a fly on the wall!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lord and Lady Hodge are off for the weekend in the caravan at
Berwick on Friday afternoon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shirley the ankle monitor will go off at the border?
readcelt says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:16
Does anyone know if The Rangers have managed to get banking facilities up and running yet?
I was thinking about this and the ‘who owns Ibrox’ question.
Now, if sevco Scotland own Ibrox and Murray park and sevco 5088 everything else, it would make sense that sevco ‘The Rangers’ 5088 don’t have banking facilities or an overdraft. They have no collateral on which to secure a loan or overdraft, apart from season ticket money and other lesser revenue streams.
Does that make sense or have I added up 2 and 2 and got 5?
__________________________________________________________________________
I’d think(with no knowledge of the legalities) that you’ve got it the wrong way round.Sevco5088,registered in England and maybe making the Ticketus deal legal,own the properties.
Sevco Scotland own an intangible company(club) whose assets are players,staff etc.They’ll be renting Ibrox from Sevco 5088.
Question is,what Sevco is CG selling shares in.
Another thought:
Did the staff TUPE to Sevco5088.I assume so.Have they now TUPED again to Sevco Scotland?.
If not.who do they work for?.
CG says wages are down to £6m.Could this be because players are contracted to Sevco Scotland but ancilllary staff(nearly 200) TUPED over to Sevco5088 and are still there?,
I don’t know how this would affect finances but I’m sure some on here could make a calculated guess.
VBs in that link complaining that some of the language used in Twitter exchanges might be against the law..
Oh the irony, from the righteously indignant, easily offended.
Patrick McLaughlin* @Wheresyerfridge
@rangerstaxcase can BDO chase ex players for repayment of the loans? #curious
36m Rangers Tax-Case Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@Wheresyerfridge No. Money was borrowed from the trust not from RFC- but HMRC could chase EBT recipients for unpaid taxes.
26m Barcabhoy Barcabhoy @Barcabhoy1
@rangerstaxcase @Wheresyerfridge I wonder, would HMRC do a deal with a whistleblower ?
tsfm
If this site is to be taken seriously as the spiritual successor of rtc, it needs to deal with trojan interlopers who hijack the agenda. Many serious posters have commented over the past day or so saying it needs to stop. Others (JC you are old enough to know better) seem happy to be drawn in to the trap. We are now expected to consider what form of old or new celtic sensibility is contained in I hope.
We all laugh at media house but this wheeze seems to have been brilliantly successful.
ScottC
“Lord and Lady Hodge are off for the weekend in the caravan at Berwick for the weekend.”
———————————————
Vanguard Bears reporting that a senior official at Berwick Camping and Caravan Park is being investigated by the police for posting on TSFM.
Observer says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:22
I’m a Hoops fan but there is a bit of a bullying, “old Celtic” group mentality here: my main crime seems to be not that I attacked a MSM journalist but one who is “a Celtic man”. To younger Hoops fans that mentality is dying.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So, we are now old Celtic school bully’s, brilliant! Can I remind you nobody accussed you of lying that I am aware of and I certainly made the clear. If Mr G was the Grand Master of The Orange Lodge in Scotland I would not have viewed this any differently on what I heard and read.
I’m intrigued re the mentality that’s dying can you expand on that please I’d love to hear about this new breed of Celtic fan, honest, no joking.
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 12:55
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allyjambo says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 09:43
‘.Hope that clears that up, John, and you can re-read my post and let me know if you think what I said holds water’
—
Certainly does, AJ. My own use of language wasn’t as precise as it ought to have been.Sorry about seeming to imply that you personally might have blanketing all foreigners as being without sense of right and wrong!
_______________________________________________________________
No need to appologise, John, I’m actually glad you let me know how you’d read it, it gave me the opportunity to clarify my meaning for any others who might have taken it the same way. Like you I think it’s very important we keep this blog ‘clean’ of all bogited or xenophobic posts, as to do otherwise lessens the impact we can have.
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:55
ScottC
“Lord and Lady Hodge are off for the weekend in the caravan at Berwick for the weekend.”
———————————————
Vanguard Bears reporting that a senior official at Berwick Camping and Caravan Park is being investigated by the police for posting on TSFM.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s a fair cop, guvnor. 🙂
Observer says: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 17:41
http://usada.org/
USADA going to issue its full findings on Lance Armstrong on this site this evening.
Will this go down in history as “Anti-Doping Week”?
=========================================
You raise an important issue which is not without parallels in Scootish football.
Armstrong (and cycling) is in the process of being brought to its knees by the whistleblowers amongst his former team mates, but what I find more interesting is that cycling’s governing body UCI has yet to acknowledge their failings during the Armstrong years. Indeed it has also been suggested that officials in UCI were actually complicit in that they clearly knew that doping was widespread and actually covered up positive tests among some of the elite competitors in a vain attempt to protect the sport.
In the EBT debacle we only have Hugh Adam as a whistleblower. The players and officials have generally closed ranks and either refused to comment or pedalled the line that EBTs were legal. Ideally if some player with a conscience was to admit to knowing that the deal they had was illegal or against football’s rules then the whole house of cards would rapidly collapse.
The behaviour of certain officials among the SFA and SPL looks very similar to that of UCI, clearly having the knowlege that something was wrong, but doing their damndest to ensure that the truth doesn’t come out and that their own positions are protected.
We can only hope the Lord Nimmo Smith’s investiagation produces a report that emulates that of the USADA.
It’s a conspiracy, I say ……. I say it’s a conspiracy. 🙂
Perrywhyte.
I had never heard the term gonzo journalism before so i looked it up and learned something new.
Cheers.
For anyone who’s interested:
http://maleysbhoys.com/2012/10/10/the-a-z-of-why-theyre-still-dead/
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:55
====================================================================
Gullane Bents, Shirley?
SouthernExile says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:53
‘. (JC you are old enough to know better).’
—–
Generally, yes.
But there was the evidence of my own ears as to what MK said ( unless the tape was doctored), and, it seemed to me, a certain too-readiness to gloss over it in a way that Sally’s or Bomber’s remarks were not lightly dismissed.
If the whole thing was/is a trolling exercise, then I’m afraid I missed it! And would be sorry to have helped prolong it.
But you would surely agree that if a broadcaster is numpty enough to be so careless in his use of language as to give people the wrong idea of what he says, it would be right for him to be challenged.
At least, that would be my view, whoever the broadcaster was.
Gullane Bents Shirley?
————————————
I have heard Lady Hodge referred to by that name by the locals who know her well, but I think they are only kidding.
SouthernExile says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:53
I fear your ire is misdirected, SE.
Tedious as some of us are finding the Guidi thing, the problem is that in a series of blog comments all jumbled up together, everyone has to read, or at least skim over them.
The problem is that this is not a messageboard that can separate topics like Guidi into their own thread, to be ignored or thrashed to death depending on your interest in the subject.
doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:26
===================================================================
You paint a lovely scene, slope – a wee visit to the beach, round of gowf, bag of chips
and a spot of dogging in the car park after dark. How the other half live!
The Guidi issue is actually spoiling the site at the moment. Some people find it relevant, some don’t. Everyone who had/has an opinion on it has expressed that opinion several times over. But there is nothing else to say on it at the moment.
Nothing new has happened and until it does, such as a response from SSB being posted by Observer or someone else then there is surely nowhere else to go with it. I really hope a line is drawn under this for the moment because many posters are not happy with the way it is detracting from the Blog.
I feel bad posting this comment because I am absolutely not saying that it is any less relevant to my own opinions, it is just I believe it has been discussed inside out and it is not going to progress until something new happens.
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:20
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SouthernExile says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:53
‘. (JC you are old enough to know better).’
—–
Generally, yes.
———————–
John
I hope I didn’t cause any offence.
I’ll always remember your “as I look out from my desk to where the pentlands would be if it wasn’t for the dreich” in response to corsica’s latest paen from his highland idyll. Little did we know. Wish he was with us now.
SE
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:53
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doontheslope says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:26
================================================
You paint a lovely scene, slope – a wee visit to the beach, round of gowf, bag of chips and a spot of dogging in the car park after dark. How the other half live!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And to think I wasted all that time running up and down Murder Hill! 🙁
SouthernExile says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 19:53(Edit)
tsfm
If this site is to be taken seriously as the spiritual successor of rtc, it needs to deal with trojan interlopers who hijack the agenda. Many serious posters have commented over the past day or so saying it needs to stop. Others (JC you are old enough to know better) seem happy to be drawn in to the trap. We are now expected to consider what form of old or new celtic sensibility is contained in I hope.
We all laugh at media house but this wheeze seems to have been brilliantly successful.
________________________________________________________________________
I think it has been successful to a large extent. The kind of systematic low-level disruption which has been a feature of the latest stuff from the Trolls is difficult to cut out by moderation. We have been watching the IP addresses of posters who fall into that category and the tactic being used is that they are actually holding conversations (“argumentative ones”)with themselves!
That is a bit easier to deal with and we have suspended those people’s posting rights.
We may have to look at disallowing Twitter logins, because there seems to be a few of those, and the fact that they don’t have to register emails is appealing for a troll.
As you say though, the biggest problem is that people just can’t help themselves. People just get waded in with trolls, blissfully unaware that they are being played like a fiddle. One particularly insidious member of the Troll brigade last week was ignore wonderfully for a whole day, but eventually people rose to the bait.
If it doesn’t get any better we may have to wield the moderator’s knife a bit more often. Trouble is, it gives grist to the mill of those who want to discredit us if TSFM is “censoring”.
For the record, I don’t think that Observer was trolling at all with the Guidi thing. Perfectly valid – and apparently vindicated – line of inquiry.
.. and if you’ve read Stan Petrov’s biog, ghosted by MG, you’d believe almost anything that involved an assault on the English language. He doesn’t go big on communicating his ideas and thoughts effectively 🙂
ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:56
If I am one of the guilty party I apologise. I and others for the most part have tried to draw the matter to a close but thurs aye somebody wants the last word 🙂
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:59
—————————————————————————
Careful, LW – you’re giving your age away now.
Briggsbhoy: It isn’t individuals, and no need to apologise! As an outsider looking in at the debate it just seems to be going around in circles, those posting probably don’t feel that is the case. All I am saying is personally it is taking the shine off the Blog at the moment. Also it is taking up the time of some excellent posters such as yourself an Observer. I enjoy reading the opinions and comments of people such as yourself on differentiating subjects.
the Bold Giovanni self proclaimed brief to Auld Nick is predicting a league shakeup after Christmas, it is a very sloooow news day
SouthernExile says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:58
‘John
I hope I didn’t cause any offence. .’
—
None whatsoever, I assure you! And I reciprocate that hope. 🙂
Eh, I’ve just done a daft thing. I was on the UEFA site a few minutes ago and noticed there was a facility to switch languages and the site will remember your choice. So, out of curiosity, I clicked the ‘Chinese’ icon and pressed OK.
Now I canny get the English back!
Any ideas, anybody?
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:12
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Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:59
—————————————————————————
Careful, LW – you’re giving your age away now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MH = two steps forward and three steps back
MH = Murder Hill or Media House? You decide.
Today and yesterday I couldn’t access the RM forum.
When trying again today I am now getting the message from a prescient Google;
“Warning – visiting this web site may harm your computer!”
[Malware warning.]
Is it just me, or is anyone else having the same problem ?
StevieBC says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:33
Same here
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:30
Now I canny get the English back!
Any ideas, anybody?
————
JC, first thing I’d try is deleting all UEFA cookies from your computer. And maybe delete your browser’s “cache”–not sure if that’s as effective, but I don’t think it will do any harm.
It appears RM may be infested with a virus, metaphorically and physically speaking
Safe Browsing
Diagnostic page for rangersmedia.co.uk
What is the current listing status for rangersmedia.co.uk?
Site is listed as suspicious – visiting this web site may harm your computer.
Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 2 time(s) over the past 90 days.
What happened when Google visited this site?
Of the 77 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 28 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2012-10-10, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2012-10-10.
Malicious software is hosted on 1 domain(s), including jbk49.com/.
1 domain(s) appear to be functioning as intermediaries for distributing malware to visitors of this site, including fenwaywest.com/.
This site was hosted on 2 network(s) including AS174 (COGENT), AS15169 (Google Internet Backbone).
Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of malware?
Over the past 90 days, rangersmedia.co.uk did not appear to function as an intermediary for the infection of any sites.
Has this site hosted malware?
Yes, this site has hosted malicious software over the past 90 days. It infected 1 domain(s), including rangersmedia.com/.
How did this happen?
In some cases, third parties can add malicious code to legitimate sites, which would cause us to show the warning message.
scapaflow14 says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:44
0 0 Rate This
It appears RM may be infested with a virus, metaphorically and
physically speaking
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OMG. It’s must be that timmy conspiracy I’ve heard so much about!
steveplustax says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:40
—
Thanks,spt.
I went in again to the site and noticed I hadn’t actually scrolled to the bottom of the page.(All in Chinese so I had no idea where the text ended). When I got to the bottom the wee boxes were there for clicking on your choice. And voila, the English text came back!
I went in originally to check out Futsal, about which I knew not very much.
twopanda says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 16:50
Looks like LH schedule full up to Friday 11.30am – seems to have a clear afternoon
Oh to be a fly on the wall!
_______
Perhaps there`s a few possibilities – all the admins have stated is that they`ll lodge papers after the creditors noon vote on Friday. As far as we`re concerned, Friday afternoon or thereafter just may be some kind of straightforward assent process to transfer Court Authority to HMRCs Nominated Liquidator. Probably simple if all pre-discussed. But that may include sanctioning remunerations vote to the admins and whether everyone content.
There is the COI matter which we have not received a peep of information for what now 16 weeks by Friday, or 4 months and not a word. Before assent, who knows? There may need /or has been?/ to be a briefing with the BBC beforehand or not re potential further action. LH and his team [I presume he has back up] may have residual questions on the conduct of the administration, goodness knows there`s been enough voices and opinions posted on that.
LH may get BDO on the case to HMRCs wishes but given some form of interim liquidator mandate maintaining a transition period with the admins till any snags are worked out. Maybe it`s not as cut and dried as we may think..
I don`t know. I`m probably getting way ahead of myself here, some sort of new word-fatigue, but; Got a funny feeling we may not hear anything on Friday afternoon or not the whole story and there`s bound to be questions. I don`t even know if LH needs only a routine standard statement or required that more detail given on this type of thing.
Was kinda hoping any insolvency boffins on here may shed a light on their take of events.
The under-17s stake their claim for a place in the first XI.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/item/2402-glasgow-cup#.UHXfOaP0pFg.twitter
I’m sue someonme has asked this, but when murray says they reduced the wage bill by £14m, was that gross or net?
;o)
ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:56
The Guidi issue is actually spoiling the site at the moment. … But there is nothing else to say on it at the moment.
——
I don’t think it spoiled the site. It gave an insight into what’s possible when every hum and ha of broadcast chats are scrutinised. It showed how far people are willing to take things, even when those things are inconsequential (NB there have been no consequences, so it was inconsequential).
If I were a radio chap, I’d be very careful whenever I opened my mouth on the subject of TRFC. Either that, or I’d make sure to speak VERY clearly. 😉
john clarke says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:30
JC, if you look at the bottom of the page you are on, there is an option to switch back to English 😉
jockybhoy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:12
I’m sue someonme has asked this …
——
Hi, Sue!
If CG is asking RFC(IA) fans to stump up a minimum £500 for shares in the very near future, has he factored in that the final season ticket instalment is due on 31st Oct? If a family of 2 adults and 2 kids bought their tickets this way then thats approx £160 being billed at the end of this month and xmas is just around the corner.
Do the kids get a share certificate or a pillow case full of lego bricks?
Rock and a hard place anyone?
angus1983 says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:20
Have you apologised ?
I think people are concentrating too much on the players’ wage bill. That was clearly always going to drop dramatically with so many walking away for free. That was a particularly mad move by D&P. They saved something like £5m on wages, but at the same time wiped about £15m off the asset value. They must have known they were doing this, as the players had the amendments made to their contracts to say they could leave for way reduced fees, and in liquidation clearly their contract was effectively null and void. They walked away for nothing.*
However, and my actual point, what has actually been done to reduce the other costs. That was something like £15m, not including any salaries, so how has that been reduced. That’s things like upkeep of Ibrox / Murray Park, Police and Stewarding, Utilities Costs, Insurances, etc. How exactly have those been cut and by how much.
It’s all very well The CEO, The Chairman, the media lackies repeatedly telling everyone that the wage bill has been cut to £6m (I suspect that is players only, if it’s true at all) but how have they cut other costs and by how much. Have they been able to half them. Good trick if they managed to do it and keep the same stadium, same training ground, similar number of paying customers at games etc.
It is simply not a viable business without a cash injection. Anyone saying it is simply isn’t addressing the issues, not even medium term never mind long term.
(*Subsidiary point, had Charles Green been able to sell a few players contracts, even at a reduced fee, he could have recovered the initial investment before a ball was kicked. He could have got all of Rangers, all of their assets for squat. If he was then playing in the SPL, even with a much weakened team and getting to mid table, job’s a good ‘un. Neither happened.)
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:32
———————————————————————————————————–
I’m not in Jack’s ‘lost’ little black book so it’s of no consequence to me, LW. I take each
post on it’s own merit…no matter the source. It doesn’t take long to x-ref and find the trolls.
I do think we need a few more contrary voices, though, but the quality of their output is so poor
as to be nothing more than philibustering.
If I was one of Jack’s clients, be it from Charlotte Square or the Cayman Islands, I would be looking for a refund, unless of course it was time that they were buying. That was the whole point of the FTT appeal. (-S)DM would have been out of jail by now if he’d been honest with himself, never mind anybody else. The game is up. For them all. It’s a shame they had to destroy the game we all love with a passion.
Not only did he steal £20 for every man, woman and child in the Country…he stole the good name of Scottish football, from their long-ball-park-the-bus in Europe and cheating thuggery on the pitch, to their sacking and pillaging of cities like Manchester and Bucharest, to Nazi salutes
in Israel, to racist assaults in their own streets.
Murray and Irvine have lined their pockets on the back of this abhorration, whilst the ‘fearless’ fourth aided and abetted. They are all guilty and will be found guilty in due course. I for one will rejoice at their demise. Such is their upside-down, inside-out gravity defying logic, that makes me a bigot.
Scotland will be a better place without them. We really don’t need that kind of filthy money through the turnstiles.
Did the SFA ever come out with said statement that was imminent or have I missed that coz I was to tied up in Guidigate. If so what did it reveal?
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:38
So you don’t like them then eh! I think it came across 🙂
A wee reminder….and a question
http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=234:rangers-tax-case-blog-contributors-exposed
“Despite the fact that many anti-Rangers journalists are free to go about their business without fear or favour…”
Really? Name one.
“…the RTC blog has remained shrouded under a veil of secrecy.”
Are you surprised? If commentators who remarked upon Rangers decade(+) of cheating were allowed to do so without fear or favour, I could take your point. But you and I (and various police forces) know that what you suggest is simply nonsense.
But you bash on. The more you concentrate on the innocent parties, the more the guilty so-called Rangers fans can go about destroying both your old and new clubs with impunity.
Don’t say you weren’t warned.
But then you didn’t listen last time, so why should I expect you to listen now.
jockybhoy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:12
I’m sure someone has asked this, but when murray says they reduced the wage bill by £14m, was that gross or net?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nah Nah Nah
What he means is that Sevco are pocketing the PAYE and NI just like Craig Whyte did last season
That`s guaranteed to knock £14m off the wage bill and the worse that can happen is a daft fine you dont need to pay
From the current SFA Articles of association.
From previous SFA Articles.- written circa 2000
I’ve always thought that the last sentence in the current Article 14:
“Any other application for transfer of membership will be reviewed by the Board, which will have complete discretion to reject or to grant such application on such terms and conditions as the Board may think fit.”, did not sit well in the context of the heading: “Prohibition On Transfer Of Membership”.
How, on one hand, can the Article use a header with the absolutely definite words “Prohibition on Transfer”, and, under the same heading, say “other application for transfer of membership will be reviewed by the Board…”
It makes no sense at all.
It does seem, does it not, that this change of meaning in the articles, was specifically designed to allow (for the first time) a club membership to be transferred in the case of insolvency. That is, to be transferred to another legal entity – thereby creating a new club from the ruins of bankruptcy.
I’m pretty sure that the option of transferring SFA membership was not open to the administrators of Airdrieonians when Clydebank FC changed their name to Airdrie Utd in 2002, so the rule change must have happened after that time.
What circumstances were foreseen that it was considered prudent to create this new bankruptcy escape clause? Which member did they have in mind – and why?
Who, in such position of authority would have had the influence to insert such a controversial change? What or who could have incentivised that person to push this through?
It is absolutely clear that without this radical change, Sevco could not have been granted full SFA membership – and they certainly would not have been given the same membership number as the previous club to operate the Rangers FC brand.
Funny that!
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:38
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Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 21:32
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I’m not in Jack’s ‘lost’ little black book so it’s of no consequence to me, LW.
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Not for a moment was I suggesting that you were. I was simply indulging myself with a wee play on words and the analogy of Media House and Murder Hill. Maybe its just the painful memories of getting to ‘The Hill’ first. Sometimes I wish I’d let Rangers win that particular race.
Perhaps if they’d cared enough, they would have.
As is usual with Sevco statements, you seem to be given their edited version of the truth
The £6 million wage bill is one such example
I don’t believe for a minute that this is the total wage bill for the organisation, however it is possible that this is the wage bill for the playing staff only, but even then I have my doubts
Those who did TUPE over, like elbows, Wallace and Alexander, will cost I would think somewhere in the region of £1.5 million a year, perhaps more
That leaves £4.5 million to be divided amongst another 30/40 players giving an average of £110k to £130k per week
Anything is possible I suppose, so the £6 million could be for playing staff only
However what about the managerial staff, and all of the others needed to keep this organisation functioning
There is no way that their salaries can be included in the £6 million figure, when you consider that McCoist alone is reportedly on £20k per week
Even if you allow a lowish £15k per year for say 80 ancillary staff excluding the football backroom team, that’s another £1.2 million
So in my hypothetical world you have £6 million + £1.2 million + say £1.5 million for McCoist and co giving a total of around £8.7 million, before you start to look at all of the fixed costs
Sevco cannot survive on its present income alone, and it needs some serious funds injected, and soon
It is little wonder that Charlie is beating the drum very loudly, and Murray is sending out the message that all is well in Sevconia
Sorry if this is a bit long winded and rambling, but we should keeping a close eye on their finances
No End of days this week then….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19904760?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
scapaflow14 @ 23:20
Donkey raising his head above the parapet, almost guarantees a shit storm heading our way
Reasonably quiet night.
So I fired off an email to Gavin McCafferty of the ‘Scotsman’, as follows:
“For the attention of Gavin McCafferty
I refer to your report in today’s paper of Malcolm Murray’s (Chairman of ‘The Rangers Ltd FC’) statement in rebuttal of the observations made by John Pritchett in his article in Forbes magazine.
In his statement, Murray says “We have already secured significant investment in the club from the individuals and organisations who are part of our consortium and the successful IPO (initial public offering) later this month will generate many millions in additional revenue.” ( My underlining).
It is by no means certain , in fact, it is most unlikely, that there will be an IPO at all, and certainly not this month.
Murray knows that Cenkos was hired to advise on the raising of capital, not expressly to construct an IPO and seek admission to AIM.
Charles Green was careful to say no more than that a number of alternatives, among which might be a possible IPO, were being considered.
I believe that a serious question should have been put to Murray: was he trying to con the Rangers’ fan-base into buying shares by positively stating that there would be an IPO, while knowing that, in the time frame in which the club is working, there would be no real possibility of getting an IPO up and running before January/February, and that all that would be on offer would be a “private to the ‘Rangers’ family’ only” share offering?
I suggest you have a word with your business editor- he/she will keep you right- and challenge Murray on this issue.
As Chairman he seems to be off-message with his CEO-and therefore incompetent- or to be speaking with forked-tongue.
Go on, be a real journalist, Gavin, not a PR man!
And good luck.
John Clarke
ordinaryfan says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 20:56
Nothing new has happened and until it does, such as a response from SSB being posted by Observer or someone else then there is surely nowhere else to go with it.
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Quite right. Actually Iceman posted the same early this afternoon & I agreed with him. Don’t understand why it’s all rumbled on today…
While we’re waiting for FTT Friday, though, and a little OT: I noted, ordinary fan, from yr earlier posts that you are an Islington Tim (as I was most my life!)
Is it true, as I’m hearing, that Corley’s pub on the Essex Rd has been demolished for posh flats???
I had some great Celtic nights in that boozer.
EDIT: I had some Celtic nights in that boozer.
campsiejoe says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:23
Aye Joe, get the wellies and the sou’westers out
campsiejoe says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:17
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Agreed, Joe.
With these chaps it’s oft times what is not said which is the important thing. What they are not discussing that is the real issue.
How much have you reduced overheads, not just players wages. Are your total costs less than your total income, and if not how do you propose making up the difference. With the business model you have the money simply has to come from somewhere, or do you have an overdraft in place.
This is all basic stuff, and it is ignored by the press, they are happier simply being the vehicles for misleading press releases. A meaningless headline is so much easier and safer than asking The CEO or Chairman those basic questions.
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:45
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No, I don’t but as you know briggsboy – that makes me a bigot!
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:04
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A mis-understanding on my part, LW. Apologies.
Now that you’ve mentioned it though, despite being a regular visitor to Gullane
over the years (before dark!) I’ve never tried to conquer Murder Hill. I shall attempt
it in your honour next time.
goosygoosy says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:50
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Gooseygoosey…are you the author of the “Murray and the Old Folks Home” piece?
I could do handle a wee re-write and re-post if you are.
scapaflow14 says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:20
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No End of days this week then….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19904760?
utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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It is somewhat ironic, given the predictions of Armageddon, that the only people that haven’t adapted to Rangers demise are certain sections of the Rangers support. Specifically those groups of Rangers fans that are supposedly looking after the fans interests.
It is even more ironic (please forgive me if I repeat myself) that it is largely Celtic fans that tried to warn them. And still they would rather waste time tracing the Celtic fans that tried to warn them, rather than concentrating on the Rangers custodians that killed their club.
twopanda says:
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 22:01
‘… all the admins have stated is that they`ll lodge papers after the creditors noon vote on Friday. ‘
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And, I think, that’s all that will happen-lodging their request.
A hearing/calling date will have to be arranged, at LH’s discretion.
And I think he will have to consider the ‘application to end Administration’ in the context of his judgment on the COI issue.
So, perhaps and frustratingly, whatever is going to happen on those fronts is probably not going to happen this Friday!
At least, I doubt whether the fact that D&P intimated that they would make their request on Friday means that LH would obediently have put that in his diary and keep Friday afternoon free for them!
They’ll have to wait until his Lordship is ready: and he might ( like a sensible chap) hang on until the FTTT decision is made public ( and he will have had, and could not have, any influence on that date).
So, we grin and bear it.It’s the waiting.. the waiting….’ the law’s long delay’ ( Shakespeare, Essexbc?) 🙂
angus1983: I didn’t say it wasn’t important, all I was saying is it has been discussed and scrutinised enough on here IMO.
RM back up and working for me…..unless I need to update my Malware software?…lol
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:37
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:04
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A mis-understanding on my part, LW. Apologies.
Now that you’ve mentioned it though, despite being a regular
visitor to Gullane over the years (before dark!) I’ve never tried to conquer Murder Hill. I shall attempt it in your honour next time.
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You have to do it right though. Run up half way at full speed. Run back down. Run back up two thirds of the way. Run back down. Run all the way to the top and back down again.
Oh. Did I mention that you need to run the length of Gullane Beach first (including stops for various exercises…squat thrusts, burpees, shuttle runs around the sand dunes). Then tackle Murder Hill. Repeatedly.
Think of me when you’re emptying your tea onto the sand. 😀
Observer: I don’t know it, I’m from Kentish Town, not far. The Sheephaven Pub or The Cock Tavernin Camden are good for a game and Kilburn has a few good Tim Pubs. There are genuinely a lot of Tims in London! (I have 3 little London Tims myself, lol)
Parallels between the Unites States Anti Doping Agency and the upcoming FTT Tribunal and LNS Inquiry are becoming uncanny.
On USADA’s site tonight (and this is only prelim stuff, the hardcore is yet to come, hopefully tonight):
http://www.usada.org/cyclinginvestigationstatement.html
What instantly leaps out from that page is:
“Lance Armstrong was given the same opportunity to come forward and be part of the solution. He rejected it.”
Hmm…
Unites = United
OOPS!
Just to say, I know where Islington is, just don’t know the Bar you were talking about!
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:37
Gooseygoosey…are you the author of the “Murray and the Old Folks Home” piece?
I could do handle a wee re-write and re-post if you are.
……………
Yep
Thats me
I was on the pop at the time as far as I remember
parmahamster says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 15:21
26 6 Rate This
raycharlez says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 14:53
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Defence of MSM member? Check.
Gratuitous mention of Celtic Boys’ Club? Check.
MH troller? What do you think, peeps?
Thanks for that parmahamster.
If you look back you will see I was one of the first posters on the RTC site – RayCharles.
First page, I believe.
I have been here ever since.
I particularly remember being personally chastised by RTC on that infamous night when many of us thought he had been hacked.
If I am an undercover agent then I am as deep as they come.
Do you honestly think I have been posting on every RTC post since March 2011 just so that I can finally out myself by defending Mark Guidi?
As it is, my wife went to school with Guidi.
I know his background and his orientation.
He played for Celtic Boys Club and later joined St Mirren.
He wrote Stilian Petrov’s book.
As I pointed out to Observer, who seems to have it in for Guidi, the guy is a Celtic man through and through.
Observer says this doesn’t matter as the words speak for themselves.
I firmly disagree.
If you are aware that he is a Celtic -supporting journalist then that helps contextualise what he said.
I asked Observer why a Celtic man would want to incite Rangers fans to violence over stripped titles.
He gave me no coherent explanation for Guidi’s motivation.
He just said it doesn’t matter.
I believe it does.
If the SPL strip Rangers of titles Guidi will p*** himself laughing when he gets in the hoose.
I offered an explanation as to why the journalist side of Guidi would hope it would all “kick off”.
I stated it was possible that Guidi’s interpretation of “kick-off” could perhaps be a far more liberal one than that attributed to him by Observer.
Observer thinks Guidi wants to incite Rangers fans to violence.
I disagree.
Having been on RTC and now TSFM for 18 months I would expect a contentious opinion to attract some thumbs down from those who disagree.
But I am genuinely astonished to be accused of being a troll after all this time.
What caps it off is the fact I am accused of being a troll for having the temerity to defend a Celtic man.
I believe the likes of Private Land and EasyJambo have been fearful that this site would become too much like a Celtic fan site.
I hope the fact I am being vilified for standing up for a Celtic man will ease their concerns.
Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:57
‘…Run up half way at full speed. Run back down…’
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The image instantly created in my mind is of Sean Connery in what I think was one of his best pictures- “The Hill”.
Which, I think, I may have mentioned before, long ago on the RTC blog. Worth another mention, though.
Been reading through the Lance Armstrong report, truly appalling litany of corruption. It sets the bar high for Nimmo Smith.
john clarke says:
Thursday, October 11, 2012 at 00:16
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Lord Wobbly says:
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 23:57
‘…Run up half way at full speed. Run back down…’
——
The image instantly created in my mind is of Sean Connery in
what I think was one of his best pictures- “The Hill”.
Which, I think, I may have mentioned before, long ago on the RTC blog. Worth another mention, though.
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Of course, Sean was only acting.
Rangers now then and forever:
Just thinking not even the Preservation team at Historic Scotland or the National Trust could save Rangers History, possibly a museum for the remnants. If Charles King had bought the Rangers could have been know as the Remnant Kings or Kings Remnants! it’s late I know:)
ordinaryfan says:
Thursday, October 11, 2012 at 00:04
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Just to say, I know where Islington is, just don’t know the Bar you were talking about!
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LOL!
And I know the Cock behind Euston station well: went down there on a final pilgrimage to watch our last ever Ibrox game v RFC ( and it WAS our last ever game v RFC at Ibrox) last March (the mad 3-2 one).
OT, I know, but IMO London Celts are a special breed.
Now – bring on the FTT Friday!
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, October 11, 2012 at 00:24
2 0 Rate This
Been reading through the Lance Armstrong report, truly appalling litany of corruption. It sets the bar high for Nimmo Smith.
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Yep.
2012 is going to go down as the year two sports cleared out the cellars.